WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:26.287 --> 00:00:58.212 Eli Davis: This is Eli Davis, and this is AI with Eli, and I have the pleasure of having one of, one of the coolest people that I know somebody who I have known for a Number of years, so I am here to introduce Marlena Ward Dodds Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds. 00:00:59.372 --> 00:01:21.392 I messed up on the doctor part because you know, I've known Marlena I know two different names for Marlena that her family calls her one of the cool things that about this podcast or about this particular episode is that Marlena is my best friend's sister. 00:01:21.602 --> 00:01:26.122 And my best friend passed away when I was 27 and he was 26 in a car accident. 00:01:26.532 --> 00:01:34.577 So this is, You know, we haven't seen each other or we haven't really talked much throughout the years, but we follow each other. 00:01:34.637 --> 00:01:39.407 You know, we make sure that we, you know, we know, of course I have to talk to her. 00:01:39.407 --> 00:01:39.887 Mama 00:01:40.557 --> 00:01:42.657 That's man, sorry. 00:01:43.067 --> 00:01:48.257 And I love to, because I learn so much and I get so much insight from the conversations that I have with Ms. Ward. 00:01:48.647 --> 00:01:55.357 So, without further ado you know, I just wanted to go ahead and say welcome. 00:01:55.629 --> 00:01:57.429 Welcome, uh, Nate, Marlene. 00:01:58.154 --> 00:01:59.454 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: And I'm so proud of you too. 00:01:59.789 --> 00:02:00.979 Eli Davis: yeah, thank you. 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:02.339 I appreciate it, y'all. 00:02:02.389 --> 00:02:02.879 Welcome. 00:02:03.739 --> 00:02:05.009 Very interesting. 00:02:05.089 --> 00:02:12.309 So, you know, I've been reaching out to people who've been kind of getting into artificial intelligence because it's just an interesting thing to me. 00:02:12.309 --> 00:02:14.615 I, I, you know, it's just interesting. 00:02:14.615 --> 00:02:21.230 So, before we started the podcast, we were getting ready to go all the way in it, all the way in it. 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.010 So, first of all I just automatically want to call you Nay, 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:25.630 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: It's okay. 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.990 You can call me nay. 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:27.610 Eli Davis: All right, Nay. 00:02:27.660 --> 00:02:28.290 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: all good. 00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:28.870 Eli Davis: Okay good. 00:02:28.920 --> 00:02:29.390 All right, Nay. 00:02:29.650 --> 00:02:36.480 So, so, go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us how you have gotten into artificial intelligence, why, and why it's interesting to you. 00:02:37.260 --> 00:02:38.200 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Absolutely. 00:02:38.230 --> 00:02:40.280 So thank you so much for having me. 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:42.090 I'm super excited. 00:02:42.110 --> 00:02:46.690 And I've been just waiting for our time together and just excited about it. 00:02:46.690 --> 00:02:50.230 I finished up doing a short panel discussion. 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:51.440 It was a couple weeks ago now. 00:02:52.070 --> 00:03:07.263 Talking about AI and I've been just kind of making myself a researcher of AI and more specifically how AI ties into higher education and learning and development and inclusive learning and development that's kind of my niche area. 00:03:07.813 --> 00:03:10.453 And so it is, I think it's going to be a game changer. 00:03:10.453 --> 00:03:18.691 So I first I Got a little interested in emerging technologies through my master's degree program I finished years ago. 00:03:19.211 --> 00:03:30.291 I was an online instructional designer and so was very passionate about online learning and how to make it inclusive because it was mainly adult learners. 00:03:30.291 --> 00:03:33.216 And so there's It's a little different when you're dealing with adult learners. 00:03:33.616 --> 00:03:35.926 And because it was online, you had the technology component. 00:03:35.926 --> 00:03:40.516 And so finding those ed tech tools that really work and help with the learning experience. 00:03:41.106 --> 00:03:45.786 And so I've always had an interest there in, you know, what's happening in the ed tech world. 00:03:45.796 --> 00:03:48.295 And so when generative AI. 00:03:48.776 --> 00:03:54.416 We've been using AI, obviously, you know, Grammarly and all the other tools that have, you know, people don't always recognize that was AI. 00:03:54.416 --> 00:03:55.756 You know, that's, we've been using it. 00:03:55.786 --> 00:03:55.946 It's 00:03:56.021 --> 00:03:56.231 Eli Davis: Hold on. 00:03:56.271 --> 00:03:56.511 Hold on. 00:03:56.511 --> 00:03:56.871 Hold on. 00:03:57.401 --> 00:03:57.601 Hold on. 00:03:57.601 --> 00:03:58.211 One second, Nick. 00:03:58.431 --> 00:04:02.937 I remember I was taking an online course and I got a B plus and how 00:04:05.259 --> 00:04:07.139 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: me tell you something about online learning, though. 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:11.259 People, it's, it's, if it's done the right way it's the real deal. 00:04:11.359 --> 00:04:12.489 It challenges you. 00:04:14.144 --> 00:04:17.984 Eli Davis: professor, the professor, she didn't give me feedback until five weeks. 00:04:18.379 --> 00:04:19.919 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah, that's a problem. 00:04:20.004 --> 00:04:20.994 Eli Davis: Yeah, that's a problem. 00:04:21.264 --> 00:04:21.414 Yeah. 00:04:21.454 --> 00:04:22.554 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Huge problem. 00:04:22.619 --> 00:04:23.369 Eli Davis: I challenged it. 00:04:23.369 --> 00:04:27.512 I even a submitted a a letter to the chair of the department. 00:04:27.962 --> 00:04:28.352 Right. 00:04:28.807 --> 00:04:29.947 He shut me down. 00:04:29.947 --> 00:04:31.387 He was like, man, if you don't get outta here 00:04:33.082 --> 00:04:35.392 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: You're going to take this B plus and set it out somewhere is what he's saying. 00:04:38.012 --> 00:04:38.862 That's what you're going to do. 00:04:39.322 --> 00:04:42.472 But online learning, like the feedback component is huge, right? 00:04:42.502 --> 00:04:49.772 And that's where, especially novice online instructors, they don't always get it right in that. 00:04:50.182 --> 00:04:55.902 That part, because you got to do some coaching, mentoring, feedback, you got some elements of those, you have to do that in online learning. 00:04:56.392 --> 00:05:00.532 And the other thing I tell my students, and I'll kind of tie this in AI in a minute. 00:05:00.862 --> 00:05:06.412 The other thing I tell my students is even though you don't have me, like, we don't have we're meeting Asynchronous, right? 00:05:06.432 --> 00:05:07.782 We don't have a set time that we're meeting. 00:05:07.852 --> 00:05:09.792 I'm still available, so I'm still doing videos. 00:05:09.882 --> 00:05:13.262 I'm still trying to be present. 00:05:13.632 --> 00:05:14.442 I'm creating online. 00:05:14.442 --> 00:05:17.172 I have online chats for my online classes so that we're talking. 00:05:17.182 --> 00:05:19.172 We're building community, right? 00:05:19.172 --> 00:05:22.942 And I think that's sometimes what's missing in online learning is building that community. 00:05:23.222 --> 00:05:28.002 So I try to do that so my learners don't feel like they're on the island by themselves and don't 00:05:28.007 --> 00:05:28.157 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:05:28.182 --> 00:05:28.732 I agree. 00:05:28.732 --> 00:05:29.722 That is important. 00:05:29.907 --> 00:05:30.267 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: yeah. 00:05:30.967 --> 00:05:51.937 So tying that back to AI I think one of the things What I'm learning is that AI can be super beneficial in helping those facilitators, educators, instructors, professors, whatever we're calling ourselves in those learning and development capacities. 00:05:52.547 --> 00:05:55.537 You can use AI as a wonderful tool to help you ideate. 00:05:56.037 --> 00:05:57.547 You know, if you're not sure what to do. 00:05:57.557 --> 00:05:58.637 Okay, let me ask. 00:05:58.637 --> 00:06:00.247 What are some ideas, right? 