WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.719 Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:04.700 --> 00:00:08.439 In the last two or three days, I've had three conversations with 00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:10.759 clients of mine about group coaching. 00:00:11.630 --> 00:00:16.489 It's a relevant conversation for me because, over the last six months or 00:00:16.499 --> 00:00:23.599 a year, as I consistently bump up against some definition of full in 00:00:23.599 --> 00:00:29.359 my one on one practice, the question always comes to mind, well, is it time 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.799 for me to think about starting a group? 00:00:32.859 --> 00:00:35.349 And in fact, a very good friend the other day. 00:00:35.874 --> 00:00:37.304 We were talking about my practice. 00:00:38.184 --> 00:00:40.064 She runs a large community membership. 00:00:40.064 --> 00:00:44.174 And we were talking about the fact that I do sometimes have to 00:00:44.184 --> 00:00:45.944 turn away one on one prospects. 00:00:46.884 --> 00:00:48.444 By the way, I do have spots open right now. 00:00:48.444 --> 00:00:51.104 So if you've ever thought about wanting to coach with me, it's 00:00:51.154 --> 00:00:52.374 probably a good time to reach out. 00:00:52.774 --> 00:00:57.434 But anyway, there are often times in my coaching practice where I am having to 00:00:57.434 --> 00:01:00.324 turn people away because there's just not a place for them in the calendar. 00:01:01.014 --> 00:01:05.034 And I was sharing this with my friend and my friend just got this kind of 00:01:05.054 --> 00:01:10.844 confused look on her face and said, Mark, why aren't you launching a group? 00:01:11.744 --> 00:01:13.344 And so I had to sit with that and I had to think about it. 00:01:13.354 --> 00:01:15.324 Why am I not launching a group? 00:01:17.624 --> 00:01:18.734 And today I'll tell you why. 00:01:20.034 --> 00:01:21.994 I'll tell you why I'm not launching a group. 00:01:22.334 --> 00:01:28.654 But I'll also tell you why I probably will someday and why I will 00:01:28.654 --> 00:01:30.594 be excited to do it when I do it. 00:01:31.624 --> 00:01:34.404 I bring that up because I'm not anti group coaching. 00:01:35.684 --> 00:01:40.594 I just don't view it quite the same way other people seem to, or the way 00:01:40.814 --> 00:01:43.604 I think it gets talked about within the broader coaching community, 00:01:44.444 --> 00:01:47.124 my thesis for this whole set of ideas. 00:01:48.124 --> 00:01:52.904 Is that group coaching is not scaled one on one coaching. 00:01:53.534 --> 00:01:55.514 They're fundamentally different things. 00:01:56.924 --> 00:02:00.804 So if a coach transitions from one on one coaching to group coaching, 00:02:01.874 --> 00:02:05.404 or if they start to do some one on one coaching and some group coaching, 00:02:05.444 --> 00:02:08.604 it's not that they're doing the same thing in two different ways. 00:02:09.334 --> 00:02:11.954 They're doing two different things. 00:02:13.024 --> 00:02:15.825 There's overlap between the two activities, but they 00:02:15.825 --> 00:02:17.255 are different activities. 00:02:18.234 --> 00:02:19.264 So let's talk about that. 00:02:20.454 --> 00:02:24.135 Let me try to make those ideas clear so that you can. 00:02:25.540 --> 00:02:28.470 Find ways to productively disagree and take those productive 00:02:28.470 --> 00:02:30.440 disagreements into your own practice. 00:02:31.190 --> 00:02:34.369 And to the extent that you agree, you'll take that into your practice. 00:02:35.550 --> 00:02:39.280 My main reason for not launching a group coaching program is 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:40.660 because I'm thinking about. 00:02:41.290 --> 00:02:43.210 What is the client experience in that program? 00:02:43.720 --> 00:02:46.980 And when I am a client experiencing the thing that we call group 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.520 coaching, how do I feel? 00:02:50.190 --> 00:02:54.240 And for me, there are some deal breaker aspects to this experience that in order 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.490 to launch a group coaching program or not even a group coaching program, but a 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:01.710 one too many experience, because that's what we're actually talking about. 