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On Episode 5 of Convergence, trigger warning, we discuss a pretty gnarly car accident, although

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thankfully everyone walked away from it. And met a trigger warning, we talk quite a bit about trigger warnings.

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Oh, and I quit working on Bramble. Okay, let's go.

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I've been listening to more of this book, thank you for being late, and I don't actually really know why I'm reading it, because it's just really depressing.

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I'm like more than halfway through it. It's not, it hasn't provided the the optimists part of it subtitle yet.

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Yes, so you were looking for that like, how is this not going to suck and you haven't found it?

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Yeah, it's just like a lot about climate change and how technology is causing it and not doing its job to prevent it and

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in a bunch of other, like way more stuff than that. And anyways, a big part of it is just reinforcing this idea that I already

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have, which is that I want the world and, I mean, obviously individual countries, but really the world

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to have a universal basic income. And just we have enough resources, we have the systems in place.

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We can just make it happen. We can all just decide that that's the right thing to do because it is.

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That everybody just has enough. And then, but then also, you know, then that cascades into more people living

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and living longer lives and healthier and then an overpopulation is also a big part of this book and

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this problem that we're going to have nine billion people by 2050, which is less than 20 years away.

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And like, then, you know, if people stop dying and this is going to keep making more people. And

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so yeah, so actually I strike that. I don't know what the solution is. Everything is spot.

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I think, yeah, I think about the the whole universal basic income thing and about,

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I guess what we might call welfare in general. And I don't think there's a money problem. It's an

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ideological problem and it's a judgment problem. I think there is so much, I mean, over here it's

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this class, that is an issue. And I think maybe it is in the States, well, I don't know the States is

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as class obsessed as we are. Yeah, we just label it differently. But yeah, yeah. And I think, you know,

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this, so this came up this week in that the Chancellor, the person with the money,

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with the purse strings is enacting legislation that says, if you have been out of work due to

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your disability and you've been claiming benefits as a result of that, then you, if you don't engage

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with basically they're going to try and force you back into work. And if you don't engage with it,

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yeah, then you'll lose your benefits, which is a fundamental and deliberate misunderstanding of what

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those benefits are. They're not benefits to enable you to, they're not benefits tied to your productivity.

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And that's the problem that ideologically they want to, and by they, I mean, you know,

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our current government, which happens to be the conservative party, they want to tie your worth as an

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individual or your ability to live as an individual to your ability to produce to the GDP. And if you can't

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produce, if you can't add to the GDP, then you are a blight, you are a problem, and we can't, we don't

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want to support you. And that is an ideal logical issue that you can't make by saying, you know,

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a universal income because they don't want to solve that problem. Because there are people who believe

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that disabled people fundamentally are kind of just, you know, getting away. And they're just

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a drag basically. And we want to crack on and do what we want to do. And I don't think it's necessarily

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like, on a personal level, people believe that, but I think on a systemic level when you get enough

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people who have a shared ideology, I think that's the ideology that comes out of the machine. I don't

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think people are that cruel, but they create cruel systems. Yeah, on an individual basis, a person is like,

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oh, no, I want the person to be just fine. But on a systemic basis, people are like, yeah. So I was playing,

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yeah, a few months ago I was playing the, the bedtime game of what would you do if you won like a

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million pounds? And so I'm going to ask to you what you were going to do with the money. And you

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wanted to have a nice charitable answer. And yes, you know, we can talk about cancer research and

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all these various things. But the where I started to go with it is how interesting would it be?

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And it's lofty and it is maybe a bit honest and maybe a bit poof-faced or whatever, but I really

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engaged with the idea of what if we could write some kind of simple book with easily, easily,

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easily translatable concepts that basically taught worldwide empathy from an early age.

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And you do something about working without judgment, working with curiosity with people and making it,

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you know, doing the work to make it so compelling at a, like a neurological level, you know,

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using what we know about addiction, using what we know about how to make addictive things,

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how can we make a book that is so page turning and so fun and interesting and engaging and, you know,

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perhaps it's brightly colored and, you know, and maybe there's different versions that appeal to different

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nations and the way they think that ultimately gets us to this thing of just like over a generation,

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can we have this fundamental understanding, this global understanding of just our fellow human

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and a basic compassion for how can we teach compassion for people we don't know?

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Yeah, I don't know. That's incredible. Let's have one of our listeners give us a million dollars

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and on that right away, I am done. So, well, you have had something of a week, my friend.

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Yeah, yeah, it was on Monday, had this amazing time went to the symphony.

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Margaret and I went to the symphony, my father-in-law is a double basis in the organ symphony

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and not just the basis, but a double basis. Yeah, double basis.

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And I tried to write a word out of the funny. He's so good at the beefy's double.

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I only mentioned it because I didn't, I everybody kept referring it to him playing the bass.

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Yeah, and then at some point it said the double bass and I was like, "Oh, what's a double bass?"

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And I'm like, "Oh, that's just the bass. They just call it a bass." And I'm like, "What is?"

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So there's an bass, a electric guitar. There's a bass acoustic guitar. There's a double bass.

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And I know that as an upright bass. And like, but they all call them bass.

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All of them are called bass. And then bass is called bass. And then the fish, a bass, is spelled bass.

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And I just get so confused. So anyways, I used to know an Andy Bass. He was a bass, not a bass.

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Oh, no. But this is not a wave, no, and you can't know a wave, no. How is he supposed to know?

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But then afterwards we, and then Margaret's mom was also there with us when we were all watching the symphony.

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It was beautiful as the Shakespeare mid-Summer Night's Dream.

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My Nicholson, Nicholson, something like that. I'm embarrassing myself. I know, but it was beautiful.

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It was really great. And then afterwards we went for drinks with Margaret's parents.