00:06:00.247 --> 00:06:08.787 What are some things that could help me and help my learners and you can use it so you can use it in so many wonderful ways. 00:06:08.787 --> 00:06:20.607 It doesn't have to some people are using it to just generate content and copy and paste it, but I like to use it to ideate to get my brain flowing and get ideas and Chopping up the ideas like, oh yeah, I like that. 00:06:20.637 --> 00:06:21.267 I don't like that. 00:06:21.267 --> 00:06:21.877 Let me tweak that. 00:06:21.877 --> 00:06:24.427 You know, it's a good way to help get the brain flowing. 00:06:24.437 --> 00:06:24.747 Right. 00:06:24.787 --> 00:06:25.197 I love it. 00:06:25.267 --> 00:06:25.987 I love to use it that way. 00:06:26.532 --> 00:06:27.282 Eli Davis: I got a question. 00:06:27.492 --> 00:06:30.302 So, in higher ed, there's a lot of writing going on. 00:06:30.802 --> 00:06:33.612 One of my favorite writers, Ta Nehisi Coates, 00:06:33.957 --> 00:06:35.327 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, I'm reading the message now. 00:06:35.327 --> 00:06:35.997 I'm listening to it. 00:06:35.997 --> 00:06:36.877 It's phenomenal. 00:06:36.877 --> 00:06:37.637 Oh my gosh. 00:06:37.747 --> 00:06:40.327 That book is, it's been captivating. 00:06:40.337 --> 00:06:41.757 It's, I can't even explain. 00:06:41.797 --> 00:06:42.777 Yeah, it's that book. 00:06:42.787 --> 00:06:44.207 I don't even know what chapter I'm on. 00:06:44.207 --> 00:06:44.937 I'm just in it. 00:06:44.957 --> 00:06:46.387 I'm actually listening to it and 00:06:46.572 --> 00:06:46.782 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:06:46.782 --> 00:06:47.142 Yeah. 00:06:47.592 --> 00:06:47.842 Yep. 00:06:47.872 --> 00:06:48.132 Yep. 00:06:48.132 --> 00:06:48.332 Yep. 00:06:48.372 --> 00:06:48.572 Yep. 00:06:48.852 --> 00:06:49.922 Exactly how I did it. 00:06:50.182 --> 00:06:54.682 And I didn't think that I was going to like it that way because you know, I'm a fan. 00:06:54.722 --> 00:06:56.012 I'm a fan of his writing. 00:06:56.092 --> 00:06:56.992 But I enjoyed it. 00:06:57.272 --> 00:06:59.482 I do think that he's stunting a little bit on it though. 00:07:00.022 --> 00:07:03.082 He he like, he's stunting. 00:07:03.107 --> 00:07:04.257 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Cause I'm only on, I don't know 00:07:04.262 --> 00:07:04.522 Eli Davis: Okay. 00:07:04.522 --> 00:07:05.022 I'm not. 00:07:05.092 --> 00:07:05.412 Yeah. 00:07:05.872 --> 00:07:06.082 Yeah. 00:07:06.082 --> 00:07:06.252 Yeah. 00:07:06.252 --> 00:07:06.462 Yeah. 00:07:06.462 --> 00:07:06.742 Yeah. 00:07:06.782 --> 00:07:08.692 He's kind of, he's kind of popping his collar. 00:07:08.752 --> 00:07:10.872 He's popping his collar. 00:07:11.322 --> 00:07:17.582 You know, he should but that last chapter is, that last chapter is like, like he went in on that one. 00:07:18.082 --> 00:07:18.322 Huh. 00:07:18.372 --> 00:07:18.622 Yeah. 00:07:18.622 --> 00:07:18.922 He went 00:07:18.982 --> 00:07:20.032 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Never heard of him. 00:07:20.082 --> 00:07:25.902 I just recently, I think he was on the news talking up on new certain news channels, talking about it. 00:07:25.902 --> 00:07:30.132 And then some of my friends started posting about it and I'm like, okay, I got it. 00:07:30.132 --> 00:07:33.822 And then someone else who knows I like to read, she was like, you got to read this book. 00:07:33.822 --> 00:07:40.392 So I'm finally, I finally started it this weekend while I was out walking and I'm like, Oh, Mg, this is about to be good. 00:07:40.392 --> 00:07:40.712 Good. 00:07:40.742 --> 00:07:41.582 And it's so hard. 00:07:41.612 --> 00:07:42.752 It's really good. 00:07:43.292 --> 00:07:51.572 Eli Davis: So, so, so what he says is that when you're writing with artificial intelligence, it's really not writing. 00:07:52.072 --> 00:07:53.032 What do you think about that? 00:07:54.132 --> 00:08:08.902 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: You know what, I can see, especially a writer of his magnitude, like the kind of writer that he is, I could see where he would definitely I could see where that's coming from, but I can also looking at it through the lens of someone who just needs to write. 00:08:09.722 --> 00:08:14.272 Or a business email and memo just learning. 00:08:14.362 --> 00:08:16.962 I think it could be a very useful tool, 00:08:17.062 --> 00:08:27.672 But I think creative writing may be a little bit different from those types of writing, but I don't the classes that I teach are in the school and area of business and learning and development. 00:08:27.907 --> 00:08:28.127 Right. 00:08:28.127 --> 00:08:37.077 And so writing in my learners don't have to do a lot of writing in my classes, but I do think there is some again, going back to being able to use the tool to ideate. 00:08:37.717 --> 00:08:44.197 I also think that because I work in business settings and talking to business leaders. 00:08:44.637 --> 00:08:55.637 And what's missing from the newer young people coming into the workforce are those durable power, durable skills, power skills, soft skills, people skills, like whatever word we're using for the day, right? 00:08:55.637 --> 00:08:59.017 Those are the skills that are missing. 00:08:59.057 --> 00:09:01.757 And so when we look at that tools and even digital literacy. 00:09:02.347 --> 00:09:02.787 Right. 00:09:03.717 --> 00:09:08.387 People are on their phones and flipping through their phones, but they don't always understand how to use the technology the right way. 00:09:09.217 --> 00:09:25.477 And so when we're looking at it, so I get what he's saying, but when we're looking at AI from a standpoint of being able to create an email, create a memo, create a blog, like, I think it can be a really cool tool to help someone who's not super comfortable with writing. 00:09:26.107 --> 00:09:26.747 You can kind of. 00:09:26.992 --> 00:09:34.102 Give them, you know, some something a crutch or whatever crutch, so to speak, to lean on to help them to build their confidence in their writing. 00:09:34.142 --> 00:09:35.802 Obviously, you still have to read it. 00:09:36.112 --> 00:09:39.082 One of the things I learned about AI is you still got a proofread. 00:09:39.092 --> 00:09:43.352 You still have to make sure it's not hallucinating because you copy and paste and stuff. 00:09:43.642 --> 00:09:44.552 And it's crazy. 00:09:44.552 --> 00:09:46.462 You look at my Oh, man, that's embarrassing. 00:09:46.867 --> 00:09:49.817 Eli Davis: You know, you know, one of the things that I you know, I use it. 00:09:50.387 --> 00:09:51.957 I'm a real fan of Basquiat. 00:09:52.767 --> 00:09:53.557 You know what I mean? 00:09:53.607 --> 00:09:55.307 Abstract painter Jean Michel Basquiat. 00:09:55.822 --> 00:09:58.932 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: oh, so you Okay, so you create do you create images and 00:09:59.147 --> 00:10:01.377 Eli Davis: No, not necessarily creating images. 00:10:01.407 --> 00:10:05.957 I it's like, what is this new paintbrush that we're using? 00:10:06.997 --> 00:10:07.757 You know what I'm saying? 00:10:07.807 --> 00:10:12.367 So it's like, okay, so, you know, you know, I love to write. 00:10:12.367 --> 00:10:13.017 I'm a writer, 00:10:13.152 --> 00:10:14.082 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah, right. 00:10:14.182 --> 00:10:17.392 Eli Davis: But I also played a guitar, you know what I mean? 00:10:17.392 --> 00:10:26.192 So I know how to have something to be able to express myself with a tool or with something else. 00:10:26.412 --> 00:10:26.832 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yup. 00:10:27.192 --> 00:10:29.422 I remember when you started guitar lessons long ago. 00:10:29.452 --> 00:10:30.762 Remember you taught yourself how to play? 00:10:30.992 --> 00:10:31.242 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:10:31.302 --> 00:10:36.247 And that was a year after Quincy passed and I was super depressed. 00:10:36.922 --> 00:10:39.472 And I didn't know, you know, I had two kids. 00:10:39.902 --> 00:10:43.942 I had no idea what was going on in the world in 00:10:43.997 --> 00:10:44.837 Needed something. 00:10:45.172 --> 00:10:45.252 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I 00:10:45.277 --> 00:10:46.147 Eli Davis: picked up the guitar. 00:10:46.187 --> 00:10:46.627 Yeah. 00:10:46.627 --> 00:10:49.937 So, you know, I've been playing, what is it almost 24 years 00:10:50.012 --> 00:10:50.482 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:10:50.762 --> 00:10:51.302 Yeah. 00:10:51.462 --> 00:10:51.762 Yeah. 00:10:51.832 --> 00:10:52.592 I remember that. 00:10:52.592 --> 00:10:53.862 You got good at it too. 00:10:54.087 --> 00:10:54.267 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:10:55.202 --> 00:11:02.337 You know, you know, I've, you know, I can go to, I can go to churches now and just be like, excuse the pastor, brother, pastor. 