Burnout and Sabbatical with Sean McCabe

Show Notes

"I completely numbed myself out because it's like, you know, what do you do if your kid's stuck under the car? Like. You lift up the car, you find a way, and if it feels like your, your arms are going to come out of their sockets, will you keep holding until they crawl out from underneath the car?

You don't know where you find the energy you just, you just do. Right. It was like that, you know, you just have to numb yourself out to take care of people. But that was the wrong way to go about it. Like I, and of course it ultimately reached a breaking point. I ultimately reached a breaking point that resulted in my being burned out and depressed for two years." -Sean McCabe

Have you ever thought to yourself "am I burning out?", then that means you already are on your way (according to Sean McCabe).

Sean (known to most as seanwes) talks about burnout from very real experience, having reached max burnout running his company over the past 10 years. He is someone that I have followed over the past few years because of the wisdom that he shares openly with his audience, this topic being no exception. This topic is so very important today more than ever due to the changes going on in the world. Most people are operating in some low level burn out state and don't realize it or know how to fix it.

Very fun chat with Sean. I also found out in the interview that he is from a family with 13 kids!

Where to find Sean:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/seanwes
His Blog: https://seanwes.com/
His Agency: DailyContentMachine.co

Transcript Below (May contain typos):
Sean: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]I completely numbed myself out because it's like, you know, what do you do if your kid's stuck under the car? Like. You lift up the car, you find a way, and if it feels like your, your arms are going to come out of their sockets, will you keep holding until they crawl out from underneath the car?

You don't know where you find the energy you just, you just do. Right. It was like that, you know, you just have to numb yourself out to take care of people. But that was the wrong way to go about it. Like I, and of course it ultimately reached a breaking point. I ultimately reached a breaking point that resulted in my being burned out and depressed for two years. 

Mike: [00:00:38] Have you ever asked yourself? I feel like I might be burning out. Well, if you have, then you probably already are on your way. It just a matter of how burned out you are, but you're inevitably going to reach that point of total burnout unless you change something. , that was the advice given by today's guest, Sean McCabe. 

[00:01:00] Most might know him by his,  online named Sean Wes. He's a guy that I've followed for quite a few years and very prolific entrepreneur online, very, , inspiring creator, , in a lot of the work that he does, but. He shares a lot of good wisdom around the topic of burnout, which has come up a lot in conversations I've had with fellow entrepreneurs. 

So if you're feeling like you're burned out, I encourage you just to listen in on today's episode, to understand a little bit more about what you can do about it. And one of the topics that Sean talks about is this notion of a sabbatical. And it's something I've been really interested in, really seeing a lot more people. 

Experiment with it. And there will be more content on that to come in the podcast. But I wanted you to learn from Sean and hear his story because. The last thing you want to do is repeat a mistake that you could have [00:02:00] learned by hearing someone else talk about it so let's jump into the episode with sean 

today on the podcast, we have a very special guest, um, Sean McCabe known on the internet as Shawn West, um, from many projects, but I've been following Sean for a long time. He does amazing work. He is an entrepreneur with many different ventures. He's an author, podcaster, vlogger, um, He's not a dad, but he brings a very unique perspective to balancing entrepreneurship with, um, with burnout and, and, and a sabbatical as a solution.

So, Sean, thank you so much for being on the show, man. It's it's such an honor to have you on the show. 

Sean: [00:02:39] Oh, thanks so much, Mike. I I've been looking forward to it. I'm glad we were able to make it happen. You're right. Not a dad, but I am the oldest of 13 kids and I've changed well over a thousand diapers. So I don't know what that qualifies me, but 

Mike: [00:02:52] I should have known that before this interview, I knew you had a big family.

You're the oldest of 

Sean: [00:02:56] 13 kids. That is awesome. 

Mike: [00:02:59] That is [00:03:00] amazing. Yeah. So, so we need to start there then. So you got, so I guess, um, you know, I know you've done a lot and I don't want to get too much into the business side, even though you, you have some amazing accomplishments there and, and a lot of the ventures that you started, but, um, man, tell me about, tell me about growing up in a family of 13 kids.

That's awesome. 

Sean: [00:03:22] Never a dull moment for sure. I remember walking around the house with a camera, like one of those before smartphones had cameras, you know, just film filming in every room. And there was a kid, there was multiple kids in every room, like just all over the, you know, the couch and under the desk and everywhere.

Um, so never a dull moment. Uh, but they're, they're great, you know, really well behaved, like we'd go out to eat. Everyone's super well behaved. You know, people would. Give compliments to the parents. So great family. We're all really good. Good friends. Still stay really close today. Um, yeah, it's it's holidays are a [00:04:00] blast and it's starting to grow exponentially as like kids have kids.

And, um, but for now, for now, we can meet. In one house for the holidays. 

Mike: [00:04:10] That is awesome. Yeah. So, um, you said you're the oldest? Um, so my wife is the eldest of eight kids. Um, and I, and everyone is says, Whoa, whenever I zone that, I'm the, I'm the youngest of four, but. I'm sure you experienced this too. It's like when you have a get together, it's like a huge party and it's just family members, right?

Sean: [00:04:30] It's like 

Mike: [00:04:33] just immediate family. It's not even aunts 

Sean: [00:04:34] and uncles. It's a, it's a good time. I had started my first business. Um, so I'm, I'm almost 32. So about 15, 16 years ago is when I started my first business. I still lived at home, uh, just coming out of high school and, um, Yeah, I would work like after midnight, because that's when it would get quiet.

That was like the only time that was, I had this focus time. 

[00:05:00] Mike: [00:05:00] That's awesome. Yeah. So we, um, I feel that same way, but I have four kids at home, so I feel ya, you know, I got the, we got the fifth one coming in February. 

Sean: [00:05:08] Um, but congrats. 

Mike: [00:05:10] Well, thank you. Um, That's I'm so I'm pumped. I'm sorry, I'm thrown off a little bit.

I'm so excited to hear that you 

Sean: [00:05:16] were 

Mike: [00:05:17] 13 because you have such a unique perspective. 

Sean: [00:05:20] Um, and, and, uh, homeschooled, which I think you're also, are you okay? 

Mike: [00:05:25] Yeah, I, we homeschool our kids. Um, I say we with a very small w because my wife does 90 plus percent of all of that. So, um, my job is to support her and all that she's doing.

So, um, yeah, we love, we love doing that. It's been great. Our kids, the oldest is nine, so we're not, so we have a nine year old, seven year old, a four year old and a two year old. So. The nine and seven are kind of more into, down the road, but the foreign to you, or just, just kinda starting out as a different stuff.

So, yeah. And I had Nathan Berry on the show, I know he was homeschooled. And then I had Ryan, Ryan Delk [00:06:00] on the show, who's doing the primer startup, which is really cool. And so 

Sean: [00:06:04] that is really interesting, but both of those guys, yeah, 

Mike: [00:06:07] those guys are really cool. And it's interesting to see. I mean, both of those are like tech guys.

