WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.000 Hey friend, listen. I know the world is scary right now. Corruption, war, inflation, demographics, 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:17.000 degeneracy, disease, unrest, hatred and despair. We didn't come here to tell you how it is. 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.000 But that it's going to get way better. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:27.000 We got a good thing coming. And it's all I need. Everything I wanted. Just wait and see. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.000 Better. Bye Bitcoin. 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.000 Nice. I like that one. 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.000 So good. 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.000 Let's go. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.000 So good. 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:44.000 It changed my, all my gamma settings are different now. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.000 Ah. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.000 That's fucking weird. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 That's just because you're gay. 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:55.000 Fuck you StreamYard. Fuck you man. I lit this intentionally and now it's all fucked up. 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.000 Great way to start off Pride Month. So Bitcoin 2025 happened. 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.000 Oh God. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.000 I take offense to that JD. I'm gay. 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.000 Oh man. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:13.000 I'm so gay. You're so, you're so rude to me. You don't know how hard it is being gay. 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Had the great pleasure of hanging out with Bondor and Zach over there in Vegas. 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.000 It was good. There was a lot of cool stuff that we got to see. 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:36.000 It was very privileged to find somebody willing to shill me a very inexpensive way to get into some different places and different parties and different rooms. 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:39.000 It was fun. 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.000 Yeah. I'm curious y'all's takes. 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:52.000 I think trying to get into kind of a recap of what we saw, what we wish we hadn't seen, what we wish we had seen more of. 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:56.000 I think maybe that's the goal of this chat today. 00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:05.000 And I would also say probably the most, you know, interesting thing to start with would be, you know, bond. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:09.000 You know, you guys were there. 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:12.000 Believe in the smallest amount of times. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:18.000 Like, what did you see in the short amount of time you were there? Like, this was great. This was terrible. 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:21.000 I mean, really just walking into the conference floor. 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.000 I was like, this is an attack on Bitcoin. 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.000 This is straight up an attack on Bitcoin. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:33.000 But, you know, I don't think that's what the conference was about, obviously. 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:39.000 Like, I think that all of the value and, J.D., you've beat this into my head. 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.000 I did not go to conferences forever. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.000 I was like, no, conferences are stupid. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:50.000 Like, let's centralize all the things about a decentralized system. 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.000 So, for me, going to the conference is like, it's all about you meet the people. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.000 You, like, get FaceTime. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:57.000 And that's it. 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.000 You don't even need to go. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.000 You don't even need to attend the conference to do that. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.000 Walking into the conference floor is like, this is just corporate takeover of Bitcoin. 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:12.000 We're like, I think, Zach, you said at one point, it was like, or I brought it up. 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:19.000 I was like, man, all the treasury company stuff and all the other stuff that's happening in Bitcoin is just like, 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.000 a little bit depressing. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:34.000 And, Zach, you were like, yeah, if Bitcoin can't, you know, beat this, well, then what are we doing here? 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.000 Yeah. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.000 Yeah. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:40.000 So, there's, yeah. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.000 That's the, I think that's the cool thing about Bitcoin. 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:59.000 It's like, it really, it kind of ends up being whatever you want it to be, you know, like within the confines of, you know, maintaining credibility with the 21 million and decentralization. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:15.000 But, you know, if it can't withstand Wall Street and it can't withstand the corporatization and it can't withstand, you know, the insane leverage that we're probably going to see blasted onto it here, then it was never, then it wasn't going to win anyway. 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.000 So, we have to go through this. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:27.000 We have to allow it the opportunity to take these challenges on. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.000 And if it fails, you know, we're fucked anyway. 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.000 So, I'm ready for Bitcoin to succeed here. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.000 We're all going to be going to Vegas for different reasons next time. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.000 I'll be moving to Vegas. 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:55.000 Yeah, I think the most interesting thing for me, though, is, you know, even in the middle of, you know, a conference that a lot of people would call Shitcoin 2025, and there was a lot of that. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:02.000 There is still an opportunity to find some high signal just to kind of depending on who you're kind of around. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:07.000 I think my stuff is going wild today. 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:18.000 I don't really know why, but what the conferences continue to remind me is meet space is really where real work gets done. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.000 Yep. Period. 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.000 You know, as Twitter spaces is also great. 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.000 I actually think spaces is probably number two. 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.000 It's like meet space and then spaces. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:47.000 And then right under spaces, I would probably put, you know, everything else, because there really is nothing that can be just shaking somebody's hand or having lunch, you know, breaking bread, sharing a drink or whatever, because you just don't lose nuance, right? 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:49.000 You know, if you're just sending somebody a text, you lose everything. 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.000 You lose all the nuance. 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:51.000 You lose tone. 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:52.000 You lose intonation. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:56.000 And I think that was the big thing that was just like a constant reminder for me. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.000 And this is there. 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.000 There is a lot of value in going to live events. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.000 I'm not going to say this conference, but just like live events in general. 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:07.000 So I would highly recommend like meet, you know, meetups and things like that. 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000 But it's. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000 Yeah. 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.000 Yeah. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000 Good, good. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:20.000 Yeah, I was just going to say the last piece is, you know, the biggest thing that I'm getting served up right now is like AI stuff and like Mirage. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.000 I literally just saw this before I jumped on here, this Mirage thing. 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.000 I don't even know anything about it, but it's wild. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:31.000 We're getting to this point, which is what we talked about last week, where the Internet is going to become the dead Internet. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:37.000 And AI is going to be the mass, you know, the majority of all the traffic online. 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:46.000 But what Bitcoin does in that context is it makes it really, really ineffective, inefficient and expensive to lie. 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.000 And so we're going to get to a place where, you know, it's going to come back around. 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:57.000 But the pendulum's got to swing all the way to the this is terrible before we can swing back to like, OK, you know, some form of sanity again. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:04.000 Yeah. And then, you know, just the meat space stuff is meat space stuff is really what it's all about. 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:12.000 We've basically been on this whatever 30 year more, more, more, more Internet, more computer time, more screen time, like more, more, more. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.000 And now it's just going to be AI is just going to gut all that. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.000 It's going to be all about the meat space and human interaction. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.000 Yep. I couldn't agree more. 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:30.000 Like proof of work. You know, you've got you've got you've got two domains that we all kind of occupy and that Bitcoin occupies. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:35.000 You've got you've got the Akashic realm, the informational realm, and you've got the physical realm. 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.000 And, you know, they both need each other. They're both important. 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:46.000 But the value is always in the physical realm. That's the proof of work implementation. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:53.000 You know, talk is cheap, right? This is why talk is cheap, because doing shit is harder than saying shit. 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:02.000 And, you know, look, I honestly like I think anybody who's sitting on the sidelines talking shit about the convention, like just sell your Bitcoin. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.000 Honestly, like give me a fucking break, dude. 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.000 Yeah. Do something. Do something. 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:17.000 Yeah. You know, like you have no you know, look, of course, this is how the world works, right? 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.000 People go sell their shit at a giant market where everybody's interested in what's going on. 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.000 Like that's not this isn't shit coining. This isn't like mine. 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:30.000 And honestly, like I don't even see a bunch of shit coining on the conference floor. 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:38.000 There is that was one thing that actually I did notice is I was like, whoa, this is I was expecting like booth after booth after booth of like, hey, and join our new token. 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:43.000 We got a presale, blah, blah, blah. And like, just like I didn't go to Miami. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:47.000 But as I understand, Miami was three years ago. Yes. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:57.000 Yeah. It's literally it's almost entirely dominated by Bitcoin, Bitcoin related companies, Bitcoin related mining, like just all sorts of stuff. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:01.000 Like, honestly, OK, I mean, there's a whole bunch of speakers. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.000 Right. Yeah. There's a whole bunch of speakers who are all total shit coiners and they're peddling their stuff. 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:10.000 But like there was no people who were like, oh, we're here to sell tokens, or at least I didn't see it. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:14.000 I mean, I was there for two hours, but yeah, no, it was pretty tight. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:22.000 The biggest shit coiner there was steak and shake, steak and shake really need to be pushed out of the Bitcoin ecosystem. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.000 They sell garbage product that the CEO might be orange pilled. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:31.000 If you're watching this, like get your get your shit together, bro, your fries. 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:37.000 What? Like, bro, this I would rather order McDonald's is the most fiat fucking shit I've ever eaten. 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:44.000 It was terrible. Other than that, honestly, pretty high signal. 