1 00:00:12,967 --> 00:00:18,354 Hello, my name is David Olds and I'm your cohost for Mississippi Happenings podcast. 2 00:00:18,375 --> 00:00:22,120 Joining me each week is my friend and cohost, Mr. 3 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,171 Jim Newman. 4 00:00:23,171 --> 00:00:24,946 Jim, hello, how are you? 5 00:00:24,946 --> 00:00:27,759 Oh, if I were any better I'd be twins. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,561 of course, of course. 7 00:00:31,855 --> 00:00:38,829 As you know, each week we discuss the kitchen table issues that face, that all of us face in Mississippi. 8 00:00:39,090 --> 00:00:49,535 Not only do we discuss those issues and offer information from experts in the field and solutions or plans of actions. 9 00:00:49,535 --> 00:00:54,970 ah This week, we are again going to talk about 10 00:00:54,970 --> 00:00:58,532 public education in Mississippi. 11 00:00:58,673 --> 00:01:01,275 Our guest this week is Nancy Lume. 12 00:01:01,275 --> 00:01:05,217 She is the executive director of Mississippi Parents Campaign. 13 00:01:05,217 --> 00:01:09,040 She has held this position for the past 19 years. 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:23,080 And it is the mission of the Mississippi Parents Campaign to ensure that public education, parents, educators, and supporters have a voice in the legislature. 15 00:01:23,278 --> 00:01:38,978 the legislative and policy decision that affect our children's education and a means by which they can hold legislators and policymakers accountable. 16 00:01:39,220 --> 00:01:41,456 Nancy, it's good to see you again. 17 00:01:41,456 --> 00:01:43,585 Thank you, it's great to be with you. 18 00:01:44,216 --> 00:01:58,715 Nancy was here with us back in February and we had a good discussion, yes, about funding, about uh school choice vouchers. 19 00:01:58,875 --> 00:02:03,778 And having said that, uh Jim, I will turn it over to you. 20 00:02:03,814 --> 00:02:05,176 well, thank you. 21 00:02:05,559 --> 00:02:06,335 you 22 00:02:08,419 --> 00:02:10,771 Nancy, let's just start off. 23 00:02:10,771 --> 00:02:17,997 Why are public uh taxpayer monies going to private schools? 24 00:02:18,598 --> 00:02:19,889 Well, they shouldn't be. 25 00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:22,310 And our constitution says that they shouldn't be. 26 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:30,043 ah There's a provision in our constitution that says that no public funds should go to a school that is not a free school. 27 00:02:30,043 --> 00:02:34,695 Any school that charges tuition should not be eligible to receive public funds. 28 00:02:34,695 --> 00:02:45,744 ah But there is a push from this voucher lobby from folks, most of it's coming from out of state, from folks that want to for. 29 00:02:45,744 --> 00:02:53,969 variety of reasons want to have shift public funds away from public schools and into private schools. 30 00:02:53,969 --> 00:02:58,191 And there are different reasons that people have for wanting this. 31 00:02:58,411 --> 00:03:08,137 For example, one of the biggest advocates for school choice at the national level is Betsy DeVos. 32 00:03:08,137 --> 00:03:12,459 She was the education secretary and President Trump's first term. 33 00:03:12,579 --> 00:03:14,020 And she, her 34 00:03:14,256 --> 00:03:17,779 particular angle on this is a little unique. 35 00:03:17,779 --> 00:03:25,225 She believes strongly that all of our schools should be proselytizing. 36 00:03:25,225 --> 00:03:35,153 She believes that all of our schools should be, essence indoctrinating children into Christianity. 37 00:03:35,153 --> 00:03:43,860 uh And so she wants to see public funds going into private schools that uh 38 00:03:44,028 --> 00:03:47,170 profess Christianity, teach Christianity. 39 00:03:47,371 --> 00:03:48,492 So that's her angle. 40 00:03:48,492 --> 00:04:02,484 uh I don't guess it dawns on her that that means that there also would be public funds going to other religions that also would be proselytizing and indoctrinating children in 41 00:04:02,484 --> 00:04:04,515 religions that are not Christianity. 42 00:04:04,515 --> 00:04:08,298 Then there is... 43 00:04:08,892 --> 00:04:16,566 There are other organizations, for example, Americans for Prosperity is one of the national groups that pushes school choice. 44 00:04:16,566 --> 00:04:20,639 Their angle, that is a libertarian organization. 45 00:04:20,659 --> 00:04:27,233 And they really don't believe that government should be involved in education generally. 46 00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:36,540 So they, in essence, believe that we should just give parents back the tax dollars that go to education and let them spend those funds however they want to. 47 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:45,159 rather than having any schools that are run by a state or regulated by the state. 48 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:54,300 And then there are some folks, know, there are a few folks who just have their children in private schools and would like for someone else to pay for it. 49 00:04:54,300 --> 00:05:05,812 So there are different reasons, but overwhelmingly, clear majority of people, not only in Mississippi, but across the country. 50 00:05:05,956 --> 00:05:07,176 oppose that. 51 00:05:07,277 --> 00:05:10,439 They disagree with those positions. 52 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:23,559 Overwhelmingly, people believe that public funds should be reserved for public schools that are held to certain academic standards and that are accountable to taxpayers for the 53 00:05:23,559 --> 00:05:28,873 way that they, the success that they have in moving children toward those standards. 54 00:05:28,873 --> 00:05:32,720 And that because they are publicly funded, they have an obligation 55 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:41,493 to be accountable to taxpayers in all kinds of ways for how they spend their funds, um how they educate children, all of those things. 56 00:05:41,493 --> 00:05:47,964 So public schools are accountable to the public in that way. 57 00:05:48,065 --> 00:05:50,085 Private schools are not. 58 00:05:50,125 --> 00:05:56,467 And so most people oppose school choice. 59 00:05:56,467 --> 00:06:00,268 And we know that because 60 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:01,581 for all kinds of reasons. 61 00:06:01,581 --> 00:06:13,245 I mean, we see that in polls and that sort of thing, but also because the issue of using public money to fund private schools has been on statewide ballots 13 times in other 62 00:06:13,245 --> 00:06:14,126 states. 63 00:06:14,126 --> 00:06:27,131 It's never been on the ballot in Mississippi, but over the years, it's been on the statewide ballot 13 times in other states, and it has lost overwhelmingly every single one 64 00:06:27,131 --> 00:06:27,852 of those times. 65 00:06:27,852 --> 00:06:29,402 It has never won. 66 00:06:29,402 --> 00:06:34,373 School Choice has never won a ballot initiative in any state at any time. 67 00:06:34,533 --> 00:06:42,046 It most recently was on the ballot in three states in last November's presidential election. 68 00:06:42,046 --> 00:06:50,118 It was on the ballot in Colorado, Kentucky, and Nebraska, and was defeated overwhelmingly in each one of those states. 69 00:06:50,818 --> 00:06:58,190 Some interesting data, Kentucky is a really interesting state to look at in terms of its initiative. 70 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:04,985 School choice, you know, as you know, Kentucky voted, for President Trump. 71 00:07:05,285 --> 00:07:09,508 So, Kentuckians voted for, the majority of Kentuckians voted for President Trump. 72 00:07:09,689 --> 00:07:14,253 School choice not only lost overwhelmingly, it lost in every single county. 73 00:07:14,253 --> 00:07:17,215 It did not win in one county in Kentucky. 74 00:07:17,235 --> 00:07:19,977 And here's the really interesting data point. 75 00:07:19,998 --> 00:07:28,264 The higher in a county, the higher the margin of victory for President Trump, the higher the margin of defeat for school choice. 76 00:07:29,196 --> 00:07:44,758 So uh it is clear that this is an area where even those people who are strong supporters of President Trump disagree with him on this issue. 77 00:07:45,679 --> 00:07:52,279 Well, you mentioned earlier that the state constitution prohibits that. 78 00:07:53,482 --> 00:07:55,685 Has anybody sued over this? 79 00:07:57,446 --> 00:08:07,281 There has been one lawsuit filed, now there have been lawsuits in other states, ah yes, but in Mississippi where it is our constitutional provision that you're talking about, 80 00:08:07,722 --> 00:08:11,414 there has been one lawsuit filed by Parents for Public Schools. 