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And yeah, it just had a great time. Oh, and then also when we drove home, we got T-Bounded

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at an intersection of a few blocks from our house. Also that. Car, a pickup truck was fleeing police

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in a residential area at around 50 miles an hour or more. And sped through a red light that we were

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cruising through on the green and hit the front passenger side. We spun around. We spun so much

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that our tail ended up hitting their car. It hit us and then flipped or like fish tailed and hit them.

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Airbags deployed everywhere. More airbags than we knew existed. And now, now is how

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the safety features of Yoko? Yeah, yeah. This little knits of B-sheenarage is tiny little thing.

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Saved our lives. It was beautiful. There is smoke everywhere. I never actually saw the other vehicle.

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I just heard from a witness that it was a pickup truck. But it came so fast and it was so dark.

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At night, all I saw was the trail of the headlights coming towards the intersection. I'm like,

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oh shit, they're not slowing down. And like slammed on my brakes. Because typically when you're driving

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through, people will come up fast to an intersection and they're slow down right at the sidewalk.

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Or at the crosswalk. And so just hit me like, oh shit, they're not slowing down. And so I like

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got a couple inches or a couple feet out of braking thankfully because they hit just in front of the

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passenger side door. I feel like if I hadn't slowed down a little bit, like it could have

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been a lot worse, especially in market. But for both of us. And yeah, and then the two seconds after

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the car stops shaking and we're just sitting there for a second. We hear the truck

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peel out and drive down the road and get away because they were still trying to flee police.

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And we happened to be at the border of the county line city line border. And so the other city,

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happy valley that's chasing these police. They have to stop because they're not allowed to pursue

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in Portland. And so the guy gets away. Which is just like, okay, well if you're going to chase them

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up to the border, like you're just trying to chase them out of your town. Like, is that

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this what we're at right now? Because like if you weren't in a high speed pursuit, then we wouldn't have

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gotten hit. But anyways, that's just me continually mad at the police. And then so we

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so we check in with each other. We both like ask each other like five times. Are you okay? Are you?

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I'm okay. Are you okay? And then we're fine. No bones are protruding from our skin. We're rattled

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but we're alive. And so Margaret bolts out of the car and gets to the gypsies to the side of

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us because she sees so many movies with exploding cars. But she doesn't know if something's going

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to happen. I just think that's so adorable. It's just perfect. It's just perfect. And I'm thinking

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like after after we talk about it, I was thinking about what we have like an empty tank of gas anyway.

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Like even if that was possible, which probably isn't, it would be just like poof.

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And this car just runs on fumes. It was a delightfully light three-cylinder engine car. And so

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and that's why it spun so much. And actually I think because you're like even though it was tiny

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and had no bulk, it had no real protection, like armor. It was so light that we spun and like I

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feel like we didn't slam our heads into the airbags or anything. We just kind of like twisted

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and like all of our momentum kind of got shifted around and we didn't really get banged up too much.

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Margaret asked like if we were driving my pickup truck instead of what how that would have been different.

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And I'm like well, we probably would have stopped sooner because my brakes are better in my truck.

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But we would have then hit the side of the other truck more and would have probably slammed

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forward and not really twisted because my tires probably grip the ground more and I have more weight

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in my truck. And so like I don't know, I think maybe we fared better in this tiny car.

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I'm not really sure. Anyways, Margaret walked away with a pretty sore shoulder probably a

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rotator cuffed spring and a bunch of breezes on her hand and where the seat belt kind of

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held her in place. And for me I had a a spring ACL which I'm still limping around on

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and general my algebra throughout my body aches and pains and it's kind of triggered a

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fiber my algebra flare like I have been getting down to just like a 1 out of 10 pain every day.

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And now it's up at like a 5 or 6 just because it's just my body is trying to

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to work really hard at repairing this part of my body that's hurt and all those organs,

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all those glands that I use to produce chemicals and stuff in my body are just still kind of tired.

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They're like okay, well when you're fine, when you're when you're doing your self care routine every

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day for three hours and you relax and everything, you can feel fine. That's great. But when you have

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a big sudden injury, we're going to make your herd again. I'll take you to yourself to

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any, or what would you call urgent care? Yeah, yeah we both went to urgent carry. I got they just wrapped me up

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in some asparagus and told us to take out your profit. But yeah we got checked out.

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That's that's the American medical system for you. I think I'd be profanist probably the most

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prescribed drug. It's the one that needs the way it's the one to drug. I'm a, I swear why

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be profaned? Absolutely. I just deal with the pain. I'd rather the things I've learned about how

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I'd be profaned in Adville and those kind of things destroy your gut microbiome. I'm just like,

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I think I'm going to let my body just kind of handle this. Well I had a conversation with because

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there was a big scare or it was a story a few years ago about I'd be profaned and what it

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could do to the heart and stuff. I went and saw my doctor about it. I've got a mystery injury.

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One day I woke up and I was in quite a lot of pain and I couldn't really move my left shoulder

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past a certain point and it also stuff and I still now get a bad back in about shoulder when

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it's really cold and stuff. I just got this weird sort of twin-gy injury. I went to my GP about it.

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I said, just take I'd be profaned and this line. It was really good. It was like, you did the right

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thing, this line, the other don't what it could have been. But take I'd be profaned and rest up.

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I'd said to him, I'd heard this thing about ibuprofen and there's the heart condition of my family,

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I'm overweight and stuff and he was like, basically what a lot of this stuff is. It's the same

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we'd like to ask you a time, ask a time and a few of these other things. You have to take them in such

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big quantities before you actually get to the effects that people are talking about. So yes,

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you can get these issues but you have to be popping more than the recommended dose per day and it usually

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ends up being quite a lot more than recommended dose per day in order to see those kind of symptoms.

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Yeah, because they noticed those trends in rats and stuff when they give them a human size dose for

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rat-sized body and stuff. Post all of that. What was the, and I mean mentally, not physically,

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like what was the next day? Honestly, not so bad. It was mostly like wow, and so thankful to be alive.