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:49.000 The steak and shake fries were by far the shit coiniest thing. 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:54.000 But they do. They don't do telephone. They they fry it in tallow. 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.000 But it's like already pre fried in a bunch of communism. So great. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.000 It's basically useless. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:07.000 I was wondering where the color came from. It's just the lack of color, the like off white. 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:14.000 I died seven years ago and somebody filled me with the fucking embalming liquid like that's what we're like. 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:19.000 God, it's funny that. But seriously, like the conference is fantastic. 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:27.000 Bitcoin is fantastic. I absolutely fucking love roaming around, running into people that I know and love and respect. 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:34.000 Like J.D. was saying, you can't you can't you can't recreate that tempo. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.000 You can't recreate the speed of ideation. 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:42.000 You can't recreate the energy of a bunch of people there for the same thing that they're all excited about. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.000 It's it's great. Like, it's great. It should happen. 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:49.000 There's just an insane amount of stuff happening that's not on the conference floor. 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 That's in all of the little meetings that people are having. 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.000 They're talking with one another. Yeah. Building their ideating. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:59.000 They're coming up with products. They're coming up with solutions that you probably won't even see for another two or three or four years. 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:07.000 We are so fucking early in this. Bitcoin is the most interesting thing happening on the planet. 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:15.000 And if you don't think that you're wrong, you're flat out fucking uninformed about everything. 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:22.000 It's true. I'm sorry. Like you need to get your shit together and you need to figure it out. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.000 Now, that being said, I do have somewhat of a hot take. 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:37.000 I think that the Bitcoin community, as it pertains to the Bitcoin conference, is going to experience a hard fork sometime in the next five years. 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:43.000 I do think that there will be a group of people who spin off a Bitcoin conference. 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:48.000 The they will get sick of the corporatization. They will get sick of Vegas. 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.000 Like Vegas is cool, like the first time, maybe next year it will be kind of cool. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.000 But like at a certain point, Vegas really isn't the venue for this. 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:58.000 Vegas is like – It's way too fiat. 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:06.000 Yeah. Vegas is the shit coin of – it's the mother asshole from which all shit coins come from, to quote our dear friend Safe. 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.000 Don't know him. Not my dear friend. 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:18.000 But I do think there's going to be a hard fork, and I do think that the corporatization and popularity will – like anything, right? 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:25.000 Like Reddit used to be awesome back in the day, and then it was overrun by either bots or just absolute fucking morons. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.000 So the cool people bail. They want to go find another spot to hang out with each other. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:40.000 And Bitcoin culture will probably go somewhat underground in a social hard fork before 2030, I would say for sure. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.000 Yeah. 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.000 Go ahead, G. 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.000 I just say – I think that's a number. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:58.000 I think the number is 250 also, because I think once Bitcoin crosses a quarter million bucks, there is a psychological change and shift that's going to happen to normies. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.000 That is going to be pretty catastrophic in my mind. 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:12.000 I think that that is a really simple – I was listening to Bitcoin Today this morning, and Gary Cardone and a couple other people were talking. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:22.000 But they were talking about a marketplace for bonds and bonds being a quarter – or what is it? Half a quadrillion. 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.000 So it's like they're not saying 500 trillion. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.000 They're saying half a quadrillion is what they're saying. 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:36.000 And what was interesting about that is it's the way we psychologically parse things. 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.000 Because if you say half a quadrillion, you think quadrillion. 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:40.000 It's all marketing, right? 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:46.000 I used to work in retail, and the reason something is $7.99 is because it makes you think $8. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:51.000 So it makes you feel like you're getting a value, even though you're saving a penny. 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:56.000 It's like I'm getting $8 of value for something I'm only spending $7.99 for. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.000 It's literally a psychological thing that they do. 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:03.000 But the ramifications of that are huge. 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:17.000 And so once Bitcoin crosses the quarter-million-dollar mark – because that's what it will be referred to as, a quarter-million-dollar – versus $250,000, it's going to start being seen as a million-dollar asset. 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.000 And that is when I think things get really interesting really fast. 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:30.000 Because I do think the wick up that Dr. Jeff and all these people are talking about – Dr. Jeff is saying by the end of the year – or rather something I saw earlier – by the end of the year, he still thinks $450,000 is in play. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.000 And I totally agree with that. 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:39.000 I think if we cross the quarter-million-dollar mark at some point in time, we see the spike up to $450,000 very fast. 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:45.000 And at that point in time, that's when it doesn't matter if you have 0.1 of a Bitcoin or more than that. 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.000 You need to start looking over your shoulder. 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.000 Because there's going to be people who – and it's like, you know, we're in a podcast. 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.000 Put our faces out there. 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.000 We're retards. 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.000 Retards. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:55.000 Retards. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:05.000 But it's about what you were just saying – and this goes back to the beginning of this – is, you know, the meat space is where work can get done. 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:11.000 And starting these relationships now, if you really want to be in the Bitcoin ecosystem, is that important. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.000 So it is that important to get out there and, you know, be rubbing shoulders with people. 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:25.000 So then that way when Bitcoin is a reserve asset for the entire world and you want to have a hand in trying to make it last for generations, you can do that. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.000 Because you know the people to call or it's like, hey, how can I pitch in? 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.000 And people know how to call you. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:38.000 I think, Zach, you had an interesting hot take of it's going to split. 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:44.000 I think there's something to that because it was, what, 35,000 people at the conference? 00:15:44.000 --> 00:16:00.000 And with 35,000 people at the conference and these huge megabillion – not megabillions – like multiple billions of dollars of capital like on the floor of the conference like going through and, hey, we're going to sell you. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.000 We got all these lending platforms now. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:06.000 We got all these like Bitcoin treasury companies, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:14.000 All this stuff going on and you're like, it feels like Wall Street's in now. 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.000 I mean, that should be pretty obvious, right? 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:25.000 But then it's all – the only thing that matters to Wall Street is like the things that only matter to Wall Street, right, which is just make as much money as possible. 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.000 It doesn't matter who you destroy in the process, right? 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.000 It's just Wall Street all over again. 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.000 And it's like, okay. 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:39.000 I mean maybe that's what Dave Bailey and co. wants for Bitcoin. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:43.000 They clearly want the politics, right? 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:51.000 They invite and have political speakers that are literally actual politicians like the vice president and the president coming to these conferences. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.000 They're also actually Wall Street now, right? 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.000 They're major players in publicly traded companies. 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.000 So they are Wall Street. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.000 Yeah. 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.000 And so there is this – it's like, oh, yeah, cool. 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000 We got the money narrative nailed. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.000 We can make all the money. 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.000 Oh, you can do all the money, all the money. 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:17.000 And it's like, well, as you guys are well aware, Bitcoin is like so much bigger than that. 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:21.000 It's the problems we can solve about reality. 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.000 And it really feels like, okay, cool. 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:29.000 All these people who came to Bitcoin to – I don't know. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:34.000 I'm not saying like Bailey and co. have done all this or that this is them. 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.000 But it feels like there's a certain level of I came to Bitcoin. 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.000 I was an outcast and like I'm not the outcast anymore. 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.000 Now I'm the insider. 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.000 We have conquered. 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.000 We did it, right? 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000 We're the insiders. 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.000 We're the ones. 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.000 And so when you look at that narrative and you're like, yeah, but that's just all – it's all still fiat. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:00.000 Like we're all still operating like total fiat mindset of like great. 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:05.000 They weren't like – all the quintillionaires like, oh, I want to be the quintillionaire. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.000 No, I'm the quintillionaire. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.000 I'm the insider. 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.000 Cool. 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.000 Yeah, we did it. 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.000 But it's like, no, no, no. 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.000 You haven't actually broken anything. 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.000 You just replaced the old system. 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:19.000 And so one of the thoughts I have coming out of the conference is we've been in phase one. 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:22.000 I think phase one is kind of like played out, right? 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.000 It's not going to – like what else are we going to do, take over Wall Street again? 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.000 Like, well, no. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Yeah, I think Vegas 2025 is the end of book one. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.000 I agree with that. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.000 Three or four part trilogy. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.000 Yeah. 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.000 I think also next year they're kind of signaling that, right? 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:50.000 The tickets changed from like an industry pass, which is now called a pro pass, but went from $1,500 to $600. 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.000 And like the normal ticket went from I think it was like $150 to $200. 