Welcome to Transformative Principal, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading.
I'm your host, Jethro Jones.
You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.
Okay.
Welcome to Transformative Principal.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm Jess Jones.
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program.
He is the principal at Yardville Yardville Elementary School and he is the author of four books, his latest, which is called Autopilot Practical Productivity for School Leaders.
we're gonna talk about a lot of the stuff in there.
And he also runs the website, four O'clock Faculty, which you can find at four o'clock faculty.com.
welcome to Transformative Principle.
I'm glad to be here and, uh, can't wait to chat.
We
also.
So, uh, the book, autopilot Practical Productivity for School Leaders is, uh, something that I've been a big fan of for a long time, and I hope we can get into some nerdy stuff about it here in a little bit.
But the way that you have kind of set this up is that you encourage principals find a way to run the school before the school runs you.
What does that mean?
have a lot of administrators in schools and a lot of school leaders who are struggling right now.
So there's a lot on their plate.
There's more that's constantly added to their plate every day.
And I think it's about finding a way to get into some of the strategies that are going to help you set up those systems to be more successful.
So, minimizing some of the things that, Maybe you shouldn't be doing, uh, maximizing the time that you have for the important stuff and, uh, really helping administrators to find a way to, to do more, uh, with less.
And, uh, I think that's why we need to really focus on productivity for, uh, those school leaders.
Yeah.
You know, I have a little bit of a different take to this.
I think that principals should do less.
Uh, you're talking about finding a way to do more with less.
I think principals should just do less.
And, uh, there are so many things that we are quote unquote supposed to do in schools.
I think we need to take a step back and first figure out what is actually essential and what is just nice to have done.
Uh, what, what are your thoughts on that, rich?
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that, uh, school leaders struggle with is elimination, right?
So a lot of those things on our plate, we kind of look at and, um, some of it's nostalgia, right?
We've, we've done this for a long time.
We've always been doing this.
Let's continue to do it.
Uh, but I think when school leaders can get rid of some of those things, uh, one of my biggest pieces of advice for, um, school leaders is to, uh, do it the right way.
A time inventory, right?
Like, how are you actually spending your time during the day?
Uh, what is taking up most of your time?
Uh, figuring that out and if it's things that you can either delegate or automate, um, really taking those things off of your plate, uh, is really the key to, to making your life a lot more easier as the school leader.
I think that time inventory is so important and had a little email course for years called Ideal Week where people can go to Jethro site slash Ideal week, sign up for uh, an email list, uh, and it will.
Walk you through every day for five days, how to do that time inventory, what you can eliminate, how you can manage that, your time better, that kind of thing.
What's your advice for doing a time inventory or a time audit of how you're spending your time?
What does that look like to you?
So I think it's, uh, really, you could start with your calendar, right?
Because I think your calendar shows a lot in terms of how you spend your time.
Now, now some school leaders don't block everything out on their calendar.
Um, I think that's probably the first place to start is, you know, um, putting everything onto your calendar.
So if there are times when you're fighting fires within the building, making sure that those things are documented.
So, you know, you know, today I put out 12 fires and didn't really get to anything else.
So I think for, you know, It could be as simple as, you know, pen and paper on the desk, um, jotting down what's going on throughout the day.
Uh, but I think it does start with the calendar and making sure that you're, uh, recording everything that you're actually doing, uh, so that you can look back on that and see if, um, it's worthwhile.
Yeah, I, I think that that thing of documenting things that don't typically go on your calendar is really important because every day as a principal, you run into these things that aren't on your calendar, but it seems like they take up all of your time.
And, and that is a really.
Difficult thing to recognize.
Um, I have this little tool, which is called a, uh, it used to be called Timer, which is a, it's a eight sided dice thing basically that fits in the palm of my hand, and I use that to, uh, swap between different modes of work each day.
And it keeps track of what I'm doing.
There's also an app that I can just start that thing and say, this is what I'm working on.
And this kind of intentional design about your
Okay.
to what you're doing is valuable.
The real problem with that is, uh, when you're not at your desk, then it's hard to flip that thing to the right side that says, this is what I'm working on.
