WEBVTT

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A new Windows Zero Day from Nightmare

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Eclipse on Patch Tuesday.

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LAPD is dropping their Flock contract.

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And new research into the privacy of top

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period trackers.

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All this and more coming up on This

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Week in Privacy, so stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the Privacy Guides community and

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this week's top stories in data privacy

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and cybersecurity.

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I am Nate,

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and with me this week is Jordan.

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How have you been, Jordan?

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I've been good and been looking forward to

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diving into some privacy and security news

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this week.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well, then let's jump right in.

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Let's talk about our first story,

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which is about Microsoft.

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So the headline says,

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Microsoft Zero Day Drops the Same Day

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Microsoft Releases Record Number of

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Patches.

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So for those of you who are blessed

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enough not to have to use Microsoft,

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or not to use Windows, I should say,

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Microsoft releases...

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Once a month,

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they release their patches all at once.

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And that includes everything.

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That includes feature fixes, bug fixes,

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security fixes.

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And they call it Patch Tuesday because I

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believe it's the first Tuesday of every

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month or maybe the second Tuesday,

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something like that.

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So this month's Patch Tuesday had...

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I want to say like five hundred give

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or take patches,

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which I did not realize was a record.

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I swear I thought they released like six

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hundred once upon a time,

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but apparently it was a record number of

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patches.

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And at the same time,

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let me let me go back a little

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bit and give you some context.

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We've covered this on this channel before.

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There is a security researcher who is

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going by the pseudonym of Nightmare

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Eclipse,

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and they

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They claim that they have disclosed a

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number of vulnerabilities to Microsoft,

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which Microsoft has ignored.

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They say that they've disclosed these

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vulnerabilities, they've proven they work,

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and Microsoft either brushes them off,

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or I think at one point Microsoft even

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got them removed off GitHub,

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got this person banned from GitHub.

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So...

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This person is kind of – understandably

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so,

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has kind of taken it personally and been

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like, okay, okay, fine.

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Then I'll play dirty.

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And so instead of doing the normal

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responsible disclosure is what it's called

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where you alert the company and then you

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give them about ninety days to fix it.

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And then you tell everybody like, hey,

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I found this vulnerability.

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Here's how it works.

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Now they're just –

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just going scorched earth,

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I guess you could say.

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And yeah, it's pretty wild.

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I feel like they had to have done

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this on purpose.

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Within hours of Microsoft releasing all

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their Patch Tuesday fixes,

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they released this new zero day,

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which according to this article is now

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sending Microsoft scrambling to fix it.

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So this new zero day is being called

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Hive Legacy.

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It's an escalation of privilege exploit

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that targets a vulnerability residing in

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the Windows user profile service.

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And it seems to me,

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as someone who is very open about not

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being super great with code,

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it seems to me like this requires...

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A little bit of legwork.

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This is definitely not, you know,

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I always mention that we talk about

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vulnerabilities sometimes that are like,

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you know, oh,

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you have to have access to the device

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for three hours and you have to plant

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malware on it.

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And it's like, really?

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Like,

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is that really a vulnerability at that

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point?

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This one sounds like it can be done

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remotely, but it does.

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It's a little bit more than just like

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point and click.

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So basically what you have to do.

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It says it allows users with limited

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system rights to compromise an admin

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user's account by modifying its classes

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registry hive,

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which is a resource that ensures the

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correct application opens when certain

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types of files are clicked in Windows

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Explorer.

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Again,

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some of this really goes over my head.

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So if it goes over your head,

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I apologize too.

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But for those of you who want the

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details, basically...

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They say the attacker can modify Windows

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registry associated with an admin account.

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The exploit requires the attacker to know

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another user's credentials.

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So that's the first step.

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It says the account need not be admin.

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I think they're talking about the

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attacker's account.

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So basically,

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let's say you have a computer that has

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an admin account and a regular user

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account.

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If you compromise the user account and you

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know the admin user's credentials,

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that's step one.

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um this is where i feel like it's

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starting to get a little bit iffy but

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it says an attacker must also know the

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username of a third account also with or

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without admin status on the machine so at

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minimum the account has to have three or

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excuse me the machine has to have three

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accounts

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which I'm going to go out there and

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say is probably not that unusual.

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I know at my last job,

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they gave us work computers and those were

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our laptops.

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Like we took them around with us

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everywhere.

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We used them to clock in,

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clock out teams, all that stuff.

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Those really only had our accounts on

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them,

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but I'm certain that there are a lot

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of places where it's far more normal to

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rotate desks and like multiple people log

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in and there's multiple accounts.

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And yeah,

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I am pretty sure that when somebody logs

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into a machine,

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the account kind of stays there until you

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go in and manually remove it.

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Don't quote me,

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but I'm pretty sure that's how Windows

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works.

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So in theory,

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I could see a lot of potential

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organizations where that is a realistic

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setup,

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where there's multiple accounts linked to

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one computer.

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However, again,

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you have to know the admin user's

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credentials.

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You have to know a third user's

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credentials.

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And actually,

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I didn't even think about this before,

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but now that I think about it,

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Oh, you know what?

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I take it back.

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Okay, I was about to say, like,

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if you know the admin user's credentials,

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doesn't that kind of get rid of it?

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But it says here that the account... Okay,

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so none of the accounts need to be

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admin.

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You just need to know three user

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credentials,

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and then you can break into the admin

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users.

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Okay.

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Sorry about that.

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I swear I read this article earlier,

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but we're going a little bit earlier than

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usual,

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so I haven't had as much time to

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process it.

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But yeah, so this...

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I mean,

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that's really kind of all it is here,

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is this researcher has disclosed this,

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again,

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hours after Windows dropped their updates,

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because they're probably trying to make a

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point and trying to piss off Microsoft on

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purpose, which is probably fair.

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And yeah,

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Microsoft said that they're aware of the

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vulnerability, they're investigating.

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They also noted their preference that

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reporters follow a coordinated disclosure

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policy, which again,

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this researcher is saying that...

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Microsoft has been ignoring,

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which is why they're not doing coordinated

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disclosure.

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And, uh,

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there are some instructions here on how to

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like, see if this affects you.

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But I think for the average everyday home

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user, um,

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this is probably not that big a deal.

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I guess maybe if you have like a

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family computer where each user has their

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own account,

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but if you just have like your own

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computer where it's just your user account

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or like your user account,

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your admin account,

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which is one trick that I think we

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recommend then, um,

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that probably reduces the likelihood of

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this attack.

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So real quick before I turn it over

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to Jordan, some people are asking,

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what are we talking about?

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We're talking about Windows Zero Day,

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a vulnerability that was dropped hours

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after Microsoft released their patch

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Tuesday.

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So yeah,

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I was kind of explaining how that works.

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But Jordan,

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did I miss anything in this story?

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Or did anything jump out at you that

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you wanted to discuss?

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I think the most important thing about

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this story,

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like I think you did a great job

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of like explaining the attack stuff.

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I think, you know,

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I don't really have any more to add

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on that, but I do think, you know,

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it does highlight Microsoft's kind of,

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they're kind of tricky to work with,

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right?

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Like this,

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this person submitted this patch to

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Microsoft before they were ignored and now

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they've decided not to do that, but it's,

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you know,

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I think it kind of shows that Microsoft

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doesn't respect people that are submitting

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these vulnerabilities and they're not

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taking them as seriously as they should.

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I think, you know,

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obviously there's issues with not doing

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coordinated disclosure because now there's

00:08:42.403 --> 00:08:43.764
possibly a bunch of people who are at

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risk of this and Microsoft kind of has

00:08:46.427 --> 00:08:47.868
to scramble to find a fix.

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So that is a concern as well.

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But I also don't really blame this person

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because, you know,

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They probably are.

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I don't think someone would do this out

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of nowhere.

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I think they probably would have been

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trying to get Microsoft to fix this for

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a while and they kept ignoring them.

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So I don't know.

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I just think if Microsoft embraced these

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people a bit better and, you know,

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instead of being kind of antagonistic

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towards them,

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instead they decided to, you know,

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work with them or, you know,

00:09:21.974 --> 00:09:23.835
patch the things that they're submitting,

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I think that'd be like a much healthier

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dynamic there.

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It's just, you know,

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this is like another time where we've

00:09:31.517 --> 00:09:33.758
heard Microsoft just not being good with

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vulnerability disclosures.

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I think a couple of weeks ago,

00:09:37.339 --> 00:09:37.960
like you were saying,

00:09:37.980 --> 00:09:39.259
there was this story about like

00:09:40.003 --> 00:09:42.663
Microsoft banning someone from every

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disclosure platform and everything um

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because they you know submitted something

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that was in Microsoft's view you know used

00:09:52.586 --> 00:09:55.727
for like hacking and such or criminal

00:09:55.768 --> 00:09:58.668
activity um when you know it doesn't

00:09:58.687 --> 00:10:00.308
really matter I think you should just be

00:10:00.349 --> 00:10:02.470
fixing the vulnerability if it exists um

00:10:02.509 --> 00:10:03.690
it doesn't really matter where it's come

00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:03.909
from

00:10:04.509 --> 00:10:05.610
or anything like that.

00:10:05.691 --> 00:10:07.731
So very disappointing stuff from

00:10:07.772 --> 00:10:08.331
Microsoft,

00:10:08.451 --> 00:10:11.413
but Microsoft is just disappointing

00:10:11.634 --> 00:10:11.994
anyway.

00:10:12.134 --> 00:10:14.774
So it's not really any different from the

00:10:14.855 --> 00:10:15.916
usual, I guess.

00:10:18.456 --> 00:10:18.756
Yeah.

00:10:19.057 --> 00:10:20.177
Yeah, that's true.

00:10:22.337 --> 00:10:24.078
Yeah, I actually went to go look up,

00:10:24.099 --> 00:10:25.399
because I know we've covered this story in

00:10:25.419 --> 00:10:25.919
the past,

00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.841
and I looked up Nightmare Eclipse in Brave

00:10:29.881 --> 00:10:30.201
Search,

00:10:30.822 --> 00:10:32.243
and there's no shortage of articles.

00:10:32.302 --> 00:10:33.803
I think their last big disclosure was

00:10:33.844 --> 00:10:34.745
called Rogue Planet.

00:10:35.345 --> 00:10:36.826
So, I mean,

00:10:37.385 --> 00:10:38.626
if you guys missed that story,

00:10:39.047 --> 00:10:40.888
definitely go ahead and check that out.

00:10:41.708 --> 00:10:41.948
Yeah.

00:10:43.889 --> 00:10:45.029
Yeah.

00:10:45.049 --> 00:10:45.331
I don't know.

00:10:45.350 --> 00:10:46.650
I don't think I have too much to

00:10:46.711 --> 00:10:47.292
add to this one.

00:10:47.572 --> 00:10:48.392
It's pretty unfortunate.

00:10:48.412 --> 00:10:49.173
Yeah, it's really...

00:10:50.384 --> 00:10:50.683
I don't know.

00:10:50.703 --> 00:10:50.823
I mean,

00:10:51.065 --> 00:10:54.807
I want to give Microsoft some credit in

00:10:54.847 --> 00:10:56.690
the sense that they've always had

00:10:57.870 --> 00:10:59.572
vulnerability issues.

00:11:01.533 --> 00:11:03.296
There's always hundreds of things getting

00:11:03.336 --> 00:11:05.097
patched in these Patch Tuesdays.

00:11:05.138 --> 00:11:06.219
And again,

00:11:06.318 --> 00:11:08.280
some of them are just regular bugs.

00:11:08.380 --> 00:11:10.322
Some of them are just feature things.

00:11:10.842 --> 00:11:12.264
They're not all security updates.

00:11:12.283 --> 00:11:13.325
It's not like there's hundreds and

00:11:13.345 --> 00:11:14.946
hundreds of security updates every time.

00:11:15.066 --> 00:11:15.666
I don't think.

00:11:15.885 --> 00:11:16.606
Don't quote me on that.

00:11:17.226 --> 00:11:18.006
But yeah,

00:11:18.288 --> 00:11:20.308
they're definitely not doing great the

00:11:20.349 --> 00:11:22.190
last couple of years to the point where

00:11:22.929 --> 00:11:24.490
a while back they had to admit.

00:11:24.571 --> 00:11:26.032
What do they say that like Windows is

00:11:26.072 --> 00:11:28.653
quote unquote fundamentally broken and

00:11:28.673 --> 00:11:29.715
they promise that they're going to go

00:11:29.754 --> 00:11:31.556
ahead and try to fix it.

00:11:31.676 --> 00:11:31.855
So.

00:11:32.961 --> 00:11:33.361
Yeah,

00:11:33.542 --> 00:11:35.923
I think we could endlessly rag on

00:11:35.964 --> 00:11:36.705
Microsoft.

00:11:37.105 --> 00:11:38.947
And I think, you know,

00:11:38.986 --> 00:11:40.128
maybe people would enjoy that.

00:11:40.207 --> 00:11:42.649
But I think, you know, unfortunately,

00:11:42.671 --> 00:11:43.451
in the next story,

00:11:43.630 --> 00:11:45.572
we're also going to rag on Microsoft again

00:11:45.613 --> 00:11:46.094
a little bit.

00:11:47.414 --> 00:11:49.397
But before we get to that,

00:11:49.476 --> 00:11:50.158
I did want to say...

00:11:53.302 --> 00:11:57.927
that this was, you know,

00:11:57.966 --> 00:11:58.687
something that you,

00:11:58.888 --> 00:11:59.607
you didn't mention this,

00:11:59.668 --> 00:12:01.389
but there was in the article,

00:12:01.429 --> 00:12:03.650
it mentions that Kevin Beaumont created a

00:12:03.692 --> 00:12:04.772
detection script.

00:12:05.533 --> 00:12:07.033
So you can check,

00:12:07.094 --> 00:12:08.115
if you check this article out,

00:12:08.134 --> 00:12:09.115
which will be in the newsletter,

00:12:09.615 --> 00:12:12.097
it will include a link to the detection

00:12:12.138 --> 00:12:12.479
script.

00:12:13.278 --> 00:12:16.322
Kevin Beaumont is like a really like very

00:12:16.381 --> 00:12:18.583
well-known like security person.

00:12:19.384 --> 00:12:21.524
um so definitely check that out if you

00:12:21.544 --> 00:12:23.706
think you might be affected obviously like

00:12:23.765 --> 00:12:25.527
nate said it is kind of a bit

00:12:25.567 --> 00:12:27.567
more rare because you need so many

00:12:28.087 --> 00:12:31.849
accounts right um so just keep that in

00:12:31.869 --> 00:12:33.590
mind but i think that was kind of

00:12:33.649 --> 00:12:35.169
kind of interesting i'm sure that's going

00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:36.831
to be very useful for people working in

00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:40.832
like an enterprise and like business areas

00:12:40.893 --> 00:12:41.393
where you know

00:12:42.900 --> 00:12:43.981
people do silly things.

00:12:44.543 --> 00:12:47.885
So there was a question here from Iceman

00:12:47.986 --> 00:12:48.826
Co UK.

00:12:51.750 --> 00:12:54.312
Why not people just use Linux instead

00:12:54.352 --> 00:12:54.594
then?

00:12:54.774 --> 00:12:56.174
There's still so many people using Windows

00:12:56.215 --> 00:12:57.336
despite all its flaws.

00:13:00.142 --> 00:13:02.225
I mean, not everyone really has a choice,

00:13:02.284 --> 00:13:02.565
right?

00:13:02.745 --> 00:13:04.528
Like it depends on the software that you

00:13:04.648 --> 00:13:07.812
use and it depends on your situation,

00:13:07.871 --> 00:13:08.072
right?

00:13:08.091 --> 00:13:10.774
Like if you're working for a company,

00:13:10.815 --> 00:13:12.376
they're not going to probably like you

00:13:12.437 --> 00:13:14.279
using Linux because a bunch of stuff isn't

00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:14.820
going to work.

00:13:15.660 --> 00:13:17.461
um or you know if it's a personal

00:13:17.481 --> 00:13:19.081
computer maybe you've got programs that

00:13:19.142 --> 00:13:21.883
only work on windows um stuff like that

00:13:21.923 --> 00:13:25.384
we don't really um we have recommendations

00:13:25.583 --> 00:13:28.004
and you know that's up to you to

00:13:28.024 --> 00:13:30.725
follow those and we do recommend people to

00:13:30.806 --> 00:13:33.386
use linux but not everyone has the ability

00:13:33.427 --> 00:13:35.467
to do that so we just try and

00:13:35.488 --> 00:13:37.567
keep like everyone like up to date on

00:13:37.607 --> 00:13:38.808
what's happening um

00:13:40.326 --> 00:13:41.727
and talk about these issues.

00:13:42.187 --> 00:13:44.690
Hopefully we bring in some Windows users

00:13:44.750 --> 00:13:47.350
onto this and they're aware of this issue

00:13:48.091 --> 00:13:51.134
and maybe they would consider switching or

00:13:51.153 --> 00:13:52.394
something like that in the future.

00:13:52.533 --> 00:13:55.975
But that's all we can really do here.

00:13:57.017 --> 00:13:57.116
Yeah,

00:13:57.136 --> 00:13:58.278
I just want to add to that that

00:13:59.317 --> 00:14:00.019
unfortunately,

00:14:00.139 --> 00:14:02.139
a lot of privacy tools are really lagging

00:14:02.179 --> 00:14:03.461
behind when it comes to

00:14:06.163 --> 00:14:07.085
device management.

00:14:07.264 --> 00:14:09.947
So I'm pretty sure the vast majority of

00:14:10.027 --> 00:14:12.488
windows usage is corporate usage.

00:14:12.768 --> 00:14:12.869
Um,

00:14:12.908 --> 00:14:14.089
not that there aren't plenty of windows

00:14:14.269 --> 00:14:16.551
personal users as well, but I remember,

00:14:16.831 --> 00:14:17.171
um,

00:14:17.230 --> 00:14:19.452
like there was a huge jump in users

00:14:20.113 --> 00:14:21.234
when we went, uh,

00:14:22.095 --> 00:14:26.597
when we went from windows ten to eleven,

00:14:26.658 --> 00:14:28.599
like as ten started to get deprecated

00:14:28.958 --> 00:14:30.320
because that's when all the corporate

00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:32.160
environments started migrating to eleven

00:14:32.280 --> 00:14:33.261
and all of a sudden you saw like

00:14:33.282 --> 00:14:34.763
a huge jump in the numbers.

00:14:35.524 --> 00:14:35.683
Um,

00:14:36.837 --> 00:14:38.958
And it's – I guess my point is

00:14:38.979 --> 00:14:42.000
like don't – the number of corporate users

00:14:42.100 --> 00:14:43.759
is a significant number of Windows users.

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:44.860
And because of that,

00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:46.681
that means a lot of those corporate users

00:14:47.221 --> 00:14:50.602
need to have corporate IT controls.

00:14:50.923 --> 00:14:53.183
They need to have like endpoint detection

00:14:53.224 --> 00:14:55.104
systems and like they need to have like

00:14:55.124 --> 00:14:56.884
the controls that block off certain

00:14:56.924 --> 00:14:58.565
websites, certain malicious domains, blah,

00:14:58.585 --> 00:14:59.245
blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:14:59.745 --> 00:15:00.466
And –

00:15:00.645 --> 00:15:02.466
Linux is just fundamentally lacking a lot

00:15:02.486 --> 00:15:03.048
of those things.

00:15:03.107 --> 00:15:05.350
So Linux, for the most part,

00:15:05.710 --> 00:15:07.191
I think there are some distros that are

00:15:07.230 --> 00:15:08.192
starting to solve this issue.

00:15:08.631 --> 00:15:09.993
But at least up until recently,

00:15:10.052 --> 00:15:11.854
Linux hasn't really had tools that make it

00:15:11.933 --> 00:15:13.735
good for large corporate environments.

00:15:14.375 --> 00:15:15.557
And unfortunately,

00:15:16.177 --> 00:15:17.418
in large corporate environments,

00:15:17.958 --> 00:15:19.860
we simply cannot trust everyone to...

00:15:21.181 --> 00:15:22.802
practice good digital hygiene,

00:15:22.863 --> 00:15:24.344
like being careful what phishing links

00:15:24.364 --> 00:15:25.465
they click and stuff like that.

00:15:25.965 --> 00:15:27.886
Otherwise we would not be talking,

00:15:28.047 --> 00:15:29.388
I would not be publishing a data breach

00:15:29.607 --> 00:15:31.309
roundup every single week because the vast

00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:32.571
majority of them are done via like

00:15:32.591 --> 00:15:33.792
phishing attacks and stuff like that.

00:15:34.373 --> 00:15:36.173
So it's one of those things that like

00:15:36.715 --> 00:15:37.796
corporate really needs this.

00:15:38.606 --> 00:15:40.227
Linux is not meeting that need.

00:15:41.028 --> 00:15:42.990
And I'm also thinking of like parental

00:15:43.010 --> 00:15:44.051
controls on like graphene.

00:15:44.110 --> 00:15:45.413
I don't think graphene has any parental

00:15:45.432 --> 00:15:45.773
controls.

00:15:45.852 --> 00:15:46.894
I'm not a parent, so I don't know,

00:15:47.394 --> 00:15:48.394
but just things like that,

00:15:48.434 --> 00:15:50.557
things that as an individual user,

00:15:50.596 --> 00:15:51.517
you're like, I don't need that.

00:15:51.596 --> 00:15:52.118
I don't care.

00:15:52.437 --> 00:15:53.499
But in a corporate environment,

00:15:53.578 --> 00:15:54.840
all of a sudden the math is completely

00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:55.139
different.

00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:55.640
And you're like, no,

00:15:55.780 --> 00:15:57.261
I absolutely need this.

00:15:57.881 --> 00:15:58.982
And Linux doesn't have that.

00:15:59.102 --> 00:15:59.303
And,

00:16:00.577 --> 00:16:01.518
Just to add on, like you said,

00:16:01.538 --> 00:16:03.019
like sometimes there's very specific

00:16:03.058 --> 00:16:03.958
software that like,

00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:06.240
like me as an audio guy,

00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:08.140
ninety percent of my plugins are not on

00:16:08.181 --> 00:16:08.500
Linux,

00:16:08.561 --> 00:16:10.542
which unfortunately is kind of like a it's

00:16:10.562 --> 00:16:12.701
a negative feedback loop because I'm not

00:16:12.741 --> 00:16:14.503
on Linux because my plugins don't work.

00:16:14.562 --> 00:16:16.183
Therefore, there's nobody on Linux saying,

00:16:16.244 --> 00:16:17.464
hey, make this plugin work.

00:16:17.524 --> 00:16:18.004
So therefore,

00:16:18.043 --> 00:16:19.605
they don't make them Linux friendly.

00:16:20.304 --> 00:16:21.725
And I don't know how to fix that.

00:16:21.765 --> 00:16:22.306
But yeah, there's.

00:16:23.726 --> 00:16:25.226
There's a lot of reasons people are still

00:16:25.327 --> 00:16:26.868
not using Linux, unfortunately.

00:16:26.908 --> 00:16:27.768
There is still a gap.

00:16:28.048 --> 00:16:29.149
It's a very niche gap, I think,

00:16:29.168 --> 00:16:31.208
for the average person at home who's just

00:16:31.509 --> 00:16:33.129
surfing the web, checking their email,

00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:34.610
playing some games.

00:16:34.909 --> 00:16:35.990
I think Linux does work,

00:16:36.071 --> 00:16:37.630
but unfortunately,

00:16:37.691 --> 00:16:38.571
for a lot of the niche stuff,

00:16:38.591 --> 00:16:40.432
there's still a huge gap there.

00:16:41.392 --> 00:16:42.532
So I just wanted to throw that out

00:16:42.552 --> 00:16:42.672
there.

00:16:44.533 --> 00:16:45.732
And I'm also looking at the website,

00:16:45.753 --> 00:16:47.494
trying to see... We do recommend...

00:16:48.626 --> 00:16:49.568
Oh, operating systems.

00:16:49.629 --> 00:16:49.889
Yes,

00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:54.457
we do recommend certain Linux distros on

00:16:54.477 --> 00:16:54.999
the website.

00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:58.666
So yeah.

00:16:58.706 --> 00:16:59.928
Anyways, yeah, that's all I got.

00:17:01.206 --> 00:17:01.525
Cool.

00:17:01.586 --> 00:17:01.885
Yeah,

00:17:01.905 --> 00:17:04.107
I guess we can dive into this next

00:17:04.147 --> 00:17:04.528
story.

00:17:04.988 --> 00:17:05.588
Like we said,

00:17:05.608 --> 00:17:07.430
we're going to drag on Microsoft again.

00:17:08.450 --> 00:17:09.570
But yeah,

00:17:09.590 --> 00:17:12.313
this is sort of a different thing going

00:17:12.373 --> 00:17:12.472
on.

00:17:13.212 --> 00:17:14.814
This story is from IGN.

00:17:15.894 --> 00:17:17.375
Microsoft restores player's

00:17:23.020 --> 00:17:24.981
Microsoft has restored a player's account

00:17:25.103 --> 00:17:26.824
access to his twenty five year old

00:17:26.884 --> 00:17:27.223
account,

00:17:27.243 --> 00:17:29.766
which contain photos of his son and

00:17:29.826 --> 00:17:31.626
thousands of dollars worth of games.

00:17:32.268 --> 00:17:35.210
This is this isn't just any twenty five

00:17:35.250 --> 00:17:35.710
year old.

00:17:35.829 --> 00:17:38.511
This is a streamer named Joshua Kane

00:17:39.692 --> 00:17:40.513
basically shared.

00:17:42.701 --> 00:17:44.462
that on July sixteenth,

00:17:45.104 --> 00:17:47.025
Xbox had reached out to him and restored

00:17:47.125 --> 00:17:48.905
access to the account which was previously

00:17:48.945 --> 00:17:51.748
suspended after being hijacked by a hacker

00:17:51.988 --> 00:17:52.828
a few days prior,

00:17:53.229 --> 00:17:55.830
while he was extremely happy and thanked

00:17:55.990 --> 00:17:58.291
Microsoft for its help recovering his

00:17:58.332 --> 00:18:00.393
account and all the invaluable information

00:18:00.953 --> 00:18:01.413
therein.

