WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:17.877 --> 00:00:23.067 Welcome to a very special five part series from Simple Faith Believers 00:00:23.067 --> 00:00:26.877 and churchgoers have heard over and over again of the importance of 00:00:26.877 --> 00:00:29.007 sharing and understanding your faith. 00:00:29.847 --> 00:00:35.457 This is called apologetics, and for some of you, apologetics may be your thing. 00:00:36.087 --> 00:00:40.147 It may be an area of interest and practice for you, but for the rest 00:00:40.147 --> 00:00:43.177 of us, apologetics can feel off. 00:00:43.807 --> 00:00:46.687 It can feel more like trying to argue someone to heaven 00:00:46.747 --> 00:00:48.367 rather than lead them to Jesus. 00:00:49.207 --> 00:00:53.377 In this series, we wanna look into the question, what if you're right? 00:00:54.247 --> 00:00:58.357 What if apologetics, as we know it and have heard it before, 00:00:58.747 --> 00:01:00.367 actually is doing it the hard way? 00:01:01.267 --> 00:01:06.127 If that's true, is there a way that might make sharing your faith? 00:01:06.472 --> 00:01:07.552 A little more simple. 00:01:25.606 --> 00:01:29.326 Rusty George: conventional wisdom often dictates that there's some kind of an 00:01:29.326 --> 00:01:34.066 engagement of intellect or presentation of carefully honed arguments, uh, 00:01:34.516 --> 00:01:39.046 presenting some kind of irrefutable evidence in order to help change 00:01:39.046 --> 00:01:41.326 somebody's viewpoint or worldview. 00:01:41.756 --> 00:01:44.876 Well, these are some of the questions we're gonna ask over the next five 00:01:44.876 --> 00:01:47.756 weeks, and that is, is that the only way. 00:01:47.801 --> 00:01:50.261 Because many of us have wrestled with sharing our faith. 00:01:50.291 --> 00:01:53.801 We've heard great commission being preached at us about how 00:01:53.801 --> 00:01:57.161 you should have a burden for lost friends and lost loved ones. 00:01:57.521 --> 00:01:59.561 Uh, you should be better at sharing your faith. 00:02:00.071 --> 00:02:01.631 And as if it wasn't hard enough. 00:02:01.631 --> 00:02:05.861 Now we have a culture that's deeply divided around politics and values, and 00:02:05.861 --> 00:02:10.001 it feels as if there's only one thing people in our culture can agree on, 00:02:10.271 --> 00:02:14.711 and that is that they don't agree and they don't necessarily enjoy church. 00:02:15.011 --> 00:02:18.946 So how do we truly connect with those whose convictions stand 00:02:18.946 --> 00:02:20.706 and start contrast to our own? 00:02:21.337 --> 00:02:25.207 James Browning: Our investigation begins with a seemingly simple idea 00:02:25.987 --> 00:02:30.667 that genuine human connection may be a crucial first step in navigating 00:02:30.847 --> 00:02:33.217 the complex landscape of belief. 00:02:35.857 --> 00:02:37.927 Rusty George: You know, there are many branches of apologetics that have 00:02:37.927 --> 00:02:43.837 developed over the past 2000 years from classical to evidential to cultural. 00:02:44.392 --> 00:02:47.542 And over the course of this podcast, I featured many experts in these 00:02:47.542 --> 00:02:50.482 fields, including some of the leading experts on apologetics 00:02:50.482 --> 00:02:52.222 like Sean McDowell and Lee Strobel. 00:02:52.732 --> 00:02:56.272 These brilliant men and women have helped our generation build out a solid case for 00:02:56.272 --> 00:03:00.562 Christianity and the solid foundation of reason and truth that our faith rests on. 00:03:01.162 --> 00:03:05.092 But over the past several years, our culture has shifted pretty dramatically. 00:03:05.392 --> 00:03:10.012 And if you're like me, you may have wondered what actually works now. 00:03:10.337 --> 00:03:15.137 You may have found that an argument in a world of documentary people, uh, no 00:03:15.137 --> 00:03:18.137 matter how solid or reasonable, it's just kinda like a drop in the ocean. 