15 00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:07.080 Neha Sampat: Welcome to dream makers candid conversations with women that will change the way that you see success purpose and what it takes to bridge the two. 16 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:15.660 Neha Sampat: I may have Sam pat a three time tech founder and CEO, with a focus on companies that are places to dream big build up and be a good human. 17 00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:22.710 Neha Sampat: i'm CEO of content stack and also certified some way so normally we drink wine here, but sometimes we drink other things too. 18 00:01:23.550 --> 00:01:29.040 Neha Sampat: So today is one of those days and i'm we're going to try something really interesting and will tell you about that in a minute. 19 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:38.970 Neha Sampat: i'm joined by Dr debbie Chen The co founder and CEO of hydro status it company developing personalized and actionable hydration monitoring solutions. 20 00:01:39.300 --> 00:01:48.030 Neha Sampat: Today we're going to talk about the challenges of academia, building a business in the face of bias and refusing to be pigeonholed let's get started hi debbie. 21 00:01:48.330 --> 00:01:51.660 Neha Sampat: Hello welcome it's so nice to have you here. 22 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:53.880 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: thanks for having me i'm excited. 23 00:01:54.600 --> 00:02:03.300 Neha Sampat: So, on your linkedin profile, it says that you're a muay Thai fighter and that's probably one of the coolest things i've heard from one of my guests on dream makers. 24 00:02:03.570 --> 00:02:12.240 Neha Sampat: But i'm not sure that I fully know what that is, I know it's not jazzercise from the prep that you did with my team and tell us what that is and how you picked up that hobby. 25 00:02:12.630 --> 00:02:22.110 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah yeah so the story was that I actually thought it was jazzercise I didn't actually know what I was getting myself into but most high is a traditional. 26 00:02:23.190 --> 00:02:36.030 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: martial art originating from Thailand so it's very similar to kickboxing you know but it's also not just punches and kicks but you also get to do knees and elbows. 27 00:02:37.050 --> 00:02:41.520 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: So I call it a beautiful violence, if you will. 28 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:44.340 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: it's very the technique is very beautiful and. 29 00:02:44.880 --> 00:02:52.740 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know if if you do it right it's yeah it's really fascinating 30 00:02:53.310 --> 00:02:55.290 Neha Sampat: Like fighting and dancing kind of combined. 31 00:02:56.130 --> 00:03:00.810 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah I mean you know martial art is an art right so there's a lot of. 32 00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:10.620 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: sort of technique to it and discipline and kind of knowing your body right every dancer is different, you know and and how your body moves it's the same thing. 33 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:22.500 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: With with martial arts and so understanding your body and your strengths and you know what you need to work on, and all this stuff it's it's just never ending for me that you know the fascination with you know how you can. 34 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.680 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: continue to get better every day and really it just you know meshed into my founder journey so it's actually really cool. 35 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.290 Neha Sampat: that's really cool we're going to talk more about that. 36 00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:40.830 Neha Sampat: In a little bit and i'm super inspired to hear more about it, so what we're drinking today is fans oh sparkling water, I felt I sound like i'm like an infomercial. 37 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:44.400 Neha Sampat: not paying me for this, I was just looking for something kind of. 38 00:03:44.430 --> 00:03:53.040 Neha Sampat: interesting and what I like about this brand is that they're peering Asian flavors with a modern taste and it's still like zero added sugar and so you get like. 39 00:03:53.250 --> 00:04:03.900 Neha Sampat: You know the benefit of having a sparkling water, but with some interesting flavor, so this is a light G flavored sparkling water, they also have mango and kalin muncie which is like a type of line so let's. 42 00:04:08.190 --> 00:04:11.790 Neha Sampat: And so they say it's made with real fruit you're supposed to serve it chilled. 43 00:04:13.140 --> 00:04:15.150 Neha Sampat: And 20 calories sure. 44 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.680 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: hmm that's good. 45 00:04:20.520 --> 00:04:24.330 Neha Sampat: that's good it tastes like you're like having a light you but it's like. 46 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:25.680 Neha Sampat: yeah carbonation. 47 00:04:28.020 --> 00:04:29.130 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah toast very. 48 00:04:31.050 --> 00:04:32.220 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Like Asian. 