I'm Travis Bader, and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the
people in businesses that comprise the community.
If you're a new to Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca we can
learn more about courses, services and products
that we offer as well as how you can join The
Silvercore Club, which includes 10 million
in north America wide liability insurance to
ensure you are properly covered during your
outdoor adventures.
So today I'm sitting down with Matt Mendel, who is
a connoisseur of watches, knives, firearms.
It just so happens to be the general manager and
partner in Wanstalls, a premium firearms
retailer in Maple Ridge, British Columbia.
Matt, welcome to The Silvercore Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
What an intro.
Hey, I worked on that a little bit.
There you go.
So Wanstalls, you know, I've been watching
what you guys have been doing for a long time.
You guys were involved everywhere.
I see you involved with shooting matches.
In fact, there was one justice last
weekend, I think it was a precision rimfire
match out in Merritt.
Uh, you're getting rave reviews all over the
internet for customer service and for, you
carry products that other people are carrying.
How did this come to be?
Because I haven't always had Wanstalls
on my radar.
Um, but for the last number of years now,
you guys just seem to be pushing further and
further into the, uh, uh, top of the end of what
people are talking about in firearms retailers.
Oh, thank you for the very nice
compliment there.
Um, yeah, no, the a Wanstalls has been
around, uh, in one form or another, uh, in Maple
Ridge here since 1973.
Um, it it's been a gun store, outdoor
store and the original owner, Tony Wanstalls.
Uh, and his brother ran it, um, in 2000 and
he's going to get mad at me, but in 2006, I
believe, uh, my partner, Craig Jones left
his job and actually purchased Wanstalls.
So Wanstalls was like a, kind of a sleepy town
gun shop at that time.
It was, you know, they had like a few rifles
and stock and you'd go in for your hunting
season and say, I need a box, a 30-06.
And he would be like, no problem, I'll order
it and it'll be here in two weeks, you know,
one box of federal blue box or whatever it was.
Um, and when Craig, my partner took it
over and Craig is a hardcore gun guy.
Like he loves firearms, all different types and
he built the business into an actual true gun
shop that stocked the coolest stuff that, you
know, we could really get our hands on.
Totally.
So, '06.
Uh, how old would have you been at that point?
In 2006, I just graduated high school and I started
my first job at a gun store somewhere else.
So when did you get involved with Wanstalls?
Um, in 2013, I was working for Canada
Ammo at the time.
And, um, they ended up approaching me through,
they knew me through Canada Ammo and, uh,
offered me a job.
So it was kinda more in the direction I wanted
to be in where it was.
Um, the product I was really excited to,
um, be selling and bringing in was more so
what they were doing.
So over, I went.
So you just went from an employee to partner?
I did, yeah.
Yeah, I started at the bottom the worst,
like the absolute bottom of the bottom.
I uh, they originally brought me on to
do, uh, get their social media going.
Ahh okay.
Because, cause.
You're young and your hip.
Yeah.
I was young and hip apparently.
My, my now wife probably didn't, taught
me more than I knew.
Um, but uh, yeah, they brought me on and I
was kind of just like a floater to start.
Like they were just like, yeah, post some
stuff on social media.
I had this, like, it was essentially like
a, like a bar stool with another bar stool.
And that was like my desk with my laptop on it.
And I would be like over in the corner of the
gunsmithing room, just like a little internet
troll doing posts and stuff like that.
So did you find that that really helped
propel Wanstalls to use the social media side?
Yeah, social media, when we first started
it, it was a slow burn getting it started.
Um, but once it took off, um, it was like,
it's now probably one of the biggest parts of our
business beyond anything as far as advertising.
Really?
Yeah, and getting, uh, getting the product
and getting everything out to customers
is definitely our Instagram and Facebook,
our two biggest.
Right.
Assets.
See I'm wondering if, cause I get asked all the
time, from people saying I love firearms, I want
to make this my business.
I looked over and I saw so-and-so doing a
business and I think I could do it, but a
little bit different.
So I'm in my own new, niche market.
And sitting down with you and looking
at the success that you and Wanstalls
had over the years.
I'm wondering if this can be a little bit of
a, how to, for people to.
Or an insight into the firearms industry.
Like how does somebody go from being an employee
to being an owner?
And I mean, looking at your watch share, I
mean, it's a, you've got a nice watch, clearly
an aficionado here.
Um, there, there is a path in place, how
did you move your way through that?
Yeah.
Um, so I've been in retail in one way or
another, since I was about 12, my parents
owned a bookstore.
Um, and slave labor goes along with your
family owning any sort of business, I suppose.
So I was always working there, stocking
stuff out and helping customers and stuff.
And then, um, when I graduated high school,
I just, I knew that college wasn't for me.
Um, I just, I was done with people
telling me what to do and how to do it.
Um, so I went straight into the workforce.
Um, my dad has been selling cars for over
40 years and he was like, nah, you can
be successful like me son, come sell cars.
And like now, you know, 13, 14 years later.
And it was terrible advice.
Uh, you know, I don't know what father wants
a son to go selling used cars on the lot,
but, uh, anyways, that's where I went.
Yeah.
And it was all well and good for a little
while, but you know, I slowly came to the
realization there that, um, I didn't know.
I do love sales, but I don't like pressuring
people into sales and I want to sell somebody
something they want, not something they need.
Like, that's like a, oh, my car broke down.
I have to buy another car.
Right.
That's not an awesome experience for
anyone and, you know.
Totally.
So I just knew that, that my time there was
limited and I didn't know what I wanted to do.
Um, but I knew that that was not it.
Um, in the meantime I got my PAL while
I was working there.
I had been obsessed with guns since I was
a little kid, um, cap guns, pellet gun, you
know, all this stuff.
Sure.
All of us loved.
Sure.
Um.
It goes bang.
Yeah.
And that was my real first kind of
hobby I ever had.
You know, it was, uh, at that point it was,
think it was twenties.
And, um, I was just like, oh my, like, I
was just enthralled with everything about
guns and it wasn't just the fact they were
guns and guns are cool.
Like, you know, watching all the action
movies growing up, it was the mechanical
aspect of them.
It was just something I picked up on that I could
take any gun apart and put it back together.
And it still worked, you know.
Not like the watches right?
Yeah, exactly.
Or like an iPhone or like anything.
Right.
Like it was just one of those things
that clicked for me.
And I just became absolutely obsessed
with firearms and owning as many as I could get
and trying them all out and everything from
Milsurp's to modern, um, stuff, hunting rifles,
22's, like anything I could get my hands on.
Um, so I ended up actually leaving, um,
the car sell thing and.
Um, I was just going to chillin' at home, my
dad's basement, like, yeah, this is awesome,
this is the life.
And then my girlfriend now wife, Brittany, she's
like, you gotta probably get something going here.
And then I was like, well, I can't, you know,
typical young guy, you know, I'm not going
to work for the man.
You know, I'm not, I had to follow my dream.
Right.
But the reality of the fact is, um, you're
not going to be top dog out of the box.
Um, I started trying to open my own business,
um, doing outdoors and knife stuff like, you
know, packs and gear and stuff like that.
And I slowly came to the realization that like I
had a lot to learn and that's very humbling in
your twenties, right.
Like.
Totally.
That's.
Well, how old were you when you started that?
I was, I was right around 20 years old.
So young.
Super young.
Yeah.
So at a point where it's okay for you to fail and
group and try again and.
Yeah, so I, the business, I just quickly realized
that if you don't know the right people and you
don't have connections, and I'm not saying like
connections, as far as like, um, other people
in the industry, I'm talking about connections
as in like people who don't want to rip you off
when you want to build a website or anything
like that, right.
That quickly became, um, apparent that I had
a lot to learn about proper business dealings
and that was that.
So I went and got a part-time job at, um,
the local gun store out in Port Coquitlam
there at the time it was Blue Line Solutions.
Um, and yeah, it just started there.
And I was like, now I'm working the gun industry.
And the whole, the reality, the fact is
the only reason why I even got a job there.
I was like, I want a discount on guns
cause I'm buying so many, right?
Like, I'm like, I don't even care if I get a
paycheck really, I just.
Got the discount.
Yeah, I wanted a discount.
So, um, so yeah, I started there and,
um, that was a really interesting learning
experience because I had worked retail.
So, you know, basic stuff like working
with tills and, you know, shop maintenance
and stuff like that.
That's easy.
It was more so the government aspect of it
and the firearms aspect and being safe as far
as who you're handling, handing guns to and
all that kind of stuff.
And so we started there and yeah, that
was, I worked there part-time for a bit.
Learned learned a lot, um, both business-wise
and firearms wise, um, and then decided to part
ways with, um, Blue Line.
Yeah.
Um, did learn there, i, um, there was
two kind of partners in that business.
One was, uh, Joe Dlask and I specifically
remember I was working with Joe one day and
I w I always pick up on things with
people that I, like.
I always remember like very key moments
with people who make a difference.
And I remember the one thing I really
picked up and took away from Blue Line.
I was working with Joe one day and he was just
working like a madman, um, to get product out
from a distributor.
And he's like in his whole, his whole
reasoning was, it's about getting the product
out to the customer, like, cause it's cool
and people have been waiting for this stuff.
And um, that really struck me as like,
yeah, customer is number one, we're all in this
because we love firearms.
So it's always, you know, you always have to keep
in mind that yes, it is a business, but at the
end of the day, you, you you're doing this
because you love it.
