1 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:14,090 Welcome to Episode four of the ID Corner podcast, 2 00:00:14,270 --> 00:00:16,010 where we talk about everything teaching and 3 00:00:16,010 --> 00:00:19,610 learning. Over the summer, I had the opportunity 4 00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:22,310 to attend the International Forum on Active 5 00:00:22,310 --> 00:00:24,620 Learning Classrooms held at the University of 6 00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:27,440 Minnesota as a first time attender. It was an 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,810 enriching time, learning about current practice 8 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:32,600 and an opportunity to meet others passionate about 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,510 active learning. One of the contacts I made put me 10 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:38,510 in contact with my guest for today. Dr. Christian 11 00:00:38,510 --> 00:00:41,300 Schindler was a teaching specialist at the 12 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:44,360 University of Minnesota School of Dentistry. So, 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,910 Kristen, can you please share for our listeners a 14 00:00:46,910 --> 00:00:48,740 little bit about your role in the School of 15 00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:52,970 Dentistry? Sure. So I started in the School of 16 00:00:52,970 --> 00:00:55,700 Dentistry about three and a half years ago as a 17 00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:58,340 postdoc at first, and I was researching 18 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:01,370 bacteriophage. And through that, I had the 19 00:01:01,370 --> 00:01:05,960 opportunity to start teaching in the microbiology 20 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:09,380 and immunology courses, specifically doing the 21 00:01:09,380 --> 00:01:12,530 component of the immunology then and from there, 22 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,440 it just sort of grew. And I'm at the point where 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,290 I'm directing the microbiology and immunology 24 00:01:18,290 --> 00:01:21,560 course for the dental students, a similar course 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,740 for the dental hygiene students. And I also 26 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:27,380 directed biochemistry course for the dental 27 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:31,130 students. So I teach quite a bit. Awesome. Thank 28 00:01:31,130 --> 00:01:35,840 you. Can you specifically describe the the course 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,360 for which the this activity that we're going to 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,980 talk about is for? Yeah. So this this activity is 31 00:01:42,980 --> 00:01:46,220 a final project for the microbiology and 32 00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:50,450 immunology course for the dental students. And so 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,400 the way I inherited the course was that it had 34 00:01:55,850 --> 00:01:59,420 four fifty point multiple choice exams and that 35 00:01:59,420 --> 00:02:02,240 was the grading system for it. So there's about 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,850 one in and students in the class. It's a really 37 00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:10,910 big class for what I'm used to. And so getting 38 00:02:10,910 --> 00:02:15,260 those assessments graded quickly with feedback was 39 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:18,230 a concern. I'm not the biggest fan of multiple 40 00:02:18,230 --> 00:02:22,400 choice exams, particularly basing an entire score 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,310 off of that. So the first thing I did was to 42 00:02:25,310 --> 00:02:28,640 integrate some podcast assignments into it for a 43 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,250 couple of years, where students listen to some 44 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:34,880 Radiolab podcasts and talked about how scientific 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,990 communication happened relating to topics. And 46 00:02:38,990 --> 00:02:42,890 from there I decided that projects and different 47 00:02:43,550 --> 00:02:47,480 assignments like that, where students could really 48 00:02:48,380 --> 00:02:52,100 think about the content and apply it to different 49 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:54,290 situations that could be relevant to their 50 00:02:54,290 --> 00:02:58,790 profession gave me the biggest understanding of 51 00:02:59,420 --> 00:03:01,740 their understanding of the material is presenting. 52 00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:07,970 So I moved the assessments for the course to one 53 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:10,880 fifty point exam and everything else is project 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,470 based assessment. Wow. Wow, that's awesome. So 55 00:03:15,470 --> 00:03:17,480 you've mentioned the assignment a little bit. Can 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,260 you can you give us some detail about it? Yeah. So 57 00:03:21,770 --> 00:03:25,250 I found this paper several years ago in the 58 00:03:25,250 --> 00:03:27,950 Journal of Microbiology and Bilel Biology 59 00:03:27,950 --> 00:03:32,060 Education and A.M. publication where a professor 60 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:36,350 had started having his students create murder 61 00:03:36,350 --> 00:03:41,750 scenes from an infection with a microorganism. And 62 00:03:41,750 --> 00:03:44,770 so students worked in groups to create these these 63 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:47,510 murder scenes, essentially these homicide scenes, 64 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:50,780 and design different clues to point to the 65 00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:53,930 identity of the microorganism responsible. And 66 00:03:53,930 --> 00:03:56,810 then they went through and sort of solved all of 67 00:03:56,810 --> 00:03:59,840 these crime scenes. And I thought, wow, what a 68 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,890 great way for students to be exposed to a wider 69 00:04:03,890 --> 00:04:07,040 variety of microorganisms. Get some practice 70 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,950 comparing and contrasting features of bacteria and 71 00:04:09,950 --> 00:04:14,120 viruses and fungal pathogens as well as parasites, 72 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:17,630 and to really hone in on some differential 73 00:04:17,630 --> 00:04:22,670 diagnosis skills that they need as practicing 74 