Trey: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Trey: Well, Jude I'm excited because today we get to welcome
back the human mic drop himself.
We sign off every week with him, but this week we're kicking it off by welcoming
back the one and only Nick Sandy.
Welcome back, Nick.
Jude: Welcome Nick.
Thanks for having me.
Nick: That was such a good intro.
I just, wow.
Wow.
Trey: How do you feel about being called the human mic drop?
Nick: I mean, I just want to, I want a Jersey that says that on the back of it
Jude: Add it to our list of merch.
Trey: Our long list of to-do of merch.
That's
Nick: spectacular.
Yeah.
Well, how's it going, man?
Oh man, it's going great.
It's been a really good end of the summer.
Like I was telling Judy earlier, like we just had two really quick
vacations that were really great.
Went to Eastern Washington, went to Vegas for the first time for like 22 hours,
Trey: which was crazy.
Wow.
Yeah.
I saw the incident story on that.
That seemed to wild.
Nick: Uh, but yeah, it's just been a really great.
Jude: And you came back from Vegas ready to retire, right?
Oh yeah.
Nick: Fully ready to retire
Trey: that much.
Yeah.
Jude: So I was telling him, and I was telling you the one time I went
to Vegas, I was in like fifth grade.
Right?
And so we were at circus circus and essentially what I would do me and
my friend that was there, my dad would be playing the slot machines
and I would be off on this red carpet that kids were allowed to walk on
to kind of get to the big top area.
And I would just stand on that carpet and watch a slot machine.
And every time it paid, I would take off running, grab his quarters
and then take off and go spin them off on the video games.
Nick: That's all.
Trey: So I think it's safe to say you might have the wildest Vegas story ever.
Jude: I can tell you more about that, but I will save it for off PUD
Nick: stick around to the end, tag everybody, maybe a little
bit of a story about Reagan.
Trey: Thank you for that.
T's well, you know, it's been quite awhile since we've had you on the podcast.
I think the last time you were here, it was when we were doing our wrap-up
for Falcon in the winter soldier.
So obviously there's been a lot of new stuff in the MCU regarding movies.
Uh, we had the whole Loki series as well as some pretty big trailers drop.
Since the last time you were here, is there any potential one that sticks out.
Oh
Nick: man.
I mean, there's so much, obviously that happened.
Uh, Loki was riveting.
Like, honestly, it was so good that I got into, so I work at a church and I
went in early on the last episode, so I can put the episode on the big screen.
Nice.
And I just, I watched it all by myself, like know eight o'clock in
the morning, just like sitting there on the big screen, watching it with
a booming sound and everything.
Trey: I remember you sending me photos of that.
That is such an amazing way to watch it.
And if I'm not mistaken, you had fallen behind because you were just were taking
a break from watching it week to week.
So you had just caught up in time for the finale.
What a way to.
Oh, yeah,
Nick: it was just like, boom, boom, boom.
And then right into the finale.
It was awesome.
And then, you know, go ahead.
Jude: I was just going to say that just sounds like an awesome experience to get
it, to see on a big screen like that.
It's
Nick: pretty awesome.
I've I've done.
I think two episodes of what if in the big screen as well, so
Jude: nice.
Nice.
Nick: Uh, and then on top of that, I mean, you know, all the trailers, um,
obviously Spider-Man like, holy moly, like I'm just waiting with bated breath.
That
Trey: movie can't come soon enough.
Legitimately.
Can't come see it though.
Jude: So where, where do you stand?
Are you going to watch the next trailer?
I think that, I think they're going to put it in front of the venom too.
You know, I,
Nick: I heard you say on the last pod, uh, that I listened to
that you're like, you're done.
You're like, I'm not watching any more trailers.
And then I'm pretty sure Trey was the one said that you have more
willpower than him and you have voice.
Do you have more willpower than me?
Cause as soon as it comes out, I'm going to watch it like five
Trey: times.
Jude: Well, okay.
A friend of mine who swears off all trailers.
He's like, if I I'll trailers, not just Marvel.
He's like, if I'm going to see it, I'm not going to watch the trailer.
He watched the Spider-Man trailer cause he listened to our pot.
Oh,
Trey: well I'm glad we were a bad influence
if that friends listening.
Sorry.
Jude: Sorry, Sean.
Jonathan.
Trey: Yeah.
I admire the strength of anybody who can resist that second trailer.
Cause I know.
And it's it's to the point where maybe we're getting sidetracked already.
I love it.
It's to the point where that movie is already so big that I know I'm not going
to avoid screenshots or memes or trailers.
And if I'm going to experience it, I want to experience it on my own
terms for the first time, rather than just seeing it like repurposed.
Wow.
Nick: That's true.
Yeah.
Uh, beyond that though, like I, I haven't seen Blackwater yet and I
also haven't seen Shang-Chi yet.
And the reason I haven't seen Shang-Chi yet is because I'm debating whether or
not to take my son who just turned five.
And, um, you know, he's never been to a movie before and I'm thinking
like he loves superhero movies.
I'm thinking like, how cool would it be to take him to his first movie, his first
superhero movie, and have it be an Asian superhero for those of you guys that don't
know, like I am, uh, I'm full Korean.
And so to have him look up on the screen, first aid, first superhero
movie, and a guy that looks like him, like, you know, that's something that
I'm like, man, this would be awesome.
Like how cool would it experiences this to look back and be like, that was the
first movie I saw, but I'm just trying to feel out if it's gonna, if he's gonna
sit still for two hours, you know, if he's not going to talk the whole time.
Trey: So,
Jude: you know what I, I would like to highly encourage you
to do that for my daughters.
They.
They had seen super hero movies already, but getting to take them to captain
Marvel and them getting to watch captain Marvel and me watching captain Marvel
with them was just an amazing experience.
It really was.
And all three of them love that movie.
I mean, not just, I mean, it's a good movie, right.
But yeah.
Yeah.
I highly recommend that.
I think that would be such a wonderful experience.
And it's such a unique opportunity as well.
Like you said, to have that first experience and to get
to see that representation
Nick: wait till like a Monday matinee, you know, when there's going to be
a lot of people there, hopefully we can get a whole theater to ourselves.
So if he just ends up talking and asking me all these questions,
like can be like not worried that someone's gonna be mad at me.
Trey: Yeah.
That's really special, man.
I hope you get to pull that off.
Cause that's, that's like one of those life cementing experiences
that I think he'll remember fondly.
So that's really cool.
Well, yeah, man.
Well, thank you for catching us up on your thoughts on the MCU at large.
But of course, if you've downloaded this episode, uh, you know, we're going to
be talking about season one, episode five of what if which is entitled.
What if zombies?
So the way we're going to do this is we're going to have some pre spoiler thoughts,
and then you'll hear an audio cue where we will go into the spoiler zone and
break the episode down into three acts.
So before we get there, we're going to start with you.
Nick, do you have any pre spoiler thoughts for this episode?
Nick: This is an episode that I think capitalized so well on the
style, like being an animated show.
Uh, just was able to pull off something that I don't think they would've been
able to pull off with live action.
And I, I think like, you know, they've been leading up to it.
I think last week's episode had a lot of fantastical things too, but
it could have probably been done live action, but this one was like,
man, what a great, great usage of the medium, like the animation style.
And so, yeah, it was really fun to watch and see how they drew things
and see how they animated it.
And, uh, it was yeah.
Really fun to watch.
Jude: Yeah.
So I'm going to stick with like last week and our initial,
like social media response.
Um, I feel like this series finally hit its stride with this episode, uh, which
it kinda makes sense most episodic or, you know, shows like this take about
four or five episodes to get going.
Um, I expected that to get going a little bit sooner, just cause you're
already working with material, I guess if that makes sense, but this
one strange one in this one, really.
I feel like.
They kind of figured out what they're doing, but I really like what
Nick said, because last week, The animation I think worked really well.
And this week it was the animation was fantastic for the style, which makes
me wonder if they should have changed animation styles per episode, to fit now.
I mean, that probably gets costly, you know, but I, I completely agree that
that the animation just stylistically works so great for, for what they did.
Nick: You know, uh, going back to what you said about this one on Dr.
Strange, I feel like this episode and the last week's episode where the first
one where they, they didn't spoonfeed us really anything, you know, that those
first two were like, just in case you haven't seen anything, we're going to
really catch up on everything that's going on, you know, but you know, this one,
like Peter Parker was just like, boom, you know who Spider-Man is like, boom,
you, you should know who ain't man is.
Boom.
