WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I would say there are a few things in terms of kind 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:04.050 of building collaboration alignment. 00:00:04.390 --> 00:00:09.400 One, is the one where people say, leave the ego at your, at the door, right? 00:00:09.450 --> 00:00:13.650 It's if you have an approach that's my way or the highway, it's very difficult 00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:16.330 to build collaborative initiatives, right? 00:00:16.630 --> 00:00:21.180 Need to come with the mentality of, my agenda may not be exactly the 00:00:21.180 --> 00:00:24.840 same as every other organization's agenda, but there's enough common 00:00:24.970 --> 00:00:29.900 issues that we want to join on that we can work together on those issues, 00:00:34.535 --> 00:00:37.325 voiceover: A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:37.325 --> 00:00:40.875 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:41.395 --> 00:00:45.385 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:45.385 --> 00:00:49.005 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:49.005 --> 00:00:52.755 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:53.305 --> 00:00:56.235 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:56.245 --> 00:00:57.865 here on The Chemical Show. 00:00:58.315 --> 00:01:02.405 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and host of The 00:01:02.405 --> 00:01:06.390 Chemical Show, As she speaks with executives across the industry and 00:01:06.390 --> 00:01:10.660 learns how they are leading their companies to grow, transform, and push 00:01:10.690 --> 00:01:13.150 industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:15.740 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:01:22.425 --> 00:01:23.935 Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:01:24.095 --> 00:01:27.745 Welcome back to The Chemical Show, where chemicals means business. 00:01:28.095 --> 00:01:32.815 Today, I am speaking with Karin Kirchnick of the American Chemistry 00:01:32.815 --> 00:01:34.725 Council, also known as ACC. 00:01:35.215 --> 00:01:38.665 Karin is the Managing Director of Sustainability for ACC. 00:01:39.305 --> 00:01:43.375 She's an environmental lawyer by training and has been working throughout her career 00:01:43.375 --> 00:01:48.175 to improve policies and procedures related to sustainable development worldwide. 00:01:48.535 --> 00:01:53.475 Prior to joining ACC, Karin worked at the World Bank where she partnered 00:01:53.495 --> 00:01:59.045 with over 300 companies to in multi stakeholder mechanisms, that's a tongue 00:01:59.045 --> 00:02:04.685 twister to advance programs, projects, and policy reform to accelerate action to 00:02:04.685 --> 00:02:06.225 meet the sustainable development goals. 00:02:06.475 --> 00:02:09.195 There's a lot more that I can talk about with Karin and we're going to 00:02:09.195 --> 00:02:11.755 get to it as we have our conversation. 00:02:11.755 --> 00:02:13.595 So Karin, welcome to The Chemical Show. 00:02:14.153 --> 00:02:14.563 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Thank you. 00:02:14.563 --> 00:02:15.673 Thanks for having me. 00:02:15.985 --> 00:02:17.305 Victoria: I'm really glad to have you here. 00:02:17.785 --> 00:02:20.295 Let's just start out with a little bit on your career. 00:02:20.295 --> 00:02:25.575 And what prompted your interest in environmental law and ultimately 00:02:25.575 --> 00:02:26.825 a career in sustainability? 00:02:27.503 --> 00:02:28.553 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: So I'll be honest. 00:02:28.563 --> 00:02:31.033 My original intent was to be a criminal lawyer. 00:02:31.083 --> 00:02:34.983 And I do watch a lot of the criminal law shows these days to make up the 00:02:34.983 --> 00:02:36.613 fact that didn't go into criminal law. 00:02:36.885 --> 00:02:37.345 Victoria: There we go. 00:02:38.135 --> 00:02:38.435 Yeah, 00:02:38.783 --> 00:02:42.683 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: but I, so it was actually when I was in law school, 00:02:42.723 --> 00:02:46.733 I international environmental law was beginning to be like an emerging field. 00:02:47.003 --> 00:02:51.523 And, my family had always been, interested in environmental issues. 00:02:51.573 --> 00:02:53.923 We immigrated from what was Czechoslovakia. 00:02:53.923 --> 00:02:55.343 I was born in Slovakia. 00:02:55.673 --> 00:03:01.073 So it was also right after the fall of the wall and the new Central and 00:03:01.073 --> 00:03:04.113 Eastern Europe that was emerging and international environmental 00:03:04.113 --> 00:03:05.603 law was an emerging area as well. 00:03:05.603 --> 00:03:11.293 So I decided to go into that and then from there really build it into bringing 00:03:11.343 --> 00:03:16.613 that expertise in what was sustainable development to Central Eastern Europe 00:03:16.943 --> 00:03:18.483 and the newly independent states. 00:03:18.583 --> 00:03:24.593 So my first work out after law school was actually based in Slovakia 00:03:24.613 --> 00:03:28.763 Czechoslovakia, now Slovakia working on environmental issues, looking 00:03:28.793 --> 00:03:30.803 at air, water, and waste issues. 00:03:30.843 --> 00:03:34.623 And then from there started working in the other countries in Central Eastern Europe. 00:03:34.623 --> 00:03:38.563 So it was a combination of kind of family background history, 00:03:38.908 --> 00:03:40.988 But also a new and emerging area. 00:03:41.008 --> 00:03:44.058 Environmental law, it was an area in international law, but 00:03:44.058 --> 00:03:47.278 international environmental law was really beginning to take hold. 00:03:47.548 --> 00:03:49.848 And to me it was really intriguing and I did want to spend my 00:03:49.848 --> 00:03:51.698 career working around the world. 00:03:51.698 --> 00:03:53.858 So it came together in that way. 00:03:54.255 --> 00:03:55.075 Victoria: that's really cool. 00:03:55.115 --> 00:03:59.915 I did not realize that you had really started out being very global. 00:03:59.945 --> 00:04:05.375 And as you say, focusing on Slovakia and addressing the environmental topics there. 00:04:05.375 --> 00:04:10.640 Now Chernobyl was obviously a big issue in Eastern Europe. 00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:13.530 And when, was that around the time that you were coming out? 00:04:13.530 --> 00:04:14.850 I don't even remember what year that was. 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:15.470 So was that 00:04:15.503 --> 00:04:18.613 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: It's a really honestly, I that's a good question. 00:04:18.613 --> 00:04:19.773 And when was Chernobyl? 00:04:19.913 --> 00:04:20.053 I 00:04:20.126 --> 00:04:20.526 should know 00:04:20.793 --> 00:04:23.793 because my one of my mom's cousins worked for the atomic 00:04:23.793 --> 00:04:25.753 power plant that was in Slovakia. 00:04:26.083 --> 00:04:28.373 But we were always focused on that atomic power plant. 00:04:28.373 --> 00:04:31.043 So to be honest, I don't remember. 00:04:31.043 --> 00:04:36.803 But the issues around the kind of formal Central Eastern Europe and what 00:04:36.833 --> 00:04:40.563 the environmental health looked like after all those decades, including 00:04:40.563 --> 00:04:44.913 Chernobyl, depending on when that happened definitely was a key topic, right? 00:04:44.923 --> 00:04:48.943 In, in terms of trying to address what were legacy issues, but also what is 00:04:48.963 --> 00:04:53.303 like the new environmental law field look like for the newly independent states in 00:04:53.303 --> 00:04:54.883 Central and Eastern European countries. 00:04:55.125 --> 00:04:59.365 Victoria: So my bias being an American and and frankly, just not knowing a 00:04:59.365 --> 00:05:04.595 lot about Eastern Europe is I have an assumption that it just that the laws 00:05:04.615 --> 00:05:09.715 were not as rigorous as perhaps they were in the U S and Europe, as they 00:05:10.025 --> 00:05:12.995 approached environmental concerns. 00:05:12.995 --> 00:05:13.645 Is that true? 00:05:13.645 --> 00:05:14.735 Is that a fair statement? 00:05:15.753 --> 00:05:18.973 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: It's a fair statement in that I remember, 00:05:18.973 --> 00:05:22.863 it's funny you spring that up because actually when I was working and I lived 00:05:22.863 --> 00:05:26.773 in Russia, I was working in Russia also in, in this was the late 90s 00:05:27.223 --> 00:05:31.703 we couldn't find a term for the word enforcement and you had to use basically 00:05:31.703 --> 00:05:36.413 like several sentences of Russian to convey what you mean by enforcement. 00:05:36.733 --> 00:05:37.853 So it's true. 00:05:37.853 --> 00:05:42.303 Yes, it was definitely the strictness was not there, but also 00:05:42.303 --> 00:05:46.043 the kind of the comprehensiveness right around environmental 00:05:46.063 --> 00:05:48.133 law, regulations and policies. 00:05:48.453 --> 00:05:49.303 The basics were there. 00:05:49.303 --> 00:05:50.503 They have codes, right? 