WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.100 Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.790 You will have to forgive the melodramatic episode title. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:17.100 It came from an essay that my own coach Liz shared with me Monday morning during 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:21.899 our coaching call The essay is called an invitation to the pain of learning Written 00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:27.539 by a man named Mortimer Adler who was apparently a philosopher or educational 00:00:27.539 --> 00:00:34.790 philosopher in the Prominence maybe in the 30s and 40s and beyond until he died in 00:00:34.890 --> 00:00:37.870 2000 or something I hadn't heard of Mr. 00:00:37.870 --> 00:00:39.630 Adler before, but Liz told me about him. 00:00:39.630 --> 00:00:40.310 I read this essay. 00:00:40.310 --> 00:00:40.750 I loved it. 00:00:40.750 --> 00:00:43.220 And now I may need to go read a couple of his books. 00:00:43.220 --> 00:00:47.980 I don't think they are easy reading, but that is relevant to today's conversation. 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:53.769 So Mortimer Adler writes this essay called An Invitation to the Pain of Learning. 00:00:53.780 --> 00:00:59.440 And his thesis in the essay is that real learning is difficult. 00:00:59.540 --> 00:01:03.110 It's painful, and it requires a lot of the learner. 00:01:04.470 --> 00:01:08.240 That knowledge is not something that we gain just by having more information, 00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:13.990 but that true education involves the transformation of the person, of 00:01:13.990 --> 00:01:15.510 their character, of their thinking. 00:01:17.329 --> 00:01:21.469 A couple of quotes here from the essay that I think are especially relevant 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:25.580 to us in the personal development space, the life coaching space, where 00:01:25.580 --> 00:01:29.530 he warns us against an educational approach that is too focused on ease. 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:35.859 Now, we as coaches, as online trainers, we might not think of ourselves as coaches. 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:40.180 Educators, but of course, that's what we're trying to do, especially in training 00:01:40.180 --> 00:01:44.729 programs, courses, group coaching, mastermind certifications, whatever. 00:01:45.459 --> 00:01:47.400 What we're attempting to do is transfer knowledge. 00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:50.740 I think under the assumption that the knowledge will transform the learner 00:01:50.740 --> 00:01:53.060 and that the learner will then take the knowledge and and use it to 00:01:53.060 --> 00:01:54.920 help other people transform as well. 00:01:55.430 --> 00:01:56.680 It's all very well intended. 00:01:56.690 --> 00:01:58.080 And I think it does happen. 00:02:00.080 --> 00:02:02.769 But Mortimer Adler in this essay warns us. 00:02:03.550 --> 00:02:09.090 Against what all of us have seen in the ads and on the sales pages and in the 00:02:09.100 --> 00:02:14.970 sales emails This is him talking about the adult education space and interestingly, 00:02:14.970 --> 00:02:19.269 this is him talking I believe in 1941 So these are not new ideas. 00:02:19.270 --> 00:02:24.009 We're talking about 80 plus years ago He says we try to make adult education as 00:02:24.009 --> 00:02:29.099 exciting as a football game As relaxing as a motion picture and as easy on the 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:35.045 mind as a quiz program Otherwise, we will not be able to draw the big crowds. 00:02:35.645 --> 00:02:38.815 And the important thing is to draw large numbers of people 00:02:38.815 --> 00:02:40.115 into this educational game. 00:02:40.665 --> 00:02:44.035 Even if after we get them, we leave them untransformed. 00:02:45.865 --> 00:02:47.635 So you're sensing his sarcasm there. 00:02:47.955 --> 00:02:52.595 He's recognizing, even back in 1940, this guy doesn't have any idea about funnels. 00:02:53.795 --> 00:03:00.624 He does not have any idea about social media or email sequences. 00:03:01.055 --> 00:03:05.335 Or sales pages in the way that we understand them today, we're living in 00:03:05.335 --> 00:03:09.764 the world that he's describing that is multiplied by a factor of a thousand. 00:03:11.194 --> 00:03:12.735 So he sarcastically says, 00:03:14.745 --> 00:03:20.284 if we don't make it easy, if we don't make it relaxing, if we don't make it exciting, 00:03:20.724 --> 00:03:24.505 then we won't draw the big crowds and drawing the big crowds is the point. 