Jeremy Owens

We talk to the creator and producer of the storytelling hit, "You're Being Ridiculous", Jeremy Owens!

Show Notes

Intro: Final Draft is conspiring against us, Beastie Boys' Adam Horowitz, Doris the dog loves the vet, Jim Croce, The Cure.
Let Me Run This By You: storytelling, Risk Podcast, The Moth
Interview: We talk to the creator and producer of You're Being Ridiculous, Jeremy Owens, about offending people, porn, Samantha Irby, Roosevelt University, University of Arkansas, The URTAs, King Lear, Greg Vinkler, Barbara Gaines, Plautus' The Rope, P.F. Changs, Kyogen, Threepenny Opera, Steppenwolf, Brene Brown, Marianne Williamson.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

3 (15s):
At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (34s):
Yeah.

1 (35s):
It was one of these things where it's like, final draft will not let you restart your computer. I'm like, fuck you. Final draft. What did you ever do for me? Final draft writer, duet. They're all, they're all plotting against me,

2 (47s):
But what is, what is, what does final draft have to do with your camera working on this?

1 (53s):
So in order to, to be okay, the bottom line is I need a new computer. Okay. Let's start there second. Okay. That's the first level of problems. It's like the deepest level. And then we, if we go up a little bit into the level of problems, it is that final draft that I might camera in order to use my camera. Sometimes I have to restart my computer because it's so old. Right. So I need to restart,

2 (1m 19s):
You know, I want to do any one thing in the morning I got, are really rev my engine.

1 (1m 26s):
So like, I'm like, okay, well, in order to restart the computer, it's like not letting me restart it because final draft is this because probably final draft is so advanced and my computer is so Jack.

2 (1m 39s):
Totally. And that's how they get you mad. I feel like they all conspired to be like, okay, well let's make it. So this will work on this version. So then,

1 (1m 49s):
So anyway, I see you, you look great. I look like shit. So it's probably better my camera's up.

2 (1m 57s):
So a couple of things I keep forgetting to ask you on here, about how, how did it come to be that you were chatting in the parking lot with Adam Horowitz about your dogs, Volvo.

1 (2m 12s):
We never talked about that.

2 (2m 14s):
We did not.

1 (2m 15s):
Okay. So I rule up, so my dog, Doris, who everyone knows that listens to the podcast and by everyone, I mean, whoever listens to the podcast, you know what I mean? So hopefully it's growing and growing, listen and rate the podcast. Anyway, the point is I roll up to the vet, which I do oh about every other week, because my dog is a very high maintenance. And so she's just so she of course had an ear infection. Cause she has these huge ears that collect all this bacteria. So I roll up and there's an eye and because it's COVID and everything, you have to park outside and wait, but because it's LA all the windows are down and everyone's car and there's this dude sitting in his Kia has electric Kia.

1 (2m 59s):
Well,

2 (2m 59s):
My key.

1 (3m 0s):
Yeah, I know. I know. I did not recognize this human being. He looked like my husband, like fifties gray, maybe had glasses on.

2 (3m 13s):
Why would you like all our knowledge of them is when they were so, so young. Right,

1 (3m 18s):
Right. So young. And I like didn't, you know, keep up with the beast. So it was like, I had other things to do, you know? So I was doing other things. So I'm, I'm like trying to corral Doris out of the car. She's crazy. She's trying to get out. She loves the vet. The backdrop is my dog

2 (3m 35s):
Loves the,

1 (3m 36s):
Oh my God. She races towards the vet with a fury that is unmatched, loves it. I

2 (3m 43s):
Never once heard of this in my entire life. So

1 (3m 45s):
She's really, really excited about the bet. So she's an extra crazy. And I get her out of the carrier to let her sniff around in the parking lot. And I see this gentleman who is the interesting thing about him is that his leg is out the window. Like he's like resting his leg. And I'm like, well, that's kind of weird for like an older dude, but whatever, it's, it's LA like, you know

2 (4m 8s):
That sound's going to say, I imagine that kind of thing happens in LA.

1 (4m 11s):
Yeah. And plus he's probably weighed been waiting and waiting for his dog forever. And so, cause you, you have to wait out there, like they don't want you to leave in case they need you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, fine. So I, and I say, and he says, oh, a cute dog. And I'm like, oh, she's a pain in the ass. And then he's like, what's her name? And I'm like, oh, her name is Doris. And he's like, oh, that was my mom's name. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then we talked about the origin of Doris, cause it's from a Jim Croce song. And Jim Croce is someone, my husband adores the singer. The folks there yeah. Died when he was 29. Looked like he was about 60. When he died.

2 (4m 47s):
He was 29.

1 (4m 49s):
Yes. You know, he looks like David Abbott, Holly, if you ever look at me

2 (4m 56s):
Like a hole, I see it.

1 (4m 59s):
But just bringing it back to the old theater school. So, so yeah. And so he's like, we talked about Jim Croce and he's like, Jim Croce is the first person I remember dying. I had that album. And I said, yeah. And he said, that's in a Jim Croce song. And I said, yes, Leroy brown, Friday about a week ago, Leroy shooting dice. And at the end of the bar sat a girl named Doris and who that girl looked nice. And that's why we named Doris Doris. He was like, I don't remember Doris being in that song. So we get into that. Right. Okay. And then he's like, I'm like, oh, is your dog okay? And he's like, well, she, she, she got a cut on her neck and I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, is that

2 (5m 38s):
A knife fight in a bar?

1 (5m 39s):
I was like, how did that happen? And he goes, I don't know. But like, you know, since I'm not a doctor, I figured I'd take, bring her to the vet. I'm like good plan, my friend, good plan. So he's like, I'm waiting for him and waiting for her. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he said, what's wrong with your dog? And I said, oh my God, what? Isn't wrong with my dog? And I said, my dog has a dermatitis of the vulva and an ear infection. And he's like, wait, what? And I'm like, yes, she just she's out. She's got a lot of allergies because she's a friend. She and I did this to myself by getting a friendship. But like, yeah, she's got, and he said that his dog was really licking her butthole and he had dermatitis of the bottle. And I was like, it's the same I heard of my friend, Morgan has a Frenchie who has dermatitis of the butthole because all Frenchie owners talk about these things.

1 (6m 26s):
And he's like, oh, well, my dog has dermatitis of the bottle. I'm like, well, mine's got dermatitis of the Volvo. They both have, they both have like private parts itching. Right. And so then we started talking and we talked about a lot of things. Cause you have to wait forever. And then right. And so we talk and talk and talk and no clue who this person is. And he's like,

2 (6m 47s):
Did you say cut? There's something about that voice?

1 (6m 52s):
No.

2 (6m 52s):
No. Okay.

1 (6m 54s):
'cause he was kinda mumbly and also just looked so natural.

2 (6m 60s):
Aiming, sabotage.

1 (7m 1s):
No, not screaming and also not jumping around with his other two cohort. And then I just, I felt like, anyway, it just didn't cross my mind. And his shoelaces were untied. I don't know. It was like a real casual situation.

2 (7m 15s):
Yeah. Honestly, I would never assume somebody in a key is famous. That's my snobbery, but I wouldn't.

1 (7m 21s):
Yeah. I mean, I, it was a very, very, very nice camp, but it still, it was a key I said to you like, oh, that was her talking about cars. I mean, we talked about kids, cars, Manhattan. Then he said, I'm from it. I said, oh, I'm from Chicago. And he said, I'm from Manhattan. And I said, oh, I said, oh my God. I launched into this thing about how I could never live in New York because I was like to own like the most unhip like fat and ugly human and like, not in a bad way, but just like, kind of like I'm. So I just feel like, I didn't know what the fuck was going on ever in New York. Like, I didn't know which way to go, who to talk to, where to turn I was lost. And he's like, yeah. Do you know what I like about LA is like, nothing ever happens here.

1 (8m 2s):
That's not

2 (8m 2s):
True.

1 (8m 3s):
No. But I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I need to just like New York, like you have like a million things are always happening at any given time. Right?

2 (8m 11s):
Sure. It's a lot too. Like you have to do a lot of processing living in New York, you're taking your, you know, you're just taking in so much information

1 (8m 19s):
And that does not happen in LA and LA you're like sometimes starved for like,

2 (8m 25s):
Right.

1 (8m 26s):
But we talked about that. And then, and then by like end of conversation almost. I was like, oh, I'm Jen. I'm so sorry. And he was like, oh, I'm Adam. And I was like, okay, still, no, I had no

2 (8m 40s):
Adam common name,

1 (8m 41s):
Common name, whatever. And mom named Doris, whatever. Like, okay. And then we started talking, he said, his wife, what did he say? Oh, he bought a house in south custody. Anyway, all this stuff. He has a kid. And at the end I say, he was talking about what we, what we do. And I'm like, oh, I'm a, I'm a writer. And I'm like trying to write TV, but I also consult, I just started this business, but I wasn't, you know, I was a therapist and for felons and like, and then he got really into that. And then I said, oh, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I was, I think he said I was in the I'm in the music business. I said, oh, that's cool. I thought he was like a producer, like maybe a classical composer or something. I don't know. That's where my mind went. And I'm like, oh, like, what do you do?

1 (9m 22s):
And then he said, I was in and I said, oh, what kind of music? He's like, I was in a rap trio. And I was like, wait a minute, a rap tree endorsed by this. By this time it was like, biting me. You know, it's like a whole, I'm like, oh, a rap trio. And I couldn't the only rap trio I could think of was run DMC. And I'm like, oh, he's not in that. You know, he's a white dude. There's no way. And I'm like, oh crap trio. And I was like, house of pain, Cypress hill. Like I couldn't get it together. And then I was like, and then it dawned on me. And I said, oh, and he said something, like I said, I don't remember how it came up. And he's like, oh, I'm Adam Horwitz. And I was like, oh, I was like, of course.