00:05:50.533 --> 00:05:55.083 Water code, all the different codes, but in terms of kind of the depth 00:05:55.083 --> 00:05:57.063 that you would say, here in the U. 00:05:57.063 --> 00:05:57.463 S. 00:05:57.543 --> 00:06:00.113 Certainly was not there, but it was an emerging area. 00:06:00.113 --> 00:06:00.713 Certainly. 00:06:00.713 --> 00:06:00.733 Okay. 00:06:01.415 --> 00:06:03.975 Victoria: And obviously we know that, across the globe, the US 00:06:03.975 --> 00:06:08.355 being no exception, that enforcement has not always been consistent. 00:06:08.475 --> 00:06:13.025 In fact, my husband and I just watched the movie, Erin Brockovich last night. 00:06:13.395 --> 00:06:16.135 And it's been many years since I watched it and it's a great movie 00:06:16.135 --> 00:06:21.755 and it's Oh yeah, a lot of nastiness has happened from an environmental 00:06:21.755 --> 00:06:24.755 perspective for a variety of reasons. 00:06:24.765 --> 00:06:27.015 So I'm really glad number one, I'm glad that we're living 00:06:27.015 --> 00:06:28.125 in the times that we're in. 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:34.220 And as challenging as some of our policies and getting agreement on 00:06:34.220 --> 00:06:40.090 policies can be, I also recognize it's, it is creating a better life and 00:06:40.090 --> 00:06:44.560 environment for myself, my family, my peers, the people around us, et cetera. 00:06:44.923 --> 00:06:45.473 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Absolutely. 00:06:45.473 --> 00:06:48.383 Yeah, I will say if I can do a shout out, I worked for a period 00:06:48.383 --> 00:06:51.223 of time for the American Bar Association, so they had a Central 00:06:51.223 --> 00:06:52.823 and Eastern European law initiative 00:06:52.973 --> 00:06:57.503 That they developed, which was really about bringing, lawyers from the U. 00:06:57.503 --> 00:06:57.893 S. 00:06:57.933 --> 00:07:01.193 with, backgrounds and experiences in different fields of law. 00:07:01.193 --> 00:07:04.203 It wasn't just environmental in terms of how to bring these 00:07:04.203 --> 00:07:05.803 concepts and ideas around. 00:07:05.863 --> 00:07:07.153 A law reform forward. 00:07:07.163 --> 00:07:07.773 So it was great. 00:07:07.773 --> 00:07:11.403 Working with judges, law students, prosecutor offices, the whole 00:07:11.413 --> 00:07:14.433 gamut of the legal system is really incredible experience. 00:07:14.615 --> 00:07:15.695 Victoria: That would be really awesome. 00:07:15.745 --> 00:07:16.465 I can imagine. 00:07:16.645 --> 00:07:20.855 And then you spent a big part of your career most recently at the World Bank 00:07:20.905 --> 00:07:23.055 and focusing in, I think a lot on water. 00:07:23.055 --> 00:07:23.655 Is that right? 00:07:24.203 --> 00:07:24.693 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I did. 00:07:24.693 --> 00:07:28.603 So I was managing what's called the 2030 water resources group. 00:07:28.613 --> 00:07:31.683 It was actually an initiative that had been founded by the World Economic 00:07:31.683 --> 00:07:34.308 Forum and then moved over in transition. 00:07:34.308 --> 00:07:37.578 The World Economic Forum transitions develops initiatives and then transitions 00:07:37.578 --> 00:07:39.278 to other hosting institutions. 00:07:39.688 --> 00:07:41.098 So it moved over the World Bank. 00:07:41.098 --> 00:07:44.658 And then that's when I was hired to come in and manage the 2030 Water 00:07:44.658 --> 00:07:49.158 Resources Group, which has water in the title, water is so cross cutting. 00:07:49.168 --> 00:07:56.178 So worked with agriculture, technology, textiles, mining companies, the whole 00:07:56.188 --> 00:07:58.358 gamut, because water touches everything. 00:07:58.658 --> 00:08:01.508 And the idea was really building these multi stakeholder platforms. 00:08:01.508 --> 00:08:04.438 As you said, the term multi stakeholder platforms, it's an 00:08:04.438 --> 00:08:08.578 important term, but a lot to say there in terms of bringing governments. 00:08:09.048 --> 00:08:13.158 Industry companies and organizations, non government organizations 00:08:13.158 --> 00:08:14.918 together to work on different issues. 00:08:15.158 --> 00:08:18.078 In this case, it was related to water, but it really was very, 00:08:18.148 --> 00:08:19.698 cross cutting and very broad. 00:08:20.028 --> 00:08:21.858 As I said, since water touches everything. 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:22.470 Victoria: Yeah. 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:22.890 All right. 00:08:22.890 --> 00:08:24.800 So I was going to ask this question later, but I'm going to bring 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:26.550 it forward in our conversation. 00:08:26.990 --> 00:08:30.180 Building alignment is such a challenge. 00:08:30.210 --> 00:08:33.990 Building alignment inside of a company when, you're all working 00:08:34.050 --> 00:08:38.280 theoretically for the same purpose with the same interests is challenging. 00:08:38.640 --> 00:08:43.010 And then building alignment across multiple stakeholders 00:08:43.020 --> 00:08:44.970 is is a real challenge. 00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:47.140 And what have you found to be. 00:08:47.965 --> 00:08:52.145 the real critical, significant things that help to get to that alignment. 00:08:52.758 --> 00:08:55.478 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: So I would say there are a few things in terms of 00:08:55.478 --> 00:08:57.438 kind of building collaboration alignment. 00:08:57.778 --> 00:09:02.788 One, is the one where people say, leave the ego at your, at the door, right? 00:09:02.838 --> 00:09:07.038 It's if you have an approach that's my way or the highway, it's very difficult 00:09:07.048 --> 00:09:09.718 to build collaborative initiatives, right? 00:09:10.018 --> 00:09:14.758 Need to come with the mentality of, my agenda may not be exactly the same 00:09:14.758 --> 00:09:19.048 as every other organization's agenda, but there's enough common issues 00:09:19.078 --> 00:09:23.508 that we want to join on that we can work together on those issues, right? 00:09:23.548 --> 00:09:26.468 You don't have to have everything in alignment, right? 00:09:26.468 --> 00:09:31.088 If you think about, your spouses or partners or close friends, it's not 00:09:31.088 --> 00:09:32.848 that you agree on everything, right? 00:09:32.868 --> 00:09:37.698 But there's enough something there, a core that you agree on that you say, okay, we 00:09:37.698 --> 00:09:40.588 want to have this collaboration, right? 00:09:40.598 --> 00:09:43.498 And that's with organizations, I would say the same as well. 00:09:43.908 --> 00:09:45.498 The other I would say is patience. 00:09:45.788 --> 00:09:49.368 Because it's a lot of times I've found in my career. 00:09:49.893 --> 00:09:53.103 You're taking two steps forward and maybe five steps backwards. 00:09:53.113 --> 00:09:57.323 Sometimes it seems like it's not always like the steps forward. 00:09:57.323 --> 00:10:01.363 There are sometimes steps back because you need to look again at where is 00:10:01.363 --> 00:10:05.743 that common agenda or there might be differences of opinions that you just 00:10:05.743 --> 00:10:09.533 need to work through or your approach or methodologies or whatever it may be. 00:10:09.533 --> 00:10:11.833 So having that patience is important. 00:10:11.833 --> 00:10:13.603 And then I would say communication. 00:10:13.653 --> 00:10:15.803 You really, for collaborative. 00:10:16.123 --> 00:10:19.723 Initiatives to work, there needs to be an open channel of communication. 00:10:19.773 --> 00:10:23.443 And it's not to say that, you have to put your, wear your heart on your sleeve 00:10:23.443 --> 00:10:25.123 and kind of put everything out there. 00:10:25.403 --> 00:10:29.123 But you need to be openly communicative enough that when there are some 00:10:29.123 --> 00:10:30.713 differences, you can work through them. 00:10:30.763 --> 00:10:33.068 And that's where that patience comes in as well. 00:10:33.168 --> 00:10:37.358 But at the core, having some sort of a common agenda to be able to 00:10:37.358 --> 00:10:41.188 say, okay, we're going to work on this together and we have certain 00:10:41.188 --> 00:10:43.078 outcomes that we want to achieve. 00:10:43.508 --> 00:10:46.678 And that's what we're going to put foremost in this collaboration. 00:10:47.140 --> 00:10:47.490 Victoria: Yeah. 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:48.240 I think that's great. 00:10:48.250 --> 00:10:51.530 And I think as you maybe started with certainly having this 00:10:51.530 --> 00:10:57.340 belief of positive intent, that everybody's got a positive intent in. 00:10:57.560 --> 00:11:01.170 trying to achieve their outcomes and their desired objectives may not be 00:11:01.170 --> 00:11:05.230 aligned, but the positive intent that they're doing this to make positive 00:11:05.230 --> 00:11:10.450 progress is so critical because it helps move past some of the disagreements. 00:11:10.598 --> 00:11:11.178 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Exactly. 