WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:26.190 --> 00:00:28.020 Anke: Hello and welcome, Grisha. 00:00:28.020 --> 00:00:32.830 I always love, starting on a bit of a giggle so it has 00:00:32.830 --> 00:00:34.120 everybody a little bit relaxed. 00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:36.430 So I'm really excited to have you here today. 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.760 So the good old questions. 00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:43.690 Where in this lovely world are you and what's your business with dogs? 00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:48.940 Grisha: Well, I am in the west coast of the United States in 00:00:48.940 --> 00:00:50.800 a place that we call Oregon. 00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:53.470 Um, it's the land of the Saslaw people. 00:00:53.470 --> 00:00:57.250 So I live on a river, um, and yeah, it's beautiful. 00:00:57.250 --> 00:00:57.940 Sunny day. 00:00:58.180 --> 00:01:00.190 And what was your question besides for that? 00:01:00.190 --> 00:01:00.670 Where am I? 00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:01.060 Anke: What? 00:01:01.180 --> 00:01:01.330 Grisha: Your 00:01:01.330 --> 00:01:02.410 Anke: business with dogs. 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:06.550 Oh, right on the dog shows, or let's just touch on dogs. 00:01:08.170 --> 00:01:09.520 Grisha: I'm like, I'm like a dog. 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:11.500 Um, so yes. 00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:14.190 So behavior is my specialty. 00:01:14.190 --> 00:01:18.180 I developed bat behavior adjustment training, which is a technique 00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:22.410 for socializing dogs for either, um, socializing dogs who have 00:01:22.410 --> 00:01:26.700 already developed reactivity or, you know, trauma or some sort of 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:29.280 bad experience or, um, puppies. 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:32.970 So it's basically like how to teach social skills to dogs through this 00:01:32.970 --> 00:01:39.000 really, um, slow, steady, careful dance where dogs have a lot of power, a lot of 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.250 agency of choosing where they get to go. 00:01:42.955 --> 00:01:43.645 Anke: So I have an online 00:01:43.645 --> 00:01:46.105 Grisha: school and uh, books and that sort of thing. 00:01:46.405 --> 00:01:46.615 Anke: Yeah. 00:01:46.615 --> 00:01:47.005 Awesome. 00:01:47.005 --> 00:01:47.275 Awesome. 00:01:47.575 --> 00:01:48.175 Now. 00:01:49.105 --> 00:01:53.515 I'm obviously curious what, what that stands for and also like how it's, 00:01:53.515 --> 00:01:57.565 how the approach is different from, you know, what people might know from 00:01:57.565 --> 00:02:01.795 puppy classes and you know, and other training methods they've come across. 00:02:01.795 --> 00:02:03.625 So like, what sparked you to create it? 00:02:03.625 --> 00:02:05.815 Because obviously you weren't happy with what was there? 00:02:06.630 --> 00:02:07.980 Grisha: Right, exactly. 00:02:08.010 --> 00:02:10.830 So that stands for Behavior Adjustment training. 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.990 And the idea is that we adjust the, the behavior, but we don't, 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:18.930 like, we change the behavior, but we don't change the reason. 00:02:19.260 --> 00:02:21.210 So the behavior exists for a reason. 00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:23.910 Like dogs are barking because they need distance or they 00:02:23.910 --> 00:02:25.290 need something to move closer. 00:02:25.350 --> 00:02:28.140 Like it's usually they're trying to change their environment somehow. 00:02:28.530 --> 00:02:32.550 And so rather than saying, we're just gonna give you a treat, or we're gonna 00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:34.830 punish you, which punishment isn't my jam. 00:02:35.295 --> 00:02:39.435 But rather than those two schools, if not, it's really about how can we 00:02:39.435 --> 00:02:44.535 help the dog know how to, in like to interact with their environment in ways 00:02:44.535 --> 00:02:47.385 that are also like work for us humans. 00:02:48.015 --> 00:02:51.465 So, um, so that's one way it's majorly different is that it's not 00:02:51.465 --> 00:02:54.645 treat heavy, although we certainly use treats in certain parts of it. 00:02:55.125 --> 00:02:57.765 Um, and punishment definitely has no place at that. 00:02:58.395 --> 00:03:01.995 And, um, yeah, so it's, I developed it because of. 00:03:02.515 --> 00:03:06.925 I had, let's see, I was teaching, this was in, I had a dog school in 00:03:06.925 --> 00:03:10.135 Seattle before I started traveling the world and then doing online work. 00:03:10.675 --> 00:03:15.925 And it was, I had probably four aggressive dog classes a week. 00:03:16.045 --> 00:03:18.595 Um, so classes, four dogs with aggression problems. 00:03:19.165 --> 00:03:25.555 And um, I had my own dog, peanut, my soulmate dog, and he was still 00:03:25.555 --> 00:03:28.975 reactive, so he was barking at people, barking at other dogs. 00:03:29.135 --> 00:03:31.775 And it's one of the most embarrassing things, right? 