WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:12.249 --> 00:01:13.869 matt: What is this new plugin? 00:01:13.869 --> 00:01:15.179 You're launching siren affiliates. 00:01:15.179 --> 00:01:15.769 I'm seeing it. 00:01:15.999 --> 00:01:17.339 I'm seeing you talk about it on Twitter. 00:01:17.339 --> 00:01:19.879 We'll get into like your marketing and behind the scenes and all that stuff. 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:21.229 But what, what does this plugin do 00:01:22.489 --> 00:01:25.739 alex: Well, at its core, Siren, it's an affiliate plugin. 00:01:25.789 --> 00:01:28.539 at least that's the easiest way I can describe it to people who've 00:01:28.539 --> 00:01:29.769 never seen anything like it. 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:36.309 basically it allows people to create different and varied, affiliate plugins 00:01:36.369 --> 00:01:39.869 or programs, but not just like the basic ones that you've thought of. 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:41.089 So you can create those. 00:01:41.514 --> 00:01:45.624 But you can also create all kinds of different ways to collaborate together 00:01:45.914 --> 00:01:49.324 That fall outside of what you might think of as an affiliate program. 00:01:49.324 --> 00:01:51.874 So let me give you a quick example Just to help with that. 00:01:52.534 --> 00:01:54.824 Let's say like on Chris's podcast. 00:01:54.824 --> 00:01:58.334 I talked about this a lot, but like I Let's say you wanted to create a 00:01:58.334 --> 00:02:03.984 multiple course creator program where you have a Platform where there's 00:02:04.014 --> 00:02:08.404 multiple course creators on a single site and you want to be able to pay them 00:02:08.414 --> 00:02:10.419 based on their viewership You Right. 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:12.219 And you want to pay them a percentage of the profits based 00:02:12.219 --> 00:02:14.619 on like how many people completed their course and stuff like that. 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:20.269 Each month, Siren is built so that you can create diverse programs in that way. 00:02:20.869 --> 00:02:23.169 matt: when people hear affiliate plugin? 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:25.529 Immediately their radars go off, right? 00:02:25.989 --> 00:02:27.989 They're like, Oh my God, affiliates. 00:02:27.989 --> 00:02:29.919 Number one, they're like, I'll never do affiliates. 00:02:31.119 --> 00:02:31.459 alex: Yeah. 00:02:31.569 --> 00:02:36.369 matt: Then there's like that whole persona of Affiliate marketers where 00:02:36.609 --> 00:02:40.869 people might be like turned off by it What do you think that differentiator 00:02:40.869 --> 00:02:44.709 is for the way that you're approaching this market with this product? 00:02:44.729 --> 00:02:47.309 Are you are you looking at that going? 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:47.699 You know what? 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:51.069 I'm gonna try to flip that narrative a little bit or are you saying nah, 00:02:51.069 --> 00:02:53.709 man That's where the money's made whether you like affiliates or not Like 00:02:53.709 --> 00:02:56.489 I'm just gonna lean into that market and that's just where we're headed 00:02:57.729 --> 00:02:58.089 alex: Yeah. 00:02:58.089 --> 00:02:59.929 It's, it's kind of both to be honest. 00:02:59.979 --> 00:03:02.839 but it's, it's more of the, the former, the first thing you said. 00:03:02.859 --> 00:03:06.769 So basically the, the big thing for me is that affiliates got a bad affiliate 00:03:06.769 --> 00:03:12.739 programs have historically had a bed rep, bad rep because of the insincerity of it. 00:03:12.779 --> 00:03:13.039 Right. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:14.979 So people who will refer your business. 00:03:15.329 --> 00:03:17.079 may or may not have ever used that business. 00:03:17.109 --> 00:03:19.099 And it's very clear that they're just in it for the money. 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:23.059 And, you know, it kind of creates this inauthentic experience as a result. 00:03:23.589 --> 00:03:26.259 but then on the flip side of that, another thing that a lot of people talk 00:03:26.269 --> 00:03:30.499 about is, they'll create an affiliate program and it just doesn't work, right? 00:03:30.499 --> 00:03:33.749 Like they, they don't see any, any traction with it, or they'll 00:03:33.749 --> 00:03:36.519 get people to sign up and nobody will actually do anything with it. 00:03:37.019 --> 00:03:39.759 And, I've actually been spending a fair bit of time just creating 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:43.509 educational resources on my website as well to like kind of combat 00:03:43.549 --> 00:03:47.259 some of those things because it doesn't have to be that way, right? 00:03:47.279 --> 00:03:52.449 This can be an authentic relationship between you and your affiliates and 00:03:52.449 --> 00:03:56.319 your affiliates can have authentic relationships with their audience and 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:01.749 still create really meaningful affiliate programs without it feeling smarmy and, 00:04:01.779 --> 00:04:04.249 and, you know, snake oil salesman like. 00:04:04.789 --> 00:04:08.414 matt: One of the things that I find, or I found interesting in that interview, 00:04:08.414 --> 00:04:10.624 and again, I'll link it up in the show notes, and we'll, and I actually just 00:04:10.624 --> 00:04:13.334 wanted to unpack this, this part of it. 00:04:13.704 --> 00:04:14.944 I've been exploring a lot. 00:04:15.884 --> 00:04:19.014 Again, back to sort of like the roots of what I did with the Matterport 00:04:19.054 --> 00:04:23.874 many years ago is exploring the, the roots of, freelancers getting into 00:04:23.874 --> 00:04:25.724 the game of, of WordPress, right? 00:04:25.724 --> 00:04:29.214 Client services, designing sites, building sites, maintaining sites. 00:04:29.554 --> 00:04:33.604 And I think, as I've been saying through this, podcast for a while 00:04:33.604 --> 00:04:36.854 now that I think we're going to see a resurgence of services business. 00:04:36.854 --> 00:04:39.044 I mean, I'm already seeing it, but, I think we're, we're 00:04:39.044 --> 00:04:40.884 going to see this again, and. 00:04:41.589 --> 00:04:45.199 What you were talking about is it doesn't just have to be like affiliate or the 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.989 way that you've modeled this plug in and correct me If I'm wrong, it doesn't 00:04:47.989 --> 00:04:51.209 have to be about this Oh, I'm selling a plug in or I'm selling a product and 00:04:51.209 --> 00:04:55.589 you're gonna get 30 percent No service providers can also use your product 00:04:55.769 --> 00:05:00.169 is is is what I heard Unpack that for me because I think a lot of service 00:05:00.169 --> 00:05:01.464 providers Providers in the beginning. 00:05:01.464 --> 00:05:02.784 They're like, I don't even know how to grow my, I don't 00:05:02.784 --> 00:05:03.624 know how to grow my business. 