Rachel Casey (00:00:03):
Hi, welcome to Sober Banter.

Colin Casey (00:00:05):
We have a special guest, drum roll.

Colin Casey (00:00:10):
And it is... Jack!

Colin Casey (00:00:14):
So welcome to Sober Banter.

Colin Casey (00:00:16):
I want to give the introduction to you because I think you have a really unique take on...

Colin Casey (00:00:24):
how you look at not drinking and how alcohol affected you.

Colin Casey (00:00:29):
Cause we are,

Colin Casey (00:00:29):
we both say openly,

Colin Casey (00:00:32):
like we're alcoholics and I don't know that that's quite your path.

Colin Casey (00:00:37):
And I think that's awesome.

Colin Casey (00:00:38):
You're also, which I, uh, I got level headed when I'm 30.

Colin Casey (00:00:45):
I got sober though at 27.

Colin Casey (00:00:47):
And I was like, I'm not,

Colin Casey (00:00:53):
far off from, you know, the age of 25.

Colin Casey (00:00:55):
And he's like, you're in your 30s, you are, you got nothing in common.

Colin Casey (00:00:59):
And I'm like, but I got sober young, and it did feel weird.

Colin Casey (00:01:03):
I mean, not as young as you are.

Colin Casey (00:01:06):
But I just want to hear your take and let you kind of I'm interested in that to

Rachel Casey (00:01:12):
just being because I got sober in my mid 30s,

Rachel Casey (00:01:13):
because I'm quite a bit older than she is.

Colin Casey (00:01:16):
He robbed that cradle.

Rachel Casey (00:01:17):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:01:17):
But yeah, because when I was 22.

Rachel Casey (00:01:21):
Because there was no way I would have thought to even become sober.

Rachel Casey (00:01:25):
That was an option or something I'd want to do at your age.

Rachel Casey (00:01:28):
So, yeah, I'm very interested on how you came about that.

Colin Casey (00:01:32):
Yeah, I know what you sent us, but I don't want to put the wrong words in anyone's mouth.

Colin Casey (00:01:36):
And I think the honestly, you're probably the best person to kind of explain it.

Colin Casey (00:01:40):
So take it away.

Jack Millikan (00:01:42):
Cool.

Jack Millikan (00:01:42):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:01:42):
Thank you for having me.

Jack Millikan (00:01:43):
I'm Jack.

Jack Millikan (00:01:44):
I'm from St.

Jack Millikan (00:01:44):
Louis, 25 years old.

Jack Millikan (00:01:47):
And so I had.

Jack Millikan (00:01:49):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:01:49):
I'd recently posted this on Instagram,

Jack Millikan (00:01:51):
but I came to a realization when I was 24 that I had been drinking,

Jack Millikan (00:01:55):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:01:56):
since I was 14 years old.

Jack Millikan (00:01:57):
So for 10 years straight, I had been, you know, getting drunk at least on a monthly basis.

Jack Millikan (00:02:02):
And then it began,

Jack Millikan (00:02:03):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:02:03):
amplified and exponentially grew into more and more frequently as I got older.

Jack Millikan (00:02:08):
Um,

Jack Millikan (00:02:09):
and so I,

Jack Millikan (00:02:10):
yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:02:11):
24 years old,

Jack Millikan (00:02:11):
I was in a job that I really did not like,

Jack Millikan (00:02:14):
um,

Jack Millikan (00:02:15):
and just was like,

Jack Millikan (00:02:16):
okay,

Jack Millikan (00:02:16):
well,

Jack Millikan (00:02:16):
I'm just going to wait for the weekends and,

Jack Millikan (00:02:18):
and,

Jack Millikan (00:02:19):
get drunk on the weekends because that's what's going to happen.

Jack Millikan (00:02:21):
And then,

Jack Millikan (00:02:22):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:02:22):
if there's an event sometime during the week,

Jack Millikan (00:02:24):
then maybe one or two,

Jack Millikan (00:02:25):
I'll drink three,

Jack Millikan (00:02:26):
four nights a week around that time,

Jack Millikan (00:02:28):
just because it was,

Jack Millikan (00:02:29):
it was just such a,

Jack Millikan (00:02:31):
my life was so dull in the sense of no trajectory,

Jack Millikan (00:02:34):
nothing like that.

Jack Millikan (00:02:35):
And so 24 years old,

Jack Millikan (00:02:37):
I decided,

Jack Millikan (00:02:37):
or all of 2024,

Jack Millikan (00:02:39):
I'm going to start,

Jack Millikan (00:02:42):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:02:42):
just trying to be a tea toddler going sober.

Jack Millikan (00:02:44):
I didn't really know anything about it or,

Jack Millikan (00:02:46):
how to go about it.

Jack Millikan (00:02:48):
And I had tried before to go and quit out of it,

Jack Millikan (00:02:52):
but there was no incentive for me to really,

Jack Millikan (00:02:56):
really stop.

Jack Millikan (00:02:56):
And so I just kind of put a parameter in place with one of my friends like,

Jack Millikan (00:03:00):
hey,

Jack Millikan (00:03:00):
if I drink at all during this time period,

Jack Millikan (00:03:02):
I'll give you $500.

Jack Millikan (00:03:03):
And that was enough to really hurt me if I were to spend it.

Colin Casey (00:03:07):
Did they drink with you though or were they sober?

Jack Millikan (00:03:10):
They were drinking also.

Jack Millikan (00:03:11):
Yeah, they were also drinking.

Jack Millikan (00:03:12):
So I was just kind of doing it solo.

Colin Casey (00:03:14):
So did they try to do it with you or no?

Jack Millikan (00:03:15):
No, they didn't try to do it with me.

Jack Millikan (00:03:17):
I just did it solo for throughout the year.

Jack Millikan (00:03:19):
And so that was a very sobering... Did you ever have to pay $500?

Jack Millikan (00:03:23):
Never had to pay $500.

Jack Millikan (00:03:24):
That's awesome.

Colin Casey (00:03:25):
There you go.

Rachel Casey (00:03:28):
There were times where I was just about to.

Rachel Casey (00:03:30):
Yeah, that's one hell of an incentive to try to keep yourself accountable for sure.

Colin Casey (00:03:36):
Well, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, what happens if I did that?

Colin Casey (00:03:42):
and then I drink, I would be like, but I don't have $500.

Jack Millikan (00:03:44):
Yeah, that's right.

Colin Casey (00:03:46):
That's right.

Jack Millikan (00:03:47):
And what are we going to do here?

Colin Casey (00:03:49):
And it's like, how did you buy that alcohol?

Colin Casey (00:03:51):
And it's like, well, that doesn't count.

Colin Casey (00:03:53):
And I don't know why that doesn't count, but it never did in my head.

Colin Casey (00:03:56):
Like, it's a necessity.

Colin Casey (00:03:57):
It's like paper towels,

Colin Casey (00:03:59):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:04:00):
like,

Colin Casey (00:04:03):
I don't obviously we don't think of it that way now,

Colin Casey (00:04:06):
but it used to be that it's ironic when people are like,

Colin Casey (00:04:10):
oh,

Colin Casey (00:04:10):
yeah,

Colin Casey (00:04:10):
like,

Colin Casey (00:04:11):
You can't afford something, yet you have a shit ton of alcohol.

Colin Casey (00:04:15):
It's like priorities.

Colin Casey (00:04:17):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:04:19):
So at 24, like, is there a specific just...

Colin Casey (00:04:23):
When you said, okay, I want to put parameters.

Colin Casey (00:04:25):
Did you try multiple times before that to kind of lower the drinking?

Rachel Casey (00:04:29):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:04:30):
Cause $500 is a pretty, that seems like your almost final move.

Rachel Casey (00:04:34):
Like if nothing's worked before I got to do something really big to make myself not drinking.

Rachel Casey (00:04:40):
So were there other things you tried that just didn't work?

Colin Casey (00:04:43):
Well, I did the a hundred dollars, but not five.

Colin Casey (00:04:45):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:04:46):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:04:46):
A hundred percent.

Jack Millikan (00:04:47):
It was,

Jack Millikan (00:04:47):
I don't think I ever put money in place before that,

Jack Millikan (00:04:49):
other than just thinking that I could just say,

Jack Millikan (00:04:51):
yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:04:51):
I can,

Jack Millikan (00:04:51):
I can stop this.

Jack Millikan (00:04:52):
And then the social pressure.

Jack Millikan (00:04:54):
You know, if I wanted to do that, I would have to be alone at all times.

Jack Millikan (00:04:57):
I could not go out and see people because when I'm out and socializing,

Jack Millikan (00:05:00):
it's just so I want to do it so bad.

Jack Millikan (00:05:04):
And so, yeah, the five hundred dollars.

Jack Millikan (00:05:07):
But first I had to become like an honest person, which was actually an interesting thing.

Jack Millikan (00:05:11):
Not that I never was a super dishonest person,

Jack Millikan (00:05:13):
but I had to be the type of person that it would hurt me and cost me more to be

Jack Millikan (00:05:18):
lying to someone that I care about and trust than it would to pay them the actual

Jack Millikan (00:05:22):
five hundred dollars.

Colin Casey (00:05:24):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:05:24):
And I feel that because I even noticed when I first got sober,

Colin Casey (00:05:30):
I,

Colin Casey (00:05:30):
when I got drunk,

Colin Casey (00:05:31):
actually when I wasn't drunk,

Colin Casey (00:05:33):
but I was drunk pretty much all the time,

Colin Casey (00:05:34):
I would exaggerate.

Colin Casey (00:05:36):
I was a big like exaggerator.

Colin Casey (00:05:39):
And even in my first year of being sober,

Colin Casey (00:05:42):
I would say something and I'd immediately go,

Colin Casey (00:05:44):
I don't know why I said that.

Colin Casey (00:05:45):
That's not true.

Colin Casey (00:05:47):
And I just felt like I needed something to fit in or to be like, if I didn't have

Colin Casey (00:05:54):
comfort pulled on me.

Colin Casey (00:05:55):
You know, I would be that person like dramatizing everything.

Colin Casey (00:06:00):
And in sobriety, that's not an honest way to live.

Rachel Casey (00:06:03):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:06:04):
To where the point, you know, I'll say I'll apologize and be like, I don't know why I said that.

Colin Casey (00:06:11):
The actual

Colin Casey (00:06:13):
Number was like, there was five people.

Colin Casey (00:06:15):
I don't know why I said 20.

Colin Casey (00:06:16):
I did it to make it sound more interesting.

Colin Casey (00:06:18):
And I'm just an autopilot liar sometimes.

Colin Casey (00:06:21):
And I don't know.

Colin Casey (00:06:22):
I don't know if that's a trait of an alcoholic.

Colin Casey (00:06:25):
Yeah, might be wanting to fit in.

Jack Millikan (00:06:28):
There's no doubt.

Jack Millikan (00:06:29):
I think I've had several friends that have gone through NAA,

Jack Millikan (00:06:32):
several that have been rehabilitated through prison.

Jack Millikan (00:06:34):
And like the theme in all of that is they like I had to go back.

Jack Millikan (00:06:38):
Like I would tell someone a silly little lie and I would have to go back and just

Jack Millikan (00:06:42):
be like,

Jack Millikan (00:06:42):
hey,

Jack Millikan (00:06:43):
I,

Jack Millikan (00:06:43):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:06:44):
didn't mean that.

Jack Millikan (00:06:44):
And it was so awkward and like the pain of that being so awkward going back and telling them.

Colin Casey (00:06:50):
Because they don't think about it.

Colin Casey (00:06:50):
Exactly.

Colin Casey (00:06:52):
So that is one thing I like to hammer down, especially like when I'm working with someone is...

Colin Casey (00:07:00):
Amends are not always there.

Colin Casey (00:07:02):
Actually, they're not always, they're never for really the other person.

Colin Casey (00:07:05):
They're for you because it does not.