00:18:01.753 --> 00:18:04.076
He levied some criticisms toward the brand

00:18:04.115 --> 00:18:05.217
for its initial response,

00:18:05.576 --> 00:18:07.837
claiming it had told him the suspension

00:18:08.219 --> 00:18:10.299
was irreversible at first.

00:18:11.372 --> 00:18:14.515
So yeah, this is, uh,

00:18:15.234 --> 00:18:16.717
kind of an interesting story, right?

00:18:16.757 --> 00:18:19.259
So I think it's the most important thing

00:18:19.298 --> 00:18:21.941
to note here is, uh, this person,

00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:24.803
Joshua Kane, um,

00:18:24.903 --> 00:18:27.684
isn't particularly famous, I would say.

00:18:28.165 --> 00:18:29.207
Um,

00:18:29.267 --> 00:18:31.228
obviously he has some sort of following,

00:18:31.268 --> 00:18:32.548
like I think a couple of thousand

00:18:32.568 --> 00:18:35.332
followers on Twitter and stuff.

00:18:35.372 --> 00:18:36.913
So like not super popular,

00:18:37.012 --> 00:18:39.974
but he definitely has more, more, more,

00:18:40.435 --> 00:18:40.536
um,

00:18:42.906 --> 00:18:46.529
more uh clout than the average person i

00:18:46.549 --> 00:18:51.133
would say so you know this is um

00:18:52.816 --> 00:18:54.297
kind of unfortunate if any of you have

00:18:54.376 --> 00:18:56.038
ever had this issue before like you know

00:18:56.058 --> 00:18:57.500
you've had an account compromised or

00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.102
something and it was used for nefarious

00:19:00.142 --> 00:19:02.284
purposes it's really hard to get access to

00:19:02.324 --> 00:19:05.046
it again um and especially you know an

00:19:05.086 --> 00:19:06.846
account like that Microsoft account it can

00:19:06.886 --> 00:19:11.069
contain a lot of data that can be

00:19:11.089 --> 00:19:12.551
kind of important um

00:19:14.869 --> 00:19:17.152
So it's good this guy got his account

00:19:17.192 --> 00:19:20.273
back, but it did take three days and,

00:19:20.334 --> 00:19:20.594
you know,

00:19:20.673 --> 00:19:22.535
public posts on Twitter to get their

00:19:22.575 --> 00:19:25.017
attention and to get them to kind of

00:19:25.457 --> 00:19:26.478
reverse their decision.

00:19:27.117 --> 00:19:29.339
I think the most important thing about

00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:35.262
this situation is that it is not a

00:19:35.282 --> 00:19:37.545
good idea to centralize all your data into

00:19:37.664 --> 00:19:38.965
one place and

00:19:40.874 --> 00:19:44.174
if you put everything into a singular, um,

00:19:44.295 --> 00:19:45.994
account like this, then, you know,

00:19:46.035 --> 00:19:46.855
if it gets hacked,

00:19:46.895 --> 00:19:48.476
then you're going to lose a ridiculous

00:19:48.496 --> 00:19:50.056
amount of data because you've stored so

00:19:50.096 --> 00:19:50.757
much in there.

00:19:51.576 --> 00:19:54.156
So I think that's like one thing we

00:19:54.176 --> 00:19:54.978
can take from this.

00:19:55.978 --> 00:19:58.298
Um, I guess I'll throw it to you,

00:19:58.318 --> 00:19:59.278
like, do you have any,

00:20:00.138 --> 00:20:02.079
any thoughts and like extra things that,

00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:03.640
that I didn't cover yet?

00:20:06.042 --> 00:20:06.163
Well,

00:20:06.182 --> 00:20:07.284
the only thing I went and found is

00:20:07.324 --> 00:20:07.864
Twitch account.

00:20:07.903 --> 00:20:08.243
Apparently,

00:20:08.263 --> 00:20:09.723
he's got eight point five thousand

00:20:09.743 --> 00:20:10.223
followers.

00:20:10.505 --> 00:20:11.144
So, yeah,

00:20:11.184 --> 00:20:14.705
not not he's not single handedly keeping

00:20:14.746 --> 00:20:15.546
Twitch afloat,

00:20:15.766 --> 00:20:17.486
but it looks like he's pretty consistent

00:20:17.506 --> 00:20:18.547
with the streaming, I would guess.

00:20:18.626 --> 00:20:22.028
But yeah, I mean, my my thought was,

00:20:22.087 --> 00:20:22.647
well, first of all,

00:20:22.688 --> 00:20:24.989
I do want to I do appreciate this

00:20:25.028 --> 00:20:26.209
guy because.

00:20:27.596 --> 00:20:28.538
I think a lot of the time we

00:20:28.577 --> 00:20:30.559
read these stories and they're just like,

00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.441
oh, thank you for Microsoft for helping,

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:34.143
working with me to get my account back

00:20:34.163 --> 00:20:35.263
and basically sucking up.

00:20:35.723 --> 00:20:36.944
And it's really cool to see him be

00:20:36.984 --> 00:20:38.787
like, hey, I am appreciative,

00:20:38.807 --> 00:20:39.647
but also like,

00:20:41.218 --> 00:20:41.679
He said here,

00:20:41.719 --> 00:20:43.019
it's unfortunate that such a big company

00:20:43.038 --> 00:20:44.180
can bring your account back if you ask

00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:44.500
them to.

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.740
The way it all went to me is

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.040
a little bit shady because it's not that

00:20:47.060 --> 00:20:48.060
they can't bring your account.

00:20:48.300 --> 00:20:49.721
They won't bring back your account if

00:20:49.741 --> 00:20:51.282
you're a nobody, which is true.

00:20:51.363 --> 00:20:54.604
You shouldn't have to shame a company and

00:20:54.644 --> 00:20:58.506
go viral and be a big-name person in

00:20:58.605 --> 00:21:00.487
order to get this kind of treatment.

00:21:00.507 --> 00:21:01.247
It's really crap.

00:21:01.446 --> 00:21:02.907
Yeah.

00:21:04.286 --> 00:21:05.866
Yeah, I think other than that,

00:21:05.926 --> 00:21:07.648
you really hit kind of my other big

00:21:07.689 --> 00:21:08.108
point,

00:21:09.049 --> 00:21:11.152
which is I've been sending this to friends

00:21:11.172 --> 00:21:11.652
and family,

00:21:11.771 --> 00:21:14.013
especially I've mentioned my sister had

00:21:14.054 --> 00:21:15.115
her first kid recently.

00:21:15.776 --> 00:21:18.317
And kind of sending this is like, hey,

00:21:18.978 --> 00:21:20.839
where are you storing pictures of your

00:21:20.859 --> 00:21:21.160
kid?

00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:23.862
Like what happens if that gets deleted?

00:21:23.882 --> 00:21:26.785
And I'm thinking of several years ago,

00:21:27.444 --> 00:21:28.685
we were talking about this before we

00:21:28.705 --> 00:21:29.366
started streaming.

00:21:29.906 --> 00:21:30.748
There was a guy who...

00:21:31.989 --> 00:21:34.490
His his toddler son started to develop a

00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:35.691
rash in his genital area.

00:21:36.310 --> 00:21:37.270
And so his doctor,

00:21:37.310 --> 00:21:38.592
I believe this was during lockdown.

00:21:38.632 --> 00:21:39.832
And I think that's why his doctor said

00:21:39.852 --> 00:21:41.053
this, but I could be remembering wrong.

00:21:42.012 --> 00:21:43.554
But his doctor basically said, like, well,

00:21:43.594 --> 00:21:44.253
keep an eye on it.

00:21:44.294 --> 00:21:45.234
See if it grows bigger.

00:21:46.154 --> 00:21:47.816
I think even told him specifically, like,

00:21:47.855 --> 00:21:48.655
take some pictures.

00:21:49.396 --> 00:21:51.436
And, you know, if if it gets worse,

00:21:51.477 --> 00:21:52.698
we'll we'll take a look at it.

00:21:53.258 --> 00:21:54.838
And so he started taking pictures with his

00:21:54.878 --> 00:21:56.700
phone and the pictures sync to Google

00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.119
Drive.

00:21:57.619 --> 00:21:59.541
Google closed his account and turned

00:21:59.622 --> 00:22:01.482
everything over to the police and said

00:22:01.502 --> 00:22:02.324
that it was CSAM,

00:22:03.305 --> 00:22:04.766
which is child sexual abuse material,

00:22:04.786 --> 00:22:05.405
for those who don't know.

00:22:06.426 --> 00:22:08.548
The police investigated and cleared this

00:22:08.588 --> 00:22:10.789
guy and told Google, like, no, it's fine.

00:22:10.910 --> 00:22:11.951
Everything's above board.

00:22:11.971 --> 00:22:13.071
Like, this is a medical thing.

00:22:13.451 --> 00:22:15.173
And Google still would not reinstate his

00:22:15.213 --> 00:22:15.493
account.

00:22:15.554 --> 00:22:16.775
He actually had to get his data back

00:22:16.835 --> 00:22:17.536
from the cops.

00:22:17.615 --> 00:22:19.457
Like, the cops were basically like,

00:22:19.817 --> 00:22:20.377
that sucks.

00:22:20.417 --> 00:22:21.218
We don't know what to do.

00:22:22.138 --> 00:22:23.380
Here's what Google gave us,

00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:24.361
if that helps any.

00:22:24.881 --> 00:22:25.060
So...

00:22:25.982 --> 00:22:27.700
Yeah, I mean, it's really hard not to...

00:22:29.816 --> 00:22:30.997
It kind of sucks because everything is so

00:22:31.057 --> 00:22:31.557
digital now.

00:22:31.636 --> 00:22:32.637
You can either self-host,

00:22:32.678 --> 00:22:33.978
which is a huge commitment,

00:22:34.057 --> 00:22:35.159
especially if you're going to self-host

00:22:35.179 --> 00:22:35.598
everything,

00:22:35.659 --> 00:22:37.240
like all your own photos and calendar and

00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:38.161
email and everything,

00:22:38.780 --> 00:22:40.842
or you can rely on someone else.

00:22:40.902 --> 00:22:42.182
But even these encrypted services,

00:22:42.202 --> 00:22:42.423
you know,

00:22:42.462 --> 00:22:44.943
like if I'm relying on ProtonDrive and

00:22:44.983 --> 00:22:46.585
Proton decides to ban me for whatever

00:22:46.625 --> 00:22:48.226
reason, what do I do?

00:22:48.425 --> 00:22:48.905
So, I mean,

00:22:49.125 --> 00:22:50.666
it's really important just to keep backups

00:22:50.707 --> 00:22:51.807
and ask yourself that question.

00:22:51.827 --> 00:22:53.128
Like, if this goes away today,

00:22:53.868 --> 00:22:54.970
what's my redundancy?

00:22:55.069 --> 00:22:55.869
What's my safety?

00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:56.410
You know, if...

00:22:57.730 --> 00:22:58.811
I think about that a lot with signal.

00:22:58.892 --> 00:23:00.393
I've got my whole family using signal.

00:23:00.593 --> 00:23:02.535
If end-to-end encryption gets banned and

00:23:02.575 --> 00:23:04.076
signal pulls out of the U S which

00:23:04.175 --> 00:23:05.356
would be weird because signals based in

00:23:05.376 --> 00:23:05.676
the U S,

00:23:05.696 --> 00:23:06.258
but you know what I mean?

00:23:06.298 --> 00:23:06.458
Like,

00:23:07.038 --> 00:23:08.019
where am I going to move my family

00:23:08.058 --> 00:23:08.278
to?

00:23:08.459 --> 00:23:11.261
If, um, if simple login goes away,

00:23:11.382 --> 00:23:12.423
where am I going to move my email

00:23:12.502 --> 00:23:14.624
aliasing to just at least have those plans

00:23:14.644 --> 00:23:15.025
in place?

00:23:15.085 --> 00:23:16.105
I think is what I'm getting at.

00:23:16.185 --> 00:23:18.146
Cause it's, uh, like he said,

00:23:18.287 --> 00:23:19.248
if you're not a big name,

00:23:19.268 --> 00:23:20.548
you're probably not getting your crap

00:23:20.568 --> 00:23:21.809
back.

00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:22.971
So yeah.

00:23:23.050 --> 00:23:23.211
Yeah.

00:23:24.636 --> 00:23:25.218
Definitely.

00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:28.661
I mean, yeah, this original,

00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:31.483
like the tweets that Joshua Kane posted

00:23:31.523 --> 00:23:34.366
were getting, you know, hundreds of,

00:23:35.048 --> 00:23:37.369
hundreds of boosts and likes and stuff.

00:23:37.390 --> 00:23:39.132
So I think it's,

00:23:40.413 --> 00:23:44.798
looks like his original post was ten

00:23:44.837 --> 00:23:46.779
thousand retweets.

00:23:47.958 --> 00:23:50.459
So, and eighty two thousand likes.

00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:53.058
So just just so we know the scale

00:23:53.118 --> 00:23:54.740
of this, it kind of blew up.

00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:56.319
So, you know,

00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.560
if your post doesn't blow up on Twitter,

00:23:58.580 --> 00:24:00.260
then I kind of doubt that you'll get

00:24:00.280 --> 00:24:01.821
your account back, which sucks.

00:24:04.521 --> 00:24:06.403
I can kind of understand why it did

00:24:06.462 --> 00:24:07.063
so well, though,

00:24:07.103 --> 00:24:08.803
because his original post,

00:24:08.823 --> 00:24:09.644
I don't know if we can show it

00:24:09.683 --> 00:24:10.263
on the screen.

00:24:10.284 --> 00:24:12.963
Yeah, give me a second.

00:24:14.244 --> 00:24:15.164
I can go find it here.

00:24:15.915 --> 00:24:16.036
uh,

00:24:16.096 --> 00:24:21.319
Microsoft deleted my account and OneDrive

00:24:21.601 --> 00:24:23.422
and it's like all in capitals when with

00:24:23.461 --> 00:24:24.303
deleted and stuff.

00:24:24.343 --> 00:24:25.903
So I can understand why, like, you know,

00:24:25.983 --> 00:24:27.144
people saw this and were like,

00:24:27.204 --> 00:24:29.027
oh my gosh, that's like awful.

00:24:30.146 --> 00:24:30.327
Um,

00:24:31.147 --> 00:24:32.409
it seems like it resonated with a lot

00:24:32.429 --> 00:24:32.869
of people.

00:24:33.210 --> 00:24:38.453
So, um, yeah, it's, it's definitely,

00:24:38.493 --> 00:24:38.894
there it is.

00:24:38.933 --> 00:24:39.134
Yeah.

00:24:39.214 --> 00:24:39.454
Cool.

00:24:40.296 --> 00:24:42.416
Um, yeah.

00:24:42.457 --> 00:24:43.718
So it's, it's interesting.

00:24:44.378 --> 00:24:44.439
Um,

00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:45.953
that this happened,

00:24:46.153 --> 00:24:49.644
but also kind of a special person in

00:24:49.664 --> 00:24:51.269
a very special circumstances.

00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.721
it is kind of funny when something starts

00:24:55.801 --> 00:24:56.942
damaging your brand,

00:24:57.002 --> 00:24:59.724
then suddenly the company is like running

00:24:59.785 --> 00:25:02.907
out to make special arrangements.

00:25:03.647 --> 00:25:06.530
So really this should be something that's

00:25:07.791 --> 00:25:09.712
handled better by Microsoft in the future.

00:25:10.733 --> 00:25:11.914
But like Nate said, you know,

00:25:11.974 --> 00:25:12.615
make backups,

00:25:12.675 --> 00:25:14.356
don't store all your baby photos in one

00:25:14.396 --> 00:25:17.180
drive and expect it to just be there

00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:17.720
forever.

00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:19.981
Like three, two, one, three, two,

00:25:20.082 --> 00:25:21.042
one backups, everybody.

00:25:24.659 --> 00:25:28.720
yeah absolutely um yeah what is that ten

00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.740
thousand almost ten thousand posts reposts

00:25:32.221 --> 00:25:34.181
eighty two thousand likes a reach of five

00:25:34.201 --> 00:25:36.401
point seven million forty seven hundred

00:25:36.461 --> 00:25:39.922
comments so yeah i mean i don't have

00:25:39.961 --> 00:25:41.843
kids but thousands of dollars spent on

00:25:41.903 --> 00:25:46.443
games yeah yeah good point so that that

00:25:46.463 --> 00:25:48.304
would be demoralizing for sure

00:25:50.384 --> 00:25:51.144
Alrighty.

00:25:51.163 --> 00:25:51.305
Well,

00:25:51.325 --> 00:25:52.525
if that's all we have on that story,

00:25:52.625 --> 00:25:54.646
I think we'll go ahead and move on

00:25:54.686 --> 00:25:55.906
to the next one here,

00:25:56.627 --> 00:25:58.209
which is actually some good news.

00:25:58.469 --> 00:26:00.390
Some rare, rare good news,

00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:06.034
which is that the LAPD is not renewing

00:26:06.074 --> 00:26:07.494
their contract with Flock,

00:26:07.694 --> 00:26:09.516
at least for the time being.

00:26:10.355 --> 00:26:11.156
So the headline says,

00:26:11.317 --> 00:26:13.157
LAPD lets contract with surveillance giant

00:26:13.178 --> 00:26:13.858
Flock expire,

00:26:13.919 --> 00:26:15.640
citing serious concerns over civil

00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:17.201
liberties and privacy.

00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:19.869
Um, so, uh,

00:26:21.371 --> 00:26:23.971
a senior LAPD official told news outlets,

00:26:24.412 --> 00:26:24.772
uh,

00:26:24.792 --> 00:26:27.253
first ABC seven and the Los Angeles times

00:26:28.094 --> 00:26:29.714
that the police department would allow its

00:26:29.755 --> 00:26:31.536
three-year contract to expire when it

00:26:31.635 --> 00:26:33.857
ends, uh, I believe would be this Sunday.

00:26:34.678 --> 00:26:35.959
And they,

00:26:35.979 --> 00:26:37.640
the department cited serious concerns

00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:39.059
around civil liberties and privacies.

00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.281
I don't know why I said privacy is

00:26:41.321 --> 00:26:43.343
plural, uh, civil liberties and privacy,

00:26:43.363 --> 00:26:43.403
uh,

00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:45.039
They said,

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.060
particularly around privacy and the data

00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:48.121
that is being collected,

00:26:48.681 --> 00:26:50.582
the LAPD had to make a difficult decision

00:26:50.701 --> 00:26:51.162
in this case,

00:26:51.182 --> 00:26:52.842
discontinuing flock services until we can

00:26:52.862 --> 00:26:54.282
get those data, privacy, security,

00:26:54.323 --> 00:26:56.643
and sharing concerns ironed out through a

00:26:56.682 --> 00:26:58.163
contractual relationship.

00:26:58.844 --> 00:26:59.364
Uh,

00:26:59.384 --> 00:27:00.923
a spokesperson for the LAPD did not

00:27:00.963 --> 00:27:02.884
respond to a request for comment from tech

00:27:02.904 --> 00:27:03.505
crunch.

00:27:03.865 --> 00:27:04.925
And, uh,

00:27:04.965 --> 00:27:05.806
I'm going to touch on this one in

00:27:05.865 --> 00:27:06.105
a second.

00:27:06.165 --> 00:27:06.665
It's unclear.

00:27:06.726 --> 00:27:08.586
Fox flocks cameras will continue recording

00:27:08.686 --> 00:27:10.106
in absence of an active contract.

00:27:10.955 --> 00:27:11.855
According to ABC seven,

00:27:11.876 --> 00:27:13.057
the police department is seeking new

00:27:13.096 --> 00:27:14.097
language in its contract,

00:27:14.117 --> 00:27:15.337
addressing privacy and data storage

00:27:15.357 --> 00:27:15.838
concerns.

00:27:16.778 --> 00:27:19.160
So LAPD is apparently the third largest

00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.602
police department in the U S my money

00:27:21.642 --> 00:27:23.201
is going to say that the first is

00:27:23.502 --> 00:27:25.143
NYPD, New York.

00:27:25.523 --> 00:27:28.244
And I'm going to guess the first is

00:27:28.285 --> 00:27:29.945
probably going to be a federal agency like

00:27:29.965 --> 00:27:31.026
the FBI, maybe.

00:27:31.046 --> 00:27:31.787
Cause I mean,

00:27:32.166 --> 00:27:33.307
LA and New York are the only mega

00:27:33.347 --> 00:27:34.468
cities in the U S so I don't

00:27:34.488 --> 00:27:35.509
know who would be bigger than them,

00:27:35.648 --> 00:27:36.009
but yeah.

00:27:37.356 --> 00:27:38.637
They said that several major cities have

00:27:38.678 --> 00:27:39.877
also stopped working with Flock,

00:27:39.897 --> 00:27:41.498
citing privacy worries and concerns that

00:27:41.518 --> 00:27:43.179
federal officials use cameras to track

00:27:43.199 --> 00:27:44.859
people in violation of local laws.

00:27:45.619 --> 00:27:49.121
And a Flock spokesperson said that this

00:27:49.580 --> 00:27:52.781
contract expiry caught them by surprise,

00:27:52.961 --> 00:27:53.902
quote-unquote surprise,

00:27:54.482 --> 00:27:55.542
and that they were confident they could,

00:27:55.583 --> 00:27:55.782
quote,

00:27:55.823 --> 00:27:57.324
clear up the current misconceptions,

00:27:57.463 --> 00:27:58.624
unquote.

00:27:58.663 --> 00:27:58.963
Of course,

00:27:59.003 --> 00:28:00.704
they did not specify what misconceptions.

00:28:01.204 --> 00:28:01.984
So –

00:28:02.614 --> 00:28:04.214
Yeah, I mean, this is pretty cool.

00:28:04.835 --> 00:28:06.215
I like the fact that they're basically

00:28:06.236 --> 00:28:06.736
saying, like,

00:28:06.776 --> 00:28:11.759
we want to get this information written in

00:28:11.798 --> 00:28:12.398
the contract,

00:28:12.459 --> 00:28:13.440
which I think is really cool.

00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:15.340
I mean, personally,

00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:16.701
I would like to see Flock go away

00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:17.342
entirely,

00:28:17.402 --> 00:28:20.103
but I certainly think that would be an

00:28:20.123 --> 00:28:21.364
improvement, at least,

00:28:21.763 --> 00:28:23.265
is to get something written down in

00:28:23.325 --> 00:28:23.765
contract.

00:28:24.365 --> 00:28:26.767
And then it is worth noting that...

00:28:28.594 --> 00:28:30.914
They mentioned here the whole it's unclear

00:28:30.934 --> 00:28:32.015
if Flock's cameras will continue

00:28:32.055 --> 00:28:32.414
recording.

00:28:32.875 --> 00:28:34.454
They mentioned further down that that has

00:28:34.474 --> 00:28:35.615
been an issue is a lot of the

00:28:35.655 --> 00:28:38.056
time these cities are now – this is

00:28:38.076 --> 00:28:39.576
kind of like the new problem that we're

00:28:39.596 --> 00:28:41.436
facing in some ways is a lot of

00:28:41.477 --> 00:28:42.876
cities are successfully getting rid of

00:28:42.896 --> 00:28:44.198
Flock, not all of them.

00:28:44.438 --> 00:28:45.518
And I really want to know who's paying

00:28:45.577 --> 00:28:46.458
off those politicians.

00:28:48.419 --> 00:28:49.439
But a lot of cities are getting rid

00:28:49.459 --> 00:28:49.858
of Flock.

00:28:50.739 --> 00:28:51.919
And then there's this new question of

00:28:51.959 --> 00:28:52.700
like, well,

00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:53.859
now what happens to the cameras?

00:28:54.846 --> 00:28:56.148
Because now there's this question of like,

00:28:56.209 --> 00:28:56.449
okay,

00:28:56.489 --> 00:28:58.151
who pays to get rid of the cameras?

00:28:58.832 --> 00:29:01.836
And so the cameras just sit there.

00:29:02.936 --> 00:29:04.098
And then people are wondering, it's like,

00:29:04.179 --> 00:29:04.538
okay,

00:29:04.598 --> 00:29:07.222
but like Flock has always owned

00:29:08.413 --> 00:29:09.594
Everything about those cameras,

00:29:09.634 --> 00:29:11.095
like you're basically renting the cameras

00:29:11.115 --> 00:29:11.355
from them.

00:29:11.375 --> 00:29:12.497
You're licensing the cameras,

00:29:12.517 --> 00:29:13.798
you're licensing the software.

00:29:14.258 --> 00:29:15.719
It's not like they roll in and they

00:29:15.739 --> 00:29:16.200
go, okay,

00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.241
here's your data rack and your server rack

00:29:18.261 --> 00:29:20.242
that goes in your it closet.

00:29:20.262 --> 00:29:21.183
And it's all yours now.

00:29:21.223 --> 00:29:22.605
Like, no, it's theirs.

00:29:22.664 --> 00:29:23.266
They control it,

00:29:23.286 --> 00:29:24.426
which is where some of this controversy

00:29:24.467 --> 00:29:26.568
comes from, because then it's like, um,

00:29:26.588 --> 00:29:28.470
you know, it's like, oh, they,

00:29:28.490 --> 00:29:29.351
they mentioned down here.

00:29:29.510 --> 00:29:29.611
Um,

00:29:31.073 --> 00:29:31.192
Uh,

00:29:31.212 --> 00:29:32.472
four Oh four media reported that a U

00:29:32.573 --> 00:29:34.213
S drug enforcement administration used a

00:29:34.253 --> 00:29:35.753
local police officer's password without

00:29:35.773 --> 00:29:37.193
their knowledge to search for a suspect

00:29:37.375 --> 00:29:38.894
suspect accused of an immigration

00:29:38.914 --> 00:29:39.394
violation.

00:29:39.934 --> 00:29:41.154
And that's without him knowing,

00:29:41.194 --> 00:29:42.596
like the local police are doing search for

00:29:42.615 --> 00:29:43.576
the feds all the time.

00:29:43.596 --> 00:29:44.296
And the feds are just,

00:29:45.076 --> 00:29:46.537
it's the point is like, it's,

00:29:46.616 --> 00:29:47.836
it's remotely accessible anywhere.

00:29:47.896 --> 00:29:49.196
So if these cameras are still there,

00:29:49.856 --> 00:29:51.617
they could at very least in theory,

00:29:51.678 --> 00:29:52.518
still be recording.