00:05:03.624 --> 00:05:04.994 I don't know how to find clients. 00:05:05.364 --> 00:05:07.014 You know, I want to partner with other people. 00:05:07.014 --> 00:05:08.074 Maybe I want to give them a cut. 00:05:08.294 --> 00:05:12.584 So let's unpack that whole using this for a services business. 00:05:13.684 --> 00:05:14.084 alex: Oh, yeah. 00:05:14.104 --> 00:05:19.394 I just wrote like a 2000 word blueprint on this exact topic on the blog the 00:05:19.394 --> 00:05:25.534 other day So this the one of the big things about siren that makes it really 00:05:25.544 --> 00:05:29.144 powerful is you can create more than one program with it So instead of just having 00:05:29.144 --> 00:05:33.729 a single monolithic affiliate program that's supposed to do like everything 00:05:33.729 --> 00:05:35.619 you can create multiple programs. 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:39.539 And that's really relevant to people who are doing service based businesses 00:05:39.539 --> 00:05:44.769 because their products, the customer's journey to the purchase tends to be, a lot 00:05:44.779 --> 00:05:49.679 longer than say you're buying, you know, an iPhone case or something like that. 00:05:49.689 --> 00:05:53.059 you know, you can with a single interaction with an affiliate. 00:05:53.434 --> 00:05:57.134 On a website, decide that you're going to go through an entire customer 00:05:57.134 --> 00:05:59.744 journey and buy an iPhone case. 00:05:59.884 --> 00:06:03.664 That's not really the case with, with service based things, right? 00:06:03.944 --> 00:06:08.714 So, the, as a result that that process is a lot longer and there's 00:06:08.714 --> 00:06:10.884 a lot more steps in that process. 00:06:11.154 --> 00:06:14.384 And because of that, people tend service based people tend to look 00:06:14.384 --> 00:06:16.644 at it and go, Oh, well, affiliate programs won't work for me because 00:06:16.644 --> 00:06:18.194 I'm not selling phone cases. 00:06:18.194 --> 00:06:18.504 Right. 00:06:18.949 --> 00:06:23.339 But really, if you look at it with Siren, because there's multiple programs, 00:06:23.409 --> 00:06:27.329 all those different touch points in the journey can have a program that's 00:06:27.349 --> 00:06:32.079 specifically tailored for that so that you can credit all the people who 00:06:32.089 --> 00:06:36.869 have helped, that customer through the journey to converting to you at the end. 00:06:37.169 --> 00:06:41.534 So if you have maybe you have a, a, a program that's specifically for 00:06:41.554 --> 00:06:45.054 podcasters who are talking about things related to your service. 00:06:45.324 --> 00:06:48.744 You can create a program for them so that whenever they talk about 00:06:48.744 --> 00:06:50.764 it, they can send a lead to you. 00:06:50.784 --> 00:06:51.044 Right. 00:06:51.044 --> 00:06:53.954 And then you can get credit for, they can get credit for that lead if that lead 00:06:53.954 --> 00:06:55.624 ever actually converts in the future. 00:06:56.134 --> 00:06:58.874 And then it also gets really interesting for service based 00:06:58.884 --> 00:07:02.064 companies whenever you start thinking about this, like by the vertical. 00:07:02.074 --> 00:07:07.374 So maybe I'm a web development agency and I want to go and work and, I want to serve 00:07:07.384 --> 00:07:09.324 the breweries, like the brewing industry. 00:07:09.324 --> 00:07:09.624 Right. 00:07:10.054 --> 00:07:13.194 And I want to specifically start going, I start going to their conferences. 00:07:13.204 --> 00:07:15.924 I started going to those events and I started doing talks about, you know, 00:07:16.174 --> 00:07:18.824 like web development and web solutions. 00:07:19.314 --> 00:07:21.554 through the lens of what a brewery would need. 00:07:21.874 --> 00:07:23.194 And then you can take that. 00:07:23.564 --> 00:07:25.404 And while you're there, of course, you're looking for 00:07:25.404 --> 00:07:26.524 customers and things like that. 00:07:26.524 --> 00:07:29.554 But you could also be looking for potential affiliates, potential people 00:07:29.554 --> 00:07:34.094 who can collaborate with you who are have, a business in that niche as well. 00:07:34.274 --> 00:07:36.934 But they also aren't your competitor, right? 00:07:36.964 --> 00:07:39.024 So they're not going to be your customer, but they're not your competitor. 00:07:39.264 --> 00:07:42.194 These are great opportunities for people to be able to, you 00:07:42.194 --> 00:07:43.324 know, refer business to you. 00:07:43.334 --> 00:07:46.114 So you work with those people, you get them signed up on the program, 00:07:46.514 --> 00:07:49.664 and then you give them an opportunity to get a little bit of a kickback 00:07:50.024 --> 00:07:51.644 whenever, you know, they refer you. 00:07:51.904 --> 00:07:55.434 matt: just talking to, Mark Samansky, who co hosts a lot of live streams with me 00:07:55.434 --> 00:08:00.589 at the WP minute, and we're just talking about the, The industry today, right? 00:08:00.589 --> 00:08:03.189 We're talking about, you know, I ran an agency for a decade. 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:06.069 It's been nearly a decade since I've done that. 00:08:06.729 --> 00:08:09.159 you know, I left it about seven, eight years ago. 00:08:09.469 --> 00:08:10.049 still runs today. 00:08:10.049 --> 00:08:11.879 My father still runs it, still got a team, et cetera, et cetera. 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:14.169 But, you know, I've, I've gone through the whole highs and lows of being an 00:08:14.179 --> 00:08:15.879 agency owner, being a service provider. 00:08:17.094 --> 00:08:20.134 Stuff and he's, you know, he was telling me the other day, man, Matt, you 00:08:20.184 --> 00:08:21.244 know, the industry is different today. 00:08:21.244 --> 00:08:24.624 You can't get these customers to pay, you can't get them to deliver content. 00:08:24.674 --> 00:08:28.614 And I'm Mark, you're saying all the same things I struggled with 20 years 00:08:28.614 --> 00:08:30.254 ago, it just, it sounds the same. 00:08:30.254 --> 00:08:31.654 The tools might be different, right? 00:08:31.654 --> 00:08:34.894 We have whatever Gutenberg bricks elements or all these things now. 00:08:35.164 --> 00:08:37.974 yes, it's a, it's a lot more competitive, but what I like. 00:08:38.999 --> 00:08:44.109 Particularly when I was listening to you talk about this stuff is you should as 00:08:44.109 --> 00:08:49.249 an freelancer, an agency owner, create a product that you could sell more 00:08:49.249 --> 00:08:54.279 affordably like a course, like a guide, something that's a little more one off. 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:56.919 There's no commitment, but you know, you're profitable. 