Colin Casey (00:07:07):
That's why when you go to make an amend,

Colin Casey (00:07:10):
it doesn't matter what they respond because it wasn't for them.

Colin Casey (00:07:13):
It was to clear your conscience, your wrongdoing and set it straight going forward.

Colin Casey (00:07:19):
Um, which is why I will make amends with things.

Colin Casey (00:07:22):
Cause it's like, I'm holding onto it.

Colin Casey (00:07:24):
So that's my part.

Colin Casey (00:07:27):
And.

Colin Casey (00:07:29):
yeah i mean it's uh it takes practice i mean yeah i said it's been three years and

Colin Casey (00:07:36):
i mean i'll catch myself but i what would do you think i'm as bad as i used to be

Rachel Casey (00:07:41):
or no i remember some of these uh white lies because i would be joking with people

Rachel Casey (00:07:47):
like i'd be like

Rachel Casey (00:07:49):
yeah one day she went fishing and she actually caught one fish but when she'd tell

Rachel Casey (00:07:53):
the story it was she caught five fish and then a week later when she told the story

Rachel Casey (00:07:58):
a giant fish caught her and then she fought it that's right and was able to escape

Rachel Casey (00:08:03):
throw it back and then you know go away so like each time it just got more and more

Rachel Casey (00:08:08):
ridiculous however the but it it was weird because it's like

Rachel Casey (00:08:12):
this white lie really doesn't matter at all.

Rachel Casey (00:08:14):
Why are we saying, I'm just kind of nodding along.

Rachel Casey (00:08:17):
Cause after a while I just was like, I don't even care to correct her anymore.

Rachel Casey (00:08:21):
I'm just going to go with it.

Rachel Casey (00:08:23):
Um,

Rachel Casey (00:08:23):
but it is,

Rachel Casey (00:08:24):
and I do the same thing where,

Rachel Casey (00:08:26):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:08:27):
I would just say like,

Rachel Casey (00:08:29):
Oh,

Rachel Casey (00:08:29):
I read that book.

Colin Casey (00:08:30):
That, yeah.

Colin Casey (00:08:31):
He does not read books.

Colin Casey (00:08:32):
He does not read books.

Rachel Casey (00:08:34):
Or if I,

Rachel Casey (00:08:37):
halfway read a book or I'd say I finished it.

Rachel Casey (00:08:40):
I mean, just weird stuff like that.

Rachel Casey (00:08:41):
It's almost just like filler.

Rachel Casey (00:08:44):
It doesn't need to be said,

Rachel Casey (00:08:45):
but there's something in us that's like,

Rachel Casey (00:08:47):
no,

Rachel Casey (00:08:47):
you got to say it to impress them.

Rachel Casey (00:08:48):
And I think that's what alcohol and drugs did is it helped us fill those awkward

Rachel Casey (00:08:54):
gaps so we could help fit in or impress the people around us.

Colin Casey (00:09:01):
No, go ahead.

Jack Millikan (00:09:04):
That's interesting.

Jack Millikan (00:09:05):
The idea of it being a filler is just so true.

Jack Millikan (00:09:09):
To me,

Jack Millikan (00:09:10):
it's like when I think of filler like that,

Jack Millikan (00:09:13):
I think of that it's giving you like the alcohol specifically is giving you a false

Jack Millikan (00:09:18):
sense of presence to where,

Jack Millikan (00:09:20):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:09:21):
like when all of these things like I could be saying this or I should maybe I

Jack Millikan (00:09:24):
should say this or I should say this when I'm on alcohol,

Jack Millikan (00:09:27):
like you're saying the filler,

Jack Millikan (00:09:28):
it's like,

Jack Millikan (00:09:28):
oh,

Jack Millikan (00:09:28):
I don't even have to.

Jack Millikan (00:09:30):
think about these things, it just rolls off the tongue and I'm like in presence almost.

Jack Millikan (00:09:35):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:09:35):
So I was going to ask when you had friends, did you go through like college route?

Colin Casey (00:09:41):
Did you go to is that kind of where because at 24,

Colin Casey (00:09:45):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:09:45):
that's about you're kind of out of school unless you're like me.

Colin Casey (00:09:49):
I went restaurant industry after one class in college at 18.

Colin Casey (00:09:53):
And, you know, I had three credits and now now I have like 79, I think.

Colin Casey (00:10:00):
And I'm like, well, I went, I just, it always hurt me.

Colin Casey (00:10:05):
Again, not for anyone else.

Colin Casey (00:10:07):
It's not really a judging thing.

Colin Casey (00:10:08):
I wanted to have a college degree.

Colin Casey (00:10:11):
I always felt I should have.

Colin Casey (00:10:14):
I was smart.

Colin Casey (00:10:15):
I was offered scholarships.

Colin Casey (00:10:16):
I just,

Colin Casey (00:10:18):
I fell in love with alcohol and a boy and saw that I could do well in the

Colin Casey (00:10:24):
restaurant industry,

Colin Casey (00:10:25):
moved up very quickly,

Colin Casey (00:10:26):
met the right people.

Colin Casey (00:10:27):
And

Colin Casey (00:10:29):
The rest is kind of a blur.

Colin Casey (00:10:32):
But what was your experience on how it kind of involved in your early 20s?

Jack Millikan (00:10:40):
um yeah i guess you know probably contributed honestly but i i'm a high school

Jack Millikan (00:10:45):
graduate excuse me i failed out of college uh twice essentially and so uh he went

Colin Casey (00:10:52):
to collins college he went to two collins colleges i don't know how that's even

Rachel Casey (00:10:57):
possible in two different states yeah i found just colleges with my name i think

Colin Casey (00:11:02):
with college

Colin Casey (00:11:04):
I don't know that it should be forced to go.

Colin Casey (00:11:06):
I think it was expected, so it was a real disappointment when I did not go.

Colin Casey (00:11:12):
But I just didn't have it in me at the time.

Colin Casey (00:11:16):
And even if I did, I probably would have just failed out.

Colin Casey (00:11:19):
With mental health,

Colin Casey (00:11:20):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:11:20):
I just took a class about digital media because everything's going towards that.

Colin Casey (00:11:26):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:11:28):
So, I mean, I think this might be a better skill than...

Colin Casey (00:11:33):
I do want to finish college, but I mean, I'm a little T toddling myself.

Colin Casey (00:11:39):
If I can make this work, I kind of want to do this.

Jack Millikan (00:11:42):
That's amazing.

Jack Millikan (00:11:43):
That's awesome to hear.

Jack Millikan (00:11:44):
That's,

Jack Millikan (00:11:45):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:11:45):
when I go to college,

Jack Millikan (00:11:46):
like I would go to visit my friends in college and the partying and stuff.

Jack Millikan (00:11:50):
And I think there are definitely instances where college is important,

Jack Millikan (00:11:53):
but I'm pretty cynical around college and just seeing when I would go to visit,

Jack Millikan (00:11:59):
it was just people were there for the college experience,

Jack Millikan (00:12:02):
whatever that is.

Jack Millikan (00:12:03):
which this has just been ingrained into our brains, the college experience.

Jack Millikan (00:12:07):
You can create your own college experience outside of it without going into $50,000 a debt.

Jack Millikan (00:12:11):
Oh, you can.

Jack Millikan (00:12:11):
Yes, I did.

Jack Millikan (00:12:12):
Yeah, that's right.

Rachel Casey (00:12:13):
I think a lot of movies and shows or –

Rachel Casey (00:12:18):
You know,

Rachel Casey (00:12:18):
things that we grow up like when we're in junior high and high school,

Rachel Casey (00:12:21):
we see like,

Rachel Casey (00:12:22):
oh,

Rachel Casey (00:12:23):
college is about letting loose and the party.

Rachel Casey (00:12:24):
And I remember being in it going,

Rachel Casey (00:12:26):
I'm not really focusing on actually what I'm supposed to be doing.

Rachel Casey (00:12:30):
And then I would just be like, but that's future Collins problem.

Rachel Casey (00:12:33):
He'll figure it out.

Rachel Casey (00:12:34):
He'll figure out a lot.

Rachel Casey (00:12:36):
Get a job.

Rachel Casey (00:12:36):
And.

Rachel Casey (00:12:37):
You know, right now, I don't need to worry about, you know, tomorrow's homework assignment.

Rachel Casey (00:12:41):
I just need to worry about,

Rachel Casey (00:12:43):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:12:43):
how can I turn this five dollars in the most amount of alcohol I can?

Jack Millikan (00:12:48):
Yeah, that's absolutely right.

Jack Millikan (00:12:49):
You know,

Jack Millikan (00:12:51):
it's like both in alcohol and being sober and with my business,

Jack Millikan (00:12:55):
whatever it is,

Jack Millikan (00:12:55):
like I always thought the motivation was going to eventually come.

Jack Millikan (00:12:58):
Like when you talk about future comments from, well, the motivation will eventually be there.

Jack Millikan (00:13:03):
Someday.

Jack Millikan (00:13:03):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:13:04):
Or you would say, I need this like weed or alcohol to fuel my creative side.

Rachel Casey (00:13:10):
And that's what will get me to the finish line.

Colin Casey (00:13:12):
So then it doesn't.

Rachel Casey (00:13:13):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:13:14):
But then it doesn't.

Colin Casey (00:13:15):
And then you're like, well, let's just get fucked up instead.

Colin Casey (00:13:18):
Like that sounds like, you know, because I'm already halfway there.

Colin Casey (00:13:21):
So what is with relationships and stuff?

Colin Casey (00:13:26):
Are you

Colin Casey (00:13:27):
Married, single, in a relationship, how's that working right now?

Jack Millikan (00:13:31):
Yeah, single and dating, I've actually,

Colin Casey (00:13:36):
How's that going?

Colin Casey (00:13:36):
Well,

Jack Millikan (00:13:36):
it's interesting because as far as religious goes,

Jack Millikan (00:13:39):
like I would consider myself an agnostic,

Jack Millikan (00:13:41):
but I'm pretty deeply embedded in a Christian community and there are a lot of them

Jack Millikan (00:13:44):
are pretty much sober.

Jack Millikan (00:13:46):
So like I'm actually in a community that is is also similar in that regard.

Jack Millikan (00:13:52):
But before that, it was it was.

Jack Millikan (00:13:54):
Yeah, like dating was I was just like, what am I going to do?

Jack Millikan (00:13:56):
I don't know.

Jack Millikan (00:13:57):
Dating apps are not the way.

Jack Millikan (00:13:59):
can't go out to the bars to meet people uh we met on tinder there you go that's

Jack Millikan (00:14:03):
great i think there are definitely success stories on there there's no that was

Colin Casey (00:14:06):
nine years ago and it was a different time yeah i think there's a well there's the

Jack Millikan (00:14:11):
stigma i'm sure you guys have heard this or said this before if you know alcohol is

Jack Millikan (00:14:15):
the only drug that people think you have a problem if if when you don't do it um

Colin Casey (00:14:21):
yeah it's true that's

Colin Casey (00:14:24):
yeah that's the timeline yeah so yeah but i mean if you want it yeah i'd love to

Jack Millikan (00:14:29):
it's like there's a couple things i mean on a practical level you know just it's

Jack Millikan (00:14:33):
really nice to not have to surround your dates around alcohol it's surrounding them

Jack Millikan (00:14:37):
and around activities where you get to know people a little bit better um

Colin Casey (00:14:40):
What about a bad day, though?

Colin Casey (00:14:42):
Because that's what I used to be.

Jack Millikan (00:14:44):
Yeah, that's a little.

Jack Millikan (00:14:47):
Yeah, I can empathize with that.

Jack Millikan (00:14:49):
I do like a layering thing where it's like, OK, we're going to do three different things.

Jack Millikan (00:14:52):
We'll drive separate.

