1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:00,580 Tiffany: I'm Tiffany- 2 00:00:00,580 --> 00:00:01,160 Alexis: I'm Alexis- 3 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:03,080 Tiffany: I'm the founder- I'm the founder- 4 00:00:03,210 --> 00:00:03,389 Alexis: [laugher] 5 00:00:03,389 --> 00:00:07,115 Tiffany: How many times- We're going to just keep it trying to- 6 00:00:07,695 --> 00:00:08,265 Alexis: Alright alright ok. 7 00:00:08,315 --> 00:00:08,565 Sorry. 8 00:00:08,565 --> 00:00:09,245 I'm just gonna let you go. 9 00:00:09,245 --> 00:00:10,935 As soon as you introduce yourself then I'll say my thing. 10 00:00:11,635 --> 00:00:12,845 Tiffany: Welcome to our podcast. 11 00:00:13,235 --> 00:00:16,265 Probably Nothing is always something when it comes to NFTs. 12 00:00:16,505 --> 00:00:21,035 I'm Tiffany, Zhong the founder and CEO of Islands, and I'm joining forces with 13 00:00:21,065 --> 00:00:25,955 Alexis to create the one-stop podcast for NFT news, deep dives, and interviews. 14 00:00:26,255 --> 00:00:29,645 Expect many interviews with the most interesting guests from upcoming 15 00:00:29,675 --> 00:00:33,575 industry leaders, such as NFT project creators to community leaders, 16 00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:35,075 to Guild founders, and many more. 17 00:00:35,495 --> 00:00:39,185 Alexis: I'm Alexis Ohanian, founder, and former executive chairman 18 00:00:39,185 --> 00:00:44,085 of Reddit and presently founder managing partner of Seven Seven Six. 19 00:00:44,465 --> 00:00:48,305 And I'm very excited because this podcast is going to make me 20 00:00:48,305 --> 00:00:50,705 feel very old, but in a good way. 21 00:00:51,235 --> 00:00:53,855 because we're going to get to explore all the latest emerging 22 00:00:53,855 --> 00:00:56,245 trends in all things, web3. 23 00:00:56,515 --> 00:01:01,865 Tiffany: So, Alexis, what are NFTs and why are you so excited about them? 24 00:01:03,095 --> 00:01:04,865 Alexis: Gosh, you know, the best way to describe it. 25 00:01:05,165 --> 00:01:09,395 So it's a digital asset where the ownership is tracked on a 26 00:01:09,395 --> 00:01:13,880 blockchain, Ethereum, the most popular flavor right now for that. 27 00:01:14,060 --> 00:01:17,960 The assets themselves can be anything, you know, they could be any 28 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:20,930 kind of digital goods, like things that'll exist in virtual worlds. 29 00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:25,250 Um, to claims you can almost think of them as like deeds on physical assets. 30 00:01:25,340 --> 00:01:31,160 And in coming years NFTs, the technology are going to evolve in ways that I can't 31 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,610 even predict, but like that's part of the fun of building and investing in 32 00:01:34,610 --> 00:01:38,960 this space is that we're talking about the infrastructure for a new internet. 33 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:43,295 That's reallywhat web3 is, and it's an internet where you basically have 34 00:01:43,595 --> 00:01:47,705 money or value and ownership in a way that takes advantage of all the 35 00:01:47,705 --> 00:01:51,305 benefits of the digital world that is like infinite scale and distribution 36 00:01:51,305 --> 00:01:55,685 and virality, but still maintains a few of the benefits from the analog world. 37 00:01:56,025 --> 00:01:59,960 Like being able to have scarcity and being able to prove verifiably, that this 38 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:01,490 is yours, and I'm now giving it to you. 39 00:02:01,490 --> 00:02:02,150 It's wild. 40 00:02:02,150 --> 00:02:04,430 We've seen I mean profile pics. 41 00:02:04,460 --> 00:02:07,970 PFPs are probably the trend that most of you have encountered right now, 42 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,690 but it's just the start and it is not. 43 00:02:13,085 --> 00:02:15,215 It is not as simple as just right. 44 00:02:15,215 --> 00:02:21,125 Clicking and saving the JPEG in order to steal the asset. 45 00:02:21,635 --> 00:02:26,045 Uh, it is actually a way to frankly, spread the value. 46 00:02:26,135 --> 00:02:29,895 And so when someone wants to right click and save my Cryptopunk 47 00:02:29,915 --> 00:02:31,955 of Serena, I say, go for it. 48 00:02:31,955 --> 00:02:36,455 Please do, please put that everywhere you can, because it will just make 49 00:02:36,455 --> 00:02:39,275 the verifiable original more valuable. 50 00:02:39,755 --> 00:02:43,985 Tiffany: So this PFP NFT phenomenon, let's break that down for people who 51 00:02:44,015 --> 00:02:48,185 don't understand what that is yet, but are seeing people, celebrities, tech, 52 00:02:48,185 --> 00:02:51,815 entrepreneurs, all sorts of people, artists changing the profile picture 53 00:02:51,815 --> 00:02:53,255 to something that they don't know. 54 00:02:53,375 --> 00:02:54,935 It's usually an animal. 55 00:02:54,995 --> 00:02:58,405 I think you recently changed her profile picture to an ape. 56 00:02:58,405 --> 00:02:58,915 Alexis: Yes, I aped in. 57 00:02:58,915 --> 00:03:01,175 Tiffany: My profile picture is a, cat. 58 00:03:01,405 --> 00:03:02,705 Alexis: A Cool Cat at that. 59 00:03:02,705 --> 00:03:03,285 Tiffany: Exactly. 60 00:03:03,305 --> 00:03:05,525 So why, why is Twitter now? 61 00:03:05,555 --> 00:03:08,915 How did Twitter become a zoo of animal profile pictures? 62 00:03:09,035 --> 00:03:11,195 Alexis: Uh, it's interesting. 63 00:03:11,195 --> 00:03:11,735 This has been. 64 00:03:12,665 --> 00:03:14,465 Twitter has lived many lives. 65 00:03:14,555 --> 00:03:17,345 And this is a company that in a lot of ways, I wouldn't say resurrect- was 66 00:03:17,345 --> 00:03:21,755 resurrected, but has been reinvented now in the last year and a half. 67 00:03:21,905 --> 00:03:24,695 And you know, we all now know the profile pic. 68 00:03:24,905 --> 00:03:28,025 Again, in 2005, starting Reddit. 69 00:03:28,385 --> 00:03:30,875 No one was thinking about a profile pic, right? 70 00:03:30,875 --> 00:03:33,365 Facebook still existed in colleges. 71 00:03:33,605 --> 00:03:34,805 There was no Twitter. 72 00:03:35,105 --> 00:03:37,865 So if you were thinking about putting a photo of yourself on the internet, you 73 00:03:37,865 --> 00:03:41,705 were thinking kind of like MySpace or Facebook, where it's a photo of yourself. 74 00:03:41,765 --> 00:03:43,145 In fact, you know what? 75 00:03:43,145 --> 00:03:45,455 No, I know for a fact I uploaded the Reddit. 76 00:03:45,455 --> 00:03:52,235 I uploaded Snoo as a, uh, person quote unquote on Facebook. 77 00:03:52,235 --> 00:03:56,715 And the account was banned after reached a few hundred thousand, uh, friends. 78 00:03:56,715 --> 00:03:58,995 It was banned because it was an impersonation of a non-real 79 00:03:59,015 --> 00:04:00,555 person, or is it a non-real entity. 80 00:04:00,905 --> 00:04:03,455 And Facebook needed to have real people on the platform. 81 00:04:03,485 --> 00:04:08,075 And that, that was, uh, you know, part of the ethos of Facebook. 82 00:04:08,105 --> 00:04:11,255 But you know, in the last 15 years we see more and more platforms and more, more 83 00:04:11,255 --> 00:04:15,365 people get comfortable with the idea of an avatar and look, mascots are cute. 84 00:04:15,425 --> 00:04:16,865 I'm a big fan of mascots. 85 00:04:17,075 --> 00:04:18,665 Uh, that's why I created the Reddit one. 86 00:04:18,665 --> 00:04:20,435 That's why I've kind of created them for every company I've done. 87 00:04:20,435 --> 00:04:23,795 And I just think there's something about the whimsical nature 88 00:04:23,795 --> 00:04:27,605 of being able to change your profile photo to some creature. 