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:02.019 The customer is getting value from it and it's high ticket enough or higher 00:09:02.019 --> 00:09:06.659 priced enough, I guess, where you could pay out an affiliate to say, Hey, I'm 00:09:07.129 --> 00:09:10.329 If you recommend this course for my services, you'll get a little money too. 00:09:10.719 --> 00:09:13.829 With all that being said, is there from what you've seen so far, 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:17.209 is there like a sweet spot, like minimal for a course or a guide or 00:09:17.209 --> 00:09:20.669 something like that where you should be thinking, well, it should be 200. 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:21.659 That way you can give. 00:09:22.034 --> 00:09:23.474 100 to an affiliate. 00:09:23.494 --> 00:09:27.994 Is there a formula you work with on figuring out like what that payout 00:09:27.994 --> 00:09:29.594 or what that price point should be? 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:31.279 alex: Yeah. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.219 So I have a, I have a, I base it on the profit margin. 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:38.479 so if you've got a really good profit margin, you know, you 00:09:38.479 --> 00:09:43.789 should be offering like 25%, 30 percent even, for your affiliates. 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:45.299 If your profit margin is a little tighter. 00:09:45.844 --> 00:09:49.054 Then, you know, you've got to obviously scale down your profit, 00:09:49.074 --> 00:09:51.134 your, your payout based on that. 00:09:51.464 --> 00:09:55.084 most of the time I generally just recommend for, for service based companies 00:09:55.104 --> 00:09:59.804 to, to do a percentage, just because it's, it's the easiest one, it's scales well, 00:10:00.304 --> 00:10:01.994 and, you don't have to change everything. 00:10:01.994 --> 00:10:04.034 Every time you change the pricing or anything like that. 00:10:04.554 --> 00:10:06.314 and also it's easy to plan for, right? 00:10:06.354 --> 00:10:10.824 Because from a budget perspective, you can say, okay, well, I know that at most I'm 00:10:10.824 --> 00:10:15.294 going to end up losing, you know, giving away this percentage to my affiliates 00:10:15.334 --> 00:10:17.944 and the rest of it comes to my business. 00:10:18.304 --> 00:10:22.764 but what you were saying a minute ago about having lower costs, more 00:10:22.764 --> 00:10:28.064 affordable products to sell, I think is a really key component of this, 00:10:28.114 --> 00:10:29.854 for service based companies, because. 00:10:30.289 --> 00:10:32.899 the way I always put it is give them something to sell, right? 00:10:32.929 --> 00:10:38.669 Like they can't sell a custom WordPress website solution or even, you know, 00:10:38.749 --> 00:10:41.609 anything like that, anytime it gets into the realm of custom and there's 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.269 questions and there's discovery at all, it's going to be a real, it's not 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:49.079 going to be as easy, they can generate leads for you, but they're not going 00:10:49.079 --> 00:10:50.809 to be able to actually convert for you. 00:10:51.149 --> 00:10:57.109 So, by creating something that is, you know, packaged up and has a defined 00:10:57.109 --> 00:11:01.164 scope, You know, something like a website audit or a course, or maybe 00:11:01.164 --> 00:11:05.244 even a build for a single webpage or setting up a site or something like that. 00:11:05.244 --> 00:11:08.594 There's all kinds of different options here, but it has to be something that has 00:11:08.594 --> 00:11:13.474 a small fixed scope that you can charge, you know, for a couple hundred dollars, 00:11:13.534 --> 00:11:16.634 you know, maybe more, but usually, you know, a few hundred dollars is. 00:11:17.309 --> 00:11:24.269 It's a pretty good range there, and you, give that to your affiliates and you 00:11:24.269 --> 00:11:26.649 let them focus on converting on that. 00:11:27.109 --> 00:11:31.229 Then you're able to, use that as a part of the customer journey, right? 00:11:31.229 --> 00:11:33.489 But the key thing here is the affiliate got paid. 00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:34.609 Already, right? 00:11:34.609 --> 00:11:35.739 So they got their commission. 00:11:35.749 --> 00:11:37.749 They they're doing the thing they're doing their conversion. 00:11:37.749 --> 00:11:39.799 You're giving them something to convert. 00:11:40.839 --> 00:11:43.449 And, all while you're doing that and you're building this thing, you're 00:11:43.459 --> 00:11:47.339 building that rapport with that customer at that same time, right? 00:11:47.339 --> 00:11:48.519 So while you're doing that. 00:11:48.964 --> 00:11:51.504 while you're serving them and you're getting paid for this, you're actually 00:11:51.504 --> 00:11:54.474 getting paid to learn about this customer and learn what their needs are. 00:11:54.474 --> 00:11:58.054 And that tends to lead to bigger and better projects for that customer. 00:11:58.444 --> 00:12:01.164 Or maybe you, you know, you do this project and you realize you don't 00:12:01.164 --> 00:12:03.784 want to work with this person and you decide, you know what, after this, 00:12:03.784 --> 00:12:07.444 I'm just going to, I'm just going to pump the brakes and, and move on. 00:12:07.544 --> 00:12:10.584 matt: On the website, you have two platforms siren affiliates. 00:12:10.754 --> 00:12:13.494 com You have two platforms in the primary nav woocommerce and 00:12:13.494 --> 00:12:18.879 and lifter lms technically I'm assuming, but you can fill me in. 00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:25.239 Technically, if somebody were selling a 200 course slash guide, and you were an 00:12:25.239 --> 00:12:29.099 affiliate to that, and then the person had an upsell in the back end for, let's 00:12:29.099 --> 00:12:31.749 say that 1, 500 website build out, right? 00:12:31.749 --> 00:12:36.509 Maybe they do a website in a day kind of thing, but the lead in is that 200 course. 00:12:37.199 --> 00:12:41.079 Technically, you know, if you sell that 200 course, but then that 00:12:41.079 --> 00:12:45.859 same person who bought that course buys the 1, 500 website build. 00:12:45.999 --> 00:12:50.249 Is there technically a way to glue that together where the affiliate is 00:12:50.249 --> 00:12:52.619 making money on that 1500 sale as well? 00:12:53.754 --> 00:12:54.654 alex: Oh yeah, for sure. 00:12:54.734 --> 00:12:55.504 it's, it's not. 00:12:55.584 --> 00:12:59.034 I mean, it's not, that's not the default behavior, but it's definitely doable. 00:12:59.044 --> 00:13:02.504 I mean, if, if something converts, you know, over, you can, you 00:13:02.504 --> 00:13:03.564 can, you can definitely do 00:13:03.634 --> 00:13:06.404 matt: because I can, because that's one of the challenges and I was going to put 00:13:06.404 --> 00:13:10.914 you on the hot seat a little bit on the, on the, on the web services side is while 00:13:10.914 --> 00:13:14.554 it's easy for us to say, yeah, you know, you make the course and lead these people 00:13:14.554 --> 00:13:20.564 in, but if your meat and potatoes is, I don't know, 5, website, 5, 000 website, 00:13:20.564 --> 00:13:24.524 I mean, minimally 2, 500 bucks, you're, somebody's going to want to talk to you. 00:13:24.854 --> 00:13:25.084 All right. 