00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:25,970 clinicians, since my students are dentists. So I 75 00:04:25,970 --> 00:04:28,310 took that paper and used it as sort of a 76 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:32,210 foundation to to design the final project or my 77 00:04:32,210 --> 00:04:35,690 course. OK, so so this assignment, as you've 78 00:04:35,690 --> 00:04:39,770 described it, really meets some of the the 79 00:04:39,770 --> 00:04:42,560 important course objectives that you've got for 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,000 for your students. Yeah. And I think it's a useful 81 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,080 and sort of fun, low stress way to really get to 82 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,260 those higher levels of doing taxonomy during 83 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:59,930 assessment without. Creating some really intricate 84 00:05:00,170 --> 00:05:05,180 problem for students to solve or some long essay 85 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:07,790 to write or something like that, and there can be 86 00:05:07,790 --> 00:05:11,030 a group component and an individual component as 87 00:05:11,030 --> 00:05:14,420 well. Awesome. Yeah. So I have kind of the next 88 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:16,610 question I had was why this type of assignment, 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,500 which I think you've kind of been answering. I 90 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,350 mean, any time, any time you can bring fun into it. 91 00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:28,220 I think it's a it's a great thing. How how have 92 00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:30,920 students received this assignment? Does the group 93 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,280 project and I know from my experience, group 94 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:37,040 projects are kind of like, I don't want to do a 95 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,830 group project. So. So what's been your experience? 96 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:43,490 Yeah. So I've only done it one year so far. Full 97 00:05:43,490 --> 00:05:47,180 disclosure, but it was much more successful than I 98 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:50,090 anticipated, so that was really, really great. I 99 00:05:50,090 --> 00:05:53,810 actually only had one student comment negatively 100 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:56,900 on the group aspect. So one person said group 101 00:05:56,900 --> 00:05:59,270 projects are never a good idea. But that was the 102 00:05:59,270 --> 00:06:02,530 only negative feedback I got, which I was shocked. 103 00:06:02,540 --> 00:06:05,420 I expected a lot more pushback. One thing I did, I 104 00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:09,110 let the students choose their own groups. So I 105 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:12,110 presented 11 different microorganisms that they 106 00:06:12,110 --> 00:06:15,560 could choose from. And the class was divided into 107 00:06:16,130 --> 00:06:20,540 two groups, worked on the same micro-organism and 108 00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:24,590 they could sign up then based on the five of us 109 00:06:24,590 --> 00:06:27,230 want to work together or hey, I'm really 110 00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:30,410 interested in this microorganism, who else is 111 00:06:30,410 --> 00:06:34,220 interested in it? So the groups formed in both of 112 00:06:34,220 --> 00:06:37,700 those ways, sort of organically. We just used a 113 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:41,990 live Google doc to do that. That was kind of fun 114 00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:45,440 watching students edit. Sure, sure. There are 115 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,110 groups and things in real time. Would you do it 116 00:06:48,110 --> 00:06:51,140 the same way again? Just kind of let it happen 117 00:06:51,140 --> 00:06:53,930 organically? You know, I think I would because it 118 00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:59,690 seemed to work. I haven't asked students if they 119 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:01,880 preferred forming their group first and then 120 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,340 picking a microbe or just sort of signing up for a 121 00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:07,610 microbe and seeing who else was interested in that. 122 00:07:08,270 --> 00:07:09,920 But that would be some interesting sort of 123 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,350 feedback to get. And then another thing I did to 124 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,460 to really make sure that the groups were 125 00:07:16,460 --> 00:07:19,760 functioning well together for the group portion 126 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,650 because the group grade was worth about half of 127 00:07:21,650 --> 00:07:24,890 the project, was I incorporated self-evaluation 128 00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:28,160 and peer evaluation into it. And I was really 129 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,130 careful with the peer evaluation chunk. And I said, 130 00:07:31,490 --> 00:07:34,190 you know, you can earn up to five points and it's 131 00:07:34,190 --> 00:07:36,740 going to be an average of the scores you get from 132 00:07:36,740 --> 00:07:39,920 your other group members. And if your average 133 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,810 score from the peer evaluations is under two point 134 00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:48,410 five, so essentially 50 percent, you don't get 135 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:52,280 peer evaluation points. So I made it sort of your 136 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,130 group members have to be satisfied, reasonably 137 00:07:55,130 --> 00:07:58,520 satisfied with your contributions to earn those 138 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,030 points. And everyone did earn them. But there was 139 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,740 that range of evaluation points. So it just sort 140 00:08:06,740 --> 00:08:10,100 of up the stakes on you need to be involved in 141 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:13,370 this component. Sure. And so that was five points 142 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:18,840 out of their total score. Yeah. And I think. I 143 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,790 can't actually remember off the top of my head, I 144 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:23,730 believe the group component was worth 50. Yes, 145 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:27,810 five points and then I think, yes, a total of 50 146 00:08:28,470 --> 00:08:32,400 for the group. Yep. And then the the individual 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,050 component where they actually went through and 148 00:08:34,050 --> 00:08:37,320 solved crime scenes was also worth fifty points. 