89 00:04:27,995 --> 00:04:33,610 That then signals a sense of identity to a tribe, whether it's the Bored Apes 90 00:04:33,610 --> 00:04:38,750 or Cool Cats that it creates the same sense of community that like a platform 91 00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:44,060 such as Reddit has, but it's doing it across very different boundaries. 92 00:04:44,090 --> 00:04:48,200 It's, it's- it's like wearing a particular article of clothing walking 93 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,120 down the street, ah, sports Jersey. 94 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:50,720 Right. 95 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,900 If I see someone wearing an Angel City jersey, And I'm 96 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:55,010 wearing an Angel City jersey. 97 00:04:55,010 --> 00:04:57,860 We can give each other a knowing nod because we recognize 98 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:58,940 we're in the same tribe. 99 00:04:59,330 --> 00:05:00,980 We've both opted into that tribe. 100 00:05:01,010 --> 00:05:03,460 Anybody could join that tribe as long as you can get an Angel 101 00:05:03,460 --> 00:05:05,390 City jersey and be a part of it. 102 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,270 And as a species, we humans love this. 103 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:09,410 It makes us feel good. 104 00:05:09,410 --> 00:05:10,550 It makes us feel seen. 105 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:15,560 And what you're seeing with PFPs is the digital version of that. 106 00:05:15,620 --> 00:05:20,330 And it's a V1, but the fact that it has become as big of a status 107 00:05:20,330 --> 00:05:24,710 symbol as quickly as it has, is a very good indication of something 108 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:28,440 very special here, considering in the past, how much a brand like Bored Ape 109 00:05:28,460 --> 00:05:30,950 Yacht Club, which started in April? 110 00:05:31,070 --> 00:05:31,970 Mar- May? 111 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:33,740 It's only a few months old. 112 00:05:33,830 --> 00:05:37,670 If they had- if the board of yacht club had started a t-shirt brand, like 113 00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:40,700 in the vein of a Supreme or something else, and they were four months. 114 00:05:41,945 --> 00:05:45,695 Maybe, maybe they would have been able to beg, borrow and steal 115 00:05:45,695 --> 00:05:49,685 their way into getting Steph Curry to wear that shirt into a game. 116 00:05:49,955 --> 00:05:50,255 Right. 117 00:05:50,255 --> 00:05:56,585 But today, a Steph Curry is paying for the chance to associate with that community. 118 00:05:56,915 --> 00:05:57,125 Right. 119 00:05:57,125 --> 00:06:00,125 He's essentially paying for the t-shirt and does it, and is not 120 00:06:00,125 --> 00:06:01,805 wearing it walking into the game. 121 00:06:01,835 --> 00:06:05,135 He's wearing it on his profile photo for everyone to see. 122 00:06:05,525 --> 00:06:08,735 And part of the reason he's doing that is because he knows the value of the 123 00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:15,095 ape that he's wearing is something that accrues to him, the more people who see 124 00:06:15,095 --> 00:06:18,365 value in it and want to be a part of it because supply and demand finally locks 125 00:06:18,365 --> 00:06:22,415 in and he can be rewarded just like anyone listening to this for being an early 126 00:06:22,415 --> 00:06:26,315 holder or early member of that community, because there is just a scarce number of 127 00:06:26,315 --> 00:06:30,755 what, 10,000 I think of that one, um, that exists and, and it will never be more. 128 00:06:31,115 --> 00:06:34,835 And so then what does it take to get everyone to forget 129 00:06:34,865 --> 00:06:36,105 that the Bored Apes matter? 130 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,910 Like, I don't want to say it's impossible, but it's very, very hard to imagine 131 00:06:40,910 --> 00:06:46,760 a scenario where the cultural value of that goes immediately to zero. 132 00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:50,050 Like you, you, it would, it would take, it would be such an outlier event. 133 00:06:50,930 --> 00:06:54,050 What you're seeing looks so weird and it has these giant price 134 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:57,500 tags on it, but people are buying into being part of a community. 135 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,690 And it's a special, it's a special feeling. 136 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:03,860 Cause it's not like Reddit in 05 where we had to convince people that they'd want 137 00:07:03,860 --> 00:07:07,940 to participate for internet points that were worthless and leaderboards that I 138 00:07:07,940 --> 00:07:10,080 devised to help encourage people to post. 139 00:07:10,775 --> 00:07:14,345 But for the community of like like-minded people who all wanted to talk about 140 00:07:14,345 --> 00:07:17,405 programming in the subreddit or gaming in the subreddit, but they got no 141 00:07:17,405 --> 00:07:18,905 value from it at the end of the day. 142 00:07:18,905 --> 00:07:22,625 I mean, they got entertainment value and they have some flex because they 143 00:07:22,625 --> 00:07:23,825 have a little icon on their profile. 144 00:07:23,825 --> 00:07:25,265 It says how long they've been a Redditer. 145 00:07:25,745 --> 00:07:30,095 But now just with a simple JPEG at the end of the day, you have something 146 00:07:30,095 --> 00:07:34,215 that accrues value like stock in a company because there's a finite supply. 147 00:07:34,535 --> 00:07:40,115 And the people who want it are ever increasing and that 148 00:07:40,115 --> 00:07:41,645 dynamic never existed before. 149 00:07:41,645 --> 00:07:44,645 And so when I see what's happening in web3, all I think about is early days 150 00:07:44,645 --> 00:07:49,385 of Reddit when it was working and, you know, has now become one of the largest 151 00:07:49,385 --> 00:07:53,795 websites on the internet, but without any of the actual financial upside, 152 00:07:53,825 --> 00:07:55,535 going to the people who did the work. 153 00:07:56,435 --> 00:07:59,855 And that is meaningful because that pays off student loan debt that pays 154 00:07:59,855 --> 00:08:01,775 the bills that buys cars and homes. 155 00:08:01,775 --> 00:08:07,115 Like that's when you unlock the dollar value of that and, and properly 156 00:08:07,115 --> 00:08:10,475 assess it or more, more properly assess it or more properly value 157 00:08:10,475 --> 00:08:12,995 it, it will motivate amazing things. 158 00:08:13,145 --> 00:08:16,145 And we're just starting to see what it does play to earn as a whole- we'll do 159 00:08:16,145 --> 00:08:19,595 a whole other episode on play to earn games, but like it's, it's exciting. 160 00:08:20,915 --> 00:08:21,725 Tiffany: I mean, the equity- 161 00:08:21,725 --> 00:08:22,335 Alexis: I got ranty. 162 00:08:23,175 --> 00:08:24,995 Tiffany: The equity in these communities. 163 00:08:25,155 --> 00:08:27,605 You can actually get liquidity off of them, right? 164 00:08:27,635 --> 00:08:32,765 Like in the past, you couldn't, you couldn't actually monetize your fandom. 165 00:08:33,245 --> 00:08:40,895 If you're a super fan of Beyoncé or BTS, you can't monetize that you can only say 166 00:08:40,955 --> 00:08:46,115 and shout at the top of your lungs, that you are an early listener or early fan. 167 00:08:46,895 --> 00:08:50,315 And like, maybe you could pull up receipts of like you liking 168 00:08:50,315 --> 00:08:51,905 the Facebook page in like 2010. 