00:13:25.094 --> 00:13:27.154 Like they're going to, they're going to be like, Hey, so, you 00:13:27.154 --> 00:13:28.584 know, tell me about this service. 00:13:28.604 --> 00:13:29.694 What other sites have you built? 00:13:29.984 --> 00:13:30.379 You know, yeah. 00:13:30.569 --> 00:13:33.339 Maybe you'll get by 25, but 5, 000 certainly you're 00:13:33.349 --> 00:13:34.749 having a phone call, right? 00:13:34.989 --> 00:13:36.559 And, and that's the part where. 00:13:37.169 --> 00:13:38.729 An affiliate might lose out. 00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:43.559 Is there like some kind of manual reciprocity that you have in the 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:47.279 software where somebody says, Oh, you know what, let me pay out Alex because 00:13:47.419 --> 00:13:51.339 I can manually pay out Alex because I know that's a customer he sent and I can 00:13:51.349 --> 00:13:53.019 manually pay him through the software. 00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:53.829 Does that exist? 00:13:53.839 --> 00:13:54.489 Is that a thing? 00:13:55.474 --> 00:13:55.724 alex: Yeah. 00:13:55.724 --> 00:13:59.464 That's an option, but technically the way I would approach this, if, if I 00:13:59.464 --> 00:14:04.144 was trying to sell a 5, 000 product directly on my website and I wanted 00:14:04.144 --> 00:14:07.764 to use an affiliate program for it, I wouldn't create a single program. 00:14:07.834 --> 00:14:10.694 I would end up creating probably two, at least two. 00:14:10.914 --> 00:14:14.934 to one of the programs would be focused on generating leads, which is more akin 00:14:14.934 --> 00:14:16.534 to the traditional affiliate program. 00:14:16.804 --> 00:14:19.654 the leads, they don't get paid for those leads until the lead actually 00:14:19.654 --> 00:14:23.234 converts, like actually makes a purchase, but they will get credit 00:14:23.294 --> 00:14:24.964 when that conversion happens. 00:14:25.294 --> 00:14:29.024 And then I also have, would have a second program that's focused on sales, right? 00:14:29.024 --> 00:14:30.574 So it's more traditional salesmanship. 00:14:30.604 --> 00:14:33.854 it might be, you know, doing webinars, conversion focused webinars. 00:14:33.884 --> 00:14:34.714 It might be. 00:14:35.189 --> 00:14:38.859 you know, taking those calls, doing the scope or, or outsourcing the scope 00:14:38.859 --> 00:14:42.469 or doing whatever needs to be done to be able to actually make that happen. 00:14:42.499 --> 00:14:42.679 Right. 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:46.199 And obviously those two programs are very different in terms of how much they 00:14:46.199 --> 00:14:50.079 pay out and you know, what each person gets, maybe the lead is on a fixed 00:14:50.079 --> 00:14:55.089 rate, maybe they, they get a, you know, a hard stop at 200 for a conversion. 00:14:55.119 --> 00:14:58.159 It could be a percentage as well for that lead based one. 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:00.119 It just depends on how you want to approach that. 00:15:00.169 --> 00:15:00.469 Right. 00:15:00.569 --> 00:15:03.179 but by creating two programs, you're essentially. 00:15:03.579 --> 00:15:06.919 Solving the problem that you're talking about where, you want to make 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:11.209 sure that an affiliate does get the opportunity to be able to actually earn 00:15:11.219 --> 00:15:15.399 the credit for bringing that lead in the first place and having the two part 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.229 approach like that works really well because they need each other, right? 00:15:18.229 --> 00:15:18.949 The leads. 00:15:19.299 --> 00:15:21.489 The lead generators need the salespeople to convert and the 00:15:21.489 --> 00:15:24.139 salespeople need the lead generators to bring them the leads in the first 00:15:24.329 --> 00:15:29.649 matt: And when you think about that strategy, is that program like the lead 00:15:29.659 --> 00:15:31.499 program, does that have to be free? 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:33.269 Do you recommend it be free? 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.999 Something that somebody opts into and then the upsell. 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.379 Or do you think nah man, today people should just opt in for at least a 00:15:39.379 --> 00:15:42.439 hundred bucks, couple hundred bucks to buy this thing because everyone's 00:15:42.439 --> 00:15:43.869 getting better value out of this? 00:15:45.189 --> 00:15:49.509 alex: I think that the lead program is really just for me, it's, it's 00:15:49.509 --> 00:15:51.189 literally just a link and affiliate link. 00:15:51.199 --> 00:15:52.979 So if I, you know what I mean? 00:15:52.979 --> 00:15:56.949 So if I I'm driving traffic to a specific landing page, it could also be, you know, 00:15:56.949 --> 00:16:00.189 like they, they fill out a form with like gravity forms or something like that. 00:16:00.199 --> 00:16:00.549 And. 00:16:01.034 --> 00:16:04.754 whenever that form is filled out, that counts as the lead and that awards 00:16:04.754 --> 00:16:09.884 the lead to a specific affiliate so that whenever, that lead converts 00:16:09.884 --> 00:16:11.694 later on, then they get credit for it. 00:16:12.219 --> 00:16:12.619 matt: Gotcha. 00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:18.149 Yeah, I mean, again, I think that, going back to the freelancer, 00:16:18.149 --> 00:16:21.909 especially the freelancer who, you know, might be struggling, this is a 00:16:21.909 --> 00:16:26.019 great way to differentiate yourself. 00:16:26.354 --> 00:16:26.674 Right. 00:16:26.674 --> 00:16:30.384 Using a, using a, having a program like this and then also thinking, well, let 00:16:30.384 --> 00:16:35.164 me start with an entry level course, whatever that might be, or guide, because 00:16:35.174 --> 00:16:39.824 finding those clients and networking are two components that are really hard 00:16:39.824 --> 00:16:43.304 in the beginning, but once they sort of snowball together and that thing 00:16:43.304 --> 00:16:46.274 starts rolling down the mountain, that's where the business is made, right? 00:16:46.364 --> 00:16:50.964 You know, referrals from not just customer like word of mouth, but, Yeah. 00:16:50.964 --> 00:16:50.994 Yeah. 00:16:50.994 --> 00:16:51.024 Yeah. 00:16:51.184 --> 00:16:53.604 You know, if you're in the WordPress space, a lot of us spend time talking 00:16:53.604 --> 00:16:57.814 to other folks in the WordPress space, we need to know who, what do you do? 00:16:57.844 --> 00:16:58.744 What do you stand for? 00:16:58.744 --> 00:16:59.784 What's your differentiator? 