00:03:31.775 --> 00:03:35.480 To have a dog and be like, I'm the on, if you don't train, don't talk to me. 00:03:35.480 --> 00:03:39.065 Because I'm like too busy shoving treats in my dog's face right now to talk to you. 00:03:39.995 --> 00:03:43.325 And um, and so, you know, I had worked through his reactivity quite 00:03:43.325 --> 00:03:47.585 a bit and in terms of like, if he was in working mode, so like if he was. 00:03:48.050 --> 00:03:51.470 Actively engaged with me, like sitting or laying down or whatever. 00:03:51.470 --> 00:03:55.790 Like he could look trained, uh, but he was not happy like he was. 00:03:56.090 --> 00:03:59.660 It's kinda like if you go to work and you hate your job and you're like, I am here 00:04:00.020 --> 00:04:03.080 and I'm gonna have that smile on my face, but like, I really don't wanna be here. 00:04:03.530 --> 00:04:06.710 And that's how he was with other dogs and people and. 00:04:07.255 --> 00:04:10.315 That's a really, like, no, that's a icky place. 00:04:10.315 --> 00:04:12.655 Like I don't want that for him and I didn't want it for me. 00:04:12.715 --> 00:04:16.405 And so, you know, I kept going to workshops and conferences and that 00:04:16.405 --> 00:04:22.495 kind of thing and, and cobbled together this, this way of being that. 00:04:22.555 --> 00:04:26.605 And then sort of took a, a quantum leap of agency, of giving a dog more 00:04:26.665 --> 00:04:31.465 control where I'm like, you know what, if we just give a chance to figure 00:04:31.465 --> 00:04:34.075 this out from a really safe distance. 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:37.840 Because in the, like, socialization, the way it works in the first place 00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:41.620 is like, you know, they're assessing, um, you know, am I safe here? 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:42.490 What do I do here? 00:04:42.940 --> 00:04:47.290 And if you're, if you're too close, they go to their knee jerk reaction of like, 00:04:47.350 --> 00:04:51.550 I don't feel safe here, and then I'm gonna bark or flee or freeze or whatever. 00:04:52.090 --> 00:04:56.650 And, but if you're at the right distance, then they're like, oh. 00:04:57.550 --> 00:04:58.630 Well, let me think about this. 00:04:58.630 --> 00:04:59.140 Actually. 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:00.190 I have these other tools. 00:05:00.190 --> 00:05:04.210 I can sniff the ground, I can look away, I can be curious. 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:08.980 Uh, and so what happens over time is like if you as a human are sort of 00:05:08.980 --> 00:05:14.260 like managing the distance and all, I can explain that, uh, how, but if we 00:05:14.260 --> 00:05:16.930 manage the distance so that they're kind of always surfing at the edge of 00:05:16.930 --> 00:05:21.400 like curiosity and they're never, or ideally not over the line of like, oh 00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:23.050 my God, what am, you know, panic attack. 00:05:23.050 --> 00:05:23.860 What am I doing here? 00:05:24.775 --> 00:05:28.525 Then they start to, to, you know, come up with a whole new set of 00:05:28.525 --> 00:05:31.105 behaviors that, that, you know, works. 00:05:31.105 --> 00:05:33.685 So we, you know, they look like the dog that we want them to look 00:05:33.685 --> 00:05:35.935 like, where they're like, oh, hi, there's another dog, and let's go 00:05:35.935 --> 00:05:37.945 sniff and, you know, do the things. 00:05:38.515 --> 00:05:38.725 Hmm. 00:05:38.785 --> 00:05:43.285 So, and he ended up being, so my dog peanut ended up being, um, a therapy 00:05:43.285 --> 00:05:46.435 dog to go to assisted living facilities. 00:05:46.435 --> 00:05:47.725 And like, he enjoyed that. 00:05:47.725 --> 00:05:51.475 And we had, you know, a new dog in our home and he was like, you know, good. 00:05:51.580 --> 00:05:54.460 Good friends and, and could, you know, just be in the world. 00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:58.870 Um, and it was, yeah, it was, it was like one of the most satisfying 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:03.010 experiences of my life to have him be able to go to these other places and, 00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:05.260 and not have to micromanage him anymore. 00:06:05.440 --> 00:06:06.310 And it does take time. 00:06:06.790 --> 00:06:07.150 Anke: Yeah. 00:06:07.210 --> 00:06:08.080 So, oh, I love that. 00:06:08.080 --> 00:06:11.530 I love that because it is, it is heartbreaking to see, you know, when you 00:06:11.530 --> 00:06:16.060 think they kind of, it's overwhelming and there's sort of, you know, we don't 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:18.280 know how, how to help 'em, you know? 00:06:18.370 --> 00:06:18.910 It is. 00:06:18.910 --> 00:06:19.150 Mm-hmm. 00:06:19.565 --> 00:06:20.945 And this, I mean, I guess that's the thing. 00:06:21.095 --> 00:06:24.875 Like if you're a trainer, the pressures on, you know, the judgment and people 00:06:24.875 --> 00:06:28.715 would be quite like, I don't know whether it's true, but you definitely feel it. 00:06:29.825 --> 00:06:30.545 Grisha: Right, exactly. 00:06:30.545 --> 00:06:31.745 I might be projecting, right? 