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What a time to have this reminder of how fragile life is while we're trying to manifest our dream life

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and it's the day before Thanksgiving and we're thinking about family and brolling our family and

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being around family. It was a lot of, you know, like hot baths lifting my leg and thinking about how

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grateful I am. That was really um, that was really the most of it. Margaret went right back to work the

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next day, which was just she didn't want to. So it happened to us at like 11, 20, 11, 30,

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PM, and um, how did you sleep? Actually, pretty bad. So I didn't, I didn't know exactly how to handle

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my leg yet. So I couldn't find a comfortable position. I typically actually lift a sleep with my legs

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lifted up because I've had a, I've had two conditions. I have, I have pots, which means I have

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very poor circulation, especially my limbs. And so I have giant bulging, varicose veins in my legs because

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the blood just kind of pools down in my legs. And so I lift my legs up at night to help them

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drain back into my body. And then also I fell off a ladder six years ago and cracked a whole bunch

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of bones in my feet. And so now it hurts to let my heel rest down on a bed or anything like that.

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So I just, I generally lift my legs. And so that helped. But I still couldn't quite find a good position

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for my leg. It was just really painful. No matter how I, like if I held it in a position, it was fine.

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But as soon as I like relaxed, then it would hurt. And so it was kind of hard to fall asleep because

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then I would wake up as I'm relaxing as kind of a bed back and forth. But the next couple of days

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as I kind of figured out how the ACL hurts and how what position it likes and doesn't like to be

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in a little bit better. So I've been having better sleep. But that first night was pretty rough.

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So then day two, Tuesday, I guess, Margaret goes back to work, you saw him. Oh yeah, yes,

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he was like, it was super late at night and she was like, I don't want to call them and tell them

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I can't make it because it's like, you know, I have to go babysit them in like nine hours.

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Because she's a nanny and like I'm just like, they'll understand we just had a massive

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car accident. Like it's a nanny agency. They have other people. It'll be fine. But she was like,

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no, I have a duty. She's she's just an amazing chupor. And she handled it pretty well. It seems that

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from what I know of Margaret that that feels like that checked out. Yeah, she is an amazing capacity

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to compartmentalize. But like not in a super unhealthy way of like not dealing with traumas, although

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technically I guess this is just not dealing with a trauma, but maybe delay delay delay

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delay delay with the trauma. Yeah, she has like a four-neck baby again. She listens. I love you.

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But yeah, so I, I did not go back to where I cannot, I cannot work. Maybe, maybe by Monday,

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we'll see. I don't know. And the car, totaled, totaled immediately. Yeah, just the, our insurance agency

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has an app that we use to file the claim. And just by the amount of spots on the, on the car that I touched

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to show it where we had damaged. It's like, oh, yeah, it's totaled. You know, we don't even need the

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estimator to come look at it. But we will anyway. It was also, it was a 2004 Mitsubishi Mirage.

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So it's like a super cheap car and pretty old. And it didn't have a ton of miles on it. It was

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only like 150,000 or something like that. But it, um, there's not a lot of market value in the car. There's

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a lot of value to us, which is like, which is something. But now now, you know, we had been talking about

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getting a family car, getting an electric or a hybrid, you know, and so now it's like, well,

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universe, this is a hard lesson. But cool, we'll take this bridge to get to the next car.

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Didn't have to deliver that quite suspiciously. Yeah. But it gets us going. It gets us out of a rut.

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We're definitely, um, I'm going to have to take some action. But so I've been looking into the

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Chevy Volt, which is man, it's a nice looking car. A hybrid electric plug-in electric in it.

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So they can get 50 miles on electric alone. So most of our commuting would just be on electric,

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which would be really great. And then it can go up to 420 with the gas engine on just on one tank.

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Let's go for the rain, Jungs, I'll let you know. Oh, yeah. But we like to take road trips. We go to

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Montana. We go to Washington and some other places and just, you know, unless your car,

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I, you know, I want that so bad. But the infrastructure to fast charge them is not super great.

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And, um, yeah, just the flexibility of an angle to still cause a bunch of pollution out of the back of

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our cars. Really wonderful. I'm just full. My head is always full of the pros and cons of everything.

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And I'm just like, yes, I'm thankful that we get to burn this resource that we get, we pull from

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out of the ground and it causes more CO2. And yes, thank you for the pollution we're able to

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has. That's a reframing. Well, um, further to our discussion last week. I, um, quit Brumble. Wow,

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it's end of an era already. Yes, yes, less of an era more an era. Um, yeah, no, it wasn't, it wasn't an

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era. It wasn't a mistake. I have no regrets. But I would much rather end it too quickly than too late.

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And so yeah, Saturday, Cameron, I was, as, you know, we were talking last Friday. I was so

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exhausted and really tired. Um, spent too much time dancing with the universe. And so over the weekend,

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I did nothing. I made a delicious chili, con carne macaroni cheese. Oh, yeah, oh my god,

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it was, I described it on Instagram as so as food so comforting, it stroked my hair and told me,

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I got this kind of level of comfort. Um, like I got the real sense that it just wanted to wrap

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me up and tell me how wonderful I am. And so I, you know, what should be a TV and send a difficult

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email to essentially the one other person who was using Brumble sort of out in the world and said, hey,

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uh, let's, you know, um, let's, let's, let's, yeah, let's not be on your new home. Yeah. And,

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uh, it's not you to me. It's exactly, it's very much that. Um, it's just that,

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really what I said last week of kind of realising that there are things that need to be done and I have

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no inclination to do them, um, not no inclination. That's not true. Um, there are other things I would

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rather be doing. And if I'm feeling that right now, um, uh, you know, and and, you know, other things

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that I talked about like the fact that very few people industry-wide or or outside of the industry,

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were like, yeah, this is a good idea. Um, and then it was just lovely to reflect on the things

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that I know long enough need to care about again. Like, I don't need to- I don't have to have a professional

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interest in what YouTube decides is a podcast or not. I don't need to care anymore. Um, I don't

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need to care too much about the blockchain or whether I want to do something with the blockchain, which I don't

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or, you know, various other things. I just, it's, it's nice not to have to care about those things

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again. Um, and to put my stuff back to, back somewhere where I know it will be safe and I know

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it's in really good hands. Like, I spoke to the guys at transistor who, uh, well, he's doing all

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of my stuff before. And I hadn't realized this, but I should have just asked them in the first place.