00:11:11.178 --> 00:11:14.458 And I said, it, like I said, it doesn't mean that you have to agree on everything. 00:11:14.848 --> 00:11:18.298 But there needs to be enough of that core, and as you said, the positive 00:11:18.298 --> 00:11:23.168 intent for what you want to achieve and that you're willing to, when you have 00:11:23.168 --> 00:11:24.988 those steps backwards, then you're set. 00:11:25.008 --> 00:11:27.538 It's not that you give up on the collaboration, right? 00:11:27.978 --> 00:11:28.768 There's enough there. 00:11:28.768 --> 00:11:31.738 You say, okay we're going to keep moving forward and ultimately in the end, 00:11:31.748 --> 00:11:34.088 hopefully for those positive outcomes. 00:11:34.665 --> 00:11:35.175 Victoria: That's great. 00:11:35.555 --> 00:11:38.545 So let's turn the focus a little bit to ACC. 00:11:38.545 --> 00:11:40.065 So you've been there now a couple of years. 00:11:40.755 --> 00:11:42.095 Tell us, what's your role? 00:11:42.095 --> 00:11:44.035 What's your focus at ACC? 00:11:44.578 --> 00:11:47.708 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: So I managing sustainability, which is great. 00:11:47.748 --> 00:11:53.618 And we have one of the things I think I would say that attracted me to ACC is 00:11:53.958 --> 00:11:58.058 we have the foundation of responsible care for the last 35 years, right? 00:11:58.088 --> 00:12:00.878 That is the foundation around safety and sustainability. 00:12:01.258 --> 00:12:04.668 The chemical industry in terms of advancing responsible 00:12:04.668 --> 00:12:06.088 care I think is incredible. 00:12:06.388 --> 00:12:08.428 That already is a foundation that's there. 00:12:08.428 --> 00:12:09.798 And that really attracted me. 00:12:09.798 --> 00:12:13.488 So coming in this role for sustainability, which, has been a 00:12:13.528 --> 00:12:15.778 evolving um, division within ACC. 00:12:16.228 --> 00:12:18.398 Sustainability is still very much evolving. 00:12:18.398 --> 00:12:19.488 It's one of those things. 00:12:19.803 --> 00:12:22.883 I've been working on it for 25, 28 years. 00:12:23.213 --> 00:12:27.463 And I think in the last few years, the pace of change is 00:12:27.503 --> 00:12:29.233 unlike what it was 20 years ago. 00:12:29.233 --> 00:12:32.113 I mean now, when I look back then it's boy, it was like molasses in 00:12:32.113 --> 00:12:33.853 terms of sustainability issues. 00:12:33.883 --> 00:12:35.333 But it's really rapidly advancing. 00:12:35.333 --> 00:12:39.273 And so it's ACC as well, to be proactive and looking at these issues. 00:12:39.273 --> 00:12:41.803 There are a number of areas that we work on, of course, climate change. 00:12:42.163 --> 00:12:44.393 That's always on everybody's mind in terms of how do we 00:12:44.393 --> 00:12:46.263 lower greenhouse gas emissions? 00:12:46.518 --> 00:12:49.128 How do we catalyze innovation and so forth? 00:12:49.508 --> 00:12:52.618 The other areas around water which is an area that I have focused a 00:12:52.618 --> 00:12:55.828 lot on, even though my background really, I've, worked on climate, air, 00:12:55.828 --> 00:13:00.528 water, waste issues, water is always, something there that is intriguing 00:13:00.528 --> 00:13:02.038 in terms of addressing water issues. 00:13:02.038 --> 00:13:02.378 And. 00:13:02.378 --> 00:13:05.198 It's ACC, one of, within our sustainability work is also 00:13:05.198 --> 00:13:06.748 one of our priorities as well. 00:13:07.148 --> 00:13:09.938 The other area of work for us is around air. 00:13:09.978 --> 00:13:14.948 So in improving and addressing air quality is another area, which is again, I've 00:13:14.948 --> 00:13:18.458 worked on, so it's really interesting to be able to work with the chemical 00:13:18.458 --> 00:13:20.718 industry and advancing air quality. 00:13:21.088 --> 00:13:23.008 The other is around sustainable chemistry. 00:13:23.278 --> 00:13:24.768 And how to. 00:13:24.963 --> 00:13:28.673 Promote innovation in terms of a sustainable chemistry going forward, 00:13:29.043 --> 00:13:33.393 and then the last areas really cross cutting is circularity, right? 00:13:33.433 --> 00:13:37.143 There's a lot that's been over the last few years around circularity. 00:13:37.143 --> 00:13:38.593 What do we mean by circularity? 00:13:38.613 --> 00:13:41.613 How do we move from something that was linear to circular? 00:13:42.073 --> 00:13:45.103 But how do you do that within all aspects of circularity? 00:13:45.123 --> 00:13:49.113 In terms of reuse, reducing and so forth, as well as the innovation there. 00:13:49.113 --> 00:13:52.733 So those are the key areas that we're working on sustainability. 00:13:52.963 --> 00:13:54.443 We work supporting our members. 00:13:54.453 --> 00:13:57.773 So as new and emerging areas are coming up as well, we're making sure that 00:13:57.773 --> 00:14:01.753 we're tracking and looking to see how we can support our members to really 00:14:01.753 --> 00:14:03.443 be at the forefront of sustainability. 00:14:03.855 --> 00:14:06.405 Victoria: And in sustainability to say you've been working in this space 00:14:06.415 --> 00:14:10.605 for, 25 years It's certainly evolved. 00:14:10.615 --> 00:14:15.205 I agree with you that the pace of change and the pace of interest in the focus 00:14:15.205 --> 00:14:21.445 on sustainability has rapidly increased at the same time I've talked with some 00:14:21.445 --> 00:14:26.405 people who are like we're getting a little tired of talking sustainability 00:14:26.405 --> 00:14:29.695 first that there really has to be a business case and that sustainability 00:14:29.695 --> 00:14:34.635 needs to, it's critical and it's an underpinning but it's not all of business. 00:14:34.635 --> 00:14:38.405 And so I think striking that balance is something that companies are 00:14:38.405 --> 00:14:40.015 working on and maybe struggling with. 00:14:40.015 --> 00:14:42.855 And maybe you see that when you guys work with your constituents. 00:14:43.328 --> 00:14:43.898 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: That's true. 00:14:43.898 --> 00:14:45.048 I would say that's true. 00:14:45.048 --> 00:14:48.708 But I think if we look at sustainability overall, if you think 00:14:48.718 --> 00:14:51.498 about sustainability and kind of the origins of sustainable development, 00:14:51.508 --> 00:14:55.698 the definition, so forth, back then, if you look at different processes, 00:14:55.928 --> 00:14:59.508 especially UN processes and other processes, it was really governments. 00:15:00.103 --> 00:15:02.373 That we're discussing sustainable development, 00:15:02.383 --> 00:15:04.483 setting, agenda 21 and so forth. 00:15:04.773 --> 00:15:08.033 And then the non governmental organizations came in and 00:15:08.053 --> 00:15:09.913 private sector came in later. 00:15:09.963 --> 00:15:13.173 I have to say I was in New York when the sustainable development 00:15:13.173 --> 00:15:16.413 goals were being adopted, and I've been involved in kind of the U. 00:15:16.413 --> 00:15:16.533 N. 00:15:16.543 --> 00:15:19.948 Commission on Sustainable Development for, I guess 10 years at that point, 00:15:20.358 --> 00:15:24.768 and it was the first time that the private sector was actually addressed 00:15:24.778 --> 00:15:30.558 by governments to say, as a key partner or in as part of sustainability and 00:15:30.568 --> 00:15:32.158 the sustainable development agenda. 00:15:32.458 --> 00:15:35.678 And that wasn't that long ago, if we think about it. 00:15:35.708 --> 00:15:39.328 And I think the other challenge too at that time was, many were, I'm not 00:15:39.328 --> 00:15:41.808 saying everyone, but a lot of people were looking at industry as kind 00:15:41.808 --> 00:15:46.728 of an ATM machine, of just bring in money to solve sustainability issues. 00:15:46.778 --> 00:15:48.968 And that's not the right approach, right? 00:15:50.398 --> 00:15:53.738 is part of the solutions, and I see that even with our chemical 00:15:53.738 --> 00:15:59.578 industry, our members really being the enablers of a sustainable future. 00:15:59.958 --> 00:16:00.478 But you're right. 00:16:00.518 --> 00:16:03.278 It does take time to build that business case. 00:16:03.453 --> 00:16:05.283 And it looks different for everyone, right? 00:16:05.323 --> 00:16:07.203 We have small and medium sized members. 00:16:07.203 --> 00:16:10.133 We have large members for small and medium sized members. 00:16:10.423 --> 00:16:13.023 There's a lot that people are trying to manage. 00:16:13.043 --> 00:16:15.573 There's, they don't have entire sustainability departments. 00:16:15.943 --> 00:16:19.643 And so it takes time and that's where I think, that when I alluded to 00:16:19.643 --> 00:16:22.503 kind of patients, important, right? 00:16:22.503 --> 00:16:25.073 Because it does, you do have to build that business case. 00:16:25.073 --> 00:16:28.113 And even in my previous role at the World Bank, when we were building 00:16:28.173 --> 00:16:32.473 partnerships, we had to build the business case, but it takes time because it can 00:16:32.473 --> 00:16:34.163 look different for everyone involved. 