1 00:00:00,003 --> 00:00:02,843 He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, 2 00:00:02,843 --> 00:00:05,744 John Ternus Welcome to Primary Technology, 3 00:00:05,744 --> 00:00:07,225 the show about the tech news that matters. 4 00:00:07,225 --> 00:00:09,065 Obviously, massive news this week. 5 00:00:09,065 --> 00:00:12,626 Tim Cook officially stepping down as CEO and John Ternus taking over 6 00:00:12,626 --> 00:00:14,707 on September 1st. We're get into all of that, 7 00:00:14,707 --> 00:00:19,428 Tim Cook's legacy, what to look for in a John Ternus led Apple and other news like 8 00:00:19,428 --> 00:00:22,669 ChatGPT 2.0 images came out. Jim and I. 9 00:00:22,839 --> 00:00:25,450 Howard Siri was teased actually at Google Cloud. 10 00:00:25,450 --> 00:00:28,952 Threads have a live chat event feature coming out or something 11 00:00:29,212 --> 00:00:32,844 and people are actually using Jason's app out in the wild and we're gonna 12 00:00:32,844 --> 00:00:36,516 get into that as well. This episode is brought to you by Framer, 13 00:00:36,516 --> 00:00:39,878 Granola, Claude and you the members who support us directly. 14 00:00:39,878 --> 00:00:41,559 Thank you for that. I'm one of your hosts, 15 00:00:41,559 --> 00:00:44,450 Stephen Robles joined by developer Jason Aten. 16 00:00:44,450 --> 00:00:45,450 How's it going Jason? 17 00:00:46,101 --> 00:00:47,603 Developers doing a lot of work there, 18 00:00:47,603 --> 00:00:51,837 but I'm fine. Okay. Is that like common law? 19 00:00:47,685 --> 00:00:49,146 If I say three times, it's true. 20 00:00:49,146 --> 00:00:52,428 If three times in a row. Yeah, 21 00:00:51,837 --> 00:00:54,179 Okay. All right. 22 00:00:52,428 --> 00:00:53,469 that's right. That's what happens. 23 00:00:53,469 --> 00:00:54,469 No, 24 00:00:54,329 --> 00:00:57,711 that's ~ Jason's app. I'll let you reveal the name later. 25 00:00:57,711 --> 00:00:59,892 It's exciting. I'm running it right now on my Mac. 26 00:00:59,892 --> 00:01:02,264 And we're to talk about it. And you have people testing it, 27 00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:04,563 awesome. do. I do have people testing it, 28 00:01:02,264 --> 00:01:03,695 like out there in the wild. Yeah. 29 00:01:03,695 --> 00:01:06,215 That's super fun. Okay. Last week, 30 00:01:04,563 --> 00:01:05,563 yes. 31 00:01:06,215 --> 00:01:09,477 the quote, the movie quote that I opened the show with was, 32 00:01:09,477 --> 00:01:12,399 sense injuries. The data could be called pain. 33 00:01:12,399 --> 00:01:13,850 Do you know what movie that's from? 34 00:01:13,850 --> 00:01:14,932 See, you always make this face. 35 00:01:14,287 --> 00:01:17,066 It's not even familiar to me. 36 00:01:14,932 --> 00:01:19,570 All right, that one was Terminator 2. 37 00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:21,302 Terminator 2. I was trying to find Robo. 38 00:01:19,926 --> 00:01:21,515 Okay, it has probably 39 00:01:21,515 --> 00:01:23,425 been 30 years since I've seen Terminator 2, 40 00:01:23,425 --> 00:01:24,425 just to be honest. 41 00:01:24,078 --> 00:01:25,078 I 42 00:01:24,578 --> 00:01:25,798 was like, it hasn't come out 30. 43 00:01:25,798 --> 00:01:30,670 wow. Yeah, it has come out. Definitely more than definitely more than 30 years. 44 00:01:27,084 --> 00:01:28,207 I don't know when it came out, 45 00:01:28,207 --> 00:01:30,421 it's been that long since I've seen it. 46 00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:32,913 And I kind of tweaked today's quote. 47 00:01:32,913 --> 00:01:35,177 He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. 48 00:01:35,177 --> 00:01:38,262 I didn't say the last part of that phrase because it would give it away. 49 00:01:38,262 --> 00:01:39,262 I don't know. 50 00:01:38,704 --> 00:01:40,245 The last part of the quote is a dark night, 51 00:01:40,245 --> 00:01:45,040 which is the name of the movie. 52 00:01:40,764 --> 00:01:45,784 Oh, he's the hero that Gotham needs but doesn't deserve. 53 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,092 Not that Gotham deserves the knees or something, 54 00:01:45,784 --> 00:01:47,884 Blah blah blah. Yeah. 55 00:01:47,092 --> 00:01:49,694 which I'm not saying that's John Ternus but he is a silent guardian 56 00:01:49,694 --> 00:01:50,694 of watchful protection. 57 00:01:50,108 --> 00:01:51,108 Maybe it is 58 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,788 that that part of the cool. I would have for sure known it. 59 00:01:52,635 --> 00:01:54,115 That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. 60 00:01:54,655 --> 00:01:56,395 yeah. All right, a couple five star reviews before we get into all 61 00:01:56,395 --> 00:02:00,975 the cook turn this news. Jim Manist at 1000 from the USA. 62 00:02:00,975 --> 00:02:04,715 He asked if the review gets to me faster with my seven gigabit download speeds. 63 00:02:04,715 --> 00:02:08,135 Yes, it does. I actually got the review immediately and battery percentage 64 00:02:08,135 --> 00:02:11,955 on phone dominant pocket front home screen dots. 65 00:02:12,297 --> 00:02:15,890 dominant pocket front home screen dots 66 00:02:13,990 --> 00:02:16,271 Dominantfroggit, ~ 67 00:02:16,451 --> 00:02:19,212 God, sorry. I was like, yeah, I had a stroke there. 68 00:02:19,212 --> 00:02:23,424 Cosion27 from the USA, he corrected his review from four to five stars when 69 00:02:23,424 --> 00:02:25,945 I added background music and then I forgot to add it in last week's episode. 70 00:02:25,945 --> 00:02:27,966 But I'll remember this one, so thanks for that. 71 00:02:27,966 --> 00:02:30,597 We're his second favorite tech podcast outside of Waveform, 72 00:02:30,597 --> 00:02:33,998 which ~ I'm down for that. If we're your second favorite tech podcast, 73 00:02:33,998 --> 00:02:35,439 I mean, we prefer to be the favorite. 74 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:41,001 We wanna win a Webby, 75 00:02:35,707 --> 00:02:39,430 Yeah, I mean, second favorite nothing wins a Webby my goodness. 76 00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:43,053 But we have to figure out how to 77 00:02:41,001 --> 00:02:42,966 but you have to pay like $500 to enter. 78 00:02:43,053 --> 00:02:45,715 say that fast. We want to win a Webby we want to win a Webby. 79 00:02:43,538 --> 00:02:45,498 We know how to say it. 80 00:02:46,278 --> 00:02:48,558 We just have to pay $500 just to enter or something. 81 00:02:48,558 --> 00:02:50,998 you know, when I worked at Riverside, 82 00:02:50,998 --> 00:02:53,258 I would always look into like the podcast awards and be like, 83 00:02:53,258 --> 00:02:55,578 how do I enter my podcast to be in the awards? 84 00:02:55,578 --> 00:02:57,678 And it's always like, well, you to enter, 85 00:02:57,678 --> 00:03:01,318 fill out this 20 page application and pay $750. 86 00:03:01,318 --> 00:03:04,938 I'm like, oh, okay, I see what you guys do. 87 00:03:03,911 --> 00:03:08,088 Yeah, every awards. Yeah, I can't say anymore because I work for a company 88 00:03:04,938 --> 00:03:07,838 Yeah, yeah, we know. 89 00:03:08,088 --> 00:03:10,022 that has an award program, so I should just stop. 90 00:03:10,374 --> 00:03:11,374 See, 91 00:03:10,815 --> 00:03:13,819 this is like the... Listen, ladies and gentlemen, 92 00:03:13,819 --> 00:03:17,594 anytime you travel, if you ever read one of those magazines where 93 00:03:17,594 --> 00:03:22,541 it talks about like the top 10 places to eat in Venice or whatever, 94 00:03:22,541 --> 00:03:24,824 it's all sponsored. It's all sponsored content. 95 00:03:24,071 --> 00:03:25,071 Yeah, the 96 00:03:25,045 --> 00:03:27,369 top 10 places that gave us $1,000. 97 00:03:28,348 --> 00:03:32,832 That's the thing. People knock on creators and sponsorship 98 00:03:32,832 --> 00:03:36,105 and disclosures and there's so many industries where it's 99 00:03:36,105 --> 00:03:38,297 all sponsorship and there's no disclosures. 100 00:03:38,297 --> 00:03:40,049 Travel industry being one of the most heinous. 101 00:03:40,049 --> 00:03:43,882 But anyway, this podcast will not pay to get an award. 102 00:03:43,882 --> 00:03:47,886 If we get an award, we probably won't because we're not paying to be in. 103 00:03:47,737 --> 00:03:48,737 We 104 00:03:47,968 --> 00:03:49,744 won't get an award, but if we do, 105 00:03:49,744 --> 00:03:53,746 it won't be because we paid. It'll be because someone made a mistake. 106 00:03:50,972 --> 00:03:51,972 That's right. 107 00:03:54,567 --> 00:04:00,842 The podcast 728 from the USA he I corrected that I messaged the person 108 00:04:00,842 --> 00:04:03,144 on social media with they're like I can't see the transcript anymore because 109 00:04:03,144 --> 00:04:04,805 we added video on Apple podcast Yes, 110 00:04:04,805 --> 00:04:08,918 it's a total Apple thing. I'd actually did an entire video on the best podcast apps 111 00:04:09,058 --> 00:04:12,201 and talked about all these distinctions I'll link that video in the show notes, 112 00:04:12,201 --> 00:04:16,144 but he still gave us five stars and I appreciate that and Shahab from Canada said 113 00:04:16,144 --> 00:04:19,507 horizontal tabs and That's at the top right? 114 00:04:17,806 --> 00:04:19,355 That's at the top. That's normal. 115 00:04:19,355 --> 00:04:20,355 Yeah, okay. 116 00:04:19,507 --> 00:04:21,038 Okay. That's the way it was intended. 117 00:04:21,038 --> 00:04:22,049 Yeah, that's right. Okay 118 00:04:22,509 --> 00:04:25,175 and also Apple TV. Sorry, I was just poking on there. 119 00:04:25,175 --> 00:04:29,253 It's fine. I also use horizontal tabs across the top in one profile. 120 00:04:27,702 --> 00:04:28,702 Nah, I know, know. 121 00:04:29,253 --> 00:04:31,677 I just use the vertical tabs in a different one. 122 00:04:31,210 --> 00:04:32,210 Yeah, 123 00:04:32,171 --> 00:04:33,893 All right. And last couple of things. 124 00:04:33,893 --> 00:04:35,755 I launched another podcast last week. 125 00:04:35,755 --> 00:04:37,697 I kind of soft launched it and I just told people. 126 00:04:37,697 --> 00:04:39,969 But I just I wanted to start another thing. 127 00:04:39,969 --> 00:04:42,902 I don't know why. I had some do I got a good domain and I was like, 128 00:04:42,902 --> 00:04:45,765 no, that wasn't the domain was the first thing I bought. 129 00:04:45,727 --> 00:04:46,937 I mean, that is a good domain. 130 00:04:45,765 --> 00:04:46,806 But I did have the idea first. 131 00:04:46,806 --> 00:04:50,880 It is a good domain. Top five dot tech is the domain which those could. 132 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,434 But no, I wanted a reason to write a regular newsletter. 133 00:04:54,912 --> 00:04:58,265 And then I was like, I should make this like an audio podcast too. 134 00:04:58,265 --> 00:05:00,487 And then I was like, well, I should just do a video series. 135 00:05:00,487 --> 00:05:02,869 And so it's all the things. You can either watch this, 136 00:05:02,869 --> 00:05:06,152 listen to this or read it. And yeah, 137 00:05:06,152 --> 00:05:07,853 every Friday, I'm just gonna share five things, 138 00:05:07,853 --> 00:05:09,995 something to read, watch, listen to, 139 00:05:09,995 --> 00:05:12,487 download and something deep about tech. 140 00:05:12,487 --> 00:05:14,119 I already know what I'm gonna be talking about tomorrow. 141 00:05:14,119 --> 00:05:15,880 But yeah, if you wanna hear me again, 142 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,702 it's a five minute show. Like it's just, 143 00:05:17,702 --> 00:05:20,764 if you wanna hear me again. 144 00:05:18,135 --> 00:05:19,851 If you want to hear me again. 145 00:05:20,764 --> 00:05:22,516 ~ No, but it's... 146 00:05:22,909 --> 00:05:24,950 I'm trying to pick the five interesting things not just like 147 00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:28,420 new things like tomorrow I'm gonna be talking about something like 148 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:32,021 an older podcast episode But not something that you might have heard of 149 00:05:32,021 --> 00:05:34,962 so anyway if you want to sign up for that newsletter or get it as a podcast 150 00:05:34,962 --> 00:05:39,463 or watch it as a video it'll all it'll be everywhere and then also Will canard 151 00:05:39,463 --> 00:05:44,204 we talked about hey there might be a industry for people who check vibe coding apps 152 00:05:44,804 --> 00:05:48,375 and Yeah, apparently it's an industry already will can art send me a link 153 00:05:48,375 --> 00:05:51,476 he has a blog which will link in the show notes where he talked about 154 00:05:52,507 --> 00:05:56,734 and how to optimize your vibe coded projects and what to watch for. 155 00:05:56,734 --> 00:05:59,198 And yeah, it was a great article, 156 00:05:59,198 --> 00:06:03,446 but also apparently this is an industry that is literally being created 157 00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:05,208 in real time. And that's pretty wild. 158 00:06:05,781 --> 00:06:06,781 Yeah, 159 00:06:06,091 --> 00:06:10,324 because there are a lot of people who work at companies that are just going 160 00:06:10,324 --> 00:06:14,497 to start using cloud code and they're going to not have a job. 161 00:06:14,497 --> 00:06:16,719 And this is actually a great thing for them to do. 162 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:20,090 So yeah, that's happening. So it was great. 163 00:06:20,090 --> 00:06:21,990 We'll link that in the show notes as well. 164 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:25,810 Well, I don't know if there was really any news this week. 165 00:06:25,810 --> 00:06:28,370 Just kidding. I want it to be sarcastic at least once. 166 00:06:28,370 --> 00:06:34,230 So it is official. Tim Cook stepping down as CEO as of September 1st. 167 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:38,710 John Ternus to become CEO. Tim Cook will move to the chairman of 168 00:06:38,710 --> 00:06:40,310 the board of directors of Apple. 169 00:06:40,310 --> 00:06:45,970 Johnny Soruji will be elevated to a position of his chief. 170 00:06:46,912 --> 00:06:49,023 hardware officer, that's right, 171 00:06:47,371 --> 00:06:48,469 Hardware Officer again. 172 00:06:49,023 --> 00:06:55,266 chief hardware officer. And every hot take has been said. 173 00:06:55,266 --> 00:06:58,308 And so what do you call a hot take that's well thought out, 174 00:06:58,308 --> 00:07:00,509 it's deep, it's not hot, but it's not cold. 175 00:07:00,509 --> 00:07:04,512 It's a, I don't know, a dish best served hot take. 176 00:07:04,512 --> 00:07:07,633 It's a meh, thank you. 177 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:05,983 A marinated take. 178 00:07:07,633 --> 00:07:08,914 This is, we have. 179 00:07:08,588 --> 00:07:09,588 I don't know. 180 00:07:08,979 --> 00:07:11,736 It's been sitting on the counter for a couple days in its juices. 181 00:07:12,262 --> 00:07:13,262 That's right, 182 00:07:12,743 --> 00:07:15,634 but I feel like, you know, everybody recorded emergency podcast. 183 00:07:15,634 --> 00:07:19,937 We did not. And, you know, a lot of people I think have been thinking about this 184 00:07:19,937 --> 00:07:23,599 for a long time. And we've talked about Apple CEO and Tim Cook, 185 00:07:23,599 --> 00:07:26,271 what is a product CEO. But the last few days, 186 00:07:26,271 --> 00:07:27,871 I've been thinking about it a lot. 187 00:07:27,871 --> 00:07:31,914 And I don't know, I wanted to talk about it several different ways. 188 00:07:31,914 --> 00:07:35,676 You know, I want to talk about Tim Cook and a little bit of his legacy 189 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:38,838 and how it's kind of being seen and shaped. 190 00:07:39,208 --> 00:07:43,541 Now that he is officially stepping down a ceo I did a video about john Ternus 191 00:07:43,702 --> 00:07:47,505 and kind of his history at apple Which the video is doing pretty well, 192 00:07:47,505 --> 00:07:49,786 which is nice, but I learned some things about john Ternus. 193 00:07:49,786 --> 00:07:55,430 I did not know before and I'm excited i'm optimistic about him being ceo 194 00:07:55,691 --> 00:07:58,263 And so i'll link my video in the show notes and jason has a couple articles. 195 00:07:58,263 --> 00:08:03,677 We're going to get to as well and then german Can I just say bloomberg? 196 00:08:03,677 --> 00:08:08,201 Bloomberg I was paying for bloomberg some amount 197 00:08:08,617 --> 00:08:11,219 But apparently it wasn't enough because I couldn't read some of it. 198 00:08:11,219 --> 00:08:17,993 I couldn't read some of week. They German was literally Bloomberg 199 00:08:13,509 --> 00:08:15,096 Or like, give us more money, please. 200 00:08:15,096 --> 00:08:17,166 You ran out of credits. 201 00:08:17,993 --> 00:08:20,625 was literally like, hey, give us more money. 202 00:08:20,625 --> 00:08:22,346 And I was like, for real? Like, 203 00:08:22,346 --> 00:08:25,729 do we really have to do this? But German has been writing a ton 204 00:08:26,129 --> 00:08:28,170 and he actually posted a photo. 205 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:32,253 So after the announcement, there was an internal Apple town hall 206 00:08:32,934 --> 00:08:37,777 and German literally posted a photo that someone took inside the town hall. 207 00:08:38,381 --> 00:08:41,542 of Tim Cook and John Turness on stage addressing the Apple staff. 208 00:08:41,542 --> 00:08:46,693 And I was like, bro, I feel like some AI or detective, 209 00:08:46,693 --> 00:08:50,534 whatever, can like, what angle is this photo taken at what zoom level? 210 00:08:50,534 --> 00:08:54,485 And they could find out like what person inside Apple is sending German photos 211 00:08:54,485 --> 00:08:57,286 of their town hall that this felt like, 212 00:08:57,286 --> 00:09:00,987 I don't know, another level in like the leak culture. 213 00:09:00,987 --> 00:09:04,268 I don't know. So clearly someone inside Apple, 214 00:09:04,268 --> 00:09:06,189 so much so that they were at this town hall. 215 00:09:06,495 --> 00:09:08,569 Talking about the transition, sent German a photo. 216 00:09:08,569 --> 00:09:11,094 That seems crazy. That seems crazy to me. 217 00:09:09,623 --> 00:09:11,443 Yeah, it does kind of seem crazy, 218 00:09:11,094 --> 00:09:14,481 Yeah, I don't know. Please, 219 00:09:11,443 --> 00:09:13,503 you're right. Before we get into it, 220 00:09:13,503 --> 00:09:14,503 I have a question. 221 00:09:14,481 --> 00:09:15,481 yeah. 222 00:09:14,763 --> 00:09:17,763 Where were you when you found out? 223 00:09:17,763 --> 00:09:19,515 And how did you find out? 224 00:09:19,515 --> 00:09:22,162 I think... was it you texted me? 225 00:09:21,757 --> 00:09:22,757 My text 226 00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:23,658 message? Okay, I was just curious. 227 00:09:23,658 --> 00:09:27,038 Yeah, you texted me. It was Monday at 4 45 p.m. 228 00:09:27,038 --> 00:09:29,878 And you texted me the Apple Newsroom article with the word, 229 00:09:29,878 --> 00:09:34,798 holy and nothing else. And I was literally 230 00:09:34,798 --> 00:09:37,958 in the middle of something. 