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Good morning grid connections listeners.

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I know I'm always telling you that I'm
very excited to share today's episode with

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you and in fact I am, but I do think that
this is actually my favorite yet.

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In fact, the recording with our panel
turned out to be so entertaining and we

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were having so much fun nerding out about
everything that's happened in the past

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year in the automotive space, especially
around EVs and charging that we went way

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over time.

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In fact, so over time that I had to break
today's episode into two parts.

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We actually were talking for about a
little over two hours.

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And the first half airing today and the
second half will be airing next Tuesday,

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just in case you're wondering, but I'll
also be sharing some clips in advance on

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our YouTube and social pages.

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So I definitely recommend checking those
out as well in the interim to kind of give

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you a tease for what's coming next week,
but let's start with today.

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So in this two-part panel interview, we
brought together some familiar faces.

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I had John McElroy of Autoline TV, Matt
Teske, the founder of Chargeway who was on last

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week's episode.

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Along with Loren McDonald of EV adoption.

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I wanted to have people all from this past
season of the podcast and together we

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share our insights and kind of expertise,
if you will, I have the most significant

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events that kind of shaped the auto
industry in our opinions in 2023.

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And while preparing for this episode, I
saw that there were really three big

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themes of EVs and really from the space in
2023, those were charging the new EVs that

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came out and really.

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the software connecting all of this
together.

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In this first episode, we focus on
charging and some of the new EVs along

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with the general automotive industry this
past year.

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The first part will be focusing on the
North American charging standard

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revolution, along with the further rollout
of the National Electric Vehicle

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Infrastructure Program, or NEVI for short,
and then the growth rate of the current

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electric vehicle sales, along with really
the impact this is all having on legacy

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automakers on the market.

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In the second part, we start with the role
of Chinese EVs in the North American

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market.

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And then we talk about how software of the
user defined vehicle, as I can elect to

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think of it, is really leading this
revolution globally, especially for EVs

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and then we wrap up with our predictions
for 2024, but that's for next week.

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So buckle up and join us, especially if
you're driving, listening to us, but we're

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going to be exploring the past year's
standouts of the auto industry in this

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engaging and informative panel discussion.

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Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast
for more insightful conversations on the

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latest trends and innovations in the
automotive world.

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And with all of that, enjoy.

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John go first.

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Sure thing, Chase.

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My name's John McElroy with Autoline.

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You know, I'm a journalist who's been
covering the industry from way, way back

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in the last century.

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And we cover anything and everything to do
with the industry on a global basis.

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I'm Matt Teske, founder and CEO of
Chargeway.

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We have a mobile app and software platform
that simplifies EV charging for every

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vehicle, for everyone everywhere in North
America.

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And we recently released version 2.0 of
the app and response has been great.

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And regularly we work with auto dealers
and utilities and obviously drivers around

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the U S on how we can make the EV charging
experience easier to understand for

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everyone.

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Yeah.

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And I guess just to add to that, if anyone
is listening, uh, Matt was on just the

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previous episode.

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So, uh, if you've got questions about the
new charge way app and some of the

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technology that's changed, highly
recommend listening to that, uh, episode.

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And then, yeah, Lauren, I think yours was
great also around what we were seeing in

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2023 around Neve and then John, your, uh,
insights to the UAW and all of that.

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Uh, when that we were kind of in the thick
of that back in the past year was super

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entertaining as well.

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But I think with that, I would love to
kind of just go around.

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with all three of you and what to you were
maybe like the one big standout moment for

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each of you in the EV and kind of EV
charging industry.

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Well, I'll take a first stab at that.

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I mean, I think one of the big surprises
was the slowdown in the growth rate of EV

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sales, which seems to have caught just
about everybody unawares.

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And it's important to point out it's a
slowdown in the growth rate.

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It's not as if EV sales are falling.

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They're not growing nearly as fast as they
had been at the beginning of 2023.

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And I'm sure we can get into more looking
forward as to what's going to happen for

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2024.

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Matt, what about you?

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Well, I mean, I think, I mean, the growth
rate to, you know, to John's point, I

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think for industry advocates, it probably
came as a little bit of a surprise.

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I'll be honest, it didn't surprise me just
because of what I've been focused on for

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years is that we can only keep going back
to the well of the early adopter mindset

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and hoping people will pre-educate enough
that they just know what they want and

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they're ready to own and they're excited
to do it.

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We're kind of, we're getting into that
place now where people are buying an EV

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because that's the brand they like.

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you know, Oh, Lexus finally has an EV or
Volvo has the one I've always wanted or

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whatever it might be.

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And what, what's happening is they're
discovering it's not about buying a car.

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It's about buying a new experience with
fueling and energy and everything else.

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And I think that we're, we're seeing the
realities of when the general public isn't

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clamoring into a showroom to switch to
electricity as a fuel, those cars are

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going to sit there because there's a lot
of unknowns that they're not wanting to

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research on their own that are different
from early adopters.

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So, um, yeah, I think that that's going to
become a very important topic here this

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year.

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Lauren.

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Yeah.

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And for me, I actually, I have a bit of a
different take than, than John.

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Um, cause the biggest moment for me was
being surprised and shocked that the

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legacy automakers were surprised at, um,
they didn't understand the market.

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They clearly are failing at understanding
the EV market and have an inability to

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forecast it just like boggles my mind.

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Right?

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Like the amount of data, these

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these companies have, right?

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They have multiple, like people in their
research department, they're getting data

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from the dealers and stuff, and they're
surprised at what the sales is.

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So I was surprised that they were
surprised.

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Anybody that understands math knows that
as a market grows and gets bigger, even if

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the numbers units continue to grow, which
they are, we're gonna increase

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roughly 50% year over year, the growth
rate, it's math, right?

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The growth rate actually declines because
the denominator gets bigger, right?

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So I think the moment for me was just
complete and utter, just like not

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understanding why the legacy automakers
don't understand math and have an

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inability to forecast because...

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You know, sales are growing.

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The other thing which we'll, we'll get
into, I'll get into a little bit later is

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my, uh, my Evie pizza pie theory that sort
of helps understand this, but, um, yeah,

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I'll, I'll just sort of stop there, but
yeah, I just, it's just like boggles my

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mind.

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No, I appreciate all of that.

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And I think it is kind of funny because,
uh, kind of listening to all three of you,

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those are all themes that each of you have
been kind of been talking about for

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definitely my, uh, Matt and Lauren for
years now.

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And I know John, you've definitely had
your pulse on what's been going on the EV

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industry.

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So that's, I think that's why I'm kind of
excited to get into this.

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Some of this I hope will be, um, uh, not
just entertaining.

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I think there's going to be maybe a
little, uh, as we've had on a couple

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episodes, venting.

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of some of these issues that have
continued to be, uh, I think I always

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think of the scene from like Zoolander.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's Friday.

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I mean, uh, but I, I get what you're
saying.

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It's, I always think of the scene from
Zoolander and it's like, I feel like I'm

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taking crazy pills or something.

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There's no one see that all of this is the
same, but, um, with today's episode, I

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broke it down to kind of three topics to
recap 2023, and that was really around

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Charging which is unto itself its own
podcast kind of what we saw in the car and

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automotive industry And then the third big
component is like software and how this is

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playing and disrupting this industry so
heavily so with that, I think we'll just

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kick it off with Charging and what we saw
in this year and I think in my opinion the

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biggest takeaway was What I've kind of
jokingly called the next revolution or the

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North American charging standard
revolution.

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I mean about

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a year ago this time it was announced.

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Everyone was laughing it off.

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It was like, no one's going to adopt that.

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And then in March, Ford kind of mixed
things up and said, you know what, we're

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going to give it a try.

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And then from there, everything has
changed in good or bad.

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It's thrown definitely the industry into
some chaos as to what these specifics are

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actually going to look like now going into
2024.

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But I think real quickly, I would just
love to get everyone's thoughts on how

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they saw this happening and what they
think were the

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the big issues for it.

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I think John especially since you're kind
of in the heart of Detroit there, I'd love

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to have you kick this one off.

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Sure, well, I mean, it's pretty obvious.

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Tesla's got the best charging system of
anybody.

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And Jim Farley was the first to wake up to
the fact that, hey, Elon's offered it, why

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not take him up on his offer of being able
to use NACs?

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And it instantly opens Ford's EVs once
they get the NAC plug.

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to many more thousands of charging
stations and more importantly reliable

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charging stations.

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And you know as soon as Ford signed up you
knew General Motors couldn't be too far

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behind and then everybody jumped into the
pool.

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You know even Volkswagen Group which you
know essentially is funding Electrify

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America has decided yeah me too I want to
be in on that next thing.

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Now, now SAE is scurrying around trying to
incorporate that into its charging

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standard.

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What's that?

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J1772, I think it is.

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Oh, oh, sorry.

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Yeah.

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Thanks for the correction.

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Yes.

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So, yeah, I mean.

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Yeah, Matt and I will talk about this.

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Just what we need more J's to, to.

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thank god, an engineering acronym that's
show the public?

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I'm so excited.

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It always made me wonder when it was named
J 1772 is like, were there 1771 other ones

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that just didn't make it or what, how, why
was that the number that was chosen?

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But I think that's a spot on because, uh,
one of the, the funny coincidence and

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maybe you caught this, John was the day, I
think it was just last month that the SA

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announced the J 3,400, uh, standard was
now kind of finally cemented.

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That was the same day that the Volkswagen
group said, yeah, we're going to Nax.

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And that to me was just kind of too funny
of a coincidence not to have been, uh,

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timed.

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I mean, given that how late they were to
the party.

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a coincidence because, you know, several
of the automaker holdouts, like

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Stellantis, et cetera, basically said that
it wasn't a standard yet, right.

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And so until it was, and it still isn't a
standard, right.

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It's still actually not final, but it's
getting close.

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But, um, it, so I actually, I, I posted
something on, on LinkedIn that morning and

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predicted.

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that a couple more automakers would follow
suit and literally, yeah, within like two

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hours, uh, you know, the Volkswagen did
and stuff.

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So that was, that was sort of pretty much
expect.

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Well, yeah, I think what we're what we're
discussing and again, for those, you know,

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Chase, as you mentioned, like a lot of
your listeners, they're in the know, they

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know a lot of this stuff for those who
might find this conversation and ask me

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what are they even talking about?

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I mean, at the end of the day, it what
Tesla designed was it was designed with

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intent.

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And everything that was coming out of SAE
with both J 1772 and CCS was designed by

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committee.

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And you could tell it was like, well, it's
this big at home or on the road.

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or it's this big at home and this big on
the road.

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And when you wield the thing, it's, oh,
this cable's too thick.

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And also, you know, I mean, just go down
the list of problems.

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And I was always just, it's just, I
laughed every time I heard anybody say, we

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just got to get Tesla in line.

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They got to switch over to CCS here in
North America.

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And I would say, anytime I heard anybody
say that, I would say, you're dreaming.

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They have the best product out there for
charging.

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And I mean, it ain't gonna happen.

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And even if the government came in and
said, okay, you guys got to change over.

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00:12:38,324 --> 00:12:42,661
I'm sure they would have gone to the
mattresses to figure out how to say no.

222
00:12:43,362 --> 00:12:47,399
And so what they finally proved was we
have the best mousetrap and to, and to

223
00:12:47,399 --> 00:12:50,703
Lauren's point about being just, you know,
shocked about like, how did they, how did

224
00:12:50,703 --> 00:12:52,772
the OEMs not see this coming?

225
00:12:52,838 --> 00:12:55,174
I had a meeting with a very, very big OEM.

226
00:12:55,174 --> 00:12:59,245
Now seven, six and a half years ago, when
I presented Charged Way and said, this is

227
00:12:59,245 --> 00:13:01,780
what you should be thinking about for the,
you know, the charging experience, why

228
00:13:01,780 --> 00:13:03,816
it's so fundamental to ownership, et
cetera.

