1 01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:03,000 So Simon Hamp is back on the show last 2 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:03,916 time he was here. We talked 3 01:00:03,916 --> 01:00:06,250 about native PHP this time 4 01:00:06,250 --> 01:00:08,166 He's got a brand new thing native PHP 5 01:00:08,166 --> 01:00:10,125 iOS. So welcome back 6 01:00:10,125 --> 01:00:12,083 Simon. Thanks for having me Eric 7 01:00:12,125 --> 01:00:14,125 It's so good to be back. It's good to see 8 01:00:14,125 --> 01:00:18,291 you again. Yeah, you too. So I 9 01:00:18,291 --> 01:00:20,083 Think at first we thought native PHP was 10 01:00:20,083 --> 01:00:21,541 crazy and you're just like 11 01:00:21,541 --> 01:00:23,291 no that's not crazy enough 12 01:00:23,291 --> 01:00:26,000 So we're just gonna go full bore into 13 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,916 mobile development. So so 14 01:00:27,916 --> 01:00:28,666 how did this come about? 15 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000 Where do I begin? Well, I mean obviously 16 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,458 it starts with native PHP 17 01:00:35,041 --> 01:00:36,166 because none of this would 18 01:00:36,166 --> 01:00:38,333 have happened without that but 19 01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:42,625 Basically last year I was looking into I 20 01:00:42,625 --> 01:00:44,416 was looking into doing something that 21 01:00:44,416 --> 01:00:45,666 probably I shouldn't have 22 01:00:45,958 --> 01:00:48,333 Shouldn't do which is like how can I run? 23 01:00:49,083 --> 01:00:52,000 PHP without a web server behind it and 24 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:52,916 the reason for that was 25 01:00:52,916 --> 01:00:54,708 kind of like I'm looking into 26 01:00:54,708 --> 01:00:57,208 building all of this stuff for native PHP 27 01:00:57,208 --> 01:00:59,041 for the desktop stuff and 28 01:00:59,583 --> 01:01:02,791 And doing it without web servers and then 29 01:01:02,791 --> 01:01:04,000 it kind of dawned on me 30 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,375 I was like, you know, I think this is 31 01:01:06,375 --> 01:01:08,541 gonna work on a phone because 32 01:01:09,041 --> 01:01:11,083 Now we haven't got to run a web server. 33 01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:13,125 It's so I started investigating all of 34 01:01:13,125 --> 01:01:14,416 that and I'm like, oh 35 01:01:14,416 --> 01:01:15,583 actually I can't run 36 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,166 Like PHP as an a separate executable on 37 01:01:19,166 --> 01:01:21,125 the phone. So I start to investigate like 38 01:01:21,125 --> 01:01:22,625 how do I do this as a 39 01:01:23,166 --> 01:01:25,125 embeddable PHP and 40 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:27,708 And all these pieces just start to fall 41 01:01:27,708 --> 01:01:28,666 into place and then I'm 42 01:01:28,666 --> 01:01:29,958 like, do you know what? 43 01:01:29,958 --> 01:01:30,500 I think I'm gonna 44 01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:32,958 just hold here for a bit 45 01:01:32,958 --> 01:01:35,625 And I'll just seed a few people with the 46 01:01:35,625 --> 01:01:37,833 idea of like, maybe we can do this 47 01:01:37,833 --> 01:01:39,333 You know talk to Marcel about it 48 01:01:39,333 --> 01:01:41,708 I was like, I think we can do this and we 49 01:01:41,708 --> 01:01:43,333 were at Laricon US and I 50 01:01:43,333 --> 01:01:44,583 mentioned it to a few people 51 01:01:44,583 --> 01:01:46,000 There's some people in the community who 52 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,000 have been on at me like when is it gonna 53 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:48,958 be ready for mobile? 54 01:01:48,958 --> 01:01:49,708 And I'm like, oh 55 01:01:49,708 --> 01:01:52,666 And I said to them I think I've cracked 56 01:01:52,666 --> 01:01:53,500 it, you know, like I 57 01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:54,791 think we're we're nearly there 58 01:01:54,916 --> 01:01:55,666 and 59 01:01:56,291 --> 01:01:59,375 Coming back from Laricon US. I was like 60 01:01:59,875 --> 01:02:01,958 Well the the Laricon EU 61 01:02:03,166 --> 01:02:05,291 Call for papers, you know call for talks 62 01:02:05,291 --> 01:02:06,958 opened up and I was like, all right 63 01:02:06,958 --> 01:02:09,708 I'll just put a talk in like the really 64 01:02:10,458 --> 01:02:12,500 Smallest brief that I could write for a 65 01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:14,625 talk was like building mobile apps with 66 01:02:14,625 --> 01:02:17,458 PHP and then like months later 67 01:02:17,458 --> 01:02:19,500 I have completely forgot about it. I was 68 01:02:19,500 --> 01:02:20,458 just like, okay, I'm 69 01:02:20,458 --> 01:02:21,041 not gonna do anything 70 01:02:21,541 --> 01:02:23,666 I'm gonna wait till I hear if I get 71 01:02:23,666 --> 01:02:25,000 anything back on this talk 72 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,750 and if they say no, that's fine 73 01:02:26,750 --> 01:02:30,208 But to my surprise Kaneko came back to me 74 01:02:30,208 --> 01:02:31,333 like out of the blue 75 01:02:31,333 --> 01:02:32,166 a couple of months ago 76 01:02:32,166 --> 01:02:32,833 He was just like 77 01:02:32,833 --> 01:02:34,500 really like your talk idea 78 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,041 Do you still want to give 79 01:02:36,041 --> 01:02:37,791 it and I was like hell? Yes 80 01:02:37,791 --> 01:02:40,500 I want to give it but I haven't built any 81 01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:41,208 of the stuff that I 82 01:02:41,208 --> 01:02:42,250 said that was gonna build 83 01:02:42,250 --> 01:02:44,875 So now I've got to go and figure that out 84 01:02:44,875 --> 01:02:47,125 so I finally kind of knuckled down over 85 01:02:47,125 --> 01:02:49,416 like the holiday period and just 86 01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:51,208 Smashed out this thing and I was like 87 01:02:51,208 --> 01:02:53,375 couldn't believe that it actually worked 88 01:02:54,166 --> 01:02:56,875 And yeah, then I started sharing more and 89 01:02:56,875 --> 01:02:58,041 more stuff about it just 90 01:02:58,041 --> 01:02:59,458 like leading up to my talk 91 01:02:59,458 --> 01:03:01,458 so that's kind of how it came to life, 92 01:03:01,458 --> 01:03:03,291 it's probably been a 93 01:03:03,291 --> 01:03:05,458 year in the making and 94 01:03:05,458 --> 01:03:08,083 Quite a lot of work to get there. But 95 01:03:09,250 --> 01:03:14,000 Got the so yes you so basically he by 96 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,458 accepting the talk you had a deadline 97 01:03:15,458 --> 01:03:17,041 So at that yeah, it's had to get 98 01:03:17,041 --> 01:03:17,833 something done, right? 