00:03:18.587 --> 00:03:22.337 People spend all day arguing online, arguing about politics, arguing 00:03:22.337 --> 00:03:24.407 about sports, arguing about anything. 00:03:24.407 --> 00:03:28.067 So today I'd like to see if we can share our faith the simple 00:03:28.067 --> 00:03:30.382 way through relational apologetics 00:03:31.936 --> 00:03:34.456 James Browning: relational apologetics is the idea of building 00:03:34.456 --> 00:03:38.356 trust and understanding with others before presenting arguments. 00:03:38.956 --> 00:03:41.776 Instead of spending all my time trying to ask someone to make a 00:03:41.776 --> 00:03:46.786 leap, I'm going to spend it building a bridge to get a clearer picture. 00:03:47.176 --> 00:03:49.726 Let's look at the history of evangelism. 00:03:52.149 --> 00:03:56.919 Much of our modern view of evangelism in general, and apologetics specifically 00:03:57.219 --> 00:03:59.589 comes from the Roman way of evangelism. 00:04:00.249 --> 00:04:04.749 Author George Hunter says that for the early church Romans evangelism 00:04:04.989 --> 00:04:08.469 meant rationally proving the validity of Christianity's truth claims. 00:04:09.264 --> 00:04:12.804 Hunter suggests that the Roman approach favored words, propositions, 00:04:12.804 --> 00:04:17.694 concepts, and theological abstractions appealing more to the left brain as 00:04:17.694 --> 00:04:21.204 Rome and the Roman way of thinking expanded throughout the Western world. 00:04:21.204 --> 00:04:26.537 Christianity spread with it, but in the mid fifth century, the Roman 00:04:26.537 --> 00:04:31.187 Empire began to fall, and again, along with it, Christianity began to 00:04:31.187 --> 00:04:33.047 decline in much of the Western world. 00:04:33.737 --> 00:04:38.357 However, there was one region largely untouched by Roman influence, where 00:04:38.357 --> 00:04:40.847 Christianity began to spread and flourish. 00:04:41.537 --> 00:04:43.607 That was thanks to the efforts of St. 00:04:43.607 --> 00:04:44.117 Patrick. 00:04:47.816 --> 00:04:51.656 While the Romans emphasized a need to fully accept the gospel and its teachings 00:04:51.656 --> 00:04:55.976 in order to join the Christian community, the Celts took the opposite approach. 00:04:56.426 --> 00:04:56.696 St. 00:04:56.696 --> 00:05:01.136 Patrick and his later converts would create communities with the explicit 00:05:01.136 --> 00:05:06.026 goal of inviting non-believers to join the community there, they 00:05:06.026 --> 00:05:10.046 welcomed them and through song and story and metaphor, created an 00:05:10.046 --> 00:05:12.086 environment where belief could happen. 00:05:12.836 --> 00:05:16.766 The goal was to create the fertile soil where the seeds of the truth of the 00:05:16.766 --> 00:05:19.256 gospel could flourish, and it worked. 00:05:20.809 --> 00:05:25.459 That, and I've interviewed far more than a thousand first generation 00:05:25.459 --> 00:05:27.199 converts out of secularity. 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:32.869 And so my own data led me to the conclusion that most people who become 00:05:32.869 --> 00:05:35.989 Christians do not decide to believe. 00:05:37.549 --> 00:05:44.779 They discover that they believe, and that faith is a gift. 00:05:46.144 --> 00:05:52.339 In Ephesians two, eight and nine, uh, I think all of the exes tell us that, 00:05:52.339 --> 00:06:00.259 that, uh, golden text affirms that both grace and faith are the gift of God. 00:06:01.939 --> 00:06:09.079 And, uh, I felt like the ancient Celtic Christian movement, uh, 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:16.869 understood that and then as the culture moved incrementally from 00:06:16.869 --> 00:06:23.979 modernity to post modernity, the Celtic uh, perspective, uh, seemed to 00:06:23.979 --> 00:06:27.459 be more astonishingly relevant okay. 00:06:28.299 --> 00:06:32.109 So if, if I can take from your book what it was saying is the Roman model 00:06:32.379 --> 00:06:38.109 demanded, um, uh, an ascent to a certain body of knowledge and then you joined Yes. 00:06:38.109 --> 00:06:41.109 Versus the Celtic model where you became part of a community. 