Jack Millikan (00:14:54):
And then,

Jack Millikan (00:14:54):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:14:54):
if the first part doesn't go off,

Jack Millikan (00:14:57):
you can say my grandma just,

Jack Millikan (00:14:58):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:14:59):
has cataracts or something and I need to go help her.

Jack Millikan (00:15:01):
Oh, my God.

Colin Casey (00:15:02):
Have you used that before?

Jack Millikan (00:15:04):
I haven't had to use that one specifically, but I'm not against it.

Colin Casey (00:15:06):
What's your worst line that you've used?

Rachel Casey (00:15:08):
I don't know, but I like the cataracts.

Colin Casey (00:15:11):
What's the word?

Colin Casey (00:15:12):
You can't think of the worst thing you've been like,

Rachel Casey (00:15:14):
I got to get out of this to get out of a date or something or something.

Rachel Casey (00:15:18):
I don't know.

Rachel Casey (00:15:18):
I haven't.

Rachel Casey (00:15:19):
It's been so long since I've actually dated.

Colin Casey (00:15:21):
Everyone loves him, too.

Colin Casey (00:15:23):
So it's really hard.

Colin Casey (00:15:24):
He's like he's friends with the person who he went to high school with in elementary with and.

Colin Casey (00:15:29):
you're you we have we hang out with your high school week it's called the high

Colin Casey (00:15:32):
school friend group and they're still all friends and live in this neighborhood it

Rachel Casey (00:15:37):
helps when yeah you're still in the neighborhood so are you still in the

Rachel Casey (00:15:39):
neighborhood where you grew up then because you said you're kind of in a christian

Jack Millikan (00:15:43):
community so i grew up in a catholic community i am still in that neighborhood but

Jack Millikan (00:15:46):
the christian community is is a little outside of this but essentially yes do you

Rachel Casey (00:15:51):
recovering cow yeah do you think that helps as far as staying sober since you said

Rachel Casey (00:15:55):
they're not real big drinkers anyway there's no doubt about it yeah there's no

Jack Millikan (00:15:58):
doubt about it i mean like 100 bar none 100 it's just i don't have the desire to do

Jack Millikan (00:16:05):
it around them and the quality of conversation for me is just better with these

Jack Millikan (00:16:09):
people when we're sober anyway so um it just i was getting into that cycle of

Jack Millikan (00:16:15):
of like we'd go to the bar and it was exciting and you're like,

Jack Millikan (00:16:17):
oh,

Jack Millikan (00:16:17):
what's going to happen next?

Jack Millikan (00:16:18):
I don't even let's say until three and who knows what's going to happen.

Jack Millikan (00:16:20):
And then after enough times,

Jack Millikan (00:16:22):
I'm just for me,

Jack Millikan (00:16:23):
I've just started like,

Jack Millikan (00:16:24):
OK,

Jack Millikan (00:16:24):
well,

Jack Millikan (00:16:24):
we know what's going to happen now.

Jack Millikan (00:16:25):
The novelty of this is gone.

Jack Millikan (00:16:27):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:16:28):
Oh, yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:16:29):
Your bars stay open later.

Rachel Casey (00:16:31):
They close at two.

Colin Casey (00:16:32):
I forgot about that.

Rachel Casey (00:16:34):
I think it's four in Illinois.

Rachel Casey (00:16:36):
And is it three where you are?

Rachel Casey (00:16:37):
Yeah, we have.

Colin Casey (00:16:38):
It was five in Chicago, right?

Colin Casey (00:16:40):
Because we stayed at a bar till I think 5 a.m.

Rachel Casey (00:16:42):
Oh, so maybe it was four.

Jack Millikan (00:16:43):
We've got some that are one,

Jack Millikan (00:16:44):
one o'clock and three o'clock or kind of there's a couple,

Jack Millikan (00:16:46):
some of their three,

Jack Millikan (00:16:47):
some of their one and then.

Rachel Casey (00:16:48):
Well,

Rachel Casey (00:16:48):
you did say I know in your bio and you said this earlier that you started drinking

Rachel Casey (00:16:52):
at 14 and then you came from,

Rachel Casey (00:16:54):
like you said,

Rachel Casey (00:16:55):
Christian or Catholic,

Rachel Casey (00:16:57):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:16:57):
really upbringing family.

Rachel Casey (00:16:58):
And I think that's one of the things because you and I are polar opposite on this

Rachel Casey (00:17:02):
is just our upbringing and how alcohol doesn't really pick or choose.

Rachel Casey (00:17:07):
Same with drugs in general or a lot of addictions.

Rachel Casey (00:17:10):
You know,

Rachel Casey (00:17:10):
if it grabs a hold of you,

Rachel Casey (00:17:11):
it's not because of the demographic you're in or your family or your upbringing.

Rachel Casey (00:17:16):
It just,

Rachel Casey (00:17:16):
for whatever reason,

Rachel Casey (00:17:18):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:17:19):
then,

Rachel Casey (00:17:20):
but you saying,

Rachel Casey (00:17:20):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:17:21):
you're 14 is when you started drinking.

Rachel Casey (00:17:23):
So how did you, was it a secretive drinking school or how did you keep that under wraps?

Rachel Casey (00:17:29):
Because was that the start of it just progressing to where it got to where you're

Rachel Casey (00:17:33):
23 and say,

Rachel Casey (00:17:34):
I got to try to quit this for a year for professional reasons?

Jack Millikan (00:17:37):
Yeah, it was, it was definitely secretive.

Jack Millikan (00:17:39):
I mean,

Jack Millikan (00:17:39):
my parents,

Jack Millikan (00:17:40):
I hid it from them for the most part unless,

Jack Millikan (00:17:42):
and then there were some instances where I came home with throw up.

Jack Millikan (00:17:45):
and then you know obviously they knew what was going on but they never really they

Jack Millikan (00:17:49):
were very they were very careful around around disciplining me around that kind of

Jack Millikan (00:17:52):
stuff they never really grounded me or anything like that it was more of just like

Jack Millikan (00:17:56):
a serious conversation of hey you know what are you doing and what's going on here

Jack Millikan (00:17:59):
you know you're just not not being safe but um and it just uh it was a social thing

Jack Millikan (00:18:04):
it progressed from there it was like okay like i was the kid that could get alcohol

Jack Millikan (00:18:08):
for the other kids because they had an older sister um that would that would get it

Jack Millikan (00:18:11):
for me they you know or pull the hey mister or whatever but

Jack Millikan (00:18:15):
So that like it just gave me a sense of importance that,

Jack Millikan (00:18:20):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:18:21):
obviously that novelty went away once people could start buying alcohol themselves.

Rachel Casey (00:18:26):
But that was definitely a status.

Rachel Casey (00:18:27):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:18:28):
If you were the person that could get stuff, you know, then you're the go-to guy.

Rachel Casey (00:18:32):
Yeah, that's right.

Jack Millikan (00:18:33):
Do you guys think,

Jack Millikan (00:18:34):
I'd be curious to hear what you have to say,

Jack Millikan (00:18:36):
given,

Jack Millikan (00:18:36):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:18:37):
how much more experience you have in this world than I do.

Jack Millikan (00:18:39):
Oh my God.

Rachel Casey (00:18:42):
I'm going to die right now.

Jack Millikan (00:18:44):
Not the sense of drinking.

Colin Casey (00:18:45):
I'll change them.

Colin Casey (00:18:48):
Look, I can fit in.

Colin Casey (00:18:50):
I'm millennial.

Colin Casey (00:18:51):
I'm so cool.

Colin Casey (00:18:54):
with her she was trying not to wear ankle socks i called my sister who's 27 and i'm

Jack Millikan (00:18:58):
like what are the lord i only do ankle i don't do the tall socks ever okay that is

Jack Millikan (00:19:04):
like high school level stuff

Rachel Casey (00:19:06):
Oh, tall socks is high school.

Rachel Casey (00:19:08):
Okay, so you're okay.

Colin Casey (00:19:08):
We grew up with, I would fold my socks to make sure they didn't show.

Colin Casey (00:19:13):
If I had higher socks,

Colin Casey (00:19:15):
you fold them halfway and hide it in your shoe because it was like the opposite of like,

Colin Casey (00:19:20):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:19:21):
in the middle age,

Colin Casey (00:19:22):
they're like,

Colin Casey (00:19:23):
oh,

Colin Casey (00:19:23):
you're wearing like a low sock or whatever.

Colin Casey (00:19:26):
They can see skin on your knee or whatever.

Colin Casey (00:19:28):
And now I'm like,

Colin Casey (00:19:29):
There are no socks.

Colin Casey (00:19:30):
I want you to think I'm not wearing socks, but I am.

Rachel Casey (00:19:33):
That's right.

Rachel Casey (00:19:34):
I respect that.

Rachel Casey (00:19:35):
What was your question?

Colin Casey (00:19:38):
We have more life experience.

Colin Casey (00:19:41):
Oh my God.

Colin Casey (00:19:43):
He's 10 years older than you.

Colin Casey (00:19:45):
He could give you, I'm, we're the same.

Colin Casey (00:19:50):
No, I'm 30.

Jack Millikan (00:19:51):
But in regards to your guys' experience with AA, right?

Jack Millikan (00:19:58):
Do you think that

Jack Millikan (00:20:00):
an alcoholic or someone that's addicted to something,

Jack Millikan (00:20:01):
does it always have to be that they're filling a hole or,

Jack Millikan (00:20:05):
or could it just be like,

Jack Millikan (00:20:06):
I don't know if that way your circumstance was Colin,

Jack Millikan (00:20:08):
but.

Rachel Casey (00:20:10):
I think in the beginning it helps because you hear stories about this.

Rachel Casey (00:20:16):
And I know I did this and Rachel did this where once you quit a substance that that

Rachel Casey (00:20:21):
hole needs to be filled with something.

Rachel Casey (00:20:23):
So you hear sugar, people eating lots of chocolates, coffee.

Rachel Casey (00:20:27):
I started drinking ton of coffee.

Rachel Casey (00:20:29):
It didn't even matter if it was good coffee or bad coffee.

Rachel Casey (00:20:34):
I just needed some sort of I almost just needed this motion.

Rachel Casey (00:20:38):
you know because and i even think people who quit cigarettes you know they'll have

Rachel Casey (00:20:43):
toothpicks in their mouth a lot of time because they just need something uh they

Rachel Casey (00:20:48):
kind of simulate you know a cigarette right you know in their mouth or something

Rachel Casey (00:20:51):
like that or they'll start eating uh like lollipops or something like that lollipop

Rachel Casey (00:20:57):
or just something in that motion but i think after a while you get used to not

Rachel Casey (00:21:03):
feeling it but you might work out more try to balance it a little better

Rachel Casey (00:21:08):
But in the beginning, I think, yeah, most of the time people find something else to fill it in.

Rachel Casey (00:21:13):
That's why I think it's dangerous when people stop drinking.

Rachel Casey (00:21:16):
They say, I'm just going to do weed.

Rachel Casey (00:21:18):
Well, then you're going to start smoking alcoholically and

Rachel Casey (00:21:22):
you're going to fill it too much to where that's going to become your new addiction

Rachel Casey (00:21:26):
rather than something like working out or eating too much chocolate or too much coffee,

Rachel Casey (00:21:32):
not great things,

Rachel Casey (00:21:33):
but better than another mind altering substance like weed can do.

Rachel Casey (00:21:38):
There's no.

Jack Millikan (00:21:39):
Yeah, that's this.

Jack Millikan (00:21:40):
What are your thoughts?

Jack Millikan (00:21:41):
Yeah, well, this this time, that's very interesting this time around.

Jack Millikan (00:21:44):
So in 2024, I did no alcohol.

Jack Millikan (00:21:47):
And then this time around, I'm doing or in 2023, I did no alcohol.