Right. And they're tackling the problem in a unique way, or I guess Nathan's not really tackling homeschooling with Comerica, but, um, it's really cool to hear their perspective, having gone through it and then to see how technology can help, you know, Provide superpowers as is primers, you know, tagline, right?

Sean: [00:06:31] Yeah. It's a whole new era for homeschooling, especially with, uh, well, it, things are getting increasingly digital anyway, but then you have the pandemic accelerating all of that too. 

Mike: [00:06:41] Yeah. So, so you were homeschooled and so. That's pretty cool. That's it seems like that's a, that's an assumed thing with 13 kids.

Riley, maybe that's a speaking out term. 

Sean: [00:06:52] Yeah. I attribute it. Uh, my, my love for learning, I, I attribute to being homeschooled, [00:07:00] so, you know, read every book in the house, like whatever they did, you know, they did, they did something. Right. Cause they instilled a love of learning. And I think that definitely lent itself to my entrepreneurial ventures.

Yeah. I feel like if, 

Mike: [00:07:16] if, if, if we homeschool our kids and they don't learn a 

Sean: [00:07:19] single academic fact, but they are 

Mike: [00:07:23] super curious and super resourceful, I will have succeeded as we will basically see it as parents. Because 

Sean: [00:07:31] the 

Mike: [00:07:31] reason I say that is because I feel like. The worst traditional public schools beat that out of you by design.

And it's not a, not a knock on school teachers. There's amazing teachers. I'm not trying to do that. That I think that's the problem. I think people tend to speak ill of just traditional schooling when it's like, I think it's just the model is fundamentally flawed. Um, and you can't make that up. The thing I get so passionate when I talk to people, I was like, 

Sean: [00:07:57] you, if you beat the love of learning 

Mike: [00:07:59] out of [00:08:00] a child and you make it a chore, Good luck making that up when they turn 18, it's like, it sets them up for a life of failure because it's always drudgery, you know, it's all like, it's like that's and that's so unfortunate.

It's like, it's like a, it's like a, a tragedy. It's so sad. How many 

Sean: [00:08:20] of us, how many of us hate reading or writing? Because whatever it is that we were forced to write or read. Was something we didn't care about. And that's, that's something you have the ability to tailor with homeschooling is, is the facilitation of, uh, of love for these things like reading and writing when, when you can center it around what the kid is already interested 

Mike: [00:08:44] in.

Yeah. We, my son, my nine year old son, he. It was like two years ago he got into rockets. So we bought him like a model rocket, like when you launch up, you know, and it's fine. And he was like, all about it. We'd watch like the space X launches. And it's like, I just was like, yeah, [00:09:00] let's 

Sean: [00:09:00] feed 

Mike: [00:09:00] everything you got, man.

And he'd like, he'd get books on it. And then, and then you provide a framework for learning all these other things. I mean, he's not at the point yet, but it's like, You bro, the reason you need to learn math and calculus and somebody thinks is so you can build a rocket. It's not some abstract thing. This is, this is a tool to do this and, and.

He was, he was a little bit slower to read and it's like, well, our philosophy is like, well, we're not going to push him. And sure enough, once he got to, he got this book called hatchet, which I don't know if you've ever read that as a kid. It's like, you know, it's like a kid that they, the plane goes down in the middle of the wilderness.

He has to survive as hatchet. And he's like all about it, you know? Cause we went camping one time. He's like all kinds of hatchet and it's like, he's reading it and he's like, soaking it up. And it's like, I didn't say, Oh this month you have to read four books. You know, it's just him chasing his interest in.

It seems so simple, but you can't do that in a, in a huge mass like instructional model, right? You can't 

Sean: [00:09:57] anyways. Yeah, because what you're doing is you're, you're [00:10:00] answering the implicit. Why should I care question? 

Mike: [00:10:03] Mm. Yeah. 

Sean: [00:10:07] And so, and so much time is a disproportionate amount of time is spent on rote memorization, which is virtually useless because like, I, I just was telling my team earlier today and, and you know, on another interview earlier in the week, I do not try to remember anything.

I never try to remember anything, not a single thing, something I want to tell my wife, I throw it on a list. Something I want to do in my business. I throw it on my list, an email I need to reply to. I throw it on a list. I don't try to remember anything at all. I keep my mind completely clear and use computers to capture ideas and write things down and remember things for me.

And if I ever need information, I can search for it either in my own documents or my own, you know, database of information or on the internet. Or I just ask the device in my [00:11:00] pocket or attached to my wrist, what the answer to something is. And it tells me, so I don't have to use my brain for storage and just, you know, accumulating all of this stuff, like, uh, like a storage unit.

Um, I can use it for processing power. I can think about things. I, I can think through things that I care about. And, and so much time is spent forcing kids to remember things they can search for. Hm. Well, 

Mike: [00:11:26] the thought that just struck me with that is your, your barometer for how smart you are, where you're at.

If you're, if you're taught in that way, or you're taught to value, memorization is how many things you remember? I was never good at remembering things. And I always felt like I should know all these, remember these things, you know, and. That, that, that was a detriment to my confidence. Right? As opposed to you, you twist it and say, no, your brain is for these processing things to be thinking about these things, to solve these problems.

You know, you shouldn't have to worry about things [00:12:00] because even the things that are naturally your, you should remember, or you use often, you typically remember anyways, even if you're not forced to. Like I was an engineer. I went to school to be an engineer. It's like, 

Sean: [00:12:12] instead of 

Mike: [00:12:12] sitting down and memorizing all these formulas, you just use them a lot.

So you just kind of recall them. 

Sean: [00:12:16] Right. 

Mike: [00:12:17] But you're not forcing yourself to remember every single one you're saying, no, I need to think about how I can use these in a way that I can get the result I need. 

Sean: [00:12:25] So you're holding yourself as well. It's like, you don't have to remember every single. Function and syntax because you can just look it up.

And of course you do remember the things you use on a frequent basis, but you don't have to. It's more important that you learn how to think that you learn how to solve problems. And that happens when, when we simply, uh, enable kids to work on things they're already passionate about. It just happens naturally.

Mike: [00:12:55] But when you say you need to learn how to think, like, how's that going to be on the test? How has that, how [00:13:00] is that going to be on the test? How am I going to be tested on this? How to think thing that you speak of Sean, like what's actually gonna be on the test like that. That's the mentality that are taught.

It's like, that's crazy. 

Sean: [00:13:13] Cause it w we care. We, we teach people to care more about. Having the right answers instead of asking the right questions, it's a lot easier to just tell me what the right thing to say is what is the right answer I need to put on the test. All you're doing is setting yourself up to be replaced by a robot, but you need to learn how, how to think and how to determine what problems are are interesting.

What problems are worth solving, what questions are or worth asking right now? . 

Mike: [00:13:45] Yeah, absolutely. 

Sean: [00:13:47] So 

Mike: [00:13:47] I think, I truly think it's a, it's a Dawn of a new era for education, you know, for. Um, primary education, I'll say, um, and, and higher education, obviously that's, that's being very disrupted right now, but, [00:14:00] um, which I'm real excited about.