00:16:34.163 --> 00:16:35.073 Victoria: I Think that's a great point. 00:16:35.123 --> 00:16:37.923 Because everybody's contributing differently, coming at it 00:16:37.923 --> 00:16:39.563 differently, has different resources. 00:16:40.033 --> 00:16:43.383 So when you talk about the setting of the sustainable development goals 00:16:43.383 --> 00:16:45.743 and it's what the UN has, is it 22? 00:16:46.023 --> 00:16:48.053 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: 20, there are 17 goals. 00:16:48.075 --> 00:16:48.425 Victoria: That's it. 00:16:48.445 --> 00:16:48.735 Okay. 00:16:48.843 --> 00:16:49.093 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: goals. 00:16:49.093 --> 00:16:52.643 Yeah, because 17, actually number 17 is around partnerships, which 00:16:52.705 --> 00:16:53.515 Victoria: Oh, which is 00:16:53.543 --> 00:16:54.033 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: one. 00:16:54.605 --> 00:16:54.825 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:54.913 --> 00:16:56.133 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I had been involved in the Millennium 00:16:56.133 --> 00:16:58.153 Development Goals, actually. 00:16:58.153 --> 00:17:00.553 And then the new development of the Sustainable Development Goals. 00:17:00.553 --> 00:17:00.683 And 00:17:00.745 --> 00:17:01.055 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:01.333 --> 00:17:02.963 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: were added as number 17. 00:17:03.545 --> 00:17:04.695 Victoria: Makes perfect sense, really. 00:17:04.975 --> 00:17:07.715 And it, did that, did those get established around the same 00:17:07.715 --> 00:17:10.465 time as the Paris Agreement, or were they separate from that? 00:17:10.673 --> 00:17:11.113 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Oh, geez, 00:17:11.135 --> 00:17:11.745 Victoria: So the Paris, 00:17:11.883 --> 00:17:12.433 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: me too much 00:17:12.475 --> 00:17:14.935 Victoria: oh my gosh, I'm asking you history questions. 00:17:14.935 --> 00:17:16.615 So we'll, so 00:17:16.763 --> 00:17:17.183 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: dates. 00:17:17.295 --> 00:17:17.635 Victoria: we're gonna, 00:17:17.643 --> 00:17:18.023 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: have, I 00:17:18.075 --> 00:17:18.505 Victoria: we're gonna, 00:17:18.583 --> 00:17:19.703 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: have come with a little cheat sheet 00:17:19.765 --> 00:17:21.035 Victoria: I know, it's okay. 00:17:21.055 --> 00:17:23.425 You can send it to me later and we'll include it. 00:17:23.425 --> 00:17:24.115 How's that? 00:17:24.265 --> 00:17:26.415 The cheat sheet for when all these agreements went in place. 00:17:26.655 --> 00:17:29.835 But I think what's significant, in fact, if I think about dates and we just look 00:17:29.835 --> 00:17:34.625 ahead, certainly the Paris Agreement talks about limiting Temperature increased 00:17:34.635 --> 00:17:36.335 to less than two degrees centigrade. 00:17:36.695 --> 00:17:43.065 It's tied to net I personally view it as being tied to net zero by 2050. 00:17:43.305 --> 00:17:46.905 There's obviously some goals around 2030 and I've never 100 percent clear 00:17:46.905 --> 00:17:49.055 quite handedly on what's our 2030 goal. 00:17:49.355 --> 00:17:51.905 And so there's a lot of different goals out there. 00:17:52.945 --> 00:17:58.715 You talk about this is a public private partnership collaboration opportunity and 00:17:58.715 --> 00:18:04.615 clearly the chemical industry, has to take action on it is, and it is the key enabler 00:18:04.645 --> 00:18:09.465 or a enabler of the energy transition of achieving some of these net zero goals. 00:18:09.655 --> 00:18:13.895 Can you talk about that a little bit more and how you and how ACC sees this? 00:18:14.208 --> 00:18:14.418 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah. 00:18:14.458 --> 00:18:15.018 Absolutely. 00:18:15.018 --> 00:18:18.618 The chemical industry, to me, it's incredible because it's 00:18:18.618 --> 00:18:21.368 really As you said, the energy, the future, the enabler, right? 00:18:21.808 --> 00:18:27.908 The chemical industry contributes, in terms of looking at, if we look 00:18:27.908 --> 00:18:32.858 at renewables even kind of wind and solar and, electric vehicles and 00:18:32.868 --> 00:18:35.538 batteries, like all of that depends on. 00:18:35.753 --> 00:18:36.853 Chemistry, right? 00:18:37.163 --> 00:18:41.343 And so bringing that aspect of contributing to a lower emissions 00:18:41.343 --> 00:18:45.493 future at the same time, also looking at our own emissions, right? 00:18:45.493 --> 00:18:49.073 How do we reduce our own emissions and our processes and so forth? 00:18:49.103 --> 00:18:53.173 And that's where ACC where working our members in terms of 00:18:53.173 --> 00:18:56.043 trying to see how we can do that. 00:18:56.423 --> 00:18:57.823 Realistically, of course, right? 00:18:57.823 --> 00:19:01.353 Because as we look at different technologies, ACC we've been looking 00:19:01.353 --> 00:19:05.003 how to advance carbon capture utilization and storage, right? 00:19:05.323 --> 00:19:06.983 Clean hydrogen, right? 00:19:07.053 --> 00:19:10.953 Other aspects of different innovative technologies that are all different 00:19:10.953 --> 00:19:13.123 stages of innovation and development. 00:19:13.723 --> 00:19:16.763 How do we drive forward on those different abatement technologies 00:19:17.073 --> 00:19:20.963 and the processes looking at, In the future of nuclear, right? 00:19:20.983 --> 00:19:24.873 And electrification, of course, as a possibility in the future. 00:19:24.903 --> 00:19:29.493 But we know from also our collaboration and a lot of discussions we have, for 00:19:29.493 --> 00:19:33.383 example, with agencies like Department of Energy and others, these technologies are 00:19:33.383 --> 00:19:36.323 still in processes of development, right? 00:19:36.323 --> 00:19:40.223 And our members and ACC, we're looking to see how do we do foster those 00:19:40.243 --> 00:19:42.378 collaborations, that information sharing. 00:19:42.378 --> 00:19:46.308 Because it will take time for these technologies to be at the 00:19:46.308 --> 00:19:48.358 point that they're really scalable. 00:19:48.408 --> 00:19:50.328 And so that's where we're really driving forward. 00:19:50.328 --> 00:19:53.588 I would say both from the kind of contributing to that renewable 00:19:53.598 --> 00:19:58.198 future from the products, that the chemical companies are promoting and 00:19:58.348 --> 00:20:03.648 advancing, but also in terms of, Own emissions reductions technologies. 00:20:03.918 --> 00:20:06.938 You know what can be that mix there in terms of driving for 00:20:06.938 --> 00:20:08.598 that future, but it will again. 00:20:08.598 --> 00:20:10.178 It comes back to that patience, right? 00:20:10.218 --> 00:20:13.878 I think everybody wants something overnight and it's that's not the case. 00:20:14.455 --> 00:20:15.775 Victoria: And I think that's right. 00:20:15.775 --> 00:20:19.145 And it's a big set of puzzle pieces that all have to come 00:20:19.145 --> 00:20:21.505 together at the same time. 00:20:21.515 --> 00:20:23.135 And they're not going to come together at the same time. 00:20:23.145 --> 00:20:25.875 Maybe it's really if we think about how we have to build a puzzle. 00:20:25.955 --> 00:20:28.015 Build the outside edges first, right? 00:20:28.035 --> 00:20:30.515 Find all your outer edges and then start filling in. 00:20:30.825 --> 00:20:33.955 And it seems like the climate challenge, finding solutions to the 00:20:33.955 --> 00:20:37.405 climate challenge and sustainability is a bit like building a puzzle. 00:20:38.355 --> 00:20:40.695 Different people have different approaches on it, but at the end of 00:20:40.695 --> 00:20:42.955 the day, it all has to come together. 00:20:43.325 --> 00:20:44.705 Bit by bit, piece by piece. 00:20:45.015 --> 00:20:50.375 And I know one of the challenges when I talk to my clients and other companies is 00:20:51.525 --> 00:20:56.395 sometimes it feels like there's a bit of a misalignment between regulators and the 00:20:56.395 --> 00:20:58.545 regulations that are in place, maybe the. 00:20:58.730 --> 00:21:03.870 Timing and how they're assessing new technologies that are needed, 00:21:04.280 --> 00:21:09.220 critically needed to support the future chemical industry that we 00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:10.680 want, the future world that we want. 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:11.530 When we think about that. 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:16.400 How do you recommend people tackle this challenge. 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:18.570 How can companies influence it? 00:21:18.570 --> 00:21:20.690 How is ACC working to influence that? 00:21:21.193 --> 00:21:22.263 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: That's a great question. 00:21:22.433 --> 00:21:22.963 And you're right. 00:21:23.033 --> 00:21:24.263 It is a puzzle, right? 