I think one of the other magical parts of the sport, like pickleball,
is that there's an immediate perceived competence because the
sweet spot is right off your hand.
People can find that ball and serve, rally, and play right away.
Somebody who doesn't, never played, can play.
Right, but you can take that level really high, you know, which really
makes it a special sport And we are all things Padel whitney.
Welcome to Padel smash academy Why don't you talk a little bit
about the club that you have here?
Well, first of all, thanks for having me says it's been a pleasure to
meet you and your wife I appreciate you coming up from Connecticut and
joining us here in southern Vermont in the Wilmington Dover area.
Um, this has just been something that, uh, has been a vision of mine for a long time.
Um, I've been involved in Padal for about four years here in the U.
S.
and been looking like a lot of people for the right real
estate, uh, to make it happen.
It's tricky, as you know, with indoor to build out new is prohibitive to
find the right building with the right.
ceiling clearances and the pillars, right, etc.
It's, it's been tricky.
So, uh, it was a little bit of luck with my son in law's recent purchase
of this spectacular boutique inn.
And I think you guys have come to see and visit.
So how did you get into Padel?
How were you introduced?
I got introduced to Padel, um, in Bedford, New York.
I was living in Westchester County, working for the USTA
and playing winter platform.
A guy said to me, have you played Padel before?
I said, you mean what we're doing tonight?
And I think we've all had that debate of how to pronounce it.
He goes, no, no, there's a, there's a private court with a guy from France
that has this, do you want to come try?
And I said, absolutely.
I hadn't heard anything about it.
This goes back to probably 2016, almost 10 years ago.
And sure enough, we went over there and I was like, well, like a lot of us.
It wasn't long before I said this may be the coolest of all the racket sports.
I was immediately infected.
And, uh, ironically, the house came up for sale and the real estate agent
said, Hey, can you get some eyeballs on this property by just promoting?
And so the next thing you know, we had many club owners and managers and
people in the industry tasting pedal for the first time, which then segwayed
into the indoor court in Orlando at a rackets conference, a group was invited
to Barcelona, um, uh, to go over.
I unfortunately couldn't make that trip, but I then partnered with
some fellows that are now either retired or moved into other.
Businesses and, um, I've since been working for a FP out of Barcelona and,
um, been, uh, championing the cause and been a passionate advocate for it.
So, uh, have you played, uh, any other racket sports?
Oh, yeah, always.
I mean, I, uh, whether it be pinging pong or table tennis to, to platform,
of course, I've been playing tennis almost every day of my life since I was.
Seven years old.
Um, also pickleball.
I've been very fond of that in the last 10 years.
Excuse me.
And, uh, so I'm playing them all.
Great.
This is quickly risen to my most.
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I was about to ask you that so I think it's uh, People who
play different record sports, I believe they find when they finally pay Padel
They're like, this is it forget about everything else, you know, so how did you
come up with uh, Putting together this in and let's talk about that a little bit.
Uh, what is the official name of this?
Is it an inn or is it a club or, or?
Well, it's an inn.
It's called the Brook Mount Inn.
And it's a boutique hotel that has three different buildings with a lot of
different choices for your accommodations.
And when my son-in-Law purchased it this past summer and invited me over for the
first time, sure enough, there was a, a tennis court on the property that had
the old fashioned interlocking panels.
Mm-Hmm.
. And I, right away saw.
A vision, and that was the conversion of that slab to a peal, a pickle, and
we left a little basketball on it.
We're gonna put a beach tennis court above it as well.
So again, the SH mortgage board of activities that are all cross
training and develop athletes and all.
Just fun.
I mean, positive action breeds positive action.
Yeah, so how did you convince your son in law to put a Padel, uh, court in here?
He was probably like, what is that?
Is that like a Padel of a kayak?
I mean, what is that?
That's right.
I mean, he's, he's not, you know, he's more of an outdoorsy
hunter fisherman type.
So he's not much of a racket sports guy.
But in the last three years with his, his being involved with my daughter,
he, he knew I was in the business.
He looked over my shoulder.
He's so handy that I actually tried to convince him to help
me with some installations.
Um, and he was going, Whoa, uh, this glass is heavy.
And, you know, the lifts and the lulls and the open top container.
So he got involved from a logistical standpoint.
Early on and saw what was going on.
I was traveling to Seattle, to Denver, to Philadelphia, to
Austin with many, many projects.
And then I started to feed him the publicity that was going on.
As we spoke earlier with eight, with the New York Yankees buying the TV
rights for Yes, network to, you know, the world class athletes that are
segwaying into whether it be Beckham or Ronaldo or Serena or whoever.
I mean, there was a lot was happening.
We could see the tipping point of this sport coming to the USA.
I sat down with Jake and his mom and And pitched it and they just threw
up their hands and said, let's do it.
Let's go.
So it happened very quickly.
I mean, I work with world class court builders throughout the country that
are our distributors of our courts.
I have courts and inventory here in the country and I.
called a guy in Connecticut and he rolled it up and within three weeks
we had that cord up and then have since done a lot of samplings and get
the eyeballs and people trying it.
The taste of Pidal, as you know, my brother still teases me.
He goes, you know, I asked a hundred of my friends, you know, what Pidal
is and now I'm finding that one or two do where a year ago none of them.
Now he runs with a I tease him.
He needs to run with a hipper crowd, but it's happening.
We all know that it's, it's, it's a wonderful game.
Um, there's no turning back.
This is not some sort of fad or craze.
It's, uh, All right.
So, so how, I mean, this is Vermont.
Okay.
Like, uh, you guys have the first, uh, uh, uh, court, you know, to the public, right?