00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:02.000 It's like they've done a price disparity, but now the whale tickets are $7,777. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.000 Why I think that's – 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.000 The normie tickets are free for the first couple of days if you're able to get that. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.000 They were, yeah. 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:14.000 So what that signals to me is this is a numbers game. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:19.000 Like Bailey & Co. need this to be 80,000 to 100,000 people. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:24.000 Like that's their goal is literally just to flood the zone, to make it unignorable. 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.000 And so I understand why they raised the price of the whale ticket, 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:34.000 but I think it's going to be an interesting fork to use that term 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.000 because I think it's going to actually change things. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:41.000 It's going to mean that the people that are in that whale room are not going to be plebs anymore. 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.000 You're not going to have – unless they're speaking and unless they're kind of being given a ticket 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:49.000 because I know a lot of people who are OG plebs who will walk around the floor 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:53.000 with just festival passes that they were given because they refused to pay for tickets. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.000 But it's going to basically be like who's going to be in that room next year? 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.000 Like Jamie Dimon. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:58.000 Who's going to be in that room next year? 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000 JD Vance. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:08.000 It's just going to be kind of like a party for the social elite and the political elite 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.000 that happened to be at the Bitcoin conference. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.000 So it's going to be a completely different vibe I think next year than it was this year. 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:20.000 That's a little unfortunate because I do think with Pacific Bitcoin kind of being on hiatus, 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:25.000 slash canceled, that in my opinion was one of the highest signal. 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000 Again, I'm still new here. 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:31.000 But one of the highest signal to noise ratio conferences I ever attended. 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:36.000 And so these smaller conferences in my opinion like ePunks at the Denver Space 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.000 and a lot of the things happening at like Bitcoin Park or Bitcoin Commons 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.000 are going to be a lot more important and valuable. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:52.000 But it's going to make it more expensive and challenging logistically if you live overseas or whatever. 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.000 It's like you're not going to be able to get to – 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.000 I mean ultimately everybody everywhere should be starting a meetup in their own physical meet space. 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.000 It doesn't even matter if you live in a town of 100 people. 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000 Like you should just be doing that, right? 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000 Like everywhere because that it's all – 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:13.000 like until you do that, until you bring the education to the random people, 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.000 like everyone's just going to be suffering from inflation. 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.000 All your friends are going to lose their jobs. 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.000 Like it's just going to go on and on and on until you start jumping in on Bitcoin 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:25.000 and bringing Bitcoin to wherever you are on earth, right? 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.000 And then that scales. 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.000 Cool. 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:32.000 Like the guys at Bitcoin Magazine, they figured that out super early. 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.000 Maybe they just took a risk and did it. 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:39.000 And we're just going to do a conference and snowballs into what it is now. 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.000 And that's kind of playing out. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 It's like cool. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.000 But everybody basically needs to do that and join in the meet space. 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.000 Hey, if you can do a Pacific Bitcoin where your connections 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:56.000 and your particular knowledge set allows you to get high signal people for your conference, 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.000 well, do it, right? 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.000 Yeah. 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.000 I just – I definitely think that we're going to see a hard fork socially. 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.000 A bunch of the plebs are going to get sick of the corporate bullshit 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.000 because it's going to ruin it. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:09.000 Like this year was fun. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:10.000 I had a great time. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.000 Totally worth it. 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.000 Not knocking the conference. 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.000 But this is how everything goes. 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.000 This is how it always goes with something that is cool and revolutionary and new. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:24.000 You usually start off with a couple of absolutely – just a small group of visionaries, 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:30.000 of people who are like-minded, who have a positive, constructive view of the world 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.000 and the future as far as humanity is concerned. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.000 It gets really, really fucking cool. 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.000 It becomes the cool thing to do. 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.000 And then it gets taken over by people who think that what they're doing looks cool 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.000 rather than actually being cool. 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.000 And then the people who made it cool in the first place bail. 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.000 But the cool thing is that you can't actually take Bitcoin over. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.000 Like they took Reddit over. 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:55.000 Like Reddit is a cesspool. 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.000 It used to be fantastic. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.000 The cool thing about Bitcoin is it is open source. 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.000 You can build anything you want on it. 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.000 Nobody can tell you you can or you can't. 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:11.000 And that culture can just go hide and rebuild itself and continue to build dope shit on it 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:14.000 regardless of what the lame stream is up to. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000 We already see that. 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.000 Yeah. 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.000 Like I was concerned that that would be it. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.000 I was going back home and I was like, man, that might have been the last – 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:30.000 that might have been the last like really cool, fun Bitcoin conference 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.000 before it totally gets taken over. 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.000 And I was like, no, it's just going to hard fork. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.000 It's going to be a new – it's just going to be a new group and a new place. 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.000 So I'm optimistic for that. 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:45.000 I think the fork is going to be actually really positive 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:50.000 because I think the fork is actually going to move into different lanes. 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.000 That's what I mean by that. 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.000 It's like Scott who does BidX has been posting a lot recently about like the heat reclamation, 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.000 like heatpunks type stuff. 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.000 And I think that's actually what's going to become more prevalent 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:08.000 is people are going to find something that actually is worth their time to focus and dive in on. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.000 And so you're actually going to get a lot more innovation, 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000 a lot more rubbing shoulders with people that make sense. 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.000 It's like a conference with 50,000 people. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.000 You're going to run into people that doesn't really matter whether or not you know them. 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.000 But then like two and three layers removed, 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.000 the relationships that those people have been building over the years 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.000 and you start doing a heatpunks thing, you start making a BidX. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.000 I can actually like heat people's homes in Finland or something like that 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:35.000 and actually is really, really net positive for Scandinavia 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.000 or net positive for like South Africa or whatever it is. 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.000 What's going to be cool is the relationships that were forged now 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.000 are going to actually have like a long tail of value to the entire Bitcoin community. 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:53.000 But people are going to spend less of their time trying to worry about chasing a $7,000 ticket 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.000 to a conference in Vegas and more of the time like, 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.000 okay, hang on, $7,000 is essentially seven conferences, right? 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000 Because these conferences are probably like $250 to go to 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.000 and then a round-trip ticket plus hotel plus food is going to run me like $750. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.000 So it's like, cool. 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.000 So now I can go to seven conferences in seven different places 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.000 versus spending all my time in one specific place, 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.000 especially if you're trying to huddle in stacks at. 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000 So it's going to be interesting. 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:24.000 I think this move by Bailey & Co. is strategic on their part, 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.000 but I actually think it's going to have – and maybe this is their goal, 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:32.000 but I actually think it's going to have really interesting ramifications for like Bitcoin at large. 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.000 And I do think it's actually going to probably hurt census next year 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.000 because even with free tickets, like I don't know how many people are going to be like, 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.000 do I really want to try to go here for whatever? 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.000 Because I don't know. I don't know what it's going to do. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:50.000 At some point the Bitcoin conference, at some point those high-end tickets – 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.000 I don't know if this is two years or five years or ten years, 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.000 but at some point the whale pass just becomes super boring and incestuous 00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.000 and all the rich people are like, I already have your number. 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:04.000 Why the fuck did we pay $10,000 to come out here? Let's all just hang out. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000 That might take a little while, but the people in those rooms all know each other 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.000 and they've known each other for a long time, 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.000 and they run into each other at all the conferences every fucking time. 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:18.000 And so at some point, I don't know, the value prop gets weird. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.000 Like I say, things are going to hard fork, and I think it's good. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:25.000 I think that it's cool that they can hard fork. It's not – it's fucking Bitcoin. 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.000 You know what I mean? 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.000 And I think we already see that. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:33.000 And I think Jesse, when the Amboss guys mentioned this, he's like – 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.000 just in a tweet, he's like, oh, yeah, you've seen all these treasury companies. 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:40.000 Like, oh, we're going to promise all this yield and yield and yield. 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.000 Oh, yeah, we can do all this financial engineering, et cetera. 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:49.000 And it's like, bro, we already know Bitcoin has its own native yield, 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.000 and that's through lightning payments and routing, 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.000 being a routing node that gets paid to route payments. 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.000 And they're like – I think – I don't know if it was Jesse or somebody else, 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:03.000 but they're like saying like they made more money in the last week 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.000 than like the cost of the conference, right? 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:12.000 Like it's just a crazy amount of lightning node like liquidity that they're making as a yield. 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.000 It's like Bitcoin native yield. 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:22.000 And then you also see the finance guys like Bhatia, Nick Bhatia. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:23.000 Like he got on the scene. 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.000 He became famous because he was like, oh, this is the native Bitcoin yield. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:33.000 Like it's the payments you get for routing on Bitcoin, lightning network. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.000 And now you see all the finance, the deep finance bros. 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000 I mean, he's like himself included would be part of that group. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.000 But he's like, no, that's not it. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.000 And he came to that conclusion years ago, right? 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.000 And here we are with Wall Street guys. 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.000 This is it. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.000 Like, no, it's not. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:54.000 And then if you go down the lightning yield route and you start building on the systems, 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.000 well, bro, that's just going to suck all of the value out of Wall Street and their systems, 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000 which are all legacy garbage anyway. 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.000 So great. 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.000 Fork to that direction. 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:06.000 Awesome. 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.000 Let's do it. 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.000 One of the things, you know, coming up on the half, but before, 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.000 like what are the big things that you kind of saw at the conference? 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.000 And I didn't see any of the speakers outside of I watched Jack Mahler's, which, you know, 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.000 I always love watching Jack. 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:23.000 He's just such a dynamic presenter. 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:24.000 I thought it was interesting. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.000 The strike kind of like lending thing. 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.000 I'm always leery of things, not necessarily that I'm leery of Jack, but it's just like, you know, 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.000 people getting out over their skis. 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:40.000 I saw Sailor and then I did watch Ross Obert. 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.000 And I think from a programming perspective, you know, Ross, granted, 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.000 he's been in prison for 10 years, not surely. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.000 He's been standing in front of a mirror for 10 years, you know, practicing, presenting. 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:55.000 But I would say like the headliner, those are probably backwards in terms of like presentation ability. 00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:01.000 But I do think, you know, Jack and I heard Lynn was really great. 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:05.000 I didn't watch Lynn, but I heard Lynn's actually had a really good talk. 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000 So I guess where I'm going with this. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.000 I have some thoughts on Lynn's talk too, but go on. 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.000 Yeah, but that's, I guess the question is like, 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.000 were there any talks or things that you think people should watch? 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:17.000 Like I really would recommend people watch Jack and really watch Sailor. 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.000 Jack is good because he gives you like a lot of really good history in an interesting way. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.000 And then he kind of goes into their pitch. 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:29.000 But Sailor was also good to kind of like tee up kind of like why you should hodl. 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.000 I do think hodling breaks down when we become medium of exchange. 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:34.000 But that's neither here nor there. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.000 That's a larger conversation. 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.000 But, you know, is there any talks you guys heard main stage or otherwise? 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.000 You're like, oh, people could find it. 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.000 Go watch this. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:48.000 First of all, Nat, if you're watching the talks while you're at the conference, you're doing it wrong. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.000 They literally post them all on the Internet afterwards. 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.000 What the fuck? 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.000 Don't watch talks. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.000 Go mingle with people. 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000 Introduce yourself to people. 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:00.000 Hang out in the hallways. 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.000 Do the little breakout rooms on the side where shit isn't being recorded. 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.000 Those are cool as hell. 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.000 That being said, it was Sailor's 21 rules. 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.000 What was it, 21 rules for prosperity or building wealth or something? 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.000 Did you watch that one after the fact? 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.000 Yeah. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.000 I watched it during the fact, yeah. 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000 Yeah. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.000 Phenomenal. 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:20.000 I mean, seriously phenomenal. 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:33.000 If you are trying to learn how to understand how to think in terms of finance or wealth, honestly, Sailor is on point basically 99% of the time. 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.000 It's phenomenal. 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:41.000 I thought Linz was less informative than usual. 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:48.000 But then again, I watch this stuff all day, so it's kind of like we've been saying this shit now for fucking how long? 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.000 Yeah. 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.000 That's kind of my thought on Linz as well. 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:58.000 It was just like, okay, there's some interesting points in here and all this other stuff. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:04.000 But then I'm like, yeah, but none of this matters because if you're not on a Bitcoin standard, you personally, then you're just going to get wrecked. 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:13.000 And you could spend your entire life trying to just keep up with whatever the Fed's going to do next and the macro and how China… 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.000 All of your time doing that, or you just say, F it. 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:23.000 I'm just going to denominate my entire life in Bitcoin and not worry about this anymore because I just want to spend my time with my kids. 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:27.000 I don't care about this stupid fucking Fed and what they're doing. 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.000 I just don't care. 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:35.000 And the only way to protect yourself, the only way to be able to do that, to enter that world is just entirely denominating yourself with Bitcoin. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.000 You need to get paid a flat rate in Bitcoin, and then you're good. 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.000 Then it's just whatever. 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.000 It doesn't matter. 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.000 But until you do that, it's like all this stuff matters. 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.000 It's just bonkers. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:47.000 Yeah. 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:48.000 I mean, her point is well taken. 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.000 It's like, look, they can't not print. 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.000 This is literally a Ponzi scheme, which I thought was interesting for her to say. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.000 She's usually pretty measured. 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.000 But to just like outright call it a Ponzi, I was like, cool. 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.000 Yeah, totally agree. 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.000 It literally is. 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.000 This is nonsense. 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:06.000 Like if the music stops and you don't have a chair, you're totally fucked. 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.000 That's a Ponzi scheme. 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.000 You guys have seen all the stuff about housing, right? 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:14.000 Right now? 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:21.000 I've seen a couple of bits about how it's super hot, way higher than it was in 2008, which I don't think was accurate. 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:26.000 The bigger one is Redfin came out today, and I had a couple of friends talk about this over the weekend. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:31.000 There's like 34% more sellers than buyers. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.000 Nice. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:38.000 I think, and I'll let you finish with these, but like the music is stopping. 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.000 We're seeing it in real time. 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:45.000 People just don't realize like music is stopping and it's stopping real fast because that's just residential. 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.000 It's not even talking about commercial. 00:32:47.000 --> 00:33:01.000 I think real estate at best, at absolute best, does a 0% return for the next maybe the rest of our lifetimes. 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.000 At best. 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.000 In real terms, 0%. 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.000 That's if they're printing an insane amount of money and propping this whole thing up. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:10.000 I totally agree with that. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.000 It might go up nominally. 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000 What's not going to go up nominally against the dollar? 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:20.000 Basically, everything's going up nominally, but I think in real terms, we're looking at the party's kind of over. 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.000 I grew up, the era I grew up in was like real estate meant wealth. 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.000 That's how you built wealth. 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.000 It took me a long time to realize that that was actually just a leverage game. 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.000 I didn't understand that when I was young. 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.000 I totally think that that is just, I just think it's over. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000 Assuming they don't continue to flood the country with illegal immigrants. 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.000 If they do that, I don't know. 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:53.000 All bets are off for the United States specifically, but yeah, I think real estate is totally wrecked. 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.000 That's just a demographics issue. 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.000 I think the demographics are popping the Ponzi bubble. 