81 00:08:11,414 --> 00:08:14,386 That is a different organization from the Parents Campaign. 82 00:08:14,386 --> 00:08:18,952 We get confused with them a lot because we both have parents in our name and that's okay with us, they do great work. 83 00:08:18,952 --> 00:08:25,772 So we don't mind people confusing us with Parents for Public Schools, but we also don't wanna take credit for the good work that they do. 84 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:37,027 Parents for public schools filed a lawsuit a couple of years ago over uh an appropriation of federal pandemic funds that were sent to Mississippi. 85 00:08:37,027 --> 00:08:41,310 And then the legislature appropriated those funds for different purposes. 86 00:08:41,651 --> 00:08:50,876 And one of those purposes was a $10 million appropriation for infrastructure improvements in private schools. 87 00:08:50,877 --> 00:08:53,409 So those funds were not to go to any public school. 88 00:08:53,409 --> 00:08:55,079 was $10 million designated 89 00:08:55,824 --> 00:09:05,217 for private schools and specifically for infrastructure, which is interesting because the state of Mississippi doesn't provide facilities funding, infrastructure funding for public 90 00:09:05,217 --> 00:09:06,147 schools. 91 00:09:06,807 --> 00:09:16,950 So parents for public schools sued um over that appropriation and parents for public schools won in the lower courts. 92 00:09:16,950 --> 00:09:24,472 The lower courts ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, parents for public schools that the constitution says 93 00:09:24,582 --> 00:09:28,234 There shall not be any appropriation to a school that is not free. 94 00:09:28,234 --> 00:09:41,401 um The state of Mississippi, which was the defense, appealed that to the Supreme Court, the state Supreme Court. 95 00:09:42,862 --> 00:09:54,297 And interestingly, the state Supreme Court, rather than ruling on the merits of the case, which were clear, I mean, the constitution is perfectly clear. 96 00:09:54,297 --> 00:09:55,497 about that. 97 00:09:56,117 --> 00:10:11,931 The state supreme court ruled that parents for public schools, which is of course made up of parents who have children in public schools, the supreme court ruled that they did not 98 00:10:11,931 --> 00:10:23,820 have standing to sue because they were not, there was no negative impact to them uh due to that appropriation, which of course you know you 99 00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:38,559 If you're talking about ruling on the constitutionality of uh this constitutional provision that says funding cannot go to a private school, if public school parents don't 100 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:49,846 have standing to sue, I'm not sure who in Mississippi does have standing to sue, but that was the ruling and so the case was thrown out and not decided. 101 00:10:49,861 --> 00:11:04,565 Well, it seems like you need to ah three or four parents who have children in public school to do the lawsuit because they will have standing. 102 00:11:04,860 --> 00:11:06,523 Well, that is who sued. 103 00:11:06,544 --> 00:11:08,650 That's who testified. 104 00:11:08,650 --> 00:11:13,188 That's who was testifying, were parents who had their children in public school. 105 00:11:13,188 --> 00:11:16,995 it the ah parents' organization? 106 00:11:17,626 --> 00:11:19,686 The parents organization brought the lawsuit. 107 00:11:19,686 --> 00:11:22,298 There were parents who were testifying. 108 00:11:22,298 --> 00:11:24,018 Well, that's the problem. 109 00:11:24,519 --> 00:11:36,803 You need the parents of children to have standing because they will be the ones ah most affected by the loss of public funds. 110 00:11:37,083 --> 00:11:42,065 And that happens all around courts ah dismiss. 111 00:11:44,397 --> 00:11:50,221 lawsuits because people don't have standing because they're not directly affected. 112 00:11:51,062 --> 00:11:57,866 So you got to have parents that have children and they're the ones that have to file the lawsuits. 113 00:11:59,428 --> 00:11:59,892 Mr. 114 00:11:59,892 --> 00:12:00,337 and Mrs. 115 00:12:00,337 --> 00:12:10,936 Jane Doe and Betty Doe, whatever the names are, ah to bring anything that's going to stand up in court. 116 00:12:10,936 --> 00:12:13,437 ah 117 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:15,723 perhaps that was the mistake. 118 00:12:16,934 --> 00:12:19,475 I suspect that that was the mistake. 119 00:12:20,116 --> 00:12:38,788 I'm really interested in what you have to say about ah the special committee that Chad White has appointed to look into education, health care, and a couple of other things. 120 00:12:38,788 --> 00:12:43,051 ah Are they having any public hearings? 121 00:12:43,552 --> 00:12:45,933 And if they are, 122 00:12:46,661 --> 00:12:49,257 They're certainly not letting us know about it. 123 00:12:50,085 --> 00:12:55,370 So they are having committee meetings where they have invited speakers testifying. 124 00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:59,894 I don't think that they are opening up as a hearing for public comment. 125 00:12:59,894 --> 00:13:16,294 The first meeting was held about a month ago and had only, they had two representatives from Washington DC um that came, that they said were experts in school choice. 126 00:13:16,294 --> 00:13:20,797 who came to present the pro-school choice side of the issue. 127 00:13:20,797 --> 00:13:28,673 So there was no one allowed to speak at that first meeting who was opposed to school choice. 128 00:13:28,893 --> 00:13:32,096 But the room was filled with people who were opposed to school choice. 129 00:13:32,096 --> 00:13:40,081 ah They are having the second meeting next week on Thursday the 25th at 10 a.m. 130 00:13:40,202 --> 00:13:43,639 Last I checked, it was not on the legislative website, but... 131 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:50,663 I checked in with the chairman and he confirmed for me that that is the time and date of the meeting. 132 00:13:50,663 --> 00:13:54,215 It's going to be held at the Capitol in room 113. 133 00:13:54,215 --> 00:14:01,238 We would encourage folks to come to that meeting again at 10 a.m. 134 00:14:01,658 --> 00:14:12,664 and ah they have said that they will have uh speakers representing public schools and folks who don't agree. 135 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:21,070 who agree, people who support our constitution that says that no public funds should go to uh private schools. 136 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,732 Will you be able to speak? 137 00:14:24,723 --> 00:14:37,564 No, I asked to be able to speak and was um not given a slot, although the chairman did say that he would put me on the list for the next There is going to be another meeting. 138 00:14:37,564 --> 00:14:43,689 So he said he would put me on the list for the next meeting and let me know whether or not that works out. 139 00:14:45,058 --> 00:14:46,709 Who is on the list? 140 00:14:47,247 --> 00:14:49,187 I don't know that. 141 00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:50,547 I haven't seen the agenda. 142 00:14:50,547 --> 00:14:52,127 I have not seen the agenda. 143 00:14:52,162 --> 00:14:53,973 I wonder if it's anybody. 144 00:14:54,389 --> 00:15:05,958 article in Mississippi Today from March the 9th, and it talks about Representative Trey Lamar, who's out of Senatobia. 145 00:15:06,479 --> 00:15:11,923 And he is the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. 146 00:15:11,923 --> 00:15:22,444 ah And it's very interesting that, uh of course, he's out of Senatobia, and Senatobia is the home of Magnolia. 147 00:15:22,444 --> 00:15:36,264 Heights, the private school, and they received, Magnolia Heights received $386,500 through a program last year. 148 00:15:37,024 --> 00:15:41,432 That's a big chunk of change. 149 00:15:41,432 --> 00:15:46,096 Was that government money or federal government or state government? 150 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:52,550 This is, I'm trying to find out, Nancy, do you know the answer to that? 151 00:15:52,550 --> 00:16:04,750 that is probably Children's Promise Act money and what that is, um it is a program that Chairman Lamar strongly supports and wants to increase. 152 00:16:04,750 --> 00:16:15,919 It is a dollar-for-dollar tax credit, not a tax deduction, but a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for donations to private schools. 