00:29:53.018 --> 00:29:53.278
I don't know.

00:29:53.317 --> 00:29:54.238
I'm not going to say if they probably

00:29:54.298 --> 00:29:54.798
are or not.

00:29:55.098 --> 00:29:56.778
I don't know, but they could.

00:29:57.659 --> 00:29:59.160
And they said in this article that in

00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:00.119
some cases, like,

00:30:01.106 --> 00:30:02.528
the cameras have been removed and then

00:30:02.587 --> 00:30:03.228
come back.

00:30:03.728 --> 00:30:04.448
Where did that go?

00:30:04.667 --> 00:30:06.648
Um, yeah.

00:30:06.669 --> 00:30:06.729
Uh,

00:30:07.568 --> 00:30:08.910
some locals have taken matters into their

00:30:08.970 --> 00:30:10.910
own hands by dismantling flock cameras and

00:30:10.971 --> 00:30:12.070
covering them with trash bags.

00:30:12.391 --> 00:30:13.791
Even as some communities found that flock

00:30:13.832 --> 00:30:15.372
reinstalled cameras without permission

00:30:15.392 --> 00:30:16.291
from local authorities.

00:30:16.511 --> 00:30:19.252
So yeah, I, I don't know.

00:30:19.634 --> 00:30:20.693
Um, this is good.

00:30:20.794 --> 00:30:22.555
It's really good to see LAPD pushing back.

00:30:22.654 --> 00:30:24.335
It's really good to see flock facing all

00:30:24.355 --> 00:30:25.395
this intense criticism.

00:30:26.135 --> 00:30:26.296
Um,

00:30:28.942 --> 00:30:29.762
I need to get a good lawyer because

00:30:29.782 --> 00:30:30.683
I keep saying stuff like this.

00:30:31.444 --> 00:30:33.488
The Flock CEO, in my opinion,

00:30:33.667 --> 00:30:36.471
is absolutely morally bankrupt and has no

00:30:36.510 --> 00:30:37.813
moral compass other than money.

00:30:38.673 --> 00:30:40.836
And so until we start seeing stuff like

00:30:40.875 --> 00:30:41.416
this happen,

00:30:41.457 --> 00:30:44.000
these major organizations – because I

00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:45.821
don't think they care about the little HOA

00:30:46.363 --> 00:30:48.366
in –

00:30:47.324 --> 00:30:48.625
Backwoods County, Kansas,

00:30:48.644 --> 00:30:49.566
like they don't care about that.

00:30:49.865 --> 00:30:50.846
But LAPD,

00:30:51.106 --> 00:30:53.368
that's millions of dollars a year easily.

00:30:53.548 --> 00:30:54.169
I guarantee it.

00:30:54.569 --> 00:30:57.352
So until these bigger police departments

00:30:57.372 --> 00:30:59.012
and agencies stop using Flock,

00:30:59.554 --> 00:31:00.673
it's not going to hit them in the

00:31:00.693 --> 00:31:01.914
wallet and they're not going to change.

00:31:01.934 --> 00:31:02.816
That's the only way they're going to

00:31:02.836 --> 00:31:03.096
change.

00:31:03.155 --> 00:31:04.798
So again,

00:31:04.917 --> 00:31:05.837
I would like to see them go away

00:31:05.877 --> 00:31:06.439
entirely.

00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:07.779
But the fact that LA is at least

00:31:07.819 --> 00:31:08.319
demanding...

00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:11.482
So some sort of contractual improvement

00:31:11.522 --> 00:31:11.803
here.

00:31:13.045 --> 00:31:14.185
I guess my only question at that point

00:31:14.226 --> 00:31:15.247
is we would have to wait and see

00:31:15.386 --> 00:31:16.567
if it gets enforced.

00:31:16.667 --> 00:31:17.689
If there's some kind of contract

00:31:17.709 --> 00:31:18.229
violation,

00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:20.050
will they actually take flock to court?

00:31:20.111 --> 00:31:21.612
But now I'm getting like five years ahead

00:31:21.632 --> 00:31:22.012
of myself.

00:31:22.053 --> 00:31:23.213
So I don't know.

00:31:23.713 --> 00:31:24.634
I think those are all my thoughts.

00:31:24.674 --> 00:31:25.675
I think that's the story.

00:31:26.676 --> 00:31:27.538
Did I miss anything?

00:31:27.597 --> 00:31:28.759
Do you have any thoughts I missed?

00:31:30.227 --> 00:31:31.186
I think it's interesting,

00:31:31.287 --> 00:31:33.067
like when you talked about like the budget

00:31:33.208 --> 00:31:34.147
and like what,

00:31:34.307 --> 00:31:35.968
how much money is going to flock here,

00:31:36.367 --> 00:31:38.308
just so we're on the same page, everybody,

00:31:38.648 --> 00:31:41.589
the LAPD has a budget of one point

00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:43.309
nine billion dollars.

00:31:43.369 --> 00:31:46.010
Like that's literally like an obscene

00:31:46.050 --> 00:31:46.711
amount of money,

00:31:47.711 --> 00:31:49.211
especially just for like a single

00:31:49.730 --> 00:31:50.311
department.

00:31:50.352 --> 00:31:50.672
Right.

00:31:51.291 --> 00:31:53.251
So when we talk about like all this

00:31:53.291 --> 00:31:54.593
flock contract,

00:31:54.932 --> 00:31:55.913
we're probably talking like

00:31:56.752 --> 00:31:58.834
hundreds of millions like maybe tens of

00:31:58.854 --> 00:32:00.996
millions maybe a hundred million like it's

00:32:01.036 --> 00:32:02.737
probably a lot right like this is probably

00:32:02.757 --> 00:32:05.858
a pretty big um a pretty big contract

00:32:05.878 --> 00:32:08.279
for them so like this is kind of

00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:11.761
a big win like this is uh taking

00:32:11.781 --> 00:32:14.443
a pretty massive chunk out of um

00:32:15.942 --> 00:32:17.042
out of flock's pocket here.

00:32:17.502 --> 00:32:19.144
And I think it was interesting.

00:32:19.204 --> 00:32:21.266
This article by Zach Whitaker, it's, uh,

00:32:21.326 --> 00:32:23.347
he says researchers have identified an

00:32:23.448 --> 00:32:25.710
uptick in documented cases of motorists

00:32:25.769 --> 00:32:26.589
being pulled over,

00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:29.332
detained and held at gunpoint by police or

00:32:29.372 --> 00:32:31.693
jailed due to false positives and errors

00:32:31.733 --> 00:32:34.435
with licensed flight readers.

00:32:34.896 --> 00:32:37.358
So like we, like, you know,

00:32:37.419 --> 00:32:38.700
we've kind of talked about this a lot,

00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.001
but these systems are like notoriously not

00:32:42.041 --> 00:32:42.962
very accurate.

00:32:43.763 --> 00:32:43.903
Um,

00:32:45.862 --> 00:32:46.041
yeah.

00:32:46.102 --> 00:32:47.001
And they're just, you know,

00:32:47.162 --> 00:32:48.863
they lead to all these sort of problems.

00:32:49.123 --> 00:32:49.323
Um,

00:32:50.063 --> 00:32:53.324
and it's good to see that the contract

00:32:53.344 --> 00:32:54.763
did get canceled in the end.

00:32:55.265 --> 00:32:58.585
Um, and especially such a big contract,

00:32:58.625 --> 00:33:00.865
because like I said before,

00:33:01.246 --> 00:33:02.226
one point nine billion,

00:33:02.586 --> 00:33:03.826
that was in twenty twenty three.

00:33:04.846 --> 00:33:05.106
Um,

00:33:06.107 --> 00:33:07.367
and apparently they're probably hiring

00:33:07.407 --> 00:33:07.948
more people.

00:33:08.048 --> 00:33:09.307
So that's probably going to go up a

00:33:09.347 --> 00:33:10.509
couple hundred million.

00:33:11.048 --> 00:33:14.329
Um, so definitely, definitely a win there.

00:33:14.789 --> 00:33:14.930
Um,

00:33:16.690 --> 00:33:19.692
I think it's, yeah,

00:33:19.771 --> 00:33:23.414
it's definitely interesting.

00:33:23.694 --> 00:33:24.796
They didn't mention anywhere in the

00:33:24.855 --> 00:33:27.978
article the contract cost or, like,

00:33:28.097 --> 00:33:29.358
how much it would have been for them

00:33:30.239 --> 00:33:31.941
to lose, but we can kind of speculate,

00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:32.560
obviously.

00:33:35.163 --> 00:33:35.623
Yeah, no,

00:33:35.663 --> 00:33:36.644
this is just kind of a win.

00:33:36.663 --> 00:33:39.164
I don't really have too much more to

00:33:39.246 --> 00:33:39.685
add on it.

00:33:41.542 --> 00:33:43.284
I do want to add in relation to

00:33:43.304 --> 00:33:43.644
cost.

00:33:43.703 --> 00:33:43.963
Yeah,

00:33:45.365 --> 00:33:47.065
the last city I lived in in Texas

00:33:49.185 --> 00:33:50.507
was a major city,

00:33:51.126 --> 00:33:52.547
probably one of the smaller ones in Texas

00:33:52.567 --> 00:33:52.968
to be honest,

00:33:53.448 --> 00:33:54.367
but it was a major city,

00:33:54.548 --> 00:34:03.091
and I know that our budget –

00:33:58.267 --> 00:33:59.928
The police department budget for Clearview

00:33:59.988 --> 00:34:02.209
AI was somewhere in the neighborhood of

00:34:02.249 --> 00:34:04.029
two million dollars a year.

00:34:04.509 --> 00:34:06.592
So, yeah,

00:34:06.612 --> 00:34:08.072
just to kind of give you an idea

00:34:08.092 --> 00:34:09.273
of how much this may or may not

00:34:09.293 --> 00:34:09.572
cost.

00:34:09.632 --> 00:34:09.833
Yeah,

00:34:09.952 --> 00:34:12.273
a lot of these megacities like New York

00:34:12.293 --> 00:34:12.855
and L.A.,

00:34:13.235 --> 00:34:14.755
their police have more budgets than a lot

00:34:14.775 --> 00:34:16.036
of militaries in other countries.

00:34:16.197 --> 00:34:17.056
It's it's wild.

00:34:17.237 --> 00:34:19.197
But, oh,

00:34:19.217 --> 00:34:20.619
they operated one hundred and thirty eight

00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:21.818
cameras in Los Angeles.

00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:23.920
I wonder if that's Los Angeles proper or

00:34:23.981 --> 00:34:24.760
the entire basin.

00:34:26.371 --> 00:34:29.032
so sorry, I'm on the LA times.

00:34:29.072 --> 00:34:29.592
So, yeah,

00:34:29.652 --> 00:34:31.273
I think it is kind of astounding when

00:34:31.293 --> 00:34:32.715
you, when you think of the budget,

00:34:32.735 --> 00:34:33.956
I think people, yeah,

00:34:33.976 --> 00:34:37.557
I don't realize that states in the United

00:34:37.597 --> 00:34:40.960
States are like mini countries basically

00:34:41.179 --> 00:34:42.101
compared to like, you know,

00:34:42.141 --> 00:34:43.181
things in Europe and stuff.

00:34:43.422 --> 00:34:46.123
Um, so it is kind of, um,

00:34:46.182 --> 00:34:47.184
it is kind of a lot of money,

00:34:47.664 --> 00:34:50.385
um, that this contract was probably,

00:34:50.445 --> 00:34:50.666
I mean,

00:34:51.385 --> 00:34:53.188
two million for that contract probably.

00:34:53.527 --> 00:34:53.628
Um,

00:34:55.485 --> 00:34:56.166
But, yeah, we'll see.

00:34:57.086 --> 00:34:59.007
We can hope that this continues and,

00:34:59.027 --> 00:34:59.288
you know,

00:34:59.327 --> 00:35:02.349
more cities are discontinuing this

00:35:03.331 --> 00:35:04.972
because, like we've said, this is, like,

00:35:06.092 --> 00:35:07.634
really bad for people's privacy and really

00:35:07.653 --> 00:35:10.376
bad for mass surveillance.

00:35:12.396 --> 00:35:12.677
You know,

00:35:13.016 --> 00:35:15.079
I would say maybe put a trash bag

00:35:15.139 --> 00:35:15.998
over some cameras.

00:35:16.099 --> 00:35:18.621
I mean, that's probably not a crime,

00:35:18.641 --> 00:35:18.860
right?

00:35:19.121 --> 00:35:19.501
I don't know.

00:35:20.481 --> 00:35:23.164
But, yeah, this is sort of creepy stuff,

00:35:23.224 --> 00:35:23.364
so.

00:35:24.768 --> 00:35:25.949
You can get involved with that.

00:35:26.088 --> 00:35:27.710
I believe there's a website that's got

00:35:27.751 --> 00:35:28.431
people organizing.

00:35:28.452 --> 00:35:29.572
It's called Deflock.

00:35:30.333 --> 00:35:34.458
Deflock.org, I think, yeah.

00:35:34.697 --> 00:35:35.898
Deflock.org, yeah.

00:35:36.380 --> 00:35:40.784
So, yeah, definitely check that out.

00:35:42.445 --> 00:35:45.389
Yeah, and I was going to say, oh,

00:35:45.429 --> 00:35:45.610
wow.

00:35:46.143 --> 00:35:49.585
LA Times says the LAPD's automatic license

00:35:49.606 --> 00:35:51.126
plate reader system includes two hundred

00:35:51.146 --> 00:35:52.507
and forty eight pole mounted cameras,

00:35:52.527 --> 00:35:54.509
one hundred and forty cameras mounted on

00:35:54.528 --> 00:35:55.429
police vehicle roofs,

00:35:55.510 --> 00:35:57.590
fifteen hundred cameras installed inside

00:35:57.610 --> 00:35:59.552
police vehicles and seven mobile trailer

00:35:59.592 --> 00:35:59.992
cameras.

00:36:00.652 --> 00:36:01.333
Wow, that's.

00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:03.981
Geez.

00:36:04.061 --> 00:36:05.882
Anyways, no, what was I going to say?

00:36:05.942 --> 00:36:06.161
Yeah,

00:36:06.563 --> 00:36:07.702
and not to put too fine a point

00:36:07.742 --> 00:36:07.884
on it,

00:36:07.903 --> 00:36:09.143
but just last week we covered a story

00:36:09.164 --> 00:36:10.885
about a cop who was abusing – a

00:36:10.925 --> 00:36:14.007
cop in Florida who was abusing all the

00:36:14.047 --> 00:36:16.628
databases to stalk a girl that turned him

00:36:16.668 --> 00:36:18.349
down while he was trying to hit on

00:36:18.369 --> 00:36:18.530
her.

00:36:18.990 --> 00:36:19.411
So yeah,

00:36:19.431 --> 00:36:20.992
these things are just so prone to abuse.

00:36:21.932 --> 00:36:22.512
As far as I know,

00:36:22.532 --> 00:36:24.373
there's still no studies showing that

00:36:24.393 --> 00:36:27.657
there's a significant drop in crime due to

00:36:27.697 --> 00:36:28.436
mass surveillance.

00:36:28.476 --> 00:36:29.697
So yeah, it's just –

00:36:31.297 --> 00:36:35.262
just yikes but that's all dag said uh

00:36:35.342 --> 00:36:37.244
states in the eu are literally yeah that's

00:36:37.264 --> 00:36:38.885
what i meant i meant like the countries

00:36:39.126 --> 00:36:40.567
like you know like i feel like the

00:36:40.628 --> 00:36:42.088
states in the u.s almost like many

00:36:42.128 --> 00:36:43.630
countries but that's that's what kind of

00:36:43.650 --> 00:36:44.711
what i was trying to say i don't

00:36:44.831 --> 00:36:46.233
know if i said that right but

00:36:46.693 --> 00:36:48.273
It's, it's honestly very similar.

00:36:48.534 --> 00:36:49.695
Um, I mean, obviously I've,

00:36:49.855 --> 00:36:50.775
I've never lived in Europe,

00:36:50.815 --> 00:36:51.856
so I can't say for sure,

00:36:51.896 --> 00:36:52.697
but from what I understand,

00:36:52.737 --> 00:36:54.057
it's like States in the U S do

00:36:54.097 --> 00:36:55.980
have a pretty large degree of autonomy.

00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:56.420
I think,

00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:58.782
I think our federal government does have a

00:36:58.922 --> 00:37:01.342
little bit more say than like the EU

00:37:01.362 --> 00:37:03.224
commission or whoever in Europe.

00:37:03.304 --> 00:37:04.806
But, um, it's honestly,

00:37:04.826 --> 00:37:06.606
it's a very similar system where States

00:37:06.626 --> 00:37:07.688
have a lot of autonomy.

00:37:07.867 --> 00:37:09.309
So it's, I mean,

00:37:09.409 --> 00:37:12.490
everything is simple as a tax rates.

00:37:12.791 --> 00:37:12.992
Um,

00:37:14.266 --> 00:37:15.927
Like, even how you register vehicles,

00:37:15.967 --> 00:37:16.987
how you register to vote.

00:37:17.067 --> 00:37:17.208
Like,

00:37:17.248 --> 00:37:18.867
some states allow mail-in voting for

00:37:19.028 --> 00:37:19.489
anybody.

00:37:19.568 --> 00:37:20.728
Some states, you have to be, like,

00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:21.929
active-duty military.

00:37:22.050 --> 00:37:24.690
Like, it's very patchwork.

00:37:24.710 --> 00:37:25.771
But, yeah.

00:37:29.434 --> 00:37:30.635
I think we're ready to move on to

00:37:30.894 --> 00:37:31.514
site updates,

00:37:31.554 --> 00:37:32.755
unless you had anything you wanted to add

00:37:32.815 --> 00:37:33.255
to that one.

00:37:34.896 --> 00:37:35.317
Cool.

00:37:35.356 --> 00:37:35.637
No, yeah,

00:37:35.657 --> 00:37:37.637
let's dive into some site updates here.

00:37:38.918 --> 00:37:41.400
But I guess before we dive into some

00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:42.621
privacy of...

00:37:44.213 --> 00:37:45.394
top period trackers.

00:37:45.655 --> 00:37:47.416
I'm just going to give some quick updates

00:37:47.496 --> 00:37:48.898
about what we've been working on at

00:37:49.018 --> 00:37:51.659
Privacy Guides this week.

00:37:52.161 --> 00:37:54.461
In case you haven't seen,

00:37:55.143 --> 00:37:56.184
we put out a new video.

00:37:57.945 --> 00:37:59.106
This was an interview with

00:38:01.545 --> 00:38:03.865
Rudy Wang from Cape Mobile.

00:38:03.925 --> 00:38:05.327
We've had a lot of questions about this

00:38:05.367 --> 00:38:07.788
service and people just wanting to know

00:38:07.867 --> 00:38:09.829
more about it, whether it's trustworthy,

00:38:10.369 --> 00:38:12.289
whether what they say is actually true.

00:38:14.271 --> 00:38:17.592
So Jonah kind of sat down with Rudy

00:38:17.672 --> 00:38:19.353
and asked a lot of questions that

00:38:20.253 --> 00:38:22.137
I think a lot of people would have.

00:38:22.197 --> 00:38:23.500
So if you've seen the service,

00:38:24.061 --> 00:38:25.885
I guess this is very much a US

00:38:25.905 --> 00:38:28.829
specific video because this isn't

00:38:28.889 --> 00:38:30.512
something that's available outside the US.

00:38:30.532 --> 00:38:32.056
So if you're in the US and you

00:38:34.905 --> 00:38:36.286
have heard of CAPE and you're kind of

00:38:36.327 --> 00:38:38.509
skeptical or you kind of have questions

00:38:38.568 --> 00:38:41.391
about it, you can check out the video.

00:38:42.072 --> 00:38:43.132
As always,

00:38:43.693 --> 00:38:45.233
we're not affiliated with anyone.

00:38:45.273 --> 00:38:48.677
We don't give the questions beforehand.

00:38:49.978 --> 00:38:52.119
There was no financial incentive or

00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:53.099
anything for this video.

00:38:53.541 --> 00:38:54.360
We just kind of wanted to

00:38:55.369 --> 00:38:57.851
to ask questions and get some responses on

00:38:58.311 --> 00:38:59.934
how some features work and stuff like

00:38:59.954 --> 00:39:00.213
that.

00:39:00.273 --> 00:39:03.416
So if you've had questions about how that

00:39:03.476 --> 00:39:07.039
works or you're skeptical about it and

00:39:07.059 --> 00:39:09.061
you're not really sure if it's legit or

00:39:09.101 --> 00:39:09.300
not,

00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:11.043
I think it could be a good idea

00:39:11.063 --> 00:39:11.842
to check that out.

00:39:13.764 --> 00:39:14.726
It's quite a long interview,

00:39:14.786 --> 00:39:16.626
but you can have a look.

00:39:16.786 --> 00:39:18.949
There's timestamps for every question in

00:39:18.969 --> 00:39:19.929
the video and

00:39:21.467 --> 00:39:23.248
Maybe there'll be something there if

00:39:23.268 --> 00:39:24.630
you've been considering it.

00:39:25.851 --> 00:39:28.012
Hopefully that answers some questions that

00:39:29.152 --> 00:39:33.016
you have.

00:39:33.056 --> 00:39:34.195
Cool.

00:39:34.215 --> 00:39:36.458
Yeah, I've been using Cape.

00:39:37.038 --> 00:39:38.438
It's worked pretty well for me.

00:39:38.918 --> 00:39:39.659
Every once in a while,

00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:41.400
I will have to reboot my phone.

00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:41.960
Just this morning,

00:39:42.001 --> 00:39:42.961
I went out to get coffee.

00:39:43.702 --> 00:39:44.603
And for some reason,

00:39:44.963 --> 00:39:46.304
the cell signal was not working.

00:39:46.344 --> 00:39:47.525
So I just had to reboot my phone,

00:39:47.545 --> 00:39:48.405
and it popped right up.

00:39:50.532 --> 00:39:50.952
Yeah,

00:39:51.152 --> 00:39:52.333
I have not listened to it yet because

00:39:52.373 --> 00:39:53.753
it is about an hour long,

00:39:53.954 --> 00:39:54.454
like you said.

00:39:54.675 --> 00:39:57.675
But it's going to go in my queue

00:39:57.896 --> 00:39:58.317
for sure.

00:39:58.577 --> 00:39:59.958
I cannot wait to listen to that.

00:40:02.378 --> 00:40:03.800
That's kind of really the only site

00:40:03.860 --> 00:40:04.179
update.

00:40:04.219 --> 00:40:05.260
There was a really quick,

00:40:05.300 --> 00:40:08.143
we fixed a broken link about data erasure

00:40:08.182 --> 00:40:09.744
that was in the Linux overview page.

00:40:10.842 --> 00:40:13.864
Um, but other than that, I mean, it's,

00:40:13.963 --> 00:40:18.146
it's been, uh, um, I, I actually haven't,

00:40:18.166 --> 00:40:19.327
uh, told Jordan this,

00:40:19.347 --> 00:40:21.168
but I did film the next video.

00:40:21.527 --> 00:40:22.427
Um, like we wrote the script,

00:40:22.487 --> 00:40:23.108
I filmed it.

00:40:23.989 --> 00:40:24.148
Um,

00:40:24.168 --> 00:40:25.188
so now I need to do the first

00:40:25.208 --> 00:40:26.369
cut of that and then send that over

00:40:26.389 --> 00:40:26.789
to Jordan,

00:40:26.809 --> 00:40:29.530
but I know you're still working on the

00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:30.391
video before that.

00:40:30.492 --> 00:40:31.831
So yeah, we're,

00:40:31.851 --> 00:40:33.512
we're chugging along at a nice rate and

00:40:33.532 --> 00:40:36.614
there is content on the way in addition

00:40:36.634 --> 00:40:37.514
to this podcast.

00:40:37.815 --> 00:40:38.094
And, um,

00:40:39.061 --> 00:40:41.023
That content is made possible by

00:40:41.103 --> 00:40:41.603
supporters.

00:40:41.804 --> 00:40:43.224
So you can sign up for a membership

00:40:43.304 --> 00:40:45.346
or donate at privacyguides.org slash

00:40:45.385 --> 00:40:47.168
donate or pick up some swag at

00:40:47.208 --> 00:40:48.829
shop.privacyguides.org.

00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:50.829
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

00:40:50.889 --> 00:40:52.552
researches and shares privacy related

00:40:52.612 --> 00:40:54.913
information and facilitates a community on

00:40:55.012 --> 00:40:56.753
our forum and matrix where people can ask

00:40:56.793 --> 00:40:58.775
questions and get advice about staying

00:40:58.795 --> 00:41:00.237
private online and preserving their

00:41:00.277 --> 00:41:01.016
digital rights.

00:41:01.257 --> 00:41:02.639
And now it is time to talk about

00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:05.981
Cloudflare's latest bot detection plan.

00:41:07.847 --> 00:41:08.288
Yes,

00:41:08.347 --> 00:41:11.628
let's dive into this story here from

00:41:11.949 --> 00:41:14.909
nerds.xyz.

00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.949
Cloudflare precursor watches your mouse

00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:20.351
and keyboard to decide if you're human.

00:41:20.911 --> 00:41:22.971
Cloudflare wants websites to stop asking

00:41:22.990 --> 00:41:24.931
visitors to prove they're human with

00:41:24.992 --> 00:41:26.492
irritating capture puzzles.

00:41:26.952 --> 00:41:28.333
Its replacement, however,

00:41:28.512 --> 00:41:31.032
involves watching how people move, type,

00:41:31.333 --> 00:41:31.753
scroll,

00:41:32.132 --> 00:41:34.153
and interact without a page throughout an

00:41:34.213 --> 00:41:34.974
entire session.

00:41:37.025 --> 00:41:38.965
Cloudflare's response has basically been

00:41:39.005 --> 00:41:42.528
to release this new product called

00:41:42.568 --> 00:41:43.188
Precursor,

00:41:43.248 --> 00:41:45.451
a behavioral bot management system for

00:41:45.490 --> 00:41:47.472
Cloudflare Enterprise bot management

00:41:47.512 --> 00:41:48.072
customers.

