Welcome to Episode four of the ID Corner podcast,
where we talk about everything teaching and
learning. Over the summer, I had the opportunity
to attend the International Forum on Active
Learning Classrooms held at the University of
Minnesota as a first time attender. It was an
enriching time, learning about current practice
and an opportunity to meet others passionate about
active learning. One of the contacts I made put me
in contact with my guest for today. Dr. Christian
Schindler was a teaching specialist at the
University of Minnesota School of Dentistry. So,
Kristen, can you please share for our listeners a
little bit about your role in the School of
Dentistry? Sure. So I started in the School of
Dentistry about three and a half years ago as a
postdoc at first, and I was researching
bacteriophage. And through that, I had the
opportunity to start teaching in the microbiology
and immunology courses, specifically doing the
component of the immunology then and from there,
it just sort of grew. And I'm at the point where
I'm directing the microbiology and immunology
course for the dental students, a similar course
for the dental hygiene students. And I also
directed biochemistry course for the dental
students. So I teach quite a bit. Awesome. Thank
you. Can you specifically describe the the course
for which the this activity that we're going to
talk about is for? Yeah. So this this activity is
a final project for the microbiology and
immunology course for the dental students. And so
the way I inherited the course was that it had
four fifty point multiple choice exams and that
was the grading system for it. So there's about
one in and students in the class. It's a really
big class for what I'm used to. And so getting
those assessments graded quickly with feedback was
a concern. I'm not the biggest fan of multiple
choice exams, particularly basing an entire score
off of that. So the first thing I did was to
integrate some podcast assignments into it for a
couple of years, where students listen to some
Radiolab podcasts and talked about how scientific
communication happened relating to topics. And
from there I decided that projects and different
assignments like that, where students could really
think about the content and apply it to different
situations that could be relevant to their
profession gave me the biggest understanding of
their understanding of the material is presenting.
So I moved the assessments for the course to one
fifty point exam and everything else is project
based assessment. Wow. Wow, that's awesome. So
you've mentioned the assignment a little bit. Can
you can you give us some detail about it? Yeah. So
I found this paper several years ago in the
Journal of Microbiology and Bilel Biology
Education and A.M. publication where a professor
had started having his students create murder
scenes from an infection with a microorganism. And
so students worked in groups to create these these
murder scenes, essentially these homicide scenes,
and design different clues to point to the
identity of the microorganism responsible. And
then they went through and sort of solved all of
these crime scenes. And I thought, wow, what a
great way for students to be exposed to a wider
variety of microorganisms. Get some practice
comparing and contrasting features of bacteria and
viruses and fungal pathogens as well as parasites,
and to really hone in on some differential
diagnosis skills that they need as practicing
clinicians, since my students are dentists. So I
took that paper and used it as sort of a
foundation to to design the final project or my
course. OK, so so this assignment, as you've
described it, really meets some of the the
important course objectives that you've got for
for your students. Yeah. And I think it's a useful
and sort of fun, low stress way to really get to
those higher levels of doing taxonomy during
assessment without. Creating some really intricate
problem for students to solve or some long essay
to write or something like that, and there can be
a group component and an individual component as
well. Awesome. Yeah. So I have kind of the next
question I had was why this type of assignment,
which I think you've kind of been answering. I
mean, any time, any time you can bring fun into it.
I think it's a it's a great thing. How how have
students received this assignment? Does the group
project and I know from my experience, group
projects are kind of like, I don't want to do a
group project. So. So what's been your experience?
Yeah. So I've only done it one year so far. Full
disclosure, but it was much more successful than I
anticipated, so that was really, really great. I
actually only had one student comment negatively
on the group aspect. So one person said group
projects are never a good idea. But that was the
only negative feedback I got, which I was shocked.
I expected a lot more pushback. One thing I did, I
let the students choose their own groups. So I
presented 11 different microorganisms that they
could choose from. And the class was divided into
two groups, worked on the same micro-organism and
they could sign up then based on the five of us
want to work together or hey, I'm really
interested in this microorganism, who else is
interested in it? So the groups formed in both of
those ways, sort of organically. We just used a
live Google doc to do that. That was kind of fun
watching students edit. Sure, sure. There are
groups and things in real time. Would you do it
the same way again? Just kind of let it happen
organically? You know, I think I would because it
seemed to work. I haven't asked students if they
preferred forming their group first and then
picking a microbe or just sort of signing up for a
microbe and seeing who else was interested in that.
But that would be some interesting sort of
feedback to get. And then another thing I did to
to really make sure that the groups were
functioning well together for the group portion
because the group grade was worth about half of
the project, was I incorporated self-evaluation
and peer evaluation into it. And I was really
careful with the peer evaluation chunk. And I said,
you know, you can earn up to five points and it's
going to be an average of the scores you get from
your other group members. And if your average
score from the peer evaluations is under two point
five, so essentially 50 percent, you don't get
peer evaluation points. So I made it sort of your
group members have to be satisfied, reasonably
satisfied with your contributions to earn those
points. And everyone did earn them. But there was
that range of evaluation points. So it just sort
of up the stakes on you need to be involved in
this component. Sure. And so that was five points
out of their total score. Yeah. And I think. I
can't actually remember off the top of my head, I
believe the group component was worth 50. Yes,
five points and then I think, yes, a total of 50
for the group. Yep. And then the the individual
component where they actually went through and
solved crime scenes was also worth fifty points.
