1 00:00:00,990 --> 00:00:03,079 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:04,710 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,330 --> 00:00:08,830 In this episode, you will hear part two of my conversation with Jorge 4 00:00:08,830 --> 00:00:13,280 Colón, Associate Professor of Practice at the Center of Veterinary Business 5 00:00:13,459 --> 00:00:17,700 and Entrepreneurship at the College of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University. 6 00:00:18,825 --> 00:00:22,584 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 7 00:00:22,665 --> 00:00:23,775 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 8 00:00:24,845 --> 00:00:28,115 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 9 00:00:28,125 --> 00:00:29,465 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 10 00:00:30,675 --> 00:00:34,805 So you, you discovered it through a showcase, you know, opportunity. 11 00:00:34,805 --> 00:00:38,915 And for those who don't know what that means, I, I, I'm going to 12 00:00:38,915 --> 00:00:40,594 try to provide some context here. 13 00:00:40,964 --> 00:00:45,575 A lot of schools do this where, you know, some pockets of a 14 00:00:45,575 --> 00:00:48,034 university is using portfolios. 15 00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:53,180 And portfolios, unlike an exam or a paper, you know, that you write and 16 00:00:53,180 --> 00:00:55,310 then it sort of gets buried somewhere. 17 00:00:55,770 --> 00:00:59,930 Um, a lot of people have these incredible artifacts, which, you know, results 18 00:00:59,930 --> 00:01:03,379 in these, you know, beautiful websites sometimes of their work and achievements. 19 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:09,240 And, and so on, the reflections and so on in a lot of places will, because this 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,290 work is so beautiful, they just, you know, create events where it becomes 21 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:17,469 a showcase event where students get to show it, talk about it, and then other 22 00:01:17,469 --> 00:01:19,050 people attend and get to learn about it. 23 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:21,269 Is that, is that the similar to what you did? 24 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:25,380 So no, that's actually similar to how I learned about the portfolio. 25 00:01:25,580 --> 00:01:29,199 When I was down at, you mentioned, uh, our mutual friend, Pat, he 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,089 worked for CTI here at the college. 27 00:01:31,445 --> 00:01:35,705 And they were showcasing, and the director of the plant sciences department, 28 00:01:35,715 --> 00:01:39,355 if I remember correctly, from the undergraduate school of agricultural 29 00:01:39,995 --> 00:01:44,625 and life sciences, was presenting how in plant sciences they were utilizing 30 00:01:44,635 --> 00:01:50,710 the portfolio to showcase the work that the Plant Sciences students were doing 31 00:01:50,779 --> 00:01:55,079 in their externships and classroom curricular and extracurricular work 32 00:01:55,079 --> 00:01:58,779 so they could showcase this incredible work that they were doing, which had 33 00:01:58,779 --> 00:02:01,469 a hugely visual component as well. 34 00:02:01,809 --> 00:02:05,350 And in fact, Years later, it turns out my daughter is 35 00:02:05,350 --> 00:02:07,250 actually a undergraduate student. 36 00:02:07,260 --> 00:02:11,440 She's a fourth year clinical, a fourth year student here at Cornell 37 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,240 in Plant Sciences using the portfolio. 38 00:02:14,490 --> 00:02:17,909 In fact, she's doing a summer Externship and she's taking pictures of things 39 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:21,830 that she's working at a public garden so she can showcase it in her portfolio. 40 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:26,899 So this is how I learned about the portfolio, but the usage 41 00:02:26,899 --> 00:02:30,179 that I have for the portfolio is completely different from this. 42 00:02:30,844 --> 00:02:35,845 When I, when I heard this professor talk about the portfolio, in my mind, 43 00:02:36,215 --> 00:02:40,604 I said, this will be an incredible tool for utilization in the veterinary 44 00:02:40,604 --> 00:02:45,005 space in a way that we don't have something that will meet some of 45 00:02:45,005 --> 00:02:46,644 the needs that I think that we have. 46 00:02:46,695 --> 00:02:49,844 And so let me extremely simplify something. 47 00:02:50,734 --> 00:02:55,125 Contrary to what I think, and maybe my, my preconceived notions are completely 48 00:02:55,125 --> 00:03:00,364 incorrect, but in my career, other than when I applied for my job here at Cornell. 49 00:03:00,385 --> 00:03:05,215 When I'm 25 years after graduating from graduate school, that was 50 00:03:05,215 --> 00:03:08,864 the first time in my life I had ever really needed a resume. 51 00:03:08,915 --> 00:03:11,815 I had one, but I never needed to write one. 52 00:03:12,235 --> 00:03:17,405 Because in the veterinary space, there's a lot of people who get hired without 53 00:03:17,415 --> 00:03:19,355 ever looking at somebody's resume. 54 00:03:19,365 --> 00:03:22,534 If you come to practice at my practice and visit as a student at 55 00:03:22,655 --> 00:03:25,304 my practice, and I understand that you understand what you're talking 56 00:03:25,304 --> 00:03:29,075 about, you're coachable, everything else, then you might be a great asset. 57 00:03:29,075 --> 00:03:32,475 You went to Cornell Veterinary School, you obviously have the knowledge. 58 00:03:32,690 --> 00:03:36,270 I just need to make sure that you can do the work and I really couldn't care 59 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:38,550 less what your resume says, right? 60 00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:43,269 So, so hiring in the veterinary space and resumes have not always 61 00:03:43,299 --> 00:03:45,999 gone hand in hand, which in the rest of the world, in the banking world, 62 00:03:45,999 --> 00:03:49,089 in the finance, it, you know, your resume is a huge component, right? 63 00:03:49,470 --> 00:03:56,735 Indeed, as a, as a place, for example, online would probably Fail within 64 00:03:56,735 --> 00:03:59,245 the veterinary space because that's not the way that people get hired. 65 00:03:59,275 --> 00:04:00,925 As an example, just, it could be anything. 66 00:04:02,005 --> 00:04:05,655 There's still a lot of people, LinkedIn, for example, there's a lot of people in 67 00:04:05,665 --> 00:04:09,075 the veterinary space who just don't use it because they have never had a need for it. 68 00:04:09,834 --> 00:04:13,344 That's changing, but I don't want, I don't need to be naming names of companies. 69 00:04:13,344 --> 00:04:20,425 But employers, when they were looking at potential employees, were then 70 00:04:20,435 --> 00:04:24,925 having to Google this person and what they're finding through Google or 71 00:04:24,925 --> 00:04:26,885 through whatever search engine is. 72 00:04:27,385 --> 00:04:31,304 Stuff that maybe those people didn't want to find out, like the picture 73 00:04:31,304 --> 00:04:34,864 that you were doing, you know, doing a kickstand at the last party you were 74 00:04:34,864 --> 00:04:38,415 at when you got together with your high school classmates, you know, stuff 75 00:04:38,415 --> 00:04:42,315 that you don't want people to find out, this is what people will find out. 76 00:04:42,804 --> 00:04:45,674 By Googling or searching for your name, as an example. 77 00:04:46,104 --> 00:04:49,145 So I don't want people to be getting hired that way either. 