153 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:21,123 So in essence, the state is saying, hey, if you'll write a check 154 00:16:21,123 --> 00:16:26,465 to your private school will pay you back. 155 00:16:26,465 --> 00:16:28,966 pretend like you paid your taxes. 156 00:16:29,447 --> 00:16:37,070 And not act like, not force you to, but you will reduce your tax bill by the amount of the check that you write to your private school. 157 00:16:37,070 --> 00:16:40,291 So it is public money going to private schools. 158 00:16:40,611 --> 00:16:50,305 Really the thing that the private schools love about the Children's Promise Act is that um there is no, they don't even, it's just, 159 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:51,960 a donation. 160 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,661 there not only is there no accountability for it, they don't even have to enroll a student. 161 00:16:56,762 --> 00:17:00,783 There is zero strings attached to that. 162 00:17:01,044 --> 00:17:14,520 When you think about all of the regulations and oversight and scrutiny that is um given to public schools for every penny that they spend, the way that they educate children, their 163 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,261 outcomes, that sort of thing. 164 00:17:17,895 --> 00:17:22,677 The disparity is absolutely enormous there. 165 00:17:22,677 --> 00:17:31,519 But this program, I would love to tell you about how this program came to be and um what has happened with it since then. 166 00:17:33,695 --> 00:17:36,641 I would be glad to tell you about this program. 167 00:17:37,401 --> 00:17:43,719 So in 2019, there was a bill that I believe it was the bond bill. 168 00:17:43,719 --> 00:17:44,718 was... 169 00:17:44,718 --> 00:17:45,749 a tax bill. 170 00:17:45,749 --> 00:17:48,240 was not anything related to education. 171 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,062 It did not come through the education committee, so it was not on our radar. 172 00:17:52,062 --> 00:17:58,195 But I do remember when it was uh described on the floor of each chamber. 173 00:17:58,315 --> 00:18:06,019 And on the floor of each chamber, this bill was described, it was the Children's Promise Act. 174 00:18:06,019 --> 00:18:14,183 uh members of the legislature were told that this was a wonderful program that was going to provide tax credits for donations 175 00:18:14,329 --> 00:18:19,663 to organizations that serve and support children in foster care. 176 00:18:19,663 --> 00:18:30,709 For example, uh Methodist Children's Home, Baptist Children's Village, these wonderful organizations that house and serve children in the foster care system. 177 00:18:31,439 --> 00:18:34,922 So of course, who would oppose that? 178 00:18:34,922 --> 00:18:36,433 one did. 179 00:18:37,514 --> 00:18:39,415 What they were not told, 180 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:55,099 was that there was a provision written in and the program was to be capped at a maximum of tax credits, a maximum of five million dollars in tax credits for the year, per year. 181 00:18:55,859 --> 00:19:08,859 So what the members of the Senate and House were not told in 2019 was that there was a provision written into the legislation. 182 00:19:08,889 --> 00:19:18,522 that said that half of those tax credits would go to private schools, could go to private schools, would be designated for donations to private schools. 183 00:19:19,142 --> 00:19:35,387 Now they made it look as if these were private schools who were serving this certain population of children because they said in the legislation, it said that a private school 184 00:19:35,387 --> 00:19:37,447 could qualify 185 00:19:37,743 --> 00:19:48,230 to receive the maximum allowable amount in tax credited donations if they met one of three provisions. 186 00:19:48,431 --> 00:19:56,927 One of the provisions was that they served a student, there was no minimum, so one student who was in foster care, that was one way. 187 00:19:56,927 --> 00:20:02,601 If a private school served one student who was in foster care, enrolled one student. 188 00:20:02,601 --> 00:20:05,922 The other way was if the, um 189 00:20:05,922 --> 00:20:13,557 school enrolled one student who was economically disadvantaged or qualified for free or reduced price lunch. 190 00:20:13,577 --> 00:20:23,724 So if the school did one of those two things or if the school served one student who had a chronic illness or disability. 191 00:20:23,724 --> 00:20:35,731 So that could be a food allergy, it could be asthma, it could be ADHD, it could be any kind of one student who 192 00:20:35,959 --> 00:20:46,338 met any one of those criteria, then the school was eligible to receive the maximum amount in tax credit to donations. 193 00:20:46,338 --> 00:20:53,450 can't imagine a school that does not have one of all of those kids, even in public schools. 194 00:20:54,221 --> 00:20:56,112 private schools too, right, that's right. 195 00:20:56,112 --> 00:20:56,822 That's right. 196 00:20:56,822 --> 00:21:05,417 And so a hundred schools qualified, private schools qualified, right, all of them, basically qualified, all of them that wanted to qualify. 197 00:21:06,278 --> 00:21:09,079 So we didn't catch that. 198 00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:10,830 It wasn't an education bill. 199 00:21:10,830 --> 00:21:15,203 It wasn't described as anything that was sending money to private schools. 200 00:21:15,203 --> 00:21:17,064 And so we didn't catch it. 201 00:21:17,064 --> 00:21:21,866 The next year, they came back with a little technical amendment in that bill. 202 00:21:22,957 --> 00:21:33,457 or in a big tax bill that increased the $5 million total appropriation or total maximum tax credits by some amount. 203 00:21:33,457 --> 00:21:38,321 And they increased that amount for a couple of years before we caught it. 204 00:21:38,321 --> 00:21:48,731 By the time we caught it, the total maximum in tax credits was $18 million, $9 million of which goes to private schools. 205 00:21:49,102 --> 00:21:54,096 So the maximum amount that one school is eligible for is $405,000. 206 00:21:54,096 --> 00:22:12,512 And so we have tiny, tiny, tiny private schools that might serve 40 or 50 children who are eligible for up to $405,000 in tax credited donations that are just money that's skimmed 207 00:22:12,512 --> 00:22:15,885 right off the top of our public funds going to these private schools. 208 00:22:15,885 --> 00:22:16,795 And again, 209 00:22:17,109 --> 00:22:29,647 no obligation to enroll any child, no obligation to serve children with special needs, no obligation to provide any special services for those categories that they have to meet, 210 00:22:29,647 --> 00:22:33,592 you know, to be eligible to participate in the program. 211 00:22:33,592 --> 00:22:40,632 Okay, now you just said 450,000 skimmed off the top of public funds. 212 00:22:41,647 --> 00:22:44,447 405 per eligible school. 213 00:22:44,547 --> 00:22:52,881 is $9 million of the tax credited donations annually that. 214 00:22:52,881 --> 00:22:55,354 their donations to? 215 00:22:55,407 --> 00:22:56,628 private schools. 216 00:22:57,048 --> 00:22:59,497 that make it directly to the private school. 217 00:22:59,907 --> 00:23:01,708 They write a check to the private school. 218 00:23:01,708 --> 00:23:06,269 They sign up to get their tax credits on January 1st when it goes live. 219 00:23:06,269 --> 00:23:14,971 And my understanding is that the tax credits that they apply for the tax credits um as soon as the website goes live on January 1st. 220 00:23:14,971 --> 00:23:23,343 And my understanding is that within 10 minutes, they're all snapped up because private schools send out reminders ah at the end of the year. 221 00:23:23,343 --> 00:23:29,325 Don't forget on January 1st to apply to get your tax credits. 222 00:23:31,382 --> 00:23:33,950 Is there any way to know who's donating? 223 00:23:34,669 --> 00:23:45,084 No, not to know who is donating, but you can see, and that is what Mississippi Today, that's what David was referring to in Mississippi Today's report. 224 00:23:45,084 --> 00:23:59,411 There is, you can find out how much each school is getting and which schools have signed up to be eligible, ah but you cannot see who the donors are. 225 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:13,175 And this is private schools have said publicly that this is their preferred way to receive state funds because there are no strings attached. 226 00:24:13,175 --> 00:24:25,180 MAIS is the largest organization, statewide organization for private schools, the Mississippi Association of Independent Schools. 