00:16:59.794 --> 00:17:02.294 So that when I talk to somebody else, I go, Oh, you know, go check out that 00:17:02.304 --> 00:17:05.684 thing that Alex has, or go check out that thing that Matt has or Mark has. 00:17:05.694 --> 00:17:07.444 And I know where I can send you. 00:17:07.474 --> 00:17:11.314 And if I can make a few bucks off, off the side of it, even better, 00:17:12.344 --> 00:17:13.504 it's even, it's even better. 00:17:14.264 --> 00:17:14.714 Um, 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:18.109 back to the hot seat for a second. 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:20.249 I want to talk about the pricing that you have right now. 00:17:20.249 --> 00:17:21.779 Now we're recording this May 20th. 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.589 You are set to launch June, July? 00:17:25.099 --> 00:17:25.519 June 4th. 00:17:26.179 --> 00:17:27.829 49 lifetime deal. 00:17:29.459 --> 00:17:29.999 So the hot, 00:17:30.064 --> 00:17:30.724 alex: little crazy. 00:17:30.724 --> 00:17:30.964 I know. 00:17:30.989 --> 00:17:34.639 matt: seat is 49 bucks and lifetime deal. 00:17:34.949 --> 00:17:36.649 Tell me about that decision. 00:17:37.164 --> 00:17:40.864 alex: Yeah, it's, it's, I've been describing it in my internal 00:17:40.864 --> 00:17:43.314 monologues as stupidly low. 00:17:43.384 --> 00:17:46.934 and I'm aware of that and it's not, it's, it's not going to be there for long. 00:17:46.974 --> 00:17:47.794 I'm going to be honest. 00:17:47.804 --> 00:17:52.034 The, the goal and the entire reason why I'm doing it is because I want 00:17:52.034 --> 00:17:53.664 to get this plugin in people's hands. 00:17:53.804 --> 00:17:55.104 I want to see people trying this. 00:17:55.234 --> 00:17:56.314 I want to see people using this. 00:17:56.344 --> 00:17:58.464 I'm interested in helping them succeed. 00:17:58.484 --> 00:18:00.324 And I want to learn what. 00:18:00.944 --> 00:18:03.954 People, how people are using this so that I can build it better. 00:18:04.324 --> 00:18:09.604 And the quickest way for me to do that is to offer a ridiculously low deal 00:18:09.644 --> 00:18:14.414 that, you know, I'm only ever going to offer once I'm literally never, 00:18:14.624 --> 00:18:16.944 ever going to make this offer again. 00:18:17.054 --> 00:18:19.524 and it's, it's just this one time, this one moment. 00:18:20.164 --> 00:18:25.794 to, you know, get people in and, I mean, it pays to be the early bird for sure. 00:18:25.804 --> 00:18:26.104 In this 00:18:26.229 --> 00:18:30.179 matt: We'll call it Alex's almost ridiculously free plan because I 00:18:30.179 --> 00:18:32.419 mean, it's 49 for a lifetime deal. 00:18:32.419 --> 00:18:36.199 It's, it's pretty much free, at the, at that point, especially if you're 00:18:36.334 --> 00:18:36.514 alex: Yeah. 00:18:36.514 --> 00:18:37.354 I'm basically giving it 00:18:37.414 --> 00:18:38.324 matt: you're making money off of it. 00:18:38.634 --> 00:18:39.964 So, let's unpack it. 00:18:40.224 --> 00:18:43.834 What's your strategy for finding, for finding affiliates for, for 00:18:43.834 --> 00:18:45.094 this plugin, what are you doing? 00:18:45.094 --> 00:18:46.694 I know you're appearing on podcasts, of course. 00:18:46.694 --> 00:18:49.134 What else are you doing to sort of rally the troops to, to join 00:18:50.244 --> 00:18:52.564 alex: Well, obviously I'm going to come, I'm doing exactly what 00:18:52.564 --> 00:18:53.484 I was just saying a minute ago. 00:18:53.484 --> 00:18:55.064 I'm going to vertical specific conferences. 00:18:55.074 --> 00:18:56.974 In my case, that starts with WordPress, right? 00:18:56.994 --> 00:18:59.794 I'm really well networked in this space, so I'm just starting there. 00:18:59.824 --> 00:19:02.514 I've actually already had a few people reach out to me. 00:19:02.919 --> 00:19:05.379 And I've asked, to be on the affiliate program. 00:19:05.549 --> 00:19:07.199 So there's, there's that too. 00:19:07.289 --> 00:19:10.639 I've been noodling around the idea of creating a blog content bonus 00:19:10.639 --> 00:19:14.879 program on my site to allow people to write content on sirenaffiliates. 00:19:14.909 --> 00:19:18.329 com and get credit for whenever anybody reads their post. 00:19:18.904 --> 00:19:22.164 I've been thinking about a few different other ideas on top of that, that I'm, 00:19:22.234 --> 00:19:26.834 I'm not quite ready to announce or any say anything about yet, but mom, 00:19:27.114 --> 00:19:29.984 the gist is pretty much, yeah, I'm going to start by networking, talking 00:19:29.984 --> 00:19:33.224 to people, talking to the YouTubers in the space, the podcasters, the. 00:19:33.854 --> 00:19:38.574 You know, the, just the, the media in general around WordPress and then, 00:19:38.734 --> 00:19:43.334 probably start branching out into more generic, places outside of this space. 00:19:43.614 --> 00:19:46.874 but really I'm just kind of, I'm starting with one. 00:19:46.874 --> 00:19:48.204 I know, and I know WordPress 00:19:48.514 --> 00:19:50.524 matt: a, you could buy yourself a hazmat suit before you go 00:19:50.524 --> 00:19:51.514 to an affiliate conference. 00:19:52.904 --> 00:19:53.374 alex: probably. 00:19:53.374 --> 00:19:58.264 I 00:19:58.339 --> 00:19:59.809 matt: the fallout series on Amazon? 00:20:00.979 --> 00:20:01.249 All right. 00:20:01.529 --> 00:20:03.579 And there's, it's you know, they're whatever it is. 00:20:03.589 --> 00:20:06.669 It's there's a utopia inside, you know, where they are. 00:20:06.669 --> 00:20:07.539 Everything's great. 00:20:07.539 --> 00:20:10.019 And then you go out to the, like this nuclear wasteland and it's Oh 00:20:10.134 --> 00:20:11.074 alex: it's like desolate. 00:20:11.154 --> 00:20:11.514 Yeah. 00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:15.629 matt: I know that's not, not the way it all is, but, it's the 00:20:15.629 --> 00:20:19.079 unfortunate stigma because, yeah, I mean, I get bombarded all the time 00:20:19.089 --> 00:20:22.839 with folks who are in the WordPress space, making WordPress products. 00:20:23.169 --> 00:20:25.789 And they're just like, Hey, you know, review our stuff. 00:20:25.789 --> 00:20:26.909 We'll give you this affiliate link. 00:20:26.909 --> 00:20:28.669 And it's just constant noise. 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.589 and the relationship side is really. 00:20:31.944 --> 00:20:34.264 you know, where I want to exist. 00:20:34.264 --> 00:20:37.744 Like I want to have a relationship with trusted software and maybe 00:20:37.774 --> 00:20:41.164 like 80 percent of the time, not even get paid out for anything. 00:20:41.164 --> 00:20:42.814 I just want to recommend good stuff. 00:20:43.384 --> 00:20:43.874 talk to me, 00:20:44.364 --> 00:20:44.974 alex: And honest, 00:20:45.094 --> 00:20:45.834 matt: No, you unpack that. 00:20:46.914 --> 00:20:47.114 alex: Okay. 00:20:47.164 --> 00:20:49.294 honestly, I mean, that's kind of a big thing. 00:20:49.294 --> 00:20:52.924 So I've got a, I've got a guide that I wrote for, people to talk about 00:20:52.924 --> 00:20:54.574 how to build their affiliate program. 