Tiffany: I'm Tiffany-
Alexis: I'm Alexis-
Tiffany: I'm the founder- I'm the founder-
Alexis: [laugher]
Tiffany: How many times- We're going to just keep it trying to-
Alexis: Alright alright ok.
Sorry.
I'm just gonna let you go.
As soon as you introduce yourself then I'll say my thing.
Tiffany: Welcome to our podcast.
Probably Nothing is always something when it comes to NFTs.
I'm Tiffany, Zhong the founder and CEO of Islands, and I'm joining forces with
Alexis to create the one-stop podcast for NFT news, deep dives, and interviews.
Expect many interviews with the most interesting guests from upcoming
industry leaders, such as NFT project creators to community leaders,
to Guild founders, and many more.
Alexis: I'm Alexis Ohanian, founder, and former executive chairman
of Reddit and presently founder managing partner of Seven Seven Six.
And I'm very excited because this podcast is going to make me
feel very old, but in a good way.
because we're going to get to explore all the latest emerging
trends in all things, web3.
Tiffany: So, Alexis, what are NFTs and why are you so excited about them?
Alexis: Gosh, you know, the best way to describe it.
So it's a digital asset where the ownership is tracked on a
blockchain, Ethereum, the most popular flavor right now for that.
The assets themselves can be anything, you know, they could be any
kind of digital goods, like things that'll exist in virtual worlds.
Um, to claims you can almost think of them as like deeds on physical assets.
And in coming years NFTs, the technology are going to evolve in ways that I can't
even predict, but like that's part of the fun of building and investing in
this space is that we're talking about the infrastructure for a new internet.
That's reallywhat web3 is, and it's an internet where you basically have
money or value and ownership in a way that takes advantage of all the
benefits of the digital world that is like infinite scale and distribution
and virality, but still maintains a few of the benefits from the analog world.
Like being able to have scarcity and being able to prove verifiably, that this
is yours, and I'm now giving it to you.
It's wild.
We've seen I mean profile pics.
PFPs are probably the trend that most of you have encountered right now,
but it's just the start and it is not.
It is not as simple as just right.
Clicking and saving the JPEG in order to steal the asset.
Uh, it is actually a way to frankly, spread the value.
And so when someone wants to right click and save my Cryptopunk
of Serena, I say, go for it.
Please do, please put that everywhere you can, because it will just make
the verifiable original more valuable.
Tiffany: So this PFP NFT phenomenon, let's break that down for people who
don't understand what that is yet, but are seeing people, celebrities, tech,
entrepreneurs, all sorts of people, artists changing the profile picture
to something that they don't know.
It's usually an animal.
I think you recently changed her profile picture to an ape.
Alexis: Yes, I aped in.
Tiffany: My profile picture is a, cat.
Alexis: A Cool Cat at that.
Tiffany: Exactly.
So why, why is Twitter now?
How did Twitter become a zoo of animal profile pictures?
Alexis: Uh, it's interesting.
This has been.
Twitter has lived many lives.
And this is a company that in a lot of ways, I wouldn't say resurrect- was
resurrected, but has been reinvented now in the last year and a half.
And you know, we all now know the profile pic.
Again, in 2005, starting Reddit.
No one was thinking about a profile pic, right?
Facebook still existed in colleges.
There was no Twitter.
So if you were thinking about putting a photo of yourself on the internet, you
were thinking kind of like MySpace or Facebook, where it's a photo of yourself.
In fact, you know what?
No, I know for a fact I uploaded the Reddit.
I uploaded Snoo as a, uh, person quote unquote on Facebook.
And the account was banned after reached a few hundred thousand, uh, friends.
It was banned because it was an impersonation of a non-real
person, or is it a non-real entity.
And Facebook needed to have real people on the platform.
And that, that was, uh, you know, part of the ethos of Facebook.
But you know, in the last 15 years we see more and more platforms and more, more
people get comfortable with the idea of an avatar and look, mascots are cute.
I'm a big fan of mascots.
Uh, that's why I created the Reddit one.
That's why I've kind of created them for every company I've done.
And I just think there's something about the whimsical nature
of being able to change your profile photo to some creature.