And so.
Taking the time to really do that is Im, is super important and can be really valuable.
there are you, one of the things you said a couple minutes ago was figuring out what you can automate and what does that
Yeah.
today?
Because automation looked very different just five years ago.
So what does that look like to you right now?
I always talk about how automation, a lot of people think about automation in terms of technology and what that looks like.
Within my school, I'm a pre -k to 5 building, so we have elementary students in our building.
But I think a lot of automation can actually happen within a building.
By by delegation, right is automating through other people doing things.
So one of the examples from our school is we have, um, our morning announcers.
So our 5th grade morning announcers.
So I've been in other buildings where the school principal does the announcements or maybe it's a school counselor or someone like that.
I basically train.
Our fifth grade students at the beginning of the school year for about two weeks.
It takes me to get through everything with them.
We have a full template for how the announcements go every morning.
I train each of them in each of the different roles of the morning announced team, and after that two weeks, it's automated, right?
They can do it any day.
Um, any of them can do any of the roles and, um, You know, I hand them a schedule and say, here's when you're announcing, uh, and it's great because it takes that off of my plate.
Um, it's an automated piece.
It gives.
Those students, that leadership piece as well, helps them to kind of develop their own, um, their own leadership and empowers them to do so.
So, I don't think the automation always has to be a technology piece.
It could be having others help you with some of that stuff.
Um, you know, and, uh, You know, I think what we're kind of talking about here is how, how it looked a lot different, you know, five years ago than it does today.
Um, I think it's that power of, of AI and what that can actually do for us, uh, to help us, uh, take some of those tasks off of our plate.
So, uh, we'll talk about AI more in a second.
'cause you got a whole chapter on this, uh, uh, on this, uh, automation.
Thing.
And really, uh, a lot of it is about empowering and delegating others.
So definitely want people to check that out more in depth.
But I want to pick your brain a little bit more about this because a lot of value in having the students do the announcements.
In my schools, we created a daily news crew that did a livestream video that they sent, uh, to the teachers in, in the first school I was at, we actually plugged it into our, uh, in-house video system.
'cause every.
Every classroom had a TV in it and we could broadcast into every room, and that was,
Yes.
Okay.
the benefit that that gave from me, one, not doing the announcements, I would, I would
Are you?
kids got everything ready and got everything set up and, and did
Okay.
for the announcements.
What was so cool about that is that the kids had this feeling of.
Of contributing to the
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like it mattered, that they were there
Broadband is the place for you.
for me that was a huge, uh, boon for all of those kids to see what they could to contribute to the school.
Can you talk a little bit about that empowerment piece and how it makes people feel like they're such valuable members of the community?
Yeah, it's, it's really that ownership piece.
Um, you know, there were, there was a time when I was leaving the building one day, I had a meeting off, off campus.
And as I was leaving, I had to walk through the playground where kids were outside playing and had a student stop me and say, you know, who's, who's going to be in charge while you're gone?
And my answer was everyone.
Right.
And I think that's the ownership that you're looking for, uh, for, um, for your school, right?
You want those students to, to feel like they're needed at the school, right?
To, to take some piece of ownership.
Uh, we actually do our fifth grade leadership, uh, roles.
So, um, morning announcer is just one of those, but we have several other roles within the building.
We have peer leaders, we have, uh, safety patrol members.
Um, we actually ask our students in four at the end of fourth grade, uh, think about.
Maybe a couple of the jobs that they want for the following year, the leadership roles and they have to write a resume.
So they get some of those skills where they're thinking about what it is that they do well, what skills they may have and how they might lend those skills to the school.
And I think the more that we can empower students to do those things, those are the things that they're actually interested in.
And several years ago, I was talking to one of our third grade students and it was a student who struggled.
with getting things done in the classroom, like wouldn't do his work, wouldn't do his homework.
Um, and this was a kid who was at home, you know, with his own YouTube channel.
And so every day he was making videos that are going up on his YouTube channel, and it was trying to harness that energy.
Into helping him learn, and I think when we can do those things, give those students projects or different skills that help them to take their interest and bring them into school.