1 (10m 2s):
I said, oh my God. And then I didn't know what to say. So I just said, cause he just moved. He actually, he moved to south Pasadena, wait before I moved to Pasadena. But I said welcome to Pasadena.

2 (10m 16s):
Right. Because the minute, you know, it's a celebrity. It's like, it changes the ions. Wait. Yes.

1 (10m 21s):
Thank you. You welcome to you too.

2 (10m 24s):
So what I think is so interesting and must be so well, I don't know. I don't know if it's annoying or whatever it is, celebrities. You, they must have to always be in a process of deciding with when they're interacting with people, they don't know what are we going to do with this fact, like, do you know who I am? Do you not know who I am? If you know who I am, just, what does that mean? Is that why you're talking to me? And then, but he opened one of the first things you said that he said was that his mom's name was, I mean, I guess that's not unusual, but I was thinking to myself when you said that I was thinking, oh, was he hoping That would confirm not that his dad is famous.

2 (11m 10s):
His dad is

1 (11m 10s):
Trail horo. Israel.

2 (11m 12s):
Yeah. He's a kind of a terrible guy though.

1 (11m 16s):
I heard is there. I think they're both dead. I mean, from what I got, I don't know. I know he has a sister. I don't know. But like he seemed like the kind, yes, you're right. Like it must be so weird. And also I literally was so into my own world. It's like, so Los Angeles, like I, when I found out that he was, I was super excited because I wanted to say, oh, I saw you at the Metro in Chicago and stuff like that. But then I was like, oh, I can't. And so I got excited, but I also, it was literally like talking to your husband or my husband in that they're old people. Like I wanted to be more excited about the, the youthful version.

2 (11m 56s):
Right? You want it to be 19 year old, you eating Israel, horrible

1 (12m 2s):
Adam Harz and being like, let's go on a date or something. But that is not what I, that was not my inclination this time. And also his he's married to this amazing punk hero, Kathleen Hanna from bikini kill who I adore. And I know that, but I didn't bring that up either. But anyway, the point is we exchanged information because we were like, let's walk our dogs. His dog is Terry. It really hairy dog, little girl, dog named Terry. And I said, well, what kind of dog is Terry? And he goes, I don't know, very hairy. And I was like, okay, well, okay. So we may go on a dog-walking adventure. I have no idea, but lovely human, but just like soup. We are super middle age.

1 (12m 43s):
This is what the moral of this thing was actually not the celebrity. Part of it was the, what hit me the most Gina was the middle age in this of it all. So the other thing is like, nobody gives a shit now about the things that we give a shit about. So the BC boys, I was talking to my niece, she didn't know who that was. And so I was like, oh right. Meaning I still care who they are, but

2 (13m 16s):
Right. Yeah.

1 (13m 17s):
Time moves on timeframe.

2 (13m 20s):
Yeah. Periodically we have kids periodically, they'll come up to you and they'll be like, have you ever heard of this bay? Or like, my son was listening to something and I'm like, and I go, he goes, oh, I've got to play this song for you. It's this band. This is like obscure band or something like that. It was the cure. I go, are you kidding me, dude? I put white face makeup on and wore black and tried to hang my two years in junior high. I knew the cure is okay. So that was one thing. And the other thing was last time.

1 (13m 52s):
It super nice though. I got to say, if anybody cares, he was not a Dick head.

2 (13m 56s):
I care. Yeah. That's nice. I'm happy to hear that. But just one last thing about that whole, like being a celebrity, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't, because on the one hand you, you could have somebody say, oh, it's like pretentious to not say who you are. And on the other hand, people would say, you know, you can't win. You can't, you

1 (14m 14s):
Can't win. That is the bottom line. Yeah. Yeah.

2 (14m 17s):
So the other thing was last time we talked, you said, oh, I want to save it for the podcast, but about showcase. So you were talking about getting your kids ready for showcase.

1 (14m 28s):
Okay. So here's the deal with that. So I, because of this podcast, I'm like, okay, is there a way to make a showcase? Not the shit show that I feel it was now, there may not be, it might be inherent in the thing. Okay. But so I'm teaching fourth year. I like, basically don't even, I don't know what I'm teaching at this point, but not even teaching anymore. I'm done. And my, my, my, my co-teacher took over, but I started noticing as I always do that, that, that the students are like, you know, crazy nervous about the showcase and also crazy nervous about agents and managers and all the things.

1 (15m 9s):
Now, there is no showcase in LA. There was only a quote meet and greet. There is no showcase in New York. There was only quote, a meet and greet. Look, it gets weirder in Chicago. There was a live showcase and a meet and greet. Now, I don't know what went down, but the bottom line is the ball has been dropped so many times about this showcase and about graduation and about launching that at this point, the ball is just dead in a heap deflated. Okay. So I said, okay, well, what can I do to make this fucking situation better? Because I know what it's like to be there and be like, oh my God, I'm falling behind. What if so then I'm like, okay, everybody, here's what we're going to do.

1 (15m 52s):
I am going to email everyone I know in LA and everywhere and say, come to this showcase and watch your digital link. They have a virtual showcase. But the problem with that is nobody. If nobody gets sees it, it doesn't matter. And so it was made in a form beans where it looked like spam. So it went to everybody's spam. So no casting directors and no agents got the fucking link. And I realized that because I told a student of mine, I said, listen, you want to be repped by this one agency, let's create a letter to them. Let's pitch them. And so then I get a call from the agent saying, we loved this letter.

1 (16m 33s):
Also, thank you for including, we didn't think there was a showcase.

4 (16m 37s):
Oh my gosh.

1 (16m 39s):
And I said, what's,

2 (16m 41s):
This has to do with just the fact that like, there's been all this administrative,

1 (16m 45s):
I think it's, COVID meets the problem with conservatories, which is that they do not think that launching their students is an important part part of their job. Right? Right. So it falls to nobody. And so the person in charge bless her heart is one marketing person that knows nothing. I don't believe about acting or the entertainment industry at all. There is no Jane alderman. There, there is no, at least. So I stepped in to be like the proxy, Jane alderman with another adjunct. And we were like, okay, well, how do we do this? So I am happy to say that after literally making maybe 43 phone calls, everyone has the link.

1 (17m 26s):
People are coming to the showcases. Now my thing is to do the meet and greet in LA to try to get people there because these, these kiddos are coming to LA, there is no showcase. I'm like, well, we, what are we doing? Like we have to have something like, so, and I also just, you know, and I know these kids, like these are my students. So like, I want to meet them. And then, so now I'm getting everyone I know to come to the meet, greet in the business and

2 (17m 51s):
The money thing. Like, they're like, oh, well we have, we can do it online. And so we don't have to pay for, to rent the space for,

1 (17m 59s):
So they wouldn't even tell me, they wouldn't even tell me. They didn't even want to give me the invite to the LA thing. I had to like fight to get the, I don't understand what is going on. But I was like, listen, all right,

2 (18m 11s):
DePaul, I'm going to tell you something right now in DePaul. You want to be well-regarded you want to be number one. You want to always talk about your, your alum or even not your alum. People who, who went and got kicked out about their great successes. And you don't, but you don't want to do anything to get there. And that is not how it works, how it works is you put a lot of energy and I'm not saying at the expense of teachers or whatever, but you put a lot of energy and effort into not just hyping your students, but hyping your school.

2 (18m 51s):
Like it should be that your school is saying, have we got a crew for you? Yeah.

1 (18m 56s):
And which is what I then stepped in and had to do and be like, these kids are dope. Come see this, look at this link and then come to the thing. And so all the casting and agents in Chicago are now coming. Thank God, because guess who, there was one person RSVP

2 (19m 14s):
Girl, and you need a bonus

1 (19m 16s):
Stroke. Here's what we're doing. So then I said, okay, because I'm always thinking, I'm like, okay, well, here's what I'm doing. I'm developing a launching curriculum, which I think I told you about, like, I'm developing a day, one BFA for day one of the fourth year. Here's what we're going to do to launch you. And it's not just about the showcase. It's about mentorship. It's about how can we hook you up with somebody that's in what you want to do? How can we do that? And I'm going to pitch it. I'm going to say, here you pay me $120,000. And I will sell you this program and, and hook you up with teachers and people. I know that can step in and do this with me. Like you like people in the business, like people who are on different coasts, like duh, and then we will.

1 (19m 58s):
So, and if you don't want to buy it, DePaul theater school, we're selling it to Northwestern or NYU or any anyone.

2 (20m 4s):
Well, I was going to ask, do you know, if other conservatories are doing showcases and doing,

1 (20m 9s):
And they are, and they are doing it and they are, they are doing it. I, from what I can see, Gina, they're doing it better. I don't know if it's, you know, how good it is. But I do know that like other showcases released their digital showcase because of the pandemic on actors, accessing and town and casting networks, which DePaul did not do. Oh

2 (20m 30s):
My God.

1 (20m 32s):
So here's, so that is not okay with me because I went there and I, I do care about it because of this podcast. I also know that these kids having watched them at, you know, 21 year olds, 22 year olds, max, they're busting their ass, just like you. And I we're busting our ass. Like, look, they're busting their ass more than we were, but you and I busted her ass too. And I feel like we didn't get what we needed from the launch process. And what, what will happen is no one will people and people stopped going to theater school. Is that what you want? Or do you want to upgrade like level?

1 (21m 13s):
Let me run this by. There's a lot of people I hate.

2 (21m 24s):
Exactly, exactly. Okay. So the thing I wanted to run by you is about storytelling. I signed up for this workshop in my town. We have a little community theater and they sometimes have little workshops and I did improv there one time. And actually by the way, doing improv there, I I'm, I still am terrified of it. And I still don't feel like I'm I do well, but add it. But I reduced my fear somewhat by just aging within, and then we had a performance and my whole family came and yeah, it was, yeah.