169 00:08:51,905 --> 00:08:53,045 Alexis: Maybe some ticket stubs. 170 00:08:53,045 --> 00:08:53,385 Tiffany: Yeah. 171 00:08:53,515 --> 00:08:54,845 And that's about it, right? 172 00:08:54,875 --> 00:08:55,835 That's worthless. 173 00:08:57,005 --> 00:09:03,305 It only goes into play into like some small amount of clout, but not really. 174 00:09:04,445 --> 00:09:09,485 And so what these PFP projects, I think ultimately it boils down to two 175 00:09:09,485 --> 00:09:14,525 major things, social status and tribe. 176 00:09:15,395 --> 00:09:21,440 Like making an NFT project, your profile picture shows that you are- 177 00:09:21,890 --> 00:09:25,460 you are an owner, but you're also able to meet other owners as a result 178 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:27,980 because that is your profile picture. 179 00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:32,450 So that's how you are able to find your tribe on Twitter, on social media, and 180 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:35,300 then on the social status front, as these communities start growing, you show that, 181 00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:40,280 Hey, like I am actually an OG member, but going back to the Bored Apes, right? 182 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:44,000 Magdalena, Kala had a great tweet, which was like, imagine a five month 183 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:51,800 old startup with 690 million in lifetime sales, GMV, a 100 million 184 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,990 in revenue, and like 80 million in the, in the past 24 hours when they 185 00:09:56,990 --> 00:09:59,420 dropped the Serums and the Mutant Apes. 186 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:05,540 80 million in one day, that is unheard of in any early stage company. 187 00:10:05,540 --> 00:10:06,540 Alexis: Yeah, it's phenomenal. 188 00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:09,200 Tiffany: Or maybe even some growth stage companies, right? 189 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:09,530 Like- 190 00:10:11,555 --> 00:10:13,565 Alexis: And it's not all, especially, especially when you 191 00:10:13,565 --> 00:10:14,885 consider how high leverage it was. 192 00:10:14,885 --> 00:10:17,225 Cause the team, the Bored Ape team is not that big. 193 00:10:17,795 --> 00:10:18,065 Right. 194 00:10:18,065 --> 00:10:19,865 It's probably five, six people. 195 00:10:20,285 --> 00:10:25,685 Um, you know, when you're talking about something, right, it has- they have the 196 00:10:25,685 --> 00:10:28,565 advantage of time, or timing rather. 197 00:10:28,865 --> 00:10:33,545 And being early in this and being, you know, among the sort of pioneers of it, 198 00:10:33,545 --> 00:10:38,195 you see this all the time where some of the first baseball cards, right. 199 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,960 They're not even of the best players, like the Honus Wagner card, like, 200 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,740 Honus was a good baseball player, but it wasn't like the he's not 201 00:10:45,740 --> 00:10:47,360 like Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth. 202 00:10:47,630 --> 00:10:51,980 But because that card is an iconic sort of considered one of the first, 203 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,230 it has a value that will always exist. 204 00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:54,710 Same thing. 205 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:58,930 I think with Cryptopunks, you saw that first sort of wave there because 206 00:10:58,930 --> 00:11:03,050 they artwork they produced, I think Bored Apes represent that first of 207 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,440 a real sort of community mindset. 208 00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:08,120 Like, Hey, let's create a space. 209 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,350 Let's think of a roadmap. 210 00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:14,150 Let's build a tribe very explicitly with what we're doing and be thoughtful and 211 00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:16,400 any attention to detail on the art side. 212 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,010 Like lots of stuff that all came together in a perfect storm. 213 00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:23,660 And yeah, that's a, that's a hell of a startup, a lot of- and a VC like 214 00:11:23,660 --> 00:11:27,380 myself would be happy, gratefully, like we'd be thrilled to be an 215 00:11:27,410 --> 00:11:29,030 early investor in that startup. 216 00:11:29,870 --> 00:11:30,770 And what's different here. 217 00:11:30,770 --> 00:11:32,270 Is that there weren't VCs. 218 00:11:32,270 --> 00:11:33,160 I mean, I- 219 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:33,980 Tiffany: They don't need them. 220 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:35,760 They don't need VCs. 221 00:11:36,290 --> 00:11:36,680 Yeah. 222 00:11:37,150 --> 00:11:38,870 Alexis: And that's, that's special. 223 00:11:39,980 --> 00:11:43,880 Tiffany: It's a, it's a profitable consumer startup that gets 224 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,310 2.5% royalty on every sale. 225 00:11:47,390 --> 00:11:48,380 That's ongoing. 226 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:49,400 That's better than SAS. 227 00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:52,550 It's better than any other business model out there right now. 228 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,610 And so the difference between how board ape approached it versus how a lot of, 229 00:11:59,180 --> 00:12:04,820 um, other early NFT projects or even celebrities approach it is the money 230 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,530 that they earned from selling out the apes and from royalties, they're putting 231 00:12:09,530 --> 00:12:10,910 that back into the community, right? 232 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Like we're seeing celebrities, they're selling an empty projects. 233 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:17,330 They're not investing back into the community with that money. 234 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:19,400 That wasn't something that people really thought of. 235 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,930 It was just as, Hey, like I'm getting profit off of this as 236 00:12:23,930 --> 00:12:25,540 opposed to seeing it as treasury. 237 00:12:25,970 --> 00:12:31,025 Like this is the company treasury in which we, as a community, decide how 238 00:12:31,025 --> 00:12:32,495 we're going to be spending this money. 239 00:12:32,495 --> 00:12:38,345 And we actually get a say in whether this money goes towards a real yacht club, 240 00:12:38,945 --> 00:12:43,205 a yacht party, a physical merch, right? 241 00:12:43,205 --> 00:12:48,815 Like the community gets to kind of help decide how that hundreds 242 00:12:48,815 --> 00:12:52,335 of million dollars are going to be spent at the Bored Ape Yacht Club. 243 00:12:52,910 --> 00:12:54,800 Alexis: Yeah, I mean this, and this is exciting. 244 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:00,000 This is stuff we talked about this, um, maybe Circa 2015? 245 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:00,870 2014? 