78 00:04:49,895 --> 00:04:58,304 Um, and so I, I thought of how does a potential electronic portfolio showcase 79 00:04:59,104 --> 00:05:04,364 that which makes this student different than the other student who also took 80 00:05:04,364 --> 00:05:10,095 the same excellent curricular education at Cornell, but whose life experiences 81 00:05:10,115 --> 00:05:12,115 have dictated a different moral compass. 82 00:05:12,805 --> 00:05:15,965 The who, the what, of what drives you. 83 00:05:17,635 --> 00:05:22,555 How do I showcase this in a way that a resume can't do it in simple words? 84 00:05:22,905 --> 00:05:27,275 And that many times a job interview, which is either in person or through 85 00:05:27,275 --> 00:05:32,164 Zoom now or through social media now, that can't get done in 15 minutes 86 00:05:32,195 --> 00:05:35,455 because there's a lot of things about reflecting on somebody's work, et 87 00:05:35,455 --> 00:05:37,914 cetera, that those things that cannot do. 88 00:05:38,515 --> 00:05:40,855 And so that's what we turn our portfolio to be. 89 00:05:41,284 --> 00:05:46,344 It's a tool for differentiation that is not, even though it's a social 90 00:05:46,344 --> 00:05:50,635 media platform because it's online, it is not your social media platform. 91 00:05:51,034 --> 00:05:53,715 The pictures are not there to present pictures of you. 92 00:05:54,044 --> 00:05:58,184 The pictures are there to support that reflection of the work that you've done, 93 00:05:58,184 --> 00:06:02,295 the reflection of the learnings that you have done through experiences, or 94 00:06:02,335 --> 00:06:08,125 to showcase You know, I had a student who had a picture with Jane Goodall 95 00:06:08,205 --> 00:06:10,825 with a chimpanzee in Africa, right? 96 00:06:10,865 --> 00:06:11,755 That's amazing, yeah. 97 00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:12,955 Picture, right? 98 00:06:13,564 --> 00:06:16,665 And the reflection about what the experience meant and what she 99 00:06:16,665 --> 00:06:20,195 wanted to become as a veterinarian was supported by that picture. 100 00:06:20,214 --> 00:06:22,505 It wasn't just the picture, right? 101 00:06:23,315 --> 00:06:30,465 I had a student who was in Israel and thankfully this person is healthy and 102 00:06:30,725 --> 00:06:34,905 well physically, but There were bones falling on the street when he was there. 103 00:06:35,455 --> 00:06:39,305 And so when I told him, we were talking about the portfolio, like I did not 104 00:06:39,305 --> 00:06:45,035 want to know about the story of what happened, what I, I said, let's get 105 00:06:45,035 --> 00:06:46,524 together and let's go have a drink. 106 00:06:46,525 --> 00:06:48,904 And you tell me the story because this is incredible, right? 107 00:06:48,904 --> 00:06:52,204 But what I want to read in your portfolio is how did this change you? 108 00:06:52,915 --> 00:06:56,065 Did your view of humanity as a future veterinarian change? 109 00:06:56,065 --> 00:06:57,665 What is your moral compass now? 110 00:06:57,665 --> 00:06:58,875 What's important for you? 111 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:02,229 What you want to become, did that change because of your experience? 112 00:07:02,450 --> 00:07:08,429 And that reflection on veterinary related curricular and extracurricular experiences 113 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:13,259 is what makes our portfolio, which I believe is a completely different use 114 00:07:13,410 --> 00:07:19,570 of what the portfolio that I got taught was the portfolio was being used for. 115 00:07:20,030 --> 00:07:21,800 So it's still the same tool. 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,540 We're just using it for a completely different purpose. 117 00:07:24,930 --> 00:07:28,590 And that by itself has turned into a incredible. 118 00:07:29,465 --> 00:07:36,065 Joke finding tool for students, um, the end result of our portfolio, because the 119 00:07:36,065 --> 00:07:41,925 second thing that I've utilized is I have alumni and friends of the college who 120 00:07:41,925 --> 00:07:48,025 serve as portfolio reviewers providing feedback to students as part of a course 121 00:07:48,025 --> 00:07:50,215 that I now teach called ePortfolio. 122 00:07:50,715 --> 00:07:53,945 And the purpose of the course is how do you build your ePortfolio and 123 00:07:53,955 --> 00:07:57,859 we just go through an asynchronous course where they get to do this. 124 00:07:58,420 --> 00:08:03,450 And the end result of this portfolio feedback system by alumni of the 125 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:08,864 college, etc, is that People finding jobs without looking for them is 126 00:08:08,864 --> 00:08:11,104 becoming a very common occurrence. 127 00:08:11,575 --> 00:08:13,815 Networking is insane. 128 00:08:14,824 --> 00:08:19,395 My relationship with our Office of Alumni Affairs and Development, I'm like their 129 00:08:19,395 --> 00:08:23,314 favorite son here at the college because the engagement that I'm getting from 130 00:08:23,314 --> 00:08:26,245 alumni with the college is incredible. 131 00:08:27,195 --> 00:08:31,135 Alumni love me because when I reach for them, I'm just asking for their 132 00:08:31,165 --> 00:08:34,195 time, which is one of the most valuable things that they can give me, right? 133 00:08:34,245 --> 00:08:35,544 I just need your time. 134 00:08:35,554 --> 00:08:38,595 It was going to take you between 45 minutes and an hour and a 135 00:08:38,595 --> 00:08:41,005 half in an asynchronous fashion. 136 00:08:41,015 --> 00:08:44,544 Maybe you have a glass of wine or a beer or water in your hand, and you 137 00:08:44,544 --> 00:08:47,585 just read the student's portfolio and you provide some simple feedback. 138 00:08:47,905 --> 00:08:49,395 That's all I'm asking for. 139 00:08:49,395 --> 00:08:50,685 And they get really engaged. 140 00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:53,295 Alumni Affairs costs them because they wanted money. 141 00:08:53,814 --> 00:08:57,495 So what's happening now is that the alumni are calling Alumni Affairs 142 00:08:57,585 --> 00:09:00,794 after they engaged with me because they feel so engaged with the 143 00:09:00,794 --> 00:09:02,205 college that they want to give money. 144 00:09:02,584 --> 00:09:06,564 So Alumni Affairs lost me because I'm, I'm, I'm stimulating 145 00:09:06,564 --> 00:09:07,734 the communication with them. 146 00:09:07,934 --> 00:09:12,035 But the process is that, or the end result is that the students are having 147 00:09:12,035 --> 00:09:16,714 an incredible networking opportunity, incredible ability to gain mentorship. 148 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:21,490 To, to find jobs in a way that they couldn't do before, and just to showcase 149 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:26,089 who and what of who they are, what drives them, what's their personal 150 00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:30,229 philosophy, what is important to them, and why do they want to be the 151 00:09:30,229 --> 00:09:31,750 veterinarian that they want to become. 152 00:09:33,130 --> 00:09:37,530 I love this, and I, I wanted to dive into one part that you talked 153 00:09:37,539 --> 00:09:39,240 about that I just really love. 154 00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:44,095 And that I think a lot of people really, if you don't listen carefully, 155 00:09:44,095 --> 00:09:48,115 you miss or you might, you know, it comes in, you know, I want to make sure 156 00:09:48,115 --> 00:09:50,354 this is really obvious to everyone. 157 00:09:51,625 --> 00:09:56,865 I know so many people when they talk about portfolio, especially as a showcase 158 00:09:56,905 --> 00:10:02,035 tool, as a job, as a career, you know, tool, they try to show their skills, 159 00:10:02,695 --> 00:10:06,934 you know, they try to say, I have the skills, and therefore you should hire me. 160 00:10:07,555 --> 00:10:11,245 Sometimes it's I have the skills plus I have the certificate, therefore you should 161 00:10:11,245 --> 00:10:14,790 hire me, or I have the qualification and the skills, therefore you should hire me. 162 00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:21,095 But what you said is, yeah, sure, I mean, you come to Cornell, 163 00:10:21,635 --> 00:10:23,164 you graduate with a certificate. 