229
00:13:03,816 --> 00:13:08,888
And I have a vivid memory of someone from
that EV team from that OEM on the call,

230
00:13:08,888 --> 00:13:11,524
literally saying as the call ended, well,
this was interesting.

231
00:13:11,524 --> 00:13:13,192
Good luck with your little project.

232
00:13:14,059 --> 00:13:16,829
And I remember thinking they are so in
trouble.

233
00:13:17,163 --> 00:13:18,497
Like they are, they have no idea.

234
00:13:18,497 --> 00:13:21,734
And what's scary is we have how many
hundreds of millions and billions of

235
00:13:21,734 --> 00:13:25,638
dollars that have been spent around this
lack of comprehensive understanding of how

236
00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:29,108
to build this product within their, their
ecosystems.

237
00:13:29,141 --> 00:13:33,412
And, and to Lauren's point earlier, and,
and just what we've been seeing.

238
00:13:33,579 --> 00:13:35,915
I just look at it and go, how on earth did
you not know?

239
00:13:35,915 --> 00:13:38,851
And what we're seeing with Jim Farley and
Mary Barra and everybody else saying,

240
00:13:38,851 --> 00:13:39,985
okay, we're gonna switch over to Nax.

241
00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:41,120
Okay, we're making this choice.

242
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,855
That's a waving of the white flag.

243
00:13:42,922 --> 00:13:43,822
Let's just be candid.

244
00:13:43,822 --> 00:13:45,591
I mean, they just, they went, oopsie.

245
00:13:45,624 --> 00:13:50,729
Every third party network that has now
heard that is like, okay, so now what do

246
00:13:50,729 --> 00:13:52,264
we have to retrofit everything?

247
00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:53,499
Is it adapt or hell?

248
00:13:53,499 --> 00:13:55,067
I mean, that's what we're facing.

249
00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,570
And so there's so many things to unpack
around the lack of comprehensive

250
00:13:57,570 --> 00:13:59,505
understanding about bringing these
products to market.

251
00:13:59,505 --> 00:14:02,808
And the whole time Tesla has just been
saying, we have had a...

252
00:14:02,808 --> 00:14:07,947
public roadmap for you for 15 years that
you all could have been looking at and no

253
00:14:07,947 --> 00:14:09,348
one picked up on it.

254
00:14:09,548 --> 00:14:12,151
I think it's, to Lauren's point, I think
it's like, wow, how did that happen?

255
00:14:12,151 --> 00:14:15,254
It's like, hubris is a cruel mistress?

256
00:14:15,254 --> 00:14:16,121
I don't know.

257
00:14:16,789 --> 00:14:19,859
Matt, great backstory to what you're
talking about there.

258
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:24,196
So years ago, I talked to somebody on the
committee, the SAE committee that was

259
00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:26,498
writing that charging standard.

260
00:14:26,532 --> 00:14:28,500
And they complained bitterly about Tesla.

261
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:31,670
They said, you know, Tesla was part of
that committee and we put this whole

262
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:33,138
beautiful thing together.

263
00:14:33,138 --> 00:14:36,175
And then they went off and did their own
thing and they were all pissed off about

264
00:14:36,175 --> 00:14:39,144
it because they said, this is going to
hold back EV adoption.

265
00:14:39,144 --> 00:14:41,046
You know, we should have come out with one
standard.

266
00:14:41,046 --> 00:14:43,515
Then only just last year,

267
00:14:43,515 --> 00:14:48,187
I talked to somebody else who was on that
committee and they said, oh yeah, Tesla

268
00:14:48,187 --> 00:14:51,223
was part of the committee and nobody
listened to them.

269
00:14:51,223 --> 00:14:53,525
Nobody paid attention to them.

270
00:14:53,692 --> 00:14:54,927
It was little old Tesla.

271
00:14:54,927 --> 00:14:57,563
They hadn't even done much of anything at
that point.

272
00:14:57,563 --> 00:15:00,332
So it speaks exactly to what you're
talking about.

273
00:15:00,332 --> 00:15:05,137
It's hubris, it's corporate culture, if it
ain't broke, don't fix it.

274
00:15:05,137 --> 00:15:05,604
Yeah.

275
00:15:05,604 --> 00:15:10,075
You know, the other thing to sort of
follow on, and Matt and I talk about this

276
00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:18,317
a lot, Chase, is, you know, Farley came
out not because Tesla had a better

277
00:15:18,317 --> 00:15:23,155
mousetrap, it was because the current one
they're using was failing them.

278
00:15:23,622 --> 00:15:30,329
The number one complaint at Ford on the
Mustang Mach-E, the customer complaint

279
00:15:30,329 --> 00:15:33,032
from owners, was Electrify America.

280
00:15:33,732 --> 00:15:36,702
Number one complaint from customers,
right?

281
00:15:37,136 --> 00:15:43,709
You may recall that Ford launched like
their charging angels thing, right?

282
00:15:43,709 --> 00:15:47,413
Like they were doing everything they could
to try to fix the problem.

283
00:15:47,413 --> 00:15:51,550
I know an engineer inside the company,
they had teams, they had like everybody

284
00:15:51,550 --> 00:15:54,486
trying to work on this and fix this.

285
00:15:54,486 --> 00:15:54,953
And so when...

286
00:15:54,953 --> 00:15:58,657
think it's, it's so important because the
conversations we're always having that

287
00:15:58,657 --> 00:16:00,492
these are the early adopters.

288
00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:04,563
And if the early adopters can't figure it
out, how the hell is someone's grandma

289
00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:07,132
going to be able to even go to the next
town?

290
00:16:07,132 --> 00:16:12,938
to Matt's point, this was, you know, Jim
started the waving of the white flags

291
00:16:12,938 --> 00:16:19,745
because when he got on that Twitter spaces
or whatever they call that thing, he

292
00:16:19,745 --> 00:16:20,713
didn't say it.

293
00:16:20,713 --> 00:16:29,088
But what he basically was saying was that
Volkswagen funded charging network failed

294
00:16:29,088 --> 00:16:29,788
us.

295
00:16:29,955 --> 00:16:32,858
We put everything on them.

296
00:16:32,958 --> 00:16:33,692
Right.

297
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,494
And it didn't work.

298
00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:37,730
And so we're going to get into bed.

299
00:16:37,863 --> 00:16:40,132
With our arch enemy competitor, right?

300
00:16:40,132 --> 00:16:41,400
Like think about that.

301
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,672
They literally said, we're going to turn
to our biggest competitor in the EV space

302
00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:49,141
to solve our charging problem.

303
00:16:49,274 --> 00:16:50,042
Right.

304
00:16:50,075 --> 00:16:51,977
And then everybody else just caved.

305
00:16:51,977 --> 00:16:52,378
Right.

306
00:16:52,378 --> 00:16:58,350
And now I'm not saying it wasn't the right
answer, but it wasn't like this strategic,

307
00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:01,120
smart, forward thinking proactive
decision.

308
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,788
It was, Oh shit.

309
00:17:02,788 --> 00:17:02,988
Yeah.

310
00:17:02,988 --> 00:17:05,090
existing solution failed.

311
00:17:05,557 --> 00:17:07,059
And so, yeah.

312
00:17:08,227 --> 00:17:09,094
Yeah.

313
00:17:09,094 --> 00:17:12,698
that's why I find it so in like, as
someone who's in this industry and someone

314
00:17:12,698 --> 00:17:16,235
who cares about its success, it is
insulting when we hear things like, I

315
00:17:16,235 --> 00:17:21,306
mean, I'll just be blunt, like hearing the
Biden administration say, you led, Mary,

316
00:17:21,974 --> 00:17:23,442
you led on EVs.

317
00:17:23,442 --> 00:17:28,480
When that happened, and frankly, Elon's a
lightning rod for all the things that he

318
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,618
says and does sometimes, but at the end of
the damn day, that was insulting.

319
00:17:32,985 --> 00:17:36,588
It was ridiculous and anybody in the know
was like, you've got to be kidding me.

320
00:17:36,588 --> 00:17:42,828
It was such, yeah, it's, yeah, it's just,
it's, yeah, it was just such, it was such

321
00:17:42,828 --> 00:17:43,996
a ridiculous moment.

322
00:17:43,996 --> 00:17:45,898
may not have even believed it.

323
00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:48,267
You know, that was said for political
purposes.

324
00:17:48,267 --> 00:17:48,967
Yeah, right.

325
00:17:48,967 --> 00:17:49,168
Yeah.

326
00:17:49,168 --> 00:17:50,936
yeah, no, John, I want to hear your
thoughts on that.

327
00:17:50,936 --> 00:17:52,571
What, what, what do you think?

328
00:17:53,071 --> 00:17:58,010
Well, look, you know, the Biden
administration is beholden to the UAW, and

329
00:17:58,010 --> 00:18:00,512
the UAW hates Elon with a passion.

330
00:18:00,512 --> 00:18:02,214
They hate anything to do with Tesla.

331
00:18:02,214 --> 00:18:05,584
They despise the company and Elon
especially.

332
00:18:05,818 --> 00:18:10,155
And Joe knows he needs them for next
year's election.

333
00:18:10,389 --> 00:18:16,395
And you saw today, 33 Democratic senators
came out and warned the non-union,

334
00:18:16,528 --> 00:18:19,798
automakers including Tesla, don't you dare
hold back the UAW.

335
00:18:19,798 --> 00:18:21,733
It's all political posturing.

336
00:18:22,067 --> 00:18:26,738
They're telling the automakers, stay out
of the nose of these guys trying to

337
00:18:26,738 --> 00:18:27,873
organize your plants.

338
00:18:27,873 --> 00:18:32,444
Well, hello, 33 senators, maybe you should
keep your nose out of it too.

339
00:18:33,345 --> 00:18:33,946
That's true.

340
00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:37,249
No, and that's, I think for people that
are on the outside of our conversations

341
00:18:37,249 --> 00:18:40,252
that we all have daily looking into this,
I'll be honest.

342
00:18:40,252 --> 00:18:43,388
I think the general public, they see
through the BS.

343
00:18:43,422 --> 00:18:45,457
I think oftentimes they just kind of go,
really?

344
00:18:45,457 --> 00:18:46,892
Like, you know, I mean, is that true?

345
00:18:46,892 --> 00:18:52,498
Because look at the stories in the last
two weeks about this flagship Ultium GM

346
00:18:52,498 --> 00:18:57,436
product that's finally coming to market
and oopsie poopsie, the software in this

347
00:18:57,436 --> 00:18:59,004
is not working out.

348
00:18:59,004 --> 00:19:02,241
And what was the big thing that was touted
from GM saying we were gonna

349
00:19:02,274 --> 00:19:04,276
pivot from everything, we're gonna do our
own software.

350
00:19:04,276 --> 00:19:07,079
They are working with Google on some
stuff, but it's, hey, no CarPlay, no

351
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,414
Android Auto, it's you're gonna live in
our world.

352
00:19:09,515 --> 00:19:12,784
So on one hand, they understand what Tesla
has done, but on the other hand, they

353
00:19:12,784 --> 00:19:15,153
don't know how to execute it effectively.

354
00:19:15,187 --> 00:19:18,690
And I think that is coming to light very
quickly and painfully.

355
00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:21,059
And I think in the end, what's that gonna
do for EV adoption?

356
00:19:21,059 --> 00:19:22,928
It's the same conversation we're just
having about CCS.

357
00:19:22,928 --> 00:19:25,731
It's like, well, which was the better
solution?

358
00:19:25,831 --> 00:19:28,667
It's like, well, Tesla had a better
approach to infrastructure and connector

359
00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:29,501
design.