Jack Millikan (00:21:51):
or whatever the year was and then this time around i'm doing no alcohol no weed

Jack Millikan (00:21:54):
also um and just trying to go completely completely sober um and yeah as far as

Jack Millikan (00:22:00):
filling a hole goes yeah i don't know if it was it was definitely a confidence

Jack Millikan (00:22:04):
thing it was definitely i think i of like uh you know when i'm sober the thing that

Jack Millikan (00:22:09):
i'm getting over right now is i'm very anxious in the world like i'm thinking every

Jack Millikan (00:22:13):
single thing every possibility that could go wrong

Jack Millikan (00:22:15):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:22:16):
could this person want to fight us or is this person,

Jack Millikan (00:22:18):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:22:18):
going to try to solicit us or whatever it is,

Jack Millikan (00:22:21):
any possible thing.

Jack Millikan (00:22:22):
And then when I would drink alcohol,

Jack Millikan (00:22:24):
like the hole it was filling is,

Jack Millikan (00:22:25):
is all of that would go away and I would be an absolute presence.

Jack Millikan (00:22:30):
Like almost like I was cheat coding the meditation that we're supposed to spend

Jack Millikan (00:22:33):
hours and years on getting good at and whatever.

Jack Millikan (00:22:36):
It was like a quick cheat code,

Jack Millikan (00:22:37):
uh,

Jack Millikan (00:22:38):
to,

Jack Millikan (00:22:38):
to having that and then filling that hole into where now I,

Jack Millikan (00:22:41):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:22:43):
I'm in a state that a lot of people are trying to get to.

Jack Millikan (00:22:46):
through all of these holistic things over years and years and years.

Jack Millikan (00:22:49):
And I can do it in a night.

Rachel Casey (00:22:51):
What differences do you find?

Rachel Casey (00:22:54):
So the year when you stopped drinking,

Rachel Casey (00:22:56):
but obviously you still smoked to where now you've cut both things out.

Rachel Casey (00:23:01):
What are the big differences?

Rachel Casey (00:23:02):
Because I'm sure your smoking went up when you stopped drinking.

Jack Millikan (00:23:06):
Oh, absolutely.

Jack Millikan (00:23:07):
Yeah, no doubt about it.

Jack Millikan (00:23:08):
And so I'm a social drinker and I'm a solo smoker.

Jack Millikan (00:23:12):
And so if I'm getting high, I'm doing it alone.

Jack Millikan (00:23:16):
And and now it's just I'm just

Jack Millikan (00:23:18):
getting things done more.

Jack Millikan (00:23:19):
I, you know, I started my business.

Jack Millikan (00:23:22):
And so like I had a North star to work towards.

Jack Millikan (00:23:25):
I'm like, I just can't be like, if I'm getting high, I'm not going to be productive.

Jack Millikan (00:23:28):
I'm not going to be doing any of these things.

Jack Millikan (00:23:29):
And getting high is extremely fun too.

Jack Millikan (00:23:31):
It enhances the movies I was watching, the music I was listening to.

Jack Millikan (00:23:35):
um but but the chips you're eating it's like i'm not there but i'm there yeah like

Jack Millikan (00:23:41):
i get excited just thinking about it right now but you know i'm telling you i think

Colin Casey (00:23:45):
food tastes so much better in sobriety yeah i'm so my sister sent me also some

Colin Casey (00:23:50):
questions so i was like okay she said i was like i could phone her in and have her

Colin Casey (00:23:55):
ask but she'd be giggling the whole time um she wants to know you know my sister so

Colin Casey (00:24:02):
she's so also she's kind of

Colin Casey (00:24:04):
She also participates in a church community.

Colin Casey (00:24:11):
She said...

Colin Casey (00:24:13):
what's your biggest guilty pleasure besides alcohol, obviously.

Colin Casey (00:24:17):
I was like, oh my God.

Colin Casey (00:24:22):
And then she wants to know,

Colin Casey (00:24:24):
do you put that you're sober on your Tinder or bubble or whatever the thing is now?

Colin Casey (00:24:28):
Is it like a first date thing or a third date thing or, okay, I'm done.

Jack Millikan (00:24:34):
Oh, that's interesting.

Jack Millikan (00:24:37):
I'll start with the second question first.

Jack Millikan (00:24:38):
Like I, yeah, I'm upfront right off the bat.

Jack Millikan (00:24:41):
You know, I,

Jack Millikan (00:24:43):
I wasn't per se an alcoholic, but I'm sober.

Jack Millikan (00:24:45):
And I just think it's important to get,

Jack Millikan (00:24:49):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:24:49):
set the expectations for what the relationship is going to look like from the very beginning.

Jack Millikan (00:24:53):
Because if three dates in,

Jack Millikan (00:24:55):
that's,

Jack Millikan (00:24:56):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:24:56):
the person I'm dating,

Jack Millikan (00:24:57):
she discovers that three dates in,

Jack Millikan (00:25:01):
and she's disappointed by it,

Jack Millikan (00:25:02):
then,

Jack Millikan (00:25:03):
you know.

Colin Casey (00:25:06):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:25:06):
I mean, I know we had talked about

Colin Casey (00:25:13):
Well, it's not even talked.

Colin Casey (00:25:14):
I think more, I didn't know that we were going to stay together.

Colin Casey (00:25:17):
And I've said that multiple times,

Colin Casey (00:25:18):
like on the podcast,

Colin Casey (00:25:20):
because at first he didn't know that he quite had a problem.

Colin Casey (00:25:23):
And I mean, it was hard.

Colin Casey (00:25:24):
We didn't,

Colin Casey (00:25:25):
our recovery lifestyles,

Colin Casey (00:25:29):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:25:29):
obviously no alcohol home,

Colin Casey (00:25:31):
but the ways we went about it were very different until probably about a year and a half.

Colin Casey (00:25:37):
And then we've kind of been

Colin Casey (00:25:40):
equally, but we needed to get our own foundation.

Colin Casey (00:25:42):
So we kind of were like very separate in our own little recovery things or items

Colin Casey (00:25:49):
and very now together.

Colin Casey (00:25:50):
But, uh,

Colin Casey (00:25:54):
If I had had the hypothetical in my head,

Colin Casey (00:25:56):
like if we were to get divorced,

Colin Casey (00:25:57):
like asking him,

Colin Casey (00:25:58):
would you date someone that's sober?

Colin Casey (00:26:00):
Because like now you're bringing my son into it.

Colin Casey (00:26:02):
And I said, I wouldn't.

Colin Casey (00:26:04):
They would have to be sober.

Colin Casey (00:26:06):
Like that's that would just be for me forever.

Colin Casey (00:26:08):
So if we get divorced and I asked you if I died, would you marry someone sober?

Colin Casey (00:26:15):
And you're like, I don't know.

Colin Casey (00:26:16):
Depends like I need to know this from the grave.

Rachel Casey (00:26:22):
Yeah, I don't think about questions like that.

Rachel Casey (00:26:24):
Like what happens?

Colin Casey (00:26:25):
Do you have Evan live with someone who's not sober?

Rachel Casey (00:26:29):
We'll get there when we get there.

Rachel Casey (00:26:31):
It's one of those.

Rachel Casey (00:26:32):
Yeah, I don't think too much about someone else's demise, what I would do.

Colin Casey (00:26:38):
I need to know.

Rachel Casey (00:26:41):
But that is interesting how you put it up front in your bio that you are sober because,

Rachel Casey (00:26:47):
yeah,

Rachel Casey (00:26:47):
you would have to go that route.

Rachel Casey (00:26:49):
What was the other question?

Colin Casey (00:26:51):
Well,

Colin Casey (00:26:51):
you said you would you're like,

Colin Casey (00:26:53):
well,

Colin Casey (00:26:53):
there are people that in a like they'll date someone outside the program and

Colin Casey (00:26:57):
they'll have like one or two and it doesn't really bother.

Colin Casey (00:27:00):
I said, yeah, for me, while it doesn't bother me, I'd rather have the commonality.

Colin Casey (00:27:04):
I don't want that to have to smell alcohol in someone's breath.

Colin Casey (00:27:07):
I don't want to have to.

Colin Casey (00:27:08):
I don't know.

Colin Casey (00:27:09):
I just it's not my lifestyle anymore.

Colin Casey (00:27:12):
Like.

Rachel Casey (00:27:13):
Well, yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:27:13):
Do you have a preference, Jack?

Rachel Casey (00:27:14):
I mean, do you?

Colin Casey (00:27:15):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:27:15):
Would you kiss someone after they're like drinking a glass of wine?

Colin Casey (00:27:20):
I don't want to do that.

Colin Casey (00:27:21):
I wouldn't want to do it.

Rachel Casey (00:27:22):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:27:22):
Are you looking for someone that's just as sober as you or?

Rachel Casey (00:27:26):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:27:26):
You know, who knows after?

Rachel Casey (00:27:29):
Do you plan to stay sober for the rest of your life?

Colin Casey (00:27:31):
You don't know that everything's one day at a time.

Colin Casey (00:27:33):
You should never ask someone because no one can answer that question.

Rachel Casey (00:27:36):
OK, so I could never answer the question you gave me.

Colin Casey (00:27:39):
I just.

Rachel Casey (00:27:43):
I turned it around.

Jack Millikan (00:27:44):
Lawyer.

Jack Millikan (00:27:46):
That's a great.

Jack Millikan (00:27:47):
I, I, yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:27:49):
I don't see myself,

Jack Millikan (00:27:50):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:27:51):
per se being sober the rest of my life,

Jack Millikan (00:27:52):
but like Rachel saying,

Jack Millikan (00:27:53):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:27:53):
I never,

Jack Millikan (00:27:53):
you never know.

Jack Millikan (00:27:54):
It could just be the right thing.

Jack Millikan (00:27:56):
But I'm, first of all, I would definitely kiss a girl that just had some wine.

Jack Millikan (00:27:59):
I think that's totally down for that.

Jack Millikan (00:28:01):
All right.

Rachel Casey (00:28:03):
We'll put that in the program.

Jack Millikan (00:28:04):
That's right.

Jack Millikan (00:28:05):
It's more about the lifestyle thing to me.

Jack Millikan (00:28:06):
Like if, you know, if we're going out and she has a glass of wine at dinner and,

Jack Millikan (00:28:10):
or even two that like that's great i'm not here to be against that or not be around

Jack Millikan (00:28:15):
that but if she's going out and getting blasted until 3 a.m and at the bars that's

Jack Millikan (00:28:19):
a lifestyle position that i'm just not in you don't want to be carrying her home no

Jack Millikan (00:28:23):
no no i don't want to be going out to the bars at all in the first place i mean

Jack Millikan (00:28:26):
it's just i don't even want to go out there you know for nine times out of ten so

Jack Millikan (00:28:30):
um i yeah yeah lifestyle before actual alcohol involved or not

Colin Casey (00:28:37):
So do you have it on your profile or no?

Colin Casey (00:28:39):
You have that more as like a once we connect, we'll talk about it.

Jack Millikan (00:28:42):
I've deleted my dating.

Jack Millikan (00:28:44):
I've deleted the social media or the online dating since recently.

Colin Casey (00:28:49):
You're going to have to email his business email, which we will put in the show notes.

Colin Casey (00:28:53):
If this is something, if you're in St.

Colin Casey (00:28:55):
Louis and this is our new sober banter connections.

Jack Millikan (00:28:59):
Yeah, there we go.

Colin Casey (00:29:00):
I love it.

Jack Millikan (00:29:00):
Yeah, I'm totally down.

Jack Millikan (00:29:02):
That's so.

Colin Casey (00:29:08):
yeah you're just kind of living and you you work with the youth group you don't do

Jack Millikan (00:29:12):
you go to aa meetings or no no i don't i this is all just kind of been a solo

Jack Millikan (00:29:16):
endeavor um now now my bid is a thousand dollars now and not five hundred dollars

Jack Millikan (00:29:21):
and so that's definitely and i mean for me you know that's how you know you made it

Colin Casey (00:29:28):
right now i would be like

Colin Casey (00:29:31):
We moved up.