Uh, I mean, didn't they go through your head?
Like nobody knows this sport.
How, how are you going to, uh, market or how are you going to expose it to
people or educate people about the sport?
Here in Vermont.
Well, I work for a private boarding school, the Hussack School.
It is of an international nature.
So, our tennis team is comprised of all kids from Spain and
Brazil and Italy and Argentina.
So, they were very excited and since they've come over here and played.
Um, again, the fact that, Two of my best court building distributors,
Cape Island Tennis and Track, Northeast Pedal, Eric Loftus and the
Hending Group out of Connecticut.
They also needed a showcase to show their clients as they're
getting all this interest in the construction side and the sales.
So we teamed up to say, let's, let's build a place where
people could come and touch it.
Taste it, play it, see it.
It's one thing to look at a catalog, or talk about it.
It's another, as you know, to come and look at it.
Architecturally, we'd all agree, it's the most beautiful racket
sport structure out there.
I call it the human aquarium without the fish.
Without the water, rather.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, uh, what amenities do you have here?
How many courts do you have first?
Well, here we, again, as many people in the business know.
With a tennis court, unless you rejigger the directional of the court and add
some concrete or asphalt, um, with the existing direction of north south,
you can get one pedal court and one pickleball court comfortably on that.
We were able to do that and keep a basketball pitch.
So we're really one and one, which I felt was the right strategy, as you
mentioned, in Vermont, because there are a lot of people playing pickleball here.
So it's a, they know that sports an easier sell or pitch to say, Hey, come play
pickleball here, come stay at the end, or we have a local membership as well.
They then come, they get, they, what's this next, next
to us, they get a sampling.
And the next thing you know, it's, it's crossing over.
So do you see that happening a lot?
We do.
And besides the other amenities we have here, we.
We're on 33 acres with hiking trails and, and, um, snowmobiling trails, but we
also have one of the largest commercial swimming pools in New England as well
with a 75 foot by 30 foot, 10 foot deep with a slide swimming pool that also
adds to the ambience and the, the amenity package that people will enjoy here.
Okay.
So a big question.
Um, I mean, I just played with you guys and, and I see that the ball.
It's a lot slower, you know, which is great on the back walls.
Um, so I'm assuming because of the cold, and we were playing
in 27 degrees of weather.
I couldn't believe, and we were playing.
I mean, I was playing.
I mean, I just, I couldn't believe it.
Uh, when I came down here, I was like, okay, it's gonna be freezing weather.
Are we gonna be able to play?
And you know, I get here and you guys have six, eight people playing.
It's pretty incredible.
Um, do you see that?
And how, I mean, how many, how many months can you play?
And do you see you guys, everybody playing at that temperature?
Well, it, first of all, people in Vermont are very hardy.
I've come to realize that as they are in the Northeast in any winter climate,
and certainly we know how popular Padal is in Sweden and Norway and all.
So much like as I go back to where I learned in Bedford, New
York, I was playing in, you know, if there wasn't snow or ice.
I was playing, um, you know, with a plastic shovel.
You could expedited him a couple weeks ago.
It was out of play, but we've had a very warm winter.
We've had it spiked up to 40 degrees.
It melted off.
And again, there's natural protection with the glass.
So even in the wind that mitigates it.
So Much like platform tennis where people are playing and seven below
heat, you know, winter temperatures.
Now, naturally, that's an elevated and has the slats and you can
melt the snow and ice this.
I anticipate back to your question.
I'll probably be out of business maybe 90 days.
A year.
Um, but we played two weeks ago.
We played two days ago.
We played today.
We're probably gonna play tomorrow.
I mean, right now there's no snow in the forecast for the next week or so.
So again.
Even, by the way, interestingly too, about this court, or Padel in general, is even
a light rain you're able to play through.
Your pickleball, your tennis is done because the clay is too soft, the asphalt
is too slippery, but the turf and the sand really mitigates that moisture and creates
still sure footing and not a slip hazard.
So, we've had some days where we've played through a pretty good steady drizzle.
Yeah, that's true.
That's definitely true.
So again, are we going to someday look at covering it?
Maybe, uh, but for right now, we'll probably get, you know, seven to eight
months of play out of these amenities.
And those other months are because it's just there's snow, I'm assuming, right?
Right.
You, uh, because it's on the ground, there's, you know,
you can only do so much.
You gotta wait it out.
And that's okay to have a few days off.
I don't know.
That's what my visits to Florida are for.
Yeah, yeah, if you're addicted to Padel and you can't go to Florida,
you know, you're going to be like, ah, watching the World Padel Tour, the
premier Padel, that's it, you know.
Obstinacy makes the heart grow fonder.
You really appreciate the sport when you can't play.
And that's, of course, one of the things that I think is driving the interest,
too, is just the undersupply of courts with the demand and the interest
that's occurring in this country.
That's why we're all projecting Uh, as many as 10, 000 courts by 2030, with
the estimated number now, who really knows, but the guesstimate is probably
300 to 350 right now in this country.
So uh, what type of court do you guys have?
What manufacturer is it?
Uh, our court is manufactured by AFP, um, all for Pedale out of Barcelona, they have
a brand new factory and I've been over.
Uh, seeing the amazing quality controls.
We're one of the, this happens to be one of the aluminum courts.
I believe we're one of only two companies that offers an aluminum.
Why aluminum?
It's a 15 year guarantee.
It's great for any saline or close to the ocean type of stuff.
We do have steel courts that are galvanized and protected.
Um, so we, we offer a variety.
We have the panoramic naturally for more of an indoor scenario.
Um, this court has branded Adidas.
Um, you can choose to have it unbranded.