That then signals a sense of identity to a tribe, whether it's the Bored Apes
or Cool Cats that it creates the same sense of community that like a platform
such as Reddit has, but it's doing it across very different boundaries.
It's, it's- it's like wearing a particular article of clothing walking
down the street, ah, sports Jersey.
Right.
If I see someone wearing an Angel City jersey, And I'm
wearing an Angel City jersey.
We can give each other a knowing nod because we recognize
we're in the same tribe.
We've both opted into that tribe.
Anybody could join that tribe as long as you can get an Angel
City jersey and be a part of it.
And as a species, we humans love this.
It makes us feel good.
It makes us feel seen.
And what you're seeing with PFPs is the digital version of that.
And it's a V1, but the fact that it has become as big of a status
symbol as quickly as it has, is a very good indication of something
very special here, considering in the past, how much a brand like Bored Ape
Yacht Club, which started in April?
Mar- May?
It's only a few months old.
If they had- if the board of yacht club had started a t-shirt brand, like
in the vein of a Supreme or something else, and they were four months.
Maybe, maybe they would have been able to beg, borrow and steal
their way into getting Steph Curry to wear that shirt into a game.
Right.
But today, a Steph Curry is paying for the chance to associate with that community.
Right.
He's essentially paying for the t-shirt and does it, and is not
wearing it walking into the game.
He's wearing it on his profile photo for everyone to see.
And part of the reason he's doing that is because he knows the value of the
ape that he's wearing is something that accrues to him, the more people who see
value in it and want to be a part of it because supply and demand finally locks
in and he can be rewarded just like anyone listening to this for being an early
holder or early member of that community, because there is just a scarce number of
what, 10,000 I think of that one, um, that exists and, and it will never be more.
And so then what does it take to get everyone to forget
that the Bored Apes matter?
Like, I don't want to say it's impossible, but it's very, very hard to imagine
a scenario where the cultural value of that goes immediately to zero.
Like you, you, it would, it would take, it would be such an outlier event.
What you're seeing looks so weird and it has these giant price
tags on it, but people are buying into being part of a community.
And it's a special, it's a special feeling.
Cause it's not like Reddit in 05 where we had to convince people that they'd want
to participate for internet points that were worthless and leaderboards that I
devised to help encourage people to post.
But for the community of like like-minded people who all wanted to talk about
programming in the subreddit or gaming in the subreddit, but they got no
value from it at the end of the day.
I mean, they got entertainment value and they have some flex because they
have a little icon on their profile.
It says how long they've been a Redditer.
But now just with a simple JPEG at the end of the day, you have something
that accrues value like stock in a company because there's a finite supply.
And the people who want it are ever increasing and that
dynamic never existed before.
And so when I see what's happening in web3, all I think about is early days
of Reddit when it was working and, you know, has now become one of the largest
websites on the internet, but without any of the actual financial upside,
going to the people who did the work.
And that is meaningful because that pays off student loan debt that pays
the bills that buys cars and homes.
Like that's when you unlock the dollar value of that and, and properly
assess it or more, more properly assess it or more properly value
it, it will motivate amazing things.
And we're just starting to see what it does play to earn as a whole- we'll do
a whole other episode on play to earn games, but like it's, it's exciting.
Tiffany: I mean, the equity-
Alexis: I got ranty.
Tiffany: The equity in these communities.
You can actually get liquidity off of them, right?
Like in the past, you couldn't, you couldn't actually monetize your fandom.
If you're a super fan of Beyoncé or BTS, you can't monetize that you can only say
and shout at the top of your lungs, that you are an early listener or early fan.
And like, maybe you could pull up receipts of like you liking
the Facebook page in like 2010.
Alexis: Maybe some ticket stubs.
Tiffany: Yeah.
And that's about it, right?
That's worthless.
It only goes into play into like some small amount of clout, but not really.
And so what these PFP projects, I think ultimately it boils down to two
major things, social status and tribe.
Like making an NFT project, your profile picture shows that you are-
you are an owner, but you're also able to meet other owners as a result
because that is your profile picture.
So that's how you are able to find your tribe on Twitter, on social media, and
then on the social status front, as these communities start growing, you show that,
Hey, like I am actually an OG member, but going back to the Bored Apes, right?