You should know who all these people are by now.
Like, we're just going to jump you into, this is the universe, you
Trey: know, no kind of bridging in between both of y'all's thoughts.
One of the, my preschooler thoughts is I think this is the strongest
episode of the season so far.
And it's been because.
It has strayed the furthest from what we know and looping
it back into what you two said.
I think it is because it's taking advantage of being in that animated
format and having a little bit more fun with it, pulling off things that I
don't think you could do in live action.
And that felt bold.
Uh, so I really appreciated that.
What I mentioned in our social media posts is that it took the familiar tropes
of both zombie and superhero stories and it blended it into something that also
felt perfect for this format as well.
Um, and finally, the last one that I'll I'll put here in the preschooler thoughts
is I think the thing that works the most for me is that this episode brought
together characters who had minimal, if any interactions in the movies at all.
And I think that's really special because I'd rather see what hasn't been done
before than remixes of what has been.
So I appreciated that about this episode.
That's a great
Nick: point.
Trey: I didn't even think about that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's going to wrap up our pre spoiler thoughts.
So like we said, there's going to be an audio cue and on the other
side, it'll be fair game for all spoilers in the MCU except Shang and
black widow, but everything else.
So we'll see you on the other side
and we're back.
So we started this last week.
We're going to continue the trend this week, where we're going to break down
this episode into three acts rather than going through most important topics.
So act one is going to take us from the beginning of the episode where we have
a Hawk being sent back to the sanctum.
Sanctorum like he wasn't infinity war, except when he arrives, he has discovered
there is a zombie apocalypse in the works and that'll take us all the way until we
see the heroes daring, their train escape.
So starting with you, Nick, where would you like to start with in this act?
Okay,
Nick: correct me if I'm wrong, but that's our Bruce
Trey: banner.
As far as like, that's like the
Nick: main MCU timeline, Bruce banner.
Right.
Jude: That's the way I took it.
Me
Nick: too.
So like that for me is like, that's, that's, you know, we were talking, you
guys were talking last week about like, if there's going to be some overarching,
you know, storyline, it's obviously going to be the identical tentacles,
but, but now, like, this is, if I think this is the first time regular, our MCU
timeline has crossed into a different
Trey: timeline.
Hmm.
I'm doing a quick, just kind of recount of the episodes.
And I think you're right.
Cause obviously captain Carter was different to challah was way different.
The closest one I think we got is Dr.
Strange, but even then, like we pointed out, he was already changed
until we got to the point we were familiar with in the movies.
So yeah, that's a very astute observation, Nick.
Nick: So that, that was my big thing.
Like I was like, wait a minute, did they just say, did he just
say, you know, and then yeah.
So I thought that is that's gonna, is that going to somehow tie into
this all thing, like coming together?
Is that going to tie in somehow more than that?
Jude: Because yeah, well, I was gonna say what I like also like about that
is it really, it, it did give me that feeling, um, which actually preached more,
otherwise I, I think you're a hundred percent dead on, in that first step posole
first to where it's like, we've got to spoon VGU you might not remember this.
Um, whereas this one, they just drop you right in that.
That's the other thing I really liked about this opening sequence
is it's something very familiar and then there's a left turn.
Um, you know, uh, similar to that episode three.
So that's, that's something I really liked
Trey: about it, you know, sticky with the scene and playing
off what you two have said.
Uh, I mentioned in my priest portlethen is that the thing I enjoyed was the blending
of the tropes of the different genres.
Uh, starting with that familiar of Hoka being teleported back to the sanctum
sanctorum, but the off feeling of nobody being around to answer him, sir, plants
that dread of Thanos arriving with that all too familiar dread of a zombie movie.
Like so often those stories start where it is an isolated character who
slowly stepping into that unfamiliar of recognizing that something slightly off.
So that was a nice, almost meta blend of how that works.
And it's, it's fun to see them weave familiarity and unfamiliarity
in such a short timeframe.
Yeah.
Were definitely
Nick: shades of like 28 days later.
I thought of, you know, when, uh, Cillian Murphy wakes up after being
in Tacoma and like everything's totally different, you know?
And just,
Trey: yeah.
Yeah.
Well, let me ask you this, Nick, what did you think.
And that moment where Bruce is going outside and he has that realization
where he sees Tony's hand come through strangest portal and like reposts or
blasts the, the, the arrivals, like, how did you feel once that turn happened?
And it was zombies, uh,
Nick: almost kind of like giddy in a way, like you obviously like going in,
you know, that it's as obvious, but you're just like, oh yeah, let's go
Trey: crazy.
You know, did you know going in that it was going to be zombies?
Yeah.
Well the title.
Nick: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So what if his arm he's like, yeah, I kind of thought, okay,
this is going to be zombies.
And then you, you know, you get enough of it to be like, oh,
dang, like something's totally
Jude: different.
So, well, and on that with the familiar and something new, this, this
is the first time I think I've seen outside of like a YouTube edit, right?
Uh, the blending of the end of ant, man.
Within his proper place in the timeline and infinity war.
Um, and so that's, that's something I really enjoyed and thought it
was really clever of how they got the zombies there rather than, um,
or in terms of the explanation.
Right.
Rather than just kind of dropping in there without any explanation.
Right.
I always love
Nick: a good zombie apocalypse explanation.
Like how did this happen?
Was it moon beams from Mars and radiation?
Or was it really angry?
Uh, monkeys or whatever, you know, like, I love hearing how they're
explaining what happened with the
Trey: zombies, you know?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
It's, it's an organic wrap up into, I feel like I'm gonna be saying this a lot
through the episode, but that blending of the two, two genres, speaking of
this scene where, uh, the revelation for banner it being that they're the undead.
As soon as I saw that scene, I flash back to a conversation that I had
with our friend, Rob Logan, uh, when I was hanging out in one of his
Twitch streams, He's made it known.
He's not a fan of this episode specifically, cause he's not
a fan of zombies in general.
And when we were talking, I remember saying like, yeah, I like zombies.
Well enough, but there's something about making our superheroes zombies that
I just feel really ambivalent about.
Like I just I'm sure I was going to enjoy it, but it was just
not something that I was looking forward to within five minutes.
This episode helped me articulate why, and then prove to me why it works.
And that was seeing a zombified Tony still using his super powers.
Dr.
Strange, still using a super powers that feels like a unique spin on the zombie
genre that I was not expecting at all.
And so immediately in that little sequence, I went from kind of like,
okay, this doesn't make sense to like, all right, I'm in, I'm strapped
in and I'm ready for this ride.
Jude: Well, and that's another thing where I don't think this works.
If you try to do it.
You know, just the, the using of the powers, um, which again, you
can get a lot, you can get away with a lot more with it made it
Trey: like that, surviving the zombie apocalypse video that
Peter Parker made for everybody.
Yeah.
What'd you think of that?
Nick: So funny, it definitely kind of brought me back to zombie
Trey: land.
Yeah.
That's a very, it's a mix of zombie land.
And I don't know if you've seen this movie, but Mitchell's versus the machines.
I think it was a Netflix movie where it had a very similar, I don't want
to say style because the style is a lot closer to, into the spider
verse, but it's that same feeling of like a younger person expressing
themselves through media that way.
And it was such a nice spin on Peter Parker because we know he already
has an affinity for it based off the things that he recorded at the
beginning of Spider-Man homecoming.
Right.
Jude: I think this might be one of the first times Trey you've said you've
watched something and I haven't seen it.
Trey: That's our way.
Nick: Jude, you got to grab the, grab the girls and like go watch that movie.
Like as soon as you can.
It's so
Trey: good.
Bring a box of tissues though.
It's a tear jerker.
Okay.
I'll be right back.
Okay.
Nick: And we're back
Trey: and
Nick: a tree, you know, that, that was done by the same team that
did into the spider verse, right?
Yeah.
Trey: Same animation team, right?
Not the same directors
Nick: or right.
I don't think it's the same directors, but yeah.
Same animation team
Trey: for sure.
Yeah.
That's a really, really good movie.
We'll make sure to link to it in the show notes for a trailer.
If it, it kind of flew under the radar.
I think it was one of those movies that got caught in the shuffle of the pandemic
and it didn't get the second marketing surge and it just kind of landed on
Netflix, but it's so worth the watch.
Jude: I just looked it up by MTV.
Uh,
Nick: it's the best family movie I've
Jude: seen in years.
I'll I'll watch it.
I will watch it Trey.
Wow.
Okay.