So we, we're the only company licensed with Adidas to brand our
unbranded Red Sport courts that way.
So, I like the, having Adidas involved.
I think it jazzes it up.
Um, we have a little pro shop on site here.
Um, I'm an Adidas player.
I play pickleball.
and padel representing the company.
And when we do a little outings or tournaments, it's nice to
have those gift bags and all the branded, you know, tchotchkes.
Right, I hear you.
Okay.
So who's the coach?
Are you the coach here?
Yes, I'm the coach.
Certified in the padel as well.
Plethora of other racquet sports and you offer lessons here as well, right?
We do, you know, we have Whether it be group or privates or you know,
little mini camps You know, we expect to run the gamut of that type of and
how much are the lessons per hour?
The lessons are you know, approximately over in the hundred dollar an hour range
for privacy and I know you guys just open I'm are you guys gonna do be doing some
clinics or maybe some tournaments leagues?
Yes.
Um, we're going to do some kind of like racket challenge events where again,
to, to, to mitigate the fact that we only have one court, we'll do some
events where you'll play pickleball, you'll play Fidel and you'll play beach.
And those results, uh, will all kind of cumulatively, you know,
who's the best rackets athlete.
Um, so we'll have some fun with that.
One of my favorite things to do are just simply what I call,
you know, open play nights where there'll be a theme of the night.
I'll, you know, maybe it'll be the solid glass wall or, or lodge.
And so we'll do a little tip of the night, drill that up a little bit, and
then just rotate people with what, you know, a maximum encounter round robin
where everybody plays with everybody, both sports, um, for a couple of hours.
That's by level, you know, that'll be, you know, one night
it'll be intermediate night.
One night it'll be.
Beginners another advanced night.
So people love that, you know, it's as you saw, it's a great social environment,
you know, we've got a little barbecue down there and a fire pit if we need it.
Yeah, I do see that.
It's a paradisiacal spot.
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
So, alright, so let's talk about a little bit about the inn.
Um, how many units you have available?
Um, and what is the cost?
And are you going to be marketing this kind of like come down here and play
Padel or racket sport and stay here?
I mean, how is, how is the inn?
associated with, with, uh, with a pickle and Padel.
Well, the beautiful thing about Vermont is it's a four season destination.
I mean, it's a leaf peeping, you know, everybody loves to come in here, uh,
September through the middle of late October to see the leafs change.
The colors are spectacular.
It's a huge equestrian, uh, horse country in the summer.
There's a big horse show nearby in Dorset that pushes about six weeks.
You've got the rivers, the lakes, the fishing, world class skiing.
We're within 30 minutes of five ski resorts, Mount Snow,
Akemo, Magic, Bromley, Stratton.
Um, so there's something to do.
hiking all four seasons.
Haystack golf course is right around the corner.
So there's a lot that come here, weddings.
So there's things that drive business here already.
So this was an added amenity to be unique and be a differentiator.
I mean, there are a lot of choices of places to stay.
We thought by adding an exotic amenity like Padau, and you know, and pickle,
not every resort has pickleball either.
And nor should they because of the noise mitigation.
We're lucky here, based on the footprint of our property, that, as
you notice, the court is recessed away from the residential side of
things, so there is no You know, noise pollution really coming from that area.
Um, so back to your question about the, the nice thing about this
inn is there's an amazing variety.
We're in the main lodge here that has eight different suites.
Um, so the two bedroom suite to my left here has its own kitchen.
So two couples could enjoy that.
There's a handicap suite.
Most of them have little kitchenettes, but then there's common rooms.
We're in the living room.
There's a TV room, there's a dining room, there's a communal kitchen.
So this main lodge has about eight different choices from anywhere from.
As little as 195 to maybe 400 if you take the double suite, depending
again on seasonal demand, etc.
Then we have two outbuildings.
We have the cabin and the carriage house.
Those are both separate, detached.
Um, they all have charging stations for electric vehicles.
Uh, the one carriage house can sleep 10 comfortably.
Two bath, major kitchen, and the, the other, uh, outbuilding.
The, the.
the cabin about eight comfortably.
So great place for family reunions.
We've, we've done some weddings here.
Um, so it's got a real nice variety.
We're on 33 acres, you know, hiking close to both Dover and Wilmington and
Distratton, as I mentioned, Mount Snow.
So it's a real, uh, a great destination and you can get here.
I know you drove up Connecticut, but my goodness, from Jersey, from Boston.
I mean, we're just a short drive from, um, from a lot of major cities.
So if somebody wanted to play Padel, how would that work?
Do you guys, uh, have some type of app or do they just call and reserve the
court or is it just something that is available for people to stay at the end?
And is it?
Membership or non membership?
And if there's membership, what does that include and what are the costs?
Great question.
No, no, it's an easy one.
So, again, we, we, I, I did team up with Salix, S A L I X, as our app provider.
Um, I really like Rex Robinson and his, his, his app.
He custom, you know, he, he does this, uh, for other clubs as well,
but he was able to do a little customization for us very easily.
Um, so that's the app.
So if you stay here at the inn, your, those amenities are included.
So you can book, you just go on the app and you look at the
schedule of both courts and you're able to just reserve the court.
I, in order to provide equal access, you can book once up to two hours a day.
And then as soon as you're finished, you can book again should the courts be open.
Okay.
So that's for the inn, the people staying in the inn.
Beyond that, we do sell an outside membership.
Historically, this club, before we took it over, had about 70 local
members for the swimming pool only.
Well now, we're offering a pool and Padel pickle membership.
Either Together or separate.
You can choose to just if you're not a rackets player, just join the pool.
If you want both, you can have both.
Or if you're not a swimmer or you have a pool elsewhere.