Magdalena, Kala had a great tweet, which was like, imagine a five month
old startup with 690 million in lifetime sales, GMV, a 100 million
in revenue, and like 80 million in the, in the past 24 hours when they
dropped the Serums and the Mutant Apes.
80 million in one day, that is unheard of in any early stage company.
Alexis: Yeah, it's phenomenal.
Tiffany: Or maybe even some growth stage companies, right?
Like-
Alexis: And it's not all, especially, especially when you
consider how high leverage it was.
Cause the team, the Bored Ape team is not that big.
Right.
It's probably five, six people.
Um, you know, when you're talking about something, right, it has- they have the
advantage of time, or timing rather.
And being early in this and being, you know, among the sort of pioneers of it,
you see this all the time where some of the first baseball cards, right.
They're not even of the best players, like the Honus Wagner card, like,
Honus was a good baseball player, but it wasn't like the he's not
like Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth.
But because that card is an iconic sort of considered one of the first,
it has a value that will always exist.
Same thing.
I think with Cryptopunks, you saw that first sort of wave there because
they artwork they produced, I think Bored Apes represent that first of
a real sort of community mindset.
Like, Hey, let's create a space.
Let's think of a roadmap.
Let's build a tribe very explicitly with what we're doing and be thoughtful and
any attention to detail on the art side.
Like lots of stuff that all came together in a perfect storm.
And yeah, that's a, that's a hell of a startup, a lot of- and a VC like
myself would be happy, gratefully, like we'd be thrilled to be an
early investor in that startup.
And what's different here.
Is that there weren't VCs.
I mean, I-
Tiffany: They don't need them.
They don't need VCs.
Yeah.
Alexis: And that's, that's special.
Tiffany: It's a, it's a profitable consumer startup that gets
2.5% royalty on every sale.
That's ongoing.
That's better than SAS.
It's better than any other business model out there right now.
And so the difference between how board ape approached it versus how a lot of,
um, other early NFT projects or even celebrities approach it is the money
that they earned from selling out the apes and from royalties, they're putting
that back into the community, right?
Like we're seeing celebrities, they're selling an empty projects.
They're not investing back into the community with that money.
That wasn't something that people really thought of.
It was just as, Hey, like I'm getting profit off of this as
opposed to seeing it as treasury.
Like this is the company treasury in which we, as a community, decide how
we're going to be spending this money.
And we actually get a say in whether this money goes towards a real yacht club,
a yacht party, a physical merch, right?
Like the community gets to kind of help decide how that hundreds
of million dollars are going to be spent at the Bored Ape Yacht Club.
Alexis: Yeah, I mean this, and this is exciting.
This is stuff we talked about this, um, maybe Circa 2015?
2014?
Reddit as a way.
It was, it was actually because the college football
subreddit wanted to name a bowl.
And they were using third party r/cfb.
If I remember correctly, they were using like third-party tools to
try to crowdfund, but it was a kind of thing where we're like,
okay, this is the biggest college football community on the internet.
If they could just pool their money together and agree on sort of
different goals and all this stuff, um, this could get done overnight.
You could easily have, uh, r/cfb sponsored bowl game.
It'd be a top tier one.
Everyone would love it.
They'd do it just for the lolz, but it would be fun.
The problem, come back to coordination and centralization where, you know, what
has been unlocked now in web3 is that you could, I mean, you could still run
these things very top-down and just be a sort of dictator with your project.
Or we have technologies that exist that are actually going
to enable things like voting.
We're seeing the proliferation of DAOs and finding ways to
actually organize disparate groups of people to make decisions.
And, I'm excited because this is all new territory.
These ideas have floated around on the internet for a very long time.
Well before Reddit too, but now it is unlocked and that's part of the reason
I'm so bullish on the space overall it's because we're just like, we're getting to
revisit ideas that are even more effective now because of this new technology.
And, um, yeah I just love it.
Tiffany: That's a great story and a really interesting example of the
difference between web2 and web3, right?
Like the things that you can do with coordination and
people in web3 versus in web2.
And so-
Alexis: The incentives are totally different.
Like
Tiffany: Incentives are aligned here.