So I always remember that with Joe, that his,
um, work ethic really inspired me to be like,
yeah, customer first customer, number one,
worry about everything.
Make sure that after the fact make sure the
customer is serviced in a very happy so.
You know, I've got a Joe story if you
want to hear it.
Yeah, for sure, man.
So when back before Silvercore Training
happened, I had Silvercore Gunworks
and it was my thought that I would be doing
gunsmithing for every Joe blow who comes
through and, and that.
The ultimate dream.
The ultimate dream, right.
Every kid wants to grow up to be a gunsmith.
And I was loving it.
I was learning a lot because every person who
came in and came with a different firearm in a
different, uh, different issue or different
problem and being young, I think it was 18, 19.
Like when I started that I everyone's expecting
a discount or a deal and everybody wants to pay.
Yeah.
And they, they all want to pay you in
like freezer bird meat from five-year-old.
Here's a six pack of beer and, you know.
Totally.
Yeah.
So anyways, so.
It was fun learning a lot.
And one of the things I got into was a
refinishing and I was doing bluing
and parkerizing and, uh, manganese and
zinc, FOS fading.
And I was having an issue getting some chemicals
across the border.
So I thought, well, how hard can this be?
And I went to a, to a lab and I got a qualitative
and quantitative analysis of, of a, uh, of a
batch of chemicals.
And I tried to reverse engineer it myself.
And there is a fellow who brought in a
firearm that he wanted to have parkerized.
And so I prepped the metal, got everything
as it ought to be.
And I made up my own solution based off of
the essential, reverse engineered list here.
And I, and I use it a test piece first
and it came out looking pretty good.
Right.
And in, in this solution, a little
bit of nickel helped the adhesion of the
manganese to the metal.
And, and there is a, I think it was
Florick acid that was also in here as well.
Anyways, on the carbon content, on the test
piece, it came out looking pretty good.
On the firearm I put in, the customer's
firearm, uh, it was just the barrel
that he wanted done.
So I put the barrel and it comes out and
I'm looking at, I'm like, I'm not happy
with how this looks.
Right.
And so I, I dip it in a little bit longer,
longer than I normally would, and they take it
out and I was like, ah, it's not the right color.
It's not what the guy'll want and try it
a little bit longer.
And I take it on and said, well,
you know what, I'm going to regroup.
I'm going to have to tell the client here
that we're going to have to wait for this
chemicals to come in.
And I took the barrel and I went to thread it
into the receiver and the thing slid in and
out of the receiver.
The chemical composition that I put together
was strong enough to have eaten the metal
to such a point.
Like, you look at it and it looked fine,
but you didn't realize that everything
had shrunk so much.
And like that was, as a person working on
firearms, I think anyone who says they don't make
mistakes is lying to you.
Literally impossible.
But the people who are really good know how
to fix their mistakes.
Right.
And that was the first mistake I
wasn't able to fix.
And so I went to Joe, cause I said, look it,
I had this issue, I'm going to have to, do you
have any spare barrels around, I'm going to
have a go at it again.
And he looked around, he says, yeah, actually I
got this quality barrel.
It's a spare.
You can have it take it.
It's yours.
Right.
In fact, it's not chambered in the right
caliber, but here's a chamber reamer.
I'll lend it to you.
Bring it back without any dings or nicks, not
a problem, no charge.
Right.
So I was able to get the customer up and running,
uh, if I don't know if he even listens to this
podcast, but I think his son might because his
son actually does work with us, but that would
be, uh, that'd be Randy Bach's firearm there.
Sorry about that, Randy.
But we got you going in the end,uh.
Got a new barrel out of the deal.
And he got a new barrel on it.
Nice quality barrel out of it, chambered tight.
Beautiful.
Right.
But that always stuck with me because Joe, at
that time I was doing more and more work
and he was still in the business of doing
work for the general public, albeit also
manufacturing and to a degree, I could have been
viewed as competition.
For sure.
But instead he says, not a problem,
Travis, come on in, let me help you out.
So that always stuck with me about Joe so I.
Joe's salt of the earth, man.
I love that guy.
He is.
Yeah.
Sorry to interrupt you there.
So, so where did that take you next?
Yeah.
So after that, um, left Blue Line there
and, um, I was on Canadian Gun Nutz.
I had taken a job as a, um, a concierge
apartment buildings downtown, and like, no
one wants that job, man.
it's the worst work job ever, just a bunch
of whiny, rich people just complaining
about everything.
Anyways, so I needed to get out of there.
Um, it was a good fill in job while, you know,
I had to pay my bills.
Um, and then, um, Canada Ammo posted,
um, on Canadian Gun Nutz that they were
looking for someone.
And then I was like, yeah, man.
I was like, I got to work in the gun
industry, this jobs working midnights sucks.
So, went, I submitted my resume to Canada Ammo.
Uh, got a job there is, um, I started there as
just a shipper, like just no, no responsibility
other than stuff in box out the door.
Sure.
Um, and, uh, it was a pretty intense out of
the box because Canada Ammo, um, At the time
and still to this day, they have, they're very
skew heavy on stuff.
So, you know, you have a guy who's ordering 10
different types of NC star stuff, and they're
all in tiny boxes.
And, you know, it looks like the matrix
scene where their walls are flying down.
Right.
Um, so yeah, that was awesome.
And then what was really cool about, uh, Can-Am
was obviously like at the time they were
bringing in, um, a lot of Norinco product.
Right.
So you walk into the back and there'd be
a two story thing tall of, uh M305 or,
you know, 762 x 39.
And, and, um, so yeah, that was, um,
I would call that my real first, um, gun
business job, where I was like, okay, I'm
amongst true gun people.
Uh, Chris at Canada Ammo is.
He's awesome.
And he's like a true gun guy.
Like he's, he's actually probably
more of a gun guy than anyone I've ever met.
That dude goes down rabbit holes
I didn't even know existed with guns.
Oh, I still call them up from time to time
to pick his brain and he's a sharp cookie.
Yeah, he's awesome.
Um, and, um, yeah, so, and at that time it was
lots of Norinco and I just remember, um, at,
at some point they said, Hey, you know, we mind
like taking care of the warehouse as well.
You know, just making sure it's
clean and stuff.
So then there, I was essentially in like the
Indiana Jones w you know.
Looking for the.
Guns and yeah, exactly.
Like it was awesome.
And then, you know, one day, like, you know, a
53 foot container just cram jam packed full
of guns would show up, but, you know, it'd be.
You know, all , M305's you'd have to hand
bomb the whole thing.
And then like, you know, for example, replace
that with anything else, like, uh, oranges
or cardboard boxes, worst job on earth.
Yeah.
A lot of work.
M305's, awesome job, like.
Oh just the smell.
Yeah, exactly.
And like, knowing that, like this just
came directly from the place that made
it to you and it's just cool stuff, man.
It's rad.
Um, so yeah.
Um, so I worked there for a good while.
Um, and then I kinda got up to, we did,
uh, I took over dealer sales for them as well.
So I was doing all their, uh, dealer
sales for awhile.
Um, and a gentleman there named Paul really took
me under his wing, um, and really explained to
me the finer points of, um, not just business
and like organization and all that kind of stuff,
but also how to deal with people on a good level.
Like again, reinforcing that thing that Joe,
you know, that I picked up off Joe, which is
like customer, customer, customer, like, these are
all your, your cohorts, you're all gun nuts.
You're all, you know, having a good time.
Right.
Um, so yeah, and I learned a ton there,
um, both mechanically with firearms, cause
I would be working on, you know, some warranty
stuff or whatever.
The shipping aspect of it, you know,
shipping routes and who to call and all
that kind of stuff.
Uh, organization, cause boy howdy.
Did that, you know, you had to have that place
organized or you would know where nothing was.
Yeah.
They got a lot of volume.
It's unbelievable.
Um, and then, yeah, so I just learned, that's
where I really got cut my teeth as far
as the gun industry.
Um, but uh, yeah, and at that point we were just
sitting there one day and um, Uh, Wanstalls
had post an ad and said, Hey, like, you
know, we need somebody to come in and fill in.
And just for shits and giggles, cause that
was, uh, a long time customer wants to halls.
Um, I just said, Hey, you know, at the time
I was like, Hey, it's Matt, blah, blah, blah.
You know, jokingly said, yeah, how
much does it pay?
And they said, uh, they responded back with,
come meet us tonight.
Really?
Yeah.
At the Billy miner pub, which is our, that is our
bunker of solitude there.
Um, so yeah, it was like, uh, okay.
So it wasn't really like, I wasn't even
looking for a job.
I was just curious.
Um, and so I met them there and I immediately
knew that I was like, yeah, these, these
are my guys, you know.
Craig's specifically, um, immediately treated
me like family and he had, he knew me
from buying there, but like, um, yeah.
Just like it was the right vibe for me
to, I was like, yeah, these guys are cool.
And so anyways, we had some beers, they made
me an offer and I was just like, oh my God.
I was like, I can't, I just got my first
apartment with my wife, uh, everything and I was
just like, I just started paying my bills properly.
Like I can't, I can't like bounce
off another job, you know what I mean?
Cause it's once you're once you somewhere
and you feel secure, then you kinda.
That's a trap though isn't.
It is a trap.
Right.
And then, you know, I was still young enough
at the time where I was like, you know, like,
let's go, let's do this.
Right.
So I went home that night and granted after
a couple of beer and um, I told my wife, I was
like, yeah, Wanstalls made me this like
rad offer and I think I'm going to take it.
