Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership podcast, where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. Welcome everyone to the Love, Sex, and Leadership podcast. I'm very excited for today's guest. She's a A dear friend, we teach together. She's been in this world of shamanism, mystical awakening, as a midwife for many, many years, and such an amazing spirit with a plethora of knowledge, a, a, a heart that really cares genuinely about the people that she serves, and it's a joy to teach alongside her and just to bring. To bring this conversation and and the essence of what her life really I feel like has been dedicated to into a way and to really have a deeper conversation. So welcoming Crystal Than Morris to the show. Welcome. Thank you, Erin. It's a joy to be here. I'm looking forward to it. And so, yeah, I'd love to just get diving in and started and, you know, maybe just share a little bit about journey, especially kind of going from the, the world of, you know, you're I know you were a midwife for many years and delivering hundreds of babies and, and I'd love to hear almost how some of that journey as a midwife connected you into the world of shamanism and where you feel like you've been a, a bridge between worlds. So that's really what I look at as a shamanism is that they're a bridge between worlds. So you were literally the first one. Supporting births coming into this world. Well, I would say, um, yeah, that's a beautiful question. And it's very interesting because I, uh, yeah, it really kind of starts at the beginning of my, I would say, deep spiritual journey at 16, I had a like radical, like somatic kind of experience where I went into a, you know, bliss state, a oneness state like for a week. Um. And, uh, you know, I think by day 4, I was kind of like, OK, I guess I'm just gonna be in bliss for the rest of my life. I mean, I was 16. Um, and then on day, morning of day 8, you know, I was just back in sort of the normal state of consciousness, kind of mystified, like, how could I have just recognized everything as another myself sort of thing. Um, and I was living in Los Angeles at the time, so I was hitchhiking around Los Angeles, trying to go to place uglier and uglier places to see if I could still be that blissed out. And I was. And then suddenly it was gone. And so after a couple weeks of grieving over that, not quite understanding how that happened. I, uh, was praying and asking like for guidance, and, and the guidance I got was, go find a man and have a, have children. Which wasn't at all what I was expecting. I thought like go to India, study yoga or, you know, I don't hitchhike around the US or climb the hike the Himalayas, something, something, I don't know, um, not, not find a man on children. But anyway, I followed that guidance and by the time I was 17, I had a child, so I'm I was on it. And in that experience of being pregnant, giving birth, and, you know, take, you know, breastfeeding, caring for a new a newborn, I mean, I really, um, I got this taste of some somewhat of that taste that I had in that awakening experience of like Like I have a human being growing inside my body, you know, and like, you know, like I'm the goddess. And of course in 19, this is in 1972 when my son was born. In fact, his, his uh birthday was just a few days ago. Um, I, you know, I, there were some people talking like that. People weren't saying, you know, you're the goddess. So having that experience of the sacredness of that, but also meeting a lot of women when I was pregnant, cause my husband and I did a cross country trip. We weren't married yet, but anyway, we did a cross country trip while I was pregnant. And I just met a lot of women who had a lot of fear around pregnancy and birth. And so I, that sort of planted a seed in me that somehow I wanted them to help women at some point know that they were the goddess. And, um, and then when my younger son, uh, he was, he was born in my, in my grandfather's house across the street from the house where my mom was born, um, when he started kindergarten, I start, I decided I was gonna become a midwife. So I wanted to be legal, so I became a nurse first, so I could become a certified nurse midwife, which was then legal in California where I was living. And um and so, you know, like looking back at it now, what I would say is that I was literally praying at the temple door of the goddess, you know, at the, you know, like sitting in front of the, the Yoni every day with many, many yonis, and actually I've been at almost 2000 births. So I did, you know, that was for like 25 years I was working in in um women's health and Um, literally at the, at the opening of the uni. Um, and such a blessing to, to have all those babies come into my hands. And, and also with each one, I saw each one as the divine child, you know, as I saw my own children when they were born, but also the recognition that every one of us when we're born, we're all the divine child. So there was also that, I think that was very much part of my own spiritual journey. And also seeing all the practical sides of it, the fears and the dynamics within relationships and families and all those things that you see, um. And then the, you know, kind of along this thing about how I got into shamanism from that was when I went to midwifery school. So I was, um, that was in 1987. Uh, I was, I went to San Francisco and I studied at San Francisco General through UCSF. And, um, and I, my husband and I ended up deciding to split up our relationship shortly after I went to midwifery school. And I was in my first new lover relationship after leaving my marriage. And we were having recreational sex, and, um, and I had this incredible Kundalini awakening, which I luckily had some, uh, my my mother had had a partner who had gone to India. He was a psychiatrist at the time. And had was studying Kundalini awakening and seeing how it was being misdiagnosed in the US because people didn't have an understanding about spiritual awakening, and they were telling people they were psychotic when they were literally having Kundalini experiences. So he wrote a book called The Kundalini Experience. His name was Lisa Nella. Uh, and I read the rough draft of that when I was 19. So I knew a little bit about Kundalini and a little bit that it has something to do with Tantra. So when I had this incredible Kundalini awakening. Um, I was like, OK, I have to find out more about that. And this was in the early 1988. And there wasn't really much out there, uh, in, you know, modern, in like in the western culture, but in '89, uh Margoon spoke um Came out and, and also the uh Charles and Caroline Meares's books came out around neotantra. So I started looking at those and um reading those and just trying to understand more about what had happened and what was goinglini, and what did that all mean. But I really quickly recognized that I had a lot of um That I need to do to a lot of healing before I was ready to kind of go on the neoant path because I felt like I had too much sexuality and boundaries. And I knew I, I mean, also, there was, this is right when codependence was being, uh, recognized as an addiction. And I was like, Oh, I thought I didn't have any addictions. That's my addiction. So I recognized, I needed to do some healing. Like, I was like, I am not ready to be in this. Kind of world, uh, yeah. So, for me, um, somehow I got directed into the shamanism. And I moved to Sonoma