WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.460 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.690 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.690 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.550 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.670 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:21.720 Let's get started. 00:00:23.327 --> 00:00:24.827 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Welcome back to The Chemical Show. 00:00:25.337 --> 00:00:30.197 Today I am speaking with Mitch Tome, who is the VP of Sustainability 00:00:30.197 --> 00:00:33.887 and responsible care at ACC, the American Chemistry Council. 00:00:34.247 --> 00:00:39.917 Mitch has a mix of public and private sector experience, um, across a 00:00:39.917 --> 00:00:43.697 variety of roles in sustainability and strategy, including with 00:00:43.697 --> 00:00:45.917 United Nations and with BASF. 00:00:45.997 --> 00:00:47.317 Before he joined a c. 00:00:47.317 --> 00:00:50.857 C in 2022, Mitch and I are gonna have a great conversation about the 00:00:50.857 --> 00:00:55.597 business case for sustainability, why sustainability still matters and more. 00:00:55.820 --> 00:00:57.260 Mitch, welcome to the Chemical Show. 00:00:57.744 --> 00:00:58.134 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Thank you. 00:00:58.134 --> 00:00:58.539 It's great to be here. 00:00:59.390 --> 00:01:00.230 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Great to have you. 00:01:00.530 --> 00:01:02.210 Let's start with your origin story. 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:07.940 What got you interested in sustainability and ultimately into chemicals? 00:01:09.144 --> 00:01:11.274 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Um, it's a, it's an interesting route. 00:01:11.304 --> 00:01:15.294 Um, and I, I started, uh, in kind of management consulting and on the 00:01:15.294 --> 00:01:19.464 business side, when looking at ways to eliminate waste and inefficiency 00:01:19.464 --> 00:01:22.994 in businesses, really looking at it just from the bottom line perspective, 00:01:22.994 --> 00:01:24.434 as you normally would in, in a. 00:01:25.129 --> 00:01:26.899 in a management consulting assignment. 00:01:27.189 --> 00:01:32.169 what I found was that the efficiencies gained by doing a, a better, a, a more 00:01:32.169 --> 00:01:35.949 efficient way of doing business had, uh, dividends that were non-financial. 00:01:35.979 --> 00:01:39.879 You know, and, and if a, if a company would show, so choose, they could market 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.999 their, their products by advertising some of these efficiencies that they 00:01:42.999 --> 00:01:47.409 gained, for example, and less using less water or, uh, producing less waste. 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:51.679 Almost as a, a kind of an add-on benefit, uh, to the, the kind of, the better. 00:01:51.744 --> 00:01:53.334 Financial return on the product. 00:01:53.714 --> 00:01:58.244 And so that was a, uh, a, a a great, uh, kind of field of, of innovation, 00:01:58.274 --> 00:02:02.534 uh, looking at ways to, to, you know, simply make businesses more efficient. 00:02:02.988 --> 00:02:07.608 When I, uh, saw that the United Nations, uh, was really, you know, taking a, a, 00:02:07.608 --> 00:02:11.538 a new new stake at, uh, looking at their own operations and the efficiencies there, 00:02:11.538 --> 00:02:15.368 I found that to be like an incredibly exciting challenge, the, the idealism 00:02:15.368 --> 00:02:18.908 in me about, you know, maybe using this, this kind of opportunity and my skills to. 00:02:19.268 --> 00:02:22.538 To, to, uh, better, uh, how the, the world tackles these things 00:02:22.538 --> 00:02:24.668 was a, an appealing, uh, idea. 00:02:24.668 --> 00:02:28.238 I spent 15 years at the UN in different capacities bringing that kind of 00:02:28.238 --> 00:02:33.318 mindset to, the sustainability and the environmental aspects and, and making 00:02:33.318 --> 00:02:37.158 sure that there was a grounding, uh, a bit in a business case, uh, for, 00:02:37.158 --> 00:02:38.418 for making, taking that forward. 00:02:38.448 --> 00:02:41.538 'cause what what we were determining at the UN at that time was, while 00:02:41.538 --> 00:02:44.798 this is a public sector, kind of agreement and the, the, the things that. 00:02:44.883 --> 00:02:49.353 Can, can happen, uh, with the kind of national agreements at the United Nations. 00:02:49.503 --> 00:02:51.363 The real work happens in the private sector. 00:02:51.363 --> 00:02:56.103 The real work happens in converting those aspirations into practicalities. 00:02:56.384 --> 00:02:56.864 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, 00:02:56.973 --> 00:02:58.653 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: I was very interested in how that, 00:02:58.713 --> 00:03:00.333 you know, kind of transition from 00:03:00.459 --> 00:03:00.579 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: I. 00:03:00.633 --> 00:03:02.913 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: aspiration to the reality works, 00:03:02.943 --> 00:03:06.033 uh, studied carefully what, uh, which, which industries were both. 00:03:06.038 --> 00:03:09.818 Most kind of integral to, to kind of managing these 00:03:09.818 --> 00:03:11.288 efficiencies and the chemistry. 00:03:11.498 --> 00:03:14.948 The business of chemistry seemed so important to every industry. 00:03:15.158 --> 00:03:18.608 It really caught my attention and I, I dove in full force. 00:03:18.878 --> 00:03:22.628 Uh, I did end up moving over to BASF, uh, looking at, uh, taking their. 00:03:22.873 --> 00:03:25.963 Their programs into North America, into a market-based system. 00:03:26.053 --> 00:03:28.393 Really exciting to, to learn the business. 00:03:28.483 --> 00:03:32.533 Uh, and I found my way here to ACC looking at not only the deep, uh, kind of 00:03:32.533 --> 00:03:36.043 understanding of the chemical business, but this larger picture of how do we, 00:03:36.133 --> 00:03:37.723 how do we play our role in society? 00:03:37.723 --> 00:03:39.463 What do we, how do we bring folks together? 00:03:40.183 --> 00:03:43.333 do we ensure that folks understand what we do and, and the value 00:03:43.333 --> 00:03:45.203 we bring, to this conversation? 00:03:45.203 --> 00:03:47.843 And, you know, and the, and the efforts and the actions we're taking, 00:03:48.083 --> 00:03:49.983 uh, to make, make positive change. 00:03:50.149 --> 00:03:50.779 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: That's great. 00:03:50.779 --> 00:03:51.319 I love that. 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:52.999 In fact, a couple things that stand out for me. 00:03:52.999 --> 00:03:55.789 Number one, you talk about efficiency and. 00:03:56.299 --> 00:04:02.059 I often say the chemical industry is inherently sustainable because we are 00:04:02.119 --> 00:04:07.489 always looking, not necessarily for sustainability in its truest sense, but 00:04:07.489 --> 00:04:10.039 inherently it's been about efficiencies. 00:04:10.279 --> 00:04:13.159 How do we take that waste stream and turn it into something better? 00:04:13.399 --> 00:04:15.409 How do we have less emissions? 00:04:15.409 --> 00:04:18.499 Because emissions are both, you know, bad from the environment, 00:04:18.499 --> 00:04:19.789 but also they're costly. 00:04:20.029 --> 00:04:22.309 So it's this whole aspect of. 00:04:22.924 --> 00:04:26.914 Building sustainability in because it makes good business sense and 00:04:26.914 --> 00:04:32.414 there's a good ROI, as opposed to it's just this targeted, uh, aspiration. 00:04:32.474 --> 00:04:32.744 Right. 00:04:32.744 --> 00:04:33.194 So it's 00:04:33.398 --> 00:04:33.578 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: That's 00:04:33.584 --> 00:04:36.649 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: kind of just worked work its way into, its our DNA. 00:04:37.089 --> 00:04:39.344 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: It, it is so hard to, in a market system, 00:04:39.344 --> 00:04:42.884 it, you know, you can't push a button and, and have all the actors in your 00:04:42.884 --> 00:04:44.744 economy, uh, act in a certain way. 00:04:44.744 --> 00:04:45.554 We wouldn't want that. 00:04:45.554 --> 00:04:49.004 That's, that's the, the joy of, of, of living in a, in a kind of a, an 00:04:49.345 --> 00:04:49.635 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:04:50.024 --> 00:04:50.924 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: uh, as we do. 00:04:51.254 --> 00:04:55.334 Uh, however, the downside of that is you can't program in societal change 00:04:55.384 --> 00:04:58.504 as you might through an authoritarian, uh, kind of, of centrally government. 00:04:58.659 --> 00:05:00.039 Managed, uh, regime. 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.259 But that's okay because it does happen. 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:06.309 And I think that the customers in this case are making their interests known. 00:05:06.369 --> 00:05:10.869 Uh, businesses are adapting to, appeal to these customers just as we always have. 00:05:10.869 --> 00:05:14.079 I mean, let's, let's remember this, this industry and our organization 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:18.279 is, uh, is over, uh, a century old, a century and a half, and, and we've seen 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:19.899 a lot of, a lot of societal change. 