Speaker 2 (00:00.024)
Welcome to By a Thread with Dr. Marci, where we stitch together wisdom, lived experiences, and the lessons that shape us to empower you to keep going and growing in every season. If you've ever wondered how a woman can hold power, pain, purpose, and peace all at the same time, this episode is for you. Today, we're pulling on the thread of fortitude. My guests today embody strengthened ways that are both visible and quiet.

She is a prosecutor, a mother, a spa owner, and a survivor. But more than that, she is a woman who has learned how to keep growing through every season. Welcome to the podcast, Shayla Webb Esquire.

Speaker 2 (01:13.422)
Okay, so Shayla, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?

Thank you.

excited and I'm not gonna lie a little stuffy. Okay. So just edit that out post production.

I think we could put a filter or like a compressor. I don't know. compress something. We can't pretend like we didn't just see each other at church. So Shayla is my church sister in Christ as well. And we are also, I don't know if you feel it, but we're also hearing aid buddies. We both hearing aids. We do. Which you don't quite see often at our age, but we both wear them. Yes, we do. Proudly. We will take them out and show you that we wear hearing aids because they empower us. Yes.

Compress.

Speaker 1 (01:47.192)
you proudly.

Speaker 1 (01:53.004)
of that.

All right. So Shayla, before we get into courtrooms and entrepreneurship, tell me who are you at this current season in your life?

I'm someone who, I feel like I'm being constantly humbled. Like constantly humbled, like I have a thought or an idea and the Lord is like, that's silly, try again. And it's so new because I'm typically someone who's pretty confident, pretty self-assured, but in this season I'm like, does that sentence even make sense? Is that good? And so it's uncomfortable.

for sure. Yeah, that's funny because I didn't expect you to say that you are a person that's being constantly humbled in this season because I do think a lot of people they come across and they want to say like, yeah, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. But you're like really reflective to say like, yeah, everything that I do may not be the right thing to do. And you listen to the Lord.

I have a lot of ideas. Like I could write 10 movies, open 98 businesses, and I'll be like, this was not, this wasn't good.

Speaker 2 (02:53.774)
Not the thing to do. So how do you balance that? Because you are a practicing lawyer, you are a business owner, how do you balance all the ideas that you get in your head and decide what to take forward and what not to take forward?

So I will say, I think the perfect answer is I pray about it and the Lord answers me immediately. But I think the blessing of a husband is I'll present an idea and my husband Marlon will be like, cut it out. That's not good. And he's kind of my barometer of like a first round, does this make sense on his face? If I get past him, I'm like, okay, Lord, let me really pray about this. And I'll go back to him because I've learned that

whatever the Lord is calling me to do, the head of my house has to walk with me in that for us to walk in obedience and walk in order. So Marlon is quick to be like, girl.

is the worst idea I've heard. okay, probably. And that you don't waste time following that idea. So it's helpful. Right. So tell me about life as a mom and a wife. How long have you and Marlon been together?

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (04:00.942)
We have been together for nine years, married for seven. I've known him for almost 15 years. Meet at my dad's church. was the pianist organist there and I was on the worship team and just over the duration of knowing him and then our careers are very complimentary. Okay. And so I graduated. I'm like, I need to meet people in this area. And he was like, Oh, I'll help you.

Wow, wow, pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (04:27.886)
How cool. Now we're in love. you and you have children and it's wonderful. Yes. All right. It's so cool to see you guys together and to see the kids in church and see him playing the piano at church. It's just nice to see it.

Yes, it is. It's nice to see him outside of his element of business. What he does for a career, he's an economic developer, so it's very creative by nature. You're thinking of ways to get these businesses here and helping grow communities, but watching him use that framework musically and just have that freedom musically, like even after all this time, I still watch him and I'm like, wow, it's impressive.

Yeah. Yeah, it's nice to be in awe of your husband. It's a really cool thing to see. yeah. Yeah. So let's kind of take a step back and let's talk about the spa that you own, because it's not a small deal that you own a spa in the middle of Carmel, Indiana, which is a beautiful city in our wonderful state of Indiana. And you are right in the center of all the action in Carmel. How did your spa come to be? How did you decide?

as a lawyer that that was the place that you wanted to go.

So I, we'll talk about this, but I had ended up getting sick. I knew I wasn't feeling well, but I had gone on a girls trip with my cousins and my aunts. We went to Miami and we were at La Fountain Bleu and they had this lavender steam room and it was the best thing I've ever experienced in my life. I come home and I'm like, Marlon, we have to find this here. And there was nothing been one of those ideas. like, oh, I'll just build it, no big deal.

Speaker 1 (06:04.878)
And we literally started looking for properties, started coming up with names and concepts and ideas. And it was such a God thing that it literally flowed. were looking at several buildings and I remember walking into one that was already leased and it was the perfect space, but I didn't really want it. I wanted something brand new, fresh, but this one was already leased. It was already a spa. And I heard the Lord say, I'm going to give you this place.

And I'm like, okay, well, I don't need to look anywhere else. This group did not want to leave. They were going to renew their lease. They were really fighting. They did not want to leave that space. And so the leasing group calls us and they're like, they're not leaving. We can show you some other options. And I'm like, okay. So they start pricing out what it's going to be in these other options. It was almost a million dollar build out. And I'm like, okay. Well, that's crazy. And literally I had to keep saying, no, Lord, you said.

Literally, I'm going to give you any he named the the old spot used to be and three days later we got a call that they were leaving and we could have this space and it dropped our budget by more than a lot. It was just at that point of facelift.

Wow. Versus Because it was already built out. Exactly. Yeah. How do you... Where do you get the faith from to just hold on? Because that situation is like, no, people are literally not moving out of the building. Where do you get the faith or where have you learned the faith to believe when something literally seems impossible? Because to be honest, I'd be like, it's probably time to move on because they literally are moving. Yeah. But three days later, they moved.

How do you hold onto faith?