246 00:13:00,890 --> 00:13:02,450 Reddit as a way. 247 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:05,840 It was, it was actually because the college football 248 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,100 subreddit wanted to name a bowl. 249 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:11,610 And they were using third party r/cfb. 250 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,850 If I remember correctly, they were using like third-party tools to 251 00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:16,280 try to crowdfund, but it was a kind of thing where we're like, 252 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,950 okay, this is the biggest college football community on the internet. 253 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,120 If they could just pool their money together and agree on sort of 254 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,140 different goals and all this stuff, um, this could get done overnight. 255 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,620 You could easily have, uh, r/cfb sponsored bowl game. 256 00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:31,610 It'd be a top tier one. 257 00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:32,210 Everyone would love it. 258 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,300 They'd do it just for the lolz, but it would be fun. 259 00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:42,185 The problem, come back to coordination and centralization where, you know, what 260 00:13:42,185 --> 00:13:46,795 has been unlocked now in web3 is that you could, I mean, you could still run 261 00:13:46,795 --> 00:13:50,965 these things very top-down and just be a sort of dictator with your project. 262 00:13:50,995 --> 00:13:53,845 Or we have technologies that exist that are actually going 263 00:13:53,845 --> 00:13:55,315 to enable things like voting. 264 00:13:55,405 --> 00:13:58,345 We're seeing the proliferation of DAOs and finding ways to 265 00:13:58,345 --> 00:14:02,175 actually organize disparate groups of people to make decisions. 266 00:14:02,665 --> 00:14:07,130 And, I'm excited because this is all new territory. 267 00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:10,880 These ideas have floated around on the internet for a very long time. 268 00:14:10,910 --> 00:14:15,440 Well before Reddit too, but now it is unlocked and that's part of the reason 269 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:21,000 I'm so bullish on the space overall it's because we're just like, we're getting to 270 00:14:21,050 --> 00:14:26,180 revisit ideas that are even more effective now because of this new technology. 271 00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:28,410 And, um, yeah I just love it. 272 00:14:28,885 --> 00:14:32,555 Tiffany: That's a great story and a really interesting example of the 273 00:14:32,555 --> 00:14:34,535 difference between web2 and web3, right? 274 00:14:34,535 --> 00:14:37,265 Like the things that you can do with coordination and 275 00:14:37,265 --> 00:14:41,085 people in web3 versus in web2. 276 00:14:42,245 --> 00:14:43,055 And so- 277 00:14:43,135 --> 00:14:45,725 Alexis: The incentives are totally different. 278 00:14:45,725 --> 00:14:46,055 Like 279 00:14:46,235 --> 00:14:47,495 Tiffany: Incentives are aligned here. 280 00:14:47,585 --> 00:14:50,255 That's the biggest thing incentives are aligned. 281 00:14:51,555 --> 00:14:53,645 Alexis: And that for me? 282 00:14:54,830 --> 00:14:55,730 It's a big deal. 283 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,390 The fact that it all worked before with web2 is why you should be so 284 00:14:59,390 --> 00:15:06,020 excited about web3, because web2 worked in spite of broken incentives. 285 00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:09,440 And again, this is why I wake up every morning as excited, more 286 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,870 excited than I've ever been in 16 years in tech, because I'm seeing 287 00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:20,160 all the same patterns I saw building Reddit, except everyone is aligned. 288 00:15:21,105 --> 00:15:25,145 And more importantly, the folks doing the heaviest lifting of content 289 00:15:25,145 --> 00:15:29,525 creation and curation and community building are the most rewarded. 290 00:15:30,105 --> 00:15:35,835 Like people are rewarded sort of in proportion to what they're doing. 291 00:15:36,295 --> 00:15:40,745 And, human nature has always had this dynamic. 292 00:15:40,745 --> 00:15:43,325 You talked about the hipsters who always tell people, like I 293 00:15:43,325 --> 00:15:45,035 was a fan of BTS before they got. 294 00:15:46,055 --> 00:15:48,335 This solves the hipster problem, like as- 295 00:15:48,725 --> 00:15:49,815 Tiffany: The OG problem. 296 00:15:49,815 --> 00:15:51,185 The OG fan supporter problem. 297 00:15:51,485 --> 00:15:53,105 Alexis: Yes, I know it's called the hipster problem. 298 00:15:53,105 --> 00:15:55,455 Like my hipster friends are the ones who are the most loud 299 00:15:55,475 --> 00:15:56,555 about this, but you're right. 300 00:15:56,565 --> 00:15:59,855 It's the, essentially it's great having the receipts and having that value. 301 00:15:59,855 --> 00:16:04,475 And what's so cool is the- I remember having this conversation with Jack. 302 00:16:04,505 --> 00:16:07,955 So I was a seed investor in Patreon, and I remember having this conversation with him 303 00:16:07,955 --> 00:16:13,745 in like 2014 where I believed even then, that's why I led that round was because. 304 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,870 It was obvious that recurring revenue was important to creators. 305 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,060 Patreon could be the platform to do it. 306 00:16:20,630 --> 00:16:25,100 And because you have this infrastructure that had real receipts, like literal 307 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:29,950 receipts, people could then easily check the receipts and have proof like Issa Rae. 308 00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:33,440 I have the receipts for however early it was that I started 309 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,110 supporting Issa Rae on Patreon. 310 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:38,920 And now that she's a huge superstar, there's value to that. 311 00:16:39,425 --> 00:16:42,545 But it only lives in the Patreon universe, at least for now. 312 00:16:42,635 --> 00:16:45,015 And so then when I, again, I'm, I'm just watching this 313 00:16:45,015 --> 00:16:46,025 and just pattern recognition. 314 00:16:46,025 --> 00:16:47,805 I'm seeing everything that gets built with web3. 315 00:16:47,825 --> 00:16:52,445 And to your point, when you can reward the OGs and what gets exciting, we'll be 316 00:16:52,445 --> 00:16:57,065 able to not just reward the OGs, we'll be able to properly reward the early, 317 00:16:57,155 --> 00:17:03,985 uh, sort of curators or viral makers like think of how culture has spread. 318 00:17:04,745 --> 00:17:05,805 Tiffany: The meme creators! 319 00:17:06,235 --> 00:17:07,955 Alexis: Yes, that is a tremendous value. 320 00:17:07,955 --> 00:17:11,495 And if you think- almost all culture, whether it was like a painting on 321 00:17:11,495 --> 00:17:14,705 a cave, all the way to the Mona Lisa or hip hop or whatever it's 322 00:17:14,705 --> 00:17:16,115 all created from the bottom up. 323 00:17:16,445 --> 00:17:19,415 Um, at the end of the day, like it's a bunch of people who decide a thing is 324 00:17:19,415 --> 00:17:22,865 special and the reason I'm bring up the Mona Lisa is because I'm pretty well 325 00:17:22,865 --> 00:17:25,925 known at this point for ranting about how no one cared about that painting. 326 00:17:26,075 --> 00:17:31,465 It sat in the Louvre ignored for hundreds of years until it got stolen in like 1912. 