00:41:48.612 --> 00:41:51.054
Instead of checking one login, click,

00:41:51.155 --> 00:41:52.135
or checkout attempt,

00:41:52.556 --> 00:41:55.757
Precursor continuously evaluates activity

00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:58.219
inside the browser to determine whether a

00:41:58.260 --> 00:41:59.380
visitor appears human.

00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:01.463
Cloudflare says the system looks at

00:42:01.483 --> 00:42:03.063
signals such as mouse movement,

00:42:03.563 --> 00:42:05.666
scrolling rhythm, typing cadence,

00:42:06.007 --> 00:42:08.389
clipboard activity, page visibility,

00:42:08.931 --> 00:42:11.034
and whether keyboard events happened while

00:42:11.094 --> 00:42:15.119
a text field was selected.

00:42:15.139 --> 00:42:17.202
It does not capture the actual keys being

00:42:17.242 --> 00:42:18.704
pressed, according to the company.

00:42:19.023 --> 00:42:21.887
It studies the timing and rhythm instead.

00:42:23.981 --> 00:42:26.722
so i think the immediate thing from this

00:42:26.902 --> 00:42:29.684
is this is a lot more tater than

00:42:29.945 --> 00:42:31.724
uh what previously they were trying to

00:42:31.744 --> 00:42:33.945
collect right like before it was like you

00:42:33.965 --> 00:42:36.067
know your mouse movements and how you

00:42:36.106 --> 00:42:38.827
clicked on a checkbox um that was how

00:42:38.887 --> 00:42:40.989
the turn the cloudflare turn style used to

00:42:41.028 --> 00:42:44.371
work um and you know it would it

00:42:44.391 --> 00:42:45.710
would also get information about your

00:42:45.731 --> 00:42:48.112
connection and such to kind of evaluate it

00:42:48.132 --> 00:42:49.152
but this is like

00:42:50.349 --> 00:42:52.753
a lot more invasive because it's you know

00:42:52.813 --> 00:42:57.458
it's checking a lot more uh parameters to

00:42:57.498 --> 00:43:00.581
basically identify if you're um a human

00:43:00.601 --> 00:43:03.804
being and i think this is basically a

00:43:03.844 --> 00:43:06.206
response to like agentic systems right

00:43:06.246 --> 00:43:09.150
because people are using agentic browsers

00:43:09.331 --> 00:43:10.211
and um

00:43:11.552 --> 00:43:11.793
you know,

00:43:11.932 --> 00:43:14.014
systems to basically automate processes.

00:43:14.554 --> 00:43:15.875
And a lot of times they're using it

00:43:15.914 --> 00:43:16.534
for abuse.

00:43:17.356 --> 00:43:19.336
So basically just because someone's using

00:43:19.356 --> 00:43:21.117
an agentic system doesn't mean they're

00:43:21.157 --> 00:43:22.297
inherently a good actor.

00:43:23.378 --> 00:43:24.358
So, you know,

00:43:24.418 --> 00:43:25.840
websites kind of have to crack down on

00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:28.260
this sort of thing, which is kind of,

00:43:29.061 --> 00:43:30.983
it's just like another thing that AI is

00:43:31.023 --> 00:43:31.523
bringing us

00:43:32.266 --> 00:43:34.588
you know, thanks AI again for doing that.

00:43:35.668 --> 00:43:36.208
So, you know,

00:43:36.628 --> 00:43:39.590
this is another way for websites to

00:43:39.610 --> 00:43:41.431
basically determine if you're a bot or

00:43:41.471 --> 00:43:41.811
not.

00:43:44.233 --> 00:43:45.632
I think this is, again,

00:43:45.672 --> 00:43:48.175
like Cloudflare is like one of those

00:43:48.215 --> 00:43:50.936
companies that has a bit too much control.

00:43:51.076 --> 00:43:53.896
They have, you know,

00:43:54.036 --> 00:43:56.097
a large network that is covering a

00:43:56.137 --> 00:43:59.199
majority of the internet and basically

00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:01.440
them becoming like the gatekeeper becomes,

00:44:02.485 --> 00:44:06.829
kind of an issue um but I guess

00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:08.789
if this all worked like locally I'm not

00:44:08.829 --> 00:44:10.251
sure if this would be as much of

00:44:10.271 --> 00:44:12.652
an issue but I think just the inherent

00:44:12.692 --> 00:44:16.673
way that this is described is that this

00:44:16.733 --> 00:44:18.735
data would have to be collected and and

00:44:18.795 --> 00:44:22.617
analyzed by Cloudflare itself um so

00:44:24.284 --> 00:44:26.646
it's kind of unfortunate um this is

00:44:26.666 --> 00:44:28.186
definitely better than google's way of

00:44:28.206 --> 00:44:30.349
doing things like google was originally

00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:32.170
asking you to download an app on your

00:44:32.210 --> 00:44:34.331
phone um and you need to have like

00:44:34.351 --> 00:44:36.873
a verified google android device to verify

00:44:36.914 --> 00:44:38.855
your identity with which i think was

00:44:38.914 --> 00:44:44.840
definitely worse um so yeah this is kind

00:44:44.860 --> 00:44:47.101
of interesting but also just like a little

00:44:47.121 --> 00:44:49.742
bit dystopian um the fact that they have

00:44:49.762 --> 00:44:51.465
to track so much information to determine

00:44:51.485 --> 00:44:52.885
if you're human or not um

00:44:54.297 --> 00:44:54.597
But yeah,

00:44:54.717 --> 00:44:55.920
kind of throwing it back to you here,

00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:56.559
Nate.

00:44:57.621 --> 00:44:58.541
How do you feel about this one?

00:45:00.123 --> 00:45:01.164
Yeah, no, I'm with you.

00:45:01.364 --> 00:45:04.248
I mean, I think further down,

00:45:04.288 --> 00:45:05.929
they do say that they try to...

00:45:08.992 --> 00:45:10.072
Where is it here?

00:45:10.373 --> 00:45:10.614
Uh...

00:45:12.574 --> 00:45:14.396
Cloudflare is emphasizing privacy in its

00:45:14.436 --> 00:45:15.476
description of precursor.

00:45:15.496 --> 00:45:16.896
The company says it collects the minimum

00:45:16.976 --> 00:45:18.858
information needed to identify automated

00:45:18.898 --> 00:45:20.818
activity and does not record actual

00:45:20.858 --> 00:45:21.440
keystrokes.

00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.380
It also says behavioral information is

00:45:23.481 --> 00:45:25.501
analyzed as aggregate patterns and not

00:45:25.541 --> 00:45:26.802
connected to login identities,

00:45:26.842 --> 00:45:27.563
customer accounts,

00:45:27.663 --> 00:45:29.123
or persistent user profiles.

00:45:30.264 --> 00:45:31.704
But the author goes on to say those

00:45:31.724 --> 00:45:32.545
protections are important,

00:45:32.565 --> 00:45:34.246
but the privacy concern is still difficult

00:45:34.286 --> 00:45:34.806
to ignore.

00:45:35.527 --> 00:45:37.068
And it says,

00:45:37.108 --> 00:45:38.690
software that continually measures mouse

00:45:38.730 --> 00:45:39.811
movements, typing cadence,

00:45:39.831 --> 00:45:41.371
clipboard activity, focus changes,

00:45:41.751 --> 00:45:43.693
and page visibility may feel invasive even

00:45:43.713 --> 00:45:45.295
when it does not capture the content being

00:45:45.335 --> 00:45:45.715
typed.

00:45:45.875 --> 00:45:49.739
So yeah, it's definitely...

00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:53.221
I don't know, Cloudflare is,

00:45:54.181 --> 00:45:55.244
my complaints with Cloudflare are

00:45:55.284 --> 00:45:56.224
different than most people.

00:45:56.784 --> 00:45:58.907
I actually have more complaints about the

00:45:58.927 --> 00:46:00.248
amount of centralization, you know,

00:46:00.268 --> 00:46:01.250
that one of their engineers will

00:46:01.289 --> 00:46:02.911
accidentally push bad code and crash a

00:46:02.931 --> 00:46:04.432
third of the internet and now people are

00:46:04.472 --> 00:46:05.313
stranded in the airport.

00:46:06.534 --> 00:46:08.177
But I mean, this is still, yeah,

00:46:08.217 --> 00:46:12.001
it's like, I don't know,

00:46:12.141 --> 00:46:14.423
even when you aggregate this kind of data,

00:46:15.945 --> 00:46:18.045
I still feel like there's gotta be ways

00:46:18.085 --> 00:46:19.246
for it to be de-anonymized.

00:46:19.266 --> 00:46:21.567
There's gotta be concerns with how it's

00:46:21.586 --> 00:46:22.166
stored.

00:46:22.547 --> 00:46:22.806
Cause I mean,

00:46:22.847 --> 00:46:24.327
it has to be stored individually so that

00:46:24.347 --> 00:46:25.827
you can discard old data, right?

00:46:25.987 --> 00:46:28.588
Like you can't just have this pool where

00:46:28.608 --> 00:46:29.688
you just keep throwing everything.

00:46:29.708 --> 00:46:31.010
It'll be like water, it'll mix together.

00:46:31.030 --> 00:46:32.050
How do you know what the old water

00:46:32.130 --> 00:46:32.309
is?

00:46:32.349 --> 00:46:33.291
And I don't know.

00:46:33.371 --> 00:46:33.951
It's just, yeah,

00:46:34.271 --> 00:46:35.630
I'm not really a fan of this,

00:46:35.751 --> 00:46:41.273
but I do wonder what trying to get

00:46:41.393 --> 00:46:42.634
around this is gonna look like.

00:46:42.673 --> 00:46:43.373
Cause I know that,

00:46:44.414 --> 00:46:46.034
for example, with like you block origin,

00:46:46.054 --> 00:46:46.536
for example,

00:46:46.596 --> 00:46:48.556
if you disable JavaScript entirely,

00:46:49.635 --> 00:46:52.396
sometimes captures just won't load at all.

00:46:52.657 --> 00:46:53.898
And then you just can't get onto the

00:46:53.918 --> 00:46:54.398
website.

00:46:54.518 --> 00:46:59.478
So yeah, it's, um, it's frustrating.

00:46:59.518 --> 00:47:00.318
Cause this is,

00:47:00.338 --> 00:47:02.179
this is like a cat and mouse thing

00:47:02.219 --> 00:47:03.119
where, you know, the bots,

00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:04.721
there were bots on the internet.

00:47:04.740 --> 00:47:05.661
So then we added captures,

00:47:05.701 --> 00:47:07.161
but then the bots learned how to do

00:47:07.181 --> 00:47:07.742
the captures.

00:47:07.762 --> 00:47:09.021
So now we're doing something else.

00:47:09.061 --> 00:47:09.262
And it's,

00:47:10.737 --> 00:47:12.199
Yeah, I don't know.

00:47:12.739 --> 00:47:13.802
It just sucks.

00:47:14.722 --> 00:47:15.605
I don't think I have much more to

00:47:15.625 --> 00:47:16.326
say than that.

00:47:16.385 --> 00:47:16.947
It just sucks.

00:47:17.206 --> 00:47:17.588
Not a fan.

00:47:18.766 --> 00:47:21.108
Yeah, I think the main issue that, like,

00:47:21.887 --> 00:47:23.250
you kind of touched on a bit, but,

00:47:23.289 --> 00:47:23.590
like,

00:47:23.969 --> 00:47:26.112
I think the main issue is people don't

00:47:26.132 --> 00:47:27.172
really like that, like,

00:47:27.193 --> 00:47:28.893
the entire internet is centralized on

00:47:28.934 --> 00:47:29.514
Cloudflare.

00:47:31.094 --> 00:47:31.315
You know,

00:47:31.356 --> 00:47:33.376
especially I think Cloudflare is,

00:47:33.878 --> 00:47:35.079
everyone kind of knows it's, like,

00:47:35.179 --> 00:47:39.581
you know, an American corporation.

00:47:39.601 --> 00:47:40.483
I think a lot of, like,

00:47:40.543 --> 00:47:41.724
companies in Europe are, like,

00:47:42.344 --> 00:47:43.885
becoming skeptical of these sort of

00:47:43.905 --> 00:47:46.847
things, trying to not have everything be,

00:47:46.867 --> 00:47:47.027
like,

00:47:48.206 --> 00:47:51.128
routed through a company like that um i

00:47:51.148 --> 00:47:56.311
think also the uh the issue with this

00:47:56.351 --> 00:47:58.454
sort of system is that it locks people

00:47:58.574 --> 00:48:01.376
into a capture based system right like if

00:48:01.396 --> 00:48:04.579
you if you set this up on your

00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:06.039
website then um

00:48:07.539 --> 00:48:07.820
you know,

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.760
it kind of locks you into continually

00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:12.541
paying for this forever to protect your

00:48:12.561 --> 00:48:13.021
website.

00:48:13.782 --> 00:48:16.182
And yeah, I don't know.

00:48:16.242 --> 00:48:19.143
I don't think Cloudflare is as bad as

00:48:19.204 --> 00:48:20.543
every other company we talk about.

00:48:20.603 --> 00:48:22.684
Like we talk about like Microsoft, Google,

00:48:22.764 --> 00:48:23.744
Facebook, Meta,

00:48:23.965 --> 00:48:26.186
like they're all really bad and Cloudflare

00:48:26.206 --> 00:48:28.806
is definitely less bad.

00:48:29.146 --> 00:48:30.226
So, you know,

00:48:30.266 --> 00:48:31.228
not letting them off the hook,

00:48:31.268 --> 00:48:31.728
but like

00:48:32.858 --> 00:48:35.820
They're definitely not as bad as those

00:48:35.860 --> 00:48:36.460
companies.

00:48:37.822 --> 00:48:40.844
But I think it does seem like this

00:48:40.983 --> 00:48:43.887
is a good faith attempt at stopping this

00:48:43.907 --> 00:48:44.467
sort of thing.

00:48:45.447 --> 00:48:46.148
But, you know,

00:48:46.228 --> 00:48:47.650
obviously we're going to have issues when

00:48:47.690 --> 00:48:49.190
it's collecting, like Nate said,

00:48:49.951 --> 00:48:51.833
a bunch of information that

00:48:53.985 --> 00:48:56.146
is in the broader scheme of things

00:48:56.365 --> 00:48:57.425
somewhat unnecessary,

00:48:57.505 --> 00:48:59.047
but I guess there has got to be

00:48:59.086 --> 00:49:01.148
a way for websites to protect themselves

00:49:01.168 --> 00:49:03.568
against these bots and like agentic

00:49:03.588 --> 00:49:04.009
systems.

00:49:04.068 --> 00:49:05.909
So I'm not really sure what the solution

00:49:05.929 --> 00:49:07.769
would be that doesn't collect this much

00:49:07.809 --> 00:49:08.429
information.

00:49:08.791 --> 00:49:11.731
Um, yeah,

00:49:12.032 --> 00:49:13.692
it kind of just is a really crappy

00:49:13.731 --> 00:49:14.592
situation.

00:49:14.972 --> 00:49:15.012
Um,

00:49:19.297 --> 00:49:20.818
Yep.

00:49:20.878 --> 00:49:21.199
All right.

00:49:21.219 --> 00:49:22.780
Well, if that's all we got,

00:49:22.820 --> 00:49:24.081
I think we'll move on to this next

00:49:24.101 --> 00:49:26.603
story from Mozilla.

00:49:26.704 --> 00:49:27.125
All righty.

00:49:27.425 --> 00:49:29.146
So this will be a fun one.

00:49:29.827 --> 00:49:31.869
This is some research from Mozilla that

00:49:31.909 --> 00:49:32.789
says, well,

00:49:32.809 --> 00:49:34.851
sort of from Mozilla that says your period

00:49:34.891 --> 00:49:37.614
should your period data should be private.

00:49:39.715 --> 00:49:41.117
This is sort of from Mozilla because they

00:49:41.177 --> 00:49:42.277
actually work together with the

00:49:42.338 --> 00:49:44.278
transparency hub at Harvard's Berkman

00:49:44.318 --> 00:49:45.019
Klein Center and

00:49:45.606 --> 00:49:47.409
and the Siebel school of computing and

00:49:47.449 --> 00:49:49.873
data science at the university of Illinois

00:49:50.735 --> 00:49:52.577
to examine historical changes to the

00:49:52.597 --> 00:49:54.422
privacy policies and provide additional

00:49:54.561 --> 00:49:55.483
Android testing.

00:49:55.603 --> 00:49:56.284
So, um,

00:49:59.351 --> 00:49:59.632
I mean,

00:50:00.733 --> 00:50:01.974
I'm actually going to read what they wrote

00:50:01.994 --> 00:50:03.496
because it's pretty short and I think it's

00:50:03.536 --> 00:50:03.896
pretty good.

00:50:04.677 --> 00:50:05.679
So it says the data we keep on

00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:06.619
our phones is sensitive.

00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:07.199
For women,

00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:08.802
period data is one of the most sensitive

00:50:08.822 --> 00:50:10.242
data points we share with our device.

00:50:10.423 --> 00:50:11.925
That's because period tracking apps aren't

00:50:11.945 --> 00:50:13.226
just about when your period happens.

00:50:13.507 --> 00:50:14.748
Apps in this space ask you to log

00:50:14.788 --> 00:50:16.230
extremely intimate details so it can

00:50:16.250 --> 00:50:17.451
predict your cycle or help you get

00:50:17.490 --> 00:50:18.751
pregnant from when you bleed,

00:50:18.771 --> 00:50:20.014
but also when you've had late night

00:50:20.034 --> 00:50:21.355
chocolate craving and even when you have a

00:50:21.394 --> 00:50:21.876
miscarriage.

00:50:22.295 --> 00:50:23.396
In a post-OBs landscape,

00:50:23.436 --> 00:50:24.697
we believe safeguarding this data and

00:50:24.717 --> 00:50:26.018
keeping it private is more important than

00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:26.318
ever.

00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:28.739
Our privacy expert Shoshana Wadinski did

00:50:28.780 --> 00:50:30.842
hands-on testing of six popular period

00:50:30.882 --> 00:50:33.003
tracking apps, Yuki, Clue, Flow,

00:50:33.063 --> 00:50:34.603
Period Calendar, Planned Parenthood,

00:50:34.623 --> 00:50:35.744
SpotOn, and Stardust.

00:50:36.085 --> 00:50:37.505
We discovered data sharing to analytics

00:50:37.545 --> 00:50:38.626
companies, privacy washing,

00:50:38.887 --> 00:50:40.367
but also a standout option when it comes

00:50:40.387 --> 00:50:41.268
to keeping data safe.

00:50:41.914 --> 00:50:47.239
So you can see here that they did

00:50:47.278 --> 00:50:49.260
like a ten-point scale.

00:50:50.322 --> 00:50:51.842
Yuki got a perfect ten,

00:50:51.943 --> 00:50:53.324
and for the record, if you click these,

00:50:53.804 --> 00:50:54.885
if you go to the website,

00:50:54.925 --> 00:50:56.407
which Jordan mentioned earlier,

00:50:56.447 --> 00:50:58.869
this should all be in the newsletter that

00:50:58.889 --> 00:50:59.451
you can go see,

00:50:59.510 --> 00:51:01.552
privacyguides.org slash livestreams,

00:51:01.693 --> 00:51:02.512
plural, I think.

00:51:03.427 --> 00:51:04.306
I usually get that wrong.

00:51:05.407 --> 00:51:05.967
I think it's plural.

00:51:06.068 --> 00:51:08.309
But yeah, you'll find the link in there.

00:51:08.509 --> 00:51:11.130
And Yuki, if you click on it,

00:51:11.170 --> 00:51:12.190
it'll take you... Oh, yeah,

00:51:12.210 --> 00:51:12.971
it's going to load right in here,

00:51:13.010 --> 00:51:13.251
actually.

00:51:13.291 --> 00:51:17.052
It'll take you to a full expanded,

00:51:17.072 --> 00:51:18.373
you know,

00:51:19.052 --> 00:51:20.293
should I trust their default settings?

00:51:20.353 --> 00:51:21.614
What personal data do they collect?

00:51:21.653 --> 00:51:22.833
What's their track record?

00:51:22.873 --> 00:51:23.835
The good and the bad,

00:51:23.994 --> 00:51:24.894
so on and so forth.

00:51:24.974 --> 00:51:25.815
And they do that for each one of

00:51:25.835 --> 00:51:25.974
them.

00:51:26.795 --> 00:51:27.115
So yeah,

00:51:27.155 --> 00:51:28.536
Flow is a very popular one I've heard

00:51:28.576 --> 00:51:28.695
of.

00:51:28.777 --> 00:51:29.556
Stardust is...

00:51:30.873 --> 00:51:33.195
a very popular one because they've all got

00:51:33.235 --> 00:51:33.976
pretty websites,

00:51:34.016 --> 00:51:36.177
but Stardust actually rated the worst two

00:51:36.217 --> 00:51:36.637
out of ten.

00:51:37.438 --> 00:51:40.159
Yuki is one we do recommend on privacy

00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.402
guides, and that is all, I believe,

00:51:43.442 --> 00:51:44.722
entirely on device.

00:51:45.344 --> 00:51:47.824
I think there's even ways to lock it

00:51:47.844 --> 00:51:50.146
down to make the data erase if you

00:51:50.186 --> 00:51:50.447
need to.

00:51:50.507 --> 00:51:52.768
I could be wrong about that, but yeah,

00:51:52.949 --> 00:51:53.108
it's...

00:51:54.708 --> 00:51:56.048
It's pretty cool, I guess.

00:51:57.228 --> 00:51:58.750
I'm a cis male.

00:51:58.909 --> 00:52:00.610
I've never used any of these myself,

00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:01.710
but I know my wife has come to

00:52:01.731 --> 00:52:03.351
me a few times about like, hey,

00:52:03.371 --> 00:52:04.251
I've heard about this one.

00:52:04.291 --> 00:52:05.532
What do you know about this?

00:52:05.911 --> 00:52:07.452
Clue is one that I'm particularly mad at

00:52:07.472 --> 00:52:08.773
because that was one that she heard about

00:52:08.793 --> 00:52:09.652
and came to me and was like, hey,

00:52:09.672 --> 00:52:10.693
could you look into this for me?

00:52:11.293 --> 00:52:13.255
And their marketing on their website is

00:52:13.335 --> 00:52:16.135
all like, oh, we can't turn over data.

00:52:16.195 --> 00:52:17.356
But then when you read their privacy

00:52:17.396 --> 00:52:17.735
policy,

00:52:17.755 --> 00:52:19.336
it's like we use these twenty analytics

00:52:19.356 --> 00:52:20.996
companies and eighteen of them are based

00:52:21.018 --> 00:52:21.818
in the US and

00:52:22.498 --> 00:52:24.057
So I'm particularly pissed off at them

00:52:24.077 --> 00:52:25.518
because I feel like they're really lulling

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:27.039
users into a false sense of security.

00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.481
But... Oh, Flo has an AI chatbot.

00:52:31.541 --> 00:52:32.141
How cute.

00:52:32.260 --> 00:52:34.021
I'm sure there's nothing wrong with that.

00:52:34.722 --> 00:52:35.362
So, yeah.

00:52:36.402 --> 00:52:37.702
This is just... I mean,

00:52:37.742 --> 00:52:39.322
health data in general is really

00:52:39.362 --> 00:52:39.822
sensitive.

00:52:40.503 --> 00:52:42.143
And I feel like this is another area...

00:52:42.164 --> 00:52:43.204
There's a lot of areas where...

00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:45.478
I'm gonna get on my soapbox here.

00:52:45.498 --> 00:52:47.059
There's a lot of areas where privacy

00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:48.699
developers,

00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:50.760
and I feel bad when I criticize

00:52:50.780 --> 00:52:51.561
developers, because again,

00:52:51.661 --> 00:52:52.400
I don't know any code,

00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:53.681
so I cannot be part of the solution

00:52:53.721 --> 00:52:53.882
here.

00:52:54.362 --> 00:52:55.641
But there's a lot of areas where privacy

00:52:55.661 --> 00:52:57.523
developers focus too much attention.

00:52:57.583 --> 00:52:58.463
Like I swear to God,

00:52:58.882 --> 00:53:00.322
you can throw a rock and hit ten

00:53:00.362 --> 00:53:01.182
encrypted messengers.

00:53:02.523 --> 00:53:04.443
But then there's other like very simple,

00:53:05.085 --> 00:53:06.525
like there's not a lot of to-do lists

00:53:06.625 --> 00:53:06.945
out there.

00:53:08.065 --> 00:53:09.905
There's not a lot of really good quality.

00:53:10.226 --> 00:53:11.965
There's like one calorie tracker that

00:53:11.985 --> 00:53:12.887
looks like it was built in like,

00:53:14.228 --> 00:53:15.416
There's not a lot of...

00:53:17.164 --> 00:53:18.126
I'm trying to think what else there,

00:53:18.146 --> 00:53:18.666
I don't know.

00:53:18.686 --> 00:53:19.925
There's just, there's, I mean,

00:53:19.945 --> 00:53:21.467
there's also like million Bible apps for

00:53:21.507 --> 00:53:21.907
some reason.

00:53:22.007 --> 00:53:22.827
I'm not sure why that is.

00:53:22.887 --> 00:53:23.568
I don't really care.

00:53:23.688 --> 00:53:24.768
I just find that interesting that if you

00:53:24.789 --> 00:53:25.349
go to F droid,

00:53:25.369 --> 00:53:26.489
there's like a million Bible apps,

00:53:26.989 --> 00:53:28.451
but it's just,

00:53:28.471 --> 00:53:30.032
there's certain things in privacy that are

00:53:30.172 --> 00:53:31.472
overrepresented and certain things that

00:53:31.492 --> 00:53:32.393
are underrepresented.

00:53:32.713 --> 00:53:34.414
And I feel like health in general is

00:53:34.494 --> 00:53:35.614
one of those things where we just don't

00:53:35.655 --> 00:53:38.516
have enough good quality health options

00:53:38.576 --> 00:53:38.936
out there.

00:53:38.996 --> 00:53:40.376
So I don't know.

00:53:40.416 --> 00:53:41.637
It's good to know that Yuki did well.

00:53:41.717 --> 00:53:42.898
I think there's a couple others we

00:53:42.938 --> 00:53:44.199
recommend on the website.

