WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:11.660
Silvercore Podcast.

00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:15.140
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.690
hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

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people in businesses that
comprise the community.

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If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.960
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:29.300
you can learn more about
courses, services, and

00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:31.460
products that we offer
as well as how you can

00:00:31.460 --> 00:00:34.099
join The Silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million

00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:36.550
in North America wide
liability insurance, to

00:00:36.550 --> 00:00:38.810
ensure you are properly
covered during your

00:00:38.810 --> 00:00:39.680
outdoor adventures.

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This episode, The Wild
Sheep Society of British

00:00:45.620 --> 00:00:48.260
Columbia has taken it
upon themselves to step

00:00:48.260 --> 00:00:50.870
up and be the change that
they want to see when

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it comes to protecting
hunting rights in BC.

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They are a small
nonprofit organization

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that it's carrying
a heavy load.

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And this episode is
designed to help them get

00:01:01.135 --> 00:01:04.224
their message out as well
as to involve you, the

00:01:04.224 --> 00:01:06.925
listener in an effort to
crowd source solutions

00:01:06.925 --> 00:01:07.884
as we move forward.

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A quick reminder to
check out the over $6,000

00:01:12.745 --> 00:01:14.875
firefighter training
package at the Training

00:01:14.875 --> 00:01:16.835
Division in Texas,
that The Silvercore

00:01:16.854 --> 00:01:17.965
Club is giving away.

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Check out our
website for details.

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We're live.

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Today I'm speaking with
Steve Hamilton and Greg

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Rensmaag of The Wild
Sheep Society of BC,

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as well as The Talk
is Sheep Podcast about

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predator hunting and the
social license to hunt.

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Gentlemen, welcome to
The Silvercore Podcast.

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Thanks for having us.

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So why don't you to
provide a little bit of

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background on this whole
social license to hunt.

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This is a new
thing for me.

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I been doing
some research.

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I'm learning about social
license to operate and

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what all of that entails.

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How did this come about?

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Do you want to take
this one, Greg to that?

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Sure.

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Well, basically social
license is exactly

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what it sounds like.

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What is socially
acceptable in our times?

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Uh, as we, as we've
seen, there is a lot

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of emotionally charged,
uh, imagery out there,

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whether or not it's
regards to hunting,

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fishing, or just
anything in general.

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We've all seen those
commercials out there on

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Christmas, where they've
got the polar bears

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and they're coming into
the, the, the have a

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Coca-Cola with the family
and you're seeing the

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Sharman bears and they're
advertising toilet paper.

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So they're essentially.

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Putting the cute and
cuddly on what is a

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wild animal and their
argument around that is

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that, uh, the, these,
these, these animals are

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sent to you at beings.

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They have families and
they're, they're trying

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to essentially demonize
what is it, legal

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and ethical practice
managed by science.

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And that social license
means we need the voting

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support to, to, to
continue what we do.

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And that's what they're
going after right now.

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Got it.

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So thinking about
social license, and I

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think I've told this
story before in The

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Silvercore Podcast, but
I can remember a number

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of years ago and the
corporation of Delta at

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the time before it became
a city of Delta went

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and decided they did not
want any other firearms

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businesses in, in Delta.

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And so they had a big
meeting at the town hall

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and I came in, armed
with all my facts and

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all my stack of papers.

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And I started, they
gave me a forum.

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I started talking and
about, I don't know,

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five minutes into it.

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One of the individuals
stands up, says, Travis,

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hold on a second.

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Do you have much
more of this?

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Like I do.

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Why he said, well,
let me tell ya.

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I, 100% agree
with everything.

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You're saying all
the facts that

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you're spitting out.

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I agree with 100%,
but here's the thing.

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If we think that our
constituents want us to

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ban firearms businesses
from Delta, then we

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have to take a look
at banning firearms

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businesses from Delta.

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And I was flabbergasted.

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I think it was in my,
I don't know it was,

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uh, late twenties, mid,
mid to late twenties.

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And I never had that
level of honesty from

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a political type.

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And I had no
rebuttal to that.

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I had none of the
stats, none of the

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numbers made any sense.

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It was.

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Do we feel that
people may want us

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to ban the firearms
businesses in Delta?

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And it sounds like
the exact same thing

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that's happening here.

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That's exactly
what it is.

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And, uh, what, what
people have now

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realized is that when a
politician is elected,

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they're essentially
their employee, right?

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So the voters can
dictate whether or

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not they hire or fire.

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So they do listen to
the social license.

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They do listen to the
push and they have acted

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on it before, which
I imagine we'll get

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into a bit later with
the grizzly bear hunt.

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That's right.

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Yeah, well, we can,
we can talk right now.

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Sure.

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The, the grizzly
bear hunt, they

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put a moratorium on
hunting, grizzly bears

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in British Columbia.

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They said ban can't hunt
grizzly bears in British

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Columbia, but if I'm
not mistaken, wasn't it

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based on something that
happened in Alaska, some

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sort of social media
outcry that happened

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in Alaska, my right on.

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There was a, uh, a poor
taste video that was out

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there of, uh, a bear not
having the, the quickest.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Greg and I admin a couple
of, uh, hunting websites.

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And as soon as that
got posted, we both

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messaged each other and
went, Oh, here we go.

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It, uh, it, it
did us no favors.

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And, uh, yeah, it
w this, it, it was

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used to further in
emotional agenda for

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a scientific argument.

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Um, and what it all boils
down to is that social

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license as hunters, uh,
we, we strive to be the.

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That the quickest,
most, most ethical

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kill for our, our,
our, uh, quarry.

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And when we see something
like that, we know, well,

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number one, it's what
the hell are you doing?

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Posting that on social
media and two it's.

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Oh, damn.

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This is going to be used
to further an agenda.

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So when, when they
did close the grizzly

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bear hunt, it was on,
it was on, uh, well,

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I'll be straight lies.

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Uh, they originally put
out as their platform

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that they were going
to ban the trophy hunt

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only, and they put it
out to public input and

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said, what that trophy
hunt looks like is a meat

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retention, which every
hunter I ever talked

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to was on board with to
put it on par with black

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bears and remove the hide
in the head and which is

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on part with black bears.

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So, uh, vote,
vote goes down.

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They get in a.

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The legal hunt for the
Leh closes November 30th

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and all of a sudden,
December 17th, uh,

00:07:12.585 --> 00:07:16.625
2017, just before the
legislature, legislature

00:07:16.645 --> 00:07:19.994
sat for Christmas, they
went, the hunters closed.

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So they yanked it
out completely on us.

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And that's what we're
concerned about here

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with the, uh, ActNow
campaign is because

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they've, they've got an
inch and they're going

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to go for the full mile.

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So could you fill me in
on the ActNow Campaign?

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You want to
take this Greg?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely.

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So just right now,
there's organized efforts

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by multiple groups to
try to stop our privilege

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to hunt the large
carnivores and BC and

00:07:47.765 --> 00:07:51.424
her, uh, specifically
named are wolves, cougars

00:07:51.424 --> 00:07:54.575
and black bears, uh,
mountain sheep, and elk

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have also been listed
as trophy animals.

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Is that kinda, that's how
the grizzly bear hunt.

00:07:59.614 --> 00:08:02.434
So that that's how
the grizzly bear band

00:08:02.434 --> 00:08:04.385
started was listing
it as a trophy hunt.

00:08:04.414 --> 00:08:07.995
So that puts all of
them in jeopardy.

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Um, we're just, we're
looking for the hunting

00:08:10.245 --> 00:08:13.485
community to kind of come
together and stand up for

00:08:13.485 --> 00:08:15.675
science-based wildlife
management with us.

00:08:16.785 --> 00:08:17.735
So, yeah.

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And it's, as Greg said,
it's about science-based

00:08:20.525 --> 00:08:24.125
management, no hunter
out there, uh, or

00:08:24.125 --> 00:08:26.375
conservationists wants
to see extirpation

00:08:26.375 --> 00:08:28.205
or extinction of
a species at all.

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If science dictated
that a hunt needed to be

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closed due to numbers,
we'd be going hell yeah,

00:08:34.145 --> 00:08:38.255
we backed that 100% and
a former minister of

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FLNRO when the hunt was
closed for the grizzly,

00:08:41.135 --> 00:08:44.555
uh, Doug Donaldson said
it wasn't about numbers.

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It wasn't about science.

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And he admitted that
it was populism and

00:08:48.995 --> 00:08:52.025
the vote saying that
is what was closing it.

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And that's what we're
up against again.

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Uh, It's we, we owe
it to wildlife to

00:08:58.050 --> 00:08:59.160
manage it properly.

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And where the disconnect
a lot of people seem

00:09:01.620 --> 00:09:04.470
to get, unfortunately
is they say, let

00:09:04.470 --> 00:09:06.120
nature balance itself.

00:09:06.630 --> 00:09:08.400
And they, they forget.

00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:09.990
And they remove
themselves from being

00:09:09.990 --> 00:09:10.920
a part of nature.

00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:13.170
We have an impact as
human beings, you live

00:09:13.170 --> 00:09:15.390
in a house, you drive
a vehicle, you'll walk

00:09:15.390 --> 00:09:17.760
on a road, you ride
a bicycle, no matter

00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:21.120
what, you're having
an impact on nature.

00:09:21.630 --> 00:09:25.230
And we, we need to,
to manage accordingly.

00:09:25.350 --> 00:09:27.420
And that's what
ActNow is about.

00:09:28.050 --> 00:09:29.220
It's not just
about hunting.

00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:30.690
It's about
seeing wildlife

00:09:30.690 --> 00:09:32.040
managed properly.

00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:36.530
I was speaking with
Shane Mahoney recently,

00:09:36.530 --> 00:09:38.360
and he's say, so you
know who Shane is?

00:09:38.510 --> 00:09:40.760
I think he was a keynote
speaker at one of your

00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:42.200
events a couple of
years ago, actually.

00:09:43.310 --> 00:09:47.210
And he says, you know,
people will ask me.

00:09:47.954 --> 00:09:50.775
How can you have these
feelings and be a hunter?

00:09:50.775 --> 00:09:52.604
How can you care for
the wildlife like

00:09:52.604 --> 00:09:53.745
this and be a hunter?

00:09:53.745 --> 00:09:56.175
And he says, it's not
a question of there

00:09:56.175 --> 00:09:58.094
being a different set
of rules for me as there

00:09:58.094 --> 00:09:59.204
is for the wildlife.

00:09:59.474 --> 00:10:02.415
That's the reality is,
is I am one of them.

00:10:02.594 --> 00:10:03.015
That's right.

00:10:03.824 --> 00:10:09.525
And the idea of being of
us humans being socially

00:10:09.525 --> 00:10:13.214
removed from this whole,
uh, from wildlife in

00:10:13.214 --> 00:10:18.045
nature, I guess it's
a nice altruistic

00:10:18.074 --> 00:10:20.655
thought, but it's not
in line with reality.

00:10:20.974 --> 00:10:22.265
And that's what
it's about.

00:10:23.015 --> 00:10:23.314
Right.

00:10:23.545 --> 00:10:24.635
That's where
people forget that.

00:10:25.505 --> 00:10:30.635
So you guys have a,
it's not a petition.

00:10:30.964 --> 00:10:33.964
No, but, but
it's a, a form.

00:10:33.964 --> 00:10:34.745
I filled this out.

00:10:34.745 --> 00:10:35.615
What would you
guys call it?

00:10:37.405 --> 00:10:38.824
Yeah, an organized
letter campaign.

00:10:39.245 --> 00:10:39.635
Okay.

00:10:40.845 --> 00:10:42.825
And this organized letter
campaign can be found

00:10:42.825 --> 00:10:43.535
on your own website.

00:10:43.745 --> 00:10:44.315
That's right.

00:10:44.345 --> 00:10:48.935
Uh, uh,
www.wildsheepsociety.com

00:10:48.965 --> 00:10:52.175
forward slash ActNow
we've typed that

00:10:52.175 --> 00:10:53.045
out so many times.

00:10:53.055 --> 00:10:56.585
It's probably ingrained
in my subconscious

00:10:56.975 --> 00:10:59.135
and basically
it's, it's 15 to 20

00:10:59.135 --> 00:11:00.215
seconds of your time.

00:11:00.775 --> 00:11:03.875
You click enter
and the website

00:11:03.995 --> 00:11:04.985
populates for you.

00:11:04.985 --> 00:11:06.545
You've got to enter
your name, first

00:11:06.545 --> 00:11:08.465
name, last name, and
your email address

00:11:08.885 --> 00:11:09.935
and email address.

00:11:09.965 --> 00:11:12.005
Isn't for us, it's
for the elected

00:11:12.005 --> 00:11:13.565
official to be able
to respond to you.

00:11:13.565 --> 00:11:14.975
We've had a couple of
people say that they're

00:11:14.975 --> 00:11:17.255
concerned about getting
spam emails from us,

00:11:17.525 --> 00:11:18.485
and that's not the case.

00:11:18.935 --> 00:11:22.055
So your first name,
last name, uh,

00:11:22.085 --> 00:11:23.525
your email address.

00:11:23.525 --> 00:11:25.865
So the elected official
can contact you.

00:11:25.865 --> 00:11:27.875
And then there's a
dropdown where you

00:11:27.875 --> 00:11:31.055
can put in the email
address of your MLA.

00:11:31.505 --> 00:11:34.055
So no matter who it is,
you can put it in there.

00:11:34.814 --> 00:11:36.704
And the cool thing
is we've made it.

00:11:36.704 --> 00:11:40.334
So anybody who stands
with us that doesn't

00:11:40.334 --> 00:11:42.105
necessarily live
in British Columbia

00:11:42.555 --> 00:11:43.755
can have a stance.

00:11:43.905 --> 00:11:46.064
There's a not applicable
email address.

00:11:46.365 --> 00:11:49.814
So these emails will
still go to a premier

00:11:49.814 --> 00:11:53.805
Horgan, uh, minister
of FLNRO, and a couple

00:11:53.805 --> 00:11:57.045
others saying we stand
with a science-based

00:11:57.045 --> 00:11:59.535
wildlife management
and that, and that's

00:11:59.535 --> 00:12:01.725
the key there because
it's, as I said, it's

00:12:01.725 --> 00:12:03.015
not just about hunting.

00:12:03.015 --> 00:12:05.204
It's about anybody
who stands with sound

00:12:05.204 --> 00:12:07.214
wildlife management,
and wants to see

00:12:07.214 --> 00:12:08.415
wildlife and perpetuity.

00:12:08.415 --> 00:12:11.925
So whether or not you
are a, a tourist that

00:12:11.925 --> 00:12:14.355
comes up from the United
States and just love

00:12:14.355 --> 00:12:18.525
to see a moose on the
landscape, or if you're

00:12:18.525 --> 00:12:21.225
a wildlife photographer
who enjoys seeing wild

00:12:21.225 --> 00:12:23.954
sheep throughout spences
bridge area, you can have

00:12:23.954 --> 00:12:25.214
a stand in this as well.