And I think it's cool to see it like decentralized in a lot of ways, you know, you have these like different startups that are saying, Hey, we see this problem. We see how the current solution is not working and we're attacking it in a certain way. And just the same as we were just saying, like each kid has, has their own interests.

Each person's going to gravitate towards one of these type of solutions because the model just works for them and how they learn and maybe how their kids are, where they're located, what access technology they have, what comfort level. And that is like to me, a really cool, you know, so, all right. So let's switch gears a little bit.

Um, so tell me about, tell me about your business journey a little bit, give it like, give us a high level overview, because I know that where I first heard of you. Was in your learn lettering course. And I don't remember how I came across it. Exactly. This was gotta be five years ago. I don't know when you launched that, but 

Sean: [00:14:59] yeah, [00:15:00] like go to this guy, Sean West, 

Mike: [00:15:01] like he's cool.

And then I think I downloaded like a free thing and I obviously wasn't, I didn't buy the whole thing cause I wasn't going to go into that. But then I started following your podcast and just got really into all the stuff you were doing. So to give us the background a little bit 

Sean: [00:15:13] there. Yeah. So before that I had a couple, couple of businesses, computer repair, and then I started doing repair for people who had businesses.

And then they started asking me if I could work on their website. And so I learned how to do that and then ended up growing that and working with a partner for several years, we ran a firm and on the side I was enjoying. Drawing letters just as a hobby, but that ultimately became the thing that I focused on because I started getting demand from that.

I was just drawing for fun, just kind of posting it online early Instagram days. And, um, just every day I would draw something and share it. And nobody really cared for two years. But after showing up every day for two [00:16:00] years, suddenly it seemed like my work was being noticed and people started caring and.

Asking me to do custom work, or if they could buy t-shirts with my designs or posters and stuff. And so that eventually became the full thing and that's what I focused on. And then people wanted to learn how, how to do what I was doing and how do I make a living as a hand lettering artist. And so I put out my first course on that learn lettering, as you mentioned.

And in that, I kind of found that as much as I enjoyed the art, I liked. Teaching the business side of art and, and helping people figure out how, how could they do something they enjoyed doing for a living. So just sharing everything that I was learning started starting the podcast, Shawn West podcast, just.

Sharing what I was learning as I went and people were getting a lot out of that. And I just, I felt so much fulfillment from that. Helping people get unstuck with their creative passions and how to make money from that start a business on their own [00:17:00] that I just leaned into that completely. And so now where I'm at now is like more of a focus of.

Helping people figure out how to take the thing that they actually enjoy doing and make money from it in a way that is sustainable from how do I price my work to, how could I sell products or teach what I know, just deconstructing that for people making it simpler. And then most recently, uh, starting an agency for people.

So beyond just telling people how to do the work, I get people asking me, Hey, can you do the work for me? And so we started this. Agency that helps people take their long form videos and turns it into these shorter clips for social media. So that's kind of where we're at today is focusing on that. We call it the daily content machine.

Mike: [00:17:47] Yeah, no. When I saw that, when I saw that daily content machine, I was one of the things that flashed in my mind is there's these services that will, that I've heard about that will help non-fiction authors [00:18:00] write a book. And the way that I understand them is there's like this download of information to have, and it's through the course of maybe some video calls or some, some long form conversations.

And they're basically like sucking the knowledge out of them to then turn into a book. But then that's kind of what you're doing to some degree. It's like, at least this is my interpretation, correct me if I'm wrong, because it's like, okay, okay, Sean, I know this skill you're, you've helped me realize that it's monetized bubble and here's the fundamental things, how I should approach that.

But I, I'm kind of stuck. Like there's a lot of work involved in that I can't connect all of these dots and you're saying, Hey. Let's go straight, the book, let's go straight your business. You know, it goes form your business and you're sucking all of that knowledge out of them and saying, wait, here's these fundamental things that never change and let's do that.

And, and with the daily conduct machine, it's interesting that when I saw you pitch that having followed you for so long, it's like, Hey, he's actually has done this. You know, it's not just a theoretical thing. Hey, this shit could work, [00:19:00] which most marketing things are kind of like our marketing firms that aren't really proven are kind of like that.

What would you just do those slices up? You need to do content marketing, you know, it's like, 

Sean: [00:19:07] no, this is like a 

Mike: [00:19:08] coordinated approach specifically for individual creators, because that's what you, you were, you 

Sean: [00:19:13] know, so it's is really cool. It's very similar. Like you said to the, the nonfiction book service, you know, where you're downloading and really it's a, it's a distillation process where say you, you went on this, you know, weekend retreat where this company is going to just interview you and record everything you say and transcribe it and go through it and figure out what's relevant.

What's not relevant. Oh, he went on a tangent here that doesn't need to be included in the book. You know, th those are the kinds of things they're thinking through. Similarly with the daily content machine, we're taking your long form content and, and we're transcribing everything you say, and we're scrubbing through it using like my proprietary methods.

I've, I've just turned. The way I've done everything myself into [00:20:00] processes and trained people on how to do it. What is a clippable moment? What is something that would work this two minute segment right here? What, how could this work without the context of everything else that was said in this 60 minute conversation?

You know, those are the things that we think through and like, what's irrelevant. What should we remove? Obviously the filler words to make people look good, but even this tangent here, does this add to the point or the takeaway of the clip? What are we trying to say here? What, what is the message? Who is, who is this for?

Who's our client's target audience. And so we filter that. Um, we filter everything through that to come up with what the title should be. So we also write the titles. So that's kind of what sets us apart is actually finding the good stuff in your long form content and then editing it in, in an engaging way and titling it in a way that people actually want to click and keep watching.

Yeah, 

Mike: [00:20:54] no, I think that's really important because it's a, it's a more robust service than just saying, find me 32nd [00:21:00] clips, you know, in this long video. And it's like, wow. 

Sean: [00:21:04] Cause it was for me, like the end result had to be, I want to show up on camera with a microphone and talk for an hour and then I want to press stop and be done.

And that's it. Like everything else has to have don't don't come back and ask me what template do you want to use? Don't come back and ask me what timestamp don't come back and ask me what title, like, handle all of it. So, you know, I just spent the past year, like coming up with that process and, and I've found that other people want this as well.

It's like, they don't want the full-time job of figuring out what the clips should be on top of the full-time job they already have. It's like, you know, they don't want to have to hire a video editor who asked them a bunch of questions. Cause it's like, I'm trying to do other work, like do it for me, you know, I know that's what I want.

And so I, I kind of reverse engineered that, uh, with the service. So have you 

Mike: [00:21:54] found that people that are enticed by your service are, um, [00:22:00] constrained by their, um, uh, desire for detail or hyper? Um, madness of has to be per their, their perfectionism. 

Sean: [00:22:10] Not our clients. Um, and, and just to be Frank, because by, by the time you get to this level, you understand that's the wrong way to, and I know that's, I say that having been someone who was stuck at that, at that point for years, Like as someone who is an artist at heart, who, who is creative, who has an eye for design and like who has written a lot of words and, and edited, you know?