99 01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:20,041 Can echo got his whip out and started 100 01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:23,375 Giddy up 101 01:03:23,875 --> 01:03:25,166 that's funny, so 102 01:03:25,875 --> 01:03:27,875 As far as like the back end 103 01:03:27,875 --> 01:03:29,583 on on how this actually works 104 01:03:29,583 --> 01:03:33,000 So you write in PHP you can 105 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,333 use a lot of wire of course 106 01:03:34,333 --> 01:03:37,458 I guess CSS normal CSS like tailwind or 107 01:03:37,458 --> 01:03:39,916 something and then it compiles itself 108 01:03:39,916 --> 01:03:42,000 into an Xcode thing or 109 01:03:42,791 --> 01:03:45,750 I guess I don't know how that works like 110 01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:47,541 what what actually runs on iOS 111 01:03:48,583 --> 01:03:51,250 So it's an Xcode project that gets 112 01:03:51,791 --> 01:03:53,250 kind of bundled together 113 01:03:53,833 --> 01:03:56,291 But your your Laravel app gets kind of 114 01:03:56,291 --> 01:03:57,833 injected into the Xcode 115 01:03:57,833 --> 01:04:00,250 project and then I'm not like 116 01:04:00,750 --> 01:04:03,000 transpiling any PHP code into 117 01:04:03,333 --> 01:04:05,500 Swift or any other language. It's still 118 01:04:05,500 --> 01:04:08,000 running as PHP code. So 119 01:04:08,791 --> 01:04:12,625 Your actual Laravel project goes on to 120 01:04:12,625 --> 01:04:15,625 the phone and it runs as 121 01:04:15,666 --> 01:04:18,458 PHP would on the server kind of 122 01:04:19,250 --> 01:04:20,375 but on the phone 123 01:04:21,041 --> 01:04:23,916 so it's what's happening is the 124 01:04:24,333 --> 01:04:27,000 PHP engine has kind of been embedded into 125 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,875 the app and so when the app 126 01:04:28,875 --> 01:04:31,375 sees like you're asking it to 127 01:04:31,875 --> 01:04:34,166 Basically kind of make a request to PHP, 128 01:04:34,166 --> 01:04:35,583 you know, which Laravel 129 01:04:35,583 --> 01:04:37,541 does very very by default 130 01:04:38,541 --> 01:04:42,000 It kind of boots up the PHP engine runs 131 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,166 the whole Laravel application through the 132 01:04:44,166 --> 01:04:45,041 engine as it normally 133 01:04:45,041 --> 01:04:46,541 would and then just gets the 134 01:04:46,625 --> 01:04:49,916 HTML and the headers back and kind of 135 01:04:49,916 --> 01:04:52,416 injects all of that response into a web 136 01:04:52,416 --> 01:04:54,375 view and it does it without 137 01:04:55,250 --> 01:04:57,083 Without the web server I'm saying 138 01:04:57,083 --> 01:04:59,666 earlier. So there's no there's no 139 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,666 Processes that are sort of hanging around 140 01:05:01,666 --> 01:05:03,541 on the device trying waiting for 141 01:05:03,541 --> 01:05:04,833 requests. It literally just goes 142 01:05:04,875 --> 01:05:07,500 Oh, there's a you want this I'll spin all 143 01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:09,000 of that up and then finish 144 01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,083 that and then here you go 145 01:05:11,916 --> 01:05:12,583 which is 146 01:05:13,166 --> 01:05:15,125 Good, you know like for me that's cool 147 01:05:15,125 --> 01:05:17,541 because now I can take all my Laravel 148 01:05:17,541 --> 01:05:19,875 stuff and I can just do it on the phone 149 01:05:20,875 --> 01:05:22,875 But yeah, this it's not 150 01:05:23,791 --> 01:05:25,750 native in the sense of 151 01:05:26,250 --> 01:05:28,666 You know building a like native UI 152 01:05:28,666 --> 01:05:31,541 components yet, but it could get there 153 01:05:31,958 --> 01:05:32,125 Yeah 154 01:05:32,708 --> 01:05:33,833 what about 155 01:05:34,750 --> 01:05:37,250 I know you said it's sort of like bundles 156 01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:38,458 sort of a version of PHP. 157 01:05:38,708 --> 01:05:40,208 What about like a database like 158 01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:42,916 What's your idea there is 159 01:05:42,916 --> 01:05:44,125 is it gonna be able to like? 160 01:05:44,791 --> 01:05:47,333 Use whatever the iPhone storage is or 161 01:05:47,333 --> 01:05:49,083 you're just like doing more like API 162 01:05:49,083 --> 01:05:51,083 calls back to some other thing 163 01:05:51,541 --> 01:05:54,125 You you've got kind of choices there 164 01:05:54,125 --> 01:05:56,416 I think when when people think about 165 01:05:56,416 --> 01:05:58,541 Laravel they think I can connect to my 166 01:05:58,541 --> 01:06:00,041 sequel or Postgres or 167 01:06:00,041 --> 01:06:01,583 all these other drivers and 168 01:06:02,166 --> 01:06:04,291 But you have to kind of get into the 169 01:06:04,291 --> 01:06:05,750 mindset of I'm 170 01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:08,583 building a client application 171 01:06:08,583 --> 01:06:10,583 You know, my Laravel app is really a 172 01:06:10,583 --> 01:06:13,541 client to something else potentially 173 01:06:13,541 --> 01:06:14,333 I mean, it could be 174 01:06:14,333 --> 01:06:15,458 just completely standalone 175 01:06:15,875 --> 01:06:18,375 But if you're thinking, you know, I want 176 01:06:18,375 --> 01:06:20,458 to run Postgres somewhere 177 01:06:20,458 --> 01:06:22,458 Let's say like you've got a service 178 01:06:22,458 --> 01:06:23,625 running on Laravel cloud 179 01:06:24,500 --> 01:06:26,291 And you've got a Postgres database 180 01:06:26,708 --> 01:06:27,333 you 181 01:06:27,833 --> 01:06:30,000 Absolutely do not want to be connecting 182 01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,375 your client applications 183 01:06:32,375 --> 01:06:34,125 Which could be installed on hundreds or 184 01:06:34,125 --> 01:06:35,666 thousands of phones in 185 01:06:35,666 --> 01:06:38,500 theory all to that one database 186 01:06:39,125 --> 01:06:40,958 without any kind of 187 01:06:41,458 --> 01:06:43,375 intermediary so you'd want it to be going 188 01:06:43,375 --> 01:06:45,166 through an API that you've got 189 01:06:45,166 --> 01:06:47,291 authentication going on and you can 190 01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:50,458 Tell who's doing what and you know? 191 01:06:51,375 --> 01:06:53,750 give out tokens that you can expire and 192 01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:55,166 all of those kinds of things and just 193 01:06:55,166 --> 01:06:56,041 have like a good 194 01:06:56,041 --> 01:06:57,333 level of control that the 195 01:06:58,041 --> 01:07:00,125 Database server just won't give you by 196 01:07:00,125 --> 01:07:02,291 default without, you know a lot of work 197 01:07:02,750 --> 01:07:05,583 So in that scenario, you should pretty 198 01:07:05,583 --> 01:07:06,625 much always be thinking 199 01:07:06,625 --> 01:07:08,750 like it's going through an API 200 01:07:09,625 --> 01:07:12,625 But because it is just a file system 201 01:07:13,416 --> 01:07:16,833 On the phone you can have a like a sequel 202 01:07:16,833 --> 01:07:18,750 light database running on there and it 203 01:07:18,750 --> 01:07:20,166 comes with sequel light support 204 01:07:20,166 --> 01:07:21,958 so, you know, and Laravel's done a lot of 205 01:07:21,958 --> 01:07:23,625 work in the last couple of years to 206 01:07:24,208 --> 01:07:25,333 Make sequel light 207 01:07:25,333 --> 01:07:26,791 support like a real first-class 208 01:07:28,416 --> 01:07:30,166 supported solution, so 209 01:07:30,833 --> 01:07:33,250 It's actually great for that now and it 210 01:07:33,250 --> 01:07:35,000 works really really well. So you can have 211 01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,875 a local database that you're 212 01:07:38,250 --> 01:07:40,125 Updating with like eloquent models and 213 01:07:40,125 --> 01:07:40,833 you know using 214 01:07:40,833 --> 01:07:42,708 migrations and stuff on the device 215 01:07:42,708 --> 01:07:44,666 Which just feels like 216 01:07:44,666 --> 01:07:46,750 you're right at home in 217 01:07:46,916 --> 01:07:48,875 Classic Laravel