00:12:25.605 --> 00:12:29.265
And we need anybody who,
uh, who, who wants to see

00:12:29.265 --> 00:12:31.095
it in perpetuity to sign.

00:12:32.265 --> 00:12:36.765
So right now, the big hue
and cry is around wolves.

00:12:36.824 --> 00:12:39.704
If I'm not mistaken,
PR predominantly

00:12:39.704 --> 00:12:43.515
about PR predator
hunting, but wolves.

00:12:43.775 --> 00:12:44.555
That's correct.

00:12:44.584 --> 00:12:48.094
It's uh, it's the one
that people can grab

00:12:48.094 --> 00:12:51.875
onto easily because,
uh, that they look like

00:12:51.875 --> 00:12:52.805
your pet dog, right?

00:12:52.805 --> 00:12:56.525
They're the same family,
but you hear about it

00:12:56.525 --> 00:12:57.334
all the time, right?

00:12:57.994 --> 00:12:59.675
They're they're
not is cute.

00:12:59.675 --> 00:13:02.224
And cuddly is we'd
love them to believe.

00:13:02.255 --> 00:13:02.614
Right?

00:13:02.944 --> 00:13:06.994
Do I've seen dozens of
wolves on the landscape

00:13:06.994 --> 00:13:07.984
and they're one of
the most beautiful

00:13:07.984 --> 00:13:09.244
animals out there.

00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:12.060
And completely love
and respect them.

00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:15.750
They are the majestic
beings that they're

00:13:15.750 --> 00:13:18.120
portrayed to be, but
I'm pretty sure anybody

00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:20.760
out there that, uh,
knows the reality, like

00:13:20.790 --> 00:13:22.620
Greg will back up on
this, but what makes

00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.950
a wolf more important
or more beautiful on

00:13:25.950 --> 00:13:27.780
the landscape than say
a caribou that we're

00:13:27.780 --> 00:13:31.440
watching go extinct in
certain population units

00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.690
because of a predation.

00:13:33.930 --> 00:13:37.770
So it's, they've, they've
escalated wolves up

00:13:37.770 --> 00:13:39.690
here because of the
cute and cuddly factor

00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:40.620
where I'm guessing.

00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:42.630
And because it's a,
it's a, it's something

00:13:42.660 --> 00:13:43.680
easy to grab a hold of.

00:13:44.390 --> 00:13:44.750
Sure.

00:13:45.050 --> 00:13:46.460
You don't see the
save the spiders

00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:47.210
campaign, right?

00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:47.840
Oh no.

00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.850
My wife would kill me
if I ever backed out.

00:13:53.750 --> 00:13:54.500
Exactly.

00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:55.820
So.

00:13:57.450 --> 00:14:02.100
I understand that
this letter writing

00:14:02.290 --> 00:14:03.840
you've guys have
made it so easy.

00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:05.340
Just a couple of
minutes, they put their

00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.960
information in and
we'll put links on our

00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.670
website and we'll put
links up on the YouTube

00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:12.300
channel and through
social media, what's

00:14:12.300 --> 00:14:13.410
the traction been like?

00:14:14.450 --> 00:14:17.090
I got, uh, as a 1:00
PM today we're at,

00:14:17.810 --> 00:14:22.670
uh, 9,492 letters or
people that signed up,

00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:28.880
which equates to 47,460
letters that have been

00:14:28.880 --> 00:14:30.770
sent to the different
levels of government.

00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:31.670
Okay.

00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:35.420
And that's 9,000 out
of 115,000 hunters.

00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:36.260
Yeah.

00:14:36.830 --> 00:14:39.500
Pretty, pretty dismal
since we started this.

00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:39.710
What?

00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:41.090
February 25th at launch.

00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:41.360
Yeah.

00:14:41.630 --> 00:14:41.960
Yeah.

00:14:42.290 --> 00:14:45.140
And one of the most
concerning things I

00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:48.620
guess, is that I know
I have, and Greg has,

00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:49.520
and a few others have.

00:14:49.905 --> 00:14:52.515
Uh, faced pushback by
the hunting community

00:14:52.515 --> 00:14:54.615
themselves saying that
they don't believe we're

00:14:54.615 --> 00:14:56.715
under attack and we've
got direct quotes and

00:14:56.715 --> 00:14:59.875
people saying, well,
we should have to get

00:14:59.895 --> 00:15:02.715
a trapping licenses
to, to hunt predators,

00:15:02.715 --> 00:15:05.595
or we will never ever
lose a black bear hunt.

00:15:05.775 --> 00:15:07.965
And we just go,
did you not see the

00:15:07.965 --> 00:15:08.835
grizzly bear hunt?

00:15:08.895 --> 00:15:10.695
They've got the inch,
they're gonna take

00:15:10.695 --> 00:15:12.465
the mile and they're
going to chip away.

00:15:12.945 --> 00:15:15.075
They're absolutely going
to chip away because

00:15:15.075 --> 00:15:18.645
on some of these pages,
I've seen quotes from

00:15:18.675 --> 00:15:22.575
anti, uh, organizations
and their members say,

00:15:22.815 --> 00:15:28.080
uh, nobody will hike for
14 days to get a goat

00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.840
and bring out all 60,
70, 80 pounds of meat.

00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:33.390
So you know where
they're going with that?

00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.120
Goats, goats, and sheep,
because they're trophy.

00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:36.480
Right.

00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.210
And I could, I could
show them a freezer

00:15:39.210 --> 00:15:43.740
full of bear and
deer and you name it.

00:15:43.830 --> 00:15:46.740
And they're still
going to look for holes

00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:47.670
to punch in there.

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.810
And it's, as you said,
hunters love wildlife.

00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.270
We do not want to
see it go extinct

00:15:54.270 --> 00:15:56.820
or, or extirpated in
any population unit.

00:15:57.180 --> 00:15:59.490
And this is about so much
more than, than hunting.

00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:06.890
So is that, do you have
a multi-pronged approach,

00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:12.470
to a rebuttal, to the,
uh, attack against see

00:16:12.490 --> 00:16:13.370
the predator hunting?

00:16:13.370 --> 00:16:15.680
Or is this a
singular prong?

00:16:16.890 --> 00:16:18.510
We're in phase
two right now.

00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.939
Uh, the idea is to,
uh, in June, we're

00:16:23.939 --> 00:16:26.459
going to take these
physical letters and

00:16:26.459 --> 00:16:30.000
present them to elected
officials in Victoria.

00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.130
How that's going to look
with COVID restrictions.

00:16:32.130 --> 00:16:34.500
We're not sure, but the
idea is to take every

00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:37.319
single letter, print it
off and go, hopefully on

00:16:37.319 --> 00:16:39.630
the back of a forklift
and go, this is how

00:16:39.630 --> 00:16:43.770
many people stood up to
say it's time to listen

00:16:43.770 --> 00:16:45.689
to the scientists.

00:16:46.530 --> 00:16:50.535
So, um, Yeah, we do
have a multistage,

00:16:50.564 --> 00:16:51.285
a multi-pronged.

00:16:51.295 --> 00:16:53.714
We started with the
online campaign just

00:16:53.714 --> 00:16:56.475
to kind of get the
ball rolling out there.

00:16:56.564 --> 00:17:00.735
And then we've now got
ads on a Wild TV and

00:17:00.735 --> 00:17:03.405
Sportsman Channel to get
another market there.

00:17:03.975 --> 00:17:06.585
Uh, we've got a couple
other approaches where

00:17:06.585 --> 00:17:10.815
we've got them into a
physical letters into

00:17:10.845 --> 00:17:12.795
mom and pop gun stores.

00:17:13.125 --> 00:17:15.585
And we're looking at
other ways to reach

00:17:15.585 --> 00:17:18.615
people that are off of
social media and, uh,

00:17:18.885 --> 00:17:20.295
put, put letters in front
of them that they can

00:17:20.295 --> 00:17:21.675
actually sign themselves.

00:17:22.214 --> 00:17:23.865
And as you said, we're
in phase two, we have

00:17:23.865 --> 00:17:25.994
a phase three that
we're working on and,

00:17:25.994 --> 00:17:28.625
uh, yeah, we're, we're
going continue to, to

00:17:28.665 --> 00:17:31.754
listen to feedback from,
uh, concerned hunters,

00:17:31.754 --> 00:17:35.055
anglers sport shooters,
uh, than anybody who's

00:17:35.055 --> 00:17:37.065
got a vested interest in
seeing wildlife on the

00:17:37.065 --> 00:17:40.005
landscape for how they
think, uh, We could, uh,

00:17:40.185 --> 00:17:42.075
potentially approach,
uh, other people.

00:17:42.855 --> 00:17:42.915
Yeah.

00:17:42.965 --> 00:17:46.925
So when I getting ready
to do this podcast,

00:17:46.955 --> 00:17:48.845
I've actually done a
fair bit of thinking

00:17:48.875 --> 00:17:52.655
on the problem and I
don't have a solution,

00:17:52.685 --> 00:17:54.365
but I thought it would
be an interesting

00:17:54.365 --> 00:17:58.145
endeavor anyways,
to discuss different

00:17:58.475 --> 00:18:00.995
options and perhaps
crowd source through

00:18:00.995 --> 00:18:02.105
the different listeners.

00:18:02.255 --> 00:18:04.985
And they can say, Hey,
you've got a point

00:18:04.985 --> 00:18:06.875
or you're totally off
base, but maybe think

00:18:06.875 --> 00:18:08.015
about this over here.

00:18:08.795 --> 00:18:11.765
And in thinking about it,
it seemed to me that the

00:18:11.765 --> 00:18:13.715
best approach would be
to come up with something

00:18:13.715 --> 00:18:18.155
that wasn't secret that
was out in the open.

00:18:18.155 --> 00:18:20.045
And it's easy for
everybody to kind of

00:18:20.045 --> 00:18:21.905
get behind because
I agree with you.

00:18:21.905 --> 00:18:27.635
I have seen the creep,
the creeping legislation.

00:18:27.665 --> 00:18:29.765
I've seen the creep
in anything that's

00:18:29.765 --> 00:18:34.475
considered to be, um,
socially reprehensible.

00:18:34.715 --> 00:18:35.125
That's right.

00:18:35.165 --> 00:18:37.115
I come from the
firearms community.

00:18:37.514 --> 00:18:40.935
And we've seen a few
generations of socially

00:18:40.935 --> 00:18:43.004
engineered people come
through to equate the

00:18:43.004 --> 00:18:45.225
firearm with being evil.

00:18:45.615 --> 00:18:48.195
There's only see a
campaign and say ban

00:18:48.195 --> 00:18:51.195
Mercedes-Benz because
they're getting all

00:18:51.195 --> 00:18:52.544
these, these people
are getting behind the

00:18:52.544 --> 00:18:54.735
wheel and, and hurting
people when they've

00:18:54.735 --> 00:18:55.725
had a few drinks.

00:18:55.754 --> 00:18:55.995
Yeah.

00:18:56.115 --> 00:18:59.024
You, you don't see a
vehicular manslaughter.

00:18:59.054 --> 00:19:01.575
They don't turn around
and say banned cube vans

00:19:01.905 --> 00:19:06.235
because it, the inanimate
object doesn't have the

00:19:06.435 --> 00:19:11.715
social stigma that has
been put on to firearms

00:19:12.225 --> 00:19:15.554
in the, in the, uh, what
you guys are dealing

00:19:15.554 --> 00:19:18.675
with right now, as I
look at it, it looks like

00:19:18.675 --> 00:19:19.845
there is an individual.

00:19:20.205 --> 00:19:23.985
Chris wrote a
paper, was it 2018?

00:19:24.495 --> 00:19:29.295
Yeah, it was a 2018
just after, yeah.

00:19:29.295 --> 00:19:31.335
After the grizzly bear
hunt, uh, that all

00:19:31.335 --> 00:19:34.615
this really started
to gain traction.

00:19:35.155 --> 00:19:35.345
Okay.

00:19:35.705 --> 00:19:37.865
But that paper really
didn't see any traction

00:19:37.865 --> 00:19:38.705
in, Oh, just recently.

00:19:38.915 --> 00:19:39.395
That's right.

00:19:39.515 --> 00:19:39.755
Yeah.

00:19:39.755 --> 00:19:41.765
It's called social
large carnivores and the

00:19:41.765 --> 00:19:42.905
social license to hunt.

00:19:43.415 --> 00:19:46.445
It ended up on a,
uh, a site and it

00:19:46.445 --> 00:19:49.595
was sent to me and I
went Whoa, and had a

00:19:49.595 --> 00:19:50.885
real good look at it.

00:19:50.885 --> 00:19:52.295
And there were some
trigger words in there

00:19:52.775 --> 00:19:54.965
and, uh, I'll be the
first one to say it.

00:19:54.965 --> 00:19:57.605
He is very intelligent
and very good

00:19:57.605 --> 00:19:58.355
at what he does.

00:19:58.385 --> 00:20:00.905
He's got a great
crowd of people behind

00:20:00.905 --> 00:20:02.015
him back in him.

00:20:02.435 --> 00:20:04.595
Uh, you got Kyle Artelle,
Paul Paquete and a

00:20:04.595 --> 00:20:07.024
bunch of the other big
wigs that they've got

00:20:07.024 --> 00:20:08.970
some chops with them.

00:20:09.750 --> 00:20:12.330
And, but the buzzwords
I was noticing in there

00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:15.210
were, were not just the
wolfs and black bears

00:20:15.210 --> 00:20:17.640
that they target and
cougars, but they've

00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:22.680
also thrown in there
in veiled sort of hints

00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:26.580
that big horn sheep and
elk have trophy value.

00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:30.270
So as we said that death
by a thousand cuts,

00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:34.200
well, if they, if they've
named five animals and

00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.860
we give them one, are
we gonna go that, it,

00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.720
is their argument going
to be okay, well, if you

00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.460
give us wolves, we'll
leave the others alone.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.950
Absolutely not because
it's going to end up

00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:45.270
being four more and
then it'll be, well,

00:20:45.270 --> 00:20:46.710
you give us one, we'll
leave the other three.

00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:49.550
And that's what we're
being con con uh, uh,

00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.620
proactive about because,
uh, hunters for the

00:20:52.620 --> 00:20:55.290
longest time have flown
under the radar and

00:20:55.290 --> 00:20:56.820
not been proactive.

00:20:56.850 --> 00:20:58.590
We've been
pretty reactive.

00:20:59.070 --> 00:21:01.260
Like I know when I lived
in the mainland and

00:21:01.260 --> 00:21:03.360
you, you can probably
vouch to this yourself,

00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:06.555
Travis, when you uh,
go out to your vehicle

00:21:06.555 --> 00:21:07.515
to go to the range.