327 00:17:31,925 --> 00:17:34,895 And then a bunch of Persians where like, oh my goodness, the Mona 328 00:17:34,895 --> 00:17:36,665 Lisa was stolen in the cafes. 329 00:17:36,665 --> 00:17:37,205 They didn't have Twitter. 330 00:17:37,205 --> 00:17:43,055 So they were just talking about cafes and that made it a meme in Paris, which 331 00:17:43,055 --> 00:17:47,405 then when it was returned, made people actually care about the Mona Lisa. 332 00:17:47,795 --> 00:17:48,005 Right. 333 00:17:48,005 --> 00:17:48,635 We live today. 334 00:17:48,635 --> 00:17:50,855 All assuming that like the middle east has always been one of the most 335 00:17:50,855 --> 00:17:52,685 important paintings in Western culture. 336 00:17:53,015 --> 00:17:54,275 Not the case, not true at all. 337 00:17:54,275 --> 00:17:55,745 It only mattered when it became a meme. 338 00:17:56,255 --> 00:17:59,225 And so what about that kid in The Bronx? 339 00:17:59,930 --> 00:18:04,430 Who heard hip hop for the first time or heard a rap song for the first 340 00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:07,100 time and told his 50 friends about it. 341 00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:11,090 And because that kid is always on to the new stuff, those 50 friends 342 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,260 tuned in and the mind virus spread and the culture was created, right? 343 00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:19,430 That kid never- forget the original artist who also never got paid. 344 00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:23,840 The kid who was the meme maker in the analog world. 345 00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:24,920 Never gotten anything for it. 346 00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:29,960 Yet, was incredibly valuable for creating that culture. 347 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,430 Now we have the receipts. 348 00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:35,150 Now we have the accountability and that's where it gets so exciting because 349 00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:42,010 people should be able to make a living, creating the meme around culture. 350 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:43,500 Tiffany: A hundred percent. 351 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:44,960 Alexis: And we know it's valuable. 352 00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:49,400 We know it's valuable and it seems silly, but it is so incredibly valuable and 353 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,640 people deserve to make the money from that in the meantime, right, we you 354 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,200 know, there are kids who flip sneakers. 355 00:18:54,905 --> 00:18:56,065 On StockX or eBay. 356 00:18:56,065 --> 00:18:58,895 There are kids who flipped trading cards on Alts. 357 00:18:59,325 --> 00:19:04,625 Like they found ways they- and I'm saying kids cause they do tend to be 358 00:19:04,625 --> 00:19:08,435 younger, but like people have found ways to hack the system to finally get some 359 00:19:08,435 --> 00:19:11,765 value for having a cultural spidey sense. 360 00:19:12,065 --> 00:19:14,075 But those are all hacks and they're good hacks. 361 00:19:14,075 --> 00:19:19,475 Some of them become very lucrative businesses, but web3 fixes this and 362 00:19:19,475 --> 00:19:20,675 it doesn't need to be a hack anymore. 363 00:19:20,675 --> 00:19:23,235 It's a feature it's, it's integral to the system working. 364 00:19:24,085 --> 00:19:25,760 Tiffany: NFTs are tokenized memes. 365 00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:27,610 And we're just living in a meme economy. 366 00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:30,880 Alexis: A couple of years ago, we had an annual meeting and I told everyone, 367 00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:33,050 "Every business has to be a meme." 368 00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:36,860 But I was talking about it in the context of, we need to help 369 00:19:36,860 --> 00:19:38,350 founders tell their stories. 370 00:19:38,915 --> 00:19:40,145 And create the story. 371 00:19:40,145 --> 00:19:42,875 So like with Papa, this was like three years ago and it 372 00:19:42,875 --> 00:19:44,195 was your grandkids on demand. 373 00:19:44,225 --> 00:19:47,525 And so the meme was elder tech is important, 10,000 374 00:19:47,795 --> 00:19:49,385 boomers retiring every day. 375 00:19:49,415 --> 00:19:51,785 There's not enough people to help support that. 376 00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:53,135 You need technology to fix it. 377 00:19:53,135 --> 00:19:53,935 Enter Papa. 378 00:19:54,095 --> 00:19:54,335 Right? 379 00:19:54,335 --> 00:19:55,025 Create the meme. 380 00:19:55,055 --> 00:19:59,435 Elder tech is the meme that's and I, it feels silly now talking about it because. 381 00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:02,410 What I should have been paying attention to is the abstraction 382 00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:05,740 of that that crypto was providing, although people weren't really paying 383 00:20:05,740 --> 00:20:08,710 attention to things like Cryptopunks or NFTs back then they existed. 384 00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:13,630 I remember Open Sea at YC demo day being like a really tough pitch cause we were 385 00:20:13,630 --> 00:20:19,000 in the middle of the crypto winter, and I should have been hearing myself realizing 386 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:24,275 that creating the meme for every business in sort of social media and storytelling 387 00:20:24,275 --> 00:20:26,465 was just the least interesting part of it. 388 00:20:26,495 --> 00:20:28,265 The real part is what you're talking about. 389 00:20:28,265 --> 00:20:30,845 The fact that now there's actual technology to back it up. 390 00:20:30,935 --> 00:20:33,645 And, I mean, let people pay their bills with it. 391 00:20:33,815 --> 00:20:40,055 Tiffany: I mean, the Cryptoadz example where they feature a CCL, one of the 392 00:20:40,085 --> 00:20:44,075 earliest projects that have a creative commons license, which lets people use the 393 00:20:44,075 --> 00:20:46,475 project for commercial purposes in remix. 394 00:20:46,535 --> 00:20:50,285 What that means is anyone can make a meme, a project and experiment on 395 00:20:50,285 --> 00:20:52,955 top of the toads and monetize it. 396 00:20:53,265 --> 00:20:55,015 They've allowed people to do that. 397 00:20:55,385 --> 00:20:58,355 You can't do that right now with many of the other projects and 398 00:20:58,355 --> 00:21:02,375 this matters because anything can make the toads go viral, right? 399 00:21:02,375 --> 00:21:05,165 Like, you are literally letting consumers be able to do whatever 400 00:21:05,165 --> 00:21:06,365 they want with the toads. 401 00:21:06,595 --> 00:21:12,845 An example of it is the socks DAO where you can get a sock. 402 00:21:13,205 --> 00:21:15,215 If you own a toad, one sock, one toad. 403 00:21:16,055 --> 00:21:19,205 And the socks DAO is very, very interesting because it's 404 00:21:19,205 --> 00:21:22,435 almost reminiscent of like Uniswap and Unisocks days. 405 00:21:22,695 --> 00:21:23,095 Alexis: Yeah. 406 00:21:24,055 --> 00:21:24,795 Oh yeah. 407 00:21:24,925 --> 00:21:26,205 Yeah, hundred percent. 408 00:21:26,295 --> 00:21:29,465 Tiffany: Now its like game theory of like, do you want to redeem 409 00:21:29,465 --> 00:21:31,865 it into a sock, a physical sock? 410 00:21:31,895 --> 00:21:35,495 Or are you going to just hold the NFT and let it accrue value? 