Okay, welcome.
Darris McInnis, Dr. Darris.
McInnis.
I thought that rather than doing a formal introduction, I would share about, uh, my friendship with Darris.
And I say friendship in all sincerity.
Uh, Darris and I started teaching together at the Inspired Teaching Demonstration School.
I started there back in 2016, and I met Darius.
I was the first grade teacher.
And he was the kindergarten teacher and the rest is history.
We've been able to cross paths, uh, many ways and thoroughly enjoy it.
So, welcome Darris.
I would love if you could share about yourself, your journey into education, literacy and family engagement.
Sure.
Uh, Aaron, thank you for having me.
Um.
This is really surreal, almost.
I'm, I'm just so grateful to, to be here.
So I was in the military, and then after the military, I became a teacher, uh, by accident.
Uh, so I always tell people that like, it all happened by accident.
what I was leaving the Army.
Um, we were volunteering his schools in Petersburg and that's where I got, I found out about a fellowship with education pioneers.
Which was in New Orleans, and I was like, okay, well I like this volunteering, I'll do some more work in education.
I didn't think that it would be in teaching in New Orleans.
We were doing a turnaround for a charter school and I was reading a book to some of the kids who were coming in to register with their parents.
Their parents had to go physically in person to register the kids, and when I was reading a. it was there, there were a few kids in like the waiting area in front of me, and one of the parents thought I was a teacher and she brought like some documents up to me and was like, Hey, you know, my child's gonna be in your class.
And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold on.
I'm not one of the teachers.
She was like, oh, you are not, I thought you were from like, how well you were reading this book and you're like, the way that like, you know how to connect with kids.
And then it just, it, it sat with me for a while and I said, maybe this is, this is what I'm meant to, to do.
Like when I got out the army, I had no idea what I was gonna do with myself.
And then I finally inspired teaching program in DC and they paired me with, A pre-K four classroom.
So this is where I met Erin.
Uh, we were teaching in the same school.
she was in first grade at the time, and she was one of my mentors.
Um, and I was terror.
I was terrified.
Y'all terrified to do this.
, Could not think of, uh, anything more terrifying.
Even more terrifying than the army.
So if you're, if you're wondering, is it harder to lead soldiers or little kids?
It's the latter.
that's when I found education.
That's, that's, that's sort of my journey.
I, I loved it so much.
I stayed in that age group and taught, um, pre-K three and kindergarten.
and yeah, that's sort of my journey into literacy.
I love that.
Thanks Darris.
And I think teachers can always spot other teachers.
So the fact that someone within a school building came up to you and thought you were a teacher probably shows that that is.
Indeed what you were, were meant to be.
Um, so you mentioned your background is mostly in early childhood.
This podcast is gonna focus on K through two writing strategies and Darris.
You've worked in early childhood, so what are some of the developmental milestones for K through two in writing?
Sure.
So I'll first say for people who are listening, these are just milestones.
If your child is not doing all of these things by these grades, that's okay.
Doesn't mean that it that it should raise alarms, but, you know, it should kind of help us to think about like, what kids should be able to do by these ages.
So in kindergarten, they should be able to print their upper and their lowercase like letters.
Pretty legibly.
They should be able to write their name labels.
Some pictures with words or even like some phrases or like songs that they know they should be able to do either invented or phonetic spelling.
Based on their knowledge of the letter sounds, they should be able to begin.
Maybe like some simple sentences.
So like, I like dogs, right?
Like even before the, like, the explanation of why they should be able to start a sentence, they should know print directionality, right?
So left to right, top to bottom.
Especially if they read books a lot and often with their teachers with their friends or their families and they should be able to use pretty basic punctuation, right?
And so they should know that the capital letters start at the beginning of, a sentence they should know their periods are at the end of the sentence.
By first grade they should be able to write full sentences with correct.
And I say that in quotations, but correct grammar and punctuation.
So that's all respective based to or based on their language and the ways in which they speak and communicate.
So that's why I said the correcting quotes.
They should be able to spell comments.
That they see often.
They should be able to use different word endings, so like walk walks, walking, walked.
They should be able to write a short narrative or like an opinion piece, like why they like a book or why their toy is the favorite toy.
They should be able to begin sort of planning and revising with their teacher's support and also spaces between their words to maintain the legibility by second grade.
They should be able to write about a page or more, maybe about like their personal experiences or things that they're passionate about.
They should be able to use more complex sentence structures and some varied vocabulary.
You know, at that age they do like to play with some words that, that they know and that they hear.
They can organize their writing from beginning.
And middle and end with some clarity there.
They use their punctuation much more consistently at this age.
They're able to revise and edit with guidance, and then they can also begin to use source materials with informative writing.
I.
Thank you.
That's great.