360
00:19:29,501 --> 00:19:31,436
They have a better approach to software.

361
00:19:31,703 --> 00:19:35,574
And I think we're kind of seeing this
repetition of Volkswagen had that problem.

362
00:19:35,574 --> 00:19:37,142
GM had that problem.

363
00:19:37,209 --> 00:19:38,277
Ford had that problem.

364
00:19:38,844 --> 00:19:39,878
So I don't know.

365
00:19:39,878 --> 00:19:44,616
I think that, I mean, this is again, a
very big conversation to always unpack.

366
00:19:44,616 --> 00:19:48,620
But I think what we're seeing overall is
that the, and as Lauren pointed out

367
00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:52,524
earlier, the lack of appreciation from the
legacy OEMs around what do you

368
00:19:52,524 --> 00:19:55,994
fundamentally need to understand to bring
these products to market?

369
00:19:56,094 --> 00:19:58,864
And, and as John pointed out, it's just
like, yeah, it's, it's a lot of it.

370
00:19:58,864 --> 00:19:59,665
It's just posturing.

371
00:19:59,665 --> 00:20:01,066
It's just like, how can we make it?

372
00:20:01,066 --> 00:20:04,102
represent in a way that's going to work
for us from the way, you know, kind of the

373
00:20:04,102 --> 00:20:05,637
ways we've always done it.

374
00:20:05,671 --> 00:20:07,072
And it's not the same game.

375
00:20:07,072 --> 00:20:09,107
They actually have to bring more to the
table.

376
00:20:09,441 --> 00:20:10,175
And we're seeing that.

377
00:20:10,175 --> 00:20:13,712
And the worst of it is, it's going to hurt
the industry because there's a lack of

378
00:20:13,812 --> 00:20:16,748
really doing the work well and more just
kind of like kicking the can down the

379
00:20:16,748 --> 00:20:17,783
road, it feels like.

380
00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:22,588
And, and, and Matt, how do you think the
executives at Honda and Acura feeling

381
00:20:22,588 --> 00:20:27,392
right now about hitching their pony to the
Altium platform, right?

382
00:20:29,995 --> 00:20:33,999
Well, they still have, they still have the
two EVs coming out on the Altium platform,

383
00:20:33,999 --> 00:20:36,802
but then after that they're switching, but
yeah.

384
00:20:36,802 --> 00:20:39,705
well, and that just at the end of the day,
I say to people anymore, very simply,

385
00:20:39,705 --> 00:20:43,809
there are four fundamental factors that
make an EV ownership experience positive.

386
00:20:43,842 --> 00:20:47,379
The car itself inside and outside legacy
OEMs, boy, do they do that well.

387
00:20:47,379 --> 00:20:48,880
They do that amazingly well.

388
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,385
The other three fundamental components are
battery, software and infrastructure.

389
00:20:53,852 --> 00:20:57,623
Those four pieces make you got to have
those things aligned beautifully.

390
00:20:57,623 --> 00:20:58,490
Tesla.

391
00:20:58,590 --> 00:21:00,626
they've got the battery software
infrastructure done really well.

392
00:21:00,626 --> 00:21:03,095
We can all argue about how they can
improve on the manufacturing side of it.

393
00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:07,266
Um, but at the end of the day, for an EV
to actually be a functional car, you can

394
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:10,235
kind of overlook things of aesthetics and
be like, yeah, the fit and finish that

395
00:21:10,235 --> 00:21:13,839
material on the inside could have been
better, but boy, their software is second

396
00:21:13,839 --> 00:21:14,539
to none.

397
00:21:14,539 --> 00:21:15,674
Their batteries.

398
00:21:15,674 --> 00:21:18,477
Yeah, they're well integrated with their
software and boy are they well integrated

399
00:21:18,477 --> 00:21:20,212
with an infrastructure that they manage.

400
00:21:20,212 --> 00:21:23,815
I mean, that's, that's confidence in EV
ownership and the legacy OEMs.

401
00:21:23,815 --> 00:21:26,685
have not still figured that out, and maybe
they are figuring it out, but then what's

402
00:21:26,685 --> 00:21:27,119
gonna happen?

403
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,954
Is it more waving of white flags?

404
00:21:29,855 --> 00:21:31,690
Yeah, we'll just license that software
from Tesla.

405
00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:34,393
I mean, honestly.

406
00:21:34,693 --> 00:21:36,295
Yeah, I, I'm curious.

407
00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:39,798
I mean, they, Tesla's alluded to like, oh,
they're going to license FSD and some of

408
00:21:39,798 --> 00:21:41,633
these other things, which could happen.

409
00:21:41,633 --> 00:21:42,134
I don't know.

410
00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:46,938
But, um, I think just kind of going off
that before don't, I don't want to go too

411
00:21:46,938 --> 00:21:51,410
far off topic, but I think what you're
also hitting on is just kind of insulation

412
00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:56,515
of thought, uh, between not only the
executives, but like you go on Twitter,

413
00:21:56,515 --> 00:22:02,788
you go on anything and there's pro EV anti
EV people talking all the time about these

414
00:22:02,788 --> 00:22:03,855
kind of, uh,

415
00:22:03,855 --> 00:22:06,525
Essentially the same scenarios we keep
hearing like, oh, EVs aren't going to save

416
00:22:06,525 --> 00:22:06,925
the planet.

417
00:22:06,925 --> 00:22:08,527
EVs aren't going to save the planet.

418
00:22:08,593 --> 00:22:12,330
And what's so interesting to me is the
best thing I think, and I, Jim Farley did

419
00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:12,464
this.

420
00:22:12,464 --> 00:22:15,634
He goes on a road trip in a lightning.

421
00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:16,668
You just got to get out there.

422
00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:23,175
And in my experience, I mean, I just did a
road trip back from, uh, steamboat Springs

423
00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:26,445
to back to Ben, which was about 11 and
1200 miles each way.

424
00:22:26,545 --> 00:22:31,450
And everywhere I went, not a, all I had
was positive curiosity.

425
00:22:31,917 --> 00:22:32,951
Some people said.

426
00:22:32,951 --> 00:22:33,952
Maybe it's not right for them.

427
00:22:33,952 --> 00:22:36,755
Maybe they're not ready for an EV, but
they were curious about it.

428
00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:40,959
And I think too many people get stuck,
kind of sucked in into either.

429
00:22:40,959 --> 00:22:46,765
They're, uh, kind of own bubbles of the
logic behind it, or even what they've

430
00:22:46,765 --> 00:22:48,300
heard the detractor say about it.

431
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,670
And there obviously are those people, but
when you start getting in the practice,

432
00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:56,007
like the real world, the majority of
people, aren't these people we're talking

433
00:22:56,007 --> 00:22:57,442
about or the early adopters.

434
00:22:57,442 --> 00:23:01,213
And there is, it kind of goes back to even
the conversation we were having last week.

435
00:23:01,213 --> 00:23:04,683
or Matt around just kind of like the
optimism of where the industry is going.

436
00:23:04,683 --> 00:23:06,985
There's a lot of short term craziness.

437
00:23:06,985 --> 00:23:12,724
Uh, and I think 2024 is going to have a
lot of that, but I, yeah.

438
00:23:12,824 --> 00:23:18,530
just sort of interesting follow on that,
that sort of gets back to sort of the

439
00:23:18,530 --> 00:23:25,537
shock and awe from the legacy automakers
and Ford and GM that said, oh, we're going

440
00:23:25,537 --> 00:23:29,775
to go back and focus on hybrids, regular
hybrids and plug-in hybrids.

441
00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:35,747
And I know three or four years ago, I was
at the Hamtramck factory in...

442
00:23:37,649 --> 00:23:41,353
outside of Detroit where they were
launching the Hummer and the new plant and

443
00:23:41,353 --> 00:23:41,853
stuff like that.

444
00:23:41,853 --> 00:23:48,260
And I got to go back in a private room, me
and about four other writers, and talk to

445
00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:53,398
Mark Royce and I asked him about like, you
know, why they killed the volt and all

446
00:23:53,398 --> 00:23:54,166
that kind of stuff.

447
00:23:54,166 --> 00:23:58,270
And basically said, we're going to two
platforms.

448
00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:02,441
Ice and BEV and nothing in between.

449
00:24:02,808 --> 00:24:08,013
And it just, it, it boggled my mind
because you understand it from a cost

450
00:24:08,013 --> 00:24:09,147
perspective, right?

451
00:24:09,147 --> 00:24:13,852
And you understand it from a simplicity
perspective, only having two power trains

452
00:24:13,852 --> 00:24:19,024
platforms instead of, you know, four or
five, but from a market consumer adoption

453
00:24:19,024 --> 00:24:24,696
perspective, it just doesn't make sense
because we know to your point chase, you

454
00:24:24,696 --> 00:24:31,937
know, right now, about 1% of the vehicles
on the road in the U S are B E V's, right?

455
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:38,376
There are 282 million non-BEVs, whatever
it is on the road, right?

456
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:43,849
It's going to take 40 years to transition
the US population and vehicles out, which

457
00:24:43,849 --> 00:24:48,553
means a lot of people are going to go from
an ICE vehicle to a regular hybrid, to a

458
00:24:48,553 --> 00:24:50,755
plugin hybrid, to a full BEV.

459
00:24:50,755 --> 00:24:52,724
Some are going to go ICE to BEV.

460
00:24:52,724 --> 00:24:56,194
Some are going to go ICE to hybrid and
stay, whatever.

461
00:24:56,194 --> 00:24:58,797
Some are going to go ICE to plugin hybrid.

462
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:01,333
The reality is, is.

463
00:25:01,633 --> 00:25:05,837
You know, overnight, the population is
just not going to give up their ice

464
00:25:05,837 --> 00:25:10,809
vehicle and go in and be V, especially in
the middle of the country.

465
00:25:10,809 --> 00:25:11,610
Right.

466
00:25:11,643 --> 00:25:16,748
And so, and GM and Ford, which are strong
in the middle of the country.

467
00:25:17,616 --> 00:25:21,319
Like completely either didn't understand
that or didn't want to.

468
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:22,087
Right.

469
00:25:22,087 --> 00:25:26,491
And, you know, they should have focused on
like a plugin, hybrid lightning, et

470
00:25:26,491 --> 00:25:26,791
cetera.

471
00:25:26,791 --> 00:25:31,263
Like, you know, that's why the Ram, the
Ram, uh, extended range.

472
00:25:31,263 --> 00:25:35,033
Plug-in hybrid is going to be fascinating
to see how it's going to do.

473
00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:35,700
Right.

474
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:36,968
I think it's going to do really well.

475
00:25:36,968 --> 00:25:37,869
We'll see.

476
00:25:37,869 --> 00:25:41,806
But you know, they just, it just like,
again, I know I'm sort of being

477
00:25:41,806 --> 00:25:47,112
melodramatic here, but how they don't
understand the market.

478
00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:47,479
for sure.

479
00:25:47,479 --> 00:25:50,782
And I think this is a little bit of one of
the areas we disagree a little bit.

480
00:25:50,782 --> 00:25:53,685
And it's not that we necessarily disagree.

481
00:25:53,685 --> 00:25:57,989
I'm just waiting to see that P has proved
to actually be what people want.

482
00:25:58,523 --> 00:26:02,494
John, I'd like to get your thoughts on
this because you talk a lot about how you

483
00:26:02,494 --> 00:26:06,164
think one hybrids in general are just
marketed horribly.

484
00:26:06,164 --> 00:26:08,400
And that they should be it shouldn't be
like this is a hybrid.

485
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,336
This is a PM is like this car gets you 50
miles per gallon.

486
00:26:11,336 --> 00:26:13,705
Right, yeah, no, that's what I've been
saying all along.