411 00:21:35,765 --> 00:21:38,375 Like, are you actually going to swap it for, for real? 412 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:39,565 So I could wear it. 413 00:21:39,655 --> 00:21:43,835 Alexis: The absurdity of this is amazing, but it's very real. 414 00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:49,315 And I mean we're talking what, I mean, the what's the floor now on a Cryptoad? 415 00:21:51,555 --> 00:21:56,840 Tiffany: Dude, there's a Cryptoad that sold for 300 ETH two days ago. 416 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,020 Alexis: Good lord. 417 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,070 Tiffany: There was also a Cool Cat that sold for 320 ETH too. 418 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:07,720 Alexis: Okay, and what was the, uh, remind me so the original Cryptoadz- 419 00:22:08,030 --> 00:22:09,420 Who's behind Cryptoadz project? 420 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:10,120 Gremplin? 421 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:11,510 Tiffany: Gremplin. 422 00:22:11,660 --> 00:22:12,470 Who's also- 423 00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:13,640 Alexis: What's Gremplin's story? 424 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,990 Tiffany: We need to get them on the podcast. 425 00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:20,590 I was talking to Noah Davis about getting him and a Gremplin on the podcast, 426 00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:28,340 because I would love to go into details on how he thought about the toadz and 427 00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:33,290 Nouns because he's part of creators of both the Nouns and the toadz, right. 428 00:22:33,620 --> 00:22:38,990 And both projects are doing groundbreaking work, like really innovating on 429 00:22:39,215 --> 00:22:42,845 what it means to hold an NFT, having really interesting game theory. 430 00:22:42,995 --> 00:22:48,705 Having it tied to different forms of like, uh, remixing experiments, but also DAOs, 431 00:22:48,705 --> 00:22:53,315 the Nouns DAO, which so Nouns DAO launched three months ago, around three months ago. 432 00:22:53,375 --> 00:22:59,945 They have 31 million in treasury already and they do one drop, 433 00:23:00,465 --> 00:23:03,135 one auction a day, forever. 434 00:23:03,695 --> 00:23:05,135 It's generative, it's tech. 435 00:23:05,165 --> 00:23:09,585 They use technology so that this will last forever, even after the Nouns DAO 436 00:23:09,585 --> 00:23:12,215 creators are no longer here, right? 437 00:23:12,995 --> 00:23:14,885 Like that's so crazy to think about. 438 00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:19,595 And if it's 31 million in just three months where these auction daily 439 00:23:19,595 --> 00:23:24,405 auctions are now going for crazy prices, imagine were Nouns will be in a year. 440 00:23:24,885 --> 00:23:28,490 And people in the community are submitting interesting proposals to 441 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:32,630 take some money out of the treasury and build a mobile app or build an apple 442 00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:34,940 TV app or an apple watch app, right? 443 00:23:34,940 --> 00:23:37,220 Like people are really investing into the community and it's a 444 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:39,620 very live and thriving community. 445 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:40,850 Alexis: Wild. 446 00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:42,480 One I would not bet against. 447 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,850 Tiffany: We will dive deeper into these projects throughout the podcasts are going 448 00:23:46,850 --> 00:23:50,690 to have them as guests, it'll be a lot of fun to dive into all of these different 449 00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:53,120 implications, but also use cases. 450 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:53,330 Right. 451 00:23:54,245 --> 00:23:58,295 The thing is there are so many uncovered use cases that we 452 00:23:58,295 --> 00:23:59,735 will start seeing unravel. 453 00:23:59,975 --> 00:24:02,975 Options are endless, and that's why this is so fun. 454 00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:05,195 It's like a game that never ends. 455 00:24:05,255 --> 00:24:09,515 You can continue adding more things, more characters, more levels like 456 00:24:09,545 --> 00:24:11,435 you are the creator of the game. 457 00:24:11,915 --> 00:24:14,825 Alexis: Yeah, and I feel like the boomer here, just to be clear, 458 00:24:14,825 --> 00:24:17,225 you did this podcast with me because I'm the boomer, right? 459 00:24:18,275 --> 00:24:21,085 Tiffany: The zoomer and the boomer is this. 460 00:24:21,325 --> 00:24:21,625 Alexis: Yeah. 461 00:24:21,625 --> 00:24:22,325 Yeah, no I get it. 462 00:24:22,325 --> 00:24:23,005 I'm the old one. 463 00:24:23,035 --> 00:24:30,455 I mean, I feel very comfortable in this world of- and we wake up 464 00:24:30,485 --> 00:24:32,435 every morning and have to relearn. 465 00:24:33,025 --> 00:24:36,035 I tell my wife this, I have to wake up every morning and just learn the 466 00:24:36,035 --> 00:24:39,095 industry all over again because of the stuff I missed while I slept just 467 00:24:39,095 --> 00:24:40,635 catching up on Twitter and Discord. 468 00:24:41,345 --> 00:24:43,370 And, the tools will get better. 469 00:24:43,370 --> 00:24:47,480 They have to get better because humanity only like this- there's only going to 470 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,110 be more interesting stuff being done, and our brains and 24 hours in the 471 00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:54,740 day are a little bit- so we're going to need better curation tools working 472 00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:56,560 on investing in a few of those, but- 473 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:57,660 Tiffany: Working on building them. 474 00:24:57,660 --> 00:24:57,850 That's what were focused on. 475 00:24:57,850 --> 00:25:00,980 Alexis: I mean, like that has to exist. 476 00:25:01,310 --> 00:25:03,440 I just don't know what- 477 00:25:04,330 --> 00:25:06,480 Tiffany: There's a lot to build in this space. 478 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,070 There's a lot. 479 00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:10,955 Alexis: This is a young person game, and I feel- I mean, I love spending time with 480 00:25:10,955 --> 00:25:17,315 my wife and daughter, but I definitely realize like my prime, when I wasn't 481 00:25:17,315 --> 00:25:22,715 married with a kid was such a great time to be able to just build all the time. 482 00:25:22,715 --> 00:25:25,725 Then think about building all the time and, you know, obviously Reddit 483 00:25:25,725 --> 00:25:29,225 came out of that and I'm proud of that, but what is going to get built 484 00:25:29,225 --> 00:25:35,015 right now by the folks who can truly immerse themselves in this is it's 485 00:25:35,015 --> 00:25:36,195 going to build a whole new internet. 486 00:25:36,825 --> 00:25:40,055 And, yeah I love it. 487 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:42,890 I feel invigorated by it, even though I have all these gray hairs now. 488 00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:47,450 Tiffany: Olympia is going to be a Guild founder by like age 10. 489 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:48,470 Alexis: Right! 