227 00:24:25,201 --> 00:24:26,138 And on their 228 00:24:26,138 --> 00:24:44,298 On their year-end report, they had a page advising their people that they should not support vouchers because they were concerned that there might be some accountability that 229 00:24:44,298 --> 00:24:47,330 would come with a voucher for tuition. 230 00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:55,274 um And that it actually says on that page to beware that their 231 00:24:55,602 --> 00:25:06,922 folks should be aware because school choice, the school choice movement, the voucher movement is really about equity and inclusion and that they should oppose that and instead 232 00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:13,081 they should push for tax credits for donations to private schools. 233 00:25:13,081 --> 00:25:15,690 How many of these schools are we talking about? 234 00:25:16,434 --> 00:25:21,774 Last I looked, there were about 100 that had signed up to receive the tax credit. 235 00:25:21,774 --> 00:25:25,314 Now we have, there were probably a couple hundred private schools in Mississippi. 236 00:25:25,861 --> 00:25:26,677 Really? 237 00:25:26,677 --> 00:25:27,494 Well, yes. 238 00:25:27,494 --> 00:25:28,875 Some of them are tiny. 239 00:25:28,875 --> 00:25:39,384 mean, you're talking about now there's this national push for what they call micro schools, which are just groups of parents that are really homeschooling their children 240 00:25:39,384 --> 00:25:44,288 that get together and kind of share that responsibility for homeschooling their kids. 241 00:25:44,288 --> 00:25:47,470 And so these micro schools might have 10 kids in them. 242 00:25:47,811 --> 00:25:56,538 So you're talking, I mean, when you start looking at schools that are that small and serving that few students, 243 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,788 That adds a lot of schools. 244 00:25:59,093 --> 00:26:00,164 Let me ask you something. 245 00:26:00,164 --> 00:26:03,966 You may not know the answer and that's all right. 246 00:26:04,727 --> 00:26:16,035 Given the vaccination situation, will private schools or our private schools required to follow the same vaccination laws as public schools? 247 00:26:16,848 --> 00:26:23,441 No, a lot of them do require vaccinations, but they are not required to. 248 00:26:23,441 --> 00:26:39,769 Now, let me also remind you that there was a ruling that, it was not legislation that was passed. 249 00:26:39,769 --> 00:26:41,059 It was a court ruling. 250 00:26:41,059 --> 00:26:43,150 It was a lawsuit. 251 00:26:44,942 --> 00:26:57,571 alleging that Mississippians should be allowed a religious exemption for it was a violation of their rights not to allow a religious exemption. 252 00:26:57,571 --> 00:26:59,952 So there had always been a medical exemption. 253 00:26:59,952 --> 00:27:08,408 If your child, if there was a medical reason that your child should not take a vaccination that has always been allowed for your child to attend public schools without with a 254 00:27:08,408 --> 00:27:10,839 medical exemption for vaccinations. 255 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,622 But this was a lawsuit alleging 256 00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:22,495 that it was a violation of religious rights to force children to be vaccinated to attend public schools, that they should have a religious exemption. 257 00:27:23,296 --> 00:27:31,242 When that lawsuit was filed against the state, our attorney general, Attorney General Fitch, agreed with the plaintiffs. 258 00:27:31,242 --> 00:27:36,305 Instead of defending our state laws, she agreed with them. 259 00:27:36,686 --> 00:27:38,566 And so that was that. 260 00:27:38,747 --> 00:27:40,699 And so that was the ruling of the courts. 261 00:27:40,699 --> 00:27:43,570 It's like, okay, both sides agree. 262 00:27:43,887 --> 00:27:59,831 And so now without having legislation that passed our legislature, Mississippi has a religious exemption for vaccinations, which means that a parent can just say, my religion, 263 00:27:59,831 --> 00:28:05,934 my personal religion, my religious beliefs are that my child should not be vaccinated. 264 00:28:08,687 --> 00:28:12,632 There's not a list of approved religions. 265 00:28:13,104 --> 00:28:14,893 No, you can have your own religion. 266 00:28:15,925 --> 00:28:17,811 The religion of Jim Newman. 267 00:28:20,914 --> 00:28:21,856 That's right. 268 00:28:24,995 --> 00:28:36,686 I remember the days when Mississippi led the nation in vaccinations and we didn't have mumps, measles, rubella, any of that stuff. 269 00:28:37,467 --> 00:28:39,108 We just didn't have it. 270 00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:41,710 And we were the best state in the country. 271 00:28:43,112 --> 00:28:44,273 And we're not gonna be. 272 00:28:44,273 --> 00:28:46,140 ah 273 00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:48,633 we are seeing our vaccination rates decline. 274 00:28:48,633 --> 00:28:49,483 Yep. 275 00:28:50,204 --> 00:28:51,845 The public school. 276 00:28:53,227 --> 00:29:02,514 yeah, there's there's there's there probably not going to require ah all of the vaccinations that public schools do. 277 00:29:02,514 --> 00:29:04,595 ah 278 00:29:07,779 --> 00:29:10,484 in this upcoming legislature. 279 00:29:10,987 --> 00:29:11,969 Have we got any... 280 00:29:11,969 --> 00:29:13,331 ah 281 00:29:15,309 --> 00:29:18,455 senators or legislators that are on our side. 282 00:29:18,866 --> 00:29:21,146 Oh, most of them, yes. 283 00:29:21,146 --> 00:29:22,946 Yes, we f- 284 00:29:22,946 --> 00:29:24,130 going on? 285 00:29:26,204 --> 00:29:37,377 Well, um our legislature has defeated the voucher programs that have been introduced every single year. 286 00:29:37,377 --> 00:29:43,860 Multiple voucher provisions are introduced and those have been the large voucher programs have been defeated. 287 00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:48,011 legislators have stood up with their constituents. 288 00:29:48,011 --> 00:29:50,872 They know where their constituents stand on these issues. 289 00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:51,662 so, 290 00:29:52,259 --> 00:29:59,483 unlike most other states, Mississippi's legislators, I mean, we should be very proud of the fact that they have stood up. 291 00:29:59,864 --> 00:30:05,948 They are getting a lot of pressure to support this school choice movement. 292 00:30:05,948 --> 00:30:08,980 A lot of money is coming in from outside of the state. 293 00:30:08,980 --> 00:30:21,818 The voucher lobby uh is primarily funded from out of state and they are pouring money into the state and staffing up here to pressure 294 00:30:22,238 --> 00:30:32,145 legislators, are threatening to run opponents against them in the next election and fund their campaigns, that sort of thing. 295 00:30:32,525 --> 00:30:42,482 So that's why it is so important for us, for public school supporters, to support our legislators who are standing with us. 296 00:30:42,482 --> 00:30:44,713 And this is on both sides of the aisle. 297 00:30:44,713 --> 00:30:51,818 We wouldn't be winning this in Mississippi if we didn't have legislators on both sides of the aisle standing with us. 298 00:30:51,858 --> 00:31:04,078 And part of our job at the Parents Campaign is to let constituents know who these legislators are who are standing with their constituents so that they can support them, 299 00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:11,938 continue to reach out to them, ask, you know, we want our moms and dads reaching out to their legislators saying, how can I help you? 300 00:31:11,938 --> 00:31:16,398 I want to thank you for supporting us and we are standing with you. 301 00:31:16,398 --> 00:31:19,164 We want you to know how grateful we are for 302 00:31:19,164 --> 00:31:23,856 for your votes against these voucher provisions, against school choice. 303 00:31:23,856 --> 00:31:25,496 We are standing with you. 304 00:31:25,496 --> 00:31:27,637 We will continue to stand with you. 305 00:31:27,637 --> 00:31:29,478 Please continue to stand with us. 306 00:31:29,478 --> 00:31:32,299 um It's very, very important. 307 00:31:32,299 --> 00:31:40,521 And we actually have, the Parents Campaign has organizations in other states coming to us saying, how in the world are you doing this? 308 00:31:41,322 --> 00:31:41,642 And... 309 00:31:41,642 --> 00:31:42,762 um 310 00:31:43,313 --> 00:31:56,460 The answer is that we make sure that our moms and dads and teachers and concerned citizens in every corner of our state understand the importance of letting their legislators know 311 00:31:56,460 --> 00:32:06,335 that we're paying attention, that we recognize their support, and that we're going to stand with them and we are going to have their backs in the next election. 