Jack Millikan (00:29:32):
We up.

Jack Millikan (00:29:33):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:29:33):
I'll tell you what, there's no way I'm paying.

Jack Millikan (00:29:35):
There's no way I'm paying that.

Colin Casey (00:29:36):
So no way.

Colin Casey (00:29:38):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:29:38):
Well,

Colin Casey (00:29:38):
I guess you have an expiration date that you're like,

Colin Casey (00:29:40):
you reset it and reevaluate yourself.

Jack Millikan (00:29:42):
Yeah, that's right.

Jack Millikan (00:29:43):
That's exactly right.

Jack Millikan (00:29:43):
And so like the last one that I did, I did, I started drinking as much as I wanted to.

Jack Millikan (00:29:47):
And then I was just like, this is too much.

Jack Millikan (00:29:49):
I'm trying to build something here.

Jack Millikan (00:29:51):
So then I switched it over to once a month for a hundred dollars.

Jack Millikan (00:29:55):
And then I would found myself being willing to pay the a hundred dollars.

Jack Millikan (00:29:58):
And so

Jack Millikan (00:30:00):
It's just like, you know what?

Jack Millikan (00:30:01):
Let's just go back to it.

Jack Millikan (00:30:02):
Let's just go back all in.

Colin Casey (00:30:05):
All in.

Colin Casey (00:30:05):
Okay.

Colin Casey (00:30:06):
Well, I thought it might be fun.

Colin Casey (00:30:08):
I Googled, well, I printed out the top 10 most Googled questions for a sober December.

Colin Casey (00:30:15):
Okay.

Colin Casey (00:30:16):
Like a holiday.

Colin Casey (00:30:17):
You want me to read a few?

Colin Casey (00:30:19):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:30:19):
And we'll just see what.

Colin Casey (00:30:22):
So how do you avoid triggers

Colin Casey (00:30:26):
Like or staying away from people,

Colin Casey (00:30:28):
places or situations that remind you or you're around people that are drinking heavily,

Colin Casey (00:30:34):
like at the family.

Jack Millikan (00:30:35):
Yeah, this this is not I do not suggest other people do it this way.

Jack Millikan (00:30:38):
And this is definitely not healthy,

Jack Millikan (00:30:40):
but it's definitely like in my mindset,

Jack Millikan (00:30:42):
it's like,

Jack Millikan (00:30:42):
oh,

Jack Millikan (00:30:42):
I can do this and you guys can't.

Jack Millikan (00:30:44):
You know,

Jack Millikan (00:30:45):
like if you want to you're trying to shame me into drinking or whatever it is like

Jack Millikan (00:30:49):
I'm you can't do it.

Jack Millikan (00:30:50):
So, you know, it's a pride thing.

Rachel Casey (00:30:53):
So did you lose any friends when you quit drinking or did you still see or hang out

Rachel Casey (00:30:58):
with the same people?

Jack Millikan (00:30:59):
Uh, there's no doubt I lost friends.

Jack Millikan (00:31:01):
I mean, absolutely.

Jack Millikan (00:31:02):
I figured out who was just a drinking buddy and who was a friend.

Jack Millikan (00:31:05):
Um,

Jack Millikan (00:31:06):
and I had one of my closest,

Jack Millikan (00:31:08):
one of my closest friends from that I've known for years and years and years.

Jack Millikan (00:31:11):
Like we definitely lost a lot of contact and we've since kind of worked through

Jack Millikan (00:31:16):
that and,

Jack Millikan (00:31:17):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:31:17):
really opened up to each other about it.

Jack Millikan (00:31:19):
Um,

Jack Millikan (00:31:20):
But yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:31:21):
there were people that I was just like,

Jack Millikan (00:31:22):
well,

Jack Millikan (00:31:22):
I thought we were thought we were just going to be thick and thin.

Jack Millikan (00:31:25):
And then I haven't seen you or heard from you.

Jack Millikan (00:31:26):
And I've been reaching out to you to do these things that don't involve alcohol.

Jack Millikan (00:31:30):
And the only thing you ever want to do with me is when there's alcohol involved.

Jack Millikan (00:31:33):
So,

Rachel Casey (00:31:34):
yeah,

Rachel Casey (00:31:35):
especially when there is,

Rachel Casey (00:31:37):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:31:38):
if you just want to watch a sporting event or anything like that,

Rachel Casey (00:31:42):
then they just want to drink.

Rachel Casey (00:31:44):
What about when?

Rachel Casey (00:31:46):
not when you lost friends,

Rachel Casey (00:31:48):
but you said I'm something that can do because I had that same thought like,

Rachel Casey (00:31:52):
oh,

Rachel Casey (00:31:52):
I can still do a lot of these things because I have gone to bars and met with

Rachel Casey (00:31:57):
friends or even coworkers when we have like a happy hour event that I'll just get

Rachel Casey (00:32:02):
in a beer.

Rachel Casey (00:32:04):
And now I haven't told anyone I'm drinking in a beer.

Rachel Casey (00:32:07):
No one that I actually work with knows that I'm three years sober just because I

Rachel Casey (00:32:12):
haven't started that dialogue with them.

Rachel Casey (00:32:15):
And

Rachel Casey (00:32:16):
I,

Rachel Casey (00:32:17):
um,

Rachel Casey (00:32:18):
have you had any NA beers or have done anything like that when you do go out with

Rachel Casey (00:32:22):
friends with bars?

Jack Millikan (00:32:23):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:32:23):
It's,

Jack Millikan (00:32:24):
uh,

Jack Millikan (00:32:24):
it's mostly,

Jack Millikan (00:32:24):
um,

Jack Millikan (00:32:26):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:32:26):
like for me,

Jack Millikan (00:32:28):
it's just a,

Jack Millikan (00:32:28):
it was a reframing of like,

Jack Millikan (00:32:30):
how can I be as healthy as possible?

Jack Millikan (00:32:32):
Like,

Jack Millikan (00:32:32):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:32:32):
I was talking to someone yesterday of,

Jack Millikan (00:32:34):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:32:34):
when you're healthy,

Jack Millikan (00:32:35):
being sober feels great,

Jack Millikan (00:32:36):
but when you're

Jack Millikan (00:32:37):
not healthy, you know, being so obviously being sober sucks.

Jack Millikan (00:32:41):
So yeah, so I don't I just drink water when I'm out.

Jack Millikan (00:32:44):
I like I just I want to be filling my body up with as many healthy things as possible.

Jack Millikan (00:32:49):
And water is one of those.

Rachel Casey (00:32:51):
Like Topo Chico's or the what's the other one?

Jack Millikan (00:32:55):
Liquid death?

Jack Millikan (00:32:56):
Liquid death?

Jack Millikan (00:32:57):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:32:57):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:32:58):
So my uncle,

Jack Millikan (00:33:00):
He actually started an NA brand.

Jack Millikan (00:33:02):
He's an entrepreneur and he started his own NA brand here in St.

Jack Millikan (00:33:05):
Louis.

Jack Millikan (00:33:05):
And so he does THC drinks to CBD drinks to just seltzers and very holistic kind of

Jack Millikan (00:33:11):
approach to,

Jack Millikan (00:33:12):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:33:13):
socializing with drinks.

Jack Millikan (00:33:15):
And so so that's that's having an uptick.

Rachel Casey (00:33:18):
A lot of those things and just kind of the for the sober, curious people out there and.

Rachel Casey (00:33:24):
you know, yeah, they seem to want other alternatives than just your regular alcoholic drink.

Rachel Casey (00:33:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Colin Casey (00:33:33):
So but THC beer apparently is allowed to be sold here, which is so weird.

Colin Casey (00:33:39):
So it's like na THC.

Colin Casey (00:33:41):
So it's a loophole.

Colin Casey (00:33:43):
Yeah, it's such a loophole.

Colin Casey (00:33:45):
It's half drive.

Colin Casey (00:33:46):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:33:47):
So you have drive.

Jack Millikan (00:33:48):
And then yeah, so those things get you high.

Jack Millikan (00:33:50):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:33:51):
I'm glad that you said that.

Colin Casey (00:33:52):
Okay, Evan is going to eat a piece of bread.

Colin Casey (00:33:55):
He's got it.

Colin Casey (00:33:56):
Evan, do you need help?

Rachel Casey (00:33:59):
You want to toss it to me?

Rachel Casey (00:34:01):
No, I'll do it.

Rachel Casey (00:34:02):
And I'll open it.

Rachel Casey (00:34:03):
Good God.

Colin Casey (00:34:03):
Okay, I'm just going to go on the next question.

Colin Casey (00:34:09):
It says,

Colin Casey (00:34:10):
with sober entertainment,

Colin Casey (00:34:12):
what activities would you suggest to a loved one so that way they can enjoy the

Colin Casey (00:34:17):
holidays in a sober way with you?

Jack Millikan (00:34:21):
So that they can enjoy the, it's just in general.

Colin Casey (00:34:24):
So like an activity that someone who's sober,

Colin Casey (00:34:26):
who maybe doesn't want to be like,

Colin Casey (00:34:28):
Hey,

Colin Casey (00:34:29):
here's an,

Colin Casey (00:34:30):
like,

Colin Casey (00:34:30):
not saying it's a sober activity,

Colin Casey (00:34:32):
but it says what activities don't involve alcohol.

Colin Casey (00:34:37):
So you could have,

Colin Casey (00:34:39):
a holiday like experience, like a game or suggestion.

Colin Casey (00:34:42):
I guess that was another Googled question.

Colin Casey (00:34:44):
Again, I don't have the answers.

Colin Casey (00:34:45):
I just went through the SEOs of what's the top questions Googled.

Colin Casey (00:34:50):
And that was on there.

Jack Millikan (00:34:51):
Oh gosh.

Jack Millikan (00:34:52):
I'd probably defer to your judgment on this one.

Jack Millikan (00:34:54):
All I do is work.

Jack Millikan (00:34:55):
So I don't have any, I don't have any fun things to do right now.

Colin Casey (00:34:59):
I think I'm the same mindset as you.

Colin Casey (00:35:00):
I'm like,

Colin Casey (00:35:03):
I'm not drinking it.

Colin Casey (00:35:04):
So if you guys want to drink it, fine.

Colin Casey (00:35:07):
I don't really care.

Colin Casey (00:35:08):
I just know what happens to me.

Colin Casey (00:35:12):
I'll never be able to stop.

Rachel Casey (00:35:13):
But it took you a while to get there.

Rachel Casey (00:35:15):
You, Jack, I said you were kind of indifferent by it pretty quickly.

Rachel Casey (00:35:20):
You guys can drink.

Rachel Casey (00:35:21):
It doesn't bother me.

Rachel Casey (00:35:23):
It's kind of like my superpower that I can still be around you guys and it not affect me.

Rachel Casey (00:35:28):
And that's a little bit how I was.

Rachel Casey (00:35:30):
And I think it was more of a

Rachel Casey (00:35:32):
You know,

Rachel Casey (00:35:32):
I'm going to show the world that I can still do the things I want to do and be

Rachel Casey (00:35:36):
around the people I want to be with without,

Rachel Casey (00:35:38):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:35:38):
you want to be around me.

(00:35:40):
Yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:35:41):
But like you,

Rachel Casey (00:35:41):
it took you a while to want to be around any,

Rachel Casey (00:35:43):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:35:44):
that you didn't want to be around anyone that was drinking or alcohol.

Rachel Casey (00:35:48):
And it took you a while for you to just be like until alcohol just became just like

Rachel Casey (00:35:53):
a nothing like it's just another soda on the wall.

Colin Casey (00:35:56):
I think it was until I made amends with it because I was mad at alcohol when I first got sober.

Colin Casey (00:36:01):
I thought it took away a lot of my life.

Colin Casey (00:36:02):
Like it was the reason I didn't go to college.