00:05:20.334 --> 00:05:23.324 And you know, as we know in this country, we come up with amazing 00:05:23.324 --> 00:05:27.374 innovations to get us through challenges, because we have this open invitation, 00:05:27.704 --> 00:05:29.114 uh, to join into the marketplace. 00:05:29.114 --> 00:05:29.744 And so I 00:05:29.795 --> 00:05:30.535 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:05:30.614 --> 00:05:32.204 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: really an important, uh, you know, 00:05:32.444 --> 00:05:36.884 consideration is that it's not just deciding that this is the direction we 00:05:36.914 --> 00:05:40.754 should go, but the incremental choices to satisfy customers along the way. 00:05:41.004 --> 00:05:43.584 And not, you know, and to maintain a sustainable business, which is 00:05:43.584 --> 00:05:47.584 one that can indeed offer a return and can keep itself in business, 00:05:48.125 --> 00:05:48.455 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:05:48.484 --> 00:05:49.144 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: for the long term. 00:05:49.325 --> 00:05:50.615 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, I mean, I, I think 00:05:50.615 --> 00:05:52.205 that's so, uh, important and I 00:05:52.281 --> 00:05:55.295 think as you're, as you point out, innovation comes through 00:05:55.385 --> 00:05:59.585 creativity as opposed to having too many boundary conditions. 00:05:59.615 --> 00:06:03.635 I mean, you still have to have boundary conditions, but, um, we probably wouldn't 00:06:03.635 --> 00:06:09.395 have some of the innovations we had have today had we been following a really set 00:06:09.725 --> 00:06:12.000 path, and structure that was required. 00:06:12.145 --> 00:06:12.475 So, 00:06:12.694 --> 00:06:12.784 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: I 00:06:12.835 --> 00:06:13.285 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: so, 00:06:13.324 --> 00:06:13.924 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: something you just 00:06:13.975 --> 00:06:14.545 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: yeah. 00:06:15.004 --> 00:06:15.874 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: of the industry and 00:06:15.925 --> 00:06:16.165 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:06:16.294 --> 00:06:17.074 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: we'll get to it again. 00:06:17.074 --> 00:06:20.964 But, you know, we, we have, um, data, through our Recon Responsible 00:06:20.964 --> 00:06:23.634 Care program that, that tracks the emissions of our members. 00:06:23.904 --> 00:06:26.874 That shows the emissions intensity has decreased. 00:06:27.824 --> 00:06:29.594 or so since, uh, 2017. 00:06:29.954 --> 00:06:32.114 Um, we can get the, the specific number. 00:06:32.114 --> 00:06:36.434 I, I, maybe Jenny has the, but you know, this shows that regardless of 00:06:36.434 --> 00:06:39.854 the external forces and, you know, the societal demands, this has been 00:06:39.854 --> 00:06:43.964 an effort to, uh, eliminate waste and, and kind of watch the bottom line. 00:06:44.084 --> 00:06:48.494 Uh, and we've seen that intensity of waste, uh, decrease because it's 00:06:48.494 --> 00:06:50.294 more efficient and more profitable. 00:06:50.394 --> 00:06:51.864 To have a lower waste system. 00:06:52.115 --> 00:06:52.565 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: absolutely. 00:06:52.614 --> 00:06:54.954 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: that we, we are, I think, optimally aligned 00:06:54.954 --> 00:06:57.434 with the society's, interests here. 00:06:57.524 --> 00:07:01.154 Uh, because it, you know what's, uh, a safe and sustainable 00:07:01.154 --> 00:07:02.744 facility is a profitable facility. 00:07:03.115 --> 00:07:03.715 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:07:03.745 --> 00:07:06.600 And I think what's interesting with that data that the decline, 00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:08.280 uh, in emissions since 2017. 00:07:09.190 --> 00:07:11.110 We've grown as an industry. 00:07:11.110 --> 00:07:15.010 Our output has grown, so our output has grown and our emissions have reduced, 00:07:15.155 --> 00:07:17.145 which is a win-win, win for everybody. 00:07:17.414 --> 00:07:18.589 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: It is hard sometimes with these 00:07:18.589 --> 00:07:22.069 big challenges that always seem intractable to, to recognize the, 00:07:22.159 --> 00:07:23.419 the, the progress we've made. 00:07:23.505 --> 00:07:23.795 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, 00:07:23.869 --> 00:07:25.159 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: I think it is important because 00:07:25.159 --> 00:07:28.729 so much work has gone into innovation and thinking of new ways 00:07:28.735 --> 00:07:28.975 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: I, yeah. 00:07:29.479 --> 00:07:30.469 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: uh, old problems. 00:07:30.659 --> 00:07:34.079 It never feels like it's enough, but I think we, we, we owe it to ourselves to, 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.739 to reflect on the positives that have, that have, uh, happened over the past. 00:07:38.099 --> 00:07:41.429 Uh, this, this, this has been an incredible, uh, period of innovation. 00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:41.810 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:42.440 Absolutely. 00:07:42.466 --> 00:07:45.616 So Mitch, I know one of the things we're talking about today is around 00:07:45.616 --> 00:07:47.536 the business case for sustainability. 00:07:47.836 --> 00:07:47.926 Mm-hmm. 00:07:48.166 --> 00:07:51.826 But what really makes a sustainable business? 00:07:52.816 --> 00:07:54.106 Well, great, great question. 00:07:54.106 --> 00:07:56.896 And this is probably true of anything within our industry or 00:07:56.896 --> 00:07:59.356 without, it's basically a, you know, a sustainable business is. 00:08:00.391 --> 00:08:04.141 A business that can operate, you know, profitably, efficiently, safely, 00:08:04.351 --> 00:08:06.091 and, and survive for the long term. 00:08:06.121 --> 00:08:06.421 You know? 00:08:06.421 --> 00:08:10.411 And so I think that regardless of, you know, the new kind of externalities and 00:08:10.411 --> 00:08:12.991 the new expectations of sustainability, I think it's important to remember 00:08:12.991 --> 00:08:16.201 that we've always had a, an issue of is it a sustainable business? 00:08:16.201 --> 00:08:18.721 When I was in business school, you know, you would be challenged to, 00:08:18.721 --> 00:08:21.211 to, okay, if you're gonna design a business, how can you make sure 00:08:21.211 --> 00:08:22.681 that it has its own internal? 00:08:22.696 --> 00:08:25.426 Profitability mechanism to, to stay in business and doesn't 00:08:25.426 --> 00:08:26.746 always require new capital. 00:08:27.286 --> 00:08:28.726 And so, you know, that's where we started. 00:08:28.816 --> 00:08:30.766 And I think that that's a sustainable business now. 00:08:31.396 --> 00:08:34.126 It does, you know, as I said, safely and efficiently. 00:08:34.156 --> 00:08:37.396 Well, this is where we bring in kind of society's interests in 00:08:37.396 --> 00:08:38.716 the sustainability of a business. 00:08:39.076 --> 00:08:42.136 But, you know, you, you do this by, you know, using your materials very 00:08:42.136 --> 00:08:47.326 efficiently by, by, you know, scrutinizing your waste streams and, and anything that 00:08:47.326 --> 00:08:49.426 might be producing slack in your company. 00:08:49.696 --> 00:08:50.116 And so. 00:08:50.331 --> 00:08:54.141 This is a, this is a perfect reminder of how important that is. 00:08:54.841 --> 00:08:59.701 In running a business now as we add on, you know, kind of environmental 00:08:59.701 --> 00:09:02.911 responsibility and so on, it has to be seen through that very same frame. 00:09:03.121 --> 00:09:07.591 So you have to, you have to find a way to add those benefits on to the 00:09:07.591 --> 00:09:09.296 core factor of having a business that. 00:09:09.796 --> 00:09:13.696 Is able to stay in business, able to maintain the jobs, able to maintain 00:09:13.696 --> 00:09:18.046 its, its tax, pa tax, uh, payments into the, into society and so on. 00:09:18.046 --> 00:09:21.676 So that's the first and foremost role and responsibility of a, of a business. 00:09:21.676 --> 00:09:21.736 Yeah. 00:09:21.766 --> 00:09:24.451 And a sustainable business is one that can maintain itself. 00:09:25.096 --> 00:09:25.846 Yeah, that's great. 00:09:25.846 --> 00:09:30.196 And in fact, uh, you know, there's so many companies across the chemical industry 00:09:30.526 --> 00:09:35.836 that have been in business for 75 years, a hundred years, a hundred plus years. 00:09:36.166 --> 00:09:37.996 That truly is the market sustainability. 00:09:37.996 --> 00:09:41.296 And you're doing it not just because of profitability, but it's also 00:09:41.626 --> 00:09:43.276 being a good corporate citizen. 00:09:43.306 --> 00:09:43.576 Right? 00:09:43.576 --> 00:09:46.816 This whole aspect of license to Operate, which ties in with a lot of 00:09:46.816 --> 00:09:50.866 things I know that a, c, C and its member companies work on in terms of. 00:09:51.201 --> 00:09:54.891 Safety and sustainability and emissions and responsible care, that 00:09:54.891 --> 00:09:59.091 it all becomes part and parcel of what becomes a sustainable business. 