So we have the three different membership categories.
For that, it's annual.
And of course, the pool is open from Memorial Day until just after Labor Day.
But the racket sports as we talked about, it's weather permitting.
You might play today like we did.
Um, and for that, you as a member, like the models of many Padel centers around
this country now, As a member, you have advanced booking, a lot of privileges,
advanced booking privileges, same thing.
You can book 14 days in advance, two hours in time.
And your fees are reduced by comparison to someone that might just cold call or come
in and say, Hey, I'm only here for a day.
I'm visiting friends.
I'd love to play a fiddle.
Can I book the court?
Should it be available?
Yes.
Same thing.
They would reach out or go to the app and book at a non member rate.
If you're interested in those rates, I can share them with you.
Yeah, what's a non member rate versus a Um, the non member rate,
um, we're starting to get out again, um, at 60 an hour for Vidal.
At 32 an hour for our, our spectacularly beautiful Pickleball
court and if you're a member and if you're a member, it's 32 an hour.
For, it's almost double right.
And 16.
Okay.
For the, um, pickle, the pickleball.
And so, uh, what is the annual membership cost?
An annual membership, so for all, all three things like the Pickle, the
Padel, and then the, um, the pool.
For a family it's 1200.
For a single it's a thousand.
Okay.
And then how about if you just wanted the, the, the Padel core, you know,
if you just wanted the rackets, membership rackets membership.
250 for a single and 350 for a couple.
Wow.
So yeah, if you play Padel, it's worthwhile.
If you play Padel, it means half the cost, you know?
Yeah, that's right.
It's, yeah, half the cost.
And, um, again, and not to mention, because it's a limited number of
seats, so to speak, in the plane.
When we do these socials, when we do a Memorial Day, you know, racquet
thon or a barbecue or those open plays, members will have the first
crack at those 8 or 10 or 12 spots.
And then if those go unsold, then I would reach out to the, to the non members.
So there's a lot of advantages to it.
So how do people know about these events?
Is that on the app there?
It is.
The app, once you join, whether you're a member or not.
We can, you know, there's a notice board, there's email blasts,
there'll be a schedule of events.
And I'm a big believer too, hey, being a platform tennis guy, I never
was good at calling three friends.
I needed to be programmed.
I needed to know I was in my Tuesday night and Thursday night league.
And then I was locked and loaded.
And I think there are a lot of racket players or creatures like that.
So that's why, you know, if you were up here probably this summer, I would You'd
probably lock in to the Thursday Night Advanced Men's advanced co ed group.
At least now you know once a week you're over here for the two hour clip.
And you meet people too, new people, you know.
Um, okay, so it seems to me like the best route is kind of like To stay at
stay here, you know, and then you get access to that to the courts, right?
I think so I mean imagine staying here for whatever Whatever price we said for
a couple and then you're playing padel as much as you want or pickle I mean Yeah,
there might be a little bit of other demand for the court, but there's a lot
of hours in the day So so you're right.
Let's go back.
I know you mentioned before.
So what is um, The cost of of the staying here, um at let's say a one bedroom
Versus let's say the cottage, right?
The whole, the whole section.
Well, those cot, the cottage, I'm just going to give you a round
numbers, probably in the four 50 a night range, because again, it's,
how many people does that hold?
Eight, 10, you know, people, a family or two small families, right?
Right.
Um, and this, this suite to our left, which is a double suite with the kitchen.
We just had a two couple stay in there.
That's running around 350 a night.
The other single rooms, the one that you and your wife potentially might be
staying in tonight, is in the low twos.
Again, they have kitchenettes in them.
It's all modern, as you can tell.
The place is very, very tastefully appointed.
When I first came here, I thought I was in Jackson Hole or Aspen.
I mean, the woodwork, the attention to detail, the moldings.
It's first class.
I mean, this is very unique, very amazing.
Uh, you know, the first, uh, Padel, uh, court and the public,
uh, Padel court here in Vermont.
It's pretty amazing.
I mean, uh, I had to, I had to, I had to come down here and I'm so
glad I did, you know, I so appreciate your initiative in doing it.
And, um, and you're right.
It's, it's a very, it's fun because again, uh, It's just a great conversation
piece when you bring this up, you know, first you know this, but on what?
You know, a court in Vermont?
I mean, it's You probably get that all the time.
Yeah.
It's, uh, it's the, as we spoke earlier, probably the closest
court from us is either Connecticut or Philadelphia or Brooklyn.
So it's, it's quite the little spot.
Right.
You get a lot of people coming here from, again, from everywhere.
One of my Plans too, as I just taught, you know, having been a college coach last
year at Oneonta, um, and having had the high school team out here, it looks like
I'm going to get union college to come out Williams college practices in Bennington.
Um, we're, I'm hoping to get Dartmouth.
I mean, there's so many beautiful schools close by that.
I think their tennis teams, you know, I've heard of the sport.
They've seen the courts in Orlando at the USTA national campus.
So it's fun to.
Bring the tennis players over and have them have a kind of a day here.
They play, they willy nilly around with some pickleball and have some fun.
So I think, you know, you might need some more courts.
Yes.
Like, you know, once people get to know this sport, I mean, one court
is probably not going to be enough.
So, is there any plans in the future for expanding?
That's always part of the plan.
I mean, the nice thing is we're not landlocked.
We're on 33 acres here.
So, um, already my son in law says, Hey, Coach Whitney, when
are we going to cover this thing?
I said, well, glad you're thinking about, you know, either covering it with
a permanent structure or bubbling it.
Um, we are going to be lighting it.
Um, we already have the fixtures up.
We just need to run the line.