00:20:54.654 --> 00:20:59.174 And that's a big recurring theme for me whenever I'm talking about it is 00:20:59.224 --> 00:21:03.014 Your relationship with your affiliates should be focused on authenticity. 00:21:03.044 --> 00:21:06.324 You should be focused on finding people who are really excited about 00:21:06.324 --> 00:21:08.904 your product, actually believe in your product and want to do this. 00:21:09.144 --> 00:21:11.544 If you're just reaching out to people saying, Hey, you can make, if you're 00:21:11.544 --> 00:21:14.654 just reaching out to podcasters and YouTubers, and you're just like, Hey, I've 00:21:14.654 --> 00:21:16.584 got this product, you want to sell it? 00:21:16.824 --> 00:21:18.504 They're not going to be interested, you know? 00:21:18.894 --> 00:21:25.124 So, and, and, because, you know, you have an audience and you realize that 00:21:25.124 --> 00:21:27.644 that audience has a value to you and. 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:33.049 Those people and you don't want to squander that or lose that 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:37.469 audience Chilling out something that doesn't feel authentic, right? 00:21:37.469 --> 00:21:39.889 all the great podcasters and people like that. 00:21:40.179 --> 00:21:41.579 They're always authentic, right? 00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.249 There's always an authenticity level to it. 00:21:43.249 --> 00:21:47.104 Even if if you think about more traditional, like bigger 00:21:47.404 --> 00:21:49.964 affiliate program, people like Pat Flynn comes to mind, right? 00:21:50.134 --> 00:21:52.684 With his, SPI podcast and all that stuff. 00:21:53.054 --> 00:21:58.044 smart, passive income or whatever he, you know, he is an affiliate marketer. 00:21:58.084 --> 00:22:01.314 Like he is the first one I think of whenever I think of affiliate marketing. 00:22:01.364 --> 00:22:04.234 And if you just listen to him, how he talks about his relationship 00:22:04.234 --> 00:22:05.104 with affiliate marketing, right? 00:22:05.314 --> 00:22:07.044 It's always about authenticity. 00:22:07.044 --> 00:22:10.264 It's always about, I use this product myself. 00:22:10.294 --> 00:22:12.814 I believe in this product and therefore I'm going to recommend it. 00:22:13.754 --> 00:22:17.284 And, so I'm always saying like people, not numbers, don't forget it. 00:22:17.314 --> 00:22:21.804 And honestly, I don't even recommend the thing it gets me is a lot of 00:22:21.814 --> 00:22:24.304 people will be like, how do I get my first a hundred affiliates? 00:22:24.304 --> 00:22:26.274 How do I get my first, you know, 500 affiliates or whatever? 00:22:26.824 --> 00:22:29.054 And I'm like, why are you talking about a hundred? 00:22:29.054 --> 00:22:35.414 You need 10, you know, because, because most, most of these programs, like 00:22:35.414 --> 00:22:39.694 if you look at almost any affiliate program and you look at their numbers, 00:22:40.094 --> 00:22:43.314 almost all of them have this same pattern where they'll have a thousand 00:22:43.314 --> 00:22:49.694 affiliates and 10 of them or 50 of them pretty much do all of the sales, right? 00:22:49.904 --> 00:22:52.934 So why are you trying to get a thousand when really what you need are 50 00:22:52.934 --> 00:22:54.894 good ones or 10 good ones, right? 00:22:54.904 --> 00:22:55.274 So. 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.409 And those good ones are the ones that are authentic and 00:22:58.409 --> 00:23:00.069 focused on those relationships. 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.719 So skip that bull crap and just find the people who are your biggest 00:23:03.719 --> 00:23:07.499 fans who have an audience who you can run with and run with them. 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:09.599 matt: Because it's also more problems. 00:23:09.689 --> 00:23:13.899 It's when you have, especially in the affiliate side, when you have a thousand 00:23:13.929 --> 00:23:17.819 people in there, it's just, it's an overhead for more issues where, you know, 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:20.979 they're not following brand guidelines, they're doing shady stuff with your links. 00:23:20.999 --> 00:23:23.759 You know, they're putting your product alongside other products you 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.019 don't want to be represented with. 00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:29.979 So, you know, if you, if you can cultivate that, you know, and, and, and, It 00:23:29.979 --> 00:23:32.069 almost is, it's like the same issues. 00:23:32.069 --> 00:23:34.239 If you're building a membership site, one of the hardest things is 00:23:34.239 --> 00:23:37.449 like engagement, getting people to come back, doing all that stuff. 00:23:37.449 --> 00:23:41.509 So, you know, if you can work closely with people who are also making money with you. 00:23:41.969 --> 00:23:44.009 I think it's just a better fit, right? 00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:44.569 It's a better fit. 00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:48.459 It's almost like you can almost have a mini sales outsource sales force in a way. 00:23:48.459 --> 00:23:50.029 And it's, it's a pretty cool thing. 00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:52.849 before we start running out of time, I want to talk about this. 00:23:53.739 --> 00:23:56.059 I don't know what you, you labeled, you said it and I heard you talking about with 00:23:56.059 --> 00:24:00.519 Chris before too, but being able to get paid out, by contributing to a blog, it 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.979 sounds You know, it's not massive payouts, but it's like this recurring thing. 00:24:03.979 --> 00:24:05.759 Maybe the more you blog, the more you get paid out. 00:24:05.769 --> 00:24:08.849 Tell me about that model you've incorporated into this plugin. 00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:10.439 alex: Sure. 00:24:10.459 --> 00:24:12.609 So, this was kind of inspired by, I don't know if you 00:24:12.609 --> 00:24:14.239 remember, it was called Squidoo. 00:24:14.439 --> 00:24:17.839 It was a, a blogging platform that Seth Godin made back in 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.794 the two thousands where Yeah. 00:24:20.794 --> 00:24:24.804 So, so the, the concept was basically you publish what they called lenses 00:24:24.804 --> 00:24:29.764 and they were basically blog posts on Squidoo and, he would pay you based 00:24:29.764 --> 00:24:33.934 on the amount of traffic you got to your site based on the revenue shares. 00:24:33.944 --> 00:24:38.114 So if you, if you, you know, if the, if Squidoo as a whole, the blog as a 00:24:38.114 --> 00:24:42.974 whole received a thousand dollars at over the course of a month, and you 00:24:43.284 --> 00:24:47.559 were the majority of the traffic, you're going to get the biggest cut of revenue. 00:24:48.209 --> 00:24:48.779 Those profits. 00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:50.759 So there's all kinds of different ways you can build these. 