312 00:32:06,595 --> 00:32:12,298 When these school choice voucher proponents are coming after them. 313 00:32:12,314 --> 00:32:19,222 We know who they are and we are paying attention and we are going to stand with them. 314 00:32:21,145 --> 00:32:24,078 Kind of a switching gears here for a second. 315 00:32:24,078 --> 00:32:39,271 uh Also in the Mississippi today, ah you wrote an article from June the 24th about uh Trump's big, uh beautiful bill. 316 00:32:39,271 --> 00:32:48,621 uh tell us a little bit about that and how is this uh bill going to affect 317 00:32:48,621 --> 00:32:53,525 maybe school vouchers and or what how is it going to affect public education? 318 00:32:53,746 --> 00:32:55,877 Well, our focus was on just one provision. 319 00:32:55,877 --> 00:32:57,707 That bill was very, very broad. 320 00:32:57,707 --> 00:33:03,029 It was a budget reconciliation bill that covered all manner of things that we don't track. 321 00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:08,250 But there was a voucher provision written into that bill that we are concerned about. 322 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:23,654 So written into the bill was a provision that creates a federal tax credit voucher program that uh if a state opts in, and this is an annual opt in by the state, 323 00:33:23,794 --> 00:33:34,529 um We think probably the rules haven't all been written so the Department of Treasury, because it was a tax, this is budget bill, so the Department of Treasury will write the 324 00:33:34,529 --> 00:33:39,001 rules that uh better define the program. 325 00:33:39,001 --> 00:33:43,803 The language written into the bill itself was very sparse. 326 00:33:43,803 --> 00:33:45,764 It's not very well defined. 327 00:33:45,944 --> 00:33:47,734 a lot remains to be seen. 328 00:33:47,734 --> 00:33:50,823 It looks like the person 329 00:33:50,823 --> 00:33:56,405 who will decide whether or not the state, our state opts into the program will be the governor. 330 00:33:56,405 --> 00:34:06,809 uh What the law says is the governor or whoever state, your state law designates as the person to determine federal taxation issues. 331 00:34:06,809 --> 00:34:12,071 uh So I'm not aware of someone else that's designated to do that. 332 00:34:12,071 --> 00:34:19,954 uh So the governor will decide whether or not we will participate, whether or not Mississippi will participate. 333 00:34:20,362 --> 00:34:37,011 And if Mississippi does participate, then the governor will designate certain 501c3 organizations as um scholarship granting organizations, SGOs. 334 00:34:37,092 --> 00:34:48,548 These will be 501c3 organizations that will receive the tax credited donations and then decide which students will get those scholarships. 335 00:34:48,613 --> 00:34:50,518 Gee, David, we could apply. 336 00:34:51,218 --> 00:34:56,698 So, well you could, you'd probably have to go to school, but you could have gone. 337 00:34:57,418 --> 00:35:02,118 I'm not sure if that's what you want to do or not, but leave that up to you. 338 00:35:02,258 --> 00:35:18,598 So, an individual taxpayer is eligible for tax credits for donations up to $1,700 annually to these SGOs, and then the rules, again, 339 00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:33,494 much of the ruling hasn't been written yet and we're waiting to see but so far what was written into the bill was that the SGO, Scholarship Granting Organizations, must serve 10 340 00:35:33,494 --> 00:35:36,761 or more students. 341 00:35:36,761 --> 00:35:39,122 They can't give all the money to one student. 342 00:35:39,122 --> 00:35:44,445 They have to grant scholarships to 10 or more students and they can't all attend the same school. 343 00:35:44,445 --> 00:35:46,406 So two or more schools. 344 00:35:47,047 --> 00:35:56,276 and the scholarship granting organization must spend 90 % of the donations on scholarships so they can keep 10 % of it for themselves. 345 00:35:56,276 --> 00:36:03,053 uh And beyond that, can pretty much decide the size of the scholarships. 346 00:36:03,053 --> 00:36:04,975 They don't all have to be the same size. 347 00:36:04,975 --> 00:36:10,250 I they can pretty much write their own rules unless the Department of Treasury comes back and defines it further. 348 00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:15,423 And so that is something that we oppose, clearly, obviously, for obvious reasons. 349 00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:19,926 uh We oppose public money going to private schools. 350 00:36:19,926 --> 00:36:31,384 think what we believe is that any school that receives public funds, they all should go by the same rules. 351 00:36:31,384 --> 00:36:34,667 They all should be subject to the same rules. 352 00:36:34,667 --> 00:36:39,790 And it's so interesting that some of the proponents of school choice like to talk about 353 00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:46,144 competition and the benefits of competition, except that the rules are completely different. 354 00:36:46,144 --> 00:37:02,196 um You have, you know, what we're talking about is two, is this two publicly funded systems of education, one that is accountable to taxpayers for how they spend money. 355 00:37:02,196 --> 00:37:08,518 They are held to high academic standards and uh Mississippi's academic standards are 356 00:37:08,518 --> 00:37:10,779 are very rigorous compared to other states. 357 00:37:10,779 --> 00:37:15,231 They've been ah noted as such at the national level. 358 00:37:15,231 --> 00:37:21,643 So one that has, where the schools are held to high rigorous standards, where accountable, they're accountable to those standards. 359 00:37:21,643 --> 00:37:27,696 The public knows how well they're doing, moving students toward those standards. 360 00:37:27,696 --> 00:37:29,697 Every penny is scrutinized. 361 00:37:29,697 --> 00:37:31,157 They have audits. 362 00:37:31,157 --> 00:37:36,560 There are all these, and everything they do is open to public scrutiny. 363 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,140 They're board minutes. 364 00:37:38,925 --> 00:37:44,468 lesson plan, everything in a public school is budgets are open to public scrutiny. 365 00:37:44,468 --> 00:37:50,211 And then you have this other publicly funded group of schools that have no rules at all. 366 00:37:50,211 --> 00:37:56,354 can, and the public schools of course are open to every single child that lives within the district. 367 00:37:56,354 --> 00:37:58,656 They do not get to pick and choose their students. 368 00:37:58,656 --> 00:38:00,756 They're open to all children. 369 00:38:00,857 --> 00:38:07,080 And if they, for the children they serve who have special needs, federal law requires 370 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:13,122 that any accommodation that the student qualifies for must be provided by the public school. 371 00:38:13,443 --> 00:38:18,725 And remember that our constitution says that they cannot charge tuition. 372 00:38:18,745 --> 00:38:20,325 They must be free. 373 00:38:20,526 --> 00:38:24,787 So on the other side, you have these publicly funded schools that have no rules at all. 374 00:38:24,787 --> 00:38:26,548 They pick and choose the students. 375 00:38:26,548 --> 00:38:29,229 They only enroll the ones that they want. 376 00:38:29,229 --> 00:38:32,371 They can kick them out for any reason at any time. 377 00:38:32,371 --> 00:38:35,934 There is absolutely zero scrutiny of 378 00:38:35,934 --> 00:38:38,906 how they spend their money, how they make their decisions. 379 00:38:38,906 --> 00:38:44,009 Their boards are not open, their board meetings do not have to be open to the public. 380 00:38:44,009 --> 00:38:46,610 They don't have to provide any transportation. 381 00:38:46,610 --> 00:38:55,025 They can charge any tuition they want, including well above what a voucher would cover and they can raise. 382 00:38:55,025 --> 00:39:00,837 And in other states, that's what's happened is that they've raised their tuition sometimes by the amount of the voucher. 383 00:39:01,798 --> 00:39:05,210 So they have no rules that they follow. 384 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:10,123 A lot of a lot of double dipped dipping it appears. 385 00:39:10,123 --> 00:39:12,484 well, and it's a huge double standard. 386 00:39:12,484 --> 00:39:22,690 So who would create a publicly funded education system like that, where you have one set of schools that has all of these rules and regulations and accountability and the other 387 00:39:22,690 --> 00:39:23,890 with nothing? 