And she's like, no, you're not taking it.
She's like, we just got this apartment.
She's like, we're sitting on lawn chairs.
Like, you know what I mean?
And then I was like.
I totally know what you mean.
Oh, you mean, um, and then I was
like, oh, okay.
Then she kind of talked me out of it that night.
And then I'm on the drive to work the next day.
I was just like, man, I was just like, it
wasn't just the offer.
It was, um, it was the people there.
Um, the vibe I got off of everyone I was talking
to, and honestly the products that Wanstalls
was selling at the time lined up with more of
my interests, um, you know, to be a hundred
percent honest about it.
Right.
So I just thought about, I was like, man, it'd
be really cool to get other stuff discounted
that I'm more into, you know what I mean?
Like, you know, I have a wider
selection, not as deep.
Like I do, like I didn't need 1500 M305's right.
Right.
There's so many greasy, M305's you can handle
before you go home and you're soaked
in cosmoline every.
um, so yeah, I just, on my way there, I just, uh,
decided to essentially that I was good to go.
Um, and then had a quick conversation and
yeah, I started the next week, um, at Wanstalls
in my little, little hovel of a corner.
So zero business training, a set
aside from the school of hard knocks.
Yeah.
So learning as you go.
Yep.
Uh, what were some of the biggest challenges
that you'd found at least to that point anyways,
because when you start at a Wanstalls, you're
basically strictly doing social media or when did
you start as a partner?
No, no, I definitely didn't start
as a partner.
It took me almost 10 years become
a partner there.
Right.
Um, yeah, no, I mean, the biggest thing is ego,
when you're that age.
I mean, even now, I mean, I'm only 33.
Like you always got to check your ego at the
door because, um, all that's ever going to do
is make it make it take longer to figure out the
answer to whatever you're trying to, you know,
achieve whatever you're trying to accomplish.
Um, so that was a big one.
Uh, and two just learning how to
deal with different people and different
personality types.
I'm a very, anyone who knows me, you
know, anyone who's met me I'm so blunt and
honest and probably to my own, probably not
what I shouldn't be.
I still am.
I'm very upfront and honest and I've got,
uh, I don't have a very good filter.
Um, but.
That could, that can play to your
benefit too, though.
It can, and it does.
Right.
Um, but I feel like only in certain positions
it does, um, maybe as a manager, as an owner, I
feel like, yeah, that's how you get information
across as curt and short and simple.
Um, but also a lot of people don't
respond well.
Yeah.
Like everyone responds to different types
of things, right?
Like somebody can take that as you being
upset with them or something like that.
So it's always just a that's something
I struggle with to this day is
understanding different personality types.
And I do, I read as many books as I
can, and to try and be as understanding
as I can, but the dickhead in me just.
Well, I don't even know if it's dickhead,
it's, at least when a person is blunt and
curt, you know, where you stand with them.
Exactly.
And there's no mincing of words.
Right.
If I say do A there's no, there's no, you're
confusing it with B.
Right.
And that's how I kind of look at it.
Um, so yeah.
And, um, also to the industry is an
interesting industry and, um, the industry is
a very, when I started in the industry, it was
just going away from like Ma and Pa shops.
And it was becoming like lots of social
media, lots of websites.
I mean, I don't know if you remember, for
online ordering back in the day, you could
just get it from sr.
Right.
You know, the old wholesale sports
guys and Alberta, that was your only.
That was it.
Way you could really online order anything.
Right?
Well, nobody was online ordering, everyone
was very reluctant to take that next step.
Yeah.
And there was a lot of unanswered questions
about it, like kind of ship product, legally,
all that kind of stuff.
Right.
And, you know, for a Ma and Pa shop,
which was essentially everyone at the time,
you don't want to take on that responsibility.
Right.
And, you know, everyone just did their niche
thing and you made their living retired somewhere
in the middle of nowhere and that was it.
Right.
Um, so essentially.
The introduction of online.
Yeah.
Like that was a huge learning curve because
now you've got all these shops and a
lot of young people and different ideas
all coming together.
Right.
And it was like a whole new world, right.
Essentially, like you've got kind of the new
way of doing business.
So like people who would historically
have different types of businesses are now
running gun shops and bringing that, you know,
the internet, I know this sounds ridiculous.
The internet with them and Facebook and all
that kind of stuff.
And you know, at that time it was like a
interesting new world of how to deal with
stuff so it was.
You guys really pushed the envelope.
I think you guys are, if not the leader, one
of the leaders for sure.
And moving things into the 21st century.
Well, yeah, I mean the biggest thing, um,
every single one of our followers and all of our
social media platforms is a hundred percent,
like those people clicked on our page.
We didn't pay, a lot of companies, uh, both
in the industry and in general, you just
buy followers right.
And then you log on.
It's never made sense to me.
And it has it because you look on,
it's like, oh wow.
This page has gotten like 20,000 followers and you
clicked, you know, one of their posts and it's got.
Zero.
Engagement.
It's gotten two likes, you know, like a, in
a poop emoji under it or something.
And you're like, I don't get it.
Right.
But then you realize, oh, they actually have
like 150 followers and they purchased it.
And the problem, and this is something I
learned from Paul.
The problem when you do that is it's hard
to crawl back from it.
Like once you realize it's a mistake,
it's really hard to undo that mistake.
So yeah, we have just shy of 10,000 legitimate
followers on Facebook.
Um, Instagram is an interesting one.
I think we're around 3000 on their, uh,
Instagram's algorithms for gun owners isn't.
It's the wrong platform for sure.
Yeah.
It's a, it's it can be tough from time to
time, but, uh, we get a lot of what I do like
about is we get a lot of real, a lot of feedback
from directly from our customers, not through
some weird platform, like I straight up get
messages from people asking me questions and
they get direct answers, as often as possible.
I mean, it's, it's tough to filter through
hundreds of messages a day, but, uh.
Is that what you're getting?
Yeah.
Like, you know, on, we get quite a few
like enough to where.
Um, my wife answers a lot of stuff, you
know, she's she wants to get paid, but she's
never getting paid.
Is that your wife in the commercials?
Yeah.
That's my wife, she, God bless her.
She comes out and yeah.
I don't know how she puts up with me, but
yeah, that's her in the commercials and
like that gift card one we did and stuff.
Yeah.
That's her doing it.
Those commercials are awesome.
Thanks man.
Yeah, those are lots of fun.
And like that's a prime example is, you know,
I, when we went into the tV aspect of things.
I was like, I can't stand like the typical gun
owner commercial or gun shop commercial, where
it's like a dude standing behind his counter.
And it's like, you know, ra-ta-ta I'm, you
know, and then like a blast Calgary, Alberta,
or whatever part of the world he lives and
across the street is like, there's only so
much of that you can, you know, we all have
guns in our store, right.
Like we all go to the same distributors
for everything.
So like, what's the point of telling
people you sell, you know, guns, right.
And why don't you have some fun with it and
make people realize that like, yeah, it is fun.
Are you scripting those yourself?
Yeah, I do.
Uh, I do a lot of the creative and then, uh,
my friend Brent Nelson at Soapbox Studios helps
me out with the filming.
Yeah.
Um, and he's awesome.
Cause like I have a hard time when it comes
to like the M I know what the image in my
head of when I want something to look like,
but I can't for the life of me, explain it.
And he just gets me, he like instantly knows what
I'm trying to explain.
And I've tried to do it with other people and
it just doesn't work.
It's just, you know.
So if people want to see them, I saw
those commercials on Facebook I think it was.
Yeah.
Is that, do you have them compiled somewhere?
Yeah.
If.
If people want to go through them?
Yeah, we have them on our YouTube page.
We had a YouTube page years ago.
I tried to start a YouTube account for the
store and it just turned into like this super
cringy, like, uh, you know, I realized at that
time, how much goes into editing and you know,
all that kind of stuff.
And I thought like, oh, you just throw a camera
up and, you know, had some whizzbang do it.
And there you go.
But it's a lot of work even in here in
the podcast studio.
I'm just like, all these buttons and stuff, no
idea how this works.
Um, it was a learning curve for sure.
So like our, I kind of deleted everything off
our old YouTube page.
Um, and then we just essentially put all
of our commercials on our YouTube page.
Okay.
Um, Facebook, uh, we throw them on
Instagram as well.
And obviously, yeah, they're on WildTV.
Yeah.
That's our main, main place where those go.
Um, but yeah.
Are you seeing, how are you measuring the
engagement off of those?
Um, honestly it, so this is a classic thing when
it comes to advertising and old-school guys,
um, always say like, oh, you invest a
thousand dollars.
You need to get $3,000 out of it.
And that means here, and it's like, you
can't, in today's world, it's impossible to
quantify that, right?
Like, cause like what are they going to come
in with a w a prize over cracker jack box?
And then, you know that like, come on, like, you
know, you can't do that.
What you do is essentially, um, you'd
listen to people when you're talking to them
and they say, man, I saw your commercials
that really awesome, or whatever, like love
what you guys are doing.
And that's how you gauge your feedback off of it.
Right.
And our commercials, they do great for us.
And, you know, honestly, um, It's an, I like
being creative and it's a creative outlet for me.
And, uh, I'm just curious to when WildTV is just
going to say, Hey man, we can't air this one.
That's too many fart jokes or something
like that so.
Think of your commercials is that people
want to share them.
Yeah.
They want to show them to other people
because they're genuinely hilarious.
Yeah.