00:03:02.570 --> 00:03:09.160 One coach and many participants, I would have to find a way to resolve these. 00:03:10.570 --> 00:03:11.380 Here's the first one. 00:03:12.450 --> 00:03:13.970 One on one coaching is slower. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:15.280 Group coaching is faster. 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:23.390 If I'm the client in a one on one coaching experience, there's time for reflection. 00:03:24.190 --> 00:03:25.060 There's time for silence. 00:03:25.060 --> 00:03:26.410 There's time for consideration. 00:03:27.450 --> 00:03:31.720 You could say that the same is true of a group coaching experience, but it's 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:37.220 natural state exerts pressure against that silence and against that reflection. 00:03:38.510 --> 00:03:39.000 Why? 00:03:39.510 --> 00:03:40.490 Well, a couple of reasons. 00:03:41.070 --> 00:03:44.680 Number one, there are people physically in the same space. 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.380 Even when it's a zoom space, there are, there are people physically in the 00:03:47.380 --> 00:03:52.390 same space as me and I, as the client know that there is a person behind 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.460 me in line and that there's a person behind them in line and the clock is 00:03:56.460 --> 00:03:58.610 ticking toward the end of this session. 00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:03.140 So however much the coach tells me as the client, take your time. 00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:04.210 We're in no hurry. 00:04:05.085 --> 00:04:09.975 It's hard, maybe even impossible to believe that because I can see the 00:04:09.975 --> 00:04:15.295 faces in the little squares on zoom of the people who are most likely waiting 00:04:15.295 --> 00:04:18.065 to be quote unquote coached next. 00:04:19.235 --> 00:04:22.185 Maybe even in zoom, they have their virtual hands raised and 00:04:22.185 --> 00:04:23.625 I see all the virtual hands. 00:04:24.835 --> 00:04:31.215 So even when I'm supposedly able to pause to get silent and to reflect, I know 00:04:31.215 --> 00:04:33.005 that I've got a line of people behind me. 00:04:34.615 --> 00:04:38.325 That's what makes group coaching tend towards speed versus 00:04:38.345 --> 00:04:41.475 slowness, hurry versus patience. 00:04:42.725 --> 00:04:47.035 And there are some consequences to that natural speed and the 00:04:47.035 --> 00:04:51.165 natural pressure that exists in these group coaching settings. 00:04:52.025 --> 00:04:57.365 One is that the coaching that happens in these group coaching settings tends 00:04:57.365 --> 00:04:59.345 to be shallower rather than deeper. 00:05:00.545 --> 00:05:03.655 That's not just a function of the fact that there's a queue of people 00:05:03.655 --> 00:05:05.225 behind me waiting to be coached. 00:05:06.145 --> 00:05:09.475 It's also that I'm in a room full of maybe strangers. 00:05:09.985 --> 00:05:13.195 Now, maybe over the course of a group coaching experience, I build 00:05:13.195 --> 00:05:14.985 rapport with the people in the room. 00:05:15.985 --> 00:05:21.295 So my willingness to go deep and to self disclose increases over time, 00:05:22.195 --> 00:05:25.515 but I'm still having to consider, even at a subconscious level, I'm 00:05:25.515 --> 00:05:30.400 having to consider the fact that what I share in that setting Is shared, 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:33.930 not just with my coach, it's shared with everyone else in the room. 00:05:34.710 --> 00:05:38.260 I also have to consider that in most of these programs, the 00:05:38.260 --> 00:05:40.410 coaching is recorded and published. 00:05:41.510 --> 00:05:46.300 Now, yes, that recording exists behind a paywall and probably, and yes, most 00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:51.110 people aren't going back to review those coaching calls, but if I'm a client, 00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:56.110 in that setting, some part of me is considering the fact that other people are 00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:00.970 listening today and that other people can listen, people with whom I have no rapport 00:06:02.370 --> 00:06:03.850 potentially forever into the future. 