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:01.000 I think Lyn had a chart on there that nailed it perfectly. 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:08.000 I've said a bunch of times with you guys, the average boomer turned 65 in 2019. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:14.000 If you look at Lyn's chart, and I looked right at it, literally 2019 is when it starts to go down. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.000 Social Security, they're going to have to print it, literally Ponzi. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.000 Demand for housing, down at least at these prices. 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:30.000 But even if it's not at these prices, the generation behind the millennials, the only saving grace, 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000 the only reason I think that it could go zero for the next 15 or 20 years in real terms 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:41.000 is because millennials are a larger cohort than boomers, and we have entered our prime earning and spending years. 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:44.000 The oldest millennial is now 43, 44. 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.000 The youngest one being whatever, 20 years behind that. 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:57.000 I think millennials might sort of keep it going, but yeah, I think real estate is in a rough spot. 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:05.000 Yeah, millennials are also the – they're going to be the most politically active going forward, which means all politicians. 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.000 It's going to go all boomer politicians and all octogenarian politicians. 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:17.000 It's going to be replaced by all millennials until the millennials basically are in their whatever, 70s and 80s, right? 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:23.000 So it's just millennials are going to control America for the foreseeable future. 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:29.000 And that's what a lot of the dissonances that we're feeling is really just two generations transferring power. 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:38.000 You've got just a completely different world from a technological perspective, but it's from a mental perspective. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.000 Millennial brains are completely different than boomer brains. 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:46.000 They're just fucking different, wired differently based on environment and circumstances. 00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:48.000 The digital native, right? 00:35:48.000 --> 00:36:00.000 I think there's going to be – as soon as the generation below us, our kids are there, the digital natives, right? 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:10.000 They are going to have zero qualms adopting a digital currency like Bitcoin as the world reserve currency, period, full stop. 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:18.000 And I think that's probably one of the reasons that we have such a challenge with Bitcoin adoption at the institutional level. 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:25.000 Why it's been taking so long is because we have all these boomers who understand gold and it's like, oh, I can touch it and I can bite it and I can do all this other stuff. 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:28.000 I can throw it. I can put it on a boat and ship it across the water. 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.000 You have to mine it. 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:39.000 They kind of understand all of the physical aspects and attributes of gold, but they don't understand that Bitcoin has all of those except for the physical. 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:52.000 And so I think that's what's going to be the most unique in terms of kind of the Bitcoin adoption curve, but then also the changing tides of the world. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:02.000 Because as soon as our kids are the makers of policy, Bitcoin is literally just going to go, yeah, why not? 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.000 It's like I already used Venmo. 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.000 And so in their mind, it's the same thing anyways. 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.000 Like, agreed. 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.000 I don't think our kids are going to have to concern themselves with it. 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.000 I think it'll be done by the time we leave power. 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000 We'll have done it. 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.000 Millennials will have done it. 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:29.000 I also don't think that Bitcoin could possibly be adopted or possibly go any faster than it's going. 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.000 It's only been 16 fucking years. 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:45.000 Like, that is nothing, absolutely nothing in the span of human existence and certainly nothing with regards to something that has garnered this much power and this much influence over such a short period of time. 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.000 Like, this train is going full speed. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:53.000 If it was going any faster, it would collapse on itself and it would be destroyed. 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:56.000 Like, it's going crazy fast. 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.000 So, agreed, JD. 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:04.000 I don't think that our kids are – I don't think they're going to have to do much of anything. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.000 I think that this fight will be done by the time we leave power. 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.000 And, you know, good luck to them. 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.000 Have fun. 00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.000 Don't fuck it up, I guess. 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:20.000 I mean, there's going to be something interesting that happens with regards to, like, how each generation responds to the previous generation and what they thought was important or what they thought was important. 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:26.000 It's like millennials got to see what life was like pre-internet and then post-internet. 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.000 Zoomers basically get to see only internet. 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000 And then Gen A is going to be like, they're going to be exposed to AI-dominated internet. 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.000 And they're going to be like, this is all just AI slop. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.000 I'm super not into this. 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.000 Like, right? 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:48.000 Consequently, like, all Gen A is going to be – or, yeah, alpha. 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:53.000 They're going to just be like, internet's – that's what the boomers do. 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.000 That's what the millennials do, not the boomers. 00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.000 It's just going to be – 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.000 I hope Gen A is just a bunch of outdoorsmen. 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:02.000 They just get into camping. 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.000 They just, like, abandon Bitcoin entirely and go back to the woods. 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:13.000 Yeah, literally they're going to be annoyed about Starlink because they're just like, all those damn Starlink satellites that are clouding up the sky. 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.000 I'd like to see actual stars, please. 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:20.000 Yeah, they'll just black hole a bunch of Bitcoin and absolutely destroy the network. 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.000 Like, totally gone. 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:25.000 Oh, man. 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:26.000 So how does this get better? 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.000 We're at that turning point, but I guess – and we haven't really recapped Vegas too much. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.000 Like, I'll start and kind of go into this. 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:56.000 But I do think as we get on a Bitcoin standard, and I think some of the issues people have at the conference, as we get on a Bitcoin standard, it's going to become a lot more expensive and a lot more valuable to have floor space at something like this. 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.000 And it'll just cause two things to happen. 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:07.000 One, because it's more expensive and, you know, you legitimately are like, okay, like, making correct calls of what you should be doing because everything is more expensive. 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:12.000 I think we're going to see a lot less of the fiat, like, land grabs of people. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.000 Like, I'll spend a bunch of money and try to, you know, scam some people or do whatever. 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.000 So it's going to be, you know, more binary in that regard. 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:28.000 But I think the other thing is the conference will actually get smaller and then ultimately just kind of peter out because that's what's going to happen is it's like people aren't going to care anymore about Bitcoin. 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.000 At a million dollars, the conference for sure is done. 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.000 It's over. 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.000 Yeah, I totally agree with that. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.000 As we experience it now. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000 Like, hard fork. 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:41.000 I hope by the time we're 70 or 80, we're just having our own reunions. 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.000 Like, we're back in the conference days and fun. 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.000 Like, no one else gives a fuck about Bitcoin. 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:49.000 But then it's going to be smaller and stuff like that. 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:49.000 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:50.000 And that's what I'm excited about. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000 Dude, Zach, that is so true. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.000 I don't know if you guys experienced any of this, but my grandfather fought in World War II. 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:08.000 And every year, every five years, something like that, everybody in his, like, platoon or battalion or however they organize, it's like 500 people or something like that. 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:09.000 Right. 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:16.000 However, whatever size of the military that is, they would get together every year and throw a, like, reunion party for everybody. 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:22.000 And, like, I remember going to one of these when I was had to been, like, six, seven, something like that. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:28.000 And my grandpa was, like, telling me, he's like, yeah, every year we do this every year. 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.000 Every year there's, like, way less people because they all died. 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.000 It's like, that's going to be us. 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:34.000 It's going to be us. 00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.000 Like, oh, what? 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:36.000 Yeah. 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.000 What class are you? 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.000 2000, whatever, 20, 2024. 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.000 Like, oh, yeah, that's this reunion. 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000 And you want to be with those guys. 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.000 This reunion ain't for you, right? 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.000 You never went to Miami? 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.000 Fuck out of here, man. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.000 You don't know shit about fuck. 00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:57.000 Yeah, exactly. 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:58.000 I don't know. 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.000 Yeah, go ahead. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:08.000 In terms of how it gets better, I think one of the things that forks is, like, well, do we really have any, like, Bitcoin related? 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.000 I mean, one of the reasons we started this podcast, better by Bitcoin. 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.000 It's like, well, Bitcoin makes things better. 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:18.000 One of the things that makes it better is, like, how humans organize all of civilization, right? 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:24.000 Like, all these really cool things, like art and design and urban planning. 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.000 It, like, makes all these things way better. 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:32.000 Now, how many conferences are kind of targeting those things? 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:38.000 There's, like, a few conferences that are like, we want to target Bitcoin and economics. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.000 And so they'll have talks about the economics or whatever. 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:47.000 But, like, there isn't much, like, Bitcoin and art. 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.000 We saw it on the floor at the conference, right? 