00:11:02.642 --> 00:11:04.062 You might if I, haha. 00:11:04.377 --> 00:11:06.227 You know, so, yeah. 00:11:06.227 --> 00:11:06.527 So 00:11:06.612 --> 00:11:08.312 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: so having that tool, right? 00:11:08.402 --> 00:11:11.472 Going back to what you were saying it's, for folks who are not. 00:11:11.877 --> 00:11:13.517 As confident in their writing. 00:11:14.927 --> 00:11:24.487 It could certainly be used as a tool and if done correctly the educator can help them prompt learn how to prompt and learn how to pull the best out of it. 00:11:24.487 --> 00:11:24.827 Right. 00:11:25.437 --> 00:11:28.937 But I get from a creative writing standpoint also get that I get that 00:11:29.002 --> 00:11:29.292 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:11:29.402 --> 00:11:30.372 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Both sides of the coin. 00:11:30.722 --> 00:11:31.022 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:11:31.322 --> 00:11:33.122 So, you know, I teach at Miles College. 00:11:33.122 --> 00:11:34.842 It's a little HBCU at Miles. 00:11:34.892 --> 00:11:35.392 Yeah. 00:11:35.392 --> 00:11:56.442 So I, so, so my students, they use it and I have to have a whole, I had to, I have to, I said, okay today we're going to take 30 minutes so that I can show you how to effectively use artificial intelligence, because I know I'm not getting ready to be able to stop you from using it. 00:11:57.282 --> 00:12:04.652 But you can't just go and just have this blanket general my biases show this and all that. 00:12:04.652 --> 00:12:06.682 And I'm like, okay, so what biases? 00:12:06.762 --> 00:12:09.692 You know, overly general, overly generalized. 00:12:09.782 --> 00:12:10.982 It was one thing. 00:12:11.657 --> 00:12:27.487 So, so we have a couple of questions that, yep, that we have here and I am going to go to what steps should be taken to ensure equitable access to the technology of AI is for all students. 00:12:27.807 --> 00:12:34.957 So, so, so first of all, explain that question for us, and then go ahead and let us know what we got going on. 00:12:35.892 --> 00:12:36.332 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Awesome. 00:12:36.332 --> 00:12:41.072 Yeah, that one was kind of stemmed out of my that panel discussion. 00:12:41.072 --> 00:12:41.992 I just did recently. 00:12:41.992 --> 00:12:43.582 We've been looking at ethics and AI. 00:12:43.582 --> 00:12:43.922 Can you hear me? 00:12:43.922 --> 00:12:44.242 Okay. 00:12:44.387 --> 00:12:45.017 Eli Davis: Yeah, I can hear you 00:12:45.022 --> 00:12:45.842 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, okay. 00:12:46.352 --> 00:12:54.172 And so I think it's, well, the question, what steps should be taken to ensure equitable access to these, to the technologies for all students. 00:12:54.932 --> 00:13:05.612 I think it goes back to one, we have to, we meaning the organization, the educational organization, we meaning just communities of people, right? 00:13:05.732 --> 00:13:06.022 Eli Davis: Okay. 00:13:06.027 --> 00:13:06.427 Okay. 00:13:06.427 --> 00:13:13.997 Before we go into that part, step back just a little bit and explain to us what your ideas of equitable access is. 00:13:14.102 --> 00:13:23.392 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, that's to me ensuring that everyone has Access to the tools that are going to be necessary to take them to achieve their goals, whatever that is for them, right? 00:13:24.012 --> 00:13:25.542 Everybody's at different places. 00:13:25.642 --> 00:13:30.402 Some people will need Internet access, right? 00:13:30.462 --> 00:13:39.642 . People need to learn how just how to navigate the tools that, you know, so whatever meeting the learner where they are, that's kind of what I'm thinking because everybody's at different places, right? 00:13:39.842 --> 00:13:40.902 And that's what equity is. 00:13:40.912 --> 00:13:44.222 It's not giving everybody equal access is giving them what they need. 00:13:44.897 --> 00:13:47.107 So that's when I'm looking at that question. 00:13:47.697 --> 00:13:48.667 That's what I'm thinking. 00:13:48.847 --> 00:13:56.897 So in order to know what everybody needs, you have to have some type of evaluation tool to say, okay, we have X amount of students who need Internet access. 00:13:56.897 --> 00:13:57.797 I know when COVID hit. 00:13:58.307 --> 00:14:06.047 I think we really learned not and it was even eye opening for me being an educator and at the same at that time I was homeschooling my son. 00:14:06.567 --> 00:14:08.787 Caleb was what fifth grade I think. 00:14:09.247 --> 00:14:12.007 Yeah, fifth grade, and a lot of the things 00:14:12.057 --> 00:14:13.427 Eli Davis: What grade what where? 00:14:14.367 --> 00:14:14.807 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: We're crazy 00:14:15.107 --> 00:14:15.617 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:14:15.647 --> 00:14:16.247 Uhhuh, because, 00:14:16.497 --> 00:14:16.797 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:14:17.377 --> 00:14:21.227 Eli Davis: 'cause, you know, I didn't have the privilege to get to know Caleb very 00:14:21.327 --> 00:14:22.537 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, he's a wonderful kid. 00:14:22.547 --> 00:14:23.177 You love him. 00:14:23.217 --> 00:14:24.517 You he's an awesome kid. 00:14:24.637 --> 00:14:31.657 I'll have to send you some pictures of him so you can kind of see, but he's, he homeschooled and loved, like, I love homeschooling him. 00:14:31.707 --> 00:14:34.207 And it was a perfect time, you know, cause we missed the junior high. 00:14:34.877 --> 00:14:35.477 Fiasco. 00:14:35.477 --> 00:14:40.637 And you know, the drama with junior high, you know, the stuff happening to kids and they're changing and this is wild. 00:14:40.637 --> 00:14:40.847 Right? 00:14:40.847 --> 00:14:41.777 And so we missed a lot of that. 00:14:41.777 --> 00:14:49.127 He was a little green when he started high school, but we, had to have a lot of talks and like, okay, we have to help the brother out , because Woo. 00:14:49.127 --> 00:14:49.457 Yeah. 00:14:49.457 --> 00:14:50.387 But he's good now. 00:14:50.387 --> 00:14:51.527 He, you know, he adapted. 00:14:51.557 --> 00:14:53.087 I mean, he is wonderful. 00:14:53.117 --> 00:14:57.037 Now to do a he was chosen to be a student ambassador for some, he's always picked for stuff. 00:14:57.037 --> 00:14:58.387 But anyway, a sidebar. 00:14:58.822 --> 00:15:02.802 So I was homeschooling and I was, you know, I'm an educator. 00:15:03.122 --> 00:15:04.782 And so there were things I even took for granted. 00:15:04.922 --> 00:15:13.762 You know, you just think people have access to a computer, have access to the internet, know how to navigate the learning management system and all the ed tech tools to help. 00:15:14.102 --> 00:15:23.422 Because when COVID happened, everything happened so swiftly that there was no, very little data on who had what, who needed what, how they were going to get it. 00:15:23.432 --> 00:15:27.412 Like it was figured out, like you just have to figure things out, right? 00:15:27.547 --> 00:15:27.624 . . Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:15:27.749 --> 00:15:30.329 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: that's when I became more 00:15:30.702 --> 00:15:33.262 Aware of the digital divides. 00:15:34.532 --> 00:15:42.392 Knowing what that you know what folks needed to be successful in a learning environment, especially now that everything was online. 00:15:43.252 --> 00:15:50.582 So, when I look at a question like that, I'm looking at, you know, understanding the needs of the people of the learner. 00:15:51.227 --> 00:15:56.927 And then finding ways to make it equitable for them, like whatever tools that they need to do that. 00:15:57.287 --> 00:16:04.567 And so a little, when I look at generative AI, I think of, I think it's going to widen the gap initially, right? 00:16:04.617 --> 00:16:08.927 Because you already, it's not like we've caught up on that gap, that digital divide is there. 00:16:08.937 --> 00:16:09.657 It's been there. 00:16:09.657 --> 00:16:12.527 And now you add another element to it, right? 00:16:12.607 --> 00:16:17.597 And so now employers are adding this to, you know, their ecosystems. 00:16:19.257 --> 00:16:23.857 So now I have student I'm saying hypothetically, if you have students who are already behind. 00:16:24.637 --> 00:16:26.797 Now you're adding another element to it. 00:16:27.267 --> 00:16:29.917 This is that much more we have to make up as educators, right? 00:16:29.917 --> 00:16:31.417 You got to, we have to try to figure it out. 00:16:31.847 --> 00:16:36.427 Eli Davis: So, so, so real quick, so if I had my students listen to this 00:16:37.137 --> 00:16:37.517 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:16:37.707 --> 00:16:46.517 Eli Davis: now, explain to them generative why are you using generative AI versus just using AI? 00:16:48.187 --> 00:16:49.457 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Great question. 