County, uh, shortly after that. And this was right kind of in the beginning of the whole circles movement, medicine circles, and I met a nur one of the nurses I worked with at the hospital where I was a nurse midwife, um, You know, reached out to me. And it was the beginning of the first Gulf War, and there was a big rally that was put on by some, um, women who had a medicine group, a shamanic circle, um, women's circle. And so I went to that, and then I started my own shamanic drumming circle called the Wolf Lodge. And this is back in 1992. So this is the beginning of the first Gulf War. And, and so that kind of launched me into the world of shamanism, which I was still trying to, you know, basically understand what it all was. And, um, but then I, I ended up studying with Michael Horner. I stayed with Michael Horner for 10 years, Foundation of Shamanic Studies. I got involved with a a woman who had studied with Angelaarian, and I did 4 years with her, a women's group in Sonoma County. Ellen Fishburne was her name. And so basically, you know, shamanism then became my main spiritual path for 15 years. I was deep, deep, deep into the shamanic realms and studying with Lakota, the Lakota tradition, uh, Sami tradition, um, uh, Michael Harner's work, which was, um, a kind of core shamanism, which was kind of taking out the cultural thing from, you know, native traditions and how to just do the practices. So I ended up becoming a shamanic practitioner and seeing clients, you know, on the side from my midwifery work. Um, but, and again, I'd say I needed that 15 years of doing that deep inner healing work for myself. I also did therapy earlier on in that 1st 5 years, uh, uh. You know, healing some stuff from my marriage and things. So I think it's important to do that deep inner work. Um, and the for me, shamanism was really great. I, I, my, my mom was a hypnotherapist back when that was radical for a, she was a clinical psychologist. Um, so I had been trained to be in altered states of consciousness since I was a young child. So it felt very natural for me to go in and out of these shamanic realms. Um, in those days, um, Michael Horner's methodology was using a drum or a rattle. Uh, he, he didn't think Westerners should be using medicines, which should become super popular now. So, um, it was really about also about how to be a disciplined practitioner and how to, and, and his definition of a shaman was somebody, not that you call yourself a shaman, but as a shamanic practitioner, you're there in service to the healing of others, right? to your community. So that was really a huge part of my work. And as a midwife, I think that's also part of your role. You know, midwives tend to become kind of catalysts in the community and, um, helping people to recognize how to be more aligned. I'd say like with their true nature from more of a spiritual perspective. Um, yeah, I love this. I can, I can feel the, the, the depth of experience and, and knowledge and what life has kind of brought forth for you. Uh, I, you know, I guess the question I have and your, your thoughts on this is, you know, women giving birth today who maybe haven't had, you know, altered conscious experiences or haven't studied in the shamanism and they're just simply going through the process of giving birth. Do you think that in of itself, like opens them into like deeper realms of exploration? Cause I don't see all mothers really having that kind of code, but you feel like the process itself? It's definitely a doorway, you know, like you're opening yourself to a doorway for spirit to move through you when you, when you're pregnant, you know, starts with conception, right, and pregnancy and And I can't, you know, it's, it's a bit hard for me to say what women's experiences today cause I haven't really been in it for, you know, like 18 years. Um, as far as, you know, practicing as a midwife. But I, for sure, I believe that pregnancy and birthing, and even, even lactating, you know, when you're so connected to your child, but even parenting, there's a way that it, it, it's, it opens doorways, right? So cause you in when you have a child, you also end up It brings up stuff about your own childhood, right? Your own, um, you know, it triggers things in you that suddenly you're, uh, like there's a mirror shining on you, like, oh yeah, I remember, you know, how this was for me and how I want to do it differently or better, or I want to do it more like this. And um, so definitely it's a doorway now. The part of the reason I'm not practicing as a midwife anymore was because I really felt like it was becoming more and more difficult to practice midwifery in the in the healthcare system, and I was working I was working at Kaiser. Hospital, um, you know, the HMO. And, um, and also they were making, you know, it's home births become harder and harder, um, and over the past 20 years. So I had done home birth early on in my career, but I was, it's also, it's, it's hard to do that in this, uh, modern era, you know, if you don't want just your whole life, you know, taking over. Um, so I, um, I'm not really sure exactly what women are experiencing in these days, but I know it's gotten harder. I have uh some midwife friends who are still doing home birth and say it's getting harder and you know, the government's making it harder, the healthcare system, the insurance, all of that. And I think for women, it's about trusting their bodies. And to me, that's one of the biggest things. It's like when you trust that your body knows how to give birth and you feel you're surrounded by women, particularly who say, hey, you know, you can do this, and your body knows how to do this, then I think it's much easier. Um, and I think it's harder as you, the more we're in our heads and out of, you know, not so connected to our bodies, I think the harder it is for women to surrender in that way, cause it is a surrendering process. Just like spiritual awakening in many ways is a surrendering process. And um the more people are trying to control, and that's what I was seeing when I ended up deciding to leave, um. Was that I just feel like it was all about women were wanting to schedule their inductions or they were wanting to demand C-sections, you know, because they didn't want to have their yoni stretched out cause the men wouldn't find them attractive or something, you know, like all kinds of crazy stuff was happening that I was just like, this is not, this is not OK. And, um, And you know, and it's, it's, it's um. Yeah, I mean, it takes a certain level of connection to your beingness and your divinity as a uh a creative, a creatrix, so to speak, that I don't think is so much in the culture now. Like when I became a midwife in the 80s, um or when I became a nurse in the 80s in 1984. Um, you know, there was a whole movement for natural childbirth and home birth and birthing centers and having drug-free births, and I, I think that's not so popular nowadays. Um, I think people are more into wanting to schedule things and, and I'm so I can't say what it is now. But birthing itself is a sacred experience, no matter what happens. And it's, it's a poor way to that kind of a connection. Um, but it's also about how much do you feel supported. And I think one of the challenges in these days is that people tend to be more mobile. They're not so much connected in community, even like they were 2030, 40 years ago. Um, and I think women need that. Women need that sense of community