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Like, can you just restore all my podcasts? I mean, like, yeah, they're all there. Like,

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we deleted, we didn't really delete, they didn't go away. You know what I mean? We just removed them from

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your dashboard effectively. Like, nope, there it is. It's all still there. Um, and, and so it was sort of

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relatively easy to to move back. And so hopefully, uh, there's, there's no disruption, but, um,

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yes, I sort of did that over the weekend and Monday got everything, you know, back to where it should be.

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And it now means that I can spend more time doing the things that really feel like

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they are guided by what I want to do, guided by a bit of joy. Um, I've got a video planned,

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very small one of recorded most of it because I, so, uh, brief, brief, uh, sojourn over to

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manifestation corner as a kind of a test or whatever. Um, I, and there's slightly knowing, like,

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yeah, I can see where the mechanics of this will work out, kind of thing, very early on. I put on my

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list of things to call in a, um, a Bluetooth, self-heating mug called an ember mug. I've heard

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great things about the ember. Yes. Um, so it should any of my family or loved ones listen,

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this is not a slant on you, but I was hoping someone would get it for me for my 40th birthday.

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And, uh, no one did. And so that's fine. And so, I, for whatever reason, it's, there's just something

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about it that's really captured my interest. Um, about just so, so the idea is, uh, you have,

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you have this cup and, um, you can set an optimal temperature and it will keep your liquid at that

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temperature always. And that's quite a thing. It turns out, uh, for one thing, it means you

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drink this. Um, we don't try to go up it down when it's just at the right sweet spot. Yeah, or, or,

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you don't leave it for too long and then just go, oh, okay, well, there's, there's, you know,

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two thirds of a cup or a quarter of a cup, I'll just slurp it down while it's cold.

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It's always at the right temperature. Um, and, so, yeah, there was just, there's something so,

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I don't know, I couldn't, couldn't quite explain why it just felt so lovely. Um, and, uh, so I'd kind of put

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on my list. I was like, I'm going to call in that this mug is half priced in a half price sale,

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something. And I think I knew, because of the only a couple of weeks ago, I think I knew that black

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Friday was was coming up and I was like, this is not without the realms of possibility.

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Um, it didn't come in at half price, but it did come in at nearly two thirds off, um, which was enough to

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put it under my bracket of like, because it's an expensive mug. Um, you know, it, it, it, it, it,

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that's why, for myself, because it's an extravagance. It's a real extravagance. It's a real luxury.

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And so I, yeah, I, I, I didn't allow it for myself. But I, I, I, I searched, I saw it, and it was like,

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yeah, okay, that's like, just under 30% off. I'm going to take that as enough of a sign and I'm going to treat

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myself. And, uh, it arrived yesterday. And so I recorded a little, uh, of some segments of a little

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YouTube video that I'm going to put together because I think it would be quite fun. Um, and I might see

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whatever little creative things I can do. Um, but, uh, yes. So, uh, it's those kinds of things that I want

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to spend more time doing, you know, I want to spend more time making fun stuff and showing,

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as a creative person showing what that life looks like. Um, and so that's kind of where I, that's

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kind of where I want to go. Um, and, uh, it, it, it would so, so yesterday, I was having a conversation

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with a friend who is, um, an, any a gram. I mean, as close to an expert as, as I can imagine being

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that he's been studying it for 20 years. Oh, wow. Or, you know, it's been in his very much his orbit

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and he's been, you know, coaching around it and all that kind of stuff. And we had a preliminary

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conversation yesterday, he's got a hunch and he has this a lot that when it comes to automated tests,

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he thinks I've been mis typed. Okay. Okay. So he thinks I might be a three rather than a nine.

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That could be. Yeah. And that because the three six nine triathletes, nine exactly, I am, um, six when I'm

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sort of strongest and that's a bit more analytical. It's the fire, remember, right, it's the loyal

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skeptic. So that's, you know, getting, getting things done and being as they quite analytical. And then

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when I'm maybe seeking comfort or under stress, I tend to go towards the more acquiescing,

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let's all go along to get along. Let's make peace. I don't want to cause any disturbance.

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And it was a, it was really interesting that the timing of it all because we had this conversation. And I

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I'd stirred up some stuff in my WhatsApp group in my family, WhatsApp group that morning about this

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disability stuff that I was talking about earlier from from our chancellor and I wasn't prepared to

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acquiet or I wasn't prepared to sort of just make peace and be conciliatory. And so it's just me going

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off on one like I was standing my ground and I was kind of demanding that people engage rather than

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humanly. And I think that's related to the fact that this week I've been, I felt really good. I felt really

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positive. I've been just, I like, I've been getting up on the right side of the bed every kind of every

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day and there's, you know, a really good outlook at the moment and there's, I think, something in that

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security is pulling me back from that nineness. And so it's interesting, you know, not that I want

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to cause conflict everywhere, but that I may be a little bit more comfortable in sitting with that and

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be guilty or sitting in that like, it's just yeah, being, being okay and sitting in that conflict for a

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little bit. And so yeah, it was only a preliminary chat, but it's something that we, we may explore

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more because he's, he's much more of a typing interview person rather than a typing test person because

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yeah, the tests I've heard as well are just, they're so based on your actions and not your intentions

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that they can accurately type you. And it's what you think of yourself, which is judged by how

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you feel about yourself at that moment. And when I took the, when I did the test originally,

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it was 80 months, two years ago, doing a very different space than I am now. And so the answer

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is that I give will be very different. And so without, you know, without even knowing it. And so