487
00:26:13,705 --> 00:26:17,609
Look, like everything else in this
country, even hybrids have been

488
00:26:17,609 --> 00:26:18,910
politicized.

489
00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:22,747
You know, first the anti-green movement
attacked hybrids.

490
00:26:22,747 --> 00:26:24,449
You know, now they've sort of forgotten
hybrids.

491
00:26:24,449 --> 00:26:26,017
They're attacking peps.

492
00:26:26,084 --> 00:26:29,921
But I told Honda years ago, you want to
sell more hybrids?

493
00:26:29,921 --> 00:26:31,656
Stop calling them hybrids.

494
00:26:31,656 --> 00:26:36,361
Because if you go to a cocktail party, a
dinner party, meet with friends and you

495
00:26:36,361 --> 00:26:39,130
start telling people, okay, guess what, I
drive a hybrid.

496
00:26:39,130 --> 00:26:41,900
they immediately categorize you.

497
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,905
You're a left leaning, greenie, tree
hugging, eco whatever.

498
00:26:47,072 --> 00:26:54,012
And so, I said to Honda, now I'm telling
everybody, just say, hey, you wanna get

499
00:26:54,012 --> 00:26:54,479
that one?

500
00:26:54,479 --> 00:26:56,314
That one gets 50 miles to the gallon.

501
00:26:56,314 --> 00:26:58,316
That's our high mileage model.

502
00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:01,519
Don't call it a hybrid because it's become
stigmatized.

503
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:07,659
Now, having said that, hybrids are
starting to gain more general acceptance.

504
00:27:07,659 --> 00:27:12,330
And again, I think it's because everybody
who's anti-green is attacking that.

505
00:27:12,931 --> 00:27:17,202
Well, it's funny what you're bringing up
is number one, it's all about branding and

506
00:27:17,202 --> 00:27:18,236
communication.

507
00:27:18,536 --> 00:27:21,306
And number two is this all has to do with
fuel.

508
00:27:21,439 --> 00:27:22,007
100%.

509
00:27:22,807 --> 00:27:24,175
Everything about what we're talking about.

510
00:27:24,175 --> 00:27:26,745
If you're talking about going from a gas
car to a hybrid to plug-in hybrid to pure

511
00:27:26,745 --> 00:27:32,150
electric, that is the lily pad process of
switching from pure gas to a mixture of

512
00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:36,187
gas and battery that you don't plug in to
a gas and a battery that you do plug in to

513
00:27:36,187 --> 00:27:37,522
a battery that you plug in.

514
00:27:37,522 --> 00:27:41,059
And all of that has to do with the user
experience of the car of the person who

515
00:27:41,059 --> 00:27:41,993
buys it says

516
00:27:41,993 --> 00:27:43,928
How do I fill this thing up?

517
00:27:43,928 --> 00:27:44,829
That's it.

518
00:27:45,296 --> 00:27:48,600
And we've overthought this and
overcomplicated the hell out of it for the

519
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,802
last 20 years, basically.

520
00:27:50,802 --> 00:27:52,303
But John, I think you're spot on.

521
00:27:52,303 --> 00:27:56,841
It's like, if you know that it's
stigmatized, don't say hybrid.

522
00:27:56,841 --> 00:27:59,644
But then the problem is we see the cute
stuff that comes out of OEMs where they're

523
00:27:59,644 --> 00:28:03,648
saying things like, our electrified fleet,
where they say things like, this is

524
00:28:03,648 --> 00:28:04,115
electric.

525
00:28:04,115 --> 00:28:07,752
And my response is, if it doesn't get
filled up with electricity, that's not

526
00:28:07,752 --> 00:28:08,386
electric.

527
00:28:08,386 --> 00:28:11,056
And somewhere, somehow, we have to have
even

528
00:28:11,056 --> 00:28:13,958
government regulation like FTC or
something say, hey, look, you guys can't

529
00:28:13,958 --> 00:28:17,062
do that because that's also adding further
confusion.

530
00:28:17,062 --> 00:28:20,765
And that's to the point of chase on our
last call, people see you in your car and

531
00:28:20,765 --> 00:28:22,500
they go, yeah, but where's the gas go in
it?

532
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:23,535
It's like, no, it's a pure electric.

533
00:28:23,535 --> 00:28:25,136
Yeah, but where's the gas go in it?

534
00:28:25,136 --> 00:28:27,505
That's because they equate gas to cars.

535
00:28:27,605 --> 00:28:30,308
We have a fundamental lack of
understanding around fuel options.

536
00:28:30,308 --> 00:28:33,812
and like I said, last, uh, last month,
someone came up to me and like, I don't, I

537
00:28:33,812 --> 00:28:35,013
mean, Tesla's cool.

538
00:28:35,013 --> 00:28:35,847
I get it.

539
00:28:35,847 --> 00:28:39,350
They got the software, but I really don't
get why I would buy that over at Toyota.

540
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:40,952
And I was like, why is that?

541
00:28:40,952 --> 00:28:42,520
And they said, well, you got to put gas on
it.

542
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,156
So what's really, why is this company
worth so much?

543
00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:48,293
And I mean, and it's not like this was an
unintelligent person.

544
00:28:48,293 --> 00:28:50,228
They just are like most people.

545
00:28:50,228 --> 00:28:55,733
I'm pretty passive in following the, the
automotive industry and to show that

546
00:28:55,733 --> 00:28:56,634
that's still a thing.

547
00:28:56,634 --> 00:28:57,602
And I think.

548
00:28:57,669 --> 00:29:01,439
There's, there's two things I want to say
real quickly that, uh, I know Lauren,

549
00:29:01,439 --> 00:29:03,942
you're probably going to want to refute
cause this is, uh, kind of bashes the

550
00:29:03,942 --> 00:29:04,909
whole P have thing.

551
00:29:04,909 --> 00:29:09,447
One, uh, I just want to reiterate, John, I
completely agree with it, they should just

552
00:29:09,447 --> 00:29:10,415
drop the hybrid.

553
00:29:10,415 --> 00:29:11,549
It just makes it more complicated.

554
00:29:11,549 --> 00:29:13,551
Just say you get good gas mileage.

555
00:29:13,551 --> 00:29:20,725
And this is the exact reason why my, uh,
mother-in-law, uh, they recently, I guess

556
00:29:20,725 --> 00:29:25,597
past summer, they bought a Tesla model Y
replacing an old Mercedes and they liked

557
00:29:25,597 --> 00:29:26,264
it, but

558
00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:28,066
They had another car they were going to
finally replace.

559
00:29:28,066 --> 00:29:33,938
And so they replaced that car with the
Volvo XC 90 P have thing.

560
00:29:34,272 --> 00:29:39,077
And every issue she's had with it has been
on the hybrid side and she's been

561
00:29:39,077 --> 00:29:43,515
constantly disappointed by how slow it
charges and all of these other issues.

562
00:29:43,515 --> 00:29:44,883
And what does she do with it?

563
00:29:44,883 --> 00:29:49,120
She rarely, she, if she's at home, she'll
plug it in to do like around down, which

564
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,021
is great.

565
00:29:50,021 --> 00:29:51,022
Most people don't do that.

566
00:29:51,022 --> 00:29:52,957
And it's only cause they already had a
Tesla charger.

567
00:29:52,957 --> 00:29:55,026
Most of the time she just fills it with
gas.

568
00:29:55,493 --> 00:29:58,930
And I think that kind of defeats a, I
mean, yeah, you're probably getting

569
00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:03,134
better, uh, MPGs, but like for all the
other infrastructure, you have to put in a

570
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:06,204
card and make it a P have versus just
focus on making it like a traditional

571
00:30:06,204 --> 00:30:06,604
hybrid.

572
00:30:06,604 --> 00:30:08,840
I don't know.

573
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,310
I'm I, in theory, in theory, it sounds
great.

574
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:14,646
And theory sounds great in practicality.

575
00:30:14,946 --> 00:30:18,249
Still not sold yet, but prove me wrong,
Lauren, prove me wrong.

576
00:30:18,550 --> 00:30:22,754
mean, we could argue about plugin hybrids
for like two hours, right?

577
00:30:22,754 --> 00:30:29,127
And the reality is some people do not plug
in their plugin hybrids, right?

578
00:30:29,127 --> 00:30:33,264
The reality is a lot of people actually
do, right?

579
00:30:33,264 --> 00:30:41,272
And it's old data at this point, but sort
of in the early days, there was some

580
00:30:41,272 --> 00:30:44,542
really good analysis around the Chevrolet
Volt.

581
00:30:44,542 --> 00:30:44,876
Right.

582
00:30:44,876 --> 00:30:50,415
And basically it was about 80% of the
miles driven were on electric and that in

583
00:30:50,415 --> 00:30:55,220
the majority of the volt drivers plugged
in and you know, if we had John Volcker

584
00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:58,990
on, he would be like, you know, screaming
at this point, right.

585
00:30:58,990 --> 00:31:04,696
Um, cause that's his whole big thing is
about the, do people actually plug in.

586
00:31:04,696 --> 00:31:10,301
The reality is if you make a quality
plugin hybrid that has 40 plus miles of

587
00:31:10,301 --> 00:31:13,204
range and the right buyer.

588
00:31:13,838 --> 00:31:16,875
they will plug it in 99% of the time.

589
00:31:17,041 --> 00:31:23,715
Now, if you have somebody that goes and
gets a Jeep Wrangler 4XE and gets a lease

590
00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:29,854
of $289 a month because of the federal tax
ev credit and Stellantis wanting to sell a

591
00:31:29,854 --> 00:31:35,159
bunch of them, those people don't even
know it has a plug, right?

592
00:31:35,226 --> 00:31:37,061
And they will never plug it in, right?

593
00:31:37,061 --> 00:31:37,762
So...

594
00:31:39,831 --> 00:31:44,068
You know, and it only has what, it's 21
miles of electric range, right?

595
00:31:44,068 --> 00:31:49,941
But so I think there's sort of it's, it's
the problem is not the technology, right?

596
00:31:49,941 --> 00:31:55,580
The problem is, is it a compelling plugin
hybrid and reeducating sort of the buyers

597
00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:57,048
around it, right?

598
00:31:57,248 --> 00:31:59,651
Um, and yeah.

599
00:31:59,651 --> 00:32:02,654
we do have to, we've been focused on
charging for quite a while.

600
00:32:02,654 --> 00:32:04,789
We're now kind of slipping into the car
side of stuff for sure.

601
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:08,660
But, uh, the one thing I wanted to cover
also, and just get, especially your

602
00:32:08,660 --> 00:32:11,029
perspective on Lauren is the Navy side of
this.

603
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:15,600
We've kind of talked about charging
around, uh, the feds and how they've kind

604
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:16,434
of been looking at this.

605
00:32:16,434 --> 00:32:20,838
And I just want to, since you are kind of
the king of figuring out how this is being

606
00:32:20,838 --> 00:32:26,778
rolled out, what has been your takeaways
from 2023 and anything, uh,

607
00:32:26,778 --> 00:32:30,048
real quickly that you're optimistic about
going into the next year about it.

608
00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:36,154
Yeah, so as of this very moment, I'm
looking over here at my printout.

609
00:32:36,487 --> 00:32:46,531
Twenty-seven, twenty-six states have
opened their Nevi RFP or actually awarded.

610
00:32:46,998 --> 00:32:54,706
So in essence, half of the states have
started the process or actually, what is

611
00:32:54,706 --> 00:32:59,677
it, awarded, twelve states have actually
announced awards, right?

612
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:03,681
We're actually moving pretty quickly.