164 00:10:23,420 --> 00:10:26,380 We sort of expect you to have some pretty good skills. 165 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:28,790 You can show it. 166 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,480 That's great. 167 00:10:29,810 --> 00:10:34,600 But we want to know everything else about who you are. 168 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:35,860 All right. 169 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,849 We wanted to know, did you make a decision to do this because 170 00:10:40,850 --> 00:10:48,050 you mean you met Jane Goodall and was impacted in a specific way? 171 00:10:48,735 --> 00:10:54,435 Because that might be the differentiator that makes it 172 00:10:54,435 --> 00:10:58,855 different, makes you different, for this job than every other applicant. 173 00:10:59,795 --> 00:11:01,704 And it's not always, to me, even about that. 174 00:11:02,260 --> 00:11:04,210 It's not about them selecting you. 175 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:08,210 It's also about you selecting the right, right opportunity, right? 176 00:11:08,319 --> 00:11:13,629 So if you are that person that cares about certain aspects of, you know, of, of, of 177 00:11:13,630 --> 00:11:18,809 this field, maybe it's a great firm or a great company that you could be working 178 00:11:18,810 --> 00:11:22,840 at, except that, you know, they have a completely different, you know, focus. 179 00:11:23,620 --> 00:11:25,469 Then maybe that's not the job for you anyway. 180 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:32,210 So to me, there is a sort of like, like you said, this networking comes in with, 181 00:11:32,749 --> 00:11:37,360 you know, it's almost like, yeah, we know if you're getting this certificate, 182 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,380 getting this degree, getting this qualification, that you should have, you 183 00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:45,800 know, all of these basic things, like you said very early on, but can we coach you? 184 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:47,079 Are we going to get along? 185 00:11:47,089 --> 00:11:48,609 Is this going to be a cultural fit? 186 00:11:48,969 --> 00:11:52,839 Do we have the same kind of North star in how we view the world? 187 00:11:53,140 --> 00:11:53,319 Yep. 188 00:11:53,349 --> 00:11:53,709 Right? 189 00:11:54,189 --> 00:11:56,350 And the portfolio gives you that. 190 00:11:56,740 --> 00:12:00,910 And that's the stuff that, by the way, another one of those things that 191 00:12:01,150 --> 00:12:06,070 I think that when people are really misunderstanding higher education, 192 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:07,780 that's where they're misunderstanding it. 193 00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:11,459 That's the stuff that it comes with, you know? 194 00:12:11,855 --> 00:12:13,495 Otherwise, guess what? 195 00:12:13,695 --> 00:12:16,805 We could have rewind back many more decades ago. 196 00:12:17,195 --> 00:12:19,165 The library has all the books already. 197 00:12:19,405 --> 00:12:20,815 Why don't we just go there and read? 198 00:12:21,915 --> 00:12:23,914 Read for a few years, you've read everything. 199 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:28,730 And, and, and, and why would you even need to go to, you know, go get 200 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:30,950 an education, so to speak, right? 201 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,459 Because it's not about just getting that skill by being able to, to, to, to, to 202 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:39,920 perform it or to, to regurgitate it. 203 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,390 It's, it's all of the rest of the building of that human, right? 204 00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:44,800 Yeah. 205 00:12:45,010 --> 00:12:45,200 Yeah. 206 00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:48,650 And in our portfolio, to, to support what you're saying, in our portfolio, 207 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,050 That skill, mentioning that skill is not a part of your portfolio. 208 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,680 Students get feedback as they construct their portfolio, and that will be 209 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,760 one of the first feedbacks that they get, that this is not what we want. 210 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:03,560 That's what your resume is for. 211 00:13:03,570 --> 00:13:05,369 This is not to replace a resume. 212 00:13:05,369 --> 00:13:06,850 This is not to replace an interview. 213 00:13:07,150 --> 00:13:10,519 This is a supporting document in the self marketing process. 214 00:13:10,909 --> 00:13:15,509 What the portfolio needs to do, at least in our course, in our class, the way we 215 00:13:15,510 --> 00:13:21,035 use it, is why did you pursue that skill? 216 00:13:21,095 --> 00:13:22,535 Like what drove you to it? 217 00:13:22,535 --> 00:13:24,765 But more importantly, what are you going to do with it? 218 00:13:25,175 --> 00:13:27,234 What is your intent on doing with it? 219 00:13:27,255 --> 00:13:32,484 I don't care that you were a boarded surgeon, which the students obviously 220 00:13:32,485 --> 00:13:36,375 wouldn't be, but what are you planning on doing with it, right? 221 00:13:36,394 --> 00:13:41,355 Don't tell me that You are part, you're the president of 222 00:13:41,355 --> 00:13:44,015 the DEI chapter of the college. 223 00:13:44,694 --> 00:13:48,704 What are you going to do as a veterinarian with that experience? 224 00:13:48,755 --> 00:13:50,335 How are you going to change? 225 00:13:50,364 --> 00:13:55,405 How are you going to go and influence young high school or elementary school 226 00:13:55,405 --> 00:13:59,555 kids who A, don't know that veterinary medicine could be in their future and 227 00:13:59,565 --> 00:14:03,375 B, that they could make a difference in the DEI world as a veterinarian? 228 00:14:03,795 --> 00:14:08,475 That is what the portfolio shows, not that you have DEI skills, because your 229 00:14:08,475 --> 00:14:10,445 DEI skills are defined in your resume. 230 00:14:10,875 --> 00:14:14,124 Your DEI skills will be defined based on the job posting that you're 231 00:14:14,125 --> 00:14:18,454 answering and the cover letter as you, as you showcase the employer 232 00:14:18,454 --> 00:14:20,194 why you're the best fit for that job. 233 00:14:20,204 --> 00:14:25,205 That's where you show the skill, but why, who, what, how, and the 234 00:14:25,215 --> 00:14:27,285 moral compass created by that skill. 235 00:14:27,295 --> 00:14:28,795 That's what we have in the portfolio. 236 00:14:29,215 --> 00:14:31,315 And that's what creates that differentiation. 237 00:14:31,735 --> 00:14:35,765 And Differentiation is the name of the game of our portfolio. 238 00:14:35,925 --> 00:14:41,075 If the course was not called ePortfolio, the course will be named Differentiation. 239 00:14:42,245 --> 00:14:46,974 And I, you know, something that I wanted to also say is that there are 240 00:14:48,104 --> 00:14:51,744 people that I talk to that really believe in reflection and, you know, 241 00:14:51,744 --> 00:14:55,024 sort of this process in which they find out about themselves and, you 242 00:14:55,024 --> 00:14:56,384 know, who they are and all this stuff. 243 00:14:57,165 --> 00:15:03,405 And, um, but they, you know, these are educators have a hard time 244 00:15:03,525 --> 00:15:08,365 than justifying, look, we have a curriculum that is really full. 245 00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:14,734 We have to teach them these hundreds of things or thousands of things, you 246 00:15:14,734 --> 00:15:17,174 know, contents, how to do something. 