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I'm quite intrigued and something I want to investigate more. So yeah. That's really cool. Yeah,

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another thing that I've heard is that you want to think about how you would react when you were 20

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because that's after you've kind of, you've, you've you've fully matured as a person, but you haven't

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really started doing any like self work or like honing and crafting and getting

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better than your default, it's kind of just like that's where you're, that's where your default lies is the,

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is the idea. Yeah, I don't like, I've got my writings from when I was much younger. I haven't got

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them to hand, but I looked them up on the way back machine, very privileged in a sense to have

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because of shat so much stuff at the internet for so long. I can go and find it, you know, even

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from not going to preserve it, it is still preserved in aspect by the people at archive.org and I thank them

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for it. I wish some of the MP3s and stuff that I'm shat out into the internet still existed, but they don't

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have to be. But I like myself far more now than the version. I think I liked myself when I was 20,

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but I don't like as as a man in his 40s, I don't like that 20 year old person. I find, you know,

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up until sort of 36, 37, I found into B, I mean, you know, like something I haven't really said much,

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but I, there was a moment where I was a bat, like I was a bully on the internet. Like I remember

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bullying it, like a young guy and it was all down to getting a job feeling like I was secure and

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it was basically tribalism and it was, you know, it was all over. Someone had built a crappy website

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and I just, I was awful. I was horrible. I can't remember why, maybe he was on a forum

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and we're both on a forum and maybe he offered his website up for people to criticize or something.

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I feel like I wouldn't have been that awful if he was just asking for feedback. It might have

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been that he, what it probably was, I bet you, was that he disagreed with something I'd written

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and then I saw his website and then I went to town and I was, it wasn't just me, I was

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bullied up by my friends and colleagues in the office, but I was awful and unapologetic and I was a

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bully. Like that version of me is not a good guy and I can talk about where that came from. Like

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I don't hate myself from that because I can talk about where that comes from and this,

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any of you learn from it and ground. Yeah, absolutely and the thing to learn and to grow

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or the thing that I needed to learn was that I was always safe and that's where all of that

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lashing out comes from is the, for me at least is the sense that I wasn't safe, that I wasn't

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secure, that I wasn't in a play, you know, that I spent a long time being bullied or felt like an

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out or feeling like an outcast and I wasn't where I was. I was safe and I, you know, it's like the

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kitten that doesn't realize it's in the warm and it's dry and it's safe. It keeps hissing and

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spitting and throwing out claws because it doesn't realize actually, you know, what everything's okay,

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you don't need to be, you know, spitting. And so I can look at that person with love and

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and you know, and all that kind of stuff, but at the same time it's like I don't want to be that person again.

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And so yeah, I don't know if I identified with me as at 20, but I'm sure there's a time where I was

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yet more of my authentic self. And for me, I think that is, we'll see that again. That's early child.

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You know, the interaction on the forum, that was your action and it's the underlying

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cause underneath the reason why you would last shout that you were talking about. That's the part

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that you want to analyze to determine your number and think about that kind of stuff. So,

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sounds like you're on the right track. I'm excited to hear what you guys talk about further.

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Yeah, and there's an interesting mirroring, I think, in the, a lot of the work that I do now

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is to try and help people feel safe. And I think there's an interesting kind of interplay there

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in that I know what it's like to be that, you know, that guy who makes people not feel safe.

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Not necessarily in the physical sense. I would hope never in a physical sense, but in that kind of

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intellectual space, you know, huge degrees of snobbery and elitism and all that kind of stuff.

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That, you know, the flip side of that is the work that I do now is, I don't think I'm deliberately

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paying penance for it. But you know, maybe there's a little bit of me that that is, that helps people

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go out into the world and actually make the stuff that they want to make. And I, I hope that,

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I hope that guy, I hope that kid, because you know, I think he was a kid. I hope he's, I'm sure he's fine.

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I'm sure he shook it off. It was only a few days, but, you know, nerds are going to nerd.

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And I was that hard corner for a bit. That reminds me, I, I've only had one time where I've

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really been bullied on the internet and it was a, a mob. What do you call it when a whole bunch of

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people are, are getting it against you? I felt like I was being canceled. I had, I was in this group,

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exo, exo. And it was, it was this ultra liberal conference in Portland, Oregon. And it was,

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in one realm, really great. It just like so wanted to be inclusive and like aware and,

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they were trying to hit all the right buttons, but they were, but they were trying so hard

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that they had blinders on. And they couldn't see where they were then leaving people out or,

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or being super blind about things because they were so focused. And I, I had this, I was working

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with with two other guys and we were going to make a podcast where where three people were talking

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across the aisle. It was going to be me as a, as a leftist. My friend who is super like kind of,

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very knowledgeable, but apolitical is kind of a centrist. And a conservative friend who's going to be on

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the right side, who's going to offer a view into that. He was more libertarian than Republican,

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but he was, he was very like, he's front, he's from the south east. And he was just in, in

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viewed in that culture and could offer that perspective. And we were going to have to try to have

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this common ground conversation. And you know, now the political culture, I think that would fly a lot

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better. But at the time in that group, it was in Africa to allow anybody who was remotely read,

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remotely Republican, remotely right wing, to have any voice at all. Like, they have already spoken,

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they don't get a speaking anymore. They can't stop. And in addition to that, when I was, I was asking

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for feedback about this idea and how I could do it right, I wanted to do it. I wanted to ask the questions,

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like, hey, before I do this, help me do it the right way. Like, how would any, how are you going to

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do this in the most respectful way? Which I think is like, how are you going to, how are you going to

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hammer down on a, how are you going to mob a guy for asking the questions on how he wants to do it right?