00:21:07.845 --> 00:21:10.155
You, you, you look
outside to make sure

00:21:10.425 --> 00:21:13.005
is it okay to walk out
with my, uh, firearm

00:21:13.005 --> 00:21:16.365
in a case you, you
check, who's watching

00:21:16.365 --> 00:21:18.405
you, for the most part,
for the most part.

00:21:18.645 --> 00:21:20.565
Because I have heard
horror stories about

00:21:20.745 --> 00:21:24.735
people in, in, uh,
Yaletown walking to

00:21:24.735 --> 00:21:27.435
their, from their condo
to their vehicle, with

00:21:27.465 --> 00:21:30.645
their firearms, perfectly
legal and getting taken

00:21:30.645 --> 00:21:35.115
down at gunpoint because
somebody saw them, uh,

00:21:35.145 --> 00:21:36.765
doing something which
is perfectly legal that

00:21:36.765 --> 00:21:37.635
they didn't understand.

00:21:38.175 --> 00:21:42.345
So hunters grown up
hell not too long

00:21:42.345 --> 00:21:44.235
ago, 30, 35 years ago.

00:21:44.265 --> 00:21:47.655
It was commonplace to
see, uh, in the mainland,

00:21:47.685 --> 00:21:50.505
a deer strapped to
the front of a car.

00:21:50.939 --> 00:21:52.710
And you'd wave and
somebody stopped

00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:53.460
at a gas station.

00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:54.780
You'd have
pictures with it.

00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:58.560
Now you do that and you
end up on social media

00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:00.090
as a murderer, right?

00:22:00.090 --> 00:22:02.639
People want your license
plate and you get death

00:22:02.639 --> 00:22:05.490
threats and we're,
we're being proactive

00:22:05.790 --> 00:22:07.379
for, uh, for a change.

00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:07.740
Right.

00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:10.139
We're we know there's
no legislation formally

00:22:10.139 --> 00:22:12.270
right now, but we know
the wheels are turning

00:22:12.629 --> 00:22:14.070
and they've got the
ear of government.

00:22:14.070 --> 00:22:16.860
So we're trying to say,
Hey, you know what, it's

00:22:16.860 --> 00:22:18.179
our turn to speak up.

00:22:18.659 --> 00:22:21.540
So yeah, it's that the
paper came out in 2018

00:22:21.689 --> 00:22:25.590
and, uh, they've sat on
it for three years, but

00:22:25.590 --> 00:22:26.280
we know what's coming.

00:22:26.280 --> 00:22:28.230
So we're trying to try
to beat them to the

00:22:28.230 --> 00:22:32.899
punch, so to speak, you
know, how many people

00:22:32.899 --> 00:22:36.530
were really aware of
that paper or of Chris

00:22:36.530 --> 00:22:39.379
in general, prior to
this, lots of people

00:22:39.379 --> 00:22:42.860
were aware, Chris and,
uh, his organization.

00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:45.649
However, I don't
think they were aware.

00:22:47.294 --> 00:22:50.415
To the extent of
influence they've had.

00:22:51.195 --> 00:22:54.044
Uh, yeah, like I
said, there he's been

00:22:54.044 --> 00:22:54.885
around for awhile.

00:22:55.245 --> 00:22:58.605
He's a professor at
UVIC he's, uh, with his

00:22:58.605 --> 00:23:03.135
organization there and
yeah, he's, they, uh,

00:23:03.195 --> 00:23:05.445
they have some swing,
they've got some chops

00:23:05.445 --> 00:23:09.315
with them, but yeah, the
lots knew who he was,

00:23:09.345 --> 00:23:11.445
but I don't think they
understood the influence

00:23:11.445 --> 00:23:12.044
that they've had.

00:23:13.925 --> 00:23:17.585
Now, I don't know if you
know who Dan Fritter is.

00:23:17.615 --> 00:23:21.004
He's the owner of
Calibre Magazine and

00:23:21.485 --> 00:23:25.235
was talking with him
about some issues

00:23:25.235 --> 00:23:26.495
on the firearm side.

00:23:26.554 --> 00:23:28.445
And he says, I'm
not even going to

00:23:28.445 --> 00:23:29.705
bother responding.

00:23:30.125 --> 00:23:31.625
Everyone says, Dan,
how come, how come

00:23:31.625 --> 00:23:32.825
you don't write about
it in your magazine?

00:23:32.825 --> 00:23:34.655
Why don't you put this
up on, on Facebook

00:23:34.655 --> 00:23:35.514
or on your website?

00:23:35.565 --> 00:23:38.945
He says, look at them,
they have 300 followers.

00:23:39.004 --> 00:23:42.155
I have whatever,
X number, large

00:23:42.274 --> 00:23:43.054
number more.

00:23:43.545 --> 00:23:45.945
Why am I going to
elevate their profile

00:23:46.065 --> 00:23:49.155
by shining more light on
them and allowing them

00:23:49.155 --> 00:23:51.495
to use my platform in
order to get further?

00:23:52.275 --> 00:23:52.755
That's right.

00:23:53.355 --> 00:23:57.285
I think that perhaps
that is part of the

00:23:57.285 --> 00:23:59.295
tactic that's currently
being played right now

00:23:59.295 --> 00:24:03.525
by, Chris, and the, in
the organization there

00:24:03.525 --> 00:24:05.835
and I haven't been using
his last name and I

00:24:05.835 --> 00:24:07.125
haven't gotten anyone
in the organization.

00:24:07.125 --> 00:24:08.745
That's up to you guys
if you'd like to, but

00:24:09.075 --> 00:24:11.625
I believe that's part
of the tactic is to

00:24:12.135 --> 00:24:12.855
try and piggyback.

00:24:13.175 --> 00:24:13.985
Oh, absolutely.

00:24:13.985 --> 00:24:14.225
It is.

00:24:14.225 --> 00:24:16.115
They've got one hell of
a following and I'm doing

00:24:16.115 --> 00:24:16.895
the same thing you are.

00:24:16.925 --> 00:24:19.085
We're not elevating them
if anybody who knows

00:24:19.085 --> 00:24:20.045
they know by listening.

00:24:20.465 --> 00:24:23.435
Um, but yeah, they've,
they've got one

00:24:23.435 --> 00:24:25.565
hell of a following
on social media.

00:24:25.745 --> 00:24:28.355
Uh, you only have
to look at a couple

00:24:28.355 --> 00:24:29.075
of their petitions.

00:24:29.075 --> 00:24:29.765
There's one.

00:24:29.855 --> 00:24:30.335
What was it?

00:24:30.335 --> 00:24:32.375
Three weeks ago Greg
had had, it was just

00:24:32.375 --> 00:24:34.295
about, it was just
strictly centered

00:24:34.295 --> 00:24:36.005
around wolves 500 and.

00:24:36.275 --> 00:24:39.635
Yeah, it was like 504
or 503,000 already.

00:24:39.635 --> 00:24:39.785
Yeah.

00:24:40.445 --> 00:24:40.505
Yeah.

00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:42.180
And that's just
one of them.

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.310
And their Cougar
one was what?

00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:47.040
50 or 30 shooting for 50.

00:24:47.430 --> 00:24:47.610
Yeah.

00:24:48.100 --> 00:24:50.750
And that was on a, uh,
just a social media post.

00:24:50.780 --> 00:24:52.040
Just a social media post.

00:24:52.590 --> 00:24:52.890
Right.

00:24:52.890 --> 00:24:54.600
So they've, they've
got traction and we're

00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:58.290
trying to like, like I
said, Greg and I admin a

00:24:58.290 --> 00:24:59.420
bunch of different pages.

00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.980
We got between us,
probably 200,000

00:25:02.040 --> 00:25:03.000
people we admin.

00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:04.710
And whenever we
post anything like

00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:07.500
this, we try to be
strategic and cross

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:08.610
out where it's from.

00:25:08.790 --> 00:25:12.270
Who's posting it and we
always make a disclaimer.

00:25:12.580 --> 00:25:13.959
Don't engage them.

00:25:14.229 --> 00:25:16.389
Don't give them any
traction, but this

00:25:16.389 --> 00:25:19.449
is what they're
doing because hunters

00:25:19.610 --> 00:25:21.300
it's, it's, it's
a emotive, right.

00:25:21.479 --> 00:25:25.060
It really, really is
emotive and are privilege

00:25:25.080 --> 00:25:27.270
to hunt is under attack.

00:25:27.300 --> 00:25:29.580
And a lot of people don't
take too well to that.

00:25:29.790 --> 00:25:32.399
So they will
use screenshots.

00:25:32.520 --> 00:25:36.899
Uh, they will they'll
bait you they're really,

00:25:36.899 --> 00:25:37.919
really good at it.

00:25:38.229 --> 00:25:40.709
A couple of years ago,
I did, uh, before they,

00:25:41.399 --> 00:25:44.790
before they, uh, uh, went
full on with the grizzly

00:25:44.790 --> 00:25:48.179
bear hunt ban, I did
a, uh, interview for, I

00:25:48.179 --> 00:25:52.500
believe it was CBC and,
uh, the province, just

00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:54.719
talking about grizzly
hunting and I ended

00:25:54.719 --> 00:25:55.469
up with death threats.

00:25:55.739 --> 00:25:57.510
My family ended up
with death threats.

00:25:57.629 --> 00:26:02.040
And it was, if the shoe
was on the other foot.

00:26:02.820 --> 00:26:04.949
Imagine if a firearms
owner did that, Travis,

00:26:05.159 --> 00:26:08.610
if a firearms owner
went to somebody and

00:26:08.610 --> 00:26:10.530
said, we're going to
kill you type thing.

00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:13.780
How would that be taken
by the general public?

00:26:13.879 --> 00:26:16.040
You'd be front and center
of every news network.

00:26:16.490 --> 00:26:16.820
Exactly.

00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:17.180
Got it.

00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:18.170
Exactly.

00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:21.500
So, and this
organization, they

00:26:21.590 --> 00:26:23.540
did kind of talk about
the caribou numbers.

00:26:23.540 --> 00:26:23.900
Didn't they?

00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:26.090
And essentially didn't
they say, who cares?

00:26:26.570 --> 00:26:27.230
They did.

00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:28.850
They did great point.

00:26:28.850 --> 00:26:30.670
I'm glad you brought
that up because they,

00:26:30.670 --> 00:26:34.520
they did say essentially
who cares, they're gone.

00:26:34.610 --> 00:26:36.350
Just leave them
alone, let them go.

00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:38.150
They don't, they're
not going to make

00:26:38.150 --> 00:26:39.230
it, let them go.

00:26:39.770 --> 00:26:44.360
And as I said, why are
wolves more important

00:26:44.570 --> 00:26:46.370
than the caribou, right?

00:26:46.370 --> 00:26:48.590
I, I don't get that.

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:51.530
As a conservationist,
you want to see them all.

00:26:52.820 --> 00:26:55.640
So, as I spent some
time trying to think

00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:57.380
about this and I'm
looking at it, I'm

00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:58.850
trying to decompile it.

00:26:58.850 --> 00:27:02.000
And I think you guys,
well, I'm fairly certain

00:27:02.030 --> 00:27:05.000
you, your organization
and you guys are correct

00:27:05.030 --> 00:27:08.175
in so much as saying,
they're looking at

00:27:08.175 --> 00:27:10.905
this, but they have an
ulterior motive, they'd

00:27:10.905 --> 00:27:11.865
like to go further.

00:27:11.925 --> 00:27:14.385
And when you talk about
some veiled language,

00:27:14.415 --> 00:27:16.514
it doesn't sound very
veiled to me, it's

00:27:17.145 --> 00:27:18.075
pretty plainly written.

00:27:18.075 --> 00:27:20.085
And I think anybody with
a benefit of hindsight

00:27:20.085 --> 00:27:21.435
would turn around and
look at it and say,

00:27:21.705 --> 00:27:24.135
yeah, they're talking
about it back in 2018.

00:27:24.135 --> 00:27:25.335
They're talking
about it further.

00:27:26.685 --> 00:27:30.284
So essentially it
sounds like hunters

00:27:30.345 --> 00:27:33.435
have been trying to
fight an emotional

00:27:35.294 --> 00:27:38.055
ban and emotional
response, and they're

00:27:38.055 --> 00:27:39.165
trying to use science.

00:27:40.004 --> 00:27:41.115
How has that
been working out?

00:27:42.065 --> 00:27:43.294
It's it's, it's
a tough one.

00:27:43.595 --> 00:27:46.115
It's a tough one because
we're consumptive

00:27:46.115 --> 00:27:46.895
users, right.

00:27:46.895 --> 00:27:50.405
We go into the back
country, uh, for the

00:27:50.405 --> 00:27:52.685
experience and to try
and harvest an animal.

00:27:53.044 --> 00:27:57.784
And the ultimate goal
is to put something

00:27:57.784 --> 00:27:58.565
in your freezer.

00:27:59.195 --> 00:28:02.405
And we know as hunters
that it's, it's

00:28:02.405 --> 00:28:04.024
managed by the best
available science

00:28:04.024 --> 00:28:04.985
there is out there.

00:28:05.465 --> 00:28:13.425
So for the, they use it
to, uh, uh, they, they

00:28:13.425 --> 00:28:17.235
use emotion to try and
portray us as murderers.

00:28:17.805 --> 00:28:20.175
So we go, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:28:20.805 --> 00:28:21.795
We're not murderers.

00:28:21.795 --> 00:28:24.135
This is managed by
science and we don't,

00:28:24.165 --> 00:28:26.645
if we push back
with emotion, it's,

00:28:26.645 --> 00:28:27.585
it's a tough battle.

00:28:27.825 --> 00:28:29.475
Like I'll be straight,
it's a tough battle.

00:28:29.475 --> 00:28:33.764
So we try and say,
it's a, so it's a

00:28:33.764 --> 00:28:37.065
scientifically managed
hunt, but here is

00:28:37.065 --> 00:28:38.445
our connection to it.

00:28:38.475 --> 00:28:42.165
It's about that there's
uh, there's 160,000

00:28:42.165 --> 00:28:44.595
black bears estimated
in British Columbia, a

00:28:44.595 --> 00:28:46.815
quarter of all the bears
in North America reside

00:28:46.815 --> 00:28:47.925
here in British Columbia.

00:28:48.284 --> 00:28:50.725
That's a great argument
to counteract, well

00:28:50.745 --> 00:28:54.150
they're cute and
cuddly and uh, there's,

00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:56.460
there's not enough of
them because they do,

00:28:56.550 --> 00:28:57.510
you see it everywhere.

00:28:57.780 --> 00:28:59.340
Wolves are endangered,
black bears are

00:28:59.340 --> 00:29:00.840
endangered, cougars
are endangered.

00:29:00.840 --> 00:29:02.310
And if we can counteract
with a little bit

00:29:02.310 --> 00:29:04.680
of science and then
throw in the emotion

00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:06.990
of that connection,
it's, it's hopefully

00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:07.920
going to go a long way.

00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:10.790
So, one thing that
I was thinking about

00:29:10.790 --> 00:29:14.390
was what if you don't
counteract with the

00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:16.790
science, the science is
very, very important.