231 00:09:37,958 --> 00:09:42,118 I forget what it was. And I was like, 232 00:09:42,118 --> 00:09:48,658 I'm OK, this is huge. I need to finish what I'm doing because the next 233 00:09:48,658 --> 00:09:51,878 two days are just this like whatever it is, 234 00:09:51,878 --> 00:09:52,878 it is this. 235 00:09:53,219 --> 00:09:56,191 And I also thought like, I want to make a video about this. 236 00:09:56,191 --> 00:09:58,252 I don't want to do a hot take video. 237 00:09:58,252 --> 00:10:01,154 I'm not going to try and make a five minute video right now. 238 00:10:01,154 --> 00:10:02,915 And so I finished what I was doing. 239 00:10:02,915 --> 00:10:04,817 I looked at your text. I was like, 240 00:10:04,817 --> 00:10:09,110 okay, it's happening. no, 241 00:10:07,619 --> 00:10:08,650 This is not a drill. 242 00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:11,041 this is not a drill. And I thought, 243 00:10:11,041 --> 00:10:15,304 let me make a short slash reel slash TikTok of just saying the thing. 244 00:10:15,304 --> 00:10:19,627 So I did that. And then I spent Monday evening doing some research. 245 00:10:19,627 --> 00:10:20,918 We're to talk about that later. 246 00:10:21,581 --> 00:10:25,377 and made the video just about John Ternus and went from there. 247 00:10:25,377 --> 00:10:28,062 But it was you. How did you did you get the notification from the Apple Newsroom? 248 00:10:27,893 --> 00:10:28,893 So 249 00:10:28,163 --> 00:10:30,834 no, I've never been more angry in my life. 250 00:10:30,834 --> 00:10:36,426 No, that's not true. But I was driving and my editor texted me and I 251 00:10:34,450 --> 00:10:35,450 yeah. 252 00:10:36,426 --> 00:10:39,266 was driving an hour to a soccer game, 253 00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:41,047 which I love going to our kids to soccer games, 254 00:10:41,047 --> 00:10:43,128 but our daughter had a high school soccer game. 255 00:10:41,552 --> 00:10:42,552 The timing. 256 00:10:43,128 --> 00:10:47,229 And I didn't even have my backpack with me because I'm going to a soccer game. 257 00:10:47,229 --> 00:10:52,010 Like, like, I don't take my computer with me to soccer games, 258 00:10:52,006 --> 00:10:53,069 Fair. That's fair. 259 00:10:52,010 --> 00:10:53,610 especially like, so I'm driving, 260 00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:55,371 I got the text message. 261 00:10:55,935 --> 00:10:58,475 I texted you at 445. I had just gotten the text message. 262 00:10:58,475 --> 00:11:03,035 I was like just starting my trip for a fleeting second. 263 00:11:01,349 --> 00:11:02,349 Mmm. 264 00:11:03,035 --> 00:11:04,895 I was like, do I just go back home? 265 00:11:04,895 --> 00:11:06,915 And I'm like, no, I'm going to the soccer game. 266 00:11:06,915 --> 00:11:11,395 So I ended up writing the article on my phone when I got there, 267 00:11:07,513 --> 00:11:08,513 Yeah. 268 00:11:11,395 --> 00:11:13,515 like in the 30 minutes of the warm up, 269 00:11:13,515 --> 00:11:20,035 I listened. I listened to the verge cast when I like the live one because 270 00:11:14,219 --> 00:11:15,875 This is like the Neelay Patel story, 271 00:11:15,875 --> 00:11:16,875 writing about St. Louis. 272 00:11:18,914 --> 00:11:19,914 Live, Yeah. 273 00:11:20,035 --> 00:11:22,735 it had just wrapped up. And so I was I didn't listen to a live. 274 00:11:22,735 --> 00:11:24,595 I listened to the replay like shortly after that, 275 00:11:24,595 --> 00:11:25,595 but the YouTube stream. 276 00:11:26,267 --> 00:11:30,082 and wrote the first article which was about Tim Cook keeping his most important 277 00:11:30,082 --> 00:11:33,171 job and then later that night I got home and I wrote but I did text my wife 278 00:11:33,171 --> 00:11:38,042 I'm like listen hon Tim Cook just retired or he just knows he's retiring when 279 00:11:38,042 --> 00:11:42,367 I get home from this game I'm gonna have to work gotta work so 280 00:11:39,781 --> 00:11:41,867 I'm going to be locked, locked down, 281 00:11:41,867 --> 00:11:42,867 locked down. 282 00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:47,564 Do you remember where you were when you learned that Steve Jobs had passed? 283 00:11:47,564 --> 00:11:50,145 I don't exactly remember where I was, 284 00:11:50,145 --> 00:11:55,536 but I do remember it. And I viscerally remember the like the 285 00:11:56,116 --> 00:12:01,618 the person who posted the Apple logo with the Tim with Steve Jobs profile. 286 00:11:59,837 --> 00:12:03,649 Yeah, Steve. Yeah. Yeah, 287 00:12:01,618 --> 00:12:03,178 And I remember their home page. 288 00:12:03,178 --> 00:12:05,339 I don't remember where I was, but I do. 289 00:12:03,649 --> 00:12:04,649 yeah, yeah. 290 00:12:05,339 --> 00:12:07,610 I will always remember where I was when I found out Tim Cook 291 00:12:07,610 --> 00:12:10,170 was retiring because it's I know people think this is crazy, 292 00:12:10,170 --> 00:12:15,502 but like honestly, a change in CEO at a company like Apple. 293 00:12:16,056 --> 00:12:17,457 who has only had eight of them, 294 00:12:17,457 --> 00:12:22,148 well, will have eight with Ternus and only three that anybody knows about. 295 00:12:22,148 --> 00:12:29,031 Right? And it is basically the biggest business news 296 00:12:22,181 --> 00:12:24,618 Correct. That. That point is important. 297 00:12:29,151 --> 00:12:32,833 and very big tech news at every level of the stack. 298 00:12:29,343 --> 00:12:31,226 Yeah. Yeah. 299 00:12:32,833 --> 00:12:34,494 And I'm like, and I'm driving in a car. 300 00:12:35,385 --> 00:12:36,385 That 301 00:12:35,665 --> 00:12:38,835 is the perfect storm of situations. 302 00:12:38,594 --> 00:12:39,594 I think I 303 00:12:38,935 --> 00:12:42,130 got a tweet to you or a text to you and I posted it on threads and that, 304 00:12:42,130 --> 00:12:43,241 and then I had to keep driving. 305 00:12:42,313 --> 00:12:43,313 Right, was it. 306 00:12:44,244 --> 00:12:46,586 I still remember where I was when I heard about Steve Jobs passing. 307 00:12:46,586 --> 00:12:50,748 And at the highest level, Tim Cook was named, 308 00:12:50,748 --> 00:12:54,431 I think it was either interim CEO or full CEO before he passed. 309 00:12:54,431 --> 00:12:57,477 He was named CEO in August and he passed in October. 310 00:12:57,296 --> 00:12:58,296 and Steve 311 00:12:57,646 --> 00:13:02,739 passed in October. But it was clear that when Tim Cook was appointed CEO, 312 00:13:02,739 --> 00:13:05,641 it was because of Steve Jobs' health. 313 00:13:05,641 --> 00:13:10,044 And there was a bunch of news in the years leading up to him passing about 314 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:06,900 Yes. 315 00:13:10,044 --> 00:13:15,447 his waffling out. And if you read the Apple 50 Years David Pogue book, 316 00:13:15,447 --> 00:13:20,349 he talks about internally and those close to Steve, 317 00:13:20,349 --> 00:13:24,171 they knew a lot was going on and they did not reveal a lot of it to 318 00:13:24,171 --> 00:13:25,362 the public in the... 319 00:13:25,724 --> 00:13:26,970 years leading up to his death. 320 00:13:26,970 --> 00:13:28,347 He'd been sick for seven years. 321 00:13:28,347 --> 00:13:32,349 He missed it for a long time, And so I think, 322 00:13:32,349 --> 00:13:37,982 and feel, like this transition just at the highest level feels 323 00:13:37,982 --> 00:13:44,966 so different because that transition was obviously clouded by this CEO, 324 00:13:44,966 --> 00:13:47,117 Steve Jobs, did not leave on his own accord. 325 00:13:47,117 --> 00:13:51,920 Steve Jobs had to leave because he was literally about to die. 326 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,202 that just, the first part of Tim Cook's legacy that... 327 00:13:56,674 --> 00:13:58,836 I think is the most positive and we should all take notice. 328 00:13:58,836 --> 00:14:03,530 Like he took over from that, not from a CEO voluntarily stepping down 329 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:06,602 and handing the reins to him. While Jobs did hand him the reins, 330 00:14:06,602 --> 00:14:11,346 it was out of necessity. And while Steve Jobs obviously chose the right 331 00:14:11,346 --> 00:14:15,759 guy because he has grown Apple tremendously and however you feel about 332 00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:21,234 Tim Cook's in the services revenue and the little things like he did his job. 333 00:14:21,234 --> 00:14:26,218 And one of the things in a lot of leadership situations in businesses 334 00:14:26,478 --> 00:14:31,862 when there's a beloved leader or CEO and they have been loved and the CEO 335 00:14:31,862 --> 00:14:34,503 for a long time, which Steve Jobs was before he died, 336 00:14:34,503 --> 00:14:38,186 and he released all the iconic products like the iPod, 337 00:14:38,186 --> 00:14:43,930 the iPhone, the iPad, to take over as the leadership role from that 338 00:14:44,451 --> 00:14:47,853 is typically untenable. And a lot of times in business situations, 339 00:14:47,853 --> 00:14:51,055 like it just doesn't work. Like whoever's CEO after that will 340 00:14:51,055 --> 00:14:55,358 be short-lived and will be seen as a failure and then there'll be a 341 00:14:55,610 --> 00:14:57,630 another CEO that might last a little longer. 342 00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:02,630 The fact that Tim Cook was able to take over and has been CEO for 15 years 343 00:15:02,630 --> 00:15:05,850 is pretty astonishing. like, 344 00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:09,790 whether he filled the shoes, I don't know if that's the right analogy, 345 00:15:09,790 --> 00:15:15,070 but he did his job, which was to take over as CEO of Apple, 346 00:15:15,070 --> 00:15:19,130 make it successful, grow it, and then hand it off to the next person 347 00:15:19,130 --> 00:15:20,630 to innovate for the next 15 years. 348 00:15:20,630 --> 00:15:23,630 He did that. Does that, I mean, 349 00:15:22,867 --> 00:15:24,248 Yeah, yeah, Tim Cook 350 00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:24,630 he did that. 351 00:15:24,248 --> 00:15:28,001 is easily, I don't think you can make the argument, 352 00:15:28,001 --> 00:15:32,645 maybe, maybe Sachin Adela, but Tim Cook is easily the most successful 353 00:15:32,645 --> 00:15:35,707 CEO of all time. Like now, 354 00:15:35,707 --> 00:15:41,902 he did bet some of that success is owed to Steve Jobs because 355 00:15:40,849 --> 00:15:41,849 100%. 356 00:15:41,902 --> 00:15:45,656 the most successful product in history is the iPhone and Tim Cook reaped most 357 00:15:45,656 --> 00:15:47,177 of the benefit of that, right? 358 00:15:47,637 --> 00:15:52,737 Apple became the most valuable company in the world shortly after Tim Cook took over 359 00:15:52,737 --> 00:15:56,997 as CEO. And it has mostly been the most valuable company in the world during 360 00:15:56,997 --> 00:16:00,497 the entire his entire time. There have been like right now it's like third. 361 00:16:00,497 --> 00:16:02,857 It was the first company to 1 trillion. 362 00:16:02,857 --> 00:16:04,717 It was the first company to 3 trillion. 363 00:16:04,717 --> 00:16:09,757 Like it is I can remember thinking like that is incontinent to think that where 364 00:16:09,757 --> 00:16:12,137 are these we're done. The time is over. 365 00:16:11,362 --> 00:16:12,362 This is it. 366 00:16:12,499 --> 00:16:14,180 because once you've reached a trillion, 367 00:16:13,181 --> 00:16:14,181 That's it. 368 00:16:14,180 --> 00:16:17,752 it was unfathomable that companies would reach a $4 trillion market cap. 369 00:16:17,752 --> 00:16:20,143 And there's like three of them now that maybe four, 370 00:16:17,849 --> 00:16:20,139 Right. Right. 371 00:16:20,143 --> 00:16:21,653 I don't even know where Google is right now. 372 00:16:21,653 --> 00:16:26,906 So Tim Cook is without question the most successful CEO I think of all time. 373 00:16:26,906 --> 00:16:31,058 Like I don't know who you would say is more successful just in terms of 374 00:16:31,578 --> 00:16:32,839 all of the ways you would measure it. 375 00:16:32,839 --> 00:16:36,841 And I just wanna be clear, there are a lot of people who I've heard argue, 376 00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:40,049 Okay, sure. If you go by Tim Cook's standard of the numbers. 377 00:16:40,049 --> 00:16:41,929 Well, first of all, like you're the CEO of a public company, 378 00:16:41,929 --> 00:16:44,289 that is the measurement. Like just to be clear, 379 00:16:44,289 --> 00:16:45,949 that is how you define success. 380 00:16:45,949 --> 00:16:50,029 But also the fact that he just didn't break anything. 381 00:16:50,029 --> 00:16:52,989 I think you can, other than maybe some developer relations, 382 00:16:52,989 --> 00:16:57,449 but I think he had the wherewithal, 383 00:16:57,449 --> 00:16:58,909 and this might've been his biggest strength. 384 00:16:58,909 --> 00:17:03,161 He had the wherewithal to recognize what had been set up before him. 385 00:17:03,613 --> 00:17:07,144 And he had the wherewithal to follow his strengths and some of that some 386 00:17:07,144 --> 00:17:12,677 of his weaknesses caused some interesting interim inter interstitial problems, 387 00:17:12,677 --> 00:17:14,568 you know, with like we get the butterfly keyboard, 388 00:17:12,709 --> 00:17:13,709 red. 389 00:17:14,568 --> 00:17:19,049 whatever. But I don't I think if you had replaced Steve Jobs with a product guy, 390 00:17:19,049 --> 00:17:22,601 Apple would be basically not a thing we think about much. 391 00:17:22,601 --> 00:17:25,583 I think, well, they still had the iPhone. 392 00:17:25,583 --> 00:17:30,166 I think they would not have been successful and may have not have... 393 00:17:30,166 --> 00:17:35,060 Like, let me say this. So the timing was interesting because this 394 00:17:35,060 --> 00:17:38,712 has long been rumored. German has been talking about it for like the last year. 395 00:17:38,712 --> 00:17:41,434 I think the Financial Times or the Information, 396 00:17:41,434 --> 00:17:43,175 they predicted it would happen earlier. 397 00:17:43,175 --> 00:17:46,097 And, you we even thought maybe after DubDub, 398 00:17:46,097 --> 00:17:48,019 they'll make the announcement or whatever. 399 00:17:48,019 --> 00:17:49,510 And so it does feel like... 400 00:17:49,992 --> 00:17:51,972 maybe a little sooner than a lot of people expected. 401 00:17:51,972 --> 00:17:56,612 during the town hall, and these are remarks that were reported to Gurman, 402 00:17:56,612 --> 00:17:58,792 I'm gonna put the nine to five Mac article in the show notes so 403 00:17:58,792 --> 00:18:03,652 you can actually read it. But he said that Tim Cook knew it was the right time 404 00:18:03,652 --> 00:18:06,412 to step down because three things had to be true. 405 00:18:06,412 --> 00:18:09,832 Apple's product roadmap needed to be incredible. 406 00:18:09,832 --> 00:18:12,232 Okay, we don't know what that is, 407 00:18:12,232 --> 00:18:15,492 but I guess it's incredible. Right? 408 00:18:13,974 --> 00:18:14,974 Vision Pro 3. 409 00:18:15,492 --> 00:18:17,512 Apple's financials needed to be going, 410 00:18:17,512 --> 00:18:18,812 doing great, check. 411 00:18:19,802 --> 00:18:23,073 And turn this had to be ready for the role again Tim Cook would know that most 412 00:18:23,073 --> 00:18:28,495 of all and so it seems like those three Plus being 65 years 413 00:18:28,495 --> 00:18:32,787 old retirement age like it was he made a decision like it was time time 414 00:18:32,787 --> 00:18:35,987 to go and obviously this has been Extremely calculated probably over 415 00:18:35,987 --> 00:18:40,250 the last five to ten years like this transition good 416 00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:42,341 Well, I was gonna say and Ben Thompson makes a good point. 417 00:18:42,341 --> 00:18:45,914 That was not a part of that. But I think is worth mentioning, 418 00:18:45,914 --> 00:18:51,128 which is that Apple is at a point where it has to make decisions today that will 419 00:18:51,128 --> 00:18:53,190 affect the business in 10 or 12 years. 420 00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:56,512 So Tim Cook should not be the person making those decisions. 421 00:18:56,512 --> 00:19:00,775 Once you reach a point in your tenure where the critical strategic decisions that 422 00:19:00,775 --> 00:19:04,538 have to be made are clearly going to play out after you're gone, 423 00:19:04,538 --> 00:19:07,060 you shouldn't be the person making those decisions. 424 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:08,340 That's a good point. 425 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,480 you it's 426 00:19:08,061 --> 00:19:10,022 it's in so when it comes to things like AI, 427 00:19:10,022 --> 00:19:13,586 when it comes to how that whether Apple is going to decide to invest 428 00:19:13,586 --> 00:19:14,807 in building foundation models, 429 00:19:14,807 --> 00:19:16,758 or if it's just going to be the device where everybody runs out like 430 00:19:16,758 --> 00:19:20,382 all of those things. That is a critical piece of this that I think 431 00:19:20,382 --> 00:19:25,537 is worth mentioning that Tim Cook probably recognized that Apple is heading into 432 00:19:25,537 --> 00:19:27,979 a direction where he will not be able to see it through. 433 00:19:27,979 --> 00:19:29,060 And so 434 00:19:29,712 --> 00:19:32,635 he in he probably has some firsthand experience. 435 00:19:32,635 --> 00:19:36,499 Steve Jobs set things in motion that obviously Steve Jobs wasn't able 436 00:19:36,499 --> 00:19:40,163 to see through. And Tim Cook had the first hand experience of being 437 00:19:40,163 --> 00:19:43,796 the person who had to simply figure out what did he mean by this? 438 00:19:43,796 --> 00:19:45,180 Like, I guess we're doing this thing. 439 00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:46,180 So 440 00:19:45,312 --> 00:19:46,312 Right. 441 00:19:45,792 --> 00:19:47,412 And one thing, so about Tim Cook's legacy, 442 00:19:47,412 --> 00:19:52,632 when Steve Jobs was CEO of Apple in the years of the iPhone and the iPad, 443 00:19:52,632 --> 00:19:56,692 iPod, he was the nucleus of Apple. 444 00:19:56,692 --> 00:19:59,852 And it felt like Apple was synonymous with Steve Jobs. 445 00:19:59,852 --> 00:20:01,932 Like it was almost one in the same, 446 00:20:01,932 --> 00:20:04,292 like the Venn diagram. You just thought of them together. 447 00:20:04,292 --> 00:20:05,992 And you saw that in every keynote. 448 00:20:05,992 --> 00:20:10,892 mean, Steve Jobs was the one on stage for 80 to 90 % of every keynote. 449 00:20:10,892 --> 00:20:12,813 demoing the products, talking about the products, 450 00:20:12,813 --> 00:20:17,375 Steve Jobs was Apple. And it's, 451 00:20:17,375 --> 00:20:21,516 I feel like I hope they get back to in-person events as a side note, 452 00:20:21,516 --> 00:20:23,677 maybe with John Turnis now in the CEO seat. 453 00:20:23,677 --> 00:20:27,849 And while there were big names that you were familiar with in the Steve Jobs era, 454 00:20:27,849 --> 00:20:31,160 like you saw Johnny Ive in the videos where he was in the white room 455 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,882 and you saw Scott Forstall on stage talking about software, 456 00:20:34,882 --> 00:20:36,542 Bob Mansfield talking about hardware, 457 00:20:36,542 --> 00:20:38,243 and obviously Phil Schiller was there. 