00:21:24.263 --> 00:21:26.883 With different pieces coming in at different times. 00:21:27.393 --> 00:21:31.023 I think it comes back to the point I made earlier about communication, right? 00:21:31.063 --> 00:21:35.033 And this is one of the things that ACC is working with different agencies to 00:21:35.033 --> 00:21:39.193 see how can we bring industry to the table so that everybody understands the 00:21:39.193 --> 00:21:40.943 role of the chemical industry, right? 00:21:40.943 --> 00:21:44.463 Because I think a lot is, people just not understanding and the 00:21:44.463 --> 00:21:45.763 role of the chemical industry. 00:21:45.763 --> 00:21:49.443 And so it's fostering that first that understanding and that 00:21:49.443 --> 00:21:51.303 awareness of what it will take. 00:21:51.343 --> 00:21:55.203 The chemical industry, as I said, our members are actively working 00:21:55.223 --> 00:21:57.493 to address sustainability issues. 00:21:57.983 --> 00:22:00.293 But again, these things can't be done in silos. 00:22:00.363 --> 00:22:05.423 So how can we, work with different agencies and others to bring industry to 00:22:05.423 --> 00:22:10.133 the table to actually look at as you said, the timing it is an evolution process. 00:22:10.133 --> 00:22:14.683 If we look at different technologies, CCUS or even clean hydrogen, I mentioned and 00:22:14.683 --> 00:22:17.353 so forth even direct air capture, right? 00:22:17.663 --> 00:22:20.263 It's excuse me, it's an early stages, right? 00:22:20.263 --> 00:22:23.303 It's not at the point, even agencies will say it's not scalable. 00:22:23.633 --> 00:22:24.793 To get to scale. 00:22:24.813 --> 00:22:26.573 That's always the big challenge. 00:22:26.613 --> 00:22:30.153 I found that throughout my career, honestly, with different any types 00:22:30.153 --> 00:22:34.623 of innovations or technologies, people get stuck when going to scale. 00:22:34.623 --> 00:22:38.913 And that's where I think the collaboration is really critical because everyone 00:22:38.913 --> 00:22:42.823 then can bring in those different pieces of the jigsaw Puzzle together 00:22:42.853 --> 00:22:44.513 as opposed to at different times. 00:22:44.513 --> 00:22:48.913 And then, as you said, it doesn't seem maybe misaligned or it's 00:22:48.933 --> 00:22:50.583 one depends on the other, right? 00:22:50.823 --> 00:22:54.143 Especially if you're trying to drive innovation and certainly for American 00:22:54.143 --> 00:22:57.653 Chemistry Council, we want to make sure we have a strong chemical manufacturing 00:22:57.653 --> 00:22:59.463 sector in the United States, right? 00:22:59.873 --> 00:23:03.823 And so how do we advance policies and initiatives? 00:23:03.943 --> 00:23:06.433 To make sure that is the case, right? 00:23:06.433 --> 00:23:09.763 That the U S is in the lead when it comes to a strong chemical 00:23:09.763 --> 00:23:14.523 industry that contributes to all the products that everyone wants to 00:23:14.523 --> 00:23:16.503 have in their daily lives, right? 00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:18.370 Victoria: Yeah, I think it's right. 00:23:18.370 --> 00:23:20.420 And I think patience is the key. 00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:23.930 It doesn't feel like we have a lot of time though, so just as we were 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.450 talking to get started here we are basically at the end of the first 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:28.830 quarter and boy, that was fast. 00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:31.260 And soon we're going to be at 2030. 00:23:31.315 --> 00:23:35.015 Which is where a lot of targets are and not too far away is 2050 00:23:35.015 --> 00:23:36.065 in the grand scheme of things. 00:23:36.125 --> 00:23:38.475 It's maybe you have to slow down to go fast, right? 00:23:38.475 --> 00:23:42.055 There's that whole theory, but it feels like we have to keep marching 00:23:42.055 --> 00:23:44.545 along because the clock keeps ticking. 00:23:44.768 --> 00:23:45.258 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: No, it's true. 00:23:45.258 --> 00:23:47.588 We have to we can't sit back and rest. 00:23:47.608 --> 00:23:48.488 That's for sure. 00:23:48.488 --> 00:23:51.418 We have to keep innovation. 00:23:51.418 --> 00:23:55.008 And I know with our ACC members from the smallest members to our largest 00:23:55.008 --> 00:24:00.548 members are dedicated and research and development to really bring the newest 00:24:00.548 --> 00:24:05.368 when it comes to technologies and processes for a sustainable future, right? 00:24:05.698 --> 00:24:09.378 And a healthy environment especially as our members, work in communities, 00:24:09.438 --> 00:24:12.628 in, in engaging communities and so forth in a healthy environment, 00:24:13.058 --> 00:24:15.978 but it is that one of Be realistic. 00:24:15.978 --> 00:24:18.018 Don't look too far to the future. 00:24:18.018 --> 00:24:20.998 And then you miss how you put those pieces together now, right? 00:24:21.298 --> 00:24:26.088 And I think, it's that one of that kind of trying to trace, stay present, right? 00:24:26.328 --> 00:24:29.818 You're learning from what's happened in the past and you're looking to the 00:24:29.818 --> 00:24:33.998 future, but really staying present to see what do we need to do today that will 00:24:33.998 --> 00:24:36.048 have that domino effect for the future. 00:24:36.143 --> 00:24:38.223 And that's not always easy to do, because you're right. 00:24:38.243 --> 00:24:41.183 We're always saying, okay, we need to, we're like hamsters in the wheel rushing. 00:24:41.183 --> 00:24:43.703 We want to get there fast and we will get there. 00:24:43.733 --> 00:24:46.823 And even for me, as I said, we've been talking here and I probably shouldn't 00:24:46.823 --> 00:24:50.033 have admitted how long I've been working on sustainability, it's amazing where we 00:24:50.033 --> 00:24:53.373 are today compared to, 20 some years ago. 00:24:53.433 --> 00:24:53.903 Right. 00:24:54.055 --> 00:24:55.115 Victoria: it's very different. 00:24:55.115 --> 00:25:01.305 I first, I remember when I first really became aware of sustainability as 00:25:01.315 --> 00:25:05.545 sustainability, and I was working at Shell and we had a sustainability, all of a 00:25:05.545 --> 00:25:07.355 sudden we had that sustainability people. 00:25:07.805 --> 00:25:09.910 And I remember saying Oh, I don't understand. 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:11.000 I don't understand. 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:12.370 What is it that you're talking about? 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:13.230 I don't understand. 00:25:13.430 --> 00:25:16.650 Of course, I'm not sure that I fully vocalized it. 00:25:16.650 --> 00:25:19.760 Cause of course in the corporate world, you can't always vocalize when the, 00:25:19.770 --> 00:25:24.980 those under misunderstandings are, but it took quite a while because for 00:25:24.980 --> 00:25:28.470 those people that are working closely with it, it's easier to understand, 00:25:28.970 --> 00:25:35.090 but it's really just gotten into everyday vocabulary for business in 00:25:35.090 --> 00:25:35.460 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: very true 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:36.820 Victoria: The last five years. 00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:37.980 Up until then. 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:38.350 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I agree you. 00:25:38.370 --> 00:25:41.850 Victoria: It was not an everyday conversation, 00:25:41.860 --> 00:25:43.520 strategic decision, et cetera. 00:25:43.910 --> 00:25:45.070 It was understood. 00:25:45.070 --> 00:25:46.990 We understood the environmental aspects. 00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:48.460 We understood safety, 00:25:49.058 --> 00:25:52.968 We didn't necessarily know how to put it all together and I kind of group 00:25:53.208 --> 00:25:54.918 sustainability is putting it all together. 00:25:54.918 --> 00:25:55.548 And that may be. 00:25:55.938 --> 00:25:58.968 Incorrect as well in some ways because it's got a, but it's got a lot of 00:25:58.968 --> 00:26:00.938 tentacles and how it all connects. 00:26:01.368 --> 00:26:06.008 But it really, until the last five years, it has not been an everyday conversation 00:26:06.506 --> 00:26:07.106 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: No, that's true. 00:26:07.106 --> 00:26:10.176 If you look at even the admin growth of chief sustainability 00:26:10.176 --> 00:26:11.806 officer positions, right? 00:26:12.226 --> 00:26:16.686 Or even I was just reading the other day about an ESG controller position, right? 00:26:16.726 --> 00:26:20.356 These positions have been growing only in the last few years. 00:26:20.386 --> 00:26:23.536 If those were not there 20 years ago, I can vouch for that. 00:26:23.818 --> 00:26:27.228 and it will be something different in the next 5, 10, 20 years, right? 