00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:19.820
Have the science as
a basis for something

00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:22.070
that you can rely upon
and he can hold up.

00:29:22.580 --> 00:29:26.000
But what if it isn't
done from a scientific

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.090
perspective and by it,
I mean, what if the, uh,

00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:31.970
rebuttal isn't done from
a scientific perspective?

00:29:32.300 --> 00:29:37.310
And what I'm thinking
is essentially we're

00:29:37.310 --> 00:29:40.400
in a losing situation,
the battle that's being

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.370
fought is an we're in
an untenable position.

00:29:43.610 --> 00:29:47.060
You cannot defend when
the argument has already

00:29:47.060 --> 00:29:50.879
been framed in such
a way that hunting is

00:29:50.879 --> 00:29:52.530
bad, firearms are bad.

00:29:52.770 --> 00:29:55.860
I mean, to the non
hunter, is a person

00:29:55.860 --> 00:29:57.600
that you have to
get this information

00:29:57.600 --> 00:29:58.370
right front of.

00:29:59.300 --> 00:30:02.960
Maybe instead of trying
to hold all the science

00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:05.270
out and say, but look at,
look at the numbers over

00:30:05.270 --> 00:30:08.810
here and look how the
science and the one side

00:30:08.810 --> 00:30:10.879
said that the grizzly
bears would all be

00:30:10.879 --> 00:30:11.870
wiped out at this rate.

00:30:11.870 --> 00:30:14.149
And that didn't really
work out the way that

00:30:14.149 --> 00:30:16.879
they figured, uh, the
science that the hunters

00:30:16.879 --> 00:30:18.439
have been accumulating
is actually good.

00:30:18.710 --> 00:30:18.949
Sure.

00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:26.000
What if instead, you
take a look at reframing

00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:29.600
the argument and in a
way that essentially

00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:33.320
makes the motive of the
other side, very clear.

00:30:33.740 --> 00:30:36.740
I mean, like if we were
to strip down what the

00:30:36.860 --> 00:30:41.030
end goal is from this
paper in this point and

00:30:41.030 --> 00:30:43.790
predator hunting, what
if we take that to the

00:30:43.790 --> 00:30:47.149
absolute and degree
and start identifying.

00:30:47.535 --> 00:30:50.145
What animals should
be harvested and what

00:30:50.145 --> 00:30:51.015
animals shouldn't.

00:30:51.705 --> 00:30:52.365
I bet ya.

00:30:53.565 --> 00:30:56.445
As you push it down,
they would turn around

00:30:56.445 --> 00:30:57.855
and say, well, I don't
think any animals

00:30:57.855 --> 00:30:58.635
should be harvested.

00:30:59.745 --> 00:31:02.415
I think as you push them
further and further in

00:31:02.415 --> 00:31:04.995
that conversation, it
would just come down

00:31:04.995 --> 00:31:08.055
to, I don't necessarily
think hunt hunting is

00:31:08.655 --> 00:31:09.975
an inalienable, right.

00:31:10.845 --> 00:31:12.525
Even though in the
paper, they do say for

00:31:12.525 --> 00:31:13.485
an indigenous group.

00:31:13.515 --> 00:31:13.845
Yes.

00:31:13.845 --> 00:31:14.715
That's your inalienable.

00:31:14.715 --> 00:31:14.895
Right.

00:31:14.895 --> 00:31:16.965
But for everybody else,
no, we'll play nice on

00:31:16.965 --> 00:31:19.395
this side, but the other
side, you know, we, we

00:31:19.395 --> 00:31:24.285
want some support and
you took a look at it

00:31:24.285 --> 00:31:29.385
for the extremist, uh,
essentially emotional

00:31:29.385 --> 00:31:30.465
terrorism that it is.

00:31:30.465 --> 00:31:31.695
I think it'd be
harder for people

00:31:31.695 --> 00:31:32.565
to get behind that.

00:31:33.015 --> 00:31:36.405
And in the day and age
of, uh, anti-bullying

00:31:36.405 --> 00:31:39.105
being out in the
forefront, the tactics

00:31:39.135 --> 00:31:42.825
and the way that it's
being portrayed, I

00:31:42.825 --> 00:31:46.875
mean, hunters aren't,
blood-thirsty savages.

00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.120
But there is that idea
out there that a hunter

00:31:54.120 --> 00:31:56.940
has a firearm, a firearm
is violent, firearm

00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.080
causes things to die.

00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:02.790
So in the approach of
taking a look at the

00:32:02.790 --> 00:32:05.160
other side of their
argument and really

00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.150
fleshing out what they're
looking at, a two-fold

00:32:09.150 --> 00:32:12.360
solution, I was thinking
anyways, was to separate

00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:17.010
the hunter from the
argument and what I say

00:32:17.010 --> 00:32:22.620
that, because if you
and bear hold with me,

00:32:22.620 --> 00:32:24.420
cause I don't have a
completely figured out,

00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:26.910
but I have some thoughts
on it, but you're never

00:32:26.910 --> 00:32:28.590
going to get all the
hunters to play nice.

00:32:29.070 --> 00:32:30.420
They're going to
have people that say,

00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:32.879
well, I'm, I'm only
a small game hunter.

00:32:32.879 --> 00:32:34.860
I'm only a bird
hunter or I'm only a,

00:32:34.929 --> 00:32:36.030
whatever it might be.

00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:39.780
So why bother trying
to get it all to the

00:32:39.780 --> 00:32:42.389
hunters on the same page
as it goes forward, when

00:32:42.389 --> 00:32:45.480
they throw a picture
up of somebody doing

00:32:45.659 --> 00:32:48.899
something that's either
illegal or maybe this

00:32:48.909 --> 00:32:51.929
in very poor taste,
all hunters wear that.

00:32:53.879 --> 00:32:55.560
So what if you separate
the hunter from there?

00:32:55.560 --> 00:32:57.480
So if somebody does
do that, that's the

00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.870
drunk driver, not all
drivers drive drunk,

00:33:01.169 --> 00:33:03.750
not all people who get
drunk drive, but there

00:33:03.750 --> 00:33:06.330
is a, there is a very
logical separation there.

00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:12.090
So if you take a look
at the actual, uh, end

00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.419
goal of what the other
side is trying to do,

00:33:15.450 --> 00:33:20.460
and then painted it in
such a way that shows

00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:21.330
it for what it is.

00:33:23.189 --> 00:33:24.240
I have a few more
thoughts on that,

00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.230
but I've been
talking for a bit.

00:33:25.230 --> 00:33:26.909
So I'm going to let
you get to let you,

00:33:26.909 --> 00:33:27.899
uh, jump in here.

00:33:28.790 --> 00:33:32.360
Uh, one of the issues
with that, um, you

00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:35.300
know, everybody's
getting painted with

00:33:35.300 --> 00:33:36.169
that broad brush.

00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:38.340
So they gave him, if you
look in the mainstream

00:33:38.340 --> 00:33:42.120
media, if there's a
poacher out there and you

00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:45.390
know, a hundred percent
convicted poacher,

00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:48.360
the mainstream media,
majority of them will

00:33:48.360 --> 00:33:49.410
still call them a hunter.

00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:50.520
Right.

00:33:50.820 --> 00:33:52.170
And it's, well,
you're not a hunter,

00:33:52.170 --> 00:33:54.420
you're a poacher, it's
illegal activities.

00:33:55.620 --> 00:33:56.910
Most of us don't do that.

00:33:56.910 --> 00:34:00.450
There's those,
every, every activity

00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:01.410
has got a bad egg.

00:34:02.370 --> 00:34:02.670
Right.

00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.580
So we always seem
to get painted with

00:34:05.580 --> 00:34:06.710
that brush and then.

00:34:06.870 --> 00:34:07.760
You cant escape it.

00:34:08.070 --> 00:34:09.570
No, no, you
can't for sure.

00:34:09.790 --> 00:34:12.080
It's the same thing
with the way they,

00:34:12.139 --> 00:34:13.219
they say trophy hunt.

00:34:13.429 --> 00:34:16.340
And if you ask a non
hunter, what a trophy

00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:18.260
hunt is, it's somebody
who goes out there

00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:20.659
and shoots the biggest
animal they can and only

00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.880
takes the antlers or
the horns or the hide.

00:34:23.120 --> 00:34:26.179
And we tell them, no,
that's a poacher and

00:34:26.250 --> 00:34:29.570
we're trying to, they
demonize the word trophy.

00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:34.680
And, uh, there's been
studies out there that

00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.889
even when you break it
down into a selective

00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:40.680
hunter, which we prefer
to use, where somebody

00:34:40.680 --> 00:34:42.810
goes out there and
they target the biggest

00:34:42.810 --> 00:34:48.930
animal possible to
get, uh, the reward of

00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:51.900
that, the trophy parts,
whether or not it's the

00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:55.230
antlers or the hide,
the, they break it down.

00:34:55.230 --> 00:34:58.620
And I believe it was
less than 4% of hunters

00:34:58.620 --> 00:35:02.010
identify as a quote
unquote trophy hunter.

00:35:02.580 --> 00:35:06.990
So we're, we're trying
to, uh, to delineate

00:35:06.990 --> 00:35:09.720
and show the separation
between what a trophy

00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:12.660
hunter is under their
definition versus what

00:35:12.660 --> 00:35:14.250
is under our definition.

00:35:14.580 --> 00:35:15.510
And I think that's
where a lot of the

00:35:15.510 --> 00:35:16.680
disconnect lay.

00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:21.150
So we do use the, the
emotional side of things

00:35:21.150 --> 00:35:24.930
with, uh, 1Campfire
where we try and show

00:35:25.170 --> 00:35:28.590
what a hunter has in
common with a non hunter,

00:35:29.010 --> 00:35:32.100
because it's, it's so
much more then the kill.

00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:34.470
It's about going out
and enjoying the back

00:35:34.470 --> 00:35:37.799
country and time with
family and friends.

00:35:37.799 --> 00:35:41.100
And I've always said
that the most successful

00:35:41.100 --> 00:35:42.630
hunts I've ever been
on, I've never even

00:35:42.630 --> 00:35:44.880
pulled the trigger that
because I come back with

00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.310
nothing but memories,
hunters, or hikers, we're

00:35:47.310 --> 00:35:51.029
boaters, we're mountain
climbers, we're skiers.

00:35:51.089 --> 00:35:54.960
We're we're we're
we, we love fishing.

00:35:54.990 --> 00:35:55.980
You name it.

00:35:56.040 --> 00:35:58.830
There's so much more
to the entire package

00:35:58.830 --> 00:36:00.480
and that's one of
the, uh, the things

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.470
we try and show.

00:36:01.470 --> 00:36:03.750
It's not just a,
uh, a blood sport.

00:36:04.170 --> 00:36:06.600
And that's another thing
you see quite constantly

00:36:06.750 --> 00:36:08.940
is, uh, there is no
limits on anything.

00:36:09.435 --> 00:36:12.255
That you're looking to
go what, it's not like

00:36:12.415 --> 00:36:14.745
you turn a corner and
all of a sudden there's

00:36:14.745 --> 00:36:16.635
15 deers standing there
and you get out and

00:36:16.635 --> 00:36:19.245
you mow them down with
your scary AR 15 right?

00:36:19.965 --> 00:36:21.225
And it's, it
doesn't happen.

00:36:21.525 --> 00:36:25.905
I, I live in Prince
George and I get moose

00:36:25.905 --> 00:36:27.525
in my front yard and
bears in my front

00:36:27.525 --> 00:36:28.785
yard, constantly.

00:36:29.295 --> 00:36:33.135
But it's not as
easy as that because

00:36:33.135 --> 00:36:34.515
it's about so much
more than the hunt.

00:36:36.655 --> 00:36:39.135
So much more than the
kill that the hunt is

00:36:39.465 --> 00:36:41.205
the process, right?

00:36:41.205 --> 00:36:42.765
And there's so much
more we're chasing

00:36:42.765 --> 00:36:43.485
than animals.

00:36:45.485 --> 00:36:47.945
So 1Campfire, that's
something that Wild

00:36:48.005 --> 00:36:50.525
Sheep's Society
has supported.

00:36:50.825 --> 00:36:51.785
And is that it.

00:36:52.415 --> 00:36:53.645
It is Wild Sheep Society.

00:36:53.825 --> 00:36:55.505
It is a campaign by
The Wild Sheep Society.

00:36:55.505 --> 00:36:55.925
Yes.

00:36:56.315 --> 00:36:56.585
Okay.

00:36:57.035 --> 00:36:59.825
And it's been about two
years now, I believe

00:36:59.845 --> 00:37:00.635
it's been running for.

00:37:00.785 --> 00:37:01.265
Just over.

00:37:01.275 --> 00:37:01.715
Yes.

00:37:02.255 --> 00:37:05.195
And do you guys have
metrics, uh, do you

00:37:05.195 --> 00:37:08.285
hold metrics and do
you, uh, have, uh,

00:37:08.685 --> 00:37:12.075
measuring system for, uh,
measuring the efficacy

00:37:12.105 --> 00:37:13.995
of the 1Campfire.

00:37:14.405 --> 00:37:14.755
No.

00:37:14.825 --> 00:37:17.495
Specifically, it's about
getting the message out

00:37:17.495 --> 00:37:22.925
to as many non-hunters
as we can with a, a soft

00:37:22.925 --> 00:37:24.275
core hunting message.

00:37:24.365 --> 00:37:25.705
Uh it's.

00:37:25.835 --> 00:37:28.295
As I said to show that
connection that we shared

00:37:28.325 --> 00:37:30.035
that's about more than
pulling the trigger.

00:37:30.575 --> 00:37:35.075
So it's, you'll see
some posts, we'll have a

00:37:35.075 --> 00:37:37.865
bit more veiled hunting
nuances in there.

00:37:38.255 --> 00:37:41.825
Some we'll be talking
about the hiking and that

00:37:41.825 --> 00:37:43.325
the tie in with hunting.

00:37:43.415 --> 00:37:46.955
Uh, we have, uh, tasty
Tuesdays, which shows,

00:37:47.015 --> 00:37:51.545
uh, wild game usage,
uh, wildlife, Wednesdays

00:37:51.605 --> 00:37:54.485
highlight wildlife and
successes hunters have

00:37:54.545 --> 00:37:57.455
had with rebuilding
populations, like in

00:37:57.455 --> 00:38:00.425
the 1930s, uh, they
figured turkeys were

00:38:00.425 --> 00:38:01.205
going to go extinct.

00:38:01.925 --> 00:38:03.785
There was less
than 30,000 across,

00:38:03.785 --> 00:38:05.015
uh, North America.

00:38:05.255 --> 00:38:06.515
And now there's
over 7 million.

00:38:07.020 --> 00:38:09.960
It's it's, it's crazy
that the positive

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.850
impact hunting has
had on the landscape.