357
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But anyways, that's the side of the point. Oh, no, I think I think I was very much as the point,

358
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:14,960
but yes, I mean, it very much is the point for sure, but I used the term POC from my friend,

359
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:22,800
because he, I mean, that's how he's referred to himself, but he's, he's not white. And it didn't really

360
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:33,040
matter to him in this context to share his full ethnicity with everybody. But then I got told that

361
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:41,600
it was super disrespectful of me to use that term to describe my friend, because that's too generic of

362
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,720
a term. It's disrespectful because it's generic and it's not, it's like, oh, you're just saying

363
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:51,920
not white, like, oh, great, you're, wow, be so proud of you. Have a non-white friend. You know,

364
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:58,320
that kind of thing, like, and I've got torn to shreds and they moved it over onto Twitter and like,

365
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:06,960
I had a couple of people, a couple of the white guys that have also been gangmoms to buy this group

366
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,440
that were like, yeah, dude, we feel yeah, you know, you did nothing wrong. But so I had a couple

367
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:18,080
people that were kind of showing me that I wasn't insane, but like, all these people that I had just

368
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:26,640
spent a few months admiring and looking up to and trying to mold myself after, because I wanted to be

369
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:33,040
this good liberal, this good leftist, you know, and this open-minded person and all of a sudden I'm being

370
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:42,480
torn to shreds because I wanted to ask some questions and also like, I was getting in trouble,

371
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:48,240
because I was asking questions and not just looking it up myself. And I'm like, this, this is what

372
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:55,200
this Slack group is for. Like, why are we in the Slack group before not going to ask each other

373
00:43:55,200 --> 00:44:04,320
questions? I don't understand at all and they were just like, yeah, exactly, you don't understand.

374
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:12,240
Get the F out. What in the world? And so like, so it came to the point where they're going to

375
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:17,440
they're going to ban, they tell me, okay, yeah, we need to ban you from this group and I'm like,

376
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:23,200
all right, just wait a sec. I want to take, can you, at least let me take screenshots of all this

377
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:28,080
conversation before I go? And he's like, yeah, you should because you should learn from it. And I'm like,

378
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,080
I certainly will. I certainly will learn from this. And so I did and I look back on those now and

379
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:40,560
man they look insane. Those people are insane. And I've shown it to some other people. I'm like, yeah,

380
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:52,000
you did nothing wrong. This is gross. And you know, I definitely, I did my best when they were

381
00:44:52,880 --> 00:45:01,040
saying their comments. Like, another layer, another aspect of it was that I was being too defensive

382
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:08,000
with my replies. And I was trying to like, I feel like I was pretty mild, like in my

383
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,240
defensiveness. I'm like, oh, okay, thank you for that feedback. That's really interesting. I'll take

384
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,280
that into account. I think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. And this is kind of my message.

385
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:28,320
You know, time to be incredibly gracious and effasive even. And yeah, it was, it was a very, it was a

386
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:37,680
devastating time. I abandoned the project. I really disappointed my friends. And no, you didn't.

387
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,920
I don't know them, but no, you didn't. No, I did. We kind of, we kind of, we kind of, we can't, we, we,

388
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:50,800
I discussed it with both of them at Nazim. And like they, they understand and they felt bad for me

389
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:57,280
and and stuff. But I also like, the three of us have a gross, super far apart. Like, we didn't

390
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:03,440
really stay in touch where we would have. And it was a pretty big bummer and it was, you know,

391
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:12,960
definitely instigated because of that attack. But I get what you're saying as well. Like,

392
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:20,000
yeah, they weren't upset with me. But because of my trauma from that event, I had to pull out.

393
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:26,400
And, and that was hard. And you know, it also going into it in general. Like, I was in this,

394
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:32,240
I was in a pretty unhealthy place. I was in a very unhealthy relationship. My, I was in very unhealthy

395
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:38,960
place with my body. I was not nearly as liquidious and talkative as I am now. Like, now I'd be

396
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:44,880
more, much more able to have those conversations and be with it in the conversation to be able to counter people

397
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:52,160
and bring up facts. Although now I'm completely out of politics and not, not able to have that

398
00:46:52,160 --> 00:47:01,120
conversation for different reasons. But I, I was already struggling with the idea of even being capable

399
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:07,120
of doing that podcast and and representing my side of the argument well enough. And then getting

400
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:12,480
torn to shreds just made me realize, oh, definitely I do not have what it takes to have this conversation.

401
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:20,160
And so it was destroyed. And also, I was so excited for it too because I had, I had three things

402
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,200
that made me outside of the fact that I was excited to have a conversation with my buddies.

403
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:34,880
I had an excellent name for the podcast in Pod, we trust. I had an excellent icon, like,

404
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:44,240
a podcast artwork for it was this, it was a quarter that on the, on the, on the US quarter it says

405
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:51,520
in God we trust. And I photoshopped the G to a P and it said in Pod we trust. And it looked so good.

406
00:47:51,520 --> 00:48:01,360
I am not a photoshop guy and it looked so good. I was so proud of it. And then I started a Twitter account.

407
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,400
And I got like a thousand people following before we even had a podcast episode out.

408
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:12,400
And it was like, oh man, there's, before it, this is going to be exciting. We can actually do something

409
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,840
cool. This could take off. And then I just, I just abandoned shit because I got y'all that.

410
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:24,320
So there's two things I want to, I want to, I'd like us to go to two places that are like

411
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,640
to do the first place. I think we have to sit with the emotion of that. We have to sit with the feeling

412
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:37,360
of that of how, truly that played out and how, truly we're treated. And that feeling. Because

413
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:49,360
listen, if you perhaps don't know Brendan, the things that he was, I mean, no, you know,

414
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:57,360
that look, look into this man's heart and you don't see someone who wants to do anything other than

415
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:08,080
try and understand and bring people together and share love that was true. You know, that's always

416
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,000
been true from when I've known Brendan and the Brendan I know now is very different from the Brendan

417
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:18,480
I knew then, but that was still the Brendan. That was still Brendan. And so, you know, I really want

418
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:24,560
to sit with that for a moment or not sit with it, but acknowledge it and acknowledge the her and how

419
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:33,840
roughly you were treated. I appreciate that. And in lieu of any kind of real lesson, I think what this