458 00:20:38,243 --> 00:20:40,584 They all felt peripheral. 459 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,983 And I do feel like one of the benefits of Tim Cook not being 460 00:20:45,983 --> 00:20:51,947 the charismatic leader that Steve Jobs was is that it has allowed other names 461 00:20:52,068 --> 00:20:57,241 and faces to bubble up to associate with Apple as a brand, 462 00:20:57,241 --> 00:21:01,034 which I think is positive. Like when one company hinges on a singular person, 463 00:21:01,034 --> 00:21:04,776 that's why it felt like such a huge deal when Steve Jobs died. 464 00:21:04,776 --> 00:21:06,117 It was like, this might be it. 465 00:21:06,117 --> 00:21:08,239 Like who else, who else can do it? 466 00:21:08,239 --> 00:21:10,120 But over the last 15 years, 467 00:21:10,679 --> 00:21:14,772 Since Tim Cook is not the guy to be the one on stage demoing every product 468 00:21:14,772 --> 00:21:16,733 and doing it, now we know like, 469 00:21:16,733 --> 00:21:22,056 ~ Craig Federighi. Like, I was not as familiar with Craig Federighi before Tim Cook. 470 00:21:22,056 --> 00:21:26,009 He was there doing stuff. But now he's like a character, 471 00:21:26,009 --> 00:21:29,201 a face of Apple. Same with Greg Joswiak. 472 00:21:29,201 --> 00:21:31,963 Like, people post about him on social media and take pictures with him. 473 00:21:31,963 --> 00:21:33,964 And we have Johnny Srouji. It's like, 474 00:21:33,964 --> 00:21:36,756 you know, I just, I knew Bob Mansfield's name, 475 00:21:36,756 --> 00:21:38,217 but I wouldn't even be able to tell you what he did or whatever. 476 00:21:38,217 --> 00:21:39,818 But like, we now see this like, 477 00:21:40,056 --> 00:21:43,598 team of people and every keynote that's been pre-recorded, 478 00:21:43,598 --> 00:21:46,740 like you see all these faces and names associated with the products, 479 00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:50,863 and I think it's positive that you can now see all the people that 480 00:21:50,863 --> 00:21:53,664 are making these incredible products and who make up Apple, 481 00:21:53,664 --> 00:22:00,198 not just the CEO. And now, I think we're getting a CEO that is closer 482 00:22:00,198 --> 00:22:02,000 to the product person of Steve Jobs, 483 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,111 and hopefully we do see on stage more often, 484 00:22:04,111 --> 00:22:05,892 maybe even in in-person events. 485 00:22:06,204 --> 00:22:07,995 and we have this amazing team around him. 486 00:22:07,995 --> 00:22:10,346 So that's one of the things I feel like that makes me optimistic. 487 00:22:10,346 --> 00:22:14,628 Now, while Tim Cook might have not had the charisma to be that onstage guy, 488 00:22:14,628 --> 00:22:16,388 but he had the business mindset, 489 00:22:16,388 --> 00:22:19,470 now we do have someone that could probably be the onstage guy and has been. 490 00:22:19,470 --> 00:22:20,800 When I made my John Turnis video, 491 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,851 he was the one that introduced the Apple Silicon transition. 492 00:22:22,851 --> 00:22:25,712 He was the one that introduced the Mac Studio and Studio Display. 493 00:22:25,712 --> 00:22:28,073 He was the last person to introduce the Mac Pro. 494 00:22:28,073 --> 00:22:31,795 John Turnis has been the guy in all these keynotes talking about stuff. 495 00:22:31,795 --> 00:22:34,476 And I don't know, I'm excited to see him be that guy. 496 00:22:34,476 --> 00:22:36,336 Why, I don't want to go too far down this, 497 00:22:36,336 --> 00:22:37,496 because there's a lot of things to talk about. 498 00:22:37,496 --> 00:22:39,936 But that has always been a weird thing. 499 00:22:37,545 --> 00:22:38,545 Yeah. 500 00:22:39,936 --> 00:22:42,770 Steve Jobs was singular. He's just Steve Jobs. 501 00:22:41,136 --> 00:22:42,136 Correct. 502 00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:45,770 So it made sense that he was the person who was on stage. 503 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:48,790 I don't know why people think that it has to be the CEO. 504 00:22:48,790 --> 00:22:52,470 Why were people disappointed that Tim Cook wasn't that guy when there were other 505 00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:55,330 people? I hope we still get to see Craig Federighi. 506 00:22:53,718 --> 00:22:57,990 Hmm. yeah, absolutely. Right. 507 00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:56,770 I hope we still get to see John. 508 00:22:56,770 --> 00:22:59,730 I don't care if we see any more or less of John Ternus. 509 00:23:00,310 --> 00:23:05,862 I think it's because when you know the person leading 510 00:23:00,483 --> 00:23:01,484 I don't know why that matters. 511 00:23:05,862 --> 00:23:11,594 the company cares so deeply about the products and how customers will 512 00:23:11,594 --> 00:23:16,636 use them that they are talking about it in the announcement keynote, 513 00:23:16,636 --> 00:23:23,079 I feel like there's a ~ weird sense of trust that is developed in the background. 514 00:23:23,079 --> 00:23:26,020 You're like, this person is leading the company and this person 515 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:29,031 is introducing this product and this person knows how I'm gonna use the product. 516 00:23:29,321 --> 00:23:31,523 and is literally showing me what I'm gonna do with this product. 517 00:23:31,523 --> 00:23:33,605 Okay, and they're leading the company, 518 00:23:33,605 --> 00:23:34,706 which means like the next few years, 519 00:23:34,706 --> 00:23:38,489 the next thing they ask, I feel like there's some kind of maybe even subconscious 520 00:23:38,489 --> 00:23:40,390 thread that goes along with that. 521 00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:43,187 ~ So maybe that? I don't know. 522 00:23:42,582 --> 00:23:43,582 I just think that 523 00:23:43,272 --> 00:23:46,472 is an arbitrary requirement that you're good at talking publicly. 524 00:23:46,472 --> 00:23:50,524 I agree with the other parts. I actually think I would push back. 525 00:23:46,847 --> 00:23:47,847 for sure. 526 00:23:50,524 --> 00:23:53,385 Tim Cook may not be someone who was like a product designer. 527 00:23:53,385 --> 00:23:56,746 I don't know that there was anyone at Apple who cared more about 528 00:23:56,746 --> 00:23:58,637 the experience that people had with products. 529 00:23:58,637 --> 00:24:01,608 I don't know that he knew how to articulate that necessarily. 530 00:23:59,413 --> 00:24:02,664 True. Right, that's fair. Right. 531 00:24:01,608 --> 00:24:05,239 I don't know. But I think he like watching that Wall Street Journal with 532 00:24:05,239 --> 00:24:08,940 I think Ben Collins like he wasn't great at talking about them. 533 00:24:09,090 --> 00:24:13,092 I think he sincerely cares that people be delighted by the products. 534 00:24:13,092 --> 00:24:17,603 And I think it's fine that he also not be really great at communicating 535 00:24:17,603 --> 00:24:20,655 it because he was smart enough to put people up that is I actually think that's 536 00:24:20,655 --> 00:24:23,676 a more important quality than talks good on camera. 537 00:24:22,197 --> 00:24:23,197 Hmm. 538 00:24:23,676 --> 00:24:25,697 And so going to be on stage all the time. 539 00:24:25,697 --> 00:24:28,568 Steve jobs did that. But again, 540 00:24:28,568 --> 00:24:32,379 Steve jobs and Steve jobs, people give him all the credit as being a product guy. 541 00:24:32,379 --> 00:24:37,542 Steve jobs is product sense was sort of a yes, 542 00:24:37,542 --> 00:24:38,542 like a feel. 543 00:24:38,954 --> 00:24:41,997 he wasn't the one who was even the original like, 544 00:24:39,123 --> 00:24:40,454 Yeah, was intuition. 545 00:24:41,997 --> 00:24:46,670 I mean, I wasn't around when they made the Apple one but like he didn't make that 546 00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:48,442 thing was did right like 547 00:24:47,389 --> 00:24:48,870 No, no, 548 00:24:48,990 --> 00:24:50,731 but he had the intuition of, and again, 549 00:24:50,731 --> 00:24:52,211 Pogue uses this example a lot, 550 00:24:52,211 --> 00:24:55,273 the iPod Mini was selling like crazy, 551 00:24:55,273 --> 00:24:58,134 the most popular iPod yet. And when Steve Jobs, 552 00:24:58,134 --> 00:24:59,695 when they introduced the Nano, 553 00:24:59,695 --> 00:25:02,636 they killed the Mini, even though it was their best-selling product. 554 00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:04,577 And everybody around him said, 555 00:25:04,577 --> 00:25:08,579 this is dumb to cancel the Mini for this product that is not proven. 556 00:25:08,579 --> 00:25:11,961 But Steve Jobs was right, and the Nano sold even more, 557 00:25:11,961 --> 00:25:12,961 the iPod Nano. 558 00:25:13,214 --> 00:25:15,055 And so I feel like that intuition, 559 00:25:15,055 --> 00:25:17,798 whatever it is, while he didn't make the product with his hands, 560 00:25:17,798 --> 00:25:20,660 he knew how people would respond to the products. 561 00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:24,703 And it feels like Turnus has that air about him. 562 00:25:24,703 --> 00:25:29,187 And obviously, Tim Cook trusted the people around him and he did 563 00:25:29,187 --> 00:25:31,569 put good people around him to make good products. 564 00:25:31,569 --> 00:25:33,130 I mean, that's why Turnus is here. 565 00:25:33,130 --> 00:25:34,932 know, like Turnus was responsible. 566 00:25:34,932 --> 00:25:36,002 That's one of the things I said in my video. 567 00:25:36,002 --> 00:25:39,385 Turnus was responsible for like the entire iPad lineup all the way up 568 00:25:39,385 --> 00:25:42,117 to like the new one and the entire AirPods lineup. 569 00:25:42,387 --> 00:25:43,768 And in recent years, the iPhone, 570 00:25:43,768 --> 00:25:45,760 like he has been leading those teams. 571 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,683 But actually, Tim Cook, I want to go to your article, 572 00:25:48,683 --> 00:25:50,675 because if you read anything, you know, 573 00:25:50,675 --> 00:25:52,766 the newsroom article with the announcement is fine, 574 00:25:52,766 --> 00:25:56,089 you know, it's interesting. The community letter from Tim, 575 00:25:56,089 --> 00:25:59,675 which we were talking about him articulating about products and like, 576 00:25:59,675 --> 00:26:03,276 I feel like this letter from Tim is one of the best things, 577 00:26:03,276 --> 00:26:05,097 the best communications he's ever given. 578 00:26:05,097 --> 00:26:07,169 And it's like, it's a shame that it's on his way out, 579 00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:08,861 because it feels like the most transparent. 580 00:26:09,225 --> 00:26:10,815 And I believe it. I believe that. 581 00:26:10,815 --> 00:26:12,376 feel like it's earnest. And in this letter, 582 00:26:12,376 --> 00:26:17,647 he talks about how every morning he reads emails from Apple users around the world. 583 00:26:17,647 --> 00:26:22,469 And he feels like he feels that he feels the connection 584 00:26:22,469 --> 00:26:27,690 to them and the importance of what they are doing and how it affects people. 585 00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:29,240 And you said it more eloquently. 586 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,781 And so I'll put your article in the show notes. 587 00:26:32,781 --> 00:26:35,012 This is the ink.com. I'll put the Apple Newsroom article. 588 00:26:35,012 --> 00:26:36,443 You talk about the farewell letter, 589 00:26:36,443 --> 00:26:38,173 but you have a line in this article. 590 00:26:39,133 --> 00:26:41,394 I just want to point out because I think it's really good and I think 591 00:26:41,394 --> 00:26:44,055 it does relate to leadership of all kinds. 592 00:26:44,055 --> 00:26:48,397 says you have to you say Jason Aitin says quote you have to admit that whatever 593 00:26:48,397 --> 00:26:51,819 system you built to protect your time could also be filtering out 594 00:26:51,819 --> 00:26:55,910 the exact signal you need. Otherwise you end up slowly disconnected from 595 00:26:55,910 --> 00:26:59,042 the business. built a career on refusing to be disconnected from 596 00:26:59,042 --> 00:27:01,193 the people sending those emails. 597 00:27:01,193 --> 00:27:06,665 And I think that's really salient point because leaders and people who have 598 00:27:07,111 --> 00:27:10,095 are very time constrained because they're the CEO or whatever, 599 00:27:10,095 --> 00:27:14,860 they will limit or eliminate some of that connection. 600 00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:17,513 Like I'm not going to read emails from just random people 601 00:27:17,513 --> 00:27:20,817 who put timcookatapple.com in the two field, 602 00:27:20,817 --> 00:27:23,951 but he didn't. So yeah, you said it more eloquently. 603 00:27:23,918 --> 00:27:24,918 Yeah, 604 00:27:24,188 --> 00:27:27,551 well, and I think we knew this is actually I'm glad he put it. 605 00:27:27,551 --> 00:27:29,112 I'm glad he wrote the letter. I agree. 606 00:27:29,112 --> 00:27:32,524 It's one of the best pieces of communication from Tim Cook. 607 00:27:32,524 --> 00:27:36,327 But I think that this is some people are better writers and talkers. 608 00:27:36,327 --> 00:27:41,160 It's fine. right. Probably some people think that I'm one of them. 609 00:27:37,033 --> 00:27:38,033 That's me. Yeah. 610 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,163 That's fine. But I think that it was an important thing. 611 00:27:42,108 --> 00:27:43,108 You 612 00:27:45,163 --> 00:27:47,004 And he has actually talked about this before. 613 00:27:47,004 --> 00:27:52,478 And this is why we see those Apple Watch commercials at the beginning of. 614 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:54,881 of a keynote or whatever, not commercials, 615 00:27:54,881 --> 00:27:57,632 films at the beginning of keynotes is because of this sort of thing. 616 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:56,700 Yeah, yeah. 617 00:27:57,632 --> 00:28:03,364 And he made a point of, of not just allowing them to show up in his inbox, 618 00:28:03,364 --> 00:28:04,775 but internalizing those things. 619 00:28:04,775 --> 00:28:10,307 And we can see that like, features and decisions and the way that Apple 620 00:28:10,307 --> 00:28:13,169 has talked about it have come from some of these emails. 621 00:28:13,169 --> 00:28:16,540 And I do think that staying closely connected to your, 622 00:28:16,540 --> 00:28:18,791 your customers is extremely important, 623 00:28:18,791 --> 00:28:20,922 especially for someone like Tim Cook. 624 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,732 who maybe doesn't have that innate sense of like, 625 00:28:23,732 --> 00:28:27,484 and I don't know that Tim Cook has less of an innate sense than Steve Jobs. 626 00:28:27,484 --> 00:28:30,196 I think Steve Jobs was just far more confident in his opinion, 627 00:28:30,196 --> 00:28:32,327 that his opinion about a thing was right. 628 00:28:30,847 --> 00:28:31,847 Sure. 629 00:28:32,327 --> 00:28:37,001 And so everyone just did it. And it turns out that most of us who like Apple agreed 630 00:28:37,001 --> 00:28:38,622 with that opinion most of the time, 631 00:28:38,622 --> 00:28:39,622 right? 632 00:28:38,942 --> 00:28:39,942 Right. 633 00:28:39,302 --> 00:28:43,242 one of the distinctions that German talks about in one of his Bloomberg articles, 634 00:28:43,242 --> 00:28:47,302 which yes, I paid $35 this month so I could read all these articles because 635 00:28:47,302 --> 00:28:48,562 I wasn't paying enough before. 636 00:28:48,562 --> 00:28:53,502 People inside Apple described Tim Cook in meetings where there was 637 00:28:53,502 --> 00:28:57,962 a decision to make or they were at an end pass on trying to decide something. 638 00:28:57,962 --> 00:29:02,162 Tim Cook would defer. He would ask the people around the table, 639 00:29:02,162 --> 00:29:05,022 what do you think about this? What should we do about this? 640 00:29:05,022 --> 00:29:06,118 And 641 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,892 the similar people would say when John Ternus is in a meeting, 642 00:29:09,892 --> 00:29:11,973 he will be much more decisive. 643 00:29:11,973 --> 00:29:14,925 And he will say, this is like, 644 00:29:14,925 --> 00:29:17,117 let's do this and go from there. 645 00:29:17,117 --> 00:29:22,230 And I guess if you, if you want to take any trait and say, 646 00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:24,201 this is closer to Steve Jobs than that, 647 00:29:24,201 --> 00:29:28,794 that probably feels like the thing that they will do the most of that makes them 648 00:29:28,794 --> 00:29:31,946 more like jobs. When Tim Cook defers to others, 649 00:29:31,946 --> 00:29:36,249 which is a good quality, like I do think collaboration and delegation. 650 00:29:36,575 --> 00:29:37,885 are great qualities of a leader. 651 00:29:37,885 --> 00:29:39,886 And when it's not your strength, 652 00:29:39,886 --> 00:29:42,997 you're a better leader if you delegate those questions than if you try 653 00:29:42,997 --> 00:29:44,927 to make the decisions yourself and you make poor decisions, 654 00:29:44,927 --> 00:29:46,128 you know, if you don't have that. 655 00:29:46,128 --> 00:29:50,049 So he was probably correct in asking the room. 656 00:29:50,049 --> 00:29:54,010 He put great people around him and they made the decisions. 657 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:56,831 But we're getting a new CEO, John Ternus, 658 00:29:56,831 --> 00:29:59,451 who has been at Apple for 25 years, 659 00:29:59,451 --> 00:30:04,103 has literally built and led the teams that built the iconic products that 660 00:30:04,103 --> 00:30:05,103 are there today. 661 00:30:05,537 --> 00:30:07,097 of all the things that people say, 662 00:30:07,097 --> 00:30:09,757 like, the software is one thing about the Apple devices today, 663 00:30:09,757 --> 00:30:11,277 and you could say what you want about iOS 26, 664 00:30:11,277 --> 00:30:15,737 a liquid glass, or whatever, but the hardware is always universally agreed 665 00:30:15,737 --> 00:30:18,937 to be the best. The new M5, 666 00:30:18,937 --> 00:30:21,977 the new MacBook Pros, the iPhone 17 Pro, 667 00:30:21,977 --> 00:30:26,637 everything is incredible. And that was Ternus. 668 00:30:26,637 --> 00:30:29,817 That's been Ternus for the last however many years. 669 00:30:29,817 --> 00:30:31,685 He's led the hardware teams for that. 670 00:30:32,201 --> 00:30:36,094 And so having someone that is closer to the Steve Jobs CEO who will 671 00:30:36,094 --> 00:30:38,226 be decisive and here's the thing, 672 00:30:38,226 --> 00:30:41,989 sometimes you make a wrong decision and we're gonna get in a minute about what 673 00:30:41,989 --> 00:30:43,871 Tim Cook has said his failures have been. 674 00:30:43,871 --> 00:30:48,855 When you are that decisive, you do run the risk of making a mistake 675 00:30:49,395 --> 00:30:52,918 and something happening like the iPhone 4 antenna gate or whatever. 