and support, and they need to get that positive reinforcement. And so many, I mean, most women work nowadays, you know, that wasn't true when I was growing up. Um, even though my mom worked, um, it was not, you know, it was more common for women to be home and connected with other women in ways that I don't know that they are as much, although, you know, there's also the, there are women groups still going on and there are movements in that, which I think are important. Yeah, and, and, you know, one of the things I heard you share, I love this term, it's like these different experiences open the the doorway into mystical awakening experiences and, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on where, especially in the realms of leadership, it's something I talk a lot about on this podcast around. How we show up as leaders in these different realms of, of, of our soul work in the world. And I feel from what I've heard you share is that there's a few moments for you where the, the, the doorway was opened and, and as the, the natural soul inside of you, you took that kind of leadership route. Maybe it was creating something new or listening to something that was beyond what The, the logic reason and understanding was creating. So I'd love to hear some of your take of where Leadership weaves into the more mystical awakening. Yeah, yeah, and I think that that is like that's definitely been my experience that um I feel like my whole life has been guided by spirit or what, you know, consciousness, whatever you wanna call it, um. And like, I had when uh right around 9 at least after 9/11, I did, I did a vision quest, which I had been guided to do through a shamanic journey from these ancient grandmothers. And in that, it was a very specific kind of vision quest where I was inside a sweat lodge and, you know, in the dark, basically, you're in the dark for three days, no food, no water, just in the dark sitting there. It's not the the sweat's not going on, you're just sitting in there in the dark. And, um, and in that experience, I was told that this was the end of my red rose path, that I wasn't gonna be doing this. I had, I mean, this had been my whole life for 15 years, you know. And they was like, No, you're gonna be doing this other thing, and it's gonna be this and this and this. And I was like, what are they talking about? I have no idea what they're talking about. And what's being guided. And it didn't make any sense. And, uh, and then a year later, after that experience, you do a kind of a gratitude, sweat for the community that you pick, you know, you, you cover all the Cost of everything for everybody, and I did that and then and then about a year later I was guided to take my first time to work weekend workshop. And then I was, as soon as I did that, I was like, Oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. This thing called Tantra. Oh, right, this goes back to 15 years before when I had this Kundalini awakening. Now I'm ready. And it felt like a big step. Like this was stepping from something, even though, you know, there's, there's a shamanic element to tantra as well, of course. Um, and so there was that step. And that took me in a whole direction. And then when I, um, I came here to Sedona, actually, my, um, oldest granddaughter, I was in, I delivered all my three oldest grandkids were born at home and I delivered on them. And after her birth, I came to Sedona cause I had a dear shamanic friend who had just bought a house here and moved here, and he was an exorcist, actually. And I came up here to visit him. And on my way here, you know, like as I came down the I-17 into Cam Verde, like God spoke to me in a way that I've had a lot of messages, but this is almost like a booming voice out of the roof of my car, which was very unusual. Like, I don't normally have those kind of experiences quite like, I was kind of like, did my kids rig something up to like spoof me? Uh, because it was so weird. Who is that? What's going on here? Yeah, exactly. But it was like God spoke and said, you're moving to Sedona, kind of like out of a moving kind of almost. And I was like, no, no, no way this is happening. But somehow within I think 6 or 7 months later, I was literally had moved to Sedona. Like I quit my job, sold my house, bought a house here, then I like arrived kind of like, what am I doing in Sedona? And then very quickly I, Margo on who I hadn't done a teacher's training for 4 years, and we decided to start her teacher's training. I started that. I started teaching Tantra here in Sedona, which was kind of radical at that time. It's not so, I don't think it's so radical at this point, but at that time it was Sedona was spiritual but very like new agey upper chakra, you know, definitely nothing to do with money, sex, or power. You know, um, and so I was doing that. And then, um, basically because of Margo. Margo said she thought I should talk at a sex conference. And I said, Mario, I'm a midwife. I could talk at a midwife conference. I could talk at a shamanic conference, maybe. But a sex conference? I don't think so. And that's how I ended up meeting Babadez, who's the, you know, the founder of ISA. And then that took me on a whole another, you know, Turn that brought me kind of where I am today. Um, and I was, you know, I was working, doing, you know, sexual healing work and his temple at that time, did that for a few years, uh, and eventually started teaching, um, this does. And so I feel like I, this kind of quality of leadership is something that it's not so much that I, Crystal Donna said I'm gonna be a leader. It's more like I, Crystal Don have been. Kind of shown like, this is your next step. And then somehow, I've kind of ended up in kind of, um, leadership roles, although I don't even know if I kind of act, I mean, I realize it now, um, but at the time, it didn't, it just feel like that was just sort of the next step. And I was just naturally good at kind of organizing people and things. Um, and this, but recently, I've been on this is the council for the last couple of years, and I realized, um, kind of 6 months into that, that I've avoided executive positions because I don't like the projections that happen when you're kind of in a power role, dynamic role. So I've always kind of tried to place. You know, not make not look too much like a leader. Like, I'm just one of you guys. I just have to be better at organizing things. Um, so I've had, you know, I've really been confronted more and more, I would say with this sense of what it is when you step into a leadership role, when other people really see you in that way, cause I, I think it does, you know, this the dynamics around power. Um, I'm like I'm really deep into that kind of inquiry and how one of the things we talk about in our trainings is around how to become more of a sovereign being, and then and sovereignty is really a deep spiritual practice, like, it's this recognition. Um, from a non-dual shivatantra, um, perspective, it's the recognition that you are literally the creator, maintainer, and dissolver of every moment of your experience, not you, the personality, but you, the divine, appearing as this seeming personality. And, and so that's like super advanced practiced, um, and when you're in a particularly when people are feeling hurt, victimized, wounded, you know, um. Not in their power, they they they can't comprehend that. So it's like how to support people to become more like I would say