Speaker 1 (07:46.766)
For me, I think I've just seen God do so much and so much for me in my disobedience. And in my, I came up with this idea, I didn't pray about it, I didn't talk to God about it, and yet he breathed on it and blessed it. And I'm like, Lord, if you've done that for me in disobedience, when you say go, all I can do is trust that you're going to be there every step of the way. And so when I know that I'm walking in what God has said to do, it is pretty difficult to get me off that track.

That is a word.

Speaker 2 (08:15.736)
Yeah, yeah, when you've heard from him, you're like, I heard from you. Yes, you are. You expect him to show up because he said it.

Even on hard days, like, Lord, did you really tell me to do this? And I'm like, God, I heard you say, I'm going to give you this place. And you did just that. Wow. And so it's anchoring in what he's done before to tell me his character and his reputation of what he'll do in the future.

Yeah, I just want to highlight that because I don't think I've ever heard it articulated in that way if God would bless you the way he has in your disobedience What would he do in your obedience? because one of the things I struggle with and I imagine other women out there other moms out there struggle with the Idea that you're not doing exactly what God wants at the moment not because you're being disobedient Just outright, but you don't know if you've heard from God and so you're kind of just doing

step by step what you think is the appropriate thing to do at the time. But what you're giving me freedom is to know that, you know, even if I've made the wrong decision because I misheard or I, you know, I didn't get it quite right, God is still there and able and will bless us towards the thing that he has for us. So that is, that is a word.

I mean, it's literally all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. And I think we silo out all things. But all is all. All is when I fall, when my business partners fall, when my children fall, when people who don't like me fall. Like, all of these things have to come together. And so there's such peace in knowing that God already knew who I was going to be, what I was going to do, the mistakes I would make when He called me, when He spared me, when He

Speaker 1 (09:58.488)
breathe life into my body. already knew. And so for no reason would he deny the purpose for which he created me because I just keep falling or I just keep like, Lord, I'm trying to hear you, but I'm not sure he's not going to be like, well, you're not good enough for what I you to do. There's such freedom when we realize God is not us.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:18.486)
He's not man. That's what man would do. You are not doing things correctly or you're not hearing perfectly. Let me pluck you out of this and put someone else there. Now, you know, in the Bible, he has taken people out of different places in the Old Testament, but our God is a forgiving God. And I think it's important for us to remember that and not think that he acts like people. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So that's really awesome.

Yes.

Speaker 2 (10:43.822)
I imagine that your faith was a huge part of your diagnosis with brain cancer and everything you went through in that period. Do you mind taking us back to around the time of your diagnosis, how you came to diagnosis, and eventually sort of what kinds of treatments and things you experienced during that time?

Absolutely. I always tell people I did not have cancer at a tumor. And I only correct it because I used to not because I'm like, I don't want people to diminish my story. Like I want them to take it seriously. But I'm like, girl, no, a brain tumor is hard too. A brain tumor is hard too. But what I learned in that is God did spare me because it could have been cancer. And I'm like, Lord, me getting to say it was not.

is to your glory and it's for your glory. And so I always tell people like it was a tumor and thank God it was not cancerous, but at the same time, Lord, it was a tumor, right? But no, so I was working at a law firm at the time. I was billing a crazy amount of hours. I was so stressed. would leave work or leave church, go home, get everything I needed, go to the office, eat dinner at the office, then come home and do it all again. And

I knew my body, I just felt like I was breaking down. Like I was tired, I wasn't feeling well, I wasn't balancing my body well. Like I was starting to feel like I had vertigo really bad. And so for years, Marlon and I chased a diagnosis. I'm like, something is wrong. I don't know what it is. I went to so many doctors. I literally found out that I was dyslexic because my PCP was like, well, why don't you go have this level of testing done?

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:30.274)
to just see if it's like stress on your brain that's causing all these things. And I remember doing that and the doctor was like, you are literally so dyslexic. You should have been on an IEP your whole life. And she's like, you went to law school and. Yeah, I'm like.

You're a whole lawyer. Not to say that you can't be a lawyer and be dyslexic. There are many functioning successful people with dyslexia, but untreated. You are a whole lawyer.

Girl.

I said, okay, that's God's glory. Like, and that was another thing that built my faith. I'm like, what? didn't even know. Yeah. That I was really out here struggling.

and you just went through and did your thing.

Speaker 1 (13:03.61)
I just did it. Yeah, and it's like God you kept me I passed the bar on the first try and all these different things and I'm like God like that was you like I can't even take credit I don't even read well

And I'm over here taking tests, taking the hardest tests known to Van.

That was you. so going through all this, I finally realized I have a brain tumor. This was in 2020. I was getting scans every six months. My third scan, they did not run it the right way. They didn't use contrast. And so my doctor's like, it's gone. The tumor is gone. And you know, we believe in a miracle. So I'm like tumor free, God did it, you know, hype. And

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:29.313)
Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:42.851)
Yeah

I go and I'm like, I still don't feel good. Like something is. And so probably two years goes by and I'm like Marlon, like I can barely walk. Like I was on a cane at that point, like, cause I could not keep my body straight and level. I couldn't drive if it was raining. If you know how we get with rain now. It was terrifying. At this point now I'm depressed and I have this high level of anxiety that I've never had before.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:56.565)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:06.264)
That's for buildup.

Speaker 1 (14:15.382)
I go back to my ear, nose and throat and I've had ear, nose and throat my entire life. had my first surgery at one. Most people grow out of it, but I didn't. And he's like, we should run your MRI again. I'm like, okay. They run the MRI, the tumor is still there, but it's grown. I'm gonna find out it's sitting on my balance nerve. And so that was causing those years long...

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:38.846)
symptoms that everyone's like, it's vertigo, it's stress, it's this, it's that. And it's like, no, it's something you found and then lost because you didn't do the test. Yeah. so it was just a long line of trying to navigate that.

the correct test.

Speaker 2 (14:55.734)
Yeah. Did you feel heard during this time by your doctors?

I'll say yes because they definitely took took me seriously when I was saying I didn't feel well But I've always been one to really advocate for myself. Yeah. Yeah, I have insurance You don't listen to me

I pay monthly.