00:09:59.421 --> 00:09:59.841 That's right. 00:09:59.901 --> 00:10:02.331 You reduce waste, you pay less for disposal. 00:10:02.331 --> 00:10:06.051 I mean, it is very clear that there's an economic return to these, to these things. 00:10:06.051 --> 00:10:07.671 You know, if you can do your. 00:10:08.251 --> 00:10:09.451 Resource management. 00:10:09.451 --> 00:10:15.241 Well, you avoid legal risks and, you know, regulatory reputational risks and so on. 00:10:15.241 --> 00:10:19.771 And so that, that's, that's allowing you to, to kind of just maintain your role as 00:10:19.771 --> 00:10:21.691 a positive member of the, of the economy. 00:10:22.021 --> 00:10:24.001 Let's get back to basics here, but, you know, this is a, a 00:10:24.811 --> 00:10:26.311 big changes take a long time. 00:10:26.311 --> 00:10:28.081 We, we wanna make sure that we have responsible. 00:10:28.126 --> 00:10:29.356 Actors in the, in the mix. 00:10:29.356 --> 00:10:32.176 And as you said, our members have, you know, they, they've been in business 00:10:32.176 --> 00:10:34.846 for a long time, but I have to, I, I'll tell you, they have changed what 00:10:34.846 --> 00:10:37.966 they've made over that time to respond to society's demands, you know, and 00:10:37.966 --> 00:10:39.076 that's how they stay in business. 00:10:39.076 --> 00:10:41.176 And so, so you have to be ready for that. 00:10:41.176 --> 00:10:44.326 And, and we're seeing a, you know, kind of a, a very interesting, uh, 00:10:44.386 --> 00:10:46.636 set of new expectations and interests. 00:10:46.666 --> 00:10:50.536 Uh, but they only lay on top of a sustainable, uh, business model. 00:10:50.736 --> 00:10:51.306 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:10:51.516 --> 00:10:55.976 So let's talk a little bit about sustainability priorities, um, for ACC. 00:10:57.421 --> 00:11:01.111 How, you know, obviously you've got a lot of experience, Mitch, in 00:11:01.111 --> 00:11:05.851 figuring this stuff out on a global stage and then here on a US stage. 00:11:06.211 --> 00:11:09.031 But you know, when we look at it, what are the sustainability priorities for 00:11:09.741 --> 00:11:14.671 ACC, and then how do you align them or how do they align with the industry and 00:11:14.671 --> 00:11:16.471 with your member company priorities? 00:11:16.714 --> 00:11:17.134 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Sure. 00:11:17.134 --> 00:11:20.164 Well, it's, you know, I think our, our basic priorities 00:11:20.164 --> 00:11:21.484 are very human priorities. 00:11:21.484 --> 00:11:25.534 It's, you know, clean, water and air, you know, high quality, looking 00:11:25.534 --> 00:11:28.684 at, uh, circularity and reducing waste, as we've just talked about, 00:11:28.684 --> 00:11:29.764 that, you know, no one wants to. 00:11:30.574 --> 00:11:33.904 a big wasteful system, whether it's at their household or, or in a company. 00:11:34.244 --> 00:11:36.974 And of course looking at things like emissions, greenhouse gas, how can we 00:11:36.974 --> 00:11:42.524 reduce those, um, to the degree we, can Now, those priorities are not just for 00:11:42.524 --> 00:11:46.664 our own facilities, but we feel we have, uh, kind of a role to play as we have 00:11:46.724 --> 00:11:51.024 in society over, over time, to bring solutions to our customer industries 00:11:51.054 --> 00:11:52.734 so that they can further innovate. 00:11:53.527 --> 00:11:56.917 at the long stretch of history, you know, we've, we had a, a, a worry 00:11:56.917 --> 00:12:00.367 that we wouldn't have enough food to, to, to satisfy the human population. 00:12:00.367 --> 00:12:03.607 Well, amazing chemistry innovations came and nitrogen, 00:12:03.637 --> 00:12:05.047 uh, fertilizers were invented. 00:12:05.047 --> 00:12:08.867 And, and suddenly we now, can basically pull fertilizer from the air. 00:12:08.867 --> 00:12:12.887 These amazing, they, these, uh, these chemistry solutions that have come. 00:12:12.887 --> 00:12:14.007 And now we, we do have a. 00:12:14.782 --> 00:12:18.772 you know, the, a plan, uh, for, for, for serving humanity, um, you know, these 00:12:18.772 --> 00:12:23.392 medical devices, uh, dis distribution of, uh, immunizations or whatever kind 00:12:23.392 --> 00:12:27.502 of, uh, medical equipment you need, uh, the sanitation and the sanitary state 00:12:27.502 --> 00:12:31.042 of that can only be achieved through, uh, through careful use of chemistry. 00:12:31.402 --> 00:12:34.732 And, you know, these, these applications are just as important 00:12:34.732 --> 00:12:35.867 as what we do within our facilities. 00:12:36.605 --> 00:12:37.595 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, I like that. 00:12:37.625 --> 00:12:40.625 And in fact, sometimes I think emit, you and I both know, you know, when you. 00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:45.600 Get outside the industry and you're talking to people that aren't actively 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.510 engaged, that will sometimes, you know, throw down these statements of, oh, 00:12:48.510 --> 00:12:50.790 plastics are bad, or chemicals are bad. 00:12:50.790 --> 00:12:53.460 It's like, well, do you like washing your clothes? 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:54.750 Do you like having clean clothes? 00:12:54.990 --> 00:12:58.470 Do you like having appropriate sanitization of medical equipment? 00:12:58.710 --> 00:13:00.885 How about that fine little phone that you've got? 00:13:00.885 --> 00:13:01.165 That's. 00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:06.270 Made up of electrical components, but a whole lot of chemical 00:13:06.330 --> 00:13:10.560 components or chemically influenced components in manufacturing. 00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.390 And um, I think it's just a good reminder. 00:13:12.390 --> 00:13:15.210 I think you guys use the statistic, something like, what is it, 00:13:15.210 --> 00:13:19.530 98% of everything is touched by the business of chemistry. 00:13:19.530 --> 00:13:20.190 Is that right? 00:13:20.334 --> 00:13:22.884 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Yes, uh, it is and, and I, and I think it's, it's 00:13:22.884 --> 00:13:26.764 an important thing to recognize that, you know, we are an, an industry that, that. 00:13:27.670 --> 00:13:31.420 certain raw materials into useful other materials and, you know, that, that, 00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:33.220 that is the, uh, a critical point. 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:36.220 And that's, you know, when I, when I reflected on my, my career choice 00:13:36.220 --> 00:13:39.100 of moving into this industry, it was just that, just that thing. 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:43.210 'cause we were seeing amazing progress on how people would, compensate for their 00:13:43.210 --> 00:13:44.980 kind of the, the energy they were using. 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:48.610 They were getting, uh, you know, credits for, for using, uh, certain types 00:13:48.610 --> 00:13:50.410 of energy sources over, over others. 00:13:50.530 --> 00:13:52.600 But there was no discussion like that on materials. 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:54.970 Like how do you, how do you get credits and benefits for. 00:13:55.160 --> 00:13:58.370 For, for using a, a, a material that has a lower, uh, lower 00:13:58.460 --> 00:13:59.900 waste footprint or something. 00:14:00.170 --> 00:14:01.220 And so that's where we are now. 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:04.490 And we we're trying to find ways to, to securitize that and to show people 00:14:04.490 --> 00:14:07.830 that, hey, you can buy a product that has these ingredients in it , and it's up to 00:14:07.830 --> 00:14:09.570 you, the consumer to make that choice. 00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:12.150 There's no, no government telling you what to buy. 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:16.710 But, you know, we're seeing a a, a diversity of, of interests out in 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:18.270 the marketplace as we always have. 00:14:18.270 --> 00:14:20.820 And, and chemistry is able to satisfy all of them. 00:14:21.176 --> 00:14:22.046 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:22.196 --> 00:14:24.116 So I mean that, that ties into this. 00:14:24.701 --> 00:14:28.811 You know, I think about sustainability as a, as sustainability with a big 00:14:28.811 --> 00:14:32.891 S as I frame it, which seemed to really kind of reach peak hype, if 00:14:32.891 --> 00:14:37.391 you will, 20 20, 20 21, during the pandemic, I mean, where everybody's. 00:14:37.826 --> 00:14:41.876 Seemed to be focused on sustainability, greenhouse gas emissions. 00:14:41.876 --> 00:14:43.916 It became an everyday word. 00:14:44.266 --> 00:14:46.486 A lot of companies set aspirational goals. 00:14:46.486 --> 00:14:50.206 Of course, consumers say that they want sustainable products. 00:14:50.566 --> 00:14:53.656 They may not want to pay for sustainable products, which is its own dilemma. 00:14:53.916 --> 00:14:58.236 And yet today we're kind of in a different economic environment, a different set of, 00:14:58.476 --> 00:15:01.236 uh, governments across the world in place. 00:15:01.566 --> 00:15:04.806 Um, and some of that hype seems to have faded. 00:15:05.415 --> 00:15:06.765 Yet, it's still really important. 00:15:06.765 --> 00:15:09.765 So from your perspective, what is that shift? 