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:54.699 Like siren doesn't necessarily say let's build a blog program or 00:24:54.699 --> 00:24:55.909 let's build an affiliate program. 00:24:55.919 --> 00:24:56.949 What it says is. 00:24:57.414 --> 00:25:01.054 It lets you break it down into three or four different things that 00:25:01.064 --> 00:25:03.174 happen in different ways to pay out. 00:25:03.234 --> 00:25:08.324 And you, you basically define when a person gets credit for the traffic, for 00:25:08.324 --> 00:25:13.474 the, the customer, the opportunity you put out, how much they get paid and you 00:25:13.474 --> 00:25:18.704 put out how, that money gets divided among the people who it could, could win it. 00:25:18.714 --> 00:25:23.354 So if you wanted to pay, If you had 50 bloggers and all of them were 00:25:23.354 --> 00:25:26.094 writing content on your site, you could actually set it up to where, 00:25:26.494 --> 00:25:30.244 at the end of the month, you know, whoever gets, whoever wrote the most 00:25:30.454 --> 00:25:35.094 stuff gets the majority of the, the, the revenue share for that month. 00:25:35.334 --> 00:25:40.044 Or in my case, you could, where I'm more lead focused than I am on revenue with ads 00:25:40.044 --> 00:25:42.074 or anything like that, you can go with. 00:25:43.174 --> 00:25:45.014 Basically treating it like an affiliate link. 00:25:45.014 --> 00:25:49.954 So if an affiliate sends, a person to a blog post that somebody 00:25:49.954 --> 00:25:53.504 else wrote, and that per that's two separate programs, right? 00:25:53.534 --> 00:25:53.804 Right. 00:25:53.804 --> 00:25:54.754 One's an affiliate program. 00:25:54.754 --> 00:25:56.344 One's a blog content bonus program. 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.519 And both of them would be able to get paid should that person 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:02.149 who visits that blog convert. 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:06.189 So you can set it up to where you can stack these different programs on 00:26:06.189 --> 00:26:09.259 top of each other and it all kind of lets you create, it lets you create 00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:13.269 this like organic, collaboration between these different people, right? 00:26:13.269 --> 00:26:17.309 Because you have affiliates who need a reason to send a link, an 00:26:17.309 --> 00:26:20.099 affiliate link or need content to send affiliate links for. 00:26:20.374 --> 00:26:24.694 And then you have bloggers who are writing that content and need people 00:26:24.694 --> 00:26:27.554 to send, traffic to their content. 00:26:27.944 --> 00:26:30.454 And then, you know, you've got the person who's actually running the platform 00:26:30.454 --> 00:26:33.064 itself to be able to actually get those conversions and earn that money. 00:26:33.094 --> 00:26:37.544 So you're able to, create these different ways to, dynamically and organically, 00:26:37.594 --> 00:26:38.944 allow these people to work together. 00:26:39.209 --> 00:26:40.329 matt: a concept. 00:26:40.329 --> 00:26:44.119 I don't want to bore the audience or you, but there's this concept. 00:26:44.179 --> 00:26:46.689 there's an open source side to, to podcasting that many 00:26:46.689 --> 00:26:47.299 folks don't know about. 00:26:47.299 --> 00:26:48.824 It's called podcasting 2. 00:26:48.824 --> 00:26:49.069 0. 00:26:49.069 --> 00:26:51.989 There is their own podcast index, equivalent to wordpress. 00:26:51.989 --> 00:26:53.309 org having a bunch of podcasts. 00:26:54.304 --> 00:26:57.664 It's the alternative to say, Apple podcasts and Spotify 00:26:57.664 --> 00:27:00.234 directories, all that stuff. 00:27:00.794 --> 00:27:04.474 And they have a whole, open source movement about improving RSS feeds and 00:27:04.494 --> 00:27:08.844 adding stuff to podcasting RSS, just like WordPress improves, the RSS feed improves. 00:27:08.844 --> 00:27:10.499 And, And the anti podcasting 2. 00:27:10.499 --> 00:27:15.769 0 again, you go back to Spotify, Apple, YouTube, those who don't 00:27:15.769 --> 00:27:19.439 want to enhance RSS cause they want everything on their platforms. 00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:22.669 but the point I'm getting at is they have this thing called value for 00:27:22.669 --> 00:27:26.009 value inside RSS is being pioneered. 00:27:26.229 --> 00:27:28.554 You know, the unfortunate side of it is it's, it's being, It's 00:27:28.584 --> 00:27:30.584 pioneered by, Bitcoin technology. 00:27:30.994 --> 00:27:34.414 So you would have to use an app that's compatible. 00:27:34.444 --> 00:27:37.914 There's a bunch of podcasting apps that are compatible podcasting apps. 00:27:37.914 --> 00:27:38.154 com. 00:27:38.154 --> 00:27:38.684 You'll find it. 00:27:39.134 --> 00:27:42.044 and what you do is you load up a digital wallet, you know, you buy a little bit 00:27:42.044 --> 00:27:43.724 of Bitcoin for 50 bucks or whatever. 00:27:44.074 --> 00:27:46.404 And then when you're using these apps. 00:27:46.784 --> 00:27:48.564 and a podcast is podcasting 2. 00:27:48.564 --> 00:27:54.314 0 enabled, you can actually stream what's known as Satoshi's, the smallest form 00:27:54.314 --> 00:27:59.444 of Bitcoin to the podcaster, and you can send them like little micro payments. 00:27:59.444 --> 00:28:02.604 So it's, it's everything everyone's always wanted. 00:28:02.614 --> 00:28:05.504 The unfortunate roadblock is the Bitcoin's side of it. 00:28:05.514 --> 00:28:07.194 For a lot of people, they don't like it. 00:28:07.214 --> 00:28:09.854 It's too technical, and it is, and that's the unfortunate 00:28:09.854 --> 00:28:11.779 roadblock, but it's everything you've always wanted from you know. 00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:13.519 your cell phone, your cable bill. 00:28:13.679 --> 00:28:17.369 You're like, I just want to pay what I'm listening to, right? 00:28:17.709 --> 00:28:19.929 And, and they're, and they're starting to get into courses. 00:28:19.929 --> 00:28:20.919 Now, this is where I'm going with it. 00:28:21.069 --> 00:28:24.089 They're starting to get into, to courses and, and audio books. 00:28:24.389 --> 00:28:29.769 And basically what that means is as As a buyer, you could only 00:28:29.769 --> 00:28:32.019 pay for what you've consumed. 00:28:32.189 --> 00:28:36.569 So, instead of paying a hundred bucks for a course, you could, you would, there 00:28:36.569 --> 00:28:40.159 would be a set value that happens that the course creator would, would set. 00:28:40.629 --> 00:28:44.139 And as you watch the show, or, or, excuse me, as you watch the course, 00:28:44.139 --> 00:28:48.279 or listen to the course, you're paying whatever adds up to a hundred bucks. 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.279 But if you never finish it, you would only pay fifty bucks. 