388 00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:27,052 It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 389 00:39:27,052 --> 00:39:33,948 And because of that, because public schools are held to high standards and accountable to those standards, 390 00:39:33,948 --> 00:39:45,002 and private schools are not, there are some states that test their voucher students using the same state tests that the public schools students take. 391 00:39:45,002 --> 00:39:53,202 And in all of those instances, the public schools outperform the private schools, even though the private schools are picking and choosing their students. 392 00:39:53,426 --> 00:39:54,346 Got it. 393 00:39:54,447 --> 00:40:11,222 What are the things that you, and I know in the last conversation we had back in February, you are a big proponent and you love to talk about the success in public education in 394 00:40:11,222 --> 00:40:12,103 Mississippi. 395 00:40:12,103 --> 00:40:19,112 ah Tell us about what's, I think Mississippi had some gains recently, didn't we? 396 00:40:19,112 --> 00:40:21,073 We are so proud of our public schools. 397 00:40:21,073 --> 00:40:30,660 know, when we, when, and this is on national tests where we have apples to apples comparisons with all states and Department of Defense schools. 398 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:41,987 And, and you know, when those tests were first given back in 1992, Mississippi was so far behind, um way back in last, and last place. 399 00:40:42,168 --> 00:40:48,444 If you look at that trajectory, every year since then, we've been closing that gap. 400 00:40:48,444 --> 00:40:55,576 So, you know, a lot of people want you to believe that all of the progress has been made uh just in the last decade or so. 401 00:40:55,576 --> 00:40:56,746 And that's simply not true. 402 00:40:56,746 --> 00:40:59,147 We've been closing that gap for a long time. 403 00:40:59,147 --> 00:41:01,858 It took a long time for us to catch next to last. 404 00:41:01,858 --> 00:41:06,529 mean, we knew a way back, but in the last row. 405 00:41:06,529 --> 00:41:17,252 So our students are tested on these national tests in reading and math in grades uh four and eighth, fourth grade and eighth grade. 406 00:41:17,492 --> 00:41:21,312 And it's every other year that the test is given. 407 00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:24,572 So most recently, the test was given in 2024. 408 00:41:25,112 --> 00:41:34,032 And our test scores, our average test scores in Mississippi in fourth grade reading are now ninth in the country. 409 00:41:34,032 --> 00:41:36,732 And that includes Department of Defense schools. 410 00:41:36,732 --> 00:41:40,592 And so if you only look at states, we're eighth in the country. 411 00:41:40,592 --> 00:41:47,292 There are only seven states that have a higher average test scores than we do in fourth grade reading. 412 00:41:47,313 --> 00:41:51,924 We are 16th in math, in fourth grade math. 413 00:41:51,924 --> 00:41:54,365 there again, Department of Defense is one of those. 414 00:41:54,365 --> 00:42:01,757 If you look at only states, we're 15th, so only 14 states score higher than we do in math. 415 00:42:01,757 --> 00:42:04,458 We're so proud of that. 416 00:42:04,458 --> 00:42:08,189 Our teachers and students are doing such a good job. 417 00:42:08,189 --> 00:42:11,900 And again, they've been closing that gap for a really long time. 418 00:42:12,064 --> 00:42:17,109 And it's another reason that folks all across Mississippi are so proud of. 419 00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:19,571 They love their public schools. 420 00:42:19,571 --> 00:42:25,937 And as you all know, our public schools are the cornerstones of our communities. 421 00:42:25,937 --> 00:42:39,228 You know, there is there is absolutely no exception in Mississippi to the fact that where we have strong, thriving communities, we have strong, thriving public schools. 422 00:42:39,378 --> 00:42:43,550 And where we have struggling public schools, we have struggling communities. 423 00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:49,233 And so our city leaders have recognized this. 424 00:42:49,254 --> 00:42:58,859 They understand that the threat, that this school choice threat is not just to their public schools, it's to their cities. 425 00:42:58,859 --> 00:43:02,261 It's to their whole communities. 426 00:43:02,281 --> 00:43:07,974 And that is why I don't know if you all have heard this news, but we now have 427 00:43:08,172 --> 00:43:15,974 city municipal boards that are weighing in on this issue and adopting resolutions opposing school choice. 428 00:43:16,974 --> 00:43:27,677 So these resolutions have now passed in three municipal boards unanimously. 429 00:43:27,797 --> 00:43:37,310 Clinton, Pearl, and Florence have now passed resolutions opposing school choice and urging their delegations 430 00:43:37,310 --> 00:43:43,943 the state legislature and Governor Reeves to oppose school choice and to invest in public schools. 431 00:43:44,465 --> 00:43:49,624 Well, let me ask you, since they're doing that, oh excuse me. 432 00:43:51,581 --> 00:44:09,641 Are the rural communities, and I mean the really rural communities, are they getting enough funding to be included in this number nine and reading and number 14? 433 00:44:10,741 --> 00:44:14,221 Are they in that or are they struggling still? 434 00:44:14,221 --> 00:44:21,901 Because I've been to some of the schools in southern Lee County and 435 00:44:22,695 --> 00:44:26,210 their facilities need lots and lots of money. 436 00:44:26,632 --> 00:44:28,333 That's a wonderful point. 437 00:44:28,333 --> 00:44:36,660 And yes, and you know, there's some very interesting national research recently that shows how important facilities are to student achievement. 438 00:44:36,660 --> 00:44:43,525 That, you know, if you've got rain pouring in your roof and your heat and air don't work and your bathrooms don't work, it's very hard for children to learn. 439 00:44:43,525 --> 00:44:53,842 And so this is a huge issue and I'm glad that you bring this up, Jim, because uh the state of Mississippi does not provide any state funding for facilities. 440 00:44:54,428 --> 00:44:56,989 that is left to the local taxpayers. 441 00:44:56,989 --> 00:45:05,491 So local taxpayers have to pass bond issues to repair or renovate or build new facilities. 442 00:45:05,491 --> 00:45:14,594 And that is why you see such terrible discrepancies across the state in the quality of facilities. 443 00:45:14,934 --> 00:45:22,776 I personally believe that it is an issue that the legislature needs to address if they want to make sure that 444 00:45:22,776 --> 00:45:30,139 Every Mississippi child has an equal opportunity to get a terrific education. 445 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,512 Our schools, even those rural schools, are truly doing a very, very good job. 446 00:45:36,512 --> 00:45:41,644 They have improved dramatically over the years. 447 00:45:41,644 --> 00:45:48,676 We now only have, I believe it's three school districts that are rated F out of 140. 448 00:45:48,676 --> 00:45:50,188 ah 449 00:45:50,695 --> 00:45:56,387 And so we our school districts have really come a long way and are doing very well. 450 00:45:56,387 --> 00:46:01,489 But these facility, this facilities issue is a big one and it makes a big difference. 451 00:46:01,629 --> 00:46:17,595 Our our funding per student that districts get our school funding formula is a very equitable formula and it does account for uh the circumstances and needs of students and 452 00:46:17,595 --> 00:46:19,666 individual school districts. 453 00:46:19,784 --> 00:46:32,771 For example, districts with high poverty rates get additional funding for that because we know that children who grow up in homes that don't have a lot of resources to provide them 454 00:46:32,771 --> 00:46:41,176 in terms of print materials or maybe a high quality pre-K education and that sort of thing start out behind and need some additional help in school to catch up and level the playing 455 00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:42,116 field. 456 00:46:42,116 --> 00:46:44,978 Children with special needs need additional funding. 457 00:46:44,978 --> 00:46:49,520 um There are lots of different reasons why 458 00:46:49,618 --> 00:46:56,574 Districts might, children who don't speak English and need help learning our language so that they can learn well. 459 00:46:56,574 --> 00:47:01,678 School districts need extra resources to provide that level of education for those children. 