That's also a big statement though, to say it's the best family movie
you've seen in years, just because, you know, I mean, there's been
a lot of stuff that's come out.
Yeah.
Like in game.
Wait, is that not family?
Is that
Nick: I wrote, I was watching, uh, uh, infinity or my son brings it in and I
was, I had to prep him for like the end.
I was just like, okay, this is what's coming.
I just, this is a movie we're going to get there.
It's okay.
It's
Trey: okay.
How did he take it
Nick: at first?
There was definitely, even though we talked about it, like, especially like
when Peter goes down, he's just like.
Did he, he loves, he just he's really obsessed with death.
Cause he's like four or five year old.
He's like, did they die?
Did they die?
If he didn't just die?
And I'm just like, I can't tell you, we're going to have to keep watching.
But like, it's just like, oh my gosh, you know, like what's
Trey: going on not to keep sidetracking here, but I have to say this dude was
mentioning in the discord that he was going through the movies with your oldest.
Right.
I tried to let's put it that way.
And so when we're in the discord, we were, we were all just pitching
different runs that he could do.
And I still stand by this.
You should do the strongest we'll run where you show them
infinity war and make them wait a year until they get to watch it.
And this is a good reason why I'm not a parent,
Jude: not, not only are we doing release order, we're doing the weight as well.
So it's going to take iron man to end game.
Trey: You got to appreciate it.
Like I did
Jude: imagine if I did that with star wars.
Oh, whoa.
Gosh.
Trey: Well, you know what I'm getting back to the episode.
Uh, I do wanna mention, uh, I really enjoyed the pairing of Kurt and Peter.
Uh, it started in that video, but they really had a nice dynamic in
the episode, that little montage of like surviving the apocalypse
that Peter made was just so good.
Especially seeing how disgruntled happy was like, I need more
of Peter and happy in the MCU
Jude: December.
Um, you know what, I, I really liked the emphasis on hope van Dyne.
I really liked her having a big central role.
Yeah.
Trey: Like I think both times that the Avengers have been front and center in
this series was the Nick fury episode in this one in the Nick fury episode,
we saw Hank as Atman get really involved in the happenings of that episode.
And then with this one, we see hope van Dyne and I think it's a nice.
I dunno if it's homage, but like a callback to, from my understanding
both ant man and the wasp being very fundamental to the Avengers.
So even though that's not how it played out in the prime timeline, it's nice to
get to see them much more ingrained here.
Oh
Jude: yeah.
Cause they were original Avengers.
Well,
Nick: but yeah, it was nice to see, um, Sebastian, Stan and get another
run at, uh, his voice acting career.
Trey: Did it improve for you in this one?
Nick: I think he did considerably better.
I don't know if maybe he heard the first one and he was like,
oh, I can do that better, but,
Jude: well, I, I wonder, cause I agree with you.
He did so much better.
Do you think he changed his approach?
May Stein, John rhe, like zombie apocalypse.
I'm winter soldier here.
It's 1940s on Bucky.
Trey: Oh, I think that's a really good point.
That's a really good point because when we meet up with him in the first
episode, he hasn't gone through the torture that he did in the movie.
So yeah, I think you're onto something there.
And,
Jude: and I didn't think about that at the time of watching the first
episode I was with you, the first episode of like, eh, this isn't good.
So is she with you robot, robot robot for, yes.
Oh, that's my
Trey: best impression.
You almost rip my arm off.
Like it was so stiff.
Nick: Oh man.
And then, oh, wait is now I'm scared that she's not in this.
Yeah, she's in the beginning, Sharon.
Yeah.
Yeah, great to see Sharon back.
Great.
Uh, you know, it hasn't been that long, but good to see her fighting
for the good, good guys again.
Jude: Well, I was about to say, like, I didn't even think I didn't,
I didn't see Sharon Carter in once think, oh, the power broker or like
change my opinion of her, you know?
And I don't know if that shows that Falcon to winter soldier didn't
have, or Sharon Carter from Falcon or winter soldier didn't have a lasting
impact or, you know, or if I was just kind of sucked into this episode.
But again, I mean, if you think about it, it was very female.
I mean, for having.
You know, we start with homework and all that and stuff.
It was very female centered as far as leading the group, which was, you
know, and the inside characters in the main movies, getting an upfront,
Trey: you know, speaking to the Sharon Carter aspect of this, it
makes me wonder what her relationship to the Avengers is in this timeline.
Because after Falcon in the winter soldier, we know that she was
severely spurned by them because she was kind of left out to dry
after the events of civil war.
And this, we get that montage where it's like the watcher says the irony
is that the Avengers showing up is what sealed the fate of humanity.
The Avengers were working together.
They didn't look like they were disbanded quite like they were
at the beginning of infinity war.
So I wonder what it means for the trajectory of Sharon Carter, that she
is there at the end of the world with them, given that there is no fallout.
Yeah,
Jude: I didn't think about that.
Well, okay.
So aside from, Hm, Hulk, that's another thing aside from HOLC
the only ones that were zombies were dusted or were not dusted.
No.
Nick: Dr.
Strange was
Jude: the, yeah.
Okay.
Dr.
Strange was dusted and Falcon, Falcon and hope.
No, I'm saying the only ones that were zombies.
Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
Hawkeye wasn't dusted.
No, no, that's right.
And he was his zombie.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
But yeah, like, like the ones that were zombies was the, the group and
infinity war that did not get dusted.
Trey: It's almost like we're getting to see a, what if it was a flip of
the event of infinity war, even though it wasn't the same catalyst, but that
same feeling of what would happen if this was the team that was left
Jude: Dover.
Yeah.
And cause I think, I think Hawk is the only one that didn't
get dusted or that got, yeah.
That didn't get dusted and wasn't a zombie right away.
Trey: Yeah.
That's a really nice answer.
Jude: Hmm.
Yeah.
Nick, Sandy.
Oh, wait, my truck
Nick: really just
Trey: dropped my mic real quick.
Well, I think I have two more points that I want to bring up
before we move into the next act.
So I'll kind of go through them quickly.
The first one, you know, I talked again about the blending of the genres.
Another moment that I really liked is that scene in the train station where
it's the familiar trope of they get to this place, they found a way out, but they
have to work together to get it running.
It was really cool to watch as hope was shrinking down and going
into the engine of the train to try and see what was going on.
Uh, meanwhile, Peter Parker has used his webs to try and create like, um,
a slingshotting effect of the train.
And as he's doing that, you see the zombies in the background
getting closer to them.
So it's these fantastical stuff that's blended with that horror element as well.
And that works surprisingly well
Jude: for me.
Yeah.
Like I don't know how y'all felt, but I thought, uh, and just, again, this
just shows the, how well they did with the genre is I thought Peter was.
Yeah.
Like I thought he was a garner there, you know, and that's, that's just
them, the ed, the sequencing, the directing, all of that right there.
They was just done so well.
Nick: Do you think it will, was, uh, an homage to Spiderman to him
stopping the train with his spider webs to him starting the training with
the
Jude: spider webs kind of do that's great.
Yeah, I kind of do.
I think you're right.
Nick: That was the last time I saw him do anything with the train.
I feel like he was doing the exact same thing
Trey: in reverse.
You know, that scene is iconic in not only Spiderman films, but superhero films.
So you put Spiderman with a train, like you have to be
doing some sort of callback to
Jude: it.
Yeah, I do think you're right on that.
Neat.
Trey: Well, the last point that I want to bring up and I'm honestly
surprised it took this long to get it.
I can't get enough of happy Hogan.
John Fabro is just, he feels like the perfect foil for the
fantastical nature of the Avengers, because I texted you this dude.
I was so excited to share this with you.
I made this realization about happy Hogan last night.
He is John McClain in a universe of Avengers, except it's not as impressive
because everybody else has a superhero, but he is that like ordinary hero
who is constantly upstaged by them.
Jude: Oh, that's so funny.
Now I'm just, I'm just imagining a one-shot of happy Hogan, like trying
to say save the Nakatomi tower.
Right?
Trey: Join the west coast.
Avengers have a few.
Laughs.
Oh dude.
I w I didn't know how much I wanted that until just now,
Jude: but
Trey: yeah.
Happy Hogan.
I, I I've been awarding in VPs of the episode.
The last couple of weeks he came close.
I think he has my heart in this episode, but, um, I'll save the MVP award for
somebody later on in the episode, but he was so good and it's nice
Nick: to see, like, I, you know, obviously I've never met John Fabro.
Um, you know, he'll, he'll, he'll come on the pod someday, right?