I loved hearing you describe the punctuation.
It brought back memories to when I taught first grade, we taught you know, ellipsis the little dot but to help the student.
We said, it's saying, dun.
And I will never forget.
The students just had so much fun writing and incorporating that into their writing and saying dun.
As they were writing, so.
Punctuation can be fun too.
Just throwing it out there.
So you mostly talked about writing pencil to paper.
And you know, I know a lot of parents out there probably are wondering how important handwriting and pencil and paper based writing is, especially in today's digital environment.
So one, I am a big proponent of fine motor skill development.
Handwriting really does help to build that strength and control in in small hands.
So we're thinking about things like tracing, playing with Play-Doh, picking up small beads.
All of these things sort of help to to develop their fine motor skills.
Dexterity we want to think about things like tactile and spatial feedback, right?
And so the tactile and spatial feedback of traditional writing can really kind of enhance their memory and their fine motor skill development in ways that tablets almost always, they're not able to replicate all the time.
Even with the most fancy technology you know, the battery can die.
There can be a smudge on the screen, right?
These things can complicate that even though, you know, they can be effective with a sty.
But again, it's not always reliable.
There's also this sort of I think about, cognitive development in kids and how handwriting can improve their cognitive processes, like memory, attention, right.
Language processing.
And often, like I liken this to, and I ask adults, like, why do you take notes while you're learning a new thing?
Right?
Like, you're reteaching yourself this thing as you're writing, kids are doing the exact same thing.
Yeah, I know.
I, if I really wanna remember something, I will write it down by hand.
And I I know there's lots of softwares out there now that keep lists, but I still love writing out a. List and drawing the little boxes and checking off the boxes as I'm going through the list, there's something very satisfying about that too, so I'm glad to hear that.
You also mentioned in talking about the developmental milestones, invented spelling and phonetic spelling.
Can you explain that a little bit for teachers or families that may have never heard those terms?
Sure.
F phonetic spelling is, when kids are writing sounds excuse me, they're writing some letters.
The ways in which the letters sound to them invented spelling is similar.
But this occurs when kids write words like, based on just completely how they sound, right?
Before they know what the quote unquote correct spelling is.
So for example, if a child is to write special, let's say that they're saying, my birth.
They is special, they may write S-P-E-S-H-U-L.
Right?
That is literally how it sounds because if you think about the way that it sounds in your head, that CIA does not sound like shh.
Right?
Like in their heads or they may leave off an e for like in cake, right?
They may put KAK, right?
It's effective because what it does is it encourages kids to take risk when they're trying to make sense of the letter word connection, or excuse me the letter sound connections.
And it helps to sort of build their, know their knowledge and their confidence in writing.
And it really helps you to understand how deeply they understand, different sounds, different phone names and words.
And are they able to actually write that out?
Right.
Are they making that connection between the ways in which they sound in their head?
Because that's, I mean, that's where they're getting it from, right?
It's in, it's, you know, it's in their head and from their memory and writing it out.
And I think the challenge probably for families is not correcting the spelling then.
So I'll use your example of special.
I love that one.
Because.
CIAL is a very complex spelling that you really wouldn't get to until like an upper elementary grade, but you shouldn't prohibit your child from writing the word special and including it in, let's say, a birthday card or some other authentic writing just because they don't have access to the phonics at that point to be able to spell it.
So I, what I would say.
To parents is if your child spells something like special and looks at you and says, is this right?
Then you're kind of in a difficult spot, right?
So what I say to my daughter, for example, is.
Did you spell?
Did you write down all the sounds that you heard in that word?
And does it look right to you?
Then there's less pressure on you to go in and correct their spelling.
It's still affirming the approach that they took.
So I love that.
And speaking of authenticity, I gave the example of.
The birthday card.
Can you also, can you just explain what authentic writing means and how might families encourage authentic writing at home?
Sure.
So authentic writing is writing with, and.
And based on your truth, right, your culture, your habits, your home life what I think is great about it is one is the motivation, right?
The best way to motivate a young child to write and to write more is to make it meaningful and connect to their lives and interests.
Right?
And that authenticity really makes writing more engaging and relevant, right?
And then it also can increase their willingness to put.
Participate in it, right?
There's a real world connection that's happening there.
So when you're connecting this writing to real world things and purposes, it really empowers them to become more confident and effective communicators.
Particularly because I. You know, if they're helping you write a grocery list, right?
And then they see you take the list that they wrote and their writing, their spelling their font, their pressure on the paper, and you take that and you go shop, right?
Like, like imagine what that can do for their confidence.
One, they've gotten the opportunity to practice their writing, and then two, you're actually using it, right?
Like it's you know, it's, it is you know, authentic to them.
They can write some letters to pen pals.
They can create some comic strips.