00:28:52.384 --> 00:28:54.814 but the flip side of that and the whole value for value thing 00:28:54.814 --> 00:28:57.224 is you could be like, you know what, I love this course so much. 00:28:57.484 --> 00:29:00.664 I'm going to crank up the streaming payment so that. 00:29:01.239 --> 00:29:03.979 That the creator, instead of that creator getting a hundred bucks, I'm gonna give 00:29:03.979 --> 00:29:06.909 him three hundred bucks when I complete this course, you know, and it kind of 00:29:07.009 --> 00:29:13.459 adds this dynamic to the whole, content consumption, side of things, I don't 00:29:13.469 --> 00:29:16.469 have no question there, that was just a soapbox moment because that's what your, 00:29:16.719 --> 00:29:21.179 that's what your blogging, scenario sounds like to me, it's You create content. 00:29:21.189 --> 00:29:23.629 If it's valuable and people come, I'll pay you out. 00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:26.479 They're kind of doing this now with podcasting, but in a more 00:29:26.719 --> 00:29:28.649 technical, you know, sense. 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:32.229 And I think it's a really cool way to start thinking about creating like 00:29:32.229 --> 00:29:35.829 these content communities and other avenues for, for content creators. 00:29:36.929 --> 00:29:37.769 alex: Yeah, for sure. 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:41.649 It's, it's, I'm, I'm really excited about all of that. 00:29:41.689 --> 00:29:45.999 Cause I think that, we need more options like that for content. 00:29:46.089 --> 00:29:49.009 especially with what's going on with, you know, a lot of bloggers and stuff with 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:53.249 Google and everything that's happening, related to them having to pivot, right. 00:29:53.249 --> 00:29:55.769 Because Google is changing their algorithm and all that stuff. 00:29:56.564 --> 00:30:01.434 I, the thing that gets me is all of this stuff kind of ties into that idea, the 00:30:01.434 --> 00:30:06.034 idea of Loosening that grip a little to me like if we're gonna get really like big 00:30:06.034 --> 00:30:10.459 and heady like that's that's kind of what I think About a lot with this is like the 00:30:10.459 --> 00:30:15.609 siren to me kind of feels so fundamental to the web in a lot of ways, where it's, 00:30:15.659 --> 00:30:20.089 it's, you know, if you think back to like blog roles and you think about like people 00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:23.929 who were, you know, had a list of just links of other websites that they liked 00:30:23.969 --> 00:30:25.309 just because they thought they were cool. 00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:29.099 And like the entire web was interconnected just by a series of websites that 00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:30.509 were like connected to each other. 00:30:30.509 --> 00:30:30.729 Right. 00:30:30.729 --> 00:30:32.339 It was federated in a lot of ways. 00:30:32.899 --> 00:30:38.159 And, I, A lot for me, like the vision of siren isn't just 00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:39.279 to be an affiliate program. 00:30:39.289 --> 00:30:46.659 It's to be a way to allow, a company or a business like that to incentivize and, 00:30:46.709 --> 00:30:51.839 you know, give credit to people for that kind of thing to help them everywhere 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.354 from a full on sales, like You know, a car dealership, literally just creating 00:30:56.354 --> 00:31:01.484 a whole sales platform on their site, using it, but also like for people who are 00:31:01.484 --> 00:31:04.674 trying to do, to monetize and, and help. 00:31:05.154 --> 00:31:08.784 writers actually get paid for their writing without necessarily relying 00:31:08.794 --> 00:31:10.454 on ad revenue and stuff like that. 00:31:10.879 --> 00:31:11.219 matt: Yeah. 00:31:11.259 --> 00:31:13.859 It's, you know, it's, yes, a hundred, we could talk about this forever. 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:17.879 Like the silos of social, social media, you know, what if, what if, okay. 00:31:18.019 --> 00:31:21.619 RSS really won the technical war, 20 years 00:31:21.704 --> 00:31:21.834 alex: Oh 00:31:21.929 --> 00:31:22.149 matt: right? 00:31:22.149 --> 00:31:26.349 If, if we all had an RSS link, like we have a website, and every, and 00:31:26.349 --> 00:31:27.539 it was just a ubiquitous thing. 00:31:27.549 --> 00:31:29.429 Everybody understood what RSS was. 00:31:29.699 --> 00:31:31.109 And you'd be like, oh yeah, just go to my RSS link. 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:32.909 That's where all my content comes out. 00:31:33.374 --> 00:31:37.454 it's the freest way of delivering content to the entire world, yet 00:31:37.464 --> 00:31:40.254 humanity chose social media platforms. 00:31:40.514 --> 00:31:44.744 Because they were faster, sexier, and, you know, you did a lot of cool 00:31:44.744 --> 00:31:47.054 things, started sharing photos with people, then you could like it, and 00:31:47.054 --> 00:31:48.574 be like, oh my god, this is amazing. 00:31:48.774 --> 00:31:51.809 Meanwhile, RSS is standing in the corner going, no, We could do the 00:31:51.809 --> 00:31:56.549 same things with this old antiquated technology and you would own it, right? 00:31:56.549 --> 00:31:59.199 There'd be no ads in between your content. 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:00.089 alex: I know. 00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:01.029 It could have been so great. 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:02.179 I think about it all the 00:32:02.344 --> 00:32:03.644 matt: Google knew it, right? 00:32:03.644 --> 00:32:05.944 That's why they killed off, killed RSS. 00:32:06.574 --> 00:32:09.934 And, and they just killed their podcast app, which is you know, now, now, now 00:32:09.934 --> 00:32:13.094 they're telling people like, oh, YouTube's going to be the savior of, Podcasts. 00:32:13.094 --> 00:32:13.744 Yeah, like that. 00:32:13.884 --> 00:32:17.064 What don't you realize they're doing it 00:32:17.149 --> 00:32:18.009 alex: I've been on this. 00:32:18.429 --> 00:32:19.819 I've been on this ride before. 00:32:20.749 --> 00:32:21.709 I know where this is going. 00:32:22.254 --> 00:32:23.054 matt: Alex is fantastic. 00:32:23.064 --> 00:32:23.754 Conversation. 00:32:23.804 --> 00:32:24.834 siren affiliates. 00:32:25.094 --> 00:32:25.434 com. 00:32:25.444 --> 00:32:26.964 We're going to get this episode out because I know you're 00:32:26.964 --> 00:32:29.244 launching on the 4th, June 4th. 00:32:29.534 --> 00:32:32.374 right now, if you're hearing this and it's still available, I'd grab that 00:32:32.384 --> 00:32:34.894 49 lifetime, almost free crazy deal. 00:32:35.224 --> 00:32:36.284 that Alex has put together. 00:32:36.284 --> 00:32:37.784 Siren affiliates. 00:32:37.984 --> 00:32:39.744 com anywhere else, Alex, you want folks to go. 00:32:40.959 --> 00:32:41.169 alex: nope. 00:32:41.199 --> 00:32:41.869 That'll be alright. 00:32:41.944 --> 00:32:42.954 matt: Alex, thanks for hanging out today. 00:32:44.059 --> 00:32:44.399 alex: Thanks.