this is my passion now as a leader. How can I support people to wake up and know their own divinity and step more into that sense of being the the creator, maintainer and dissolver of each moment of their life. Um, and still have a beautiful, happy, you know, playful, um, celebratory life, and know that sometimes shit goes down, right? It's not always fun and games, sometimes it's, it's challenging. Sometimes you have to talk to lawyers for 3 hours, you know. Yes, exactly. So I actually I'd love to dive into that because, you know, in myself holding a lot of leadership positions and working, you know, a wide variety of different leadership roles through the years, like there's this place of, of both assumed power as a leader and the kind of give power. And I also have a very strong desire, like part of my intention with this podcast is to support people to remember their own leader inside. And yet any leader has a certain level of projection of, you know, decision making and control that happens upon them as a leader. One of the things that I really want to see in people, you know, underneath me or that I'm supporting is for them to step consciously into their own leadership. And so where, where do you hear your thoughts line between like supporting people to step into leadership. But knowing that when they do, there's also sometimes uh if they haven't had that role, like, you know, that loves to attach to that role of leader because if that's something new to them, they're like, oh well, this feels great feeling people, you know, beckoning my call and then listening to my orders, and the ego can get a lot fed by that, but ultimately, The real leader and what I'm hearing you share is coming from the deeper listening to spirit. So where do you feel like your guiding and leadership role is to support people to step in, but to have that, have that learned way of not Goic leadership, but a soul-centered leadership. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that is. That is a really good question because I don't and I think it's not, you know, there's not what it's not gonna be a one, you know, it's not just one answer. And I do think it's different also, uh, and that's changing somewhat, but I think there is a difference um between for men and women in in um. You know, and also based on your race and your economic status and all those things around privilege. I think one of the things I've learned, uh, there's this group called Right Use of Power, and I took their sort of introductory course of a year and a half ago, and, and it really helped me understand, um, you know, how about privilege and about sort of, um, How people can just kind of step into leading, you know, even just on their, you know, like being leaders, um, whether or not people are asking them to lead or not or or stepping into a role of power or being more on that top down like you're gonna do it my way. Um, unconsciously, right? Like there's that. So there's, there's so many, there's the subtle layers, and then, and I think for women, at least in my generation, you know, that was a little like there was a more caution around doing that, so you didn't like upset the apple carts, so to speak, and that's changed for sure over, you know, since women's limb and over the last 70 years or so, um. But it's, so there's the, the unconscious levels of leadership and how we're using our power. Are we using it unconsciously? Are we using it, who is the benefit for, you know, like the work around healthy boundaries and, and, and when I'm in, where am I in service? Like, I guess for me, my sort of life's purpose seems to be around service to others. That's just always been sort of a sense that I've always had that I'm here in service to others. I've known that since I was like 2 years old. Um, and that I've somehow known since I was 2, and I don't even know how you know this when you're 2, but there was something about love. I'm here in service of love, right? I'm here in service of love and how to be in service of love and the recognition. Even as a very, very young child, of where a lot of people weren't moving lovingly, right? Like adults, uh, seeing how they weren't treating each other lovingly, weren't treating children lovingly at times. I was in the foster care system for about a year and I really had like a huge introduction to how people can be loving and kind. Um, and I had a, I was with my little brother who was a baby at the time. So, and I was 4. So I felt, you know, like I, I this sense of responsibility very young. And, and so there's part of this thing around leadership that I guess is really at the top of my mind now with the election and everything. Has to do with what are we in service to? Are we in service to um the well-being of the, you know, the majority? Are we in service to specific groups that we really have passion for? Are we in service to our own aggrandizement, you know, like, where is, what's, what's the, where is the service? Where is the attachment? Where is the longing, where, you know, where is the energy wanna flow? And um And I think that's, that takes a self-inquiry process, you know, and particularly if you find yourself in a role of leadership and you're not used to it, you may not have even thought about those things, right? And I don't know that um. I don't know that people really that these kind of things are discussed like really clearly and publicly, like, OK, what is your, you know, purpose of being a leader? Like, even in politics, I don't think we really talk about, um, what kind of leaders do we want to have, you know, leading our country. Like, where are their, where are their interests? Where are their, um, what is their vision for the greater good, um, versus, look at me, I'm great. Um, so I think that this whole thing around leadership is really about looking deeply into what is power, one of the dynamics of power. I knew for myself, I'm very similar to what you're saying. My idea is that I want everyone to feel their own sovereignty so that ultimately, they're There's a sense that I am leading my life. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm letting life. It's not even I'm leading my life, but life is leading me, and I'm the one who's, who's following, choosing. And even if I'm following somebody else, I know that I'm, I'm at choice, not just doing it blindly. And I think that's one of my, um, Questions around social media as I feel like right now, sometimes it just feels like, you know, someone who's like these influencers um comes out with something and suddenly a whole movement starts and And I'm not always clear if people really are a choice or they're just following the trend because it's cool. I don't know. I'm, I, it's one of my questions around the whole social media movement and is it in service to people empower being feeling empowered in a line with their own guidance versus just blindly following whatever. Well, and, and what I hear in that and, and I think it's also a good segue is this level of, of accountability as a leader because especially in social media where people are, you know, they direct people's attention, they're giving them these offers and what I see a lot is if someone gets really good at marketing and they're good at, you know, drawing people into some thing. Is what they're drawing them into just benefiting their pocketbooks, or is it benefiting, you know, the service of the souls of individuals that are there? Is it a