00:16:49.457 --> 00:16:49.807 Yeah. 00:16:49.807 --> 00:16:54.627 So, as we were talking earlier, I don't think people always. 00:16:55.802 --> 00:16:58.912 Connect the dots that AI has been around. 00:16:59.092 --> 00:17:01.072 We've been using if you use Alexa. 00:17:01.562 --> 00:17:02.142 What's the other one? 00:17:02.142 --> 00:17:03.262 Hey, Google. 00:17:03.262 --> 00:17:07.670 Yep, it just came on because I said, Hey, Google. 00:17:07.670 --> 00:17:10.980 Grammarly some of these writing tools that people use. 00:17:11.600 --> 00:17:15.540 They're all they're embedded in different parts of our lives and our worlds already, right? 00:17:15.990 --> 00:17:18.380 There's some Canva is another one. 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:19.460 Yep, absolutely. 00:17:19.800 --> 00:17:24.420 So it's there and we've been using, and that's artificial intelligence, right? 00:17:24.760 --> 00:17:34.000 So when we think of generative AI, and I like to, I think most of the times when people are saying AI, they're referring to generative AI, but we don't always say that. 00:17:34.810 --> 00:17:38.850 And generative AI is really, in a nutshell, is helping you generate content. 00:17:39.190 --> 00:17:44.470 So we say generative AI is generating, maybe it's images, maybe it's content, you know, text. 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:47.670 It could be a whole bunch of different, there's some cool stuff you can do in chat. 00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:52.530 GPT is just a tool, just a large LLM that helps you generate some of the content 00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:54.120 Eli Davis: For now. 00:17:54.420 --> 00:17:55.470 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: or now, oh yeah, there's 00:17:55.570 --> 00:17:55.980 Eli Davis: now. 00:17:56.010 --> 00:17:56.340 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Man. 00:17:56.340 --> 00:17:57.300 It's stuff popping off. 00:17:57.300 --> 00:17:57.600 You hear 00:17:57.810 --> 00:17:58.160 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:17:58.170 --> 00:17:58.410 For 00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:01.110 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: and you think, you know, like I'm researching this stuff. 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:08.360 And it's just so much right and so you can easily get overwhelmed with it. 00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:14.040 But my thing is, I don't want because of the digital divide. 00:18:14.090 --> 00:18:16.000 I don't want people to be left behind. 00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:18.690 I feel like people are already behind the eight ball a little bit. 00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:18.940 Right. 00:18:18.940 --> 00:18:30.380 And so one of the things I want to be intentional about and I am intentional about with my students when I whenever I have the opportunity to integrate AI and explain AI and just get people started on it. 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.030 Like you don't have to master it, but I need for you to just start. 00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:34.020 Eli Davis: Just to use it. 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:35.810 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Just to use it, right? 00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:42.250 Eli Davis: I'm very concerned about the digital divide being in Alabama and teaching in Birmingham. 00:18:43.060 --> 00:18:48.470 I know that plenty of the students don't have access to wifi. 00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:59.815 Plenty of the students don't have access to cell phones and hardly n none of them have been using or have been introduced to artificial intelligence. 00:19:00.115 --> 00:19:04.865 And if they are using it, they're using you know, Snapchat, 00:19:05.300 --> 00:19:10.910 Snapchat's um, and which I don't, which I hear is not bad to be honest, but. 00:19:11.540 --> 00:19:14.690 You know, it is based off of social media. 00:19:15.020 --> 00:19:24.940 And my concern, how I started to get into artificial intelligence deeply is because of that digital divide and knowing that for the first time, 00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:36.600 for the first time, African American people have been able to be at the precipice of something so transformative. 00:19:37.555 --> 00:19:37.925 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:19:38.435 --> 00:19:38.805 Yeah. 00:19:38.835 --> 00:19:39.195 Yeah. 00:19:39.215 --> 00:19:39.705 That part. 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:40.320 Eli Davis: Yep. 00:19:40.690 --> 00:19:41.070 Yep. 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:52.280 We have always been you know, whether or not it was some anti literacy law or whether it's not something that, that constrained us to be able to push forward or to be introduced. 00:19:52.865 --> 00:19:56.205 Or to have had the opportunity to navigate it. 00:19:56.535 --> 00:20:10.465 This is, this to me is one of the first times in which many of us have the ability to be at the ground level of some and also have the wits about ourselves. 00:20:10.895 --> 00:20:17.365 And, you know, the mental stability the fortitude to be able to learn and to. 00:20:17.815 --> 00:20:19.535 Navigate and operate. 00:20:19.795 --> 00:20:22.015 I think that's one of that's to me. 00:20:22.295 --> 00:20:29.015 That is like one of the crucial components that I try to tell everybody. 00:20:29.890 --> 00:20:36.160 Everybody like, Hey, y'all, you know, there's going to, there's probably going to be a lot of money to be made. 00:20:37.030 --> 00:20:44.260 There is going to be the, there's going to be a I know that they are going to be some kind of closings of positions and it's going to take this and do this. 00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:45.980 However. 00:20:46.515 --> 00:21:00.165 They're going to also be some openings and if you don't have the, if you don't have the the skills or you haven't been navigating and operating and using it, then those opportunities won't be for you. 00:21:01.175 --> 00:21:01.635 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:21:01.645 --> 00:21:12.845 I mean, if you think about it, everything that is happening in our K through 12 System where everything they're teaching these kids is going to be pretty much obsolete before they're done. 00:21:13.365 --> 00:21:18.405 They're not integrating AI into like, I'm telling Caleb, listen, I want you to use a tool. 00:21:18.405 --> 00:21:19.345 Let me show you how to use it. 00:21:19.355 --> 00:21:21.935 No, you can't copy and paste because it could be hallucinating. 00:21:21.945 --> 00:21:29.325 Like I'm trying to teach him this stuff now because understanding when he gets out there, I think he's, this is going to be expected for you to know. 00:21:29.325 --> 00:21:31.935 And they're not integrating this stuff into the school system. 00:21:31.975 --> 00:21:33.845 They're not integrating it into the curriculum. 00:21:33.885 --> 00:21:39.065 Like, Some of the publishers may start some and I've noticed some publishers are starting. 00:21:39.445 --> 00:21:43.355 That's if you're using publishers content, but I think as an educator. 00:21:43.965 --> 00:21:52.175 It's incumbent upon us to, especially folks like us who know that this is this, what was the fifth revolution. 00:21:52.425 --> 00:21:52.665 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:21:53.445 --> 00:22:00.065 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: We know that this is happening is incumbent upon us to, to at least make our learners aware of it. 00:22:00.225 --> 00:22:00.655 Right. 00:22:01.005 --> 00:22:06.235 Finding because it's going to be it's going to infiltrate every industry, every job, like everything. 00:22:06.265 --> 00:22:06.675 Right. 00:22:07.495 --> 00:22:11.435 And so very intentional about that because yeah. 00:22:12.555 --> 00:22:23.405 I recognize the, to your point, everything you just said, I want every student that comes across my path, every person that I have contact with to understand like, well, yeah, she said this is what she was talking about. 00:22:23.405 --> 00:22:26.865 So they won't say nobody told me it, but it'll be up to you. 00:22:26.865 --> 00:22:27.895 I can give you the tools. 00:22:27.905 --> 00:22:33.175 I only have you for a short amount of time, but I'll give you the tools and resources and the research. 