676 00:30:52,918 --> 00:30:56,821 And you might have to backtrack like what Steve Jobs gave out free bumpers 677 00:30:56,821 --> 00:30:59,664 or whatever. But I do think that kind of 678 00:31:00,155 --> 00:31:05,388 decisiveness and forward motion lends itself 679 00:31:05,388 --> 00:31:11,182 to more innovation than not. And so that is why guess I'm hopeful that John Turner 680 00:31:11,182 --> 00:31:13,354 is now being the CEO for however many years. 681 00:31:13,354 --> 00:31:17,607 Some things might break or not might not be great, 682 00:31:17,607 --> 00:31:20,565 but I think we'll see more innovation because there's going to be 683 00:31:20,565 --> 00:31:22,440 a decisiveness to say, yes, let's do that. 684 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,191 Like, let's do the folding iPhone. 685 00:31:24,191 --> 00:31:25,422 Who knows if anybody wants this, 686 00:31:25,422 --> 00:31:28,003 but let's do it. Let's do the AR glasses. 687 00:31:28,003 --> 00:31:29,003 Let's push it. 688 00:31:29,276 --> 00:31:31,196 And you know, let's get it out there and let's see. 689 00:31:31,196 --> 00:31:34,756 I feel like Steve Jobs was a bit like Steve Jobs kind of had the confidence 690 00:31:34,756 --> 00:31:36,456 to say like, we're going to put this out there because I know 691 00:31:36,456 --> 00:31:39,316 the customers were wanted. I don't know if John Turnis is that confident. 692 00:31:39,316 --> 00:31:42,076 You know, I don't know if he has that kind of Steve Jobs in like, 693 00:31:42,076 --> 00:31:44,816 I know people like we tell what people what they want. 694 00:31:44,816 --> 00:31:47,656 You know, that's literally what Steve Jobs would say that we want. 695 00:31:47,656 --> 00:31:48,696 You know, we tell them what they want. 696 00:31:48,696 --> 00:31:49,696 You have to show them what they want. 697 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:50,936 And maybe Turnis has that too. 698 00:31:50,936 --> 00:31:53,996 But that is one of the reasons why I'm optimistic about the innovation 699 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:57,596 at Apple going forward. I think Turnis will bring that with the decisiveness, 700 00:31:57,596 --> 00:31:58,596 with the direction. 701 00:31:58,276 --> 00:31:59,897 Yeah, I just hope they don't become Samsung. 702 00:31:59,897 --> 00:32:01,657 Right? Like you just described. 703 00:32:00,730 --> 00:32:01,820 No, they wouldn't know. 704 00:32:01,657 --> 00:32:04,218 Well, you just described. Let's just put the stuff out there. 705 00:32:04,218 --> 00:32:08,060 I actually think that Apple's biggest strength has been that they are very, 706 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:10,481 very conservative about what they're willing to put out there. 707 00:32:10,383 --> 00:32:11,383 Yes, yes. 708 00:32:10,481 --> 00:32:12,682 Sometimes maybe to their detriment, 709 00:32:12,682 --> 00:32:15,523 sometimes maybe but like they put the vision pro out there. 710 00:32:15,523 --> 00:32:17,503 Not exactly a resounding success. 711 00:32:17,503 --> 00:32:21,865 Incredible piece of hardware. Incredible software. 712 00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:20,874 Right. Right, yeah, exactly, yeah. 713 00:32:20,874 --> 00:32:22,217 Right. 714 00:32:21,865 --> 00:32:24,716 Not a thing that anyone cares about except for me. 715 00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:26,167 I still use it every day but 716 00:32:26,847 --> 00:32:28,608 I just think that like, don't know. 717 00:32:28,608 --> 00:32:32,329 I think Steve Jobs, when he says we told people what they want, 718 00:32:32,329 --> 00:32:36,500 he doesn't mean you will like this because we told you to what he means 719 00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:37,990 is he could see around the corner. 720 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:42,131 He knew how people would experience something and how they would feel about 721 00:32:38,402 --> 00:32:39,402 right. 722 00:32:42,131 --> 00:32:45,632 it before they did because it was new to them and they didn't have it. 723 00:32:45,632 --> 00:32:48,913 So when he says he would tell people what they should think or what they should 724 00:32:48,913 --> 00:32:52,735 like, what he just means is like he could see it before people 725 00:32:52,735 --> 00:32:54,235 who had never experienced it could. 726 00:32:54,855 --> 00:32:57,237 And so they moved in that direction and they told people they didn't just 727 00:32:57,237 --> 00:32:59,598 ask you because what he knew is that if you just ask people what they want, 728 00:32:59,598 --> 00:33:02,780 it's what if the Henry Ford we just want faster horses like right? 729 00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:04,191 We we don't want the automobile. 730 00:33:04,191 --> 00:33:05,502 We just want faster horses. I guess. 731 00:33:05,502 --> 00:33:07,023 But you've never seen an automobile. 732 00:33:07,023 --> 00:33:10,275 promise you it's better. Like you have to just trust us on it. 733 00:33:10,275 --> 00:33:12,887 So I don't know. First of all, 734 00:33:12,887 --> 00:33:14,561 I'm being contrarian to some extent. 735 00:33:14,561 --> 00:33:15,839 think Turner's will be a great CEO. 736 00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:17,210 I think he was the obvious choice. 737 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:20,623 I think that that's great. I think expectations are way too high on 738 00:33:20,623 --> 00:33:24,125 him and people are pinning all of the things that they thought were 739 00:33:21,113 --> 00:33:22,113 Hmm. 740 00:33:24,649 --> 00:33:29,501 Deficits of Tim Cook as hopes on John Ternus and I don't think that that's fair 741 00:33:29,621 --> 00:33:34,963 and I think it sets him up for a real bad situation Because John Ternus 742 00:33:29,783 --> 00:33:30,783 That's fair, yeah. 743 00:33:34,963 --> 00:33:37,254 has worked with Tim Cook for 15 years. 744 00:33:37,254 --> 00:33:41,246 He calls him his mentor I don't think we're gonna see a dramatically different, 745 00:33:39,213 --> 00:33:40,213 Reverend. 746 00:33:41,246 --> 00:33:45,198 you know, and John Ternus was not a product designer He's a hardware engineer. 747 00:33:41,964 --> 00:33:42,964 No. 748 00:33:45,198 --> 00:33:47,078 He was the guy who figured out huh? 749 00:33:47,078 --> 00:33:50,110 The MacBook Air is gonna be this then how does it all work together? 750 00:33:50,110 --> 00:33:53,131 What where do we source the stuff from he wasn't the 751 00:33:53,131 --> 00:33:55,571 I mean and also like he was the butterfly keyboard guy 752 00:33:55,873 --> 00:33:56,873 That's a point. 753 00:33:57,289 --> 00:33:58,289 And he was the one 754 00:33:57,990 --> 00:34:00,933 who thought the MacBook Pro should only have USB-C ports. 755 00:34:00,933 --> 00:34:04,737 I'm pretty sure he was the one that engineered that, 756 00:34:01,393 --> 00:34:02,393 Was that him or Johnny Ive? 757 00:34:04,707 --> 00:34:05,707 But yeah, 758 00:34:05,077 --> 00:34:07,696 but Johnny Ive was still there calling a lot of shots. 759 00:34:07,696 --> 00:34:10,900 So that's my point is like that those are product design decisions. 760 00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:11,900 So 761 00:34:11,151 --> 00:34:14,491 Right. I'm not like, obviously, 762 00:34:14,491 --> 00:34:17,091 Ternus is Apple DNA through and through. 763 00:34:17,091 --> 00:34:20,891 He's been there for 25 years. of like Tim Cook for 15 years. 764 00:34:20,891 --> 00:34:24,391 I don't think he's going to be a radical change, 765 00:34:24,391 --> 00:34:28,011 to be clear. But I think the needle will move. 766 00:34:28,011 --> 00:34:29,311 I don't know how much it will move, 767 00:34:29,311 --> 00:34:33,631 but I think it will move slightly away from hyper conservative, 768 00:34:33,631 --> 00:34:36,771 maybe, to like release innovation, 769 00:34:36,771 --> 00:34:39,731 like artificial intelligence, I think is the clear example. 770 00:34:39,731 --> 00:34:40,931 Apple has been 771 00:34:41,151 --> 00:34:44,612 way on the conservative side and now have fallen behind because of it. 772 00:34:44,612 --> 00:34:47,774 Maybe, and this is just an assumption, 773 00:34:47,774 --> 00:34:49,955 but maybe with someone like Ternus at the helm, 774 00:34:49,955 --> 00:34:55,167 they will move slightly faster in these new areas and might make 775 00:34:55,167 --> 00:34:57,638 for more innovation going forward. 776 00:34:57,638 --> 00:35:00,579 It's a hope. I'm not saying, listen, 777 00:35:00,579 --> 00:35:04,000 their product roadmap, like Tim Cook literally said in that town hall, 778 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,061 our product roadmap has to be incredible. 779 00:35:06,061 --> 00:35:09,213 So it makes it clear the roadmap is set for at least some time. 780 00:35:09,213 --> 00:35:10,213 You know what I mean? 781 00:35:10,497 --> 00:35:14,098 We probably won't know the effect Ternus has had on the products for 782 00:35:14,098 --> 00:35:16,867 two to three years. listen, iPhone 18, 783 00:35:16,867 --> 00:35:18,540 that's in the can. Like, that's done. 784 00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:21,268 Well, but it's also Ternus. He just wasn't CEO. 785 00:35:20,633 --> 00:35:22,033 It is a still tiller. Right, right, 786 00:35:21,268 --> 00:35:24,367 That's what I'm saying. All the products they're going to set out in 787 00:35:22,033 --> 00:35:23,161 right, right, right, right. And it just turned us. 788 00:35:24,367 --> 00:35:26,644 the next couple years, that was all Ternus anyway. 789 00:35:26,644 --> 00:35:29,005 Right, but things like the AI, 790 00:35:29,005 --> 00:35:31,997 like I think about the interview that Joanna Stern did with Craig Joswek 791 00:35:31,997 --> 00:35:36,429 and Craig Ferrigi, like I'm sure the two of them and Tim Cook talk a 792 00:35:36,429 --> 00:35:37,770 lot about AI and they were like, 793 00:35:37,770 --> 00:35:43,023 no one wants a chat app. And now all the rumors are that the next voice assistant 794 00:35:43,023 --> 00:35:45,374 on the iPhone, Kamaios 27, will be a chat app. 795 00:35:45,374 --> 00:35:50,457 And so something is happening there where they are shifting to maybe just accepting 796 00:35:50,457 --> 00:35:51,838 the world and what people actually want, 797 00:35:51,838 --> 00:35:55,239 but I'm hopeful that Ternus has more of that bent. 798 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,330 Not that it's a- 799 00:35:56,632 --> 00:36:00,392 180 turn but just a slight bent toward like all right, 800 00:36:00,392 --> 00:36:01,832 let's move a little faster, you know, 801 00:36:01,832 --> 00:36:06,552 and he's young he's 51 He's the age Tim Cook was when Tim Cook became CEO and so, 802 00:36:06,552 --> 00:36:08,540 you know, we have another 10 10 15 years 803 00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:10,060 Yeah, again, I think it was the right decision. 804 00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:13,752 I am optimistic. I just want us to be careful that we don't put all of 805 00:36:13,752 --> 00:36:17,611 our hopes on John Ternus because because first of all, 806 00:36:14,806 --> 00:36:16,809 Hopes and dreams. No, no, no. 807 00:36:17,611 --> 00:36:19,863 I mean, you shouldn't put your hopes and dreams and Steve Jobs either. 808 00:36:19,863 --> 00:36:21,824 But John Ternus is still not Steve Jobs. 809 00:36:21,824 --> 00:36:27,886 Right. And John Ternus is coming out of the Steve Jobs era and 810 00:36:27,886 --> 00:36:32,187 the Tim Cook era. And he will define the era that comes after very differently. 811 00:36:32,187 --> 00:36:35,918 I think he set up for success much better than like Bob Chapek was it. 812 00:36:32,289 --> 00:36:33,289 Hmm. 813 00:36:36,146 --> 00:36:39,828 Disney, right, which we're gonna talk about Tim Cook sticking around a little bit. 814 00:36:39,828 --> 00:36:42,960 But I but I think, like, I don't think we're gonna have that kind of a situation. 815 00:36:40,359 --> 00:36:41,359 Yes. 816 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,421 I think he's in a better situation than than that. 817 00:36:45,421 --> 00:36:49,584 And I think it's because Tim Cook's main priority, 818 00:36:49,584 --> 00:36:51,345 I think john gruber said it really well, 819 00:36:51,345 --> 00:36:53,206 Tim Cook's main priority was just Apple, 820 00:36:53,206 --> 00:36:58,479 like, just you know, if Tim, if Steve Jobs is greatest product was Apple, 821 00:36:53,824 --> 00:36:54,824 Right, right. 822 00:36:58,479 --> 00:37:04,132 the company, Tim Cook did the best job anyone could have done of just letting that 823 00:37:04,424 --> 00:37:08,598 flourish, right? And we'll see maybe the products within Apple will flourish more 824 00:37:05,847 --> 00:37:06,847 Yeah. 825 00:37:08,598 --> 00:37:11,261 under John Ternus. And I think that that's good to have somebody who 826 00:37:11,261 --> 00:37:13,643 has that kind of a sense. But people are like, 827 00:37:13,643 --> 00:37:15,996 well, they're gonna bring back in person keynotes now because John Ternus 828 00:37:15,996 --> 00:37:19,892 is I'm like, I don't know that that makes the thing. 829 00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:18,974 Well, I don't know. I don't know. 830 00:37:19,892 --> 00:37:20,892 Yeah. 831 00:37:20,140 --> 00:37:22,580 But interestingly, when the MacBook Neo, 832 00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:24,240 there was an event in New York, 833 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:27,120 and there was one person on stage doing stuff live, 834 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,880 and it was John Ternus talking about the MacBook Neo. 835 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,520 And there's some interesting photos. 836 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,440 After that event in the press area, 837 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,000 people who were there, there's like pictures of John Ternus by himself standing 838 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,520 by the MacBook Neo, and John Gruber pointed out like, 839 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,420 that's the last time that will ever happen. 840 00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:43,200 Because now whenever John Ternus is in room, 841 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,200 there's gonna be a swarm of people. 842 00:37:44,569 --> 00:37:48,321 And I think the one word I feel like to describe Tim Cook's era, 843 00:37:48,321 --> 00:37:52,983 he was the best steward Apple could have hoped for. 844 00:37:52,983 --> 00:37:56,120 He stewarded the company, made it what it was today. 845 00:37:52,983 --> 00:37:53,983 Absolutely. 846 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,052 And I think John Ternus will continue to steward it and, 847 00:38:00,052 --> 00:38:02,813 and something. I think there will be something else there. 848 00:38:01,798 --> 00:38:02,859 Yeah. Well, 849 00:38:02,859 --> 00:38:06,092 the reason that's such a good word is Stuart means to manage something that belongs 850 00:38:06,092 --> 00:38:08,895 to someone else. No, really, that's what it means. 851 00:38:07,063 --> 00:38:08,774 That's fair. That is fair. 852 00:38:08,895 --> 00:38:14,840 And Tim Cook, in two ways did that he managed something that in his mind, 853 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,505 I think still belonged to Steve Jobs and belong to shareholders. 854 00:38:17,973 --> 00:38:20,990 Yeah. Right, right, 855 00:38:19,505 --> 00:38:21,967 No, like for real, like I mean that sincerely, 856 00:38:20,990 --> 00:38:22,887 right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 857 00:38:21,967 --> 00:38:24,209 I think Tim Cook was the single best at that. 858 00:38:24,209 --> 00:38:26,972 And john Stuart, I think john Stuart. 859 00:38:26,972 --> 00:38:27,972 John Ternus. 860 00:38:27,735 --> 00:38:28,735 John Turnis 861 00:38:28,286 --> 00:38:32,660 is a steward. think what he will do is continue to steward the company 862 00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:34,582 in a very different way in some ways. 863 00:38:34,055 --> 00:38:35,055 Yeah, yeah. 864 00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:37,916 Like he's going to be managing something that is much bigger than him. 865 00:38:37,916 --> 00:38:40,859 Right. He came up in a very different way at Apple. 866 00:38:38,364 --> 00:38:39,364 Right, right. 867 00:38:40,859 --> 00:38:42,621 And I think it'll be, I think, 868 00:38:42,621 --> 00:38:46,184 but I don't think like no one should expect Apple to have the same kind 869 00:38:46,184 --> 00:38:50,349 of exponential growth over the next 15 years than it did today. 870 00:38:50,349 --> 00:38:53,291 Well, I don't think that would even be possible just from a practical, 871 00:38:53,151 --> 00:38:54,151 Just from math. 872 00:38:53,291 --> 00:38:59,086 from math, the amount of people in the world and the products that actually 873 00:38:59,086 --> 00:39:00,817 are ubiquitous, namely the phone. 874 00:38:59,869 --> 00:39:02,806 I mean, AI is taking all of our jobs and we're all going to have universal basic 875 00:39:00,817 --> 00:39:05,461 I don't know. 876 00:39:02,806 --> 00:39:03,988 income anyway, so it doesn't matter. 877 00:39:05,461 --> 00:39:07,963 Well, on that note, I do want to talk about Tim Cook, 878 00:39:07,963 --> 00:39:11,966 ~ what he's staying on to do, the failures that he admitted to, 879 00:39:11,966 --> 00:39:13,947 and Johnny Saruji's being around. 880 00:39:13,947 --> 00:39:15,188 I'm glad he's sticking around. 881 00:39:15,188 --> 00:39:16,890 I'm glad they elevated him to do that. 882 00:39:16,890 --> 00:39:19,882 Well, before we do, let's take a break and let's thank our friends at 883 00:39:20,152 --> 00:39:23,052 Framer. So here's the thing, if you're make a website for your business, 884 00:39:23,052 --> 00:39:25,252 for your company, I've used a lot of platforms for making websites. 885 00:39:25,252 --> 00:39:26,352 There's some good ones out there, 886 00:39:26,352 --> 00:39:28,852 but Framer is an incredible tool. 887 00:39:28,852 --> 00:39:31,432 Your marketing website, it sets the tone for your brand. 888 00:39:31,432 --> 00:39:34,232 Your website is likely the front door so many people come in when 889 00:39:34,232 --> 00:39:35,912 the first experience they have of your brand, 890 00:39:35,912 --> 00:39:40,292 and it's the one touch point. And if you still struggle to make small changes 891 00:39:40,292 --> 00:39:43,692 and simple updates, which if you maybe have your own CMS or whatever, 892 00:39:43,692 --> 00:39:45,852 if your team complains about it, 893 00:39:45,852 --> 00:39:46,876 you probably have heard about it. 894 00:39:47,106 --> 00:39:48,687 You're leaving opportunity on the table. 895 00:39:48,687 --> 00:39:52,440 That's why so many companies from early stage startups to Fortune 500s 896 00:39:52,660 --> 00:39:56,933 are turning to Framer. It's the website builder that turns your .com from 897 00:39:56,933 --> 00:39:59,345 a formality into a tool for growth. 898 00:39:59,345 --> 00:40:02,647 Framer, so it's a builder that works like your team's favorite design tool with 899 00:40:02,647 --> 00:40:04,809 real-time collaboration. Super cool. 900 00:40:04,809 --> 00:40:07,471 Not a thing that's been in past website platforms. 