Yes, I've my deductible. We're gonna have a conversation today. Yeah, so I've always been one to really advocate for myself. and so I felt respected. love the hospital network that we're in. but I definitely felt like no one was taking the time to say, wait a minute, she had this previous diagnosis. Let's go back and see if maybe this is the problem.

Yeah. How do you let's stick with the advocacy piece because I do feel like it can be hard for for anyone who interfaces with medical care and they come back with the same symptoms that sometimes doctors are not really giving an explanation for. How did you advocate for yourself in terms of, hey, I'm just not OK. And you've given me an excuse for this continued feeling, but it's not OK. How did you what?

Speaker 2 (16:10.412)
tools that you use to really get your doctors to listen to you.

Yeah, I will say the biggest tool was not and I know that you're a doctor and you're not like this at all. But some doctors will hear what you say and then dial back in what they repeat. I'm like, say what I said. I am saying that I'm having vertigo, that I'm on a cane, that I can't walk on gravel, that I can't

And they'll say, well, I'm hearing you say you're experiencing a little dizziness. No, that's not what I said. And I don't want that in my chart. What I want in my chart is what I just told you I'm experiencing. And even as a lawyer, it's very easy for me to hear someone's list of issues and then be like, oh, OK, like, so you're having a little problem. And they're like, no, what are you talking about? Like, this just happened to me. And so I would say my number one tool was making sure that what I said was what they had to digest.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:03.338)
Yeah, I like how you put it because I do think as a doctor, we do want to know how your symptoms interfere with your activities of daily living. So are you unable to take care of your kids because of this, symptoms you have? Are you missing work, missing school that that puts it into context for us not to say that we need that in order to believe you. But I think that's a good thing that you bring out as a way to communicate with the doctor like this symptom.

is causing me to miss this part of life. Because if you're not experiencing life, what are we here for? We need to figure out how to help you experience life.

Absolutely.

And I think too, we have to understand that there are a certain, there's a certain population of people who will never miss work, will never miss out on their kids, will never, they will push through pain and life-threatening illness to show up. And that doesn't mean they're any less impacted. And so, but I think that to your point, those barometers of, okay, how is this impacting your daily life? Because that tells me how much I need to

Yep.

Speaker 1 (18:09.47)
engage in solution finding. I think it's a very fair question because you guys see patients all day every day. So if someone is saying, yeah, but you know, I'm still able to, it's like, okay, well, we might need a medium level solution versus the person that's like, I can't get out of bed. I think that's a very fair barometer.

Eww, nah.

Speaker 2 (18:28.494)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it's and you shouldn't have to necessarily do this. You shouldn't have to prove that it's terrible for you. But the reality is that we are dealing with human beings as as doctors and they fall short, they have their biases that they take simply because their day is busy. They're trying to use patterns of recognition to see if something is a big deal to them or not a big deal. And so

Just figuring how to communicate with doctors in a way that gets your point across, I think, could be helpful. Although I do acknowledge that we shouldn't have to. We shouldn't be in a place where we have to really convince a doctor that this is serious. We have to fall down on the ground to convince them that this is serious. Sorry, that was a joke.

Right.

Yeah, well, I hope no one's falling on the ground, but you know what mean? get up. up. yourself up. OK.

Speaker 1 (19:22.867)
Now I'm not. Now you're drug-seeking.

Speaker 1 (19:29.334)
because I am a lawyer and I'm always like suspicious. I'm like girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, people have that ability to kind of tell like this, that's a bit much. It's not that's not real. But, know, some people out there don't quite have that ability to make the distinction. And they either overly side with everyone is just dramatic or they believe everything. So. You. I mean, I feel like there aren't many MDJDs out there for a reason. They exist, but like you don't really see doctor lawyers out there all the time. So.

doctor.

Speaker 2 (20:05.806)
Yeah, I think we just have different skills, which is great. Yes, we come to get you when we need you. Hopefully we don't need you. That's the thing. Okay. All right, so let's get into so you're diagnosed. Thankfully, after many, many years of what sounds like it's a delayed diagnosis, and the tumor grew because of because of that. What was the next step in treatment? What did they have you do after that?

Yes, that is a solid point.

Speaker 1 (20:32.642)
So I had to find a doctor and I guess I didn't have to, but I chose to really look around because I've had several ENTs, several surgeons, and there was one, there's very few otolaryngologists and neurotologists. So it's a very rare group of doctors, number one, and I was already going to one of them.

He inherited the practice from my ENT from childhood. And he had done a surgery for me before and he was just so demeaning. Like just very, like, it's not that bad. You don't da da da da da da da. And I'm like.

No, okay. And so I gone to see him. And he was telling me don't operate, like, don't do it. You'll get used to it. Your body is gonna be able to balance itself back out. And I'm like, if that were the case, it would have done that already. I'm at that point, I wasn't even 30. And I'm like, no, like, this is not the quality of life that I would like.

And then I immediately was like, not you. I went to see a radiologist and his, my dad's had cancer several times. So I've watched him go through all of these different things. And I just feel like I know it when I hear it. it's just, what do you mean? I mean, radiology is wonderful. So I don't mean to diminish the practice, but because of where the tumor was, there was just so much risk.

by my, it's on my balance service by my facial nerve, my auditory. It's like, and he's like, we're going to try to narrow it down as much as possible. And I'm like, there's a lot you could hit.

Speaker 2 (22:12.59)
Yeah, when you say narrow it down, were they going to do radiation treatment?

All right. And I'm like, it's so much that you could

Yeah, so the risk is that other structures get damaged by the radiation while you're trying to target a specific tumor.

Correct. Okay. And I'm like, this is not good, but I'm ultimately glad I didn't go that way because to get the tuber, they had to remove my balance nerve completely. And so radiation wouldn't have been able to finish that process. I would have still had to go under the knife, most likely. Yeah. But I found a surgeon

He was just super kind, super compassionate. He listened. He asked what my goals were after surgery, which was really to just be able to hear. I've always had diminished hearing, but to be able to save something. And he cared enough about that, which was important to me, that told me he's not just gonna go in and treat me like some other patient.