Oh yeah.
I hope so.
Yeah.
Trey: John Fabro, this is an open invitation if you'd never liked to join.
Okay.
Continue.
But
Nick: just to see him like write this character that you know, is occasionally
bumbling, occasionally heroic.
Um, and occasionally, uh, often, uh, upstaged by the other superheroes,
it's fun to see him be able to like, kind of poke fun at himself and like
put them in this character as just kind of occasionally a goober, you
know, and, um, just play it so well.
And so straight, you know what I mean?
Jude: What was the line about the chauffeur.
Nick: I love the taxi driver.
Trey: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I actually wrote it down.
Yeah, it said, uh, I'm not an Uber driver.
I'm a personal chauffer.
There's a difference
spoken like a true forehead of security.
Anyway, I think that's going to wrap up act one, which will
bring us into the second act.
This one's going to take us from the moment of their escape when they are
in transit to camp Lehigh all the way until the twist of visions doings.
So, uh, starting with you, Jude, where would you like to start?
I
Jude: liked that we got to see.
A face-off between, uh, Bucky and cap.
I don't know why I just felt, and, and that was in the promotional trailer.
Like he knew it was coming.
Uh, but if for some reason it was just a really satisfying moment.
Nick: Yeah.
Like I thought everything from his introduction, uh, from, you know, cap's
introduction when he lands on the top of the train, like, cause you know,
even though it wasn't the material, like when, you know, when you hear him
come, I'm like, oh wait, who is this?
Like, who is, who is, who is going to be, he was going to be, and then
to have a ViCAP was just like, oh snap, like, we're like, we're here.
Like we're going for it.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, cause I mean, you deal with it in a couple of different way.
Like the stereotypical of the zombie genre, right.
Someone's faced with a loved one, but it's a zombie.
Right.
And it's like, so you.
Kill the zombie, but it's their loved one.
And, and, uh, and then later we get the other stereotype, the other trope,
not stereotype, the other trope of like, oh, someone is his bit and
they're going to turn, what do you do?
You know?
And so the episode covered all that.
But to see that, that moment between the two of them was really good.
And also, I mean, putting it in that context, like he was
very winter soldier about it.
He didn't seem conflicted.
Right.
Trey: And you went right down to business, like caught that shield and threw it
like you had no issue, but you're right.
And, and I think, you know, the first thing that I honestly thought of is you've
been kind of keeping me in check because I think the last time we saw the shield Wiz
in episode three, with Nick fury and you brought it up, it's like, oh, it's kind
of like what you were saying last week.
Where are we seeing the shield too much?
And I didn't bring it up then, but I didn't.
Feel the same way I felt about it being in the collectors, uh, collection.
And I didn't really have a reason to articulate why then seeing this episode
where the kind of zombie cap and Bucky face-off, it was because the shield in
the context of like a fallen hero made more sense to the weight than it just
being a prop on somebody's collection.
That plays into what you were saying about that trope of seeing a friend
who's been bitten and having to do what that ramifications Bucky and
Steve are shortcuts for those emotional story beats that they just played so
well within that truck together right
Nick: now, Trey, when you say enough to like carry the weight, do you think
you would be enough to carry the weight of like a truck falling off of a cliff?
Maybe
Jude: I'm just, I'm just wondering, I think their relationship strong,
but it might not be that strong.
Trey: Where, where do I get my money back on this mediator?
Jude: Oh man.
Trey: Oh
Jude: man.
Trey: I don't know where to go.
Let's
Nick: talk about Sharon in this stack too.
Yeah, because I love that they took the beat from all the memes about Ant-Man
and Thanos and they kind of, they kind of played it up a little bit in this one.
They did it.
Trey: Would've worked.
So this may get cut, but I have to at least tell you, Nick, there is
a in tag that we had to get rid of because we didn't want to bring it up.
You navigated that very gracefully.
And for the people who know what we're talking about, But I see your point.
Look, even Josh Brolin himself acknowledged the theory.
So yeah.
Jude: Well, I would say my friend, Ken did text me saying ant man
is the most dangerous hero.
Trey: I guess we should all be so fortunate that Scott
Lang has a heart of gold
Jude: check, check, check the socials to get the rest of it.
Trey: I'm excited.
You just gave me a green light and I'm going to take that.
Well, you know, getting back to the episode, uh, one thing I
run into zone in on is I talked about the emotional shortcut.
You can take with the established relationship of both Steve and
Bucky when they had their moment.
Another one that really worked for me.
Whenever is giving his speech about the, you know, staying
upbeat and holding onto hope.
And it made me realize that it's amazing how many emotional shortcuts you can
take with Peter, because his story is so ingrained with the general population
that you could just hammer home that stuff, because I'm not going to lie.
I was tearing up during that scene.
Uh, it could be because I am a sucker for stories about holding onto hope,
but I thought it was done really well.
Yeah.
Nick: It's a, it's a good point.
You're making, especially about like Peter Parker being such a well-known like
character with his, with his backstory.
It's almost like, you know, you could say the same thing with like Batman,
even though he would probably never give a speech, you know, uh, emotionally
pulling, but, um, You know, it's, it's those shortcuts that you can't take.
And that's a, that's a good observation, I think.
And even you can kind of drop in different characters.
And like you were saying earlier, these two characters who would have
barely any, I don't even know if they ever meet face to face maybe.
And that scene at end game when Peter has the infinity gauntlet, but like, um, you
know, to have those do characters that are so far away removed come together
and have this really, really, really special moment, um, as, yeah, that's
Trey: cool.
Well, cause he even mentions like Mr.
Stark, which we have that, which is it's, it's the most recent one, so
that, that tracks, but we have that emotional connection from the movies.
Uh, he mentioned uncle Ben as well.
And that's something that's not been established in the MCU.
It's just kind of been taken for granted, I guess, or understood on a conscious
subconscious level for the audience.
So having that moment here, where he groups it in with Mr.
Stark, it was just like, wow.
Like it made me pause and realize how much Peter has lost.
Jude: Well, and I'm glad they went that way.
Right.
With the, with the story.
Um, I mean, cause an alternative would have been, I dunno, I mean, I guess
you could have had winter soldier like shoot her in the head and Trey
would have thought it's over the top.
But um, so taking
Trey: punches left and right
Jude: in fairness, I know you weren't the only one that thought it was over the top.
Right.
Uh, but no you're right.
It was, it is a wonderful moment.
I think that, um, well, I mean again, I go back to there.
It was good to see hope, get that much of a.
Right.
And be a team leader.
And it really sub that, that scene and her making the sacrifice play
was, I think one of my favorite parts of the episode, did any, did you
Nick: guys tear up when she said smile for me theater?
Trey: Yeah.
What a deceivingly emotional episode, right?
Jude: Yeah.
I will be honest because it's the zombie genre and I know we're getting, you know,
we have our different segments as she went, as she was getting overwhelmed.
And which of the ground?
Well, one of my first thoughts was.
Oh, she gonna like off herself, like, so she doesn't turn into a zombie and
it's like, are they going to go there?
That was my first thought.
And then when she went to the ground, I thought, oh no, she's still
like, so like, cause like, like I, I, you could just see it coming.
Trey: That's a big red flag, right?
No, I thought that was so cool too.
The, the, again, the ed design B story, they're stuck in an unfamiliar situation.
They don't know how to get out.
I love that the solution was, Hey, why not?
Let hope go big and just carry them across the hoard like that.
You know, that's something that feels unique and not a usual
solution for stories like these.
So that was another one of those twists that just was really fun to
watch unfold, which speaking of.
Nick.
How did you feel about that vision reveal?
Honestly,
Nick: it was like the last thing I was expecting, you know, like, uh, I just,
it only showed up in like, oh, oh.
But like as soon as he popped up, I was, I think I kind of felt like,
uh, uh, Bruce, you know, I just want to kind of give him a hug way to go.
Of course.
Like I haven't seen you since you died.
So let me give you a hug, bro.
Like
Trey: yeah.
Visions inclusion to this is one of those duh, like, it just makes
sense w after it's laid out, but it's so well-placed that, I just didn't
think about it until it happened
Jude: too.
Huh?
Do we know when they, when they wrote these and I'm just
wondering, I'm just curious.
Cause we had Wanda vision where Wanda is bringing vision back.
Right.
And in this we have the.
So to speak.
And so I'm just curious if, if that was intentional off of what
wine division was, you know,
Nick: also like, you know, if we're undoing civil war, we're undoing infinity
war, we're talking that they've had, oh, this is kind of gets into act
Trey: three.