00:38:12.270 --> 00:38:13.930
And that's what we try
and show with 1Campfire

00:38:13.950 --> 00:38:15.840
that it's about so much
more than the kill.

00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.160
Mm.

00:38:18.410 --> 00:38:20.960
So, and, and that
definitely shows one

00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.450
side, I think with
COVID that there is a

00:38:23.450 --> 00:38:25.910
huge push for people
to want to learn about

00:38:25.910 --> 00:38:27.680
self sustainability.

00:38:27.680 --> 00:38:27.770
Yes.

00:38:27.770 --> 00:38:30.920
Self-sufficiency a lot of
people want to get into

00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:32.930
nature and they want to
learn about hunting and

00:38:32.930 --> 00:38:37.400
hunters share an intimate
relationship with nature.

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:40.580
That non-hunters would
have a very difficult

00:38:40.580 --> 00:38:41.840
time understanding.

00:38:42.259 --> 00:38:46.370
I mean, the amount of
preparation of learning,

00:38:46.370 --> 00:38:48.860
the land of learning,
the animal of learning,

00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:51.140
how to care for the
game, eat afterwards

00:38:51.140 --> 00:38:52.130
and processing it.

00:38:52.130 --> 00:38:54.950
And it's so much
more than just the

00:38:54.950 --> 00:38:57.050
pulling of the trigger
that happens in a

00:38:57.230 --> 00:38:58.279
fraction of a second.

00:38:58.340 --> 00:38:58.790
That's right.

00:38:59.690 --> 00:39:01.700
And I think that
1campfire does a

00:39:01.700 --> 00:39:03.650
great job of showing
those other things.

00:39:04.109 --> 00:39:06.779
I'm wondering if there's
a possible way that

00:39:06.779 --> 00:39:09.180
somebody perhaps much
smarter than myself

00:39:09.509 --> 00:39:12.839
can take the, uh,
take the conversation.

00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:15.779
And I see 1Campfire as
a prong of showing what,

00:39:15.779 --> 00:39:18.410
uh, uh, hunters do.

00:39:18.680 --> 00:39:22.279
And I see the general
trend towards food as

00:39:22.279 --> 00:39:27.290
being a huge driver for
people to be interested

00:39:27.290 --> 00:39:30.230
in, in wild foraging,
fishing and hunting.

00:39:30.709 --> 00:39:35.689
But is there a way to
essentially separate,

00:39:35.899 --> 00:39:38.870
not even have that
trophy argument because

00:39:38.870 --> 00:39:41.450
trophy hunting by whose
definition, obviously

00:39:41.450 --> 00:39:43.339
there's, there's going
to be definitions

00:39:43.370 --> 00:39:45.049
and those definitions
can get twisted.

00:39:45.290 --> 00:39:47.120
So what do we just take
trophy rate out of it?

00:39:48.140 --> 00:39:50.390
Take a look at
the hunter aspect.

00:39:50.390 --> 00:39:51.529
We'll look at this
guy, he poached

00:39:51.529 --> 00:39:52.189
all those animals.

00:39:52.189 --> 00:39:53.149
Well, he's not a hunter.

00:39:53.149 --> 00:39:54.350
Of course he's
not a hunter, but

00:39:54.350 --> 00:39:55.669
the non-hunters
don't see that.

00:39:56.330 --> 00:39:58.100
Take the hunting
aspect out of it.

00:39:58.100 --> 00:40:01.009
And maybe go for
my perspective of.

00:40:01.890 --> 00:40:04.080
Why is it this
organization wants to

00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:05.250
see the caribou die?

00:40:05.819 --> 00:40:07.799
I mean, if I ask a person
a question, well, do you

00:40:07.799 --> 00:40:08.850
still beat your wife?

00:40:08.910 --> 00:40:10.680
How do you answer
that, right?

00:40:10.830 --> 00:40:11.430
Well, no.

00:40:11.430 --> 00:40:11.759
Okay.

00:40:11.759 --> 00:40:12.710
So you stopped, right?

00:40:12.750 --> 00:40:13.500
Well, yeah, so?

00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:14.370
So you're a wife beater?

00:40:14.370 --> 00:40:14.819
Got it.

00:40:15.210 --> 00:40:17.279
I mean, essentially
that's a position that

00:40:17.279 --> 00:40:18.480
hunters are currently in.

00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.799
And so talking about
trophy hunting and

00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:25.440
talking about defending
these different hunting

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.400
practices, in my opinion,
is a losing battle.

00:40:29.640 --> 00:40:32.880
And maybe that will
form the science side.

00:40:33.240 --> 00:40:36.299
That'll back up an
argument, but a more

00:40:36.330 --> 00:40:37.500
offensive approach.

00:40:37.740 --> 00:40:41.360
And it's not coming out
and calling names or,

00:40:42.009 --> 00:40:44.819
or, or anything like
this or the death threats

00:40:44.819 --> 00:40:47.430
that you are receiving,
but it's really

00:40:47.430 --> 00:40:50.759
systematically drilling
down into the other side

00:40:51.270 --> 00:40:54.060
and taking a look at
what the end goal is.

00:40:54.060 --> 00:40:55.799
And if the science
supports that,

00:40:56.100 --> 00:40:56.759
Hey, guess what?

00:40:56.759 --> 00:40:58.049
They're going to have
a bunch of hunters that

00:40:58.230 --> 00:40:59.430
that'll get in behind it.

00:41:00.810 --> 00:41:02.400
But if they're actively
saying that science

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.370
doesn't support it, who
wants to be labeled as an

00:41:05.370 --> 00:41:09.720
eco terrorist or, I mean,
essentially irrational,

00:41:09.750 --> 00:41:10.950
irrational individual.

00:41:10.950 --> 00:41:15.330
And my way of thinking
goes that that's sort

00:41:15.330 --> 00:41:17.010
of the approach that
needs to be taken.

00:41:17.350 --> 00:41:24.120
A way to maybe hire a
PR company to reframe

00:41:24.150 --> 00:41:26.760
what is actually
happening into something

00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.950
that is palatable and
understandable by the

00:41:28.950 --> 00:41:32.430
general public and maybe
hire a law firm because

00:41:32.430 --> 00:41:35.640
I did in my research
notice that the other

00:41:35.640 --> 00:41:37.680
side seems to be doing
both of those things

00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:40.080
with great success.

00:41:41.390 --> 00:41:45.620
Pro problem is we do have
great PR people in our

00:41:45.620 --> 00:41:46.880
wings with Wild Sheep.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.310
Uh, however, the
problem is is we, we

00:41:49.310 --> 00:41:50.780
don't have the pocket
books like them.

00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:52.670
We'll be blunt, right?

00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:53.840
We're we're
volunteer run.

00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:56.390
We have what Greg
two paid employees.

00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:57.120
Yep.

00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.910
Two paid employees
and 1100 members.

00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:01.520
Yeah.

00:42:02.115 --> 00:42:05.825
And we, our money's not
as, not as, not there

00:42:06.575 --> 00:42:09.154
But 115,000 hunters.

00:42:09.404 --> 00:42:09.705
Yeah.

00:42:10.345 --> 00:42:10.785
Exactly.

00:42:10.955 --> 00:42:13.535
We, we can't get, uh, we
can't get 10,000 hunters

00:42:13.535 --> 00:42:17.705
to sign up, to protect
the, the privilege

00:42:17.705 --> 00:42:18.395
to hunt right now.

00:42:18.424 --> 00:42:19.955
As you said, hunters,
can't come together

00:42:19.955 --> 00:42:24.455
to, uh, to agree on
what's the best firearm

00:42:24.455 --> 00:42:27.095
for using in a season.

00:42:27.134 --> 00:42:28.745
You still see people.

00:42:29.345 --> 00:42:30.904
Well, no, I'm a
bow hunter, well,

00:42:30.904 --> 00:42:31.714
I'm a rifle hunter.

00:42:31.745 --> 00:42:33.035
Well, I'm a
shotgun hunter.

00:42:33.154 --> 00:42:35.285
Well, how dare you shoot
that two point buck?

00:42:35.555 --> 00:42:37.504
Well, it was legal, but
you should hold out and

00:42:37.504 --> 00:42:38.525
wait for a mature buck.

00:42:38.555 --> 00:42:39.694
Get rid of the
doe season.

00:42:40.085 --> 00:42:41.435
There's a wolf
call on right now.

00:42:41.435 --> 00:42:42.845
Well, don't shoot
anything you can't eat.

00:42:42.875 --> 00:42:45.065
I can keep going on
and on and on and on.

00:42:45.545 --> 00:42:48.444
And hunter, hunters
can be are, are our

00:42:48.484 --> 00:42:49.384
own worst enemies.

00:42:49.444 --> 00:42:52.415
And, uh, dude, you
nailed it was saying

00:42:52.415 --> 00:42:53.555
we have a PR problem.

00:42:53.585 --> 00:42:56.464
We've we've, uh, we've
known that for years

00:42:57.065 --> 00:42:59.165
and it it's tough to.

00:42:59.475 --> 00:43:02.025
To take a narrative
back from the masses

00:43:02.055 --> 00:43:05.265
that has been so well
executed against us.

00:43:05.715 --> 00:43:07.065
And especially
when you're facing

00:43:07.065 --> 00:43:10.005
organizations that have
got seemingly endless

00:43:10.005 --> 00:43:13.035
pocketbooks and a
lawyers on retainer.

00:43:13.875 --> 00:43:14.385
Mhmm.

00:43:15.155 --> 00:43:18.755
Well, I look at on the
firearm side, there's a

00:43:18.875 --> 00:43:22.445
ongoing court challenge
at the moment for the OIC

00:43:22.445 --> 00:43:25.595
firearms prohibition that
came out and firearms

00:43:25.595 --> 00:43:27.065
owners said, I know
what we're going to do.

00:43:27.515 --> 00:43:31.065
We're going to get a
petition, bill E-2341,

00:43:31.325 --> 00:43:32.885
and we're going to
get people sign this.

00:43:32.885 --> 00:43:34.175
And what are we
going to ask for?

00:43:34.595 --> 00:43:36.095
Democratic process.

00:43:36.125 --> 00:43:36.335
Yes.

00:43:36.365 --> 00:43:38.795
We want the government
to at least debate

00:43:40.175 --> 00:43:42.095
the banning of
certain firearms or

00:43:42.095 --> 00:43:44.075
not before passing
it through, that's

00:43:44.075 --> 00:43:45.035
all we're asking for.

00:43:45.605 --> 00:43:49.325
This petition got
the largest number

00:43:49.955 --> 00:43:52.265
of signatures of any
e-pe- I don't know if

00:43:52.265 --> 00:43:54.435
it's any petition, but
definitely any e-petition

00:43:54.455 --> 00:43:55.445
in Canadian history.

00:43:56.825 --> 00:43:58.335
And the result
of that was.

00:43:59.085 --> 00:43:59.275
Eh.

00:44:00.445 --> 00:44:00.965
That's it.

00:44:01.305 --> 00:44:01.485
Yep.

00:44:01.575 --> 00:44:02.745
Oh, thanks guys.

00:44:02.985 --> 00:44:03.615
Next.

00:44:04.395 --> 00:44:10.925
And I have to wonder,
the same approach if,

00:44:10.945 --> 00:44:14.105
if hunters and a lot of
hunters will not, uh,

00:44:14.645 --> 00:44:16.505
put themselves in the
same boat as the people

00:44:16.505 --> 00:44:20.745
fighting on E-2341 or the
OIC firearms prohibition

00:44:20.765 --> 00:44:23.165
because they say I'm
a waterfowl hunter,

00:44:23.165 --> 00:44:24.215
it doesn't affect me.

00:44:24.215 --> 00:44:26.105
And maybe it does, right.

00:44:26.795 --> 00:44:33.125
But with the, the
current trend that's

00:44:33.125 --> 00:44:35.075
happening, that you're
going to see in the news.

00:44:35.075 --> 00:44:36.725
There's a lot of
people that are certain

00:44:36.725 --> 00:44:39.815
to pick up and say,
hold on a second.

00:44:40.505 --> 00:44:44.585
If they can ban firearms
to ordering counsel,

00:44:44.915 --> 00:44:48.695
just without any debate,
what would happen to

00:44:48.695 --> 00:44:51.155
my other pro personal
property that I own?

00:44:51.345 --> 00:44:54.815
And the firearms um,
advocacy, advocacy

00:44:54.815 --> 00:44:57.720
groups have been working
very hard to find a

00:44:57.720 --> 00:45:00.150
relationship between that
and something that the

00:45:00.150 --> 00:45:02.640
general public can get
behind and understand.

00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:03.540
That's right.

00:45:04.560 --> 00:45:08.700
And for hunters in
British Columbia, I think

00:45:08.700 --> 00:45:12.000
a process of divorcing
the hunters from the

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.180
actual conversation
completely and take

00:45:15.180 --> 00:45:16.950
a look at something
that the general

00:45:16.950 --> 00:45:20.790
public can get behind
as a, uh, something

00:45:20.790 --> 00:45:21.390
that makes sense.

00:45:21.390 --> 00:45:23.730
Well, hold on a second,
if they ban predator

00:45:23.730 --> 00:45:27.030
hunting based off of
social license to operate

00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:30.210
or social license to
hunt, which the social

00:45:30.210 --> 00:45:34.980
license to operate really
speaks for a group of

00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:37.170
individuals, but not
all of the individuals.

00:45:37.230 --> 00:45:39.030
And it's usually the
most vociferous group

00:45:39.030 --> 00:45:41.280
that's going to say,
Hey, w we, we hold the

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:42.390
moral high ground, right?

00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.190
And then the rest
of the people say, I

00:45:44.190 --> 00:45:45.270
could care less right.

00:45:45.270 --> 00:45:47.100
I'm not a hunter,
hey, sounds good.

00:45:47.120 --> 00:45:48.900
That's a nice looking
wolf over there.

00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:49.440
Yep.

00:45:49.590 --> 00:45:53.700
So if, if hunters are
able to reframe exactly

00:45:53.700 --> 00:45:56.550
what it is that the other
side is trying to say,

00:45:57.165 --> 00:46:00.405
in a factual way and
really point out, uh,

00:46:00.795 --> 00:46:03.015
what that is and why,
and make it applicable.

00:46:03.435 --> 00:46:05.475
I think it would be a
heck of a lot easier.

00:46:07.565 --> 00:46:08.675
Yeah, totally get it.

00:46:08.705 --> 00:46:10.505
I, when it comes to
e-petitions, I was

00:46:10.505 --> 00:46:13.595
the one behind 2576,
the democratic process

00:46:13.595 --> 00:46:16.605
that had 60,000 and
I got the, uh, the,

00:46:16.605 --> 00:46:18.785
the pushback of, eh.

00:46:19.235 --> 00:46:20.615
And essentially that's,
what's, that's, what's

00:46:20.615 --> 00:46:22.715
happening to us right
now is hunters, right?