world, which is great 218 01:07:49,583 --> 01:07:53,333 That's sweet. Uh, what about so 219 01:07:54,875 --> 01:07:56,541 What is like the best use case 220 01:07:57,500 --> 01:07:58,166 You know 221 01:07:58,750 --> 01:08:00,708 Sort of this is sort of my thinking the 222 01:08:00,708 --> 01:08:01,625 way you're kind of describing it 223 01:08:01,625 --> 01:08:04,083 Like it's never gonna be like you can 224 01:08:04,083 --> 01:08:05,000 never like build little 225 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:06,166 games or something with it 226 01:08:06,166 --> 01:08:08,791 But it's more like B2B apps 227 01:08:08,791 --> 01:08:11,208 things like that or is it? 228 01:08:12,083 --> 01:08:12,166 Hmm 229 01:08:13,666 --> 01:08:16,250 Yeah, what's your thoughts there the 230 01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:18,083 first app that is you know 231 01:08:18,083 --> 01:08:19,583 The app that I built that went through 232 01:08:19,583 --> 01:08:21,458 the App Store that Apple have approved 233 01:08:22,125 --> 01:08:24,916 Is a game technically. I mean, it's not 234 01:08:24,916 --> 01:08:25,625 like three-dimensional 235 01:08:26,583 --> 01:08:27,875 stuff but 236 01:08:29,166 --> 01:08:32,708 There's actually a project called PHP GL 237 01:08:34,125 --> 01:08:36,125 Something PHP GLFW or 238 01:08:36,125 --> 01:08:37,291 something like that and it's like 239 01:08:38,041 --> 01:08:40,000 They're trying to make open GL 240 01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,625 drivers in PHP and all of this 241 01:08:42,625 --> 01:08:44,833 so I can kind of see a point in the 242 01:08:44,833 --> 01:08:45,708 future where that 243 01:08:45,708 --> 01:08:47,333 could be possible because 244 01:08:47,750 --> 01:08:49,916 there's nothing really preventing you 245 01:08:49,916 --> 01:08:52,333 from connecting to the the hardware and 246 01:08:52,333 --> 01:08:53,375 running all of that 247 01:08:53,375 --> 01:08:54,541 kind of I mean, it's just 248 01:08:55,083 --> 01:08:57,833 More maths really, you know, like more 249 01:08:57,833 --> 01:08:59,125 calculations that happening 250 01:09:00,625 --> 01:09:01,833 But should you do that 251 01:09:01,833 --> 01:09:05,166 in PHP I don't know I 252 01:09:05,166 --> 01:09:07,083 Think people will definitely go we're 253 01:09:07,083 --> 01:09:07,583 trying to build a 254 01:09:07,583 --> 01:09:08,750 really performant game here 255 01:09:08,750 --> 01:09:11,375 Let's use like the proper frameworks that 256 01:09:11,375 --> 01:09:12,125 are available on the 257 01:09:12,125 --> 01:09:14,833 platforms whatever but yeah 258 01:09:15,625 --> 01:09:18,166 Business apps. I mean I can see like 259 01:09:18,166 --> 01:09:20,833 potentially businesses that have they've 260 01:09:20,833 --> 01:09:21,375 already got like 261 01:09:21,375 --> 01:09:22,625 their service like a sass 262 01:09:22,666 --> 01:09:27,000 And then they want this kind of side car 263 01:09:27,791 --> 01:09:28,791 Application that's 264 01:09:28,791 --> 01:09:30,375 installable on the phones 265 01:09:31,291 --> 01:09:33,250 So, you know, they might not ever 266 01:09:33,833 --> 01:09:36,166 Sell that app through the store. They 267 01:09:36,166 --> 01:09:37,958 might not ever do anything that kind of 268 01:09:37,958 --> 01:09:40,166 directly generates revenue from that app 269 01:09:40,291 --> 01:09:41,250 But you know, it's a 270 01:09:41,250 --> 01:09:43,416 feature of their entire platform 271 01:09:44,250 --> 01:09:45,333 And then you know 272 01:09:45,333 --> 01:09:47,333 You could get going basically if you had 273 01:09:47,333 --> 01:09:49,250 a team of like one or 274 01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:50,250 two Laravel developers 275 01:09:50,541 --> 01:09:52,833 And he didn't want to invest in hiring 276 01:09:52,833 --> 01:09:55,541 like Swift developers and Kotlin 277 01:09:55,541 --> 01:09:57,916 developers or react native developers 278 01:09:58,458 --> 01:10:00,083 You got a team now that 279 01:10:00,083 --> 01:10:01,958 can build a native app still 280 01:10:02,458 --> 01:10:03,333 with their 281 01:10:03,958 --> 01:10:05,791 Existing Laravel skills, which I think is 282 01:10:05,791 --> 01:10:08,000 super powerful and and cool 283 01:10:09,708 --> 01:10:11,666 But I do think another thing is like 284 01:10:11,666 --> 01:10:14,416 people just have these ideas, you know 285 01:10:14,416 --> 01:10:16,541 They I've talked to friends over the last 286 01:10:16,541 --> 01:10:18,208 few weeks and they're like I've had this 287 01:10:18,208 --> 01:10:19,333 idea for an app and it's like 288 01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:20,625 Yeah, but you know 289 01:10:20,625 --> 01:10:23,333 You don't really know how to code and you 290 01:10:23,333 --> 01:10:25,041 don't know how you're gonna have to learn 291 01:10:25,041 --> 01:10:26,000 all these languages and 292 01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:27,750 tools and things and it's like 293 01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,583 I can't build it for them because I 294 01:10:29,583 --> 01:10:30,541 didn't know Swift and I 295 01:10:30,541 --> 01:10:31,666 didn't know these other languages 296 01:10:31,666 --> 01:10:36,125 But now I can because I already know like 297 01:10:36,125 --> 01:10:38,166 Laravel and PHP so I can just go 298 01:10:38,166 --> 01:10:40,208 Oh, actually, let me just you know and a 299 01:10:40,208 --> 01:10:42,083 day later. It's like here's your app 300 01:10:43,916 --> 01:10:45,333 That's quite cool. I 301 01:10:45,333 --> 01:10:46,250 think that's gonna be 302 01:10:46,916 --> 01:10:49,208 Empowering people to kind of try new 303 01:10:49,208 --> 01:10:51,166 stuff out and bring new 304 01:10:51,166 --> 01:10:52,583 ideas to life. Hopefully 305 01:10:53,333 --> 01:10:55,000 Yes, I think that'll be great 306 01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,541 I was you know, I was just thinking my 307 01:10:56,541 --> 01:10:58,125 own use case like it'd be sweet just to 308 01:10:58,125 --> 01:10:59,458 have a little little news app 309 01:10:59,750 --> 01:11:01,708 OS app, I don't know 310 01:11:01,708 --> 01:11:02,833 who would download it 311 01:11:02,833 --> 01:11:04,500 But you know it would be neat to have 312 01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:06,375 that as an option at some point, you know 313 01:11:06,875 --> 01:11:09,000 Or a golf app. It's like no, you've 314 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,375 probably got loads of good golf apps 315 01:11:10,916 --> 01:11:12,416 You know, I don't know 316 01:11:12,916 --> 01:11:16,333 It would be cooler to to hook into we've 317 01:11:16,333 --> 01:11:16,958 actually made another 318 01:11:16,958 --> 01:11:18,083 buddy talked about this before 319 01:11:18,083 --> 01:11:20,750 It's like have an iOS app where we can 320 01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:22,041 like video your swing 321 01:11:22,041 --> 01:11:24,250 and then we hook into like 322 01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:27,166 Chat GPT or one of the AI stuff and it's 323 01:11:27,166 --> 01:11:28,791 like this is what you're doing wrong 324 01:11:28,791 --> 01:11:30,000 You should probably work on you know 325 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,291 Here's some training aids and something 326 01:11:32,291 --> 01:11:33,583 like that might be kind of cool and you 327 01:11:33,583 --> 01:11:34,541 could probably do that 328 01:11:34,541 --> 01:11:35,541 through something like this 329 01:11:35,541 --> 01:11:36,583 Because it would just be 330 01:11:36,583 --> 01:11:38,333 connecting through API's 331 01:11:38,583 --> 01:11:41,000 Yeah, I guess because I did see you take 332 01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:42,291 a picture on on stage 333 01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:44,250 So it's definitely possible to hook into 334 01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:46,000 the camera, right? Uh-huh 335 01:11:46,375 --> 01:11:47,833 I mean videos are different beasts 336 01:11:47,833 --> 01:11:50,083 but I think what you know what you're 337 01:11:50,083 --> 01:11:51,375 talking about is essentially like you 338 01:11:51,375 --> 01:11:52,833 capture a bit of video and 339 01:11:52,833 --> 01:11:54,375 then you want your app to 340 01:11:54,500 --> 01:11:56,958 take that file and 341 01:11:57,333 --> 01:11:58,875 Automatically sort of process it through 342 01:11:58,875 --> 01:12:00,291 some other API and get some 343 01:12:00,291 --> 01:12:02,000 data back, you know, it's like 344 01:12:02,791 --> 01:12:03,833 Yeah, you could like 345 01:12:03,833 --> 01:12:06,375 that's just very basic web API 346 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,416 Interaction stuff so you could totally do 347 01:12:09,416 --> 01:12:10,416 that with Laravel now 348 01:12:10,416 --> 01:12:12,750 and that's very very cool 349 01:12:13,375 --> 01:12:14,625 Potential stuff that 350 01:12:14,625 --> 01:12:16,000 could come from this. Yeah 351 01:12:16,416 --> 01:12:19,083 Yeah, I agree and well even you know, 352 01:12:19,083 --> 01:12:20,291 talking about more sale and beyond code, 353 01:12:20,291 --> 01:12:21,291 you know having a tinker 354 01:12:21,291 --> 01:12:22,208 well on your phone that 355 01:12:22,208 --> 01:12:23,833 That could be kind of interesting. I 356 01:12:23,833 --> 01:12:25,208 don't know what you do with it, but you 357 01:12:25,208 --> 01:12:26,375 could play around with PHP 358 01:12:26,375 --> 01:12:27,875 You know as you're as 359 01:12:27,875 --> 01:12:28,500 you're doing something 360 01:12:29,041 --> 01:12:32,416 Yeah, or or more of like an iPad app or 361 01:12:32,416 --> 01:12:34,458 something. I don't know but but yeah, 362 01:12:34,458 --> 01:12:35,416 that's that's very cool 363 01:12:35,458 --> 01:12:37,958 So, so what do you think I know right now 364 01:12:37,958 --> 01:12:41,333 you're iOS only but you do have it that 365 01:12:41,333 --> 01:12:42,916 you're trying to get the Android 366 01:12:43,958 --> 01:12:46,166 Anything else like big that you're 367 01:12:46,166 --> 01:12:48,166 wanting to get done before 368 01:12:48,166 --> 01:12:50,791 before the first release. I 369 01:12:50,791 --> 01:12:52,791 Mean, there's loads of API is that I want 370 01:12:52,791 --> 01:12:53,666 to you know, I'm 371 01:12:53,666 --> 01:12:55,166 working on getting working 372 01:12:56,125 --> 01:12:58,291 so that they're usable and 373 01:12:58,916 --> 01:13:00,875 One of the things I didn't get to do 374 01:13:00,875 --> 01:13:01,750 before my talk which 375 01:13:01,750 --> 01:13:03,250 I hoped I'd have time 376 01:13:03,291 --> 01:13:04,833 But didn't was to kind of 377 01:13:04,833 --> 01:13:06,041 wrap it all up in the nice 378 01:13:06,291 --> 01:13:09,000 We've got quite a nice API now for native 379 01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,083 PHP for the desktop stuff and like the 380 01:13:11,083 --> 01:13:12,583 packages are kind of 381 01:13:12,583 --> 01:13:14,625 stable and all of that 382 01:13:14,791 --> 01:13:16,625 So I want to bring some of that stability 383 01:13:16,625 --> 01:13:19,041 across to this kind of straight away 384 01:13:19,041 --> 01:13:20,208 so we get all of that for 385 01:13:20,208 --> 01:13:22,875 free in some respects and 386 01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:25,416 You know, it'll be nice then to have this 387 01:13:25,416 --> 01:13:28,041 you'll have like ID support and all of 388 01:13:28,041 --> 01:13:29,250 the IntelliSense things 389 01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:30,208 are gonna be nice and working 390 01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:33,916 Yeah, I mean I showed off some of the 391 01:13:33,916 --> 01:13:35,916 camera stuff but there's a bit of work to 392 01:13:35,916 --> 01:13:36,541 do to make that 393 01:13:36,541 --> 01:13:38,166 really smooth and get video 394 01:13:38,166 --> 01:13:40,625 And all of those things going but I think 395 01:13:40,625 --> 01:13:41,833 some of those things definitely 396 01:13:42,041 --> 01:13:43,916 But there's a couple of things that come 397 01:13:43,916 --> 01:13:46,041 to the top of the list for people always 398 01:13:46,041 --> 01:13:48,375 push notifications is one 399 01:13:49,333 --> 01:13:50,708 because people basically 400 01:13:50,708 --> 01:13:52,250 people want to be able to 401 01:13:52,458 --> 01:13:55,125 Make the the thing kind of remotely 402 01:13:55,125 --> 01:13:56,958 sensitive to the stuff that's happening 403 01:13:56,958 --> 01:13:57,708 in their application 404 01:13:58,416 --> 01:13:59,291 Environment elsewhere 405 01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:01,041 which makes perfect sense 406 01:14:01,708 --> 01:14:05,416 And another one is in-app purchases. I I 407 01:14:05,416 --> 01:14:07,458 haven't ever looked into stuff like that 408 01:14:07,458 --> 01:14:08,833 before but I think it would be 409 01:14:09,416 --> 01:14:11,791 really cool if you could have a 410 01:14:11,791 --> 01:14:14,500 Laravel app that somebody can go into and 411 01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:16,625 they can just trigger like the you know 412 01:14:16,625 --> 01:14:19,500 Apple pay to purchase something and and 413 01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:21,125 that flow just does what it 414 01:14:21,125 --> 01:14:22,500 does and then I don't know 415 01:14:22,500 --> 01:14:24,291 Maybe it unlocks something in your app or 416 01:14:24,291 --> 01:14:25,791 maybe it's like taking an 417 01:14:25,791 --> 01:14:27,291 order for fast food restaurant 418 01:14:27,625 --> 01:14:28,916 who knows but 419 01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:32,041 Kind of the fact that that then could be 420 01:14:32,041 --> 01:14:33,625 done in Laravel is just 421 01:14:33,625 --> 01:14:35,583 super cool and opens the door to 422 01:14:35,875 --> 01:14:38,291 You know people businesses generating 423 01:14:38,291 --> 01:14:40,083 revenue off of this thing, which is 424 01:14:40,083 --> 01:14:41,875 awesome. So I'd really 425 01:14:41,875 --> 01:14:44,166 like to get that done 426 01:14:45,583 --> 01:14:47,500 But yeah, there's just so much more 427 01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:49,333 there's loads and loads of stuff that I 428 01:14:49,333 --> 01:14:50,833 want to do this is so cool 429 01:14:51,833 --> 01:14:54,416 So so that that does sort of bring 430 01:14:54,416 --> 01:14:56,291 another question in as far as like when 431 01:14:56,291 --> 01:14:57,875 you're developing locally 432 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,791 You can since it's PHP 433 01:15:00,875 --> 01:15:03,416 You can just run like PHP unit pass 434 01:15:03,625 --> 01:15:05,625 Sort of the whole normal testing suite or 435 01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:07,916 you have to like get fancier with how 436 01:15:07,916 --> 01:15:09,416 you're gonna test