613
00:33:03,681 --> 00:33:08,086
There's been a lot of articles and
headlines, um, around how slow it's

614
00:33:08,086 --> 00:33:13,091
moving, but, but we have to rec realize
that the, the final rules actually weren't

615
00:33:13,091 --> 00:33:18,196
approved until March, this is an entirely
new procurement process.

616
00:33:18,196 --> 00:33:23,501
Some of the States like Minnesota actually
had to pass a law to be able to actually.

617
00:33:23,901 --> 00:33:25,603
Do use the, the.

618
00:33:25,603 --> 00:33:28,373
the Nevi funding procurement process,
right?

619
00:33:28,373 --> 00:33:29,440
It's very complex.

620
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,310
Every state is developing their own RFPs.

621
00:33:32,377 --> 00:33:35,413
They don't know anything about EVs and EV
charging, right?

622
00:33:35,413 --> 00:33:42,086
So the fact that half of them have already
like released RFPs and stuff is actually

623
00:33:42,086 --> 00:33:43,988
fairly impressive.

624
00:33:44,922 --> 00:33:46,491
Now we have...

625
00:33:46,824 --> 00:33:52,563
Some states that may not even release
their first RFP until 2025, the laggards

626
00:33:52,563 --> 00:33:55,867
like Wyoming and Missouri and South
Carolina.

627
00:33:56,067 --> 00:34:02,206
So we have this real dichotomy of like
Ohio, Maine, Pennsylvania, and Colorado

628
00:34:02,206 --> 00:34:04,942
are already on round two, right?

629
00:34:05,943 --> 00:34:09,113
And, you know, and so they're moving very
quickly.

630
00:34:09,113 --> 00:34:13,751
So the sort of the short answer is, is
we're doing actually better than the

631
00:34:13,751 --> 00:34:15,219
headlines would say.

632
00:34:15,219 --> 00:34:19,390
But a lot of states are just clueless and
moving sort of really slowly.

633
00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:25,029
Um, but the sort of the larger picture is,
is people are putting too much importance

634
00:34:25,029 --> 00:34:27,398
on Nevi from a numbers perspective.

635
00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:32,870
Nevi is going to fund a very tiny
percentage of the DC fast chargers that,

636
00:34:32,870 --> 00:34:34,072
that are going to be deployed.

637
00:34:34,072 --> 00:34:40,411
We had over 10,000 deployed new fast
charging ports deployed in the US last

638
00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:43,448
year, eight of those were funded by Nevi.

639
00:34:43,514 --> 00:34:44,248
Right.

640
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:52,190
In 2024, we're going to probably have, my
estimate is 13,500, 15,000 new fast

641
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:55,393
charging ports deployed, maybe a thousand
of those.

642
00:34:55,393 --> 00:34:59,063
So six to 7% will be in the Nevi funded.

643
00:34:59,397 --> 00:35:06,237
So it's like Nevi is not building out our
infrastructure in sort of volume and mass,

644
00:35:06,237 --> 00:35:08,473
what it is doing that's important.

645
00:35:08,473 --> 00:35:13,377
It's a putting them in places that the
charging networks like EVgo and Electrify

646
00:35:13,377 --> 00:35:14,312
America

647
00:35:14,912 --> 00:35:18,082
haven't been putting them because they
don't make economic sense.

648
00:35:18,082 --> 00:35:23,754
So what it's making them is more viable
from an economics perspective to put out

649
00:35:23,754 --> 00:35:26,824
in the middle of Wyoming where nobody's
going to put them.

650
00:35:26,858 --> 00:35:31,095
But that allows you, Chase, to go on those
road trips.

651
00:35:31,095 --> 00:35:32,430
it's funny you mentioned Wyoming.

652
00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:37,101
That was the closest I have come to
running out of juice in a long time.

653
00:35:37,101 --> 00:35:40,972
Those headwinds on IAD, uh, especially
when you're doing 80 miles an hour.

654
00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:45,309
Uh, and even the trucks are, that was
probably the closest I've been to in a

655
00:35:45,309 --> 00:35:49,447
while and I had to do, once again, this
was like even driving that Tesla it's as

656
00:35:49,447 --> 00:35:53,117
easy as it gets when it comes that I still
had to do some math to kind of realize I

657
00:35:53,117 --> 00:35:55,953
need to slow down or I need to do
something a little different to make sure

658
00:35:55,953 --> 00:35:56,988
I get there.

659
00:35:57,255 --> 00:35:57,588
Uh,

660
00:35:57,588 --> 00:35:59,423
And that's just still not practical for
most people.

661
00:35:59,423 --> 00:36:02,527
And to your point exactly, there's a lot
of Wyoming.

662
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:03,528
It's, it's, it's funny.

663
00:36:03,528 --> 00:36:06,063
The States that are the laggards are some
of the States you probably need it the

664
00:36:06,063 --> 00:36:06,931
most.

665
00:36:07,632 --> 00:36:07,832
Yeah.

666
00:36:07,832 --> 00:36:14,906
sort of wrap it up, I think the other
thing that's important about Nevi is two

667
00:36:14,906 --> 00:36:19,710
quick things is one is we actually have
some minimum standards and accountability.

668
00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:23,714
I mean, 97 percent uptime is sort of a low
bar, right?

669
00:36:23,714 --> 00:36:28,653
That means that a charger is down 11 days
a year and we think that's OK.

670
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,725
But at least we have a minimum standard
and we have accountability because if you.

671
00:36:35,259 --> 00:36:40,665
win a Nevi contract and you don't meet the
97% uptime, the state can either take

672
00:36:40,665 --> 00:36:44,168
money away from you, penalize it, not give
you further money.

673
00:36:44,168 --> 00:36:46,871
We haven't had that accountability before.

674
00:36:47,672 --> 00:36:54,145
And the other thing that just to sort of
close out, I'll say is the Nevi, the $5

675
00:36:54,145 --> 00:37:00,184
billion of Nevi is attracting a lot of
companies and business that are actually.

676
00:37:00,785 --> 00:37:03,120
may not have sort of deployed and built
before.

677
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,790
Like it's, I call it sort of like the
honeypot, right?

678
00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:11,162
And so it's actually having a spillover
effect that a lot of, lot more chargers

679
00:37:11,162 --> 00:37:16,267
and better companies are getting into the
space with the potential to win money, but

680
00:37:16,267 --> 00:37:19,637
most of the time they're not gonna win it,
but then they're moving forward anyway,

681
00:37:19,637 --> 00:37:20,237
so.

682
00:37:20,371 --> 00:37:23,808
Yeah, actually that kind of brings up two
things real quickly.

683
00:37:23,808 --> 00:37:26,310
One pop quiz, John, what does Nevi stand
for?

684
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:29,814
Since some people listening probably know,
but don't actually know the acronym.

685
00:37:29,814 --> 00:37:33,851
Yeah, I'm sure the E stands for electric.

686
00:37:33,851 --> 00:37:36,821
And that's about as much as I can tell
you.

687
00:37:36,954 --> 00:37:40,625
because I'm even trying to remember it's
national electric vehicle infrastructure.

688
00:37:41,392 --> 00:37:41,559
Oh, okay.

689
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:42,260
Okay.

690
00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:42,994
Nice.

691
00:37:43,861 --> 00:37:44,228
Uh,

692
00:37:44,228 --> 00:37:47,565
here's my question to you guys, because
you know way more about charging than I

693
00:37:47,565 --> 00:37:48,232
do.

694
00:37:48,299 --> 00:37:52,303
I question the whole business model of
public charging.

695
00:37:52,303 --> 00:37:56,807
And the reason I say that is, try to find
a gas station anymore that only sells

696
00:37:56,807 --> 00:37:57,875
gasoline.

697
00:37:57,875 --> 00:37:59,143
They don't exist.

698
00:37:59,143 --> 00:37:59,477
Why?

699
00:37:59,477 --> 00:38:02,813
Because they don't make their profit
selling gasoline or diesel.

700
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,885
Number one profit for a gas station,
profit product.

701
00:38:07,985 --> 00:38:11,122
You know those sort of rotisseries with
hot dogs on them?

702
00:38:11,555 --> 00:38:14,792
Number one profit for gas stations that
carry that.

703
00:38:14,859 --> 00:38:20,331
So they make their profit selling hot
dogs, lottery tickets and cigarettes.

704
00:38:20,498 --> 00:38:22,166
And that's where they really make it.

705
00:38:22,166 --> 00:38:26,470
And so all these public charging stations,
how do they make their profit?

706
00:38:26,504 --> 00:38:27,638
Selling electricity.

707
00:38:27,638 --> 00:38:30,908
So they buy it at wholesale, mark it up
for retail, right?

708
00:38:31,142 --> 00:38:34,211
I'm not at all convinced that is a viable
business model.

709
00:38:34,211 --> 00:38:36,547
Well, that's not a viable business model,
number one.

710
00:38:36,547 --> 00:38:39,784
But number two is most of the networks
don't make their money off of selling

711
00:38:39,784 --> 00:38:40,851
electricity.

712
00:38:40,985 --> 00:38:45,089
Most of the third party networks, their
entire revenue model is based on, we will

713
00:38:45,089 --> 00:38:50,528
sell you hardware and software to this
municipality, to that B&B, to that mall,

714
00:38:50,528 --> 00:38:51,796
to that whomever.

715
00:38:51,796 --> 00:38:54,932
And then the revenue model they have is
based on saying, we'll put your charger

716
00:38:54,932 --> 00:38:58,636
that you just installed on our network in
this app, and then we'll charge you X

717
00:38:58,636 --> 00:39:01,672
dollars a month for a software
subscription to have visibility into

718
00:39:01,672 --> 00:39:02,973
managing that thing.

719
00:39:02,973 --> 00:39:04,709
And that's what we're selling you.

720
00:39:04,775 --> 00:39:08,379
Then when we talked, Chase and I talked to
someone on the last episode, is then if

721
00:39:08,379 --> 00:39:11,816
there's a ribbon cutting moment, and then
a day later, somebody backs into that

722
00:39:11,816 --> 00:39:16,087
charger and it doesn't work for six
months, no one's mining the store, but

723
00:39:16,087 --> 00:39:18,489
they keep paying that software
subscription and that network keeps making

724
00:39:18,489 --> 00:39:19,056
money.

725
00:39:19,056 --> 00:39:25,062
So the business model in that way, in my
opinion, is what has really led to OEMs

726
00:39:25,062 --> 00:39:29,367
like Ford and others having this aha
moment of, whoa, wait a minute.

727
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,770
You guys aren't owning the charging
experience.

728
00:39:32,770 --> 00:39:35,773
You guys are just deploying these things
with government grants and God knows

729
00:39:35,773 --> 00:39:38,676
whoever's going to pay you and you don't
even care if it's actually working.

730
00:39:38,676 --> 00:39:43,314
And they're like, well, not really because
we're making money and oops, sorry.

731
00:39:43,314 --> 00:39:45,449
And the VCs are all going, Whoa, wait a
minute.

732
00:39:45,449 --> 00:39:48,018
We just funded this and that's what you.

733
00:39:48,285 --> 00:39:49,086
What?

734
00:39:49,186 --> 00:39:52,857
And so all of a sudden we see all these
networks that have been, you know, seen as

735
00:39:52,857 --> 00:39:54,325
okay, that's what it's going to be.

736
00:39:54,325 --> 00:39:58,362
The moment, the moment Jim Farley said
we're switching to Tesla's connector and

737
00:39:58,362 --> 00:40:01,565
we're going to leverage the supercharger
network, every third party network just

738
00:40:01,565 --> 00:40:02,233
had to go.

739
00:40:02,233 --> 00:40:02,800
Oh.

740
00:40:03,067 --> 00:40:06,504
God, you know, because they actually have
to own the experience.

741
00:40:06,504 --> 00:40:10,708
And so the model, as you describe, there
is your first take on, there's no money

742
00:40:10,708 --> 00:40:11,909
in, in reselling electricity.