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.730 I'll give it all to you because I want you better. 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:37.990 That's why I'm in this game, right? 00:22:38.030 --> 00:22:39.500 I want people better when they leave me. 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:50.270 And so I think it's incumbent upon us to figure out ways to introduce it even if you can't go into, you know, deep learning because you only have students for a certain amount of time. 00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:54.710 But I think it's so important because if not, we're going to continue to fall further and further behind. 00:22:54.835 --> 00:22:55.255 Eli Davis: Right. 00:22:55.715 --> 00:22:56.035 Yeah. 00:22:56.075 --> 00:22:56.895 And that's true. 00:22:56.935 --> 00:23:02.375 And we think about this educational gap is going to be a chasm. 00:23:03.765 --> 00:23:05.255 It's going to be a chasm. 00:23:06.005 --> 00:23:16.590 One of the things that I, when I use artificial intelligence, I or general artificial intelligence large language models, specifically GPT or CLAWD. 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:20.260 I use those I use them as research. 00:23:20.540 --> 00:23:21.380 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Absolutely. 00:23:21.810 --> 00:23:22.190 Have you used perplexity? 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.150 Perplexity is really good with 00:23:24.510 --> 00:23:28.450 Eli Davis: You know what, I, you know, I don't know why I don't use Perpex, blah, blah, blah. 00:23:28.670 --> 00:23:29.480 I can't even say it. 00:23:33.775 --> 00:23:41.865 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: You will like it because it I've used cloud tragedy and I think they all have their special sauce right. 00:23:43.115 --> 00:23:46.915 But I found being a researcher being someone I always like to have the backup, 00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:48.160 People. 00:23:49.055 --> 00:23:51.175 First of all, it gives you credibility as well. 00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:58.355 And so, you know, I might not, you might not be able to grasp it all, but I'm going to give you research and the references so you can bag into it and do it on your own. 00:23:58.485 --> 00:24:04.375 And I found perplexity has been really good for me and helpful in giving you the resources right away 00:24:04.795 --> 00:24:05.075 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:24:05.115 --> 00:24:05.355 Yeah. 00:24:05.845 --> 00:24:06.145 Yeah. 00:24:06.145 --> 00:24:06.375 Yeah. 00:24:06.375 --> 00:24:06.675 Yeah. 00:24:06.695 --> 00:24:10.365 I, you know, do you use the pay versus or do you use the non pay versions? 00:24:10.610 --> 00:24:14.060 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I use the paid version of chat GPT. 00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:21.410 I'm, I haven't switched over to the pay version of perplexity yet, but even without the pay version is fire. 00:24:21.705 --> 00:24:22.055 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:24:22.055 --> 00:24:23.125 Oh, I might have to try that out. 00:24:23.345 --> 00:24:27.475 So with ChatGPT, what about the new feature, the Canvas feature? 00:24:28.125 --> 00:24:29.125 Have you used that one yet? 00:24:29.135 --> 00:24:30.805 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: No, I have not used that one yet. 00:24:30.805 --> 00:24:31.765 I've read about it. 00:24:31.865 --> 00:24:33.685 But I'm going to probably try to dig in. 00:24:33.695 --> 00:24:37.495 I've been, you know what this last month, I'm gonna tell you something about October. 00:24:38.165 --> 00:24:39.675 It has been insane. 00:24:40.205 --> 00:24:47.235 And usually, I usually try to take, like, I'll read and stuff, but I, with ChatGPT for me, I have to play around with it and do, you know, get in there and do this stuff, right? 00:24:47.235 --> 00:24:48.915 And I haven't had the time. 00:24:49.205 --> 00:24:51.165 It seems like October was just, this has been nice. 00:24:51.385 --> 00:24:52.125 Good stuff. 00:24:52.195 --> 00:24:52.925 Great stuff. 00:24:53.545 --> 00:24:57.215 So yeah, I've read about that, but I have not been able to dig in like I want to yet 00:24:57.620 --> 00:24:57.890 Eli Davis: it, 00:24:58.045 --> 00:24:59.485 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: to think intelligently about it. 00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:02.020 Eli Davis: It has its limitations to me because I think that. 00:25:02.520 --> 00:25:10.090 It's, I like to go on and on, you know, I'm sitting up there reading for hours, you know, just diving deeper and deeper into 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:10.940 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Deeper and deep. 00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:11.820 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:25:12.020 --> 00:25:16.430 And but what the canvas does is you can edit inside of it. 00:25:17.690 --> 00:25:18.315 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, that's dope. 00:25:18.315 --> 00:25:18.440 That's dope. 00:25:19.350 --> 00:25:19.860 That's dope 00:25:20.265 --> 00:25:21.965 Eli Davis: Yeah, you can edit. 00:25:22.285 --> 00:25:23.255 You can just edit. 00:25:23.585 --> 00:25:32.545 I mean, the only you can edit you can you can go into and create a highlight a sentence and say, I don't like how this sentence is worded. 00:25:32.595 --> 00:25:34.875 And how about we were to sentence like this? 00:25:35.165 --> 00:25:36.685 And it just one sentence. 00:25:38.390 --> 00:25:38.750 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: love. 00:25:38.780 --> 00:25:39.110 Oh yeah. 00:25:39.110 --> 00:25:40.370 I'm definitely be dating into that. 00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:45.050 This, I think this weekend coming up, I have some free time, but it's been, Ooh, it's been nonstop. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.180 I'm like, and you gotta have the time. 00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:48.770 'cause to your point, you just start. 00:25:49.695 --> 00:25:50.125 Eli Davis: hours 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:51.100 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: not like I, okay. 00:25:51.100 --> 00:25:52.030 I'm just do a little bit. 00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:57.060 If, when you like us, when your brains function like ours, yeah. 00:25:57.060 --> 00:26:00.690 You gotta have that block of . You gotta have that block of time so you can get in the flow 00:26:01.190 --> 00:26:01.330 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:26:01.355 --> 00:26:01.925 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: flow with it, 00:26:02.310 --> 00:26:02.640 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:03.350 Do you want to flow with it? 00:26:03.530 --> 00:26:04.320 So, all right. 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:08.740 So, all right, we listen, let's do another question. 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:09.980 All right. 00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:21.820 So how can educators recognize and mitigate the biases that artificial intelligence has and I'm just going to say this, I'm going to say my Peace. 00:26:22.535 --> 00:26:23.110 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Say your piece. 00:26:23.775 --> 00:26:27.705 Eli Davis: Because you know, you know, oh, me and they also went to high school together too. 00:26:29.905 --> 00:26:32.155 so, so, so, so, oh, creek. 00:26:32.155 --> 00:26:38.165 So, they know that we, you know, we had walk ins and walk outs and, you know, we were fighting for our rights and 00:26:38.210 --> 00:26:39.130 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: escorting us to the bus. 00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:39.310 You 00:26:39.405 --> 00:26:39.945 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:26:40.025 --> 00:26:40.355 Yes. 00:26:40.365 --> 00:26:40.915 So, you know, 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:41.650 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: in the nineties. 00:26:41.690 --> 00:26:44.030 This wasn't like it was in the sixties. 00:26:44.030 --> 00:26:45.190 Y'all whoever listening. 00:26:45.205 --> 00:26:45.515 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:26:45.735 --> 00:27:00.085 So, so, so, um, what I'm very keen I'm very keen of the biases like when I want to write and I want to write critically or when I want to, when I wanted to engage on a critical level, I have to do so much digging. 