00:06:41.709 --> 00:06:42.279 Exactly. 00:06:42.369 --> 00:06:48.819 The Roman model, uh, which has been widely assumed in Protestant Christianity, 00:06:49.749 --> 00:06:54.909 is that you communicate the gospel and when people say they believe you, 00:06:54.909 --> 00:06:56.529 then invite them into the fellowship. 00:06:57.849 --> 00:07:00.399 But, uh, the Celtic model say no. 00:07:01.359 --> 00:07:05.889 You look for people who are receptive and you, uh, there's some public 00:07:05.889 --> 00:07:10.389 communication of the gospel, of course, and some people surface as interested. 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:13.149 You welcome them into the fellowship. 00:07:13.299 --> 00:07:15.729 They belong before they believe. 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:22.389 And increasingly in post modernity, it seems like most people have to 00:07:22.389 --> 00:07:25.689 experience it that way, or they might never experience it at all. 00:07:27.354 --> 00:07:32.904 And the earlier way in some circles that this was framed is for most people, the 00:07:32.904 --> 00:07:40.104 Christian faith is even more caught than taught, and they catch it from being in 00:07:40.104 --> 00:07:45.444 small groups and other forms of Christian community, including worship, et cetera. 00:07:46.044 --> 00:07:52.104 Uh, the evil one does not stack secular society on the side of many 00:07:52.104 --> 00:07:54.924 people finding justifying grace. 00:07:55.494 --> 00:07:57.174 Apart from the community of faith. 00:07:57.934 --> 00:08:00.729 Rusty George: Emerging from this understanding is the concept of. 00:08:00.729 --> 00:08:05.374 Of relational apologetics, a paradigm shift that prioritizes 00:08:05.404 --> 00:08:07.564 connection before conviction. 00:08:08.164 --> 00:08:12.214 This approach contrasts with the traditional Roman way of believe first, 00:08:12.274 --> 00:08:17.344 then belong, where doctrinal agreement often proceeds community integration. 00:08:17.884 --> 00:08:20.794 Instead, relational apologetics champions what has been termed 00:08:20.794 --> 00:08:24.124 the Celtic Way belong to believe. 00:08:24.994 --> 00:08:28.774 Imagine a community extending an unconditional welcome offering 00:08:28.774 --> 00:08:32.554 support and genuine friendship, creating a context where questions 00:08:32.554 --> 00:08:34.594 about belief can surface organically. 00:08:35.254 --> 00:08:38.614 The focus here is on cultivating trust and understanding as 00:08:38.764 --> 00:08:43.834 foundational elements proceeding the presentation of theological claims. 00:08:47.924 --> 00:08:51.164 According to a study by Barna, 12% of believers claim they had 00:08:51.164 --> 00:08:53.684 the gift of service, 10% claim. 00:08:53.684 --> 00:08:57.524 They had the gift of encouragement, only 3% claim they had the gift 00:08:57.524 --> 00:09:02.414 of hospitality, but just 1% claim they had the gift of evangelism. 00:09:03.074 --> 00:09:06.824 Maybe traditional apologetics can feel like a challenge because 00:09:06.824 --> 00:09:08.954 you've been trying to unlock a door with the wrong key. 00:09:09.434 --> 00:09:12.854 This time, let's try the key that God made you to use. 00:09:15.844 --> 00:09:18.694 James Browning: Hannah is a staff member at a church in Southern California. 00:09:19.204 --> 00:09:23.644 She and her husband had recently moved there from across the country, and the 00:09:23.644 --> 00:09:28.234 majority of the people that she were also on staff or attended the church. 