49 00:04:32.280 --> 00:04:33.150 Neha Sampat: In like. 50 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:35.220 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I don't know how to say it, you know what I mean. 51 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:36.540 Neha Sampat: Is it. 52 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:40.110 Neha Sampat: Like people don't eat a lot i'd like to your lead she I don't know i've heard it both. 53 00:04:40.110 --> 00:04:44.820 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Ways in Chinese it's really cheap, but I think in English, most people say like cheap but i'm not sure. 54 00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:56.430 Neha Sampat: that's an interesting one, to look up later, but in India, you know in India people it's really a popular food, and it is so in China and other parts of Asia and not as well known here so. 55 00:04:56.820 --> 00:04:58.560 Neha Sampat: kind of a delicacy and a lot of fun. 56 00:04:58.740 --> 00:04:59.250 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I love it. 3:42 57 00:05:00.210 --> 00:05:12.120 Neha Sampat: awesome so let's jump into your background tell me a little bit more about you and kind of your journey, so you have a PhD in biomedical engineering and started off in academia so tell us about what you were doing and then. 58 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:16.830 Neha Sampat: My understanding is that wasn't you know, academia wasn't your favorite thing tell us a little bit about that too. 59 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:26.640 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah well yeah so I sort of grew up thinking that like you know science was truth right and I wanted to be you know. 60 00:05:27.630 --> 00:05:41.730 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: adding to the knowledge base of humankind, or you know this, these like really lofty you know goals and I thought that was that was what I wanted to do, and hence I did a PhD and of course biomedical engineering was fascinating. 61 00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:57.690 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And so yeah so my PhD was at tufts university, I was studying near infrared spectroscopy that the technology that I just this is using but i'm just a different application so we were developing a diagnostic for. 62 00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:16.500 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Peripheral neuropathy, and so we thought that hey maybe we can tell before the nerve is damaged that you know, there is a change in the blood flow surrounding the nerve so that's what I did for my thesis 67 00:06:26.430 --> 00:06:29.880 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: i'm a lot of diabetics get. 68 00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:41.130 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Peripheral neuropathy which is sort of tingling and they call it gloves and socks syndrome, a little bit because the hands and feet get tingly. 76 00:07:16.590 --> 00:07:19.920 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: so I graduated in 2010. 77 00:07:20.010 --> 00:07:39.210 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And it wasn't a great time to find a job, and so you know i've always kind of wanted to work for startup but you know just yeah I didn't know where to start to be honest and I ended up doing a postdoc I came back to San Diego so I did my undergrad at ucsd also environmental engineering. 78 00:07:40.710 --> 00:07:42.330 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And I did a postdoc in in. 79 00:07:43.710 --> 00:07:51.750 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: The Department pathology at ucsd Medical School and then I ended up doing another postdoc this time at. 80 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:57.090 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: scripps oceanography so my background, has been very sort of. 81 00:07:58.260 --> 00:08:00.090 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Broad and. 82 00:08:01.170 --> 00:08:12.000 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know, come to realize like i'm more of a generalist than a sort of one, you know very deep understanding of one piece of the science, and so I think. 83 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:22.800 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: The the issue there is that if you're going to go into academia, you know as a professor, you know p-i you have to be very focused on the one thing that you're studying. 84 00:08:23.370 --> 00:08:33.180 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And I was just like I follow what I find interesting the projects that I find interesting and most of them are high risk, high reward prospects turns out. 85 00:08:33.690 --> 00:08:43.830 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: That it's it's perfect you know fit for for a startup founder but um yeah So these are the types of problems you started been doing, but really all along and kind of building these different data. 86 00:08:44.280 --> 00:09:02.940 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: data sets and building these skill sets that that will help me eventually in you know in my startup life 88 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:14.100 Neha Sampat: around that time you also became a new mom. 89 00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:14.850 Neha Sampat: and 90 00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:18.030 Neha Sampat: You kind of experienced that it wasn't really like that. 91 00:09:18.300 --> 00:09:19.170 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: That world with a. 92 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.360 Neha Sampat: seeker empathetic towards moms what was that, like. Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: after I came back you know in my building there was not a nursing. room, so I had to hike to the next, building over, and you know if you've tried to pump at at an office before it's like. 97 00:10:03.450 --> 00:10:17.610 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know, every three hours and, if I have to hike 15 minutes to get to the room and then pump for another 20 minutes or 30 minutes and then come back for 15 minutes and work for an hour and then by that time it's already been three hours, and then I have to hike again. 98 00:10:17.730 --> 00:10:34.710 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah so I didn't get much work done, you know after those those you know, three months, and then we did three months, maternity and then I had three months left of my contract and so by that by that time it was like Oh well, you didn't get much work done so we're not going to. 99 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:45.360 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: extend your your contract so yeah and I was like okay yeah that's fine I guess you know so it's just it wasn't the the most supportive. 100 00:10:45.690 --> 00:11:00.750 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: place, to be honest um you know, and I think that's just in general, academia, you know, maybe it's starting to change a little bit for the better now hopefully, but when I was there, and also, you know engineering is mostly male. 104 00:11:05.940 --> 00:11:17.970 Neha Sampat: I think it's very similar in like the early earlier days in tech companies to because it was pretty male dominated and I just remember like I worked at a couple large companies where you'd have to go for buildings over to find. 105 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:19.410 Neha Sampat: a place that had a. 106 00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:29.820 Neha Sampat: mom's room and it was just insane same experience like really not conducive to being productive and and just felt like so unfair to see that happening. 9:22 107 00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:34.380 Neha Sampat: yeah okay so let's revisit my boy ties know. 108 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:47.730 Neha Sampat: What is that yeah okay Sounds like that training was kinda just what you needed at that point in time, and you said something in the pre-interview that was interesting, you said that fighting helped you defend yourself, both on and off the mat — can you expand on that? Debbie Chen: Yeah, so I think as like an Asian female you're kind of like taught to be, you know, agreeable and you know, respectful and you know, kind of you know, not standing up for yourself, and you know, stuff like that of course there's exceptions, we do know some some females that that are super you know, kicking ass and stuff like that, but that was not how I was raised, and also at that point, I was unemployed, so I was like you know, I'm just going to look for a gym, and you know I wanted to get back in shape and I didn't know how much I needed it, to be honest, on the mental side and that mental toughness side Because you know it's a combat sport, like people will hit you in the face, I mean they're your friends they’ll try not to kill you, but they will hit you in the face, and how are you going to react to that? And so the way that I did it was I just cried every single time I got hit for like six months and it got to the point where, you know, some my friends were like “You know, I don't know, is this really for you? You know, and pretty soon I realized like oh, I can hit back Oh okay that's a decision that you can make, right? You realize oh somebody's going to hit me and I'm not going to shrivel up and die, I'm gonna stand back up and I'm going to hit them back, right? So these are the types of you know experiences that you also experiences as a founder, right? So that's what I brought, and also the day-to-day, right? Like every day you wake up like “I don't want to go to the gym” right? My body is sore, yesterday sucks, you know, and but you go and you just get better every single day and that really is also the founder journey Neha Sampat: For sure, yeah I always think about like the hardest thing is showing up, and if you know, that’s true like if you're in a exercise regime or trying to like play your game up, it's also true with with running a company or being an entrepreneur being a founder — like a constant fight of like, just get out of bed and show up and like and face it 126 00:14:16.680 --> 00:14:25.710 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah and I think you know once I started fighting, so I actually you know competed in the ring, and that was a whole nother level of scary um. 127 00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:35.700 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: But I realized that you know it was it's all about self confidence right like If you go into the ring and you're like “Okay I'm not going to win” you're not going to win And you know and it's the same same with the startup like you have to have just like the most on unpenetrable self confidence, and you know, as female founders it's difficult, right, to have that like positivity, and you know, mental state of like this is worth it, you know? The thing that I'm doing is going to better the world and no matter what comes at me, and the whole system's not built for me and that's okay, and all the biases implicit and explicit, you know I'm going to just do the best I can and that's all you can do for sure show up every day. And I always I always think about the importance of expecting to win in in the founder journey, because if you don't then what's the point? Like, show up and expect to win and you're going to fail, and you're going to be rejected, and you just have to get back up and back in the ring, so to speak 13:04 134 00:15:25.050 --> 00:15:38.580 Neha Sampat: Exactly so that takes us to hydro spaces, the company founded and it sounds like you kind of combined your world of science and business and then now fitness can you explain how did you come up with that concept. 