That's fine.
Go ahead.
It doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Jude: I, I kind of started tiptoeing into that anyway, so,
Nick: well, they had way more time to get there probably, uh, Wanda envision.
Cause they, they weren't, they weren't split up.
They didn't have to hobby in secret.
They've probably had like a full on relationship up until.
Yeah,
Trey: that's really good to note, you know, it sounds like we're
tiptoeing into the last act.
So I'm going to say two quick things.
We can get fully transitioned to there.
The first thing I teased that I had a NVP of this episode.
Oh yeah.
Scott Lang Scott Lang easily.
The NVP of this episode, both in voice and character.
I've been thinking about it a lot.
Like, uh, we'll get to it eventually, but Jude, you texted me a friend that had
some issues with the tone of the episode.
You know, everything is moving at such a breakneck speed that sometimes
some of the sentimental moments feel goofier than they should.
But I think Scott's humor is what bridged the gap of the episodes tone.
Like he was able to play in those silly spaces as well as some of
those harder hitting spaces as well.
So he was a fantastic addition to the cast of this.
Jude: Yeah.
I it's interesting friend Daniel mentioned to us that this was a future
Rama reference and I know he loved it.
What I'm really curious about is did they let Paul Rudd just improvise
some of his lines in those jokes?
Because he's funny.
To
Trey: do it.
He's too charming.
Like it's unfair that one person can be that charismatic.
Nick: I, uh, I often have this conversation with my wife about how
charming Paula red is and how I've made her kind of a fan of him as well.
And she's always just like, what do you want to be as a boyfriend?
I'm like, maybe he's very charming, you know?
And, and he does, he does so well of carrying those beats between the
emotional plays and like being so funny.
And you see that in his movies that he's done, like in the appetite universe and
then even in a end game, I think about when he sees, um, his daughter, you know,
like that moment is so he plays that so well, As a, as a father and just like,
as a father, myself, like that way, he looks at her and like, even that line,
like, you're so big is a funny line, but it's also like such an emotional,
like gut punch to have lost five years with your daughter and like to all of
us and see her and like recognize her and know a thousand percent that's
your daughter, but like, you're so big.
You're like,
Trey: Ugh.
And it's in his eyes too.
You can feel that pain and happiness just in the look that he's giving his daughter.
He's incredible that I feel like we're pivoting to like Scott me to Paul
Rogers as being an amazing person.
But yeah, I know,
Jude: right.
Like, like I started thinking, wow, I need to go rewatch clueless.
Yeah.
So good.
It is.
I'm not kidding.
Like, it's fantastic.
Nick: So good.
Such a great actor, but yeah, I mean, Trey, absolutely.
Like he, he does, he offers just that, that comedic timing in there
and, and I'm sure that there are.
Hours worth of alts that he probably took on those lines where they're
just like, uh, you know, they gave him like, here's the line you say it this
way, do it three times once we get it.
And then he just probably went off on like tangents.
Trey: Oh, what I would have give for Hank to chew me out one more time.
Ah, there, I did it again.
That has to be improvised.
Well, I got one more point to make and this'll transition as well into act three.
It's it's in the moments where Bucky ventures off and
discovers Wanda on his own.
And right before he does that vision gives a line where he's like Sergeant Barnes,
you won't find what you're looking for.
And there's kind of like this hesitation to his voice, this paired with some
things that happens in the next act.
I think this is where the episode felt the weakest for me.
Like I really, really enjoyed this episode, but as much as I've been
praising, some of the ways they've been blending, the genres of
superheroes and zombies, this one was the one that I think felt the most.
Paint by the numbers where you know, that half-hearted attempt to stop Bucky.
Uh, the ominously whispering you've awakened her.
Like all these moments felt like actions dictated by trope rather than
choices made by authentic characters.
And so that's where I really spelt this, the speed of this episode picking up,
but I was already so bought in that it didn't detract that much, but it's
something I wanted to highlight it since I was praising some of the other stuff.
So highly,
Jude: well, I think you have a good point, but I do like that they took
this opportunity to show a Scarlet witch using powers without the, I
don't know what to call it, like the zombified Scarlet, which, so you have
those powers, but you don't have.
Humanity that that's guiding it in a particular way, if that makes sense.
Oh yeah.
Trey: Yeah.
And with that out, let's go ahead and transition to act three, which actor is
going to take us from that moment where Wanda is activated into the action of
the story all the way through the end.
And since it's, it's starting with me this time, Jude to play off of
that, she is one of, if not the most powerful character in the MCU, having
that inhibitions just taken away.
And it's just pure attack mode from Wanda.
Like I'm trying to find a way to articulate what you're
saying as well about that.
You, you just have pure, it's not rage, but just completely,
always on the offensive.
It's a horrifying thought because there are no restrictions for her.
And it's it ramps up the fear I had for a protagonist, like two 11.
Why do you
Nick: think visually, let lucky go.
Trey: Yeah.
See, that's what I was getting at.
Like, I didn't quite, it didn't feel like anything that was
motivated by character choice.
It just felt like, okay, we need this to be revealed.
So he let them go.
But Nick you're right.
Like what he knew, what he'd find, why didn't he put up a fight?
Nick: Do you think he was like guilty?
Or do you think he just needed to get them separated or like, or was
it, do you think it was just like, we need to move the story forward?
Jude: Um, you know what?
I, honestly, I think it, and it felt like we needed to move the story
forward, um, which is unfortunate because I think they had a better out,
uh, you, they could have had vision, try to stall Bucky and coy a could
have had some kind of Wakanda and tech.
Beep go off because the child is in the area and then she takes off
running for looking for challah.
And so even a vision said, wait, she's not gonna listen.
And that gets you a character going out and coming across Scarlet, witch,
and vision, you know, trying to prevent that or prevent them from finding out.
Do you think
Nick: he was trying to feed him to her?
Like, cause he said like she hasn't eaten in days.
Like, do you think he was like, you're not going to find what you're looking
for, but you're probably gonna die.
Like he was like trying to like,
Jude: you know what it's possible?
Like, like maybe it could be, that's why he let him go as
well thinking like she needs to
Trey: eat.
So th this is what cause to answer your question, Nick.
I mean, I think I made it clear where I fall and it just being
dictated by needing to move forward.
I really enjoy the way you framed it as a possible meeting them halfway where
vision might be feeling a little guilty.
You know, he has that scene where he eventually gives himself up
and takes the mind stone out so that they can move forward, but
he can't live with what he's done.
So the, I think there is some truth to that feeling guilty
and wanting to be caught.
And that's why he let Bucky go.
So if I can meet the episode halfway, I like your point a lot there.
It
Nick: helps me just kind of like, you know, like, excuse maybe what could
have been, you know, for like yeah.
Maybe visions, like feeling
Jude: a little guilty.
Yeah.
But I do find that interesting because in the moment for me
watching it, I didn't know.
It didn't take me out of it.
And I think it just goes back to the stuff that me, or, you know, people are
willing to let go and animated shows.
Trey: I think there's a lot of suspension of disbelief that
this episode asks of us, which
Jude: is okay.
And I'm willing to give that on, on, on these, you know,
there's, I don't know what it is.
There's something about animated cartoons that, that we let more go
than we do with live action things.
When we know it's clearly
Trey: fictional.
You know, another thing that I wanted to zone in on is as the story progresses
and we see our heroes one by one, we picked off, uh, from Wanda attacking.
There's a moment where Bruce goes into the fray and he almost gets bitten, but
the whole transforms and it saves him.
And so that was the moment where he learns like, okay, all right, I
can, I can get through it this way.
And he goes, charging headfirst in is eventually overrun by zombies.
And he has that moment where he transforms fully and starts taking them out.
This episode gave us that celebratory Hulk moment that we should have gotten in
either of the last two Avengers movies.
And I'm so glad we got it here.
Nick: Also made me think of, uh, in Ragnarok where he
jumps out of the helicopter.
Yes.
And like falls onto the bridge.
And we also know that like, you know, when he tried to shoot
himself in the mouth, like he's like the big guy spit the bullet out.
Is it can Bruce banner not die?
Like cause when he fell out of that, um, out of the helicopter or the
spaceship, like he probably would have broken some bones of that fall.
Like when he transforms, it transforms in a Hawk to think he just like
heals all of his manly wounds too.
Like, I don't know.
Cause like when he fell, like he fell and plopped onto the
bridge and then then transformed.
Yeah.