I think that's more powerful than any worksheet or anything like that in the classroom.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that's, that's one of the big amazing things as we transition, transition to talking a little bit about AI is what AI can do to personalize things for each and every student in front of us.
And, um.
You know, we're recording this in November and just today released that they are going to have chat GPT for teachers, which will be free for all K 12 teachers for the next, uh, 18 months or so, and being able to take a. A story, a problem, uh, something, and then instantly individualize it for everybody in your class is a really powerful thing.
And I'm curious to see where this goes.
We don't know exactly what it's gonna look like just yet because they're starting with a, uh, with about 150,000 teachers.
Um.
Uh, I'm sorry.
Before they release a Tera Bay, they're starting with this smaller group of three districts, if I read the, uh, press release correctly.
And, and so it's interesting to see what kinds of things these, these things can enable.
What other ways do you see AI really impacting the day-to-day work of a principal?
I do think it makes it a lot easier to handle some of the minute details, right?
The minutiae, the administrivia where, you know, you're, you're responding to an email.
I think it's just a time saver across the board.
Using it in many ways.
Scheduling, you know, managing all of those small details within the school day that used to take up a lot of time can be done.
Instantly, almost now.
So, um, I, I think as a time saver and just an efficient from an efficiency standpoint, I think it absolutely helps school leaders every day.
And these little things, um, that are things that often need to be done, but we don't, uh, they take time.
These little things are really powerful where AI can step in and do that.
You know, you used to create a, an Excel spreadsheet and do a mail merge and that kind of a thing, and now that can.
Done even easier and more individualized with just a couple things and you say, Hey, I need to do this and recreate this for 10 different groups and it will rewrite the same message for a bunch of different people.
And that kind of thing is, is really powerful and, and it really forces us to ask, going back to what we talked about before, um.
Do we really need to do those things?
Uh, are those things essential?
Maybe instead of sending an email, we need to pick up the phone and call somebody, and we have to really interrogate those things.
What are some of your piece of advice for how to make smart decisions
Oh, I think I think the big piece is, um, we always talk about the, uh, the person along with the AI, right?
Where you're using it as a thought partner, um, you know, versus kind of just spitting out information and instantly sharing that.
Um, so, you know, I think the term that, uh, Has been most popularized with that is the human in the loop, right?
You want the human there to make sure that everything's going okay.
I'm actually on our district's AI committee and we've been talking about what, um, how teachers should be using it, how students should be using it.
Um, and we have kind of repurposed that phrase to the human in the lead, and I think that's really the big difference is not only are you in the loop, but you're leading that process, right?
You're, um, deciding, um, number one on what your prompt looks like, um, and I think that's a key part of it is how are you prompting AI?
Uh, what are you asking it?
What information are you putting in there, um, to, um, Hopefully spit out exactly what it is that you're looking for, but then also taking that information on and making sure that when it is shared out, you know, there's no bias involved that you are really taking control of that process and not just using it as an instant time saver to to eliminate yourself within that role.
Yeah, and there's a great quote from, uh, from Ethan Molik who is at UPenn, who's doing lot of good stuff on, on a AI stuff, and he recently said that.
human in the loop is evolving from a human who fixes AI mistakes to human who directs AI work.
And that is, uh, that's a big change from where it was just a couple years ago.
But that really needs to be the, uh, the idea that the human needs to be in charge and leading.
And I think that's, that's really important.
Um.
One, one other thing that I, that I want to talk about, uh, from your book is you talk about energy and you having the energy as a principal.
Can you tell me a little bit about how you see that and what that looks like for, uh, the school leader and,
Yeah, as I said earlier, I think we have a lot of administrators who are in school leaders who are getting.
burnout, right?
Um, and they're struggling to, to keep up with everything that keeps coming at us and they struggle to, to maintain the, um, energy to kind of fight those fires on a daily basis.
So I think from the, from the energy perspective, I think you sometimes have to, um, close up shop, you know, and, um, uh, the other day I wrote a blog post about, um, the open door policy and how it's killing productivity, right?