Speaker 2 (23:08.806)
Yeah, yeah. And so in finding that surgeon who listened to you, I think that's like number two of the self advocacy teaching that you're bringing to this podcast right now is you had an answer first and a person, a doctor in front of you first who just didn't feel right, didn't sit well with you. And so you use the resources that you had to go find the one that you were most comfortable with. It takes time.

yeah. It takes effort, I imagine, because you don't just kind of go Googling a doctor and finding especially a rare doctor that's in your network, in your insurance, all those things. So I imagine it took a lot of ingenuity in order to do that. Yeah. Do you can you describe kind of the process of how you actually found like the radiologist or even the second surgeon who eventually gave you the right advice?

Do you

Speaker 1 (23:56.546)
Yeah, so I asked, I asked a lot of questions of my ENT. He was telling me people that he knew. And then from there, I would go to those people, set up an appointment, and I'm gonna talk to you. I wanna know your philosophy on these surgeries, because to get the tumor that I had, there was three different medical approaches to that surgery. What do you use most often? Like, why do you do it that way?

And the surgeon I found him, he had a great YouTube page. Like I don't want to watch you necessarily just chit chatting, but like he was talking about the surgery and like, here's what it's like. Like he was very human. And I think that was the best quality to me because this is scary. And I don't want someone walking in like they're God. And like the first time I see you is when you scrub in and they're finna put me under. No, like I want to know that you understand that

for whatever amount of time my surgery is, you are in partnership with God. Because my life is not in your hands, but you are facilitating some life-saving work. And I want to know that you have that understanding in the one the guy that I founded.

Yeah, it's amazing when you find a doctor who has a belief in God and really has the humility to realize that they are an instrument. I don't know how rare it is. I don't want to put out there that it's rare because I've come across of many believing surgeons and heard many stories about docs who believe and pray for their patients. So I don't want to say that it's rare, but it is a magical thing when you learn that your doctor is submitted to God and is...

doing surgery on his behalf. So what was the process like after your surgery? How did you recover? How did things go?

Speaker 1 (25:46.238)
Yeah, so it was a doozy. So I was supposed to initially go in. The surgery was seven hours. It was a long time. Well, didn't. I knew none of it. My family's in the waiting room. My church family's in waiting room. And I wake up, but I can't see. And I'm like, well, something's off. Like, I don't understand.

long time.

You don't have to.

Speaker 1 (26:14.572)
this is not how I went to sleep. don't understand. Like my eye is swollen shut. I can't see. I'm like, it feels like my world is constantly spinning. And I was only supposed to be there for four days. And so on day two, my surgeon comes in and he's like, something is wrong. Like we don't know what's wrong, but something is wrong and we need to go back and we need to fix it. But between the time of getting back in to fix it, I had a spinal fluid leak.

So I'm leaking out of my ear, out of my lumbar drain in my back. And they're like constantly changing my bedding because I'm literally leaking so much. I thought I was going to die. It is the worst headache you'll ever have in your life. It's bad. And there was so much swelling that they're now also draining spinal fluid. so I remember like I went in so sure of who God was. I'm like, we could sing praise and worship if you want to. Like I know my God.

I've heard it's super pain.

Speaker 1 (27:10.626)
But as the pain increased, I was like, Lord, where are we at? What are you doing? I have experienced pain in my life, but I've never experienced anything like that in my life. And now I'm like, I need pain medicine. I need pain medicine. And there's no pain medicine in the world that's gonna fix the pain of that spinal fluid leak. And I remember my dad literally saying, why are y'all just pumping her with medicine?

she's in pain, yes, but is there any other way to help her? And so I had advocates in the room, my mom, my dad, my husband, praying and advocating for me, but I am not being exaggerate when I tell you I thought I was gonna die. Like I was awake very little. I don't remember much. They put me on a medicine that caused me to have hallucinations. so I'm like laughing and talking and my husband and my mom are in the room too. And they're like,

Shayla, who are you talking to? And I'm like, you guys. And they're like, we haven't said anything to you. And I'm in full blown conversation laughter. And I just knew, was like, God, like you brought me all this way for this. And so my surgeon comes back and I couldn't walk. my...

What ended up being part of the issue was my balance nerve was not completely separate. So I had half a balance nerve trying to talk to a full one, which just threw everything off from like a symmetrical perspective, if that makes sense. So they have to go back in another four hours. And this is the kind of surgery where they've moved your brain, like they're lifting and they're moving. It's called a middle fossil craniotomy.

And so they have to go undo it to redo it to get that balanced nerve completely severed. and where I could hear after the first surgery, I could not hear after the second one. wow. So it was.

Speaker 2 (29:08.482)
That one thing that you really wanted to be the outcome, which was to maintain your hearing, seemed to be gone.

Ahem.

Speaker 1 (29:16.096)
Yes. I ended up with something called diplocusis. It's where you'll hear two different keys. And so my right ear typically hears in a higher pitch than my left ear. And so even as somebody who sings, I'm like, where are we? Where's the music? What's happening? And again, it's another reason why I'm so grateful for my husband because at our previous church, we were leading worship. And I would be fine and then something would happen.

And now I don't know where we are anymore. And he was singing so that I could hear the pitch and the key versus just like relying on the piano. Or he'll start like moving dramatically because having one balanced nerve, you almost feel like you're always underwater. So rhythm was never my friend. So let me not pretend the tumor did that. Rhythm, I remember we were at church a couple of weeks ago in our other church.

So now, it's worse.

Speaker 2 (30:09.516)
Can I say this? She still sings at church. She still sings in worship. Yes. And you still battle with these side effects. you still sing in worship. Okay, you can go back. You were in church a couple weeks ago.

Other sister, Dominique, we love her. She's standing next to me doing worship. if I close my eyes, I lose my balance because you know, all of these things go into balance that you never even consider. So when I close my eyes, I lose my balance. And if I sway my head, I'm gonna get off beat because it's like you just made the drum kind of go. And I see her side eye me, like girl, what? And she was like, you're so off beat.