00:15:09.765 --> 00:15:14.055 How do you see this evolution of sustainability from where we were, 00:15:14.055 --> 00:15:16.245 let's say 2020 to where we are today? 00:15:16.605 --> 00:15:18.795 2025, heading into 2026. 00:15:19.594 --> 00:15:20.404 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: That's a great question. 00:15:20.409 --> 00:15:21.454 I, I think about it a lot. 00:15:21.454 --> 00:15:24.724 I, you know, you look at history, you think of the, the, the Al Gore days. 00:15:24.724 --> 00:15:27.334 There seemed to be, you know, this, it almost a big movement 00:15:27.334 --> 00:15:28.264 that was about to start. 00:15:28.264 --> 00:15:31.424 And it, floundered because of, uh, economic and, and, uh, 00:15:31.454 --> 00:15:33.464 geopolitical con conditions as well. 00:15:33.824 --> 00:15:36.074 Uh, so this is not a new conversation, but I think what 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:36.490 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:15:37.154 --> 00:15:39.044 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: you know, and I reflect on my time at the, at 00:15:39.044 --> 00:15:44.064 the UN around this time, you know, we had the Pope in 2015 and, and Mark Zuckerberg, 00:15:44.304 --> 00:15:45.354 you know, everybody descending. 00:15:45.354 --> 00:15:48.954 It seemed like all of society was, was asking, uh, leaders to, 00:15:48.954 --> 00:15:50.394 to pay attention to these things. 00:15:50.394 --> 00:15:52.914 And, we'd kind of come through a lot of, uh, you know, the. 00:15:53.089 --> 00:15:55.309 The Cold War and the dividends and so on. 00:15:55.309 --> 00:15:58.189 Uh, you know, what do we do now that we've got this, you, this future together? 00:15:58.189 --> 00:16:02.119 And, um, looking at every country as, as having some work to do on, 00:16:02.162 --> 00:16:03.632 improving the lives of their citizens. 00:16:03.632 --> 00:16:06.302 And so there's a lot of, unstructured ambition out there. 00:16:06.542 --> 00:16:10.202 Uh, and it seemed to coalesce into this program of, you know, especially around 00:16:10.202 --> 00:16:13.772 the, the climate and these things that are everybody's job, but nobody's job. 00:16:13.772 --> 00:16:17.012 You know, everybody, everybody has a, a stake in it, but there's, there's never 00:16:17.012 --> 00:16:18.482 been kind of an agreement on how to. 00:16:18.867 --> 00:16:20.247 Manage these externalities. 00:16:20.443 --> 00:16:20.833 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Right. 00:16:21.087 --> 00:16:22.997 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: so I think there was, a very interesting 00:16:22.997 --> 00:16:24.587 conversation that, that occurred. 00:16:24.587 --> 00:16:28.457 And I think that the, you know, the costs to society and things 00:16:28.457 --> 00:16:31.337 became, you know, very important that we talk about the business case. 00:16:31.337 --> 00:16:34.787 You can't just suddenly flip a switch and, and, uh, convert all of the 00:16:34.787 --> 00:16:39.197 industry to a, to a new fuel source or a new, uh, you know, feedstock mix. 00:16:39.227 --> 00:16:42.307 Uh, you know, our, our members, when they invest in a big facility, they 00:16:42.307 --> 00:16:44.467 wanna see it work for 40, 50 years. 00:16:44.467 --> 00:16:48.624 And you know, they, they're, um, they make an investment upfront as, uh, 00:16:48.714 --> 00:16:51.834 in, in doing so every time they, they make one, they, they take advantage of 00:16:51.834 --> 00:16:56.784 the biggest new, uh, sustainability, uh, features and the if efficient 00:16:56.994 --> 00:16:58.254 heating and cooling and so on. 00:16:58.254 --> 00:16:59.634 So they always become more efficient. 00:16:59.684 --> 00:17:02.834 But I think that that's the, you know, kind of the, the, the progression. 00:17:02.834 --> 00:17:04.364 I don't know, did I, did I answer your 00:17:04.625 --> 00:17:04.915 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:17:04.964 --> 00:17:05.054 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Mm-hmm. 00:17:05.175 --> 00:17:05.835 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: No, that's good. 00:17:06.215 --> 00:17:09.193 So, you know, I think, I guess maybe the, the question then is. 00:17:09.750 --> 00:17:11.310 What's our current focus? 00:17:11.310 --> 00:17:14.430 When you, you know, as you interact with your, member companies, as you 00:17:14.430 --> 00:17:19.300 interact with, government agencies, et cetera, what's the current focus and 00:17:19.300 --> 00:17:22.210 conversation around sustainability? 00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:23.839 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Well, I, I think it's the 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:25.729 business case, uh, conversation. 00:17:25.729 --> 00:17:31.219 It's like the, you know, an efficient company, uh, a safe facility, uh, 00:17:31.219 --> 00:17:34.789 is more profitable and, and it's, you know, the primary driver of 00:17:35.209 --> 00:17:37.069 a, of a kind of a, a firm is to. 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.289 its customers and deliver economic value. 00:17:40.499 --> 00:17:44.639 Obviously the, you know, we as a market driven society have have looked to 00:17:44.639 --> 00:17:48.929 companies to do more than that, and, and everybody takes a role in, in pushing 00:17:48.929 --> 00:17:52.619 forward, societal changes in a, in a, in an open market system like this. 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:56.549 Nobody, as I said, nobody has one command and control over that. 00:17:56.889 --> 00:17:59.469 What's happening now is, is folks are looking at. 00:18:00.149 --> 00:18:03.059 affordability, you know, uh, looking at how can they make the most of 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:06.719 their asset base, how can they squeeze the most profitability out of it? 00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:10.439 And it turns out that many of them are saying, wow, if I make this system just 00:18:10.439 --> 00:18:12.119 a little bit more efficient, then it'll 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:12.510 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:13.709 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: you know, pennies on the ton 00:18:13.709 --> 00:18:15.869 and that grow, you know, and that really makes a difference. 00:18:16.139 --> 00:18:17.639 So, you know, ironically, we're back to. 00:18:18.379 --> 00:18:20.749 The basics we're back to basics of, you know, what does it mean 00:18:20.749 --> 00:18:22.189 to be a sustainable business? 00:18:22.239 --> 00:18:23.259 You can stay in business. 00:18:23.259 --> 00:18:26.559 And, and I think the, you know, not to oversimplify it, and I understand 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.899 that some of the societal expectations of change might be more aggressive and 00:18:30.899 --> 00:18:35.069 and dramatic than the business cycle, normal business cycle would allow, but 00:18:35.069 --> 00:18:36.509 I think we have to understand that we. 00:18:37.064 --> 00:18:40.214 We've built the, you know, this, the system, to allow us to have 00:18:40.214 --> 00:18:42.974 these freedoms and, and the flexibility in the marketplace. 00:18:42.974 --> 00:18:45.794 But we have to take that as, as an understanding of what 00:18:45.794 --> 00:18:46.994 the design constraints are. 00:18:47.190 --> 00:18:47.480 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:18:47.564 --> 00:18:49.424 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: the decision, as the conversation, 00:18:49.424 --> 00:18:53.564 you know, the high level conversation moves, moves on, the actions on 00:18:53.564 --> 00:18:54.764 the ground are still happening. 00:18:54.764 --> 00:18:55.094 I mean, we 00:18:55.215 --> 00:18:55.485 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:18:55.724 --> 00:18:57.109 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: who are, , there's a, a 00:18:57.204 --> 00:18:58.704 technology called carbon capture. 00:18:58.704 --> 00:18:59.994 You may have heard where you, you kind of. 00:19:00.089 --> 00:19:03.689 Plug up the smoke stack, if I can use a, a simple way of talking about it. 00:19:03.689 --> 00:19:07.739 And then you, you, you put that exhaust into a, into a container or you actually 00:19:07.739 --> 00:19:09.689 convert it into useful, uh, material. 00:19:09.689 --> 00:19:10.919 It's after all it is chemistry. 00:19:10.919 --> 00:19:15.929 And you know, we specialize in converting unusable chemistry into usable chemistry. 00:19:15.929 --> 00:19:19.469 And so we've had members take their exhaust and turn it into products. 00:19:19.649 --> 00:19:22.049 And so this is actually now happening and these are things that 00:19:22.049 --> 00:19:23.429 companies are doing not because. 00:19:23.884 --> 00:19:26.524 Some NGOs telling them that it's a good thing to do, but because 00:19:26.524 --> 00:19:29.314 they're building a new, uh, frame of their business through that, 00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:29.980 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:19:30.094 --> 00:19:32.314 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: also have many members who happen to 00:19:32.314 --> 00:19:34.324 have very efficient processes already. 