00:26:27.238 --> 00:26:28.898 It's going to continue to evolve. 00:26:29.176 --> 00:26:30.196 That's exactly right. 00:26:30.226 --> 00:26:31.526 And you're right with sustainability. 00:26:31.536 --> 00:26:33.066 It is one of those areas. 00:26:33.366 --> 00:26:36.696 And I think this is where, even when we look at the sustainable development 00:26:36.696 --> 00:26:41.016 goals, it's been such an evolution because they yes, they stand on their 00:26:41.016 --> 00:26:44.276 own, but it's the interconnectedness that's really important, right? 00:26:44.286 --> 00:26:45.856 As we touched on water, right? 00:26:45.856 --> 00:26:48.006 Climate and water are related, right? 00:26:48.026 --> 00:26:50.286 And so you could say, okay, I'm only focused on climate 00:26:50.286 --> 00:26:51.476 or I'm only focused on water. 00:26:51.476 --> 00:26:54.696 But at some point, They're connected, right? 00:26:55.178 --> 00:26:55.448 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:26:55.506 --> 00:26:57.926 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: And it's trying to at least acknowledging that, right? 00:26:58.166 --> 00:27:02.346 The And so I think that will, as you said, will also transform the positions 00:27:02.346 --> 00:27:06.956 of the future as these more of kind of the breaking down the silos, I think happens. 00:27:07.068 --> 00:27:08.148 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:27:08.398 --> 00:27:11.968 And so at The Chemical Summit last year, you made a statement along the lines, and 00:27:11.968 --> 00:27:17.108 I'm probably paraphrasing a bit, that most natural disasters are related to water, 00:27:17.288 --> 00:27:19.528 either too much of it or too little of it. 00:27:19.968 --> 00:27:21.438 Can you elaborate on that? 00:27:21.986 --> 00:27:22.466 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Sure. 00:27:22.466 --> 00:27:22.756 Yeah. 00:27:22.756 --> 00:27:22.956 No. 00:27:22.956 --> 00:27:24.716 And this is where climate comes in, right? 00:27:24.716 --> 00:27:26.036 From climate, right? 00:27:26.171 --> 00:27:26.891 Impacts. 00:27:27.721 --> 00:27:31.371 is then I won't go in deep on the hydrological cycle or that because that'll 00:27:31.371 --> 00:27:33.291 probably take a 20 hour show maybe. 00:27:33.291 --> 00:27:37.411 But the impacts from climate then are seen then either scarcity 00:27:37.451 --> 00:27:39.361 to little water in many places. 00:27:39.736 --> 00:27:41.976 Or too much water in terms of floods. 00:27:42.286 --> 00:27:46.466 And so this is, we're seeing more and more of that and it does vary, some 00:27:46.466 --> 00:27:50.516 regions of the globe where you've seen scarcity for periods of time. 00:27:50.776 --> 00:27:53.546 Now we're seeing lots of water, and other areas that have had, 00:27:53.576 --> 00:27:57.196 flooding on an ongoing basis now are experienced scarcity. 00:27:57.196 --> 00:28:00.646 So it doesn't mean that it's always, exactly cookie cutter approach 00:28:00.666 --> 00:28:02.286 either, but it is the climate. 00:28:02.766 --> 00:28:06.256 Impacts are felt in water either too much or too little. 00:28:06.506 --> 00:28:10.046 And this is where I think we're going to be seeing more of that as well. 00:28:10.256 --> 00:28:13.566 But understanding that it does vary over time and regions. 00:28:13.606 --> 00:28:18.276 And it's really trying to be adaptive to that as that becomes more frequent. 00:28:18.578 --> 00:28:18.868 Victoria: Yeah. 00:28:19.078 --> 00:28:22.338 And is there something that we do to influence it other 00:28:22.338 --> 00:28:28.038 than continuing to work on our sustainability and climate measures? 00:28:28.038 --> 00:28:28.558 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I think so. 00:28:28.558 --> 00:28:31.708 One of the things actually I will say that also really attracted 00:28:31.708 --> 00:28:35.968 me to ACC was actually the proactive approach on water issues. 00:28:35.978 --> 00:28:40.918 So ACC we've been working with our members to look at water stewardship and water 00:28:40.918 --> 00:28:43.198 risks because water is a shared resource. 00:28:43.588 --> 00:28:46.498 It's not one of those things where you can look in your own kind of 00:28:46.508 --> 00:28:49.878 For walls and say, okay, this is the only thing I'm focused on. 00:28:50.208 --> 00:28:55.218 And so has been working with our members and we also have a partner, the water 00:28:55.218 --> 00:29:00.148 council we've been working with to support our members and looking at water risks 00:29:00.438 --> 00:29:04.448 proactively, to do an assessment, look at your water risks and then develop. 00:29:04.568 --> 00:29:07.268 Mitigation approaches to address those risks through 00:29:07.268 --> 00:29:08.748 a water body risk assessment. 00:29:09.038 --> 00:29:10.948 So it's a step by step process. 00:29:11.308 --> 00:29:14.528 And what it does, I think, too, especially, is it helps our 00:29:14.528 --> 00:29:18.008 members also start engage with stakeholders in the watershed. 00:29:18.288 --> 00:29:20.318 Because again, water is a shared resource. 00:29:20.338 --> 00:29:25.248 And so it really depends on engaging with those other actors, those stakeholders, 00:29:25.498 --> 00:29:29.778 like water utilities, for example and other organizations in a watershed 00:29:29.798 --> 00:29:33.653 to understand where First, at a very basic level, because again, I know this 00:29:33.653 --> 00:29:37.153 is not a whole show on water, but it really first understanding what are 00:29:37.153 --> 00:29:39.393 those future demands for water, right? 00:29:39.413 --> 00:29:42.683 We've had our members looking, for example, in watersheds where, 00:29:42.883 --> 00:29:44.143 there's a lot of urban growth. 00:29:44.453 --> 00:29:48.733 So you're going to have a lot more demand for water as those urban areas grow. 00:29:48.763 --> 00:29:52.213 And so how do the utilities manage that where there's already existing 00:29:52.213 --> 00:29:56.053 industry or there's also an industry that wants to grow, for example. 00:29:56.333 --> 00:29:57.833 Or you have agriculture, right? 00:29:57.833 --> 00:30:01.513 There and agriculture actually uses, considerable amount of water. 00:30:01.793 --> 00:30:07.663 So how do you manage all of those demands and plan in a way that it, addresses 00:30:07.663 --> 00:30:12.513 that and also creates mitigation plans in cases where they might be, too 00:30:12.513 --> 00:30:14.563 little water or too much water as well. 00:30:14.593 --> 00:30:17.383 So we've been working actively with our members on that. 00:30:17.383 --> 00:30:19.213 We're all actively working on support. 00:30:19.213 --> 00:30:22.183 Our members also had to engage with stakeholders in the watersheds. 00:30:22.563 --> 00:30:26.183 Understanding that, does require time and effort as well in terms 00:30:26.183 --> 00:30:27.603 of engaging with stakeholders. 00:30:27.633 --> 00:30:30.483 But it's really important if we're trying to really look at those water 00:30:30.483 --> 00:30:34.123 risks and some places, our members may not have a high level of risk. 00:30:34.363 --> 00:30:36.993 But it is at least saying, okay, in the future that could 00:30:36.993 --> 00:30:38.783 change and to be ready for that. 00:30:39.230 --> 00:30:40.300 Victoria: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. 00:30:40.510 --> 00:30:44.470 In fact for the long time, really, when I thought about water issues 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.370 for the chemical industry, and first, certainly for my own personal 00:30:47.370 --> 00:30:52.420 experience working in manufacturing, working in big businesses it was 00:30:52.420 --> 00:30:54.730 really around the cleanliness, right? 00:30:54.790 --> 00:30:58.500 The environmental characteristics, making sure that we were You know, 00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.740 if we're taking water out of the river, we're putting very clean 00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:02.230 water back into the river, et cetera. 00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:06.540 So this whole issue of too much, too little thinking about watersheds I know 00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:11.240 it's always probably been there but it's certainly becoming a bigger focus area. 00:31:11.488 --> 00:31:11.888 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah. 00:31:11.928 --> 00:31:14.458 And I should say you, you touched on a really good point 00:31:14.458 --> 00:31:16.118 in terms of drinking water. 00:31:16.118 --> 00:31:20.398 This is also, I overlooked this because it's the foundation of chemistry is 00:31:20.398 --> 00:31:22.368 making sure that we have drinkable water. 00:31:22.378 --> 00:31:25.568 It's like we always take it, it's just for granted, like it's thanks to 00:31:25.568 --> 00:31:27.528 chemistry that we have drinkable water. 00:31:27.798 --> 00:31:31.378 And, but at the same time, as I said, these other water risks are 00:31:31.378 --> 00:31:34.158 maybe growing in the regions is how to engage with stakeholders. 