00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:44.960
Um,

00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:46.800
But yeah, if you,

00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:49.380
I'm assuming most of us,

00:53:49.541 --> 00:53:50.762
unless you are an extreme hermit,

00:53:51.161 --> 00:53:52.842
probably know at least a few women.

00:53:53.262 --> 00:53:55.943
Definitely go ahead and send this to your

00:53:55.963 --> 00:53:56.463
friends,

00:53:56.804 --> 00:53:58.425
send this to your family and let them

00:53:58.445 --> 00:53:59.445
know about this kind of stuff.

00:53:59.625 --> 00:54:01.746
But I don't know that I have anything

00:54:01.806 --> 00:54:03.346
too specific to add to this story.

00:54:03.385 --> 00:54:04.487
I just thought it was a really important

00:54:04.527 --> 00:54:06.867
story that deserved to be mentioned.

00:54:07.788 --> 00:54:10.009
And I'm glad that our recommendation

00:54:10.248 --> 00:54:11.009
performed so well.

00:54:12.838 --> 00:54:13.400
Yeah, definitely.

00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:15.021
It's definitely good to see that things

00:54:15.202 --> 00:54:16.963
are, you know,

00:54:17.083 --> 00:54:19.327
our rigorous process is also, you know,

00:54:19.547 --> 00:54:22.210
being approved and confirmed,

00:54:23.251 --> 00:54:24.172
which is great.

00:54:24.231 --> 00:54:25.534
I think I do want to add here

00:54:27.556 --> 00:54:28.396
kind of quickly.

00:54:28.878 --> 00:54:29.217
I don't know,

00:54:29.277 --> 00:54:31.340
this article mentions like women a lot.

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:32.561
Like, I just want to mention like,

00:54:32.661 --> 00:54:32.902
you know,

00:54:34.012 --> 00:54:34.673
Not just women,

00:54:34.733 --> 00:54:36.896
like just people that menstruate.

00:54:37.215 --> 00:54:37.695
Just saying.

00:54:37.715 --> 00:54:39.938
You've got to be a bit more inclusive

00:54:39.958 --> 00:54:41.059
there.

00:54:41.398 --> 00:54:45.163
I think the interesting thing here is some

00:54:45.182 --> 00:54:46.403
of the stuff that they talk about that

00:54:46.443 --> 00:54:47.925
kind of goes over my head and,

00:54:48.525 --> 00:54:48.746
you know,

00:54:48.766 --> 00:54:50.387
maybe this is something that people who

00:54:50.427 --> 00:54:52.268
don't menstruate don't realise.

00:54:54.751 --> 00:54:55.811
I don't know how much you can talk

00:54:55.851 --> 00:54:56.693
about this, obviously,

00:54:56.713 --> 00:54:58.094
because this is more of a US thing.

00:54:58.313 --> 00:55:00.795
This is not really a thing in Australia.

00:55:00.856 --> 00:55:01.436
But what is...

00:55:02.994 --> 00:55:04.976
kind of the risks with this because as

00:55:05.036 --> 00:55:08.840
I understand it there's quite a situation

00:55:08.961 --> 00:55:11.344
regarding like abortion and stuff like is

00:55:11.384 --> 00:55:14.146
this really as risky as as the article

00:55:14.186 --> 00:55:20.414
is saying like so um I don't know

00:55:20.454 --> 00:55:22.016
how qualified I am to talk on this

00:55:22.056 --> 00:55:23.217
because I have not been following it

00:55:23.257 --> 00:55:24.057
closely but

00:55:25.315 --> 00:55:27.197
Okay, this is purely personal opinion.

00:55:27.456 --> 00:55:29.297
Well, okay, this part's not.

00:55:29.597 --> 00:55:32.278
So Post Dobbs is talking about – so

00:55:32.398 --> 00:55:33.179
in the sixties,

00:55:33.358 --> 00:55:35.340
we had this case in the US called

00:55:35.420 --> 00:55:36.280
Roe versus Wade.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.940
And basically what the Supreme Court – the

00:55:39.141 --> 00:55:42.568
US Supreme Court decided that – and –

00:55:43.157 --> 00:55:43.697
This is true,

00:55:43.737 --> 00:55:44.759
which is going to lead to the opinion

00:55:44.798 --> 00:55:44.978
part.

00:55:45.820 --> 00:55:46.280
Basically,

00:55:46.300 --> 00:55:47.922
they said that the government does not

00:55:47.961 --> 00:55:49.844
have a right to a woman's body and

00:55:49.864 --> 00:55:51.646
that that is like a privacy issue.

00:55:52.266 --> 00:55:54.489
And like like it's not really the

00:55:54.509 --> 00:55:56.911
government's place to tell somebody that

00:55:56.931 --> 00:55:57.871
they can't get an abortion.

00:55:58.586 --> 00:56:01.208
And that effectively legalized abortion in

00:56:01.228 --> 00:56:04.010
the US for decades until a few years

00:56:04.050 --> 00:56:06.572
ago when somebody challenged it and the

00:56:06.612 --> 00:56:07.253
Supreme Court,

00:56:07.313 --> 00:56:08.494
who is now stacked with conservative

00:56:08.534 --> 00:56:09.793
judges, decided, you know what?

00:56:09.853 --> 00:56:10.474
Yeah, well,

00:56:11.476 --> 00:56:12.775
this is not something that the federal

00:56:12.795 --> 00:56:13.677
government should decide on.

00:56:13.737 --> 00:56:14.918
This is something that should be decided

00:56:14.938 --> 00:56:15.657
at the state level.

00:56:16.458 --> 00:56:17.438
And then all of a sudden,

00:56:17.458 --> 00:56:18.980
a whole bunch of conservative states raced

00:56:19.001 --> 00:56:20.400
to introduce anti-abortion laws.

00:56:21.702 --> 00:56:23.282
Texas decided to make a point out of

00:56:23.382 --> 00:56:24.264
one particular woman.

00:56:24.764 --> 00:56:25.724
I will die on that hill.

00:56:26.085 --> 00:56:26.726
Yeah.

00:56:27.545 --> 00:56:28.987
The opinion part that I want to throw

00:56:29.027 --> 00:56:30.307
out there is I really think this was

00:56:30.367 --> 00:56:30.969
the wrong way.

00:56:31.068 --> 00:56:33.010
Even if you are – like even if

00:56:33.030 --> 00:56:33.990
you think abortion is murder,

00:56:34.130 --> 00:56:35.172
I don't think this was the right way

00:56:35.192 --> 00:56:37.594
to go about that because, again,

00:56:37.753 --> 00:56:39.155
the Supreme Court said this is about the

00:56:39.175 --> 00:56:40.416
government saying they don't have a right

00:56:40.436 --> 00:56:40.956
to your body.

00:56:41.516 --> 00:56:43.297
And I think that's a really weird one

00:56:43.318 --> 00:56:44.438
that you want to fight to get your

00:56:44.458 --> 00:56:44.639
way.

00:56:44.759 --> 00:56:46.019
But I digress.

00:56:47.101 --> 00:56:47.340
Yeah,

00:56:47.380 --> 00:56:50.563
so in – I don't know how much

00:56:50.603 --> 00:56:51.744
it has been exercised.

00:56:51.784 --> 00:56:52.684
Like it's definitely –

00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:56.922
We've definitely seen situations where I

00:56:56.943 --> 00:56:57.902
don't know that they're necessarily

00:56:57.943 --> 00:56:58.623
privacy related.

00:56:58.643 --> 00:56:59.724
But again, OK, so in Texas,

00:56:59.744 --> 00:57:03.268
there was a lady that I might have

00:57:03.307 --> 00:57:04.389
the finer details here wrong.

00:57:04.469 --> 00:57:06.590
But basically, like.

00:57:08.512 --> 00:57:10.554
I think the OK,

00:57:10.574 --> 00:57:11.795
forgive me if I get the details wrong,

00:57:11.815 --> 00:57:13.335
but it's not too far off from this.

00:57:14.951 --> 00:57:16.672
The fetus is not going to be born.

00:57:16.871 --> 00:57:17.771
I mean this was a long time ago,

00:57:17.811 --> 00:57:19.032
so I should be talking past tense.

00:57:19.052 --> 00:57:20.373
But the fetus was not going to be

00:57:20.393 --> 00:57:21.893
born, period.

00:57:21.913 --> 00:57:23.873
But no doctor was willing to operate

00:57:24.054 --> 00:57:25.454
because they knew that they would get in

00:57:25.494 --> 00:57:27.635
legal trouble for performing an abortion

00:57:28.034 --> 00:57:29.715
even though medically she needed it and

00:57:29.735 --> 00:57:31.335
there was zero chance that the fetus was

00:57:31.376 --> 00:57:32.135
going to survive.

00:57:32.615 --> 00:57:33.556
And if they don't operate,

00:57:33.576 --> 00:57:34.916
there's a pretty good chance she won't

00:57:34.956 --> 00:57:35.617
survive either.

00:57:36.416 --> 00:57:38.378
And Ken Paxton still refused to make an

00:57:38.418 --> 00:57:40.519
exception for them because like nobody

00:57:40.539 --> 00:57:40.820
wanted it.

00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:42.722
So like they literally put someone's life

00:57:42.742 --> 00:57:44.143
at risk just to make a statement out

00:57:44.163 --> 00:57:45.503
of her to make this an anti-abortion

00:57:45.543 --> 00:57:45.744
thing.

00:57:45.804 --> 00:57:49.666
So this is having like real impacts on

00:57:49.706 --> 00:57:51.128
people and their lives and.

00:57:51.987 --> 00:57:54.248
It's – I don't know.

00:57:54.909 --> 00:57:55.168
Again,

00:57:55.329 --> 00:57:56.489
I have not kept too close of an

00:57:56.548 --> 00:57:56.909
eye on this,

00:57:56.929 --> 00:57:59.809
so I don't know exactly how many privacy

00:58:00.949 --> 00:58:02.710
invasions this has resulted in.

00:58:02.751 --> 00:58:04.471
But I do know that this is definitely

00:58:04.530 --> 00:58:07.371
like – it basically chipped away at your

00:58:07.411 --> 00:58:09.072
protections from the government for

00:58:09.112 --> 00:58:09.592
privacy.

00:58:09.692 --> 00:58:11.413
So yeah, it's –

00:58:12.983 --> 00:58:13.583
It's not great.

00:58:13.784 --> 00:58:14.764
And it's, again,

00:58:15.304 --> 00:58:16.284
this is one of those things that the

00:58:16.304 --> 00:58:17.784
Supreme Court decided is now a state

00:58:17.824 --> 00:58:18.144
issue.

00:58:18.565 --> 00:58:20.365
So some states have still legalized

00:58:20.405 --> 00:58:20.846
abortion.

00:58:21.266 --> 00:58:22.206
Some states have not.

00:58:22.606 --> 00:58:25.987
Some states you can with certain caveats,

00:58:26.547 --> 00:58:27.907
like if it was a sexual assault that

00:58:27.967 --> 00:58:31.728
resulted in the child, it's, yeah,

00:58:31.947 --> 00:58:32.688
I don't know.

00:58:32.807 --> 00:58:35.588
It's a whole, it's a mess.

00:58:36.208 --> 00:58:36.648
It's a mess.

00:58:36.688 --> 00:58:38.228
But I think people are right to be

00:58:38.268 --> 00:58:39.889
worried about it because if you live in

00:58:39.949 --> 00:58:41.170
one of those red states and one of

00:58:41.190 --> 00:58:41.769
these apps,

00:58:43.001 --> 00:58:45.141
decides that um like if you had a

00:58:45.181 --> 00:58:47.242
miscarriage you could look at the metadata

00:58:47.262 --> 00:58:49.143
of the app and it could suggest that

00:58:49.184 --> 00:58:50.704
maybe you had an abortion you know it's

00:58:51.344 --> 00:58:52.324
like it's one of those things where the

00:58:52.344 --> 00:58:53.945
metadata can sometimes tell a misleading

00:58:53.965 --> 00:58:55.646
story so it's definitely something that i

00:58:55.686 --> 00:58:58.987
think people at very least should have on

00:58:59.007 --> 00:59:00.889
their radar and should pay attention to

00:59:01.748 --> 00:59:03.130
regardless of their political beliefs

00:59:03.170 --> 00:59:05.931
because there's no protections there

00:59:05.971 --> 00:59:07.972
anymore so i don't know i don't know

00:59:07.992 --> 00:59:08.512
if that made sense

00:59:09.858 --> 00:59:10.577
Yeah, I guess.

00:59:10.697 --> 00:59:10.858
Yeah.

00:59:11.018 --> 00:59:11.777
I, I think it's good.

00:59:11.797 --> 00:59:12.838
You're bringing it back to like the

00:59:12.878 --> 00:59:14.099
privacy aspect, right?

00:59:14.139 --> 00:59:18.880
Like this is important data that could put

00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:20.739
people at significant risk, right?

00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:23.420
Because, um,

00:59:23.460 --> 00:59:28.181
no matter how you feel about abortion, um,

00:59:28.202 --> 00:59:31.802
you know, this data is, um, you know,

00:59:31.842 --> 00:59:34.163
if someone wants to get an abortion, uh,

00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:38.981
then that data could be problematic,

00:59:39.742 --> 00:59:40.922
could mean that they get jailed.

00:59:41.184 --> 00:59:44.385
This is a significant issue.

00:59:44.585 --> 00:59:48.327
This is data that could put you in

00:59:48.387 --> 00:59:49.208
prison, basically.

00:59:52.664 --> 00:59:55.168
So take it with a grain of salt

00:59:55.188 --> 00:59:57.512
because this is the AI summary from Brave.

00:59:57.992 --> 01:00:00.195
But according to the AI summary,

01:00:00.235 --> 01:00:02.157
there have been criminal prosecutions and

01:00:02.197 --> 01:00:04.360
data subpoenas because the Roe v.

01:00:04.380 --> 01:00:07.905
Wade protections are no longer in place.

01:00:09.264 --> 01:00:10.585
They said there was a Mississippi mother

01:00:10.605 --> 01:00:11.826
who was accused of murder after

01:00:11.846 --> 01:00:13.327
investigators used her online search

01:00:13.367 --> 01:00:15.168
history for abortion medications as

01:00:15.248 --> 01:00:16.610
evidence following a stillbirth.

01:00:17.550 --> 01:00:18.811
And for the record, these are summaries.

01:00:18.951 --> 01:00:20.492
I don't know if these people are actually

01:00:20.532 --> 01:00:21.572
guilty of anything or not.

01:00:22.173 --> 01:00:22.753
In another case,

01:00:22.793 --> 01:00:25.556
prosecutors secured a twenty-year sentence

01:00:25.576 --> 01:00:27.197
that was later overturned by using a

01:00:27.217 --> 01:00:28.619
woman's text messages to argue her

01:00:28.659 --> 01:00:30.300
miscarriage was self-induced abortion.

01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:32.561
A Texas man utilized his wife's private

01:00:32.581 --> 01:00:34.282
text messages regarding abortion pills to

01:00:34.742 --> 01:00:36.344
file a civil lawsuit against her and her

01:00:36.405 --> 01:00:36.784
friends.

01:00:38.443 --> 01:00:40.443
Um, so yeah, I mean,

01:00:40.483 --> 01:00:42.465
this is definitely having an impact for

01:00:42.505 --> 01:00:43.085
sure.

01:00:43.125 --> 01:00:46.045
So yeah.

01:00:46.226 --> 01:00:46.525
Yeah.

01:00:46.626 --> 01:00:49.668
I think as well, I believe, um,

01:00:49.688 --> 01:00:53.489
a former team member, uh, intern Kevin,

01:00:53.628 --> 01:00:57.331
I believe wrote an article reviewing.

01:00:59.076 --> 01:01:01.056
all sorts of these period tracking apps,

01:01:02.338 --> 01:01:04.259
which I'll just kind of bring this back

01:01:04.298 --> 01:01:05.699
to the tools here.

01:01:06.641 --> 01:01:08.981
This is on our health and wellness page.

01:01:09.523 --> 01:01:13.025
We recommend Drip, Yuki,

01:01:13.065 --> 01:01:14.505
like the one Nate mentioned,

01:01:15.106 --> 01:01:17.286
and also Apple Health for...

01:01:18.387 --> 01:01:21.711
um menstrual cycle tracking so if that's

01:01:21.751 --> 01:01:23.454
something that you know if you've been

01:01:23.534 --> 01:01:27.559
using like flow clue period calendar um I

01:01:27.579 --> 01:01:31.483
know there's a lot of different ones um

01:01:31.503 --> 01:01:31.824
that's

01:01:33.461 --> 01:01:34.961
definitely check out our recommendations.

01:01:35.523 --> 01:01:36.862
It's worth it, especially if you're,

01:01:37.143 --> 01:01:37.402
you know,

01:01:37.422 --> 01:01:42.664
living in a situation where you could be

01:01:42.684 --> 01:01:43.164
at risk.

01:01:43.764 --> 01:01:47.326
I think this is an easy switch for

01:01:47.346 --> 01:01:47.686
that.

01:01:48.326 --> 01:01:50.045
They do allow import of data as well.

01:01:50.065 --> 01:01:50.505
So, you know,

01:01:50.525 --> 01:01:53.887
you can export your data from those other

01:01:54.047 --> 01:01:55.827
less private apps imported in.

01:01:58.088 --> 01:02:00.128
I think it's definitely important to

01:02:00.998 --> 01:02:03.681
uh, be concerned about that, um,

01:02:03.740 --> 01:02:07.623
and not to become complacent because yeah,

01:02:07.704 --> 01:02:12.246
I think that's probably the most, uh,

01:02:12.266 --> 01:02:14.027
concerning thing about that situation,

01:02:14.047 --> 01:02:16.050
just like how quickly things can change,

01:02:16.630 --> 01:02:16.750
um,

01:02:16.829 --> 01:02:18.391
and how quickly things that you took for

01:02:18.431 --> 01:02:19.751
granted can disappear.

01:02:20.472 --> 01:02:22.733
Um, so, you know,

01:02:22.753 --> 01:02:25.155
don't become complacent because stuff

01:02:25.175 --> 01:02:27.697
that's legal today may not be, um,

01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.260
Why do you think Apple Health is private

01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:31.621
enough?

01:02:32.822 --> 01:02:35.206
Henrique asked in the chat.

01:02:38.070 --> 01:02:40.773
The main reason is because it uses

01:02:40.994 --> 01:02:44.097
end-to-end encryption with syncing.

01:02:44.557 --> 01:02:46.320
You also don't have to sync it either.

01:02:47.523 --> 01:02:50.806
um and you know basically no other app

01:02:50.867 --> 01:02:52.507
offers syncing with end-to-end encryption

01:02:52.929 --> 01:02:56.150
the other two apps are both offline so

01:02:56.371 --> 01:02:58.233
they don't sync at all which can be

01:02:58.253 --> 01:03:02.195
an issue but um apple is basically the

01:03:02.295 --> 01:03:05.099
only company that does end-to-end

01:03:05.139 --> 01:03:07.159
encryption on like health records and

01:03:07.179 --> 01:03:10.262
fitness data it is what it is it's

01:03:10.342 --> 01:03:10.742
the best

01:03:11.623 --> 01:03:12.244
that we have.

01:03:12.605 --> 01:03:14.146
Apple has problems as well.

01:03:14.925 --> 01:03:19.768
I think, you know, be careful with that.

01:03:19.849 --> 01:03:21.710
I think syncing the data is also more

01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:22.550
risky as well.

01:03:23.951 --> 01:03:25.711
And I believe that is something that Kevin

01:03:25.813 --> 01:03:27.273
did mention in that article.

01:03:29.434 --> 01:03:30.695
So just be aware of that, too.

01:03:32.181 --> 01:03:34.943
And, yeah, I don't know.

01:03:35.983 --> 01:03:36.643
It's tricky.

01:03:36.664 --> 01:03:38.005
You've got to use the best tool.

01:03:38.244 --> 01:03:40.525
I was talking about that to my sister,

01:03:40.545 --> 01:03:41.326
but she ignored.

01:03:41.626 --> 01:03:42.266
I mean, yeah,

01:03:42.286 --> 01:03:45.367
you've got to pick your battles, I guess.

01:03:45.387 --> 01:03:51.490
Sometimes some people don't get super

01:03:51.510 --> 01:03:53.291
engaged on something unless, you know,

01:03:53.472 --> 01:03:54.833
they're personally invested in it,

01:03:55.273 --> 01:03:56.112
which kind of sucks.

01:03:56.773 --> 01:03:58.414
But, yeah,

01:03:58.534 --> 01:04:00.355
we kind of talked about this a lot,

01:04:00.394 --> 01:04:00.896
but, like,

01:04:01.715 --> 01:04:01.934
you know,

01:04:01.954 --> 01:04:03.577
getting people to care about these issues

01:04:03.737 --> 01:04:06.501
is definitely something that doesn't

01:04:06.521 --> 01:04:07.382
happen overnight.

01:04:07.762 --> 01:04:09.445
So, you know,

01:04:09.465 --> 01:04:11.067
keep subtly pushing someone in the

01:04:11.086 --> 01:04:14.271
direction and maybe they'll finally

01:04:14.331 --> 01:04:14.771
understand.

01:04:16.791 --> 01:04:16.911
Yeah.

01:04:16.931 --> 01:04:17.893
And something I want to add on to

01:04:17.913 --> 01:04:20.914
that is, um, definitely try to resist the,

01:04:20.934 --> 01:04:22.576
uh, the urge to, I told you so,

01:04:23.097 --> 01:04:24.898
um, which I, I feel it too,

01:04:24.938 --> 01:04:27.000
for the record when like people that

01:04:27.059 --> 01:04:29.081
normally say they, you know, Oh,

01:04:29.101 --> 01:04:30.322
I have nothing to hide, whatever.

01:04:30.902 --> 01:04:32.204
And then something happens and they come

01:04:32.224 --> 01:04:32.943
running to you and they're like,

01:04:32.963 --> 01:04:33.704
Oh my God, what do I do?

01:04:33.724 --> 01:04:34.244
And it's like, well,

01:04:34.264 --> 01:04:35.385
if you'd have listened to me a year

01:04:35.425 --> 01:04:37.347
ago, you wouldn't be in this situation,

01:04:37.407 --> 01:04:39.268
but try, try not to do that.

01:04:39.469 --> 01:04:39.708
Um,

01:04:39.728 --> 01:04:40.670
cause then they're just not going to come

01:04:40.690 --> 01:04:41.510
back to you next time.

01:04:41.590 --> 01:04:41.751
So

01:04:42.677 --> 01:04:44.697
yeah it's it sucks it really does suck

01:04:44.717 --> 01:04:46.699
that most people don't care until they're

01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:48.601
in the fire and then at that point

01:04:48.621 --> 01:04:50.041
they just want like you know it's like

01:04:50.061 --> 01:04:51.543
doxing right like people will come to you

01:04:51.563 --> 01:04:52.422
and they're like oh my god i'm being

01:04:52.463 --> 01:04:53.623
doxed what do i do and it's like

01:04:54.684 --> 01:04:55.605
what do you want me to do i

01:04:55.625 --> 01:04:56.945
can't take the information off the

01:04:56.985 --> 01:04:58.266
internet like yeah there's stuff we can

01:04:58.746 --> 01:05:00.867
try to do but it's i mean really

01:05:01.007 --> 01:05:02.409
unless you're gonna move there's nothing

01:05:02.429 --> 01:05:03.449
we can really do but wait for it

01:05:03.469 --> 01:05:06.931
to blow over and it sucks but it

01:05:06.992 --> 01:05:08.313
is what it is um

01:05:09.505 --> 01:05:09.885
I was going to say,

01:05:09.905 --> 01:05:11.786
I'm pretty sure my wife is using Yugi

01:05:12.007 --> 01:05:13.347
and I think she was pretty happy with

01:05:13.387 --> 01:05:13.487
it.

01:05:13.668 --> 01:05:15.949
So yeah.

01:05:16.010 --> 01:05:19.632
I will also say these apps do a

01:05:19.672 --> 01:05:21.153
lot more than just period tracking.

01:05:22.456 --> 01:05:24.056
So if you need tracking for any sort

01:05:24.077 --> 01:05:25.677
of like sexual health stuff,

01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:28.019
definitely check it out.

01:05:28.219 --> 01:05:29.541
Even just tracking mood stuff.

01:05:29.780 --> 01:05:30.561
It's good as well.

01:05:30.961 --> 01:05:32.143
So yeah.

01:05:33.362 --> 01:05:36.864
Yeah, not only for people that menstruate,

01:05:36.943 --> 01:05:38.503
but yeah,

01:05:38.704 --> 01:05:40.224
definitely worth checking out if you're

01:05:40.284 --> 01:05:41.565
using something that's less private.

01:05:41.585 --> 01:05:43.146
Yeah,

01:05:43.166 --> 01:05:44.047
I was going to say it's helped her

01:05:44.146 --> 01:05:45.467
understand a lot more because, you know,

01:05:45.487 --> 01:05:46.628
since it's like hormone related,

01:05:46.648 --> 01:05:48.748
like sometimes she's just naturally more

01:05:48.789 --> 01:05:51.409
tired and other times she has more energy

01:05:51.449 --> 01:05:52.630
and just being able to track that has

01:05:52.650 --> 01:05:58.452
helped her with that stuff too.

01:05:59.173 --> 01:06:01.335
I think that's all we've got for stories

01:06:01.635 --> 01:06:02.014
so far.

01:06:04.266 --> 01:06:04.766
Awesome.

01:06:04.806 --> 01:06:05.025
Cool.

01:06:05.065 --> 01:06:06.927
I guess we can roll into some forum

01:06:06.967 --> 01:06:07.646
updates then.

01:06:09.188 --> 01:06:09.547
In a minute,

01:06:09.568 --> 01:06:11.028
we'll start taking viewer questions.

01:06:11.108 --> 01:06:12.648
So if you've been holding on to any

01:06:12.688 --> 01:06:14.230
questions about any of the stories we've

01:06:14.250 --> 01:06:15.309
been talking about so far,

01:06:16.210 --> 01:06:17.851
go ahead and start leaving them on the

01:06:17.871 --> 01:06:20.351
forum thread or in the comments section on

01:06:20.371 --> 01:06:21.032
the live stream.