901 00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:11,604 A robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that 902 00:40:11,604 --> 00:40:13,325 include integrated A-B testing. 903 00:40:13,325 --> 00:40:14,806 You can A-B test your homepage. 904 00:40:15,296 --> 00:40:17,788 landing page. What page actually gets more clicks or people 905 00:40:17,788 --> 00:40:21,131 to actually follow through. Changes to your Framer site go live to 906 00:40:21,131 --> 00:40:24,584 the web in seconds with one click published without help from engineering 907 00:40:24,725 --> 00:40:28,468 and you can help your team reduce dependencies and reach escape velocity. 908 00:40:28,468 --> 00:40:31,430 And Framer is an enterprise solution with premium hosting, 909 00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:36,265 enterprise-grade security, and 99.99 % uptime SLAs that gives 910 00:40:36,265 --> 00:40:38,486 the world's leading brands like Perplexity, 911 00:40:38,486 --> 00:40:42,160 Miro, and Mixpanel the confidence they need to build their websites in Framer. 912 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,160 So 913 00:40:42,624 --> 00:40:45,806 Learn how you can get more out of your dot-com from a framer specialist 914 00:40:45,966 --> 00:40:51,364 or get started building for free today at framer.com slash primary for 30 915 00:40:51,364 --> 00:40:54,052 % off a framer pro annual plan. 916 00:40:54,052 --> 00:40:57,535 That's framer.com slash primary for 30 % off. 917 00:40:57,535 --> 00:41:01,958 framer.com slash primary rules and restrictions may apply. 918 00:41:01,958 --> 00:41:06,701 Our thanks to framer for sponsoring this episode and our friends at granola. 919 00:41:06,701 --> 00:41:09,933 There are so many tools to try to record or transcribe your meeting, 920 00:41:09,933 --> 00:41:10,933 but a lot of times they're 921 00:41:10,955 --> 00:41:13,216 locked into the application that you're using, 922 00:41:13,216 --> 00:41:15,688 whether it's Zoom or Google Meet or Riverside, 923 00:41:15,688 --> 00:41:19,049 well, Granola is a tool that can kind of get behind all that. 924 00:41:19,049 --> 00:41:20,811 It runs on your Mac as an app, 925 00:41:20,811 --> 00:41:24,212 and it's just going to take your audio and do all the fun AI stuff. 926 00:41:24,212 --> 00:41:27,634 It's an AI-powered notepad built for the way people actually meet. 927 00:41:27,634 --> 00:41:29,716 So you take rough notes like you normally would, 928 00:41:29,716 --> 00:41:33,057 and in the background, Granola securely transcribes the meeting, 929 00:41:33,057 --> 00:41:34,568 turns everything into a clean, 930 00:41:34,568 --> 00:41:37,380 structured, actually useful notes when the meeting ends. 931 00:41:37,602 --> 00:41:39,993 And best part granola works through your devices audio, 932 00:41:39,993 --> 00:41:43,225 which means it integrates seamlessly into the video conferencing tools 933 00:41:43,225 --> 00:41:46,357 you already use. No setup, no awkward bots. 934 00:41:46,357 --> 00:41:48,898 It's just your normal meeting with superpowers. 935 00:41:48,898 --> 00:41:52,120 You get to actually listen instead of frantically typing every word 936 00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:54,462 and still walk away knowing exactly what was decided. 937 00:41:54,462 --> 00:41:56,923 As I'm trying to get more into just recording stuff, 938 00:41:56,923 --> 00:41:58,604 transcribing and using that as notes, 939 00:41:58,604 --> 00:42:00,705 using even just my own voice to do stuff. 940 00:42:00,705 --> 00:42:02,776 And if you want one, a great tool for it, 941 00:42:02,776 --> 00:42:05,568 granola is it. So if meetings are eating up your day, 942 00:42:06,284 --> 00:42:10,267 Granola is a no-brainer. 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Now we're to talk about Claude more later, 951 00:42:40,848 --> 00:42:43,968 but Claude is the AI if you want to get things done. 952 00:42:43,968 --> 00:42:47,488 And if you're Claude code, if you're a developer spending half your day on tasks, 953 00:42:47,488 --> 00:42:48,583 you could just hand that off. 954 00:42:48,583 --> 00:42:50,214 With Claude Cowork you can point it on a 955 00:42:50,430 --> 00:42:53,522 folder on your computer, add connectors like Google Drive and Gmail, 956 00:42:53,522 --> 00:42:55,084 Circle, which runs my community membership, 957 00:42:55,084 --> 00:42:57,546 actually just added its own first party MCP. 958 00:42:57,546 --> 00:43:01,119 So now I can use Claude Cowork to either post things to Circle or 959 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:03,390 ask things about my community analytics. 960 00:43:03,390 --> 00:43:05,722 Claude Cowork is super powerful and it's easy to use. 961 00:43:05,722 --> 00:43:06,993 You can connect your Apple Notes. 962 00:43:06,993 --> 00:43:09,756 You can even have Claude in your browser, 963 00:43:09,756 --> 00:43:12,918 your browser of choice. 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Thanks to Claude for sponsoring this episode. 978 00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:56,062 All I want to talk about your second article, 979 00:43:56,062 --> 00:44:00,584 which Tim Cook, he's moving into the chairman of the board at Apple. 980 00:44:00,584 --> 00:44:01,854 So he's still going to be around. 981 00:44:01,854 --> 00:44:03,725 He's still going to be doing things. 982 00:44:03,725 --> 00:44:07,766 And mostly this line, Cook will assist with certain aspects of the company, 983 00:44:07,766 --> 00:44:11,527 including engaging with policymakers around the world. 984 00:44:11,527 --> 00:44:14,718 And this was one of the reasons why a lot of journalists and people 985 00:44:14,718 --> 00:44:15,718 in the tech space, we were like, 986 00:44:15,698 --> 00:44:19,329 maybe Tim Cook's not going to leave until the administration changes because 987 00:44:19,329 --> 00:44:23,030 Tim Cook has been, you know, heavily involved with doing things. 988 00:44:23,579 --> 00:44:26,674 and kind of smoothing things over with tariffs or whatever so maybe 989 00:44:26,674 --> 00:44:31,201 he won't leave well. Now he can continue to do those same things but doesn't have 990 00:44:31,201 --> 00:44:32,674 to be CEO. He can do that as chairman of the 991 00:44:33,326 --> 00:44:36,408 Yeah, I think Neelay Patel said it best on the first cast where 992 00:44:36,408 --> 00:44:40,140 he talked about like, you just can't introduce the current president to a new guy. 993 00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:43,833 You just he's not going to learn a new guy at this point. 994 00:44:41,766 --> 00:44:42,766 That's the thing. 995 00:44:43,833 --> 00:44:45,674 He just it's going to have to still be Tim. 996 00:44:45,674 --> 00:44:50,276 And I do think like it is his most important job. 997 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,205 It's just gotta be Tim. 998 00:44:50,276 --> 00:44:53,258 I don't know that he wants to do this, 999 00:44:53,258 --> 00:44:58,802 but I think what it does is set up John Ternus for the best amount of success. 1000 00:44:59,542 --> 00:45:02,723 I imagine that Tim Cook is going to show up at board meetings and then 1001 00:45:02,723 --> 00:45:06,134 go talk to policy people. And I don't think you'll see him a ton 1002 00:45:06,134 --> 00:45:11,035 at Cooper in Cupertino for a while to give John Ternus as much runway as 1003 00:45:11,035 --> 00:45:14,586 he can in as much opportunity to put his own impression on it. 1004 00:45:14,586 --> 00:45:19,918 And then when it's kind of like it's it's kind of like when this 1005 00:45:19,918 --> 00:45:25,989 is a terrible analogy. But it's like after was it Hurricane Katrina when George W. 1006 00:45:25,989 --> 00:45:28,330 Bush sent ~ 1007 00:45:28,794 --> 00:45:31,406 Bill Clinton and George HW Bush, 1008 00:45:31,406 --> 00:45:34,198 I think it was to go like raise money for him or something like that. 1009 00:45:32,062 --> 00:45:34,786 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 1010 00:45:34,198 --> 00:45:36,740 It's like, you're gonna call in the other statesman and be like, 1011 00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:40,603 Tim, ~ I keep getting calls from the White House. 1012 00:45:40,603 --> 00:45:42,325 I haven't been answering them. 1013 00:45:42,325 --> 00:45:46,308 Do you think you could get on a plane right now and go to Washington DC? 1014 00:45:42,590 --> 00:45:43,590 Can you? 1015 00:45:46,308 --> 00:45:48,952 Why are you still here? Could you please go to Washington DC? 1016 00:45:47,304 --> 00:45:48,304 Just go over there. 1017 00:45:48,952 --> 00:45:52,384 And so, I mean, I think it's great for Ternus that Tim Cook will 1018 00:45:52,384 --> 00:45:54,396 be around still handling those things. 1019 00:45:54,396 --> 00:45:57,799 And just in the general running of Apple, 1020 00:45:57,799 --> 00:46:02,603 like this is again, a difference between Tim Cook taking over CEO and Ternus. 1021 00:46:02,603 --> 00:46:06,446 Tim Cook could not go to Steve Jobs and ask him a question. 1022 00:46:06,446 --> 00:46:08,788 Like, what should I do in this situation? 1023 00:46:08,788 --> 00:46:15,303 Or, where did you hide my Vision Pro inserts? 1024 00:46:09,056 --> 00:46:11,686 Where is the toilet paper in the executive bathroom? 1025 00:46:15,303 --> 00:46:16,414 Because I can't find. 1026 00:46:16,993 --> 00:46:19,468 Why are there just boxes of Vision Pro in this office? 1027 00:46:19,468 --> 00:46:21,622 Like, why are there thousands of them? 1028 00:46:20,527 --> 00:46:22,718 Exactly. I thought we sold a couple million. 1029 00:46:21,622 --> 00:46:25,440 Why are they all in your old office? 1030 00:46:22,718 --> 00:46:25,559 Why are they? That's 1031 00:46:25,559 --> 00:46:31,590 right. So that is an advantage that John Turnus has is that if 1032 00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:36,211 he has a question or needs help with the supply chain or whatever, 1033 00:46:36,211 --> 00:46:40,292 like Tim Cook is literally here going to be the chairman of the board probably 1034 00:46:40,292 --> 00:46:44,123 for years, like Turnus has that resource. 1035 00:46:44,123 --> 00:46:46,124 And that's something to Tim Cook's credit. 1036 00:46:46,508 --> 00:46:50,621 He didn't have that opportunity to be able to ask Steve Jobs and 1037 00:46:50,621 --> 00:46:52,883 yet was as successful as he was. 1038 00:46:52,883 --> 00:46:57,446 So that speaks to think Tim Cook's ~ just being a great CEO, 1039 00:46:57,446 --> 00:47:02,210 but also optimistic for the next phase because he's around and gets to 1040 00:47:02,058 --> 00:47:03,426 Yeah, 1041 00:47:02,210 --> 00:47:03,210 do some of the dirty 1042 00:47:03,426 --> 00:47:04,873 less than five years, that's my guess. 1043 00:47:04,873 --> 00:47:06,344 Less than five years as chairman of the board. 1044 00:47:06,344 --> 00:47:08,053 Yeah, why would he be around longer than that? 1045 00:47:08,053 --> 00:47:09,299 The guy wants to retire. 1046 00:47:08,388 --> 00:47:09,388 If he just, 1047 00:47:09,788 --> 00:47:11,008 if he wants to be, I don't know. 1048 00:47:11,008 --> 00:47:12,228 guess it's up to him, right? 1049 00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:12,820 I 1050 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,140 bet I bet. I mean, I bet it's less than five years. 1051 00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:20,140 I don't think that this is a permanent decision of like, 1052 00:47:15,361 --> 00:47:16,361 Okay. 1053 00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:21,920 we should just do this for a long time. 1054 00:47:20,322 --> 00:47:22,344 Right. Right, right. 1055 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,080 I think eventually he'll go spend money or get involved 1056 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,620 in philanthropy or something. I don't know, 1057 00:47:28,217 --> 00:47:29,217 That's true. 1058 00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:32,820 like, but I just don't think I you can mark it down five years from now. 1059 00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:34,280 My guess is that it'll be 1060 00:47:32,854 --> 00:47:33,854 Okay. 1061 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:35,705 Maybe he'll be in Nike commercials. 1062 00:47:35,705 --> 00:47:38,837 You know, he loves Nike. You know what mean? 1063 00:47:37,705 --> 00:47:39,068 Maybe, maybe 1064 00:47:39,068 --> 00:47:41,673 him and Jeff Williams are gonna go start like an athletic, 1065 00:47:41,673 --> 00:47:45,381 ~ you know, wear clothing brand. 1066 00:47:42,317 --> 00:47:45,042 ~ Isn't 1067 00:47:45,623 --> 00:47:47,346 Tim Cook on the board of directors at Nike too? 1068 00:47:48,573 --> 00:47:49,573 I don't know, but I 1069 00:47:49,114 --> 00:47:51,637 think Jeff Williams is on the board of director of somewhere, 1070 00:47:51,637 --> 00:47:53,941 right? Didn't he just join a board? 1071 00:47:52,589 --> 00:47:54,089 ~ 1072 00:47:54,954 --> 00:47:58,795 maybe yeah he's served on the board since like 2005 1073 00:47:59,907 --> 00:48:00,907 ~ Anyway. 1074 00:48:00,162 --> 00:48:02,727 Disney, Disney, Jeff Williams just joined the board at Disney, 1075 00:48:02,727 --> 00:48:03,727 that's right. 1076 00:48:03,011 --> 00:48:04,011 See, 1077 00:48:03,651 --> 00:48:04,971 these guys are gonna be around. 1078 00:48:04,971 --> 00:48:06,771 They're gonna be around. But also, 1079 00:48:06,771 --> 00:48:08,611 so the last thing about Tim Cook, 1080 00:48:08,611 --> 00:48:11,211 and it'll cover Suruji and some other lightning round news. 1081 00:48:11,211 --> 00:48:15,691 In the town hall that Tim Cook did at Apple, 1082 00:48:15,691 --> 00:48:19,771 and I'm gonna show this article because I paid $35 just so could read it. 1083 00:48:19,771 --> 00:48:21,571 I literally paying. 1084 00:48:20,341 --> 00:48:21,645 So if you want to 1085 00:48:21,645 --> 00:48:25,989 join our membership program, ~ join the primaritech.fm slash join, 1086 00:48:25,989 --> 00:48:27,983 is that right? Okay. 1087 00:48:27,503 --> 00:48:28,503 Join.primarytech.fm. 1088 00:48:27,943 --> 00:48:30,903 Just click bonus episodes and ad free and you can support the show right there. 1089 00:48:30,613 --> 00:48:31,613 That'd be great. 1090 00:48:30,903 --> 00:48:33,803 So Tim Cook, this is in the town hall, 1091 00:48:33,803 --> 00:48:36,643 he talked about some of the failures during his tenure. 1092 00:48:36,643 --> 00:48:40,843 One, not a failure, but he fondly remembers the Apple Watch as probably like 1093 00:48:40,843 --> 00:48:42,322 his high point. know, he did get, 1094 00:48:42,322 --> 00:48:44,283 that was a main product he got to introduce. 1095 00:48:44,283 --> 00:48:46,923 The Apple Watch in 2014, which was the introduction, 1096 00:48:46,923 --> 00:48:48,923 and then it went for sale in 2015. 1097 00:48:48,923 --> 00:48:51,563 But Tim Cook was on stage, he got to do that announcement. 1098 00:48:51,563 --> 00:48:53,483 He sees that as a huge win. 1099 00:48:53,922 --> 00:48:58,742 Then also he remembers the Apple Maps launch and missteps like AirPower, 1100 00:48:58,742 --> 00:49:01,442 the wireless charging that which never came to be, 1101 00:49:01,442 --> 00:49:05,302 and also the decade long self-driving car project, 1102 00:49:05,302 --> 00:49:09,062 which also never came to be. But when he talks about Apple Maps, 1103 00:49:09,062 --> 00:49:11,082 which again, I think is a good mark of a CEO, 1104 00:49:11,082 --> 00:49:13,142 said, you know, we apologize, this is him talking, 1105 00:49:13,142 --> 00:49:15,502 quote, we apologized for it, Apple Maps, 1106 00:49:15,502 --> 00:49:19,362 and literally said, go use these other apps so they're better than ours. 1107 00:49:19,362 --> 00:49:20,998 And that was some humble pie. 1108 00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:23,702 but it was the right thing for our users. 1109 00:49:23,702 --> 00:49:26,874 And so it's an example of keeping the user at the center of the decisions we make. 1110 00:49:26,874 --> 00:49:28,266 I think that goes to your point. 1111 00:49:28,266 --> 00:49:31,298 Like Tim Cook, you he reads those emails every morning. 1112 00:49:31,298 --> 00:49:36,523 He did care about users and heard how they were using it and what they should do. 1113 00:49:36,523 --> 00:49:39,445 But now he says, Cook said, quote, 1114 00:49:39,445 --> 00:49:41,947 now we've got the best map app on the planet. 1115 00:49:41,947 --> 00:49:44,429 We learned about persistence and did exactly the right thing, 1116 00:49:44,429 --> 00:49:47,392 having made the mistake. So now we're adding ads. 1117 00:49:47,392 --> 00:49:49,173 No, he didn't say the last part, 1118 00:49:49,173 --> 00:49:50,173 but. 1119 00:49:50,495 --> 00:49:52,147 I do think it's a little ironic. 1120 00:49:52,147 --> 00:49:55,962 He's like, we have the best map app on the planet and we're gonna monetize it. 1121 00:49:55,962 --> 00:50:00,096 Yep, we have accumulated a large enough base of users now that we 1122 00:50:00,096 --> 00:50:01,892 can get eyeballs into money. 1123 00:50:01,978 --> 00:50:03,338 That's right, we're gonna show him ads. 1124 00:50:03,338 --> 00:50:05,338 But no, was him talking about, 1125 00:50:05,338 --> 00:50:07,998 and you know, I still kinda wanted to see air power. 1126 00:50:07,998 --> 00:50:10,580 I wish I could get some kind of air power prototype on eBay, 1127 00:50:10,580 --> 00:50:13,821 but you know. And then Johnny Suruji, 1128 00:50:13,821 --> 00:50:17,702 who I think it is hilarious that Mark Gurman reported that he was almost out, 1129 00:50:17,702 --> 00:50:20,583 and then Johnny Suruji leaked the memo that no, 1130 00:50:20,583 --> 00:50:23,263 he's not going anywhere, and now he's been elevated, 1131 00:50:23,263 --> 00:50:24,984 maybe to help him stay around, 1132 00:50:24,984 --> 00:50:26,484 maybe to encourage him to stay, 1133 00:50:26,484 --> 00:50:28,585 but Apple's chief hardware officer. 1134 00:50:28,830 --> 00:50:31,834 So he's gonna be around for a little while making those great ~ chips 1135 00:50:31,934 --> 00:50:34,287 and all the like. So that's good. 1136 00:50:33,850 --> 00:50:34,850 Yeah, I mean, 1137 00:50:35,291 --> 00:50:40,096 Chinese Ruiji is one of the most important people at Apple because Apple Silicon, 1138 00:50:40,096 --> 00:50:42,658 Apple Silicon, Apple Silicon, whatever, 1139 00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:43,630 Yeah, yeah, 1140 00:50:42,658 --> 00:50:44,940 is such a critical piece of their strategy. 1141 00:50:44,940 --> 00:50:47,223 I mean, I'm sitting here with a MacBook Neo. 1142 00:50:47,223 --> 00:50:51,927 It's running full blown Mac OS on an iPhone chip and not even a new iPhone chip, 1143 00:50:50,749 --> 00:50:53,899 That's right. That's right. Yeah. 1144 00:50:51,927 --> 00:50:55,250 an old iPhone chip. And it's phenomenal. 1145 00:50:53,899 --> 00:50:57,773 Right. Yeah. 1146 00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:57,733 Like it's incredible. So yeah, 1147 00:50:57,733 --> 00:50:59,104 keep the guy around as long as possible. 