The favorite one I did is actually not even a
commercial is the, uh, liberal gun owner one.
I don't know if you saw that.
No, I don't think I've seen that one.
All right.
Well, I won't spoil it for you, but there's two
flame throwers in it and, uh, we didn't even put,
we just did that for a fun one for social media.
Um, and like, that was just an example, like
we gotta do this video, man cause it's, it's
going to be hilarious.
So yeah, that, one's a, that one's one of
my favorites for sure.
You know, uh, Colion Noir.
Yep.
Okay.
So he's got the seven types of people that
you see at a gun range.
Yeah.
Hilarious does a wicked job with that.
Yeah.
You guys going to do something like that?
Yeah.
We could for sure.
Seven types of people you see coming into
your gun store.
Yeah.
That'd be, that'd be a fun one actually.
Yeah, that'd be, that'd be cool.
Um, maybe not in voting season, but maybe cause
it's all, it's all anti-Trudeau stuff right
now, but maybe we'll wait until after and
we can have a different kind of crowd of
people coming back in.
Give it a few weeks.
Yeah, exactly.
Fingers crossed.
Have you found that the crowd of people
that you have coming in has substantially
changed since, well, I don't know.
Um, but a year and a half ago?
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
It's uh, it's been crazy as far as that
goes, like the S the.
Yeah.
I've had like everything, like, so when the
pandemic, whatever the COVID first started
there, I can't believe the types of people
I had coming in.
And I mean that as in like people I've
never expected to see in a gun store, I had
a mommy walking group come in with their
babies and strollers.
And they were like, I have my PAL, I've never
used it before, but you know, blah, blah, blah.
Here we go.
And I'm like, what is happening right now
is there's this like something happening
I'm not aware of, but yeah, it's been crazy.
Like, um, the types of people we've been
having coming in and the like from
different backgrounds and everything.
It's awesome.
You know, seeing people want to get
educated about firearms and actually taking
an active interest in them and right.
And then, you know, once you become a firearms
owner, because it's so tied to politics, right.
You really start to paying attention to
what's going on out there because it's just,
it's part of your life.
It affects you directly, right?
Like, um, policies and stuff like that.
So it's, it's not just about owning guns.
I feel like having your gun license, uh, really
opens up your, your thought processes to, you
know, other stuff that's going on in the world.
You know, when COVID hit my mother-in-law,
who is the last person who should ever have a
firearm says, Trav, I'm really thinking I should
get myself a firearm.
Can you tell me what I got to do here?
And I saw, that was probably the aha moment
for me, when I really saw the shift in people
because that's one person who's always
had a very negative view of firearms,
to all of a sudden thinking, I'm scared
and things are changing.
And maybe I should be a little more
proactive about my personal protection
and self defense.
And that's the faux pa to talk about in Canada.
In the states, it's something that
people talk about.
There are sections in the criminal code that do
permit for it and all the rest, but it's something
that in the firearms community, nobody
wants to talk about.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it's, it's faux pa and I think
it's more so, depending on who's in power.
Um, but it's funny to see, and I don't mean
this in a negative way, but, um, you know, as
soon as you realize that, um, something serious
can happen and, you know, you help might not
be a phone call away.
You know, every, you know, hardcore anti-gun
this and anti-gun that they're, they're lining
up to, to buy guns and like that's okay.
And I don't mind that it's great.
The more that are out there, the harder
they are to take away.
Um, but you know, it's interesting that
that's what it takes for people to open up
their, um, mindset.
You know what I mean, to do that.
Whereas for me, you know, got, a gun to
me is not this glowing sphere of hot energy
or anything like that.
It's just, it's a tool, you know, you hunt
with it, you shoot it, it is what it is.
If it's unloaded it, ain't going to do
anything, you know, so it's interesting the
than the past year and a half, the types of people
we've been seeing and.
Um, what's really cool is them coming into
the store and then realizing that it's
like, it's not like the movies were not where
some crotchety old guns or where, you know, we
don't want to help people and stuff like that.
We, we, we do take an interest in, you know,
I call it our customer success in, you know,
firearm ownership so.
Cool.
Yeah, man.
Well, with the, um, operating a firearms
business is so heavily regulated.
It's a weird thing because it's so tightly
controlled in some ways and so unbelievably
gray and other ways.
Yeah.
I think you, I think, you know, a lot about that.
Um, but yeah.
I do know a lot about that.
It's insane, man.
Like, um, and that's what's really frustrating
is that a lot of people like, like I'll just
throw it out there.
Like the, the ban that happened a year ago
with the OIC, right?
Like everyone thought like, oh my God, like,
yay, rah, rah, that was on the other, on
the anti-gun side.
And then like you just like pick the top
scab off that right.
And it's just utter and I'm sorry for
my french, dog shit.
Like you can tell that no thought or
effort went into it.
And it's the same thing.
Like it is a tightly controlled industry,
but there's not a lot of guidance from anyone as
to, like there's no 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 step as to,
you know, what kind of security you need, what
kind of, um, you know, what kind of records
you need to keep and all this kind of stuff.
It's like, here's the goal, figure out
how to get there.
And that's, can be really frustrating um,
in general, but can also be very detrimental to
new businesses opening up and people who, you know,
and the other thing too, province to province.
Um, you know, as you know, depending on who's
doing inspections and all this kind of stuff, like
the rules are different.
Like you can have one year everything's great.
The next year, you're the worst gun store ever.
And you need to completely pull, tear
everything apart and rebuild, you know,
whatever aspect they're not happy with.
So it can be really discouraging and,
uh, it really can ruin, you know, put
it on the far end.
I think it would ruin a lot of people's lives.
Does, so it really can.
And I agree with that in the, when it comes
down to the ambiguity in the grayness of
it, you can just, as a general firearms owner,
people know you can call up, you can talk
to one representative on one day and get one
answer and you can get a completely different
answer on the next day.
And they.
Or just bloody checking a PAL.
Right.
Validity.
You know, you get three different
answers with three different phone calls.
Do I need their phone number?
Do I need their address?
Do I need their blood type?
Do I need this?
Do I need the last five digits after the decimal?
All this kind of stuff.
And you know, you can call one person with
just a name and date of birth and a PAL and
they'll say yes or no.
Then the other person will say, no, you
need this set of rules and then no,
you need, you know, going down the line.
And it's, it's crazy.
So from an individual owner standpoint,
that's frustrating.
Oh yeah.
From a firearms business owners standpoint,
this is your livelihood and one person's
opinion on policy, not necessarily legislation
or regulation, one person's opinion can
make or break what you're doing until you find
another opinion that's contrary or that, that.
Yeah, my mortgage doesn't get paid.
You know what I mean?
It's not, for me.
It's not like, oh, I don't get to go shoot
my 22 this weekend.
For me, it puts food on my table.
It's how I pay my mortgage.
It's everything.
Does that sit in the back of your head?
Oh, constantly.
How can it not?
Right.
Totally.
And especially when it comes to things like
that should be so simple and cut and dry as pol,
as firearm policy, um, that it's interpreted
20 different ways by 20 different people.
And no one really knows the answer.
It's like, as I just said that it sounds insane,
but if you're a Canadian gun owner, you know.
Well, it
is insane.
Yeah.
And not only that it can affect your livelihood,
it can affect your personal freedom as well.
For sure.
100%, there was, um, the gentleman
Sureshot in Poco.
I dunno if you remember that shop there.
Yeah, actually I've probably got a file here
that, uh, that he handed over to me because.
Yeah, he's one of the nicest dudes.
So nice.
And he grew up, uh, my wife grew up, uh, in the
same complex as he was.
And, uh, when he opened Sureshot the that's, what
it was called, right?
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I remember like walking into that place, I
was like, this is the dopest gun store I've
ever walked into.
I was like, he had everything bad-ass
that every gun store should have had, he
had bulk ammo, he had tons of handguns.
It was so, and him and his wife were the
nicest people right.
And, and, you know, his story is a prime example.
It is so sad.
Yeah.
It it's ridiculous.
And the worst part about it is he was a
sacrificial lamb at a point where, uh, gangs
and, um, you know, shootings were happening
and he was just, they needed somebody to, um,
I don't know, like make a headline and he knew.
Yeah, it was just super sad and he never
did anything wrong.
And that's an example of worst case
scenario obviously.
Somewhere floating around in a secure filing
cabinet, I've got I've was asked to opine on
his case at one point.
And so I got to look at the ins and outs
of what happened to him, into his wife.
And it was extremely troubling to look
at the process that he was put through.
Now, he was an immigrant, I believe
he did, he, he had full Canadian citizenship.
Oh, I don't know.
I don't know the extent of that part.
Right.
So I'm looking through the video clips that
were provided over of the take-down and the raid.
Um, essentially, uh, he was being accused of, um,
a whole bunch of things.
Like a whole bunch of things.
None of which had any, any, uh, value
that I could see.
Or like basis in reality.
Or any basis in reality, uh, this was
during a time when a magazine importation was
permitted, provided, it was, uh, pinned and, uh.
Yeah.
And I dunno, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
It wasn't that just like a paper, like, it was
like a flip of the switch paperwork kind of thing
that happened to him.
Like it was.
He had it as a condition on his business license.
Yeah, that's what.
That he was able to take these things in.
And so what happened from my recollection
here, uh, was that, I think it was a relative
of his, had shipped some magazines up from the
states up to a, um, like a ups store or something
like this, but they were all properly pinned.
They're all a legal, everything as it ought to
be, there may have been something overlooked on
the export side from US.