01:06:21.512 --> 01:06:22.672
But for now,

01:06:22.992 --> 01:06:25.273
let's check in on our community forum.

01:06:25.333 --> 01:06:26.795
There's always a lot of activity on the

01:06:26.815 --> 01:06:27.454
forum, but...

01:06:28.155 --> 01:06:31.195
Here's one particular thread that we

01:06:31.215 --> 01:06:34.277
thought was worth highlighting this week.

01:06:34.396 --> 01:06:36.217
So I'll give a quick overview and then

01:06:36.237 --> 01:06:37.416
I'll throw it back to you, Nate.

01:06:38.538 --> 01:06:41.057
Briar is in maintenance mode.

01:06:41.637 --> 01:06:45.619
This is a post from the Briar project.

01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:47.260
This is a quick update about the status

01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:47.780
of Briar.

01:06:48.260 --> 01:06:49.000
Short version,

01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:50.721
the project is still active,

01:06:50.780 --> 01:06:52.621
but we're only making essential security

01:06:52.681 --> 01:06:54.981
updates and bug fixes for now.

01:06:57.664 --> 01:06:59.106
I guess the long version for several years

01:06:59.126 --> 01:07:00.505
we've been trying to find solutions to

01:07:00.545 --> 01:07:01.927
some of the longstanding issues with

01:07:01.947 --> 01:07:03.586
Briar, such as high battery usage,

01:07:04.148 --> 01:07:05.827
unreliable background operation on

01:07:05.947 --> 01:07:06.329
Android,

01:07:06.688 --> 01:07:08.568
missing features like account backup and

01:07:08.608 --> 01:07:09.429
file attachments,

01:07:09.849 --> 01:07:11.530
and a difficult user experience for adding

01:07:11.570 --> 01:07:13.751
contacts and communicating offline.

01:07:14.271 --> 01:07:16.092
We considered completely rebuilding the

01:07:16.132 --> 01:07:17.952
application from the ground up or even

01:07:18.012 --> 01:07:19.713
splitting it into a separate application

01:07:19.753 --> 01:07:21.034
for online and offline use.

01:07:21.474 --> 01:07:21.934
Meanwhile,

01:07:21.954 --> 01:07:23.574
the project didn't have funding.

01:07:23.976 --> 01:07:25.596
We were reluctant to look for funding

01:07:25.635 --> 01:07:27.077
without having a long-term plan.

01:07:27.617 --> 01:07:29.197
And so we could only work on Briar

01:07:29.237 --> 01:07:30.117
in our spare time.

01:07:30.677 --> 01:07:31.157
Last year,

01:07:31.177 --> 01:07:33.239
we decided that we wouldn't realistically

01:07:33.278 --> 01:07:34.518
be able to solve these issues.

01:07:35.019 --> 01:07:37.541
And so we reluctantly decided to shut down

01:07:37.581 --> 01:07:38.161
the project.

01:07:38.300 --> 01:07:40.041
We worked on releasing a final update for

01:07:40.141 --> 01:07:41.862
Android and desktop to allow the app to

01:07:41.882 --> 01:07:43.682
remain functional for as long as possible.

01:07:44.202 --> 01:07:44.802
In the meantime,

01:07:44.822 --> 01:07:46.443
we were hearing a lot of supportive words

01:07:46.463 --> 01:07:49.065
from people who we had told about the

01:07:49.085 --> 01:07:49.465
decision.

01:07:49.824 --> 01:07:52.085
The app continued to attract new users.

01:07:52.626 --> 01:07:53.326
So finally,

01:07:53.405 --> 01:07:55.246
we decided to continue the project in

01:07:55.327 --> 01:07:55.987
maintenance mode.

01:07:56.465 --> 01:07:58.266
We're only making essential security

01:07:58.326 --> 01:07:59.967
updates and bug fixes for now,

01:08:00.126 --> 01:08:01.708
but eventually we hope to make some

01:08:01.768 --> 01:08:03.748
incremental progress on these longstanding

01:08:03.809 --> 01:08:04.268
issues.

01:08:04.829 --> 01:08:06.409
We're sending out this update because some

01:08:06.449 --> 01:08:07.710
rumors have been circulating that the

01:08:07.731 --> 01:08:08.891
project is shutting down.

01:08:09.331 --> 01:08:11.313
Based on conversations we had with people

01:08:11.893 --> 01:08:13.813
in the internet freedom and privacy

01:08:13.853 --> 01:08:15.014
community last year,

01:08:15.494 --> 01:08:17.775
these rumors are out of date.

01:08:18.096 --> 01:08:19.818
The project is continuing.

01:08:20.677 --> 01:08:21.798
All right.

01:08:21.838 --> 01:08:22.538
What do you think, Nate?

01:08:27.256 --> 01:08:27.837
I think that's good.

01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:30.060
I know a minute ago I was just

01:08:30.081 --> 01:08:30.581
like, oh my God,

01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.622
there's too many messengers.

01:08:31.682 --> 01:08:33.645
But the reason I think there's too many

01:08:33.664 --> 01:08:35.908
messengers is because I think a lot of

01:08:35.927 --> 01:08:36.708
them are not...

01:08:37.869 --> 01:08:39.810
meaningfully reinventing the wheel.

01:08:40.671 --> 01:08:42.271
Not that every messenger has to be like

01:08:42.292 --> 01:08:43.632
completely unique from the ground up,

01:08:43.653 --> 01:08:43.932
but you know,

01:08:43.953 --> 01:08:45.434
a lot of them it's like, oh,

01:08:45.474 --> 01:08:47.135
it's just a different UI or like it

01:08:47.194 --> 01:08:49.216
routes through, you know,

01:08:49.416 --> 01:08:51.796
I to P instead of tour or whatever.

01:08:51.817 --> 01:08:52.096
And it just,

01:08:52.197 --> 01:08:53.537
it does all these little things that for

01:08:53.557 --> 01:08:54.497
the record, I guess, I mean,

01:08:54.518 --> 01:08:56.698
that's important to somebody, but again,

01:08:56.759 --> 01:08:58.380
I think there's other places developers

01:08:58.579 --> 01:09:00.480
should be focusing their attention in my

01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:00.862
opinion.

01:09:01.681 --> 01:09:03.283
But Briar is one of those ones that,

01:09:04.341 --> 01:09:04.501
I mean,

01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:05.921
I think my only beef with Briar is

01:09:05.942 --> 01:09:08.064
that it's not available on iOS,

01:09:08.224 --> 01:09:10.164
I don't think.

01:09:10.484 --> 01:09:12.627
Briar actually has a unique niche,

01:09:12.646 --> 01:09:14.368
which is that it can function offline.

01:09:15.389 --> 01:09:18.110
It can function peer-to-peer.

01:09:19.231 --> 01:09:20.453
The only time I've really used it

01:09:20.533 --> 01:09:21.653
personally is...

01:09:23.253 --> 01:09:24.654
Sometimes my wife and I will fly.

01:09:24.775 --> 01:09:26.957
And because I am very cheap,

01:09:27.177 --> 01:09:28.538
I will not spring the extra money to

01:09:28.559 --> 01:09:29.800
make sure that we get seats together.

01:09:30.341 --> 01:09:31.742
And usually you can just ask somebody and

01:09:31.761 --> 01:09:32.422
they'll switch like, Hey,

01:09:32.443 --> 01:09:33.344
do you mind if I have your seat

01:09:33.384 --> 01:09:34.265
so I can sit next to my wife

01:09:34.305 --> 01:09:34.685
or whatever?

01:09:35.966 --> 01:09:37.167
It's usually her asking actually,

01:09:37.306 --> 01:09:39.609
but sometimes we can't do that.

01:09:39.710 --> 01:09:41.331
And so we'll use Briar to like keep

01:09:41.350 --> 01:09:42.692
in touch while we're on the plane and

01:09:42.712 --> 01:09:43.613
we don't have cell signal.

01:09:43.672 --> 01:09:46.456
And which is, it's pretty interesting,

01:09:46.676 --> 01:09:47.417
but yeah,

01:09:47.516 --> 01:09:49.037
Uh, you know, there's,

01:09:49.137 --> 01:09:51.319
there's other actual use cases, you know,

01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:54.039
if you're in an area, um,

01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:55.320
like I could see this being useful in

01:09:55.341 --> 01:09:56.921
a, especially foreign countries.

01:09:56.962 --> 01:09:57.082
Like,

01:09:57.502 --> 01:09:59.122
was it Venezuela recently that had like

01:09:59.143 --> 01:10:00.023
really bad earthquakes?

01:10:00.583 --> 01:10:02.404
Like when you get outside the U S

01:10:02.423 --> 01:10:02.885
and Europe,

01:10:02.965 --> 01:10:04.525
the Android adoption rate is so much

01:10:04.565 --> 01:10:04.865
higher.

01:10:04.985 --> 01:10:06.345
And so a situation like that would be

01:10:06.386 --> 01:10:07.646
great for something like Briar.

01:10:08.067 --> 01:10:09.047
If you live in a country that has

01:10:09.068 --> 01:10:10.368
a really bad infrastructure,

01:10:10.387 --> 01:10:11.509
it could be great for something like

01:10:11.529 --> 01:10:11.969
Briar.

01:10:12.510 --> 01:10:12.869
So yeah.

01:10:13.649 --> 01:10:15.092
yeah i'm just i'm really glad to see

01:10:15.113 --> 01:10:17.898
that they are going to stick around even

01:10:17.938 --> 01:10:20.221
if it's just maintenance mode and i hope

01:10:20.261 --> 01:10:22.506
that they will be able to get the

01:10:22.525 --> 01:10:24.128
resources they need to keep developing

01:10:24.149 --> 01:10:25.351
because like they mentioned there are

01:10:26.542 --> 01:10:27.823
Some things that do genuinely need

01:10:27.863 --> 01:10:28.483
improvement, you know,

01:10:28.502 --> 01:10:29.904
better battery life.

01:10:30.704 --> 01:10:31.926
I mean, the UI, in my opinion,

01:10:31.945 --> 01:10:33.126
could use a little bit of an update.

01:10:33.787 --> 01:10:35.768
And I'm sure there's a whole host of

01:10:35.807 --> 01:10:37.229
things from people that actually use the

01:10:37.248 --> 01:10:38.149
project regularly.

01:10:38.210 --> 01:10:40.291
But yeah, I think it's really cool.

01:10:40.490 --> 01:10:41.731
I'm happy they're not going away.

01:10:41.971 --> 01:10:43.393
And I hope they will be able to

01:10:43.412 --> 01:10:46.515
get whatever they need to resume full

01:10:47.195 --> 01:10:50.037
development as soon as possible.

01:10:50.077 --> 01:10:50.898
I think that's my takeaway.

01:10:52.273 --> 01:10:53.493
Yeah, I definitely agree.

01:10:53.734 --> 01:10:53.934
Um,

01:10:53.993 --> 01:10:55.895
I think this has definitely been one of

01:10:55.935 --> 01:10:57.435
those apps that like, you know,

01:10:57.676 --> 01:10:58.716
like we saw in Iran,

01:10:58.777 --> 01:11:00.877
there was like a whole internet shutdown,

01:11:00.957 --> 01:11:01.179
right?

01:11:01.219 --> 01:11:01.819
Like, you know,

01:11:01.838 --> 01:11:03.600
you're not going to be able to use

01:11:03.619 --> 01:11:05.341
signal if the entire internet is down.

01:11:05.661 --> 01:11:07.762
Um, you know,

01:11:07.802 --> 01:11:10.503
having an app that can operate without

01:11:11.104 --> 01:11:13.025
accessing the internet is kind of

01:11:13.065 --> 01:11:13.605
important.

01:11:13.907 --> 01:11:15.087
And, um, um,

01:11:17.304 --> 01:11:18.024
Henrique said,

01:11:18.204 --> 01:11:19.747
probably simple X is enough for most

01:11:19.768 --> 01:11:20.068
people.

01:11:20.509 --> 01:11:20.849
No,

01:11:20.989 --> 01:11:22.270
because like if the internet

01:11:22.291 --> 01:11:23.412
infrastructure is down,

01:11:23.552 --> 01:11:26.818
then you're kind of, you know,

01:11:27.099 --> 01:11:27.739
what are you going to do?

01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:29.261
So if you don't have internet,

01:11:30.262 --> 01:11:31.664
that's why I think something like this is

01:11:32.086 --> 01:11:32.646
so important.

01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:38.798
All righty.

01:11:39.939 --> 01:11:40.381
I mean, yeah,

01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:41.662
I didn't really have much else to add

01:11:41.681 --> 01:11:41.902
to that.

01:11:42.021 --> 01:11:43.582
I also think I wanted to include this

01:11:43.603 --> 01:11:45.225
story just because Briar is one of our

01:11:45.265 --> 01:11:46.065
recommended tools.

01:11:46.145 --> 01:11:48.448
And they said rumors are going around that

01:11:48.467 --> 01:11:49.167
it's shutting down.

01:11:49.228 --> 01:11:50.389
So I guess I kind of wanted to

01:11:50.429 --> 01:11:51.489
signal boost that a little bit.

01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:55.153
But if that's all you have,

01:11:55.193 --> 01:11:56.795
I think that's all I have for that

01:11:56.875 --> 01:11:56.975
one.

01:11:59.377 --> 01:11:59.537
Yeah,

01:11:59.657 --> 01:12:01.538
I've never actually met anyone that used

01:12:01.599 --> 01:12:02.319
Briar before.

01:12:02.498 --> 01:12:03.900
So I've never actually used it.

01:12:04.461 --> 01:12:06.502
But it does seem really cool.

01:12:08.409 --> 01:12:08.911
Yeah, like I said,

01:12:08.930 --> 01:12:10.771
I've only used it in small bursts,

01:12:10.851 --> 01:12:13.414
but it's interesting to me for sure,

01:12:13.654 --> 01:12:14.155
especially...

01:12:15.036 --> 01:12:16.297
I was a little disappointed once I moved

01:12:16.318 --> 01:12:17.378
to Android, and I was like, oh,

01:12:17.418 --> 01:12:18.760
now I have access to things like Briar,

01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:20.402
and like you said, nobody uses it, but...

01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:22.400
Which is a bummer, because it's cool.

01:12:22.440 --> 01:12:22.780
But yeah,

01:12:22.820 --> 01:12:24.703
it takes a hit on your battery life

01:12:24.722 --> 01:12:25.922
for sure.

01:12:25.962 --> 01:12:27.904
But I think with that,

01:12:27.965 --> 01:12:30.546
we'll move into our Q&A segment.

01:12:31.167 --> 01:12:34.569
So we're going to start with our questions

01:12:34.649 --> 01:12:36.230
on the forum from our paying members.

01:12:36.811 --> 01:12:38.693
If you want to get priority in the

01:12:38.712 --> 01:12:39.233
Q&A,

01:12:39.353 --> 01:12:40.514
you can become a member by going to

01:12:40.554 --> 01:12:42.176
privacyguides.org slash donate.

01:12:42.676 --> 01:12:44.356
Or anywhere on privacyguides.org,

01:12:44.396 --> 01:12:45.938
you can click the red heart icon in

01:12:45.957 --> 01:12:47.539
the top right corner of the page.

01:12:48.500 --> 01:12:50.402
We did actually have one question that

01:12:50.421 --> 01:12:51.243
somebody left, I think,

01:12:52.264 --> 01:12:53.203
after we started streaming.

01:12:54.036 --> 01:12:54.376
It says,

01:12:55.275 --> 01:12:57.077
what are your thoughts on private message

01:12:57.237 --> 01:12:57.737
sharing?

01:12:57.796 --> 01:12:59.176
They say people will often share

01:12:59.237 --> 01:13:00.698
screenshots of messages between other

01:13:00.738 --> 01:13:01.018
people,

01:13:01.078 --> 01:13:02.257
whether that be in public groups or

01:13:02.297 --> 01:13:02.997
private messages.

01:13:03.377 --> 01:13:04.679
From people wanting to respect others'

01:13:04.738 --> 01:13:06.359
privacy, should we call this out more?

01:13:06.738 --> 01:13:07.878
Are there any factors that would make this

01:13:07.939 --> 01:13:08.259
okay,

01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:09.500
such as the person you are sharing them

01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:10.920
with, for example,

01:13:10.939 --> 01:13:12.319
a partner versus a large group?

01:13:12.961 --> 01:13:14.001
What else do you see people do that

01:13:14.020 --> 01:13:15.480
despite being privacy invasive of others

01:13:15.581 --> 01:13:16.480
often gets overlooked?

01:13:16.501 --> 01:13:17.921
I don't know about that last part.

01:13:17.942 --> 01:13:18.921
That kind of puts me on the spot.

01:13:18.981 --> 01:13:22.403
But yeah, I think it's very contextual.

01:13:22.523 --> 01:13:22.783
I think

01:13:24.990 --> 01:13:26.492
Personally speaking,

01:13:26.912 --> 01:13:31.134
I think – I don't know.

01:13:31.194 --> 01:13:32.335
I think it's a gray area because on

01:13:32.354 --> 01:13:32.795
the one hand,

01:13:33.194 --> 01:13:35.195
I think anything you do in a public

01:13:35.235 --> 01:13:38.016
space is kind of public,

01:13:38.238 --> 01:13:42.501
and you should not –

01:13:40.381 --> 01:13:42.363
necessarily expect privacy and i think

01:13:42.384 --> 01:13:43.384
that's a little bit different from like a

01:13:43.423 --> 01:13:45.024
right to be forgotten like personally i

01:13:45.064 --> 01:13:47.327
really love that mastodon has the ability

01:13:47.367 --> 01:13:50.609
to automatically erase old content and um

01:13:50.750 --> 01:13:51.850
i i wish i would see that on

01:13:51.890 --> 01:13:53.931
more websites and services because i think

01:13:53.952 --> 01:13:55.672
that's a great thing um like personally if

01:13:55.832 --> 01:13:57.253
i saw a screenshot in a public place

01:13:57.274 --> 01:13:59.176
like a public discord or a you know

01:13:59.235 --> 01:14:01.356
website i would be okay to share that

01:14:01.377 --> 01:14:02.618
on mastodon because i know that in three

01:14:02.658 --> 01:14:03.819
months it's not gonna be on my account

01:14:03.838 --> 01:14:06.140
anymore so it's not like i'm selling

01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:06.761
somebody out there

01:14:07.862 --> 01:14:09.362
Although I guess web archive exists,

01:14:09.721 --> 01:14:10.221
potentially.

01:14:12.002 --> 01:14:12.823
I think it's also different.

01:14:12.882 --> 01:14:13.603
Yeah, like, you know,

01:14:14.243 --> 01:14:15.563
my wife tells me everything.

01:14:15.603 --> 01:14:16.564
We tell each other everything.

01:14:16.623 --> 01:14:17.963
So I mean, saying like, hey,

01:14:17.984 --> 01:14:19.064
this person messaged this,

01:14:19.123 --> 01:14:22.664
I think is kind of a given,

01:14:24.265 --> 01:14:25.364
in my opinion, personally.

01:14:25.444 --> 01:14:26.485
But I think it's, yeah,

01:14:26.506 --> 01:14:27.485
I think it's very contextual.

01:14:27.826 --> 01:14:28.225
I don't think,

01:14:29.945 --> 01:14:31.246
if it's a one-to-one message,

01:14:31.527 --> 01:14:32.766
I don't think you should necessarily be

01:14:32.787 --> 01:14:33.827
sharing it with like,

01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:36.301
like on the forum or something.

01:14:36.320 --> 01:14:37.100
And I don't know, it's,

01:14:37.121 --> 01:14:38.662
it's really contextual of like what it is.

01:14:38.721 --> 01:14:39.262
You know, it's,

01:14:40.884 --> 01:14:42.265
I usually ask people to be honest.

01:14:42.305 --> 01:14:42.664
I'm like, Hey,

01:14:42.685 --> 01:14:43.626
do you mind if I share this?

01:14:43.666 --> 01:14:43.945
And I'll,

01:14:44.046 --> 01:14:46.347
I'll like censor certain information or

01:14:46.448 --> 01:14:49.088
I'll, I do.

01:14:49.250 --> 01:14:49.869
I mentioned before,

01:14:49.909 --> 01:14:51.270
I have a friend who's in law enforcement

01:14:51.291 --> 01:14:53.412
that shares information with me sometimes.

01:14:54.113 --> 01:14:56.935
And I will purposely never copy and paste

01:14:56.954 --> 01:14:57.954
him or screenshot him.

01:14:58.176 --> 01:14:59.697
I will like paraphrase what he said.

01:14:59.777 --> 01:15:01.797
Cause even like his, his speech patterns,

01:15:01.837 --> 01:15:02.958
I don't want that to get out there.

01:15:02.998 --> 01:15:03.158
So,

01:15:04.171 --> 01:15:04.532
I don't know.

01:15:06.171 --> 01:15:07.353
I think it's definitely something that

01:15:07.372 --> 01:15:08.653
people should think about a little more.

01:15:08.932 --> 01:15:11.634
If you're just too lazy to paraphrase the

01:15:11.654 --> 01:15:12.793
information or something,

01:15:13.134 --> 01:15:14.434
it really depends on what the information

01:15:14.493 --> 01:15:14.914
is, I think.

01:15:14.935 --> 01:15:15.375
I don't know.

01:15:15.675 --> 01:15:19.336
I don't know if I'm making sense.

01:15:19.355 --> 01:15:20.576
No, it definitely makes sense.

01:15:20.975 --> 01:15:24.176
I think you have to be very careful

01:15:24.617 --> 01:15:27.658
about sharing stuff that has been shared

01:15:27.677 --> 01:15:28.478
with you in private.

01:15:29.837 --> 01:15:30.997
I think some people are like...

01:15:31.819 --> 01:15:32.998
Some people definitely have this...

01:15:35.574 --> 01:15:38.317
this idea that there's no consent required

01:15:38.356 --> 01:15:38.637
for that.

01:15:38.757 --> 01:15:40.859
Like you'll take a photo with somebody and

01:15:40.878 --> 01:15:42.720
then suddenly they'll post it on every

01:15:42.761 --> 01:15:43.962
social media platform,

01:15:44.421 --> 01:15:46.083
post it everywhere publicly and link your

01:15:46.123 --> 01:15:46.783
identity to it.

01:15:46.884 --> 01:15:49.725
It's like, no, we need to normalize,

01:15:49.747 --> 01:15:49.987
you know,

01:15:51.603 --> 01:15:54.305
we need to normalize asking for consent

01:15:54.625 --> 01:15:57.707
and not just doing stuff because we think

01:15:57.728 --> 01:15:58.247
it's fine.

01:15:58.628 --> 01:16:00.449
Um, because, you know, maybe,

01:16:00.810 --> 01:16:01.730
maybe you're fine with that,

01:16:01.770 --> 01:16:03.792
but maybe they're not like, you know,

01:16:03.832 --> 01:16:04.313
you have to,

01:16:05.172 --> 01:16:08.695
you have to ask instead of just assuming,

01:16:09.356 --> 01:16:13.199
um, I guess, bring it back to, um,

01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:15.640
this person's question.

01:16:15.962 --> 01:16:16.141
Um,

01:16:17.761 --> 01:16:17.921
Yeah,

01:16:17.962 --> 01:16:19.323
I think you kind of just have to

01:16:19.344 --> 01:16:20.484
do as much as you can.

01:16:20.564 --> 01:16:22.086
Like if you're going to share someone

01:16:22.127 --> 01:16:23.006
else's messages,

01:16:23.046 --> 01:16:24.809
which I feel like you should ask them

01:16:24.828 --> 01:16:25.869
first if that's okay,

01:16:27.311 --> 01:16:28.432
black out their username,

01:16:28.472 --> 01:16:32.096
black out their profile picture,

01:16:32.136 --> 01:16:33.497
get their approval first.

01:16:33.537 --> 01:16:36.001
Don't just share like text messages from

01:16:36.041 --> 01:16:38.764
someone or messages from someone that you

01:16:38.844 --> 01:16:39.083
don't

01:16:40.597 --> 01:16:41.859
And I even think, you know,

01:16:41.899 --> 01:16:43.039
maybe this will be a hot take,

01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:44.079
but don't share, like,

01:16:44.300 --> 01:16:45.600
messages from an ex-partner.

01:16:45.661 --> 01:16:46.421
Like,

01:16:46.481 --> 01:16:47.662
especially if you're not talking to them

01:16:47.681 --> 01:16:47.983
anymore.

01:16:48.023 --> 01:16:50.043
Like, it's not right.

01:16:51.505 --> 01:16:51.805
You know,

01:16:51.984 --> 01:16:54.386
I don't like those sort of things where

01:16:54.426 --> 01:16:55.186
people just, like,

01:16:55.207 --> 01:16:57.469
share private messages with their partners

01:16:57.509 --> 01:16:58.448
that they don't have anymore.

01:16:58.488 --> 01:16:59.250
Like, that doesn't...

01:17:00.711 --> 01:17:01.853
That does feel like, you know,

01:17:01.872 --> 01:17:04.057
just because you're not in a relationship

01:17:04.078 --> 01:17:05.340
with that person anymore doesn't mean you

01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:07.345
can just disregard their consent

01:17:07.385 --> 01:17:07.926
completely.

01:17:09.909 --> 01:17:10.149
But...

01:17:13.096 --> 01:17:13.176
Yeah,

01:17:13.197 --> 01:17:14.398
I don't really have any more to add

01:17:14.457 --> 01:17:15.139
on that.

01:17:15.378 --> 01:17:15.560
I mean,

01:17:15.579 --> 01:17:18.221
there's some questions here coming in on

01:17:18.622 --> 01:17:19.484
the live stream.

01:17:20.083 --> 01:17:22.065
Do you think Graphene OS... Oh,

01:17:22.787 --> 01:17:24.309
Henrique said, I said on the internet.

01:17:24.408 --> 01:17:26.051
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:17:26.270 --> 01:17:28.033
So SimpleX is definitely a good option

01:17:28.052 --> 01:17:30.435
online and Briar is good for offline.

01:17:30.795 --> 01:17:32.716
Do you think Graphene OS desktop mode is

01:17:32.778 --> 01:17:34.498
better than having a desktop?

01:17:35.380 --> 01:17:35.780
Yeah.