1148 00:50:59,783 --> 00:51:02,915 Heave the guy around. And I will link Gruber's article as well. 1149 00:51:02,915 --> 00:51:05,356 He talks a lot about Tim Cook and Ternus. 1150 00:51:05,356 --> 00:51:06,757 And one of the points he makes, 1151 00:51:06,757 --> 00:51:11,400 a part of Tim Cook's legacy that will probably not get a lot of air time, 1152 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:17,103 is that there were no recalls or major product failures under his tenure. 1153 00:51:17,103 --> 00:51:23,737 And there's a great video from the Artemis II moon flyby where they took 1154 00:51:23,737 --> 00:51:25,187 a photo of the Earth with the iPhone. 1155 00:51:25,187 --> 00:51:27,649 And it was the zoom. And two... 1156 00:51:28,007 --> 00:51:32,122 Tim Cook, Greg Jaspiak, they didn't tweet about the iPhones being 1157 00:51:32,122 --> 00:51:34,865 on the spaceship until they came back and were safe. 1158 00:51:34,865 --> 00:51:38,269 And as soon as they got out of that pod in the Pacific, 1159 00:51:38,269 --> 00:51:40,972 they hit tweet. And they sent a tweet like, 1160 00:51:40,972 --> 00:51:42,925 hey, we're so glad they took the iPhones on this trip. 1161 00:51:42,925 --> 00:51:47,040 Which, again, smart, just optics or whatever. 1162 00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:48,460 Yeah, you don't want the 1163 00:51:48,102 --> 00:51:51,069 thing to burn up on reentry and have been touting how cool it was that you 1164 00:51:51,069 --> 00:51:52,069 got to be a part of it. 1165 00:51:51,229 --> 00:51:52,229 That. 1166 00:51:52,149 --> 00:51:53,589 That. And so, you know, they were smart with that. 1167 00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:58,069 But I think part of the reason NASA put iPhones on that spaceship 1168 00:51:58,069 --> 00:52:02,949 is because while Samsung makes great products and for a long time has 1169 00:52:02,949 --> 00:52:06,069 not had these kind of issues, there were a couple of Samsung phones that like blew 1170 00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:09,217 up. I think one even on a plane like caught a fire. 1171 00:52:08,418 --> 00:52:09,802 Also, this 1172 00:52:09,802 --> 00:52:13,431 just occurs to me that the biggest scandal surrounding Samsung's cameras 1173 00:52:13,552 --> 00:52:14,955 is that if you took a picture of the moon, 1174 00:52:14,365 --> 00:52:17,725 Right. Oh, 1175 00:52:14,955 --> 00:52:17,481 it just replaced it with a generic photo of the moon. 1176 00:52:17,845 --> 00:52:21,325 I didn't even think of that. Now I wish they had brought it to see like, 1177 00:52:21,325 --> 00:52:26,465 it generate an AI photo when we're literally right next to it? 1178 00:52:21,458 --> 00:52:22,524 What is it gonna do? 1179 00:52:26,465 --> 00:52:28,745 Oh, that would have been hilarious. 1180 00:52:28,745 --> 00:52:30,776 I do think that this does explain the timing. 1181 00:52:30,776 --> 00:52:36,258 If you're Tim Cook, and NASA just published pictures with your most recent product, 1182 00:52:36,258 --> 00:52:41,041 your flagship product, the entire world is watching and paying attention to this. 1183 00:52:41,041 --> 00:52:44,802 I don't know that there's anything more you can accomplish in your role. 1184 00:52:44,802 --> 00:52:46,323 I'm done. I did it. 1185 00:52:45,934 --> 00:52:46,934 That's fair. 1186 00:52:46,674 --> 00:52:49,953 That's fair. Yeah, the iPhone literally went to and around the moon. 1187 00:52:49,953 --> 00:52:55,294 So anyway, I'm optimistic about the next phase of Apple. 1188 00:52:55,294 --> 00:52:59,274 I don't expect some kind of crazy like innovation. 1189 00:52:59,274 --> 00:53:02,054 This like I don't think you're going to have AR glasses in September. 1190 00:53:02,054 --> 00:53:03,754 You know, I don't think we're going to see that. 1191 00:53:03,754 --> 00:53:07,134 But I'm bullish on Apple moving a little quicker, 1192 00:53:07,134 --> 00:53:09,694 maybe in areas like AI and to, 1193 00:53:09,694 --> 00:53:12,114 you know, try to do some new stuff like let's innovate on some 1194 00:53:12,114 --> 00:53:14,494 new product categories and 1195 00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:16,102 Yeah, I'm excited to see what Ternus does. 1196 00:53:16,102 --> 00:53:17,232 That's it. 1197 00:53:17,232 --> 00:53:20,094 Yeah, I will say the keyboards. 1198 00:53:20,094 --> 00:53:21,776 Those were recalled multiple times. 1199 00:53:21,776 --> 00:53:24,673 Well, yeah, they fixed it and then it's like, 1200 00:53:21,776 --> 00:53:22,776 with Butterfly Keyboard. 1201 00:53:24,673 --> 00:53:26,094 oops, and then they fixed it and it's like, 1202 00:53:26,094 --> 00:53:30,418 oops, and then they just had the whole keyboard replacement program for like years. 1203 00:53:27,449 --> 00:53:28,449 Yeah 1204 00:53:30,738 --> 00:53:32,320 I don't have any inside information on this, 1205 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,794 but I'm gonna just blame Johnny Ive and say Johnny Ive required something 1206 00:53:35,794 --> 00:53:37,636 and so turned his head to make it happen, 1207 00:53:37,636 --> 00:53:38,636 but I 1208 00:53:37,896 --> 00:53:41,363 I'm just saying you said there was no recalls on and I think the keyboard 1209 00:53:41,363 --> 00:53:43,406 is a pretty big exception to that. 1210 00:53:43,406 --> 00:53:45,213 It's a fairly important piece of I mean, 1211 00:53:44,227 --> 00:53:45,227 Sure. 1212 00:53:45,213 --> 00:53:47,153 as someone who uses keyboard all day long, 1213 00:53:47,153 --> 00:53:48,486 is pretty important. 1214 00:53:47,747 --> 00:53:48,747 Yeah, that's fair. 1215 00:53:49,047 --> 00:53:50,907 That's fair. But of all, but it didn't blow up. 1216 00:53:50,907 --> 00:53:52,607 You know what mean? No one had a keyboard blow up. 1217 00:53:52,607 --> 00:53:56,245 No keyboards caught on fire. All right. 1218 00:53:52,607 --> 00:53:53,607 Touche. 1219 00:53:56,245 --> 00:53:58,785 Let's do a lightning round of stuff and then we got to talk about your app. 1220 00:53:58,785 --> 00:54:04,285 I do want to mention Chad GPT and OpenAI announced GPT images 2.0 and 1221 00:54:04,285 --> 00:54:05,725 say what you will about image generation. 1222 00:54:05,725 --> 00:54:11,265 You know, I'm not all that, but every once in a while I do put 1223 00:54:11,265 --> 00:54:14,945 a thumbnail through an AI system to see like how it can adjust the image. 1224 00:54:15,345 --> 00:54:18,746 And so I did a test with 2.0 and I will say it is markedly improved. 1225 00:54:18,746 --> 00:54:25,229 so this was a shortcuts thumbnail that I never used this thumbnail to be clear. 1226 00:54:25,229 --> 00:54:31,891 I used a different one, but this was what ChatGPT gave me as an image before. 1227 00:54:31,891 --> 00:54:36,473 So before images 2.0, which looks a little like a little crazy. 1228 00:54:36,473 --> 00:54:39,514 Like, let's be honest, I don't look great in this image, 1229 00:54:39,514 --> 00:54:44,550 but I gave the same image and the same prompt to GPT images 2.0. 1230 00:54:45,382 --> 00:54:47,153 And I got this, which was much better. 1231 00:54:47,153 --> 00:54:49,274 The text is sharper and clearer. 1232 00:54:49,274 --> 00:54:54,416 It didn't garble any text. I don't look very shiny or round. 1233 00:54:53,808 --> 00:54:55,232 like Paul Giamatti. 1234 00:54:54,416 --> 00:54:58,628 Exactly. Like I look real, 1235 00:54:58,628 --> 00:55:01,729 like more real. so GPT images 2.0 debatted. 1236 00:55:01,729 --> 00:55:03,740 This was the original image for what it's worth. 1237 00:55:03,740 --> 00:55:06,471 And it's me with just some shortcuts overlaid. 1238 00:55:06,471 --> 00:55:09,072 And there was the prompt. If you want to see what I did, 1239 00:55:09,072 --> 00:55:12,934 I gave it pictures of Gambit and my picture and told it to do with the thing. 1240 00:55:13,424 --> 00:55:17,172 And yeah, GPT images did a much better job than whatever was before it. 1241 00:55:17,172 --> 00:55:20,289 just had the AI image, 1242 00:55:20,289 --> 00:55:21,683 just weird things with a face, 1243 00:55:21,683 --> 00:55:23,196 makes it super smooth and like, 1244 00:55:23,196 --> 00:55:24,196 yeah, it's weird. 1245 00:55:24,316 --> 00:55:26,593 You have to tell it to use accurate skin textures. 1246 00:55:26,593 --> 00:55:29,812 That's a real thing. I mean, 1247 00:55:27,249 --> 00:55:28,677 is that a thing? You just tell it that? 1248 00:55:28,677 --> 00:55:30,447 Well, I, okay. 1249 00:55:29,812 --> 00:55:31,437 I'm not saying it would have made this picture better, 1250 00:55:31,437 --> 00:55:32,437 but it is a real thing. 1251 00:55:32,488 --> 00:55:36,210 Okay, well you can see like even in this one like the messages bubble 1252 00:55:36,210 --> 00:55:38,622 and the search all messages It's like what happened there It's like 1253 00:55:38,622 --> 00:55:41,974 a boxing glove and then it broke this paper clip for the URL 1254 00:55:41,974 --> 00:55:46,837 and it misspelled transparency Like it it took the time to misspell transparency, 1255 00:55:46,837 --> 00:55:50,049 even though I had it spelled right but in the new one It's spelled correctly 1256 00:55:50,049 --> 00:55:51,560 and there's no garbled messages icon. 1257 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:52,560 So 1258 00:55:51,704 --> 00:55:52,704 I 1259 00:55:51,835 --> 00:55:54,296 mean, that is how I feel sometimes when I get a message that I just want 1260 00:55:54,296 --> 00:55:55,296 to punch it. 1261 00:55:55,889 --> 00:55:57,780 Maybe that was it. It was subconscious. 1262 00:55:57,780 --> 00:56:02,104 Yeah, so that's GPT 2.0. Also Google had its and also chat 1263 00:56:02,104 --> 00:56:07,459 GPT announced codex powered workspace agents I was a little hesitant about this news 1264 00:56:07,459 --> 00:56:11,632 because apparently this is replacing custom GPTs And that's one of 1265 00:56:11,632 --> 00:56:15,916 the main reasons why I use custom GPTs is because I've trained one to help 1266 00:56:15,916 --> 00:56:20,450 me with YouTube titles and descriptions and so custom GPTs go away in favor 1267 00:56:20,450 --> 00:56:23,132 of this kind of like business workspace agent use case 1268 00:56:23,901 --> 00:56:26,022 I might just move away from chat GPT entirely, 1269 00:56:26,022 --> 00:56:27,974 but that's just my thought on that. 1270 00:56:27,974 --> 00:56:30,025 So do you still use your custom GPT? 1271 00:56:30,025 --> 00:56:33,261 So it stops. Yeah. Okay. 1272 00:56:30,586 --> 00:56:32,187 Yeah, I mean, I do. 1273 00:56:33,261 --> 00:56:37,700 All right. Anyway, that's cause that that Google teased the Gemini powered series. 1274 00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:39,721 So they had their cloud keynote, 1275 00:56:39,721 --> 00:56:42,013 Google cloud. And in the keynote, 1276 00:56:42,013 --> 00:56:45,585 they literally put the Apple logo on the screen and says work. 1277 00:56:45,585 --> 00:56:48,157 And they said, quote, we're collaborating with Apple as their preferred cloud 1278 00:56:48,157 --> 00:56:51,829 provider to develop the next generation of Apple foundation models based 1279 00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:53,300 on Gemini technology. 1280 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,618 and they said that later this year we should see the Gemini powered Apple 1281 00:56:58,618 --> 00:57:00,731 Intelligence features. So it seems like iOS 27, 1282 00:57:00,731 --> 00:57:03,876 we're gonna see this stuff. Hopefully. 1283 00:57:03,568 --> 00:57:04,568 Yeah, they 1284 00:57:04,048 --> 00:57:06,659 That is interesting that Apple allowed them to announce. 1285 00:57:06,659 --> 00:57:08,039 I mean, that's an announcement, 1286 00:57:08,039 --> 00:57:10,440 right? There's two pieces of that announcement. 1287 00:57:08,242 --> 00:57:09,242 There's an announcement here. 1288 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,382 One, develop the next generation of Apple foundation models based 1289 00:57:15,382 --> 00:57:19,733 on Gemini technology, which is different than just we're going to just slap Gemini 1290 00:57:19,733 --> 00:57:22,174 into Siri, right? I don't exactly know what it means, 1291 00:57:20,540 --> 00:57:21,540 That is true. 1292 00:57:22,174 --> 00:57:26,425 but that is a distinction that is that is more than I think what we have assumed 1293 00:57:26,425 --> 00:57:30,326 was going to happen. They are developing foundation models based on Gemini. 1294 00:57:27,674 --> 00:57:28,674 Right. 1295 00:57:30,714 --> 00:57:32,645 Now maybe that just means they're going to like white label Gemini 1296 00:57:32,645 --> 00:57:34,176 and they're going to call it whatever. 1297 00:57:34,176 --> 00:57:38,579 The other one is Apple doesn't typically allow other companies 1298 00:57:38,579 --> 00:57:42,311 to pre-announce that they're going to release a thing this year. 1299 00:57:42,311 --> 00:57:44,382 Now I think we all assume that that was going to be the case, 1300 00:57:44,382 --> 00:57:46,228 but Apple has not said specifically, 1301 00:57:46,228 --> 00:57:49,685 I don't think that they were coming to Siri this year. 1302 00:57:49,685 --> 00:57:50,926 I think they just said it's coming. 1303 00:57:50,064 --> 00:57:51,064 I think 1304 00:57:51,445 --> 00:57:56,789 in the deal that Apple let Google tweet about earlier this year, 1305 00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:58,691 I think they said later this year. 1306 00:57:58,691 --> 00:58:00,172 I think that was the 1307 00:57:58,896 --> 00:58:00,429 Maybe you're right. That may be true. 1308 00:58:00,429 --> 00:58:02,212 And I think you're you're right, 1309 00:58:02,212 --> 00:58:06,609 because everyone assumed that that meant like 26 dot three dot one was going 1310 00:58:06,609 --> 00:58:07,781 to have Gemini and I was like, 1311 00:58:07,781 --> 00:58:09,905 not going to come before but BWC. 1312 00:58:09,905 --> 00:58:12,570 I remember we had that conversation on this podcast. 1313 00:58:12,207 --> 00:58:13,207 Yes, yeah, 1314 00:58:12,697 --> 00:58:14,889 yeah that we did. So yeah, anyway, 1315 00:58:14,889 --> 00:58:19,120 google said it again. So later this year really feels like ios 27. 1316 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:24,307 We'll see that amazon is investing another 25 billion dollars in anthropic 1317 00:58:24,487 --> 00:58:28,140 as part of its infrastructure deal again anthropic sponsored earlier 1318 00:58:28,140 --> 00:58:32,934 in this episode as claude, but amazon getting more invested there 1319 00:58:33,286 --> 00:58:34,973 Listen, Jeff Bezos, 1320 00:58:35,156 --> 00:58:36,156 Yeah 1321 00:58:35,697 --> 00:58:37,705 I have an app now, if you want. 1322 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:40,360 huh. 1323 00:58:39,856 --> 00:58:43,567 If you want 25, I'll give you a discount. 1324 00:58:42,749 --> 00:58:43,749 Yeah? 1325 00:58:43,567 --> 00:58:45,074 I don't even need 25 billion. 1326 00:58:45,318 --> 00:58:47,289 Well, look at that. OK. Well, yeah. 1327 00:58:47,289 --> 00:58:49,511 They're just saying, just saying. 1328 00:58:47,697 --> 00:58:48,697 to saying. 1329 00:58:49,511 --> 00:58:54,154 Also, SpaceX is apparently landed a deal to acquire Cursor, 1330 00:58:54,154 --> 00:58:56,676 which is something that developers and people use. 1331 00:58:56,676 --> 00:59:00,899 It's a kind of competitor to Cloud Code and OpenAI Codecs for developing apps. 1332 00:59:00,899 --> 00:59:06,923 And so they struck a deal. They might not go through or sign the deal until SpaceX 1333 00:59:07,543 --> 00:59:11,176 hits IPO, which apparently this deal might delay that. 1334 00:59:11,176 --> 00:59:12,787 So they're going to wait on it, 1335 00:59:12,787 --> 00:59:14,668 maybe hit IPO first and then it 1336 00:59:14,738 --> 00:59:17,753 Finally acquire... ~ yeah. 1337 00:59:17,753 --> 00:59:19,866 Cursor? It's weird. 1338 00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:19,111 I don't know. This is weird 1339 00:59:20,091 --> 00:59:26,986 because I mean, cursor is literally just like a fork of VS code, 1340 00:59:26,986 --> 00:59:29,597 which is an open source piece of software you can use for free. 1341 00:59:29,597 --> 00:59:35,141 Like, I don't understand why you would pay that much money for this other than 1342 00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:32,935 Why didn't they just fork it themselves? 1343 00:59:35,141 --> 00:59:40,064 it has a user base. You're just paying for a user base of people who are using. 1344 00:59:36,378 --> 00:59:37,378 the name. 1345 00:59:40,064 --> 00:59:42,746 I don't I don't feel like there's a lot of stickiness there. 1346 00:59:43,761 --> 00:59:47,304 It's probably just to say it is part of SpaceX, 1347 00:59:47,304 --> 00:59:49,526 which SpaceX is now like the parent company, 1348 00:59:49,526 --> 00:59:51,308 right? XAI and X are underneath it, 1349 00:59:51,153 --> 00:59:52,153 Correct. 1350 00:59:51,308 --> 00:59:55,011 and SpaceX is like the thing. Okay, 1351 00:59:55,011 --> 00:59:57,153 the other's that. And then finally, 1352 00:59:57,153 --> 01:00:02,398 before we get to Jason's app, Therese is adding a live chats feature to the app. 1353 01:00:02,398 --> 01:00:07,463 Listen, I did think Clubhouse when I first saw this announcement, 1354 01:00:07,463 --> 01:00:08,614 but what it is... 1355 01:00:08,910 --> 01:00:11,542 happens is like certain creators is not going to be open to everyone 1356 01:00:11,542 --> 01:00:16,405 but certain creators and influential names can basically start what looks like 1357 01:00:16,405 --> 01:00:22,490 a group message like a group chat in threads and a certain number of people 1358 01:00:22,490 --> 01:00:28,254 can join and participate in this group chat by sending images or text 1359 01:00:28,494 --> 01:00:31,916 can react to messages with emoji and then after a certain point it would 1360 01:00:31,916 --> 01:00:37,240 cut it off so you can't actually interact but you could just watch it i listen 1361 01:00:37,692 --> 01:00:44,057 Meta is clearly good at engagement and getting people to engage with their 1362 01:00:44,057 --> 01:00:49,291 platforms. And frankly, I think this might be a great feature. 1363 01:00:49,291 --> 01:00:52,403 Not great as in like, I want to use this feature, 1364 01:00:52,403 --> 01:00:57,006 but great as in like getting people engaged in live events on their platform. 1365 01:00:57,006 --> 01:01:01,159 Because that is one thing where even during like live events like the Oscars, 1366 01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:03,781 which nobody watches, but like the Super Bowl or whatever, 1367 01:01:03,781 --> 01:01:04,781 like those kinds of events. 1368 01:01:05,266 --> 01:01:08,978 There's still a bifurcation of like where people go to post about it. 1369 01:01:08,978 --> 01:01:11,540 And I still find a lot of people default to X, 1370 01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:15,562 especially people like news anchors or sports people and athletes. 1371 01:01:15,562 --> 01:01:20,190 Like there's still that and there's not as much activity during those live events 1372 01:01:20,190 --> 01:01:21,375 like the Super Bowl on threads. 