00:03:25.785 --> 00:03:28.475 Drawing the big crowds cannot be the point. 00:03:29.920 --> 00:03:35.770 If our goal is to actually aid in transformation, I think Mr. 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:40.610 Adler here is right to convict us of drawing big crowds and 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:42.339 leaving them untransformed. 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:48.680 10 years ago when I fell into the personal development space and life coaching space, 00:03:50.950 --> 00:03:54.350 one of the first conferences or seminars, it was really a sales seminar. 00:03:54.350 --> 00:03:55.470 It wasn't so much a conference. 00:03:55.900 --> 00:04:00.950 One of the first sales seminars I ever went to the coach who was running it 00:04:00.950 --> 00:04:02.480 in hopes of filling her mastermind. 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:05.140 I didn't know that at the time, but now I know that's exactly what was happening. 00:04:06.220 --> 00:04:09.010 She referred to it as infotainment. 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:12.850 Now do I think that's evil? 00:04:12.850 --> 00:04:15.410 No, I don't think it's evil, but I do think it's honest 00:04:15.410 --> 00:04:17.099 in a somewhat terrifying way. 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:21.250 She was acknowledging that the primary function. 00:04:21.635 --> 00:04:27.565 Of her work was to entertain, but to entertain in a way that made the 00:04:27.565 --> 00:04:33.955 participant feel smarter, feel better, whether or not they actually transformed. 00:04:34.655 --> 00:04:36.225 Now, did some of those people transform? 00:04:36.445 --> 00:04:41.445 I imagine they did, but in the way that we structure our world, 00:04:41.455 --> 00:04:44.055 our personal development world, our, our life coaching world, 00:04:46.595 --> 00:04:50.225 there's no requirement for transformation, there's just a 00:04:50.225 --> 00:04:52.025 requirement of participation. 00:04:52.485 --> 00:04:54.295 Through signing up and paying the fee 00:04:56.895 --> 00:04:59.815 and that incentive structure, the structure where the person doing 00:04:59.815 --> 00:05:04.175 the teaching knows whether they know consciously or whether it just 00:05:04.185 --> 00:05:06.194 drives , their activity subconsciously. 00:05:06.585 --> 00:05:10.544 They know that the job is to make the thing appealing enough 00:05:10.575 --> 00:05:12.374 that someone will pay for it. 00:05:16.344 --> 00:05:16.974 That's it. 00:05:17.044 --> 00:05:17.975 That's the job. 00:05:20.200 --> 00:05:23.230 Whether it actually does benefit their life is a totally subjective thing, and 00:05:23.230 --> 00:05:24.730 we could debate it all day and all night. 00:05:24.760 --> 00:05:26.470 And I don't feel qualified to do that. 00:05:27.700 --> 00:05:33.830 What I do feel qualified to say is that if the structure of the program and the 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:39.365 culture that the coach creates around him or herself, is such that there's 00:05:39.365 --> 00:05:45.965 a lot of hype and shine and glamor around the getting started moment. 00:05:47.735 --> 00:05:52.284 And then if there's a shifting of responsibility, maybe even that sounds 00:05:52.295 --> 00:05:57.635 like blame if and when the client experiences disappointment in the way 00:05:57.635 --> 00:05:59.265 the experience was actually delivered. 00:06:01.105 --> 00:06:03.505 Now we're in weird and risky territory. 00:06:05.255 --> 00:06:10.634 And we've talked about this on the show before, but as you consider whether 00:06:10.635 --> 00:06:15.824 to participate in a thing, a coaching program, whether it's group, whether 00:06:15.824 --> 00:06:20.074 it's a mastermind, whether it's a membership, all of which can be fantastic. 00:06:22.034 --> 00:06:24.714 If you notice that the. 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:29.820 persuasive elements of it are extremely shiny and bright 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.760 and persuasive and appealing. 00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:40.890 And if you notice that they give you the impression that you'll be able to 00:06:40.890 --> 00:06:49.610 achieve an extremely unusual result with relatively low effort and with 00:06:49.610 --> 00:06:52.810 no pain, at best they're pandering. 00:06:53.630 --> 00:06:54.810 Do you know what pandering means? 