00:06:05.340 --> 00:06:05.530 Yeah. 00:06:05.530 --> 00:06:08.770 In my observation, clients in these settings do tend to get themselves 00:06:08.770 --> 00:06:11.860 past these anxieties for the most part. 00:06:12.940 --> 00:06:16.240 But I don't think the nature of the thing allows them to get 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.010 past those anxieties completely. 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:21.540 Does that mean the interaction they're having with the coach and with the 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:24.320 group is a bad one or an unhelpful one? 00:06:24.350 --> 00:06:25.580 No, it actually doesn't. 00:06:26.250 --> 00:06:29.370 Those can be quite helpful, quite powerful experiences for people, 00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:31.790 but they're fundamentally different. 00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:35.180 Then a one on one coaching interaction where there's no 00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:36.470 one waiting in line behind me. 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:41.420 There's no concern about the recording being available to a 00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:42.870 bunch of strangers on the internet. 00:06:44.400 --> 00:06:48.640 There's no concern about judgment from other people in the room. 00:06:49.270 --> 00:06:56.280 You've heard me say before that research shows that in the therapy world, All 00:06:56.310 --> 00:06:59.940 therapeutic success is based on the rapport and the trust that exists 00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:01.360 between practitioner and client. 00:07:02.310 --> 00:07:04.650 I don't have any reason to believe it's different in the coaching world. 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:07.610 And in a group coaching setting, those that we typically see in our 00:07:07.610 --> 00:07:12.550 community, that trust has to extend to the entire group in order for the 00:07:12.550 --> 00:07:16.730 experience to be as successful as it would be with a one on one coach. 00:07:17.640 --> 00:07:21.180 Again, that rapport can be created and I've seen it be created and I've felt 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:26.010 it with other participants in a group myself, but it's still a different thing. 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.290 from a one on one coaching experience. 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:34.330 So looking at this through the client's eyes, I've got concern about the natural 00:07:34.330 --> 00:07:38.940 speed and the natural pressure and the natural uncertainty that exists 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:41.970 in a group coaching interaction. 00:07:43.170 --> 00:07:45.370 Not just uncertainty about the things I've already said, but 00:07:45.410 --> 00:07:48.230 uncertainty about how long is my time. 00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:51.570 There are people waiting behind me in line, but there's no particular 00:07:51.570 --> 00:07:53.564 structure that tells me what to do. 00:07:54.125 --> 00:07:57.295 My coaching time starts at this time and ends at that time. 00:07:58.455 --> 00:08:01.625 So somewhere in that interaction, I'll start to have thoughts that 00:08:01.625 --> 00:08:03.605 sound like I'm taking too long. 00:08:03.635 --> 00:08:05.145 I'm talking too much. 00:08:06.865 --> 00:08:08.515 People are getting annoyed with me. 00:08:10.135 --> 00:08:11.815 And all of those things might be true. 00:08:12.945 --> 00:08:16.835 And since they might be true, as the client in that scenario, I'm 00:08:16.835 --> 00:08:19.635 feeling that internal pressure building and maybe I'm rushing. 00:08:21.135 --> 00:08:24.935 And you can almost guarantee that the coach is feeling the same pressures 00:08:25.485 --> 00:08:26.945 from the coaches side of things. 00:08:26.975 --> 00:08:28.015 These interactions. 00:08:28.485 --> 00:08:32.335 Include wanting to be of service to the person you're talking to. 00:08:33.185 --> 00:08:37.765 Being aware of the fact that there's a cue behind that person trying to manage the 00:08:37.765 --> 00:08:42.595 energy in the room, wanting to make sure that everyone else in the room is getting 00:08:42.595 --> 00:08:46.895 what they want from the experience, which is mostly code for being entertained. 