490 00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:51,470 I mean, I'm waiting for her to put together a couple of proposals for me. 491 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,060 I have, I do have her ENS name. 492 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,340 I need to set up a wallet for her. 493 00:25:56,340 --> 00:26:02,550 I actually that- there's a version of this that lets you sort of grants. 494 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,100 Like, okay there's a version of this that is actually really charming and 495 00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:08,200 sweet, which lets you sort of invest. 496 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,970 Like of the modern version of a savings bond. 497 00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:11,290 Tiffany: A trust fund. 498 00:26:11,290 --> 00:26:12,680 Alexis: Like when I was born- Yeah. 499 00:26:12,740 --> 00:26:17,090 Well like I didn't quite have a trust fund, but my great aunt got me, I 500 00:26:17,090 --> 00:26:18,680 think it was a savings bond as a kid. 501 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,140 And it was one of those things where like, you'd have to wait 18 years, 502 00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:23,690 but you know, the amount of interest that would accrue, it became like a 503 00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:25,040 nice little chunk of money, right. 504 00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:29,090 That was the thing that when a baby was born in 1983, you did. 505 00:26:29,150 --> 00:26:29,780 Apparently. 506 00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:31,680 Or at least my great aunt did. 507 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,250 There is going to have to be a web3 equivalent of that. 508 00:26:35,135 --> 00:26:38,885 And I just love the idea of like, "Congratulations on your newborn, 509 00:26:38,915 --> 00:26:41,795 here's the Cool Cat that I got her. 510 00:26:41,795 --> 00:26:42,725 I hope she likes it." 511 00:26:43,215 --> 00:26:49,325 And,it's absurd, but the portfolios of your generation, and then 512 00:26:49,325 --> 00:26:52,385 certainly Olympia's generation are going to look very different. 513 00:26:52,385 --> 00:26:54,565 It's not going to be like 60-40 stocks and bonds. 514 00:26:54,935 --> 00:27:01,955 It's going to be like 2% Cool Cats and 3% Unisocks and you know 10% GameStop. 515 00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:06,055 And, I mean, it's going to be weird and, there's going to be a Serena 516 00:27:06,055 --> 00:27:07,895 Williams index for her collectibles. 517 00:27:07,915 --> 00:27:12,785 There's going to be all these different assets that we value. 518 00:27:13,275 --> 00:27:18,785 And by we, the value of culture is going to finally ascend in a way that we've 519 00:27:18,785 --> 00:27:21,065 never been able to quantify before. 520 00:27:21,715 --> 00:27:23,515 You know? 521 00:27:23,555 --> 00:27:27,095 It's gonna make some- it's definitely can confuse a lot of 522 00:27:27,095 --> 00:27:28,495 boomers in the next 10 years. 523 00:27:28,645 --> 00:27:30,485 Myself included at times. 524 00:27:30,905 --> 00:27:37,865 Tiffany: After you started tweeting about how you're making NFT choices based on 525 00:27:37,905 --> 00:27:40,085 the things that Olympia was pointing at. 526 00:27:40,415 --> 00:27:45,305 I started getting DMs from parents being like, "How should I think 527 00:27:45,305 --> 00:27:50,420 about building the NFT portfolio for my kids?' It's amazing! 528 00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:50,900 So- 529 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,130 Alexis: I believe it. 530 00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:55,850 I just her pick all of my Cool Cats, so she picked up 531 00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:56,810 the ones that looked like me. 532 00:27:57,140 --> 00:27:58,730 So we'll see how that strategy does. 533 00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:01,860 Tiffany: It'll do better than your average. 534 00:28:01,910 --> 00:28:02,450 I'm sure. 535 00:28:02,610 --> 00:28:03,780 Alexis: I mean, shes got good taste. 536 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,370 That's what wild. 537 00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:08,060 I don't even- how do you even value- is there some tool that I don't know about 538 00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:11,150 to properly value your NFT collection? 539 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:13,460 Aside from just looking at like the floors. 540 00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:18,740 Tiffany: Zapper.fi is probably the best bet to see what your 541 00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:20,610 portfolio value is worth right now. 542 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:26,510 But I do think they assess based on floors instead of by traits. 543 00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:28,970 Which is super intricate, right? 544 00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:35,030 Like you have to plug into Rarity Tools or like the contract itself 545 00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:39,160 to know how much this is worth, or just look at the floor on Open Sea. 546 00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:40,870 Alexis: It's worth it. 547 00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:43,190 Tiffany: A couple of different ways of looking at it. 548 00:28:43,570 --> 00:28:44,945 Go to Zappify, go check it out. 549 00:28:45,025 --> 00:28:45,735 Might be fun. 550 00:28:47,035 --> 00:28:48,275 I actually just signed up. 551 00:28:48,275 --> 00:28:49,295 Alexis: Not investment advice. 552 00:28:49,295 --> 00:28:50,095 Tiffany: Yeah, not investment advice. 553 00:28:50,115 --> 00:28:54,665 I just looked at my portfolio last week off of it. 554 00:28:54,695 --> 00:28:55,445 It's really fun. 555 00:28:55,535 --> 00:28:58,565 Also, it's really, really fun to go look at other people's 556 00:28:58,805 --> 00:29:00,215 portfolios and what they're worth. 557 00:29:00,485 --> 00:29:02,465 That's way more fun than looking at yourself. 558 00:29:02,945 --> 00:29:04,665 Alexis: That's so wild. 559 00:29:04,985 --> 00:29:05,405 Man. 560 00:29:05,525 --> 00:29:11,475 I mean, but like this is going to be something really, really remarkable. 561 00:29:11,735 --> 00:29:18,350 This podcast and, and I'm hyped to be able to do this with you, because I know- like 562 00:29:18,350 --> 00:29:23,420 I said, I still feel like I'm swimming in the deep end because I have- like I cannot 563 00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:25,440 devote a 100% of my brain space to this. 564 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,350 So there are things I'm going to be learning as well as complaining about 565 00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:31,560 because I'm the resident boomer. 566 00:29:32,350 --> 00:29:33,030 So this'll be- 567 00:29:33,030 --> 00:29:34,750 Tiffany: Geriatric millennial. 568 00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:36,250 Alexis: Geriatric millennial. 569 00:29:36,275 --> 00:29:40,295 Tiffany: You're not quite a boomer, but you self classify as such. 570 00:29:40,625 --> 00:29:41,785 Alexis: I do, I do. 571 00:29:42,245 --> 00:29:45,455 Tiffany: And so does Lulu. 572 00:29:45,455 --> 00:29:45,735 Alexis: Lulu knows. 573 00:29:45,735 --> 00:29:50,365 Lulu used to be my intern now she's at islands and she keeps me humble. 574 00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:55,915 You know, Gen X-er, Gary Vaynerchuk, has done a hell of a job in this space. 