1 (22m 3s):
Why don't we talk about what

2 (22m 5s):
She like two years ago or three years ago, actually. Yeah. Three or maybe even four years ago now. But anyway, on Sunday I went to, they ha they had a workshop led by a storyteller from the moth and she taught us, you know, how to, so there was only five of us there. One person, only one person absolutely knew when he came in. Exactly what story he wanted to tell. The rest of us were like, I have certain things that are coming to mind. Of course my thing. And I said, I was, I just owned it from the beginning was I've written essays. And I've, you know, written a lot about my life.

2 (22m 46s):
And yet I somehow feel like I don't have a story to tell. And she said, that's so common. She was telling this great story about somebody. Cause she does corporate stuff too. She was telling the story about somebody in a workshop, in a corporate workshop who just kept saying, I just, I don't have a story. I don't have a story. The day goes on. And he goes, well, I might have something, my family and I fled Vietnam right before this. And she goes, yeah, that's a story. That's a, that's a story you could tell. Anyway, point being, we're putting these stories together and we're going to perform them on Friday.

2 (23m 34s):
And the I'll say there is something about the process of working on it. That has been, it's not exactly healing, cause this is not a, for me at all. It's something I'm telling a story about when I lived in that apartment on Lil and Libby got me this job at the bakery and while we were, and she was very assiduous about being to work on time. And

1 (24m 9s):
I remember the, was it the red hen? Oh, we shouldn't say it out loud.

2 (24m 12s):
I actually, I really don't remember the name. I think it might have been called great Plains. I don't know. Okay. I don't think it's there anymore. And one of the things that was our task was to deal with the mice that inevitably came into the, in the flour sacks and stuff like that in the back. And, but I never she'd said to me, we have to deal with the mice, but I somehow, I hadn't really, really thought that through. And the way we were meant to deal with the mice was hit them over the head with a shovel.

1 (24m 47s):
Oh. So, so murder of the mice

2 (24m 50s):
Were into the mice. And so my story is about watching this five foot tall, gorgeous little, just, I mean, she looks like a bird, this girl, woman now, but she was a girl. Then I'm just swinging the shovel over her head and bringing it down. And then just very like with, with zero expression, taking paper towels and picking it up and throw it in the trash, washing her hands and making it back to the register in time for the next customer who came in. And my point of it, of the story is that's. That was one of my most important lessons about the difference between being poor and being broke because I was broke, you know, and always looking for jobs and always working through school.

2 (25m 35s):
But if it came to smashing a mouse over the head with a shovel, I'm just going to quit that job and go find another job, selling clothes at express. But Libby did not have such luxuries. She had to take the jobs that she could get. And she had to guard them with her life because as even, even with the amount of time she worked, there was a period of time where she would tell me, like, I'm going to bed hungry a lot of nights. And I couldn't help her, you know, because I was broke. I just, I didn't have we bought ramen. I mean, we right. Like six days a week.

2 (26m 16s):
And so it's about that. And so there's something about, but, but the fact that it's about this epoch in my life yeah. Which I haven't really written that much about, I've written about my childhood and I've written about things that are more contemporary, but you have a lot of experience with storytelling. And I'm curious to know what role that has played in sort of, you know, for one thing, the ability to string together, kind of the, of your life into a cohesive narrative. If, if

1 (26m 47s):
That's

2 (26m 47s):
Something that has been helpful or if maybe you have healed in some way, maybe from your one person show,

1 (26m 53s):
I am Gina. What comes to mind? Like what first came to mind when you were talking about your experience with this storytelling thing? Is it, what, what is the coolest thing to me about storytelling? Like this live lit as we like to call it in Chicago, just because I, storytelling people think it's like, we started calling it live live because people thought it was like, you know, Renaissance fair storytelling. Right. We had like a cheese ball, it's it doesn't matter. It's storytelling. So storytelling, bridges the gap for me. And maybe you have acting and writing. So it is both performance and writing, which I think is brilliant. I think acting is for the birds.

1 (27m 35s):
Like I just do. I think acting is really hard. I'm not very good at it. Not because I'm not a good person, but that's what I'm saying. I'm not very good at it because I don't like it as much as I like telling a story. That's my story. That also has a performance aspect to it. And it heals the acting thing for me. So you are acting, you are acting, you're not like you in your kitchen, just like when we do a podcast where there's a part of us, that's acting, it's not, you know, it just is what it is. So I think that that is extremely healing. And what, I wonder if it's extremely healing for you, because I feel like in terms of the acting thing, I know that post-graduation from an acting conservatory, you talk about just completely shutting down, completely not shutting down to the acting part of yourself.

1 (28m 25s):
And I think like through your son and then through this podcast and through writing television and now through storytelling and like your dip into improv, you're, you're healing, the actor part of yourself.

2 (28m 37s):
That's right. That's right. It

1 (28m 38s):
Wouldn't surprise me. If you went on to do acting like started acting in plays and stuff. Again,

2 (28m 44s):
I'm not going to lie. I'm really thinking about it at this point in time. I still feel like it's a bridge too far, just because I have nobody to spell me at home. You know, I can't ask my husband to leave his job so I can go to a play. But at some point, I mean, you know, they're not going to be this age forever. At some point I will be able to do that. And I do have designs on doing that actually.

1 (29m 8s):
Yeah. And I think, and I think you, I think this storytelling is brilliant because I think the cool thing about storytelling, as well as like you could go to New York city and do them off one night. It's not a, it's not a commitment like the play. In fact, you could do the risk thing that I did in New York. Like the rest of the podcast is live performances in New York. So all this to say that I think storytelling is a fantastic way to heal the part of ourselves that wants to be a performer, but definitely doesn't want, is not ready to take all the trappings and bullshit. That is a professional acting career, which is garbage. Like I got to say, like I just tell my students is to like the part of the business, which is why this is so fraught because it's garbage.

1 (29m 55s):
That's why you don't like it. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it to you. If you can find a way to make it worth it to you, the competition, the rejection, the then go for it. But what if that is bothersome? And like, you don't want to deal, like what about live lit? Like what about improv? What if there's so many other things? And so like, wouldn't it have been awesome. Gina. If someone had come to us fourth year and been like, Hey, you know what, maybe you get really nervous and that panic attacks when you have to audition. But what about like writing this thing and telling your story on, you know, on a stage somewhere where you get to hold the piece of paper

2 (30m 34s):
Today on the podcast, we are talking to Jeremy Owen. Jeremy is a storyteller and the creator of a storytelling show called George being ridiculous, which is premiering ask Stephanie, I think tomorrow or the next day, check it out. Please enjoy our conversation with Jeremy Owens. Wow. Congratulations. Jeremy Owens. You survive theater school. I want to hear this fabulous story. I missed the beat.

1 (31m 11s):
Yeah. So Gina, miss the beginning. So I was just basically saying that everyone's rusty and it's really good. We're talking about this because also Gina's performing storytelling this weekend and we were just talking about rusty. It was, everyone was after two years of not doing live lit stuff. And then Jeremy tells me that he did a show and of course we can, you don't have to use names and all that, but like did a show and it went south and by south, he's going to tell us what that means. It really went south. So

7 (31m 41s):
It really, when up it's like so complicated. Okay. So I was doing a fundraiser first off. I was like, I there's no way, like, who wants to watch me talk on zoom? Like we're doing that all the time. Like who even cares? How can this benefit anyone? But it's a fundraiser. My sister-in-law asked me amazing. I love it. Amen. Let's go. Let's do it. So we're doing it. And I, okay. I was not as cautious. And as careful as I should have been the show, I mean, you done the show, you did a show. I don't know if I can talk about your story, but you like got your tooth knocked out. That's

1 (32m 22s):
Oh, I believe me. I did. I gave a blow job and my back lower fell out. Yeah.

7 (32m 28s):
That's a story

2 (32m 28s):
Story. I

7 (32m 31s):
Share that story, but That's good. That's the, but that's like kind of the fuel it's like, you don't know what's going to happen. Some things are like, you know, super lovey Dubby. Sometimes somebody tells a story about a blow job and their tooth gets knocked out. It's like not a big deal. Like this is the world we live in. But I mean, if you're doing a corporate fundraiser for someone and I just, Alex, if you're listening, I love you. I just was not clued in. And that's my fault. That's not her fault. It's my fault. I accept responsibility for all those things. This is my disclaimer for my, for my sister-in-law. I accept all the responsibility for that. I just should have been more cautious.

7 (33m 11s):
Right. So if you're up for doing show or tea, fall out from low jobs, it's not that maybe not the best for like a board. Like those are the stories that people,

1 (33m 20s):
I

7 (33m 20s):
Didn't know

1 (33m 21s):
It is. If I'm on the fucking board, I'd probably not get,

7 (33m 24s):
I know, same for me. I mean, we went to theater school and I've decided like, as that has passed me by that we're not the same as like Bob down the street who is like wildly offended by anything, you know, sexual or

1 (33m 42s):
Anything

2 (33m 42s):
You ever get used to that, by the way, I, I I'm always like, oh really? We have to do this thing where I have to pretend like I'm talking to my grandma. Like you're a full grown adult standing in front of me. What's that?

1 (33m 53s):
What's your story about, please tell me something amazing. Gross, please.

7 (33m 56s):
I didn't even get to my story. That's the thing. Okay. So It wasn't even me. I wish it were me. It was like six or seven people. And I think we got like three or four in. And so as they're happening, I'm like, oh wow. That person said, fuck, oh no, this person's talking about porn. Oh, wow. Like things that like, just don't register for me. Right. Because I guess theater school. It's like, none of that registers for me. I'm not offended by anything other than like racist, white assholes.

7 (34m 38s):
Anything else? It doesn't register me. I don't. I know. I just don't care. I'm not bothered. So

2 (34m 45s):
Charity though. I mean,

1 (34m 47s):
It was like, there was it like the nuns of like a sister.