So you could earn half of the points for the
entire project on your own, which is another way
to sort of alleviate those groupware concerns. Yes.
Yes. So this is in the context of the course. This
is a final project. What kinds of support or
scaffolding did you provide the students before
they get here, both in terms of the the activity,
the content itself, but then also the peer to peer
and group kind of dynamics, things like was it
just here you go? Or so I made a document that
sort of broke down. Here's a group component of
this, and you earn your points in these ways. So
the main component of earning points in the group
project or the clues that you provided in your
crime scene. So sort of building out the crime
scene for your classmates to solve the self and
peer evaluation. And then you also had to provide
the rest of the class with the information to
solve the crime scene. Right. So you made the
groups made a little ID card that had things like
symptomology of the organism, whether it's a
bacteria or virus, it's gram positive, gram
negative. Those types of informations,
epidemiology, any vector associated with it, the
sort of critical pieces of knowledge and then a
sort of a fun, creative bit, I had them create a
mug shot for their their perpetrator, if you will,
as well. So there was very clear point values
associated with all of those. And I tried to
provide a clear description about what you needed
to do to get to those point values and have an
independent part was a little easier because it's
it's solving the crime scene. Right. You identify
what the microorganism is that caused that crime
scene and then give me a treatment option that's
available in one way that that could have been
prevented. So to bring in the treatment and
prevention and I also showed them an example. So
when we talked about it in class, I went, for an
example, crime scene with them so they could have
a general idea of what other people had done.
Awesome. Awesome. What have you learned about
student learning through this activity? So in
general, I'm still working on that, I guess is the
best answer. I've actually started to do some
research on this. I just got the IRB approval for
an exemption for education related material. And
I'm looking at the way this can these sorts of
projects can impact student retention of the
general principles of microbiology. So because
I've taught this course before without the project,
I have control groups sort of one year post class,
two years post class, and I just give them a short
term question, multiple choice quiz about what I
think our main concepts that I would like them to
know long term. And then I'll do that with the
groups that have done the crime scene project as a
final project as well to see if it is enhancing
their retention of the material. That sounds
really exciting. Yeah, on a lesser scale, just
sort of the comments from the course were pretty
positive. A lot of students said that it was a fun
way to learn. They said that they liked seeing how
creative their classmates were, particularly when
they're in other rigorous, structured science
courses. That doesn't that maybe don't give the
outlet for creativity as much. So it gives them
more of a glimpse into their classmates,
personalities and interests. And I had a few
comments that said you should keep this around
this group. So that was nice. Very cool. And I
guess the last question that I've got for you
related to this is, is there anything that you
would change? So you've done this once. Yeah. Is
there anything that you would change about the
assignment and why? Yeah, so I think I would
shrink the group size No. One, so I had groups of
four or five this time. And one comment that I got
from a student would kind of stuck with me. They
said, you know, with a group of five, we each sort
of picked a certain aspect of this microorganism
to research and tackle. And I didn't really feel
like I learned much about the microbe as a whole.
And so I think that limiting the group size, you
would get more of an overview because you'd be
more in tune with different components of it. And
it would also give me the opportunity to increase
the number of microorganisms in the project itself.
So we had 11 last year, which was a decent number,
but I'd like to get in more that have more closely
related symptomology so it can be a little bit
more difficult to discern them. You have to pay
attention to a little bit more. And I also wish
that students incorporated more sort of diagnostic
tests into their clues. So I was hoping for here's
a picture of a gel from a PCR reaction or
something along those lines. So I was thinking
about scaffolding. I want this many clues about
symptoms, a maximum of this, many clues about
epidemiology to really make it have more aspects
of the disease represented in the crime scenes. So
those are the sort of two things that I am working
on refining a little bit. That sounds very cool.
And I think as you're describing it, the the
changes one will make the the exercise more. I
mean, you mentioned more difficult, but at the
same time hopefully provide a greater opportunity
for the students to learn more detailed
information. So thank you for sharing that. One
thing that you mentioned earlier that kind of
piqued my interest also is that you said you
mentioned that you've done podcasting and I don't
have any scripted questions about that. But I
would be interested to hear how when I think about
biology, immunology and podcasts, that they're not
two things that I would immediately put together.
And so that that sounds very interesting to me.
Can you share a little bit about that? Sure. So I
have always been a fan of the Radiolab podcast. I
think that they're very interesting and they're
presented really well in an engaging way. And a
lot of the topics of their podcasts have to do
with microorganisms. I talk about in microbiology
concepts. I talk about in microbiology and
immunology. So the way that those assignments work
is I pick five different Radiolab podcasts that
relate to content we're talking about in class,
and students have to pick two out of the five to
listen to throughout the semester. And so they
have a little bit of control to pick information
that's most interesting to them. Or I think a lot
of times it might boil down to I don't have a lot
else going on this week because they can get sort
of swamped with exams. But that's that's fine, too.