460 00:47:01,678 --> 00:47:11,746 And our funding formula does a good job of providing for those individual needs, but we do not do a good job on the facilities front. 461 00:47:11,746 --> 00:47:19,528 And as you say, the discrepancy is very real and um it's disappointing that we 462 00:47:19,528 --> 00:47:32,634 that we would be okay with Mississippi children going to school in facilities where the heat and air units don't work or the bathrooms aren't operational or the roof leaks. 463 00:47:32,634 --> 00:47:37,986 mean, that's third world stuff and we should not be okay with that. 464 00:47:38,071 --> 00:47:53,851 I've been in a classroom where it was raining and there were buckets to catch the water and the bathroom facilities were rusted and kids don't get good educations. 465 00:47:54,451 --> 00:47:57,353 They get the attitude that nobody cares. 466 00:47:58,131 --> 00:48:00,302 It's a terrible message to send our children. 467 00:48:00,302 --> 00:48:01,642 It really is. 468 00:48:01,642 --> 00:48:09,625 And those communities want to provide for their children, but we have places in Mississippi where a mill just doesn't produce enough. 469 00:48:09,786 --> 00:48:22,091 They could pass a bond issue and it would never raise enough money to provide the kind of maintenance that they need on their facilities or certainly not build a new facility. 470 00:48:22,091 --> 00:48:25,912 So I think in those cases, the state should step in and help. 471 00:48:25,989 --> 00:48:35,516 Yeah, there's, I mean, we've got so many small towns that do not have a big enough tax base that they need extra help. 472 00:48:36,477 --> 00:48:46,924 And it seems to me that the state does not make any exceptions for those particular cases, but they need to because. 473 00:48:46,936 --> 00:48:57,664 to and saying, oh, we'll let them go to a different school district if their parents can provide their transportation over there every morning and every afternoon. 474 00:48:57,664 --> 00:49:10,264 I mean, you know, you're just, that is such an absurd uh way to pretend that we are addressing struggling schools is to say, yes, parents, if you can transport your children 475 00:49:10,264 --> 00:49:13,106 twice a day to and from school, 476 00:49:13,106 --> 00:49:14,917 We'll let you go somewhere else. 477 00:49:14,917 --> 00:49:23,920 We're going to leave all these other children over here in a facility that is disgraceful, but we're going to pat ourselves on the back and pretend that we've done something great 478 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,300 for children who are in struggling schools. 479 00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:30,842 It is insincere and it is just absurd. 480 00:49:30,842 --> 00:49:37,555 And to think that those children are A, going to be admitted into a private school or 481 00:49:37,555 --> 00:49:43,709 B, be able to pay the difference between what a voucher would pay and the tuition that is charged. 482 00:49:43,709 --> 00:49:54,236 Or C, be able to find a private school that will meet their children's special needs or the needs that they have for intervention or whatever it is. 483 00:49:55,037 --> 00:49:56,758 That's just not reality. 484 00:49:56,758 --> 00:50:01,971 And that's what we're seeing in these other states that pass these school choice provisions. 485 00:50:01,971 --> 00:50:06,302 What we are seeing in other states is it's a boon for more fluent parents. 486 00:50:06,302 --> 00:50:08,954 who already have their children in private schools. 487 00:50:08,954 --> 00:50:21,893 In states that pass these voucher programs, overwhelmingly, the vouchers are going to families whose children already were enrolled in the private schools before the voucher 488 00:50:21,893 --> 00:50:22,903 law passed. 489 00:50:22,903 --> 00:50:32,770 So the state is just writing a check to pay the tuition of kids who were already in private schools and whose parents already had the means to pay for that private school. 490 00:50:32,770 --> 00:50:36,132 The state sees no benefit at all. 491 00:50:36,136 --> 00:50:37,859 There's no change. 492 00:50:38,021 --> 00:50:44,076 They're just writing a check to pay the tuition of a child who was already attending private school. 493 00:50:44,221 --> 00:50:59,741 One of the things I've heard, I don't know whether you have, but what I've heard more than once is that many of the private schools, the student population is made up of anywhere 494 00:50:59,741 --> 00:51:02,841 from 25 to 50 % scholarships. 495 00:51:04,281 --> 00:51:06,186 And I don't know those numbers. 496 00:51:06,186 --> 00:51:07,077 I don't know that. 497 00:51:07,077 --> 00:51:13,122 I didn't know whether you'd heard anything or had any of those facts. 498 00:51:13,363 --> 00:51:19,298 But even if they're on scholarships, they receive a voucher. 499 00:51:21,539 --> 00:51:22,421 Yes. 500 00:51:22,504 --> 00:51:23,445 Yes. 501 00:51:23,770 --> 00:51:24,433 Yes. 502 00:51:24,433 --> 00:51:25,082 Yes. 503 00:51:25,082 --> 00:51:27,205 call that a scholarship, but 504 00:51:31,266 --> 00:51:46,477 The uh Nancy, the last time you're here, we also talked about the Tim Tebow Act uh allowing home school students to participate in extracurricular activities and sports. 505 00:51:46,477 --> 00:51:49,320 What's the latest on that? 506 00:51:50,064 --> 00:52:03,514 That is a provision that is still being pushed by the school choice proponents, uh but it is something that is widely uh opposed in Mississippi by voters. 507 00:52:03,695 --> 00:52:10,920 What the bill does is allow children who are being homeschooled to attend, to participate in public school activities. 508 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:16,224 And the problem with that is, well, there are several problems with that. 509 00:52:16,404 --> 00:52:20,025 One problem with that, a primary problem with that is that uh 510 00:52:20,025 --> 00:52:32,265 Public school children are required to maintain a 2.0 grade point average to be able to participate in extracurricular activities to make sure that the number one priority is 511 00:52:32,265 --> 00:52:33,526 academics. 512 00:52:33,727 --> 00:52:46,678 And so if you're letting homeschooled children whose parents are grading their papers um participate, you clearly do not have a level playing field in regard to that rule. 513 00:52:46,678 --> 00:52:48,611 um 514 00:52:48,611 --> 00:53:03,303 The other thing is that for coaches, there can be an issue where, know, um if this is a child who is enrolled in your school, they're in school all day long, you know the 515 00:53:03,303 --> 00:53:05,465 parents, you have a relationship with their parents. 516 00:53:05,465 --> 00:53:17,595 um It's just easier to have everybody kind of understanding the rules, understanding how your school operates, the expectations. 517 00:53:17,955 --> 00:53:30,061 We're talking about kids putting on a jersey and representing your school, but not wanting to participate in anything else that your school does, only the sport that he or she wants 518 00:53:30,061 --> 00:53:31,202 to play. 519 00:53:31,202 --> 00:53:41,997 And so it also just kind of creates some issues there for the coaches with expectations and discipline and that sort of thing. 520 00:53:42,310 --> 00:53:59,944 But the other thing that is very worrisome to me about particularly about that 2.0 grade point average requirement is that it actually incentivizes struggling students to drop out 521 00:53:59,944 --> 00:54:07,486 of school because in Mississippi there is no regulation at all of homeschooling. 522 00:54:08,126 --> 00:54:12,409 The only thing a parent has to do to homeschool a child 523 00:54:12,409 --> 00:54:19,421 is to fill out a few lines on a form at the Department of Education saying, I'm going to homeschool my child. 524 00:54:20,521 --> 00:54:26,743 There doesn't have to be any evidence at all that there is any academic preparation taking place, none. 525 00:54:26,743 --> 00:54:28,643 They don't even have to pretend. 526 00:54:28,643 --> 00:54:33,685 They just fill out a form saying, I'm gonna homeschool my child. 527 00:54:34,285 --> 00:54:41,167 So if you've got a child who is struggling but wants to play that sport, um 528 00:54:41,167 --> 00:54:44,229 the incentive would be just drop out of school. 529 00:54:44,229 --> 00:54:47,420 Just have your parents sign a form saying you're gonna be homeschooled. 530 00:54:47,420 --> 00:54:48,731 They don't really have to do anything. 