00:08:47.965 --> 00:08:51.085 The death of a group coaching experience is mostly boredom, more 00:08:51.085 --> 00:08:53.025 than lack of some other value. 00:08:53.670 --> 00:08:57.660 The other value you want to be there as well, but it's just boring to watch a 00:08:57.660 --> 00:09:02.280 boring coaching interaction if there's nothing much happening, which is what 00:09:02.280 --> 00:09:04.650 great one on one coaching can look like. 00:09:05.130 --> 00:09:08.100 A lot of silence, a lot of space, a lot of looping back, 00:09:08.140 --> 00:09:09.760 maybe some talking in circles. 00:09:11.060 --> 00:09:12.660 It doesn't make great media. 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:15.730 It can make for great individual transformation, but 00:09:15.730 --> 00:09:16.820 it doesn't make great media. 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:20.770 So I, as the coach, if I'm in that group coaching setting, I'm having 00:09:20.770 --> 00:09:24.430 to try to produce media as much as I'm trying to produce great,, 00:09:24.490 --> 00:09:26.390 individual coaching experiences. 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:29.740 And that pressure will also build inside of me. 00:09:31.310 --> 00:09:34.550 What it tends to do is push the interaction. 00:09:34.775 --> 00:09:36.395 Toward advice giving. 00:09:37.065 --> 00:09:40.535 So it pushes the interaction away from inquiry and toward advice. 00:09:41.785 --> 00:09:43.705 I had this experience yesterday. 00:09:43.765 --> 00:09:48.135 I was doing my office hours time with a small handful of people 00:09:48.135 --> 00:09:49.515 who showed up to my office hours. 00:09:50.025 --> 00:09:51.025 Some of you may be listening. 00:09:51.025 --> 00:09:51.895 It was great to meet with you. 00:09:51.895 --> 00:09:52.695 Lovely people. 00:09:54.515 --> 00:10:00.185 But I noticed myself through the course of that hour with a baseline 00:10:00.485 --> 00:10:06.250 anxiety, a baseline concern, um, That I'm taking too long with this person. 00:10:06.250 --> 00:10:07.580 What about the other people? 00:10:08.540 --> 00:10:09.720 Are the other people bored? 00:10:09.780 --> 00:10:11.390 Am I going to get to them all? 00:10:12.170 --> 00:10:16.150 And I heard myself going to advice giving above all else. 00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:20.410 I will say that I think the advice I gave was fine. 00:10:20.410 --> 00:10:24.090 I think it was probably good advice in many cases, based on my experience 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:28.520 and what I've observed, but it was advice giving, it wasn't inquiry. 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:32.680 So if I'm talking with a person and she's explaining her business plans to me. 00:10:33.105 --> 00:10:37.605 If we're in a one on one setting, I will take time to go to inquiry. 00:10:38.245 --> 00:10:38.935 Who are you? 00:10:38.945 --> 00:10:39.845 What are your fears? 00:10:39.845 --> 00:10:40.745 What are your concerns? 00:10:40.745 --> 00:10:42.285 What are your past experiences? 00:10:43.885 --> 00:10:45.575 How do you feel emotionally right now? 00:10:45.635 --> 00:10:47.685 Are we giving enough space to this whole thing? 00:10:48.665 --> 00:10:51.705 But in that setting, I switch to advice giving and I say, 00:10:51.715 --> 00:10:52.585 okay, here's what I think. 00:10:52.585 --> 00:10:53.485 Here's what I want you to do. 00:10:54.095 --> 00:10:55.305 I think this is going to work. 00:10:55.705 --> 00:10:56.515 And I do, by the way. 00:10:57.170 --> 00:11:03.030 It's not that the advice was bad, but good advice without the underpinning 00:11:03.260 --> 00:11:07.200 rapport, without the trust and without the understanding of who is receiving 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.290 the advice can become bad advice. 00:11:10.950 --> 00:11:16.220 But it's the nature of these compressed group interactions that pushes me 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:17.720 as the coach toward advice giving. 00:11:19.150 --> 00:11:20.850 I got to tell you, it just doesn't feel good to me. 00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.820 I feel a physical discomfort as I'm doing it. 00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:28.910 Even as I'm aware that there's some value and some benefit to the client in that 00:11:28.910 --> 00:11:31.750 interaction, it's just unsettling for me. 