00:06:54.910 --> 00:06:56.690 Here's why I know what pandering means. 00:06:56.850 --> 00:06:59.680 It's because I was once accused of it and I was guilty. 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.390 And from that moment, I knew what pandering meant. 00:07:02.910 --> 00:07:06.280 I talked about my membership site a couple of episodes ago. 00:07:07.875 --> 00:07:11.245 When a person joined our membership, they went through our core resources, 00:07:12.605 --> 00:07:14.295 sort of the doctrine of the program. 00:07:14.295 --> 00:07:16.595 Here's what you're going to do, and here's what it's going to get you. 00:07:17.955 --> 00:07:21.975 And I have such a vivid memory of a person who went through the core 00:07:21.975 --> 00:07:25.375 resources, the core methodology, and then sent me a skating email. 00:07:27.055 --> 00:07:32.575 And I would say it was 80 percent warranted, which is to say, I don't think 00:07:32.575 --> 00:07:37.505 I was quite as guilty as his email made me out to be, but I was definitely guilty. 00:07:38.085 --> 00:07:39.245 And what was I guilty of? 00:07:39.315 --> 00:07:44.725 I was guilty of trying to persuade that new member of my membership who 00:07:44.725 --> 00:07:49.435 was probably in a trial period in my program where I was hoping to persuade 00:07:49.435 --> 00:07:51.495 them to stay a member for a long time. 00:07:52.265 --> 00:07:55.945 He had looked at the tone and the content , of that introductory material. 00:07:56.385 --> 00:08:00.565 And he said, you are attempting to make an extremely difficult 00:08:00.585 --> 00:08:03.735 result appear extremely easy. 00:08:04.805 --> 00:08:09.705 Telling the person what they want to hear in the face of what you know 00:08:09.705 --> 00:08:12.175 to be true, that's called pandering. 00:08:13.830 --> 00:08:14.730 And he was right. 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.500 And the proof that he was right was that that program didn't last 00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:22.200 a lot longer after that moment. 00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:26.470 One of the reasons that that membership site failed, and I think I talked about 00:08:26.470 --> 00:08:32.940 this, but one of the reasons it failed was that it did not invite people to 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:38.420 a painful, but durable and reliable approach to generating an income. 00:08:39.330 --> 00:08:42.040 It invited them to sneak through a loophole. 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:47.880 And it gave them the impression that it wasn't sneaking and it wasn't a loophole. 00:08:48.700 --> 00:08:54.410 I mean, we had good intentions and we helped a lot of people, but 45 year old 00:08:54.410 --> 00:08:58.800 me looks back at 30 year old me and says, I understand what you were doing and I 00:08:58.810 --> 00:09:02.660 think I understand why you were doing it, but you were playing a short term game. 00:09:02.865 --> 00:09:08.195 Um, when you could have had a longterm view and you were guilty of telling 00:09:08.195 --> 00:09:12.025 people what they wanted to hear instead of telling them what would 00:09:12.025 --> 00:09:14.455 have benefited them in the longterm. 00:09:16.525 --> 00:09:19.245 Now part of the issue is I didn't really know what would 00:09:19.255 --> 00:09:20.865 benefit them in the longterm. 00:09:21.445 --> 00:09:25.315 In hindsight, I realized I had a very get rich quick mindset about 00:09:25.315 --> 00:09:26.955 the thing we were teaching people. 00:09:28.895 --> 00:09:31.905 I didn't have enough experience yet to understand that we were encouraging 00:09:31.905 --> 00:09:33.225 people to sneak through a loophole. 00:09:33.495 --> 00:09:37.565 So there was some naivete, there was some innocence in what we were 00:09:37.565 --> 00:09:43.005 doing, but it was still pandering and it was still short sighted. 00:09:44.405 --> 00:09:49.995 And instead of inviting people to productive pain, I was inviting them 00:09:49.995 --> 00:09:52.515 to, sneaking through a loophole. 00:09:53.975 --> 00:09:55.125 I don't want to do that anymore. 00:09:56.690 --> 00:10:01.120 I don't think it benefits people and I still think the industry is guilty of it 00:10:03.530 --> 00:10:04.460 So after mr. 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:11.015 Adler says We have this desire to draw big crowds and we care about the large 00:10:11.015 --> 00:10:14.985 numbers, even if the education we give them leaves them untransformed. 00:10:15.925 --> 00:10:19.445 He says, what lies behind my remark is a distinction 00:10:19.445 --> 00:10:21.245 between two views of education. 