That's the biggest thing incentives are aligned.
Alexis: And that for me?
It's a big deal.
The fact that it all worked before with web2 is why you should be so
excited about web3, because web2 worked in spite of broken incentives.
And again, this is why I wake up every morning as excited, more
excited than I've ever been in 16 years in tech, because I'm seeing
all the same patterns I saw building Reddit, except everyone is aligned.
And more importantly, the folks doing the heaviest lifting of content
creation and curation and community building are the most rewarded.
Like people are rewarded sort of in proportion to what they're doing.
And, human nature has always had this dynamic.
You talked about the hipsters who always tell people, like I
was a fan of BTS before they got.
This solves the hipster problem, like as-
Tiffany: The OG problem.
The OG fan supporter problem.
Alexis: Yes, I know it's called the hipster problem.
Like my hipster friends are the ones who are the most loud
about this, but you're right.
It's the, essentially it's great having the receipts and having that value.
And what's so cool is the- I remember having this conversation with Jack.
So I was a seed investor in Patreon, and I remember having this conversation with him
in like 2014 where I believed even then, that's why I led that round was because.
It was obvious that recurring revenue was important to creators.
Patreon could be the platform to do it.
And because you have this infrastructure that had real receipts, like literal
receipts, people could then easily check the receipts and have proof like Issa Rae.
I have the receipts for however early it was that I started
supporting Issa Rae on Patreon.
And now that she's a huge superstar, there's value to that.
But it only lives in the Patreon universe, at least for now.
And so then when I, again, I'm, I'm just watching this
and just pattern recognition.
I'm seeing everything that gets built with web3.
And to your point, when you can reward the OGs and what gets exciting, we'll be
able to not just reward the OGs, we'll be able to properly reward the early,
uh, sort of curators or viral makers like think of how culture has spread.
Tiffany: The meme creators!
Alexis: Yes, that is a tremendous value.
And if you think- almost all culture, whether it was like a painting on
a cave, all the way to the Mona Lisa or hip hop or whatever it's
all created from the bottom up.
Um, at the end of the day, like it's a bunch of people who decide a thing is
special and the reason I'm bring up the Mona Lisa is because I'm pretty well
known at this point for ranting about how no one cared about that painting.
It sat in the Louvre ignored for hundreds of years until it got stolen in like 1912.
And then a bunch of Persians where like, oh my goodness, the Mona
Lisa was stolen in the cafes.
They didn't have Twitter.
So they were just talking about cafes and that made it a meme in Paris, which
then when it was returned, made people actually care about the Mona Lisa.
Right.
We live today.
All assuming that like the middle east has always been one of the most
important paintings in Western culture.
Not the case, not true at all.
It only mattered when it became a meme.
And so what about that kid in The Bronx?
Who heard hip hop for the first time or heard a rap song for the first
time and told his 50 friends about it.
And because that kid is always on to the new stuff, those 50 friends
tuned in and the mind virus spread and the culture was created, right?
That kid never- forget the original artist who also never got paid.
The kid who was the meme maker in the analog world.
Never gotten anything for it.
Yet, was incredibly valuable for creating that culture.
Now we have the receipts.
Now we have the accountability and that's where it gets so exciting because
people should be able to make a living, creating the meme around culture.
Tiffany: A hundred percent.
Alexis: And we know it's valuable.
We know it's valuable and it seems silly, but it is so incredibly valuable and
people deserve to make the money from that in the meantime, right, we you
know, there are kids who flip sneakers.
On StockX or eBay.
There are kids who flipped trading cards on Alts.
Like they found ways they- and I'm saying kids cause they do tend to be
younger, but like people have found ways to hack the system to finally get some
value for having a cultural spidey sense.
But those are all hacks and they're good hacks.
Some of them become very lucrative businesses, but web3 fixes this and
it doesn't need to be a hack anymore.
It's a feature it's, it's integral to the system working.
Tiffany: NFTs are tokenized memes.
And we're just living in a meme economy.
Alexis: A couple of years ago, we had an annual meeting and I told everyone,
"Every business has to be a meme."
But I was talking about it in the context of, we need to help
founders tell their stories.
And create the story.