575 00:29:56,555 --> 00:30:01,490 I think it's very interesting because he's playing 4D chess because he 576 00:30:01,490 --> 00:30:06,680 knows every investment he makes in VeeFriends is also building 577 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,360 credibility for his bigger business, working with other- like working- like 578 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,300 supporting brands and helping brands navigate their digital strategy. 579 00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:19,970 And so it's doubly smart because he's dogfooding all the best practices that 580 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:21,510 he's going to brands with these days. 581 00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:23,230 Tiffany: Brilliant. 582 00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:24,040 He's brilliant. 583 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,255 Alexis: It's very, very smart. 584 00:30:27,225 --> 00:30:32,405 Tiffany: His strategy around VeeFriends was also like an impeccable execute. 585 00:30:32,585 --> 00:30:33,155 Alexis: Yes. 586 00:30:33,635 --> 00:30:34,115 Yeah. 587 00:30:34,475 --> 00:30:38,345 And especially with a demographic that I'm sure had to get educated 588 00:30:38,345 --> 00:30:40,785 on a lot of crypto things. 589 00:30:41,055 --> 00:30:44,945 I think the typical Gary Vee fan six months ago, or whatever it was they 590 00:30:44,945 --> 00:30:47,765 launched that was not like knee deep. 591 00:30:48,785 --> 00:30:51,455 You know, Metamask, Rainbow wallet plugged in, ready to 592 00:30:51,455 --> 00:30:53,335 go buying and selling all day. 593 00:30:53,475 --> 00:30:57,975 He really had to do an education and bring folks in, and from a utility 594 00:30:57,995 --> 00:30:59,555 standpoint has been very smart. 595 00:30:59,935 --> 00:31:02,315 I love seeing that. 596 00:31:02,845 --> 00:31:07,535 This is the part where we're in that early phase where now everyone 597 00:31:07,535 --> 00:31:11,045 is looking over at other great projects, taking inspiration, 598 00:31:11,075 --> 00:31:12,425 figuring out how to do stuff better. 599 00:31:12,425 --> 00:31:17,255 I mean, it's going to be a rapid iteration and the things that we 600 00:31:17,255 --> 00:31:21,455 think of as remarkable today in like three months and certainly in six 601 00:31:21,455 --> 00:31:24,455 months and nine months are going to seem boring and like milk toast. 602 00:31:24,815 --> 00:31:27,925 And, oh man, it's going to be, it's going to be fun cause we got 603 00:31:27,925 --> 00:31:28,865 lots to talk about every week. 604 00:31:29,405 --> 00:31:30,725 Tiffany: Yeah, exactly. 605 00:31:30,755 --> 00:31:35,445 Well, this is just the start and, um, final question. 606 00:31:36,205 --> 00:31:39,365 If you're stranded on an island for one year and could only take one of your 607 00:31:39,365 --> 00:31:41,255 NFTs with you, which one would it be? 608 00:31:43,865 --> 00:31:44,525 Alexis: Oh, that's easy. 609 00:31:44,525 --> 00:31:45,985 It's the, well- 610 00:31:46,785 --> 00:31:47,935 Tiffany: It's one of your punks? 611 00:31:48,455 --> 00:31:50,295 Alexis: I was going to say it'd be one of my Serena punks. 612 00:31:50,325 --> 00:31:53,185 Probably the one that I brought to the Met is the one that I gifted her. 613 00:31:53,585 --> 00:31:53,805 Tiffany: Yeah. 614 00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:58,475 Alexis: I still own like five or six others that I'm just hanging on to for 615 00:31:58,555 --> 00:32:01,685 Olympia's future college fund or whatever. 616 00:32:01,685 --> 00:32:01,805 Tiffany: Haha. 617 00:32:01,825 --> 00:32:10,460 One of those will be able to pay off her college fund and her future kids' college. 618 00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:12,140 Alexis: Probably, yeah. 619 00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:14,310 Okay, let's get wild though. 620 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:22,060 So yes, and infrastructure will exist so that she wouldn't even need to sell it. 621 00:32:23,030 --> 00:32:27,340 Whether it's like, you know, today, a wealthy person who has a Van Gogh 622 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:31,340 doesn't need to sell the Van Gogh to get liquidity, they can borrow 623 00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:32,990 against it and use it as collateral. 624 00:32:33,965 --> 00:32:37,115 First Republic is not going to give me collateral for a Cryptopunk today. 625 00:32:37,355 --> 00:32:39,365 There might already be defy solutions. 626 00:32:39,365 --> 00:32:42,575 I don't know, but like, there's going to be some version of this, whether it's 627 00:32:42,575 --> 00:32:49,855 fractionalizing 49% of it, so other people can own it or just borrowing against it. 628 00:32:49,855 --> 00:32:54,695 So that's the crazy part is we're talking about an asset that is 629 00:32:54,995 --> 00:32:58,265 digital and is going to have all those same properties from the analog 630 00:32:58,265 --> 00:33:00,035 world, except it'll be so seamless. 631 00:33:01,175 --> 00:33:05,465 It'll just happen with a couple of taps and money will appear that 632 00:33:05,465 --> 00:33:09,335 then she can use for school and for, you know, for her kids' school. 633 00:33:09,335 --> 00:33:09,905 And who knows. 634 00:33:09,905 --> 00:33:12,605 I mean that's- and so yeah, to answer that question, I would take the 635 00:33:12,605 --> 00:33:14,165 Serena Cryptopunk that I gifted her. 636 00:33:14,165 --> 00:33:18,155 Cause then it would make me like nostalgic for when I wasn't stuck on this island 637 00:33:18,155 --> 00:33:19,225 and I could actually see my wife. 638 00:33:20,245 --> 00:33:21,905 Thats the right answer for any husband. 639 00:33:22,585 --> 00:33:23,125 Tiffany: Very cute. 640 00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:24,725 Alexis: What would yours be? 641 00:33:25,455 --> 00:33:29,165 Tiffany: Mine would have to be the Cool Cat that im repping everywhere. 642 00:33:29,315 --> 00:33:30,825 Alexis: Ah, okay, well it is your PFP. 643 00:33:31,015 --> 00:33:32,575 Yeah, that's a tough one. 644 00:33:32,875 --> 00:33:35,465 You all need to build a solution for this. 645 00:33:35,615 --> 00:33:39,965 I don't know which PFP to- I threw up my Bored Ape cause a 646 00:33:39,965 --> 00:33:42,195 couple of Bored Ape folks who are like, "Yo, you at the Bored Ape?" 647 00:33:42,195 --> 00:33:43,825 And I'm like, "Of course I'm in the yacht club, man. 648 00:33:43,835 --> 00:33:44,735 I've been there a minute." 649 00:33:44,735 --> 00:33:47,585 And so I had, you know, put it up, but then it's like now I'm 650 00:33:47,585 --> 00:33:52,925 implicitly betraying Cryptopunks and Cool Cats and Pudgy Penguins. 651 00:33:52,955 --> 00:33:58,025 I need a better sense of identity thats not Twitter that's built for this world. 652 00:33:58,055 --> 00:34:00,125 Is there something- can islands built this for me? 653 00:34:01,925 --> 00:34:05,655 Tiffany: Maybe soon. 654 00:34:05,675 --> 00:34:07,085 Maybe soon. 655 00:34:07,085 --> 00:34:13,085 NFTs just got a lot more interesting, but it's "probably nothing." 656 00:34:13,415 --> 00:34:18,245 You might be able to take out a loan against it for your future kids who knows. 657 00:34:18,875 --> 00:34:24,935 Well, we will dive into all of these use cases, examples, stories, projects, and 658 00:34:24,935 --> 00:34:26,555 bring on the most interesting guests. 659 00:34:27,125 --> 00:34:31,235 Send us who you want us to interview and have on board, and we'll 660 00:34:31,235 --> 00:34:32,655 see you on Discord and Twitter. 661 00:34:35,045 --> 00:34:35,875 Alexis: Bye everybody.