149 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,050 So you could earn half of the points for the 150 00:08:40,050 --> 00:08:44,160 entire project on your own, which is another way 151 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,600 to sort of alleviate those groupware concerns. Yes. 152 00:08:48,610 --> 00:08:54,090 Yes. So this is in the context of the course. This 153 00:08:54,090 --> 00:08:58,290 is a final project. What kinds of support or 154 00:08:58,290 --> 00:09:00,900 scaffolding did you provide the students before 155 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:04,960 they get here, both in terms of the the activity, 156 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:08,580 the content itself, but then also the peer to peer 157 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:11,970 and group kind of dynamics, things like was it 158 00:09:11,970 --> 00:09:16,860 just here you go? Or so I made a document that 159 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:20,070 sort of broke down. Here's a group component of 160 00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:24,690 this, and you earn your points in these ways. So 161 00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:27,450 the main component of earning points in the group 162 00:09:27,450 --> 00:09:30,660 project or the clues that you provided in your 163 00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:34,620 crime scene. So sort of building out the crime 164 00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:38,790 scene for your classmates to solve the self and 165 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:41,850 peer evaluation. And then you also had to provide 166 00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:44,340 the rest of the class with the information to 167 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:47,520 solve the crime scene. Right. So you made the 168 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,430 groups made a little ID card that had things like 169 00:09:50,430 --> 00:09:53,760 symptomology of the organism, whether it's a 170 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,610 bacteria or virus, it's gram positive, gram 171 00:09:56,610 --> 00:09:58,980 negative. Those types of informations, 172 00:09:59,250 --> 00:10:03,030 epidemiology, any vector associated with it, the 173 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,700 sort of critical pieces of knowledge and then a 174 00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:09,480 sort of a fun, creative bit, I had them create a 175 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,010 mug shot for their their perpetrator, if you will, 176 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:18,750 as well. So there was very clear point values 177 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:21,030 associated with all of those. And I tried to 178 00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:23,250 provide a clear description about what you needed 179 00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:26,880 to do to get to those point values and have an 180 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:29,520 independent part was a little easier because it's 181 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:31,890 it's solving the crime scene. Right. You identify 182 00:10:31,890 --> 00:10:34,560 what the microorganism is that caused that crime 183 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:38,760 scene and then give me a treatment option that's 184 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,430 available in one way that that could have been 185 00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:44,040 prevented. So to bring in the treatment and 186 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,460 prevention and I also showed them an example. So 187 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:49,800 when we talked about it in class, I went, for an 188 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,770 example, crime scene with them so they could have 189 00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:56,250 a general idea of what other people had done. 190 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,910 Awesome. Awesome. What have you learned about 191 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,080 student learning through this activity? So in 192 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,890 general, I'm still working on that, I guess is the 193 00:11:07,890 --> 00:11:11,490 best answer. I've actually started to do some 194 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:16,770 research on this. I just got the IRB approval for 195 00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:21,150 an exemption for education related material. And 196 00:11:21,150 --> 00:11:24,060 I'm looking at the way this can these sorts of 197 00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:27,270 projects can impact student retention of the 198 00:11:27,270 --> 00:11:30,870 general principles of microbiology. So because 199 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:33,120 I've taught this course before without the project, 200 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,200 I have control groups sort of one year post class, 201 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,840 two years post class, and I just give them a short 202 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,810 term question, multiple choice quiz about what I 203 00:11:42,810 --> 00:11:45,930 think our main concepts that I would like them to 204 00:11:45,930 --> 00:11:49,590 know long term. And then I'll do that with the 205 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:52,260 groups that have done the crime scene project as a 206 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:55,380 final project as well to see if it is enhancing 207 00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:57,980 their retention of the material. That sounds 208 00:11:57,990 --> 00:12:01,320 really exciting. Yeah, on a lesser scale, just 209 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,550 sort of the comments from the course were pretty 210 00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:09,120 positive. A lot of students said that it was a fun 211 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,230 way to learn. They said that they liked seeing how 212 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:17,310 creative their