00:19:34.544 --> 00:19:36.794 Instead of changing their processes, they're just talking about it more, 00:19:36.854 --> 00:19:39.134 you know, and so that they can talk about their efficiencies and 00:19:39.134 --> 00:19:40.707 their lower, footprints and so on. 00:19:41.127 --> 00:19:44.157 Uh, but simply because they've always done a good job of being an efficient company. 00:19:44.527 --> 00:19:46.627 So, you know, the, the conversation is different. 00:19:46.657 --> 00:19:48.817 Uh, there's a concept called the hype cycle, I don't know. 00:19:48.817 --> 00:19:52.472 And on technologies, usually they talk about, oh, a new ai, it's a, 00:19:52.717 --> 00:19:54.217 it's gonna gonna change everything. 00:19:54.217 --> 00:19:55.507 And there's a huge bubble of hype. 00:19:55.812 --> 00:19:57.072 Inevitably there's a crash. 00:19:57.072 --> 00:19:58.782 'cause it doesn't solve all those problems. 00:19:58.992 --> 00:20:03.282 But what you see on, if you look at hi historical, trends is that it does come 00:20:03.282 --> 00:20:06.312 back to about a half what they call a plateau of productivity, which is 00:20:06.312 --> 00:20:09.612 maybe not as high as the hype, but it's much higher than the starting point. 00:20:09.612 --> 00:20:12.732 And so I think what we've seen with sustainability is we've traveled 00:20:12.732 --> 00:20:17.237 through this exuberant, you know, kind of ambitious phase where everyone 00:20:17.243 --> 00:20:17.673 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:20:17.757 --> 00:20:18.882 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: looking to see how we could 00:20:19.062 --> 00:20:20.592 push it as far as we can. 00:20:20.747 --> 00:20:22.757 And now it's hitting a little bit of the reality check. 00:20:22.817 --> 00:20:26.027 Uh, but I think that the, you know, it's not that the program has failed, it's 00:20:26.027 --> 00:20:30.217 just that the ambition was a little bit too, uh, rapid, for the realities of, 00:20:30.247 --> 00:20:31.837 of how it meet needs to be implemented. 00:20:32.103 --> 00:20:33.098 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, I think that's right. 00:20:33.247 --> 00:20:35.017 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: the implementation is not always 00:20:35.017 --> 00:20:37.537 as breathtaking in its advances. 00:20:37.637 --> 00:20:41.567 Because it is a grind everyday decisions by people all over this 00:20:41.567 --> 00:20:45.887 country in our facilities, making small tweaks to the controls and, 00:20:45.887 --> 00:20:47.447 and, uh, changes to how they. 00:20:47.502 --> 00:20:51.477 Formulate, uh, all adding up, to a new, a new type of, of chemistry. 00:20:52.118 --> 00:20:52.958 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, I like that. 00:20:53.078 --> 00:20:56.168 And in fact, uh, your, your colleague, uh, Karen Knick. 00:20:56.918 --> 00:21:00.818 Hosted a panel at the Chemical Summit recently and about the 00:21:00.818 --> 00:21:02.198 business case of sustainability. 00:21:02.198 --> 00:21:05.638 And that was part of that conversation with, member companies 00:21:05.668 --> 00:21:09.028 around maybe moving past the hype. 00:21:09.058 --> 00:21:12.908 Um, and we've certainly seen recently several m. 00:21:13.032 --> 00:21:14.622 Big projects get delayed. 00:21:14.652 --> 00:21:19.062 Um, big project announcements that were considered green or, carbon 00:21:19.062 --> 00:21:21.522 neutral carbon reduction projects. 00:21:21.582 --> 00:21:25.392 And yet, what we're seeing is a lot more strategic discipline, right? 00:21:25.392 --> 00:21:29.922 So continuous improvement where there's a real business case and 00:21:29.922 --> 00:21:31.722 where action is really achievable. 00:21:31.992 --> 00:21:32.322 Right. 00:21:32.322 --> 00:21:37.222 So I think it's this, step by step improvements as opposed to, 00:21:37.402 --> 00:21:40.432 uh, you know, I love that phrase of the hype cycle that you talked 00:21:40.432 --> 00:21:41.482 about, because that, you're right. 00:21:41.482 --> 00:21:42.562 It, it exists everywhere. 00:21:42.562 --> 00:21:44.182 It's like, woo, we're gonna go change the world. 00:21:44.662 --> 00:21:48.232 Well, we are gonna change the world, but it's not gonna be a big bang. 00:21:48.232 --> 00:21:51.712 It's gonna be step by step in a pragmatic way. 00:21:52.321 --> 00:21:52.651 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: That's right. 00:21:52.651 --> 00:21:56.821 And I think, you know, it, it, we, we all, uh, see the data, we see the numbers, 00:21:56.821 --> 00:22:01.021 uh, the international organizations talk about which sectors are emitting, how 00:22:01.021 --> 00:22:04.861 much you know, of a percentage of the, you know, and our, our, our industry. 00:22:04.931 --> 00:22:07.061 You know, has a, a, a, a piece of that. 00:22:07.061 --> 00:22:10.661 I think it's something like 15% of the emissions, uh, is, is, but 00:22:10.661 --> 00:22:14.411 what I always focus on is that 85% that we sell into, you know, like 00:22:14.452 --> 00:22:14.742 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:22:14.801 --> 00:22:16.061 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: course we are, we're doing everything. 00:22:16.061 --> 00:22:17.291 We, we're reducing our emissions. 00:22:17.291 --> 00:22:19.181 We're, we're taking care of our 15%. 00:22:19.181 --> 00:22:22.701 We're doing what we, what we need to do there, as we can, 00:22:22.701 --> 00:22:23.811 as we grow more efficient. 00:22:24.201 --> 00:22:29.256 But I, I compel folks to, to consider, the huge upside in using these advances. 00:22:29.881 --> 00:22:33.441 To, you know, kind of reduce the emissions and, and make our, customers 00:22:33.441 --> 00:22:37.041 products more efficient as well by incorporating these efficient 00:22:37.041 --> 00:22:38.391 ingredients that we're producing. 00:22:38.802 --> 00:22:39.432 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:22:39.471 --> 00:22:41.061 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: that it's not just about us, you know, 00:22:41.061 --> 00:22:44.601 taking care of our own, which we do, and our responsible care data has shown. 00:22:44.916 --> 00:22:48.666 Transparently what we, our members have been able to do over the past decades. 00:22:48.843 --> 00:22:53.223 but it's also this, this impact, you know, invite us in, invite chemistry into your 00:22:53.223 --> 00:22:55.053 innovation and your product development. 00:22:55.053 --> 00:22:58.643 And we're seeing the, these new conversations between, customers and, 00:22:58.793 --> 00:23:01.023 and consumer goods and, packaged goods. 00:23:01.023 --> 00:23:03.748 Other things coming to the chemistry, uh, vendors thing. 00:23:04.198 --> 00:23:05.458 How can we do this in a different way? 00:23:05.458 --> 00:23:09.508 How can we change the this to to, to meet our, our new customer demands 00:23:09.899 --> 00:23:10.189 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:23:10.288 --> 00:23:12.208 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: by one, product by product, customer by 00:23:12.208 --> 00:23:14.368 customer, conversation, by conversation. 00:23:14.578 --> 00:23:15.658 The reality is changing. 00:23:15.718 --> 00:23:19.288 You know, there are new options, there are new, uh, abilities and, and the 00:23:19.408 --> 00:23:23.248 industries that support us, the power, uh, energy industry, others, they're, 00:23:23.248 --> 00:23:25.048 they're thinking in new ways as well. 00:23:25.048 --> 00:23:28.898 So we can do a lot ourselves, but we are rely on our suppliers, and our 00:23:28.898 --> 00:23:32.468 customers to, to kind of bring us along and, and we bring them along with us. 00:23:32.674 --> 00:23:33.514 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:33.514 --> 00:23:35.464 I think it's definitely a value chain, right? 00:23:35.464 --> 00:23:39.274 It's a value chain, uh, not just the chemical companies, but as you say, 00:23:39.544 --> 00:23:43.684 suppliers, customers, and then down to the consumers as well, right? 00:23:43.764 --> 00:23:48.324 I think, uh, even just my own consumer experience as a consumer, um, and 00:23:48.324 --> 00:23:52.014 having a household full of consumers, but, you know, every time I go to a 00:23:52.014 --> 00:23:56.664 industry conference and I learn something new about the way products are used, 00:23:56.994 --> 00:23:58.854 and how improvements are made. 00:23:58.854 --> 00:24:01.074 And it's like, oh, well that makes sense. 00:24:01.074 --> 00:24:01.314 Right? 00:24:01.314 --> 00:24:04.194 I mean, I, I joked earlier about like our phones, our iPhones, our 00:24:04.194 --> 00:24:05.544 androids, whatever people have. 00:24:05.934 --> 00:24:10.854 If you think about just how much technology is harnessed in those 00:24:10.854 --> 00:24:15.404 phones, and how the chemical industry and other industries have evolved and 00:24:15.434 --> 00:24:17.894 innovated to make these things work. 00:24:18.224 --> 00:24:18.674 Um. 00:24:18.993 --> 00:24:19.263 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Yeah. 00:24:19.473 --> 00:24:19.773 And it's 00:24:19.794 --> 00:24:23.034 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: EVs electric vehicles like require a whole new set 00:24:23.064 --> 00:24:28.074 of paints and coatings and wire coatings and things that you wouldn't think about. 00:24:28.074 --> 00:24:30.054 You're like, oh, we're just putting the parts together. 00:24:30.384 --> 00:24:33.624 No, you're putting the parts together to work in a better and different way. 00:24:33.978 --> 00:24:34.548 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: That's right. 