all this stuff 437 01:15:09,833 --> 01:15:12,750 No, so obviously when you're talking 438 01:15:12,750 --> 01:15:13,250 about like 439 01:15:13,250 --> 01:15:15,375 potentially hitting native APIs 440 01:15:15,916 --> 01:15:19,000 They're not going to be available if 441 01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,666 you're just running your test suite in 442 01:15:20,666 --> 01:15:22,000 the terminal because 443 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,500 you're not running on the device 444 01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:26,291 you're not testing on a real device, but 445 01:15:26,875 --> 01:15:28,666 We already have that again in 446 01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:30,333 native PHP for desktop where 447 01:15:31,208 --> 01:15:33,000 You might not be running all of your 448 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,125 tests inside the browser and you know 449 01:15:35,125 --> 01:15:36,541 kind of the web view environment 450 01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:41,291 of electron and so we we basically have a 451 01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:42,958 whole bunch of mocks and 452 01:15:42,958 --> 01:15:45,208 you know fakes that can 453 01:15:45,625 --> 01:15:48,625 Swap in at test time. So yeah, it's not 454 01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:49,208 it's not going to be 455 01:15:49,208 --> 01:15:50,375 testing the real stuff 456 01:15:50,375 --> 01:15:52,000 But it's not going to prevent you from 457 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:52,916 having really 458 01:15:52,916 --> 01:15:55,125 reasonable tests against those 459 01:15:55,250 --> 01:15:56,875 Apis and kind of what your 460 01:15:56,875 --> 01:15:58,500 expectations are going to be 461 01:15:59,125 --> 01:16:01,333 That's coming through really well and a 462 01:16:01,333 --> 01:16:03,000 lot of that's been thanks to 463 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:04,416 contributors, you know 464 01:16:05,208 --> 01:16:06,916 Giving of their time and making that 465 01:16:06,916 --> 01:16:07,791 stuff because I haven't 466 01:16:07,791 --> 01:16:08,750 had the time to do that 467 01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:09,833 So, you know 468 01:16:09,875 --> 01:16:12,541 I think at least to that side of things 469 01:16:12,541 --> 01:16:14,750 the communities really come forward and 470 01:16:14,750 --> 01:16:15,875 kind of helped make all 471 01:16:15,875 --> 01:16:16,791 of that possible and I 472 01:16:16,791 --> 01:16:19,291 Think we can take a lot of the principles 473 01:16:19,291 --> 01:16:21,000 of that and bring it over to the iOS 474 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,375 stuff as well. Definitely. No, no doubt 475 01:16:24,333 --> 01:16:24,541 sweet 476 01:16:25,583 --> 01:16:28,875 another question is there any 477 01:16:30,208 --> 01:16:32,541 Sort of performance implications for 478 01:16:32,541 --> 01:16:36,458 using native iOS versus I guess Swift 479 01:16:36,666 --> 01:16:39,458 I assume there might be but yeah, is it 480 01:16:39,458 --> 01:16:40,708 super noticeable or is 481 01:16:40,708 --> 01:16:41,833 it still pretty quick and 482 01:16:43,208 --> 01:16:46,083 I I think it's noticeable because I'm 483 01:16:46,083 --> 01:16:48,083 maybe a bit more sensitive to that 484 01:16:50,458 --> 01:16:52,625 Basically like understanding what's going 485 01:16:52,625 --> 01:16:54,541 on under the hood helps here so 486 01:16:55,041 --> 01:16:58,375 for every request that you expect your 487 01:16:58,375 --> 01:17:00,625 Laravel application to kind of 488 01:17:00,791 --> 01:17:02,375 handle and respond to 489 01:17:03,375 --> 01:17:05,041 We've got to boot PHP up 490 01:17:05,041 --> 01:17:06,166 completely from scratch 491 01:17:06,166 --> 01:17:07,916 I mean, it's not even like on a web 492 01:17:07,916 --> 01:17:10,500 server where you might have 493 01:17:10,541 --> 01:17:12,625 op cache, you know or 494 01:17:14,125 --> 01:17:17,208 Processes like in PHP FPM in engine X I 495 01:17:17,208 --> 01:17:19,000 don't get to tell you but you know, you 496 01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,000 have processes that are just there 497 01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:22,041 They're ready. They're 498 01:17:22,041 --> 01:17:24,125 waiting to serve requests 499 01:17:24,125 --> 01:17:27,041 And so when a request comes into the web 500 01:17:27,041 --> 01:17:29,708 server it goes which one of you is free 501 01:17:30,166 --> 01:17:32,250 Do this thing and because it's already 502 01:17:32,250 --> 01:17:34,083 there and waiting it's kind 503 01:17:34,083 --> 01:17:36,250 of super fast in this world 504 01:17:36,250 --> 01:17:38,666 We can't spin up processes and have them 505 01:17:38,666 --> 01:17:39,958 just waiting around for 506 01:17:39,958 --> 01:17:41,500 the user to do some stuff 507 01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:45,125 So we literally have to spin PHP up right 508 01:17:45,125 --> 01:17:46,916 from the beginning on every single 509 01:17:46,916 --> 01:17:48,291 request at the moment 510 01:17:49,375 --> 01:17:51,791 Which you know, like there is just 511 01:17:51,791 --> 01:17:54,083 overhead to doing that every time 512 01:17:55,041 --> 01:17:56,125 There's some things that 513 01:17:56,125 --> 01:17:57,250 we can do to speed that up 514 01:17:58,041 --> 01:18:00,750 I do think we can get up cache going at 515 01:18:00,750 --> 01:18:03,625 some point and I think I already started 516 01:18:03,625 --> 01:18:05,208 exploring some of the 517 01:18:06,166 --> 01:18:10,166 Putting pH 3 PHP in a thread on the 518 01:18:10,166 --> 01:18:12,625 device, which you know swift and and this 519 01:18:12,625 --> 01:18:13,583 they can all support 520 01:18:14,083 --> 01:18:15,166 multi-threaded 521 01:18:15,833 --> 01:18:19,833 applications so in theory at least it 522 01:18:19,833 --> 01:18:22,375 could be possible to have like the PHP 523 01:18:22,791 --> 01:18:24,583 Process just kind of it's not processed 524 01:18:24,583 --> 01:18:27,416 but the the engine just like primed and 525 01:18:27,416 --> 01:18:28,208 ready, you know, like 526 01:18:28,208 --> 01:18:29,416 kind of ticking over 527 01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,583 Waiting for the next request and then and 528 01:18:33,583 --> 01:18:35,083 then it will be a lot lot faster 529 01:18:35,583 --> 01:18:38,416 but I will say like right now it's not 530 01:18:39,333 --> 01:18:41,708 It's not too slow. It's not like you tap 531 01:18:41,708 --> 01:18:43,125 the button and then you're like 532 01:18:43,708 --> 01:18:46,125 You know waiting for something to happen 533 01:18:46,416 --> 01:18:48,875 It does react quite quickly 534 01:18:48,875 --> 01:18:51,291 But it is a bit I will say it's a bit 535 01:18:51,291 --> 01:18:52,500 slower than you know 536 01:18:52,500 --> 01:18:54,750 If you've got native UI and you've got 537 01:18:54,750 --> 01:18:56,875 it's just running native code directly 538 01:18:56,875 --> 01:18:58,250 because well you've 539 01:18:58,250 --> 01:18:59,375 got all this extra stuff 540 01:18:59,375 --> 01:19:00,375 that's happening so 541 01:19:00,375 --> 01:19:02,958 yeah, it probably adds like a 542 01:19:03,333 --> 01:19:06,625 150 to 300 milliseconds to the whole 543 01:19:06,625 --> 01:19:08,958 thing which you know on occasions it can 544 01:19:08,958 --> 01:19:09,958 feel a little bit slow 545 