Jude: Hmm.
That's a good question.
I'm not sure on that.
It's like a healing factor, but I don't know if he
officially has a healing factor.
Trey: Yeah.
I guess not
Jude: now getting into the minutia of comics.
So like if, if Bruce banner turns into a zombie, does hope turn into a zombie
Trey: based on the Funko pops I've seen.
Yes,
no, you know, it reminds me of, and I'm going to.
But there was a quote about Stanley where I think somebody had written into about
like, Hey, in this fight, who would win.
And he mentioned whoever the writers wanted to win.
Like, it's just like, it's the story.
It dictates whoever, like whoever wins is the person that the story is
making the most impactful moment about.
So not, not to like completely put out the fun of trying to speculate, but I think
it's just different runs take different stabs of how that stuff plays out.
Nick: Yeah.
I think that's that's yeah.
I mean, we're, we're, we're talking about a zombie episode here.
Like we can suspend the disbelief just like Judy said, you know?
Yeah.
Jude: Well, but I mean, if you think about the zombie genre and the number
of characters that died along the way, um, and me thinking about watching the
walking dead, which I only got a certain number of seasons, there was more main
characters killed in this one episode.
Then what walking dead did over a couple of seasons.
They definitely were not shy.
I mean, by the end, that was what, by the end, it was, you
know, at man's head Peter and
Nick: who was the other one at the
Jude: challah?
Black Panther to challah missing a leg.
Yeah.
Like, like that's the only three left, you know, vision wasn't there.
Oh my God.
What a way to do it?
The thinnest way to himself.
Yeah.
Trey: And either they sampled his scream from infinity war, or he's
incredible to be able to do that again in the recording booth.
Nick: Nick, I wonder why I was, I wonder if, um, oh gosh, the name just left me.
Paul Bettany, uh, having done so much voice work as Jarvis before previously
was really like, uh, So good at doing just like voice work that he
was able to just really harness it.
Cause I thought he did a great job, um, with his character.
Um, you know, having done that for however many years, just as a voice
to come in and now just like kind of nailed the voice takes like, you know,
I wonder if he was just good enough to pull that out again, you know,
Jude: I imagine
Trey: so Nick, I'm glad you brought that up for two reasons.
The first reason I totally forgot Paul Brittany's name as well.
So you just jogged my memory and then too, that's a really good point because
like I'm throughout the entirety of this series, I am keeping it in the back of
my head of like, okay, who has the most experience of contributing a, a voice to
a non-physical presence and you're right.
He, he had a lot of experience with Jarvis and I'm almost
positive that has to translate.
I think
Jude: across the board though, this was a really good or our voice acted very well.
Yeah.
Trey: You know, I want to circle back to a point you were making Jude about
by the end of the episode, we're left with only three of our survivors.
I gotta be honest.
I didn't have a lot of notes in this episode or this act I should say.
And part of it was, I wrote this cliff hangers and my one-off like, what is this?
Like, we had Bucky being sent, flying off.
We had hope versus Wanda.
And then we had them arriving at Macondo with dominoes.
And it left me wondering of like, are we ever going to return to this or do we
read it as the people who were isolated, like Bucky or hope, or they just gunners
and Peter to challah and Scott, our last three remaining fighters by the end?
I think so.
You don't think we'll ever see a return to this?
I
Jude: really don't.
I mean, unless that's what season two turns into picking
up where all these left.
Trey: What about you,
Nick: Nick?
What do you guys, so I was going to save this for stray thoughts, but, um, do you
guys like the zombie genre of movies?
Trey: Yes.
Well, I don't think I quite have zombie fatigue, but I am at the point where I've
seen so many zombie stories that it has to be really well done for me to be invested.
So I don't hate it, but I'm a lot more pickier than I used to be.
So
Jude: my experience of zombies was in Vegas
Trey: is going to be
sorry.
Jude: Oh my gosh.
Um, my experience with zombie John rhe is kind of limited actually.
Like I remember wanting to see this in the theater and my dad brought
me and it was the remake of night.
And, and remake might not even be accurate.
Cause I think they did it kind of shot for shot, but just in color,
you know, uh, unlike the black, the original black and white.
So I saw that in the theater.
Um, I remember seeing the movie, the serpent and the rainbow, which was a
1988 movie, but the zombies in this was much more the, the voodoo type zombie.
It's not the zombie genre.
Most people are familiar with.
I watched walking dead.
I love Shaun of the dead and I saw world war Z, but never read the book.
So I didn't have issues.
Well, I wouldn't say I didn't have issues.
Didn't have issues with the movie.
I didn't have the same issues with the movie as, uh, people that read the book.
Other than that, like I typically horror movie wise prefer.
The culture, Geist, ghost demonic, kinda.
You don't see them, the conjuring type stuff.
Um, if that makes sense.
So, you know, and then, and then my wife, as much as like she grew up on horror
movies, uh, cause her mom loves him.
Just doesn't like this zombies is the one thing that scares her.
And it's so weird.
Zombies is the one thing that scares her.
So she doesn't really want to watch it.
And my fifth grader who gets freaked out.
When my oldest is watching criminal minds, doesn't get
bothered one bit at all by zombies.
She's like, yeah, whatever.
Like, so yeah.
Um, I have a weird relationship with zombies.
Well,
Nick: you know, one of the things that I think is kind of a trope of these zombie
movies is that last sting, you know, that lasts like the heroes have made it this
far, you kind of left with this hope at the end that were like, you know, a bunch
of people, a bunch of the, you know, the ragtag crew has passed sacrificing
themselves, all these kind of tropes that we've talked about through the episode
and they get to the end credits roll.
And then all of a sudden you're watching a found footage of them running away.
They finally getting to the island, like I'm thinking, uh, uh, Zack
Snyder's Dawn of the dead, you know, they finally make it away off the boat.
Uh, there's been a huge, uh, and then, uh, there's the found footage
where there's zombies on the island, you know, it's like, oh, okay.
So, and I kind of, I like that when in a, in a lot of zombie movies, I
feel like when we're dealing with zombie apocalypse, a lot of the time.
It's like, you see this little chapter, but the apocalypse of the zombies still
happened and like everyone's still died.
And I kind of like that, that I feel like that is a trip of zombie movies.
And so for them to kind of do that as far as like, you think we're all good.
And then at the end, here's the little stinger, like, Nope, it's, it's still
the apocalypse and it's still messed up.
And now not only is these army apocalypse, but they notice is there.
And so I don't necessarily think we're going to see it in season two.
I think it's, I thought I personally thought of it as like, this is another
homage to the genre of like, Ha you had all this hope, but like it's still the
apocalypse, there's still zombies and it's still over, you know what I mean?
Trey: I do like that.
They kind of leave it up to interpretation because it does play into that space
of, of, Hey, here, you thought the day was saved, but here's the dread
that persists because that is the embodiment of what zombies are.
They are this never ending force that does not tire and never wanes and is
always taking presence in your mind.
And so it doesn't capsulate that, but the message that they're also spreading
is the hope that remains within that brutal beating of that feeling.
So, yeah, like it it's, I guess that's me choosing to read it that way,
because I can't go to back to back hopeless episodes after, after Dr.
Strange being in trapped for eternity to realize this mistake.
Like, I think, I don't know.
I want to envision that.
Sir plant banjos and are able to save the day
Jude: again.
Um, new type Nova on Instagram actually reached out to us and asked
how did they to claim all the stones and still be zombified, zombified?
Um, how did he get the time stone?
Which, I mean, part of me wants to, I, I just, okay.
It's cartoon.
I'm going to let it go.
Um, but it's, what if there actually probably was a way that he got him,
you know, probably, you know, a mix of like, well, the Avengers did, you
know, die off and become zombies.
Um, but it does add to that dread that not just as Stan hosts it,
you know, and he has all the stones and just capable of using them.
Uh, but, but I didn't think that was interesting question.
How did he get the stones?
Um, you know, and.
I don't know, part of me kind of wants to see that, like, that, that journey,
you know, he's right there about to snap and then it gets a bit, so he can't,
Nick: uh, well timeline wise because this, uh, the zombie
apocalypse takes place right.
At roughly around the exact same time or right before the snap happens.
So in theory, he could have already had most of the stones
right before he got zombified.
Trey: Right.
Yeah.
So that was, that was part of the question of like, how did it happen?
And I.
From my understanding, cause you're right, this does take place and kind
of that infinity war, uh, timeframe, I assume everything space side happened.