135 00:15:39.090 --> 00:15:47.880 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah it was all through you know my personal experiences with hydration So when I started training, you know I realized like. 136 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.320 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I crap all the time right like I didn't know how to hydrate myself and. 137 00:15:52.830 --> 00:16:00.450 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know I hear all these things like drink eight glasses of water it's like Okay, but that doesn't mean anything if i'm going to the gym for like two hours right. 138 00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:11.340 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And so, then i'm like oh my buddy over here is like 250 pounds like do they also need the same amount of water and I quickly realized that you know it needs to be personalized right like. 139 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:24.720 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: If i'm in you know elite athlete versus you know, a couch potato versus a marathoner versus you know 250 pound, you know football nfl player like we're all going to need very different amounts of hydration. 140 00:16:25.170 --> 00:16:36.600 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And what is that and nobody knows literally nobody knows and it's like I tried to go out and buy these products right and it didn't exist, and I was like okay well. 141 00:16:37.230 --> 00:16:42.120 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know what maybe I maybe I could do it right and, and so I thought about the. 142 00:16:42.510 --> 00:16:51.990 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: The the signals that we were looking at you know when I was doing My thesis and one of the signals that we did see was was the hydration signal the water signal in the in the. 143 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:59.220 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: spectrum in the near infrared spectrum and we actually tried to avoid that signal, because it was it was. 144 00:16:59.730 --> 00:17:07.080 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Not what we were interested in, so we actually use that as like okay that's a noise we don't want to look at it, so we wanted to focus on whatever else we were looking at. 145 00:17:07.620 --> 00:17:15.900 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And I was like Oh, I wonder if we could just focus on that right, and so yeah it was really kind of all of these pieces of my life coming together and. 146 00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:23.010 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And then also quickly I realized, you know my background is biomedical engineering and there's a huge need in the clinic. 147 00:17:23.370 --> 00:17:37.170 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I experienced it when I was pregnant and everybody's like drink more water and I almost fainted and fell down a flight of stairs and i'm like this is super super dangerous like why can't I know. 15:11 148 00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:50.100 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Before I get lightheaded and low blood pressure that I needed more water right and and I didn't know, and so you know that that that really kick started the interest in the clinical path for me. 149 00:17:50.550 --> 00:17:58.440 Neha Sampat: yeah I mean that and what an inspiration right just to going through that journey yourself what where do you think the product is in terms of product by ability now. 150 00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:10.800 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah so we've actually proven that it works we've proven that it works on the bicep and the risk now, and the reason why we first of all, we kind of avoided the risk because the wrist very noisy place for a wearable but. 151 00:18:11.340 --> 00:18:15.570 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know that's really where everybody is used to wearing devices. 152 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:23.400 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And, and also we had all these smartwatch manufacturers, you know come coming to us and asking us for for these solutions so. 153 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:33.420 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: They really are excited for sort of the next big bio insight right everybody has steps and heart rate and you know pulse ox emitters, and all the fancy stuff. 154 00:18:33.810 --> 00:18:46.230 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And what is next right and so we're really sort of riding on this healthcare at the wrist right, and so we have all of these bio bio insights and we really feel like hydration is the next big bio insight. 155 00:18:47.100 --> 00:19:00.330 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: So yeah right now we're we're evaluating our sensor systems and our algorithms with some of these top tier smartwatch manufacturers, hoping to get it out into you know some some well known. 156 00:19:01.350 --> 00:19:03.690 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: smartwatch brands, by the end of 2023. 16:41 157 00:19:04.050 --> 00:19:05.010 Neha Sampat: Who that's awesome. 158 00:19:05.070 --> 00:19:08.820 Neha Sampat: yeah, what do you think is your ultimate goal for hydro states. 159 00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:16.710 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I think what I would like to do for hydro stasis is really make this technology. 