And like, I want to be involved because I feel like if I am, it will be better. And, and no one's going to do it as well as me because they don't care as much as I do. And that is what I call a superhero syndrome. And that's what holds people back for so long. And it's, it's a, it's a glass ceiling you have to break through.

It's, it's something you have to learn and level up. With, but once you do it's total freedom. When you realize the [00:23:00] 20 things you do that you think, Oh, you know, I have to do all of these because no, one's going to care as much. Well, if you delegate them to different people and this person has two or three of the things, and this person has one and this person has the other eventually, because they only have two things to focus on instead of your 20, they'll not only do it as well as you, but they'll surpass you.

Cause it was their focus. So yeah, the people who are at the level of wanting. To, to hire a service like ours. That's how they're thinking. And if they're not thinking that way, I don't take them on as a client. Yeah. 

Mike: [00:23:34] So I've already surpassed that they've gotten over that hump to some degree. 

Sean: [00:23:37] Yeah. 

Mike: [00:23:39] Yeah. I, I definitely, I, I see that point 110%.

I think what I was also curious about is the. The differentiation of the value you provide beyond just a very simplistic video editing service or something, right? Like there's that, there's that nuance the, um, attention to [00:24:00] detail, contextual knowledge of. You know, what makes a value or valuable content and all of that, like all that experience you're leveraging that people see, but that could have been the hurdle from that.

They need someone like you, and they don't want to just hand it off to some person like fiber or something to like, just chop it up. Cause they're like this guy doesn't really know what I'm trying to achieve. Um, but you offer just that added value. 

Sean: [00:24:22] That is a challenge for me is the differentiation. Cause it just at face value.

Cause you, you want to simplify yourself to the point where you're memorable, right? We, we take your long form content. We turned it into short clips for social media. You know that that's a nice sentence that gets someone's attention, but there's, there's more to it. So like I've, I've kind of distilled it down to, um, a little bit of a longer sentence that kind of does it succinctly.

So it is. We find the best moments from your long form videos and turn them into short clips. Then we write engaging titles and add flawless captions [00:25:00] that does a little bit better of a job in saying like, we find the best moments, but I do have to go out of my way to really emphasize, like, this is what makes us different.

Nobody else is doing this part. They're just saying, all right, tell us where you want to trim and we'll trim the in and the out point it's like no, w w w the end result has to be. That you show up and record and press stop, and then magic comes out the other end, like your job is done at that point. 

Mike: [00:25:25] You guys are like, you're trying to get the N the sticky sound bites to get into your audience's head.

Like you said something a long time ago that said show up every day for two years, that's like lodged in my brain. When I talk to people, I'll tell them that they're like, Oh, I want to do this. I'm like, just go freaking do it. And just go do it while no one is, is paying attention while no one is like giving you a like, you know, and, and you're going to find out a lot about 

Sean: [00:25:54] yourself because you're either going to 

Mike: [00:25:56] do it or you're not.

And if you don't do it, then you have to say, Oh, I didn't really [00:26:00] want it. You know, or something of that. It's like, but that's a sticky sound bite that, that somehow got through your filtering. Or maybe you just said it in a podcast. I don't even know, but you, but you said it over and over again, this wasn't like a one-time thing.

It was a recurring thing that I'm like. That's like a philosophy of Sean West, right. It was like a core value or about business, but it's like, it's a sticky sound bite and now let's do a pocket. I'll have a sticky soundbite. That'll stick in my head. And I'm like, yeah, I'll regurgitate that later. You know?

And it's it's um, yeah, it, it's just interesting because I feel like there's people that do that. Well, you know, Jason freed, right? The guy that, and David Hunter, my hands on those guys that founded Basecamp. 

Sean: [00:26:43] He, they 

Mike: [00:26:44] write a lot in there really prolific. And one of the things that they said is if you have an important message to say, be prepared to say it over and over and over again.

And, um, they said something else about, you know, he said he doesn't, he doesn't record any Jason frees that he doesn't [00:27:00] record customer feedback because we don't have like a backlog because if I hear enough customers saying it it's everyone's yeah. It'll resurface like multiple times. Um, And so it's like, something like that.

It's like being able to say it over and over again. It's it's like, that's an ethos of like Shawn West. So anything you put out, it's like kind of always wrapping back to some of those core ideas, which is like super interesting. And I feel like. Maybe I've gone on too much of a rant here, but there's two things.

I think it play off of like creators. Like they want always say something new when it's and you do something you say too. I think there's not really a lot of new ideas. There's new, um, ref uh, contexts that you're putting them in or, um, perspectives or whatever, but the idea is not always new and that's okay.

You know, and instead you should focus on finding what are those core ideas are, those things you teach and just saying them over and over again, other forms of content, all this stuff. Obviously, this is all the stuff you say. I'm just telling you like, but it's, it's, it's, it's interesting because I think [00:28:00] those are the things that are holding people back from actually saying that over and over again, because they think they should be novel.

They don't really know how to say it over again. You know, it's like, there's these, these barriers that I see your service being able to provide to some degree, 

Sean: [00:28:13] you know? Well, it, yeah, it's, it's funny you say that because we hear this a lot as, as almost a hesitation from. Prospective clients for our daily content machine service.

It's like, they're actually worried about saying something too much and you know, everything I, I heard you just say, and I appreciate you saying that because it confirms to me what I've communicated. I've only communicated that, which I hear out of other people's mouths. If I don't hear my message out of someone else's mouth, I haven't communicated it.

I've just said it it's, it's, it's a message in a bottle. Did I ever make it, did anyone ever open it? Did they find it? You know, we're just projecting radio waves into space or are we communicating? Well, we don't know where we're broadcasting, but we don't know if we're [00:29:00] communicating. And so everything I heard you just say, I've said hundreds and hundreds of times, and really the only things that make it through.

Are the things I've said hundreds of times. And so if you don't feel blue in the face about your message, nobody's hearing it. Absolutely. Nobody's hearing it. You have to repeat it. And so just to set, set, some people free on that, maybe, um, you know, my, my philosophy is magic of seven. It takes people seven times hearing new information in order to retain it.

And the cool thing is. The seventh time you hear that new information is when it will click for you and you will attribute the value of that information to the seventh source. So if Gary V says something six times, but you said something similar in your own words, and that was the seventh time for someone they're going to be like, I remember that thing Mike told me, you know, you're, you're the average of the five [00:30:00] people you spend the most time.

And you're like, that's that wasn't me. But, uh, you know, someone's going to remember it as. You know, Mike, Mike said this, uh, so if you're ever worried, like, Oh, someone else said it, someone else said at first, someone else said it better. Like, just keep saying it, you know, like you said, there's nothing new under the sun.

Everything's a remix, there's new contexts. There's there's new times. Um, there's new, uh, You have unique perspectives, but there's also new combinations of things. You know, when you take something that's been said a lot, but you combine it with something else that's new and relevant. Uh, it can be insightful for someone.