Like it happened in the movie except probably easier for Thanos to get
the reality stone and the space stone because Tony and Steven and
Peter Parker were not there to help the guardians fend off on a Titan.
And we saw how Dan has already steamrolled them on nowhere.
So I'm pretty sure he gets all the stones he got prior to earth fairly easily.
Uh, the time stone I'm assuming was still in the eye of Agamotto and we know
that strange is already taken care of.
So I assumed that one was pretty easy as well, which I think
just leaves the mind stone.
Nick: Uh, so my last kind of thought about act three was the, I, you know,
I, I took as many notes as I can, but the one that got circled like
90 times was, did you guys hear the
Trey: millennium Falcon?
No.
Well, wait, are you serious?
Nick: Yeah.
Jus did you hear the money
Jude: in Falcon?
I missed that
Nick: when, when the get on the ship to leave, um, there's the, the, I don't know
if they're turning it on it's when to cellos, like, can you drive this thing?
And he's like, I think so they started on, and it does the millennium Falcon.
I'm not going to go to hyper-drive wine, but
, Jude: I'll go back and check that out again.
I completely missed that.
Trey: That's an amazing catch and impression, but that's,
I,
Nick: I was just listening and they're like the money Falcon noise.
That's amazing.
And like wrote it down in my notes and
Jude: circled it.
Oh, wow.
Definitely going to go catch that again.
I
Trey: imagine I imagine you like the Leonardo DiCaprio meme,
just pointing at the screen.
Yeah,
Nick: totally.
And I, I almost like Jude, uh, I was texted you.
Um, but I was like, I need to save it for the pod because of course they heard it.
And of course we're all gonna laugh about
Jude: it.
Oh no, I'm going to have to go find it.
Trey: Yeah.
Um, I'm so glad you joined us.
That would have been completely lost on us.
Nick: I would have, I would have, uh, messaged you listening to the pod.
Trey: See, this is how we know you're a three timer at this point.
You you've fallen into that feeling of like, I want to talk to my friends,
but I have to wait until it's recorded.
Well, yeah, that's really cool, man.
Thanks for bringing that
Nick: up.
Yeah, definitely go back and listen for it.
It's there.
It's a right.
Yeah.
Right there at the end where they were turning on the ship.
Trey: Well, I think that's going to wrap it up for act three, which means all
we've got left is our stray thoughts.
So, uh, starting with you, Nick, do you have any stray thoughts for this episode?
Nick: I'm just really excited to kind of see what's next.
Um, you know, this, you know, like we've talked about pretty much all this time,
this really did kind of reset the bar for the way they're telling the stories and
how they're kind of letting the stories stay into their own and not, you know,
having to rehash, um, you know, like what happened before or anything like that.
They're really just kind of dropping us in.
So I'm really excited to see, you know, what's, what's next with what
if, you know, and, um, going back to the last episode, like, I feel like
there wasn't as much watcher in this one as far as like, where we wondering
that's the Watchers ever gonna like step in and do something, you know?
Um, and then having this one kind of mold, the MCU, regular timeline with
this new timeline, I'm really, they're really kind of starting to get to this
point where if they're going to do something that's going to connect at
all, I'm really excited to see, and it feels like it's, it's coming soon.
Jude: I'm wondering, we keep talking about that to you.
If we get to the end of this and they don't have kind of a through
thread, you know, um, is that gonna.
Maybe disappointing or change how you viewed these episodes as a whole.
Nick: For me, I'm not going to be disappointed at all.
And it actually would make me even more excited for a season two,
because if they, if they do a season two, I love these little vignettes.
I think they're really cool.
And I think it really fits the whole, what if, you know, as far as
like the comics went as well, like just these one-offs like, yeah.
What if, like, let's just talk about like the quick, you know, repercussions of
these small changes or these big changes.
And I think it's, it's just a cool idea and a cool way for you to just
kind of get these stories out and not have to connect everything.
Um, if it is connected, I'm going to be stoked.
And if it's not, I'm still totally
Trey: in for me.
If there is a threat, if there isn't a thing.
I hope that emboldens them to be more brazen with the story that they're
trying to tell, because right now it does feel like they're clinging on to
the prime timeline a little bit too much.
And the ones I enjoy the most is the one that breaks away from that.
So if we get to the end of this and there isn't a through line season two,
I think definitely has to take us from step in towards a firm's step towards
the Wilder side of the possibilities for
Jude: me.
Well, I, it makes me wonder when, when you say that when you consider
what they're pulling from, you know, I mean to have the, what if it you're,
you have to pull from something that's already been established.
Right.
But in season two, what I think is going to be exciting is that we're
going to get well, I'm assuming, because it's out there now.
Um, you can have.
And what if a black widow or what if a for shank shanky, um, you can have
a, what if off the Disney plus shows maybe, you know, like, like those will
be on the table now, which would be, you know, an exciting territory, just take
Nick: it.
Like what if low-key and, uh, had killed the king and the end of
the low-key you know, like, yeah.
Oh yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
That's interesting.
What if, I don't know if the new cap didn't stop the truck.
Trey: All right, dude.
One other strange thoughts.
Jude: Uh, honestly you ever straight taught, uh, kind of similar to what Nick
just said it towards the end catching the millennium Falcon mean at which I
realized I wasn't straight thought, but I saw somewhere where somebody said.
They spotted Deadpool as a Somby what, um, it was a little bit of a stretch,
uh, and admitted, but it was like one of the zombies looked like it
had double swords, like off the back.
Um, and there was speculation that that was Deadpool.
Uh, so I'm not sure I'd have to go look.
Um, and it could be again, just the wishful thinking, you know,
oh, look, there's my Festo.
Um, you know, it, it would be, Hmm, well, it might not be, I wouldn't pass, put
it past Marvel for that to be the case.
So that's, that's kinda my stray thought, just wondering, you know, is where are
there get pool or any other kind of Easter eggs within the zombies themselves?
It
Trey: felt like this would be a perfect place to put stuff like that in there,
because there's no rule that says the mutants have to be live action
first, you can kind of slow roll.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah.
Jude: And there's no rule as a, what if for them to, you know, have to,
to make sense within the rest of the MCU, because we're just pondering.
What if, what if,
Trey: well, for me, I got a couple of stray thoughts.
I'll run through them pretty quickly.
Uh, first one, uh, whenever banner is picked up by Peter
Parker, he's going, don't eat me.
Don't eat me.
That's a funny moment on its own.
But it made me realize banner has no idea who Spider-Man is, which
makes his fear that much funnier to me because in infinity war, he goes,
we have an ant man and a Spiderman.
So it lines up perfectly with what banner knows.
And I love that.
He's just so afraid of him.
Uh, another straight thought, you know, we talked about the video earlier.
Uh, something that stood out to me is that a lot of the.
Levity and hope rests on the shoulders of Spiderman in this episode.
And it's very visually indicated by in that video that he makes all
the participants he gets, except for Kurt are begrudgingly helping
him put together this video.
And it gives such a nice snapshot of like under the weight of the apocalypse.
They know this is silly, but they're still giving into the whims of Peter
Parker who was just having fun with it.
And I like that.
That's just a nice little microcosm of the thing they're trying to tell.
Yeah.
Jude: Oh one last one.
That stray thought Baba Yaga.
Oh
Trey: man.
Yeah, I had that written down too.
It's so I love that that's getting legs here.
This, uh, this episode.
Wait,
Nick: wait.
But you know, it's uh, cause he refers to ghost and Amy and two is Baba
Yaga, but eight and two wouldn't have happened the same way because, or
would it, would he just be calling?
This is Bobby August.
Trey: That's a good point.
I don't think the events of man or the wasp happen because I did,
Nick: because it did cause they that's where the, the, the quantum
realm is where the virus came from.
Oh, that's a good
Trey: point.
Yeah.
I recant what I said.
So I
Nick: wonder if ghost exists in this universe.
Hmm huh.
Anyway, just a straight thought off your straight line.
Trey: Uh, a couple more, uh, Peter has the pop culture, meadow horror
commentary character is perfect.
We know he already has that love for pop culture and I'd like that
he becomes that character in that.
Um, w and speak one more on Peter Parker, Hudson themes as Peter Parker,
I think did a really incredible job voice-wise he captured that familiarity
of Tom Holland while also again, being something on its own finally.
Nick: Well, he did, he did such a good job.
I just now realized that wasn't Tom Holland.
Trey: Oh, wow.
Jude: Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Like, like he did such a good job at it.
Not just that it wasn't Tom Holland.