So that'll be, give us some more hours in the day.
I mean, it does stay light here in the, in the summer pretty late, but in the spring
and fall, we'd like to extend the day.
So, um, yeah, let there be, I always like, uh, people waiting for courts
rather than courts waiting for people.
So once we get to that over demand, then we'll look at.
The expansion.
So now you said covering it, are you going to fully cover it or just put
a top on it or, and I doubt it would increase your play time, you know,
during, during the winter and with snow.
That's right.
I think we're going to look at all the different, there's so many
configurations and options out there.
I'm not the biggest fan of a bubble.
Um, so I'm leaning more towards, you know, maybe a structure that is a frame.
So, you know, obviously it's highest over the net and then maybe the sides can be.
Open or closed, you know, open during the so now you're
guaranteed even in the summer.
Now you're not in direct sun.
You've got some ventilation going through.
But in the winter, maybe you can drop some flaps.
As you saw today, once you start moving around, there's nothing wrong with
playing in 22 degree temperatures, you know, when I came when I came out the
door, you know, for my car and I was like, Oh, my God, this is way too cold.
I mean, how are we going to play?
And, you know, I did some stretches.
I got out there once it started moving.
Um, That was it.
Yeah, I mean, matter of fact, by the end, uh, some of us were in our shorts
and, you know, just you could be normal.
And you see that in platform tennis, too.
I know you're familiar with that.
Yeah.
You'll see guys by the end of the first set that You know, holy cow.
Yeah.
Yeah, all the clothes are in the corner, you know, I further had all
the clothing all in a corner You know, but that has some heat coming up.
So it helps a little bit, right?
Remember that that heat on those courts is not for the comfort of the players
That's the melt the snow ice and snow and I would say not all the courts in
this country have that I mean, that's kind of a It's a feature that a lot
of high end country clubs have, but you don't find that at every place.
And, uh, so, yeah, it's a little, it's comfortable a little bit, but
it's really there to melt the ice.
Now, did you maybe think of that?
Maybe putting something in a concrete, you know, some heat just to get the snow out?
Um, briefly, and we've dealt, you know, I know that we did the
project for the Philadelphia Cricket Club's four beautiful courts.
And they investigated that idea and then backed off too and said, Um, we'll just
be out of business a couple of years.
Yeah, yeah.
Part of the cost too might not make sense.
Yeah, and we're still, we were having trouble even discovering
in our research even any clubs even in Europe that had that.
Because we were just, you know, again, you're dealing with turf and sand and
we just wondered how that moisture, that sogginess, how that would work out.
And, you know, probably have to have pretty interesting French drains
or pitch and drainage to really.
Have that work.
And so the risk reward was just too much to embark upon.
So, so how's the, um, how are people kind of, uh, um, uh, uh, is there a talk
in the town about the Padel, you know?
Are you like the Padel guy here in Vermont?
You know, it's the Padel guy, you know?
Padel guy.
Oh, that's a good one.
Uh, certainly I'm a, you know, passionate advocate and, uh, And,
uh, you know, I take my Padel to the pickleball courts everywhere.
I do play a lot of competitions and take it and just kind of pass it around
and have people touch it and feel it.
And again, almost with every passing day, there's more and
more that I've heard about it now.
And they, or have a friend from Europe or South America.
So it's just a great, you know, conversation piece that gets it going
and, and now having a place where people can come and try as you met today.
I mean, the one lady drove up from Brattleboro, another
gentleman drove over from Dorset, another guy came from Stratton.
So I'm getting people that are driving virtually an hour.
You know, to come over here, they will to play.
And they will, if they play Padel, that's right.
It is within an hour, an hour and a half, even two, they're coming.
It's got a big draw.
It's just, they need to know about it.
You know, uh, usually a snowboarding or, or, you know, into Europe or
Florida or somewhere else where they have Padeld and then they come
back, they have the edge to play.
Yeah, certainly a lot of the people here do winter in Florida.
So, um.
Again, we're hopeful of a project coming out of the ground in Vero Beach very soon.
So, a lot of them that have been to the Dade County, Miami, some
of the clubs we've talked about.
Boynton Beach has a court indoors in a squash club.
Many of the country clubs now, Boca Grove and Boca Raton just added courts.
So, it's happening fast.
The city of Wellington is one of the first municipal.
The clubs in Florida that are bringing it on.
So it's, it's fun to watch this wave, the tipping point.
It's not often a new sport comes to a country.
No less has one with the kind of legs that this has.
I mean, we're not talking about spike ball here, not doing spike
ball, but this is a sport that is going to have some staying power.
It's not going to be a fad.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I see a little bit more difficult in New England and areas where You have
the four seasons, especially the winter, you know, the nice like Florida and Texas
and California, it's a little bit easier, you know, but, um, so being indoors,
do you think that's going to be key?
Or do you think a, a, a pedicle can survive without being indoors?
Well, as you know, we're seeing the indoor places coming on board in
Connecticut, like a sports house.
And of course, Pedell House in the city, Pedellphia, Pedellphia
not only has the outdoor.
Tour courts where we first started with pop ups four years ago in Manionk
and Bollockinwood, but now the indoor.
So there you got side by side.
Um, I mean certainly indoor is, if you can get the numbers right, you know, people
like guarantee of weather and consistency.
You know, if you get, I know being in the tennis business, if
I lose, Three consecutive days or three consecutive Tuesday nights
to rain outs or too much wind.
It's hard to keep your.
You're following, you know, your people engaged.
So there's something to be said for consistency.
I'm curious, I'm sure you've had some European folks on your blog that,
you know, what are the percentages of indoor versus outdoor in Europe?