743
00:40:11,909 --> 00:40:12,743
There isn't.

744
00:40:12,743 --> 00:40:15,513
And every time an EV owner pulls up to a
charging station where they look at the

745
00:40:15,513 --> 00:40:20,050
price and it says, you know, 89 cents a
kilowatt hour, those who do the quick math

746
00:40:20,050 --> 00:40:24,021
go, holy crap, that's an expensive fill
up.

747
00:40:24,021 --> 00:40:27,191
And so I agree with you in the sense that
that's not a good model.

748
00:40:27,191 --> 00:40:30,094
And the model that does exist where people
have been just basically making money off

749
00:40:30,094 --> 00:40:32,763
software subscriptions and not making good
charging experiences.

750
00:40:32,763 --> 00:40:34,698
That's also damaging and it's not
long-term.

751
00:40:34,698 --> 00:40:36,300
So yeah, there's a.

752
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:37,902
to the EV market?

753
00:40:38,035 --> 00:40:41,739
So, I mean, yeah, I mean.

754
00:40:41,739 --> 00:40:46,076
are talking about consolidation, which
we've already seen, along with some just

755
00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:47,044
going out of business.

756
00:40:47,044 --> 00:40:48,646
But what were you going to say there,
Lauren?

757
00:40:48,646 --> 00:40:54,452
I was just going to say, John, I mean, the
reality is the industry is shifting.

758
00:40:54,452 --> 00:40:54,785
Right?

759
00:40:54,785 --> 00:40:59,223
So we had a lot of the charging networks,
just as Matt said, their business model

760
00:40:59,223 --> 00:41:02,359
was basically to get grants and
incentives.

761
00:41:02,359 --> 00:41:05,796
I won't mention some of the company's
names, but there's some of these charging

762
00:41:05,796 --> 00:41:11,469
networks that fundamentally are grant and
incentives companies.

763
00:41:11,469 --> 00:41:17,208
Their business model is to get the grants
that makes the business somewhat viable.

764
00:41:17,741 --> 00:41:20,511
remains to see if it will be viable or
not.

765
00:41:20,778 --> 00:41:25,850
And then they go and they find a
McDonald's franchisee or a hotel owner or

766
00:41:25,850 --> 00:41:30,354
a shopping mall or whatever, they do a
lease, they drop the chargers in.

767
00:41:30,554 --> 00:41:35,025
And just as Matt said, then it's about
software and revenue share and different

768
00:41:35,025 --> 00:41:36,193
things like that.

769
00:41:36,393 --> 00:41:39,230
But the industry is shifting.

770
00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:45,269
And so when I track sort of Neve, and
roughly 80% of all the winning bids are

771
00:41:45,269 --> 00:41:46,036
from

772
00:41:47,404 --> 00:41:54,044
either the convenience store chain slash
travel, travel centers, travel stops, or

773
00:41:54,278 --> 00:41:58,816
it's a charging network or other company
that's hosting it at convenience stores,

774
00:41:59,216 --> 00:42:01,218
like chains and travel stops.

775
00:42:01,218 --> 00:42:06,790
So fundamentally, the industry is pivoting
towards these large companies, the pilot

776
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:11,562
flying J's, the circle K's, the seven
11's, the loves all these, they're the

777
00:42:11,562 --> 00:42:14,732
ones that are now getting into the
business they're going to dominate in the

778
00:42:14,732 --> 00:42:15,633
future.

779
00:42:15,733 --> 00:42:21,372
And so the model, John is, is going to be
just like gas, which is what they want is,

780
00:42:21,372 --> 00:42:26,076
and what they're, they finally figured out
is somebody sitting there with their car

781
00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:31,582
parked for 30 to 45 minutes while it's
charging, they're inside getting the

782
00:42:31,582 --> 00:42:36,020
rotisserie chicken, getting the coffee,
getting the lottery tickets, checking

783
00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:41,559
wifi, you know, getting the, um, you know,
the

784
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:44,261
the slurpy, like whatever it is, right?

785
00:42:44,261 --> 00:42:46,397
And they're spending their time there.

786
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:48,732
That's $20, right?

787
00:42:48,732 --> 00:42:50,334
That they just spent.

788
00:42:50,334 --> 00:42:55,239
And then all of a sudden that experience
combined with the charging actually is

789
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,440
profitable.

790
00:42:56,941 --> 00:43:01,145
But, but just the selling the pennies, you
know, I mean, gas makes what, about 4

791
00:43:01,145 --> 00:43:06,183
cents a gallon profit for most gas
stations and ultimately electricity and

792
00:43:06,183 --> 00:43:08,452
charging is about, about the same.

793
00:43:08,485 --> 00:43:08,886
Right.

794
00:43:08,886 --> 00:43:09,119
But.

795
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,957
couldn't you make the argument the person
who makes the most off gas is the feds

796
00:43:12,957 --> 00:43:15,292
just with gas tax and everything else?

797
00:43:16,226 --> 00:43:20,965
But I realize this also another topic I
think we could easily talk about for an

798
00:43:20,965 --> 00:43:21,966
hour because you're totally right.

799
00:43:21,966 --> 00:43:26,570
The profit margin and then you start
getting into, you look at some of the

800
00:43:26,570 --> 00:43:31,108
deals like VW or Electrify America made
for their cars for unlimited charging and

801
00:43:31,108 --> 00:43:35,512
that causes all sorts of conundrums at the
actual charging locations if it works.

802
00:43:35,713 --> 00:43:36,413
But

803
00:43:36,714 --> 00:43:40,784
One final thing on this topic, so we can
kind of move on to the car side of stuff.

804
00:43:41,118 --> 00:43:45,422
What, uh, one thing that stood out to me,
Lauren, in our conversation was.

805
00:43:45,522 --> 00:43:50,194
We kind of came to the agreement that Nevi
funding was actually kind of slowing down

806
00:43:50,194 --> 00:43:55,466
the rollout of a lot of, uh, DC fast
charging chargers.

807
00:43:55,466 --> 00:43:56,834
Do you still feel that way?

808
00:43:56,834 --> 00:43:59,737
Or are you starting to see things kind of
pick up and change?

809
00:43:59,737 --> 00:44:06,877
Yeah, I think there was this moment like
six months ago where a lot of companies

810
00:44:06,877 --> 00:44:09,546
were sort of drooling over the NEVI
funding.

811
00:44:09,546 --> 00:44:12,016
And so they sort of put things on hold.

812
00:44:13,317 --> 00:44:16,453
I talked to like engineering firms and
stuff who worked with all the major

813
00:44:16,453 --> 00:44:19,623
charging networks and they said their
business just dropped, stopped, just

814
00:44:19,623 --> 00:44:20,991
completely stopped.

815
00:44:22,526 --> 00:44:26,030
And then I think what happened over the
last six months, they started to figure

816
00:44:26,030 --> 00:44:28,766
out and realize, oh crap, they started to
do that.

817
00:44:28,866 --> 00:44:31,902
Even if we win, we're not going to win
very much.

818
00:44:32,369 --> 00:44:36,573
Like the numbers didn't sort of add up.

819
00:44:36,573 --> 00:44:40,911
And so then everybody goes, oh, we have to
get back to what we were doing and just

820
00:44:40,911 --> 00:44:44,982
get back to our strategy and our plan of
building these things out.

821
00:44:44,982 --> 00:44:47,484
And so I think it's actually picked up.

822
00:44:47,584 --> 00:44:54,091
And I have like dozens of clients, Neve
clients in the space and a lot of them

823
00:44:54,324 --> 00:44:58,495
sort of pivoted to a strategy of.

824
00:44:58,562 --> 00:45:04,268
Nevi is nice, but it's a nice to have, not
a must have.

825
00:45:04,268 --> 00:45:11,508
In other words, their strategy is we're
going to build, you know, a hundred

826
00:45:11,508 --> 00:45:14,411
charging stations in 2024, whatever it is.

827
00:45:14,411 --> 00:45:16,847
And we're going to apply in several states
for funding.

828
00:45:16,847 --> 00:45:18,282
If we get the funding, great.

829
00:45:18,282 --> 00:45:21,318
If we don't, it doesn't change our
strategy.

830
00:45:21,318 --> 00:45:21,719
Right.

831
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,123
And so I think that's sort of the pivot
that has happened.

832
00:45:26,290 --> 00:45:26,824
Well, that's good to hear.

833
00:45:26,824 --> 00:45:30,094
And I think what's really interesting with
a lot of the stuff that you primarily I

834
00:45:30,094 --> 00:45:33,664
see on LinkedIn that you post for EV
adoption and kind of the research you show

835
00:45:33,664 --> 00:45:39,169
is kind of going to John's point where
there are a lot of the traditional DC fast

836
00:45:39,169 --> 00:45:42,940
charging companies that are applying for
this, but a good portion too, are like the

837
00:45:42,940 --> 00:45:46,477
loves the flying J's, the pilots of the
world that are also now trying to make

838
00:45:46,477 --> 00:45:49,413
that transition and get a part of the
money that's being offered.

839
00:45:49,413 --> 00:45:54,451
So, uh, once again, short-term chaos, but
hopefully long-term ease for more EV

840
00:45:54,451 --> 00:45:55,419
drivers.

841
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,890
So finally, John, pop quiz again.

842
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:01,391
What does Nevi stand for?

843
00:46:02,359 --> 00:46:05,095
National electric vehicle infrastructure.

844
00:46:06,563 --> 00:46:07,931
I was paying attention.

845
00:46:08,499 --> 00:46:12,936
I didn't doubt that you were, but I'm glad
that, uh, this podcast, which we strive

846
00:46:12,936 --> 00:46:13,670
for education.

847
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:16,406
So I'm glad that you've at least learned
that.

848
00:46:16,406 --> 00:46:18,208
Uh, cause I know I've already learned a
lot.

849
00:46:18,208 --> 00:46:23,046
So with that, let's actually get, I think,
into the auto industry and kind of the car

850
00:46:23,046 --> 00:46:24,815
side of stuff that we saw in 2023.

851
00:46:25,582 --> 00:46:31,855
And, um, I think there was a lot just
around, obviously probably the big car.

852
00:46:31,855 --> 00:46:37,461
At least in the last month or two, when it
comes to, uh, headlines or anything viral

853
00:46:37,461 --> 00:46:39,997
has been kind of the cyber truck finally
delivering.

854
00:46:39,997 --> 00:46:43,867
And I'm just kind of curious, John, as
someone who's in the heart of Detroit with

855
00:46:43,867 --> 00:46:46,637
all the news that's been made about this,
even though there's like, I don't know,

856
00:46:46,637 --> 00:46:50,707
maybe 20 on the road and maybe that's
rounding up what, what are takeaways,

857
00:46:50,707 --> 00:46:55,045
especially with the manufacturers that are
the ones that are the traditional truck

858
00:46:55,045 --> 00:46:57,214
makers of North America.

859
00:46:57,414 --> 00:47:00,317
Well, number one, I mean, there's a whole
lot to the story, right?

860
00:47:00,317 --> 00:47:05,455
So what we've seen so far is traditional
truck buyers are not going to buy the

861
00:47:05,455 --> 00:47:09,860
Cybertruck, a small percentage of them
might, but the vast majority are like, you

862
00:47:09,860 --> 00:47:11,795
know, that thing just looks too goofy.

863
00:47:11,795 --> 00:47:13,530
I don't want anything to do with it.

864
00:47:13,530 --> 00:47:16,667
They're the most conservative buyers in
the marketplace.

865
00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:22,472
You know, you can have my full-size body
on frame V8 powered or twin turbo V6

866
00:47:22,472 --> 00:47:23,440
pickup when you cook.