So I never, I never hesitate repeating myself because number one, there's a lot of noise. It's hard to break through the algorithms and, and just all the posts and everything that's going on. But, but second, so, so people don't see everything. Yeah. You're like, I already already said this before already said that they're not seeing a promise, but secondly, even if someone sees something multiple [00:31:00] times, it, it takes many times of hearing the same information to get it, you know?

So you want to contribute as many tokens into the magic of seven box to create these aha moments for people. 

Mike: [00:31:13] Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. And to wrap it or back to, to. Fatherhood it's like more is caught than taught kind of philosophy. I mean, it's, there's, you need to be repeating yourself over and over again in action.

And indeed, um, 

Sean: [00:31:29] it, tell me, tell me about more is caught than taught 

Mike: [00:31:33] more. What you actually do is, is what they're caught. I think, I think that's the phrase me, I'm saying it wrong, but it's like, what you actually do is the message, as opposed to what you say. Moore's caught, like what's thrown at you then taught just like talk about right.

Like 

Sean: [00:31:47] yeah, they're watching, they're saying watch you. 

Mike: [00:31:50] Yeah. Like that. My mantra on fatherhood and what I'm constantly asking myself is how, how am I actually investing in myself to pursue excellence [00:32:00] in, in fitness, in business and in my faith and in all of these other things. Because I know that there's a trick there's trickle down parenting kind of thing is, is the philosophy, right?

Sean: [00:32:10] Um, 

Mike: [00:32:10] not to say I shouldn't be investing actively my kids, but you, if you're, it's way more impactful just to be the example than it is to just come up with the next sermon, you know, for your, for your kids. And I don't think that's understood enough. Um, and I think that, um, 

Sean: [00:32:31] I think it's, 

Mike: [00:32:32] it's unfortunate because a lot of parents that are overworked or they're just busy with, you know, they have a job, they got kids, they got also other stuff that they don't invest in themselves.

They invest in themselves last because they feel selfish 

Sean: [00:32:45] about that. 

Mike: [00:32:45] And these are good and intentional, you know, good intending fathers that what the downstream effect of 

Sean: [00:32:52] that though 

Mike: [00:32:53] is 

Sean: [00:32:53] you don't have any you're 

Mike: [00:32:54] well is empty. You know, you can't, and then you can't be doing these things that, and then you end up.

[00:33:00] Sean: [00:32:59] Living out 

Mike: [00:33:00] mediocrity, like in how you treat yourself and what you do and that's, what's caught, you know, and that's, that's just, that's just tragic. That's just unfortunate, you know, 

Sean: [00:33:10] and even further is, is like potential resentment too. Because when, when you're not putting yourself first in terms of taking care of yourself, so you can take care of your family longterm and you're, you're.

You're putting them first, but you know, as we've said, not quite in the right way, it can, you can build up this resentment in that you start to see your family as, as the thing that is getting in the way of you taking care of yourself, be that through some kind of recuperation or downtime or recharging or whatever, you start to see your family as the obstacle to that, when really it's on you, it's on you to take care of yourself first.

So that, like the reason you're putting them ahead of yourself in the short-term is like, it feels selfish to take that time. [00:34:00] And it's, you can kind of hide behind like, well, look, I'm putting them first, you know, I'm doing the right thing, but if long-term that ends up in you resenting them. Or blaming them for you not getting the time and then burning out and then really not being able to take care of anyone the way you want to.

It's not a good place. Yeah. 

Mike: [00:34:19] Very detrimental. And I think the first example you first learned that in marriage is the first step I think. And then you learn it in parenting and it's like to another level. Um, and it's just a,

Sean: [00:34:35] I don't 

Mike: [00:34:35] think doing that in a healthy way is taught enough.

Bad that are actually over investing in themselves. Like they're, they're not even investing in their kids to, you know, like that's also an issue, you know? So, so I think that, um, it's just not taught how to do that. Well, I guess, so you, you said [00:35:00] you mentioned burnout. Um, so I want to hear a little bit about, um, your journey to taking, I think, a sabbatical year.

Sean: [00:35:06] Is that correct? Yep. That's this year 2020. Yeah.  for a sabbatical year. Tell me about it. We were, we were planning to travel the world and we moved out of our house. Didn't have a house or a car backpacks just hit the road and got a couple of months in and then pandemic. So it was definitely interesting situation there.

Um, we've since. Settled down. Um, we decided to move to Boise and, and we're loving it here so far, but, uh, no more world travel for a bit, but leading up to this point, um, you know, like we said, not, not a father, a lot of, uh, uh, literally a dozen younger siblings, however, um, there there's, there's some similarities to having a team.

It's not, it's not the [00:36:00] same thing at all. Um, but it's, it's, you have to take care of people, you know, when you're the business owner and you have, at one point I had eight full-time employees, you know, they're on the payroll and you need to make sure they get, they get paid and they can take care of their families.

And so I, you know, to connect this, to what we're talking about, not putting yourself first, I had hired people to do great work. But around a business model that wasn't working no fault of their own. Uh, but it was my fault. And so the work they were doing was not resulting in the money that that would pay them to do the work.

And so I, on the side was doing other things to make money. To pay them because I'm thinking I have to take care of the family. Right. I have to take care of my team. I have to take care of my people. It all falls on me, you know, I'm the breadwinner, so to speak. And so I'm just [00:37:00] busting my butt, like just running myself into the ground for years.

Really. It's just like every two weeks I need another 15 grand, like everyday I need another thousand dollars. And like the work these eight people are doing is not producing that. I need to go drum up that income and it never ends. And so you're just on this hamster wheel and like you're running yourself into the ground and I was just numb and like, I didn't feel the water in the shower, you know, hitting me.

It was just, I completely numbed myself out because it's like, you know, what do you do if your kid's stuck under the car? Like. You lift up the car, you find a way, and if it feels like your, your arms are going to come out of their sockets, will you keep holding until they crawl out from underneath the car?

You don't know where you find the energy you just, you just do. Right. It was like that, you know, you just have to numb yourself out to take care of people. But that was the wrong way to go about it. Like I, and of [00:38:00] course it ultimately reached a breaking point. I ultimately reached a breaking point that resulted in my being burned out and depressed for two years.

And I'm still not a hundred percent like maybe 98% or something even now three, four, four years later. Like it takes a long time to recover from that. And I had to let everyone go. You know, th th the inevitable happened. I just, I just delayed it. I just kept pushing it, pushing, pushing, pushing, but, but if you keep pushing yourself, you're, you're gonna reach that breaking point.

Now, I had done these, um, seventh week sabbaticals because I recognize my workaholic tendencies some years ago. Like I was just working, working, working. I didn't have like good friend relationships. Everyone that I would have called a friend was on payroll. Yeah. You know, and, uh, and I was like, it's fine.

You know, it's, everything's great. You know, but like I was sitting at my desk all day. I wasn't even going outside. I was exercising. I would skip [00:39:00] meals. Like I was just working cause like, who else is going to do the work and make sure people get paid. And it was bad, you know? And I don't know how to tell people how not worth it.

Burnout is. Without them having to like, experience it themselves, like to realize how, just how detrimental it is. But if you haven't experienced burnout where you just feel like you're done, there's nothing you don't want to get out of bed. You know, you just feel like you've got nothing in you. Um, but you feel like you might be headed that way.