00:46:22.715 --> 00:46:26.645
We can have the loudest
voice online in our own

00:46:26.645 --> 00:46:29.225
little community, but
if we can't get that

00:46:29.225 --> 00:46:31.895
social license out there
in the non-hunters,

00:46:31.895 --> 00:46:36.135
because if you want to
break it down, uh, uh,

00:46:36.245 --> 00:46:38.675
demographically, what
we're, we have 5 million

00:46:38.675 --> 00:46:42.695
people in BC give or
take, and we got 115,000.

00:46:43.385 --> 00:46:46.625
And if you take away even
half that are against

00:46:46.625 --> 00:46:50.105
large carnivore hunting,
we're down to 50,000 and

00:46:50.105 --> 00:46:53.315
we're, we're, we're this
much of the population.

00:46:53.645 --> 00:46:55.745
And we know that we
don't hold the votes.

00:46:56.565 --> 00:46:58.815
Even if every single
hunter signed, we

00:46:58.815 --> 00:46:59.835
don't hold the votes.

00:47:00.075 --> 00:47:04.455
We need that swing of
the 80% on the fence.

00:47:04.815 --> 00:47:06.735
We need to show them
that we're not the bad

00:47:06.735 --> 00:47:09.255
guys that we truly care
about wildlife, right.

00:47:09.705 --> 00:47:11.625
And that's, that's
the uphill battle

00:47:11.625 --> 00:47:12.225
we've been facing.

00:47:12.225 --> 00:47:13.965
Like I said, 30, 40
years ago, it was

00:47:13.965 --> 00:47:15.795
commonplace to see deer
on the hood of a car.

00:47:16.005 --> 00:47:18.045
You do that
now and ho boy.

00:47:19.085 --> 00:47:21.005
But showing them that
we're not the bad guys

00:47:21.035 --> 00:47:22.115
is defensive again.

00:47:22.295 --> 00:47:22.775
That's right.

00:47:23.195 --> 00:47:24.904
Is there an
offensive approach?

00:47:25.745 --> 00:47:27.935
And maybe like I
say, maybe a listener

00:47:27.935 --> 00:47:29.975
will come in and play
offense of something

00:47:29.975 --> 00:47:32.795
that's clear and easily
looked at by any side

00:47:33.545 --> 00:47:37.445
and will stand on its
own, on its own merits.

00:47:38.025 --> 00:47:39.185
Not something that
has to be talked

00:47:39.185 --> 00:47:41.255
about secretly in the
background and not, not

00:47:41.255 --> 00:47:43.435
some mud mud-slinging
campaign, but.

00:47:44.035 --> 00:47:46.904
It seems to me that a
proper offensive approach

00:47:46.935 --> 00:47:49.415
. Definitely needs to
be, be like a pivot

00:47:49.565 --> 00:47:50.765
And that's where
it gets tough.

00:47:50.825 --> 00:47:54.665
Uh, we we've had people
say, uh, w there's been

00:47:54.665 --> 00:47:56.495
some great graphics
that have circulated in

00:47:56.495 --> 00:47:58.714
the hunting community
of this is what a wolf

00:47:58.745 --> 00:48:01.174
really is like where
you've got a cow moose

00:48:01.174 --> 00:48:03.904
standing in a puddle
with their a little

00:48:03.904 --> 00:48:06.634
calf and there's six or
seven wolves around it

00:48:06.634 --> 00:48:09.904
showing . That, well,
they're not all magical

00:48:10.055 --> 00:48:12.725
mystical beings that
ride rainbows, right as

00:48:12.725 --> 00:48:14.825
they're portrayed they're
they're wild animals.

00:48:14.855 --> 00:48:18.545
We know that it's just,
how can you show the

00:48:18.545 --> 00:48:21.575
non-hunting public,
the truth behind

00:48:21.605 --> 00:48:22.865
these mystical beings?

00:48:22.895 --> 00:48:25.355
There's there's another
great one that circulates

00:48:25.355 --> 00:48:27.424
in the hunting community
of a polar bear.

00:48:27.424 --> 00:48:29.045
Greg knows the one
that I'm talking about,

00:48:29.045 --> 00:48:31.504
where it's a committed
infanticide, where

00:48:31.504 --> 00:48:34.234
it's holding the head
of a two month, three

00:48:34.234 --> 00:48:37.335
month old cub, because
it's just killed.

00:48:37.335 --> 00:48:37.675
It's common.

00:48:37.675 --> 00:48:38.745
It wants to,
that's right.

00:48:38.745 --> 00:48:41.745
Because it just killed
the Cub because it

00:48:41.745 --> 00:48:43.275
wants to breed mom
again and send her

00:48:43.275 --> 00:48:44.415
into an estrous cycle.

00:48:45.405 --> 00:48:47.835
Problem becomes is
how do we put the real

00:48:47.845 --> 00:48:49.875
reality of nature out
there without almost

00:48:49.875 --> 00:48:51.555
being offensive, right?

00:48:51.555 --> 00:48:52.985
It's a, it's
an ugly battle.

00:48:54.025 --> 00:48:56.375
Maybe it's not so much
a reality of nature, but

00:48:56.375 --> 00:48:58.295
maybe the reality of the
argument that's being

00:48:58.295 --> 00:49:02.225
used against hunters and
the reality of the other

00:49:02.225 --> 00:49:06.215
side, if all of a sudden
the other, the people who

00:49:06.215 --> 00:49:08.705
would look to ban hunting
based on the fact that

00:49:08.705 --> 00:49:15.005
it doesn't hold the moral
high ground are shown to

00:49:15.005 --> 00:49:19.205
be essentially terrorists
and their approach.

00:49:19.535 --> 00:49:21.575
Let's get, let, let's
get everybody together.

00:49:21.815 --> 00:49:24.005
Let's stage whatever
photos we can, let's

00:49:24.005 --> 00:49:25.895
get as much social
outcry, right.

00:49:26.515 --> 00:49:27.875
Let's make death threats.

00:49:28.085 --> 00:49:30.330
And if that
picture is painted.

00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.370
And we just, I mean.

00:49:32.370 --> 00:49:35.120
We've, we've I know I
personally have, and

00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:39.200
Greg has as well, we've
got pages of death

00:49:39.200 --> 00:49:41.180
threats of screenshots
that we've had against,

00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:44.839
uh, hunters and anglers
and sport shooters.

00:49:44.870 --> 00:49:46.610
And we've, we've shipped
them to the media.

00:49:46.610 --> 00:49:49.250
We, I had one local
media person that had

00:49:49.250 --> 00:49:50.900
the balls a couple of
years ago to cover it.

00:49:51.319 --> 00:49:52.790
And it didn't go
anywhere beyond that.

00:49:53.270 --> 00:49:56.839
Well, are the police
agencies will generally

00:49:56.839 --> 00:49:59.750
say, unless you feel
a direct threat,

00:50:00.290 --> 00:50:01.430
we can't act on it.

00:50:01.700 --> 00:50:04.220
Well, that person
lives in England.

00:50:04.310 --> 00:50:06.110
They're just
venting, block them.

00:50:06.980 --> 00:50:09.200
So it's, it's tough.

00:50:09.860 --> 00:50:13.790
And it's, I, yeah, it's
just, uh, almost feel

00:50:13.790 --> 00:50:15.890
like we're spinning our
wheels when it comes to

00:50:16.040 --> 00:50:19.910
how we show that we're,
we're not as bad and

00:50:19.910 --> 00:50:23.509
there's, there's a, uh,
a YouTube video out there

00:50:23.509 --> 00:50:25.640
that I got to find again,
it's a Paul Watson.

00:50:26.130 --> 00:50:29.250
From Greenpeace and
he's in an interview

00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:31.740
kind of off the cuff
with somebody and it

00:50:31.740 --> 00:50:34.230
goes back, Oh, this
must be mid eighties.

00:50:34.770 --> 00:50:38.700
And he says something
to the effect of when

00:50:38.700 --> 00:50:41.370
we want to raise money,
we'll, we'll go after

00:50:41.370 --> 00:50:43.110
wolves or bears because
they're the ones

00:50:43.110 --> 00:50:44.130
people will grab onto.

00:50:44.130 --> 00:50:45.509
And we can turn this
into a money making

00:50:45.509 --> 00:50:47.790
campaign, something like
that gets out there.

00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:49.050
But the problem
is, is getting the

00:50:49.050 --> 00:50:50.910
mainstream media to
run with it without,

00:50:51.270 --> 00:50:53.100
uh, without any spin.

00:50:53.160 --> 00:50:56.009
We've, uh, we've had
some we've, we've had

00:50:56.009 --> 00:50:58.650
some great media coverage
out there and you read,

00:50:58.650 --> 00:50:59.220
you read, you read.

00:50:59.220 --> 00:51:00.090
You're like, all
right, all right.

00:51:00.090 --> 00:51:02.070
Holy crap, they did it.

00:51:02.190 --> 00:51:04.230
And then they spun it
into something that it

00:51:04.230 --> 00:51:05.490
really truly wasn't.

00:51:06.150 --> 00:51:08.040
So I don't know, Greg,
what are your thoughts

00:51:08.040 --> 00:51:10.419
on, uh, how something
like that could be done?

00:51:10.919 --> 00:51:12.630
Like I said, Greg and
I admin pages where

00:51:12.630 --> 00:51:14.520
there's probably 200,000
people . Between us.

00:51:14.520 --> 00:51:18.180
So we see, we see it in
the hunter community.

00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:22.275
The one that, uh,
with Travis, you've

00:51:22.275 --> 00:51:23.775
been from the lower
mainland as well.

00:51:23.835 --> 00:51:26.535
The, the cougars
and poco right now.

00:51:27.285 --> 00:51:27.615
Sure.

00:51:28.005 --> 00:51:30.405
And you know,
conservation officers

00:51:30.405 --> 00:51:33.195
have put down a couple
of those cougars and

00:51:33.195 --> 00:51:34.995
the backlash that
they've gotten on

00:51:34.995 --> 00:51:37.935
social media, they're
getting death threats.

00:51:37.935 --> 00:51:40.455
And, you know, people
are upset that they're

00:51:40.455 --> 00:51:42.525
killing the cougars
that are coming into

00:51:42.525 --> 00:51:44.535
their neighborhoods,
stalking their children,

00:51:44.565 --> 00:51:48.645
killing their pets, but
they're monsters for

00:51:49.275 --> 00:51:50.475
protecting the people.

00:51:51.435 --> 00:51:57.285
So where, where do we
grasp the emotional

00:51:58.035 --> 00:52:01.815
ground to, to take these
take on the anti hunters?

00:52:03.065 --> 00:52:05.955
You know, they're
so upset about being

00:52:05.955 --> 00:52:07.185
protected from cougars.

00:52:07.605 --> 00:52:09.615
Like w there, we're
monsters for putting down

00:52:09.615 --> 00:52:12.165
a problem animal in your
neighborhood, in your

00:52:12.165 --> 00:52:15.745
backyard, that's taken a
puppy off a leash while

00:52:15.765 --> 00:52:16.755
someone's walking it.

00:52:18.165 --> 00:52:21.689
Like you can't, you can't
argue with those people

00:52:22.549 --> 00:52:23.939
and, and then if you do.

00:52:23.939 --> 00:52:26.069
What would mama bear
do if, if it was coming

00:52:26.069 --> 00:52:30.419
after her cubs, I mean,
we are a part of the

00:52:30.419 --> 00:52:33.779
whole natural process and
we have stuck our finger

00:52:33.810 --> 00:52:36.359
in the dish of water
and we cannot expect

00:52:36.390 --> 00:52:37.529
not to see ripples.

00:52:37.709 --> 00:52:38.009
Yep.

00:52:38.069 --> 00:52:38.490
Nailed it.

00:52:38.649 --> 00:52:39.859
Exactly great.

00:52:39.859 --> 00:52:41.120
And that's, that's
the disconnect.

00:52:41.120 --> 00:52:43.640
People they go, let
nature balance itself

00:52:44.180 --> 00:52:47.270
while we are in nature,
wrap your head around

00:52:47.270 --> 00:52:48.439
that we're part of
nature and it might

00:52:48.439 --> 00:52:49.419
make it easier, right?

00:52:49.430 --> 00:52:51.169
Like that's, that's
a way we could

00:52:51.169 --> 00:52:52.100
possibly approach it.

00:52:52.100 --> 00:52:52.430
Right.

00:52:52.700 --> 00:52:54.740
Remember, we are
a part of nature.

00:52:55.220 --> 00:52:57.290
And as such, you do
have an impact, right?

00:52:57.350 --> 00:52:59.540
Whether, whether or
not you're vegan,

00:52:59.540 --> 00:53:03.649
pescatarian, vegetarian,
or full on carnivore,

00:53:04.279 --> 00:53:07.160
in order for us to live,
something has to die.

00:53:07.620 --> 00:53:10.350
Whether or not you do
it by your own hand or

00:53:10.350 --> 00:53:12.300
somebody else's hand
you've you're, you're

00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:14.300
killing something
in order to have to

00:53:14.470 --> 00:53:15.450
live on this planet.

00:53:15.450 --> 00:53:19.140
And it's just as hunters,
we, we choose to take

00:53:19.140 --> 00:53:20.460
out the middleman right?

00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:22.950
And, uh, we, we try to
connect with our food

00:53:22.950 --> 00:53:24.030
as much as possible.

00:53:24.150 --> 00:53:26.280
And it's, yeah, it's
about, it's about that

00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:28.920
connection and trying
to show it as much as

00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:33.630
possible and not be
offensive, but be real.

00:53:33.720 --> 00:53:37.620
So, yeah, it's a tough
battle and it's, uh,

00:53:37.830 --> 00:53:38.970
there's, there's a
couple of people out

00:53:38.970 --> 00:53:40.770
there that have got
similar sort of ideas.

00:53:40.770 --> 00:53:44.760
Uh, Greg will know
Robby uh, Robby Krueger.

00:53:45.090 --> 00:53:47.130
He says that, uh, we
were pushing a stone

00:53:47.130 --> 00:53:50.790
uphill with our shoulder
and it we're going

00:53:50.790 --> 00:53:52.620
to continue to do it
as people are pushing

00:53:52.620 --> 00:53:53.970
the mud down the hill
where it's still trying

00:53:53.970 --> 00:53:54.870
to push it up right.

00:53:54.870 --> 00:53:56.160
So it's tough.

00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:56.880
It really is.

00:53:56.910 --> 00:53:57.060
Yeah.

00:53:57.290 --> 00:53:59.120
I think from the
hunting perspective,

00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:00.290
yes, definitely.

00:54:00.350 --> 00:54:02.210
When you take a look
at the Tahltan, and

00:54:02.210 --> 00:54:05.115
they've said, grizzlies
are out of control.

00:54:05.355 --> 00:54:05.535
Yep.

00:54:05.984 --> 00:54:07.154
We're going to have
to start calling them.

00:54:07.634 --> 00:54:10.125
You look at the paper
that Chris wrote.