Colin Casey (00:36:04):
It's the reason that, you know,

Colin Casey (00:36:07):
uh i was in the situation i was in without a job without really anything to show

Colin Casey (00:36:12):
for myself and i was very angry with it and it took both of my parents away from me

Colin Casey (00:36:18):
both my parents are alcoholic so in the beginning before i did you know a fifth

Colin Casey (00:36:23):
step that's where i say amends have nothing to do with

Colin Casey (00:36:28):
alcohol it's to do with me and if i hadn't gone through all those things i wouldn't

Colin Casey (00:36:33):
be who i am today i would not have this podcast i wouldn't be talking on this

Colin Casey (00:36:36):
podcast i wouldn't have had an idea to go into school learning about addiction like

Colin Casey (00:36:42):
it it made it took time for me to see that um but at first i just didn't want to be

Colin Casey (00:36:49):
around it because it just

Colin Casey (00:36:51):
I looked at it as a life ruining substance that I'm like,

Colin Casey (00:36:55):
no one should be drinking this like everyone should be angry at it.

Colin Casey (00:36:58):
I think of alcoholism as like the seven steps of grief to you know,

Colin Casey (00:37:03):
like there's that that anger and then there's the sadness of missing it.

Colin Casey (00:37:06):
And then there's like

Colin Casey (00:37:08):
Well, you know, it's given space and then you realize how much happier you are without it.

Colin Casey (00:37:13):
And well, may not grief, like not with death.

Colin Casey (00:37:16):
You're not like, I'm so glad grandpa's gone.

Colin Casey (00:37:18):
But like, yeah, we didn't bury our alcohol.

Colin Casey (00:37:23):
And so I guess all but the very last is where you're just like in acceptance of.

Colin Casey (00:37:30):
You know, it's just not for me.

Colin Casey (00:37:32):
It did what it did.

Colin Casey (00:37:32):
And really, I'm thankful for it.

Colin Casey (00:37:34):
So now I'm.

Colin Casey (00:37:37):
I needed alcohol during some of those really hard times.

Colin Casey (00:37:39):
Like it helped me get through whatever I needed to do to now get to a place where I

Colin Casey (00:37:44):
can share that we can come out on the other side and be okay.

Jack Millikan (00:37:48):
That's,

Jack Millikan (00:37:49):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:37:49):
you said something interesting in there,

Jack Millikan (00:37:50):
Rachel,

Jack Millikan (00:37:50):
about like how,

Jack Millikan (00:37:51):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:37:53):
projecting it onto other people,

Jack Millikan (00:37:54):
like,

Jack Millikan (00:37:54):
why are you guys drinking this?

Jack Millikan (00:37:55):
And it's, so, you know, weed just became legal in Missouri in the last few years.

Colin Casey (00:38:01):
My dad grows it.

Colin Casey (00:38:02):
I know.

Colin Casey (00:38:02):
I heard.

Jack Millikan (00:38:03):
There you go.

Jack Millikan (00:38:03):
So, but, you know, we were going through

Jack Millikan (00:38:07):
I'm going through going through a debate of whether, you know, should we be legal?

Jack Millikan (00:38:12):
And, you know, here are the things that it causes.

Jack Millikan (00:38:14):
OK, should we make it legal?

Jack Millikan (00:38:16):
If we were having that same debate right now about alcoholism or about alcohol,

Jack Millikan (00:38:20):
let's say it was illegal and we were deciding if it was going to become legal.

Jack Millikan (00:38:23):
It's like, OK, well, should we make alcohol legal?

Jack Millikan (00:38:26):
You know, 80 percent of assaults happen when alcohol is involved, you know.

Jack Millikan (00:38:30):
90% of vehicle deaths happen when alcohol is involved.

Jack Millikan (00:38:34):
All of these things are involved.

Jack Millikan (00:38:35):
Should we make alcohol legal?

Jack Millikan (00:38:37):
We would all just be like, no, of course not.

Jack Millikan (00:38:39):
Look at all these things that it's associated with.

Jack Millikan (00:38:42):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:38:43):
You know, so it's just crazy to me.

Colin Casey (00:38:47):
And that's always like the point also when people are okay with people driving and weed,

Colin Casey (00:38:56):
because I feel like that's a really touchy

Colin Casey (00:38:59):
topic about driving while under the influence of... I think it's worse to drive.

Colin Casey (00:39:07):
I guess they're both bad,

Colin Casey (00:39:08):
but I think if you had your child or your mom or someone you loved get in a car

Colin Casey (00:39:15):
accident and it was caused by someone who was high,

Colin Casey (00:39:20):
would it change your stance?

Colin Casey (00:39:22):
Would you then be like, oh, it's not that bad.

Colin Casey (00:39:26):
It doesn't influence me that much.

Colin Casey (00:39:27):
It doesn't take me out...

Colin Casey (00:39:29):
It slowens your reaction time.

Colin Casey (00:39:32):
Who was the comedian?

Colin Casey (00:39:33):
Was it George Carlin who did people driving super slow?

Colin Casey (00:39:38):
On alcohol,

Colin Casey (00:39:39):
people will go super fast and be reckless,

Colin Casey (00:39:41):
but with weed,

Colin Casey (00:39:42):
it's more...

Colin Casey (00:39:42):
Yeah,

Rachel Casey (00:39:43):
really slow.

Colin Casey (00:39:44):
Oh, you're going to sit at the stop sign staring and laughing for 10 minutes.

Colin Casey (00:39:47):
And I'm like, it could be equally as bad, dude.

Rachel Casey (00:39:50):
That's why the THC beers seem interesting to me because it's like you're going to a place...

Rachel Casey (00:39:56):
to get high while you drink.

Jack Millikan (00:40:00):
Yeah, I had to be careful.

Jack Millikan (00:40:01):
I definitely could not drive on those.

Jack Millikan (00:40:03):
I get locked in.

Jack Millikan (00:40:07):
Driving on those, it's extremely dangerous.

Jack Millikan (00:40:10):
When I'm high, I fixate on things.

Jack Millikan (00:40:11):
And so if I get fixated on my steering wheel, for instance,

Jack Millikan (00:40:14):
The whole rest of the outside of my car is just non-existent to me.

Rachel Casey (00:40:19):
So what's the big difference between,

Rachel Casey (00:40:21):
cause I've never had the THC because we stopped before that was really even a thing here.

Rachel Casey (00:40:27):
Cause I assume maybe,

Rachel Casey (00:40:28):
is that what you were drinking when you stopped alcohol,

Rachel Casey (00:40:30):
but you were still smoking,

Rachel Casey (00:40:31):
you'd probably get the THC drinks.

Jack Millikan (00:40:33):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:40:34):
I was spending more time alone.

Jack Millikan (00:40:36):
Like that's something like I would never drink alone,

Jack Millikan (00:40:38):
but I would definitely drink a THC drink alone.

Jack Millikan (00:40:41):
um and it wasn't really different from getting high on on you know flour or

Jack Millikan (00:40:46):
anything like that uh it was it was yeah i mean but you would still drink it alone

Rachel Casey (00:40:52):
like you wouldn't go out like meet with your buddies at a brewery or anything and

Jack Millikan (00:40:56):
just choose that yeah no i would end up just isolating myself more so than anything

Rachel Casey (00:41:02):
Interesting.

Rachel Casey (00:41:02):
So,

Rachel Casey (00:41:03):
yeah,

Rachel Casey (00:41:03):
that's because then it's like no matter what the marijuana product is,

Rachel Casey (00:41:07):
you still have the same way of consuming it,

Rachel Casey (00:41:08):
which is kind of by yourself alone with your thoughts.

Rachel Casey (00:41:11):
And like you said earlier, it's still still that motion, right?

Rachel Casey (00:41:15):
It fills that void.

Jack Millikan (00:41:16):
So what?

Colin Casey (00:41:22):
how did you get into starting your podcast company too?

Colin Casey (00:41:26):
Like, how did that, did that just kind of stumble upon?

Colin Casey (00:41:28):
Cause now you're like really kind of into it, right?

Colin Casey (00:41:32):
You said that you're kind of not only have been on the other side,

Colin Casey (00:41:36):
but helping run others,

Colin Casey (00:41:38):
correct?

Jack Millikan (00:41:38):
Yeah, that's right.

Colin Casey (00:41:39):
How was the experience?

Jack Millikan (00:41:42):
It's been great.

Jack Millikan (00:41:42):
I started it a couple of years ago.

Jack Millikan (00:41:44):
I was working for a promotional products company in sales.

Jack Millikan (00:41:47):
So I was selling pens and koozies to corporate.

Jack Millikan (00:41:50):
And I was like, okay, this is terrible.

Rachel Casey (00:41:52):
This is awful.

Jack Millikan (00:41:55):
And so I started my own podcast and I had people asking me, can you help me start my own?

Jack Millikan (00:41:59):
And I just didn't have time.

Jack Millikan (00:42:01):
And so they offered to pay me.

Colin Casey (00:42:02):
That's a nice compliment.

Colin Casey (00:42:03):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:42:03):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:42:04):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:42:04):
That's right.

Jack Millikan (00:42:05):
So they offered to pay me and, uh,

Jack Millikan (00:42:07):
I think right after I realized there was a way to make money on this,

Jack Millikan (00:42:10):
I put my two weeks in like the next day or maybe a week later,

Jack Millikan (00:42:14):
put the two weeks in the next,

Jack Millikan (00:42:15):
as soon as I could and sort of gave myself three months to live off of money and

Jack Millikan (00:42:22):
started trying to build a business around it.

Jack Millikan (00:42:23):
And so I started picking up people and helping them with their podcasts and so on and so forth.

Jack Millikan (00:42:29):
And like,

Jack Millikan (00:42:30):
I just,

Jack Millikan (00:42:31):
I'm obsessed with it and it's just,

Jack Millikan (00:42:32):
it's a North star that has given me something to work towards and it has been,

Jack Millikan (00:42:35):
made it so much easier to,

Jack Millikan (00:42:37):
cut out every bad thing in my life any negative foods any alcohol anything like

Jack Millikan (00:42:42):
it's having a north star has just been would you say you're kind of just addictive

Rachel Casey (00:42:48):
to the productivity that it's given you well no not that but like we say like

Rachel Casey (00:42:53):
filling voids because i know that was one thing that helped was i i started just

Rachel Casey (00:42:57):
get more productive in a lot of things well your body's not dying

Rachel Casey (00:43:01):
Yeah, but I mean, I started to want to do more.

Rachel Casey (00:43:03):
I wanted to help more with family and friends that normally I would roll my eyes at

Rachel Casey (00:43:09):
if they asked for help.

Rachel Casey (00:43:10):
I just wanted to be more of service for certain things and to help around the house

Rachel Casey (00:43:14):
more where I just wanted to do things.

Rachel Casey (00:43:17):
And it's like, oh, now I have the energy I can I can give back and help.

Jack Millikan (00:43:21):
You know,

Jack Millikan (00:43:21):
it was I think it was maybe it was less not so much that,

Jack Millikan (00:43:25):
but it was like I had the clarity to find what was going what my North Star was.

Jack Millikan (00:43:30):
And once I knew what that was, it's like, OK, everything's moving towards that.

Jack Millikan (00:43:34):
So, yeah.

Colin Casey (00:43:36):
Well, you know, they say the opposite of addiction is connection and podcasting.

Colin Casey (00:43:41):
I had no idea how much connection it would bring.

Colin Casey (00:43:45):
I didn't think of it like when I even listened to the few podcasts that I have.

Colin Casey (00:43:51):
I didn't know what this little podcasting world is.

Colin Casey (00:43:55):
And it's usually full of so much love,

Colin Casey (00:43:57):
but especially if like what you have,

Colin Casey (00:43:59):
if you're good at something and you're teaching,

Colin Casey (00:44:02):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:44:03):
you're connecting.

Colin Casey (00:44:04):
And I think that that can be more filling than alcohol ever is.