And what they do is they listen to it. And then I
ask them to write just a short one to two page
response to me about how did this podcast relate
to content we covered in class? What did you like
about how these scientific concepts were presented?
Did you think that the podcast did a good job
talking to a broad audience about these concepts?
So so people who might not have a strong biology
background or other type of scientific background,
and how do you envision using these sorts of
communication methods with your patients in the
future? So how can you use this as a springboard
for talking about scientific concepts with your
patient? Was maybe an accountant or an electrician?
OK, very cool. Have you ever so you're having the
students evaluate the podcasts? Yeah. OK, have you
considered having them create podcasts? I have. Um,
and so right now I don't have an assignment where
students specifically have to create a podcast in
the biochemistry course I direct their final
project is to choose a disease that affects the
sort of craniofacial region and explain the
biological basis of that disease and its diagnosis
and treatment to. A patient in a way that most
patients can understand, and I let the medium of
that wide open, so I have had students submit
podcasts to me through that assignment and they're
just always really fantastic. They made them
really quirky or sort of funny things. Some of
them even pick their own introduction music. I had
one student who interviewed his brother as a guest
on the podcast for his final assignment. So those
are those go well, I just haven't dreamed up a
project yet where the only podcast should be
submitted. Sure, sure. How have you thought about
and how do you go about assessing? So if there's
if there's an option for a podcast or whatever,
how does how does the assessment of that differ
from an exam or a paper or how have you have you
worked that into into that. Right. So for that
particular project, everyone is submitting some
sort of information piece. So I have had
everything from the podcast to children's books to
pamphlets you would pick up at a doctor's office
to a recorded PowerPoint presentation. Someone did
a YouTube video. And so I try and take the
creativity out of it as much as possible because
those sorts of projects always intimidated me when
I was in school. I don't think of myself as a
particularly creative person. I have like zero
drawing abilities. So what I do is I make really
detailed rubrics about this is what I want you to
tell me about the biological basis of the disease.
This is what I want you to tell me about the
treatment of the disease. This is what I want you
to tell me about the diagnosis. And so the point
values are for the science itself, for people that
like sound information and then appoint value for.
Did you communicate this to a broad audience?
Right. So if you're trying to talk to a kid about
cavities, is this accessible for someone who's 10
years old or if you're trying to talk about
oropharyngeal cancer or are you talking to someone
who's an electrician in a way that they understand
and don't feel overwhelmed about it? So the medium
is is left to the students to show their
creativity and they're not judged or graded on
that component. Awesome. Thank you. You really
highlighted how the objectives, the the things
that you want the students to demonstrate really
are key and that the the medium isn't as important
in that in the or. Exactly. And that can, I think,
increase the fun of the project and decrease the
stress as well. And that's a big thing that I want
to do, is allow students to communicate to me how
they've learned and progressed throughout the
semester in a way that they're comfortable with
because most people just aren't comfortable with
exams. Right. They're high stress environments. So
if you can do it in a fun way, why not? And
there's one agreed. It is not a catalogue or a
stack of. Yeah, just scantron sheets or whatever.
Right. It's really get a sense of the personality
of each student. And I feel more connected to my
classes after these projects. I think that would
resonate with a lot of a lot of people. You know,
we're we're always talking about sense of
belonging and student engagement and retention and
all of those things. But I think what it comes
down to is that that connection between the
instructor and the student, you hit the nail on
the head. So thank you. Of course. Well, I really
want to thank you for your time and your
willingness to be interviewed. And it was awesome
to be able to talk with you today. So we're going
to take a quick break and then I'll be right back
to share some closing thoughts about the interview.
Welcome back. I think that there are three key
ideas that we can take away from Kristen's example.
First, learning objectives are key. All of the
work that students did was informed by the
learning goals that Christine set for her class.
Christine had a clear idea about the skills she
wanted the students to develop and then identified
an activity to meet those goals. Second, the
medium doesn't matter. The creative media forms
that students use to complete projects were
secondary to the objectives and skills that the
students were working toward. Not requiring a
specific format or medium provides choice for the
students in representing what they know. Lastly,
the option for creativity benefited both student
and teacher. The students were able to participate
in a fun activity. They were able to bring more of
their authentic selves into the project. The
creativity also benefited the teacher in not
having to grade lengthy papers or exams. I hope
that this interview has inspired you to consider a
project based approach in your teaching. I hope to
have Christian back in the future to discuss the
results of her research on the effects of her
project based approach. My guess is that her
students will retain the information better
through the project versus exams. Thank you for
listening. If you do not already, please subscribe
to the podcast. The Corner podcast is available on
Apple podcast, Google Play podcast and Spotify
notes. Resources and episode transcripts are also
available on my blog at staff Lawrence Dunedoo.
Rex Jay, have a great day.