Um, And I think, you know, I've, I've been in a number of interviews over the years for administrative physicians, and I think nearly every candidate that we, you know, we've ever asked that question of what's your, what's your leadership management style, you know, and almost everyone spits out that answer of why I have an open door policy, right?
People can come see me at any time.
And I think when you have that open door, um, it invites everyone to dump Their problems on you.
And I think that's what happens to a lot of school leaders across the board is those problems are dumped on them, you know, and I kind of use the phrase you're the problem solving vending machine at that point, right?
Somebody is throwing in some change.
They're giving you a problem and hopefully you're spinning out a solution.
And I think when that happens, I think he can can burn you out.
So, uh, I think it's important sometimes to close the door.
When you're working on something meaningful, letting others know that you are putting that do not disturb sign on the door and letting them know that you're doing some meaningful, important work in there because even even if you have that open door policy and you do close your door, you're still going to get people knocking.
You're still going to people trying to come in.
So, um, I think from an energy perspective, I think sometimes we do have to close the door.
We do have to make ourselves to close the door.
Less available.
I don't want to say unavailable, but less available, um, for, for some of the minutiae and, and making sure that we're taking on everybody else's problems.
Thank
Teachers have essential work.
Work that they do that they cannot be disturbed from and get frustrated when they are disturbed from it, which is direct instruction teaching students.
And it is perfectly acceptable for principals to have that work that they do without getting interrupted.
And the
you
most people.
Deal with is that they
very much.
issues that they, those things they need to work on and they do 'em at home at night instead of making it part of the school day.
And I, I coach principals and I have for, for many years, nearly a decade now, and one of the things that I started doing was saying, we're just going to, we're
We're going to be starting in about a minute.
So I want to take a quick moment to remind you that the June 23rd election is not here yet.
are gonna do it
We still have the presidential elections, which are scheduled for July 1st.
So we're going to be doing a lot of work on that, but I want to make it real clear that we're going to be working to get our elections done.
So we're going to be getting it done, but we're also going to be doing a lot of work to I'm going to be talking about what's going on in the world.
a
And I'm going to talk briefly about some of the things that are going on.
For the
can start
most part, most of the time, there's a lot happening on the internet,
and
not very easy to do the talk,
to an
and that's what we have here at this talk.
I think it's also about training, uh, you know, our colleagues and our our staff on, um, you know, we we use this language with our elementary students, but, um, to to rate a problem on a scale of 1 to 10 right?
Um, is this a 10 problem?
Is this the 1 problem?
Is it a 3 problem?
Like, where is it on the spectrum of how big of a problem is this actually?
And I think for.
For our colleagues that are in the buildings, you know, I think it's about training them to figure out like, okay, you're you're at my door right now, making this into a big problem, a 10 problem, but it's really only a one or two, right?
And I think for me, it's about.
Staying pretty calm and even keeled, right?
Not too high, not too low, ever.
Um, and I think that does help to kind of calm others in those situations as well.
But it is really helping others to kind of see what, what's an actual problem.
Yeah, for sure.
And a, a. Understanding how big of a problem something is, is another skill that needs to be developed.
And we don't have time to go into that today, but I will, uh, ask you my final question, rich, which is this.
What is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative
So I think the biggest thing is, is finding that way to run the school before it runs you.
So, um, I would say Elimination, right?
That's the number one thing.
So I think if the, um, school leaders out there can, can do a time audit, um, you know, take a look at their schedule tomorrow.
What does it look like?
Um, what's on their schedule?
What are they doing that they can delegate to others?
Um, what are they doing that they can automate?
And, um, what are they doing that doesn't need to be done?
Right?
And I think if you can eliminate one thing from your plate this week, um, you know, I think that certainly makes you a much better leader going into going into the next week.
Absolutely.
I, I totally agree.
Find something to eliminate.
That's huge.
Take something off your plate that makes a big deal.
Difference once again.
Uh, rich, thank you for being here.
His book is Autopilot Practical Productivity for School Leaders.
Go check that out.
You can get it wherever books are sold.
Amazon for sure.
There's a link in the show notes at Transformative Principal dot org to that book.
Rich,
for
Yeah, Jethro, thank you.
Absolutely.
It's been fun and I appreciate it.