7 (34m 50s):
Oh, I don't want to say there. I don't want to say their name. I'll tell you

1 (34m 54s):
What Sater

7 (34m 56s):
Well, they're like

1 (34m 58s):
Healthcare, charity. He doesn't want

7 (35m 1s):
<inaudible>. Yes. I mean, it's a great charity. They do wonderful things. It's awesome. Right. But they weren't ready for

1 (35m 12s):
Me. So what happened? It just went blank.

7 (35m 15s):
Like we're just plopping along and I'm like so excited. Cause it's like July 20, 20. I have only been like talking to my dog and my husband. Right. So this is happening and I'm listening to stories. I'm having a great time. This is like amazing loving life porn who cares, you know, whatever. And then all of a sudden it stops working. Like I don't see anything. And I'm like, oh my God, this is my brother-in-law. I was like running the tech. I'm like, oh no,

1 (35m 44s):
He thought it was a tech thing. Of course.

7 (35m 46s):
I was like, well, this happened to me. I was taking this class online this weekend and the internet I had and I was like, oh shit. Like in the middle of class, I'm like, great. So now they think I'm an asshole. I just left class early. So I'm just like, this is dead. Right. Then they come, my sister-in-law calls me and tells me what's happening. And they're all furious. And they just, instead of like a conversation or something, or like this is coming or we're so disappointed, it was just like, this is over now. Like just totally dead. The bad part about that is that none of us knew. And there was no communication with me. Other if it hadn't been my sister-in-law, I don't know if I would, I would still be here on my computer.

7 (36m 31s):
Probably.

1 (36m 32s):
That's hilarious right there. Like, are you there yet?

7 (36m 36s):
Hello? Hi. Hi. They just didn't communicate at

1 (36m 40s):
All.

2 (36m 43s):
We're like, really? I'm getting irritated about this. Listen to the story is like, I don't know any of the players, but I feel like, I feel like we're the people we're pretending people are pretending that they don't watch porn or that they don't swear or, you know, like, why do I have to do this? Pretending I just love unless there was children in the audience and maybe there were,

7 (37m 4s):
I don't think so. Like, you know, it's like, I had like friends who

1 (37m 8s):
I curated it. Where you did you

7 (37m 10s):
Find, I mean, it's all, basically this entire thing is my fault. But like

1 (37m 15s):
You, you found everybody.

7 (37m 17s):
I found everybody, I got everybody. This was like a great in my mind was this is like a greatest hits. This is like, awesome.

1 (37m 24s):
It's the one time I'm so grateful. I was not asked to do anything. Like

7 (37m 29s):
It was just so weird. And there's like, I don't know it. Yeah, it was. But again,

1 (37m 37s):
I do the story for the ages. I love it. All of a sudden, it just goes blank.

7 (37m 41s):
I'm in the home. This is a story I'm going to, I just went blank. I didn't know what to do. Everything was gone. Just talking about those things. It doesn't, I don't find that if, when I say porn, I'm not like, this is the butthole. Like it wasn't like, you know what?

2 (37m 59s):
I

7 (37m 59s):
Watched porn. Right. That's not offensive to me.

1 (38m 5s):
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Yeah. Like Gina was saying like we're okay. So that went south. Like if did you feel I'm really concerned? Like, cause I would have probably had to check in somewhere because I would have been like, I curated this motherfucker and now I caused this whole fucking

7 (38m 23s):
I'm still like T like we have a show coming up in like a week at Steppenwolf. And I had one of the storytellers from that show sent me a is doing the show at Steppenwolf. And I like had a moment because his story is like, because of that. And because I'm like wildly triggered, I was like, Hey, maybe you could do this story about tennis or whatever. And he's like, do you need a PG story? Like what's going on? And then I was like, and then I re-read a story. And I was like, I do not his stories about sex.

7 (39m 5s):
I do not find this offensive. This is okay. I'm <inaudible> person totally traumatized. And then I had to go back and be like, oh God, remember that thing that happened in 2020, I'm just totally melted from that. And your story is great and everything's fine. I'm just having a moment. I'm going to calm down

2 (39m 24s):
And see what happens to me though. When I hear w whenever my antenna go up, whenever I hear like, oh, that's offensive to me. That just automatically means you're doing behavior that you feel really ashamed of. And so you want to shame me instead of just own the truth of whatever it is you're doing. This is exactly what happens on the Handmaid's tale. You know, it's all about the Bible, but then they're just like holding people down and raping them. So I just think it's a little bit of a soft sign for you've got trouble. If adults are saying that referencing the fact that there is porn is

7 (39m 58s):
Troublesome. Yeah.

1 (40m 2s):
Oh my God. I can just, okay. I would have been so traumatized. So I hear you. And I also think that, like, it's interesting, I've had a similar thing where like, on this podcast, I've mentioned my husband's job. I have mentioned. And so Gina and I always talk about, well, we will not always, but we've had to talk about this of like, what is the, and it's like a bigger thing in our society right. In the world. Like, where do I draw the line of like, can I stand behind this? I guess that's what it is. It's like, can I stand? If I'm called to the carpet, whoever God, the board, whoever, and say, stand behind this show. These words can.

1 (40m 43s):
And that's when, if I can stand behind it and I am willing to answer for it. And I'm like, I'm all in. If I feel like I'm wishy washy, then I feel like it's going to go south. And then I it's weird. It's a weird thing. It's like when to cut, when to not cut, now, you didn't have the ability I'm fucking lives to do

7 (41m 6s):
That. What

1 (41m 7s):
Happens in live television, right? When someone who goes bonkers or has a stroke, God forbid, or it's like, you don't know what to do. So live is a different thing. Like it's different with a podcast. We can cut. We can, but like a live show, whether zoom or on stage, there is this moment. So when I did my solo show, Samantha Irby, Sam Irby opened for me. Right. Ramus. Now wasn't famous then. But it was always a Reverend and a bad-ass right. But data story at my show and my uncle were there about SAC,

7 (41m 38s):
Right.

1 (41m 38s):
Eight leakage and fluids. And I was like, oh. And then I thought, oh, I wanted to run on stage and be like, ah, this is too much. But then I thought you invited this person. This is their jam. This

7 (41m 54s):
We love. Right.

1 (41m 58s):
What, what, okay, sit, sit, and just deal with it. And if my uncle and my uncle was really offended and like, fuck that. Okay. So, but it's hard to do. I was squirming. So you must've been squirming when you, when your, when your person called you and was like, cause you, you found these people. But I think sometimes we squirm, right? Sometimes we squirm,

7 (42m 21s):
Oh my God, I was dying. Cause it's like, I don't, I don't want to disappoint any of, either of you, this computer, this desk. And I just want to make everyone so happy all the time. And I don't want anyone upset with me or like, I don't want to cause any problems, nothing. I want you all happy.

1 (42m 42s):
And sometimes despite our best people, pleasing efforts, like shit goes south. Like that is the story of shit going south. Despite Being a good person, having gone to college, go to it, shit still goes south. So

7 (42m 55s):
I vote like

1 (42m 58s):
You're very active, like socially.

2 (43m 2s):
So let's, let's talk about you and your experiences. Did you go to DePaul?

7 (43m 7s):
I wish I had gone to DePaul, but I, from listening to this podcast, I get that. I don't know. I went to Roosevelt university for grad school.

2 (43m 17s):
Cool. Tell us everything. Tell us, like, when you decided you wanted to be an actor and when you decided you wanted to go to theater school, tell us everything.

7 (43m 25s):
Well, for me, I grew up in Arkansas. So I went to the university of Arkansas and I started out as like a journalism and a political science major. But then they, the department, the journalism department had us take a speech class. Like how does speak in theater class, you know, to get rid of your accent basically. Cause we're all Arkansans. We sound like, you know, we're in God, but the wind or whatever. So we took this class and I had growing up and like my small town, I always loved theater. I'd done community theater and the whole thing. So when I took that class and like, everyone in there is like, you know, so alive and so like interesting and like, like real, I was like, well, this is going to be a problem.

7 (44m 17s):
So then I, like, I signed up for, you know, the second semester of the class. And then I was like, oh, I'm gonna audition for these one acts. And then so slowly I just migrated into the theater department and completely dropped journalism, political science, all of it. And disappointed my parents ruined their lives, you know, the whole thing. So I didn't really understand, like by the, by the end of my time in undergrad, I was like, I don't really, it's like, you're young. It's like, I don't understand grad school. I don't know. But that seems to be thing that I, there was a grad program that had just started there, like, like near the end of my time there.

7 (44m 59s):
And I was like, I guess that's what I'm supposed to do. And so everyone told me to go to Chicago. I hadn't ever been to Chicago. I knew nothing about it. Never even visited, but I was like, okay. They're like funny people should go to Chicago. And I'm like, oh, I'm funny. So I guess that's where I'll go.

1 (45m 15s):
You are funny. So it's good. You went there.

7 (45m 17s):
Thanks. So, so I auditioned at IRDAs and did that whole thing. And then I got a call back from them and I, it was like weird. Like I thought there was going to be like some like bigger process or something. Like, am I going to, I was like, ready, you know, with like my other, like, do you want 16 bars? Do you need other other monologues? Like, well, what's the deal? And it was just kind of like a done thing. So I was like, Yeah, it's like at the callback, there was like, it was an IRDAs. And it's like, you'd go to the person's hotel room, which now seems really creepy what, with a couple other people.

