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Esben Kran joins the podcast to discuss why securing AGI requires more than traditional cybersecurity, exploring new attack surfaces, adaptive malware, and the societal shifts needed for resilient defenses. We cover protocols for safe agent communication, oversight without surveillance, and distributed safety models across companies and governments.
Learn more about Esben's work at: https://blog.kran.ai
00:00 – Intro and preview
01:13 – AGI security vs traditional cybersecurity
02:36 – Rebuilding societal infrastructure for embedded security
03:33 – Sentware: adaptive, self-improving malware
04:59 – New attack surfaces
05:38 – Social media as misaligned AI
06:46 – Personal vs societal defenses
09:13 – Why private companies underinvest in security
13:01 – Security as the foundation for any AI deployment
14:15 – Oversight without a surveillance state
17:19 – Protocols for safe agent communication
20:25 – The expensive internet hypothesis
23:30 – Distributed safety for companies and governments
28:20 – Cloudflare's "agent labyrinth" example
31:08 – Positive vision for distributed security
33:49 – Human value when labor is automated
41:19 – Encoding law for machines: contracts and enforcement
44:36 – DarkBench: detecting manipulative LLM behavior
55:22 – The AGI endgame: default path vs designed future
57:37 – Powerful tool AI
01:09:55 – Fast takeoff risk
01:16:09 – Realistic optimism
Esben Kran joins the podcast to discuss why securing AGI requires more than traditional cybersecurity, exploring new attack surfaces, adaptive malware, and the societal shifts needed for resilient defenses. We cover protocols for safe agent communication, oversight without surveillance, and distributed safety models across companies and governments.
Learn more about Esben's work at: https://blog.kran.ai
00:00 – Intro and preview
01:13 – AGI security vs traditional cybersecurity
02:36 – Rebuilding societal infrastructure for embedded security
03:33 – Sentware: adaptive, self-improving malware
04:59 – New attack surfaces
05:38 – Social media as misaligned AI
06:46 – Personal vs societal defenses
09:13 – Why private companies underinvest in security
13:01 – Security as the foundation for any AI deployment
14:15 – Oversight without a surveillance state
17:19 – Protocols for safe agent communication
20:25 – The expensive internet hypothesis
23:30 – Distributed safety for companies and governments
28:20 – Cloudflare’s “agent labyrinth” example
31:08 – Positive vision for distributed security
33:49 – Human value when labor is automated
41:19 – Encoding law for machines: contracts and enforcement
44:36 – DarkBench: detecting manipulative LLM behavior
55:22 – The AGI endgame: default path vs designed future
57:37 – Powerful tool AI
01:09:55 – Fast takeoff risk
01:16:09 – Realistic optimism
The Future of Life Institute (FLI) is a nonprofit working to reduce global catastrophic and existential risk from powerful technologies. In particular, FLI focuses on risks from artificial intelligence (AI), biotechnology, nuclear weapons and climate change. The Institute's work is made up of three main strands: grantmaking for risk reduction, educational outreach, and advocacy within the United Nations, US government and European Union institutions. FLI has become one of the world's leading voices on the governance of AI having created one of the earliest and most influential sets of governance principles: the Asilomar AI Principles.