00:06:31.745 --> 00:06:34.685 It's probably more in my head than theirs, but you never know, right? 00:06:34.745 --> 00:06:35.165 Yeah. 00:06:35.705 --> 00:06:36.245 Yeah. 00:06:36.305 --> 00:06:38.105 Anke: I mean, it is true though. 00:06:38.135 --> 00:06:41.345 You know, if I'm like, oh, you're a dog trainer, I, I kind of think, 00:06:41.345 --> 00:06:43.895 well, I kind of would expect your dog. 00:06:45.655 --> 00:06:46.045 Grisha: Right. 00:06:46.045 --> 00:06:46.435 Yeah, it is, it is funny. 00:06:46.435 --> 00:06:48.355 It's like that, I dunno if you have that phrase, the 00:06:48.355 --> 00:06:49.765 cobbler's children have no shoes. 00:06:49.765 --> 00:06:50.005 Yes. 00:06:50.485 --> 00:06:50.845 Yeah. 00:06:51.175 --> 00:06:51.985 So yeah. 00:06:52.135 --> 00:06:57.175 I mean, my, I, my husband is a woodworker and our cabinets are not perfect, 00:06:57.175 --> 00:06:59.755 and our dogs are also not perfect. 00:06:59.755 --> 00:07:00.410 And that's okay. 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.395 Like they're the amount of perfect, they're not, yeah. 00:07:02.395 --> 00:07:02.935 Anke: Whatever. 00:07:02.935 --> 00:07:03.355 Yeah. 00:07:03.415 --> 00:07:05.335 I mean, it's not about, I don't know. 00:07:05.335 --> 00:07:07.225 I never think, like, I've never like. 00:07:07.570 --> 00:07:11.830 The idea of obedience, I always thought like, I want you to listen to me 00:07:11.830 --> 00:07:14.170 enough to be safe so I can call you. 00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:15.820 You don't get run over by a car. 00:07:15.820 --> 00:07:18.550 Like it's about, it's about, it's about that. 00:07:18.640 --> 00:07:22.060 So how did you even get started to get into that profession? 00:07:22.060 --> 00:07:22.090 I. 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:26.440 Grisha: Well, before I was a dog trainer, I was a mathematician. 00:07:26.590 --> 00:07:32.800 And, uh, yeah, and then I got a, I was teaching at a college 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:35.020 or university and I got a dog. 00:07:35.110 --> 00:07:40.270 And, um, before I could get that dog, my partner at the time, he said, well, 00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:42.250 we need to read some books about dogs. 00:07:42.250 --> 00:07:44.920 And so I read like 50 books in one summer and wrote little 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:46.060 reports about each one 'cause. 00:07:46.795 --> 00:07:49.195 At the time I was a graduate student as well. 00:07:49.195 --> 00:07:58.465 And so, um, uh, yeah, so we got a dog and, uh, I, I just loved the, just the 00:07:58.525 --> 00:08:04.255 complexity of behavior and also just the, the capacity to understand like I. 00:08:04.945 --> 00:08:08.995 If I do this, they will understand this and so like it, yeah, it was 00:08:08.995 --> 00:08:10.285 just a really good fit for me. 00:08:10.795 --> 00:08:15.535 And then, so I volunteered at the shelter and did that for a while in the classes. 00:08:15.565 --> 00:08:20.305 Well, first in the, in the shelter, like just training the dogs one-on-one and then 00:08:20.305 --> 00:08:24.145 started volunteering in the classes and then eventually started my own business. 00:08:24.625 --> 00:08:29.335 And then kind of like siphoned my, my time away. 00:08:29.335 --> 00:08:32.575 So I was like gradually teaching less math and more dogs and 00:08:32.575 --> 00:08:33.715 then eventually took the plunge. 00:08:34.315 --> 00:08:34.675 Anke: Wow. 00:08:35.005 --> 00:08:36.445 So what was the experience like? 00:08:36.445 --> 00:08:37.795 Was it what you thought it would be? 00:08:37.795 --> 00:08:40.555 Because know, most of the time when people feel to sort of start 00:08:40.555 --> 00:08:41.875 their first business, you're like. 00:08:42.505 --> 00:08:45.745 It's all exciting and then it kind of hits you, right? 00:08:45.895 --> 00:08:46.255 So, yeah, 00:08:47.380 --> 00:08:50.185 Grisha: so I mean, there's definitely parts of it that were 00:08:50.185 --> 00:08:52.165 like, this is exactly what I wanted. 00:08:52.165 --> 00:08:55.280 And I mean, I've been doing it for 20 years, so it's obviously, I. 00:08:55.345 --> 00:08:56.935 Plenty of what I, I wanted. 00:08:57.025 --> 00:09:00.625 Um, and there was definitely a surprise in terms of timing. 00:09:00.685 --> 00:09:05.275 Like I thought I was doing dog training nights and weekends because that's 00:09:05.275 --> 00:09:07.555 when I had time to do dog training. 00:09:07.795 --> 00:09:10.315 And then it turned out like that's when everybody else also 00:09:10.315 --> 00:09:11.665 has time to do dog training. 00:09:11.695 --> 00:09:14.965 And so for many years it was like only nights and weekends, right? 00:09:14.965 --> 00:09:17.125 Like classes and private lessons and things. 00:09:17.635 --> 00:09:20.395 And then I got enough experience that, that I could sort of like 00:09:20.425 --> 00:09:22.405 carve a niche as like, you know. 00:09:23.065 --> 00:09:27.025 I, I only work in the day and people would then have to hire me in the daytime. 00:09:27.625 --> 00:09:29.905 Um, but yeah, there was definitely lots of nights and 00:09:29.905 --> 00:09:31.675 weekends, so that was a surprise. 