classmates were, particularly when 213 00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:21,360 they're in other rigorous, structured science 214 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,120 courses. That doesn't that maybe don't give the 215 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,360 outlet for creativity as much. So it gives them 216 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,830 more of a glimpse into their classmates, 217 00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:33,060 personalities and interests. And I had a few 218 00:12:33,060 --> 00:12:35,820 comments that said you should keep this around 219 00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:39,420 this group. So that was nice. Very cool. And I 220 00:12:39,420 --> 00:12:41,610 guess the last question that I've got for you 221 00:12:41,610 --> 00:12:45,300 related to this is, is there anything that you 222 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:49,210 would change? So you've done this once. Yeah. Is 223 00:12:49,210 --> 00:12:50,680 there anything that you would change about the 224 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:55,030 assignment and why? Yeah, so I think I would 225 00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:59,410 shrink the group size No. One, so I had groups of 226 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:03,040 four or five this time. And one comment that I got 227 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,250 from a student would kind of stuck with me. They 228 00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:09,610 said, you know, with a group of five, we each sort 229 00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:12,670 of picked a certain aspect of this microorganism 230 00:13:12,670 --> 00:13:15,760 to research and tackle. And I didn't really feel 231 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,090 like I learned much about the microbe as a whole. 232 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,410 And so I think that limiting the group size, you 233 00:13:23,410 --> 00:13:25,720 would get more of an overview because you'd be 234 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,360 more in tune with different components of it. And 235 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,900 it would also give me the opportunity to increase 236 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:35,500 the number of microorganisms in the project itself. 237 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:39,730 So we had 11 last year, which was a decent number, 238 00:13:39,730 --> 00:13:44,440 but I'd like to get in more that have more closely 239 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,170 related symptomology so it can be a little bit 240 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:50,650 more difficult to discern them. You have to pay 241 00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:55,990 attention to a little bit more. And I also wish 242 00:13:55,990 --> 00:14:00,910 that students incorporated more sort of diagnostic 243 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,140 tests into their clues. So I was hoping for here's 244 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,170 a picture of a gel from a PCR reaction or 245 00:14:11,170 --> 00:14:14,170 something along those lines. So I was thinking 246 00:14:14,170 --> 00:14:19,390 about scaffolding. I want this many clues about 247 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,020 symptoms, a maximum of this, many clues about 248 00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:28,930 epidemiology to really make it have more aspects 249 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:32,350 of the disease represented in the crime scenes. So 250 00:14:32,350 --> 00:14:35,380 those are the sort of two things that I am working 251 00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:38,380 on refining a little bit. That sounds very cool. 252 00:14:39,610 --> 00:14:42,880 And I think as you're describing it, the the 253 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,990 changes one will make the the exercise more. I 254 00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:48,490 mean, you mentioned more difficult, but at the 255 00:14:48,490 --> 00:14:51,770 same time hopefully provide a greater opportunity 256 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:53,890 for the students to learn more detailed 257 00:14:53,890 --> 00:14:57,280 information. So thank you for sharing that. One 258 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,990 thing that you mentioned earlier that kind of 259 00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:02,080 piqued my interest also is that you said you 260 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,140 mentioned that you've done podcasting and I don't 261 00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:07,780 have any scripted questions about that. But I 262 00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:12,160 would be interested to hear how when I think about 263 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,930 biology, immunology and podcasts, that they're not 264 00:15:16,930 --> 00:15:18,610 two things that I would immediately put together. 265 00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:21,100 And so that that sounds very interesting to me. 266 00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:25,690 Can you share a little bit about that? Sure. So I 267 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,480 have always been a fan of the Radiolab podcast. I 268 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,490 think that they're very interesting and they're 269 00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:35,740 presented really well in an engaging way. And a 270 00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:39,610 lot of the topics of their podcasts have to do 271 00:15:39,610 --> 00:15:42,670 with microorganisms. I talk about in microbiology 272 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:45,190 concepts. I talk about in microbiology and 273 00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:49,900 immunology. So the way that those assignments work 274 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:54,760 is I pick five different Radiolab podcasts that 275 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,820 relate to content we're talking about in class, 276 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,750 and students have to pick two out of the five to 277 00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:04,420 listen to throughout the semester. And so they 278 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:09,400 have a little bit of control to pick information 279 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,100 that's most interesting to them. Or I think a lot 280 00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:14,590 of times it might boil down to I don't have a lot 281 00:16:14,950 --> 00:16:17,830 else going on this week because they can get sort 282 00:16:17,830 --> 00:16:21,460 of swamped with exams. But that's that's fine, too. 283 00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:24,720 And what they do is they listen to it. And then I 284 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:27,880 ask them to write just a short one to two page 285 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,570 response to me about how did this podcast relate 286 00:16:31,570 --> 00:16:34,750 to content we covered in class? What did you like 287 00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:39,190 about how these scientific concepts were presented? 