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.670 Because of the amount of time that I've spent in the coaching world and in my 00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:40.930 particular coaching community, I have also been an observer of these advice 00:11:40.930 --> 00:11:47.265 heavy group coaching interactions and later had the opportunity to coach The 00:11:47.265 --> 00:11:49.485 recipient of that advice one on one. 00:11:50.095 --> 00:11:52.755 So I'm watching the person receive the advice in another 00:11:52.755 --> 00:11:54.225 setting from another coach. 00:11:54.635 --> 00:11:58.355 And then I am talking to that same person later, one on one. 00:11:59.945 --> 00:12:03.535 And I'm able to say that advice was given in a hurried way. 00:12:04.245 --> 00:12:07.235 It wasn't the best advice for that person, given their circumstances, 00:12:07.275 --> 00:12:09.835 given their emotional state, given their skills, et cetera. 00:12:10.745 --> 00:12:15.915 And now I'm talking to them and I'm having the experience of trying to unpack and, 00:12:16.225 --> 00:12:23.235 and disentangle their thoughts and their desires and their plans from the fact 00:12:23.235 --> 00:12:26.745 that they bought so heavily into some advice that they received previously. 00:12:27.745 --> 00:12:31.245 So the advice might be useful, but it might be harmful. 00:12:32.045 --> 00:12:36.035 And it might be something that either takes a person off track or that 00:12:36.045 --> 00:12:41.525 their one on one coach later has to help them parse out and make useful. 00:12:43.255 --> 00:12:45.935 Meanwhile, that other coach had nothing but good intentions. 00:12:46.965 --> 00:12:51.155 They were doing the most natural thing for the environment in which they 00:12:51.155 --> 00:12:56.315 were operating, which is to hurry to , get through it, to get to the 00:12:56.315 --> 00:13:01.585 next person in line, to sound clever and insightful, to be entertaining, 00:13:02.695 --> 00:13:04.685 maybe at the expense. 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.880 Of the person who's engaging one on one in that moment. 00:13:10.900 --> 00:13:14.010 These are the reasons that as a client, it's very rare for me to sign 00:13:14.010 --> 00:13:20.160 up for a group coaching experience because I find the experience 00:13:20.180 --> 00:13:22.850 on average, not very satisfying. 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.430 Even when it's not a negative experience, it leaves me wanting. 00:13:28.550 --> 00:13:33.540 And as a coach, the reason I don't tend to sell these is that I'm just not sure 00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:35.250 people are better off signing up for them. 00:13:35.905 --> 00:13:40.375 Certainly not better off, than signing up for a one on one coach, the thought 00:13:40.375 --> 00:13:45.185 experiment that I run is this, let's imagine that I have a full one on 00:13:45.185 --> 00:13:47.965 one practice and I have a wait list. 00:13:48.925 --> 00:13:51.775 I have 50 people on the wait list or 20 people on the wait list. 00:13:53.275 --> 00:13:54.915 The question I ask myself is. 00:13:56.790 --> 00:14:01.420 Do I believe those people would be better served by getting into a 00:14:01.420 --> 00:14:03.000 group coaching experience with me? 00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:09.470 Or do I believe that they would be better served by working one on one with a 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:11.450 trusted coach that I could refer them to? 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:16.130 And let's say that dollar for dollars, same price. 00:14:17.130 --> 00:14:19.260 Do I think they should work with me in a group setting? 00:14:19.765 --> 00:14:24.295 That has all the challenges that I've outlined already, or if I have a trusted 00:14:24.295 --> 00:14:30.445 fellow coach who for the same money could coach them one on one, what do I think 00:14:30.445 --> 00:14:33.175 is in their best interest for me today? 