247 00:15:17,624 --> 00:15:17,904 Right. 248 00:15:17,904 --> 00:15:22,225 But we have to, so many of them and it keeps building up by the way, right? 249 00:15:22,615 --> 00:15:26,835 I mean, is it ever gonna be a smaller amount of stuff that they have to learn? 250 00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:29,785 No, actually it's just gonna be more and more and more. 251 00:15:30,045 --> 00:15:32,055 Because we discover more things, we have more tools, we have 252 00:15:32,055 --> 00:15:34,584 more ways of doing things, etc. 253 00:15:35,375 --> 00:15:39,275 So, given the time, you know, that we have with them, whether 254 00:15:39,444 --> 00:15:44,154 it be four years or however many years, you know, we're out of time. 255 00:15:44,185 --> 00:15:46,285 We don't have time for them to do this reflection. 256 00:15:46,575 --> 00:15:48,545 We don't have time for them to do this. 257 00:15:49,344 --> 00:15:54,255 In almost as if, well, Yes, I believe it's important. 258 00:15:54,335 --> 00:16:00,125 It's just not as important as, as the covering all 500 pages of 259 00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:05,164 the book and next year's the book is now a volume 2 has 600 pages. 260 00:16:06,084 --> 00:16:08,574 So it's even harder now, right? 261 00:16:08,604 --> 00:16:10,765 So what do you say to that? 262 00:16:11,954 --> 00:16:14,714 Well, I have, I have multiple opinions on this. 263 00:16:14,714 --> 00:16:15,314 One.. 264 00:16:16,015 --> 00:16:19,785 Um, what is the nature of the work that we do? 265 00:16:20,035 --> 00:16:25,494 Um, veterinary medicine is one where, as you say, there's not enough time for all 266 00:16:25,494 --> 00:16:27,084 the material that needs to be taught. 267 00:16:28,244 --> 00:16:31,144 But veterinary medicine is one of the things that that class that you took 268 00:16:31,165 --> 00:16:35,474 in fall semester of freshman year is an integral component of the stuff 269 00:16:35,474 --> 00:16:36,844 that you're doing in fourth year. 270 00:16:36,844 --> 00:16:39,034 It's not one of the things that you took the class, you pass the 271 00:16:39,034 --> 00:16:39,964 test, and you're done with it. 272 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:44,849 It's, it's medicine that builds on the knowledge already acquired. 273 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:50,050 And for that reason, it's not something you do it once and forget it. 274 00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:54,810 You have to incorporate it into the person that you're going to be later. 275 00:16:55,290 --> 00:17:01,129 So you have to revisit and the process of revisiting things and building 276 00:17:01,149 --> 00:17:05,339 on it, I think has been shown, and I'm not an expert on this by any 277 00:17:05,339 --> 00:17:08,470 means, but has been shown to create better retention and better learning, 278 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,030 better knowledge and understanding. 279 00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:14,530 When you incorporate concepts over and over and over and you build up on 280 00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:18,349 the complexity of each you understand a concept and then you add to it and 281 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,889 you add to it you add to it versus just seeing it one time and being 282 00:17:21,889 --> 00:17:26,269 expected to know everything about it, you know, even after the final test. 283 00:17:26,489 --> 00:17:27,269 So that's one thing. 284 00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:30,519 The second thing, and we actually just participated. 285 00:17:30,995 --> 00:17:38,475 In a conference where we're talking about feedback within the e portfolio, um, as 286 00:17:38,514 --> 00:17:44,955 a driver for self regulated learning, which is a process in the process of, you 287 00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:50,534 know, coming up with an idea, implementing that idea, getting feedback on that 288 00:17:50,534 --> 00:17:55,064 idea, accepting that feedback, seeing feedback for continuous improvement. 289 00:17:55,660 --> 00:18:00,629 And Continuous Propulsion, Propagation, and the process of learning a concept 290 00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:02,370 over and over and over in a better way. 291 00:18:02,370 --> 00:18:06,820 And so the ePortfolio was a perfect example of feedback as a 292 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,270 driver of self regulated learning. 293 00:18:09,499 --> 00:18:12,379 And that again goes into the factor that yes, there's not 294 00:18:12,379 --> 00:18:14,129 enough time for all the stuff. 295 00:18:14,995 --> 00:18:16,315 That we have to teach. 296 00:18:16,554 --> 00:18:19,145 Many people say that veterinary medicine is more difficult than human 297 00:18:19,155 --> 00:18:23,505 medicine because whereas human medicine they go obviously much deeper into 298 00:18:23,505 --> 00:18:28,125 one specific species, you know, we have to be able to improve on that. 299 00:18:28,734 --> 00:18:32,764 And the anatomy is not the same, the physiology is not the same, the the 300 00:18:32,774 --> 00:18:36,705 diseases are not the same, and, and, and the exam for you to have your 301 00:18:36,705 --> 00:18:38,309 veterinary license covers all of them. 302 00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:45,490 Um, and so there's a lot of stuff to be taught, but it's not a learn this 303 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:47,040 one time and you'll retain it forever. 304 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,619 And so you have to keep bringing it together. 305 00:18:49,619 --> 00:18:56,890 And so, um, I, I, we have to keep doing that even though there's not enough 306 00:18:56,890 --> 00:18:59,169 time, you have to keep revisiting items. 307 00:18:59,310 --> 00:19:01,240 It creates better retention of the material. 308 00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:03,800 It creates better understanding of new material. 309 00:19:04,670 --> 00:19:06,540 So all these things are very important. 310 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,960 It's almost like the net results over the long term is going to be much better 311 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,670 because you are now a better learner. 312 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,440 You are more efficient at learning. 313 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:20,250 You know what type of person you are and what makes you, you know, what drives you. 314 00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:23,680 And I think that there is plenty of research that shows that 315 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,940 when your drive is there, your performance shoots up exponentially. 316 00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:32,785 Without the drive You know, you're just doing it because 317 00:19:32,795 --> 00:19:36,725 someone dangling a certificate at the end and it's like dragging 318 00:19:36,725 --> 00:19:38,605 yourself to cross the finish line. 319 00:19:39,245 --> 00:19:42,684 Whereas with the drive, you want to cross the finish line because you 320 00:19:42,724 --> 00:19:44,165 got some more important stuff to do. 321 00:19:44,655 --> 00:19:46,245 Right, it's not just a certificate. 