00:54:10.214 --> 00:54:11.504
Oh, indigenous groups.

00:54:11.535 --> 00:54:14.085
We just they've got
an inalienable, right.

00:54:14.265 --> 00:54:14.654
That's right.

00:54:15.105 --> 00:54:17.654
If we take a look at
this logic, how is it

00:54:17.654 --> 00:54:19.995
that they have a right
and non-indigenous

00:54:19.995 --> 00:54:22.274
don't and at the
indigenous have a right.

00:54:22.365 --> 00:54:24.825
At what point does their
social license to operate

00:54:24.825 --> 00:54:29.685
expire, but you look
at the, um, New Zealand

00:54:29.685 --> 00:54:31.694
sharp, super suitors
that are brought in on

00:54:31.694 --> 00:54:35.835
my Haida Gwaii just to,
to cull the animals.

00:54:36.065 --> 00:54:38.504
All the, uh, uh,
sitka is out there.

00:54:38.535 --> 00:54:38.955
That's right.

00:54:39.464 --> 00:54:41.955
You look at the amount
of commercial fishing

00:54:41.955 --> 00:54:45.194
that we do, larger
grizzly bear population

00:54:45.225 --> 00:54:47.924
that they're bringing
fish out for them

00:54:47.924 --> 00:54:49.605
to eat, because they
say all these grizzly

00:54:49.605 --> 00:54:51.465
bears are starving
in certain areas.

00:54:52.095 --> 00:54:55.005
Like at some point
we have to put rules

00:54:55.005 --> 00:54:57.105
and regulations in
place that will affect

00:54:57.105 --> 00:54:59.145
how we interact with
nature, because we

00:54:59.145 --> 00:55:00.645
are an apex predator.

00:55:00.645 --> 00:55:01.095
That's right.

00:55:01.245 --> 00:55:03.555
And, and, and we're a
part of this, but by

00:55:03.555 --> 00:55:07.665
completely turning a
blind eye and shutting

00:55:07.665 --> 00:55:11.445
down certain areas of
the management, we're

00:55:11.445 --> 00:55:13.695
too far into this game
to be able to do that.

00:55:13.695 --> 00:55:15.615
And we do need to take
a scientific approach

00:55:15.615 --> 00:55:18.555
to be able to manage
this properly for

00:55:18.555 --> 00:55:19.815
generations to come.

00:55:21.135 --> 00:55:24.075
But the messaging and
I, I agree a thousand

00:55:24.075 --> 00:55:26.145
percent on the science,
but the messaging

00:55:26.145 --> 00:55:29.205
I think, has to be
approached from an

00:55:29.205 --> 00:55:30.435
emotional standpoint.

00:55:30.465 --> 00:55:30.645
Yeah.

00:55:30.915 --> 00:55:32.535
If you're having an
emotional argument.

00:55:32.705 --> 00:55:33.155
That's right.

00:55:33.155 --> 00:55:33.365
Yeah.

00:55:33.485 --> 00:55:36.245
I've, I've said in a
conversations to our

00:55:36.245 --> 00:55:38.405
committee that, uh,
we're, we're, we've

00:55:38.405 --> 00:55:40.835
got a scientific, uh,
approach to an emotional

00:55:40.835 --> 00:55:47.175
argument and it's, you
can, uh, You can put it

00:55:47.175 --> 00:55:49.485
in front of people that
it's a scientifically

00:55:49.485 --> 00:55:50.325
managed hunt.

00:55:50.655 --> 00:55:53.745
Like it let's let's let's
step back just a sec.

00:55:54.225 --> 00:55:58.665
If we, we all saw the
polls on the grizzly bear

00:55:58.665 --> 00:56:01.185
hunt, do you support the
grizzly bear trophy hunt?

00:56:02.415 --> 00:56:02.895
Right?

00:56:03.105 --> 00:56:05.715
That's how it was worded
and imagine how it would

00:56:05.715 --> 00:56:08.535
change if it said, do
you support a science

00:56:08.565 --> 00:56:10.155
based grizzly hunt?

00:56:11.265 --> 00:56:14.985
I imagine you might
not have had the 95%

00:56:14.985 --> 00:56:17.985
against and a 5% for you
might have had a 50 50.

00:56:18.555 --> 00:56:21.315
So it's about, it's about
showing that there's

00:56:21.315 --> 00:56:24.165
a science involved in
the hunting process.

00:56:24.495 --> 00:56:27.225
So we still, we S we, we
still have to show that

00:56:27.255 --> 00:56:29.205
it's managed because
as I said, there's,

00:56:29.235 --> 00:56:30.585
there's people out
there that believe it's

00:56:30.585 --> 00:56:31.625
a free for all that.

00:56:31.625 --> 00:56:34.035
There's no licenses,
there's no seasons.

00:56:34.485 --> 00:56:37.185
Uh, as soon as you
hit hope, you can go

00:56:37.185 --> 00:56:39.825
out and just blast
anything you want.

00:56:39.825 --> 00:56:42.225
And there's no
meat requirements.

00:56:42.705 --> 00:56:45.375
There's no age,
age for hunting.

00:56:45.375 --> 00:56:46.785
You can have your two
year old out there

00:56:46.785 --> 00:56:48.615
shooting, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera.

00:56:48.615 --> 00:56:52.575
So we still need to
incorporate some of the

00:56:53.025 --> 00:56:55.155
scientific evidence.

00:56:55.155 --> 00:56:56.295
I won't say it's
an argument cause

00:56:56.295 --> 00:56:57.045
it really isn't.

00:56:57.045 --> 00:56:59.325
It's a scientific
evidence that hunting

00:56:59.325 --> 00:57:03.045
is managed by seasons
and science, but

00:57:03.075 --> 00:57:03.855
you're, you're correct.

00:57:03.855 --> 00:57:06.375
We have to appeal to
that emotional, that

00:57:06.375 --> 00:57:09.105
emotional trigger with
some people pardon the

00:57:09.105 --> 00:57:10.065
power firearms pun.

00:57:10.425 --> 00:57:13.665
Um, but in, in that's
that that's the

00:57:13.665 --> 00:57:14.545
aim of 1Campfire.

00:57:14.565 --> 00:57:19.035
We, we try and show
that science with the

00:57:19.035 --> 00:57:20.595
emotion in there as well.

00:57:20.655 --> 00:57:23.595
And yeah, if we had an
unlimited budget, we'd

00:57:23.595 --> 00:57:27.435
love to dump tens of
thousands of dollars,

00:57:27.585 --> 00:57:30.255
hundreds of thousands of
dollars into retaining

00:57:30.255 --> 00:57:34.290
a lawyer that could just
say, you could go this

00:57:34.290 --> 00:57:37.500
far, but you can't quite
in, you know what I mean?

00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:39.750
And, and push, push
the way they do.

00:57:40.170 --> 00:57:45.060
And, uh, yeah, it's,
it's a tough argument

00:57:45.060 --> 00:57:47.640
to win when are, uh, as
they are going to say,

00:57:47.640 --> 00:57:49.980
our ultimate goal is to
kill something, right?

00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:51.930
Cause that's,
that's what they see

00:57:51.930 --> 00:57:52.650
hunting as right.

00:57:52.650 --> 00:57:53.700
We go out there to kill.

00:57:54.570 --> 00:57:55.740
So it's tough.

00:57:56.180 --> 00:57:57.650
What if the science
is used to make an

00:57:57.650 --> 00:57:58.580
emotional argument?

00:57:58.610 --> 00:58:00.560
Like for example, take
a look at the science

00:58:00.560 --> 00:58:04.190
of what happens if the
wolves abandons put

00:58:04.190 --> 00:58:06.230
on and wolves can't
be hunted anymore.

00:58:06.230 --> 00:58:07.790
What happens to the
caribou population?

00:58:08.060 --> 00:58:08.300
Okay.

00:58:08.330 --> 00:58:09.830
What happens to the
population of other

00:58:09.830 --> 00:58:10.970
animals in those areas?

00:58:11.090 --> 00:58:14.030
And then a year later,
what happens to that

00:58:14.030 --> 00:58:17.150
thriving wolf community
when there isn't

00:58:17.240 --> 00:58:19.790
any food for them to
be able to survive?

00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:23.420
And then sort of look
at it down the way

00:58:23.420 --> 00:58:26.565
from a science-based
approach and then use

00:58:26.565 --> 00:58:27.585
the emotional argument.

00:58:27.915 --> 00:58:30.225
Why would you want to
see all of these wolves

00:58:30.225 --> 00:58:31.245
starved to death?

00:58:31.395 --> 00:58:34.275
Why would you want to
see an entire population

00:58:34.275 --> 00:58:35.805
of caribou eradicated?

00:58:36.015 --> 00:58:37.125
Would you support that?

00:58:37.185 --> 00:58:38.715
Why are you guys
supporting that?

00:58:39.825 --> 00:58:40.905
I dunno, maybe.

00:58:41.165 --> 00:58:41.495
Yeah.

00:58:41.525 --> 00:58:44.795
We've we've we tried
similar, uh, approaches

00:58:44.795 --> 00:58:49.685
like that, but it's,
you'll see Chris and

00:58:49.685 --> 00:58:54.905
his crew immediately re
uh, rebut the science

00:58:54.905 --> 00:58:56.435
that shows that they,
we disagree with that

00:58:56.435 --> 00:58:58.205
science and then all
of a sudden their,

00:58:58.235 --> 00:59:00.125
their crowd goes, Oh
yeah, they're wrong.

00:59:00.305 --> 00:59:02.555
We know that there's,
uh, another article

00:59:02.555 --> 00:59:06.215
coming out shortly
with, uh, that

00:59:06.515 --> 00:59:08.135
against Chris's paper.

00:59:08.555 --> 00:59:11.675
They it's you'll have
your, your pro hunting

00:59:11.915 --> 00:59:14.375
with your pro hunting
scientists on one side.

00:59:14.375 --> 00:59:15.635
And you have your anti
hunting scientists

00:59:15.635 --> 00:59:16.985
on the other side,
and they're forever

00:59:17.435 --> 00:59:19.895
jousting and they're
forever in a tug of war.

00:59:20.375 --> 00:59:25.515
So th th th the, uh,
the, the ugly part about

00:59:25.515 --> 00:59:29.645
using science, uh, to
base 100% of an argument

00:59:29.645 --> 00:59:31.415
on is who science
are you gonna lose?

00:59:32.345 --> 00:59:32.524
Right.

00:59:32.524 --> 00:59:32.734
Right.

00:59:32.734 --> 00:59:34.024
Who science is best.

00:59:34.055 --> 00:59:38.915
So, yeah, it's, it's,
he says, you're putting

00:59:38.915 --> 00:59:40.774
your shoulder into a
rock and you're trying

00:59:40.774 --> 00:59:41.734
to push it up Hill.

00:59:41.795 --> 00:59:44.615
And as I said, we're
never going to change

00:59:44.645 --> 00:59:46.205
the mind of a hundred
percent of the people,

00:59:46.205 --> 00:59:48.154
but if we can change
the mind out of one

00:59:48.154 --> 00:59:50.585
out of 10, that person
can change another.

00:59:50.645 --> 00:59:52.174
And that person that
can change another.

00:59:52.174 --> 00:59:54.245
And we'll, we'll
just keep pushing

00:59:54.245 --> 00:59:54.875
the way we can.

00:59:55.475 --> 00:59:58.785
And yeah, we we'd love
to hear some ideas from,

00:59:58.805 --> 01:00:01.595
uh, from listeners on
what they feel is, uh,

01:00:02.105 --> 01:00:03.515
is a realistic approach.

01:00:04.685 --> 01:00:07.015
The one that we can
put smart goals on and

01:00:07.024 --> 01:00:08.045
stuff like that, right.

01:00:08.975 --> 01:00:12.065
We, we need to be, we
need to throw a wide

01:00:12.065 --> 01:00:14.464
net, but we also need
to dial it down to be

01:00:14.464 --> 01:00:16.265
specific for the cause.

01:00:17.895 --> 01:00:18.955
And the science,
what was it?

01:00:18.975 --> 01:00:21.915
Disraeli was supposed to
have said there's lies,

01:00:22.064 --> 01:00:23.515
damn lies and statistics.

01:00:23.515 --> 01:00:24.765
Statistics, yep.

01:00:25.755 --> 01:00:27.015
Um, okay.

01:00:27.105 --> 01:00:29.294
Like I said, had some
thoughts on it, had

01:00:29.294 --> 01:00:31.064
an idea, definitely
didn't have it

01:00:31.095 --> 01:00:32.075
fully fleshed out.

01:00:32.085 --> 01:00:32.774
Appreciate it.

01:00:33.375 --> 01:00:35.904
And I mean, this
is everyone's.

01:00:36.615 --> 01:00:37.834
Oh,  yeah.

01:00:37.834 --> 01:00:41.775
Everyone's in everybody's
interest to put

01:00:41.775 --> 01:00:43.005
their heads together
and think on it.

01:00:43.225 --> 01:00:46.295
Absolutely it is because
it's the same battles

01:00:46.325 --> 01:00:47.945
affecting the firearms
community right now.

01:00:48.365 --> 01:00:50.705
You have your,
your3Gun and your,

01:00:50.815 --> 01:00:52.175
your IPSC and all that.

01:00:52.175 --> 01:00:52.475
Right.

01:00:52.475 --> 01:00:56.645
You know, you don't,
uh, when you can't

01:00:56.645 --> 01:00:59.435
even come together
on, well, what's, this

01:00:59.495 --> 01:01:01.205
can put you in a spot
here what's better a

01:01:01.205 --> 01:01:02.735
Glock or 1911, right.

01:01:02.735 --> 01:01:03.995
Like, right, right.

01:01:04.025 --> 01:01:05.645
Oh God, well, no,
no, no, I like that.

01:01:05.645 --> 01:01:06.665
I like that, right?

01:01:06.755 --> 01:01:07.655
No, it's a firearm.

01:01:07.985 --> 01:01:08.795
You take one away.

01:01:08.795 --> 01:01:10.525
The other one's going
to follow, right.

01:01:10.525 --> 01:01:10.795
Right.

01:01:10.925 --> 01:01:13.655
And that's, we're in the
same sort of argument and

01:01:13.745 --> 01:01:16.415
it's, it's, it's tough.

01:01:16.475 --> 01:01:16.955
I don't know.

01:01:17.135 --> 01:01:17.585
I don't know.

01:01:17.675 --> 01:01:18.545
It's, it's tough.

01:01:19.305 --> 01:01:21.515
I definitely think a
reframe needs to happen

01:01:21.725 --> 01:01:22.715
on the firearm side.

01:01:22.715 --> 01:01:23.555
That always gets me.