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:54.000 There's an entire section just devoted to Bitcoin art, which is interesting. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:58.000 I think you just have, at some point, they should just have their own conference, right? 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.000 Here's the Bitcoin art conference, right? 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:03.000 And then you can kind of just go down those roads. 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.000 It's like, OK, well, this conference is going to be about design. 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:10.000 This conference is going to be about how Bitcoin affects architecture. 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:15.000 Like, that gets really interesting because then you get the actual specificity because money touches everything. 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000 You finally get the specificity of how it touches this particular thing. 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:25.000 And that's going to be awesome because then you'll be able to see how it affects that particular thing that you actually care about, 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:32.000 as opposed to Saylor and his whatever yield curve fiascos. 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:40.000 Yeah, I think we could rename this episode to Vegas, to the Bitcoin conference hard fork. 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000 You know, net positive, great show, great conference, great people. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.000 I love it. 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:50.000 No regrets. Hanging out with Bitcoiners is the best. 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:57.000 But I do think that Bitcoin 2025 is marking the end of the beginning for Bitcoin. 00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.000 And we're going into an entirely new chapter. 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:07.000 And I think that the ethos of Bitcoin is going to have to go through a periodic renewal. 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.000 You know, I try to think in generations. 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.000 It kind of makes sense. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:17.000 So maybe every maybe every 10 years or so, you go through like a cultural renewal and revolution. 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:22.000 There's always going to have to be people in the Bitcoin space who are fighting the people who have the power, 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.000 who are trying to manipulate it and change it to their will. 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.000 I see that fight continuing into the future. 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:33.000 This is all very exciting, but there's going to be there's going to be more civil wars in the Bitcoin space. 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:37.000 And it's going to be, you know, as it has always been, it's going to be the plebs. 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.000 It's going to be the rebels versus the the empire. 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:44.000 You know, and we let the empire in the door and we're all celebrating and they have a lot of money and they throw great parties. 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000 But at some point we're going to be fighting each other again. 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:51.000 There's no question about that. 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:55.000 So, you know, but such is progress, right? 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:01.000 You just kind of circularly hopefully go up and progress. 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:05.000 And this is just kind of the way it is and the way it always has been. 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:14.000 So celebrate the fact that you get to be a part of it, or at least that this is the way that that energy manifests itself into our timeline, our lives. 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:19.000 And, you know, I don't know. 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.000 It's interesting. Just enjoy it. It's fun. 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.000 Enjoy it until until the crash happens. 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.000 And we already know what the cycle is already about, right? 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.000 It's about Bitcoin treasury companies. 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:42.000 It's about like lending your Bitcoin out and getting a like getting a fiat loan without having to pay taxes or any like like every other booth on the floors like this is what this is what this is all about. 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.000 Oh, we're the Bitcoin tax company. 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:49.000 Like we're like, bro, we know like and then the Treasury company things as well. 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:54.000 It's like we know that what's going to happen is that all these companies are going to get super over levered. 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:57.000 At some point, there's not going to be another buyer. 00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:59.000 Everyone's going to have the exposure that they want. 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.000 And the market's going to crash. 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.000 And a bunch of people are going to get caught naked. 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.000 And a lot of people are going to be mad. 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.000 A lot of people are going to lose money. 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.000 And then it's going to be like, I don't get flushed out. 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.000 We'll go into the next cycle. Right. 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:18.000 So and a lot of jobs will scoop up a lot of cheap corn when the fucking idiots leverage do the same shit. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.000 The idiots with leverage always do. 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.000 Yes. Yep. 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.000 I got a prediction. 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000 I'll just say like full blown prediction here. 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.000 Price per not maybe not price prediction, but behavioral prediction. 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.000 So the question is always like, where's the leverage coming from? 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.000 OK, that answer that answer is here. 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.000 We know what that is. The question is, what pops it? 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:48.000 I think that I think that through Trump's administration, we're going to continue to see companies borrow money and lever up. 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:54.000 You know, people talking about the MNAV for these publicly traded companies is going to be the thing. 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:56.000 Either you're over one or you're below one. 00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:59.000 Are you going to sell if you're below one and buy back shares or are you not? 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:04.000 I think that's going to continue to be the story for at least another couple of years. 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:10.000 And I think that just for a fun prediction, I think the thing that pops the bubble is that the United States Senate, U.S. 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.000 Congress cannot get their shit together with regards to an SBR. 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.000 The bill does not pass. 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:21.000 We're looking to a different administration, possibly a Democratic one, because for your cycles, why not? 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.000 And everybody starts to lose their shit. 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.000 And that starts to unwind the leverage that the U.S. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:31.000 government is maybe not behind it or maybe not behind it for at least another four to eight years. 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:34.000 So I think we see lever, lever, lever, lever, lever. 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.000 I don't think the U.S. passes this SBR. 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.000 I think that pops the bubble. 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:39.000 We see a massive unwind. 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.000 I think that that could see this cycle. 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:45.000 And I don't think I don't think by December we're going to see 450. 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:51.000 But let's say sometime in the next 12 months, I think cycle start to get extended in time frame. 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:55.000 And maybe in the next 12 months we see 450, something like that, whatever. 00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.000 And Congress can't get their shit together. 00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.000 Bubble pops. 00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.000 Bunch of people unwind. 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.000 And now it's got a point five point three total disaster. 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.000 And we're back at eighty five. 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:07.000 Eighty four. 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:12.000 Shout out to Josh Mann before we ramp up to over 500 K. 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.000 And I don't think the normies, the norm. 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:16.000 Here's a problem with the normies. 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:19.000 The reason they're called normies is because it doesn't matter what the price is. 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.000 They still don't care. 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:23.000 They'll never care because they don't understand it. 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000 And that's fine. 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.000 Apparently they're not meant to. 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.000 If they're if you're meant to, you're already in it or, you know, you'll find yourself in it shortly. 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.000 So I think that I think this is it. 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.000 Like we're on the boat. 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.000 This is the boat. 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.000 It's a corporate story at this point until the leverage bubble pops. 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.000 And it's definitely a corporate story this time around. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:50.000 And then the next time around will be like I love. 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.000 I think that's a it's a sound insight. 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.000 This is the corporate story. 00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:01.000 But politically, corporate is basically just associated with one party, like politically, right? 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.000 Oh, we don't have the insiders with our party. 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.000 I mean, both parties are totally chock full of insiders and whatever. 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.000 But the imaging on one of the parties is like in bed with Wall Street. 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.000 The imaging on the other parties is like, no, we care about the working man. 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:15.000 Obviously, they don't. 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:16.000 But. 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.000 Yeah, politically, it's like this is. 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000 Yeah. 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:25.000 Bitcoin has infiltrated the Wall Street corporate sector. 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.000 It has not infiltrated the political sector. 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:31.000 It's it's knocking on the door of the political sector, but it's not in the room yet. 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:32.000 Right. 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:36.000 Like state level bills are failing because everyone's like, why? 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.000 Why would we do that? 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.000 Like, it's just it's bonkers. 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:43.000 The world is still run by boomers and they're still the ones who are signing these bills. 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:46.000 And that's going to be true for the next 10 to 15 years. 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:53.000 And for the record, I don't think that I don't think that it's you know, I don't think that we should be cheering on sovereigns buying Bitcoin at all. 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:55.000 I don't I don't see the point in it. 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000 I don't see the benefit to it. 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:05.000 I think that we should be cheering on corporate adoption, like significantly more than sovereign adoption, ignoring price. 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:16.000 Do you guys think a political adversary like China or Russia are going to be the ones to to start the unraveling? 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:17.000 Already doing it. 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:20.000 Did you see the bit bond deal with Russia this morning? 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.000 Mm hmm. 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.000 So there you go. 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:24.000 Right. 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:30.000 Like Russia has every you know, it's to their advantage to shake the U.S. system. 