The litmus test I have for you is if you're asking the question, am I burned out? It's already happening. Like that is your warning sign. It's like, stop right there. If you're even asking the question it's happening right now, like you're in the process of burning out. You've got a pull back and I know it feels like you don't have the bandwidth to take care of yourself because everyone else is relying on [00:40:00] you.

But if you don't do it, If you don't take that time to reflect and recharge and rest and, and whatever you need to do, whatever that looks like, you know, for, for me, I call it a sabbatical, you know, but, um, if you don't do that burnouts in your future and, and it's, it's devastating, it can cause you to, it can cause you to lose your passion.

The thing that you've always loved your whole life. Like you can actually lose it and it never comes back. Maybe you find another passion, but like you risk killing the one you have right now. And you, you you're gonna pay the price. You're going to pay the price of years of recovery. 

Mike: [00:40:40] Um, 

Sean: [00:40:42] how do you, 

Mike: [00:40:43] um, 

Sean: [00:40:45] I think that's 

Mike: [00:40:45] really wise advice.

If you, if you even are asking yourself the question you're on the road to it, or you're in SA on the spectrum. How, how do you force yourself? Or what does that even look like? If you're [00:41:00] not, and I understand your story was you got to that point, right? You, you reached the breaking point, but it say a, say that's a 10 step process.

And I realize I'm on step, like three, four, maybe five. I'm not at a 10 yet. How do you, what can you do? You talked about a seven every seventh week or something sabbatical. And what, how do you even find, I feel like sometimes I've experienced this. I feel like I'm on that spectrum to some degree. And it's like, can I 

Sean: [00:41:28] revise what I said?

Because the way I like to put the way I like to put it is if you're asking the question, am I burning out? You already are like, so, so it's not like you're beginning the process of eventually becoming burned out, like. Right. No, right now you're burned out and it's only going to get worse. So see it as a light switch instead of a 10 step scale.

If you're asking the question, the light switch has been flicked. 

[00:42:00] Mike: [00:42:01] So then what do you do? So then you're not, you're not at a crisis point where it's like, I don't even want to get out of bed. Right. You're not like at a complete breaking point. You're like, okay, acknowledge this step back. 

Sean: [00:42:13] Assess or 

Mike: [00:42:16] what did you recommendation on?

What to what's the next step 

Sean: [00:42:18] there? Yeah. If you, you, if you keep going in the same direction, that's, that's in your future. So we don't want to do that. Um, the solution I've found is you have to schedule the break or it won't happen and it has to be a recurring break. So if you're like me where it's like.

You have two modes on and off, it's like, you're, you're obsessed or you don't care, you know, you're, you're all in or you're nothing. Um, and it's like, you know, you don't know how to be, what, what balanced or in-between or like, what is slowed down? It's like, I'm doing this or I'm not, you know, if, [00:43:00] if you can relate to that, the, the position I found myself in was like, I don't know how to slow down.

I don't know how to. Uh, take it easy, you know? And so I had to have a break, like the thing that I am doing right now that I'm going all in on is a break. This is my entire focus is a break, you know, I'm taking off. Um, so for myself, I decided to do something because I was really feeling that burnout is like, I need something more than just like a weekend getaway.

And I had heard of this idea of a sabbatical in the academic sense of like taking a year off every seventh year. But I chose to find something in between just a play on numbers, which is, you know, seven days a week, seven years. Like what if I just took off a week, every seventh week. So I would work six weeks and then take a sabbatical week.

And, and I started doing that in 2014. And I've never, I've never looked back it's because it's been such a game changer for me to the point [00:44:00] where, like, I started to ask myself the question, like, how do I make sure my team is getting work done while I'm on my sabbatical? And then I realized, well, do I believe in this concept or not this concept of like investing in deep rest and recharging so that we do better work when we're on.

And I'm like, I do believe in it. And so I decided I'm going to pay my employees. To take off every seventh week as a sabbatical. This is your job. Your job is to take the week off and just know that like people aren't robots, we're we're humans. We like to think employees, you give them money and you get this certain output, but like we time to recharge.

And the cool thing is like, they come up with good ideas and they get reinvigorated and they come back. Can we get those seven weeks worth of work done in six weeks? Because we're more focused and energized, so it's not like we actually get less done. We get the same amount done, but we all enjoy this time off.

Now I realize not everyone has the flexibility to do that. You can't just take us seventh week sabbatical, you [00:45:00] know, especially if you have a job. And so what I recommend is doing a weekend sabbatical. So take the last weekend of every month. And, you know, just say it could be Saturday, Sunday, it could be Sunday, Monday, or a Friday, Saturday, whatever works for your schedule, but just take a couple of days and schedule an event called sabbatical.

Have it span two days, it goes all day. You set it to busy. So you don't book anything there. And you just set that time aside as space. And, and the, the thing that took me two years of sabbaticals to figure out, because I would take these sabbaticals and not feel rested and I wouldn't feel recharged. I figured out why it's, because I was treating it as free time instead of margin.

And the difference is when you look at your calendar, you know, like when you asked me if I could do this podcast interview, you know, I look at my calendar and I find a spot that doesn't have anything on it, time that I am free. And [00:46:00] I filled it up. That's what we do. We look at our calendar, we look at free time and we fill it up.

So you don't want this sabbatical, this weekend sabbatical to be seen as free time. See it as margin. No, I have a thing scheduled. It's like, if you're going to a conference, I'm going to be at this conference on this weekend, you schedule the conference and then you don't schedule anything else there.

Right. It's the same thing. And so instead of. Scheduling. Cause I would look forward in the calendar and be like, Ooh, I got a sabbatical week coming up. So someone would say, you want to do a podcast interview and be like, yeah, look at all this free time. I got I'll do that here. I'll do this there. And then I get to this week that was supposed to be restful and I'd have this list of obligations.

And I've found that it's obligations that zap your energy. It's not actually the thing you do. The thing you do is not in and of itself inherently work or play. There's nothing that is work about writing or drawing or programming. It's having to do the thing, because we've all had that time in the night or [00:47:00] the weekend where we're making our own thing.

You're writing a story. You're excited about. You're drawing a picture you're you're enthusiastic about, or you're coding an app that you've always wanted. That solves a problem for you. You're excited. It gives you energy, but if it's for a client, you have to draw this picture and you have to write this report by the deadline.

It takes energy. So the only difference. In terms of whether something gives you energy or takes it from you is whether you have to do it or you're choosing to do it. It's that obligation factor. So I came up with one rule for my sabbaticals, which is don't schedule anything. The goal being total freedom from obligation.

Now, does that mean you go into the sabbatical and all you can do is stare at a white wall? No, it means when you get to this time, this margin you've set, set aside. It, you enter into a period of pure possibility. So you can say yes to anything you want in the moment, not [00:48:00] for the future version of yourself.