7 (45m 57s):
And it just seemed like I liked the person who did the interview and I was like, they're in Chicago. This seems great. I

2 (46m 7s):
Like to act in a hotel room. I've never

7 (46m 9s):
Done. Like, the audition was in, like, I don't even know where it was like the ballroom. It was like, there was like a black box sort of like made up situation. So you audition and then like the next day or a few hours later, you get like a sheet with a little list of the schools that want to like talk to you or whatever. And we have been like through the ringer with my undergrad teacher and she's like, okay, you need to have, like, you had like your folder with your monologues. And like, if someone wanted a song, like your whole thing, it's like bootcamp and you're ready. So I'm like prepared for somebody to ask me to do anything. And I don't know, I got called back to like a lot of places, which I was like, oh my God, none of them asked me for anything.

7 (46m 54s):
Which maybe looking back, maybe that was like, not a great situation. I don't know what that means.

2 (46m 60s):
They were just the, and the call back. They were just meeting you. Right. They were just wanting to know if you were like,

7 (47m 4s):
Yeah, I guess

1 (47m 6s):
You're acting probably wow. Like really? They probably would have if they were on the fence, but that probably wasn't that they probably wanted to do what, you know, they, they, a chemistry breed or whatever the fuck they call it. Right.

7 (47m 18s):
Yeah. I guess. But this meaning with the person at Roosevelt, it's like, she was nice. It was great. It felt good. So I was like, all right, maybe that's where I'm going. And I knew I wanted to get Chicago. So like, that was, that was the deal.

2 (47m 36s):
It's an undergrad. You were not thinking this at all. I'm guessing you don't come from a performing family or you, you weren't doing this in high school.

7 (47m 44s):
Oh my God. Well, there was like the junior play or whatever that like pays for the prom, you know, like that kind of a situation. But otherwise, like I did community theater and I'm from a town of like 10,000 people. So there wasn't like really a community theater. I did Annie and Mike, I don't know, 10th grade or something.

1 (48m 3s):
Amazing.

7 (48m 4s):
Really upset. I couldn't be Annie. I was like a Senator. And like the apple salesman. I was like that guy I'm like running around doing whatever anybody wanted me to do.

1 (48m 20s):
Funny. That's why he could do a lot funny.

2 (48m 23s):
Yeah. Interchangeable. Okay. So day one, you're at Roosevelt. Is this the education that you thought you were going to get

7 (48m 32s):
Funny? You should ask. So this, when I went, which was, this was 2000 yes. 2000. So it was their first year of their MFA program.

1 (48m 44s):
Oh shit.

7 (48m 46s):
Oh shit is right. They accepted 30 people take that in verse

1 (48m 54s):
30

7 (48m 55s):
MFA. Oh yeah.

1 (48m 57s):
It's too many people that just like five.

7 (49m 0s):
Thank you. I think that if I'm being kind, I think they accepted a huge amount of people thinking that, you know, with everything going on that like maybe 10, which is still too many would accept. So there were 30 of us. So we're there on the first day. And I'm just like, this seems <inaudible>, I don't know anything about what this experience is supposed to be, but 30 people that's like, that's like an entire MFA program, you know, that's like three years of people or more So immediately.

7 (49m 44s):
I was just like,

1 (49m 45s):
Hmm,

7 (49m 47s):
This doesn't seem right. But you know, I was like 24. So I'm like so happy to be there. I'm living in my friend's base. My friend's mom's basement until I find an apartment just like, you know, desperate twenties times. So immediately. I was like, I, this is hi. All right.

1 (50m 11s):
I think I should get off this rollercoaster right now, but it's already going, right?

7 (50m 16s):
Yeah, totally. I just like was on. And because I didn't have like necessarily the support of my parents where this entire thing, I was like, fight or flight. Like I will do this. If I have to hang on to the side of the building and sleep like that, or like, whatever it is, I'm gonna do this. So I did it.

2 (50m 49s):
And is it a typical curriculum, voice and speech and movement and all that stuff?

7 (50m 54s):
Yeah. I was sort of surprised by all of it. The program that I did in undergrad, I felt, I don't know. I guess everyone in undergrad, if you're doing theater stuff there, you think that like, what you're doing is like enough and great. And that's how everything's going to go. So to spend like three hours a day in a movement class, suddenly when you're like, God damn it, let me do a monologue or a scene or sing a song. Like let me work. You know, I understand that that is also work and it's fundamental, but it was really shocking to me.

1 (51m 37s):
You know, what's interesting is like, and you're not the first person that I've, I felt this, that we've had on the show is like, what I would eat. Like you should have maybe gone right to second city and just done that call that five-year conservatives And gotten the fuck out, but it's not accredited. It's not like a real university that would probably make your parents even more like unhappy. And so, but like you needed like a professional program, like there's conservatory training for actors and then there's professional programs. And I wish I had done, so. Okay. But you're in this. How long was the Roosevelt MFA program?

7 (52m 15s):
Three years. Oh,

1 (52m 16s):
Fuck. Right.

2 (52m 18s):
And was it the thing where you can't perform the first year, but then you do and you're in the casting pool with VFS.

7 (52m 26s):
Yeah, I, we couldn't perform in the first year though, at the end of the first semester, they opened up an audition to be an intern at Chicago Shakespeare, which was like super exciting. So I auditioned and then I was doing the second semester, I got to be an intern and be on stage and do king Lear, Chicago, Shakespeare. I mean, I was like, you know, a dude, a homeless person running around. Oh, we got it. Yeah. So then I was like, oh no, this is great. I'm like with like these amazing people that I don't know who they are yet, but I will.

7 (53m 9s):
And there, those people are amazing

2 (53m 12s):
In that

7 (53m 13s):
Greg VIN CLER.

1 (53m 15s):
Oh yeah. <inaudible> was Barbara Gaines directing

7 (53m 18s):
Barbara Gaines director.

1 (53m 20s):
Yeah. She's amazing. She's she's famous for, for me, for my one audition I had there, she yawned during my whole model to be fair, but to be fair, it was really boring. Like, it was really boring. She was basically doing what I wish I could have done. It was boring. My shit was boring. She was like this. Can't see. But yeah, she was rude, but apropos I sucked anyway. Okay. So you were, you got to work at shakes and so you were like, okay, but did you make friends? What was the vibe like? BFA was the BFA program established at that time?

7 (54m 2s):
I think so. Oh, and that part. Okay. Like whatever I'll say about Roosevelt, which I don't have, I don't know necessarily great things to say about the program. It doesn't even exist anymore, PS, by the way. But the BFA program, the program for undergrads, I thought that was like, excellent. Like, I was like happy for those kids. Like that seemed like good. And they were having a good time, but for us it was just, I don't know. It just felt kind of sad and different.

2 (54m 26s):
So your parents were psyched about the idea of you being a journalist. That's what they thought you were going to.

7 (54m 32s):
I think the imaginary plan was that I would, or what I sold them at the time was I'm gonna get this journalism degree and then I'm gonna go to law school.

1 (54m 43s):
Oh,

2 (54m 45s):
Right. That's everybody's, catch-all hilarious.

7 (54m 48s):
So that's what I'm going to do. But then I was like, but these plays, these people, it's really the people that are purchased more fun.

2 (54m 57s):
I actually got dressed so many people in for exactly that reason. It's just something that's like tribal feeling that you don't know that you don't have it until you find it. And then you go, oh my God.

7 (55m 8s):
Yeah. It was really, it was really all encompassing. I was like, well, I can't not be with these people.

2 (55m 15s):
What kind of shows did you do there at Roosevelt?

7 (55m 18s):
I all right. So, so there was that first year experience. And then I don't know. I let's see, I did my last year.

1 (55m 30s):
Yeah. It just sticks out in your brain

7 (55m 33s):
Threepenny opera. And then there was this weird Asian adoptation of the rope by whatever old Greek guy,

2 (55m 47s):
Asian adaptation.

7 (55m 48s):
So here's one of the weird things about the program. So there were a couple of classes that made zero sense that we were taking as actors. One was, we all had to take a stage management management course. I don't know. Did you guys have to know

1 (56m 5s):
I

7 (56m 5s):
Was like

1 (56m 5s):
Crew, but I don't even know. No.

7 (56m 8s):
Well, yeah, like working on a cruise, like that's normal, but in an entire semester demo devoted to stage management just seems kind of rude.

2 (56m 18s):
It sounds like they needed stage managers for their shows

1 (56m 22s):
Teachers. Yeah.

7 (56m 25s):
And then there is a professor there who white lady who loved Asian theater. And so, yeah. Pause for that

1 (56m 37s):
PF chains of, she was trying to be the PF Chang's PF J

7 (56m 44s):
God lover. I mean, yes. I'm interested in Asian theater too, but everyone was required as part of the MFA program to take an Asian theater class. So, which is interesting. I'm not knocking like any of that, but the PA I don't know the possibility of me being in an Asian.

2 (57m 7s):
Yeah. Like what's the really,

1 (57m 11s):
It just sounds like she had a thing for her thing was Asian theater and she wanted everyone else's thing.

7 (57m 16s):
Total your thing. She had studied in, I don't know, Japan, I think, and had done this whole program and it was like her, she may even have like a PhD on it. I don't really know, but that was her thing and good for her. Awesome.

1 (57m 31s):
Why are you teaching? But it's

7 (57m 33s):
Not practical. Yeah. It just seems like weird. So the play I did, I did the, the rope, which is like a Greek play. Never

2 (57m 42s):
Heard of it.

1 (57m 43s):
I wish you had done the rain anyway.

7 (57m 48s):
So she translated the play into a Kyogen style thing, which is a very specific Asian theater style play. Not only that, not only that, but like, I have always been openly unapologetically sort of who I am, which means, hello, I'm a homosexual and it's clear and I'm not like afraid of that as an actor or a person. So I played the, yeah, get ready. I played the, I don't want to call it like the evil sister, but I played like the villain in the play, which was like an older, which type woman in the play.

7 (58m 40s):
And that was supposed to be hilarious.