00:14:34.195 --> 00:14:38.925 If the goal is inquiry, insight, deep exploration, introspection, 00:14:40.145 --> 00:14:44.465 if those are the goals I will tell them, I don't have room for you right 00:14:44.465 --> 00:14:48.935 now, but I trust her, I would love for you to work with her or him. 00:14:50.055 --> 00:14:52.745 Because it's the nature of the work that I believe in. 00:14:54.335 --> 00:15:00.235 And as long as I think there can be great rapport and trust between that prospective 00:15:00.235 --> 00:15:04.255 client and the coach, I'd refer them to, I'm going to make that connection. 00:15:05.475 --> 00:15:07.485 That's how strongly I feel about this today. 00:15:08.545 --> 00:15:11.675 What I want is for the client to have the experience that I 00:15:11.685 --> 00:15:13.335 think one on one coaching offers. 00:15:14.345 --> 00:15:16.785 I'm not as concerned with whether or not they have it with me. 00:15:18.675 --> 00:15:23.975 So does that mean I think there's no place for a one to many experience? 00:15:25.055 --> 00:15:27.665 No, I think there's plenty of places for it. 00:15:28.765 --> 00:15:31.105 I think that one to many experiences. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.870 Or what we typically call group coaching. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.110 I believe they are at their best when they are one of two 00:15:37.110 --> 00:15:42.710 things, when they are either a classroom or a group facilitation. 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:45.500 So let's talk about a classroom first. 00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:51.630 A classroom is a place where we have subject matter that we're studying. 00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:59.525 The whole group is studying some subject matter and there's a teacher and the Share 00:15:59.555 --> 00:16:07.235 knowledge, share experience, and ask good questions and help the group absorb and 00:16:07.235 --> 00:16:09.505 internalize and master the information. 00:16:10.825 --> 00:16:12.075 I love a classroom setting. 00:16:13.845 --> 00:16:17.035 If I thought I could make a living at it, I would be a high school teacher. 00:16:17.235 --> 00:16:18.915 That's how much I love a classroom setting. 00:16:20.135 --> 00:16:21.365 I still might do it someday. 00:16:21.375 --> 00:16:23.635 I just can't figure out how to make the finances work yet. 00:16:25.395 --> 00:16:26.805 I love a classroom. 00:16:27.395 --> 00:16:29.195 I love being a student in a good classroom. 00:16:29.785 --> 00:16:31.375 I love being a teacher in a good classroom. 00:16:32.985 --> 00:16:33.635 It's magic. 00:16:34.035 --> 00:16:37.755 The second thing is group facilitation in our world. 00:16:37.755 --> 00:16:39.135 We often call these masterminds. 00:16:41.235 --> 00:16:46.865 Ironically, what we tend to call masterminds is very often just the kind 00:16:46.865 --> 00:16:50.875 of group coaching that I've spent the last, however many minutes being skeptical 00:16:50.875 --> 00:16:55.875 about when I say mastermind, what I mean is a group of people get into a room. 00:16:55.935 --> 00:17:01.435 There is a facilitator and the facilitator does the job of drawing out 00:17:01.435 --> 00:17:07.005 the experiences and the insights and the wisdom from everyone in the room in 00:17:07.005 --> 00:17:08.445 service of everyone else in the room. 00:17:10.395 --> 00:17:11.925 It's different from teaching. 00:17:12.095 --> 00:17:15.375 The facilitator's job is not to impart specific knowledge. 00:17:16.355 --> 00:17:19.575 The facilitator's job is to draw knowledge out of the room. 00:17:20.045 --> 00:17:23.375 It's to draw questions and insights out of the room. 00:17:23.535 --> 00:17:24.525 That's facilitation. 00:17:25.195 --> 00:17:27.005 I also love facilitation. 00:17:27.365 --> 00:17:30.605 I love to be in a room where there's great facilitation happening, and I 00:17:30.605 --> 00:17:32.235 love to be the facilitator in that room. 00:17:34.245 --> 00:17:38.225 Both of these are different from the thing that we tend to call group coaching. 00:17:39.530 --> 00:17:42.220 Now, some would say, that's not quite right. 00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:47.610 I've sat in group coaching experiences and I get so much from hearing 00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:51.660 other people get coached 100%. 00:17:51.700 --> 00:17:57.389 But I think it ends up being the worst of all worlds or the 00:17:57.389 --> 00:17:59.439 most mediocre of all worlds. 