00:09:31.735 --> 00:09:37.255 Um, also like the, this kind of vision of like, you get to take your dog with 00:09:37.255 --> 00:09:39.955 you all the time, like that's not true. 00:09:40.165 --> 00:09:44.215 Um, I mean, you can, like if your dog is like the helper dog for ag, 00:09:44.335 --> 00:09:48.745 aggression, aggression, but um, it's not really great for them, honestly. 00:09:48.745 --> 00:09:50.815 And so like, there's less of that too. 00:09:51.025 --> 00:09:51.985 So at least for me, 00:09:51.985 --> 00:09:52.345 Anke: oh. 00:09:52.630 --> 00:09:54.880 Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.520 So do you still work in person or is it all online now? 00:09:59.395 --> 00:10:00.865 Grisha: It's, it's all online now. 00:10:00.925 --> 00:10:05.245 Um, every so often I'll do, like, I'll work with a local person, just, you 00:10:05.245 --> 00:10:06.580 know, because I can, because you can. 00:10:06.715 --> 00:10:09.295 And just to keep my chops up a little bit. 00:10:09.295 --> 00:10:09.535 Yeah. 00:10:09.715 --> 00:10:13.465 And, and I usually tell them though that like, I don't do it for money locally 00:10:13.795 --> 00:10:18.565 because, um, I have to say, because I don't like the responsibility of it. 00:10:18.565 --> 00:10:22.945 So I'm fine like meeting with them for several sessions, but I'm just like. 00:10:23.255 --> 00:10:23.825 You know what? 00:10:23.825 --> 00:10:27.005 I don't wanna have to be somewhere at a specific time anymore. 00:10:27.095 --> 00:10:28.805 It's just how my brain works. 00:10:28.805 --> 00:10:34.325 And so I love the freedom of working through the computer now and, and 00:10:34.325 --> 00:10:39.095 also, um, the way a lot of what we do is train other dog trainers. 00:10:39.095 --> 00:10:39.125 I. 00:10:39.325 --> 00:10:44.905 And, um, and so we, you know, we have like lots of different classes with, um, 00:10:45.025 --> 00:10:46.915 different experts from around the world. 00:10:46.945 --> 00:10:51.265 I have lots of classes in there as well, and then we do certification and things. 00:10:51.265 --> 00:10:53.965 And so I'm really passionate about that area of it. 00:10:54.415 --> 00:10:56.905 And, um, yeah, so I don't work locally as much anymore. 00:10:57.785 --> 00:11:01.925 Anke: No, I can, I can totally understand because it's like the, the convenience 00:11:01.925 --> 00:11:06.515 of working online and, and it's also, I mean, training dog trainers has this 00:11:06.515 --> 00:11:10.715 leveraged way, so you're not just helping one dog, you know, you're helping the 00:11:10.715 --> 00:11:12.545 person who can help hundreds of dogs. 00:11:12.755 --> 00:11:12.875 Right. 00:11:12.875 --> 00:11:13.775 So it's almost that. 00:11:14.135 --> 00:11:14.465 Yeah. 00:11:14.465 --> 00:11:14.945 Right. 00:11:15.755 --> 00:11:16.295 Grisha: Yeah. 00:11:16.475 --> 00:11:18.005 It's like that super benefit effect. 00:11:18.005 --> 00:11:19.355 Like, if I help somebody Yeah. 00:11:19.355 --> 00:11:22.325 Then they're, I know the ripple effect of their career is 00:11:22.325 --> 00:11:23.885 like, I've helped tons of dogs. 00:11:23.885 --> 00:11:23.945 Yeah. 00:11:24.455 --> 00:11:25.745 And that does feel really good. 00:11:26.695 --> 00:11:30.685 And I also, um, when I started this, I lived in Seattle and then 00:11:30.685 --> 00:11:32.515 I moved to Alaska for five years. 00:11:32.515 --> 00:11:36.115 And now I live in coastal Oregon in the middle of nowhere. 00:11:36.145 --> 00:11:39.295 And so that is great for my dogs, which is nice. 00:11:39.325 --> 00:11:43.315 And me, and there's like basically no customers here. 00:11:43.375 --> 00:11:47.755 So if I had to do it locally, I would be a very, very, um, yeah. 00:11:47.755 --> 00:11:49.780 Poor dog, dog. 00:11:51.710 --> 00:11:52.100 Yeah, 00:11:55.265 --> 00:11:55.555 Anke: yeah. 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:56.990 Grisha: Some places do 00:11:57.395 --> 00:11:57.475 Anke: that. 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:01.100 Well, that makes, that makes, that makes perfect sense. 00:12:01.910 --> 00:12:06.650 So, so the, the training courses you offer, are they mostly around, 00:12:07.010 --> 00:12:12.260 uh, the bat, or, or is it, is it like a, um, a broader catalog or? 00:12:14.605 --> 00:12:16.285 Grisha: It is a, yeah, the good, good question. 00:12:16.285 --> 00:12:17.335 It's a broad catalog. 00:12:17.335 --> 00:12:20.965 There's probably, I think about 50 of the classes I have taught. 00:12:21.145 --> 00:12:27.685 Um, it's got 150, 160 classes I think about now, and so a good chunk of 00:12:27.685 --> 00:12:29.875 them are either bat or bat philosophy. 00:12:30.580 --> 00:12:33.370 I would say probably maybe like 30 of the classes are about that. 00:12:33.760 --> 00:12:38.590 And, um, and then the rest are all the general things that we run into with dogs. 00:12:38.590 --> 00:12:43.870 And it's similar to what you said in terms of we're not about obedience, 00:12:43.900 --> 00:12:48.070 we are about helping dogs and people live together in community. 00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:53.200 And so that means like how to, like I have a class that I, that I taught at a. 00:12:53.605 --> 00:12:57.595 I was like a keynote speaker at a conference in the uk and we recorded 00:12:57.595 --> 00:12:59.065 that, and that's on the website too. 00:12:59.455 --> 00:13:01.735 And it's a class about how to track your dog, like how to pay 00:13:01.735 --> 00:13:03.625 attention to their emotional state. 