01:17:38.001 --> 01:17:42.344
No, I think it's definitely got issues.

01:17:43.404 --> 01:17:43.685
Again,

01:17:43.765 --> 01:17:46.067
I don't have the latest Google Pixel,

01:17:46.087 --> 01:17:48.109
so maybe it's become better or it's

01:17:48.149 --> 01:17:50.010
supported a bit better on the Pixel X.

01:17:51.871 --> 01:17:53.171
But on my Pixel X,

01:17:53.733 --> 01:17:55.974
it is very low resolution.

01:17:56.033 --> 01:17:56.395
I think it's

01:18:03.259 --> 01:18:04.500
I would say it's not ready,

01:18:04.739 --> 01:18:07.341
but like if you need something and that's

01:18:07.362 --> 01:18:11.003
the only device that you have, then sure,

01:18:11.024 --> 01:18:11.545
go for it.

01:18:11.625 --> 01:18:16.307
But I would say most likely go for

01:18:16.328 --> 01:18:16.948
something else.

01:18:18.828 --> 01:18:20.189
Probably not going to be as secure as

01:18:20.229 --> 01:18:20.970
Graphene OS.

01:18:22.712 --> 01:18:24.573
Dag O'Hall said cubes?

01:18:25.212 --> 01:18:26.453
Smiley face?

01:18:29.416 --> 01:18:30.037
Which, you know,

01:18:30.777 --> 01:18:31.997
I think that's definitely a different...

01:18:33.939 --> 01:18:35.100
different sort of thing.

01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:36.740
Um, you know,

01:18:36.761 --> 01:18:37.601
you're not going to get access.

01:18:37.662 --> 01:18:37.801
It's,

01:18:37.902 --> 01:18:39.483
it's a much more virtualized

01:18:39.863 --> 01:18:42.984
virtualization heavy system, um,

01:18:43.045 --> 01:18:46.127
with much stronger containerization and

01:18:46.146 --> 01:18:47.028
like separation.

01:18:47.307 --> 01:18:48.689
So, um,

01:18:48.708 --> 01:18:50.831
that obviously comes with some drawbacks.

01:18:51.131 --> 01:18:52.091
Um,

01:18:52.152 --> 01:18:53.493
I do feel like the average person is

01:18:53.552 --> 01:18:54.472
not going to want to put up with

01:18:54.493 --> 01:18:54.814
that.

01:18:55.054 --> 01:18:58.435
It's also very complicated, um, to use.

01:18:58.676 --> 01:19:00.457
I think it's not super intuitive.

01:19:01.177 --> 01:19:02.538
So, um,

01:19:04.368 --> 01:19:05.791
Yeah, it's kind of my thoughts on that.

01:19:07.351 --> 01:19:07.592
Yeah.

01:19:07.613 --> 01:19:09.314
I'm glad you mentioned the security thing.

01:19:09.335 --> 01:19:10.114
Cause that was my thought.

01:19:10.176 --> 01:19:11.077
I know I've said in the past,

01:19:11.136 --> 01:19:12.318
this came from one of.

01:19:13.115 --> 01:19:14.516
firewalls don't stop dragons guests.

01:19:14.577 --> 01:19:15.457
I can't remember who it was.

01:19:15.476 --> 01:19:16.557
And it was several years ago at this

01:19:16.618 --> 01:19:16.778
point.

01:19:16.797 --> 01:19:17.717
So I'm not even going to go look,

01:19:17.759 --> 01:19:19.800
but he was talking about mobile phones.

01:19:19.899 --> 01:19:21.180
And he said that from a security

01:19:21.220 --> 01:19:21.780
perspective,

01:19:22.201 --> 01:19:24.042
we kind of learned from the mistakes that

01:19:24.082 --> 01:19:26.042
we made on desktop.

01:19:26.523 --> 01:19:29.043
So there is much better like sandboxing

01:19:29.264 --> 01:19:30.484
and you know,

01:19:30.564 --> 01:19:33.286
like I guess you would technically call it

01:19:33.305 --> 01:19:35.266
an atomic upgrading system.

01:19:35.367 --> 01:19:35.707
Cause like,

01:19:36.087 --> 01:19:37.307
when's the last time you saw a phone

01:19:37.328 --> 01:19:39.168
like fail to upgrade and update and break

01:19:39.208 --> 01:19:39.569
itself.

01:19:39.609 --> 01:19:40.949
Like it's, it's really, really rare.

01:19:41.470 --> 01:19:41.850
So yeah,

01:19:42.711 --> 01:19:44.671
it's very um they're kind of solving

01:19:44.712 --> 01:19:45.912
different problems but yeah my first

01:19:45.931 --> 01:19:47.431
thought is just performance like i don't

01:19:47.452 --> 01:19:49.632
know if i would trust even like a

01:19:50.073 --> 01:19:52.094
pro version of a pixel like i don't

01:19:52.113 --> 01:19:53.314
know if i would trust it to handle

01:19:53.354 --> 01:19:55.474
games very well i wouldn't trust it to

01:19:55.493 --> 01:19:57.574
handle video editing very well although i

01:19:57.614 --> 01:20:00.256
hear the macbook neo does okay for some

01:20:00.296 --> 01:20:01.376
basic video editing so

01:20:02.355 --> 01:20:03.056
Um, yeah,

01:20:03.117 --> 01:20:04.097
at this time I think it's just kind

01:20:04.118 --> 01:20:05.078
of like the right tool for the right

01:20:05.118 --> 01:20:05.338
job.

01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:06.720
Like if you just need something to browse

01:20:06.739 --> 01:20:08.020
the internet, watch YouTube videos,

01:20:08.060 --> 01:20:09.302
check your email, then yeah, sure.

01:20:09.363 --> 01:20:10.444
It'll probably work just fine.

01:20:10.524 --> 01:20:13.546
But, um, for like serious desktop tasks,

01:20:14.287 --> 01:20:15.627
desk desktop tasks.

01:20:15.648 --> 01:20:16.469
I don't know if I said that right.

01:20:17.130 --> 01:20:17.729
Um, yeah,

01:20:17.770 --> 01:20:20.032
I don't know if I wouldn't for me,

01:20:20.091 --> 01:20:21.012
I don't think it would use it.

01:20:21.314 --> 01:20:21.434
Um,

01:20:22.813 --> 01:20:23.493
I want to address this.

01:20:23.894 --> 01:20:24.134
He said,

01:20:24.194 --> 01:20:25.774
having a proper desktop has problems like

01:20:25.835 --> 01:20:27.777
Intel ME and AMD PSP.

01:20:27.877 --> 01:20:30.618
Okay, hot take, personal hot take here.

01:20:30.679 --> 01:20:32.039
This is not an official privacy guide

01:20:32.060 --> 01:20:32.380
stance.

01:20:33.962 --> 01:20:35.101
I wrote a blog post a long time

01:20:35.122 --> 01:20:35.342
ago.

01:20:36.382 --> 01:20:39.405
I cannot find a single piece of evidence

01:20:39.485 --> 01:20:41.887
that Intel ME is actually problematic.

01:20:43.288 --> 01:20:45.289
It is absolutely problematic just from a

01:20:45.350 --> 01:20:46.810
principal standpoint of like,

01:20:47.311 --> 01:20:49.012
why is this thing running at ring zero

01:20:49.193 --> 01:20:49.292
and...

01:20:50.434 --> 01:20:51.694
why does it have such elevated

01:20:51.734 --> 01:20:52.215
permissions?

01:20:52.675 --> 01:20:53.095
But, like,

01:20:53.895 --> 01:20:55.576
there has never been a documented case of

01:20:55.716 --> 01:20:56.657
anybody being hacked.

01:20:57.917 --> 01:20:58.677
There's...

01:20:58.717 --> 01:20:59.478
Let me see if I can find it

01:20:59.518 --> 01:20:59.858
real quick.

01:20:59.898 --> 01:21:03.939
But, like, I literally went looking.

01:21:04.380 --> 01:21:04.900
I spent, like,

01:21:04.980 --> 01:21:06.480
a couple days researching this,

01:21:07.301 --> 01:21:08.822
and I could not find... Yeah,

01:21:08.862 --> 01:21:10.222
so I called it the not-so-scary truth

01:21:10.243 --> 01:21:13.203
behind Intel ME, and if it'll load...

01:21:14.864 --> 01:21:15.845
You know, they say that it's, like,

01:21:15.864 --> 01:21:18.907
this backdoor built-in and whatnot, but...

01:21:20.094 --> 01:21:22.077
It's just, nobody has ever called it.

01:21:22.737 --> 01:21:23.698
It's coming back to me now a little

01:21:23.719 --> 01:21:23.779
bit.

01:21:23.798 --> 01:21:25.961
It's still loading, but like, oh,

01:21:26.001 --> 01:21:26.841
it's not going to load because that's

01:21:26.862 --> 01:21:27.622
blog, isn't it?

01:21:27.823 --> 01:21:28.484
Okay, hold on.

01:21:30.185 --> 01:21:30.587
God dang it.

01:21:33.842 --> 01:21:34.644
Even in Wikipedia,

01:21:34.703 --> 01:21:36.324
if you go to Wikipedia and it says

01:21:36.364 --> 01:21:36.784
like, oh,

01:21:36.824 --> 01:21:37.945
this person accused it of being a

01:21:37.985 --> 01:21:38.445
backdoor,

01:21:38.787 --> 01:21:39.926
and if you click the link and read

01:21:39.966 --> 01:21:40.068
it,

01:21:40.127 --> 01:21:41.769
the word backdoor does not appear anywhere

01:21:41.788 --> 01:21:42.809
in the article that they cite.

01:21:43.329 --> 01:21:44.511
So it's – to me,

01:21:44.591 --> 01:21:46.792
it's very much a case of like this

01:21:46.851 --> 01:21:50.354
hypothetical like it could be bad.

01:21:52.229 --> 01:21:54.171
But there are no documented cases.

01:21:54.351 --> 01:21:55.412
It's never been, it's basically,

01:21:55.432 --> 01:21:56.253
I think it's one of those things that's

01:21:56.314 --> 01:21:57.114
overblown a little bit.

01:21:57.194 --> 01:21:58.315
It's like, sure,

01:21:58.395 --> 01:21:59.697
try to avoid it if you can.

01:21:59.978 --> 01:22:00.497
It's definitely,

01:22:00.537 --> 01:22:01.399
it would be a lot better if it

01:22:01.458 --> 01:22:01.958
wasn't there.

01:22:01.998 --> 01:22:02.979
I'm not going to argue that.

01:22:03.541 --> 01:22:04.662
But I think it's one of those cases

01:22:04.702 --> 01:22:07.425
where like people have really taken it

01:22:09.454 --> 01:22:11.577
It's become like a fear mongering thing

01:22:11.617 --> 01:22:12.317
where it's like, oh,

01:22:12.396 --> 01:22:13.457
it's the worst thing ever.

01:22:13.497 --> 01:22:14.478
And it's like, no, it's just,

01:22:14.719 --> 01:22:15.019
I don't know.

01:22:15.298 --> 01:22:16.340
I don't know if I'm explaining it well,

01:22:16.380 --> 01:22:18.320
but I just, I think too many people,

01:22:18.680 --> 01:22:20.082
because especially there's scripts that'll

01:22:20.101 --> 01:22:21.722
like remove Intel ME and half of them

01:22:21.743 --> 01:22:22.604
will break your computer.

01:22:23.644 --> 01:22:25.605
And so it's just, yeah, I don't know.

01:22:25.926 --> 01:22:26.405
I don't know.

01:22:27.086 --> 01:22:27.787
I don't know.

01:22:28.716 --> 01:22:29.838
The web address has actually changed,

01:22:29.859 --> 01:22:32.682
so I might post this in the Q&A

01:22:32.724 --> 01:22:34.365
thread just so people can find it.

01:22:34.405 --> 01:22:35.608
But yeah,

01:22:36.009 --> 01:22:37.752
I think it's been kind of overblown

01:22:37.931 --> 01:22:38.353
personally.

01:22:38.453 --> 01:22:39.274
But again, for the record,

01:22:39.314 --> 01:22:40.216
that is a personal opinion.

01:22:40.256 --> 01:22:42.198
That is not official stance from Privacy

01:22:42.238 --> 01:22:43.501
Guides, but yeah.

01:22:45.082 --> 01:22:48.104
I guess to kind of back that up

01:22:50.386 --> 01:22:51.766
with our recommendations here,

01:22:52.787 --> 01:22:55.970
we don't recommend using Linux Libre

01:22:56.010 --> 01:22:58.150
kernel and Libre distributions.

01:22:58.551 --> 01:23:02.554
And the main reason for that is they

01:23:02.594 --> 01:23:06.136
basically strip out microcode updates,

01:23:06.216 --> 01:23:08.398
which, you know,

01:23:08.417 --> 01:23:09.979
they're kind of important from a security

01:23:10.019 --> 01:23:10.599
perspective.

01:23:11.238 --> 01:23:14.640
And they also remove security mitigations

01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:17.261
and they also suppress kernel warnings

01:23:17.301 --> 01:23:19.082
about vulnerable microcode,

01:23:21.024 --> 01:23:22.444
which is just not good from a privacy

01:23:22.484 --> 01:23:23.085
perspective.

01:23:23.626 --> 01:23:28.868
And the Libre distributions and stuff are

01:23:28.929 --> 01:23:30.050
probably the ones you're going to want to

01:23:30.229 --> 01:23:34.912
use if you're worried about like Intel ME

01:23:35.412 --> 01:23:39.475
and AMD PSP.

01:23:39.496 --> 01:23:40.055
So, you know,

01:23:40.932 --> 01:23:43.074
that's kind of where we're standing on it.

01:23:43.654 --> 01:23:44.416
We don't really have any,

01:23:45.256 --> 01:23:46.657
as far as I'm aware, there's no,

01:23:47.557 --> 01:23:47.858
you know,

01:23:48.578 --> 01:23:51.140
recommendations for alternative

01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:51.661
bootloaders,

01:23:51.701 --> 01:23:54.462
such as like LibreBoot or CoreBoot.

01:23:56.543 --> 01:23:58.225
Those have other separate issues,

01:23:58.405 --> 01:24:01.807
but when it comes to operating systems and

01:24:01.908 --> 01:24:05.551
stuff, I think there's,

01:24:07.610 --> 01:24:10.472
like Nate said, I think there is some,

01:24:10.953 --> 01:24:12.654
a little bit of overblowing going on,

01:24:12.835 --> 01:24:15.917
but I think it's certainly something to

01:24:15.957 --> 01:24:16.597
think about.

01:24:17.078 --> 01:24:17.878
Um,

01:24:17.939 --> 01:24:19.439
I think it comes back to like people

01:24:19.479 --> 01:24:20.541
thread modeling, right?

01:24:21.042 --> 01:24:21.902
Um,

01:24:21.981 --> 01:24:24.904
if you're Edward Snowden and the American

01:24:24.984 --> 01:24:27.627
government is trying to track you down

01:24:27.707 --> 01:24:29.287
and, um,

01:24:29.307 --> 01:24:30.548
they're going to use every possible

01:24:30.628 --> 01:24:31.029
avenue,

01:24:31.069 --> 01:24:32.911
which would include that sort of software.

01:24:33.752 --> 01:24:33.912
Um,

01:24:36.547 --> 01:24:38.069
And Henry K says,

01:24:38.449 --> 01:24:40.430
using Arch with AppArmor and UFW for a

01:24:40.490 --> 01:24:42.693
security perspective is good enough.

01:24:43.734 --> 01:24:46.275
I think I would recommend looking at our

01:24:46.315 --> 01:24:47.657
Linux overview page,

01:24:47.697 --> 01:24:49.318
which you can find in the knowledge base

01:24:49.519 --> 01:24:50.939
and under operating systems.

01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:53.341
That's going to have a lot more

01:24:53.362 --> 01:24:54.162
information about

01:24:55.235 --> 01:24:56.296
things that you should be doing,

01:24:57.056 --> 01:24:58.899
especially with Arch because it is so

01:24:58.918 --> 01:24:59.618
customizable.

01:25:00.140 --> 01:25:02.180
You could make it really insecure or you

01:25:02.201 --> 01:25:04.323
could make it quite secure.

01:25:04.403 --> 01:25:08.065
So definitely check that out.

01:25:08.746 --> 01:25:10.587
Dag also said Secure Blue.

01:25:10.847 --> 01:25:12.488
We did do a video about that as

01:25:12.569 --> 01:25:13.810
well last year.

01:25:15.511 --> 01:25:16.731
That's another one we recommend.

01:25:17.313 --> 01:25:18.613
It's one of our most viewed videos.

01:25:20.117 --> 01:25:20.978
Possibly, yes.

01:25:22.037 --> 01:25:23.698
Linux stuff generally does really well.

01:25:24.680 --> 01:25:27.301
There's some extra tips in the Linux

01:25:27.421 --> 01:25:29.023
overview page specifically about

01:25:29.143 --> 01:25:31.404
Arch-based distributions.

01:25:31.543 --> 01:25:32.645
So definitely read that.

01:25:33.765 --> 01:25:37.627
I think Linux is going to be significantly

01:25:37.688 --> 01:25:39.569
better from a privacy perspective than

01:25:40.489 --> 01:25:41.270
Windows and Mac.

01:25:41.350 --> 01:25:44.113
So that's basically the main reason that

01:25:44.132 --> 01:25:44.972
we would suggest it.

01:25:46.654 --> 01:25:47.114
Definitely,

01:25:47.515 --> 01:25:48.935
if you watch the secure blue video,

01:25:48.975 --> 01:25:50.657
you'll get a better understanding about,

01:25:50.716 --> 01:25:50.957
like,

01:25:51.858 --> 01:25:54.479
the security issues with Linux itself.

01:25:57.121 --> 01:25:57.942
But, yeah.

01:25:58.221 --> 01:26:00.122
Kind of everything I had to cover on

01:26:00.163 --> 01:26:00.423
that.

01:26:03.626 --> 01:26:05.346
I might repost this blog post over on

01:26:05.367 --> 01:26:06.967
my ghost now that I'm kind of migrating

01:26:07.028 --> 01:26:09.829
stuff over there.

01:26:09.930 --> 01:26:10.530
Okay.

01:26:10.551 --> 01:26:12.351
Sounds good.

01:26:14.286 --> 01:26:15.265
It's not really a question,

01:26:15.286 --> 01:26:16.546
but when we were talking about the period

01:26:16.587 --> 01:26:17.627
tracker apps, Dag said,

01:26:17.686 --> 01:26:19.268
remember that gay priest that was outed by

01:26:19.307 --> 01:26:20.747
conservative groups buying his data from

01:26:20.768 --> 01:26:21.148
brokers?

01:26:21.207 --> 01:26:21.427
Yeah,

01:26:22.328 --> 01:26:23.349
I think just kind of goes back to

01:26:23.389 --> 01:26:26.829
showing how sensitive data can be.

01:26:27.170 --> 01:26:28.010
And yeah,

01:26:28.050 --> 01:26:30.251
I think they tracked his location or

01:26:30.270 --> 01:26:32.112
something that was being sold by Grindr

01:26:32.351 --> 01:26:33.532
and saw that he was going to gay

01:26:33.551 --> 01:26:33.912
bars.

01:26:33.992 --> 01:26:39.453
So yeah, sensitive data worth protecting.

01:26:42.488 --> 01:26:44.310
I think that's all I saw for questions.

01:26:44.329 --> 01:26:45.550
I don't know if anybody has any more

01:26:46.570 --> 01:26:47.430
last minute questions.

01:26:49.471 --> 01:26:50.953
Yeah, we did forget this week.

01:26:51.073 --> 01:26:54.894
We've been trying to ask for questions in

01:26:55.033 --> 01:27:00.095
our privacy guide supporter signal group

01:27:00.115 --> 01:27:00.896
chat.

01:27:00.936 --> 01:27:02.556
If you're a supporter, you can join that.

01:27:02.817 --> 01:27:05.899
And a couple of team members are in

01:27:05.918 --> 01:27:08.640
there just to answer questions and chat

01:27:08.659 --> 01:27:09.319
about stuff.

01:27:09.380 --> 01:27:11.301
But we kind of have been wanting to

01:27:12.155 --> 01:27:13.636
use that as a way to get questions

01:27:13.676 --> 01:27:16.137
from our supporters and give them priority

01:27:16.177 --> 01:27:16.698
and stuff.

01:27:18.539 --> 01:27:19.060
We're trying to,

01:27:19.340 --> 01:27:21.320
we'll make sure we get that onto that

01:27:21.381 --> 01:27:23.643
next week, but we did forget this week.

01:27:23.682 --> 01:27:23.922
So,

01:27:24.483 --> 01:27:25.863
but if there's anyone in there now that

01:27:25.884 --> 01:27:26.904
wants to leave a question,

01:27:27.204 --> 01:27:28.164
feel free to do so.

01:27:31.167 --> 01:27:33.087
When is Windows hardening article going to

01:27:33.108 --> 01:27:33.628
be released?

01:27:34.668 --> 01:27:37.270
There's already a knowledge base article

01:27:37.551 --> 01:27:40.493
about Windows, Windows overview page.

01:27:41.243 --> 01:27:43.725
which does have some information.

01:27:43.845 --> 01:27:47.646
It doesn't have a huge amount of stuff,

01:27:47.726 --> 01:27:50.128
but it does have some things already.

01:27:50.229 --> 01:27:52.090
It's got a couple of sections,

01:27:52.109 --> 01:27:53.890
which I believe are still coming soon,

01:27:53.911 --> 01:27:55.431
which is the initial installation,

01:27:55.572 --> 01:27:57.734
privacy settings, application sandboxing,

01:27:57.753 --> 01:27:58.755
and security hardening.

01:28:01.076 --> 01:28:02.237
But like we said,

01:28:02.636 --> 01:28:04.018
Privacy Guides is like a volunteer

01:28:04.057 --> 01:28:04.518
project.

01:28:05.158 --> 01:28:07.579
Apart from Nate and I,

01:28:08.140 --> 01:28:09.981
and I believe Jonah, there's not really...

01:28:10.728 --> 01:28:11.529
You know,

01:28:11.729 --> 01:28:13.975
we're doing work on video stuff and

01:28:14.095 --> 01:28:16.000
everything else is kind of volunteer run.

01:28:16.220 --> 01:28:19.427
So it's whoever has time, which, you know,

01:28:21.277 --> 01:28:23.478
it's already kind of a lot to juggle

01:28:24.137 --> 01:28:25.597
because we're doing so many things at the

01:28:25.618 --> 01:28:26.137
same time.

01:28:27.878 --> 01:28:29.319
It's basically that we can't really set a

01:28:29.378 --> 01:28:30.779
deadline on what that's going to be done.

01:28:30.840 --> 01:28:32.260
It's whoever wants to work on it,

01:28:32.319 --> 01:28:33.140
whoever has time.

01:28:33.701 --> 01:28:35.541
And, you know,

01:28:35.581 --> 01:28:36.881
sometimes that doesn't always happen,

01:28:36.942 --> 01:28:40.462
but we try our best to handle everything.

01:28:40.622 --> 01:28:42.863
And I think we've been pretty good about

01:28:42.903 --> 01:28:45.384
that because we previously didn't have

01:28:46.123 --> 01:28:47.324
operating overview,

01:28:47.404 --> 01:28:48.965
operating system overview plans.

01:28:49.489 --> 01:28:52.613
pages but we do now um i'm not

01:28:52.634 --> 01:28:55.117
sure who was the major catalyst behind a

01:28:55.157 --> 01:28:57.118
lot of these it looks like it was

01:28:57.199 --> 01:29:01.784
jonah um daniel gray redoomed um a couple

01:29:01.805 --> 01:29:03.087
of those um

01:29:04.068 --> 01:29:05.809
members were working on those websites,

01:29:06.429 --> 01:29:07.710
on those sections of the website.

01:29:07.989 --> 01:29:10.832
It looks like this one was mainly Jonah

01:29:10.912 --> 01:29:12.033
and Daniel.

01:29:12.073 --> 01:29:16.494
So, you know, you can submit, you know,

01:29:16.555 --> 01:29:17.235
stuff like this.

01:29:18.216 --> 01:29:19.976
You can join the discussion on our forum.

01:29:20.016 --> 01:29:21.778
You can help to build out the site

01:29:21.938 --> 01:29:22.899
and add resources.

01:29:25.220 --> 01:29:27.301
I think that's kind of it.

01:29:28.402 --> 01:29:29.783
There is recommendations for other

01:29:29.842 --> 01:29:31.564
operating systems as well that we don't

01:29:31.623 --> 01:29:32.144
recommend.

01:29:32.885 --> 01:29:33.064
So...

01:29:34.090 --> 01:29:34.829
Definitely check that out.

01:29:34.850 --> 01:29:36.570
There's macOS, there's iOS,

01:29:36.832 --> 01:29:37.872
and like we're talking about,

01:29:37.912 --> 01:29:38.832
there's Windows as well.

01:29:39.632 --> 01:29:42.255
So yeah, check it out.

01:29:43.255 --> 01:29:44.935
Maybe help try and build that out if

01:29:44.996 --> 01:29:46.436
you have time or if you want to

01:29:46.476 --> 01:29:54.161
contribute.

01:29:54.180 --> 01:29:54.421
Yeah,

01:29:54.502 --> 01:29:57.903
I know Jonah was working on a credit

01:29:57.922 --> 01:30:00.185
freeze guide recently.

01:30:00.345 --> 01:30:01.524
I'm not sure what the latest on that

01:30:01.586 --> 01:30:02.225
is, but there is...

01:30:02.954 --> 01:30:04.216
new content on the way.

01:30:05.599 --> 01:30:06.699
I think we're always trying to keep the

01:30:06.720 --> 01:30:09.623
website up to date and add new stuff.

01:30:09.684 --> 01:30:12.707
Privacy's an ever-evolving thing, right?

01:30:12.828 --> 01:30:15.591
So there's always going to be updates and

01:30:15.631 --> 01:30:16.193
changes.

01:30:17.368 --> 01:30:17.988
Good stuff.

01:30:18.029 --> 01:30:18.149
I mean,

01:30:18.189 --> 01:30:19.750
I actually just this week I was because

01:30:19.770 --> 01:30:21.791
we talked about that Windows global ID

01:30:21.810 --> 01:30:22.712
thing last week.