00:24:34.608 --> 00:24:34.818 That's 00:24:34.819 --> 00:24:35.429 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: I, yeah. 00:24:35.478 --> 00:24:38.273 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: know, it is, a, it's a time of, uh, of. 00:24:38.618 --> 00:24:39.788 Dramatic change all 00:24:39.889 --> 00:24:40.179 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:24:40.478 --> 00:24:41.768 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: you know, and I think that, you know, we, 00:24:41.768 --> 00:24:45.008 we went there, there had been, you know, these, these economic concerns. 00:24:45.008 --> 00:24:46.628 Well, who's gonna pay for the climate change? 00:24:46.628 --> 00:24:51.568 How these products, I think pricing, has become such a, a dynamic concern. 00:24:51.628 --> 00:24:54.928 Uh, you know, in, even for class, if it's a classic or, or a legacy 00:24:54.928 --> 00:24:56.938 products and things, nobody really is. 00:24:56.953 --> 00:24:58.963 Certain where pricing is going on, anything. 00:24:58.963 --> 00:25:02.203 So it's a, it's not as easy as it was to kind of make the case 00:25:02.203 --> 00:25:03.733 for, for these new formulations. 00:25:03.883 --> 00:25:07.483 But at the same time, because everything is in flux, if you can show that, 00:25:07.483 --> 00:25:11.173 hey, you know, we're gonna do this new initiative, uh, it'll end up, you know, 00:25:11.173 --> 00:25:14.773 satisfying some of our customers who want sustainability, but we're actually gonna 00:25:14.773 --> 00:25:16.153 save a lot of money if we do it this way 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:17.789 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:17.833 --> 00:25:19.193 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: know, and, and our, you know, when we 00:25:19.193 --> 00:25:22.973 talk to customers and do surveys and things, people believe us more when 00:25:22.973 --> 00:25:25.373 we say, Hey, this is, you know, we're not doing this just 'cause it's good. 00:25:25.453 --> 00:25:26.263 Right thing to do. 00:25:26.263 --> 00:25:27.948 It's actually good for our business, you know, so 00:25:27.999 --> 00:25:28.689 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Right. 00:25:28.693 --> 00:25:30.163 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: you know, we can, we can make a case. 00:25:30.163 --> 00:25:32.503 So we talk to our investors and other things about this and that 00:25:32.508 --> 00:25:33.763 the, the member companies do. 00:25:33.849 --> 00:25:34.239 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:25:34.663 --> 00:25:36.343 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: you know, and it, it's, we, you 00:25:36.343 --> 00:25:37.543 have to find those opportunities. 00:25:37.543 --> 00:25:37.633 You 00:25:37.724 --> 00:25:37.844 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: I. 00:25:38.053 --> 00:25:40.903 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: navigate carefully through this complex environment 00:25:41.053 --> 00:25:44.713 and find those successes, uh, where, where the customers, uh, need the most. 00:25:45.324 --> 00:25:45.774 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:25:45.774 --> 00:25:48.444 It's all about product market fit, as they say. 00:25:48.534 --> 00:25:48.834 Yeah. 00:25:49.134 --> 00:25:53.884 So, clearly, uh, Mitch, one of the things that you've done throughout 00:25:53.884 --> 00:25:58.444 your career is really working with a wide variety of constituents, 00:25:58.504 --> 00:26:00.484 government, non-governmental. 00:26:00.784 --> 00:26:06.154 Um, I know that in the work that you do today, um, with ACC, this whole. 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:11.559 Area of alignment of interests, across member companies, across 00:26:12.639 --> 00:26:14.559 your, you know, the public sector. 00:26:15.489 --> 00:26:19.719 What have you found to be really critical in making that happen? 00:26:19.719 --> 00:26:23.499 Because I recognize, certainly for ACC, there's some of the biggest 00:26:23.499 --> 00:26:27.819 companies, fortune 50 companies, top biggest companies in the, in the world 00:26:28.029 --> 00:26:29.319 are part of the chemical industry. 00:26:30.049 --> 00:26:33.986 There's also a lot of small companies, mid-size, small companies So we've 00:26:33.986 --> 00:26:36.656 got, you know, we've got companies that have a variety of interests. 00:26:36.686 --> 00:26:43.676 How do you align those interests to get to a common platform standard and approach? 00:26:44.215 --> 00:26:47.155 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: our job is not to force alignment on our members. 00:26:47.155 --> 00:26:49.975 We, we have a, a very diverse, uh, industry. 00:26:50.005 --> 00:26:50.215 Uh, 00:26:50.216 --> 00:26:50.666 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:26:50.725 --> 00:26:52.425 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: we do, frankly, the, one of the 00:26:52.425 --> 00:26:55.845 biggest customer segments of our industry is our own industry. 00:26:55.845 --> 00:26:59.085 And so even those members that are small are, are interacting with our larger 00:26:59.085 --> 00:27:03.135 members and they all, you know, want to, you know, have the tide lift all boats, 00:27:03.415 --> 00:27:05.065 so that we can, um, you know, kind of. 00:27:05.215 --> 00:27:09.145 See progress, whether it's small or large, but again, it comes down to the customer. 00:27:09.145 --> 00:27:12.975 You know, every, business, large or small, their whole job is to create 00:27:12.975 --> 00:27:14.745 a customer and to satisfy a customer. 00:27:14.745 --> 00:27:18.255 And so they, they need to find what it will take to, to, 00:27:18.255 --> 00:27:19.335 uh, to satisfy the customer. 00:27:19.335 --> 00:27:23.535 Now, as I said, we, we've got some small companies that that just happened to. 00:27:24.055 --> 00:27:27.625 chemistry in a certain way that, uh, everyone wants to do because 00:27:27.625 --> 00:27:30.655 it's very efficient and they happen to have this, they didn't even know 00:27:30.655 --> 00:27:33.835 they had sustainability benefits to sell, and they get to decide whether 00:27:33.835 --> 00:27:35.215 they wanna market those or not. 00:27:35.575 --> 00:27:38.695 You know, using wood product, you know, all kinds of things that people, 00:27:38.695 --> 00:27:41.935 uh, talk about now and as wanting in their, in their chemistries and their 00:27:41.935 --> 00:27:43.375 products and, Hey, we already do that. 00:27:43.375 --> 00:27:44.095 Let's talk about it. 00:27:44.293 --> 00:27:46.283 The larger companies have, a lot at stake. 00:27:46.283 --> 00:27:49.523 They're, they're huge in operations, big crackers, big investments. 00:27:49.523 --> 00:27:53.543 Um, some of the other companies are, less of an asset base, but they are 00:27:53.543 --> 00:27:56.963 again, subject to the kind of the demands of those larger companies. 00:27:56.963 --> 00:27:57.863 So it's. 00:27:57.923 --> 00:28:03.133 E every company has its own, stakeholders, its own fiduciary responsibility to, its, 00:28:03.163 --> 00:28:07.363 its stakeholders and its shareholders to, to deliver on its own, uh, outcomes. 00:28:07.663 --> 00:28:12.693 Uh, but what we attempt to do at ACC to help all the members see the general 00:28:12.693 --> 00:28:15.033 directionality of where things are going. 00:28:15.093 --> 00:28:19.683 Um, and, you know, try to advocate for the interest as broadly as we 00:28:19.683 --> 00:28:22.623 can, uh, in, for example, third party. 00:28:22.953 --> 00:28:24.243 Standards development. 00:28:24.243 --> 00:28:27.183 You know, we're seeing things called the SBTI, Science-Based Targets 00:28:27.183 --> 00:28:30.393 Initiative and, and other things they're, they're attempting as, as well as they 00:28:30.393 --> 00:28:32.488 can to, to provide frameworks for. 00:28:33.138 --> 00:28:35.658 Uh, industries to report their emissions and so on. 00:28:35.898 --> 00:28:38.928 And, you know, it's our job to make sure that they're not making steps 00:28:38.928 --> 00:28:42.408 that would make it impossible for our, our smaller members to, to comply. 00:28:42.408 --> 00:28:46.608 But also that there isn't something that's just so unwieldy that rather large or 00:28:46.608 --> 00:28:48.638 smaller members wouldn't be satisfied. 00:28:48.729 --> 00:28:49.019 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:28:49.058 --> 00:28:50.948 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: again, I think what we, when we talk about going 00:28:50.948 --> 00:28:53.078 back to basics, looking at the long game. 00:28:53.453 --> 00:28:55.313 The business case for sustainability. 00:28:55.643 --> 00:28:58.943 We're not talking about taking, a totally different direction 00:28:58.943 --> 00:28:59.993 on what a company does. 00:28:59.993 --> 00:29:03.653 We're talking about using the core delivery of a, of a company, which 00:29:03.653 --> 00:29:07.613 is its products and its satisfied customers to add on, if possible, 00:29:07.853 --> 00:29:12.613 additional benefits to society simply by reducing the waste, of that process. 00:29:12.613 --> 00:29:14.893 And so I think that's a pretty straightforward way for us. 00:29:15.388 --> 00:29:18.208 Larger small companies to, to align to that. 00:29:18.478 --> 00:29:23.278 Uh, you know, there are that some are being asked to, to make, and, and that's 00:29:23.278 --> 00:29:26.638 at a company level if they wish to enter into those types of commitments. 00:29:26.638 --> 00:29:27.988 You know, that's a business strategy. 