I'm not sure I'm not, I don't know the
US ,laws in an out, but not none of that
was being alleged.
All I recall is looking back on it saying like,
if they wanted to try and make something, maybe
they could try and do something there, but it
went to the, I think it was a ups postal store
or wherever it was.
I came to the customs first, customs looks
at it, police say, send it on through.
And we'll send one of our guys to act as a
post office person.
And so when he comes through, then we can
verify, and we can do a bit of a, uh, a takedown.
Anyways, they do that and they don't take
them down at the store.
They give him the stuff he's got this package,
which arguably he's got no idea what's in it.
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, I don't know.
Um, and they take them down to the front of his
store saying that he's now importing magazines.
Well, that was the valid business condition that
he had on his license.
They've didn't lock him up, I believe
they detained his wife for a bit.
They went to his house.
Yeah, they raided his house and they're
like, he's got a sawed off shotgun.
And then they had it on the front
page of the paper.
And it was just like a regular shotgun.
And armor piercing ammunition, right?
All of these things, none of which is illegal.
None of the points that he did and
the crown council that was involved.
I happened to know that crown council
and I've had numerous conversations with them.
Uh, offered him some deals and said,
tell you what, we'll make it all go away.
You just agree to this, we can make
it all go away.
You agree to that, we'll make it all go away.
And the deals got diminishing more and more
until finally they came out and they said they
essentially held his wife hostage, his wife who's
having medical problems and they ruined him.
They ruined this one firearms business owner
due to his lack of understanding of the
Canadian legal process and bully tactics.
Guilty through due process.
Right.
It's something that floats around in
our industry quite a, quite a bit.
Right.
You're not guilty of anything you're guilty
through the process is what makes you guilty.
It makes you broke, it makes you unable
to do anything else.
Right.
So, yeah, that's, it's an unfortunate part of
what we do, you know.
So what do you do to protect
yourself from that?
Oh, man.
I mean, you've always got to stay on top
of, you know, any changes in legislature.
I've always had a thing, like always
go above and beyond.
If they, if the goalpost is a hundred yards
go 300 yards, like, you know what I mean?
Like always go above and beyond, that way there's
no question like that.
It's all about intent, right?
That's what everything boils down to in the,
in the legal world.
Um, and if you show intent that you were
doing the right thing and you wanted to do
the right thing, it covers you to an extent.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's ultimately
up to crown and whoever else to do what they want
to do, but it's always about covering your ass
and just doing as much as you possibly can.
Um.
Does that alienate the client base because
you're going to have client base who're like,
this is a bare minimum that you have to meet and
why are you going above?
Yeah.
I mean, we, we have certain things we will
abide by and like, or not abide by, but like
certain measures we do take as a business that's
not forced upon us.
Um, but there's certain things we just like
that we've, that have been requested of
us on that we just flat out won't do.
And like a big ones, obviously
non-restricted's, um, stuff like that.
It's, it's not required.
It's none of our business, you
know, move on.
It's not like I know some companies do record
non-restricted stuff.
Um, but yeah, I mean, It's all about the ebb
and flow of what works for your company and
what your, you know, and what's your, essentially
what you're willing to die on the cross, on what
it boils down to, right?
Like something, something, you know, is
either right or wrong and you go down that
route and our customers are always covered.
So it's never a case where we're going
to take advantage of our customers.
Sure to fashion whatsoever.
Totally.
We do what we can on our end and Jesus take the
wheel on the rest of it.
Yeah.
Well, you know, dying on the cross bout some
of these things are sometimes you look at it
and you might have your own personal political
feelings on something, but then you have to
take into account the repercussions of what
those feelings will have for you, your
wife, do you have kids?
No, no kids.
I got.
And a, and your coworkers and those who work
with you and you have to start trying to
juggle all of that.
I mean, it's not for the faint of heart.
It's definitely not.
To get into business.
There's a reason why my solitude spot is a bar.
It's not for the faint of heart to get into
a firearms business.
Oh, definitely not.
, but if you follow your heart, like what you're
talking about, what would you, what advice would
you give to somebody who says, look, I really
want to get into this.
Like for me personally, I tell my kids, if
you want to get into a firearms business,
that's up to you.
You're on your own though.
I mean, it's not something that I'm
going to support because there are easier ways to
generate a living, but it might not necessarily
necessarily align with what your passions are.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I learned pretty quick on, um, that, um,
you know, my mother died when I was very young,
so, or when I was young.
So I knew that I did not want to live a life.
Like it's a mundane box, filing paperwork.
I knew that that's a risk I was willing to take.
Um, but as far as like somebody wanting to get
into it, um, w always find somebody who's
smarter than you, and just learn as much as
you can from them and be humble about what you
thought the answer was, versus what reality is.
Um, and be able to accept that.
And like a prime example is like, it's hard,
like getting approvals and licensing and, you
know, the inspections and everything to
open up a business.
And, you know, you have to jump through the
hoops and it's expensive.
Um, and it is what it is.
But at the end of the day, if firearms is
your passion, then I mean, who cares?
I mean, it's, it is what it is.
You're either doing it or you're not, and.
Right.
The strong will get through it.
And the guys who weren't meant to do it,
you know, there'll be doing something else.
They'll find an excuse.
It was the recession, or.
Yeah exactly.
It was COVID.
Exactly right.
There's always an excuse not to do what you
really want in life.
And I, I'm very lucky and don't get me wrong.
Like you know, I will say I worked my way
through it, but, or worked my way to where
I'm at, but, um, you know, it is possible to
do, um, you just got to grind it out and if you
really love what you're doing, it's, it never
really feels like work.
You know what I mean?
Even on like the worst days I ever, like,
we always say it in the shop, like, you
know, still better than filing paperwork.
Like even if you're having the worst day,
it's like, yeah, man, I'm still, but it's
still better than, you know, a mundane job where
you're not passionate about what you're doing.
And, you know.
You know, from a, uh, from the scariness side
of operating a firearms business where the, the
election happening next week, it could, um,
well this one comes out the election happening
probably that day.
Um, could change everything for you.
Yeah, for sure it can.
How would you.
I I've always looked at as, you know, if
they outlawed firearms, maybe you only, the
businesses have firearms.
There's still a business model in place.
There's always something that you can jump
to if they say, Hey, uh, you can only use
the indoor ranges.
Okay.
Set up an indoor range.
Hey, these guns are illegal.
Great, get it on the business license, work
within the framework and then have the, there's
always a business model regardless of how things
work, but it does get harder and harder.
How would you pivot essentially?
Oh yeah.
That's a, we actually.
Cause I know you've thought about this.
Oh yeah.
I mean you have to, right.
I mean, it is what it is like honestly, like
one day someone could just flip a switch and
it's not just like, oh, you know, you can't
even pivot you're toast.
Um, so you know, we'll talk about it
in two breaths there.
I mean the first one they flipped the switch,
guns, guns are gone like overnight, like hand
'em in, jackbooted thugs knocking on your door,
all that fun stuff.
Right.
The crew guys I have, um, between my Craig,
my partners, Craig and Marco, um, and the guys
who work for me, like they're my family and
whatever I'm doing, they're coming with me.
Whether it's another business
venture or whatever.
Um, I'm making sure that my guys are
coming with me.
Cause they're, they're what makes the shop.
I mean, you know, we can do as much as we can
ordering and stuff like that at the end of the
day, like I can't run the shop on myself, Craig
can't run the shop, Marco can't run the shop, you
got to have a good solid group of guys with you.
Um, in regards to pivoting, I mean, you
know, we, you know, you could pivot to,
um, outdoor stuff, you know, like that's kind
of our main thing.
That would be your thing, right?
Like I'm a gear guy, I'm a gear nut, I love gear.
Back, like I got this ridiculous
backpack collection.
I just, I don't know what it is, man.
I just buy backpack after backpack and
you know, like just different stuff right?
Like I got the, this new Mystery Ranch, one that
came in with a that's like the wax canvas.
Yeah.
I just thought that was just like, that's
it, man, that's that's backpack forever.
Right.
Before that was an Arc'Teryx and all those
kinds of stuff and knives and out, you know,
that's other aspects of being gun owners, right?
Like you're always, you're usually outdoors
and we're doing something in regards
to that and like making outdoors, comfortable.
You know, like chairs and stuff like
that and cookware.
So we'd probably do something like that,
but honestly, like it would have to be like
worst case scenario.
Like I, like guns are my thing, guns, I live,
breathe and die guns.
I got a sense that you're kind of like
me and so far is I'm extremely obstinante.
I can be extremely, um, strong-willed and pig
headed about things.
And as I look at the gun path, um, there's always
a way to make it work.
Oh yeah.
But, maybe taking a bit of a step back
and saying, is there a better way that we can
service a customers and service a client base?
And as opposed to just trying to fight
the current head on, can we ride this
current in order to?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's so many, this is the thing,
and this has been in the past like five years,
there is some amazing Canadian companies.
This is the thing, what I was from the start of
the business, I never understood why there
weren't more Canadian companies building guns,
like from scratch, right.
Because you don't, if it's non restricted,
then the FRT becomes an opinion.
Right.
And stuff like that.
And then, so you got these new companies,
like, you know, um, Kodiak Defense.
Yep.
You've got.
Oh they're great.
Yeah.
Spectre Ballistics.
Uh, you've got Maple Ridge Armory.
Ultimatum.
Yeah, Ultimatum.
IBI.