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:36.000 The U.S. dollar system already kicked Russia out of it, which was the beginning of the end to a dollar. 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.000 That was it. 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.000 Like when when we kicked Russia out, we froze their treasuries. 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.000 We booted them off a swift like that was it. 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.000 That was it. 00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:49.000 That was the beginning of the end for the for treasuries as the global reserve asset. 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:53.000 The dollar will be a currency for quite a while longer, but treasuries is the global reserve asset. 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.000 That's that's it's done. 00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:56.000 It's over. 00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.000 So I don't know. 00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:59.000 I think they do, J.D. 00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:03.000 Like I think other countries have every reason to attack in this way. 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:14.000 And, you know, like if shit goes, no bid, you know, all these treasury companies, you know, MetaPlanet and Herb Durbin, blah, blah, blah. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:19.000 Like the publicly traded companies, I think they're just massive attack vectors. 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.000 I just think they're they're honeypots for governments. 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000 They're honeypots for sovereigns. 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:30.000 I think that private corporate adoption is like. 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.000 Should be the top of the pyramid as far as what bitcoiners are looking for. 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000 I don't think it should go higher than that. 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:37.000 Publicly traded companies. 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:38.000 I don't know. 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.000 Thumbs down just from a security perspective. 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.000 And I don't think sovereigns who gives a fuck like that's just. 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:46.000 Who like how do you manage those keys? 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:47.000 What are the rules? 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:48.000 Who's writing the rules? 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.000 How do you make sure it's not being stolen? 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:50.000 Like, you know, whatever. 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:51.000 Get out of here. 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:56.000 But but but private corporations have a reason to hold on to that corn and use it in a productive way. 00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:04.000 So to me, interesting when the private bitcoin yield companies become the yield. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000 Right. 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:10.000 Be kind of fun. 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.000 Yeah. 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:14.000 I think you mentioned this to bond or like I think that this. 00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.000 Oh, by the way, I might wait. 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:18.000 So I like Nick's work, Nick. 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:19.000 Nick Bhatia. 00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:20.000 I think he's great. 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:25.000 I remember when he came out with the risk free rate in Bitcoin being lightning transfer. 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.000 Did he renege on that? 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:29.000 Did he take that back or did you. 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000 Is that what you were saying earlier or did I misunderstand? 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:32.000 No, no, no. 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:33.000 I'm not saying that he did that. 00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.000 Like I remember it. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.000 I remember him coming out with that and that being like awesome. 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:37.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.000 I don't think he's ever reneged on it. 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.000 I think it's a sound theory and the rest of that. 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.000 So, yeah, I think it's I think it's fantastic. 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:53.000 And this whole like, you know, sub 10, like almost near 10 percent routing by blocks node or whatever it was is totally bonkers. 00:52:53.000 --> 00:53:01.000 And I think that's maybe the most, you know, if we're going to recap here at the very end, like I think maybe that's. 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:08.000 At least off the top of my head, probably the most like important news is that is that that level of yield can be generated by a lightning node. 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:11.000 Now, obviously, that's going to compress at some point. 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:19.000 But honestly, like to get any amount of Bitcoin back risk free is amazing. 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:23.000 Like I don't care if it's 50 basis points or two percent or three percent. 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:29.000 Like that's a huge number on top of the 40 percent kegger that it's already giving you. 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.000 So I think I think that's a huge deal. 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.000 And that's got to be watched. 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:38.000 Amboss, you know, has like they have a rails product now that there's a waitlist for, which I think is super interesting. 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:49.000 Maybe they're trying to obfuscate the difficulty of running a lightning node for just retard plebs like myself who just want to be like, someone give me money. 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.000 It's also hard to like, you know, because if your node goes down like there's a lot of. 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.000 You know, who's holding the bag if you were in the middle of a transaction? 00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.000 You know, there are some my understanding of it. 00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.000 It could be wrong with like some double spend issues with lightning. 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:09.000 If you're if you lose connectivity with your node while you're in the middle of a transaction. 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.000 So it's like it could come back and bite you or somebody else. 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000 So I I think it's there's value in the product. 00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:20.000 Only there is a node that could solve that problem. 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.000 Maybe we'll get there one day. 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.000 Next episode on Better Buy Bitcoin. 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:33.000 Kyber Nick Hickey's notes or whatever they're called. 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:36.000 But no, yeah, Zach, I mean, that's 100 percent correct. 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:41.000 The thing that's going to happen is that the technology, the technology is just not evenly distributed. 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:46.000 We're still processing how to deal with lightning. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:53.000 And the consequences of that are just going to take a long time to figure out and for them to build products around it and open source and whatever. 00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:56.000 And people internalize what's happening and the rest of it. 00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.000 But like once those start going, they're not going to stop going. 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000 And it's going to be it's just especially if we can do the asset things. 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:05.000 I've talked to you guys about this a little bit. 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:10.000 Like if you can do the assets on lightning, which you can use stable coins on lightning, which you can. 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.000 Apparently stable coins are a big thing at the conference to whatever. 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:17.000 But at some point it's like, well, wait a second. 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:23.000 If we just do assets, well, isn't a company's like stock an asset? 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:28.000 Why can't we just put company stock on lightning? 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:35.000 And just not have a corporation as it's defined in the legacy infrastructure at all. 00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.000 It's just entire a corporation that entirely exists on lightning. 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:45.000 Now, there's a whole slew of problems and difficulties that like would have to go into that, of course. 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.000 But you're like, it's not it's not that much of a leap to jump there. 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.000 Right. Yeah. Once you get that, then it's like, well, what is Wall Street? 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000 What's the purpose of this? Yeah. 00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:06.000 Yeah. Wall Street is just a bunch of depreciating assets and the form of real estate in one of the most saturated and overpopulated parts of the United States. 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:16.000 That just so happened to have a vault that has a lot of paper that moves back and forth that tells people they own things that aren't real. 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:19.000 Hey, be more bearish. Gosh, man. Oh, man. 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:22.000 No, that's that's the bullish case for Bitcoin right there. 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:29.000 Like, you know, Wall Street is the. Yeah. Can you can you state the legacy system more depressingly? 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:38.000 Is that we do that? We should we should have a like a midnight three drink minimum show called Be More Bearish where we just get blackout drunk. 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:46.000 Big bearish bears, not not not West Hollywood bears, but blackout drunk. 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:51.000 The Berenstein bears do Bitcoin. Oh, man. 00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:56.000 We're getting there. We're getting there. What? Oh, hey, this is this is good. 00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:03.000 Any any kind of last, you know, thoughts on the Bitcoin conference? Hard for. 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:12.000 I'm curious about your thoughts, J.D., what what are your. One, what where does it get better, but also, you know. 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:23.000 Last thoughts in the conference and the whole thing. I think my last thought is I really am bullish and excited about the niches. 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:31.000 The riches are in the niches. And as Bitcoin continues to become the denominator more and more, more people are going to push into their niche. 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:38.000 That's going to make everything better. People are going to become better at manufacturing, you know, in the United States or whatever country it is in the world. 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:42.000 They're going to get better at using agents. They're going to get better at meat space. 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:49.000 They're going to get better at just being a good contributor. And part of that, too, is just being better parents. 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:55.000 You know, it's like being better fathers and friends and, you know, it's going to make things mean something again. 00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:04.000 And so the the net net is we're going to get a lot less fiat and a lot more function and a lot more value. 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:13.000 And so that's what I'm excited about. I think it's going to be, you know, probably a five to 10 year pendulum to get to that point. 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:19.000 But I'm optimistic that we're going to get to a much better world as we continue to get a Bitcoin standard. 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:25.000 But I do think we are not. There is a nonzero risk of a hot war before we get there. 00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:34.000 And that's something that I'm not excited about, because with drones and optimists and all this other stuff, you know, those war dog things that are just frickin terrifying. 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:44.000 Like it's going to be, you know, I'm super bullish and super optimistic, but I feel like there is probably a wave of pain on the way there. 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:53.000 Yeah, I yeah, I would agree. I think there's definitely a wave of pain coming and however that pain manifests, I hope it's. 00:58:53.000 --> 00:59:02.000 More, you know, extended dull pain and quick and sharp pain, you know, but. 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:13.000 You know, I think that. I don't know, I, I, I kind of spend a lot of time thinking about how the pattern is going to play out, how price is going to play out, right? 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:21.000 It's going to be price is always reflective of some behavior and things are a lot muddier now. 