00:27:00.530 --> 00:27:12.280 You know, or when it's pumped or something out and it will call black people individuals like black individuals or, you know, and it's like, okay yeah don't call black people individuals just call them black people, 00:27:12.510 --> 00:27:12.890 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Right, 00:27:13.330 --> 00:27:14.000 Eli Davis: you know what I mean? 00:27:14.060 --> 00:27:19.380 Because I'm writing this as a black man, I would never say black individuals. 00:27:19.630 --> 00:27:19.850 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: right. 00:27:19.850 --> 00:27:21.595 There 00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:24.600 Eli Davis: You know, I have to type in that I'm a black man. 00:27:24.910 --> 00:27:30.180 I have to type in, I even type in saying I was influenced by the 90s hip hop culture. 00:27:31.270 --> 00:27:31.630 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: go. 00:27:31.860 --> 00:27:32.890 Yes, absolutely. 00:27:33.020 --> 00:27:33.830 Absolutely. 00:27:33.860 --> 00:27:34.430 Your role. 00:27:34.450 --> 00:27:36.130 That's your role that you telling the. 00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:37.940 The large language model. 00:27:38.010 --> 00:27:41.070 This is my role and like this is the role I want you to speak from. 00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:44.420 I'm an educator influenced by the hip hop, you know, era, whatever. 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.600 Then you're going to get more precise output 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:48.850 Eli Davis: Because they don't know you. 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:50.070 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: It don't know you. 00:27:50.450 --> 00:27:50.970 It don't know you. 00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:52.240 It don't get to know you. 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:52.940 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.540 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: As you start to use it more, but yeah, it doesn't know. 00:27:55.540 --> 00:27:59.690 So you have to let it know you in the ways that you, what you want. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.970 And so that the output is more precise to what you're 00:28:03.210 --> 00:28:04.170 Eli Davis: Real quick sidebar. 00:28:04.470 --> 00:28:06.050 With chat GPT's memory. 00:28:07.370 --> 00:28:09.150 Have you ever went to capacity on memory? 00:28:10.120 --> 00:28:10.570 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: No, 00:28:12.300 --> 00:28:13.430 Eli Davis: I go to capacity all the 00:28:13.580 --> 00:28:14.780 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I got the pay version. 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:16.110 Eli Davis: I got to pay a version. 00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:17.750 I go to the capacity all the time. 00:28:17.830 --> 00:28:18.700 All the 00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:22.190 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: you mean when you can't yeah, for a day, for your day, your days. 00:28:22.270 --> 00:28:23.160 Yeah, I've done that a couple times. 00:28:23.260 --> 00:28:23.590 No. 00:28:24.050 --> 00:28:25.850 Eli Davis: I'm talking about memory, 00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:27.340 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, no, I ain't done that yet. 00:28:27.470 --> 00:28:27.650 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:28:27.650 --> 00:28:30.110 I have to go in there often to go into the memory and like 00:28:30.300 --> 00:28:31.150 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: And delete stuff? 00:28:31.310 --> 00:28:31.430 Eli Davis: stuff. 00:28:31.430 --> 00:28:31.790 Yeah. 00:28:31.795 --> 00:28:32.055 Uhhuh, 00:28:32.270 --> 00:28:32.970 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, no, I ain't did 00:28:32.995 --> 00:28:38.780 Eli Davis: so, so I think what, first of all what I call it I call it, it's gonna be name brand intelligence. 00:28:38.810 --> 00:28:42.200 'cause it's gonna be like the Gucci, it is gonna be like the Louis Vuitton. 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:46.820 You gonna have, it's gonna be, it's going to be name, brand, name brand intelligence. 00:28:46.820 --> 00:28:48.440 It is gonna be which one you can pay for. 00:28:48.490 --> 00:28:48.990 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yep. 00:28:49.085 --> 00:28:49.895 Eli Davis: You know what I mean? 00:28:49.945 --> 00:28:50.175 Because 00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:51.040 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: That's a great point. 00:28:51.265 --> 00:28:52.035 Eli Davis: yeah. 00:28:52.035 --> 00:28:57.075 Yes. 00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:58.300 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: pay for that? 00:28:58.300 --> 00:29:02.450 I mean, especially if you're talking, we're talking about how many models, we're talking about threes. 00:29:02.800 --> 00:29:05.220 I mean, specifically now, but it's like a ton of them, right? 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:08.080 So if you're paying for all of those, that's, yeah. 00:29:08.080 --> 00:29:09.965 Yep. 00:29:10.145 --> 00:29:11.935 Eli Davis: Brandon tells us there's not going to be a lot of people. 00:29:11.935 --> 00:29:13.335 That's going to be at Walmart. 00:29:15.425 --> 00:29:18.285 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Make it and do what it's going to do to you can go to tarjay so 00:29:18.305 --> 00:29:18.665 Eli Davis: Yep. 00:29:18.965 --> 00:29:19.745 You know what I mean? 00:29:20.245 --> 00:29:25.405 And then target is going to be as high as, you know, the majority of us get, you know what I'm saying? 00:29:25.735 --> 00:29:33.785 You know, just imagine that the artificial intelligence or the, that the the power in which a government you know what I'm saying? 00:29:33.815 --> 00:29:38.165 I, a military, you know, we're not playing with the same things. 00:29:38.875 --> 00:29:39.985 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, absolutely not. 00:29:39.985 --> 00:29:40.945 Absolutely not. 00:29:41.315 --> 00:29:41.835 Eli Davis: Not at all. 00:29:42.065 --> 00:29:43.755 But okay, so let's go back to the bias. 00:29:44.065 --> 00:29:45.025 The bias question. 00:29:45.365 --> 00:29:46.775 So, so how do you feel? 00:29:46.775 --> 00:29:48.885 Like we could, we can, mitigate some of these biases 00:29:49.365 --> 00:30:00.425 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah, I think it has to be twofold right I think the educators have a role, and then I think the institutions have a role, right so we because educators can only do some, they have control of their. 00:30:00.905 --> 00:30:06.185 You know, their classrooms and the students, but some of this needs to take, you have to have a different level. 00:30:06.195 --> 00:30:07.665 It has to be institution wide. 00:30:07.715 --> 00:30:17.045 And so I think from the educator standpoint, some of the things we talked about understanding that how the biases sink in are infiltrated into AI and understanding that. 00:30:18.170 --> 00:30:22.410 You know, the large language models grab their data from what's been out there on the Internet. 00:30:22.410 --> 00:30:27.320 And that stuff is biased because it's like, you know, the people were putting the stuff in and the programmers. 00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:35.240 We all have biases and it seeps into it's going to seep into the output of your the whatever learned large language model that you're using. 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:39.340 So understanding that up front and knowing that can happen, right? 00:30:39.340 --> 00:30:43.570 So then if you know it can happen, you know what to look for to your point where you were saying earlier, you're looking for. 00:30:43.570 --> 00:30:43.740 Okay. 00:30:44.090 --> 00:30:48.030 The biases that are that are built in that we don't sometimes we sometimes overlook it. 00:30:48.570 --> 00:30:52.130 I think also evaluating the output critically. 00:30:52.425 --> 00:30:53.485 So what does that look like? 00:30:53.495 --> 00:30:58.135 That may look like getting the sources that they, that AI pulled it from. 00:30:58.925 --> 00:31:00.135 Eli Davis: or black sources. 00:31:00.365 --> 00:31:00.785 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yeah. 00:31:01.015 --> 00:31:01.955 I mean, like, for real, you 00:31:02.165 --> 00:31:07.375 Not easy and people think, oh, AI is going to do this, but when you do it right, you still got to do some work. 00:31:07.585 --> 00:31:14.375 You still have to, you know, it's not like, okay, you could copy and paste stuff, but you run the risk of really embarrassing yourself. 