00:31:34.158 --> 00:31:35.308 But thank you for my, yes, absolutely. 00:31:35.458 --> 00:31:36.138 Absolutely. 00:31:36.138 --> 00:31:39.388 The foundation of having drinkable water is thanks to the chemistry. 00:31:39.490 --> 00:31:40.540 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:31:40.810 --> 00:31:41.750 Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:41.790 --> 00:31:43.830 It's a good, it's a good reminder for all of us. 00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.710 And I had the opportunity to go to the Hoover Dam last week. 00:31:46.710 --> 00:31:50.120 So that was the first time ever we were my kids had spring break. 00:31:50.120 --> 00:31:53.440 So we took a vacation out to Vegas and did a mixture of nature 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.000 and neon, as I like to call it. 00:31:55.350 --> 00:31:59.850 And first time visiting the Hoover Dam, which was fascinating because one I hadn't 00:31:59.850 --> 00:32:03.950 appreciated is we've already talked about just the collaboration and the patience 00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:06.800 and the ingenuity to get to that point. 00:32:07.040 --> 00:32:08.720 And frankly, the patience, right? 00:32:08.780 --> 00:32:09.550 The patience, 00:32:09.628 --> 00:32:10.208 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: it comes back to that. 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.620 Victoria: It took a long time to get that. 00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:16.860 And yet it is considered, it's certainly foundational for power 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.900 in in the Western part of the U. 00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:19.230 S. 00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:23.540 And also what I guess I had not fully appreciated and then I thought 00:32:23.540 --> 00:32:25.000 about it, Oh yeah, this makes sense. 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.490 Part of the reason they did this was of course, terrible flooding in the 00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:32.500 Colorado river that persisted over, probably hundreds of years would 00:32:32.510 --> 00:32:34.010 be my guess or thousands of years. 00:32:34.300 --> 00:32:39.390 And so being able to channel that water effectively to create power, 00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:41.620 to control the downstream, et cetera. 00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:45.320 And of course it created Lake Mead, which now is at all time lows. 00:32:45.330 --> 00:32:47.120 So we've gone from, it was. 00:32:47.495 --> 00:32:51.075 the dam and Lake Mead and that entire infrastructure was creating during 00:32:51.075 --> 00:32:54.115 a period of abundance of water. 00:32:54.915 --> 00:32:57.395 And now there's certainly a shortage and we've turned to 00:32:57.395 --> 00:32:58.675 more of a scarcity of water. 00:32:58.725 --> 00:33:02.785 And, there's probably a lot of reasons behind that, both climate, use, et cetera. 00:33:02.855 --> 00:33:04.830 So it's it was really, It was cool. 00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:06.510 I think my kids even thought it was cool. 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.600 Even though people say, don't, don't assume your kids are going to like it. 00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:12.830 We all liked it and the views are good, but the science behind 00:33:12.830 --> 00:33:13.800 it was really cool as well. 00:33:14.368 --> 00:33:14.928 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Oh, good. 00:33:14.978 --> 00:33:15.248 Yeah. 00:33:15.268 --> 00:33:18.128 And again, there, as you said, this was developed, period of 00:33:18.128 --> 00:33:22.358 time where, water availability was different and it's changed now. 00:33:22.358 --> 00:33:25.388 And again, that's again where, that collaboration 00:33:25.408 --> 00:33:27.118 remains still central, right? 00:33:27.128 --> 00:33:31.268 To address as that is the shifting climate, what that means in terms of 00:33:31.268 --> 00:33:33.458 the region and reduced water levels. 00:33:33.508 --> 00:33:36.658 And absolutely that collaboration is still critical going forward. 00:33:38.030 --> 00:33:41.290 . Victoria: So Karin, we're in women's history month as we're recording this. 00:33:41.300 --> 00:33:44.620 So I feel like I want to add this, ask this question of you as a woman 00:33:44.830 --> 00:33:51.040 who has really been successful in an international career At a time where 00:33:51.290 --> 00:33:55.010 perhaps women weren't as successful as certainly in the early days in 00:33:55.020 --> 00:33:59.400 international roles and you've worked with a lot of companies and individuals 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.460 and governments around the globe. 00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:03.480 What's been significant? 00:34:03.490 --> 00:34:05.380 What's the secret of success? 00:34:05.380 --> 00:34:06.630 What surprised you? 00:34:07.010 --> 00:34:09.710 What advice would you have maybe in terms of that? 00:34:10.278 --> 00:34:11.338 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: What a good question. 00:34:11.388 --> 00:34:16.258 Especially in this month, I, again again, I think I keep coming back 00:34:16.258 --> 00:34:20.178 to that patience honestly I remember actually, I was in the world summit 00:34:20.178 --> 00:34:24.598 on sustainable development in 2002 and I was on all these panels and 00:34:24.598 --> 00:34:26.848 it was all panels of men and me. 00:34:27.268 --> 00:34:29.968 There was one panel, it was 10 of us and nine men and me. 00:34:30.328 --> 00:34:32.078 Victoria: They were probably older than you, right? 00:34:32.078 --> 00:34:34.598 So you were young and a young female 00:34:34.771 --> 00:34:35.181 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Much, 00:34:35.448 --> 00:34:38.158 Victoria: panels with esteemed colleagues and peers. 00:34:38.288 --> 00:34:38.568 Yeah. 00:34:38.591 --> 00:34:40.971 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: were all, incredible professionals 00:34:40.981 --> 00:34:43.041 in their careers, engineers. 00:34:43.081 --> 00:34:43.911 Incredible. 00:34:43.941 --> 00:34:47.011 And, but yes, I was the lone woman there. 00:34:47.081 --> 00:34:51.661 And I would say for me was again, having that patience, 00:34:51.661 --> 00:34:53.321 but also perseverance, right. 00:34:53.361 --> 00:34:58.241 of, you know, I, Feeling that you know what you know, right? 00:34:58.291 --> 00:34:59.551 And there's a lot that I don't know. 00:34:59.551 --> 00:35:00.541 Obviously dates. 00:35:00.881 --> 00:35:02.211 I'm terrible with dates. 00:35:02.698 --> 00:35:03.558 Victoria: Keep that in mind. 00:35:03.941 --> 00:35:06.051 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: But there's a big understanding what you know 00:35:06.051 --> 00:35:09.151 and what you don't know and then having the passion for it, right? 00:35:09.191 --> 00:35:12.041 That's what I saw certainly in the World Summit on Sustainable 00:35:12.041 --> 00:35:14.041 Development through that whole process. 00:35:14.431 --> 00:35:16.061 Actually, it was a colleague of mine. 00:35:16.061 --> 00:35:19.571 We brought water because water was missing in the agenda and 00:35:19.571 --> 00:35:20.581 we had a passion about water. 00:35:20.686 --> 00:35:22.766 Addressing water issues, even though I was working more 00:35:22.766 --> 00:35:24.466 broadly on environmental issues. 00:35:24.816 --> 00:35:26.776 And we were committed saying, you know what? 00:35:26.866 --> 00:35:28.726 Water needs to be here in the agenda. 00:35:28.756 --> 00:35:30.326 We're going to fight for it. 00:35:30.636 --> 00:35:34.946 And I remember the first time in that process, we got two paragraphs on water. 00:35:35.246 --> 00:35:37.256 But there had been zero before, right? 00:35:37.256 --> 00:35:38.996 So even that was a success. 00:35:39.036 --> 00:35:43.016 So I would say it is really combination of that patience and passion. 00:35:43.016 --> 00:35:44.536 I would say it's the peas, right? 00:35:44.736 --> 00:35:45.206 Patience. 00:35:46.406 --> 00:35:48.086 Perseverance and passion, 00:35:49.928 --> 00:35:52.718 Victoria: There's a lot of life lessons there that we can all remember, right? 00:35:52.758 --> 00:35:53.988 That's probably a good model. 00:35:53.988 --> 00:35:55.778 Patience, perseverance, and passion. 00:35:55.828 --> 00:35:58.138 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: And I would say the other is, just to know 00:35:58.138 --> 00:36:00.038 that it is always changing, right? 00:36:00.098 --> 00:36:01.548 The world is changing, right? 00:36:01.588 --> 00:36:06.068 In terms of now you see the number of women in different roles is incredible. 00:36:06.398 --> 00:36:10.848 In, as chief sustainability officers or, even as CEOs and so 00:36:10.848 --> 00:36:12.558 forth it's definitely evolving. 