personality-driven leadership model that's just trying to feed this technocratic world that we live in, or is the leadership coming from a place of, hey, I want to empower you to be greater, and this comes into a place around accountability as a leader, accountability of how we show up. With this God-given skills that are in there. And this is something I've been reflecting upon a lot recently is like, there are certain skills that I've gained in this life of, you know, even military years, and I know how to lead people, I know how to guide people, I know how to show up as a strong facilitator, and I recognize that with that is a certain level of of responsibility of to be inside my own integrity. So I'd love to hear. How, and, and I know you have a passion with this as well, really with some of the things inside of the IA world, but how accountability plays into play with leadership and showing up in these roles of and guiding others. Yeah. Yeah, I, I think that this, this question around integrity, like to me this is a really huge one, like, How, well, you know, and what is even integrity mean, right? Like, what is integrity? How am I integrity myself? What are my own, what are my personal values, you know, what are, how do I want to move in the world? Do I notice if I'm, you know, when I'm compromising integrity, um, wanting to be surrounded, I think part of the beauty of community is having people around you that, uh, can, you know, can, can say something like, hey, I'm not saying it's, you know, something seems a little off here. Uh, I think we need to kind of, you know, we need people to also have our backs and, and help us recognize because often when we're going into more like the shadow aspects of power, often we're blind to it in the moment. We just, it doesn't always obvious to us. And that's why we need our peers to, to also help us to see, hey, hey, call us to attend attention. Um, so, and I don't know how much integrity, like, I think, yeah, like this whole thing around marketing, like I'm a terrible marketer. And back in the olden days when it was like putting up fliers and calling your friends and say, come over for this. Yeah, I was good at that, but like I just like, uh, I can't deal with it. Um, but still seems to be working out OK. But you know, I, I rely on other people mostly for that. But it partly because I feel like for me, I'm very much old school kind of person. I really like that old, you know, personal, you know, relationship. Um, versus, you know, like I, I find it really even hard to imagine that a 20-something can be an in social influencer with, you know, hundreds of thousands of followers, and I'm like, Yeah sure they they obviously know something and clearly they're good marketers, but I mean, how much wisdom do they really have at 20 whatever. Um, and it just makes me question, you know, like what is this about? And, and, um, and, and oftentimes I think this whole influencer thing is around, it is around money. Like, look, I'm successful, I'm making this much money, I'm selling this many whatevers, um, versus And and I mean capitalism. I mean, I've really been in this question recently about capitalism, and there are certain aspects of capitalism that I think, you know, like it can be inspiring, you know, you get an idea, a vision for something, and you can go out there and create it. But at the same time, can we have a, is there a way to have more of a conscious capitalism where you can say, hey, but I'm doing this because it will benefit people, not just, you know, to fill my own pocket, um, and And also how capitalism, if it's just comes down to the bottom line of giving your share shareholders, you know, a profit, is that, is that really, is that really what we want to, you know, spread and and it's spread all over the fucking planet, excuse my if, um, you know, it's spread everywhere. I mean, I was talking to a friend. A couple days ago about China. China was a communist country is now got, you know, entrepreneurs, it's become capitalistic in many ways. So it's just interesting how capitalism has spread all over the planet. Everybody's into it, but I don't necessarily think that it's a very conscious, you know, monetary system. And again, and as a child, you know, that I came to my, you know, sort of adulthood in the 70s. In the 70s, we had this vision that we're going to make the world a better place. There was that the beginning, the first Earth Day happened when I was a freshman in high school. You know, we're gonna make the planet better. We're gonna end poverty and in collusion, and, you know, in war and all the things. And as I'm gonna be 70 in a couple of months, and I'm like going. I don't know. I don't think we did that that kind of a job. I feel like the world is kind of taking a weird turn and um and as as somebody who I feel like I've devoted my life to wanting to, you know, to help people become more aware and more awake, more responsible, more to have more integrity, being, you know, creating more love in the world, uh, also to support people to have freedom as well, um. And yet, and I do think that's happening. I think consciousness, there is a raising of consciousness, however, Um, there still seems to be a lot of delusion out there, and it's, and that's kind of a question for me is like, what do I need, you know, in my last few years of productivity, so to speak, you know, what is, what am I gonna do to really, you know, help people to get more clarity? And I, and I mean, I'm working on it within myself, like every day. Uh, it's not a, it's not something you get to, and then it's done. It's, it's a practice, right? And, um, and how do you keep spreading that? That, cause I think to be responsable means, am I able to respond in a in a loving, compassionate, caring way in each moment as much as possible, and I'm a human being, and sometimes, you know, I won't do it the best. And, um, and particularly in a world where there is a lot of um projection, right? There's a lot of projections, there's a lot of assumption. Um, sometimes I'm mystified by how, uh, how much opinions are out there. I particularly, I, you know, and you have all these freaking apps on this device, which sometimes feels like the bane of my existence. You know, like I literally go to bed and I clear all my messages and wake up to 150 opinions of people that I'm, I'm supposed to now deal with. And like, like, really? Do we really have to have this much to say about every little thing? So I don't know, um, I'm finding just and it's partly probably because of the spiritual practice I'm doing right now is really about noticing these subtle levels of awareness, but I can feel this part of me that has some resistance to all the egoic You know, Stuff going on, uh, just in the communities that I'm involved in, not even in the whole world, cause I don't follow the global things that much. Yeah, and I, I, you know, I'd love to dive deeper into this place of where, you know, capitalism meets mystical awakening, kind of meets spiritual practice, because I, I see a lot of mystical spiritual teachers, you know, in many ways, both of us are that, and they're, they're almost not needs to be, but be a certain level of awareness of being an entrepreneur and making offerings and bringing yourself out into the world. And where is that level of the, the, the conscious capitalism and, you know, just as you're saying, like, can we, you know, in this kind of conscious capitalism or, you