They can make a sign for a school event.
You can label some high some household items, you know, around the home.
They can write thank you notes.
They can write apology notes.
They can label.
D different things around their room.
They can create a family story.
I mean, I could talk about this all day, right?
But they, but there's so much writing that happens or that could happen at home.
And I would just encourage folks to take advantage of those moments, right?
Write letters to people, to your teachers.
Help them create like a, you know, a wishlist for the holidays, right?
So many different ways to think about this, like this this element of authenticity.
I love that, and it's bringing back some of the print that, as we discussed earlier, is missing in kind of a digital age.
I, we, at my house received a catalog, like a physical catalog from Amazon.
A couple weeks ago, which really brought back a lot of nostalgia for me, of getting a Toys R Us catalog around the holiday times and inside of this physical catalog, even though, you know, Amazon is a digital is a website where you order things, there was a place with lines on it, child friendly lines to practice writing.
So just as you mentioned, I got pretty excited, you know, as a literacy nerd about this because it created.
An authentic opportunity for me with my kids to look at the catalog and write down our wishlist items and then, you know, kind of prioritize which ones are important to us.
So I love that.
And I would say too, in the community, as much as you can point out how people are writing in their everyday lives, that becomes authentic.
Two, I'll never forget.
My husband, when we went out to a restaurant one time, pointed out that the server was writing down what we were ordering as we were ordering our food.
And then when we saw our daughter playing at home, she got a little notebook.
She was playing restaurant and started taking our orders.
So there was like a clear, authentic connection between.
The world and her dramatic play that she was doing at home with
That's, that is clear authenticity.
And I haven't, I don't know the last time I've seen a catalog.
Right.
And I also think about too, like maybe if you received the.
Newspaper.
Right.
Or if you receive any other types of magazines or I love the idea of the mimicking of the writing process too.
I didn't even think about that.
That is, wow.
I it's happening all around us, Aaron,
Yes, it's fun.
Print is really making a comeback and I think it's because families, parents are remembering some of the things that they did.
When they were a kid and having some nostalgia for it, and then wanting to give that experience to their children.
So I think it's great.
So one thing that I'll give an example of a reading experience.
I was at a parent teacher conference and just like all of the families was explaining like, you should read to your child every night, or, you know, every day, that's something that teachers always recommend.
Her response to me was, well, in our culture we don't read as much what we tell a lot of stories.
And I felt a little stuck that I didn't have advice for her.
So similarly to writing, what recommendations or advice would you give to families who have a very strong oral telling oral storytelling culture, but maybe not as rich of a printed writing culture?
Yeah, I think for this one I think.
I love that you talked about how rich it is because I think it's, first, it's always important to empower folks, right?
And just to remind them that these oral histories and their oral communication and with storytelling, right?
Particularly for different folks in different.
Communities throughout the United States.
All of this is relevant.
And one thing I am a strong believer in is that these histories have to live somewhere, right?
Not just in our heads but it's important to write these things down.
So I think one is.
To sort of think about how do you bridge the gap?
So connect these oral storytelling traditions with writing by encouraging kids to write down their favorite stories, to create some new ones based on their family ties or their family.
Tales or recipes that have been passed down from generation to generation.
Like where do these things live?
I think it's also great to think about some prompts for storytelling, right?
Where you can use to help your kids developing their understanding of a sequence, right?
The beginning, the middle and end.
It's really a great way to help them think about like, how do they express.
Themselves, both through illustration and through writing of words.
I'm also a big fan of people who record their voice, right?
And then transcribe, right?
So that you can use the voice notes on your world for Apple users.
We have voice memo on your phone where you can record some family members.
Talking about their favorite memories how their family has migrated from one place to the next.
Different types of careers that, you know your elders have held their favorite memories and then transcribe them or write and response to those memories, right?
Or you can create some family books, right?
I know that there are some folks who are listening who have those old school, the books where it almost looks like the CD catalog where you have like the CDs in them.
I know some people have like pictures there where they may have some letters that are like, you know, that accompanied the pictures or maybe some writing.
Like for us, you know, for our generation when we had the Polaroids, and remember there's like the little white space at the bottom of the Polaroid where you can hand right there.
You can go get like a Polaroid camera, right.
Document some different.
Parts of their life where I've seen some families do that where I worked with a family in Philly where there was a woman who has this little book with some Polaroids, and for each of her daughter's birthdays, she had her daughter write down on the bottom of the Polaroid.
My first.
Birthday and then you could just see the progression of her writing from the time she was, well, well, not first, but I think it was like her, I think she started her third birthday up until the time when she had gotten to like fifth grade.
It's it's really beautiful.
I love that.
It reminds me also of something my daughter did.
They did self portraits.