322 00:19:46,285 --> 00:19:50,584 And I think that's such a, to me, there's almost like this very visual way of 323 00:19:50,614 --> 00:19:54,879 thinking about, you know, like, You know, the, the, the two different tribes of, 324 00:19:54,969 --> 00:19:59,830 you know, people, you know, when, when one is, you know, filled with that drive that 325 00:20:00,029 --> 00:20:05,969 they can only get through a lot of self examination of them, of themselves, um, 326 00:20:06,089 --> 00:20:09,859 right, no one can tell you that, right, it's sort of like how you study yourself 327 00:20:09,870 --> 00:20:16,090 and get your experiences together and discovering them, um, I love the, some of 328 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:19,409 the things that you talk, all the things that you talked about, you know, your 329 00:20:19,409 --> 00:20:25,650 use of, you know, portfolios now, one of the things that, um, I, I, I kind of, 330 00:20:25,690 --> 00:20:30,520 you know, it sounds like, you know, they start in the beginning when they, when 331 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,300 they came, when they come to the program. 332 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,800 Is, is that correct? 333 00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:37,210 Uh, you mean the course that I'm providing? 334 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,879 The course, our students go through a four year curriculum here at the veterinary 335 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,870 college, and the fourth year students are rotating through the clinics, and so 336 00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:49,370 they are not actively in classes anymore. 337 00:20:49,370 --> 00:20:54,090 So the students that are Available to take, this is an elective course, 338 00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,040 we call them distribution courses, students that are able to take 339 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,690 distribution courses are students in their first, second, and third year. 340 00:21:00,130 --> 00:21:05,660 So, our course is available to any student in any of those first three years. 341 00:21:05,660 --> 00:21:09,309 So, they can take it at any time when they can fit it into their schedule. 342 00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:16,060 Um, obviously, a student in the third year has more curricular and extracurricular. 343 00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:22,550 Veterinary related experiences that have a deeper meaning that that veterinarian that 344 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,909 you were working during the summers while you were in high school type of scenario. 345 00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:30,530 So they can get a, though they should be able to get a deeper, 346 00:21:30,530 --> 00:21:32,399 more meaningful portfolio. 347 00:21:32,459 --> 00:21:35,629 The first year students are still producing really good portfolios. 348 00:21:35,860 --> 00:21:39,580 So, so the quality of the portfolios and the depth that they go into, 349 00:21:39,580 --> 00:21:41,469 they're still really good no matter what year they take it. 350 00:21:41,905 --> 00:21:47,335 But the main thing that gets, that gets driven into the process is 351 00:21:47,335 --> 00:21:51,494 that, that semester that you take the ePortfolio course, that you 352 00:21:51,495 --> 00:21:54,935 learn how to build your portfolio, that's not the end of your portfolio. 353 00:21:55,225 --> 00:21:59,365 This is a living, breathing document that needs to keep growing with you as 354 00:21:59,404 --> 00:22:03,805 you go through your curricular education and even after you leave the college. 355 00:22:03,845 --> 00:22:07,545 And so it just needs to keep getting updated and new reflections 356 00:22:07,555 --> 00:22:08,845 being put into it, whatever. 357 00:22:09,105 --> 00:22:12,245 The purpose of the course is to teach you how to create it and why you should 358 00:22:12,245 --> 00:22:15,655 create it and the importance of creating it and reflecting and the importance 359 00:22:15,655 --> 00:22:19,475 of all these things, but this is for you just to keep using it for later. 360 00:22:20,215 --> 00:22:22,215 So they can take it at any time. 361 00:22:23,665 --> 00:22:28,324 And I, and I think that one of the, I love that because it's so universal 362 00:22:28,325 --> 00:22:33,475 can, because by the way, some of the, the, the, to me, some of the really, 363 00:22:34,515 --> 00:22:40,494 um, sort of this continuum of when do you start to do this reflection? 364 00:22:40,874 --> 00:22:48,944 is a question that a lot of, I hear sometimes from, you know, um, sort of 365 00:22:49,995 --> 00:22:53,260 academics who would say, Oh, I love that. 366 00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:56,399 They, they should be able to do that, but only after they've learned all these 367 00:22:56,399 --> 00:23:04,070 skills, um, and, and it's, uh, it's, uh, it's sad because, you know, I think 368 00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:08,909 in some ways one would argue that those who are able to get exposed to this way 369 00:23:08,909 --> 00:23:14,020 of learning makes it more efficient for them to learn all the skills as they, 370 00:23:14,030 --> 00:23:17,620 you know, go through their, you know, their, their, their other coursework 371 00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:19,225 as they are taking a lot of content. 372 00:23:19,615 --> 00:23:25,084 And to that, to that end, I even say, Hey, look, I'm seeing, at Digication, 373 00:23:25,105 --> 00:23:26,435 we see a lot of high school students. 374 00:23:26,919 --> 00:23:30,889 Middle school students, even elementary school students do their versions of it. 375 00:23:31,030 --> 00:23:34,169 Now, they're not necessarily, the elementary school students are not 376 00:23:34,169 --> 00:23:37,599 necessarily doing the same kind of reflections that your students are doing, 377 00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:47,479 but this idea of giving them space and time to just kind of soak in what they've 378 00:23:47,479 --> 00:23:53,749 done and have a chance to think about it, have a chance to make sense of it, is, 379 00:23:54,309 --> 00:23:56,519 to me, is just a wonderful thing to do. 380 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,419 Yeah. 381 00:23:57,420 --> 00:24:03,560 And I have a gut feeling that the younger students, when they do the portfolio, 382 00:24:06,050 --> 00:24:10,289 at least in my mind, I think that when they approach those future experiences, 383 00:24:10,330 --> 00:24:18,040 their mindset towards them is different because they already get exposed to 384 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:20,480 reflection on what they already did. 385 00:24:21,164 --> 00:24:25,634 So they'll be pre-reflecting on what they're doing or what they will be doing. 386 00:24:25,644 --> 00:24:29,664 So there will be more meaning into why do I want to do this summer job? 387 00:24:29,674 --> 00:24:33,784 Or there'll be more meaning as to why do I really want to take this class? 388 00:24:33,894 --> 00:24:37,354 Like I'm not just taking this class now because I got to fulfill a requirement. 389 00:24:37,644 --> 00:24:41,415 I got to take this class because I'm interested in this or this will 390 00:24:41,495 --> 00:24:42,985 catapult me into something else. 391 00:24:43,405 --> 00:24:45,825 And by the way, it also fulfills a requirement. 392 00:24:46,065 --> 00:24:49,794 The end result is still the same, but the reason why might be different. 393 00:24:49,995 --> 00:24:53,724 And so I still think that the portfolio will create a huge 394 00:24:53,745 --> 00:24:55,175 difference in the process of. 395 00:24:55,700 --> 00:25:00,310 Just because people start acting and behaving differently at least 396 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:04,739 internally towards their vision of what is it that I need to do, why is 397 00:25:04,739 --> 00:25:08,839 it that I want to do that, and how am I going to get towards doing it. 398 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,130 I think their attitude is different. 