288 00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:41,920 Did you think that the podcast did a good job 289 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,400 talking to a broad audience about these concepts? 290 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,110 So so people who might not have a strong biology 291 00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:54,040 background or other type of scientific background, 292 00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:57,730 and how do you envision using these sorts of 293 00:16:57,730 --> 00:17:01,570 communication methods with your patients in the 294 00:17:01,570 --> 00:17:05,110 future? So how can you use this as a springboard 295 00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:08,260 for talking about scientific concepts with your 296 00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:12,420 patient? Was maybe an accountant or an electrician? 297 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:16,450 OK, very cool. Have you ever so you're having the 298 00:17:16,450 --> 00:17:21,250 students evaluate the podcasts? Yeah. OK, have you 299 00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:26,510 considered having them create podcasts? I have. Um, 300 00:17:26,890 --> 00:17:30,190 and so right now I don't have an assignment where 301 00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:34,120 students specifically have to create a podcast in 302 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:36,760 the biochemistry course I direct their final 303 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,260 project is to choose a disease that affects the 304 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:43,690 sort of craniofacial region and explain the 305 00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:47,560 biological basis of that disease and its diagnosis 306 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,840 and treatment to. A patient in a way that most 307 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,870 patients can understand, and I let the medium of 308 00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:57,370 that wide open, so I have had students submit 309 00:17:57,370 --> 00:18:01,900 podcasts to me through that assignment and they're 310 00:18:02,050 --> 00:18:05,530 just always really fantastic. They made them 311 00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:10,750 really quirky or sort of funny things. Some of 312 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:14,230 them even pick their own introduction music. I had 313 00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:17,470 one student who interviewed his brother as a guest 314 00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:20,560 on the podcast for his final assignment. So those 315 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,640 are those go well, I just haven't dreamed up a 316 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,760 project yet where the only podcast should be 317 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,140 submitted. Sure, sure. How have you thought about 318 00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:35,740 and how do you go about assessing? So if there's 319 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:40,030 if there's an option for a podcast or whatever, 320 00:18:40,030 --> 00:18:42,970 how does how does the assessment of that differ 321 00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:48,100 from an exam or a paper or how have you have you 322 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:52,480 worked that into into that. Right. So for that 323 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,560 particular project, everyone is submitting some 324 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,760 sort of information piece. So I have had 325 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,200 everything from the podcast to children's books to 326 00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:08,740 pamphlets you would pick up at a doctor's office 327 00:19:09,340 --> 00:19:12,670 to a recorded PowerPoint presentation. Someone did 328 00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:15,610 a YouTube video. And so I try and take the 329 00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:18,640 creativity out of it as much as possible because 330 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,060 those sorts of projects always intimidated me when 331 00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:24,430 I was in school. I don't think of myself as a 332 00:19:24,430 --> 00:19:27,610 particularly creative person. I have like zero 333 00:19:27,610 --> 00:19:32,410 drawing abilities. So what I do is I make really 334 00:19:32,410 --> 00:19:35,080 detailed rubrics about this is what I want you to 335 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,440 tell me about the biological basis of the disease. 336 00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:40,540 This is what I want you to tell me about the 337 00:19:40,540 --> 00:19:42,940 treatment of the disease. This is what I want you 338 00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:45,660 to tell me about the diagnosis. And so the point 339 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,780 values are for the science itself, for people that 340 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:53,440 like sound information and then appoint value for. 341 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,010 Did you communicate this to a broad audience? 