00:17:59.989 --> 00:18:04.929 When a group coaching experience attempts to be all things at the same time, when 00:18:04.929 --> 00:18:09.309 it attempts to be one on one coaching as the coach engages with an individual 00:18:09.309 --> 00:18:13.569 participant, and it also attempts to be a classroom where the coach is attempting 00:18:13.569 --> 00:18:19.049 to impart knowledge, and it attempts to be a facilitation all at the same time. 00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:23.689 I'm happiest with all of these when they are separated. 00:18:24.224 --> 00:18:27.214 And done beautifully by themselves. 00:18:29.314 --> 00:18:33.534 We who call ourselves coaches can do all of these. 00:18:35.804 --> 00:18:39.954 I think we'll find it easier to deliver them well, when we do 00:18:40.004 --> 00:18:42.864 each thing on its own brilliantly, 00:18:43.994 --> 00:18:45.494 and that's what I'm excited about. 00:18:46.174 --> 00:18:49.614 I am excited about the possibility of being a facilitator. 00:18:51.179 --> 00:18:53.559 And, or a teacher in different settings 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.729 in the not to do some future, you may hear an announcement on this podcast. 00:18:59.769 --> 00:19:02.329 I don't have any plans yet, by the way, this isn't me seating something 00:19:02.639 --> 00:19:06.959 I already have in mind, but I love facilitation and I love teaching. 00:19:08.569 --> 00:19:11.559 So I hope that I come up with ideas for either or both of those things 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:16.289 in the future because they're both fun and they're both value added for 00:19:16.289 --> 00:19:20.879 both client and coach, but I don't like it when we try to cram all 00:19:20.879 --> 00:19:22.279 those things into the same setting. 00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.329 I don't think it works very well. 00:19:25.069 --> 00:19:28.899 And I haven't talked about this in this episode, but the group coaching that 00:19:28.899 --> 00:19:34.709 we're accustomed to seeing in our world is also very hard to market and sell. 00:19:35.889 --> 00:19:40.439 It creates a lot of pressure on both the person selling the experience and 00:19:40.439 --> 00:19:42.109 the person being sold the experience. 00:19:43.709 --> 00:19:48.689 And by its nature, it often puts pressure on the coach. 00:19:49.734 --> 00:19:54.624 To invite people into an experience that the coach without pressure, the coach 00:19:54.624 --> 00:19:56.274 wouldn't even want in that experience. 00:19:57.154 --> 00:20:00.404 About three years ago I sold a group experience and I made all 00:20:00.404 --> 00:20:02.134 the mistakes, all the mistakes. 00:20:03.424 --> 00:20:06.394 And one of the mistakes that I made was I tried to sell a group experience 00:20:06.394 --> 00:20:12.744 when my audience wasn't really big enough such that I could invite only 00:20:12.754 --> 00:20:16.494 people that I thought were a perfect fit into that group experience. 00:20:17.999 --> 00:20:19.839 So I ended up with people who weren't a perfect fit. 00:20:19.959 --> 00:20:21.389 And in fact, they were a terrible fit. 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:23.639 Enough time has passed now. 00:20:23.639 --> 00:20:25.759 And I don't think there's any chance that this person is listening. 00:20:26.179 --> 00:20:31.809 I had a client sign up a client and their spouse sign up for a group experience. 00:20:34.479 --> 00:20:39.749 The husband would come to the zoom calls and he would sort of participate. 00:20:40.489 --> 00:20:42.829 And the wife was off somewhere in the background. 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:44.059 I think laying on a bed. 00:20:45.499 --> 00:20:47.139 She would not come on camera. 00:20:47.149 --> 00:20:51.579 She, she announced that she would not come on camera, but she wasn't going 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:53.459 to be a silent lurking participant. 00:20:53.689 --> 00:21:01.209 She was going to yell from across the room, many, many opinions of varying 00:21:01.219 --> 00:21:05.749 relevance, whose fault is it that that person's in the, in the group. 00:21:05.929 --> 00:21:06.579 It's my fault. 00:21:07.889 --> 00:21:08.829 I won't repeat that. 00:21:09.889 --> 00:21:11.649 They asked for and received a refund. 00:21:11.989 --> 00:21:12.619 Thank goodness. 