160 00:19:17.610 --> 00:19:26.040 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: impactful and available for for all right, and by all I mean you know the consumer use case the clinical use case. 161 00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:41.910 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And even in sort of the philanthropic world where you know a lot of these non nonprofits are building wells right in areas where there's no access to water and you think like yeah if you tell them, you need more water they're going to be like no duh. 162 00:19:43.290 --> 00:19:53.100 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Right and that's not helpful but we've talked to a few of them and they actually said, you know it's actually quite helpful because, once we build that well. 163 00:19:53.520 --> 00:20:06.420 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: People are not understanding how much water, they need to really be well right so to bring that health and wellness to these communities, so we really see the the the wide gamut you know of. 164 00:20:07.080 --> 00:20:16.830 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: impact that hydration can have right because really like Water is life it's everywhere it's the you know biggest part of our human bodies and. 165 00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:29.340 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know, so if we can make it accessible and understandable and build these better hydration habits, we can actually sort of prevent a lot of early onset chronic diseases. and especially our elderly are elderly whether it's with dementia, or any other things that they're dealing with um. 171 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:59.910 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know the thirst mechanism also starts to fade when you when you age, and so, if you're not feeling thirsty. 172 00:21:00.450 --> 00:21:14.010 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know you're not going to want to drink water right unless somebody else like a physician or a caretaker or device is telling you hey you should drink some more water and so that's kind of you know where we think we would make a big impact as well. 18:48 173 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:25.050 Neha Sampat: yeah that's awesome I mean I, like you have the I have the apple watch and it can remind me to stand up and in the same way if it told me to drink a glass of water, it just do it because it's the right thing. 174 00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:28.020 Neha Sampat: yeah sometimes you need that push. 175 00:21:28.410 --> 00:21:29.610 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah yeah. 176 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.250 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: cuz right now yeah like right now the all the watches. 177 00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:38.760 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Are sort of reminders or you tell it, how much you've done it keeps track or. 178 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:53.790 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know you have these like smart water bottles that that kind of blinker or keep track or whatever right but there's nothing out there, that really measures hydration in the body and tells you what your body is doing in real time right so that's kind of the the. 179 00:21:53.850 --> 00:21:54.660 Neha Sampat: missing piece. 180 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.040 Neha Sampat: And the personalization of that not just again like not just a generic count. 19:32 181 00:21:59.070 --> 00:22:10.710 Neha Sampat: But sadly, is typically to you so let's dig into the process of building your business it of course it's never an easy journey but it wasn't an easy journey, for you either, and you said you started from zero. 182 00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:15.840 Neha Sampat: And as sort of an outsider to fundraising what has that process been like for you. 00:22:44.130 --> 00:23:00.840 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: it's just been a challenge you know there's unconscious and very conscious biases that i've seen and and and sort of the lack of examples and the lack of you know, investors that are in the space, so you know a lot of times i'll. 186 00:23:02.130 --> 00:23:08.850 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: The the the sort of life science folks are mostly male on the investor side and. 187 00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:17.070 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: All investors across the board, are mostly male but especially on the deep tech and the life science sectors and so. 188 00:23:18.390 --> 00:23:27.360 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know it's it's something that we're continuing to work with I work with several groups of you know, female focused investors and. 189 00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:41.820 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: That you know as a founders perspective i'm trying to help build that side of the table as well um so yeah that's pretty much all we can do right, you know we've got to start somewhere and you gotta just keep going I guess right. 