01:19:10,666 --> 01:19:14,250 Gotcha, yeah, it sort of reminds me of 546 01:19:14,250 --> 01:19:15,791 you remember the old day. Well, you're 547 01:19:15,791 --> 01:19:16,458 probably not old enough 548 01:19:16,458 --> 01:19:17,541 to know the old days but 549 01:19:17,541 --> 01:19:24,583 So the old days with you know, we were we 550 01:19:24,583 --> 01:19:26,000 would build web apps and it was like 551 01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:26,958 Oh, you've got a you've 552 01:19:26,958 --> 01:19:28,166 got to compress all this down 553 01:19:28,166 --> 01:19:30,125 You know the extra 10 kilobytes is gonna 554 01:19:30,125 --> 01:19:31,291 dial up, you know, you 555 01:19:31,291 --> 01:19:32,333 would check you would have to 556 01:19:32,625 --> 01:19:34,541 You know toggle the the thing in your 557 01:19:34,541 --> 01:19:35,791 browser to simulate 558 01:19:35,791 --> 01:19:37,166 dial up and all that stuff 559 01:19:37,208 --> 01:19:40,208 It's like, you know now it's like if you 560 01:19:40,208 --> 01:19:44,000 know if my if even on my cell like only 561 01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:45,291 just being on the browser 562 01:19:45,291 --> 01:19:46,916 It's like it's still quick. It's crazy 563 01:19:46,916 --> 01:19:48,375 how much faster everything it's just 564 01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:50,833 gotten over the years. So that's 565 01:19:52,083 --> 01:19:53,875 So, you know hundred to three hundred 566 01:19:53,875 --> 01:19:55,708 milliseconds probably is not that bad 567 01:19:56,083 --> 01:19:58,041 For now, I should be building 568 01:19:58,583 --> 01:20:01,625 People who are used to building stuff on 569 01:20:01,625 --> 01:20:04,166 I you know, like on an iPhone that iPhone 570 01:20:04,166 --> 01:20:05,583 app developers will go 571 01:20:05,666 --> 01:20:08,125 Oh, man, this is slow, you know because 572 01:20:08,125 --> 01:20:09,625 they're so used to be 573 01:20:09,625 --> 01:20:11,000 it being instantaneous 574 01:20:12,458 --> 01:20:14,166 Especially when you're not making network 575 01:20:14,166 --> 01:20:16,000 requests, you know, we're not going out 576 01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,541 to the network. So it 577 01:20:17,541 --> 01:20:18,791 should be really fast 578 01:20:19,500 --> 01:20:23,000 but my kind of counter to it is this is 579 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,000 very early stage and 580 01:20:25,500 --> 01:20:26,541 We'll get there 581 01:20:26,541 --> 01:20:29,458 I think it's never going to be as fast as 582 01:20:29,458 --> 01:20:32,416 truly native because it just can't be 583 01:20:32,416 --> 01:20:34,625 there's too many layers of stuff going on 584 01:20:34,666 --> 01:20:36,458 In between but I think we 585 01:20:36,458 --> 01:20:39,166 can we can squeeze it down 586 01:20:39,791 --> 01:20:43,583 So that it's almost as good as and I 587 01:20:43,583 --> 01:20:45,791 think it's good enough right now 588 01:20:45,791 --> 01:20:47,875 And I think that's fine for 589 01:20:47,875 --> 01:20:49,041 a lot of use cases, you know 590 01:20:49,041 --> 01:20:50,833 I think there's a lot of a lot of 591 01:20:50,833 --> 01:20:52,541 businesses a lot of agencies 592 01:20:52,541 --> 01:20:54,333 that will find that very very 593 01:20:54,750 --> 01:20:56,458 acceptable, you know, so 594 01:20:57,458 --> 01:20:58,333 Hopefully anyway 595 01:20:59,291 --> 01:21:01,083 Yeah, that makes sense. 596 01:21:01,083 --> 01:21:02,875 That's perfect sense. Um, so 597 01:21:03,666 --> 01:21:07,250 Any features or anything that I did not 598 01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:09,125 ask you about that you want to make sure 599 01:21:09,125 --> 01:21:10,250 we get covered on this 600 01:21:11,208 --> 01:21:12,791 Yeah, I mean I guess one of 601 01:21:12,791 --> 01:21:14,791 the things that I have been 602 01:21:15,416 --> 01:21:17,000 thinking about and I was talking about 603 01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,083 with somebody yesterday even is 604 01:21:20,375 --> 01:21:24,125 The whole ecosystem of of building stuff 605 01:21:25,500 --> 01:21:28,958 Like mobile apps along with a server 606 01:21:28,958 --> 01:21:30,458 based application, you know 607 01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:32,500 And this kind of you're building all of 608 01:21:32,500 --> 01:21:34,083 these tools and you fit them all together 609 01:21:34,083 --> 01:21:35,833 and they're all in different things 610 01:21:35,833 --> 01:21:36,666 You know, you might have 611 01:21:36,666 --> 01:21:38,500 react native mobile apps 612 01:21:38,500 --> 01:21:40,750 So you can do it cross-platform on iPhone 613 01:21:40,750 --> 01:21:43,000 and Android and then maybe on the server 614 01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,666 You've got Laravel and 615 01:21:44,666 --> 01:21:46,041 maybe some other bits and pieces 616 01:21:46,041 --> 01:21:47,500 But generally, you know, you're 617 01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:49,958 communicating with like a Laravel API and 618 01:21:49,958 --> 01:21:51,208 I just I've always felt 619 01:21:51,208 --> 01:21:52,208 I've done that for years 620 01:21:52,208 --> 01:21:54,333 And I've always felt it's a little bit 621 01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:56,208 disjointed because not only 622 01:21:56,208 --> 01:21:56,833 if you're gonna have these 623 01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,666 teams of different people 624 01:21:58,666 --> 01:21:59,916 with different skills and 625 01:21:59,916 --> 01:22:01,416 you've got to come up with these 626 01:22:01,416 --> 01:22:03,541 mechanisms for these systems to 627 01:22:03,541 --> 01:22:04,791 communicate with each other and you've 628 01:22:04,791 --> 01:22:06,333 got to document all of that stuff and 629 01:22:06,333 --> 01:22:08,583 You you've got people doing diagrams and 630 01:22:08,583 --> 01:22:10,416 writing docs and it's going out of date 631 01:22:10,416 --> 01:22:13,750 and you know, all of the things I 632 01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:15,291 Think having Laravel on 633 01:22:15,291 --> 01:22:17,041 both sides of the equation 634 01:22:17,375 --> 01:22:19,625 Really has the potential to unlock 635 01:22:19,625 --> 01:22:22,125 something incredible that I don't I don't 636 01:22:22,125 --> 01:22:23,875 see many people talking about 637 01:22:23,875 --> 01:22:25,208 maybe I'm being ignorant but 638 01:22:25,875 --> 01:22:29,375 Where you you just forget about the API 639 01:22:29,375 --> 01:22:31,375 all together and these things just click 640 01:22:31,375 --> 01:22:32,791 together and they just work 641 01:22:32,791 --> 01:22:35,625 So you can just go I install this package 642 01:22:35,625 --> 01:22:37,416 over here in my iPhone app 643 01:22:37,875 --> 01:22:40,000 And I install kind of the counter version 644 01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,083 of that for the server on the server app 645 01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:45,166 And now they can just talk to each other 646 01:22:45,166 --> 01:22:48,666 like securely like best practice safe and 647 01:22:48,666 --> 01:22:50,416 everything and syncing data 648 01:22:50,416 --> 01:22:52,416 You know between the two and you're just 649 01:22:52,416 --> 01:22:53,750 using eloquent on both sides 650 01:22:53,791 --> 01:22:55,583 And you're just like you don't even care 651 01:22:55,583 --> 01:22:57,833 like is it talking to the API or is it 652 01:22:57,833 --> 01:22:58,875 talking to the local database? 