Yeah, IBI, you know, PGW, you got KDX, you got all
these amazing companies.
Right.
And then like, um, the fastest response, you
know, to the change in, you know, the OIC ban,
you know, um, Maple Ridge Armory came out with
the, uh, the, sorry, the Renegade, which
is the straightened.
Right.
I'm like, that's what this industry needs, it
needs people like that.
So that companies like us have something
to pivot to, some different product right.
And it's still a fantastic product.
It's very, well-made, it has its purpose.
Um, it may look like an AR, but it's not, but
it's super cool to go shoot a deer with it.
Uh, you know.
You know, you're highlighting something,
that's just kind of clicking in the back
of my head because I couldn't agree more,
you're 100%, right.
That is what our market needs.
And we have had people like that who pivot
quite quickly and they will find, I don't
want to say loopholes because that's how it's
some people will, will define, Hey, you're
just working a loophole.
No, it says it's legal.
So I'm making it based on the framework
that you've provided.
For sure.
Joe Dlask.
Yeah.
And he would do that over and over again.
I mean, he's done it with the 22 megs for the.
Yeah, the tough 22.
Right.
And he would did it with like pump action
AR is back in the day and he did.
I remember those.
Remember those?
Those things were rad.
Yeah.
And he, over and over again, he's doing these
pivoting, but the one thing in that whole
piece of the puzzle, which I find, um, very
difficult is the amount of love that a company
will feel when they do that pivot, everyone
says, Hey, we love and let's get behind them.
And how quickly everybody runs away the second
that things look a little bit scary.
I have seen Joe drag through the mud on online
forums for only doing things that are perfectly
legal and that the firearms community wants.
So the level of sticktuitiveness
and co-operation.
That's a canadian gun owner thing then.
That's, if there's one thing that just drives me
nuts about Canadian gun owners, it's that exactly
what you just described it we're were own
worst enemy sometimes.
Why?
I have no idea.
You got a guy like any company who's willing
to, like, for example, what Joe is doing.
He's, um, pushing the envelope of taking people
to task, essentially.
The people that say, you know, they say,
oh, this is what, you know, the pump action
AR oh, no, that's not okay because it's, it's
like, no, it is okay.
And that's how not just, you know, that,
but other innovations are made that way.
Right.
But yeah.
I mean, gun owners, holy moly, man.
Like they.
Like Kodiak.
Yeah.
Like it's unbelievable.
Like why, how vicious we can be to each other.
And it's like a company, like, yeah, example
like the Kodiak WK fiasco or whatever
happened there right?
Yeah.
Like, are you guys kidding me?
Like, did they brought to market a Canadian, 100%
Canadian made semiauto, non-restricted firearm,
during like one of the worst firearms ban
since like the assault ban in 72 or whatever
70, whatever it was.
And it's like, what is wrong with you people?
Like the company like, reverse five
years ago and you did there wasn't a world
where there'd be a sub $1,500 Canadian made
223 that takes AR mags that's non-restricted.
Right.
Doesn't, doesn't exist.
Right.
You know, but there it is during one
of the worst times.
And, you know, people, people chose their sides
of who they thought was right and wrong and.
Right.
You know.
That's uh, so.
We sell Kodiak by the way.
Yeah.
And I love Kodiak.
Great guys.
Awesome guys.
Yeah.
Uh.
They, they were one of the first people I met,
um, in the industry that like I dealt with.
Yeah.
Um, way back the, the two brothers and.
Yeah.
Just like the nicest guys on earth.
Funny story about them.
Yeah.
So, you know, their shops right around
the corner from us.
Oh, I did not know that.
No.
Okay.
So, I get there, there was a guy in this
building complex that we're in right now and
he would sleep upstairs in his shop and he
says, oh no, it's a caretaker suite right.
Even though I think actually this unit
that we have here is a one license when
that to be caretaker.
Anyways, I digress.
I get this like blurry cell phone pictures
from him and he sending me pictures cause I
guess the two brothers had rented a shop here
and they're unloading a big old van full of
Russian military looking crates and stuff.
And he sending me all these services, all
these nervous pictures, and I said, I'm going
to contact the police.
I'm going to contact this and I'm like,
just hold on.
This, isn't a Steven Seagal movie going down.
Right, exactly.
Just hold on a little bit right.
Anyways, I think he actually did end up
contacting somebody in all of this and.
I, uh, while he's trying to contact, I
contacted one of the firearms officers.
I said, is there any business here?
And he's like, nope, nope, there isn't.
And I'm like, are you sure?
And he comes back a little bit later.
He's like, okay, hold on, I just double
checked, yes, new business in there.
Anyway, so it didn't help these two brothers that
they're taller than me.
I'm 6'6".
Yeah.
And these guys.
Two monsters, probably in trench coats.
Yeah, they were.
They were.
Yeah.
Leather jackets.
Yeah.
Man they look like just Russian mafia,
but they are the salt of the earth.
Oh go, like, yeah.
Probably some of my favorite people.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Just awesome guys.
Yeah.
So again, why, why do we eat our own from a
gun owner standpoint, but even more from the
business standpoint, cause the gun owners
don't see all the drama that goes on.
But by businesses, once you reach a certain level
in the firearms business industry, I think there's
a general understanding and people realize
we're in this together.
Yeah, for sure.
I think that, uh, it's a lot of like my nut, like
this is my, my thing.
And a lot of people in the industry, I guess,
you know, this is just my take on it, but like
feel owed, like to some extent or another, in
a business transaction or, you know, however
it goes and um, yeah.
I just think that you get stuck in that rut, right?
Like you just see the carrot in front
of the nose and you just kinda keep going
after it when there's a much wider picture
to be taken from it.
You know, I've always, uh, I've looked at it
and I've got a couple different theories on it.
One, from the business standpoint, there is
a very low barrier of entry to start a firearms
business if you've got the cahones to do it.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Once you get the checks and check marks on from
the firearms program and.
So consequently that will bring in people who might
not have as much business acumen as somebody gets
into a higher barrier to, of entry position.
Like if you're a lawyer, I'm sure everyone's
going to have drama.
They're all gonna have their things, but a
law firms, different practices by the time
they're operating, they probably have a general
understanding of how everyone works together.
That low barrier of entry and lack of sort
of business acumen can create the, this
is my nut, this is my thing, and nobody
else could have it.
I can see that.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And then the other one that I see pretty big is,
with all the rules that are put on to firearms
owners, I think there's a level of wanting to have
some sort of ownership or things within your
own locus of control that firearms owners will
start creating their own rules on top of the rules
that are already there.
This is where you see, like, they talk
about range Nazis, or they talk about.
Fuds.
Right or fuds and everyone says, well,
you can't have this.
You can only do this or whatever it might
be because I, and I could be off base.
Maybe the listeners.
No like I could see that too.
Like, uh, you know, like, oh, if AR's didn't
exist, no one would even care about my little 22
pump act, or whatever.
Right.
You know what I mean?
We're, we're like beaten dogs, right.
Always cowering, always sort of hiding in the
corner saying, well I can't advertise
like this because people will get mad.
Or I can't talk openly about the fact
that I own firearms.
And this is where one of the places where
The Silvercore Podcast is, I'm able to bring
on people who have a passion for what they
do and share that passion with others.
Because firearms, like you mentioned earlier,
anybody listening to this already
knows, that they're inanimate objects.
They're only as evil as a person who has it.
Yes, a firearm in the hands of a person with
ill intent is scary.
A firearm, but a person of ill intent
is a scary, period.
Yeah.
I've been doing this for over a decade and
the only time I've been heard as stubbing my
toe on a case ammo.
Yeah.
Done that.
So I think with the OIC that came out, like
I'm sure given, uh, Wanstalls demographic
and business model, that must have hurt.
Oh yeah.
I mean, there's, there's nobody who thinks, like
we love tactical stuff.
Like that's, that's kinda my thing.
Like I love modern kind of style
military firearms.
That's what I enjoy the most.
Um, so yeah, like it was a big kick to the,
the, the, the bits, but, um, again, like I
don't know, it's hard.
Like the OIC wasn't a surprise, right?
Cause the OIC was talked about months beforehand
and it was like, oh, he's going to do it on when
you know, what's her name from New Zealand comes
and then he was going to be like this, that,
and the other thing.
So like, it's kinda like, you know, you, you kind
of knew it was coming, but, um, I mean, I didn't
think it would be to the extent of, I mean,
what it was like, it was like, it was crazy.
And it was just like, again, that was what I
had mentioned like you scratch the top off.
It, there's a coffee company in there and,
uh, a website and you know, whatever else
that they put in there.
Um, but yeah, we were able, well first off
we were in the pan, the middle of the pandemic.
So stock was hard to get in anyways.
Um, and two, like we saw it coming, we made
our adjustments as far as inventory and stuff.
And then, yeah, we were, we were one of
the lucky ones that didn't, um, really get
dinged too hard by it.
We didn't have a lot of inventory left.
Um, um, so that was good for us.
Um, but yeah.
That was lucky.
Yeah, it was, it was lucky.
There was some businesses that got
hit like super hard.
Yes.
And like we're talking in the hundreds of thousands
of dollars of inventories of not millions.
Just sitting there now.
Yeah, now it's all rusting and,
uh, you can't do anything with it.
And like, that was the classic that the,
oh, you can send them back to the states.
No you can't.
You know, typical don't think anything
through liberal government, you know?
Oh, you just send them back down where
they came from.
You can't do that.