So a drawing of their self similar to the photograph, and then write your name underneath.
And it really is fun to see, especially with really young kids in a very short amount of time.
Their ability to draw and write just transforms.
And it's hard to even remember like many things in childhood you know, where they started from point A to point B, and it's just fun to go back and look at.
So, thank you for sharing that.
And then, you know, we talked about oral storytelling, so what about families?
That just parents, let's say, that never have seen themselves as a writer, they never developed strong writing identities.
How can they, I mean, can anyone become a writer?
How can families inspire their children to develop a strong writing I identity if they don't have one themselves?
Yeah, I think the first is, the first thing is to give yourself some grace, right?
Especially if you are a millennial parent you know, you've had to navigate many different changes throughout your life from going from learning how to write cursive, right?
Which a lot of school districts have eliminated at this point and to learning how to use.
Netscape, right.
And then the digital.com boom with a OL and then back when Facebook was only for people in college and then we had MySpace, and then we have Instagram and like the world has changed so much.
So much and you've had to adapt, right?
Give yourself some grace.
There are some opportunities where you have written and then there's opportunities where you've had to learn how to do this with your fingers via text, and even talk to a text, right?
That's the most important part.
The second is to decide that you want to become a writer and that you already are one, right?
I mean, we do it all the time.
Like whether it's through text message, through emails through job resumes, right?
Through, through writing a cover letter you write all the time.
And I think being very authentic about that with yourself and saying to your child, you know, I write.
All the time.
Very often this is the first opportunity that people have to engage with you.
It's not even actually talking to you, but engaging with your work.
So as you're trying to influence them to become more frequent writer more frequent writers, I think seeing yourself first as a person who writes.
Often, albeit it may be digitally it could be practicing writing out a to-do list that you have for work.
It can be writing out a grocery list.
It can be sort of like previewing an email that like you want to send on paper, right?
Writing alongside your child.
And as they, and let's say they have some homework to do where they have to write sit down and do some writing with them.
Take those opportunities where, you know, I know, you know, we live in a world where time seems so scarce and it just gets away from us and we don't have a lot of time for those very authentic bonding moments.
I think that the, that families like I, five minutes, right?
Like five minutes of like write a letter to your child.
I've met a family in Philly where the mom, she she works maybe four.
Four part-time jobs and she does like some deliveries from Amazon.
She writes a letter and she leaves it by her daughter's her nightstand.
And then her daughter responds and she writes a letter back to her mom and leaves it on her nightstand.
And so they've been exchanging letters for I think 17 months now.
And it's a really fun practice where the child can see themself as a writer, and the mom can see herself as a writer too.
So I would just urge you to get.
Creative with those different types of moments.
And again, give yourself some grace.
Okay.
Even if you miss a day or two, that's okay.
I think just being intentional about wanting to start that process not just for yourself but also for your child.
It really is a, a. Skill that I think is going away that kids can benefit from again, from their fine motor skills for really their cognitive development and also for their confidence.
It's it's a really great skill to build that way.
I love that.
I love the the start small and acknowledge the writing that you're already doing.
You know, emails.
Lists, things like that.
You're already a writer even if you don't recognize it.
And if you do wanna become a writer, somebody who writes more than that to set aside time for it, which you said, which you say scares.
I. Have a book to recommend if anyone's interested in becoming a writer.
I read this book while I was writing my dissertation.
It's called How to Write A Lot.
We can link that in the show notes.
And the biggest takeaway I had from that book was to become a writer.
You need to set time.
For writing, and that can be, you know, 30 minutes or an hour.
But you schedule that time for yourself and do not let something else, don't let somebody book that appointment.
If you've made that appointment with yourself to write, don't let somebody else book that time.
And the example given in the book was if you are, were teaching a class from six to nine at night.
You wouldn't let somebody book that time with you because you were teaching a class.
You should treat your writing the same way as that.
So once you book your writing time don't let somebody overbook that appointment.
So yes, just a tip that helped me immensely on my own writing journey that I wanted to share with you all.
So we are reaching the end.
It's.
Is been wonderful Darius.
The last question that I ask to everyone is, this podcast is called Reading Inspires.
So what does reading inspire for you?
Reading inspires me to ask questions.
I think that if you look at different inventions different progression like from going from walking barefoot to now flying in the sky, right?
Like human beings have been able to do some really cool things, and it always starts with a. A question.
For me, books really give me a glimpse into different worlds, different lives, really tapping into my own imagination and re-imagining things in different ways that make me question what's in front of me and what could be.
So, I am always reading as much as I can.
Just read James by Perceval Everett fantastic book and, i'm always inspired to question the world around me always for the better and always always to, for me to think about how I can be better.
And reading helps me do that.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Dr. McKen until our paths cross again.
Thank you, Erin.