1 (58m 48s):
That's really where we're headed in the arts. I'm also saying the arts in the logs shit went down. Not that

7 (58m 56s):
Some weird shipments out. Yeah. So it's like thinking about that now you would like wants to like light all of Chicago on fire. Right? Correct. But at the time, this I guess was like, cool, cool. And inventive to make the one gay guy that you were Sure was gay play a woman Asian drag. Oh my gosh. The whole thing is like Asian themed rides. <inaudible> and the whole thing I don't, I can't say for sure, but I don't think

1 (59m 39s):
So. What the fuck?

7 (59m 42s):
So just a bunch of white people running around and kimonos speaking in a very like, you know, meter to style Asian thing. And I'm a woman also.

2 (59m 53s):
I wish we had a video. I really want to watch this play. I mean, just like for a snippet, because you know, when you think of yourself and how seriously you took a role when you were young and you and you, and you just in your mind's eye, even if there's no video and you just imagine, like, what does this actually look like? And that's always looks funny, no matter what or sad. If it's a comedy, it looks sad. And if it's True. So that was one. Did you have any roles that you liked?

7 (1h 0m 29s):
I mean, kind of, well, there was like a, a directing project that one of my friends did. It was like a Steve Martin one act. And I was like, yeah, right. Like it was like a legit play that was like funny and good. And I had like the lead and I was like, it was like us, like a straight man that I was playing. And I like felt excited because it felt like I was like reaching. I'm not reaching, but you know what I mean? You're like, oh, this is a play. I'm like, yeah. I was like, do a thing. And I like am working for this goal to do. And I felt like I was successful in it and it felt good.

7 (1h 1m 9s):
But like, that was probably the one, even in my thesis role, which was like, I was like a random chorus person in Threepenny opera, literally it's my third year. I'm like, Hmm. I have to write 30 pages now on yeah. That's, it's like that.

1 (1h 1m 27s):
The thing like that, I just, and maybe you guys could chime in. And in terms of the curriculum, there doesn't seem to be an actual curriculum for these programs. Like now that I'm teaching, I'm like, wait, what, what is the

7 (1h 1m 42s):
Tactical?

1 (1h 1m 43s):
And what is the piece of paper that you can point to, to say, this is the mission of these three years for these MFA actors. There is no plan. What is the plan? That's what I feel about a lot of this is, and it's still to this day in, in conservatories, what is the fucking plan? Because there doesn't seem to be one and there's not a plan. We shouldn't be charging dollars to these people. I just, I, it should be, then it should be camp, a freak out where we go when we, I don't know. Anyway. So

2 (1h 2m 15s):
I mean, honestly, like it's, it needs to be treated a little bit more like a school and pass fail, right?

7 (1h 2m 23s):
Yeah. Like the goal it's like, if you're a journalist, like, can you do these things? Can you write a bituaries? Can you write a news story? Can you do the, you know what I mean? So it's like, when I leave this place, am I going to be able to get a job? And I know that like, everyone's like, theater's like, oh gosh, you're never going to work or whatever, but that, it's just not true. It's like, everything is the same. There are basic skills. Do you have them,

1 (1h 2m 50s):
There are milestones to meet along the way. And if you, I mean, anyway, I it's just, the more we interview folks, the more I'm like, oh, this whole higher ed situation, fine arts needs a whole overhaul. I don't know what it's going to take, but we'll probably be extinct on the planet before it happened. So I just feel like maybe that's the way it's going to go and okay. But like, okay, so you graduate, you then are like, okay, I have this MFA. Then what happens to you

7 (1h 3m 21s):
By the end of the program? I was really like, I don't know. I feel like it kind of, it kind of broke me because things like that were happening, which in a way is like, I mean, at the time we didn't have the language for like, you know, playing an Asian woman in a play, like it's offensive. And it's like, not furthering me. It's racist. It's not furthering me as an actor. I'm not going to leave here and like run around and Komodo and place for the rest of my life. It just kind of broke me. And a lot of the, I would say some of the teachers, the whole situation just didn't make me feel good.

7 (1h 4m 4s):
So at the end, I was like, you know what, maybe? Hm. I don't know. I need, I needed a break from that whole world. I mean, I did audition for awhile, but the shortest while

1 (1h 4m 21s):
How short,

7 (1h 4m 26s):
Maybe it was a couple years

1 (1h 4m 28s):
Because we have Gina's trajectory and mine, mine too. Like I stopped after I stopped after three.

7 (1h 4m 35s):
Yeah. I was probably three years. Like slowly, just petered out. I mean, I got to the point where I'm like going. So I went on a few theater auditions in the beginning and then I had an agent and I would go on these, like on camera calls. And I would just be like, oh my God, I'm in this giant room with a hundred people that are dressed and look just like me. This is the most pressing thing. Like, I just was like, I can't, this isn't, this doesn't feel good either.

2 (1h 5m 6s):
I want to hear how eventually, how we get to storytelling. But before we do, I just, I didn't want to leave the whole Roosevelt thing without, I don't think I've really asked anybody this before, but you're not the first person who basically says to us, like, I'm gay. They didn't know what to do with me in theater school. Right.

7 (1h 5m 30s):
So

2 (1h 5m 32s):
I don't know if this is a question or a comment or what, or like just a prompt for discussion, but what is the barrier there? I mean, it seems like what you're saying about this role that you got cast, it's like, you're gay. So you'd like to wear drag. Is that what the thinking was?

7 (1h 5m 47s):
I don't know. For me, it's two things. It's like, there's the gay thing for sure. But also I'm funny. So if you're in a serious theater program, please understand I'm doing some heavy air quotes because every theater program thinks they're a serious theater program. They really do not know what to do with people who are fitting into the definition of serious. And so I think yes, there is like me, the stereotypical gay person or whatever, if I am so there's that person, but that's usually a funny person.

7 (1h 6m 28s):
And so then they don't like it totally. This is serious. We're doing real serious work here. How can this work?

1 (1h 6m 38s):
It makes that, that makes me, it makes sense. And it also makes me so angry, just Raging, also like fucking pick different motherfucking material. You've that fits your mother fucking class. You dumb fucks. That is what we're supposed to be doing is picking material that highlight our students and help them grow in a way and not the pick different place.

7 (1h 7m 3s):
Well, that's really where in that and the whole situation, I feel like that's, that's what sort of killed me is that there wasn't a place for me. No one cared to create one and you are, I already felt like I don't fit here. I don't belong. And so it's just like that slowly, just really like sinks in. So you've got that going on. You've got your there with 30 actors and it was kind of, honestly, it was sort of like easy to just like hide, you know, unless I'm being called to play the Asian lady on the play. So it's just like a kind of just was like, eh,

1 (1h 7m 43s):
Yeah, you gave up. But they gave up on at first.

7 (1h 7m 48s):
It is honestly,

1 (1h 7m 50s):
We give up when people give up on us first, especially as young people.

2 (1h 7m 53s):
That's true. That's true. So you're in audition rooms after school. You're, you're feeling like this is depressing. There's 5,000 mess and we all look the same. How, how did, how did you evolve from that to what you're currently doing, which I'm going to go on a limb and say is fulfilling to you artistically fulfilling to you what you're doing?

7 (1h 8m 13s):
I would say yes. Okay. How did that happen? I mean, after, you know, just deciding I'm not going to go on these calls anymore. I just, like, I was like, okay, then I'll, I'm working in a restaurant. So that's what I'm, I'm gonna work in. I work in restaurants now. That's what I do. And I did that for a while. And then I was just like, okay, but wow, this can't be it. Like, even if you, as an actor, like whatever level you achieve as an actor, I think there's always that part of you. Who's like, yeah, but like, can I talk somewhere?

7 (1h 8m 54s):
And people just like to listen to me or just let me tell, you know, just get really enthusiastic with storytelling at a party. Or like, whatever. I, I didn't know about the moth or a storytelling or any of that stuff. I really was just like this theater experience, grad school was so bad for me. And I'm too afraid to go to second city to do improv because I had sat through, you know, the first year of friends doing that. And I was like, well, I'm not doing this terrifying. So I thought, Hey, what if I get some actors together?

7 (1h 9m 37s):
And we will write monologues, which is how I thought of it at the beginning, it'll be like loosely based on a theme and we'll do a monologue show. I think I had just seen Nora Ephron's play love loss and what I wore. And so there's all these women on stage telling this like, story. And I was like, oh my God, I'm not a playwright. I can never like, make this happen necessarily. But like, if there are people on a stage and then they're just like one by one, like telling a story based on a theme, like, oh my gosh, this is revolutionary. I've just invented this whole new thing. So that is sort of where I started.

1 (1h 10m 14s):
When was that? I'm sorry, what was that?

7 (1h 10m 17s):
2010

2 (1h 10m 19s):
And tell, tell everybody where it is now.

7 (1h 10m 23s):
Well, now it's at Steppenwolf, which breaks my brain Back to the theater. Yeah.

2 (1h 10m 32s):
Do you feel any? Okay, so the feeling of walking into Steppenwolf with this thing that you're walking in the door before you walked in the door, you already know they want you, what's that feeling like? And D are you thinking about yourself as an actor or the old sense of as, as you thought of yourself at the time as an actor?

7 (1h 10m 54s):
Definitely. I think as it goes on more and more, I get confused. Like, am I an actor? Am I this writer person? And I understand now more and more than it does, like that definition, does it matter? Like the distinction doesn't matter, but yeah, like I regularly am in communication with like, like, like it makes me emotional. I'm like regularly in communication with the kid and what his dreams were and what he wanted to achieve and how you can get to a place beyond your dreams. And it just might not be exactly how you think it's going to be or what it looks like or any of that stuff.

1 (1h 11m 33s):
Yes. I love that. I mean, I think it's also important for our listeners to just thoroughly to say that again, like the way I thought I was going to get somewhere did not go down that, and it's not, it's still transforming. And yet I am so grateful that it didn't go down that way that I thought it was going to go down for so many reasons. But when we are 21 and 22 and 24, it is like the hugest tragedy to think that we would have to say goodbye to sitting in a room with 5,000 of us that look just like us and have to go to the restaurant and then go to the storytelling community and then end up back at Steppenwolf.