00:29:28.168 --> 00:29:31.078 We don't make that case for our members as ACC, that is 00:29:31.144 --> 00:29:31.474 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:29:31.738 --> 00:29:33.028 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: to commit our members to 00:29:33.298 --> 00:29:34.678 a specific path forward. 00:29:34.963 --> 00:29:38.683 We help them eliminate bottlenecks, find ways to make things more efficient. 00:29:38.923 --> 00:29:43.063 Uh, just as we suggest they, they are doing in their, in their own operations. 00:29:43.063 --> 00:29:45.103 We are helping to do in the public sector dialogue. 00:29:45.929 --> 00:29:46.229 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:29:46.349 --> 00:29:46.829 Love that. 00:29:46.919 --> 00:29:47.279 Love that. 00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.789 So I'm, I'm gonna ask this question and we can choose to keep it or not. 00:29:50.789 --> 00:29:54.719 So currently as we record this, we're, um, in a government 00:29:54.719 --> 00:29:57.059 shutdown, federal shutdown. 00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.749 How is that affecting the work that you are doing? 00:30:01.344 --> 00:30:06.444 With the government elsewhere, like it's for, for those of, how about this For 00:30:06.444 --> 00:30:11.574 me, I, I get my news from the Wall Street Journal and, and Chatter, so, uh, it's 00:30:11.574 --> 00:30:13.374 hard to see what's really happening. 00:30:13.374 --> 00:30:16.794 How does it affect an, an organization like a c, C and its members? 00:30:17.523 --> 00:30:19.083 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Well, we, you know, we'd like to see, 00:30:19.143 --> 00:30:22.143 the government operating well and our, you know, our members are waiting for 00:30:22.143 --> 00:30:26.223 permits, uh, you know, to, to build the next, locations for America's workforce. 00:30:26.223 --> 00:30:30.033 And, and those are in some cases stymied and, you know, so we, we hate to see that. 00:30:30.033 --> 00:30:32.533 And, we're hopeful that they can resolve these differences. 00:30:32.533 --> 00:30:33.128 I think that the bigger. 00:30:33.888 --> 00:30:36.648 Picture I'd like to leave though is this long, long-term thinking. 00:30:36.698 --> 00:30:39.548 We have a lot, uh, you know, the, from a multi-stakeholder approach, 00:30:39.548 --> 00:30:42.158 of course, the federal public sector is incredibly important. 00:30:42.158 --> 00:30:45.788 There's a, an enormous amount of value that comes from having a, a highly 00:30:45.788 --> 00:30:50.678 functioning system there for in innovation new chemistries, you know, allowing 00:30:50.678 --> 00:30:51.818 for permitting, you know, the things. 00:30:52.038 --> 00:30:55.618 That can only be done at the highest levels and, will unlock the, you know, the 00:30:55.618 --> 00:30:57.358 kind of economic potential of the country. 00:30:57.358 --> 00:31:00.268 So we need to, you know, get back to that and, and accelerate 00:31:00.268 --> 00:31:01.288 that and do anything we can. 00:31:01.468 --> 00:31:03.238 But you mentioned the multi-stakeholder approach. 00:31:03.238 --> 00:31:07.018 We've, we've got, you know, state, state officials, uh, municipal officials. 00:31:07.508 --> 00:31:11.978 Uh, non-governmental organizations, charities, religious groups, others, you 00:31:11.978 --> 00:31:15.668 know, the whole of society has an opinion on, on where these things should go. 00:31:15.908 --> 00:31:20.168 And government shutdowns don't, don't shut down those aspects of society. 00:31:20.168 --> 00:31:23.948 And so we owe it to our members, whether we're helping them advocate 00:31:23.948 --> 00:31:27.338 for their needs with the, with the federal government, or with any other. 00:31:27.638 --> 00:31:31.308 Uh, jurisdiction or kind of a group, that work continues. 00:31:31.398 --> 00:31:33.798 Um, so I, I think that's, that's really the answer. 00:31:33.798 --> 00:31:37.878 You know, we're, we're in a, we, we we're 150 year old, 160 year old organization. 00:31:38.178 --> 00:31:41.908 We are on a long trajectory to serve the long-term needs of this country. 00:31:42.178 --> 00:31:45.298 Uh, we, we see the, the, the value in a, in a highly 00:31:45.298 --> 00:31:46.648 functioning federal government. 00:31:46.648 --> 00:31:50.601 And, and we wish to, improve the efficiency in any way we can propose. 00:31:50.821 --> 00:31:52.771 But of course, that's the business of the American people. 00:31:53.432 --> 00:31:55.262 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, and I guess we're, we'll wait and see. 00:31:55.262 --> 00:31:58.142 Hopefully when this is published, things will be back to normal. 00:31:58.262 --> 00:32:00.092 Um, that's, I think everyone's wish. 00:32:00.191 --> 00:32:01.841 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: see if this, this question 00:32:02.051 --> 00:32:03.821 even adds to this, you know, 00:32:03.967 --> 00:32:04.457 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Exactly. 00:32:05.021 --> 00:32:06.071 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: I think we're, we don't have 00:32:06.071 --> 00:32:08.951 much, much to say about it and, and, uh, I would rather focus 00:32:09.057 --> 00:32:09.347 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:32:09.611 --> 00:32:11.411 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: the things we can, can have an impact on. 00:32:11.777 --> 00:32:12.227 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Fair enough. 00:32:12.347 --> 00:32:13.697 Fair enough, fair enough. 00:32:13.757 --> 00:32:16.007 Okay, so I've got two final questions for you. 00:32:16.007 --> 00:32:18.497 One I think we maybe have already addressed, but we'll, we'll ask it 00:32:18.497 --> 00:32:24.227 again, which is, you know, what's the biggest misperception that the 00:32:24.227 --> 00:32:27.437 public or regulators have about the chemical industry and how 00:32:27.437 --> 00:32:28.427 would you like to correct that? 00:32:29.023 --> 00:32:32.106 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: there are a lot of, oversimplifications, 00:32:32.166 --> 00:32:35.226 you know, about how things work in the world and, and you know, things. 00:32:35.961 --> 00:32:39.261 Fall into good and bad buckets, and we make, you know, we make these decisions. 00:32:39.261 --> 00:32:42.971 But I, I think it's important that,- that folks understand and reflect on, 00:32:43.031 --> 00:32:48.131 on, you know, how much of a different approach our industry is, is taken over 00:32:48.131 --> 00:32:52.488 the decades, you know, and, a kind, a real inward focus on, you know, what can we do 00:32:52.488 --> 00:32:55.378 to make sure that we're doing the right thing as an industry and sharing that. 00:32:55.708 --> 00:32:57.208 And that's our responsible care program. 00:32:57.208 --> 00:33:00.738 I think over the past decades, uh, really since the, you know, to turn to the. 00:33:01.228 --> 00:33:02.068 The century. 00:33:02.388 --> 00:33:06.188 We've been looking at, being transparent, you know, showing, you know, what we're, 00:33:06.398 --> 00:33:10.108 what we're up to, and, and you know, the kind of the, how we operate, how 00:33:10.108 --> 00:33:13.528 we improve year over year in the, in the things that, uh, folks are worried 00:33:13.528 --> 00:33:15.358 about and, uh, the emissions and so on. 00:33:15.748 --> 00:33:18.838 It's been instructive to, to, to show folks that, but there's 00:33:18.838 --> 00:33:20.998 always a, a, a challenge in, in. 00:33:21.263 --> 00:33:23.843 In talking to folks about things that they can't touch and feel and, 00:33:23.843 --> 00:33:26.963 and, and understand, uh, you know, the, the abstractions that we need. 00:33:27.230 --> 00:33:30.920 uh, the scientists of, of this country that this industry have done miracles in. 00:33:31.310 --> 00:33:35.600 Providing a, a gateway for, for the, the, kind of raw materials that this, this, 00:33:35.690 --> 00:33:41.270 this earth has provided us into these highly refined solutions for health and, 00:33:41.270 --> 00:33:43.760 and communications and, uh, wellbeing. 00:33:44.113 --> 00:33:47.683 In that process, we sometimes forget, how important the, the chemistry 00:33:47.683 --> 00:33:51.013 process is to, to, to having all those things as, as you mentioned. 00:33:51.253 --> 00:33:54.793 So I think it's, it's not a misconception as to that there's, 00:33:54.793 --> 00:33:58.033 there's some specific fact that there, that folks are, are getting wrong. 00:33:58.213 --> 00:34:01.693 It's just that how, how much progress we've made, how clean. 00:34:02.108 --> 00:34:05.858 Safe, you know, uh, these, these industries are the facilities. 00:34:05.858 --> 00:34:08.438 I think if you were to take folks through a chemical facility, they 00:34:08.438 --> 00:34:12.278 would be surprised to see the kind of the laboratory conditions and the, 00:34:12.278 --> 00:34:13.868 and the hygiene and the cleanliness. 00:34:13.868 --> 00:34:18.578 'cause they're maybe a con conception of some, something from the 1970s that they, 00:34:18.578 --> 00:34:20.258 they learned about in a, in a textbook. 00:34:20.498 --> 00:34:21.983 So, you know, we've come, we've come so far. 00:34:22.353 --> 00:34:25.533 As a, as a country, I look at every industry, how, how far we've progressed on 00:34:25.533 --> 00:34:28.143 safety and automobiles and, and elsewhere. 00:34:28.293 --> 00:34:32.253 This the very same progression, if not more so because we, we know how important 00:34:32.253 --> 00:34:34.113 it's in our industry has happened. 