Yeah.

I just kept

Speaker 2 (30:48.942)
I can't.

I can't even catch the beat and it was like I looked up and Marlon's looking at me like What are you doing? And it's like so I was at our old church I'll be leading worship and I'm just like moving and I'm like, I don't hear the beat anymore I don't know where we are. Yeah, and now he's like stomping his foot and like trying to help me get back into the rhythm Which again rhythm was not my friend prior, but now now it's yeah, it's like just let it go. It is Marlon

He's a lifesaver. Yeah, and be embarrassed with me. You know, we are one.

And keep you on beat

That's why God gave him to you. He knew you would need him through many things, including to keep you on beat as you worship him.

Speaker 1 (31:33.344)
And I refuse to not sing. I, I'm gonna do it because I'm like, Lord, you did not have to keep me. You did not have to spare my life. The middle fossa craniotomy comes with this warning of lifelong migraines. I don't have that.

Like I'm going to sing.

Speaker 2 (31:51.278)
That's not your story.

I'm not on a cane anymore. I know people who have had this surgery and they cannot walk on gravels still they have to use a walker I was gonna walk her in a cane for a while after But after my surgery when I was released from the hospital, I was back at our church within two weeks Wow, I mean no hair on the side of my head. God let my hair grow back He did. He did. sure did. Thank you But I'm like Lord there is nothing there's absolutely nothing that can happen to me in this world

where I will say you're not worthy of worship because I had the surgery done and there was a little mistake in there. I trusted an earthly doctor enough to go back under the knife and God, can't trust you who had to bring me through both times. Like it just, when you put it in the perspective of who we trust our lives with and how we'll withhold from God, but give so much to man who has failed us.

You sure did.

Speaker 1 (32:48.012)
Like my surgeon, he was so great. He would come walk with me in the mornings and I'm walking with him, complimenting him. like, you did this to me. This was kinda on you, friend. But I'm putting my weight into you. I'm letting you guide me and walk with me. But really I'm only struggling because of something that happened under your watch. But I'm like, God, I don't know if I can trust you, Lord. That perspective is just gone from my life.

can't do that anymore. I like how you put worship. It's not like you were just asked to be on the worship team. Like this is active worship. This is, I'm going to do it. It's not whether you want me on the worship team or not. I'm going to be worshiping. And I really like that. That's a beautiful heart to have an absolute beautiful heart. What do you think? And it's hard for you to know because it sounds like as part of this, you might've been in and out of just really being aware of what's happening.

Have you talked to your family about what they experienced or even sort of what they saw God do through this through this whole trial, how they've grown or what they've learned during this time? Have you talked to your family or kids about that?

Yeah, so our kids, I did not have them come up to the hospital until about three days in. I looked horrible, as you can imagine, and I didn't want them to be afraid. But when they came in, I almost had to put on that face of, guys, everything is fine. But what was funny was, at the height of them coming to visit, I was at my lowest. I was like, I'm not gonna make it. Like, this is horrible, but obviously you can't show them that.

Even like when I'm like, okay, do you have any prayer requests? Do you this or that when we're at home? I'm like, gosh, why don't I thank God that he brought you through that. So like they saw the faith. And I'll say my husband, I am just in awe of who he is because I cannot imagine, he had surgery a couple of weeks ago, maybe like a couple of months ago. I think it was in December. And it was his first surgery ever. And I'm in the waiting room like.

Speaker 1 (34:54.382)
what you gonna do? What you gonna do? It's like a 15 minute surgery. And so I cannot imagine sitting for a cumulative 10 hours, 11 hours with my wife having brain surgery and I can do nothing but wait and hope the doctor does not come and tell me that something has gone horribly wrong. And so just in talking with him through the experience, there's a promise God made us and our marriage that has not come to pass yet.

And he was like, that's all I could hold on to. He was like, I turned the corner when you first got out of surgery and I saw your face. He was like, and I almost cried, but I didn't because I was like, if I cry, everybody's gonna cry. Like I have to hold it together. He was like, and all I could remember was God, promised. You promised and that promise has not been fulfilled. You cannot take her life. And so, a lot of my parents are pastor and first lady of a church.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:49.89)
they're very much so like girl we knew God was gonna keep you and I'm like well I'm glad somebody knew because I had a couple of days like promise shmomish yeah

Well, that's the reality. You have faith and then you are confronted with something so hard. And some people can continue to have that faith, but the reality is a lot of us start to question and doubt and have fear. And that's just the reality because we are human. And there are some people out there who just kind of faith it through and they're super, super strong. But I also think that it's OK to have unbelief.

I think we have to remember to go to God in that unbelief. Even with all the fear we have, we just have to remember where to take it. But we don't have to be ashamed of the fact that we aren't believing at the moment.

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (36:41.358)
Absolutely. And I love that point because I think as believers, we're just like, I'm just gonna faith it through, I'm just gonna power through. I think about Gideon so often in scripture, in the book of Judges, Gideon is hiding from the Midianites and the Lord calls him and he calls him a mighty man of valor. And I'm like,

as you're hiding. As he's hiding. But that is the first, so after that is the first reference we get of God introducing himself as Jehovah Shalom. And Gideon is like, me, God? Like, you want me to be the judge that delivers the children of Israel? And he's like, yeah, I'm Jehovah Shalom. So Gideon is expressing fear, doubt, worry, anxiety. And God says, don't worry about that. I'm Jehovah Shalom.

So I'm your piece. And I think we do ourselves a disservice when we're not willing to say, I'm scared. Like, I am terrified. I don't know if I'm going to make it. Because then we rob him of an opportunity to say, yeah, I'm Jehovah Shalom. Like Hagar, Hagar is having, she has this baby by Abram and what am I going to do? Sarah is being mean to me and what's going to happen?