20:49 190 00:23:42.210 --> 00:23:50.340 Neha Sampat: Here sure, and like I remember early in my journey people used to ask me this all the time and it drove me nuts, because it wasn't right for me, but I'm going to ask you anyway So, why wouldn't you just ask your friends and family or people that you already know to invest in you? Debbie Chen: First of all I didn't you know go to Stanford MBA or Harvard MBA, right?Like, that's — you know, if that's a built in network that you have to ask your friends And you know also, I think, culturally it's very different, I think for me, I was almost hesitant to ask my family straight off the bat just because I wasn't sure that I was going to be successful, right? Like that sounds absurd, right? Because nobody's going to be sure that they're going to be successful as a start up founder, but I think culturally it's just — it's an extra hurdle that you kind of don't ask your family for money. In fact, you're supposed to give your family money, like the other way around. And it wasn't until I was further along that I personally was able to ask my family, and they did end up investing a little bit, but yeah it's you know, for one, you know, my family didn't you know, come from the riches, so there is not that much money, but even then, like, I was not comfortable asking them Neha Sampat: Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from, it's interesting because as kind of the caretaker gender we feel a sense of responsibility of taking care of people and not imposing anything on them, and then there's just a sense of responsibility of being successful and ensuring that you are on a path to success before imposing anything on anyone else 208 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:58.770 Neha Sampat: So what were some of the alternative sources of funding that you did get access to? Debbie Chen: So funnily enough, as I was you know ,at the gym and working my butt off — I met some friends at the gym you know, they were also business owners and you know, they're also not you know, a high net worth individuals, but they understood what it takes to start a business, and I spoke to them about it and they became my first angel investors And I'm eternally grateful because, so what they invested was — first of all they're not technologists, they're not biomedical engineers, they don't understand, you know, the I mean they definitely understand the need from an athletic perspective, but not the technology side, — but what they invested in was my work ethic, because they saw me working day in, day out at the gym Right? So I think it's really interesting, you know, because you know, as an angel investor, like you invest in the founder, right? And they didn't even — this was an idea stage at that point and you know, now I have all data and prototypes and a team, and all this stuff but before I had an idea and they invested on my work ethic, right? So it's…yeah it's incredible. Neha Sampat: I think that's a really great lesson, I just want to kind of underscore that for our listeners. There's also part of it, that is being comfortable talking about your idea in a setting where that — you know, that it's like a little bit opportunistic. You're with people that maybe have the means to support you, but if you're not talking about it, they will never know, and it will never manifest into anything So some of it is — like I feel like there's a lot of early stage entrepreneurs that hold back and don't want to share their ideas, because they're afraid it'll get stolen, or you know, that's not a thing, like talk about it, because you never know who you're around and who might be able to actually lend Debbie Chen: Yeah, yeah, I mean everybody always says you're always pitching and I always thought — I found that kind of annoying to be like always pitching. What do you mean? But it really is right, because as a founder, like it's all encompassing You know, the last thing you think about when you go to bed is like all the things that are going on, are going right, and going wrong, and the first thing you wake up is like: oh yeah, like I have all these meetings. Snd so, you know, I think being able to speak to anybody, even at the grocery store, like “What do you do? How, you know — are you hydrating enough?” Whatever, right? Is helpful and you never know who you're going to bump into Neha Sampat: For sure. Well now, you obviously have a lot of passion for this, and that it's different when someone pitches with passion it's like authentic and genuine versus selling, and you're not selling, you're just talking about something you obviously believe in and I think that comes across a lot differently, too 25:32 228 00:28:44.610 --> 00:28:57.000 Neha Sampat: We had a guest on this show that talked about our duty and partially that's just as women and women that have taken the leap to transfer the knowledge, meaning that we don't all have to make the same mistakes to have an equally difficult path What are some of the unsaid things that you learned by just going through this process, and you know, what would you share with people that are maybe a step behind you? Debbie Chen: I think the most helpful thing — and it definitely wasn't overnight for me, and it's a constant work in progress — is self awareness There's like a deep need for really understanding yourself, and for me, it was like: Why do I respond this way to certain things, right? Maybe it's some sort of childhood traumatic experience, or maybe it's something that you've dealt with before Those things must annoy you enough about yourself that you go ahead and figure out like either you avoid them or you make them better or you figure out like why you act that way, at least for me that that made me much more relaxed and much, much more authentic now, because if you show up as yourself like i'm not your normal founder and I know that, but if you're comfortable in that like it shows right and it shows as confidence, right? And especially for diverse founders every single person has such unique experiences like if you're a caretaker from from a young age that's startup experience right like you can learn so much skill sets from there you're multitasking you're thinking about budgets you're like all of these things that you, you didn't put on your resume right. And so I just think that you know, the more that you understand about yourself and sort of have that sort of innate confidence, that you know, ‘I can do this’, right? And my question is always like “Hey, can somebody else do a better job than me for my company at this point in time?” right? And if the answer is no, then you should be the leader, yeah. Neha Sampat: Right, it's your responsibility to be the leader 242 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:13.650 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Exactly and that's. 243 00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:19.830 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Better for your company right So if you a lot of women think like oh yeah I want what's best for the company right. 