I mean, primarily in Spain, I got to guess they're outdoors because of the weather.
But when you get into the Nordic countries like Sweden, which has a Big pedal
push, but they've got a I would think would be mostly, you know indoors So
there's I think pros and cons, right?
So indoors you're always limited to height, right?
And a lot of these buildings, um They're 20 feet 23 24.
They're not regulation 27 and even at 27, um You know, as you
know, lobs or lobos are a very important part of a Padel, right?
You're only as good as, as your lob, you know, that's what they say.
Um, so you have that as a kind of, but again.
Uh, you know, indoors it's consistency.
You know you're going to play.
There's, it's not going to rain.
It's not going to be canceled.
You know what I'm saying?
There's a hurricane, unless it's a hurricane and lights go out,
but you know you're playing.
The worst thing is, you know, is coming, okay, I'm going to
play Thursday and it's raining.
You know, it's like the worst, you know?
So there are some pros and cons.
Um, obviously it's a lot more expensive, uh, indoors, you know,
return on investment is longer.
It's more expensive.
Uh, it takes.
Longer to build, you know, permits, all those things, uh, outdoor is, uh,
obviously, uh, less return on investment the sooner and you get that, you get
all the higher, you know, but, you know, but you get the, you know, even
in, uh, warmer areas, you still get humidity, still get, you know, heat, sun.
So I guess there's pros and cons to both, you know, well, one nice
thing that, as you were saying, that is pretty cool about outdoor.
Pedal is the, is the, at least wind is mitigated.
I mean, you know, you, you can't play pickleball on some days
outside with a plastic ball.
I mean, there's nothing around there to stop it, but the, but the tempered glass
does helps, does help not only with the temperatures we talked about earlier,
but it, but the wind can be blowing or howling and it's really unaffecting the
game because of your structure there.
So that's kind of neat.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, you're right.
I mean, I was just in Houston.
I mean, Most of the clubs out in the southwest, uh, in Texas and
Austin and Houston are outdoors.
I did see a couple of indoor courts, uh, but just for a
variety of different reasons.
But, you know, to have the variety, we'll see.
I mean, the, it's what the market will bear.
And I think we'll, we'll see a little bit of everything down the road.
Again, I think that, uh, some people ask me, you know, is it, A kid's game, you
know, I, I think much like pickleball has become, I think the demographics
are from youngsters all the way up to Well up into the years of the seventies.
I mean, so I think it's, I think it's, it's pretty much of an equal jet.
I think maybe in some countries, I think more women are playing it than guys.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah.
I mean that they, they just, everybody's playing it.
You're right.
And, and I think that's important.
I think, you know, um, because if you don't get the youth to start playing
that, you know, it's gonna, you know, turn on like racquetball or something,
you know, where you just an older sport and then that's kind of dying
out because you don't have that youth.
playing, you know, so getting into the schools, getting your, your kids to
start playing, I think is really key.
It's super important, you know, here, you know, in other areas like Spain,
Argentina or Europe and stuff like it's already kind of established.
They already have that.
That's why they're so far ahead of us, you know, but I think that's
important in the U S for sure.
I think one of the other magical parts of the sport, like pickleball is that there's
an immediate perceived competence because the sweet spot is right off your hands.
People can find that ball and serve, rally, and play right away.
But more than pickleball, you have the level up and all the different shots.
It's very broad, as you're saying, very broad.
Somebody who doesn't, never played, can play.
Right.
But you can take that level really high.
Which really makes it a special sport.
And it also initially bridges levels.
I mean, like pickleball.
You know, you and I could.
Grab two people and have fun with it.
Don't get me wrong, I love tennis.
It's been very good to me, but we all know that tennis is very level sensitive.
It's just hard to bridge it.
There's no real handicapping that has worked ever.
A hundred percent.
And you're playing singles, you know, all the time too.
You know, so finding that person that, you know, that's close
to your level is difficult.
And somebody you can socialize with.
That's even harder.
And the footprint too is tighter, like pickleball, you know, you, you reweave
the social fabric, you go out the open door there and you know, you're mixing
and matching, you know, very easily.
I'm very fond of the turf.
I find it very user friendly on my joints and body.
Um, I don't know whether there's a little cushion in it or something, or it's
the sand that creates an anti friction.
I mean, I can play hours and feel, I think, I think, I think that's definitely,
it's definitely the turf, but it's also the way you play, I believe, you know,
in tennis, you're running to one part stopping and doing a full stroke, you
know, learning, you know, it's a lot of stress when you go and stop there, you
know, to take that shot all through your body, you know, and Padel, you're not
doing that, you know, you got a partner.
You're slowing it down using the back wall.
You know, so there's a little bit less, less of that.
You know, you're not stressing if that ball is getting by you.
Because as long as you're not defending against the walls, you're just taking
your time and getting the right shot.
Tennis, left, right, and you're stopping a lot of pressure on
your feet, on your whole body.
Left, right, and taking those shots.
So I think it's definitely better when it comes to the older guys.
You know?
And, you know, your joints and your back.
Because that was one of the reasons why You know, I started, stopped
playing tennis too because it was just taking a toll, you know, on
my, on my body, you know, my joints.
The other interesting part of this sport, like pickleball too, is that
if you and I were to take a stopwatch and see how much the ball was in play
during our hour, It's in play a lot because the ball, you're in that box
and the ball comes right back to you.
You know, you're not going and fetching it and bouncing the
underhanded serve creates, you know, a very easy point starter.
Um, one of the things just I observed too, by watching the pros in Miami a
couple of years ago, that surprised me is how I thought they would hit
overheads off of a lot of balls that were like three quarter court.