420
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:44,000
shows us is part of the issue is trying to have and what can often be a non-linear discussion

421
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:50,240
in a kind of linear format. The problem with something like Slack is that so many people can pile on

422
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:55,520
a wall, you're still talking about, you know, people can ask question two, three, four, five, six, seven,

423
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:01,440
eight, nine, and ten while you're still trying to deal with question one. And as you were doing that,

424
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:08,720
they are piling on more and more and more and more and it's all to do with I think and I kind of think

425
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:13,520
it brings us back to the point right at the beginning is it has almost nothing to do with the issue,

426
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:26,080
it has everything to do with this tribal need or this ideological need to decide what people are to decide

427
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:32,880
they're valid to make a judgment about a person before actually properly engaging. And I think I wonder

428
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:39,760
whether, and these things, the tools weren't as ubiquitous when this happened as they are now,

429
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:47,040
but I wonder whether now and approach would be to say, okay, we've got a choice here. I think you can

430
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:54,800
continue piling on me and I'm going to leave and that's me done, but you can continue having to

431
00:50:54,800 --> 00:51:04,080
go at me if you like or tomorrow at noon, I'm going to open a Zoom room and we can actually have a conversation

432
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:10,800
or we'll do it over discord or we'll do it over Slack chat and we can do this one at a time where you can

433
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,360
come to me with what you believe I said that was wrong and I can talk to you about the thing and

434
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,520
it doesn't have to be defensive but one at a time and if you don't want to engage with that then

435
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:30,000
you actually don't want to know more because like you said you don't understand there for you should leave.

436
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,640
This to me and this is sort of the point that actually I was interested in getting into but it was

437
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:43,040
important that we addressed the emotional point first. There is a really I think a really

438
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:54,960
pernicious and corrosive and really damaging and ugly part of what has now in conservative circles

439
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:00,720
been called woke culture. I think it's a bad name anyway but when we talk about people who are

440
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:07,760
nominally defenders of the downtrodden and defenders of people who are getting a raw deal that's a

441
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:15,920
noble cause and that's one I think we all spoused the world path but there is something really toxic

442
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:27,680
in the we can't even use the phrase I'm just asking the question even using that phrase has now become

443
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,840
a dog whistle because it's become a meme it's become a cliche because what people think that usually

444
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:42,800
proceeds is someone who's going to say something awful that I believe there are still questions

445
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:50,640
and our society that don't have answers yet and people are acting as if they do. I'm not going to

446
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:56,800
list them or the ones I think because those that doesn't matter because whether I've got questions

447
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:07,840
about them doesn't matter but the fact that there are spaces where that dialogue is unwelcome and people

448
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:15,040
are unwilling to engage in that discussion and just to go is that actually the case did that actually

449
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:22,400
happen is this what we think is that sensible is this safe is that we those conversations are shut

450
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:28,640
down in a such a toxic way that I think that is really damaging and that's something that I've come

451
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:36,880
to realise over the last year or two years because it has nothing to do with the intent of the person.

452
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:49,680
Family member recently said there was a contestant on to Viver who goes by they them and they

453
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,960
they were like yeah you know and it is what it is but I'm a human and this person I was speaking to

454
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:01,680
was like well they can't be then because a human can only be you know and this is someone I know is not

455
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:09,440
transphobic and is you know is like me is is trying to understand the gender spectrum and that

456
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:17,200
kind of stuff but I knew that the intention of that person was not to actually claim that this was

457
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:23,680
not a human being but was a question of semantics and so two years ago I would have launched into a

458
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:30,720
whole how dare you this is outrageous you are that wasn't the point the point was it was a semantic issue

459
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:40,960
and there was a misunderstanding in the semantics but there is there is such a glee in those kinds of

460
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:48,480
trans stuff aside like any of these communities like you were talking about there is such a

461
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:55,280
glee sometimes in trying to find that one thing that proves you are not a part of this tribe and therefore

462
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:01,600
we must defend our tribe yeah I can write you off because you mean a mistake yeah or you just came

463
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:07,520
in you went it's that okay that's you know that's interesting well how do I do this and because you

464
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:15,600
didn't already have the answer that was somehow a crime and I just I the more and more and it's

465
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:21,040
so it's so tricky to want this line because it then makes people think that you don't care about those

466
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:28,400
issues you absolutely do but it's then not to a degree that it becomes so toxic you just don't have

467
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:35,280
the exposure yet to the different perspective oh it it it it's we are in a really tricky time and

468
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:43,200
I think we've I've got a friend who's a I wouldn't say an anti-vaxxer but is is vax skeptical

469
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:52,160
and because there are things there are questions that doesn't mean those questions are will prove

470
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:57,760
that they have right answers but it means there are questions and it's that simple by saying

471
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:03,840
by simply saying how have we done the question are we asking the questions does not mean anything other

472
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:10,080
than have we asked the questions but we were so okay anyway you get the point I'm repeating

473
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:22,640
myself but it really I find it impressive and dark I find it really dark I find it really toxic and

474
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:33,120
I find it it's not fascist but it is as restrictive and it is because it's about control and

475
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:39,200
dog whistle again freedom of speech you and I have had so many conversations about a freedom of

476
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:45,920
speech back in my old job and how that to us then was a dog whistle and it's still kind of is because most

477
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,920
of the time the people who talk about freedom of speech are in no danger of having their freedom of

478
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,440
speech challenged because they have all the power already yeah and they just went the excuse to be

479
00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:01,280
able to say shitty things yeah without consequence absolutely without consequence exactly this is

480
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:11,200
absolutely a freedom of speech issue and you can't even it's it's so naughty and eating on itself and I just

481
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:17,200
I find it fascinating but also just so dark that there are now things what I just say I don't

482
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:22,000
have an opinion on that because it's so much easier rather than I have questions rather than I agree

483
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:27,280
I just make it's far safer to not have a public opinion on this because otherwise