1373 01:01:21,375 --> 01:01:26,318 It has grown for sure. But I think this is a play where threads is wants 1374 01:01:26,318 --> 01:01:30,171 to be the place where when there's a big cultural moment happening, 1375 01:01:30,171 --> 01:01:32,252 like the NBA championships. 1376 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,142 or the World Series or World Cup is coming up. 1377 01:01:35,142 --> 01:01:40,176 And so probably all those things is trying to become that live event platform. 1378 01:01:40,176 --> 01:01:41,677 And I think it probably has a good chance to do it, 1379 01:01:41,677 --> 01:01:42,677 if this is any good. 1380 01:01:44,594 --> 01:01:45,600 I don't know, you want to start a live chat, 1381 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:46,600 Jason? 1382 01:01:46,628 --> 01:01:48,419 I really don't. And I think that 1383 01:01:49,399 --> 01:01:51,840 the way you explained it, this is not your fault. 1384 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,802 But it made no sense. And I was thinking you're what you're about to 1385 01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:54,960 Really? 1386 01:01:55,802 --> 01:02:01,325 say after that is meta is very good at making product decisions that just make 1387 01:02:01,325 --> 01:02:04,146 no sense. Like I don't actually understand what's happening. 1388 01:02:02,448 --> 01:02:03,448 If you look at 1389 01:02:04,369 --> 01:02:06,430 this image, which I'll put as the chapter art, 1390 01:02:06,430 --> 01:02:08,451 and you'll see in every app except Apple Podcasts, 1391 01:02:08,451 --> 01:02:10,652 or if you support the show, join.primarytech.fm. 1392 01:02:10,652 --> 01:02:12,213 But if you're watching on the video, 1393 01:02:12,213 --> 01:02:15,135 you see this middle screenshot where, 1394 01:02:15,135 --> 01:02:19,417 my word, what just happened? TechCrunch just freaked out because I hit Command+. 1395 01:02:19,417 --> 01:02:21,738 This center screenshot, I feel like, 1396 01:02:21,738 --> 01:02:23,539 shows what this thing is going to be. 1397 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,760 Yeah, so people 1398 01:02:24,511 --> 01:02:28,508 are just going to be able to watch you have a group chat on threads, 1399 01:02:28,508 --> 01:02:30,742 which is already a thing you can do on threads. 1400 01:02:30,907 --> 01:02:33,872 but it's gonna be hosted by someone. 1401 01:02:33,872 --> 01:02:36,998 So if they get someone like, I don't know, 1402 01:02:36,998 --> 01:02:40,003 Stephen Curry or Shaq, like if they could get Shaq. 1403 01:02:39,248 --> 01:02:40,260 Rebbets death curry 1404 01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:43,566 and Shaq can just post together on threads already. 1405 01:02:43,783 --> 01:02:45,923 But if threads gives them a bunch of money, 1406 01:02:45,830 --> 01:02:46,830 Well that's the thing. 1407 01:02:45,923 --> 01:02:51,263 that's the thing. Then they can do that or like some music artist doing this during 1408 01:02:51,263 --> 01:02:54,043 the Grammys. Maybe, you know, maybe, 1409 01:02:54,043 --> 01:02:56,403 maybe that's something. So I don't know. 1410 01:02:56,403 --> 01:02:58,283 We'll see. We'll see if this turns out to be a thing. 1411 01:02:58,283 --> 01:03:01,423 you know, men always want to figure out how to engage people more, 1412 01:03:01,423 --> 01:03:02,623 get people on the services. 1413 01:03:02,623 --> 01:03:03,623 Meta 1414 01:03:02,864 --> 01:03:05,938 is always willing to spend money to get you to spend more of your time 1415 01:03:05,938 --> 01:03:07,626 on a platform so it can make more money. 1416 01:03:06,196 --> 01:03:07,196 That is true. 1417 01:03:07,626 --> 01:03:09,878 That is true. All right, I'm going talk about how I got scammed 1418 01:03:09,878 --> 01:03:12,560 in the bonus episode, which I did like literally get scammed 1419 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,372 and literally paid somebody money I wasn't supposed to. 1420 01:03:13,968 --> 01:03:15,300 And it has nothing to do with my app, 1421 01:03:14,372 --> 01:03:18,265 No, it has nothing to do with Jason's app. 1422 01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:16,300 I just want to be clear. 1423 01:03:18,265 --> 01:03:22,378 But I'm literally running Jason's app right now. 1424 01:03:22,378 --> 01:03:23,790 I'm using it for a couple of days. 1425 01:03:23,790 --> 01:03:27,302 I'm going to share it. This is a live picture of Jason's app. 1426 01:03:27,302 --> 01:03:29,835 Jason, tell me about the app. How's this experience gone? 1427 01:03:29,835 --> 01:03:32,247 You're actually testing this. People have downloaded this and tested it. 1428 01:03:31,536 --> 01:03:33,008 I don't actually love your layout, 1429 01:03:32,247 --> 01:03:35,079 Why not? What do I need to do? 1430 01:03:33,008 --> 01:03:35,096 that's okay. That's okay. 1431 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,852 I would make the notes a little bit narrower so that you could see more 1432 01:03:38,852 --> 01:03:40,544 of your note. I'm sorry, the note. 1433 01:03:39,389 --> 01:03:42,409 Oh, sure, sure, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1434 01:03:40,544 --> 01:03:41,695 Yeah, that list. There you go. 1435 01:03:41,695 --> 01:03:43,587 That's a little bit better. So yeah, 1436 01:03:42,409 --> 01:03:43,409 that's fine. Okay. 1437 01:03:43,587 --> 01:03:47,283 I mean, listen, I explained this before and I actually wrote an article this morning 1438 01:03:47,283 --> 01:03:51,733 that talked about how every note app I've ever used is like missing 1439 01:03:52,034 --> 01:03:56,057 the most important thing, which is notes apps are basically been designed 1440 01:03:56,057 --> 01:03:58,439 to capture all the information, 1441 01:03:58,439 --> 01:03:59,450 but they don't. 1442 01:03:59,570 --> 01:04:02,851 come with context, right? Which is for me a really important thing. 1443 01:04:02,851 --> 01:04:05,302 If you take notes in as many meetings as I do, 1444 01:04:05,302 --> 01:04:08,484 having the context of syncing it with your calendar is super useful. 1445 01:04:08,484 --> 01:04:10,942 I don't want to have to my calendar open over here, 1446 01:04:10,942 --> 01:04:13,156 my notes app over here, my to-do app over here, 1447 01:04:13,156 --> 01:04:15,556 whatever. I want to be able to take notes. 1448 01:04:15,556 --> 01:04:18,808 And so I spent a lot of time using a lot of notes apps, 1449 01:04:18,808 --> 01:04:20,328 and a lot of them are very good. 1450 01:04:20,328 --> 01:04:21,849 A lot of them are beautifully designed. 1451 01:04:21,849 --> 01:04:23,610 I use Ulysses as a writing app. 1452 01:04:23,610 --> 01:04:25,771 That doesn't change. That's where I'm going to write stuff. 1453 01:04:24,967 --> 01:04:25,967 VAS. 1454 01:04:25,771 --> 01:04:28,872 But what I wanted is, OK, when I sit down in a meeting, 1455 01:04:29,756 --> 01:04:32,368 sit down on a call. I want to just like click my calendar, 1456 01:04:32,368 --> 01:04:36,180 make a new note from this. Now I've got all that context and then I 1457 01:04:36,180 --> 01:04:37,922 can write all the note, whatever I want. 1458 01:04:37,922 --> 01:04:41,284 And then I could just, now Steven has not unlocked the pro features, 1459 01:04:41,284 --> 01:04:42,925 which he should have a code to do that. 1460 01:04:42,171 --> 01:04:43,728 I know, I should, yeah. 1461 01:04:42,925 --> 01:04:48,099 But ~ you can just click the, the little summarize button and it'll give 1462 01:04:48,099 --> 01:04:50,520 you a ~ summary, an Apple intelligence. 1463 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,416 I finally found the one thing Apple intelligence is good at. 1464 01:04:53,416 --> 01:04:58,456 And it is to summarize your notes and then give you all the action items from that. 1465 01:04:58,778 --> 01:05:00,759 So it'll go through and it'll look and be like, 1466 01:05:00,759 --> 01:05:03,040 ~ it looks like you agreed to follow up on this. 1467 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,571 And it looks like this person agreed to do this and it'll show them to you. 1468 01:05:05,571 --> 01:05:12,075 And then you can just send them to things or reminders or OmniFocus or Todoist. 1469 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:09,720 Yes. 1470 01:05:12,075 --> 01:05:13,555 Like literally just with one click, 1471 01:05:13,555 --> 01:05:19,898 it'll just do that for you. it's so that sort of like that flow through from your 1472 01:05:17,797 --> 01:05:18,797 And you can. 1473 01:05:19,898 --> 01:05:23,080 calendar to your meeting notes to the action steps. 1474 01:05:23,259 --> 01:05:25,331 And it's so cool, like you just give it access to your calendars. 1475 01:05:25,331 --> 01:05:26,872 And so all my events are here on the right. 1476 01:05:26,872 --> 01:05:28,894 You can customize what calendars are viewed, 1477 01:05:28,894 --> 01:05:30,832 which I was about to send it as a feature request, 1478 01:05:30,832 --> 01:05:32,797 but I was like, let me make sure I could just do this in the settings. 1479 01:05:32,797 --> 01:05:36,560 And I could, which was ideal. So I turned off all the calendars. 1480 01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:34,890 Yep. Yep. Turn them on or off. 1481 01:05:34,890 --> 01:05:35,890 Yep. 1482 01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,763 You can right click an event and create a new note linked to that event 1483 01:05:41,084 --> 01:05:43,656 or link that event to whatever note is open live, 1484 01:05:43,656 --> 01:05:46,258 like in your viewer. Now I just seeing all the Apple intelligence 1485 01:05:46,258 --> 01:05:48,790 and summarize features. I think this is really cool. 1486 01:05:48,790 --> 01:05:50,251 I already had a couple of feature requests, 1487 01:05:50,251 --> 01:05:52,753 but you've been like, there's a test flight that exists. 1488 01:05:53,137 --> 01:05:55,491 You have some people on it. what is it, 1489 01:05:55,491 --> 01:05:57,746 like, some of the feedback if you can share, 1490 01:05:57,746 --> 01:05:59,209 like, good feedback, questions? 1491 01:05:58,128 --> 01:05:59,569 Yeah, I will. 1492 01:05:59,609 --> 01:06:03,371 Let me one thing I was going to say that I missed the other feature. 1493 01:06:01,404 --> 01:06:02,404 Yeah, yeah. 1494 01:06:03,371 --> 01:06:07,203 This is the one that's the hardest right now is you can actually then just chat with 1495 01:06:07,203 --> 01:06:09,605 your notes and it's all on device. 1496 01:06:08,477 --> 01:06:09,477 Hmm. 1497 01:06:09,605 --> 01:06:12,396 So, for example, I can ask it, 1498 01:06:12,396 --> 01:06:14,508 when is my next recording? Well, 1499 01:06:14,508 --> 01:06:15,508 because I can see my calendar, 1500 01:06:15,478 --> 01:06:18,420 my notes, it's like, you're recording tomorrow morning primary tech at this time. 1501 01:06:18,420 --> 01:06:23,823 Or I can say, ~ so I was I was producing a podcast on Tuesday and I 1502 01:06:23,823 --> 01:06:24,823 had made some notes. 1503 01:06:25,596 --> 01:06:27,777 feedback I needed to give the person who was hosting it, 1504 01:06:27,777 --> 01:06:31,540 I didn't, wasn't, we didn't have a conversation afterwards. 1505 01:06:31,540 --> 01:06:32,801 So I could literally just say, 1506 01:06:32,801 --> 01:06:36,063 what did I need to, what did I need to talk to so and so about? 1507 01:06:36,063 --> 01:06:37,344 And it's like, here's the note, 1508 01:06:37,344 --> 01:06:39,746 here are the three things you said you needed to talk to them about, 1509 01:06:39,746 --> 01:06:41,847 and it just surfaces that information for you. 1510 01:06:41,847 --> 01:06:44,239 So that's really useful as well. 1511 01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:46,320 So your question, what has been the feedback? 1512 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,651 Well, it took me a while to figure out iCloud sync. 1513 01:06:48,651 --> 01:06:51,053 So it will sync across your devices now. 1514 01:06:51,053 --> 01:06:52,774 That was super broken at first, 1515 01:06:52,774 --> 01:06:55,236 was very complicated, was able to figure it out. 1516 01:06:55,688 --> 01:07:01,160 ~ It also the other feature requests were like importing all of your 1517 01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:05,251 to do's and that's not going to happen because I don't that's I'm not going 1518 01:07:05,251 --> 01:07:07,232 to like this is not a very good to do app. 1519 01:07:07,232 --> 01:07:12,313 This is a very good app to help you figure out action items from your notes 1520 01:07:12,313 --> 01:07:14,330 and then put them in your to do app. 1521 01:07:14,330 --> 01:07:15,984 Now it does actually have a to do section. 1522 01:07:15,984 --> 01:07:19,555 Like if you have to do is if you've either created them as like a checklist item or 1523 01:07:20,021 --> 01:07:21,972 had the Apple intelligence summary create them for you. 1524 01:07:21,972 --> 01:07:24,152 It will show them all in a window you can open. 1525 01:07:24,152 --> 01:07:25,753 Like that's fine. You can look at those. 1526 01:07:25,753 --> 01:07:28,303 And the reason that's useful is you could right click on them and create 1527 01:07:28,303 --> 01:07:32,814 a new note from that to do. And it'll actually create a new note link back to the, 1528 01:07:32,814 --> 01:07:35,335 to the original note where you created that to do. 1529 01:07:35,335 --> 01:07:38,233 And it goes both ways. So like if you pull up the original note, 1530 01:07:38,233 --> 01:07:40,787 it's like, yeah, you made a note about this to do over here. 1531 01:07:40,787 --> 01:07:44,998 So that's really useful, but it is not meant for like managing your task list. 1532 01:07:44,998 --> 01:07:46,658 It's not going to be great at that. 1533 01:07:45,406 --> 01:07:46,406 Right, right, right, right. 1534 01:07:46,658 --> 01:07:49,799 So no, I'm not going to let it import all your reminders notes. 1535 01:07:49,961 --> 01:07:53,095 or reminders because I just feel like it's not very good at that. 1536 01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:52,500 That's not the point. 1537 01:07:53,095 --> 01:07:54,260 That's not what it's for. 1538 01:07:54,524 --> 01:07:55,936 But you've also sent me a screenshot. 1539 01:07:55,936 --> 01:07:59,821 I won't show the screenshot, but of an iPhone app also running. 1540 01:07:59,179 --> 01:08:00,926 there is an iPhone app that exists. 1541 01:07:59,821 --> 01:08:03,327 So have you got an iCloud sync to work? 1542 01:08:03,327 --> 01:08:04,327 You're still working on it. 1543 01:08:03,583 --> 01:08:04,583 Yeah, it 1544 01:08:04,123 --> 01:08:06,355 syncs from the phone. It syncs between that Macs. 1545 01:08:06,355 --> 01:08:11,109 It'll sync from and the thing about the iPhone app is it is designed to make 1546 01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:13,451 it much easier to just quickly do notes. 1547 01:08:13,451 --> 01:08:15,793 So it's like I'm in this meeting and I just want to record it for example, 1548 01:08:15,793 --> 01:08:17,114 because this will let you record. 1549 01:08:17,114 --> 01:08:21,117 It is not it's not like an app like granola or auto auto where that's 1550 01:08:21,117 --> 01:08:25,441 its primary purpose is like recording but 1551 01:08:24,394 --> 01:08:25,394 Yeah, 1552 01:08:26,082 --> 01:08:32,076 it will record audio and it uses the Apple speech recognition, 1553 01:08:32,076 --> 01:08:33,076 which is actually 1554 01:08:33,045 --> 01:08:35,236 really good, you don't even need to use whisper kit. 1555 01:08:35,236 --> 01:08:37,918 If you use that and transcribe it for you in real time, 1556 01:08:37,918 --> 01:08:40,740 or you could just be like I took him with the note, 1557 01:08:40,740 --> 01:08:42,471 you know, the audio, what is it called? 1558 01:08:42,471 --> 01:08:44,792 Memo's audio memos, voice memos. 1559 01:08:43,497 --> 01:08:44,497 Voice memos. 1560 01:08:44,792 --> 01:08:47,824 Yeah, and drop that in there and it'll just transcribe it for you. 1561 01:08:47,824 --> 01:08:52,436 ~ But the on the phone, like what I imagine is you're more likely to just 1562 01:08:52,436 --> 01:08:54,408 be like set this thing down, let it record, 1563 01:08:54,408 --> 01:08:57,419 then it'll just drop right into a note on your Mac and it still has 1564 01:08:57,419 --> 01:08:59,971 the the calendar sync, it still has the same features. 1565 01:09:00,511 --> 01:09:05,800 Weirdly, the ask your notes feature works better and faster on the iPhone. 1566 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,666 It's using the same stuff. I don't really know why that is, 1567 01:09:06,376 --> 01:09:07,376 Interesting. 1568 01:09:08,666 --> 01:09:11,290 but I gotta sort that out a little bit first, 1569 01:09:11,290 --> 01:09:12,290 so. 1570 01:09:11,477 --> 01:09:13,619 So are you going back and forth with Claude? 1571 01:09:13,619 --> 01:09:16,372 Like if you find a bug or you want to tweak something, 1572 01:09:16,372 --> 01:09:19,654 like are you going back to Xcode and asking Claude to do a thing, 1573 01:09:19,654 --> 01:09:21,797 having it do it, build it again, 1574 01:09:21,797 --> 01:09:23,829 test it again? Like are you doing that process? 1575 01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:28,011 Yep. so yeah, most of what I've built in this, 1576 01:09:28,011 --> 01:09:32,564 I've used Claude code to help me do because I don't know Swift or Swift UI. 1577 01:09:32,564 --> 01:09:36,166 I've learned a ton of it. I've learned to troubleshoot it. 1578 01:09:32,787 --> 01:09:36,905 Right? Right? Yeah. That's good. 1579 01:09:36,166 --> 01:09:40,518 It has done an amazing job of basically everything I've asked except 1580 01:09:40,518 --> 01:09:42,809 for the iCloud sync. had to figure most of that out on my own. 1581 01:09:42,809 --> 01:09:47,112 ~ I've been using so I've never used Claude code in the terminal. 1582 01:09:47,112 --> 01:09:50,554 I've only ever used it in the app and it works fantastic to do that. 1583 01:09:50,554 --> 01:09:52,175 But there are definitely times when it's like, 1584 01:09:52,175 --> 01:09:53,175 okay, 1585 01:09:52,811 --> 01:09:54,352 this is done, this is done, this done, 1586 01:09:54,352 --> 01:09:56,714 go ahead and build and run and I'll get the same error. 1587 01:09:56,714 --> 01:09:58,275 And I literally just take a screenshot, 1588 01:09:58,275 --> 01:10:00,377 drop it in there and be like, still broke. 1589 01:10:00,377 --> 01:10:03,730 That's the, and it'll fix it. It'll fix it. 1590 01:10:01,055 --> 01:10:02,973 Yeah, that's what I'll do. Yeah, 1591 01:10:02,973 --> 01:10:03,973 yeah, yeah. 1592 01:10:03,730 --> 01:10:05,716 Like I don't even have to, I don't even know what's wrong. 1593 01:10:05,716 --> 01:10:06,863 I don't know how to explain what's wrong. 1594 01:10:06,863 --> 01:10:11,036 I just drop it in there. So I have had someone who's looked at basically 1595 01:10:11,036 --> 01:10:13,498 the entire code base for me. Well, 1596 01:10:12,665 --> 01:10:13,665 really? 1597 01:10:13,498 --> 01:10:16,891 I just want to make sure that as you go through and you make all these changes, 1598 01:10:16,891 --> 01:10:21,064 are you creating weird edge cases that could cause other, 1599 01:10:19,474 --> 01:10:20,474 Right. 