But because the players are so good at coming forward and not
being afraid of a hard hit ball.
Yeah, the bounce of those deep lobs and then the cochillo or the ball off the
glass Was a real epiphany for me to watch So I'm probably changing game, right?
Yeah, I thought I needed to cover all the overhead like tennis You
know, you don't let that thing get over your head and bounce.
Yeah, but in this game, you've got to be Careful, I think, of
not trying to hit a smash from too far back, because a good player is
going to come in and drop the ball.
Yeah, like, so, I was talking to him about before, there's many different shots
and unique shots to Padel, you know, so every position you're at, where the ball
comes, you know, it's a specific shot, so you don't want to use the wrong shot.
You know, at that time, so if you're in the back on the back line and you're
going to take a smash and your name and you're not, um, Arturo, Arturo
Cuello, you're not going to take that.
It's a wrong shot because nine times out of ten, it's not
going to come back or you're not going to put it up or for three.
So the experienced player is just going to come to the front and then come and smash.
So, and then you have unique shots, of course.
You know, you have La Baneja, right?
You have the Vibora.
So those are the shots you're going to use, as you know, uh, to keep your net.
You know, or hope that, you know, your Vibora is good enough where
they're just barely getting.
Give you a short, short lob.
And then that's when you're going to hit the smash.
But I think coming from tennis, I came from tennis myself.
Um.
Either the first thing you want to do is smash and you know, I had a
good great smash You know, which is definitely one of the shots important
shots But you know playing with people who are not the experience it worked
all the time But once you start playing with Padel players you get caught
where you're giving away points, you know, and then you start learning.
You have to start learning all the shots, all the aerial shots, you know, so that's,
uh, so I had the same same situation, you know, when I first started, you
know, it's like, hey, there's other shots and I can't be doing this all the time.
Plus.
It exerts a lot of energy, you know, smash exerts a lot of energy, you know, and
then, you know, it's a high risk shot, you know, uh, you have to hit exactly,
you know, if you hit it too high, you see it going way over there, you know,
or it hits the net, you know, so, um, yeah, I experienced the same thing.
Great thinking person sport, the geometry of it and reading the angles and the,
uh, deflections and the rebounds.
It's just, it just really is an engaging.
Beautiful, beautiful sport.
So I feel privileged to have been exposed to it and be involved.
And I look forward to, you know, the journey here, you know, here forward.
Correct.
Great.
Okay.
So, uh, where can they reach, uh, you guys have a website or do you guys
have a handle for any of the platforms?
Yeah, we have the brookboundinvermont.
com is our website.
Um, so that's probably the best place to start with.
And then you have also the app, right?
And then the app is, right on there you can download the app.
Oh, right.
And register.
So that's the first step really, is getting the app.
And at that point you can, you know, uh, you can book a court, you know.
And from there I assume, can you actually book a place here in
the inn or do you have to call?
No, you can book off the website.
Oh, that's great.
We're, we're also on the Vrbo and Airbnb platforms as well for the inn,
not so much for the pickleball pedal.
That's probably soon to come, you know, it's like, okay, so let's talk
a little bit more about Padel and you What side do you play on and do
you see yourself more as a technical?
Um player or more of an as an aggressive player Well
fortunate to be a southpaw lefty.
Okay, so early on my You know, one of my mentors was marcos dead pilar, you know,
he got me started and So he pushed me over to the uh the right side very quickly.
So in tennis, we call that the do side, I believe.
And so, um, that way my forehand is, our forehand, if I'm typically playing with
another right hand or our forehands or it's the middle, um, when my partner's
serving, we go the Australian format.
Um, probably the shot that I've suffered with, uh, early
on, cause I used to try to.
cut it off was the serve coming into the glass.
If I lean that too close to protect that.
I felt like first I left the middle open for guys that would knife it down.
There are gals.
And then also I found that I was maybe taking balls that might
have been going into the mesh.
So with enough prep trials and repetitions, I've learned to
sit back and let the ball go.
Kiss off the glass there, that first panel, and then just return
it off of that in most cases.
You don't want to have that serve reach the second panel.
Right, right.
Positioning, it's been fun, this journey of, you know, I'm a hyper competitive
rackets guy, so I'm always striving to get better and compete well.
So you're lefty, and of course you play the right sided driver, the deuce.
Um, so when it comes down the middle, or there's a nice shot.
Who takes it?
You or your partner?
Well, it depends on who I'm playing with.
You know?
Yeah?
Uh, partially.
Um, You know, I, I, oftentimes it's the player that may have hit the last shot,
tends to be a little more engaged, you know, who's got the diagonal angle, who
maybe is in front of the other player.
Uh, but you know, there's a chance to communicate.
Um, so it's just, uh, it's just trial and error.
And I'm still searching for a more consistent partner as well.
Kind of mixing and matching.
I'm one of my goals in 2024.
Happy New Year to everybody, by the way, is to, is to start to compete more.
I want to start playing some tournaments.
There's a lot of them.
I mean, I visit the USPA website all the time.
And so I look forward to competing and finding, you know,
a multitude of partners to play.
Okay.
So what's your favorite racket?
Well, my favorite racket is, uh, is the, uh, the Adidas.
Um, I'm playing with the, uh, Adipower Control right here.
I like the fact that it's got a little grid on it.
Uh, the metal bone as well with a little waiting system.
That's the new pickleball racket they just came out with, which was very innovative.
I think it was the first ever custom weighted, uh, racket.
So, um.
Yeah, it's it's it seems to have the right amount of balance and feel and Control
and power and so enjoy it and in golden point, you know, if you play golden point
who takes it you or your partner You know again It's it really depends on who seems
to be The hotter player at the moment.