So like with Papa, this was like three years ago and it
was your grandkids on demand.
And so the meme was elder tech is important, 10,000
boomers retiring every day.
There's not enough people to help support that.
You need technology to fix it.
Enter Papa.
Right?
Create the meme.
Elder tech is the meme that's and I, it feels silly now talking about it because.
What I should have been paying attention to is the abstraction
of that that crypto was providing, although people weren't really paying
attention to things like Cryptopunks or NFTs back then they existed.
I remember Open Sea at YC demo day being like a really tough pitch cause we were
in the middle of the crypto winter, and I should have been hearing myself realizing
that creating the meme for every business in sort of social media and storytelling
was just the least interesting part of it.
The real part is what you're talking about.
The fact that now there's actual technology to back it up.
And, I mean, let people pay their bills with it.
Tiffany: I mean, the Cryptoadz example where they feature a CCL, one of the
earliest projects that have a creative commons license, which lets people use the
project for commercial purposes in remix.
What that means is anyone can make a meme, a project and experiment on
top of the toads and monetize it.
They've allowed people to do that.
You can't do that right now with many of the other projects and
this matters because anything can make the toads go viral, right?
Like, you are literally letting consumers be able to do whatever
they want with the toads.
An example of it is the socks DAO where you can get a sock.
If you own a toad, one sock, one toad.
And the socks DAO is very, very interesting because it's
almost reminiscent of like Uniswap and Unisocks days.
Alexis: Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, hundred percent.
Tiffany: Now its like game theory of like, do you want to redeem
it into a sock, a physical sock?
Or are you going to just hold the NFT and let it accrue value?
Like, are you actually going to swap it for, for real?
So I could wear it.
Alexis: The absurdity of this is amazing, but it's very real.
And I mean we're talking what, I mean, the what's the floor now on a Cryptoad?
Tiffany: Dude, there's a Cryptoad that sold for 300 ETH two days ago.
Alexis: Good lord.
Tiffany: There was also a Cool Cat that sold for 320 ETH too.
Alexis: Okay, and what was the, uh, remind me so the original Cryptoadz-
Who's behind Cryptoadz project?
Gremplin?
Tiffany: Gremplin.
Who's also-
Alexis: What's Gremplin's story?
Tiffany: We need to get them on the podcast.
I was talking to Noah Davis about getting him and a Gremplin on the podcast,
because I would love to go into details on how he thought about the toadz and
Nouns because he's part of creators of both the Nouns and the toadz, right.
And both projects are doing groundbreaking work, like really innovating on
what it means to hold an NFT, having really interesting game theory.
Having it tied to different forms of like, uh, remixing experiments, but also DAOs,
the Nouns DAO, which so Nouns DAO launched three months ago, around three months ago.
They have 31 million in treasury already and they do one drop,
one auction a day, forever.
It's generative, it's tech.
They use technology so that this will last forever, even after the Nouns DAO
creators are no longer here, right?
Like that's so crazy to think about.
And if it's 31 million in just three months where these auction daily
auctions are now going for crazy prices, imagine were Nouns will be in a year.
And people in the community are submitting interesting proposals to
take some money out of the treasury and build a mobile app or build an apple
TV app or an apple watch app, right?
Like people are really investing into the community and it's a
very live and thriving community.
Alexis: Wild.
One I would not bet against.
Tiffany: We will dive deeper into these projects throughout the podcasts are going
to have them as guests, it'll be a lot of fun to dive into all of these different
implications, but also use cases.
Right.
The thing is there are so many uncovered use cases that we
will start seeing unravel.
Options are endless, and that's why this is so fun.
It's like a game that never ends.
You can continue adding more things, more characters, more levels like
you are the creator of the game.
Alexis: Yeah, and I feel like the boomer here, just to be clear,
you did this podcast with me because I'm the boomer, right?
Tiffany: The zoomer and the boomer is this.
Alexis: Yeah.
Yeah, no I get it.
I'm the old one.
I mean, I feel very comfortable in this world of- and we wake up
every morning and have to relearn.
I tell my wife this, I have to wake up every morning and just learn the
industry all over again because of the stuff I missed while I slept just
catching up on Twitter and Discord.
And, the tools will get better.