399 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,560 Well, I think that your, the example that you gave also shows this. 400 00:25:17,095 --> 00:25:21,975 Incredible, um, direct correlations with the outcomes as well, because 401 00:25:21,975 --> 00:25:26,085 I think that a lot of folks that I talk to, they say, well, we don't 402 00:25:26,085 --> 00:25:29,235 have time for the reflection, because we have to cover all these things. 403 00:25:29,585 --> 00:25:32,465 And in their mind, they justify by saying, hey, look, you know, if they 404 00:25:32,465 --> 00:25:36,360 need to get a certificate in this, we know it for us to, you know, Give them, 405 00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:41,220 you know, give our seal of approval, we must, you know, cover these things. 406 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,580 I think some of it is just, you know, I think that there was a time where there 407 00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:48,909 was a finite amount of things that you can sort of squeeze in and it's okay. 408 00:25:49,275 --> 00:25:53,785 But I think that the content now is so vast, I mean, I can't imagine 409 00:25:53,785 --> 00:25:57,235 in your field, how do you even have time to study the, the, the, 410 00:25:57,365 --> 00:25:58,904 all the different species, right? 411 00:25:59,525 --> 00:26:05,515 Um, and so, so vast that it couldn't be the drive, the only drive. 412 00:26:06,104 --> 00:26:12,665 And so I, I, to me, one of the interesting thing that you had said was, it is 413 00:26:12,665 --> 00:26:16,695 in these reflections that get them. 414 00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:19,680 Job opportunities and getting them hired. 415 00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:25,190 So for all of the people thinking about what we can do to better our students 416 00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:27,340 lives in a very direct, simple way. 417 00:26:27,579 --> 00:26:28,820 Hey, they come here for this. 418 00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:32,749 I want them to be able to be successful and be fulfilled, you know, by being 419 00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:34,620 able to have these opportunities. 420 00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:35,480 Guess what? 421 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,830 The people hiring are also looking for that, actually. 422 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:41,320 They're looking for these reflections. 423 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,300 So these reflections are not this touchy feely thing that is 424 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,455 like It's nice to have, but you know, it's o it's, it's okay. 425 00:26:48,455 --> 00:26:49,175 We don't have it. 426 00:26:49,505 --> 00:26:51,905 If anything, it is the differentiator, isn't it? 427 00:26:52,655 --> 00:26:58,905 It is the differentiator and, and the reflections allow the students to have 428 00:26:58,910 --> 00:27:02,205 meaning towards that material that they're learning in the classroom. 429 00:27:02,205 --> 00:27:05,595 And so it's not just this stuff that they just gotta memorize to 430 00:27:05,595 --> 00:27:07,845 spit it into a test answer later. 431 00:27:09,135 --> 00:27:12,345 Their mentality is just changing into finding meaning into the scenario. 432 00:27:12,345 --> 00:27:16,095 I'm, I'm gonna tell you a very, very quick story about exactly what you just said. 433 00:27:16,465 --> 00:27:19,565 I have a colleague that I knew from veterinary school who said it was 434 00:27:19,565 --> 00:27:21,514 an equine practitioner as well. 435 00:27:21,835 --> 00:27:26,645 And she's one of the alumni that I have used as a reviewer of portfolios 436 00:27:26,695 --> 00:27:28,315 to give feedback to the students. 437 00:27:28,715 --> 00:27:32,804 And she has participated in this process with me for the last two years. 438 00:27:33,154 --> 00:27:35,384 And I was chatting with her the other day. 439 00:27:35,754 --> 00:27:44,485 In her mind now, a student from Cornell that applies for a job at her practice, 440 00:27:44,495 --> 00:27:49,435 she's got a fairly large practice, who does not provide a portfolio as 441 00:27:49,474 --> 00:27:51,624 part of their application materials. 442 00:27:52,009 --> 00:27:55,509 She instantaneously think that there might be something wrong with the student. 443 00:27:55,870 --> 00:27:57,070 Like, why did you not? 444 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,519 So, so it's flip the switch on the scenario like why 445 00:28:03,549 --> 00:28:05,089 don't you have a portfolio? 446 00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,809 Like, I would know so much more about you if I wanted you to 447 00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:11,529 be part of my business or not. 448 00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:15,090 From this portfolio, and I'm used now to the portfolio, if you 449 00:28:15,090 --> 00:28:18,419 don't have one, you're, you're leaving me as the employer hanging. 450 00:28:18,924 --> 00:28:20,475 Like your resume is not enough. 451 00:28:20,784 --> 00:28:21,604 I get comments. 452 00:28:21,664 --> 00:28:27,235 I have learned more about you from this portfolio than from any CV or any 453 00:28:27,245 --> 00:28:29,475 resume I have ever read in my life. 454 00:28:30,344 --> 00:28:33,294 Like I have never met you, but I know you. 455 00:28:33,564 --> 00:28:34,884 Like when can we meet? 456 00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:37,500 That's amazing. 457 00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:38,160 That's amazing. 458 00:28:38,330 --> 00:28:43,940 It's a, it's almost like by learning about yourself, you show the path 459 00:28:43,950 --> 00:28:45,290 for other people to learn about. 460 00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:46,520 What's your passion? 461 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,339 What drives you? 462 00:28:47,339 --> 00:28:49,289 What's your personal philosophy? 463 00:28:49,289 --> 00:28:50,420 What are your goals? 464 00:28:50,450 --> 00:28:54,439 What, what, what's your moral compass? 465 00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:58,450 Those things make a difference for those people that you will work 466 00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:02,929 with because you can learn all the book knowledge that you can. 467 00:29:03,149 --> 00:29:06,969 You could be the top graduate in your class and have the highest GPA. 468 00:29:07,435 --> 00:29:14,035 Absolutely an incredible feat, and you can, but if you can't tie your shoe when 469 00:29:14,035 --> 00:29:17,624 you go out into being the professional that you're trained to be, right? 470 00:29:17,625 --> 00:29:21,244 You could tell me, if you can tell me how to, the molecules that are made 471 00:29:21,244 --> 00:29:23,494 up to design those shoes, excellent. 472 00:29:23,504 --> 00:29:26,865 But if you can't tie it and walk with it, then what's the use? 473 00:29:27,054 --> 00:29:28,405 You gotta be able to do both. 474 00:29:28,985 --> 00:29:33,545 And so this is what potential employers are looking for example, or 475 00:29:33,565 --> 00:29:36,295 this is what the students should be looking for, for when they get out. 476 00:29:36,725 --> 00:29:39,985 They need to know why they want to know this information. 477 00:29:40,315 --> 00:29:41,855 Like what is the ultimate purpose? 478 00:29:41,855 --> 00:29:46,245 The ultimate purpose for a veterinarian is as the veterinarian's oath says, 479 00:29:46,264 --> 00:29:49,435 you know, to take care of animal lives. 480 00:29:49,965 --> 00:29:51,934 And so what is the purpose? 