00:21:14.929 --> 00:21:17.339 There was another person in that same group experience where from 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:21.229 the minute this person showed up on the call, there was this rage, 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:23.379 this negativity, this skepticism. 00:21:24.099 --> 00:21:26.079 And I found myself chasing these people. 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:26.789 Oh, let's see. 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.679 How do I make this better? 00:21:27.679 --> 00:21:31.099 I found myself giving one on one free one on ones. 00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:33.119 Oh, I've got to make sure they get the value out of this. 00:21:33.699 --> 00:21:36.249 Until at some point, a few weeks into the experience, I realized 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.769 what are you doing to yourself? 00:21:38.459 --> 00:21:39.929 Give them their money back. 00:21:40.939 --> 00:21:45.919 I ended up refunding, I think a little over one third of the 00:21:45.919 --> 00:21:47.699 participants, in that whole thing. 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.349 And I didn't do an amazing job, by the way. 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.109 And the whole thing, it was just sort of, meh, it just wasn't very great. 00:21:55.739 --> 00:21:59.269 I did come out of that having built some great relationships and there 00:21:59.269 --> 00:22:03.149 were a handful of participants who at the end of the experience, thanked 00:22:03.149 --> 00:22:04.719 me profoundly for the experience. 00:22:05.264 --> 00:22:05.504 Okay. 00:22:05.504 --> 00:22:06.444 That feels great, 00:22:07.414 --> 00:22:10.154 I give them a lot of credit for the fact that that was a great experience for them. 00:22:11.534 --> 00:22:15.344 But because I approached this whole thing from the pressures that these 00:22:15.354 --> 00:22:19.524 group coaching experiences create, both in the sales and marketing side 00:22:19.534 --> 00:22:24.464 and in the delivery side, I ended up creating a ton of stress for myself, 00:22:25.174 --> 00:22:29.264 a lot of discomfort for a handful of participants and a bunch of refunds. 00:22:32.054 --> 00:22:33.344 You don't have to do a bunch of refunds. 00:22:33.374 --> 00:22:35.964 You can, you can avoid the mistakes that I made. 00:22:38.524 --> 00:22:39.104 But. 00:22:39.669 --> 00:22:43.759 As you go into it, when you decide you're going to transition 00:22:43.849 --> 00:22:47.069 from one on one to groups, and I put all of that in air quotes, 00:22:48.419 --> 00:22:53.229 just experiment with my idea that we're talking about fundamentally 00:22:53.239 --> 00:23:01.079 different activities that have different ways of being successful, different 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:02.659 ways of being a rich experience. 00:23:03.919 --> 00:23:05.339 You don't have to repeat my mistakes. 00:23:05.369 --> 00:23:06.559 You can sell group coaching. 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.949 You can sell the kind of group coaching that I've been a little bit 00:23:08.949 --> 00:23:12.919 critical of and I think that your clients, many of them will love it. 00:23:13.224 --> 00:23:14.064 They'll rave about it. 00:23:14.074 --> 00:23:15.314 They'll maybe sign up again. 00:23:16.834 --> 00:23:19.464 I'm never right in a black and white way anymore. 00:23:19.904 --> 00:23:25.374 I've let go of the idea that I am black and white, correct about any given topic. 00:23:25.444 --> 00:23:26.784 All of these things have nuance. 00:23:26.864 --> 00:23:31.574 All of them exist on a continuum, but I think you will thank yourself 00:23:32.024 --> 00:23:37.294 if you go into the possibility of selling group coaching or buying group 00:23:37.294 --> 00:23:41.499 coaching With your eyes wide open about what it is and what it isn't, 00:23:41.939 --> 00:23:47.679 what it can be and can't be, and maybe what its best format actually is. 00:23:49.929 --> 00:23:54.689 I think all of us are in a position to be great coaches, and great facilitators, 00:23:55.099 --> 00:24:00.609 and great teachers, but I am skeptical about whether all of those things 00:24:00.609 --> 00:24:04.369 can happen in the same space at the same time with a bunch of people. 00:24:05.809 --> 00:24:06.769 And I'll talk to you next time.