And so kind of fast forwarding here, I've applied the same, uh, as to the best of my ability, the same thinking to the sabbatical year. Which is like trying to keep myself free from obligations. And so the way I've been able to do that on a, on a scale, as big as a year is by employing an idea. I stole from Warren buffet, which is this 24 hour rule.

If you try to meet with Warren buffet and you call up his secretary and you say, I'd like to meet with Warren Buffett in three weeks. You can't do it because he won't schedule things outside of a 24 hour window. So you want to meet with him in three weeks, you have to call up in 20 days and say, I'd like to meet with Warren tomorrow.

And he'll either say yes or no. And, and I thought that was so great. And so I've adopted this and it's. It's resulted in my quote, unquote, missing out on some opportunities where people aren't able to schedule within that short of a window, but it keeps [00:49:00] me freed up to where, when I say yes to this interview here, which I did within roughly a 24 hour window.

I I'm able to bring this energy that is different from when I feel like another podcast interview I have to do instead. It's like, I know I chose to do this. I wanted to do this. I get to do this. 

Mike: [00:49:17] That's super fast. Okay. Cause we were exchanging about that. I was shocked that you wanted to book it so soon outright I'll usually send a Calendly link and someone will be like book it for what a week out.

Sean: [00:49:28] But 

Mike: [00:49:28] the recency. Around the booking and being like excited and thinking about the guest is so diff it was so different that there's a quick booking and I've had quick bookings before, and it's the same thing, but it wasn't intentional. Right. It would just happened to they pick the next day. So it was like, Hey, reach out.

Yeah. Want to do it. And it's like, Oh yeah. Then here's the things I want to talk to Sean about. Or, you know, this is what I want to mention. They're all on the top of my head. It's not like, then they go away and then I'm like, Oh, I got to talk to Shawn. Shoot. There's like 10 things I wanted to talk to them about.

Yeah. I wrote them down [00:50:00] somewhere and it's like an obligation. I might have a list somewhere, but I got a reference that it's like, it's all top of mind. And I'm genuinely excited about it because I don't really talk to anyone. I'm not genuinely excited about talking about buy by rule. So that's super fascinating.

You bring that up. 

Sean: [00:50:13] I didn't even think about it from your perspective. Cause obviously that's, it's a, it's a benefit there too. I was that's that's really good. That's insightful. Cause this is totally, 

Mike: [00:50:23] I mean, it's not like you're a client. It's like, Oh, I have to talk. I'm about to sell this deal. It's like, I'm genuine.

There's already a genuine interest, but it's heightened because it's not delayed and it becomes an obligation. It's like, yeah, I definitely wanna talk to them. But I mean, there's five other things I've really need to do today that had popped up between the time when I scheduled that. And now, you know, So then it robs that actually the event of its joy, because it's not location.

So 

Sean: [00:50:46] that's interesting, two years, two years to figure it out. Cause it's like I set aside this time, that's a sabbatical for me so I can recharge. I get there. And there's these things that I scheduled that passed me, [00:51:00] thought future me would love to do. And it's like, well, I chose to do those things. So of course I should love them.

And so you're like, I guess I got to do these and you do them and you come out and you're like, why do I not feel recharged? It took me two years to figure it out. I 

Mike: [00:51:15] would just chalk that up to, I would say I do chalk that up to, Oh, I just don't know how to relax, you know, th that's the natural and, and I, I would, I very much identify with how you are.

It's like, it's like, I'm either all on. Right. And I'm not, and it's like, I I've been told, I don't know how to relax or do nothing. Right. But that's, that's then the message you give yourself, or you, you say to yourself, you know, well, I just don't know how to relax, you know? Yeah. That sort of thing. And that's, that's interesting.

Sean: [00:51:45] Yeah. So just give your, give your future self a gift, trust the process, you know, take, take what took me two years to learn and just, you know, and enjoy it. Enjoy the fact that it is going to be recharging for you. It is going to be [00:52:00] restful for you. Just trust the process though. Don't schedule anything, go into that period of time.

Whether you want to take a week, you want to take a month. You want to take just a weekend. And just go into that time with nothing scheduled, pure possibility. And you can say yes to anything that hits you in the moment or say no, because what you might, this is the most important thing I think is we don't realize how much we need rest until we give ourselves the opportunity to rest.

Because we're, we're just operating on a chronic low level, most of us in society. And so we're just pushing, pushing, pushing, you know, and trying to make it to the weekend. And okay, it's Monday, let's do this again. We're just pushing but low level, there's that kind of chronic burnout. And we don't really know how much, which we actually need rest til we give ourselves the opportunity.

So you get there to that week. You, you scheduled a month from now, it's going to be your sabbatical break. And your whole, body's just going to be like, Oh my gosh. Like, I [00:53:00] just want to, like, I just want to lay on the couch and watch a show or, you know, like, I just want to read a book or watch some videos, or like, you just want to like do nothing and it's going to feel unproductive and you'll probably feel guilty.

It's hard to get that guilt free, free time unless you schedule it. And you say, look, my job is to have no obligations. Like th that's the point here, and then you, you kind of give yourself the freedom to, to unwind. 

Mike: [00:53:28] Well, I'm even thinking about that in my own life. And it's like, you know, sometimes my wife and I are like, Oh, we don't have anything this coming weekend.

And we're like, well, let's just relax. And. Um, even if it's like a mini sabbatical with us, uh, apart from activities, you know, our family, sometimes our family would be like, Hey, we need a weekend, but we're not often good at sometimes we are of actually capping it. So what you have is you, you have a Saturday, you're like, Hey, we don't have any on a Saturday.

And sometimes we'll get up. And I love to have like an extended breakfast. Like we don't have anything to do. We're just like, we just lounge around and I can do the dishes for awhile. You know, it's [00:54:00] like that to me is really actually relaxing, but we don't say, Hey, we're going to do this for the whole day.

Instead of it's like, Oh, we got some time in the afternoon. Let's go run some errands or something, you know, it's like, so there's kind of that looming of, okay, we should snap out of this as opposed to no, this whole day. And then we'll schedule that other stuff for Sunday. But we're due Saturday is this?

Sean: [00:54:19] Yeah. It's deep. The difference between 15 minute conversations you have and being an hour in on this, this recording we're doing right now, it's, there's just a different. Level of depth that goes beneath the service that you don't get, unless you really give yourself like dedicate the whole day. You know, I hear people say like, Oh, you know, I don't really need to like take a break or a sabbatical or a day off.

Like, I've got my, my Sunday afternoon, one hour reflection time. And I review for the upcoming week. And it's like, it's just, it doesn't, you know, this, you you've taken a two week vacation before, maybe you're on the beach and it's. You couldn't just take off one weekend [00:55:00] day for 14 weekends and get the same effect.

It's that depth of like going all in and having that total focus, that, that total time off where you can actually unwind. 

Mike: [00:55:12] Yeah. And it's interesting doing like a weekend thing because you bring up like the vacation thing 

Sean: [00:55:18] and. We we're big on like, 

Mike: [00:55:20] not planning much during a vacation. So it's that thrill of, of just, Hey, we're Alondra and let's go, just find a place to eat.