00:10:22.015 --> 00:10:28.415 In one view, education is something externally added to a person , as 00:10:28.415 --> 00:10:30.545 his clothing and other accoutrements. 00:10:31.965 --> 00:10:36.125 We cajole him into standing there willingly while we fit him, and 00:10:36.125 --> 00:10:40.405 doing this we must be guided by his likes and dislikes, by his own notion 00:10:40.775 --> 00:10:42.435 of what enhances his appearance. 00:10:43.045 --> 00:10:48.155 In the other view, education is an interior transformation of 00:10:48.155 --> 00:10:50.255 a person's mind and character. 00:10:50.945 --> 00:10:55.725 He is plastic material to be improved, not according to his inclinations, 00:10:56.175 --> 00:10:57.915 but according to what is good for him. 00:10:59.640 --> 00:11:04.290 But because he is a living thing and not dead clay, the transformation can only 00:11:04.290 --> 00:11:06.360 be affected through his own activity. 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.400 So where does that leave us as coaches? 00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:12.543 Where does that leave us, as teachers? 00:11:12.703 --> 00:11:15.953 My conversation with Liz, with my coach this week happened, to catch me 00:11:15.953 --> 00:11:19.971 kind of in the middle of creating a website and persuasive material, sales 00:11:19.971 --> 00:11:22.516 copy, et cetera, around the world. 00:11:22.976 --> 00:11:24.916 The office hours program that I'm creating. 00:11:25.516 --> 00:11:26.616 I've talked about this for a while. 00:11:26.616 --> 00:11:27.636 Am I going to do a membership? 00:11:27.636 --> 00:11:28.046 Am I not? 00:11:28.046 --> 00:11:30.816 Well, it looks like I am, and I feel a lot of enthusiasm for it. 00:11:31.756 --> 00:11:36.426 Some nerves too, which I talked about in, the membership episode, but this 00:11:36.426 --> 00:11:40.896 is starting to feel like something I can't not do, even though I know 00:11:40.896 --> 00:11:45.826 exactly what I'm signing up for, but it feels important and it feels authentic. 00:11:46.591 --> 00:11:47.421 And don't get me wrong. 00:11:47.461 --> 00:11:48.231 I'm not a martyr. 00:11:48.291 --> 00:11:49.251 I'm excited about it. 00:11:49.251 --> 00:11:52.811 And I have high hopes for it, but now I'm writing sales copy. 00:11:53.411 --> 00:11:56.771 And as I write sales copy, even something like a headline for the 00:11:56.771 --> 00:12:00.391 homepage of this website, which is something I've been doing now for 00:12:00.431 --> 00:12:02.621 almost 20 years, writing sales copy. 00:12:04.981 --> 00:12:10.371 I have to ask myself, to what am I inviting this person? 00:12:11.496 --> 00:12:16.526 Am I inviting them to sneak through a loophole or am I inviting 00:12:16.526 --> 00:12:25.286 them to fulfilling difficult, even painful transformation? 00:12:26.676 --> 00:12:31.456 The challenge we face is if all we can do is present pain, I don't 00:12:31.466 --> 00:12:33.276 think people want to engage with us. 00:12:33.736 --> 00:12:36.426 The rare exception to this is if you happen to be running 00:12:36.426 --> 00:12:38.236 the United States Navy SEALs. 00:12:39.231 --> 00:12:45.501 The pain is the draw., You know, ultra marathoning is a thing where 00:12:45.501 --> 00:12:50.271 the person who's drawn to it, find some meditative state in the pain. 00:12:51.111 --> 00:12:52.911 Great, fantastic for them 00:12:55.271 --> 00:13:01.601 in an online community, like office hours, hopes to be, uh, where there's education, 00:13:01.711 --> 00:13:05.071 where there's support or there's some coaching, where there's some practice. 00:13:07.981 --> 00:13:15.221 I don't want to lead with all pain, but I do want to invite people to 00:13:15.221 --> 00:13:18.211 transformation, durable transformation. 00:13:21.581 --> 00:13:25.641 I want them to experience a change of mind and a change of character, 00:13:26.051 --> 00:13:31.291 not based on what I think they should do, but what they know to 00:13:31.301 --> 00:13:33.281 be true for themselves deep inside. 00:13:35.091 --> 00:13:39.591 I don't want to relieve them of the difficulty that is between them and 00:13:39.591 --> 00:13:43.821 the realization of their highest and best thoughts about themselves, 00:13:44.961 --> 00:13:48.401 about their loved ones, about their health, whatever it is. 00:13:49.831 --> 00:13:55.421 I want to create a space and make that space appealing so that a person 00:13:55.421 --> 00:14:01.191 who's invited into that space says, I don't go lightly into this space. 