244 00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:24.120 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And, and not so much like Oh, we must hold on to the ego. 245 00:31:25.260 --> 00:31:31.080 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: kind of thing but what's best for the company is you write your wellness and you need to get sleep. 246 00:31:31.530 --> 00:31:38.610 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And you need to eat, you need to exercise, you need to be well mentally and physically right that's what's best for your company, and I think. 247 00:31:38.820 --> 00:31:49.080 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: We take that a lot away from ourselves in our company sometimes like Oh, we have to work ourselves to the bones, and we don't need to sleep, you know and and that's not good for you or your company that's. 248 00:31:49.110 --> 00:31:56.070 Neha Sampat: really good advice, and I think the the follow on to that is that you're also setting an example for the people that work for you, with you. 249 00:31:56.280 --> 00:31:58.590 Neha Sampat: And it's important that they see that you actually are taking. 250 00:31:58.590 --> 00:31:59.370 Neha Sampat: Care of yourself. 251 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.030 Neha Sampat: Right, so that. 252 00:32:00.600 --> 00:32:01.740 Neha Sampat: They can as well. 253 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:11.910 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Exactly, I had a founder that actually asked you know, a group of women, you know how do I, you know build the culture, you know that we really you know. 254 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:26.280 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: don't work 90 hours a week right and they're like well we're right now we have a lot of milestones we've got to hit these things and and we have a short timeline so we're working 8090 hours a week and i'm in my head i'm like okay one you probably don't have children. 255 00:32:27.330 --> 00:32:32.070 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And to like they're looking to you to build a culture, so if you're working 90 hours a week. 256 00:32:32.490 --> 00:32:47.910 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And they, this is what they think they're expected right and you're probably driving them to burn out and you're probably going to burn out so you have to live that example in order for your employees to know that that's okay and that's what's expected. 29:25 257 00:32:48.540 --> 00:32:53.340 Neha Sampat: Absolutely, so I normally would move into rapid fire have one more question for you. 258 00:32:53.490 --> 00:32:56.460 Neha Sampat: Sure it's really just addressing a common theme that you've. 259 00:32:56.940 --> 00:33:11.460 Neha Sampat: talked about in your journey and that's that you refuse to be pigeonholed and maybe not really at first, but eventually in academia, they tried fundraising they tried, what would you say to our listeners, who are experiencing the same thing not quite being able to be themselves. 260 00:33:13.350 --> 00:33:23.520 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah, to be honest it's not something that I like said, I refuse to it's just it didn't work out, you know, like the way I tried to. 261 00:33:24.090 --> 00:33:31.920 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: mold myself into whatever mold they wanted and like it was extremely uncomfortable it wasn't you know, perhaps values aligned. 262 00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:41.850 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I was uncomfortable doing it that way, whether it was you know, a business model or or you know how to hire my employees or whatever it is right. 263 00:33:42.150 --> 00:33:55.950 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And so I eventually found my own way, that I was comfortable with that I was happy with, and my team is spectacular and so it's sort of just again being self aware and figure out what works for you and your company, and that makes your employees happy. 264 00:33:57.120 --> 00:34:06.300 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And you know and that's that's what it is like, would you my question to myself always is like, if I had a hard day it's like, would you be rather be working for another company. 265 00:34:06.810 --> 00:34:18.660 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And if the answer is no, then you're like Okay, I had a hard day right, but I would still rather be working for this company and this team and and and this product, and this vision right. 266 00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:27.960 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: So yeah I think that's that's it's like what makes you happy and comfortable and able to do your you know your dream. 267 00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:33.390 Neha Sampat: yeah do your best work be authentic and and be self aware, I think. 268 00:34:33.450 --> 00:34:34.260 Neha Sampat: Are the big thing. 