531 00:54:48,731 --> 00:54:50,572 They don't have to be home with you. 532 00:54:50,792 --> 00:54:54,214 And you can still stay on that team and keep your spot. 533 00:54:54,674 --> 00:55:06,691 And so I worry about that because we hear from folks who deal with children who've been abandoned, who've children. 534 00:55:06,691 --> 00:55:11,033 Unfortunately, you know, we do have situations in Mississippi where 535 00:55:11,289 --> 00:55:14,400 Children don't get the care that they need at home. 536 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:31,388 And I have heard from multiple people who are engaged with those children in a variety of ways that many of the children of the neglect cases that they see are children who have 537 00:55:31,388 --> 00:55:38,911 had parents fill out a form saying that they're being homeschooled and those children are receiving no education whatsoever at home. 538 00:55:39,184 --> 00:55:47,591 Their parents are just tired of dealing with maybe there's a discipline issue in the school or whatever that the parents are tired of dealing with. 539 00:55:47,591 --> 00:55:54,556 And so they just check their kids out and say, we're going to homeschool, but the kids are getting nothing. 540 00:55:54,937 --> 00:56:00,481 And as we see the homeschool numbers escalate, we're seeing more and more cases like that. 541 00:56:00,481 --> 00:56:03,043 Your public school teachers can tell you. 542 00:56:03,045 --> 00:56:07,568 that they know a lot of those kids and they know what the history is in those cases. 543 00:56:07,568 --> 00:56:09,560 And it's very, very sad. 544 00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,321 And for some of these children, it's dangerous. 545 00:56:12,582 --> 00:56:24,721 And um it worries me that we would pass a law that would say, hey, if you want to drop out of school, you can just pretend you're homeschooling and we'll still let you participate 546 00:56:24,721 --> 00:56:27,112 in the activities and have all the fun. 547 00:56:27,115 --> 00:56:30,447 I think that is a very dangerous road for us to go down. 548 00:56:30,447 --> 00:56:34,595 And it's not fair to the kids in the public schools who are playing by the rules. 549 00:56:34,916 --> 00:56:38,856 Well, it's not fair to the kids that are being homeschooled either. 550 00:56:39,066 --> 00:56:40,009 It's not. 551 00:56:40,408 --> 00:56:47,011 because they're being taken advantage of ah because they're really not getting educated. 552 00:56:47,759 --> 00:56:59,836 we wrap it up, Nancy, it's been so good to see you again and ah for you to come and share your information with us. 553 00:56:59,836 --> 00:57:02,838 What is, let me start all over. 554 00:57:02,838 --> 00:57:14,654 ah What do you need from us and what do you need from the parents and what do you need for our 555 00:57:14,904 --> 00:57:24,104 uh leaders, ah what do you need from them, from all of us to help save public education? 556 00:57:24,367 --> 00:57:36,147 So we need to make sure that legislators understand that their constituents oppose school choice, that they support strong investments in public schools, fully funded public 557 00:57:36,147 --> 00:57:43,082 schools, uh decent facilities for every child, high quality pre-K experiences for our children. 558 00:57:43,082 --> 00:57:49,648 And the only way that legislators are going to know that for sure is if our folks call them. 559 00:57:49,648 --> 00:57:53,450 They need to hear from their constituents at home. 560 00:57:54,180 --> 00:58:00,782 especially encourage our folks who know that their legislators are supporters of public schools. 561 00:58:00,782 --> 00:58:03,102 Please don't take them for granted. 562 00:58:03,102 --> 00:58:04,683 Let them hear from you. 563 00:58:04,683 --> 00:58:14,705 They need to know that you recognize their support and that you are standing with them and that as this voucher lobby is coming after them, you will have their backs. 564 00:58:14,705 --> 00:58:18,266 We encourage cities to pass these resolutions. 565 00:58:18,266 --> 00:58:24,115 We encourage people to write opinion pieces in their newspapers in support. 566 00:58:24,115 --> 00:58:34,334 of public schools and opposing school choice, and call the governor, the speaker of the house, the lieutenant governor, and by all means, call your legislators. 567 00:58:34,334 --> 00:58:40,250 And if you want to know how to reach them, go on our website at msparentscampaign.org. 568 00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:49,918 We've got a webpage for each school district that has all of your legislators who represent your school district and their contact information and their voting records. 569 00:58:49,918 --> 00:58:51,379 um 570 00:58:51,535 --> 00:58:52,596 But let them hear from you. 571 00:58:52,596 --> 00:58:55,527 And if you have questions about that, us. 572 00:58:55,527 --> 00:58:57,619 can Google a parent's campaign. 573 00:58:57,619 --> 00:58:59,681 You'll find us and give us a call. 574 00:58:59,681 --> 00:59:11,148 And we would love to engage you in what we are doing to support your public schools and those terrific legislators who year after year after year have been shutting down the 575 00:59:11,148 --> 00:59:15,106 school choice movement and deserve our thanks and praise. 576 00:59:15,106 --> 00:59:18,124 Can parents join the parents campaign? 577 00:59:18,447 --> 00:59:22,991 All they have to do is sign up to get our notifications or follow us on social media. 578 00:59:22,991 --> 00:59:25,854 There's no cost for any of our services. 579 00:59:25,854 --> 00:59:35,192 We are nonpartisan and we are a nonprofit organization that we're funded through donations and that sort of thing. 580 00:59:35,192 --> 00:59:40,587 And so there's no cost to participate, but we would love to have folks join our effort. 581 00:59:41,070 --> 00:59:41,391 Good. 582 00:59:41,391 --> 00:59:44,788 I've enjoyed it and I've learned a lot. 583 00:59:45,765 --> 00:59:47,151 Well, I've loved being with you. 584 00:59:47,151 --> 00:59:47,780 Thank you. 585 00:59:47,780 --> 00:59:48,732 Ha 586 00:59:49,496 --> 00:59:57,736 All right, Jim, we need to talk a little bit about something else that's a subject very dear to your heart. 587 00:59:58,052 --> 00:59:59,032 very dear to my heart. 588 00:59:59,032 --> 01:00:05,055 It's because I have to write you a check every month for these podcasts to continue. 589 01:00:05,055 --> 01:00:27,754 ah Yes, folks, podcasts do cost money and we have a few contributors, not nearly enough to cover the total expense, but David and I seem to always come through and make it up. 590 01:00:27,982 --> 01:00:35,218 but we would encourage anybody that would like to donate because they think what we're doing is worthwhile. 591 01:00:35,218 --> 01:00:37,699 We are a 501C3. 592 01:00:37,699 --> 01:00:44,214 It is a tax-exempt donation and David can tell you how you can get us the money. 593 01:00:45,381 --> 01:00:50,405 And just for clarification, those checks are made out to Mississippi Happenings. 594 01:00:50,405 --> 01:00:58,332 ah Yes, uh there's several ways that you could donate. 595 01:00:58,332 --> 01:01:00,754 And yes, we do want you to subscribe. 596 01:01:00,754 --> 01:01:02,375 Yes, we do want sponsors. 597 01:01:02,375 --> 01:01:06,659 And yes, donations are extremely uh appreciated. 598 01:01:06,659 --> 01:01:08,521 uh We have a cash app. 599 01:01:08,521 --> 01:01:12,824 It's uh the dollar sign Mississippi Happenings. 600 01:01:13,024 --> 01:01:16,525 We have a PayPal, is at Ms. 601 01:01:16,525 --> 01:01:17,236 At Ms. 602 01:01:17,236 --> 01:01:17,926 Happenings. 603 01:01:17,926 --> 01:01:27,450 ah And yes, we also, you can also now make donations on our website, which is Mshappenings.org. 604 01:01:27,450 --> 01:01:29,611 So yes, we would love to hear from you. 605 01:01:29,611 --> 01:01:34,693 oh Yes, as far as donations, but we do want to hear from you. 606 01:01:34,693 --> 01:01:42,996 We want to hear uh things that you like about our program, things you don't like about our program, things that are just. 607 01:01:43,212 --> 01:01:47,776 So, we do want to hear from you. 608 01:01:47,776 --> 01:02:01,628 the next uh probably I think the next episode we are going to talk uh in depth with Kat O'Shea and she's going to share with us uh Trump's big beautiful bill which we talked 609 01:02:01,628 --> 01:02:06,531 briefly today but she's going to go and break it down for us as well. 610 01:02:06,612 --> 01:02:08,533 So thank you for listening. 611 01:02:08,533 --> 01:02:09,334 Thank you for being here. 612 01:02:09,334 --> 01:02:12,016 Thank you for watching and as always 613 01:02:12,193 --> 01:02:15,563 May we never become indifferent to the suffering of others. 614 01:02:15,563 --> 01:02:16,531 Thanks so much.