They have to get better because humanity only like this- there's only going to
be more interesting stuff being done, and our brains and 24 hours in the
day are a little bit- so we're going to need better curation tools working
on investing in a few of those, but-
Tiffany: Working on building them.
That's what were focused on.
Alexis: I mean, like that has to exist.
I just don't know what-
Tiffany: There's a lot to build in this space.
There's a lot.
Alexis: This is a young person game, and I feel- I mean, I love spending time with
my wife and daughter, but I definitely realize like my prime, when I wasn't
married with a kid was such a great time to be able to just build all the time.
Then think about building all the time and, you know, obviously Reddit
came out of that and I'm proud of that, but what is going to get built
right now by the folks who can truly immerse themselves in this is it's
going to build a whole new internet.
And, yeah I love it.
I feel invigorated by it, even though I have all these gray hairs now.
Tiffany: Olympia is going to be a Guild founder by like age 10.
Alexis: Right!
I mean, I'm waiting for her to put together a couple of proposals for me.
I have, I do have her ENS name.
I need to set up a wallet for her.
I actually that- there's a version of this that lets you sort of grants.
Like, okay there's a version of this that is actually really charming and
sweet, which lets you sort of invest.
Like of the modern version of a savings bond.
Tiffany: A trust fund.
Alexis: Like when I was born- Yeah.
Well like I didn't quite have a trust fund, but my great aunt got me, I
think it was a savings bond as a kid.
And it was one of those things where like, you'd have to wait 18 years,
but you know, the amount of interest that would accrue, it became like a
nice little chunk of money, right.
That was the thing that when a baby was born in 1983, you did.
Apparently.
Or at least my great aunt did.
There is going to have to be a web3 equivalent of that.
And I just love the idea of like, "Congratulations on your newborn,
here's the Cool Cat that I got her.
I hope she likes it."
And,it's absurd, but the portfolios of your generation, and then
certainly Olympia's generation are going to look very different.
It's not going to be like 60-40 stocks and bonds.
It's going to be like 2% Cool Cats and 3% Unisocks and you know 10% GameStop.
And, I mean, it's going to be weird and, there's going to be a Serena
Williams index for her collectibles.
There's going to be all these different assets that we value.
And by we, the value of culture is going to finally ascend in a way that we've
never been able to quantify before.
You know?
It's gonna make some- it's definitely can confuse a lot of
boomers in the next 10 years.
Myself included at times.
Tiffany: After you started tweeting about how you're making NFT choices based on
the things that Olympia was pointing at.
I started getting DMs from parents being like, "How should I think
about building the NFT portfolio for my kids?' It's amazing!
So-
Alexis: I believe it.
I just her pick all of my Cool Cats, so she picked up
the ones that looked like me.
So we'll see how that strategy does.
Tiffany: It'll do better than your average.
I'm sure.
Alexis: I mean, shes got good taste.
That's what wild.
I don't even- how do you even value- is there some tool that I don't know about
to properly value your NFT collection?
Aside from just looking at like the floors.
Tiffany: Zapper.fi is probably the best bet to see what your
portfolio value is worth right now.
But I do think they assess based on floors instead of by traits.
Which is super intricate, right?
Like you have to plug into Rarity Tools or like the contract itself
to know how much this is worth, or just look at the floor on Open Sea.
Alexis: It's worth it.
Tiffany: A couple of different ways of looking at it.
Go to Zappify, go check it out.
Might be fun.
I actually just signed up.
Alexis: Not investment advice.
Tiffany: Yeah, not investment advice.
I just looked at my portfolio last week off of it.
It's really fun.
Also, it's really, really fun to go look at other people's
portfolios and what they're worth.
That's way more fun than looking at yourself.
Alexis: That's so wild.
Man.
I mean, but like this is going to be something really, really remarkable.
This podcast and, and I'm hyped to be able to do this with you, because I know- like
I said, I still feel like I'm swimming in the deep end because I have- like I cannot
devote a 100% of my brain space to this.
So there are things I'm going to be learning as well as complaining about
because I'm the resident boomer.
So this'll be-
Tiffany: Geriatric millennial.
Alexis: Geriatric millennial.