Colin Casey (00:44:11):
Even like we're connecting with you right now.

Colin Casey (00:44:13):
Like this is very...

Colin Casey (00:44:15):
it's nice to meet like-minded people and like have a shared lifestyle even you know

Colin Casey (00:44:24):
but the podcasting thing i mean there are levels that you make someone's day like

Colin Casey (00:44:29):
cut in half in time and you see the excitement on their face because you just

Colin Casey (00:44:33):
showed them what they've been like struggling with for hours i mean that has to be

Colin Casey (00:44:37):
like

Colin Casey (00:44:39):
you just help someone and like essentially change their life of what they're doing,

Colin Casey (00:44:43):
something they love and helping them achieve that passion.

Jack Millikan (00:44:46):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:44:47):
Right.

Jack Millikan (00:44:47):
There's no doubt.

Jack Millikan (00:44:48):
There's no doubt about it.

Jack Millikan (00:44:49):
It's so fulfilling.

Jack Millikan (00:44:50):
Just having, you know, just, just long form conversation is, is,

Jack Millikan (00:44:55):
Like we see it dying with the TikTok and the shorts and these things that are

Jack Millikan (00:44:58):
getting put out and our attention spans are being shot to see that rapport being built.

Jack Millikan (00:45:02):
And it's like,

Jack Millikan (00:45:03):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:45:03):
we have an idea,

Jack Millikan (00:45:04):
you guys have an idea,

Jack Millikan (00:45:05):
I have an idea and we're figuring it out together over the course of an hour or whatever,

Jack Millikan (00:45:10):
however long it is.

Jack Millikan (00:45:11):
And then now the audience is figuring that out with us.

Jack Millikan (00:45:14):
It's a really beautiful experience.

Colin Casey (00:45:17):
I can totally agree.

Colin Casey (00:45:18):
And I think at bars too, my conversations were very,

Colin Casey (00:45:23):
non-fulfilling very short very generic like i feel like the ticket drop of generic

Colin Casey (00:45:30):
but um i've just even interning out the podcast even though it was sports like the

Colin Casey (00:45:37):
amount of people and love connection of just loving the podcast doing remotes

Colin Casey (00:45:43):
getting the reading the emails and my therapist is like go do your own about being

Colin Casey (00:45:48):
sober like you're really passionate about it and i was like

Colin Casey (00:45:51):
yeah but that's kind of like against the the rules of aa or the traditions you know

Colin Casey (00:45:56):
we're not supposed to like go on media platforms and uh oh really but i i i didn't

Colin Casey (00:46:02):
know well no it's there it's really it just says we don't represent aa is what we

Colin Casey (00:46:09):
have is what we are saying we aren't a the steps i saved my life like i don't know

Colin Casey (00:46:15):
that without walking into the room on that day how i would have gotten sober but it

Colin Casey (00:46:20):
was

Colin Casey (00:46:22):
It just took what it took.

Colin Casey (00:46:24):
And now I just feel like this is my way of carrying the message.

Colin Casey (00:46:28):
That's a little bit more.

Colin Casey (00:46:29):
I think podcasting is a little more practical now than people going to a meeting.

Colin Casey (00:46:35):
And I think we're fulfilling the conversation because life is busy.

Colin Casey (00:46:38):
People are on the go now.

Colin Casey (00:46:39):
People do have a shorter attention span.

Colin Casey (00:46:42):
And so if someone can't make a meeting,

Colin Casey (00:46:43):
but they can tune into a segment of a podcast,

Colin Casey (00:46:46):
like,

Colin Casey (00:46:46):
isn't that better than not saying anything at all?

Colin Casey (00:46:50):
like that's that was my feel i know i i was i just felt i had this calling like i

Colin Casey (00:46:55):
know how to podcast now i know how to run i know how to set up and i was left with

Colin Casey (00:47:00):
what do i do now and so i got suggested start your own and now i'm like again it's

Colin Casey (00:47:08):
my connection it's the feel good i'm having the horror of the last 24 hours though

Colin Casey (00:47:13):
that

Colin Casey (00:47:15):
my spotify and sub stack link got broken and it won't unsync so i'm having to

Colin Casey (00:47:23):
transfer everything um to a new i just had to restart because um the rss link broke

Colin Casey (00:47:30):
and no one can figure out how to fix it and so i'm going through a nightmare on it

Colin Casey (00:47:34):
right now but you know this is uh and colin doesn't do any of the podcasting back

Colin Casey (00:47:39):
stuff and but there's never been a time i wanted to drink over it and

Colin Casey (00:47:46):
I've learned a lot over the last 12 hours.

Colin Casey (00:47:47):
I'll tell you that.

Colin Casey (00:47:50):
But like, especially with keeping organized and it's just a different way of living life.

Colin Casey (00:47:56):
And even before we came on here,

Colin Casey (00:47:58):
I literally had to do like a quick prayer meditation of like,

Colin Casey (00:48:03):
just give me the words I need to say.

Colin Casey (00:48:05):
listen to the message I need to hear and like, you know, give my attention here.

Colin Casey (00:48:09):
Cause I think in the day and age we are in,

Colin Casey (00:48:11):
it's hard to like sit down and give attention sometimes.

Rachel Casey (00:48:14):
Well,

Rachel Casey (00:48:14):
I just made me think of a question for you,

Rachel Casey (00:48:16):
Jack,

Rachel Casey (00:48:17):
since you're,

Rachel Casey (00:48:18):
you know,

Rachel Casey (00:48:18):
kind of newly sober with this great new podcast and business,

Rachel Casey (00:48:22):
but Anne Young,

Rachel Casey (00:48:23):
what do you do as an outlet right now?

Rachel Casey (00:48:27):
And since you're in your mid twenties and sober from everything.

Colin Casey (00:48:31):
Deleted all dating apps.

Colin Casey (00:48:32):
So yeah, I mean you,

Rachel Casey (00:48:34):
yeah so what's your your outlet when you do have free time yeah believe me i do

Rachel Casey (00:48:38):
know watching my wife how time suck a podcast can be and helping people you know

Colin Casey (00:48:43):
start one the time goes somewhere yeah so wait are you living alone or roommates or

Colin Casey (00:48:49):
i've got a roommate right now yep yep okay so i was gonna say i feel like that so

Colin Casey (00:48:54):
that must make in the connection of having a roommate

Colin Casey (00:48:57):
I wish I would have been or tried having one sober,

Colin Casey (00:49:00):
you know,

Colin Casey (00:49:01):
like because I think drinking the only roommate I did have,

Colin Casey (00:49:04):
it really interfered with lots of drinking,

Colin Casey (00:49:08):
lots of smoking.

Colin Casey (00:49:09):
And I don't know that we were ever we had conversations, but it was usually drunk on the patio.

Colin Casey (00:49:15):
And I don't remember any of it.

Colin Casey (00:49:17):
They were not meaningful, you know, like.

Colin Casey (00:49:21):
I just, I think that that would be such a cool experience to have.

Colin Casey (00:49:25):
So I think that that's awesome.

Colin Casey (00:49:28):
So you,

Colin Casey (00:49:28):
cause I think if I were sober,

Colin Casey (00:49:30):
like I think roommates in my head used to be a nightmare,

Colin Casey (00:49:33):
but in sobriety,

Colin Casey (00:49:34):
I don't think it would be because like,

Colin Casey (00:49:35):
I know how to respect and communicate better now.

Colin Casey (00:49:40):
I didn't know how to do that back then.

Colin Casey (00:49:42):
I was very selfish.

Jack Millikan (00:49:44):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:49:44):
A hundred percent.

Jack Millikan (00:49:45):
That's, you know, I think that the danger of a roommate is like, uh,

Jack Millikan (00:49:49):
You know,

Jack Millikan (00:49:49):
at least when I found myself resenting people or getting mad at people,

Jack Millikan (00:49:52):
I had to do a lot of reflection on this and realize that,

Jack Millikan (00:49:55):
you know,

Jack Millikan (00:49:55):
I'm not getting mad at the little thing that they're doing or mad.

Jack Millikan (00:49:58):
I'm getting mad at myself for not articulating it to them, right?

Jack Millikan (00:50:02):
Or articulating it clearly.

Jack Millikan (00:50:04):
And that was being projected onto them in a very unfair way.

Colin Casey (00:50:08):
So that's our pillow talk.

Jack Millikan (00:50:10):
Yeah, that's right.

Colin Casey (00:50:12):
Yeah, seriously.

Colin Casey (00:50:13):
I'm like, yeah, it wasn't really you.

Colin Casey (00:50:15):
It was, you know, I was really struggling with.

Rachel Casey (00:50:18):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:50:18):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:50:18):
we don't really I don't know the last time we've gone to bed angry or anything like that.

Colin Casey (00:50:23):
And really,

Colin Casey (00:50:23):
even with friends,

Colin Casey (00:50:24):
not just outside my marriage,

Colin Casey (00:50:26):
it's again,

Colin Casey (00:50:26):
it comes rather quickly that I'm like,

Colin Casey (00:50:28):
this doesn't really feel right.

Colin Casey (00:50:30):
Like, I feel like I need to.

Colin Casey (00:50:31):
correct whatever this feeling or just,

Colin Casey (00:50:36):
I don't know,

Colin Casey (00:50:36):
as,

Colin Casey (00:50:37):
as agnostic that you said,

Colin Casey (00:50:39):
you kind of identify even though,

Colin Casey (00:50:41):
or,

Colin Casey (00:50:41):
but while being in a church type community,

Colin Casey (00:50:46):
I would agree with that.

Colin Casey (00:50:47):
Cause I find in also sobriety, I always look for the similarities.

Colin Casey (00:50:51):
I was raised Jewish.

Colin Casey (00:50:52):
I am Jewish.

Colin Casey (00:50:53):
I'm half Jewish at least.

Colin Casey (00:50:56):
But yeah,

Colin Casey (00:50:57):
i always like had a i don't know i just it was interesting like half of my life

Colin Casey (00:51:02):
being jewish and then as soon as parents divorced my mom's back to being christian

Colin Casey (00:51:06):
and i'm like okay so everything's cool um i just know there's something bigger than

Colin Casey (00:51:11):
me i just don't like label it i think that's pretty much what agnostic is um but

Colin Casey (00:51:17):
even when i do have to go to church because my family wants

Colin Casey (00:51:22):
us there or they want christmas easter yeah those which we split up between and um

Colin Casey (00:51:28):
i look for the similarities and not the differences and there are some things where

Colin Casey (00:51:31):
i'm like yeah maybe i don't agree with that but like it's much softer it doesn't

Colin Casey (00:51:36):
sound quite as loud as the similarities do yeah that's right is that kind of how

Colin Casey (00:51:40):
your youth group or how old are the people that you're like working with in your

Colin Casey (00:51:44):
group

Jack Millikan (00:51:45):
Um,

Jack Millikan (00:51:46):
and yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:51:47):
the,

Jack Millikan (00:51:47):
yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:51:48):
they're,

Jack Millikan (00:51:48):
they're,

Jack Millikan (00:51:49):
they range from,

Jack Millikan (00:51:50):
yeah,

Jack Millikan (00:51:50):
24 year olds,

Jack Millikan (00:51:51):
probably to 35 year olds.

Jack Millikan (00:51:52):
Like, uh, I would say in that range, generally speaking.

Jack Millikan (00:51:55):
Mm-hmm.