481 00:29:51,934 --> 00:29:54,455 You could be great at doing it, but if you don't know why 482 00:29:54,455 --> 00:29:56,102 you're doing it, or what is the. 483 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,070 Passion in doing it, then, then you're not going to be as good as you could be. 484 00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:03,460 And so the reflections create this and all this. 485 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,380 All the stuff that we've been talking about and hence the answer to the we don't 486 00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:11,350 have enough time in the curriculum for reflections, it's like, well, you better. 487 00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:19,239 Because this drives better learning than just material information on a one way 488 00:30:19,239 --> 00:30:21,010 street, which is a lecture to a student. 489 00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:24,499 It just, it's not, it just doesn't go there. 490 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,200 And by the way, we were talking earlier in this conversation about what it 491 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,580 was like when you and I were students. 492 00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:30,620 This was no part of the equation at all. 493 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:31,900 We didn't have this. 494 00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:37,240 And so, I think it's a much better way of approaching learning today 495 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,960 than what we had and just, again, maybe it was present, it would just 496 00:30:39,970 --> 00:30:42,710 not amplify, I think you used a word which I think is perfect, it would 497 00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:44,620 just not amplify to that level before. 498 00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:46,700 So, maybe better times now. 499 00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:50,220 So, I have one last question for you. 500 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:50,500 Sure. 501 00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:56,110 And it, it has more to do with, you know, your, I wanted to, to tell you 502 00:30:56,110 --> 00:31:04,275 that in the field of ePortfolios, in the, in the, in the, In the, the, the 503 00:31:04,275 --> 00:31:08,785 general sort of portfolio community had always made this assumption. 504 00:31:08,785 --> 00:31:11,524 Again, I think it's an assumption that's incorrect, but I think they've 505 00:31:11,524 --> 00:31:17,585 made this assumption that it's easier, is more natural, is more intuitive to 506 00:31:17,585 --> 00:31:22,394 do all this portfolio, reflections, et cetera, if you are in the arts. 507 00:31:23,575 --> 00:31:28,315 The science folks, the STEM folks, you know, the folks in medicine, the 508 00:31:28,315 --> 00:31:32,950 folks in engineering, the folks in You know, you guys are all very sort of 509 00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:38,040 black and white, and therefore, this, this, this, um, reflection stuff does 510 00:31:38,050 --> 00:31:40,510 not apply, um, it, it doesn't work. 511 00:31:41,410 --> 00:31:45,869 Now, of course, in your case, it does and is critical, but how would you 512 00:31:46,199 --> 00:31:52,270 sort of give people a little insight, the window of, you know, what real, 513 00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:56,400 you know, sort of what is really like in the, in, in, in, in the sciences? 514 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,390 Because I think that some of these are just people make assumptions 515 00:32:01,390 --> 00:32:05,020 because they didn't know what it's like, you know, to learn in, in, in, 516 00:32:05,030 --> 00:32:07,329 in, in the, in the science fields. 517 00:32:10,829 --> 00:32:14,510 I can see how in the non science fields, like, for example, my 518 00:32:14,510 --> 00:32:16,140 daughter in plant sciences. 519 00:32:18,719 --> 00:32:23,000 The showcasing of the work done and the beauty of the work you see in 520 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,260 public garden management, for example, the beauty of the work done and 521 00:32:26,685 --> 00:32:30,805 The accomplishments that the visual component that is extremely important 522 00:32:30,805 --> 00:32:34,985 and the portfolio allows in some case, allows them to showcase that 523 00:32:34,985 --> 00:32:39,105 together with the description of what they learn and the reflection on it. 524 00:32:39,114 --> 00:32:40,205 Extremely important. 525 00:32:40,735 --> 00:32:49,684 In the science scenario, pictures of them doing a surgery or pictures of them doing 526 00:32:49,684 --> 00:32:55,070 a physical exam on an animal, that is not Which will be the equivalent, right? 527 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,970 But that's not what drives the purpose of the portfolio. 528 00:32:59,730 --> 00:33:04,990 The science comes as to the why is that you want to be a scientist. 529 00:33:05,579 --> 00:33:06,390 I'll give you an example. 530 00:33:07,179 --> 00:33:12,759 You read one of my student's resumes, and you can see that this person has been 531 00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:15,840 interested in things related to oncology. 532 00:33:16,145 --> 00:33:18,885 And research related to cancer, for example. 533 00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:22,865 And you can see based on the resume that they have done experiences on this. 534 00:33:23,235 --> 00:33:31,185 If you, um, read about their experiences this will be, you don't know why 535 00:33:31,215 --> 00:33:35,785 maybe they're interested in this, you know, it's a, it's a, uh, um, great 536 00:33:35,785 --> 00:33:39,635 field within the medical field, with our human and veterinary space, etc. 537 00:33:40,625 --> 00:33:44,205 But when you read their portfolio, and then you discover through self 538 00:33:44,205 --> 00:33:50,775 reflection that maybe A parent died when they were young because of 539 00:33:50,785 --> 00:33:55,365 something related to cancer, and that drove them to be the type of 540 00:33:55,674 --> 00:33:58,115 scientist they want to be in the future. 541 00:33:58,544 --> 00:34:03,255 And now that who, why, and what, why they want to be an oncologist has much, 542 00:34:03,265 --> 00:34:05,584 much deeper meaning and significance. 543 00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:13,210 Significance that there's emotions associated with that non emotional 544 00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:14,940 component of a scientist, right? 545 00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:20,200 Science is supposed to not have emotion, but it brings emotion to the table. 546 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:25,965 So, As an example, an employer sees, you know, this is a life experience 547 00:34:26,885 --> 00:34:31,175 that has driven this person's drive towards being a scientist. 548 00:34:31,495 --> 00:34:35,265 That doesn't mean that somebody who didn't have a issue like that 549 00:34:35,284 --> 00:34:38,204 as a young age, that they wouldn't be a great scientist, but it's an 550 00:34:38,204 --> 00:34:40,085 example of something that showcases. 551 00:34:40,085 --> 00:34:45,324 And so the portfolio serves to showcase in the sciences, some 552 00:34:45,324 --> 00:34:47,355 things that there's no other way. 553 00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:51,750 That you would learn about this person because there's no interview as part of 554 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:53,400 a job interview that you would find out. 555 00:34:54,235 --> 00:34:58,805 That this future graduates drive towards becoming an oncologist 556 00:34:58,815 --> 00:35:01,885 because a parent died of cancer when they were little, that that's not 557 00:35:01,925 --> 00:35:03,115 going to come up in an interview. 