867
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,943
peel my cold dead fingers off of it.

868
00:47:26,009 --> 00:47:29,246
And look at who's buying the Ford F-150
Lightning.

869
00:47:29,246 --> 00:47:31,181
They are not pickup buyers.

870
00:47:31,181 --> 00:47:32,216
Ford has been stunned.

871
00:47:32,216 --> 00:47:35,319
These are people for the first time ever
getting into the pickup segment.

872
00:47:35,319 --> 00:47:38,455
In fact, most of them have never even
bought a Ford before.

873
00:47:38,488 --> 00:47:46,597
And so, I'm thinking, look, the Cybertruck
is the greatest, look at me, look at me

874
00:47:46,597 --> 00:47:49,299
kind of vehicle you can be driving down
the street in.

875
00:47:49,299 --> 00:47:53,237
So I think it's going to appeal to people
who would normally maybe look at

876
00:47:53,237 --> 00:47:57,241
you know, a Land Rover Defender, a Porsche
911.

877
00:47:57,808 --> 00:48:01,044
I take that personally as someone who has
a classic Land Rover Defender.

878
00:48:01,144 --> 00:48:06,550
But I will say, whenever I drive that
thing, I've been in quite a few different

879
00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:07,184
really nice cars.

880
00:48:07,184 --> 00:48:08,852
That thing gets the most attention.

881
00:48:08,852 --> 00:48:12,422
I will say it's the most like thumbs up
and high fives.

882
00:48:12,623 --> 00:48:15,025
But it's funny you should mention that.

883
00:48:15,025 --> 00:48:20,497
I think the Cybertruck, my gut feel, and
I'll leave it to Tesla to prove me wrong,

884
00:48:20,664 --> 00:48:25,202
it's not going to be in 150,000 a year
kind of numbers.

885
00:48:25,369 --> 00:48:27,905
I think it's gonna be a whole lot lower
than that.

886
00:48:29,172 --> 00:48:30,274
We'll have to see.

887
00:48:30,274 --> 00:48:34,077
So there's that part of what the legacies
are talking about.

888
00:48:34,578 --> 00:48:40,050
That's not a threat to our franchise
full-size pickup segment, but the smart

889
00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:40,817
ones.

890
00:48:41,051 --> 00:48:48,025
The people in the industry who really see
Tesla as a threat look at the technology

891
00:48:48,025 --> 00:48:50,761
in that truck and they are blown away.

892
00:48:50,794 --> 00:48:54,698
You know, from the way that the body
panels are formed with the giga castings

893
00:48:54,698 --> 00:49:00,137
to an ethernet system to 48 volts to, I
mean, the list just goes on and on.

894
00:49:00,137 --> 00:49:05,075
It is the most technologically advanced
vehicle that's ever been made.

895
00:49:05,142 --> 00:49:06,910
Yep.

896
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:09,379
I think landing I think John landing on
that is the most important part.

897
00:49:09,379 --> 00:49:12,716
And to your point, the smartest people
that understand what that vehicle actually

898
00:49:12,716 --> 00:49:15,886
is, is all about what you just described
it.

899
00:49:15,886 --> 00:49:19,790
It you know, it's a, you know, sheet metal
doorstop or something to people that look

900
00:49:19,790 --> 00:49:20,924
at it aesthetically, right.

901
00:49:20,924 --> 00:49:25,462
But when you get under the skin of it and
you go, Holy cow, they did some pretty

902
00:49:25,462 --> 00:49:27,898
crazy stuff to bring this thing to market.

903
00:49:27,898 --> 00:49:32,269
And what it then lends to for the future
of vehicle development, whether that's a

904
00:49:32,269 --> 00:49:33,971
truck or a car or what have you.

905
00:49:33,971 --> 00:49:35,372
That's the most important part.

906
00:49:35,372 --> 00:49:37,607
I think that, I think you're right on
that.

907
00:49:37,607 --> 00:49:39,876
It's the look at me car without a doubt.

908
00:49:39,876 --> 00:49:43,714
All my buddies that I knew back in
California long ago that had two wheel

909
00:49:43,714 --> 00:49:49,019
drive lifted trucks, like boy, the
Cybertruck's for them, you know, because

910
00:49:49,019 --> 00:49:50,821
they weren't taking those things off road.

911
00:49:50,854 --> 00:49:54,424
But beyond that, I think, you know,
Cybertruck and other vehicles that, you

912
00:49:54,424 --> 00:49:57,994
know, that came to market, I mean,
Cybertruck got the most play, obviously.

913
00:49:57,994 --> 00:50:00,731
It got the most attention because it took
forever to bring it to market.

914
00:50:00,731 --> 00:50:03,000
It is just an eye popping thing.

915
00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:06,503
I think that, do I think they're going to
get more sales out of it than others

916
00:50:06,503 --> 00:50:07,003
expect?

917
00:50:07,003 --> 00:50:07,604
I do.

918
00:50:07,604 --> 00:50:08,305
I really do.

919
00:50:08,305 --> 00:50:12,676
I think that the level to which people are
justifying buying expensive cars for

920
00:50:12,676 --> 00:50:15,612
people that have the income to do it is
kind of getting bonkers.

921
00:50:15,612 --> 00:50:17,080
Not kind of getting, it is bonkers.

922
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,951
It's crazy how, oh yeah, give me a seven
year loan on that hundred thousand dollar

923
00:50:20,951 --> 00:50:21,251
vehicle.

924
00:50:21,251 --> 00:50:22,552
I'll totally justify it.

925
00:50:22,552 --> 00:50:24,755
You know, it's, it's happening still.

926
00:50:24,755 --> 00:50:27,691
But then you're also seeing on the vehicle
side how we're seeing brands like

927
00:50:27,691 --> 00:50:28,592
Volkswagen and Mazda.

928
00:50:28,592 --> 00:50:32,028
I think it was yesterday they announced 0%
financing on 60 months.

929
00:50:32,062 --> 00:50:33,363
to get into some of their vehicles.

930
00:50:33,363 --> 00:50:37,634
So we're seeing a turn back to, we gotta
get more creative by getting how to move

931
00:50:37,634 --> 00:50:39,202
metal again.

932
00:50:39,202 --> 00:50:43,740
And so I think that on the EV side of it,
aside from Cybertruck, what are the

933
00:50:43,740 --> 00:50:44,374
standouts?

934
00:50:44,374 --> 00:50:49,479
Well, we're kind of getting to a place
where we have a market saturation of it's

935
00:50:49,479 --> 00:50:53,050
all starting to feel the same from a
vehicle perspective.

936
00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:56,119
So the differentiation then turns into
what we talked about earlier, which is

937
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,622
what else makes the vehicle stand out?

938
00:50:58,622 --> 00:51:01,591
And I think that's gonna be important
moving forward for sure.

939
00:51:01,858 --> 00:51:05,328
You know, and just, yeah, just a quick
follow up on John's point is absolutely

940
00:51:05,328 --> 00:51:05,562
right.

941
00:51:05,562 --> 00:51:12,836
Like, uh, people buying, uh, electric
pickups are not pickup buyers, right?

942
00:51:12,836 --> 00:51:18,308
Like that, that market is just pickup
buyers are not attracted to electric

943
00:51:18,308 --> 00:51:21,978
vehicles for the towing, just for the
image, for, for a lot of reasons.

944
00:51:21,978 --> 00:51:24,047
And I think there's some interesting
things.

945
00:51:24,047 --> 00:51:29,319
If you, if you look at the Rivian numbers,
so the Rivian R1S that's the three row

946
00:51:31,388 --> 00:51:36,560
is outselling the Rivian R1T, the sort of
the midsize, however you want to

947
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,029
characterize it, pickup, two to one.

948
00:51:39,596 --> 00:51:40,330
Right.

949
00:51:40,497 --> 00:51:44,134
And so this, again, I know this is my
theme for today, the third time I'm going

950
00:51:44,134 --> 00:51:49,973
to beat up the legacy automakers is how
did they not understand the pickup market,

951
00:51:49,973 --> 00:51:50,340
right?

952
00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:56,780
And that, that it was like, you know, that
all these F-150 owners, you know, that

953
00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:00,484
have are on their fourth one are going to
run out to buy the electric version.

954
00:52:00,484 --> 00:52:01,151
No.

955
00:52:01,151 --> 00:52:02,152
Right.

956
00:52:02,152 --> 00:52:08,692
Um, but also why didn't GM come out with
an electric Chevy Tahoe or whatever?

957
00:52:08,692 --> 00:52:13,830
Instead they did two Hummers, the
Silverado, et cetera.

958
00:52:14,564 --> 00:52:19,336
Like the Kia EV9 is going, you know, it's
biggest issue this year.

959
00:52:19,336 --> 00:52:21,705
Um, we only have one month of sales.

960
00:52:21,705 --> 00:52:24,641
I think it's like 1100, something like
that, right.

961
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:30,647
It's going to be gearing up production,
but you know, the market loves big.

962
00:52:30,747 --> 00:52:32,115
SUVs, right?

963
00:52:32,115 --> 00:52:38,221
So why didn't Ford and GM come out with,
you know, explorers and Tahos and

964
00:52:38,221 --> 00:52:43,593
expeditions that were electrified instead,
they went with the Silverado and the F-150

965
00:52:43,860 --> 00:52:44,327
Lightning.

966
00:52:44,327 --> 00:52:46,830
And we all know that pickup buyers weren't
going to buy them.

967
00:52:46,830 --> 00:52:52,102
Like I just, again, it just like boggles
my mind of what they were, they were

968
00:52:52,102 --> 00:52:52,769
thinking.

969
00:52:52,769 --> 00:52:57,140
I honestly, Lauren, I don't think it's
anything further than that's what they

970
00:52:57,140 --> 00:52:58,375
know.

971
00:52:58,375 --> 00:53:02,145
They look at what they do best and they
were like, well, we do trucks.

972
00:53:02,145 --> 00:53:02,746
That's what we do.

973
00:53:02,746 --> 00:53:08,051
And we have cultivated a buying public
that sees our brand in that way.

974
00:53:08,051 --> 00:53:12,589
And yeah, they make money on Silver Rod,
on Tahoe and Expedition and everything

975
00:53:12,589 --> 00:53:15,559
else, but it's not what makes their
volume.

976
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:17,427
It's not what makes them who they are as a
brand.

977
00:53:17,427 --> 00:53:20,964
So on one hand, it's almost like you give
them credit for taking the risk and being

978
00:53:20,964 --> 00:53:22,199
gutsy about it.

979
00:53:22,365 --> 00:53:25,869
I think Ford's positioning to say we're
going to call the Mach-E, the Mustang

980
00:53:25,869 --> 00:53:28,705
Mach-E and actually make the F-150, the
F-150 Lightning.

981
00:53:28,705 --> 00:53:31,575
To a certain extent, I'd give them some
credit for the fact that they made that

982
00:53:31,575 --> 00:53:31,942
leap.

983
00:53:31,942 --> 00:53:35,245
But then there's a line in the sand where
you say, but you also didn't fundamentally

984
00:53:35,245 --> 00:53:38,348
understand like what you're describing,
what you should have come to market with.

985
00:53:38,348 --> 00:53:40,717
It would have been the best selling option
for you at the time.

986
00:53:40,984 --> 00:53:43,954
I agree that there should be a plug-in
hybrid truck and that's where those should

987
00:53:43,954 --> 00:53:44,888
have started.

988
00:53:45,155 --> 00:53:49,059
I don't because of, I mean, pure physics
is not on the side of trucks right now for

989
00:53:49,059 --> 00:53:50,293
being electrified.

990
00:53:50,393 --> 00:53:51,294
It just isn't.

991
00:53:51,294 --> 00:53:51,895
So.