00:36:12.938 --> 00:36:15.748 And so it is, it's definitely evolving, but it is, you know, 00:36:16.288 --> 00:36:17.388 those would be my three P's I 00:36:17.520 --> 00:36:19.300 Victoria: yeah, I'm going to, I think that's right. 00:36:19.300 --> 00:36:20.880 And I would reflect on the same. 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.410 Similarly for me, I like the perseverance piece, right? 00:36:23.430 --> 00:36:28.570 So I many times I was the only woman presenting in a room in a senior 00:36:28.570 --> 00:36:30.330 leadership meeting in what have you. 00:36:30.380 --> 00:36:31.310 And I was really fortunate. 00:36:31.310 --> 00:36:34.300 I spent a big part of my career at Shell and there was, Shell's done a great job. 00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:37.620 job of advocating, developing and promoting women. 00:36:37.620 --> 00:36:43.290 So I'd never felt always truly like the only, but you'd be the only in the moment. 00:36:43.538 --> 00:36:46.588 And I would recognize it, but I'd be like, okay, here we go. 00:36:46.688 --> 00:36:47.598 It doesn't stop you. 00:36:47.598 --> 00:36:48.928 It's that perseverance piece. 00:36:49.208 --> 00:36:49.528 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah, 00:36:49.560 --> 00:36:53.230 Victoria: think there's always it's, it's hard to get certainly when 00:36:53.230 --> 00:36:57.080 we think about in technical roles, like as engineers and scientists 00:36:57.080 --> 00:37:01.460 and STEM roles, if you're graduating 25 percent women in those fields. 00:37:01.870 --> 00:37:05.950 You're never going to get 50 percent women in engineering if the pool 00:37:05.950 --> 00:37:08.060 that you're pulling from is 25%. 00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:12.820 So there's this aspect of it is changing, but it's only can change to the extent 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:15.230 that the feeder pool changes as well. 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.855 And so I think we have to continue to develop that and promote and encourage it. 00:37:21.288 --> 00:37:21.878 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Absolutely. 00:37:21.878 --> 00:37:22.048 Yeah. 00:37:22.048 --> 00:37:26.108 No, and I, that's one of the things too, also ACC, if many may not realize, we 00:37:26.108 --> 00:37:31.838 have the Future STEM Scholars Initiative, FOSSI, which is providing support for 00:37:31.838 --> 00:37:36.158 students at historically black colleges and universities to study for four years 00:37:36.198 --> 00:37:40.088 with the idea that, they would come out as chemical engineers, but also it's 00:37:40.108 --> 00:37:44.768 not just the support for the studies, but also mentorship and so forth. 00:37:44.798 --> 00:37:48.778 And that, I think that's what I'm thrilled to see ACC doing because, it's 00:37:48.778 --> 00:37:51.618 one of those things when we look at these issues, it's not just a matter 00:37:51.618 --> 00:37:53.658 of providing financial resources. 00:37:53.678 --> 00:37:55.208 It is that mentorship, right? 00:37:55.208 --> 00:37:57.628 If I look back, even in my own career, there are people that I 00:37:57.628 --> 00:38:01.638 would often go back to, especially as, a woman in the field of Oh, I 00:38:01.648 --> 00:38:04.528 just need a little bit of support here of am I doing the right thing? 00:38:04.528 --> 00:38:07.608 Am I, you come to crossroads in your life, like I knew I had a 00:38:07.608 --> 00:38:10.228 few in my life where I was like, should I go that way or that way? 00:38:10.228 --> 00:38:14.753 And I'd go back for some, you know, just talk to some more senior people who 00:38:14.753 --> 00:38:19.273 I respected and who would give me the time of day to talk to and knowing that 00:38:19.273 --> 00:38:21.003 I was still very early in my career. 00:38:21.043 --> 00:38:24.033 And this is with FOSSI is including that mentorship, I think, is 00:38:24.033 --> 00:38:27.803 incredible and fabulous because that's just as important as the 00:38:27.813 --> 00:38:30.013 resources to be able to do the studies 00:38:30.555 --> 00:38:31.275 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:38:31.315 --> 00:38:33.185 I think we sometimes take it for granted. 00:38:33.225 --> 00:38:36.485 Certainly, my kids, your kids, if you have any, if we have the advantage 00:38:36.485 --> 00:38:41.095 of having parents that can coach and mentor and encourage, and yet many 00:38:41.095 --> 00:38:45.895 people don't, I certainly, I look back, my parents, they did encourage, 00:38:45.905 --> 00:38:48.915 they were great encouragers, but they didn't have direct experience 00:38:48.915 --> 00:38:50.885 and couldn't mentor in the same way. 00:38:51.195 --> 00:38:56.245 And so having third party mentors whether via FOSSI in a program like that, whether 00:38:56.245 --> 00:39:03.025 at your company is so critical to have examples that you can look at people that 00:39:03.025 --> 00:39:08.275 can support you, that can engage with you and help you talk through those options, 00:39:08.285 --> 00:39:12.495 see what the paths may be, provide that mentorship is really important. 00:39:12.568 --> 00:39:13.158 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: is really important. 00:39:13.158 --> 00:39:15.988 Yeah, it's funny you say that because my parents, we were immigrants, 00:39:15.988 --> 00:39:18.288 so neither of my parents spoke English when we came to the U. 00:39:18.288 --> 00:39:22.118 S., so wouldn't say they were really, I thank them for everything 00:39:22.118 --> 00:39:25.018 they did, but, in terms of kind of that pure mentorship, no. 00:39:25.888 --> 00:39:28.238 but it's funny, I do have one child and maybe, I don't 00:39:28.238 --> 00:39:30.268 know, I maybe over mentored. 00:39:30.268 --> 00:39:32.138 Maybe that's the problem now. 00:39:32.830 --> 00:39:36.410 Victoria: That is a challenge and, maybe I'll mentor your kid your child and you 00:39:36.410 --> 00:39:39.770 can mentor mine because they don't always like to listen to mom and dad anyway. 00:39:40.203 --> 00:39:41.043 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Exactly. 00:39:41.103 --> 00:39:41.873 Exactly. 00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:43.410 Victoria: Awesome. 00:39:43.740 --> 00:39:46.490 So Karin, what's on the horizon for the rest of 24? 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:48.300 We're here at the end of the first quarter. 00:39:48.350 --> 00:39:53.270 What should we be looking forward to as it relates to ACC and sustainability as 00:39:53.270 --> 00:39:55.140 we look ahead for the rest of the year? 00:39:55.688 --> 00:39:58.323 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I would say, in the areas that I described early 00:39:58.323 --> 00:40:02.313 on first, we're keep advancing those because again, it is keep putting that 00:40:02.313 --> 00:40:04.323 foot forward, especially on climate. 00:40:04.723 --> 00:40:07.843 Driving the innovations and the advancements and the different 00:40:07.843 --> 00:40:13.038 technologies I think is really important and something that we're focusing on ACC. 00:40:13.198 --> 00:40:14.778 How can we drive? 00:40:14.778 --> 00:40:17.178 As I mentioned, a strong U. 00:40:17.178 --> 00:40:17.468 S. 00:40:17.498 --> 00:40:21.148 Chemical manufacturing sector is central. 00:40:21.198 --> 00:40:27.688 And so that really for us in 2024 and beyond and making sure that our members. 00:40:28.108 --> 00:40:31.778 At all the different whatever size they may be small, medium or large 00:40:32.068 --> 00:40:37.558 are able to take their strengths and contribute in a way for that strong U. 00:40:37.558 --> 00:40:37.668 S. 00:40:37.698 --> 00:40:41.578 chemical manufacturing sector where in a rapidly sustainability 00:40:41.578 --> 00:40:44.708 evolving area as well as these areas that are rapidly evolving. 00:40:44.708 --> 00:40:48.038 So it's really making sure that we're here to serve our members to 00:40:48.048 --> 00:40:54.168 be as best informed as well prepared for the future that they can be. 00:40:55.245 --> 00:40:55.635 Victoria: Awesome. 00:40:55.685 --> 00:40:56.355 Thank you, Karin. 00:40:56.375 --> 00:40:58.165 This has been a great conversation. 00:40:58.195 --> 00:40:59.105 I've really enjoyed it. 00:40:59.565 --> 00:41:01.265 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:41:01.748 --> 00:41:03.528 karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Thank you for having me. 00:41:03.895 --> 00:41:04.555 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:41:04.555 --> 00:41:05.955 And thank you everyone for listening. 00:41:05.955 --> 00:41:09.575 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we'll talk to you again soon. 00:41:13.165 --> 00:41:14.945 voiceover: We've come to the end of today's podcast. 00:41:15.345 --> 00:41:17.895 We hope you enjoyed your time with us and want to learn more. 00:41:18.315 --> 00:41:20.595 Simply visit thechemicalshow. 00:41:20.595 --> 00:41:23.345 com for additional information and helpful resources. 00:41:23.985 --> 00:41:27.975 Join us again next time here on The Chemical Show with Victoria Meyer.