342 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:58,750 Right. So if you're trying to talk to a kid about 343 00:19:58,750 --> 00:20:02,200 cavities, is this accessible for someone who's 10 344 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,360 years old or if you're trying to talk about 345 00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:08,560 oropharyngeal cancer or are you talking to someone 346 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,650 who's an electrician in a way that they understand 347 00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:14,650 and don't feel overwhelmed about it? So the medium 348 00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:17,110 is is left to the students to show their 349 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:21,160 creativity and they're not judged or graded on 350 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,160 that component. Awesome. Thank you. You really 351 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,340 highlighted how the objectives, the the things 352 00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:29,500 that you want the students to demonstrate really 353 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:33,610 are key and that the the medium isn't as important 354 00:20:33,610 --> 00:20:37,270 in that in the or. Exactly. And that can, I think, 355 00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:41,710 increase the fun of the project and decrease the 356 00:20:41,710 --> 00:20:46,150 stress as well. And that's a big thing that I want 357 00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:49,780 to do, is allow students to communicate to me how 358 00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:51,580 they've learned and progressed throughout the 359 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:55,840 semester in a way that they're comfortable with 360 00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:58,930 because most people just aren't comfortable with 361 00:20:58,930 --> 00:21:01,720 exams. Right. They're high stress environments. So 362 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,590 if you can do it in a fun way, why not? And 363 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:11,320 there's one agreed. It is not a catalogue or a 364 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,800 stack of. Yeah, just scantron sheets or whatever. 365 00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:19,870 Right. It's really get a sense of the personality 366 00:21:20,020 --> 00:21:23,230 of each student. And I feel more connected to my 367 00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:26,470 classes after these projects. I think that would 368 00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:29,320 resonate with a lot of a lot of people. You know, 369 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,300 we're we're always talking about sense of 370 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:35,380 belonging and student engagement and retention and 371 00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:37,960 all of those things. But I think what it comes 372 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,720 down to is that that connection between the 373 00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:42,910 instructor and the student, you hit the nail on 374 00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:46,840 the head. So thank you. Of course. Well, I really 375 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,460 want to thank you for your time and your 376 00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:52,390 willingness to be interviewed. And it was awesome 377 00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:55,480 to be able to talk with you today. So we're going 378 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,640 to take a quick break and then I'll be right back 379 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,070 to share some closing thoughts about the interview. 380 00:22:09,050 --> 00:22:11,630 Welcome back. I think that there are three key 381 00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:14,340 ideas that we can take away from Kristen's example. 382 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,080 First, learning objectives are key. All of the 383 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,300 work that students did was informed by the 384 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,580 learning goals that Christine set for her class. 385 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,250 Christine had a clear idea about the skills she 386 00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:27,710 wanted the students to develop and then identified 387 00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:31,880 an activity to meet those goals. Second, the 388 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,610 medium doesn't matter. The creative media forms 389 00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:36,800 that students use to complete projects were 390 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,410 secondary to the objectives and skills that the 391 00:22:39,410 --> 00:22:42,320 students were working toward. Not requiring a 392 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,770 specific format or medium provides choice for the 393 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:49,230 students in representing what they know. Lastly, 394 00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:52,440 the option for creativity benefited both student 395 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,470 and teacher. The students were able to participate 396 00:22:55,470 --> 00:22:58,470 in a fun activity. They were able to bring more of 397 00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,990 their authentic selves into the project. The 398 00:23:00,990 --> 00:23:03,360 creativity also benefited the teacher in not 399 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,390 having to grade lengthy papers or exams. I hope 400 00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:08,640 that this interview has inspired you to consider a 401 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,550 project based approach in your teaching. I hope to 402 00:23:11,550 --> 00:23:13,650 have Christian back in the future to discuss the 403 00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:16,140 results of her research on the effects of her 404 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:18,810 project based approach. My guess is that her 405 00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:20,730 students will retain the information better 406 00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:24,090 through the project versus exams. Thank you for 407 00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:26,790 listening. If you do not already, please subscribe 408 00:23:26,790 --> 00:23:30,150 to the podcast. The Corner podcast is available on 409 00:23:30,150 --> 00:23:33,420 Apple podcast, Google Play podcast and Spotify 410 00:23:34,110 --> 00:23:37,500 notes. Resources and episode transcripts are also 411 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:41,010 available on my blog at staff Lawrence Dunedoo. 412 00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:43,920 Rex Jay, have a great day.