00:31:14.575 --> 00:31:16.915 Eli Davis: Yeah, 00:31:17.100 --> 00:31:17.770 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: and contrasting. 00:31:17.770 --> 00:31:23.090 Okay, I said this is I think that I think also teaching the students AI literacy, which we talked about. 00:31:23.270 --> 00:31:35.360 And I also think being intentional about our professional development and training on AI and diversifying the content in which we are, and showing people this stuff exists. 00:31:35.510 --> 00:31:40.170 So if we talk about biases built into this, show them, okay, this is, there's some studies out here. 00:31:40.490 --> 00:31:52.650 To that I can get my hands on later that shows how you type in an engineer is going to give you, you know, even down to now, it's going to give you a lighter complected per person. 00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:53.510 . Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:31:53.565 --> 00:32:00.535 . Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Or if you put in social worker, it's going to give you, like, it's very, the internet and the data in the internet is it's biased. 00:32:00.625 --> 00:32:02.105 And so we have to be cognizant of that. 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:03.100 To be cognizant of 00:32:03.235 --> 00:32:04.855 Eli Davis: it's just like the country. 00:32:05.750 --> 00:32:06.770 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Bam, drop mic. 00:32:07.190 --> 00:32:07.530 Yes, 00:32:07.745 --> 00:32:08.165 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:32:08.165 --> 00:32:08.675 Yeah. 00:32:08.675 --> 00:32:09.215 You know what I mean? 00:32:09.215 --> 00:32:10.865 And everybody else, you know what I mean? 00:32:10.865 --> 00:32:12.605 Because it was trained on human data, 00:32:12.940 --> 00:32:15.860 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Human data, and we're human, so the biases are going to seep in. 00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:21.790 So that, I think, from my experience, I don't think people really get that. 00:32:21.790 --> 00:32:27.730 I know when I spoke a couple weeks ago and I shared that across the room, it was this aha moment. 00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:31.080 People were like, oh, you know, their faces. 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.880 Oh, I never thought about like that. 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.540 I'm like, yeah, that stuff is, you know, 00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:35.800 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:32:35.860 --> 00:32:36.840 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: So I definitely think so. 00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:39.120 That's I think for what educators can do. 00:32:39.510 --> 00:32:49.960 I think from the institution, I think, again, promoting development, professional and professional development and AI being very intentional about that. 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.760 It has to be ongoing. 00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:52.950 It can't be a one and done 00:32:53.320 --> 00:32:54.440 . Is growing and growing. 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.400 So if you do one and done by the end of the year you is obsolete. 00:32:58.540 --> 00:32:59.980 It could be obsolete, right? 00:33:00.225 --> 00:33:00.645 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:33:00.910 --> 00:33:06.890 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: So being intentional about a plan to continue training and having offerings available. 00:33:07.310 --> 00:33:12.470 Again, establishing some type of ethical AI use policy. 00:33:12.815 --> 00:33:14.455 What does that look like for your institution? 00:33:14.455 --> 00:33:19.505 I think that is something there are some schools and some organizations that are doing that. 00:33:20.055 --> 00:33:22.115 And people are starting, I guess, to get on that. 00:33:22.145 --> 00:33:29.085 I think I think allowing space for educators and learners. 00:33:29.805 --> 00:33:32.225 To just dabble in it, do it. 00:33:32.625 --> 00:33:35.155 I think that is one of the best ways to learn. 00:33:35.155 --> 00:33:36.075 You can ask questions. 00:33:36.075 --> 00:33:37.155 You can figure out, man. 00:33:37.525 --> 00:33:48.805 Cause one thing I've learned about just the little I do know, Is that one of the things that promotes, I believe, AI promotes, Generative AI more specifically promotes, Is critical thinking. 00:33:48.965 --> 00:33:50.255 Cause you gotta know how to prompt. 00:33:50.580 --> 00:33:51.120 Eli Davis: Yes. 00:33:51.150 --> 00:33:51.180 Uhhuh. 00:33:51.780 --> 00:33:52.110 Yep. 00:33:52.575 --> 00:33:54.495 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: You gotta know how to ask them questions, right? 00:33:54.815 --> 00:33:57.035 Eli Davis: yeah, that goes into inquiry based learning, 00:33:57.250 --> 00:33:58.610 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yes, absolutely. 00:33:58.615 --> 00:33:58.935 Eli Davis: I mean? 00:33:58.955 --> 00:33:59.185 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Get what I'm saying? 00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:00.650 Eli Davis: yes. 00:34:01.515 --> 00:34:04.045 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: and that's what the world, that's what these organizations want. 00:34:04.055 --> 00:34:06.815 They want people who can critically think. 00:34:06.825 --> 00:34:08.515 They can train you on the technical stuff. 00:34:09.065 --> 00:34:17.275 Can you, but can you come in the door and look at a problem, think through all the different scenarios, come up with your own way of like, I probably would handle it like this or that. 00:34:17.295 --> 00:34:20.015 And then bring it back to me as your manager and say, here's some ideas. 00:34:20.015 --> 00:34:20.595 What do you think? 00:34:21.065 --> 00:34:22.275 That's what they're looking for. 00:34:22.355 --> 00:34:22.675 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:34:22.975 --> 00:34:29.575 So, so, one of, one of my favorite people, educators, critical theorists, Paulo Freire, right? 00:34:29.835 --> 00:34:32.985 Paulo Freire said, has this concept, he has two concepts. 00:34:32.985 --> 00:34:35.535 He has the banking model and the problem posing model. 00:34:35.855 --> 00:34:36.215 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Okay. 00:34:36.540 --> 00:34:40.410 Eli Davis: For a very long time, we have been in the banking model. 00:34:40.640 --> 00:34:48.010 We have been just banking information and when you need to do an assessment, now you do, you present your output. 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:52.330 What he suggests is what you're talking about is problem posing. 00:34:53.220 --> 00:34:54.440 Get a problem. 00:34:54.680 --> 00:35:10.320 Pose the problem and figure out how to fix the problem, what we need to do, where's the problem coming from, you know, really dive into understanding You know, the, what he call contentization, right? 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.180 The critical consciousness of the whole aspect of it. 00:35:13.180 --> 00:35:13.950 Like, you know, 00:35:14.255 --> 00:35:14.875 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I love that. 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.120 Eli Davis: like, how can we be critical? 00:35:17.490 --> 00:35:19.540 You know, we don't have to be nasty to. 00:35:19.955 --> 00:35:37.765 Critical is not to be nasty, you know, and I think that with the help of artificial intelligence, if you do it right, but that's just like everything else I look at it as it's going to, is it's going to give you. 00:35:38.695 --> 00:35:39.785 What you put in it, 00:35:40.015 --> 00:35:40.445 Right? 00:35:40.955 --> 00:35:55.335 Like, like if I don't know who, um, Sonia Sanchez is, and I'm trying to figure out something, it's not going to be, it's not just going to just like give me some Sonia Sanchez type stuff. 00:35:55.905 --> 00:35:56.265 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Right. 00:35:56.515 --> 00:35:57.305 Eli Davis: You know what I mean? 00:35:57.315 --> 00:36:03.435 It's going to give you, like, whoever, you know, whoever you put in there, if you put in Eli Davis, it's going to give you Eli Davis and it ain't going to be Sonya 00:36:03.997 --> 00:36:04.730 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: right. 00:36:04.730 --> 00:36:06.195 You're right. 