484
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:35,680
I would much sorry at last point I think I would much rather engage with someone who

485
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:45,600
disagreed with where I was politically than someone who I was politically aligned with but had this

486
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:53,600
misinterpretation or this idea of always in that it was so tribal that you know I would rather

487
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,440
actually I think that's it like I would rather disagree and have a conversation with someone from a

488
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:03,360
different tribe than someone I thought was in the same tribe because that is so much more toxic okay

489
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:08,960
I'm gonna drink my very warm coffee now and that's exactly what that's exactly what happened to me one thing

490
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,800
I find

491
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:23,840
relieving about our post-woke culture era which actually I don't even this this might be outdated but this is

492
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:32,800
where I left the internet we started we finally started to realize that when a person is triggered

493
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:41,200
that is on the person that's triggered not the person that triggers unless there's somebody is actually

494
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:48,080
trying to be a bully unless somebody is picking a fight that's different but when a person is just talking

495
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:54,560
and they trigger somebody that is non-them that's on the person who is triggered because they have

496
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:59,120
whatever issues that they haven't worked on yet and we all have issues that we haven't worked on yet

497
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:03,760
that's you know that's what we're trying to do here in TBM is what we're trying to do in our daily

498
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:13,360
lives as as as conscientious people, conscious and conscientious and work on our own traumas and not let

499
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:22,000
them affect other people in our daily lives but what happened in that slack group was a few people got triggered

500
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:31,520
and in that at that time back in 2007 or '89 or whatever it was 2009 I think oh it's 2019 I think 2019

501
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:36,640
yeah I don't know time time is the flat circle to me I don't I have no idea I do the same thing

502
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:42,480
I've lost from 2002 2010 like I forget that whole decade exists the reason I think it was around

503
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:48,320
that is because we did a series on burnout and so it might have been late 2018 because this topic came

504
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:53,680
up in the burnout series that we were recording and I think you would just in the process of wanting

505
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:59,920
it down at that point that sounds right yeah yeah but yeah so at that time that the

506
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:08,000
trigger is being on the person who was triggered was not really a part of the culture yet

507
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:13,680
I think there was a couple books and a couple Twitter people and a couple Instagram people that kind of

508
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:22,000
came out and made a good movement on that afterwards but I'm really thankful that we're there now

509
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,920
like because like I had I kind of triggered this is a whole big discussion we won't get into but

510
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:34,720
I triggered my sister kind of recently and it's caused a bit disruption in our relationship and we

511
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:40,960
had a conversation about it and even though she was still upset with me and she's still kind of taking

512
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:47,280
it out of me she could still also understand that this was on her and she was like yeah I know I

513
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,400
have issues I don't have time to deal with them so I'm shutting you out it's more or less how

514
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,560
how it came out came to because she couldn't just couldn't handle me she was protecting herself in

515
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:01,920
that sense that was a question mark no it's not a statement but no it's and it's true it's

516
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:09,280
absolutely yes she has to protect us she just she doesn't have the resources and the capacity to handle

517
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:18,720
both everything that she's piled on into her life and trying to understand and empathize with her

518
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:24,800
brother and what he's what he's about and what he's trying to do so you know everybody's everyone's

519
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:30,160
that they're staging life for the list and again like when and maybe I'm being overly defensive

520
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,640
but when Brendan says it's on you like not that it's your fault but it is your responsibility you know

521
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:41,360
because it's yourself and not out of some sense of duty to anyone else but it's a sense of duty to

522
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,120
yourself that you've got to put your own oxygen mask and you've got to get out of that dangerous

523
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,760
environment you know I'm going to put a trigger warning on this episode probably for probably two

524
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:55,040
one because of the stuff we're talking about now and also because of you describing what happened to

525
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:00,720
this week and I want to make sure and it's only a courtesy you were talking I know someone who was

526
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:06,080
and we talked about them the last week they're not a listener but you know affected by

527
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:13,600
a car collision and it is you know I think if someone gets triggered and has a pop at us

528
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:21,600
if we didn't warn them that's one that you know that's on us if we warn them then yeah it's not like

529
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:27,040
that's on you and point in the finger but it's just that's it's simply the statements of that's why we

530
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:32,960
put the warning in place yeah yeah when it's when it's noble when it's inskecible that's that's a

531
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,960
wonderful thing to do I don't personally subscribe to the fact that that's required and if there's no

532
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:44,560
trigger warning then that's on us for having a conversation and not warning people what's in the

533
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:53,360
conversation personally but I also I think that's mighty respectful to have a trigger warning and yeah I

534
01:02:53,360 --> 01:03:01,040
don't mean like like you said about about being triggered like it's it's not your fault for being

535
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:07,600
triggered but it is your responsibility to deal with not the person who is just saying something

536
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:18,320
without any intention of harming that's not on them it's again it's gone back to intent wow we've we've

537
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:25,520
we've done it nothing we solved it we should have proud of us another week accomplished

538
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:33,040
I love our time together Brendan thank you likewise thank you so much

539
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:44,160
back in the next week

540
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:06,880
I saw a TikTok today of a woman who'd painted her husband's like like a dinner whatever and he was building

541
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:16,560
a bar and he's a big Simpsons fan and she painted this really well put together sort of mural

542
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:22,400
of most haven and she's got mo and all the or the people and it looked really good and

543
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:30,880
I was kind of I was a bit I felt for her because the boyfriend came down and I don't know maybe he'd already

544
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:39,280
seen it but it was just like oh babe that's great and I'm like I think it deserved more

545
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:50,720
it's so easy to get those characters like a little bit wrong oh yeah do you know what I mean like

546
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:55,760
it's so easy to get them just a little bit off and then it's ruined but they're with their looks perfect

547
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:02,000
yeah I don't know maybe he just knows his wife's skill so much that he's not surprised but like he just

548
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:07,040
felt a bit like oh come on give it a bit more a little bit more yeah