Colin Casey (00:51:56):
yeah okay so just kind of see i'm in the right you're out of the range but i'm

Jack Millikan (00:52:02):
within the range okay yeah and um yeah but like the christmas thing for instance um

Jack Millikan (00:52:10):
i guess like i'm just used to being the black sheep to some degree like or being

Jack Millikan (00:52:14):
the outlier and like i'll be the agnostic in the christian community and be open

Jack Millikan (00:52:18):
about it and you know people are

Jack Millikan (00:52:20):
gonna pressure me and do all these things not in a bad way obviously but i'm just

Jack Millikan (00:52:24):
used to it like i think and i think it's it would be useful for people that are

Jack Millikan (00:52:28):
trying to you know be sober and be in an environment where there is alcohol being

Jack Millikan (00:52:33):
able to like putting yourself in different situations outside of just the alcohol

Jack Millikan (00:52:36):
realm of where are you the the outlier where are you unique in your own beliefs um

Jack Millikan (00:52:42):
and have that correlate over to to being in a situation with alcohol

Colin Casey (00:52:47):
Yes,

Colin Casey (00:52:48):
that's like when I did Rotary Club in high school and did you go to give the

Colin Casey (00:52:54):
speeches and it's like a four way test of it.

Colin Casey (00:52:56):
Is it true?

Colin Casey (00:52:56):
Is it fair?

Colin Casey (00:52:58):
And I did my own religion because I'm just like,

Colin Casey (00:53:01):
I always saw people fighting over and I didn't understand.

Colin Casey (00:53:04):
And I use the comparison of comparing religion to ice cream.

Colin Casey (00:53:11):
and like do you i was like do you get offended when someone else says they like

Colin Casey (00:53:16):
vanilla and you like chocolate no because you're pretty confident that you like

Colin Casey (00:53:20):
chocolate and you liking chocolate has nothing to do with them liking vanilla but

Colin Casey (00:53:25):
if you're wondering like maybe i do like vanilla but now everyone else is telling

Colin Casey (00:53:30):
you you have to like chocolate

Colin Casey (00:53:33):
It gets, and then you have strawberry over here.

Colin Casey (00:53:35):
And I just,

Colin Casey (00:53:37):
I did,

Colin Casey (00:53:37):
I gave the comparison and I ended with try each of them and whichever one resonates

Colin Casey (00:53:43):
with you,

Colin Casey (00:53:44):
resonates with you.

Colin Casey (00:53:45):
And it doesn't matter whatever flavor anyone else is doing.

Colin Casey (00:53:48):
you know so i think when people start getting in tense situations about religion

Colin Casey (00:53:54):
it's really that they're not they're they're struggling with it internally and then

Colin Casey (00:53:58):
now i'm like saying the you know sick man's prayer i'm like i hope that you figure

Colin Casey (00:54:02):
it out because you're not going to get me off mine like it doesn't bother me saying

Colin Casey (00:54:08):
i

Colin Casey (00:54:10):
i'm jewish like that's how i was raised i agree with that i agree with a lot of

Colin Casey (00:54:13):
what they say there's things i don't agree with but i like it's not because of

Colin Casey (00:54:17):
anyone it's because what i feel aligned with um so i think your alignment's great

Colin Casey (00:54:23):
has nothing to do with mine i don't get upset about it i can open i can listen to

Colin Casey (00:54:27):
it without correcting it because it's not mine you know but uh people don't quite

Colin Casey (00:54:34):
understand that

Colin Casey (00:54:37):
in especially being raised in like a heavy heavy what are you supposed to do when

Colin Casey (00:54:41):
your parents tell you you can only have chocolate ice cream yeah seriously but like

Colin Casey (00:54:47):
that's like the catholic you know and you're looking at everyone else and you're

Colin Casey (00:54:51):
like but i kind of want to try the others and they're like no it's forbidden and

Colin Casey (00:54:56):
it's not there should be no problem if you're confident in your religion in your

Colin Casey (00:55:01):
beliefs testing something out won't bother you that's right yeah that's exactly it

Colin Casey (00:55:06):
won't

Colin Casey (00:55:08):
And, uh, I wish I could find that because I want, that was where I want my scholarships.

Colin Casey (00:55:13):
I gave that speech and I was at, I'm in Texas.

Colin Casey (00:55:17):
Okay.

Colin Casey (00:55:19):
I'm looking at the most church going rotary.

Colin Casey (00:55:24):
I'm at a country club looking at these people in the eye,

Colin Casey (00:55:27):
telling them we are in the Bible belt and say,

Colin Casey (00:55:31):
as an earlier question too,

Colin Casey (00:55:33):
that I've thought about,

Colin Casey (00:55:34):
I don't think I had a choice because I was pretty hard.

Colin Casey (00:55:36):
Like I wasn't going to grow up like my parents.

Colin Casey (00:55:38):
The minute I had a drink and

Colin Casey (00:55:42):
I didn't even make the connection.

Colin Casey (00:55:43):
It gave me just such an elusive feeling.

Colin Casey (00:55:46):
I wanted to do that again.

Colin Casey (00:55:48):
Like it really made things feel better.

Colin Casey (00:55:53):
Had I not taken a sip of alcohol ever?

Colin Casey (00:55:56):
I don't know.

Colin Casey (00:55:57):
But I know the minute I had my first drink, it was over.

Colin Casey (00:56:01):
There was no.

Colin Casey (00:56:02):
It was going to progress the way it was going to progress until I surrendered it.

Colin Casey (00:56:08):
That's my belief anyway.

Colin Casey (00:56:09):
I believe I have an allergy to it that after you gave me that first drink,

Colin Casey (00:56:15):
if the fire wasn't fed,

Colin Casey (00:56:16):
it was eventually going to come.

Rachel Casey (00:56:17):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:56:19):
So that's the allergy of the body in my belief.

Jack Millikan (00:56:24):
That's a great book title.

Jack Millikan (00:56:24):
Is that a book title?

Jack Millikan (00:56:26):
The Allergy of the Body?

Jack Millikan (00:56:27):
That would be a killer.

Colin Casey (00:56:28):
Well,

Colin Casey (00:56:28):
I mean,

Colin Casey (00:56:29):
that's in the big book is it's a mal or it's a malady of the body,

Colin Casey (00:56:34):
I think,

Colin Casey (00:56:34):
in the spirituality,

Colin Casey (00:56:36):
whatever.

Colin Casey (00:56:37):
I don't know.

Colin Casey (00:56:38):
Is there a way I'm going to put your,

Colin Casey (00:56:40):
I think you sent me your website link because if anyone wants to get ahold of you

Colin Casey (00:56:44):
and maybe,

Colin Casey (00:56:45):
are you local?

Colin Casey (00:56:46):
Do you, how do people get ahold of you if they're like, Hey, I have a podcast.

Colin Casey (00:56:49):
I kind of want some help.

Colin Casey (00:56:50):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:56:51):
Do you do virtual?

Colin Casey (00:56:52):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:56:52):
I do remote.

Jack Millikan (00:56:53):
I do.

Jack Millikan (00:56:53):
I've got people in Canada.

Jack Millikan (00:56:55):
I've got them all over.

Rachel Casey (00:56:55):
So I do local.

Rachel Casey (00:56:56):
Oh, that's awesome.

Rachel Casey (00:56:57):
So you've had people reach out.

Colin Casey (00:57:00):
Okay, no, I know you have the like the and you have your sign on and you have a LinkedIn.

Colin Casey (00:57:04):
Is that like your best place to get in contact?

Jack Millikan (00:57:07):
Instagram is your website.

Jack Millikan (00:57:08):
Instagram or LinkedIn are the two best places.

Jack Millikan (00:57:10):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:57:10):
So websites under construction.

Jack Millikan (00:57:12):
That's a fun puzzle that I'm working on myself.

Jack Millikan (00:57:17):
So I'm getting that fixed up.

Jack Millikan (00:57:18):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:57:19):
LinkedIn or Instagram is definitely a good place to hit.

Rachel Casey (00:57:22):
On your podcast.

Rachel Casey (00:57:23):
So what's the, cause you talk about long form conversation.

Rachel Casey (00:57:26):
So what is like a quick preview of your podcast or what you like to talk about

Rachel Casey (00:57:32):
either out loud or to your guests or listeners?

Rachel Casey (00:57:35):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:57:36):
Yeah, that's kind of my main three pillars.

Jack Millikan (00:57:39):
You guys kind of inspired me to get into the sobriety realm,

Jack Millikan (00:57:41):
too,

Jack Millikan (00:57:42):
or living sober-minded,

Jack Millikan (00:57:44):
maybe not just with alcohol,

Jack Millikan (00:57:45):
but just a sober purview on the world.

Jack Millikan (00:57:49):
But sobriety, philosophy, religion, and there's one more thing in there that I'm blanking on.

Jack Millikan (00:57:56):
But yeah, those are in general.

Colin Casey (00:57:59):
Well, I think you also, connection with other people and building conversation.

Rachel Casey (00:58:04):
Communication is a big one for me too, yeah.

Rachel Casey (00:58:06):
Because you tapped on it earlier,

Rachel Casey (00:58:08):
just our mindset has just gotten so quick that we've lost the ability to stretch

Rachel Casey (00:58:14):
out a conversation and get to the meat of it because we need everything.

Rachel Casey (00:58:19):
10 second, 30 second doses.

Colin Casey (00:58:22):
Yeah.

Colin Casey (00:58:23):
And they're kind of saying,

Colin Casey (00:58:24):
so I went to Adobe Max this year,

Colin Casey (00:58:26):
which I learned quite a bit on the media side.

Colin Casey (00:58:31):
Actually, it's now switching.

Colin Casey (00:58:34):
It's going to three minutes, which is why YouTube went to three minute stories.

Rachel Casey (00:58:38):
Okay.

Colin Casey (00:58:40):
But then it's also going shorter because I guess the next generation,

Colin Casey (00:58:43):
like people who are in high school right now,

Colin Casey (00:58:44):
I don't know what the label is.

Colin Casey (00:58:47):
They use the notes on Instagram.

Colin Casey (00:58:49):
That's apparently like the most popular way to communicate is to read that little bubble note.

Jack Millikan (00:58:56):
Interesting.

Colin Casey (00:58:58):
Well, is there anything else you'd like to, I think, wrap up?

Colin Casey (00:59:01):
And I apologize.

Colin Casey (00:59:01):
We started a little bit late.

Colin Casey (00:59:02):
So you're taking a little more of your time.

Colin Casey (00:59:04):
So anything you'd like to promote about yourself or to follow you along?

Jack Millikan (00:59:11):
Yeah.

Jack Millikan (00:59:11):
I mean, my Instagram is Jack Milliken.

Jack Millikan (00:59:14):
Jack, period, M-I-L-L-I-K-A-N.

Jack Millikan (00:59:17):
And then that's just where I- I'll have it on the show.

Jack Millikan (00:59:19):
That's great.

Jack Millikan (00:59:19):
But yeah, this is awesome.

Colin Casey (00:59:20):
Look down there.

Jack Millikan (00:59:21):
Take a peek.

Jack Millikan (00:59:21):
Take a peek down there.

Jack Millikan (00:59:22):
But this has been awesome.

Jack Millikan (00:59:23):
I'm really glad to have met you guys.

Jack Millikan (00:59:25):
And I love what you're doing.

Jack Millikan (00:59:26):
So just glad to be a part of it.

Colin Casey (00:59:29):
come back if you uh after your next check-in and you're up to two thousand dollars

Colin Casey (00:59:33):
come back on and let us know how it's going and you know uh yeah give us an update

Rachel Casey (00:59:37):
don't be a stranger the next time you do your check-in for your next go-around let

Rachel Casey (00:59:42):
us know how it's going good deal yeah yeah sounds awesome well thank you thank you

Colin Casey (00:59:48):
for coming on sober banter thank you for anyone listening thank you mom for

Colin Casey (00:59:52):
listening

Rachel Casey (00:59:54):
All the moms out there.

Colin Casey (00:59:55):
All the moms.

Rachel Casey (00:59:55):
I'm sure my mom will listen to this one, too.

Colin Casey (00:59:57):
Yeah, there you go.

Colin Casey (00:59:59):
Jack's mom, you're the best.

Colin Casey (01:00:01):
Everyone is awesome.

Colin Casey (01:00:03):
Well, I'm going to go ahead and sign off.

Colin Casey (01:00:06):
And...