Okay, so it was more consistent that day.
And it might be what our opponents have shown us with their serving
skill to that particular side.
If they've been very effective at Fine in the glass on one particular side and
have had success with winner serves.
And maybe the other player will take that.
All right.
So what, so what's your favorite shot?
You know, I love, I love the three letter dirty word.
Lob.
I tend to have pretty good feel.
I, you know, I think especially new players.
Padel haven't really recognized how important it is to be, not only how
important it is, but they tend to squeeze in a little tight on the net.
And so it's pretty easy to bump it over their heads and get in.
Then I just love to see him scramble, you know, run at the ball and figure
out what they're going to do next on it.
It's a way to, uh, to dominate the net.
I also, uh, I mean, I've always been a bit of a touch finesse.
Tennis player and pickleball player.
So is it the Chiquita, not Chiquita.
Yeah.
Not Chiquita.
I love to Mm-Hmm.
to, to kind of use what I call the gravity shot.
Mm-Hmm.
. Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and angle it in front of a player and see if they can properly split
step and use the crossover and Yeah.
Go get that.
As opposed to a lot of them, you know, rear back Mm-Hmm.
or he gets by 'em, so, yeah.
You know?
Yes.
It's fun to drive it and, you know, crush it, but so far, you know, the.
The defensive offensive lob.
Off the return of serve in particular.
I often times go over the That's not easy either.
Especially if they got a good serve, you know.
Sometimes, for me, if they have a good serve, it's just getting it back.
You know, so they can just defend it and my second one is
a lob usually, that's the case.
But if it's a second serve, then I go for the lob, you know.
Alright, so what's your worst shot?
Um, I think my, my weakness still is being able to properly react to a two sided hard
hit glass shot where don't, you know, I got to learn the defensive glass, right?
You know, work in those corners where, you know, when it.
Staying near it when it goes by me near and going away from it when it
goes by me from afar and just not getting turned around and realizing
that you have more time than you think.
I do have a lot of platform tennis hours under my belt, so I learned
how not to get turned around there.
So I think with enough trials and repetitions with this, I'll I'll
get more adept at handling the, the power drives that have multiple.
That tends to be most tennis players, uh, difficult.
So it was mine when I first started, of course, uh, defending the walls, you
know, it's like the walls, what is that?
You know?
And then sometimes you'll see people step up to the line and
try to volley everything there.
So they don't want to let it go back into the.
into the back wall.
And once in a while we'll do that too.
They have a good bandeja and, and I'm like, Oh, it's going to be hard to defend.
It's going to die in the corner.
I'll step up.
But, uh, before I used to do that all the time.
Now I feel more confident, um, just practicing, practicing a little while.
So that's, that's usually a tennis player's most difficult shot to defend.
And it was mine, you know, when I first started.
The other shot I'm struggling with a little bit is when the player
really keeps it Super close to.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, what's the, help me with that one.
Yeah, that's just, it's just a difficult shot.
There's no like shot you're going to use.
I mean, what I do is.
I mean, I mean, number one is that it's, you know, most, uh, tennis
players will hold their Padel, I think, with Eastern Continental, right?
So they're like this, so it's very hard to, to get that ball, right, forehand.
So, you know, the Continental grip is always easiest in a short,
uh, a short, what do you call it?
Um, stroke.
So by doing that, you can cover close to that glass and just You know, or as
I think most tennis players are holding like this and they're trying to, it's very
difficult, especially with the back walls, you know, so that's, that's also changed.
That's also a thing that I see too is a grip, you know, it's getting
used to the continental script.
A lot of tennis players, right?
Would you say the pros virtually play a continental on every ball or are they,
uh, you mean, you mean from Padel?
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, um.
Yes, that's where you first start.
I mean, but again, you're going to change east and western, you know
Because the ball is so low and you have to get underneath, you know,
you gotta you gotta change your grip.
So for me, I I do change my grip based on the shot, but almost 80 percent is
going to be continental grip always um That's how I you know, but I say
But there's shots that you can't do or it's more difficult to do if you're
not don't have a continental grip And the corners and really the back wall.
If you're trying to do a big swing and you have, it's going to be very hard.
You know, you just got to get down in there and short
swing and boom, get it over.
Open it up.
Right, right, right.
So, um, so yeah, I mean that's Uh, I mean, I, I encountered that when
I first started playing as well.
And I think a lot of people do until you make that little adjustment
because it feels very weird coming from tennis and then coming to use
a continental grip and then Padel.
It's like it took some time to get used to it.
I think everybody takes some time that comes from tennis
to get used to that, you know?
Um, okay.
So who is your favorite partner in Padel?
Um, well, my favorite partner in Padel is, um, Probably I,
I play with a Belgian pro here.
He's from Belgium, but he's locally a pro.
His name is Frank Bonte.
Okay.
Uh, he's fun to play with.
I also like to play with Carlos Bautier, who's, who I mentioned
is with Real Turf out in Houston.
Um.
From a female side, uh, I'm still probably my wife is my
favorite, uh, it's a good answer.
Who, who, who is a good, a nice pickleball player and a good tennis player and
particularly well, good out of the air.
So her.
Her volley skills in tennis translated well over the years.
Yeah, yeah, definitely tennis players get the volleys, you know.
It's just a little change, but they pretty much have the volleys, you know.
And the smash, those are the two things, you know, that are
helpful for coming from tennis.
All right, Winnie, thank you for coming on the show.
Um, you know, I want to wish you all the luck in this adventure.
I appreciate you guys interest in making the journey up here.
Con mucho gusto.
Hasta la proxima vez.
Alright buddy.
Thanks.
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