00:13:04.225 --> 00:13:06.205 Um, and so that's a lot of what we do. 00:13:06.805 --> 00:13:07.135 Anke: Yeah. 00:13:07.375 --> 00:13:10.615 So what is the most common thing people come to you for? 00:13:13.075 --> 00:13:15.955 Like if they would say, I would aggression, you know, like, yeah. 00:13:17.815 --> 00:13:22.675 Yeah, I mean personally I'm thinking like to, to seek your help for, yeah. 00:13:24.610 --> 00:13:25.300 Grisha: Yeah. 00:13:25.330 --> 00:13:25.720 Yeah. 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:27.880 Um, I mean I think it's there. 00:13:27.910 --> 00:13:29.890 There's lots of different way, different reasons. 00:13:29.890 --> 00:13:32.350 I mean, I think a lot of the people come for community. 00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:33.340 They really are. 00:13:33.430 --> 00:13:37.240 A lot of the dog trainers, it's a very lonely field because a lot of times 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:40.900 you're like the only dog trainer in your town, or the only positive dog 00:13:40.900 --> 00:13:43.030 trainer, at least in like a certain area. 00:13:43.545 --> 00:13:44.025 Right. 00:13:44.085 --> 00:13:47.955 And then like sometimes if people, even if there are more, then sometimes there's 00:13:47.955 --> 00:13:49.965 a weird, you know, competition thing. 00:13:50.385 --> 00:13:51.975 Um, not always, which is good. 00:13:51.975 --> 00:13:56.535 But um, so yeah, we just have this really lovely community and it's 00:13:56.535 --> 00:13:59.865 like one of the safest places on the internet where people are just like, 00:13:59.865 --> 00:14:01.215 we're here to lift each other up. 00:14:01.275 --> 00:14:02.475 We're always kind. 00:14:02.805 --> 00:14:04.125 It's a diverse space. 00:14:04.155 --> 00:14:04.935 So it's like. 00:14:05.455 --> 00:14:09.775 Um, so that's, I would say one of probably the main reason now that like, beyond the 00:14:09.775 --> 00:14:13.555 curiosity of how do I learn all about all these different dog training things is 00:14:13.555 --> 00:14:18.775 like, how can I get support as a, as a, um, as an individual and as a dog trainer? 00:14:18.865 --> 00:14:21.445 'cause we also have classes like How to Human is one of 00:14:21.445 --> 00:14:22.345 the classes that's in there. 00:14:22.915 --> 00:14:23.365 Anke: Yeah. 00:14:23.515 --> 00:14:27.325 Which is, so would, if I'm coming and I'm not a doc professional, could I 00:14:27.325 --> 00:14:31.435 take your programs or would you say like they're specifically geared to towards 00:14:31.435 --> 00:14:33.445 people who wanna do this professionally? 00:14:35.740 --> 00:14:36.670 Grisha: So both. 00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:39.640 Um, so yes, you could totally do it if you're not a professional 00:14:39.640 --> 00:14:44.050 dog trainer and certification piece that you would just ignore, um, of 00:14:44.110 --> 00:14:47.500 certain, like, you know, filling out forms and taking tests and things. 00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:52.540 Um, but all of the classes, I, I, I appreciate being able to 00:14:52.540 --> 00:14:54.880 speak to whoever is in the room. 00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:58.120 And so the people we bring in do the same thing where it's like. 00:14:58.530 --> 00:15:01.710 If we use a fancy word, there's usually some like regular 00:15:01.710 --> 00:15:03.000 definition that goes with it. 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.350 And, and you know, there's a couple of business classes, so there's some classes 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:12.030 that are really more specific for dog trainers, but we have some, a set also 00:15:12.030 --> 00:15:13.950 that's very specifically for the public. 00:15:14.430 --> 00:15:16.350 Um, so it's super basic like. 00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:17.540 I just got a puppy. 00:15:17.540 --> 00:15:19.160 What do I do kind of class. 00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:22.280 Um, so we have one called Empowered Puppy raising, for example. 00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:24.020 Uh, that's really great. 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:25.700 Um, sort of step by step. 00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:28.820 And it, and it goes along with a puppy class, like if you're taking a puppy 00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:33.620 class in person for that social aspect, it's nice to still have some structure 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:38.840 in theory that like might be different from the local trainer to sort of add in. 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:42.860 Anke: So from, from anybody who, who seeks. 00:15:43.705 --> 00:15:47.965 Oh no, I was, I was just kinda wondering like for anybody who seeks help from 00:15:47.965 --> 00:15:53.095 a dog behaviorist or dog trainer, like, so would you say reactivity 00:15:53.095 --> 00:15:55.105 aggression is the biggest kind of issue? 