She's telling God, I'm just preparing for me and my son to die. And he's like, I'm Elroy. I'm the God that sees. And so when we are vulnerable with God and we say, Lord, I don't know how I'm going to do this. He introduces himself in a way that is so fresh and so new to us that we wouldn't otherwise experience. And it's like, God, did you take us through that so that we would know you this way? But I didn't meet you that way because I was pretending I was okay.

Yeah, speak on that. Speak on God. Because this could be a little depending on who you talk to, their thoughts on this. What does God allow? And in order to teach and grow us, you being the daughter of a pastor, what is your understanding of how God uses things to teach us? Yeah, or if he does or if he does not?

Speaker 1 (38:45.582)
I think God allows everything. He's sovereign. There is absolutely nothing that happens in this world that God is surprised by. He knew and He allowed. we have to pocket that and understand that it wasn't His plan. Yeah, when He created these, the heavens and the earth, we weren't supposed to sin.

It was.

Speaker 1 (39:09.066)
So although He's allowing it, it is not His ultimate and best plan for us, which is why He sent Jesus Christ so that we could be redeemed back to Him. And then now for eternity, we will live His ultimate and best plan, right? But God allows it. And I think there are things that happen because life happens. There are things that the enemy is allowed to do and ways he's allowed to get in. When you think about Job, Job wasn't tested and all that out of nowhere.

God said, have you considered my servant Job? And that was with Satan going to and fro, trying to figure out. And he said, well, I would, but you have a hedge of protection on him and all of this stuff. So God had to say, okay, I'll remove that, but you cannot take his life. And so when people are like, God, why would you allow da da da? I think that is, it's way of thinking and I won't insult that way of thinking, but

my life has become God, you allowed this. A, give me the grace to go through it. Yes. And please don't let it take my life. Yes. Even if it was me, I've learned some very, very, very hard lessons in life that were brought upon by me, myself and I. And I look back at it now and I'm like, Lord, I'm so grateful that you did not allow that to take my life. You let me go through the consequences. you didn't mean the three Hebrew boys, they're going into the fiery furnace. God allowed.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:35.116)
that fire to be turned up on them. The fire is so hot that it kills the guards outside who had to turn the temperature up. God allowed that. Because Eve knew, I'm going in with you. Yeah, so no matter how hot it is, even if, they said, even if he doesn't, he's yet able to keep us. And I think as believers, we have to maintain that perspective of even if this thing cost me my life, God is still good. And if my life was lived in him,

and through it.

Speaker 1 (41:05.08)
Where I'm going is even better. I just think we get so caught up in wanting to live and survive that we couldn't imagine a God who's like, I told you there would be trouble. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I've overcome the world.

Yes, yes, yeah. That's whole word. I feel like you need to be speaking more because you've answered a lot of questions that I have or a lot of things that I've sort of dealt with. And it's very nuanced kind of the things that you say sometimes, but you really hit on some points that I think a lot of people can struggle with.

the I caused the situation, is God going to help me out of it? Or even in my disobedience, God has blessed me, recognizing that there are very nuanced points that you hit on that I think a lot of people probably struggle with as well. So thank you for that. Now, being such a, I mean, a strong woman of faith, how does that intersect with your spa? And you're thinking around what I assume is kind of a holistic approach.

Absolutely, thank

Speaker 2 (42:08.13)
to wellness, how do those two things go together?

Yeah, so I am very protective of the spa. We have hired and I don't work there full time anymore, to God be the glory. But I'm very protective. think that we have, as Christians, we've eliminated ourselves from certain markets because we're afraid of the market. So for example, my spa is essential oils, steam rooms, salt rooms.

because

Speaker 1 (42:40.472)
There's nothing wrong with a salt room. There's nothing wrong with essential oil. There's nothing wrong with steam. Now you shouldn't be staging your house. And so I think we have just kind of compiled all these things together and said we can't do them. Instead of understanding there are health benefits to sitting. So for example, Marlon and I worked at the spa yesterday. And as we got to the end of night, just getting over this little cold and I'm feeling better, but I'm like, I'm still having some congestion. I went and did a peppermint steam.

And I came out of there and I was like wow, it helped. I'm alive.

Because peppermint, right, does its thing.

It does a thing or you can throw in some eucalyptus. I've had so many people come and say like, you're my stop on the way home because I was drinking way too much wine, trying to relax. When I can come do a 30 minute lavender steam, lavender and chamomile, lay back, kind of get my mind off of work, prepare to go home versus I'm opening up a bottle of wine every night. Yeah. Yeah. So I think for me, faith is.

everything at this spot because I believe God gave me the idea, and so I protect it as if it's His. And I do it that way because I need His blessing. So when you walk in obedience, you have the benefit of saying, God, you told me to do this. You are responsible for the consequences of it. And so that is why faith is so big to me there and why even in hiring the woman we hired, she's a Christian woman, loves God, she's so faithful.

Speaker 1 (44:12.522)
She's been such a blessing to our business. And it's to the point where I was like, God, I want to hire, but I'm afraid. All these people are asking if they can work here. I know they're not the right people. God, I had choices. And I was like, God, you have got to send me the right person. And I waited. I was, girl, was like, Lord, I don't know if I can be at this spot every day because it's.

you had choices.

Speaker 2 (44:30.286)
way to hit.

Speaker 1 (44:37.174)
It was hard. Like being there every day was difficult. Even though I loved it, I loved owning it. I loved being in this space. It was very difficult. And literally there's another woman that we work with. She makes some of our products that we sell. She's another black owned business. She's like, my sister's moving here from, excuse me, I'm still stuffy. My sister's moving here from Nebraska. She might like to work here. And I'm like, Girl, you know there's a Nebraska. But.

I meet this sister and I'm like, there's something about you. And as I'm talking to her, like everything I prayed about needing from an employee, I didn't compromise in one area.

But so you base. So basically the weight was because Miss Woman had not moved from Nebraska yet. She had already been chosen. Yeah. She just needed time to get to to Indiana from Nebraska. And because you waited, you got what you asked for.

because she has

Speaker 1 (45:33.068)
She did.