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:36.000 And I'm curious if all of this leverage that companies like Stryker offering is going to be one of the things that leads to another Bitcoin bear. 00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:45.000 One of the, one of the things I was always, I couldn't figure out was why, why is the interest rate so high on Bitcoin loans? 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:47.000 And, you know, it's been very high for a long, for a long time. 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:52.000 Unchained had comically high loans for a while when they were like the only game in town. 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:57.000 And now we're getting to like maybe eight at the best, you know, eight, nine, ten. 00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:00.000 So, and you could imagine that like maybe the, the cheapest. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:03.000 I think it's a five, like 5.2. 01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:04.000 Yeah. 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.000 I mean, I would, that would be, I, that would be shocked if I, I don't know. 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:08.000 Where's that? 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:09.000 Where was five? 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:12.000 ABR, A-B-R, something like that. 01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:13.000 Definitely. 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:14.000 You are the yield. 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:15.000 Never heard of it before. 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:16.000 You are the yield. 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:17.000 Correct. 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:18.000 Yeah. 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:19.000 Don't do that. 01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:20.000 Do you think they send money to my Albi? 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.000 Just send it to my Albi. 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:22.000 Trust me, I'm good for it. 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:32.000 But, but, you know, it'll be interesting to see how these leverage products affect the price over the next couple of years. 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:37.000 You know, I guess, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, it's really easy on an order book. 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:48.000 If you're taking leverage out on Kraken or whatever, Bybit, for people to figure out what your, what your liquidation points are. 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:49.000 But it's interesting. 01:00:49.000 --> 01:01:04.000 I want to know, is Strike, is there some deal that Strike has where they're selling information about their customers, you know, liquidation levels? 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:15.000 And is there an incentive for the large whales in this space to get a bunch of plebs levered up, nuke them all, take their Bitcoin? 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:17.000 Because who's providing the capital, right? 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:21.000 Who's providing, you know, billions of dollars of capital for Bitcoin? 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:22.000 JP Morgan. 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.000 Exactly. 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:25.000 You know, Cantor Fitzgerald, you know. 01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:26.000 BlackRock. 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:29.000 Jack Mahler's friends, whoever he's hanging out with now. 01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:37.000 So, you know, I, I, I, I'm totally down for Bitcoin-backed loans, all about it. 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.000 But, you know, this shit's complicated and if you don't have any experience with that kind of stuff, you know, you're liable to get wrecked, right? 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:45.000 A lot of people see a big number. 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.000 We go up to $200,000 or $300,000 and they're like, oh, I'm going to take out a loan. 01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.000 It's like the worst time to possibly take out a loan against Bitcoin is at highs. 01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:59.000 And so if we see a wave of that, who stands to benefit from liquidations on these private books? 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:02.000 You know, it's one thing to do it on a crypto platform. 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.000 It's another thing, you know, to have these private loans rugged a bunch of people. 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.000 So I don't know. 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:15.000 I'm just saying be cautious, you know, be skeptical. 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:16.000 Ask questions. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:20.000 Don't, don't, don't over lever at all. 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:23.000 Don't do more than like maybe 5% of your whole stack. 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:25.000 You know, just don't get liquidated. 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:27.000 Do not yeet into anything. 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.000 Exactly. 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.000 I think, yeah. 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:36.000 For me, I think the final takeaway is going to be, I think you're right about that. 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:40.000 It feels like we are now at the end of the beginning. 01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.000 It feels like we are exiting phase one. 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:47.000 And maybe we haven't started phase two yet. 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:50.000 Maybe it's like still 5, 10 years away. 01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:56.000 But it's like, okay, you got to start asking the question, like, what else can we even do in phase one? 01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:57.000 Right. 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:58.000 We got all the corporates. 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.000 Cool. 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.000 What is phase two? 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:06.000 Phase two is going to be get like really actually start to change the culture. 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:10.000 Actually start to affect change in the rest of the world. 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.000 Whether the rest of the world likes it or not. 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.000 Because we're going to be Bitcoiners and we're going to have all the agencies. 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:18.000 So we're just going to be able to do whatever we want. 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:21.000 You know, for better or worse, but that's just going to happen. 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:28.000 And that feels more like a different vibe than just having whatever. 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:33.000 Like the few early adopters have their vision about what it was right now. 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.000 There's an entire new generation of Bitcoiners. 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:36.000 It's coming up. 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.000 It's like, well, wait a second. 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:42.000 It's not that I have to invent the new thing and try and figure out what it's going to be. 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:51.000 It's like people have already gone down unbelievably long roads in terms of rabbit holes and figured a whole bunch of stuff out that I can just like read, download. 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.000 Cool. I got it. 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:55.000 Now I'm like up to speed and I have a new idea. 01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:02.000 We're going to be able to bring all of that stuff forward and push in ways that we've never been able to push on before. 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.000 And I think that's going to be phase two. 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:10.000 And that's going to be how we affect art, how we affect culture, how we affect cities, how we affect human relationships. 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.000 Like how we basically just gut the system of fiat. 01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:19.000 And gutting the fiat out of the world is going to be a long and painful process. 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:24.000 To JD, your point, there may be kinetic consequences to that. 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.000 And we're going to have to go through it. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:29.000 But, man, it's going to be awesome. 01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:32.000 And it's going to be so much better on the other side. 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.000 I'm going to take a little prediction here. 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.000 Maybe we record this one and play it back in ten years. 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:40.000 But let's just go with the Star Wars trilogy. 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:42.000 First movie was A New Hope. 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:44.000 Second movie is Empire Strikes Back. 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:47.000 Book two, I think it's going to be a lot worse. 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:48.000 It's not going to be as fun. 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.000 I think the Empire is going to strike back here in phase two. 01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:01.000 And then phase three is Return of the Jedi where we have to re-up our values, fork the chain socially, and get back to Bitcoiner values. 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:12.000 But I think that Wall Street entering here, I think there's going to be a handful of Bitcoiners who absolutely ruin their lives with how much wealth they have. 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:17.000 And they don't know how to handle that much energy. 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:19.000 And they're going to get destroyed. 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:20.000 They're going to get wrecked. 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:25.000 And I think there's going to be a whole other group of people who survive this that you wouldn't think. 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:32.000 I think some of the most ardent Bitcoin voices right now are very liable to get absolutely fucking destroyed when they become billionaires. 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:35.000 So the Empire will strike back that way. 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:38.000 And then we have to renew in part three. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:41.000 All I took from that is that Satoshi is coming back. 01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.000 So I appreciate you confirming this. 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.000 He's not. 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.000 It's John Nash. 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.000 He's dead. 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:48.000 Move on. 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:54.000 Hey, man, if Brian Johnston can live till 1,000, we can bring John Nash back. 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:55.000 He's not. 01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.000 He's going to die way sooner than the rest of us. 01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.000 He's fucking dying in like 10 years for sure. 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:07.000 And it's going to be like, oh, my God, the guy who spent billions of dollars on being healthy died of cardiovascular issues because his cholesterol was too low. 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:14.000 I think it's going to be more ironic when he just like chokes on something like he choked on like a strawberry or something like something benign and stupid. 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.000 It's like he bought those $98 strawberries from Whole Foods and choked on one. 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:20.000 It's like, what? 01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:21.000 Yeah. 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:22.000 Yeah. 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:23.000 I think I buy that. 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:24.000 I like that one. 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.000 He'll just slip on a banana. 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:29.000 Now we're talking. 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.000 He was loading up on potassium. 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:36.000 Potassium overload. 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:39.000 Sweet. 01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:41.000 Well, thanks for jumping in. 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:43.000 Thank you, everybody, for jumping on to listen through. 01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:53.000 And we should be back later this week with another regularly scheduled program of whatever the hell this is. 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.000 JD started drinking at about 9 a.m. 01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.000 This is actually coffee. 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:07.000 Anyway, we're sorry you had to listen to this, but you also clicked on it, so it's your own damn fault. 01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:10.000 Fuck you. 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:13.000 I digress. 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:42.000 Okay. 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.000 Bye. 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:44.000 Bye. 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:45.000 Bye.