know, conscious entrepreneurship still be able to bring in The, the deeper levels of the spiritual practices to actually see even in where, you know, money and power especially are being woven in, can we see that each of these moments is actually the god taking form inside these. even in the moments when you're like, oh, this is like feels horrific, like recognizing even in those times that God can be there. And, and I'd love to in your practices, especially maybe some of the, the recent ones you're doing, like where you feel like You're able to meet this stance of capitalism meeting this awakening. Yeah. Yeah, it's really, it's a really interesting, um, cause I'm in this deep inquiry. I, I feel like I'm at this point in my life where I'm, um, you know, I've been working really hard in the last couple of years, especially since I got on the council, and there's a lot been going on within the organization that we're both a part of. And, and then there's this, there's something about turning 70, which I'm actually gonna have a call with a friend, Laurie Laurie Handlers and uh to talk to her about it cause I can feel it's triggering something. I mean, I've never had, I don't think I've ever really felt like a resistance to, you know, a number, um, but there's something about turning 70 that I can feel like, oh, there's something about that that is. You know, making me question like, what am I doing with, you know, my life. My younger brother is retired and I'm like, am I gonna just keep, you know, and I, and I, I, and I'm also recognizing this attachment to being a doer and capitalism really is great when you're attached to the doerness of yourself. And yet I On this level, I'm, I'm really, and this is part of my kind of resistance to answering all these messages, is that my on the spiritual level, I'm just wanting to sit and be, you know, watch my birds that come to feed off my bird feeders and walk around my neighborhood, hike up in the rocks, um. And there's something very quiet and and still, and, and just sort of the odd wonder of nature and the simplic I think simplicity, like I'm wanting more simplicity, and at the same time I'm recognizing when you're in these leadership kind of roles, it's it's almost, you know, it's it's they don't really fit simplicity and leadership sometimes feel like they're at odds with each other and um. And there's also this piece of um You know, like, I, I, you know, I, I'm not rich by any means, but I, you know, I make it reasonable living and I have a certain level of comfort, and I'm aware of, you know, getting older and, and, you know, wanting to find how am I gonna to maintain a certain level of living without having to work as much. Um, and at the same time, um, yeah, I mean, I love this idea of, you know, I don't, I haven't had um A community around me to talk around stuff around like consciously I love this conscious entrepreneurship like this idea of of conscious entrepreneurship and how Like, even, you know, it's like there's so many questions around like travel, you know, travel is not so good for the environment, it's not so, you know, jets fuel in the air is not really good for our uh biosphere, um, and yet, you know, like I'm one of those people who's flying around. And so there's just these kind of questions around how to create more alignment and easefulness and giving our gift. and doing it in a way that's in service to the world. And, um, you know, and that doesn't mean it's also not in service to ourselves. I think that's important that we're aligned to where it's also supporting our own life. We can't just be like, you know, sacrificing constantly, um. And, and it's, it seems, you know, it's complicated. It's, it's not just seems complicated, I think it is complicated, um, in a way that's so different when I think about my relatives when I was growing up. They lived in a lot. My mother's family lived in southeastern Oklahoma, and they were like farmers, right? They were like, you know, they lived, they didn't leave their, you know, they grew up in the same, you know, in the same little area, they lived on the same land, they went to the same church, they, you know, had the same friends and family around them all the time. It was such a different life, they could literally sit out and rock on the porch for hours staring off into the distance. They were not say, they were meditating, but they were probably in more of a meditative state than many, many, you know, meditators today. And life had a certain quality of simplicity and ease that I think is even hard to create. I'm like, I know right now with your community that you're creating there in Portugal, you know, there's this idea of I'm gonna create this simplicity and easefulness and, you know, have this place where you can come and be. in nature with people and, and have ease and peace. Um, and at the same time, you know, the world's still going on, and it feels like it keeps getting faster and faster. So I'm, I'm just sitting in there trying to find where's my place in that reality, um, particularly as I feel like I'm entering this sort of this new phase of my life where I'm thinking, I want to slow down. I want to do less. I wanna still have an impact. I still want to support people. I feel like There's something about um. Getting older where I, I feel like I've harvested a lifetime of experience, right? I've learned a lot and so how do you share that? And at the same time, I don't feel like I necessarily want to always monetize everything either, you know, sometimes I just like to hang out with people, you know, and if they ask me questions, I can offer, you know, what I have to say, but it's necessarily have to have a course on it or a class on it, or, you know, so song or whatever it is, um. And I don't, and there's there's not so many places like where you can just do that. I don't know. It's a, it's a question. I feel like it's, it's we're in a different era now that I'm still trying to sort of understand my place at this point in my life because I feel like I'm in a transition period. Mm, yeah. No, I'm sure there's a lot that, that, that can relate to that and, you know, I, I also hear the, the genuine and I feel it in who you are as a being to really give back to this younger generation and I guess it's, you know, it's just coming into my awareness, but if there was a, you know, a, a new baby being born, you know, today or tomorrow and you had a You know, 2 or 3 minute period to kind of speak directly to the soul of that child and share, you know, a few nuggets of, of wisdom, and you're 70 years of being in this, you know, human flesh suit and as a soul incarnate and having your, your spiritual journey. It'll be a few of those nuggets of wisdom you'd share to that newborn who's just about to take their journey. Yeah, I mean, I think the word that came up for me was savor. It's like savoring it, like there's something, there's um like there's a word in um In Sanskrit called Chaatara, which is like a wonder, and I think this, I love being around little kids, you know, because they had this on wonder, they have this chaatara that is really like just everything, you know, you walk outside and you, the leaves are turning colors and you're like, you know, you see a worm crawling, oh my gosh, look at a gecko. Um, like everything has this, this, uh, on wonder, and, and, and that often we lose that as we get older. So I would say savoring life in every moment, no matter what it looks