00:09:29.104 --> 00:09:33.274 At the beginning of the new year, her lead pastor started a one life 00:09:33.274 --> 00:09:36.934 campaign encouraging everyone in the congregation to pray for and reach 00:09:36.934 --> 00:09:39.184 out to one life with the gospel. 00:09:40.204 --> 00:09:45.244 Hannah worked with preschoolers and does not identify as being gifted in vandalism. 00:09:45.604 --> 00:09:50.644 Though she isn't shy about her faith, even still, she didn't know anyone well enough 00:09:50.644 --> 00:09:52.894 yet to really start evangelizing them. 00:09:53.672 --> 00:09:56.522 Hannah Browning: My husband and I were in a small group One week, the 00:09:56.522 --> 00:10:01.112 leader of the group asked us to pray for a friend that was her one life. 00:10:01.622 --> 00:10:04.292 This other woman was going through a rough divorce. 00:10:04.502 --> 00:10:08.492 Her kids and our small group host kids were friends, and God had 00:10:08.492 --> 00:10:10.532 placed her on our leader's heart. 00:10:11.102 --> 00:10:15.122 So my husband and I decided that we were going to adopt her one life, 00:10:15.602 --> 00:10:17.192 and so we started praying for her. 00:10:17.807 --> 00:10:18.347 Soon. 00:10:18.347 --> 00:10:22.487 Our leader invited her to our small group and we all became friends. 00:10:22.877 --> 00:10:25.847 Just a few short weeks later, she asked Jesus into her heart. 00:10:28.716 --> 00:10:32.106 James Browning: At first, Hannah said that it felt like cheating, like they 00:10:32.106 --> 00:10:35.946 needed to find their own one life and that maybe they were stealing someone else's. 00:10:36.846 --> 00:10:39.306 But the more they thought about it, and the more they discussed it with their 00:10:39.306 --> 00:10:42.906 group, the more they realized that this was how all relationships work. 00:10:43.476 --> 00:10:46.566 This is how their small group worked when they moved and joined the group. 00:10:47.511 --> 00:10:51.711 We are constantly being invited into friend groups or families, or inviting 00:10:51.711 --> 00:10:53.451 others into our groups and families. 00:10:54.231 --> 00:10:57.951 Why are we trying to do it all apart from one of the key benefits of 00:10:57.951 --> 00:11:00.381 Christianity, which is Godly community? 00:11:00.381 --> 00:11:00.411 I. 00:11:03.151 --> 00:11:04.951 Rusty George: The power of authentic Christian community 00:11:04.951 --> 00:11:09.361 emerges as a significant, often unspoken form of apologetic. 00:11:10.541 --> 00:11:14.441 For individuals who have never encountered tangible expressions of Christian Love and 00:11:14.441 --> 00:11:19.691 care, the lived reality of a supportive and inclusive community can serve as 00:11:19.691 --> 00:11:24.881 a far more compelling introduction to faith than any philosophical treaties. 00:11:26.051 --> 00:11:30.011 Thinkers like Ooz Guinness underscore the reality that belief is frequently shaped 00:11:30.011 --> 00:11:32.171 and sustained within social frameworks. 00:11:32.711 --> 00:11:34.871 Personal experience often echoes this truth. 00:11:35.276 --> 00:11:39.026 The positive influence of a friend who holds a particular belief can be a 00:11:39.026 --> 00:11:41.816 powerful catalyst for further inquiry. 00:11:43.136 --> 00:11:45.236 James Browning: Yet a critical question arises. 00:11:45.746 --> 00:11:50.876 Does this emphasis on connection risk diluting the core tenets of faith? 00:11:52.091 --> 00:11:56.501 Is being nice, a substitute for the clear communication of the truth. 00:11:57.941 --> 00:12:00.881 This concern is acknowledged directly within the framework 00:12:01.001 --> 00:12:02.891 of relational apologetics. 00:12:03.291 --> 00:12:06.266 It is crucial to understand that this approach is not a 00:12:06.266 --> 00:12:08.066 watered down version of belief. 