653 01:22:59,625 --> 01:23:01,250 I don't know. It doesn't matter because 654 01:23:01,250 --> 01:23:02,583 it just works, you know 655 01:23:02,583 --> 01:23:05,708 It's like I've never had it that easy and 656 01:23:05,708 --> 01:23:06,666 I think that I meant 657 01:23:06,666 --> 01:23:08,291 like this far away from 658 01:23:08,375 --> 01:23:11,750 Doing something like that and I just that 659 01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:13,416 feels to me like a killer 660 01:23:14,125 --> 01:23:16,666 opportunity to tap into for people 661 01:23:17,875 --> 01:23:20,291 So like I see this is like 662 01:23:20,291 --> 01:23:23,416 a Foundational technology, you know getting 663 01:23:23,416 --> 01:23:24,541 these pieces to work 664 01:23:24,958 --> 01:23:26,583 But then the real stuff is when you can 665 01:23:26,583 --> 01:23:29,291 go these all things fit together. So 666 01:23:29,291 --> 01:23:31,375 that's gonna be really cool 667 01:23:32,208 --> 01:23:33,833 Yeah, that's gonna be it's it's gonna be 668 01:23:33,833 --> 01:23:35,833 powerful. I you know the 669 01:23:36,625 --> 01:23:39,125 Feedback I've seen just on the native PHP 670 01:23:40,375 --> 01:23:41,750 original is 671 01:23:42,166 --> 01:23:44,666 Super positive and everybody seems to 672 01:23:44,666 --> 01:23:46,791 like like it outside of a couple 673 01:23:47,375 --> 01:23:49,000 of 674 01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,208 Community places that I'd rarely visit 675 01:23:52,458 --> 01:23:54,000 But all the feedback 676 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:55,791 I've heard it really good 677 01:23:57,541 --> 01:24:00,958 Tons of potential I 678 01:24:00,958 --> 01:24:02,666 Like that when you said native PHP 679 01:24:02,666 --> 01:24:05,125 original it made me think of Pringles 680 01:24:06,583 --> 01:24:09,208 This is the you got desktop was like the 681 01:24:09,208 --> 01:24:10,416 red tube of Pringles 682 01:24:10,750 --> 01:24:12,708 What should the what 683 01:24:12,708 --> 01:24:13,708 should the mobile one be? 684 01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:16,833 Sour cream and onion because it's got you 685 01:24:16,833 --> 01:24:18,041 got the green in the 686 01:24:21,250 --> 01:24:23,625 That's good, I like I was thinking maybe 687 01:24:23,625 --> 01:24:26,375 like the what's the spicy one or paprika 688 01:24:26,375 --> 01:24:28,416 or something, you know 689 01:24:28,416 --> 01:24:29,750 We might not have those here in America 690 01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:32,000 or I've not seen those it's I've seen 691 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,208 it's the basic version of Pringles 692 01:24:33,208 --> 01:24:35,041 It's like playing barbecue 693 01:24:35,041 --> 01:24:37,458 sour cream and salt vinegar. No 694 01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,791 You're missing out to get you need to get 695 01:24:40,791 --> 01:24:42,000 into European shores 696 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,333 and try a paprika Pringles 697 01:24:44,333 --> 01:24:49,041 You know, it's this is Tony I'm the 698 01:24:49,041 --> 01:24:50,250 subject but Paul that 699 01:24:50,625 --> 01:24:51,666 You know does a lot of 700 01:24:51,666 --> 01:24:52,500 writing on the liberal news 701 01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:54,625 He's he's one of these chip connoisseurs 702 01:24:54,625 --> 01:24:56,083 and he just tries to 703 01:24:56,083 --> 01:24:57,041 find the wildest chips 704 01:24:57,041 --> 01:24:58,875 He can find it eats them and I'm like, 705 01:24:58,875 --> 01:25:01,583 it's like ketchup and you 706 01:25:01,583 --> 01:25:02,708 know pickle ketchup. I'm like 707 01:25:03,250 --> 01:25:04,125 None of that 708 01:25:04,125 --> 01:25:09,333 In the UK there was like one of the 709 01:25:09,333 --> 01:25:10,583 common flavors, you know 710 01:25:10,583 --> 01:25:12,416 I mean you get them bolty pack flavor of 711 01:25:12,416 --> 01:25:15,125 crisps, you know, and it's got salt and 712 01:25:15,125 --> 01:25:17,666 vinegar and it's got the salt it you know 713 01:25:17,666 --> 01:25:18,250 and just 714 01:25:18,708 --> 01:25:21,750 Cheese and onion and then the one was 715 01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:24,125 always in there was prawn cocktail 716 01:25:26,541 --> 01:25:29,625 What nobody loves this it stinks 717 01:25:29,708 --> 01:25:34,458 That just sounds like the name itself 718 01:25:34,458 --> 01:25:35,500 just sounds terrible. It's 719 01:25:35,500 --> 01:25:37,375 like I would never want this 720 01:25:39,583 --> 01:25:42,208 That's hilarious. Oh 721 01:25:42,208 --> 01:25:44,708 I got a meatball chip. Yes, so that's 722 01:25:44,708 --> 01:25:46,375 great. Yep. Kind of sore official. Yes 723 01:25:46,958 --> 01:25:48,583 Y'all get y'all can start mailing it back 724 01:25:48,583 --> 01:25:49,291 and forth, you know 725 01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:51,166 different flavors of nasty chips 726 01:25:51,166 --> 01:25:55,125 All right, yeah pin pals 727 01:25:55,125 --> 01:25:58,375 All right, let's get back on topic 728 01:26:00,708 --> 01:26:02,125 We'll go down we'll go 729 01:26:02,125 --> 01:26:03,500 down a spiral here in a minute 730 01:26:04,250 --> 01:26:05,833 but uh, so 731 01:26:06,375 --> 01:26:08,625 I guess as far as the release goes 732 01:26:08,791 --> 01:26:10,791 When are you thinking you another couple 733 01:26:10,791 --> 01:26:11,875 months or you're thinking 734 01:26:11,875 --> 01:26:13,583 fairly soon on your release date? 735 01:26:13,583 --> 01:26:16,333 Don't like the official thing or or 736 01:26:16,333 --> 01:26:18,708 what's your feeling right now? 737 01:26:18,916 --> 01:26:20,833 um, I mean there is a lot 738 01:26:20,833 --> 01:26:23,166 that I want to build in but 739 01:26:23,458 --> 01:26:25,750 that's kind of like it'll come and it 740 01:26:25,750 --> 01:26:27,541 will keep refining and there'll always be 741 01:26:27,541 --> 01:26:28,708 more because there's there's a 742 01:26:29,250 --> 01:26:32,500 Huge API footprint that we've got to kind 743 01:26:32,500 --> 01:26:34,208 of tackle to build all the stuff 744 01:26:34,708 --> 01:26:36,291 So I think it's just about getting a few 745 01:26:36,291 --> 01:26:37,500 of those key ones, you know 746 01:26:37,500 --> 01:26:38,875 It'd be great if we can get push 747 01:26:38,875 --> 01:26:40,625 notifications in our purchases 748 01:26:41,666 --> 01:26:43,583 The camera and a few other bits and 749 01:26:43,583 --> 01:26:46,500 pieces going and then I mean Android is 750 01:26:46,500 --> 01:26:48,500 that the other big piece, right? 