00:15:55.105 --> 00:15:59.155 Or what, what are, what's sort of the most typical thing that people seek out? 00:15:59.695 --> 00:16:00.415 Helpful for? 00:16:01.150 --> 00:16:05.950 Grisha: Yeah, I, I mean it's, I, my, I'm a little skewed because 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:07.870 my aggression is my focus, right? 00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:10.720 And so that's definitely the bread and butter of what comes to me. 00:16:11.260 --> 00:16:14.980 And I would say like, probably for most trainers, it's either that 00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:17.200 or sort of like a impulse control. 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:21.310 Like the dog is just like, I don't know what the rules are here. 00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:24.740 You know, like, help me understand like what we're doing. 00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:28.460 Um, so yeah, that's, those are the kind of the two things is either 00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:31.700 dogs who are just like, it's a more of a translation problem. 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:34.640 'cause they know how to sit, they know how to lay down, they just don't know 00:16:34.640 --> 00:16:36.380 when we want it and why they should. 00:16:36.655 --> 00:16:38.545 Want to do it in that moment. 00:16:38.605 --> 00:16:43.285 Um, and that the, the more of a, almost like a therapy, right? 00:16:43.285 --> 00:16:48.235 Trauma informed, attachment informed, like how do we help the dog be in 00:16:48.235 --> 00:16:51.655 their body in this space without feeling like they have to go bark at 00:16:51.655 --> 00:16:53.695 everything or, you know, run away. 00:16:54.295 --> 00:16:57.355 Anke: Yeah, I, I mean, I guess that, that makes a lot of sense 00:16:57.355 --> 00:17:00.775 to me because if you, it's just like people, you know, if you are. 00:17:02.515 --> 00:17:07.165 Freaked out, you know, yes, I know how to sit, but I might not be able to do 00:17:07.165 --> 00:17:10.615 it when I'm like, you know, so, yeah. 00:17:11.905 --> 00:17:14.515 I mean, so would you, yeah, it's, would you also look at the other 00:17:14.515 --> 00:17:16.735 end of the lesion, I respect? 00:17:19.075 --> 00:17:20.005 Grisha: Absolutely. 00:17:20.035 --> 00:17:20.305 Yeah. 00:17:20.335 --> 00:17:24.055 So in fact, we have, um, specifically with the leash, ironically, we have a 00:17:24.055 --> 00:17:27.925 class called Stop Pulling, and most of my classes are about like what to do. 00:17:27.925 --> 00:17:28.375 I just. 00:17:28.825 --> 00:17:31.165 Decided to call that stopping pulling because that's what 00:17:31.165 --> 00:17:32.155 most people search for. 00:17:32.695 --> 00:17:37.255 Um, but the, in the stop pulling class, we actually have a whole section about 00:17:37.255 --> 00:17:43.765 glimmers, about how to teach people to, um, have a cue, a specific way to 00:17:43.765 --> 00:17:47.545 tell their nervous system that they're safe and that they can settle down. 00:17:48.025 --> 00:17:50.800 Because dogs are co-regulating with us, right? 00:17:50.875 --> 00:17:52.585 They're, we, when we're. 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:57.130 In a family, or even when we're just sort of next to each other, 00:17:57.130 --> 00:18:00.610 our nervous systems are regulating together just like a flock of birds. 00:18:00.610 --> 00:18:02.530 Like you scare one and then all of a sudden everybody's 00:18:02.530 --> 00:18:03.520 like, bah, and they leave. 00:18:04.270 --> 00:18:07.960 And same thing with dogs is that they're like. 00:18:08.745 --> 00:18:10.155 Ah, okay. 00:18:10.155 --> 00:18:14.325 That person is calm, so the chances of it being dangerous have just 00:18:14.325 --> 00:18:15.765 gone down a little bit, right? 00:18:15.765 --> 00:18:17.925 Because they're looking at us for information. 00:18:18.255 --> 00:18:20.925 And so if we're on edge all the time, that's hard. 00:18:21.495 --> 00:18:24.765 So a glimmer is the opposite of what's called a trigger. 00:18:24.765 --> 00:18:27.765 So a trigger is like the thing that that reminds them that 00:18:27.765 --> 00:18:29.295 they're in danger or whatever. 00:18:29.295 --> 00:18:30.255 So they start barking. 00:18:30.615 --> 00:18:35.025 And a glimmer is, is a sign of safety or belonging or whatever 00:18:35.025 --> 00:18:36.165 else that we might need as. 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:37.260 As humans as well. 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:43.650 And so I teach people to, to do a practice in different places to generalize it 00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:49.230 just like we do with dog training, of, of telling themselves that they are safe 00:18:49.320 --> 00:18:51.090 and then doing a breathing exercise. 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.380 And so then that verbal cue of your safe or a hand signal of hand on heart, 00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:59.700 for example, becomes a signal that, that they are, and so their nervous 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:00.960 system can calm down a little bit. 00:19:01.285 --> 00:19:03.355 Anke: Mm, I can see that totally. 