Speaker 1 (45:37.964)
Yep, we're getting resumes from people who have owned spas and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, no, they're not it. They're not it. They're not it. And it was just to the point where when she started working there, I trained her for a bit and then I got the call to go back to work. there was just this trust I had.

that she would call me if she needed anything. She would figure out how to troubleshoot some stuff. And I just want to highlight her because literally we went, we had a full day at the Spires today. were packed and she had prepared all the baskets for the rooms with little note cards of who it was for, what their service was. And I'm like, girl, who thinks to do that?

Yeah, when you have someone take over for you, if they can do better than you, that's amazing.

She's an organizational genius. like, again, my husband is very organized. he's wonderful. I can't even complain. He's awesome at it. And like, between the two of them, like, how have y'all learned to fold laundry like this? Like, did you go to a special school?

Because I didn't learn this. I don't have

Speaker 1 (46:49.23)
And like it is just we got there in the morning and my husband was like you got nothing to do and I'm like I don't

Because you are also working in the prosecutor's office right now, which does not sound like a small job. So not having nothing to do for your business in terms of the everyday upkeep, that's a good thing.

So.

Speaker 1 (47:10.11)
Yeah, and it's been a stress reliever. It's allowed me to get more creative with how we're marketing and all this kind of stuff because I'm not just in the day-to-day nitty-gritty of it and it's I can trust it because God literally sent the right person why? Because that's his I've been on a lot of stages. I've done a lot of TV I've given a lot of speeches about the spa. I've given a lot of podcasts or whatever interviews about how we got here and

All of it is to God be the glory. To God be the glory. God did it. God said it. God said da da da da. So he will not allow someone to come in there that will shame his reputation. I'm like a secondary. He's not gonna let me be

But that's his this is his

Yeah, so he had to prepare the person. I just had to not get ahead of him.

Yeah, that is such good advice. I always like to think when things aren't coming quickly that God and all his providence, something has to move and things take time to move. Just like this person literally wasn't in the state yet, you know, and because you waited, you allowed time for the right person to show up and likely the right time. yeah. So I love to think about just the providence of God and being able to. He's got a plan bigger than what we can even see.

Speaker 2 (48:27.808)
or imagine and just remembering that sometimes calms down my anxiety about what's happening. Absolutely. So you mentioned, and we've talked about this, and I think it's really important because the use of essential oils and natural healing and things, we talked about the fact that some people may

they may sort of give away what God has meant for us to use that may be natural and healing because they want to associate it with other things because it's been abused. Natural things always get abused in other, you know, spiritual realms and things like that. But to see you embrace the essential oil, to see you embrace the salt, the steam, the sauna rooms, all those things as a natural way of healing, I think it's really important to highlight because there's a spectrum.

you know, there's, well, there's no spectrum. There's right and there's wrong, right? There's right and wrong. But some people have abused certain things and taken it over to the wrong side. And therefore we kind of shy away from it. Yeah. Thinking that we can't use that when in reality, who created the peppermint or the eucalyptus that we can use to heal our bodies? Absolutely. What do you think about finding that balance between using those natural things for God's purposes?

Yeah, I think we cheat ourselves when we don't. And I think it goes back to your previous question of protecting the space. So we partner with businesses all the time, but there are certain businesses I won't partner with, certain people I won't partner with, because although we're kind of doing the same thing, you have a different spirit about how you're doing it. And because I have to keep the spirit of what we're doing pure and I have to keep it the spirit of the Lord.

Even if you come to me, you're like, oh, when I do my massages, I only use essential oils, da da da da, but I do a divine feminine massage. quit playing with me. Just that's just a markup. Where that massage would have been $75. You're charging $180 because it's divine feminine. I don't work with people like that. And it's not to be harsh, but.

Speaker 2 (50:19.906)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:35.198)
I am exclusive. Like, the Spirit of the Lord is the only God of that place. And just like in the Old Testament, when they put the Ark of the Covenant in the same room as Dagon, Dagon had to fall. And so any other spirit that comes into that place has to bow, has to bend, has to fall. And that we already have so much of that with our clientele, because everybody doesn't love the Lord. And I can't tell you that you can't come in here because you don't love the Lord. But that place is so bathed in prayer that

Okay, but for me to intentionally bring somebody in because they might be good for our numbers and they might be for business. was a choice I made and now I'm saying, okay, God, just share for 30 minutes. Just share this space with this other God, but still bless us though.

That's a different, that's a whole different story.

Completely different story. And so I keep it pure by being very intentional about how I go about what we do.

and you keep who is in control in control. So it's a space for God. And as you said, other things will bow to him. And in all honesty, there are people that come through the door who may not be believers, and this may be their opportunity to experience God or to just experience the right way to use what he's given us naturally to heal our bodies.

Speaker 1 (51:52.526)
Absolutely. And we get so many people who use like the new age language of, know, I'm looking for something that's going to ground me. And like, so you're looking for something that's going to settle you and kind of feel relaxing to you. Like I get what you're trying to say, but I have to also circumvent the language. Yeah. Because I wear, if I'm talking believer to believer, I might use that word, but I don't want to at any point even have

a semantic argument about what it is we are doing or trying not to do only because it is so sensitive. What we are in a space where people are opening themselves up, they're being vulnerable, they're coming where they're not feeling well, they're coming on their bad days, all these things are happening. And I have to be wise that any spirit could creep in there. And there's so much that could happen by happenstance.

that if I'm not intentional with what is within my control, how can I look at God and be like, but why didn't you bless it? And he's looking at me, why didn't you protect it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are some, there are some things that that are in our hands to simply do. Because if we allow certain things in, then there are consequences. Absolutely. We just want to really be mindful and protective of the things that God has given us as you have been. So as we sort of wrap up here, I want to get into some questions for our audience to directly glean from.

And the first one is, I imagine there are moms, women out there who are going through really difficult times. It could be health related. It could be financial. It could be a number of different things. What advice would you give to a woman who really is in the roughest spot in their life and they didn't imagine that they would be here and they don't see a way out of it? What advice would you give to them in navigating this moment?