00:36:08.255 --> 00:36:08.815 Right. 00:36:09.035 --> 00:36:09.845 Eli Davis: You know what I'm saying? 00:36:09.865 --> 00:36:13.755 So, so, I find that to be you know, I've learned so much using it. 00:36:14.565 --> 00:36:15.535 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Oh, yeah. 00:36:16.035 --> 00:36:17.525 It's definitely a game changer. 00:36:18.525 --> 00:36:18.875 Eli Davis: I've 00:36:19.145 --> 00:36:21.355 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: you can easily get overwhelmed. 00:36:21.615 --> 00:36:29.755 And so that's why I think some people, I think some people haven't tried it because it is overwhelming. 00:36:29.755 --> 00:36:48.100 If you look at the news and you look at LinkedIn, you look at all these, you know, it's Chat GPT chat GP or generative AI and it's all these different terms all these different tools and people are just like, and that's why I encourage people just try you can't break the tool, just try and even in my classes, I give them in literally in class. 00:36:48.650 --> 00:36:50.400 Here's the prompt I want you to use. 00:36:50.780 --> 00:36:59.970 And then I'll bring it up so you can see everybody's output pop up and you will have everybody had the same problem like you see how different this is let's compare and contrast. 00:37:00.120 --> 00:37:01.380 In class, real time. 00:37:01.615 --> 00:37:02.225 Eli Davis: Yes, 00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:05.200 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: people can see, oh wow, this is, yeah, okay 00:37:05.505 --> 00:37:19.535 Eli Davis: or they also can see like some of my students that if you put in the prompt, if you highlight my question and you put it into a very similar GPT or a very similar large language model, it's going to spit out. 00:37:19.995 --> 00:37:30.435 Almost the same thing, you know what I mean, if it's going to talk about biases, it's not going to tell me what kind of biases it's going to bring up biases. 00:37:30.875 --> 00:37:38.745 So you got a whole bunch of people that's turning into something that just says my biases are such but nobody's telling me what biases they're talking about. 00:37:41.100 --> 00:37:41.920 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Red flag. 00:37:42.515 --> 00:37:43.285 Eli Davis: Red flag. 00:37:43.490 --> 00:37:53.850 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: But the other piece of it too, though, and where educators are, especially in higher ed, is, and this is, I'm gonna put a pin in that one spot, you know, I get excited, my brain all over the place. 00:37:54.210 --> 00:37:59.600 The other thing we have to be cognizant of are these plagiarism tools don't always catch. 00:38:00.915 --> 00:38:02.415 Chat GP, they don't always catch it. 00:38:02.415 --> 00:38:08.055 And so what's happening, you have to be very careful before you accuse a student of plagiarizing something, right? 00:38:08.065 --> 00:38:08.705 Plagiarism. 00:38:09.265 --> 00:38:22.800 Eli Davis: That's a, that's another question though, is it plagiarism when Chat GPT is You know, it comes in and it's all originally generate information based off of your inquiry or your prompt. 00:38:23.370 --> 00:38:24.050 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: You know what? 00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:25.770 I don't know the answer to that. 00:38:25.780 --> 00:38:32.450 I'm still like, I feel like that is something education is going to have to grapple with. 00:38:32.490 --> 00:38:40.100 I think here's what I like and I encourage and I expect is that you are transparent about the fact that you use AI. 00:38:40.140 --> 00:38:41.920 Eli Davis: So, so, so do you cite? 00:38:42.365 --> 00:38:43.685 Open AI. 00:38:44.030 --> 00:38:44.830 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: That's where I'm. 00:38:45.465 --> 00:38:51.845 Eli Davis: My thing is, with that, I wonder how many people out here have had grammarly changed almost a whole paragraph. 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:53.110 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Come on, somebody. 00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:53.990 That's the 00:38:54.135 --> 00:38:54.845 Eli Davis: know what I mean? 00:38:54.875 --> 00:38:57.125 Then do you cite grammarly? 00:38:57.695 --> 00:38:58.815 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: That is a very good point. 00:38:58.905 --> 00:39:00.075 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:39:00.295 --> 00:39:08.215 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I think, you know, I feel like this is a really good place that we're in because it's forcing us to, to re evaluate how we're doing education. 00:39:08.425 --> 00:39:08.985 Right? 00:39:09.215 --> 00:39:10.875 I think we've gotten so complacent. 00:39:11.225 --> 00:39:14.595 We, educators, administrators, like the whole nine, right? 00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:19.410 We've gotten so complacent and then your product, meaning the students that you're producing for the workforce. 00:39:19.410 --> 00:39:25.790 That's why you have a disconnect with businesses saying schools aren't producing the students aren't ready to be in the workforce. 00:39:25.830 --> 00:39:26.900 You have that disconnect. 00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:28.940 And you were kind of sharing that a little bit. 00:39:29.230 --> 00:39:33.560 I feel like it's forcing us to go back to the drawing board and really look at. 00:39:33.865 --> 00:39:35.375 What's considered plagiarism now? 00:39:37.175 --> 00:39:37.755 Right? 00:39:38.555 --> 00:39:43.985 To your point, if you use, if you've ever used any tool like Grammarly and it helped you rewrite something, did you cite Grammarly? 00:39:44.785 --> 00:39:47.585 If you use AI and it helped you, did you cite? 00:39:48.075 --> 00:39:55.085 These are real conversations that, yeah we kind of got away with not having, but now we got to really circle the wagons and be like, 00:39:55.635 --> 00:39:56.375 How are we doing this? 00:39:56.605 --> 00:39:57.215 What are we doing? 00:39:58.235 --> 00:39:58.695 Moving forward. 00:39:58.705 --> 00:39:59.335 How are we doing this? 00:39:59.345 --> 00:40:00.295 Like for reals, right? 00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:00.810 Eli Davis: Yeah. 00:40:00.940 --> 00:40:04.390 So, so in respect of your time, I appreciate it. 00:40:04.390 --> 00:40:11.120 I think that was, that's a a nice way to go ahead and send it off because that, that gives everybody something to think about. 00:40:11.750 --> 00:40:12.170 All right. 00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:14.370 I would like to say thank you. 00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:18.480 Nay, Dr. Marlena or that's, 00:40:18.795 --> 00:40:18.865 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: It's a 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:21.420 Eli Davis: I have, I said, 00:40:22.095 --> 00:40:23.105 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I said it's a mouthful. 00:40:23.180 --> 00:40:24.347 Eli Davis: Yeah, I haven't you know, yeah. 00:40:25.007 --> 00:40:28.987 I, you know, when I talk and talk to her or about her, I always call her nay. 00:40:29.237 --> 00:40:30.587 So, you know what I mean, 00:40:30.907 --> 00:40:31.467 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: or bird. 00:40:31.467 --> 00:40:44.647 Yeah, I know You know Wesley was the only one that he used to call me bird consistently I miss him so much because he'd be like bird pick up the phone bird But yeah, that was you know neighbor or neighbor and you sometimes throw them together 00:40:49.237 --> 00:40:51.197 Never a dumb moment never a dumb moment 00:40:51.317 --> 00:40:52.237 Eli Davis: Yeah, I am. 00:40:52.267 --> 00:40:54.307 I am super proud of you. 00:40:54.367 --> 00:40:55.427 This is a pleasure. 00:40:55.687 --> 00:40:57.077 I have I've been in the South. 00:40:57.077 --> 00:40:58.077 Did I say pleasure? 00:40:58.702 --> 00:40:59.402 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: Yes, you did. 00:40:59.697 --> 00:41:00.457 Eli Davis: I sure do. 00:41:01.227 --> 00:41:02.057 And it came out too. 00:41:02.067 --> 00:41:02.757 It was clear. 00:41:02.872 --> 00:41:03.782 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: I mean, it was quick too. 00:41:03.832 --> 00:41:05.032 It just rolled on off. 00:41:05.532 --> 00:41:13.002 Eli Davis: This is, this has been a pleasure and I would like to thank you for being on my podcast AI with Eli. 00:41:13.212 --> 00:41:13.642 So 00:41:13.767 --> 00:41:14.147 Dr. Marlena Ward Dodds: love it. 00:41:14.157 --> 00:41:15.037 Anytime bro. 00:41:15.037 --> 00:41:15.597 Anytime.