00:12:08.786 --> 00:12:12.806 But rather the essential groundwork for the effective communication of truth, 00:12:13.376 --> 00:12:17.036 it is learning someone's language in order to tell them the good news. 00:12:18.402 --> 00:12:22.602 Greg Cocal astutely points out kindness alone is insufficient. 00:12:22.842 --> 00:12:26.772 It must be coupled with an appropriate communication of the truth. 00:12:27.415 --> 00:12:31.765 Greg Koukl: This is one reason why I think it, it's almost dangerous for people to. 00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:36.470 Lean too heavily on that read, which is gonna break on 'em because, oh, you 00:12:36.470 --> 00:12:39.380 can't reason somebody into the, well, there's a lot of people that need that 00:12:39.380 --> 00:12:41.780 kind of thing to remove the obstacles 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:45.690 keep in mind too, any of your friends that are listening to the show that 00:12:45.690 --> 00:12:48.630 have skeptical or non-Christian friends that have pushed back 00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:55.170 against Christianity, I guarantee you everyone is pushed back for a reason. 00:12:55.250 --> 00:12:59.870 They will say, well, this bothers me, this and whatever it happens to be, hypocrites 00:12:59.870 --> 00:13:04.160 in the church, or, uh, problem of evil, or Jesus being the only way or can't 00:13:04.160 --> 00:13:05.300 trust the Bible right down the line. 00:13:05.300 --> 00:13:10.130 But these are all reasons that they, that, that they are not willing to 00:13:10.130 --> 00:13:11.930 take the Christian message seriously. 00:13:12.030 --> 00:13:13.320 Now I think we understand that there's. 00:13:13.455 --> 00:13:16.635 Another reason that goes deeper than that, that has to do with rebellion and 00:13:16.635 --> 00:13:19.905 sin, but at least this, these are the first things we encounter, and unless 00:13:19.905 --> 00:13:23.235 we remove, it's not always the case. 00:13:23.235 --> 00:13:27.585 But often, unless we remove those barriers, we can't get to the real issue, 00:13:27.585 --> 00:13:29.445 which is their rebellion against God. 00:13:29.815 --> 00:13:29.875 Yeah. 00:13:30.025 --> 00:13:32.725 One qualifier here though, we, we lower the bar for our 00:13:32.725 --> 00:13:34.135 engagements with other people. 00:13:34.135 --> 00:13:35.965 Let's just be friendly, let's be warm with them. 00:13:35.965 --> 00:13:37.255 Let's build relationship. 00:13:37.555 --> 00:13:42.205 And, uh, it doesn't mean though that we substitute being warm and friendly for a 00:13:42.205 --> 00:13:45.035 substantive communication of the gospel. 00:13:45.125 --> 00:13:45.245 Right. 00:13:45.335 --> 00:13:49.865 Uh, and what I say to folk is, if you think that being nice. 00:13:50.250 --> 00:13:54.120 People is, is going to be the way that you're gonna win them to Christ. 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:55.830 And, and you kind of stop there. 00:13:56.010 --> 00:13:59.824 Just keep in mind you'll never be able to, to out nice a Mormon, so 00:13:59.824 --> 00:14:03.544 this is why we want to make sure that our, our, our gracious. 00:14:04.394 --> 00:14:09.554 Character and demeanor and involvement with them is coupled with an appropriate, 00:14:09.854 --> 00:14:11.894 um, communication of the truth. 00:14:12.944 --> 00:14:15.614 James Browning: The strategic imperative lies in the order, 00:14:16.424 --> 00:14:18.884 establishing a foundation of connection. 00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:22.649 Creates an environment where truth is able to be received and 00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:24.509 understood with greater openness. 00:14:24.753 --> 00:14:28.323 Rusty George: Thus the act of sharing one's faith can be reframed. 00:14:28.833 --> 00:14:33.093 Not as a forceful imposition of doctrine, but more of an invitation. 