1 (1h 12m 17s):
We can't fathom that. That would be a good thing. It's the best thing.

7 (1h 12m 21s):
It's the best thing. I mean, ultimately like whatever happened to me there and that time, and a lot of it I'm responsible for whatever happened to me. I'm grateful for. I feel like it taught me a lot of, a lot of lessons.

2 (1h 12m 38s):
I agree with what you just said, boss, but I'm going to offer a little bit of a counterpoint, which is it's got, it's hard to make the distinction between what you just said. And what's, that's definitely true for, for my life. Like my idea of how I was going to get somewhere, because I couldn't be literally just like that a to B to C that I just thought I had to let it go all the way. But, but there's a difference between that and knowing you really have something and you need to stick with it because the average time that it really takes a seven years, right. For somebody knocking around a dish, and that's what you hear a lot, like seven years, it was eight years. It was 10 years before I finally, so like, how does a PR person who's maybe just graduating this year, listening to this?

2 (1h 13m 22s):
How are they going to, how do they select that for themselves? It's a question for both of you.

1 (1h 13m 27s):
Do you mean how do you know? Like, whether it's time to do something else or just keep at it? Oh, I think it becomes for me, it's like, if it feels intolerable and like, you want to die and you're depressed and anxious all the time, but it's time to try something else. Like literally that's what it took for me. It was like, no, no, I'm going to act, I'm going to try it. I'm going to go to LA. And then even though I work for Nick cage, I'm going to do it. I'm still an actor inside. This is really my calling. And then in oh seven, trying again, when I'm a therapist, no, I'm really an actor. And I think it wasn't until I was like, oh no, no, no. Like I had, for me was like, I knew that the cost of pretending that the hustle of trying to be an actor was too great.

1 (1h 14m 9s):
And it was, I got too old and I was taking too much of a toll on my mental and physical, mostly mental and emotional health that I was like, no, it's time to pivot. But like, I think, and I think you're right. Beans. And what I'm hearing is like, every kid has to know that for them has to go through it for themselves. And sometimes people take seven years of that and then they, something hits and it's like, they find their stride. And sometimes after seven years something hits and they still realize they're miserable. Even after something hits, like even after they get the role. So for me, it's a mental health check at all times to know if the shit is working, but yeah. Who knows what the Jeremy, what?

7 (1h 14m 47s):
No, I fully agree with that whole thing. It's like, you don't know. I just, like I had like that little nugget of, I'm not a restaurant person. Like I'm really good at pretend. Like, I mean, I'm okay at math, but I'm like really going to be like the office manager forever. I mean, currently I'm an office manager somewhere, but like that is it like, that's the end of the line after all of this work and like all this stuff. I mean, I love theater. I love being a part of any thing with theater. So like, that is the end. And I, I think for me, it's just like my anxiety and my like stress, mental health, all that stuff. I finally, it was just like, no, listen, like I have to like get somehow on the other side of that and pursue this because I, this cannot be, this is not enough.

2 (1h 15m 37s):
Yeah. And I guess if, if I think back to myself at that time, my feeling about trying to be an actor wasn't that it made me depressed and anxious. The thing that was in the back of my mind that I would've never put in the front of my mind is nobody will ever want me there's this is a few tile. Like, yes, I want to do this. Yes. I don't want to do anything, but this, yes, I have never wanted to have another career besides this, but it doesn't work for me because nobody's ever going to want me. So it was all like a self-defeating thing, which is different than, you know, actually interacting with the world and seeing if they want me for not.

1 (1h 16m 12s):
And I think, I wonder what would have happened, like to two people like you and me, or just to you, if you had said, okay, well, fuck that voice for a second. And what if, if I wonder if the voice gets quieted for a while, like, let's say you had landed on a big TV show for whatever reason, you're the star. I wonder what manifestation that voice would, how that voice would manifest itself. Even if you were doing a thing that you thought was the thing that we wanted to do. And we'll, we won't know because thank God you didn't do that because it could have led to disaster or not. But I just it's like that voice, whatever I keep inside, I always am wondering, okay, like, even if this consulting practice takes off, if I don't address my voice that says, nobody, you have nothing to say, dah, dah, dah, will that ever really fully take off and make me happy?

1 (1h 16m 60s):
It's so interesting. It's like, I don't know. I think it's like fucking trial and error, dude. Everything, everything, everything.

7 (1h 17m 7s):
I agree though. I do like, and more think that in, I don't know what the class would be, but I feel like somewhere along the line in theater school, there should be somebody who goes around and tells everyone that there's more than one path. Like if you're not you're, if you're not going to play Juliet, like if that's like your whole life goal, like there are other ways like stand up is a way storytelling is a way, like, there are so many ways to be involved. And just because you're not auditioning and doing monologues and like I'm in a play or I'm auditioning for a commercial, like there are so many ways to be like a performing artist or, you know, so many ways, but none of them have the respect that like, you know, I'm doing Shakespeare or whatever thing,

2 (1h 17m 57s):
Right. There should be somebody who wants to be around. Like they have on sets, somebody from equity or from bag or whatever, walking around and being like, is everybody treating you? Okay. They need to have a para, a paraprofessional. And

7 (1h 18m 10s):
Or maybe you just like in an audition room, just being like, you know what, sweetheart, like, I, I see your stress, the seeder sweating. And I want you to know that there's more than just like this carpet commercial or whatever,

2 (1h 18m 22s):
Doula and acting doula. Right. A comforting person,

1 (1h 18m 29s):
You know? Like I feel like it, it does fall on sort of us as well. I'll speak for myself. I got an older generation middle-aged now I'm middle-aged now. And it's like, when I go in, I remember the first time I went in with a young sister and I played her mom in an audition, right. For television or something. And she was like shaking and believe me, I still shake sometimes. But she was like, shaky, can't see it on the podcast. But she was shaking, shaking. And I just turned to her and I said, listen, which was lovely. Maybe 17, 16. I said,

7 (1h 18m 59s):
Oh my God,

1 (1h 18m 60s):
I was in high school. Still. This was like a special, she was like one of those good, like beautiful kids that went from in high school to, to real audition, you know? And I said, listen, we're not going to die in there. We're going to die one day, but we're not going to fucking die in that room. My friend, we're going to go in there, we're going to do these like lines about the alcoholic mom and the daughter, and then you're going to be okay. And she was like, thank you, thank you so much. And she still shook and it didn't make her up, but I just want her to know that like, listen, like I see,

7 (1h 19m 28s):
Well,

1 (1h 19m 28s):
I also see you, I see what's happening here. And I just want to acknowledge that. Like, it feels really scary, but I see that, that you're, I guess that's all I just want because nobody ever, I mean, that was how I felt. And you said it, Jeremy at the, at the theater school is that nobody ever saw me for who I really was and said, Hey, you have a gift for X, Y, and Z, whatever that is. You have no one sees when you don't feel seen, you just stop seeing yourself. And then it's all downhill from there. So I think people really want to be seen, especially young actors and,

7 (1h 20m 3s):
Well, I mean, I was like 24. Like, can you remember being 24? Like that is like first off, like the worst miserable time. And they're like, am I supposed to be making this big adult choice? And like, no, one's there for me. Like, I mean, there are certainly exceptions to that, but

1 (1h 20m 23s):
Yeah.

7 (1h 20m 23s):
Yeah.

2 (1h 20m 24s):
So like, would it be fair to say that when you were growing up, I mean, you, you weren't planning to necessarily be an actor your whole life, but what would be fair to say that one of the things that was really gratifying to you when you found your people wa was that you had an occasion to speak in a context where people understood you and, and appreciated you, that you didn't have that before.

7 (1h 20m 50s):
I mean, yeah, you definitely, I mean, when I found theater people, I would say that that happens. Like I was like, oh, I something in my brain, just like you connect to like a group of people. And Logista just there's I don't know. You know, there's like, there's something about like theater people and it's like, you either have that, like your end antennas up for that like message and that community, or you don't. And I feel like when I landed with them, I felt like together or somehow

2 (1h 21m 26s):
A little bit more about what you're doing a symbol of. I mean, you have a podcast and it's a storytelling podcast, but no. Okay. It's just a Steppenwolf. Say, say more about it.

7 (1h 21m 37s):
I wish I had a podcast, but I'm like, I can't like I'm doing, I'm like a one man band. So like, if I could make a podcast happen, I would do that. Like somebody do that for me. So it's, we're at 71 May 26th, 27th and 28. The show is the theme is joy. So there are eight performers and all telling a story based on that theme, which is interesting. I think it's Brenda Brown. Who's like says, if you ask people to tell you about like joy, they're gonna tell you about the heartache, that how they got to, instead of, I was imagining, this is the first time I've done a show in like two and a half years.

7 (1h 22m 20s):
I'm so excited. Let's celebrate. And then I get, I take submissions for the show. And so, so many of them, I was like, Ooh, maybe this was the wrong. So many are. And they're wonderful. They're beautiful. But it's like, so many of them have a heartbreak or loss or you just like things that happen that I was like,

1 (1h 22m 47s):
The show is called, you're being ridiculous. And just tell us quickly about the title. What about that? Because it's a very specific title.

7 (1h 22m 54s):
I had a blog early on when I first moved to Chicago and I made my friend name it. And if we, this is like, not even like a story story, but like, I guess one point I, we started saying that is like a thing to each other. Like you're being ridiculous about everything you're being ridiculous. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to start a blog. And that's what it's going to be called. And then the blog. And then it was like, when I was doing the show, it was like, what should I call it? Oh, well you're being ridiculous.