I, I do get a little bit annoyed.
I see some headlines and they're very clickbait headlines that are
like the new Spiderman actor, you know, or Tom Holland's replacement.
And I'm just like, no, he, yeah.
Um, wow.
Nick: He did great.
I honestly thought it was Tom Wallen.
Trey: Yeah.
He's got that excitement to his voice that Tom Holland.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
I wonder what if yucky going, I'm going to, I'm just
curious to what else he's been
Trey: in.
Okay.
Uh, I got one more.
There's a moment where vision is directing the remaining heroes, where to go.
And he says, there's a quad jet in the hanger.
Am I being over analytical about this?
Or why did he call it a quad jet instead of a Quinjet?
Nick: Cause there's, is that a five?
Because I'm guessing it's a different universe.
Okay.
That's a good catch.
That's a really good catch because I heard him say it, but I didn't
think about it, but now you're
Jude: saying it like, yeah, I got, I got nothing on that, but yeah, you're right.
Wow.
Well,
Nick: that's a good, that's a good
Trey: catch.
It just stood out to me cause it was like, I'm so used to them referring
to it as the Quinjet and it's just a fun look at the alternate universe
of like now they use quad jets here.
They're not, they're not a Quinjet rated universe.
Nick: Uh huh.
Trey: Also this I'm buying some time for Jude if he's still looking, but you're
Jude: reminded what I'm looking, but there's nothing on there that
I see is like, oh, you played somebody in criminal minds.
Um, you know, you played late like individual TV series, TV series,
you know, a lot of TV series, one to one or two episodes here or there.
Um, and then like an episode in mad men, couple of episodes where he had a
recurring role for about four or five episodes, but nothing that I'm, that for
me personally is like really sticking out.
It's like, oh, he was in that, you know, um, this
Nick: is, uh, kind of a throwaway, but apparently in captain
Marvel, there's a quad jet.
Trey: Uh, so
Nick: nevermind, it's too interesting.
But then it makes you think like, why is there a quadrat there not a Quinjet like
what happened in this timeline to make it so they didn't adopt Quinn Quinn jets.
It is a fun
Trey: rabbit hole.
Well, that's going to do it for our stray thought, but like we did it last week.
We're going to read through some of the user submitted first takes that we got
for this episode, starting with kin.
Uh, we got this one in that says it's a good mix of humor, sadness, and hope.
I guess this is getting a second part or I hope it gets one once again,
ant man is the most dangerous hero.
I think that's playing back to what you were saying earlier, Nick.
Jude: Yes.
Nick: Truly,
Jude: truly dangerous.
And also like what y'all were saying about, you know, wanting to see
what happens to these three, you know, um, you know, I hate to just
see this one on a cliff anchor.
Yeah.
Uh, our next rule we got is from a cousin, uh, Paul, uh, I just finished it.
Wasn't my favorite.
And it was kind of totally weird.
Maybe abject despair wouldn't work in something like this, but all of the
jokes that happened, anytime, one of their friends, even if they were zombies,
uh, was killed, just felt wrong to me.
If it weren't for the tone issues I had, I would have really liked this, uh, because
of the idea of heroes still maintaining their powers as zombies is a ton of fun.
Trey: Yeah.
Yeah.
This was the one that got me really thinking about tone because it wasn't
something that I was immediately drawn to as being distracting
and my first watch through.
But I think he does have a point that they are playing with tone in a, in a goofy
way, because even, even in the moment where a coy slices salmon half, and she
says, I'm sorry, that's your friend.
He responds with a joke that says I should feel sad, but I don't.
And it's just.
Okay.
Yeah.
I see where Paul's coming from.
Yeah.
Uh, the next one we got in is from Ben Mattie on Instagram, which says love.
The episode, felt like a whole zombie film in half an hour.
Definitely want another one too.
And then it cut off, but they messaged us on Instagram to say,
I didn't realize there was only so much you could type in these.
I'd definitely want another minute.
I definitely want another episode to wrap things up or maybe a whole animated
show or movie Ben, if you really
Nick: enjoy the zombie, uh, Marvel stuff, I strongly suggest you
pick up the Marvel zombies comics.
They are wonderful.
And they will kind of give you what I think you are looking for.
Go ahead and pick it up.
Jude: Yeah.
Those are really, really good.
Really popular.
Trey: Yeah.
Nick, I always forget.
You're you're such a great resource.
When it comes to comics, you have a good knowledge of them.
Is there any particular zombie story that stands out?
Uh, the first one,
Nick: like really kind of where they, um, they introduced the whole idea of marbles.
Armies is really fun and really like it's silly and over the top
and gory and just kind of like wild.
Uh, but they're really fun.
Also the DC zombies.
I know we don't talk a lot about DC.
I know.
Oh, I'm just gonna
Trey: let me play myself.
Nick: Um, but the DCS army ones is also really, really fun too.
Um, but if you enjoy the whole zombie Marvel thing, definitely check them out.
I think, I think a lot of them do interconnect, uh, but they're fun.
Jude: Nice.
The next one, we have fun and creepy from Fran.
Daniel.
Yeah.
Fun and
Trey: creepy.
I think that, I think it's surprising how.
Horrific this episode was able to get being silly as well.
Like they did pull off some of the horror aspects of this too.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And finally, this one comes in from our friend TK over on, there was an
idea of Marvel cinematic universe podcast, where she says, I said this
on my episode, but man, I would have loved to be ant man or a wasp on the
wall and the writer's room that came up with the team and this episode.
So yeah, I think I'm kind of in that similar vein of appreciating
the dynamics, they were able to pull off between the team here.
Yeah, yeah.
And super excited to get, to check her episode out because as of this recording,
I think she just put it out today.
So we'll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well.
Nice.
Well, yeah.
Well, Nick, I just want to say thank you so much for doing this man as always.
It has been so much fun getting to chat MCU.
Nick: It's always so fun to come on here and be with you guys.
Uh, I just, I love getting the texts from Trey where it's like, Hey, do
you want to come on another episode?
It's always like, yes.
When can I come on?
Jude: It's so much fun to talk with you guys.
Thank you so much.
And just while you're on the, what you did in the turnaround
for our bonus episode was amazing.
Thank you so much.
Nick: Yeah, absolutely.
It was, it was just one of those things that, you know, Jay
texted me like, Hey, no pressure.
Can you like come up with another one of these things?
I don't know a
Jude: day.
Trey: Yeah, no heads up, no warning.
Just like, Hey, do this one.
So sorry to thank you so much.
Nick: Yeah, that was so fun.
I loved, I loved the challenge of it.
So it
Jude: was cool.
Trey: Yeah, of course.
If you want, you should definitely be following Nick Sandy across the internet.
You can find them on Twitter at Nick underscore Sandy.
Or if you want to check out some of his photography, you can find
Nick underscore, Sandy photography.
Lot of great photos, a lot of great work, definitely worth a follow.
As for us, you can always find us on social media.
MCU need to know on Twitter and Instagram, uh, we've been doing a lot
of work to put up some bonus content.
So stuff that you won't find in this episode, but little extra goodies that you
can find on those feeds as well as earlier access to some of our quick thoughts.
So we don't put these episodes out until the Monday after the episode
airs, but if you want to know what we think before then you can always
follow us on those accounts to get a little taste of what we thought of the.
Jude: And of course, if you come join the discord, uh, you can speak with
us, uh, and about these episodes as we go, uh, make sure when you're there
you go to the role of sign, click on the eye, emoji, that way you'll get
access to all the spoiler channels.
Also, we'd really appreciate it.
If you give us a rating and review the feedback is always helpful.
And of course, if you'd like what you're listening to please, you
know, share with a friend and let's have a larger conversation.
Trey: Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is
his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You can find more of his work on his SoundCloud, which is
linked in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening, Nick and Jude.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you, Trey.
Jude: Thanks so much for having me.
Trey: Yeah.
Thank you, Nick.
We'll see you all next week.
Jude: Hmm.
Oh, wait my, just drop
Trey: my mic real quick.
Okay.
Were you coming in with some dude?
Nope.
Oh,
Jude: I thought you said, wait, wait.
No.
When you usually train, when you do the mic drop, you're
signaling, you're leaving like,
Trey: oh, I didn't hear you say mic drop that's when they cut out and I was
running, that was weird that Nick is like, let me just drop my microphone.
I was like, okay.
Jude: Oh, I didn't hear that at all.
Trey: It's like, yeah, go on flex Nick.
I like it.
Jude: Okay.