Speaker 1 (53:54.351)
I think my first piece of advice would be to do a self-evaluation. Figure out how we got here. Because some things, like I said earlier, some things in life are life. Some things in life are the enemy. Some things in life are us. And even as you're submitting to God and praying and asking Him to keep you, if you never look in and say, you know what, the reason I keep...

overspending on my credit card is because I'm on social media and I have a covetous spirit and I see these women and I see these six tick-tock shops and then I want this stuff. Well, you're praying for God to give you a financial breakthrough and God is saying get off tick-tock. Problem solved. Just get away from the stimuli. And so I would say just do a self-examination and see what's you.

And then ask God for the strength and the grace and the wisdom to address what's you and then move to move to what's next What's you is the low-hanging fruit?

Yes, I like that. We talk here about threads. so a thread is simply something that you can hold on to that steady and unsteady situations because we're always going through something that's just a part of living and a part of life. And I think I know what your thread would be, but feel free to surprise me if you have a different thread. But what is that thing that you hold on to that is steady?

when everything else is steady, whether it's a philosophy, a person, a God, what is that thing that you hold onto?

Speaker 1 (55:37.954)
Yeah, I think I would have to say two things. First would obviously be the cross. And when I'm in a situation where I'm like, Lord, I feel so ashamed. I feel so embarrassed. Like, what have I done? I remember that the Bible tells me that the joy set before him was the cross. although he

obviously no one wants to go to the cross. It was the joy set before him to redeem me. And so why would I not go to my Redeemer who found it joyful to commit himself to my redemption? Why would I not go to him and say, Lord, I've messed up? So my first thread is always going to be the cross because it is, there's this thing and I love it, but I'm probably not going to nail it. But it's like, if you only have one thread left, make sure it's the hem of his garment. Like if you don't like pull my

I love that.

I'm not nailing the quote

thread yeah yeah I love it

Speaker 1 (56:35.694)
Google it and it'll come down. But I love that. And the second thing I would definitely say is my marriage. Pastor preached about marriage. It's so true. There are times when I am just absolutely not my best. And I'm like, Lord, I have no idea what I'm going to do. And the fact that I can say, Lord, in this moment, I'm going to do nothing. And I'm going to rely on my husband to navigate these waters.

Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (57:05.494)
The fact that I know he will navigate the waters is such a blessing. I could not imagine being in a situation where I'm throwing my hands at Lord, I don't know what to do. And he's like, well, I gave you a head. What's that doing? And I'm like, I don't know, Lord. You tell me. You tell me. Is he talking to you? He's not talking to me. I couldn't imagine that. And so the cross and the fact that my husband is also redeemed, it's the thrill.

I love it. What this is our final question. What are you looking forward to? What's next on the plate for Shayla Webb Esquire? And we confirm that Esquire is the right. That's it. That's the right title. Because she has passed the bar and she is she practices law. Yes. So she gets the Esquire at the end of her name.

Get it right. Period.

Speaker 2 (57:57.934)
In addition to having a Juris Doctorate degree as well, the Esquire is a step up. You get your JD, but the Esquire says you are able to give legal advice and act as an attorney or a lawyer. I had to do a little research because I didn't know. But what is next on your plate? That could be either as a mom, as a lawyer, as a person. Like tomorrow I'm going to do this thing because it matters to me. But what is next up for you? What are you looking forward to?

Man, I will say...

I will say for me, it's rest, which probably feels so silly. And not like I'm gonna quit my job or anything. I love my job, I love the spa, I love being a wife, I love being a mom. But there is something the Lord has really been working on me with. And I think it goes back to the humility. He's saying, I didn't ask you to feed the 5,000. I asked you to bring the two fish and the five loaves.

And so the reason I call that rest is because I am just going to bring my gift, Lord. And the Bible tells us he blessed it and he broke it. And so it is such a place of rest to say, you know what, Lord, you've given me so much. You've given me talent. You've given me treasures. You've given me time. You've given me grace. You've given me mercy. Hear all that. Here it is.

Lord, you bless it and you break it and wherever you send me, I'll go. But I'm not going to just be looking for places to go. Okay. Cause that's a bad habit for me. I will look for a place to go and be like, how did I get here? Same here. And he's like, I didn't, I didn't tell you to do any of that. So just resting in the fact that I did not ask you to feed the 5,000. I asked you to bring your two fish and your five loaves. I'll bless it and I'll break it. And then we'll go.

Speaker 2 (59:48.182)
I like it. It sounds like putting things before God is part of your rest. What else is part of your rest? What does rest physically look like for you and how might it look for other, like for other women?

Yeah, I think for me, rest looks like understanding expectations. I think we have an internal conversation with ourselves every day and we tell ourselves we have to be and do and look like and think like and go. And in reality, people just want you to show up you. And so.

walking away from this mentality that I have to impress everyone in order for me to be the legitimate person that I am, that is rest. That's rest. I could, I am a lawyer. My marriage certificate says that I'm a mom. I got two kids. I have a spa. I have all of these things. I don't have to walk in this mentality of I need to impress someone so they can validate me.

And when you stop doing that, it's like probably the most exhausting part of our day is trying to get people to say how well we did. When we let that go and we just move, we just go, we just do, because it is in Him that we live, we move and we have our being. So when we walk in the grace and the confidence that we are fearfully and wonderfully made, we can rest in everything else because we are approved by our...

The ultimate approver. Absolutely. Yeah, the only one that matters. The only one that matters. What you say makes me think of a quote from Brene Brown where she says, don't puff up, don't shrink, just stand your ground. Meaning, as you said, you don't have to show up and prove. And for us women in very high powered situations, we don't have to shrink from what God gave us. You stand and you show up and you just hold your ground as you are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14.986)
I'm going to

Speaker 2 (01:01:39.138)
You don't have to prove and you don't have to shrink. So on that note, I am so happy that we were able to speak with you. You've dropped so many nuggets of wisdom and information. And I just imagine that you have so much more to share with this world. And I can't wait to see how you do that. So thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.