00:14:01.621 --> 00:14:05.851 And I don't expect to be coddled or pandered to, 00:14:07.011 --> 00:14:12.201 but I do expect it to be supported as I attempt very 00:14:12.401 --> 00:14:14.461 difficult personal transformation. 00:14:17.211 --> 00:14:20.771 Now, we do know as coaches that very difficult personal transformation 00:14:21.121 --> 00:14:23.101 doesn't have to mean summiting Everest. 00:14:23.581 --> 00:14:27.801 It doesn't have to mean running 240 miles through the deserts 00:14:27.801 --> 00:14:30.091 of Utah in an ultra race. 00:14:30.981 --> 00:14:35.591 It doesn't have to mean becoming a bodybuilder who diets down to 00:14:35.591 --> 00:14:37.731 5 percent body fat for a show. 00:14:38.211 --> 00:14:40.351 It doesn't have to live in these extremes, 00:14:43.011 --> 00:14:48.991 intense, difficult, personal transformation makes itself available 00:14:49.191 --> 00:14:54.691 in the micro moments and cracks of our lives, where, instead of 00:14:54.691 --> 00:14:58.731 telling ourselves and our loved one, the same old lie we always have. 00:14:59.641 --> 00:15:02.701 We share a loving, but difficult truth. 00:15:04.351 --> 00:15:06.711 There's real fear in that for all of us. 00:15:06.861 --> 00:15:09.351 Most of us, there's pain in that. 00:15:10.241 --> 00:15:13.511 When we do that, we're likely to cause ourselves problems. 00:15:13.511 --> 00:15:17.381 It's likely to get worse before it gets better, but we do it because we hope 00:15:17.381 --> 00:15:18.931 for something better on the other side. 00:15:19.541 --> 00:15:22.341 So it's an invitation to pain, but we hope that it's a productive pain. 00:15:24.531 --> 00:15:26.401 I think that's teaching at its best. 00:15:26.401 --> 00:15:28.201 I think that's coaching at its best. 00:15:29.341 --> 00:15:31.941 I think that's friendship at its best and marriage at its best. 00:15:33.321 --> 00:15:36.831 The truth is in coaching, we are inviting people to difficulty. 00:15:37.981 --> 00:15:40.321 I might've told this story on the show before, but when I was about 12 00:15:40.321 --> 00:15:43.121 years old, I think my parents asked me what I wanted to do for a living. 00:15:43.121 --> 00:15:45.321 And I think I said, I wanted to be a psychologist. 00:15:45.331 --> 00:15:48.701 I don't remember having any idea what a psychologist was at age 12. 00:15:50.881 --> 00:15:54.301 When I started college, I still had that idea in mind, apparently. 00:15:54.491 --> 00:15:58.341 And I went to my first entry level psychology class 00:16:00.031 --> 00:16:02.501 and I dropped the class and I changed my major. 00:16:03.421 --> 00:16:06.061 And apparently my mom tells me, I forgot this, but my mom says, Oh 00:16:06.061 --> 00:16:08.781 yeah, you went out of there and you said, I'm not going to be a therapist. 00:16:08.911 --> 00:16:10.951 All you do is listen to people's problems all day. 00:16:10.951 --> 00:16:12.011 That sounds terrible. 00:16:14.661 --> 00:16:16.831 Well now I'm 45, I'm a life coach. 00:16:18.596 --> 00:16:23.266 A very high percentage of what I do is listen to people's problems and it is 00:16:23.276 --> 00:16:27.855 rich and rewarding and difficult and I think important but also painful. 00:16:29.911 --> 00:16:37.321 I didn't have a very heavy coaching week this week, maybe eight to ten sessions and 00:16:40.506 --> 00:16:43.096 Well, I was about to say what happened in some of those sessions, 00:16:43.096 --> 00:16:46.356 but that's probably not right. 00:16:46.616 --> 00:16:51.136 So what I'll say instead is, , in a high percentage of those sessions 00:16:51.176 --> 00:16:56.226 and in a couple of emails I received afterwards, there was real pain expressed, 00:16:57.416 --> 00:16:59.586 but also gratitude and progress. 00:17:00.246 --> 00:17:01.826 That seems to be the gig. 00:17:03.216 --> 00:17:05.216 It's the gig we sign up for as coaches. 00:17:06.031 --> 00:17:11.801 And it's the experience we invite our clients to when we are at our best. 00:17:12.901 --> 00:17:18.831 What we do, when it's at its highest and best, it is an 00:17:18.831 --> 00:17:21.291 invitation to productive pain, 00:17:24.131 --> 00:17:28.131 coupled with the promise of the growth. 00:17:29.121 --> 00:17:33.811 And the happiness and the internal alignment and regulation that 00:17:33.811 --> 00:17:39.481 come with paying the price of those hopefully temporary pains. 00:17:40.891 --> 00:17:42.011 That's when we're at our best. 00:17:44.231 --> 00:17:45.751 That's what we're offering to our clients. 00:17:45.751 --> 00:17:48.991 Anyway, 00:17:51.151 --> 00:17:51.691 have a good week. 00:17:52.111 --> 00:17:52.961 We'll talk to you next time.