31:12 269 00:34:34.740 --> 00:34:41.400 Neha Sampat: awesome okay i'm going to move into my for rapid fire questions, the first one of which is what's your wake up song. 270 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:52.770 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: I found that funny because I don't really have a wake up song, I have my five year old wakes me up every day he wakes me up around six or 630 every day so he's very excited to. 271 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:53.460 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: wake up. 272 00:34:54.780 --> 00:35:01.260 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: But I think there's a couple songs that come to mind one is my shot from Hamilton. 273 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:02.910 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: So that always like pumps. 274 00:35:02.910 --> 00:35:06.240 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: me up because i'm like yeah i'm gonna i'm not gonna miss my shot right. 275 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:18.150 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And, and then the second one is actually a garden song by Dave mallet it's an older song, but it really talks about the lyrics like inch inch by inch row by row. 276 00:35:18.870 --> 00:35:20.010 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: i'm gonna make this scarred and. 277 00:35:20.010 --> 00:35:22.770 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: grow right so it's kind of like the startup. 278 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.890 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: journey right like it's not overnight. 279 00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:32.670 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: You know, and you just do it, you know inch by inch day by day and you keep going and you. 280 00:35:32.850 --> 00:35:33.750 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: love the harvest. 281 00:35:35.610 --> 00:35:42.090 Neha Sampat: that's awesome if you're 19 year old self asked you what what should I read, which I listened to you what would you say. 282 00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:50.550 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: um I would say a lot of renee brown self awareness, a lot of sort of self empowerment. 283 00:35:52.110 --> 00:36:07.500 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: And yeah just like you know understanding how you feel what what actually is the definition of an emotion right like and really like shame right like shame her shame research has been so. 284 00:36:08.700 --> 00:36:10.050 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Life changing for me. 285 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.360 Neha Sampat: really good can you recommend a favorite beverage. 287 00:36:21.930 --> 00:36:31.620 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: To be honest, I just love playing water sometimes have flavored water or anything in the water, I feel like it's not quenching my thirst. 288 00:36:32.040 --> 00:36:37.980 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: um yeah I really just like regular water but yeah sounds I was really good, by the way. 289 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:47.160 Neha Sampat: It from a hydration perspective doesn't matter if it's if it's playing water carbonated like can you can you get hydration from carbonated water in the same way. 290 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.020 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: In general I think people just drink less of carbonated water, because it gets you full. 291 00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:57.600 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: um so that's yeah So for me if i'm really harsh I just need like regular. 292 00:36:57.600 --> 00:36:57.930 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: water. 293 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:06.930 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: But if you're an you know, an athlete and stuff like that definitely need some electrolytes if you're exercising for more than 60 minutes you need some carbs with those electrolytes. 294 00:37:08.100 --> 00:37:17.310 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: yeah so you know to me it's like if I need those, like any of those would work, but just day to day i'm just a big water. 295 00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:20.010 Neha Sampat: drinker I kind of knew, you were gonna say that. 296 00:37:21.750 --> 00:37:26.520 Neha Sampat: And the final question is What should our listeners do tomorrow to help them become Dreammakers? Debbie Chen: I think just experiencing things. So, meeting lots of different people, traveling, having fun. You know, Don't be afraid to do things that you think like “Oh, maybe I should be focused on school right now” right? Like go travel abroad, you know, go do all of these things because all of those experiences will build your, you know, whatever next endeavor, right? And so I think the more people that you meet, the different cultures have different backgrounds, the way people live eat different foods, like all of that is going to make you just like such a better person overall, that, I think you know, whatever you do after that I think is good, and then also just start, right? Like whatever it is, do the next thing. right? If you don't know what the final goal is going to look like, just do the next thing Neha Sampat: And then the next time Inch by inch. 304 00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:27.960 Exactly. 305 00:38:29.100 --> 00:38:37.590 Neha Sampat: amazing and thank you very much, this is a really fun conversation I enjoyed getting to know you and learning a lot from you and I appreciate you being on the show. 306 00:38:37.950 --> 00:38:40.260 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen: Thank you so much, I had so much fun.