like, and, and, and maintaining your connection to the awe and wonder that you have as a young child throughout your life. Like I feel like somehow. Um, I've, I've been able to do that. Like I've maintained that sense of awe and wonder, and I, and I really do savor life. And I, it's funny cause there was a period when my kids were in school age that I tried really hard. I spent like a year trying to be like a normal. Mom and like join the PTA and do all the normal mom stuff. And then after about a year, maybe it wasn't even 1 year, maybe it's like 6 months. I was just like, I don't think I can pull it off. And so I told my kids, I've tried really hard to be a normal mom, and I don't think I can pull it off. And they're like, Good mom, we're happy. Just be yourself, you know. Um, and And I think there's something about that, like, so often we're told that when you, you don't have to grow up and be serious and, you know, plan everything and you try to control and and it's just my experience of life is it's not like that, like life. The more that you can just stay in that on wonder, savor things as they emerge, and I think part of it also, I'd say maybe the one of the biggest things I've learned in the last few years through the spiritual, um, sort of the nondohiva path is the Wrecking is really enjoying the moments when things are dissolving, like completions. Like I love completions. It's like one of those moments when everything is dissolving away, because where does it dissolve away to, to your divine nature. So to be able to rest in those moments when things are dissolving, because there's a space, and this is something I feel. Yeah, this is probably one thing I really would like to get out there in my last few years of, you know, being out there in the world, is for people to really learn how to enjoy the moments when you dissolve back into your into your true nature and just rest there, even if it's for one breath. Because there's an ease and there's like a In that moment you're whole and complete. Well you know, with with the the sort of the western capitalist model is so much you gotta get out there and prove yourself and get more and get more and do better. But actually every moment when that moment dissolves, you dissolve back into your wholeness, back into your divinity, back into that which is whole and complete and If you can have that experience, you know, just a couple times in the day of like, all right, I'm holding complete. Let me just remember that. Like that is so nourishing to to every part of your being. And also I think people love when they're around somebody who feels that, you know, like they can feel that in you. Like there's something about that person. When I'm around them, I can just relax into myself. And um and I guess I would love to see us have more leaders, um, you know, more public figures that have that quality, um, and I don't see a whole lot of that sort of out there in the big public arenas, um. Well, it's something I honor and appreciate about you. I feel like you have a deep childlike wonder and spending time with you and teaching alongside you. There's a Uh, uh, a beautiful capacity to be in that wonder and and to express in that way. It's one of the, the things I really appreciate about who you are as a being. Thank you. Yeah, and um, yeah, and I think there's there's something about being able, there's something about aging, I think because I think we're still in a very much of a youthful worshiping culture, and I would like to see people as they're aging, to be able to do that with the joyfulness. Like there's nothing wrong with growing older, right? It doesn't mean you're old, but, you know, there's something about the aging process with experience comes hopefully comes some wisdom. And how to do that in a way with grace and ease, um. And also that that that ability to just be to know your wholeness and to be able to rest in yourself, you know, like the rest in yourself quality. There's something about that quality of Just being in an easeful rest, um, that I think I didn't appreciate it when I was seeing it in my relatives as a child. I thought it was boring as a, you know, I kind of like, like, what are they doing? They're sitting out there doing nothing for an hour. What, what's happening? Why don't we do something? But as I look back on it now, I was like, oh, they were just resting in the beingness of, you know, what is, without need to be busy. And I would like to see more of that quality of, of that kind of down, you know, now we know from being, you know, the whole trauma informed thing that that down regulation is so important to our nervous system, so important for our health and well-being, and I, and um And I think that there's there's there's a quality there that I would like to see, you know, I don't know how, you know, it's like, how do you promote doing nothing. And resting in your nature, um, but there's something about I would love to see people have more of an appreciation for that quality. And um and how to, you know, and again, it's, it's, I think what I'm learning, one of the things I'm really learning around this really subtle kind of work is, um, that it's not about what it looks like, it's about where it's coming from, and it's actually those moments where a deep stillness and and quiet. And uh and it's not even, um, you know, you could, you could be having a moment of stillness internally while you're seemingly chopping vegetables or chopping wood or whatever um but it's that quality of that inner um stillness, um. That I think people are longing for in our culture and so that's the thing I'm really kind of in an inquiry like I'm recognizing you know I just uh a level one it's the level one. In Minnesota was the first one, and I grew up in the Midwest, and I love Midwesterners, and it was, but I recognized, OK, how do I even get people to slow down more, create more spaciousness, more easefulness, um. And I'm not a slowed down. I tend to be a highly, like I have a lot of energy, I have a lot of, you know, Shay. And um but, but I'm also really recognizing like there is a place for that ease of quiet stillness of just landing and being that um has value and yet I think um That value hasn't really been very well recognized in this kind of postmodern, very fast-paced culture that I'm even I I like going fast and I'm finding it like almost too much for my nervous system sometimes. So I think there's, you know, this is the inquiry, like the place where you're, you know, you are in Portugal, there was something about that land, you know, and just the valley there and the village nearby that has a quiet, um, restful, useful, slowed downness that is very for me felt very seductive, like this, yes, you know, a little creek and um. And there's, and there's something about land on earth, right? The element of earth that helps us to ground. I think that's partly why I'm living in Sedona, because there's this, this, this, this rock, you know, this kind of dense rocket that was at the bottom of a uh inland sea for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years that holds a certain quality of the earthiness, um. Mhm. That is very grounding for me. I really, I love it here. Mhm. Hm, yeah. The, the last kind of, you know, inquiry I'd love to, to have you speak into, so I've had on this show, you know, some older beings, young girls, Laurie Handlers was here, Margot Anan was here, and, you know, we talked about sexuality on this, you know, podcast, and what I often see in, you know, not necessarily any of the three of you, but, you know, women, especially sometimes as they get older, there's this mindset of like, Oh, you know, I, I, I can't be juicy, I can be sexy, I can't be any of that, and what I experience and And all three of you and several other, you know, women I know of similar age, there's this aliveness and juiciness and, and, you know, sexuality that still moves and vibrates to your being. So, what are some of the, the, the words or, you know, advice or words of wisdom you might share, especially to those, you know, individuals the same age as you might be, you know, struggling with their own sexuality and staying juicy and alive. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. Um. Because what I mean, uh, you know, there's a lot, there's quite a lot of women that I'm around with, you know, uh, ISA and participants who come to trainings, particularly women who are perimenopausal, and that was, you know, I remember that quite well when I went through that period in my, actually I, I I had my first hot flash right after I found out my son's partner was pregnant when I was 43. And I actually had my very last period be literally like 2 weeks before I moved to Sedona. So like my whole time in Sedona, which is almost 20 years, I've been menopausal. And, um, and so I know that that transition is often challenging for women, both, uh, hormonally, emotionally. Um, and also, I mean, my own experience was even though I looked quite young for my age, so it wasn't like men thought I was menopausal, but they do the hormones do affect how there was, you know, there's a, there's a, a play relating to the hormonal body, and um, so I think it's, it's partly to really I think staying in touch with your life force energy, your sexual energy, the Kundalini energy, whatever you wanna call it, and, and how to keep circulating that. Like I would say I'm more orgasmic than I've ever been, like, yeah, I like, I mean, I'm very orgasmic, my life is very orgasmic. Um, I have a lover, but he lives like 1000 miles away. I don't see him very often. I'm, you know, I'm I mind having some other lovers around that were a little more geographically available. Um, I certainly, I'm, I'm fortunate in that I still feel like my yoni is very juicy, um, but I think partly it has to do with circulating that life force energy, and I think there's a lot of it has to do with our minds, like the, the word in the Sanskrits of the culpa, like if I have a be culpa that says if I I'm not menstruating somehow I'm not no longer sexy or juicy or attractive, that belief will affect, you know, how I present myself and how people respond to me. Versus if I'm like, no, I am the divine goddess, no matter what I look like, and no matter how old I am, and, and find the things that keep feeding that life force energy in me like dance, like for me, dance is a big one, being out in nature is a big one, you know, just being um savoring, right? I was saying about the savoring piece, um, loving the body, doing things that make the body feel loved. Um, and I think for women, like to me, I don't, I, I don't feel, um, yeah, when I feel still feel very sexual, like I feel like I'm a very sexual being, even though I'm not having uh intercourse like very often. Um, but for me it's not a mean even about that. It's like I literally, I would say my spiritual practice is making love with life in every moment, right? Like, so for me it's like how do I meet each from that kind of juicy. A shocky kind of place of like, how am I gonna make love to this moment? And you know, some of those moments are um easier than others, but like you it's quite a long time ago now, maybe 10 years ago or more. I, um, it was tax season and I was like, I'm making love to my. Taxes, that's gonna be my goal. How do I make up my taxes? And I thought, wow, OK, Crystal, like, I like to set challenges for myself. And I had the most fun doing my taxes. Like it was like a detective novel, and I was like finding where did the money come from and where did it go? and who, you know, who did it, what happened? And, um, and it became really fun. So I think part of it is like, if you think about every moment as an opportunity to make love and for me, Especially if it's something challenging, you know, like when a challenge comes into your life. OK, how do I make love to that challenge, um, and find a way to, to really bring that compassion, bring the love, bring the playfulness, bring the sensuality. Um, for me, that's, that's my approach. I'm, and, and I actually enjoy when I get challenges, not that I'm asking for a whole lot of challenges, you know, but, but when the challenges arise. I, I actually kind of get excited, like, oh, here's something that's still kind of challenging for me. Um, so I think it's not too, cause I think sometimes we get caught up in the story of like, it has to look like it used to. And if I know myself as a sexual being and it looks like this, um, then that can be challenging. Like I spent most of my life in relationships, and I haven't really been in a committed long term like living together relationships for for 20 years. And yet, yeah, I was like, OK, well, this is interesting. It's not what I expected and um I'm, I'm going with the flow. So how to keep, you know, it's, it's this, it's a way of contextualizing things so that they keep the life force flowing and excited and juicy and interactive. Um, and it's not, again, I, I really want to stress this thing of that we So much of marketing these days is about what it looks like. And if you don't, if it's not so much about what it looks like, but about where it's coming from. If I'm making love to life in every moment, then I'm just having sex all the time. Even though it looks like I'm, you know, doing other stuff. Like it's all about you. Making love with life versus if I have an idea that if I don't have a man in my bed or a lover in my bed every day, that somehow I'm not sexy, then it's I'm gonna have a different experience. So if you see the woman exactly dancing in the airport, you'll know she's crystal Dawn or someone that knows her. Exactly. Thank you for, for, for, for all of this. I just, uh, yeah, I really appreciate you. I'm very, very grateful for our friendship. I'm glad that we get to teach together, those of you that like to, to come join one of the things we're doing together will be in Roatan, um, in June and teaching and living in level one with ISA and uh August in uh Seattle. We'll be doing a live at level one there as well, so. Um, thank you for your presence, for your, for your joy, for your liveness, for the journey you bring into this world and all the lives that you've impacted along the way. I can really, uh, I honor you and I appreciate you a lot. Thank you for being in my life. Thank you, Erin, and thank you for, you know, doing these, these podcasts and, you know, and addressing these these topics, which are really important topics, and it's an honor to be on your show and uh sending you much love and It's just been a blessing to be here. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Thank you, everyone. This has been another great episode here at Love Sex and Leadership and be sure if you're watching this on YouTube, to subscribe and follow us and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me at any time up through the website. Thank you all and have a beautiful day.