01:01:23.885 --> 01:01:25.865
You say Glock or 1911,
but what's the difference

01:01:25.865 --> 01:01:27.905
between a rifle, shotgun
or a pistol other than

01:01:27.905 --> 01:01:30.095
her size, your rifle
is going to do much

01:01:30.095 --> 01:01:34.085
more damage than your
pistol is, but it's

01:01:34.770 --> 01:01:37.290
a mental perception
around firearms based

01:01:37.290 --> 01:01:39.960
on media and based
what's been put forward.

01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:42.210
I think we're at a
unique, we do have

01:01:42.210 --> 01:01:45.180
a unique opportunity
with COVID and with

01:01:45.570 --> 01:01:48.660
the current state of
affairs here, with the

01:01:48.660 --> 01:01:51.120
way everyone's thinking
about stockpiling and

01:01:51.120 --> 01:01:53.730
some sufficiency to
be able to have a more

01:01:53.730 --> 01:01:55.860
receptive audience,
people who might

01:01:55.860 --> 01:01:57.960
otherwise say, what do
I care about hunting to

01:01:57.960 --> 01:01:58.980
hold, hold on a second.

01:01:59.610 --> 01:02:01.680
Maybe I, maybe I want
to have some animals

01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:03.930
around here for my
kids to be able to see.

01:02:03.930 --> 01:02:06.720
And maybe that is a
more sustainable way

01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:08.100
of our livelihood.

01:02:08.110 --> 01:02:10.080
So I think that
might present

01:02:10.080 --> 01:02:10.920
something as well.

01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:12.270
I don't know.

01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:15.260
It's a tough one to get
out there to the big, uh,

01:02:15.630 --> 01:02:16.910
the big picture, right?

01:02:16.910 --> 01:02:19.160
When you can't get media
to cover the good side

01:02:19.160 --> 01:02:20.150
of what it is, right.

01:02:20.150 --> 01:02:22.490
That they'll grab
on to the negative

01:02:22.490 --> 01:02:23.270
of the poachers.

01:02:23.720 --> 01:02:25.340
Oh, he shot two moose.

01:02:25.430 --> 01:02:27.200
Well, you know what, if
you look at a hundred

01:02:27.200 --> 01:02:29.780
thousand hunters, 98,000
of them are going to

01:02:29.780 --> 01:02:30.710
condemn them for it.

01:02:31.850 --> 01:02:32.210
Right.

01:02:32.540 --> 01:02:35.265
But, you know, latch
onto those, those two.

01:02:36.345 --> 01:02:37.725
So it's tough.

01:02:38.285 --> 01:02:40.775
Well, I'm going to put
links up on our website

01:02:40.805 --> 01:02:43.325
and on social media where
people can learn more

01:02:43.325 --> 01:02:45.395
about The wild Sheep
Society, learn more

01:02:45.395 --> 01:02:48.455
about how they can submit
their letter in and be

01:02:48.455 --> 01:02:49.685
involved with their MLA.

01:02:50.315 --> 01:02:53.915
Uh, there, I was talking
with Jenny Ly, she

01:02:53.915 --> 01:02:56.495
was with Backcountry
Hunters and Anglers.

01:02:56.525 --> 01:02:56.945
Yes.

01:02:57.005 --> 01:03:00.335
And, uh, she works on
the social media side

01:03:00.395 --> 01:03:03.395
and she mentioned that,
you know, Hey, if you

01:03:03.395 --> 01:03:05.735
got a small social media
feed, you only have like

01:03:05.735 --> 01:03:07.325
25 friends on there.

01:03:07.475 --> 01:03:09.275
Don't think you can't
make a difference, the

01:03:09.275 --> 01:03:11.525
algorithm on social
media is set up in such

01:03:11.525 --> 01:03:13.385
a way that it wants
to give you a wider

01:03:13.385 --> 01:03:15.845
play to essentially
draw you into the

01:03:15.955 --> 01:03:17.435
social media structure.

01:03:17.970 --> 01:03:20.010
So tell your
story, right?

01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:22.140
Maybe not the grip,
maybe not the gripping

01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:24.420
grins right, but tell
the story about the

01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:25.500
blisters on your feet.

01:03:25.530 --> 01:03:26.700
Tell a story
similar to what camp

01:03:26.700 --> 01:03:27.960
1Campfire is doing.

01:03:29.220 --> 01:03:31.560
And then there was,
um, it was Jesse

01:03:31.560 --> 01:03:35.490
Zeeman who was talking
about, go see, meet

01:03:35.490 --> 01:03:36.810
with your MLA, right?

01:03:36.870 --> 01:03:39.940
Manage your social
feed, uh, venison

01:03:39.940 --> 01:03:42.210
diplomacy, share your
meat with your neighbors.

01:03:42.390 --> 01:03:44.850
And that's where Shane
Mahoney says on The

01:03:44.850 --> 01:03:46.140
Wild Harvest Initiative.

01:03:46.170 --> 01:03:49.830
It's a, the, the
food is the binding,

01:03:49.830 --> 01:03:51.480
the end product, the
end result of it.

01:03:51.870 --> 01:03:52.080
Yep.

01:03:52.140 --> 01:03:54.750
And finally be a
mentor, take people out.

01:03:55.100 --> 01:03:55.310
Yeah.

01:03:55.850 --> 01:03:57.620
I got a buddy
buddy of mine.

01:03:57.650 --> 01:04:00.110
He and I actually went
to kindergarten together.

01:04:00.350 --> 01:04:02.480
And so we're going
back 40 some odd years.

01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:05.570
He lives in Delta, so I.

01:04:05.620 --> 01:04:06.530
Right next door with us.

01:04:07.100 --> 01:04:07.640
Oh yeah.

01:04:07.670 --> 01:04:07.940
Yeah.

01:04:08.510 --> 01:04:12.230
So, but three years
ago I posted a picture

01:04:12.230 --> 01:04:14.990
of a bear and I get a
private message from him.

01:04:15.915 --> 01:04:17.445
And usually it's.

01:04:17.775 --> 01:04:19.815
So I post a picture of
a bear and if I get a

01:04:19.815 --> 01:04:22.725
message about it, it's
why'd you do that, right?

01:04:23.315 --> 01:04:24.195
And it gives me a chance.

01:04:24.195 --> 01:04:26.445
It opens the door, but
he approached me and he

01:04:26.445 --> 01:04:29.265
says, so I've always been
curious about hunting.

01:04:31.455 --> 01:04:31.875
Right?

01:04:31.935 --> 01:04:33.765
Outcome my claws, so
to speak, see if I can

01:04:33.765 --> 01:04:34.785
sink, sink them in.

01:04:35.175 --> 01:04:36.645
We were in
cadets together.

01:04:36.645 --> 01:04:38.385
We did survival
school, we did all the

01:04:38.385 --> 01:04:39.255
fun stuff together.

01:04:39.255 --> 01:04:41.955
We camp you name it,
but we hadn't seen

01:04:41.955 --> 01:04:44.655
each other, in person,
in probably 25 years.

01:04:45.495 --> 01:04:49.725
So I sent him a care
package of bear.

01:04:50.445 --> 01:04:53.565
And so that's three
years ago, long story

01:04:53.565 --> 01:04:56.865
short, this will be
his third year of

01:04:56.865 --> 01:05:00.675
COVID, uh, disappears
or restrictions open

01:05:00.675 --> 01:05:02.835
up of him coming
up here hunting.

01:05:02.865 --> 01:05:05.295
He's now got his CORE,
he's taken three bears.

01:05:05.775 --> 01:05:08.655
Uh, he's got, he's
an IPSC shooter now,

01:05:08.685 --> 01:05:09.765
he's got his PAL.

01:05:10.140 --> 01:05:13.200
So that all it takes is
that opening that door

01:05:13.200 --> 01:05:15.330
for that conversation
and reacting right.

01:05:15.510 --> 01:05:17.310
He's written a story
about his first hunt

01:05:17.310 --> 01:05:20.370
with  for 1Campfire,
he shares his story.

01:05:20.370 --> 01:05:23.940
He's got his neighbor now
who's got his CORE, never

01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:27.810
hunted, but opened that
door with a go, go pound

01:05:27.810 --> 01:05:30.600
on the door and here's
some game meat and his,

01:05:30.600 --> 01:05:33.120
uh, the neighbor's wife
said, don't, you dare

01:05:33.120 --> 01:05:34.740
bring bear over here.

01:05:35.100 --> 01:05:35.670
Guess what?

01:05:35.970 --> 01:05:37.770
Now it's a staple
in their house.

01:05:38.930 --> 01:05:41.390
So you open door
to conversation.

01:05:41.390 --> 01:05:42.830
And even if
they're friends.

01:05:43.029 --> 01:05:43.460
That's right.

01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:44.080
Sorry, go ahead.

01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:44.910
That's right.

01:05:44.910 --> 01:05:46.610
Open up that
conversation, right?

01:05:46.610 --> 01:05:47.390
Open that door.

01:05:47.450 --> 01:05:50.450
Uh, venison diplomacies
you can't say it any

01:05:50.450 --> 01:05:51.290
better than that, right?

01:05:51.680 --> 01:05:56.210
You never know, uh, uh,
who a hunter is, right?

01:05:56.210 --> 01:05:57.560
They're not always
what you think.

01:05:57.560 --> 01:05:58.790
And that's one of
the campaigns we

01:05:58.800 --> 01:05:59.300
got going with.

01:05:59.300 --> 01:06:00.020
I Hunt, right.

01:06:00.470 --> 01:06:02.750
It's uh, for, for
1Campfire, it's called

01:06:02.750 --> 01:06:05.120
I Hunt and it's meant
to blow stereotypes

01:06:05.120 --> 01:06:05.810
out of the water.

01:06:06.435 --> 01:06:08.415
So check it out, check
it out on our Facebook.

01:06:08.415 --> 01:06:10.904
You'll see a pin post
there and you watch it

01:06:10.904 --> 01:06:12.615
and you'll go, Oh my God.

01:06:12.765 --> 01:06:15.705
I had no idea that
person was a hunter

01:06:15.734 --> 01:06:17.984
and it may, it's meant
to make you go, Hmm,

01:06:18.404 --> 01:06:20.055
scratch your head and go.

01:06:20.325 --> 01:06:22.305
I wonder if that person's
a hunter, I wonder if

01:06:22.305 --> 01:06:25.245
that person's a hunter
and we've, uh, I actually

01:06:25.245 --> 01:06:27.134
saw the first draft
of our latest one that

01:06:27.134 --> 01:06:28.245
I storyboarded today.

01:06:28.274 --> 01:06:29.714
It's, I'm stoked for it.

01:06:30.375 --> 01:06:31.845
It's going to have
some huge outreach.

01:06:31.845 --> 01:06:34.634
So we're, we're building,
building outreach

01:06:34.634 --> 01:06:35.325
that way as well.

01:06:35.325 --> 01:06:37.185
So yeah, as you said,
venison, diplomacy

01:06:37.305 --> 01:06:38.205
get people out there.

01:06:38.674 --> 01:06:39.424
That's a good idea.

01:06:39.424 --> 01:06:40.654
You know, bring it
out of the shadows.

01:06:40.654 --> 01:06:44.345
And even if other people
aren't interested in

01:06:44.345 --> 01:06:46.515
getting into hunting,
their friends and

01:06:46.515 --> 01:06:48.544
family, their friends
and family, we'll say,

01:06:48.544 --> 01:06:50.975
Hey, this individual
comports himself in

01:06:50.975 --> 01:06:51.935
an admirable way.

01:06:51.995 --> 01:06:53.884
I like how this person
is and their daily

01:06:53.884 --> 01:06:55.625
life and they happened
to be a hunter.

01:06:55.774 --> 01:06:57.935
I now know what a
hunter, a good person.

01:06:58.055 --> 01:07:00.455
And that's exactly what
I, the I hunt campaign

01:07:00.455 --> 01:07:02.615
for 1Campfire is about,
it's about showing,

01:07:03.290 --> 01:07:06.630
showing the closing,
the closing line is

01:07:06.630 --> 01:07:08.760
if I say I hunt, am
I what you'd picture?

01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:11.910
We're not as different
as you may think it's

01:07:11.910 --> 01:07:12.780
meant to make you go.

01:07:13.130 --> 01:07:13.520
Hmm.

01:07:14.660 --> 01:07:15.050
Interesting.

01:07:15.050 --> 01:07:15.810
I had no idea.

01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:19.220
An interesting endeavor.

01:07:19.220 --> 01:07:20.990
Is there anything else we
should talk about before

01:07:20.990 --> 01:07:22.670
we start looking at
we're . Wrapping up here?

01:07:24.020 --> 01:07:24.560
What do you think, Greg?

01:07:25.310 --> 01:07:27.840
But I think we've pretty
much covered ActNow.

01:07:28.250 --> 01:07:31.460
So, Oh yeah, yeah,
no, uh, I appreciate

01:07:31.460 --> 01:07:33.260
you reaching out to
us and, uh, giving

01:07:33.260 --> 01:07:35.120
us, uh, a sounding
board, so to speak.

01:07:35.630 --> 01:07:37.790
100%, I appreciate you
listened to some of my

01:07:37.790 --> 01:07:40.450
harebrained thoughts
that I have while I

01:07:40.450 --> 01:07:42.080
sit up late at night
trying to think of

01:07:42.080 --> 01:07:44.570
solutions for things,
but hopefully somebody

01:07:44.570 --> 01:07:46.300
else out there might say,
you know what Travis,

01:07:46.300 --> 01:07:48.020
you're kind of on the
right track, but tweak

01:07:48.020 --> 01:07:50.120
it or have a completely
different idea.

01:07:50.120 --> 01:07:51.800
And if they do have
an idea, how do

01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:52.490
they contact you?

01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:58.960
You can email us at exec
exec@wildsheepsociety.com

01:07:59.270 --> 01:08:03.160
and put in the, the, the
header, uh, Silvercore

01:08:03.180 --> 01:08:07.470
Podcast or, or whatever
expletive you want.

01:08:07.590 --> 01:08:08.400
You're way off base.

01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:09.570
Just feedback is great.

01:08:09.570 --> 01:08:09.690
Yep.

01:08:10.230 --> 01:08:12.600
Reach out to us on
Facebook, Instagram,

01:08:12.630 --> 01:08:13.110
you name it.

01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:15.630
We're available, and we'd
love to hear feedback

01:08:15.630 --> 01:08:18.810
of where you think we
need to go with this.

01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:19.529
Any ideas?

01:08:20.210 --> 01:08:20.450
Yep.

01:08:20.510 --> 01:08:23.090
We're we're open for
any ideas anybody's

01:08:23.090 --> 01:08:25.640
got, we want to hear
them because we're drums

01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:28.200
like sometimes too.

01:08:28.850 --> 01:08:31.130
Gentlemen, thank you
very much for taking

01:08:31.130 --> 01:08:33.240
the time to be on The
Silvercore Podcast and

01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:35.149
sharing this important
information with our

01:08:36.510 --> 01:08:49.390
Thanks again Travis.

01:08:49.390 --> 01:08:49.850
Thanks Travis.