You can't do that, man.
But thanks for telling us we can.
Um, so yeah, like we were, we were really
lucky in that regard.
So the whole thing is, is to keep, uh, an ear
down to, uh, what's going on in the industry.
And also like never assume a liberal
government is not going to do the craziest shit
you can imagine, like, you know what I mean?
Like going into it.
Yeah.
The best predictor of future performance
is past performance.
Exactly.
And every single time, there's the
same common trend.
I personally don't think they care one way or the
other about firearms, has got zero to do with
the issue of firearms.
It's to create opposition.
Yeah, sure.
It's now conservatives like guns, we
don't like guns.
Rah, rah, rah.
Conservatives are baby killers.
Yeah, exactly.
Stand, you know, jump on your soap box and
do your thing, you know, hopefully this go
around, he's got enough going for him but.
So that was the OIC.
Yeah.
But then COVID hit and I seen a quote in the
paper, I think a 200% was the thing that
sticks out in that quote.
Yeah.
Holy crow.
Yeah, the, the COVID hit, uh, the COVID
for us was, the COVID, I sound, whatever.
Um, yeah, it was insane for us, like it
was, it was bananas.
So, um, the, when it first started, it was
like our shelf was cleaned out in, like
every single gun I had, like guns that
even sucked that, like, they have nothing
to do with anything other than a fun gun.
Like everything was, was selling, all my ammo.
I ran out of shotgun ammo, like immediately,
uh, anything, 12 gauge was gone.
Um, yeah, it was crazy.
Crazy.
Are you seeing a second wave of that
kind of happen?
Yeah.
With the election coming up.
With the election coming up for sure.
And then everyone's so, you know, they don't
know what's coming, you know, we're going
into fall here and, you know, Delta variants,
this Zulu variants that, whatever right.
Right.
Who knows.
But, um, it's definitely interesting.
I've never worked in the industry.
I've worked, oh, sorry.
I've worked in the industry for
a very long time.
I've never seen uh, so many people who
historically aren't gun owners coming in saying,
I need self-defense and I'm just like, we're
not allowed to say that.
Like it's crazy.
And people are like, I don't even, I don't care.
Like, that's why I'm buying it and I went and
got my gun license and, you know, I don't care.
I just want a shotgun.
And I'm like, okay, well, here you go.
Like, you know, like, cool, I, I'm
down with that.
Like, it's a reality of the fact that
he's, you know, it's a reality of life.
Like it is what it is.
People have to be able to defend themselves.
Yeah.
There is a legal framework in place
that allows for it.
And like, when COVID kicked off there
and everything was.
Um, selling out everywhere and like,
you didn't know how crazy people were
going to get right.
I mean, luckily, you know, everyone kept calm,
cool and collective.
Um, but yeah, like that's the first time ever.
I've seen that, like influx and the
influx of like people who historically
have no interest in firearms, just buying
whatever went, bang.
Which I'm okay with.
Yeah, exactly.
Just introduce a brand new group of people.
And a lot
of them, it's interesting.
A lot of them have come back and it's become
a part of their life.
It's actually a hobby and what it was originally
just a worry purchase.
And a lot of people are like, oh, it's, you
know, it's not that bad.
You know, it's kind of cool.
Yeah.
And now they've got a garden and a bunch
of toilet paper.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, no doubt.
You know, when those little, you know,
little, uh, war gardens and everything
to get the little.
And they know how to make bread.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So tell me about the social media side.
You took that social media from nothing grown
into something pretty, pretty spectacular.
And I think, cause you mentioned earlier,
you said, you know, follow your dream.
And the social media part is a very big
part of what we do.
Yeah.
What, what have you learned on that?
And would you have any advice to anybody
else who wants to kind of grow that their,
their social media?
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, um, Wanstalls social media is my
baby, a hundred percent like that, I started
it from nothing.
I had a very clear plan of where I wanted it
to go and I feel like it's, uh, it's pretty, I
like where it's at now.
Um, the biggest advice I would give people, um,
and it's probably not popular advice, would be
if you get a bad review online, or if someone has
something negative to say about your company, one,
do the research as to how the, what happened with
the transaction, where the breakdown with the
customer was, because there's always two sides
to every story right.
And like, we've, I mean, it's retail and it's
people's money and they get really hotheaded and
all that kind of stuff.
But if you were in fact in the right, you tell,
you go on to the bad Google review, you go
into the bad Facebook review and be like,
Hey man, you're being unreasonable and this
is how it went down and you just lay it down.
I've seen those on your.
Yeah man.
And you know, when we first started that,
uh, you know, it wasn't popular with the
ownership at the time of Wanstalls, but I said,
Hey man, like, we didn't do anything wrong here.
And it's important people know that.
And if you just put the information out there,
you know, people take what they will from it.
But at least now they have two
sides of the story.
And the other big part of that too, where,
where it's easy to, you know, sling mud back.
Um, if you did screw up own it and just
say, Hey man, I'm.
A thousand percent.
Yeah, man.
You just say, listen, I'm sorry that
this is how this transaction went down.
I apologize, I've made, you know, I've talked
to the staff, make sure it doesn't happen again.
Cause there comes to a point in a conversation,
like when there's a whole conversation that happens
before a bad review or anything like that.
And, and I understand it as a customer, as a
consumer product, you just, the answer is,
you know, piss off.
I don't want to deal with you guys anymore.
Here's your bad review and you move on, right?
Whether you're right or you're wrong.
I understand that point where you just
stopped communicating with it, with the shop.
But it's important that the business and
whoever's, you know, in whatever business
you're doing, if you do screw up own it, learn
from it and make sure the public knows that
you did screw up right?
So it's not just a bunch of reviews, you
know, throwing back and saying, Hey, this is
what actually happened and blah, blah, blah.
You know, it does happen from time to
time and we are human.
That's the other thing people need to
understand is we are human, we're not robots.
We're not mad, you know, and we're not
Walmart or Costco.
We don't, we don't have a 365 day return
policy and you can bring it in covered in mud
and blah, blah, blah.
Right.
We're a privately owned business and,
you know, everyone has to be reasonable
in the transaction.
Yeah.
That's one of the things that I see some
businesses trying to do is a compete on price
alone because they've got the Walmarts out
there and they've got the, uh, the Costco's.
And I see that if, if that's your main
motivating factor, your, of course is going
to be people who are always price shopping.
Yeah.
But especially in the world where you're trying
to set up a relationship, because if you purchase a
firearm, there's going to be ancillary purchases,
might be holsters, there might be ammunition,
there might be extra magazines, there's all
these other things.
And then it might break and you might need, so.
Exactly.
You're in the business of, is setting
up relationships.
That's what we look for yep.
Right.
And those relationships are worth something.
And there shouldn't, customers shouldn't
be looking at the bottom of the barrel
because they know that that relationship
is going to be worth what they paid for it.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a, an aspect.
A lot of people bring up with me that we're
not always the cheapest.
Sure.
And I just tell them I'm not looking to
be the cheapest.
I don't.
Good for you.
I don't want to be, I'm not a one, one,
the fact is I got to make a living.
Right.
That's just is what it is to, you
know, classic line.
You can, what is it?
Speed, service and quality.
You only pick two.
Two, but not three.
Exactly.
Right.
And there are some shops in Canada, even in the
gun industry that like, you know, it's all
about price and that's it and that's fine.
And for some people that's a very
important part.
And Hey man, like I love saving a few bucks, but
I'm the kind of guy is when I, I go somewhere.
I build a relationship with the people
that I buy from.
Right.
That's the aspect of it.
A lot of the times it is, if people ask me to price
match, I can usually do something, but you know,
I'll put it out here for everyone to hear.
I'm not always the cheapest and I don't,
and that's intentional.
It's not for any other reason.
Um, the service and the quality we try
to give our customers requires it sometimes,
uh, other times, you know what people just
assume we're more expensive and we're not.
You know, sometimes we're a lot cheaper.
Oh you got great prices and a lot of things.
Yeah.
But a lot, you know, that's the one thing
I have heard is people say that and
I, you know, it is.
We're not looking to be a bargain bin shop,
um, bargain bin shops don't stick around.
That's just.
Well, you guys have been around for quite a long
time, but you know, part of that process is you're
training your clients.
You're training your customers.
You're, you're telling them how you would
like to be treated.
And you're showing that through example
of how you treat them.
A hundred percent.
It's same in the reviews as well.
I mean, you could try and placate all the
people who were being wholly unreasonable,
then all you're gonna do is invite more people
to be unreasonable to copy of that example.
A hundred percent.
And it's like, you know, once you, once you'd
bend over once, right.
And, you know, do your, I don't want to say
it like that, but like somebody who's just
re blatantly being unreasonable for the sake
of being unreasonable.
Like, we're not interested or I'm
not saying I'm not interested, but it's
like, that's not a relationship that's
gonna last because it's just, you're just going
to skip across, across, across until somebody,
you know, bends over and says, okay, yeah, I'll
do whatever you want.
Please don't leave me a bad Google review.
Um, but the reality, the fact is those are
few and far between.
They really are.
Um, there are some places that, um, inspire that
kind of mentality and that, you know, there are
some, a few places on the internet that, that is
somewhere that people.
Yeah, Gun Nutz.
Yeah, I'll say it.
Yeah, Canadian Gun Nutz.
Damn.
I think that's part of the, uh, the business
model from a, the fellow who runs it.
Yeah.
I mean, and that is a place.
And like, you know, I, I was on Gun Nutz.