558 00:35:03,115 --> 00:35:06,274 And by the way, you probably can't add, there'll be illegal for you to ask 559 00:35:06,275 --> 00:35:11,184 something like this, but if they reflect on the why they want to be that person. 560 00:35:11,465 --> 00:35:13,755 Now, you know, a lot more about this person. 561 00:35:13,755 --> 00:35:16,415 You understand their drive, you understand their passion. 562 00:35:16,575 --> 00:35:18,375 It has a lot more meaning to it. 563 00:35:18,375 --> 00:35:19,805 And there's emotions attached to it. 564 00:35:20,055 --> 00:35:22,355 So the portfolio brings something to the table. 565 00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:25,410 That is actually make science that much more powerful. 566 00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:29,960 So it's just a different way of using an incredible tool. 567 00:35:31,070 --> 00:35:31,660 I love that. 568 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:32,190 I love that. 569 00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:38,799 It's, it's, it's almost like the, you know, the, to me, I always find that, you 570 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,399 know, when we, when we hire people, you know, the skills and all of that is fine. 571 00:35:43,470 --> 00:35:45,490 It's really, you know, it's a big test. 572 00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,750 Sometimes is when things get hard. 573 00:35:48,740 --> 00:35:49,480 Can you? 574 00:35:49,735 --> 00:35:50,855 Can you push through? 575 00:35:51,355 --> 00:35:55,125 You know, when things get really tough, when things that seem impossible, 576 00:35:55,135 --> 00:35:56,985 do you have that extra drive? 577 00:35:57,375 --> 00:36:00,155 The extra gear that if everyone's just running on the same 578 00:36:00,165 --> 00:36:01,575 gear, we're all good here. 579 00:36:02,215 --> 00:36:04,364 You know, like we can drive you at a high speed. 580 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:05,480 Is, is good. 581 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,080 But when I need that extra gear, do you have it? 582 00:36:08,990 --> 00:36:12,320 And without knowing, like without knowing that reflection, I 583 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,120 don't know whether they have it. 584 00:36:14,740 --> 00:36:15,050 You know? 585 00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:18,260 We always say one of the true measures of a vetenarian is what do 586 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:19,789 you do when no one's looking, right? 587 00:36:19,950 --> 00:36:24,089 The animal is here with you, they can't talk, they can't say, right, um, 588 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,026 when, when times get tough and are you doing the right thing by your patient 589 00:36:29,026 --> 00:36:30,550 that nobody else would know, right? 590 00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:33,500 And that's just that. 591 00:36:33,775 --> 00:36:37,565 Passion, that drive, that extra gear that you're talking about is something that 592 00:36:37,595 --> 00:36:40,265 actually can be seen through a reflection. 593 00:36:40,455 --> 00:36:42,295 You otherwise wouldn't know it. 594 00:36:43,105 --> 00:36:45,035 And like you said, I can teach you any skill. 595 00:36:45,575 --> 00:36:48,705 I can teach you how to suture a patient after a spay. 596 00:36:48,765 --> 00:36:53,645 I can teach you how to do a nerve block on an animal for a lameness exam. 597 00:36:54,325 --> 00:36:55,945 I can't teach you how to care. 598 00:36:56,385 --> 00:36:59,015 I can't teach you how to have passion for what you do. 599 00:36:59,285 --> 00:37:02,215 I can't teach you how to have pride on the work being done. 600 00:37:02,805 --> 00:37:07,725 And reflecting on these things does drive those things to come 601 00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:09,514 up to the service and be seen. 602 00:37:09,945 --> 00:37:14,340 And if you don't have them I, in my mind, hope that the process of 603 00:37:14,340 --> 00:37:17,450 reflecting might start generating those feelings to come through. 604 00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:24,400 So, it's extremely valuable, the process of helping people truly 605 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,030 become better versions of themselves. 606 00:37:28,750 --> 00:37:29,800 Well, that's beautiful. 607 00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:34,840 Um, well, I guess, you know, there's so much more that we could talk about and 608 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,730 maybe we'll hopefully find another time to, to continue this conversation, but it 609 00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:44,259 is, uh, lovely having this conversation with you, Jorge, and I really appreciate 610 00:37:44,259 --> 00:37:46,050 you sharing all of these insights. 611 00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:47,879 Well, Jeff, truly my pleasure. 612 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:48,919 Thank you for having me. 613 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,330 This, I, I enjoy. 614 00:37:50,745 --> 00:37:55,295 The, uh, Digication product that you guys put together, I enjoy, truly enjoy 615 00:37:55,705 --> 00:37:58,695 what's been accomplished with it and what we'll continue to accomplish. 616 00:37:59,165 --> 00:38:04,065 Everything that's happened thanks to the ePortfolio is much, much greater 617 00:38:04,065 --> 00:38:07,384 and bigger than what I ever thought I was going to accomplish with it 618 00:38:07,394 --> 00:38:10,340 because, um, um, I'm not that smart. 619 00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:15,740 Um, it's, it's way beyond anything that we ever thought we could accomplish with it. 620 00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:20,539 And, and it goes into the process of showcasing to other people 621 00:38:20,539 --> 00:38:23,739 what our students are made of and, and what drives them. 622 00:38:23,739 --> 00:38:25,930 And so it's a, it's a huge. 623 00:38:26,495 --> 00:38:30,405 The important component of what I do here at the college now and, and 624 00:38:30,415 --> 00:38:33,695 being able to talk about this with you and for, for your listeners is, 625 00:38:33,725 --> 00:38:35,344 it's completely a pleasure for me. 626 00:38:35,344 --> 00:38:36,655 So thank you for the opportunity. 627 00:38:38,215 --> 00:38:38,645 Thank you. 628 00:38:38,645 --> 00:38:39,745 Thank you for the kind words. 629 00:38:39,834 --> 00:38:40,245 All right. 630 00:38:40,275 --> 00:38:42,755 Well, take care and talk to you soon. 631 00:38:42,755 --> 00:38:43,145 Okay. 632 00:38:43,164 --> 00:38:43,394 Okay. 633 00:38:43,395 --> 00:38:43,894 Thanks Jeff. 634 00:38:43,894 --> 00:38:44,355 I appreciate it. 635 00:38:45,794 --> 00:38:47,245 This concludes our conversation. 636 00:38:47,875 --> 00:38:52,025 To hear our next episode, be sure to subscribe to Digication Scholars 637 00:38:52,025 --> 00:38:56,685 Conversations on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. 638 00:38:57,534 --> 00:39:01,805 The Digication Scholars Conversations series is brought to you by Digication, 639 00:39:02,535 --> 00:39:06,345 a technology platform powering the most innovative ePortfolio programs 640 00:39:06,414 --> 00:39:07,965 in K 12 and higher education. 641 00:39:08,745 --> 00:39:11,085 Our website can be found at digication.com. 642 00:39:11,105 --> 00:39:14,825 If you enjoyed today's conversation, please like, 643 00:39:15,015 --> 00:39:16,515 subscribe, and share with a friend. 644 00:39:17,225 --> 00:39:18,215 Thanks for tuning in.