1600 01:10:21,064 --> 01:10:22,064 listen, there's like, 1601 01:10:22,069 --> 01:10:24,291 no malware, like this is a notes app, 1602 01:10:23,657 --> 01:10:25,000 No, no, Yeah. 1603 01:10:24,291 --> 01:10:26,493 right? And it doesn't send your notes anywhere. 1604 01:10:26,493 --> 01:10:29,886 I went back and forth on that a lot because there are much more capable 1605 01:10:29,946 --> 01:10:33,069 LLM tools that you could use, 1606 01:10:31,723 --> 01:10:32,723 Hmm. 1607 01:10:33,069 --> 01:10:35,965 but I don't want to send people's notes to OpenAI because then I got 1608 01:10:35,965 --> 01:10:38,013 to deal with the fact that you're sending your notes to OpenAI. 1609 01:10:36,103 --> 01:10:38,792 All That's good, yep. 1610 01:10:38,013 --> 01:10:41,997 I have considered, and this is something that I may do down the road where 1611 01:10:41,997 --> 01:10:45,200 you could give people the option of downloading a better local model. 1612 01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,550 Like so Gemma 3, one of the small, 1613 01:10:45,812 --> 01:10:46,812 Right. 1614 01:10:47,550 --> 01:10:48,763 you know, the 2 billion parameter one. 1615 01:10:49,555 --> 01:10:53,217 It probably won't be significantly faster than Apple intelligence 1616 01:10:53,477 --> 01:10:56,359 and Apple intelligence is like three months is going to just be Gemma. 1617 01:10:56,359 --> 01:11:01,041 Like I might as well wait and see what happens at WWDC before I decide what to do. 1618 01:10:56,595 --> 01:10:59,154 That is true, yeah. Just wait. 1619 01:10:59,154 --> 01:11:00,154 Yeah. 1620 01:11:01,041 --> 01:11:05,924 ~ but when I've used like either open AI or, 1621 01:11:05,924 --> 01:11:09,416 ~ Gemini through the API, 1622 01:11:09,416 --> 01:11:11,737 it actually does a much, much better job, 1623 01:11:11,737 --> 01:11:13,048 but that's what you would expect, 1624 01:11:13,048 --> 01:11:15,189 but you have to send your notes to those places to do it. 1625 01:11:15,189 --> 01:11:18,801 And I feel like it's, it is good enough for what people would expect, 1626 01:11:18,801 --> 01:11:19,801 which is 1627 01:11:19,551 --> 01:11:22,033 identifying to do's and summarizing meetings, 1628 01:11:22,033 --> 01:11:24,683 that it's the benefit of being able to say, 1629 01:11:24,683 --> 01:11:26,257 I don't have access to any of your stuff. 1630 01:11:26,257 --> 01:11:28,379 No one has access to any of your stuff. 1631 01:11:28,379 --> 01:11:32,283 It's all happening on device is a much more useful way to do that. 1632 01:11:28,693 --> 01:11:30,430 Good. Yeah. 1633 01:11:32,283 --> 01:11:34,939 This is good, man, I'm excited for you and for this. 1634 01:11:34,939 --> 01:11:37,997 two other things, the name and availability. 1635 01:11:37,997 --> 01:11:41,084 So the name, you want to mention some of the names you're going between, 1636 01:11:41,084 --> 01:11:42,084 you just want to say the name of 1637 01:11:41,877 --> 01:11:43,597 Did we say the name already on this episode? 1638 01:11:43,597 --> 01:11:46,061 Maybe it was in the pre-show. Yeah. 1639 01:11:43,597 --> 01:11:45,411 I don't think we said it, we said it in the pre-show, 1640 01:11:45,411 --> 01:11:46,844 we said it in the pre-show, but not yet. 1641 01:11:46,061 --> 01:11:48,121 Let's save the name. If you're a member, 1642 01:11:46,844 --> 01:11:50,252 Okay. Okay. 1643 01:11:48,121 --> 01:11:49,881 you can go back and listen to the pre-show. 1644 01:11:49,881 --> 01:11:54,881 I'm 99.9 % sure I'm going to stick with the name. 1645 01:11:50,252 --> 01:11:51,955 Go listen to the unedited feed, 1646 01:11:51,955 --> 01:11:52,955 by the way, that sounds good. 1647 01:11:54,881 --> 01:11:56,980 So that's fine. I I've bought a domain. 1648 01:11:55,179 --> 01:11:58,336 Okay, okay, okay, good. did you? 1649 01:11:56,980 --> 01:12:02,681 I've done all those things. But I'll tell you about it when we're done recording. 1650 01:11:58,336 --> 01:12:00,213 that's great. Wait, was the dot com available? 1651 01:12:02,593 --> 01:12:03,593 Okay, 1652 01:12:02,826 --> 01:12:03,826 okay, okay. 1653 01:12:04,413 --> 01:12:07,665 But, ~ and then I, and I've built the website for it, 1654 01:12:07,665 --> 01:12:09,366 all of that stuff. I just have to figure out, 1655 01:12:09,366 --> 01:12:11,387 I'm hoping that it'll launch pretty soon. 1656 01:12:11,387 --> 01:12:13,018 Like I'm hoping to be able to launch, 1657 01:12:13,018 --> 01:12:15,879 but what I need to do is get a little bit more feedback from beta tester. 1658 01:12:15,879 --> 01:12:18,251 So if you're on the beta, use the heck out of it. 1659 01:12:18,251 --> 01:12:20,762 If you would send me a lot of feedback. 1660 01:12:19,410 --> 01:12:20,410 Yeah. 1661 01:12:20,762 --> 01:12:23,354 So I make sure to know like what actually is, 1662 01:12:23,354 --> 01:12:25,355 or is not working out other people's devices. 1663 01:12:25,355 --> 01:12:28,437 My hope is to be able to release both apps at the same time. 1664 01:12:28,437 --> 01:12:31,853 Yeah. We'll see if I, we'll see if I feel like that. 1665 01:12:28,437 --> 01:12:29,437 with the iPhone app. 1666 01:12:31,723 --> 01:12:32,723 Do you want more 1667 01:12:32,246 --> 01:12:33,246 beta testers? 1668 01:12:33,831 --> 01:12:34,981 I can send you the beta. Yeah, 1669 01:12:34,981 --> 01:12:36,553 do I want more beta testers in general? 1670 01:12:36,553 --> 01:12:41,227 ~ If everybody who signed up to be on the beta started using it, 1671 01:12:41,227 --> 01:12:44,049 I would be in a good shape. I do not need hundreds of people sending 1672 01:12:44,049 --> 01:12:45,800 me feedbacks on these types of things, 1673 01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:46,640 You don't? Okay, say okay. 1674 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,273 but I have a good number of people on the beta. 1675 01:12:48,273 --> 01:12:54,538 So I appreciate all of that. ~ But I may need to have the iPhone app beta tested 1676 01:12:54,538 --> 01:12:55,739 as well. So we'll see about that. 1677 01:12:55,739 --> 01:12:59,642 But I'm probably going to just use the same group of people because it's just easier 1678 01:12:58,322 --> 01:12:59,322 Okay. 1679 01:12:59,642 --> 01:13:02,062 to not have to onboard people who haven't used it. 1680 01:13:01,744 --> 01:13:02,744 Yeah. 1681 01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:03,280 I had to 1682 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,843 create a like a welcome flow so that people would know what to do because it's going 1683 01:13:05,843 --> 01:13:09,556 to ask you. It has to get one of the nice things is that it doesn't. 1684 01:13:09,556 --> 01:13:11,638 You don't have to log into your calendars. 1685 01:13:11,638 --> 01:13:12,689 I don't want to mess with any of that. 1686 01:13:12,689 --> 01:13:15,761 So it just uses if you're logged into an account on your Mac, 1687 01:13:12,871 --> 01:13:13,871 Right, right. 1688 01:13:15,761 --> 01:13:18,754 it'll just share that information with event kit. 1689 01:13:16,146 --> 01:13:17,880 It'll just use it. Right. 1690 01:13:18,754 --> 01:13:20,627 I think it's called where it'll just let you say, 1691 01:13:20,627 --> 01:13:23,498 do you want to give access to your calendars and it'll just show your calendar, 1692 01:13:23,498 --> 01:13:25,259 right? You don't have to give me any credentials, 1693 01:13:25,259 --> 01:13:27,411 any of that kind of stuff. The other thing it'll do, 1694 01:13:27,411 --> 01:13:30,674 it'll ask you permission to let it get information from other apps. 1695 01:13:30,942 --> 01:13:33,764 The only reason it asks you that is you can just import out, 1696 01:13:33,764 --> 01:13:36,685 import your notes. Like you can export all your notes from the notes app 1697 01:13:35,026 --> 01:13:36,026 Right. 1698 01:13:36,685 --> 01:13:38,146 or Bayer or Craft or whatever. 1699 01:13:38,146 --> 01:13:41,088 And then you can just import all those so that you like, 1700 01:13:41,088 --> 01:13:42,729 it's not super useful to have to like, 1701 01:13:42,729 --> 01:13:45,901 I have all my new notes here. All my old notes are over there. 1702 01:13:45,030 --> 01:13:46,030 No, need your own ones. 1703 01:13:45,901 --> 01:13:46,901 You can just have them all in one place. 1704 01:13:46,862 --> 01:13:48,483 And then you can do all the same features, 1705 01:13:48,483 --> 01:13:54,216 get summaries, get to do's, get like ask the app what you wanna know. 1706 01:13:50,078 --> 01:13:51,078 Yeah. 1707 01:13:53,922 --> 01:13:55,235 It's this super fun 1708 01:13:54,216 --> 01:13:57,298 And availability I'm hoping like soon. 1709 01:13:57,959 --> 01:13:59,693 I'm really excited for you. This is cool. 1710 01:13:59,693 --> 01:14:02,067 And so because you already got the test flight through Apple 1711 01:14:02,468 --> 01:14:05,885 I assume actually submitting it to the app store would be like you can 1712 01:14:05,885 --> 01:14:07,428 do that like you're you're right there 1713 01:14:06,942 --> 01:14:07,942 Yeah, it's 1714 01:14:07,722 --> 01:14:11,182 all it's so the test flight, you have to upload the app to App Store Connect 1715 01:14:11,182 --> 01:14:16,182 in order to do a test flight. You just don't have it submitted 1716 01:14:11,450 --> 01:14:13,519 Right. Yeah. 1717 01:14:16,182 --> 01:14:17,702 for distribution at this point. 1718 01:14:17,702 --> 01:14:20,962 It does have to go through App Store review in order to go through a test flight, 1719 01:14:20,962 --> 01:14:23,522 but it is a less rigorous App Store review. 1720 01:14:23,522 --> 01:14:26,542 I believe they're just I don't know if they're just like making sure it's 1721 01:14:23,535 --> 01:14:24,535 Right. 1722 01:14:26,542 --> 01:14:29,862 not malware or making sure that it doesn't significantly copy some kind 1723 01:14:29,862 --> 01:14:30,902 of feature or something like that. 1724 01:14:30,902 --> 01:14:36,422 Like, I don't know. to do the biggest barrier for me at this point was OK. 1725 01:14:37,342 --> 01:14:39,722 I have to think through like app screenshots, 1726 01:14:39,722 --> 01:14:41,856 marketing language, all that stuff to get it ready. 1727 01:14:39,722 --> 01:14:40,722 Yeah. 1728 01:14:41,856 --> 01:14:44,516 And that's the thing I'm working on pretty hard right now so that I 1729 01:14:44,516 --> 01:14:48,936 can get it available. And I think the other piece is like, 1730 01:14:48,936 --> 01:14:51,096 I need people to have confidence. 1731 01:14:51,096 --> 01:14:54,456 To be clear, I only made this app because I needed an app. 1732 01:14:54,456 --> 01:14:57,436 And then I was like, this is super better than I thought it was going to be. 1733 01:14:57,436 --> 01:14:58,616 And a lot of people were like, 1734 01:14:57,482 --> 01:14:58,482 Yeah. 1735 01:14:58,616 --> 01:14:59,856 could I try your app? And I was like, 1736 01:14:59,856 --> 01:15:02,096 sure. And it's like, well, can I make it available? 1737 01:15:02,096 --> 01:15:05,436 Well, the standard between I just needed a thing and 1738 01:15:05,077 --> 01:15:06,077 Yeah. 1739 01:15:05,738 --> 01:15:07,089 make it available for other people, 1740 01:15:07,089 --> 01:15:08,550 there's a huge gap between there. 1741 01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:14,876 And Cloud Code was absolutely able to get me to make the app I wanted to use. 1742 01:15:08,618 --> 01:15:09,618 red. 1743 01:15:14,876 --> 01:15:19,479 There's a little more work I needed to do for make this available to other people. 1744 01:15:15,081 --> 01:15:16,081 Yeah. 1745 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,522 so depending on how long it takes to get through that, 1746 01:15:22,522 --> 01:15:24,764 then I'll release it. 1747 01:15:25,268 --> 01:15:27,349 Man, I'm excited. This is gonna be super fun. 1748 01:15:27,349 --> 01:15:29,029 We will both have an app in the App Store. 1749 01:15:29,029 --> 01:15:34,192 Me, my coffee finder. But yours will actually be useful. 1750 01:15:31,499 --> 01:15:32,499 That's right. 1751 01:15:34,192 --> 01:15:37,833 I think it's cool. I'll be using it. 1752 01:15:37,833 --> 01:15:39,494 I asked you for a bare notes import. 1753 01:15:39,494 --> 01:15:46,187 also, could you build an MCP connector for Claude Cowork so Claude could just 1754 01:15:46,187 --> 01:15:48,439 do stuff to inside the app? I don't even know. 1755 01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:49,449 Maybe ask Claude about that. 1756 01:15:49,449 --> 01:15:51,685 MCP connector. 1757 01:15:51,896 --> 01:15:52,896 because 1758 01:15:52,297 --> 01:15:54,955 one of the things I actually, so I exported all my bare notes, 1759 01:15:54,955 --> 01:15:57,512 I imported them into the app, I almost said the name, 1760 01:15:57,512 --> 01:15:58,826 but I imported them into the app. 1761 01:15:58,826 --> 01:16:00,190 I love the name, by the way, love it. 1762 01:16:00,005 --> 01:16:01,005 I mean, 1763 01:16:00,246 --> 01:16:02,124 by the way, I'm pretty sure that when you showed a screen, 1764 01:16:02,124 --> 01:16:04,112 no, maybe, maybe not when you showed, 1765 01:16:03,118 --> 01:16:04,401 No, no, no, no, no. 1766 01:16:04,112 --> 01:16:05,112 okay, okay. 1767 01:16:05,023 --> 01:16:06,998 Well, when I clicked the pro thing, 1768 01:16:06,998 --> 01:16:10,747 ~ it did say it there. Okay, 1769 01:16:08,387 --> 01:16:10,648 It's fine. It's not a secret. It's fine. 1770 01:16:10,648 --> 01:16:11,648 I'm just reserving 1771 01:16:10,747 --> 01:16:11,747 okay. 1772 01:16:11,529 --> 01:16:14,611 the right that there is a small possibility I may choose to go with something else. 1773 01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:16,708 So if you were watching, yeah, 1774 01:16:14,611 --> 01:16:18,433 I'll let you know. It's fine. 1775 01:16:16,708 --> 01:16:18,885 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, only certain to listen, 1776 01:16:18,433 --> 01:16:20,524 It's not a big deal. I'm not trying to be cagey. 1777 01:16:18,885 --> 01:16:19,885 okay. 1778 01:16:20,524 --> 01:16:21,895 There are a lot of people. Here's the thing. 1779 01:16:21,895 --> 01:16:24,046 People are like, well, you shouldn't talk too much about your 1780 01:16:24,046 --> 01:16:25,557 app yet because somebody could steal your idea. 1781 01:16:25,557 --> 01:16:27,408 Fine. Steal it like I could stop working on it. 1782 01:16:26,509 --> 01:16:27,509 Yes. 1783 01:16:27,408 --> 01:16:30,350 If someone else would make the only reason I'm doing this is no one else seemed 1784 01:16:30,350 --> 01:16:31,881 to care enough to build this in. 1785 01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:32,450 Right. Right. 1786 01:16:31,881 --> 01:16:34,473 What I wanted was I've been using the notes app. 1787 01:16:34,473 --> 01:16:35,473 Apple's 1788 01:16:35,065 --> 01:16:38,368 Stock notes app has been my default notes app for a very long time. 1789 01:16:36,249 --> 01:16:37,249 Yeah. 1790 01:16:38,368 --> 01:16:41,941 I've tried every notes app. If Apple had built these features in, 1791 01:16:41,941 --> 01:16:43,693 we wouldn't be having this conversation. 1792 01:16:43,693 --> 01:16:45,184 So it'd be a more boring podcast, 1793 01:16:44,291 --> 01:16:45,291 Alright. 1794 01:16:45,184 --> 01:16:46,705 but if my life would have been easier, 1795 01:16:46,705 --> 01:16:48,206 I wouldn't have spent two weeks. 1796 01:16:48,206 --> 01:16:50,919 Like I probably have 50 hours into this right now, 1797 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:49,800 Yeah. 1798 01:16:50,919 --> 01:16:52,600 which I know for a developer is like, 1799 01:16:51,290 --> 01:16:53,816 Right, we're working on it. That's not all I thinking. 1800 01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:57,484 that's like nothing, dude. But I've realized that like the key to making a good app, 1801 01:16:53,816 --> 01:16:54,816 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1802 01:16:57,484 --> 01:16:59,076 like I'm going to make some people mad. 1803 01:16:59,076 --> 01:17:02,649 Fine. But we had this conversation when we talked about like 1804 01:17:03,129 --> 01:17:07,451 the way Apple works, right? The key to making a good app is having a very good idea 1805 01:17:07,451 --> 01:17:09,322 and knowing what the edge cases are of like, 1806 01:17:09,322 --> 01:17:10,462 no, it shouldn't behave this way. 1807 01:17:10,462 --> 01:17:11,583 No, it should behave this way. 1808 01:17:11,128 --> 01:17:12,128 Right. Right. 1809 01:17:11,583 --> 01:17:14,004 No, this is what someone would expect it to do here. 1810 01:17:14,004 --> 01:17:18,055 No, stop doing it that way. I don't know that the key to making a good 1811 01:17:18,055 --> 01:17:21,567 app is being able to write a lot of code, 1812 01:17:21,567 --> 01:17:25,008 right? Because I could have just paid a person to write some code, 1813 01:17:25,008 --> 01:17:27,649 but all I wanted was an app for myself, 1814 01:17:25,081 --> 01:17:26,081 Right, right. 1815 01:17:27,649 --> 01:17:31,131 right? Now, like I said, before it goes out to the world, 1816 01:17:28,302 --> 01:17:29,302 Yeah, yeah, 1817 01:17:31,565 --> 01:17:35,347 I'll make sure someone who knows what's happening has looked at this app. 1818 01:17:34,010 --> 01:17:36,110 looks at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1819 01:17:36,110 --> 01:17:37,110 That's good. 1820 01:17:37,150 --> 01:17:39,530 All right. Well, I'm super excited for it to be out there, 1821 01:17:39,530 --> 01:17:41,750 but you'll hear about it again soon. 1822 01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:44,090 You'll about it again soon. So we're going to go record a bonus episode about 1823 01:17:44,090 --> 01:17:46,150 how I got scammed. And if you want to hear the bonus episode, 1824 01:17:46,150 --> 01:17:48,270 our pre-show where we talked about Jason Zappen, 1825 01:17:48,270 --> 01:17:49,430 talked about the name there too, 1826 01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:52,350 ad free version of this show, Primary Tech Daily. 1827 01:17:52,350 --> 01:17:55,790 You get all of that when you go to join.primarytech.fm. 1828 01:17:55,790 --> 01:17:57,650 I'll put a link down in the description. 1829 01:17:57,650 --> 01:17:58,870 If you want to get a discount, 1830 01:17:58,870 --> 01:18:01,870 $250 a month or $25 a year for that. 1831 01:18:01,870 --> 01:18:03,198 If you would like... 1832 01:18:03,311 --> 01:18:05,102 And can also watch us either on Apple Podcasts, 1833 01:18:05,102 --> 01:18:07,562 Spotify, or on YouTube. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. 1834 01:18:07,562 --> 01:18:09,023 We're almost at 4,000 subscribers, 1835 01:18:09,023 --> 01:18:10,884 which is really cool. So maybe help us get there. 1836 01:18:10,884 --> 01:18:12,362 Even if you don't watch it, just go over there and subscribe. 1837 01:18:12,362 --> 01:18:16,856 It'd be fun. And I'll leave us a five-star rating and review in Apple Podcasts. 1838 01:18:16,856 --> 01:18:19,516 I don't know. Just tell us something. 1839 01:18:19,516 --> 01:18:21,238 Tell us something about how you use your Apple stuff. 1840 01:18:21,238 --> 01:18:23,364 And we'll figure that out. But anyway, 1841 01:18:23,364 --> 01:18:24,379 I'm going go talk about how I was gamed. 1842 01:18:24,379 --> 01:18:26,460 But thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. 1843 01:18:26,460 --> 01:18:27,460 We'll catch you next time.