751 01:26:48,500 --> 01:26:50,416 So we get Android and those things and 752 01:26:50,416 --> 01:26:52,666 get everything kind of on par with each 753 01:26:52,666 --> 01:26:54,500 other and then it kind of feels ready 754 01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:55,875 Yeah, because right 755 01:26:55,875 --> 01:26:58,208 now it it's stable enough 756 01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:00,125 you know, I there is an 757 01:27:00,125 --> 01:27:01,500 app on the App Store that 758 01:27:02,500 --> 01:27:05,500 so the the principle of that is you could 759 01:27:05,500 --> 01:27:07,916 go today and and use it and build a 760 01:27:07,916 --> 01:27:09,833 product that you can sell like you could 761 01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:13,250 Sell it on the store or you could build 762 01:27:13,250 --> 01:27:14,166 it for a client that's 763 01:27:14,166 --> 01:27:15,625 paying you and you you know 764 01:27:15,625 --> 01:27:16,958 You're basically making money off this 765 01:27:16,958 --> 01:27:18,166 thing straight away, which is great 766 01:27:19,250 --> 01:27:21,916 So I feel that it's like stable enough 767 01:27:21,916 --> 01:27:23,541 right now to do something 768 01:27:24,125 --> 01:27:26,750 But yeah, it's not gonna do all of the 769 01:27:26,750 --> 01:27:28,916 things that you might want to do with 770 01:27:28,916 --> 01:27:31,166 like interacting with the device 771 01:27:31,458 --> 01:27:34,541 API's so I 772 01:27:34,541 --> 01:27:36,875 Think once we've got some of those the 773 01:27:36,875 --> 01:27:38,500 stability is kind of already there 774 01:27:38,916 --> 01:27:40,833 Android will come and that'll just be 775 01:27:40,833 --> 01:27:42,375 like the okay, you know 776 01:27:42,375 --> 01:27:43,833 We've got the little cherry on top now 777 01:27:43,833 --> 01:27:45,458 with everything working together. So 778 01:27:45,458 --> 01:27:48,625 let's just roll this out proper and then 779 01:27:49,125 --> 01:27:51,250 Then we can continue just like supporting 780 01:27:51,250 --> 01:27:53,458 it and maintaining it and improving it 781 01:27:54,333 --> 01:27:55,041 so I think 782 01:27:55,583 --> 01:27:56,958 We're probably looking at 783 01:27:56,958 --> 01:27:58,625 a couple of months from now 784 01:27:58,625 --> 01:28:00,791 But I definitely want to bring that in as 785 01:28:00,791 --> 01:28:03,666 much as I possibly can so get it get it 786 01:28:03,666 --> 01:28:05,000 going as quickly as possible 787 01:28:05,208 --> 01:28:05,666 basically 788 01:28:06,375 --> 01:28:08,458 Awesome. Well if so when 789 01:28:08,458 --> 01:28:09,541 people want to find out more 790 01:28:10,458 --> 01:28:12,375 Where should they go? You know, I guess 791 01:28:12,375 --> 01:28:14,000 like a newsletter sign up or 792 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:15,250 anything like that for them 793 01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:18,208 Yeah, the the easiest place to go to is 794 01:28:18,208 --> 01:28:20,916 native PHP comm slash iOS 795 01:28:22,083 --> 01:28:24,750 Because it is iOS at only at the moment 796 01:28:25,625 --> 01:28:27,666 But yeah, the the docs are coming 797 01:28:27,666 --> 01:28:30,916 together on native PHP comm got now like 798 01:28:30,916 --> 01:28:31,833 the whole section of 799 01:28:31,833 --> 01:28:32,875 like switching between 800 01:28:33,041 --> 01:28:34,250 desktop and mobile 801 01:28:34,583 --> 01:28:36,333 Documentation so you can start to see all 802 01:28:36,333 --> 01:28:37,166 of that come together 803 01:28:37,708 --> 01:28:39,750 And if you go to that page that I just 804 01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:42,166 mentioned, there's the chance to join the 805 01:28:42,166 --> 01:28:43,416 early access program 806 01:28:44,041 --> 01:28:45,791 And there's a sign-up link 807 01:28:45,791 --> 01:28:47,083 there as well for a newsletter 808 01:28:47,125 --> 01:28:49,125 If you know you're not ready to join the 809 01:28:49,125 --> 01:28:50,083 early access program 810 01:28:50,083 --> 01:28:51,500 so you can find out more 811 01:28:52,041 --> 01:28:54,500 I'll be sharing updates and stuff on the 812 01:28:54,500 --> 01:28:55,416 newsletter over the 813 01:28:55,416 --> 01:28:56,875 coming weeks like probably 814 01:28:57,791 --> 01:29:00,458 once a week for the next few weeks 815 01:29:01,791 --> 01:29:04,291 Awesome. Well, man. Well, I appreciate 816 01:29:04,291 --> 01:29:06,583 you taking the time to you know, let us 817 01:29:06,583 --> 01:29:08,833 talk about native PHP iOS 818 01:29:08,833 --> 01:29:10,458 And I'm really glad to have the 819 01:29:10,458 --> 01:29:12,583 opportunity again. Yeah, I'm excited 820 01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:15,000 I'm excited to see where this this you 821 01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,791 know brings the community in the future 822 01:29:16,791 --> 01:29:19,208 like we're it feels like 823 01:29:19,208 --> 01:29:20,500 there Connie you with all the 824 01:29:20,583 --> 01:29:21,458 announcements around 825 01:29:22,166 --> 01:29:24,375 Laravel proper announcements then you 826 01:29:24,375 --> 01:29:26,000 have you know what you're doing yet 827 01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:27,125 fusion you have and 828 01:29:27,125 --> 01:29:28,291 all this stuff is just 829 01:29:28,708 --> 01:29:30,375 Coming out of nowhere in the last year 830 01:29:30,375 --> 01:29:32,916 and it's it's pretty inspiring and I 831 01:29:32,916 --> 01:29:34,291 think we'll do a lot with people with 832 01:29:34,291 --> 01:29:35,083 Laravel in the future 833 01:29:35,625 --> 01:29:38,333 Yeah, I can't wait to use fusion. I think 834 01:29:38,333 --> 01:29:39,125 Aaron said he's gonna 835 01:29:39,125 --> 01:29:40,583 bring it out on Friday 836 01:29:40,875 --> 01:29:42,958 I think he was gonna do it on Monday 837 01:29:42,958 --> 01:29:44,000 originally, but now it's 838 01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:45,125 gonna be this this Friday 839 01:29:45,125 --> 01:29:47,416 and I just I want to 840 01:29:47,416 --> 01:29:49,083 get my hands on that and 841 01:29:49,083 --> 01:29:51,416 chuck it into native PHP and 842 01:29:51,625 --> 01:29:54,291 see if it work on mobile out of the box 843 01:29:54,291 --> 01:29:55,416 because I think that's gonna be really 844 01:29:55,416 --> 01:29:57,458 cool because I think view 845 01:29:57,708 --> 01:29:59,458 You know, I've been showing most of my 846 01:29:59,458 --> 01:30:01,291 demos from like live wire because I 847 01:30:01,291 --> 01:30:02,666 really like using live wire 848 01:30:02,666 --> 01:30:06,833 but I used to do a lot of view and I know 849 01:30:06,833 --> 01:30:08,125 there's like a space for 850 01:30:08,125 --> 01:30:09,541 still doing that and I think 851 01:30:10,166 --> 01:30:11,375 allowing people to use 852 01:30:11,375 --> 01:30:13,291 whatever front-end tooling 853 01:30:13,666 --> 01:30:15,500 Really makes sense and and there's 854 01:30:15,500 --> 01:30:16,708 nothing to stop you like I 855 01:30:16,708 --> 01:30:17,916 can't tell you you can't do it 856 01:30:17,916 --> 01:30:18,958 So, you know 857 01:30:18,958 --> 01:30:21,250 you can use view or react to whatever and 858 01:30:21,250 --> 01:30:23,458 and I think fusion will just slot right 859 01:30:23,458 --> 01:30:25,083 in there and just work and I just 860 01:30:25,083 --> 01:30:27,666 want to try it out so that I can see if 861 01:30:27,666 --> 01:30:29,916 that happens and I think that's gonna be 862 01:30:29,916 --> 01:30:31,375 very cool for a lot of people because 863 01:30:31,750 --> 01:30:34,250 Yeah, Aaron did an awesome job. His talk 864 01:30:34,250 --> 01:30:35,791 was brilliant and the the 865 01:30:35,791 --> 01:30:37,458 project looks great, too 866 01:30:37,458 --> 01:30:39,458 So I'm really excited to see that 867 01:30:40,333 --> 01:30:41,250 For sure for sure 868 01:30:41,791 --> 01:30:43,875 all right, well Simon, thank you again 869 01:30:43,875 --> 01:30:46,166 for coming and joining me and 870 01:30:46,666 --> 01:30:50,041 We'll look look forward to the launch and 871 01:30:50,041 --> 01:30:50,541 to everything you're 872 01:30:50,541 --> 01:30:52,041 working on. Thanks, man