2 (1h 23m 22s):
But how did you get from the blog to the, I mean, you just, I guess you said you had the idea, it felt like a new art form to

7 (1h 23m 32s):
You.

2 (1h 23m 33s):
Right. And, and you found it, a lot of people who were willing to, is it mostly actors who you found that have been willing to write a story and tell it?

7 (1h 23m 41s):
Well, there's like the storytelling there's like, now there's like a storytelling community at the beginning. I was like, oh, I have some actor, friends. And those are the people that I can get to do it. And now it's like, there's like a mix of both story people and actor people. There's like actors. I love that I want to work with. And so I like will beg people to do it. Like Sam Irby, Jen has done it, actors in the world. I'm trying to think Molly. Right.

2 (1h 24m 12s):
Okay.

1 (1h 24m 13s):
It's so fun. And it's also really cool for, for those of us who dreamed of, so when I graduated at the theater school, I was in a Steppenwolf kids show. Right. And then that, and then I thought I had made it right. And then I went away and did an act. So coming back to do your show at Steppenwolf, I was like, oh my God, I'm back in the Steppenwolf dressing room. And it looks very different of course, but it's fancy. It feels fancy. There is something about it that legitimizes for me the 18 20, 24 year old saying, okay, I am back at this institution that I felt I was not wanted at for 20 years. And now here I am. And also the cool thing about your show is that I had the feeling of, oh, and this time I'm here, I'm doing it my way.

7 (1h 25m 1s):
Right. I feel the same way. Like I just going there, like every time, the first, like the first night that we do it, every time we've done it there, every time I get like emotional and like connecting with, you know, all of that theater school stuff. And like, I'm here. Like, I don't know if this means anything or is real, is real or like, whatever, but it's just like connects with, I got here and I got here in my own way.

2 (1h 25m 30s):
Do you still have a desire to act?

7 (1h 25m 34s):
That's what I almost wanted to have like a, like a therapy session with you guys about like, I have written a solo show, but I'm like, so traumatized by everything. We've just talked about that I'm having a really hard, like I, right before the pandemic, actually, it was supposed to be at Steppenwolf right before the pandemic. I wrote this, the show and had a reading with friends and then I like made myself schedule it with them. And it was like one of the first things that died in the pandemic was the solo show. And so I need to like, get back to that and do it, but I'm having a really hard time.

7 (1h 26m 14s):
Like, I feel like wildly afraid, but also, I mean, your question is like, do we want to do like theater stuff again? And I'm like, yeah. I mean, I do. I feel like both wildly afraid and like more grounded and confident at the same time about my abilities and his as an actor, even though I haven't acted. I don't know.

2 (1h 26m 42s):
When you think of when you can feel the feeling of fear, is it like, nobody's going to show up, I'm going to forget my lines. It's not going to be good. What's the fear,

7 (1h 26m 52s):
All of those things

1 (1h 26m 55s):
I think, I think. Yeah. And I, I hear you. And I also wonder something that cook hers to me was occurring to me about you throughout this whole interview, is that you, you could be the next John Oliver. I have this feeling about you. That is like gonna mix journalism and your funniness and your, your solo show ness about having a, I'm just wondering if you could view it as your solo show being sort of, I don't know, an experiment in and being curious about what it is, first of all, what could it look like?

1 (1h 27m 35s):
What is it? And also, I, I think that there's something about journalism that really sticks out for me, for you, like in terms of your wit and in terms of your passion, and we've never seen someone like you with your own sort of talk show type situation. So I'm just that it's like some Weird, like fruit, fruit, like I got intuition while you were telling me

2 (1h 27m 58s):
What, if you did a storytelling talk show? What if you, what if you got so good at helping people identify what their own stories were that you could do it with just a crowd of regular people, right?

1 (1h 28m 10s):
Yeah. I like just, I think, and I love that. And I think that the, that what I'm getting at is like, if you can approach, like, okay, the only way I get on a plane is if I look at how am I being of service by where I'm going. Okay. So, okay. That's the only way, cause I'm petrified to fly. So what if with your solo show, we took the same approach, which is okay. Like whether it's service or not. I don't know, but thought about it in a different way in terms of how to get it done. Like, is there a greater purpose than my fear? That's the only way I do think that I'm afraid of

7 (1h 28m 46s):
It was like changed my life with that question because like, I also can't stand the fly. I literally drive everywhere because I can't deal. I can't deal with it.

1 (1h 28m 54s):
So I'm wondering,

7 (1h 28m 56s):
What's that question again? I'm literally going to write it down.

1 (1h 28m 59s):
I don't remember, but we recorded

7 (1h 29m 0s):
The greater,

2 (1h 29m 2s):
Oh, the question is what is, what is a greater purpose that's being served about doing this thing? Then my fear is, you know,

1 (1h 29m 12s):
Greater than my fear. And for me, if I know I'm going to, like, if Gina called me and said, I need you to fly here because I'm having a nervous breakdown or whatever, I would say, okay, I got to go. Like, there would be no. Oh, but I'm an anxious. I would be like, fuck it. Just get on the plane. Because I know that the thing I'm doing is greater than my fear,

7 (1h 29m 31s):
Meaning

1 (1h 29m 32s):
It motivates me more. Right. So

2 (1h 29m 35s):
Anyway, autobiographical year, one person show.

7 (1h 29m 38s):
Yes.

2 (1h 29m 39s):
Okay.

7 (1h 29m 40s):
If you're

2 (1h 29m 40s):
Afraid of that.

7 (1h 29m 41s):
Well, so that, but I mean, a lot of it is like stuff I've done before for the show. So I don't know.

1 (1h 29m 48s):
You see the differences, this is all about you. So like the solo show becomes there's nowhere to hide, right? So there's nowhere to hide. There's no other performers, there's no other,

7 (1h 29m 58s):
I'm

1 (1h 29m 59s):
Curating other people's vision. You know,

2 (1h 30m 2s):
I volunteered to be your solo show doula. I've always here For, you could just bounce. Like, I mean, one of, probably many people that you would do, but you know, send me your outline and say, does it, and, and ask me what you know, asked me if, what your fear about how it's coming across. Ask me if that's true and I'll tell you,

7 (1h 30m 25s):
Right. Just

2 (1h 30m 29s):
No, I'm, I'm, I'm all about it because I actually, one of the greatest things BAAs has taught me is how to, how to always be thinking about how to be of service. Even when you're doing something that just feels like selfish. And it's just delightful to you. I mean, it's delightful for me to do anything related to theater. And if I could do it and be of service to another person, that's so much better,

7 (1h 30m 53s):
Right?

1 (1h 30m 53s):
Like it's, it's when you find for me, when I find my jam, right? Like my jam of whatever it is that it doesn't feel like it literally doesn't feel like work. And I never, I always thought that was the biggest load of crap being an immigrant's daughter. Like I was like, you work is work. Fuck you. It's supposed to feel hard and then you're going to die. And that's how it is. But now I'm like, oh, wait a second. I know what they mean. When they say, if you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life. It's not about that. It's about like what my mom's whole vision of that was it's about what I feel energized by when I find my jam and I'm being of service,

2 (1h 31m 26s):
The energy. That's what it's about, man. It's totally about the thing that gives you energy instead of stopping your energy. Yeah.

1 (1h 31m 32s):
We're making you so afraid because fear, fear, SAPs energy, right? So it's like how to use it as in a way, find you you'll find your juice. And also it's okay to be afraid and like we know and do things anyway. And, but I think the purpose, finding that purpose for the show of service, which will take you out of your fear eventually. Not at first

7 (1h 31m 55s):
Right now. I know that too. Yeah. I mean the whole reason for the show. I mean, other like feeling like I'm getting, like, I'm doing theater again, my own way, then I'm fully in charge of, is the idea of being of service to other people, of offering the space to other people, to be able to, to have both be able to tell their story and to be able to do it at Steppenwolf is like, that is like, yeah,

1 (1h 32m 21s):
I will fucking dress up as you and do the goddamn show.

2 (1h 32m 26s):
So, so when you're ready to map, what does your one person should have a title?

7 (1h 32m 31s):
No, I can't figure it out.

2 (1h 32m 34s):
When you're being ridiculous is a, is mounting a Steppenwolf. You'll come back on the podcast and you'll tell us all about how you got there. How look you look back and you say, after that, I started thinking, and then I did, because that's all it is. It's like, you have the thought, you get a little encouragement, you do a little work on it. You let it sit, you go back. And then before you know it it's done. It's not always this monolith.

1 (1h 32m 59s):
Yeah. She's absolutely right. And then the, the other thing I was just going to say is there was before my solo show, this, this, this friend I had, who I'm no longer friends with because she was problematic. But she said to me, someone out there needs to hear what you have to say. So fuck you. And your fear basically, which works for me because that was how my mom did it. And she was like, someone needs to hear what you have to say, who are you to deny that shit, fucking talk to that person. And I'd be like, oh, I could talk to that person. I can't talk to these 10 people because there's probably an 11 in the audience, but I could talk to that one person. And it made it, she was like, fuck you get out there. Someone has to hear what you have to say, who are you to do? Like Renee brown says, or whoever Marianne, Williamson, whatever, those fucking, you know, smart white ladies say about like, you know, like who are you to deny your talent?

1 (1h 33m 45s):
Who are you like? No.

2 (1h 33m 48s):
Yeah. Don't, don't, don't keep your light under a barrel is out this expression.

1 (1h 33m 53s):
I like that better. Don't get your monkeys than the barrel. <inaudible>

3 (1h 34m 11s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plea chief, or the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our [e-mail]. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

What is I Survived Theatre School?

We went to theatre school. We survived it, but we didn't understand it. 20 years later, we're talking to our guests about their experience of going for this highly specialized type of college at the tender age of 18. Did it all go as planned? Are we still pursuing acting? Did we get cut from the program? Did we... become famous yet?