01:30:23.292 --> 01:30:27.173
And there was a I think you found

01:30:27.253 --> 01:30:27.373
it.

01:30:27.474 --> 01:30:28.514
If I remember correctly,

01:30:28.554 --> 01:30:30.395
there was an article that finally had like

01:30:30.414 --> 01:30:30.954
a lot more.

01:30:31.456 --> 01:30:32.355
I mean, it still wasn't much,

01:30:32.395 --> 01:30:34.237
but it was more information than any of

01:30:34.256 --> 01:30:35.698
the other articles up until that point

01:30:35.717 --> 01:30:37.679
that talked about like, yeah.

01:30:38.550 --> 01:30:40.070
like what it is and what it submits

01:30:40.110 --> 01:30:41.030
and how to disable it.

01:30:41.551 --> 01:30:42.652
And so when I went to go check

01:30:42.692 --> 01:30:43.233
my computer,

01:30:43.353 --> 01:30:45.213
I noticed that some of the settings have

01:30:45.253 --> 01:30:45.993
changed names,

01:30:46.033 --> 01:30:47.354
so even just little things like that.

01:30:51.856 --> 01:30:53.158
Real quick, Henrik said,

01:30:53.297 --> 01:30:54.038
I don't use Windows,

01:30:54.078 --> 01:30:55.738
but my grandpa wouldn't switch to Linux

01:30:55.779 --> 01:30:56.260
very easily.

01:30:56.560 --> 01:30:57.780
So this is not an official...

01:30:58.911 --> 01:30:59.650
recommendation,

01:30:59.990 --> 01:31:01.931
but I know Zorin OS was really popular

01:31:01.971 --> 01:31:03.752
when windows ten stopped getting support

01:31:04.311 --> 01:31:05.511
because when you install it,

01:31:05.572 --> 01:31:07.052
you can pick if you want it to

01:31:07.092 --> 01:31:08.172
look like Mac or windows.

01:31:08.733 --> 01:31:10.073
And so for some people that would be

01:31:10.092 --> 01:31:12.054
a transition towards Linux.

01:31:12.533 --> 01:31:12.734
Again,

01:31:12.753 --> 01:31:14.293
that's not one of our official

01:31:14.333 --> 01:31:15.635
recommendations because it's based on

01:31:15.654 --> 01:31:17.795
Ubuntu and there are more secure distros

01:31:17.914 --> 01:31:18.215
out there,

01:31:18.255 --> 01:31:19.395
like the ones we've been talking about,

01:31:19.475 --> 01:31:22.296
but it might be like a good intermediate

01:31:22.315 --> 01:31:25.697
step to get somebody over towards Linux

01:31:25.737 --> 01:31:26.136
possibly.

01:31:27.952 --> 01:31:29.154
I need to check out Zoran myself.

01:31:29.194 --> 01:31:33.640
It's been a while.

01:31:33.720 --> 01:31:35.363
It definitely does look interesting.

01:31:36.484 --> 01:31:38.487
Not seeing too many other things here,

01:31:39.068 --> 01:31:40.729
unless anyone else who's also watching

01:31:40.750 --> 01:31:41.150
right now

01:31:42.030 --> 01:31:42.230
has any,

01:31:42.631 --> 01:31:44.233
anything that you want us to talk about,

01:31:44.552 --> 01:31:46.914
um, any news stories that you've seen,

01:31:47.515 --> 01:31:50.137
any questions you have about the website

01:31:50.358 --> 01:31:52.579
or what we've been working on, definitely,

01:31:53.579 --> 01:31:55.641
um, drop that.

01:31:56.462 --> 01:32:00.145
Um, I guess there's also been, um,

01:32:00.185 --> 01:32:00.746
some interesting,

01:32:00.845 --> 01:32:02.627
more interesting threads on the forum,

01:32:02.648 --> 01:32:04.869
which I think we could maybe talk about

01:32:04.970 --> 01:32:06.310
one more, um,

01:32:06.331 --> 01:32:07.231
to kind of give people a

01:32:12.136 --> 01:32:14.958
I think we had two or three that

01:32:14.979 --> 01:32:15.680
we were thinking,

01:32:15.739 --> 01:32:18.922
but we ended up kind of choosing to

01:32:18.962 --> 01:32:22.225
go with that main one about Briar.

01:32:22.265 --> 01:32:24.509
But we could just do one more here

01:32:24.529 --> 01:32:25.390
if you feel like it, Nate.

01:32:25.409 --> 01:32:27.851
Yeah, I'm down.

01:32:27.912 --> 01:32:29.474
Did any of them jump out at you

01:32:29.514 --> 01:32:33.297
specifically?

01:32:33.377 --> 01:32:35.159
I think we could talk about maybe

01:32:38.527 --> 01:32:39.688
smart TV tracking.

01:32:39.728 --> 01:32:41.028
I mean, we talked about that a bit.

01:32:41.068 --> 01:32:43.109
There's one about windows steering users

01:32:43.149 --> 01:32:43.769
to edge.

01:32:43.788 --> 01:32:47.711
I don't know too much Microsoft bashing

01:32:47.730 --> 01:32:48.631
this week.

01:32:49.671 --> 01:32:50.872
Oh, there's no such thing.

01:32:52.393 --> 01:32:52.673
Yeah.

01:32:52.753 --> 01:32:53.734
I mean, so there was a,

01:32:53.814 --> 01:32:54.734
there was a report.

01:32:54.935 --> 01:32:55.795
Let me see if I can find that

01:32:55.875 --> 01:32:55.975
one.

01:32:56.935 --> 01:32:59.756
There was a report this week from Mozilla.

01:32:59.837 --> 01:33:00.216
So, you know,

01:33:00.256 --> 01:33:01.197
take it with a grain of salt,

01:33:01.237 --> 01:33:03.137
but it's also not exactly hard to believe

01:33:03.719 --> 01:33:04.198
that Mozilla,

01:33:05.350 --> 01:33:07.932
that Microsoft still, so they, I mean,

01:33:08.373 --> 01:33:09.956
this isn't really like quote unquote news

01:33:10.015 --> 01:33:12.998
per se, but Microsoft has been accused of,

01:33:14.020 --> 01:33:14.201
um,

01:33:15.376 --> 01:33:16.636
pulling a lot of dark patterns,

01:33:16.676 --> 01:33:17.917
which for those who don't know,

01:33:17.957 --> 01:33:19.377
dark patterns are what we call it when

01:33:19.417 --> 01:33:21.097
like it's one click to sign up for

01:33:21.137 --> 01:33:21.498
a service,

01:33:21.519 --> 01:33:23.059
but you have to email customer service to

01:33:23.319 --> 01:33:24.020
close your account.

01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:24.899
Um,

01:33:24.920 --> 01:33:26.220
they call that a dark pattern because

01:33:26.240 --> 01:33:28.981
they're trying to nudge you into doing

01:33:29.021 --> 01:33:30.261
something that benefits the company and

01:33:30.301 --> 01:33:30.782
not you.

01:33:31.603 --> 01:33:32.882
And, uh, so yeah,

01:33:33.103 --> 01:33:34.884
windows has been long been accused of

01:33:34.923 --> 01:33:36.824
using dark patterns to make, uh,

01:33:38.675 --> 01:33:41.436
make you use like their browser edge

01:33:41.596 --> 01:33:42.158
specifically.

01:33:42.938 --> 01:33:43.498
I'll be honest.

01:33:43.679 --> 01:33:44.739
I've never really noticed maybe it's

01:33:44.760 --> 01:33:45.860
because of all the changes I make to

01:33:45.881 --> 01:33:46.201
windows,

01:33:46.240 --> 01:33:47.942
but like I've heard people talk about

01:33:47.981 --> 01:33:48.403
like, um,

01:33:49.530 --> 01:33:49.730
Okay,

01:33:49.751 --> 01:33:51.032
so the only dark pattern that I have

01:33:51.152 --> 01:33:52.474
is no matter how many times I uninstall

01:33:52.533 --> 01:33:53.234
Edge, it comes back,

01:33:53.675 --> 01:33:54.855
which is why I just have it firewalled

01:33:54.895 --> 01:33:56.015
now so it can never connect.

01:33:56.476 --> 01:33:58.798
But, you know, people talk about, like,

01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:01.701
they set their default browser to, like,

01:34:01.740 --> 01:34:02.841
Brave or Firefox,

01:34:03.323 --> 01:34:04.564
and then they update Windows,

01:34:04.583 --> 01:34:05.864
and it goes back to being Edge or

01:34:05.904 --> 01:34:06.585
something like that.

01:34:06.765 --> 01:34:09.046
And I personally never experienced that,

01:34:09.268 --> 01:34:10.387
but they...

01:34:12.337 --> 01:34:13.177
According to Mozilla,

01:34:13.217 --> 01:34:14.899
Microsoft still does not allow users to

01:34:14.958 --> 01:34:17.279
download set as the default or keep using

01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:19.081
alternative browsers without harmful

01:34:19.180 --> 01:34:19.780
interference.

01:34:20.442 --> 01:34:21.721
This might take the form of an all

01:34:21.761 --> 01:34:23.222
you need is right here banner in Bing

01:34:23.243 --> 01:34:24.644
when attempting to download alternative

01:34:24.663 --> 01:34:25.144
browsers.

01:34:25.864 --> 01:34:27.225
I don't know who's using Bing even in

01:34:27.345 --> 01:34:27.546
Edge.

01:34:28.426 --> 01:34:29.845
The pre-pinning of Edge to the Windows

01:34:29.865 --> 01:34:31.527
taskbar and the misleading wording,

01:34:31.907 --> 01:34:33.226
which according to the report could trick

01:34:33.306 --> 01:34:34.847
users into making Edge their default.

01:34:35.268 --> 01:34:36.387
And then there's the AI.

01:34:36.747 --> 01:34:38.429
The authors found that Copilot ignores the

01:34:38.469 --> 01:34:40.350
default browser when opening links and

01:34:40.369 --> 01:34:42.470
that Copilot data shares toggles are

01:34:42.729 --> 01:34:44.770
pre-selected on in the US and India.

01:34:47.612 --> 01:34:48.572
I mean, why is that surprising?

01:34:48.591 --> 01:34:49.853
Again, who uses Copilot?

01:34:49.993 --> 01:34:50.573
It's terrible.

01:34:51.372 --> 01:34:53.934
It's like the worst AI, except maybe Grok,

01:34:53.974 --> 01:34:54.173
but...

01:34:55.212 --> 01:34:55.792
I don't know.

01:34:56.172 --> 01:34:57.594
Um, yeah, I mean, it's just,

01:34:57.694 --> 01:34:59.194
it's really like, you know,

01:34:59.335 --> 01:35:00.295
somebody asked earlier, it's like,

01:35:00.335 --> 01:35:01.614
why don't people just switch to Linux?

01:35:01.654 --> 01:35:01.916
And like,

01:35:01.956 --> 01:35:03.676
there are valid reasons to be stuck on

01:35:03.695 --> 01:35:04.055
windows,

01:35:04.115 --> 01:35:05.837
but I definitely think it's one of those

01:35:05.856 --> 01:35:06.037
things.

01:35:06.136 --> 01:35:07.637
Cause I think a lot of the time

01:35:07.997 --> 01:35:09.498
people just don't challenge their

01:35:09.519 --> 01:35:10.719
assumptions, you know?

01:35:10.918 --> 01:35:13.619
Um, like there's all kinds of, um,

01:35:14.860 --> 01:35:15.060
there's,

01:35:15.180 --> 01:35:17.100
there's all kinds of like brain teasers

01:35:17.162 --> 01:35:18.341
and, and mental, uh,

01:35:19.979 --> 01:35:21.001
I don't know what the word I'm looking

01:35:21.020 --> 01:35:21.140
for is,

01:35:21.161 --> 01:35:22.481
but like they're tricks basically that

01:35:22.521 --> 01:35:24.603
kind of like trick you into like A

01:35:24.662 --> 01:35:25.663
or B. And it's like, well,

01:35:25.684 --> 01:35:26.664
if you stop and think about it for

01:35:26.685 --> 01:35:28.365
a minute, there's also option C,

01:35:28.426 --> 01:35:29.747
it just wasn't explicitly stated.

01:35:30.621 --> 01:35:32.282
Um, and I,

01:35:32.301 --> 01:35:33.122
I think a lot of the time we

01:35:33.143 --> 01:35:35.564
do that to ourselves where it's like, oh,

01:35:35.625 --> 01:35:36.746
I have to be on windows.

01:35:37.326 --> 01:35:38.466
But if you stop and think about it

01:35:38.487 --> 01:35:39.287
for a little bit, it's like,

01:35:39.407 --> 01:35:41.628
actually I could do this in the browser.

01:35:41.948 --> 01:35:44.470
I could replace this with some other open

01:35:44.511 --> 01:35:45.131
source thing.

01:35:45.771 --> 01:35:46.131
And, you know,

01:35:46.152 --> 01:35:48.154
if I did this and this, like, well,

01:35:48.194 --> 01:35:50.354
at very least I could dual boot Linux

01:35:50.494 --> 01:35:51.235
and I could use Linux,

01:35:51.916 --> 01:35:53.618
the time and windows, of the time,

01:35:53.637 --> 01:35:55.899
you know, it's, um, so I,

01:35:55.918 --> 01:35:56.300
I would just say,

01:35:56.319 --> 01:35:57.761
I would use this as an opportunity to

01:35:57.961 --> 01:35:59.042
ask yourself that question.

01:35:59.221 --> 01:35:59.362
If.

01:36:00.682 --> 01:36:02.904
Are you really stuck on windows or is

01:36:02.963 --> 01:36:04.064
it one of those things where it's like,

01:36:04.164 --> 01:36:06.605
actually I could reduce my dependency a

01:36:06.645 --> 01:36:06.985
little bit.

01:36:07.025 --> 01:36:09.367
So I don't know.

01:36:09.787 --> 01:36:10.627
That's yeah.

01:36:13.011 --> 01:36:13.171
Yeah,

01:36:13.231 --> 01:36:15.774
it's interesting to see that this is so

01:36:15.835 --> 01:36:17.735
different across different regions.

01:36:18.056 --> 01:36:19.557
I think it kind of makes sense because,

01:36:19.738 --> 01:36:22.680
you know, the EU economic region is, like,

01:36:23.121 --> 01:36:23.822
much more...

01:36:24.221 --> 01:36:25.724
I think they're definitely much more

01:36:27.465 --> 01:36:29.546
focused on, like, bringing in, like,

01:36:29.587 --> 01:36:31.149
stopping these monopolies and...

01:36:33.447 --> 01:36:36.328
stuff like that, in some cases, I guess,

01:36:37.229 --> 01:36:38.269
which, you know,

01:36:38.488 --> 01:36:41.210
it's made things a little bit better.

01:36:41.890 --> 01:36:42.430
According, like,

01:36:42.551 --> 01:36:43.771
I'll just share this on screen.

01:36:45.452 --> 01:36:46.972
This was a,

01:36:47.872 --> 01:36:49.713
this is kind of what the report was,

01:36:50.274 --> 01:36:52.675
a graphic from the report.

01:36:53.296 --> 01:36:55.096
Basically, even in the EU,

01:36:55.117 --> 01:36:56.056
there's still lots of

01:36:57.594 --> 01:36:59.095
Lots of hoops that you have to go

01:36:59.135 --> 01:36:59.435
through.

01:36:59.715 --> 01:37:01.336
It looks like the US is the worst

01:37:01.416 --> 01:37:02.077
out of all of them.

01:37:02.877 --> 01:37:06.460
The UK is slightly better, like slightly.

01:37:08.400 --> 01:37:09.100
Yeah, UK,

01:37:09.481 --> 01:37:11.542
like USA and India are basically the same

01:37:12.162 --> 01:37:13.644
and the UK is slightly better.

01:37:13.844 --> 01:37:17.747
So still a lot of things that it's

01:37:17.787 --> 01:37:18.226
doing though.

01:37:18.247 --> 01:37:21.088
You can see here just like tricks that

01:37:21.109 --> 01:37:23.189
they're using to get people to use Edge.

01:37:24.751 --> 01:37:25.372
This is really...

01:37:26.411 --> 01:37:29.712
pretty sinister stuff to kind of get

01:37:29.731 --> 01:37:30.552
people to use this.

01:37:30.773 --> 01:37:33.054
And I think most people are not super

01:37:33.094 --> 01:37:34.354
aware of these tactics,

01:37:34.514 --> 01:37:35.814
which is what makes it kind of even

01:37:35.875 --> 01:37:37.095
more insidious, I think.

01:37:39.724 --> 01:37:42.065
And these are things that unless you've

01:37:42.086 --> 01:37:44.649
been trained to know exactly what is

01:37:44.689 --> 01:37:45.090
happening,

01:37:47.171 --> 01:37:49.073
I think we've all gone through the process

01:37:49.094 --> 01:37:50.375
of trying to cancel something.

01:37:52.796 --> 01:37:53.018
Well,

01:37:53.318 --> 01:37:55.300
I guess if you live in a country

01:37:55.340 --> 01:37:57.622
that doesn't have protections against

01:37:57.662 --> 01:37:57.882
that,

01:37:57.922 --> 01:37:59.703
then you've been through this process

01:37:59.765 --> 01:38:01.947
where you try and cancel something and the

01:38:01.987 --> 01:38:02.948
cancel button is

01:38:04.417 --> 01:38:05.277
really hard to see,

01:38:05.356 --> 01:38:06.658
or it's like really small.

01:38:06.738 --> 01:38:10.119
And then like the, the, the opt out,

01:38:10.140 --> 01:38:11.740
like the, the, the, Oh no,

01:38:11.801 --> 01:38:13.081
actually I want to keep my subscription

01:38:13.121 --> 01:38:15.021
button is really big and blue and

01:38:15.162 --> 01:38:15.662
clickable.

01:38:16.203 --> 01:38:17.002
Um, you know,

01:38:17.023 --> 01:38:19.043
it's all those sort of tricks that they're

01:38:19.144 --> 01:38:21.586
using to, to get people to use this.

01:38:21.985 --> 01:38:22.086
Um,

01:38:23.771 --> 01:38:26.393
And I hope something can happen with this.

01:38:26.972 --> 01:38:28.654
I don't think this should be limited to

01:38:28.694 --> 01:38:31.033
some specific economic region.

01:38:32.975 --> 01:38:34.034
It's like with the Apple stuff,

01:38:34.074 --> 01:38:35.916
being able to access those third-party app

01:38:35.935 --> 01:38:36.655
stores and stuff.

01:38:36.716 --> 01:38:38.516
I don't think that should be limited by

01:38:39.237 --> 01:38:40.596
if you live in the EU or not.

01:38:41.677 --> 01:38:43.478
It should be like a global thing, ideally.

01:38:44.158 --> 01:38:44.998
But I think,

01:38:45.838 --> 01:38:47.460
especially when it comes to these super

01:38:47.699 --> 01:38:49.039
gigantic corporations,

01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:51.600
they can kind of split things and develop

01:38:52.045 --> 01:38:54.206
different versions of operating systems

01:38:54.246 --> 01:38:56.886
because they just have so much money and

01:38:57.225 --> 01:38:59.587
so much time to develop alternatively like

01:38:59.627 --> 01:38:59.867
this.

01:39:00.686 --> 01:39:03.408
Um, yeah, I don't know.

01:39:03.828 --> 01:39:06.588
Um, it's frustrating.

01:39:06.729 --> 01:39:08.548
Windows is really bad.

01:39:09.109 --> 01:39:11.930
Um, yeah,

01:39:12.130 --> 01:39:13.671
I didn't really have too much more to

01:39:13.770 --> 01:39:14.331
add on this one.

01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:21.442
Um, the only thing I want to add,

01:39:21.502 --> 01:39:23.162
Henry care said you can edit some of

01:39:23.182 --> 01:39:24.663
the files and make your computer be like

01:39:24.684 --> 01:39:25.965
it was configured in the EU and then

01:39:26.005 --> 01:39:26.786
it won't reinstall.

01:39:27.787 --> 01:39:29.228
I hear you and I'm not yelling at

01:39:29.268 --> 01:39:31.429
you, but like it shouldn't be that way.

01:39:32.510 --> 01:39:32.990
And I mean,

01:39:33.030 --> 01:39:34.412
this is normally something I complain

01:39:34.431 --> 01:39:35.932
about other developers and Linux people

01:39:35.953 --> 01:39:38.935
about, but like, it's not, I mean, you,

01:39:39.074 --> 01:39:40.556
you've been saying yourself that like you

01:39:40.596 --> 01:39:42.057
have family members that are not tech

01:39:42.078 --> 01:39:43.719
savvy and like won't switch to Linux and

01:39:43.738 --> 01:39:43.958
stuff.

01:39:43.979 --> 01:39:44.179
It's like,

01:39:44.198 --> 01:39:45.340
you really expect them to go in and

01:39:45.439 --> 01:39:46.581
edit the configuration,

01:39:46.820 --> 01:39:48.101
the registry and stuff like that.

01:39:48.182 --> 01:39:48.382
Like,

01:39:49.326 --> 01:39:49.645
I don't know.

01:39:49.666 --> 01:39:50.627
I know you're probably not defending

01:39:50.667 --> 01:39:53.448
Microsoft, but it's just, yeah, to me,

01:39:53.769 --> 01:39:54.729
that's not a solution to me.

01:39:55.369 --> 01:39:55.871
I'm looking at,

01:39:55.970 --> 01:39:58.792
I reposted something from Macedon

01:39:58.813 --> 01:39:59.172
recently.

01:39:59.814 --> 01:40:00.533
It said, OMG,

01:40:00.554 --> 01:40:01.795
you don't like the textiles that are

01:40:01.814 --> 01:40:02.215
available?

01:40:02.435 --> 01:40:03.336
Just go shear a sheep,

01:40:03.376 --> 01:40:04.896
gather stinging nettles, skirt the fleece,

01:40:04.997 --> 01:40:06.557
ret the stalks to get at the vast

01:40:06.597 --> 01:40:08.260
fibers, make a spindle, spin the fiber,

01:40:08.300 --> 01:40:08.779
build a loom,

01:40:08.819 --> 01:40:10.301
disassemble a bike wheel to make knitting

01:40:10.320 --> 01:40:11.641
pins, weave your own cloth,

01:40:11.662 --> 01:40:12.882
knit your own socks, sew a tunic,

01:40:12.903 --> 01:40:14.104
go live in a bog without any human

01:40:14.144 --> 01:40:15.505
contact because all of this takes too much

01:40:15.545 --> 01:40:16.326
time for being social.

01:40:16.645 --> 01:40:18.186
By the way, this post is about technology.

01:40:18.386 --> 01:40:21.807
and yeah i think uh sometimes we have

01:40:23.509 --> 01:40:25.588
we uh we have that attitude so i

01:40:25.649 --> 01:40:28.390
don't know that's that's a whole nother

01:40:28.409 --> 01:40:29.949
rant that i could get on that is

01:40:29.970 --> 01:40:35.311
neither here nor there but good old dark

01:40:35.351 --> 01:40:38.853
patterns not as cool as they sound you

01:40:38.893 --> 01:40:40.474
know usually you put dark in something and

01:40:40.493 --> 01:40:41.734
it sounds really cool but

01:40:43.630 --> 01:40:45.072
Not cool when you're the one being

01:40:45.131 --> 01:40:47.434
manipulated, yeah.

01:40:47.734 --> 01:40:48.154
Yeah, right?

01:40:48.194 --> 01:40:49.194
I bet you it's great for all the

01:40:49.215 --> 01:40:50.555
C-suites at Microsoft that are making

01:40:50.576 --> 01:40:50.657
bank.

01:40:50.697 --> 01:40:53.219
Make more money in a week than I

01:40:53.238 --> 01:40:53.838
make in a year.

01:40:55.701 --> 01:40:58.844
Yeah, probably a day even.

01:40:59.503 --> 01:41:00.945
It is kind of interesting, though,

01:41:00.966 --> 01:41:04.009
that this is, like, you know,

01:41:06.050 --> 01:41:07.731
not being curbed in any way.

01:41:08.239 --> 01:41:10.740
like I feel like this is obviously like

01:41:10.940 --> 01:41:11.940
monopoly behavior.

01:41:14.021 --> 01:41:15.582
Don't know what's going on with that,

01:41:16.122 --> 01:41:18.182
but I guess, I don't know.

01:41:18.243 --> 01:41:19.604
I guess there's not really any,

01:41:21.685 --> 01:41:22.704
I guess this would be more of a

01:41:22.944 --> 01:41:24.305
US thing maybe.

01:41:25.506 --> 01:41:27.546
Maybe like it kind of depends.

01:41:27.587 --> 01:41:28.867
I feel like if there was enough pressure

01:41:28.886 --> 01:41:30.807
from outside of the US,

01:41:30.828 --> 01:41:32.368
there would be pressure for that to

01:41:32.387 --> 01:41:32.889
change.

01:41:33.029 --> 01:41:35.729
But I guess it is kind of something

01:41:35.748 --> 01:41:37.010
that the US has to,

01:41:37.711 --> 01:41:38.390
has to work out,

01:41:38.411 --> 01:41:41.813
which seems like you haven't been

01:41:42.434 --> 01:41:45.836
particularly focused on at the moment.

01:41:48.136 --> 01:41:48.317
Oh,

01:41:48.377 --> 01:41:49.877
don't even get me started about where our

01:41:49.917 --> 01:41:51.519
priorities are in this country right now.

01:41:57.362 --> 01:41:57.903
I digress.

01:41:58.563 --> 01:41:58.743
Um,

01:41:59.002 --> 01:42:00.423
were there any other forum threads you

01:42:00.444 --> 01:42:02.725
wanted to talk about or is that all

01:42:02.744 --> 01:42:03.525
we got for this week?

01:42:06.246 --> 01:42:06.506
Yeah, no,

01:42:06.546 --> 01:42:08.686
I think we can probably close things out

01:42:08.726 --> 01:42:09.447
unless, yeah,

01:42:09.487 --> 01:42:11.408
no one seems to have any other questions.

01:42:13.448 --> 01:42:14.207
Yeah, sounds good.

01:42:16.708 --> 01:42:17.088
All righty.

01:42:17.889 --> 01:42:19.829
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