00:19:03.355 --> 00:19:08.725 There's like be very, um, videos on how helpful because it's, it can be 00:19:08.725 --> 00:19:12.805 like, you know, as you might imagine, these are my four who have crossed the 00:19:12.805 --> 00:19:17.395 bridge by now, but, but the two boys, they, you know, also the environment 00:19:17.395 --> 00:19:21.265 we're living in, so they, and I like little Leo, he got bitten when he was 00:19:21.265 --> 00:19:27.355 11 months old and he was never quite the same with, with, you know, with Right. 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:30.820 Male dog, big male dogs in confined spaces. 00:19:30.820 --> 00:19:33.130 He was fine on the beach, you know, when there's space. 00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:36.550 And he was fine when he is off lead, but like when we would walk in the 00:19:36.550 --> 00:19:41.020 little alleyway, you know, and I could really see, and I knew it 00:19:42.220 --> 00:19:47.980 like rationally that I'm like, I'm scanning the horizon, like I'm tense. 00:19:48.250 --> 00:19:54.280 But I also know the moment, like how am I supposed to re relax if I know 00:19:54.280 --> 00:19:56.560 perfectly well in the next corner? 00:19:57.070 --> 00:19:59.350 This neighbor's dog could be be right here. 00:19:59.440 --> 00:19:59.770 You know? 00:19:59.770 --> 00:20:04.720 So it was like, it's really like knowing that he isn't gonna be relaxed, you know? 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.680 And I can do, so it's like, it's hard to break that cycle, you know, when 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.850 you think like, I know he's gonna go mental much when there's a dog, so I'm 00:20:12.850 --> 00:20:15.100 tense, then that's not gonna help him. 00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:18.460 And so we can hype each other up, you know, the entire time. 00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:21.760 So I think a breathing excellent like that would've. 00:20:22.420 --> 00:20:26.080 Probably really helped to at least calm one. 00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:26.140 Yeah. 00:20:27.045 --> 00:20:29.225 1, 1, 1, 1 of us. 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:29.440 Yeah. 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:29.590 More 00:20:29.590 --> 00:20:30.880 Grisha: calm baseline at least. 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.410 So that, yeah. 00:20:32.470 --> 00:20:33.550 Yeah, absolutely. 00:20:33.550 --> 00:20:37.600 And, and you know, there's, there's a skillset part of it too, of like, if you 00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:39.910 are, you know what to do in that scenario. 00:20:39.910 --> 00:20:41.350 So, you know, we would rehearse. 00:20:41.350 --> 00:20:44.970 The, the U-turn, for example, so that there is a like, here's what 00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:48.120 I do in the situation so that like, that part of your brain can be 00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:50.580 satisfied that I know what I will do. 00:20:50.580 --> 00:20:54.750 And then the other part is like, and now that I know that I really am safe, let's 00:20:54.750 --> 00:20:56.910 at least tell the nervous system that too. 00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:01.110 Um, and also things like it might require conditioning the dog to wear a 00:21:01.110 --> 00:21:03.000 muzzle so they're comfortably muzzled. 00:21:03.090 --> 00:21:06.900 And so that if everything did go wrong, everybody would be safe. 00:21:06.990 --> 00:21:08.970 Or it may be, um. 00:21:09.985 --> 00:21:12.625 Yeah, just there's different things that, that, that can 00:21:12.625 --> 00:21:14.095 be done in those situations. 00:21:14.095 --> 00:21:16.675 And, and like I've, I've worked with dogs in Spain. 00:21:16.710 --> 00:21:20.635 The, the roads are very narrow in some places, like the Simon Road, it's 00:21:20.635 --> 00:21:23.125 like a sidewalk with, but it's a road. 00:21:23.605 --> 00:21:23.905 Yeah. 00:21:23.995 --> 00:21:24.835 It's very tiny. 00:21:25.015 --> 00:21:25.345 Anke: Yeah. 00:21:25.405 --> 00:21:27.085 I mean, especially while I was living. 00:21:27.135 --> 00:21:30.855 Was the historic part of town where literally like I was living on the 00:21:30.855 --> 00:21:35.025 wide road and I could touch both walls if I stretched my arms out, you know? 00:21:35.025 --> 00:21:37.725 So that was like the main road, you know? 00:21:37.995 --> 00:21:43.425 So yeah, there wasn't very far to go if, you know, if somebody would cross you. 00:21:43.725 --> 00:21:45.945 It was definitely a tight space. 00:21:45.945 --> 00:21:47.180 That's why we're not living there anymore. 00:21:47.695 --> 00:21:47.755 So, 00:21:49.375 --> 00:21:51.325 Grisha: so, yeah, I was gonna say, that's also part of the 00:21:51.325 --> 00:21:53.065 thing is like choosing, right? 