You know, like, it's not like we'd identified any place, like just dry round. Like it's the whole UN there's no obligations is what makes a vacation so great. And it does take a few, it does take a few days sometimes, you know, it takes, it takes a few days to unwind and you're like, Oh, I should be doing this.

Or what are the, what's my mind still spinning on? Um, 

Sean: [00:55:46] so I think I remember early, early in, like, so I've been married about 10 years early on in marriage. Like some of our first vacations were like super planned. We have this itinerary and it was like, yes, saw the statue of Liberty, you know, and check off all these things.

[00:56:00] And now it's, you know, a decade later it's like, now we just go somewhere and like do whatever in the moment. And it just feels, it feels so much better. Yeah. 

Mike: [00:56:11] Well, Sean, thank you so much for sharing, man. 

Sean: [00:56:13] I really appreciate it. I enjoyed this. This has been great. 

Mike: [00:56:16] Yes. A very important topic. And I, you, I made a statement just a few minutes ago.

You said, I think we're all operating on, on a low-level burnout and I glad you made the distinction around the, the, the light switch because that. It makes it more serious, right? You're not just like, I'm not quite there yet. That's fine. I can get to sick. I usually I know myself, I can get to Nate and I'm good until I get to level eight and it's like, no, you're already there.

You need to get, need to get back on track, you know? Um, which I think is an important topic. And it's, it's, it's also how do you, baby-step it, which I think you outlined a plan for that, which is really, I think, beneficial. So. 

Sean: [00:56:55] Well, if, uh, if, if anyone wants more resources on that, uh, [00:57:00] sabbatical.blog, I've been writing stuff, they're working on a book called sabbatical to kind of help people.

Like it sounds so silly. It's like, just take a, take a break, take it easy, just rest. But there's so much more to it. You know, speaking as a recovering workaholic, like there is so much more to it. So I want to like, Break that down, make it easier to help people not waste years. Like I did trying to figure out how to avoid burnout and rest and being frustrated with that process.

So, um, sabbatical.blog is where I'm kind of documenting all of that to help people. 

Mike: [00:57:31] Awesome. And we'll definitely link that in the show notes and 

Sean: [00:57:34] I think it's, 

Mike: [00:57:36] you might see it that way, but it's like, I think it's deep. It's not just taking a break, you know, it's like, there's so much to unpack there that it's like, I think there's, I think it's a message that needs to be.

Broadcast from the hilltops. 

Sean: [00:57:48] So yeah, we can like add one more little thing to it. It's, it's two sides of the coin to the sabbatical idea. One is preventing burnout, which is, which is super important, but the other is [00:58:00] unlocking your best ideas, your most creative ideas when you're just pushing, pushing, going, going, you never see the forest for the trees.

You just aren't able, like I wholeheartedly believe that your very best ideas are currently locked up and inaccessible to you. I'm talking about the type of ideas that, that would make you a lot of money, the type of ideas that would, you know, uh, go towards your legacy, the things you would be remembered for, uh, that, that the type of things that would be good for your family.

Those things are locked up as you continue to push, push, push, and you don't get to unlock them until you take a step back. And so that's the other part of sabbaticals, which is like, and both are equally hard to, to explain to people until you've experienced it. It's like. Trust me, you really don't want burnout.

And it's like, yeah, well, what's the big deal. You know, I was like, I'll just bounce back. And it's like, ah, no, you won't. And I don't know how to get you to realize how serious it is and how many years you're going to lose. If [00:59:00] you, if you do burn out, that's a hard thing to sell. Similarly, it's hard to sell your, the best ideas of your lifetime and what you'll be remembered for that contribute to your legacy that are currently locked up, that you could access.

If you take the step back in the form of a break or a sabbatical, it's also hard to sell that, you know? Cause it's like, how can I imagine the best ideas that I've never had? But if you can, that's, that's the benefits of this. 

Mike: [00:59:33] I, I can definitely see that. And I, but I think I can see that how the, how impactful it is and the best ideas concept, but I can also see how that's hard for people to grasp, because I don't think there's an understanding there, but.

Um, yeah, no, I think that's a great way to end it. I think that's a great nugget because I think it's, it's untapped potential is the other side of the coin and, um, it kind of [01:00:00] another, I keep getting these thoughts, like, um, I think people know that though. I think like deep down, you know, 

Sean: [01:00:08] That, 

Mike: [01:00:09] where you're at on, on, in your burnout is actually preventing you from living up to your full potential.

You just don't want to 

Sean: [01:00:15] admit. I just realized, I think you're totally right. And also stories help. Like I think there is a subconscious part of us that knows, but then also instead of just this blind faith of like, well, I guess Sean probably wouldn't have spent the past six years paying his employees to take off.

Time for sabbaticals. If it wasn't really good, like, okay, that makes some sense. But like this sabbatical year, I ended up starting this agency that within a couple weeks was a six-figure additional arm of our business. That would have never happened was I, was I not on sabbatical and like I had the bandwidth to think about and conceptualize and, [01:01:00] and work on these ideas and, and it's, it's completely transformed the way I see my business and the way I want to operate when I come back from the sabbatical, because being on sabbatical while I've started, this new business essentially has forced me to, like I tell my team.

Everything has to run without me. You can send me a message. You can send me an email, but you have to expect that I won't reply because I'm on sabbatical. Like being on sabbatical doesn't mean I can't work on a work project. It's just that I have to, I have to be able to choose that and not have it be like, Sean, we need this from you, Sean.

We need this from you because now we're back in obligation land. Yeah, I'm back in work mode and it's, it's taking energy from me, but instead I get to work on the business instead of in it. So whenever I feel like, you know, Hey, let's come up with this new thing and work on processes and, and, you know, like, it's, it's like a fun game for me, but it ensures this is an asset because all along for, so for the past [01:02:00] 15 years, I was just, I was making jobs for myself with my logo.

And thinking that it was a business, it wasn't a business because it doesn't run without me. Yeah. So if it requires me, it's, it's a job, you know? And so being on sabbatical gave me the ideas, gave me the bandwidth to think about and come up with these things and, and force me to build it in such a way that it runs without me so that it can actually be an asset to the point where when I come back from the sabbatical year and a couple of months, Um, I basically don't want to run my business any differently from that ever.

It's like, I I've, I've learned from that, that I need to create things, build things that run without me. 

Mike: [01:02:42] Yeah. 

Sean: [01:02:43] Yeah. 

Mike: [01:02:45] Jobs with my logo. I like that phrase. Well, thanks John. Thanks for being on, man. I thank you for sharing from your heart and, um, just being honest and, and bringing a lot of value. Um, I really appreciate our conversation.

Sean: [01:02:59] Well, thanks so [01:03:00] much for having me. I had a lot of fun. This was good. 

Mike: [01:03:03] So radical.blog. I'm also at Sean West on Twitter, but we'll link all that in the show notes so people can find you. So thanks. 

Sean: [01:03:10] Thanks again, Mike. 

What is 2 Cent Dad Podcast?

Intentional fatherhood while living a life of purpose. Hosted by Mike Sudyk. www.2centdad.com