00:14:33.513 --> 00:14:36.693 An invitation to engage in meaningful dialogue and then become 00:14:36.693 --> 00:14:38.223 part of a supportive community. 00:14:38.793 --> 00:14:42.813 This subtle but significant shift in perspective can alleviate the 00:14:42.813 --> 00:14:46.023 pressure for those sharing their beliefs and reduce the sense of 00:14:46.023 --> 00:14:48.183 threat for those exploring new ideas. 00:14:49.023 --> 00:14:52.683 In Luke 15, one of my favorite chapters in the entire Bible, we 00:14:52.683 --> 00:14:54.333 read the parables of Lost Things. 00:14:54.333 --> 00:14:57.063 We've got the Lost Sheep, the Lost Coin, the Prodigal Son. 00:14:57.543 --> 00:15:01.953 In each of these three parables, the emphasis is not on finding the lost thing. 00:15:02.223 --> 00:15:06.033 The emphasis is no command for you to find the lost thing. 00:15:06.363 --> 00:15:08.613 The parables are all about the party. 00:15:08.943 --> 00:15:13.083 When the lost thing is found, they're in response to Jesus, welcoming 00:15:13.083 --> 00:15:14.493 and eating with the sinners. 00:15:15.048 --> 00:15:17.928 The Pharisees were questioning Jesus' efforts to build a relationship with 00:15:17.928 --> 00:15:19.608 people who didn't live like him. 00:15:20.088 --> 00:15:24.438 And in each one of the stories, by word count, Jesus spends the most time 00:15:24.438 --> 00:15:28.848 talking about the party and the final parable, the story of the prodigal son. 00:15:28.998 --> 00:15:32.358 Not only was everyone in the community invited to the party, but the lost 00:15:32.358 --> 00:15:34.908 son was too, and so was the other son. 00:15:35.358 --> 00:15:39.678 The other son was chastised for not participating in community despite being 00:15:39.678 --> 00:15:44.028 right, despite having the truth and having had the truth the whole time. 00:15:44.328 --> 00:15:47.088 He still missed the relationship. 00:15:50.105 --> 00:15:53.075 James Browning: The emphasis shifts from delivering pronouncements to 00:15:53.075 --> 00:15:57.425 walking alongside individuals, actively listening to their narratives and 00:15:57.425 --> 00:16:01.955 providing a shared meal or space for exploring life's profound questions. 00:16:02.645 --> 00:16:05.375 In short, the reason Apologetics has felt off. 00:16:05.990 --> 00:16:11.600 The reason it has been so hard and so complicated is maybe because you've 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:13.250 been trying to do it by yourself. 00:16:15.390 --> 00:16:18.000 Rusty George: As we wrap up this first episode, we're 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.830 left with some key questions. 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:24.510 Have personal experiences shown that openness to new ideas is often 00:16:24.510 --> 00:16:26.400 linked to the person presenting them. 00:16:27.270 --> 00:16:30.540 How does the feeling of being truly heard impact one's willingness 00:16:30.540 --> 00:16:31.920 to consider new perspectives? 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:38.100 And does the concept of belonging before believing resonate with observations 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:42.240 in various aspects of life, both within and beyond religious context, 00:16:44.160 --> 00:16:46.165 yet a significant challenge remains. 00:16:46.815 --> 00:16:50.895 If relational apologetics hinges on building authentic connections, 00:16:51.195 --> 00:16:55.455 how do we navigate the deeply entrenched mistrust that can arise 00:16:55.455 --> 00:16:59.835 from negative experience with religious individuals or institutions? 00:17:00.225 --> 00:17:04.575 How do we bridge the relational barriers created by church hurt? 00:17:05.705 --> 00:17:07.655 James Browning: This critical question will guide our 00:17:07.655 --> 00:17:09.365 exploration in the next chapter. 00:17:10.385 --> 00:17:11.225 See you next time.