00:21:53.065 --> 00:21:56.155 What's actually, where can the dog really be successful and where is it 00:21:56.155 --> 00:21:59.575 more just like living in a war zone that's, it's constantly going to 00:21:59.575 --> 00:22:02.605 re-trigger them and you, uh, yeah. 00:22:02.605 --> 00:22:05.815 And we do have a class called Survival Skills for that kind of 00:22:05.815 --> 00:22:10.075 scenario of like, if you have a dog and how do you get through like, 00:22:10.075 --> 00:22:11.875 everyday life without, you know. 00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:16.120 So, 'cause bat is really like long-term kind of therapy ish. 00:22:16.510 --> 00:22:18.490 And then survival skills is like how Yeah. 00:22:18.580 --> 00:22:21.340 How to just at least not have a terrible day today. 00:22:22.935 --> 00:22:23.225 Yeah. 00:22:23.245 --> 00:22:24.040 Oh yeah. 00:22:24.045 --> 00:22:26.770 There's, there's even an additional one called Urban Bat 00:22:26.770 --> 00:22:28.990 that, uh, Vivian Ourian did. 00:22:28.990 --> 00:22:34.060 And uh, yeah, so we have, uh, all those, like, we have this joke around, I 00:22:34.060 --> 00:22:36.610 dunno if you remember the old Microsoft commercials, or maybe they're still 00:22:36.610 --> 00:22:40.180 happening, but that says like, there's a, you know, there's an app for that. 00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:42.940 Um, or maybe it's the Apple has that anyway. 00:22:42.970 --> 00:22:44.770 Like, so we say there's a class for that. 00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:47.290 'cause every, everything that, you know, we've been doing this long 00:22:47.290 --> 00:22:50.650 enough that any questions, there's almost always a class for that. 00:22:51.190 --> 00:22:51.760 Anke: I love that. 00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:53.080 I love that. 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:55.330 So where can people go find those classes? 00:22:55.330 --> 00:22:56.320 Like where can they go? 00:22:56.320 --> 00:22:58.510 They go, I need a class, I need the survival class. 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:01.085 So where are we gonna send people? 00:23:03.340 --> 00:23:06.310 Grisha: Yeah, so send them to grisha stewart.com. 00:23:06.610 --> 00:23:11.830 Uh, so just my name and then I also just, I have to put a plug into another project 00:23:11.830 --> 00:23:13.690 I'm working on called Stellar Village. 00:23:13.750 --> 00:23:17.980 And so if you really wanna work on the human side of things, this is, it's a 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:22.930 separate online community space that, uh, I founded and I'm now a part of. 00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:27.485 Co-owner of, and yeah, so Stellar Village, it's a folk school for the, 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:31.770 the skills of belonging and getting our own nervous system to be relaxed. 00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:32.940 Anke: Wow. 00:23:33.030 --> 00:23:33.600 I love that. 00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:36.630 So we're gonna pop that link down below here as well. 00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:40.200 So, because obviously we are part of the puzzle there, right? 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.610 So we, we can't just only work on the dog, you know, so. 00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:45.210 Yeah. 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:46.050 Grisha: Yeah. 00:23:46.110 --> 00:23:46.590 Awesome. 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:48.205 I think that's my e as. 00:23:49.055 --> 00:23:52.865 Right was to go from this sort of like more like just train the dog to like, oh 00:23:52.865 --> 00:23:57.305 wait, actually help the dog live with us and like, and then train the human side. 00:23:57.305 --> 00:23:59.195 And now I'm really like, you know what? 00:23:59.195 --> 00:24:03.275 If humans would just have a society where we could get along a lot better, 00:24:03.275 --> 00:24:07.295 it would be, it would just like naturally flow to the how we work with dogs. 00:24:07.295 --> 00:24:07.685 So. 00:24:08.395 --> 00:24:09.145 That makes 00:24:09.385 --> 00:24:10.435 Anke: perfect sense to me. 00:24:10.735 --> 00:24:11.875 Thank you so much. 00:24:12.835 --> 00:24:13.975 It was an absolute delight. 00:24:14.035 --> 00:24:14.305 You're welcome. 00:24:14.305 --> 00:24:17.575 And, um, yeah, I'll definitely pop those links below. 00:24:17.755 --> 00:24:23.605 So with, with that wealth of, of knowledge for trainers and, you know, dog lovers 00:24:23.905 --> 00:24:25.855 and we can make this a, a better place. 00:24:26.125 --> 00:24:26.695 Thank you. 00:24:27.925 --> 00:24:28.630 Let's do that. 00:24:28.765 --> 00:24:29.365 Yeah. 00:24:29.365 --> 00:24:29.845 Take care. 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:33.120 Thanks so much for listening. 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.940 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:39.820 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:24:40.610 --> 00:24:44.100 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:24:44.530 --> 00:24:50.100 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:52.570 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:56.300 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:57.860 I'd love an introduction. 00:24:58.340 --> 00:25:00.170 Email me at Anke. 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.675 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.