00:34:34.173 --> 00:34:37.543 And folks would be delighted to, to see, that they can be proud of their 00:34:37.543 --> 00:34:40.123 American chemical, uh, industry, uh, even 00:34:40.299 --> 00:34:40.589 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:34:40.693 --> 00:34:41.323 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: other countries. 00:34:41.323 --> 00:34:44.393 'cause we take, our role so seriously, we, we audit the, the 00:34:44.393 --> 00:34:45.593 data coming out of our members. 00:34:45.593 --> 00:34:48.113 We really wanna make sure that we're making that case very clearly. 00:34:48.318 --> 00:34:51.912 This country's a fantastic place to, do industry, to build and, make stuff. 00:34:51.912 --> 00:34:55.302 You know, the, the, the, our, our, we have great natural resources. 00:34:55.302 --> 00:34:58.452 The, the emissions just by building here are lower because of our, 00:34:58.572 --> 00:35:02.082 uh, our ability to, to use the, the natural gas and, and so on. 00:35:02.082 --> 00:35:03.777 So, you know, we're, we're bullish on it. 00:35:03.777 --> 00:35:06.582 I think that, you know, I, we, we, we need people to understand that. 00:35:06.917 --> 00:35:08.387 The, for the Great American Comeback. 00:35:08.387 --> 00:35:11.747 As, as, uh, Lee Zelin, uh, the administrator of the EPA says, we 00:35:11.747 --> 00:35:15.097 need to power that, by going through and, and actually building new things 00:35:15.097 --> 00:35:19.087 and, and building, uh, facilities and, and getting back into, uh, a spirit 00:35:19.087 --> 00:35:20.527 of being makers in this country. 00:35:20.527 --> 00:35:22.207 And we we're, we're fully supportive of that. 00:35:22.327 --> 00:35:26.257 And I hope that, uh, American citizens and and consumers understand how 00:35:26.377 --> 00:35:29.902 important that is to our, our national strength, and making sure that we can, 00:35:30.052 --> 00:35:33.382 we can deliver the solutions we need, to Americans at an affordable price. 00:35:33.778 --> 00:35:34.048 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:35:34.108 --> 00:35:34.618 Love that. 00:35:34.678 --> 00:35:38.358 I think, I think it's so true, and I think, this aspect of just how clean and 00:35:38.358 --> 00:35:41.898 safe and well run chemical facilities are. 00:35:41.958 --> 00:35:43.668 It, it's impressive, right? 00:35:43.668 --> 00:35:44.208 I mean, 00:35:44.457 --> 00:35:45.267 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: We're, we're very 00:35:45.378 --> 00:35:46.278 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: truly impressive. 00:35:46.377 --> 00:35:48.597 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: proud of the, the members' progress in these areas. 00:35:48.597 --> 00:35:48.687 Yeah. 00:35:48.768 --> 00:35:49.548 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah, absolutely. 00:35:49.728 --> 00:35:51.078 So, Mitch, final question for you. 00:35:51.078 --> 00:35:53.388 I always, I like to close with a leadership question. 00:35:53.388 --> 00:35:58.054 So, you've obviously had the chance to work with great leaders. 00:35:58.054 --> 00:36:00.094 You yourself are a great leader. 00:36:00.484 --> 00:36:02.974 If you were to give advice to somebody. 00:36:03.389 --> 00:36:07.619 Newly entering the industry, whether being entering the chemical industry or 00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:13.609 following a path like you've followed, perhaps working in, UN or the ACC or an 00:36:13.609 --> 00:36:20.619 agency that really has the opportunity to affect policies and practices more 00:36:20.799 --> 00:36:26.469 broadly, what advice would you give, what's critical to success in this space? 00:36:27.468 --> 00:36:29.598 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Well, I, you know, good question. 00:36:29.598 --> 00:36:33.138 Uh, I'd reflect on it a little bit, but I think the, you know, understanding the 00:36:33.138 --> 00:36:37.373 problem, you know, understanding what problem you, you see as most important. 00:36:38.063 --> 00:36:42.203 And, and seeing a route for yourself to help solve it, you know, and, and 00:36:42.203 --> 00:36:45.443 really being clear about what the problem is, you know, and I think 00:36:45.443 --> 00:36:48.743 that this is, but you know, it ties back to what it's sustainability, this 00:36:48.743 --> 00:36:52.733 confusing language and people, you know, being able to debate it endlessly. 00:36:53.513 --> 00:36:55.403 not, you don't, you can't take action on that. 00:36:55.403 --> 00:36:58.403 You know, like I what we, when we speak to people coming into the 00:36:58.403 --> 00:36:59.908 workforce, they're like, I want to. 00:37:00.518 --> 00:37:02.588 Change the filtering of our air filtration. 00:37:02.588 --> 00:37:05.528 'cause we know we can eliminate this thing if we do it just right. 00:37:05.648 --> 00:37:07.628 And they don't talk about, I wanna do sustainability. 00:37:07.868 --> 00:37:10.868 They talk about, you know, filtration that they learned about in their 00:37:10.868 --> 00:37:13.508 master's program and that they, if they did it, they could change the game. 00:37:13.724 --> 00:37:14.014 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:37:14.018 --> 00:37:15.728 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: we're looking at very detailed kind 00:37:15.728 --> 00:37:17.678 of things and not this kind of larger. 00:37:18.038 --> 00:37:18.578 Debate. 00:37:18.638 --> 00:37:21.398 And so I would say don't be, don't be scared by the, the 00:37:21.398 --> 00:37:22.748 debate about the language. 00:37:22.748 --> 00:37:26.978 There's anytime society changes and new factors become important 00:37:26.978 --> 00:37:29.978 and new performance criteria become, uh, part of the mix. 00:37:30.288 --> 00:37:33.168 There's a, as a uncertainty about how to approach that. 00:37:33.498 --> 00:37:36.558 Uh, but I, I would say, you know, focus on something that you really feel. 00:37:37.373 --> 00:37:41.573 Passionate about that, you know, what the problem is and you know how and where to 00:37:41.573 --> 00:37:44.543 solve it or where, where to contribute, you know, 'cause, and, and that's, 00:37:44.783 --> 00:37:48.083 as I was attracted to this industry, it was only because I, every time I 00:37:48.083 --> 00:37:52.073 looked at what could an industry do to decarbonize, whether it's automobiles 00:37:52.073 --> 00:37:56.933 or, or consumer goods or, or it always came back to, well, if the, if the 00:37:57.173 --> 00:38:00.983 chemistry was, you know, set up, that's a, such a huge part of the footprint. 00:38:01.163 --> 00:38:04.733 And so it, it was very clear that if I wanted to have, uh, an impact. 00:38:04.933 --> 00:38:08.833 You know, and, and use this, this kind of unique multi-stakeholder ability to 00:38:08.833 --> 00:38:11.213 bring, bring together, uh, the solutions. 00:38:11.213 --> 00:38:13.583 The, the best place to do that would be in the chemistry industry because 00:38:13.583 --> 00:38:18.083 it, it is, you know, it's full of incredibly smart people solving the 00:38:18.083 --> 00:38:19.793 biggest problems of our society. 00:38:20.138 --> 00:38:24.668 Kind of without any, any, uh, fanfare or, uh, in some cases they have to 00:38:24.668 --> 00:38:28.118 explain away why they're, why they're solving society's problems because 00:38:28.118 --> 00:38:31.298 folks are, are sometimes unclear as to why we need these, these chemicals, 00:38:31.359 --> 00:38:31.649 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Yeah. 00:38:31.778 --> 00:38:34.548 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: it, it is, uh, it's a job of, of, you know, 00:38:34.578 --> 00:38:38.238 making sure that you as an individual understand what you're trying to solve. 00:38:38.528 --> 00:38:42.308 If you can show progress against a problem, um, nobody can challenge 00:38:42.308 --> 00:38:43.493 you as to what language you're using. 00:38:44.279 --> 00:38:44.729 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Love it. 00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:45.629 Great. 00:38:46.109 --> 00:38:48.359 Well, this has been a great conversation, Mitch. 00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:50.894 Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me today. 00:38:51.338 --> 00:38:52.238 mitch-toomey_1_10-08-2025_110825: Yeah, it's been great. 00:38:52.238 --> 00:38:52.928 I really appreciate it. 00:38:52.928 --> 00:38:53.078 Good 00:38:53.339 --> 00:38:54.089 victoria_1_10-08-2025_100825: Absolutely. 00:38:54.089 --> 00:38:56.009 And thank you everyone for listening today. 00:38:56.009 --> 00:38:58.439 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:38:58.439 --> 00:39:00.144 talk with you again soon. 00:39:01.249 --> 00:39:03.439 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:39:03.799 --> 00:39:08.299 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:39:08.539 --> 00:39:11.929 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:39:12.949 --> 00:39:16.249 For more insights, visit the Chemical show.com 00:39:16.699 --> 00:39:18.204 and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:39:18.979 --> 00:39:22.939 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:39:22.939 --> 00:39:25.099 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:39:25.279 --> 00:39:28.459 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:39:28.759 --> 00:39:30.529 shaping the future of the industry. 00:39:30.919 --> 00:39:31.639 We'll see you soon.