I started on Gun Nutz in 2007 back then it was
a like a real resource from the Canadian
firearms community.
What I see, and I don't know if it, maybe I'm
jaded because now I'm in the industry, but
it's pretty, it that you go to that dealer
for a man, there's some crazy shit people
are posting on there.
And it is like, unbelievable.
Like people won't even call the store to try
to remedy the problem.
They'll just immediately dump on them.
But if
you pay X amount of money, you can have all
of that stuff removed.
Yeah.
And I, um, the paranoid, the suspicious side of
me has always leaned to whenever I see
these things happening, cause I've dealt with
them in the past.
Uh, it seems like it's actually encouraged to
crap on another business.
So that business will then in turn, be
encouraged to pay money to that a media outlet.
To have that negative content removed.
Yeah.
Maybe I'm off base, but that's been
my observation.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, we've been on CGN since it started.
Um, and uh, this year we decided to not renew
on there, um, for a multitude of reasons.
One, the one we just talked about.
Right.
Um, two, I want to explore other advertising
opportunities.
Sure.
Um, I've got some pretty cool ideas I want to
do, and that requires money and that website
ain't cheap to be on.
No, not at all.
It is pretty pricey.
Um, so yeah, this will be the first year we
don't won't renew on it and you know what I
hope, um, I don't know, whatever, if it helps,
it doesn't help, I just hope other dealers on
there realize that it's not the be all end all
center of the universe for firearms ownership.
There's a lot of people who have no
idea what it is.
Um, and to like, you know, our customers
know who we are in.
Right.
You know, we've been on that site for a
very long time and, um, it's just time to
check other stuff out.
You know, I don't begrudge anybody from
wanting to make a living regardless of
the price they want to charge for it, on
CGN for example, it's really, really expensive.
My concern about that platform was
essentially how it was set up as a very
negative environment, in my opinion.
And particularly in a way that attacks
businesses that are not sponsoring dealers and.
Oh yeah, I see what you're saying.
And that feeds into an eat your own mentality.
It's got enough traction.
I mean, when that one started up, it
was just a bulletin board system type
thing back in the day.
And, uh, uh, they got booted off their
other system and the owner, uh, there, he
says, well I know.
I'll just, I got a domain, I'll start it up.
And he kinda got the thing rolling.
Um, it's got traction, it's got a lot of
people on there who are knowledgeable.
But just like you are training your
own customers.
I believe they've been training their
own user base in such a way that is rather
toxic for the Canadian firearms culture.
A hundred percent.
And then there's other stuff too.
Like, um, there's been a shift on that site to
some pretty weird shit being posted on there.
Um, in regards to like, You know, conspiracy
theory stuff and.
Gets a little fringe lunatic.
Yeah.
And you know what I mean?
And like, that's kind of where that was more
of my portion of, it was like, I was just like,
I've seen them kind of, what's getting posted
in the forums and I'm like, oh man, like, it's.
It doesn't speak to my values.
It doesn't speak.
Yeah.
It doesn't speak to my values.
I don't like, you know, it's just not
what I don't want to be associated with,
you know, with crazy conspiracy theories
and, you know, anti-this anti that.
Um, there's some stuff that gets posted on
there and then it's just, it is what it is.
It's, it's an internet, it's a
free internet forum.
It is.
And you know, my intention with a
podcast is always to impart some positivity
and I'm not trying to impart negativity here
at on one particular.
But it's a, it's a known thing though, right?
Like, I didn't want to say it.
You brought it up and.
Well the reason why to go further.
Why we've, I've wanted to go further into
this anyways is because Ifigure,, they have
enough people on there.
Maybe if enough people start talking and
noticing they will make a shift because there's
a real valuable resource in every single forum
to be able to help businesses and help
help the industry as opposed to continuing
that, eat your own.
Yeah, exactly.
And then, like, I probably, you know,
like with that base that's on there.
If they've all got to get.
Like, and the mentality and the mentality changed
from, um, a bargain kind of who's selling what
for the cheapest and, um, you know, shitting
on other businesses and even businesses that are
on there that paid money on their get crapped on
all the time on there.
Right.
And then it's up to the business to like,
monitor, not just their forums, but
the other forums of people could be like,
it's this whole thing.
But anyways, um, it could be like one of
the biggest resources, the Canadian firearms
owners, right?
Like if, uh, the tone of it just changed and
whatnot, um, it could be like a serious,
serious place for people to get together
and make some change.
But I mean, at its current, what it is
currently, I mean.
Yeah.
Is what it is.
Maybe, you know, I've seen others try to
set up other forums, but no, one's really
kind of gotten the traction that that has.
If you're listening to this, give us a call.
We'd be happy to give you some ideas on,
on ways that you can, uh, or give me a call.
I don't wanna speak for you Matt.
Give you some ideas on ways that you can really
positively impact the firearms community.
Yeah.
And they're not big changes.
No.
Like it's not.
It wouldn't be like an overhaul or
anything like that.
Like it'd just be some small stuff and.
Yeah.
It'd be, it'd be, it'd be back to being a
epicenter of Canadian firearm ownership.
Cause it used to be that.
Right.
Back in '04.
It was gun guys just by posting reviews and
look at this cool thing.
Look at that cool thing.
And then I just kind of feel like
it's veered off to.
You know I had a, uh, actually in the process
of selling it, but firearms, canada.com.
So that's one that I've had for,
geez I don't know.
It's been around since '01 and, uh, man, the
amount of hate that I got on that one
from, uh, from Gun Nutz in particular.
Cause it had to buy and sell and, and Gun Nutz
was just like I ain't got to set up a buy and sell.
Um, it was, uh, was eye opening.
And um, where I've always taken the approach
of how can I help out another business?
Yeah.
How can I.
Maybe it says laziness.
Maybe it's just me being lazy.
I don't want to do it all myself.
Yeah.
Right.
I, I want it, I want to do it with other people
who are like-minded.
Yeah, totally.
Who are moving in the same direction.
Yeah, different ideas.
Right.
So anyways.
Um, so finding people to work at your, uh, your
establishment there, your fine establishment.
Yeah.
That's probably really, really easy.
Right.
Ha!
I don't care
what anybody says.
It is tough to find people these days, man.
Holy Crow.
Yeah.
And just, um, it was tough before
the pandemic, after the pandemic,
it's just, yeah.
It's, it's super tough.
Are people still being incentivized to
basically not work like when COVID first hit?
Yeah, why would you, right?
Yeah.
You know, it's and that's the thing is so many
people were unemployed, um, and need to start
working, but they have to start working at
the bottom, but what's the point of working
at the bottom and not getting paid as much as
if you were unemployed.
Right.
You hear what I'm saying?
Or even if it's just a couple of hundred extra
bucks, but now you're working 40 hours a week.
Right.
That's the point.
Yeah.
Right.
So, um, yeah, no, it's, it's always, you know,
there's always, it's always tough because
you get the point of entry of having
a firearms license.
There's your first one.
So there it goes, call it 50% of the workforce
or 60% of the workforce, whatever it is, then you
got to have somebody come in, who realizes that?
Who treats it?
Like what?
There's two things.
There's the job description of, Hey man,
it's a part-time thing.
You get the discount.
I need you on Saturdays and whatever other days.
Right.
That's cool.
That's easy finding those people's stuff.
Then you got to, if you want to find somebody
who's going to last long and grow with
your business, that's even harder because the
mentality of starting at the bottom and working
your way up, like a, to me, it's second
nature, but I've slowly learned over the years.
That is, it is not normal.
No it isn't.
And a lot of people aren't interested in it.
Right.
Everyone wants to come and it'd be the boss.
And even if like, you know what I mean, if
you've got, if you went to college and all that
kind of stuff, that doesn't help you in
the firearms community.
Well, they see the trappings of what
success can bring.
Yeah.
But they don't see all the difficulties
that you've had to go through and continue
to go through on a routine basis in order
to have those traffics.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
So, um, we've been really lucky recently it got
some really solid dudes.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.
And like, you know, there's, there's a
few gun shops in the lower mainland here
and it's like, we're all trying to pull the
same people essentially right, you know.
Um, so yeah, it can be tough.
Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, if you want
to work in the firearms community, I will tell
you right now that, uh, let's go get the job and
then start at the bottom, work your way up and
you'll be there forever.
So it's super simple, man.
Like gun shops, every shop I've worked at, um,
you know, the guys who stick out like become,
you become essential to the business.
Totally.
We need you and you become part
of the family.
And that's the thing with gun shops.
I don't know about other, I know of the
places I've worked.
Um, I consider every one of my employees, like,
we're like a big family.
We hang out, we all go shooting together.
We all, you know, go to the pub together and
we all hang out, right.
So that's what it ends up being, right.
So it can be super cool.
It can be just as fun as you think
it's going to be.
It just requires a little bit of work.
Yeah.
That's all it is.
There's a lot to learn.
You guys are hiring right now aren't you?
Uh, no, uh, we just filled a spot, but we
might need somebody coming up here, but yeah.
Well, if you got a, if you have an
interest to work in.
We're always looking for resumes people.
Yes.
Send 'em on in.
Yeah, for sure.
Check the website for details.
No doubt 'eh.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Anything that we haven't covered that we should.
I don't know, man.
I feel like we had a pretty, pretty rad chats.
I do too.
Yeah man.
Really enjoyed it.
It was a lot of fun thank you very
much for having me.
Thank you for being on The Silvercore Podcast.