Tiffany: You're not quite a boomer, but you self classify as such.
Alexis: I do, I do.
Tiffany: And so does Lulu.
Alexis: Lulu knows.
Lulu used to be my intern now she's at islands and she keeps me humble.
You know, Gen X-er, Gary Vaynerchuk, has done a hell of a job in this space.
I think it's very interesting because he's playing 4D chess because he
knows every investment he makes in VeeFriends is also building
credibility for his bigger business, working with other- like working- like
supporting brands and helping brands navigate their digital strategy.
And so it's doubly smart because he's dogfooding all the best practices that
he's going to brands with these days.
Tiffany: Brilliant.
He's brilliant.
Alexis: It's very, very smart.
Tiffany: His strategy around VeeFriends was also like an impeccable execute.
Alexis: Yes.
Yeah.
And especially with a demographic that I'm sure had to get educated
on a lot of crypto things.
I think the typical Gary Vee fan six months ago, or whatever it was they
launched that was not like knee deep.
You know, Metamask, Rainbow wallet plugged in, ready to
go buying and selling all day.
He really had to do an education and bring folks in, and from a utility
standpoint has been very smart.
I love seeing that.
This is the part where we're in that early phase where now everyone
is looking over at other great projects, taking inspiration,
figuring out how to do stuff better.
I mean, it's going to be a rapid iteration and the things that we
think of as remarkable today in like three months and certainly in six
months and nine months are going to seem boring and like milk toast.
And, oh man, it's going to be, it's going to be fun cause we got
lots to talk about every week.
Tiffany: Yeah, exactly.
Well, this is just the start and, um, final question.
If you're stranded on an island for one year and could only take one of your
NFTs with you, which one would it be?
Alexis: Oh, that's easy.
It's the, well-
Tiffany: It's one of your punks?
Alexis: I was going to say it'd be one of my Serena punks.
Probably the one that I brought to the Met is the one that I gifted her.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Alexis: I still own like five or six others that I'm just hanging on to for
Olympia's future college fund or whatever.
Tiffany: Haha.
One of those will be able to pay off her college fund and her future kids' college.
Alexis: Probably, yeah.
Okay, let's get wild though.
So yes, and infrastructure will exist so that she wouldn't even need to sell it.
Whether it's like, you know, today, a wealthy person who has a Van Gogh
doesn't need to sell the Van Gogh to get liquidity, they can borrow
against it and use it as collateral.
First Republic is not going to give me collateral for a Cryptopunk today.
There might already be defy solutions.
I don't know, but like, there's going to be some version of this, whether it's
fractionalizing 49% of it, so other people can own it or just borrowing against it.
So that's the crazy part is we're talking about an asset that is
digital and is going to have all those same properties from the analog
world, except it'll be so seamless.
It'll just happen with a couple of taps and money will appear that
then she can use for school and for, you know, for her kids' school.
And who knows.
I mean that's- and so yeah, to answer that question, I would take the
Serena Cryptopunk that I gifted her.
Cause then it would make me like nostalgic for when I wasn't stuck on this island
and I could actually see my wife.
Thats the right answer for any husband.
Tiffany: Very cute.
Alexis: What would yours be?
Tiffany: Mine would have to be the Cool Cat that im repping everywhere.
Alexis: Ah, okay, well it is your PFP.
Yeah, that's a tough one.
You all need to build a solution for this.
I don't know which PFP to- I threw up my Bored Ape cause a
couple of Bored Ape folks who are like, "Yo, you at the Bored Ape?"
And I'm like, "Of course I'm in the yacht club, man.
I've been there a minute."
And so I had, you know, put it up, but then it's like now I'm
implicitly betraying Cryptopunks and Cool Cats and Pudgy Penguins.
I need a better sense of identity thats not Twitter that's built for this world.
Is there something- can islands built this for me?
Tiffany: Maybe soon.
Maybe soon.
NFTs just got a lot more interesting, but it's "probably nothing."
You might be able to take out a loan against it for your future kids who knows.
Well, we will dive into all of these use cases, examples, stories, projects, and
bring on the most interesting guests.
Send us who you want us to interview and have on board, and we'll
see you on Discord and Twitter.
Alexis: Bye everybody.