992
00:53:51,895 --> 00:53:54,965
Yeah, I think there's a lot we just
actually discussed right there.

993
00:53:54,965 --> 00:53:59,736
Um, no, I mean, what you're saying about
the Rivian R1S is so true.

994
00:53:59,736 --> 00:54:01,938
It is the new Land Rover Range Rover.

995
00:54:01,938 --> 00:54:03,540
It is the new minivan.

996
00:54:03,540 --> 00:54:06,042
I see them everywhere here.

997
00:54:06,242 --> 00:54:11,948
I mean, I will say this is in my personal
observations.

998
00:54:11,948 --> 00:54:13,149
This is limited data.

999
00:54:13,149 --> 00:54:18,388
Uh, there I have seen a lot of people,
generally women, which is great to see

1000
00:54:18,388 --> 00:54:20,156
that is connecting with that.

1001
00:54:20,156 --> 00:54:23,994
demographic buying large SUVs, usually
with a bunch of kids in the back.

1002
00:54:23,994 --> 00:54:27,330
They are usually going to a soccer game
where they're taking all the kids up to go

1003
00:54:27,330 --> 00:54:30,200
skiing here, but I mean, they are
everywhere here.

1004
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,835
They are the new.

1005
00:54:32,068 --> 00:54:38,041
Yeah, I just, I live out in, yeah, I live
out in, you know.

1006
00:54:38,041 --> 00:54:40,677
I think it's a much less controversial
design.

1007
00:54:40,677 --> 00:54:45,548
It's a simple design, but I, the only
thing kind of controversial about it is

1008
00:54:45,548 --> 00:54:45,982
the headlights.

1009
00:54:45,982 --> 00:54:46,916
Otherwise it looks good.

1010
00:54:46,916 --> 00:54:52,656
Uh, but what I think what's really funny
going back to, uh, also just real briefly

1011
00:54:52,656 --> 00:54:57,227
around kind of pickup truck buyers and the
Cybertruck, I know two contractors, one

1012
00:54:57,227 --> 00:55:02,465
has like a diesel 3,500 Ram dually

1013
00:55:02,465 --> 00:55:03,300
And he's a contractor.

1014
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:04,367
He uses the hell of it.

1015
00:55:04,367 --> 00:55:07,137
And another has a F three 50 King ranch.

1016
00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:11,941
They won't shut up talking about the cyber
truck, which to me is the most bizarre

1017
00:55:11,941 --> 00:55:13,476
thing I did not expect.

1018
00:55:13,476 --> 00:55:17,447
Uh, the second part to that is going
exactly to what you were saying, Matt,

1019
00:55:17,447 --> 00:55:21,217
about like the timing of these vehicles
released interest rates were really low,

1020
00:55:21,217 --> 00:55:24,888
the F one 50 lightning taking these
gambles and there was a lot of cars being

1021
00:55:24,888 --> 00:55:27,090
sold, it didn't seem as wild.

1022
00:55:27,190 --> 00:55:29,025
Now that's obviously changed.

1023
00:55:29,025 --> 00:55:30,260
They're moving really slowly.

1024
00:55:30,260 --> 00:55:30,827
And I.

1025
00:55:30,827 --> 00:55:33,496
Once again, we don't really know the
volumes of the Cybertruck, but the fact

1026
00:55:33,496 --> 00:55:39,102
that they're essentially Tesla's chart, an
upcharge of like $30,000 for these first

1027
00:55:39,102 --> 00:55:40,203
models.

1028
00:55:40,403 --> 00:55:41,871
Then are still moving them.

1029
00:55:41,871 --> 00:55:45,108
Um, that kind of goes to your point, John,
I've just like being jealous of like, Hey,

1030
00:55:45,108 --> 00:55:48,044
it's, it's obviously not a traditional
buyers, but that's money coming in the

1031
00:55:48,044 --> 00:55:52,549
door for kind of some absurd cars or
absurd truck.

1032
00:55:52,615 --> 00:55:54,818
And there's, I don't know how big of a
demand.

1033
00:55:54,818 --> 00:55:55,351
I don't know.

1034
00:55:55,351 --> 00:55:57,854
Originally it said there's going to be
like quarter million units a year.

1035
00:55:57,854 --> 00:55:58,254
I don't know.

1036
00:55:58,254 --> 00:56:00,156
But even if they hit a hundred thousand.

1037
00:56:00,156 --> 00:56:02,258
with how much they've inflated the price.

1038
00:56:02,525 --> 00:56:05,161
That's not a bad place to be.

1039
00:56:06,730 --> 00:56:08,164
But yeah, Lauren, let's.

1040
00:56:09,132 --> 00:56:10,667
just one interesting update.

1041
00:56:10,667 --> 00:56:14,537
So the Lightning had a blowout quarter,
right?

1042
00:56:14,537 --> 00:56:24,748
So despite everything we've just said,
Ford sold 11,900 Lightnings in Q4, over

1043
00:56:24,748 --> 00:56:31,054
24,000 for the year, which puts it in the
top 10 EVs for the year.

1044
00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:32,021
And so...

1045
00:56:33,389 --> 00:56:36,793
You know, I don't know if they were just
giving it away at the dealers because of

1046
00:56:36,793 --> 00:56:39,529
all the bloated inventory.

1047
00:56:39,796 --> 00:56:42,499
Um, but, um, but you know,

1048
00:56:42,499 --> 00:56:45,402
on your thoughts on that one, John,
because I even just saw someone, I think

1049
00:56:45,402 --> 00:56:49,439
it was on Twitter posted that they were
finally able to get a pro with a $15,000

1050
00:56:49,672 --> 00:56:56,379
dealer mark down to under like closer to
the original $40,000 price they had

1051
00:56:56,579 --> 00:56:57,247
mentioned.

1052
00:56:57,247 --> 00:56:57,614
Yeah.

1053
00:56:57,614 --> 00:57:01,451
as you guys know, EV adoption is happening
on a regional basis.

1054
00:57:01,451 --> 00:57:03,787
There's hot spots across the country.

1055
00:57:03,787 --> 00:57:07,557
And if you're in one of the dead spots and
a dealer's had this thing sitting on his

1056
00:57:07,557 --> 00:57:10,493
lot for five or six months, he's got to
get rid of it.

1057
00:57:10,493 --> 00:57:11,060
He has.

1058
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:12,429
He's floor planning it, right?

1059
00:57:12,429 --> 00:57:14,397
It's costing him money just sitting there.

1060
00:57:14,397 --> 00:57:19,169
So yeah, depending on where in the country
you're talking about.

1061
00:57:19,169 --> 00:57:22,539
You're probably gonna find screaming deals
and you're gonna probably find instances

1062
00:57:22,539 --> 00:57:26,009
where you just can't get your hands on
one, they're so hot.

1063
00:57:26,009 --> 00:57:30,146
But you know, I wanna go back to one thing
that Lauren raised that I thought was

1064
00:57:30,146 --> 00:57:30,680
pretty interesting.

1065
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,484
You know, I was going through Tesla's
financials and it was like, when did they

1066
00:57:34,484 --> 00:57:35,985
start making a profit?

1067
00:57:35,985 --> 00:57:37,854
Well, it was mid 2019.

1068
00:57:37,854 --> 00:57:40,456
I mean, a full year gap profit, right?

1069
00:57:40,590 --> 00:57:47,163
And it wasn't until they started selling
80,000 EVs a quarter, 50,000 of which were

1070
00:57:47,163 --> 00:57:48,331
the Model 3.

1071
00:57:48,465 --> 00:57:52,802
So to me, that's the bogey that the rest
of the industry has to hit.

1072
00:57:52,802 --> 00:57:58,041
If you're not selling 50,000 a quarter
that works out to about 17,000 a month,

1073
00:57:58,074 --> 00:58:02,946
kiss it goodbye from a profit standpoint
until you crack that code.

1074
00:58:02,946 --> 00:58:06,316
You're not gonna make money on your EV
because here's Tesla, they're the best,

1075
00:58:06,316 --> 00:58:07,317
the best at it.

1076
00:58:07,317 --> 00:58:10,019
And they've got EV credits and they got
their own charging network and they're

1077
00:58:10,019 --> 00:58:16,092
selling insurance and all the every, and
it took them 17,000 a month of the Model 3

1078
00:58:16,092 --> 00:58:18,194
before they turned to net profit.

1079
00:58:18,194 --> 00:58:24,367
So as good as we might've seen Ford come
up in the last quarter with the F-150, the

1080
00:58:24,367 --> 00:58:28,938
numbers I just cited shows how far the
Legacies have got to go.

1081
00:58:28,938 --> 00:58:29,639
Yeah.

1082
00:58:30,039 --> 00:58:32,375
Well, it's, it's funny you mentioned that
because obviously like a lot of the

1083
00:58:32,375 --> 00:58:36,246
headlines with the startups like Lucid and
Rivian right now, they're all talking

1084
00:58:36,246 --> 00:58:39,415
about the Rivian R2 or Lucid's model three
fighter.

1085
00:58:39,415 --> 00:58:43,119
It's like, clearly that's what they're
trying to shoot for to get to that

1086
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:44,621
profitability, right?

1087
00:58:44,687 --> 00:58:49,759
Well, I think that's true, but I think it
also kind of speaks to the thing we've

1088
00:58:49,759 --> 00:58:53,496
seen in the second half of the year is
just money is a lot harder to come by.

1089
00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:56,966
And the only interest that these like
startups are going to get is if they have

1090
00:58:56,966 --> 00:58:58,935
something that clearly can get them.

1091
00:58:58,935 --> 00:59:01,971
profitability that someone will win the
money for even if it's at a terrible

1092
00:59:01,971 --> 00:59:03,039
interest rate.

1093
00:59:03,439 --> 00:59:07,944
And I guess I'm curious if there's
anything that just to kind of wrap up that

1094
00:59:07,944 --> 00:59:11,881
one of the other cars I want to discuss
about is the new Chevy Blazer, but I think

1095
00:59:11,881 --> 00:59:14,484
we're going to save that for the software
section real quick.

1096
00:59:15,351 --> 00:59:16,185
Any other thoughts?

1097
00:59:16,185 --> 00:59:20,623
John, Matt, Lauren, just kind of looking
back on the second half of this year when

1098
00:59:20,623 --> 00:59:22,525
it comes to kind of EV sales.

1099
00:59:23,026 --> 00:59:32,168
I mean, I'll just share my EV pizza pie
concept that I teased earlier on, which is

1100
00:59:33,636 --> 00:59:41,978
the EV sales pie is gone from, let's say,
about a 12-inch pizza pie in 2019 to a

1101
00:59:41,978 --> 00:59:44,514
20-inch in 2023.

1102
00:59:45,748 --> 00:59:50,653
But at the same time, we doubled the
number of slices of pizza pie.

1103
00:59:50,653 --> 00:59:53,823
of how that pizza pie is being sliced up
in a number of models.

1104
00:59:53,823 --> 00:59:54,624
Right.

1105
00:59:54,691 --> 01:00:00,163
And so when, when people talk about, you
know, year over year, a quarter or quarter

1106
01:00:00,163 --> 01:00:05,401
over or sales and stuff like that, what
they don't realize is like the model S

1107
01:00:05,468 --> 01:00:11,941
four or five years ago had like no
competitors in sort of the luxury premium

1108
01:00:11,941 --> 01:00:14,444
mid to large size electric sedan.

1109
01:00:14,444 --> 01:00:17,747
There are like nine competitors to the
model S now.

1110
01:00:17,747 --> 01:00:17,947
Right.

1111
01:00:17,947 --> 01:00:19,382
Just use that as an example.

1112
01:00:19,382 --> 01:00:27,690
And so the reality, the net of this is, is
that some models are like continuing to

1113
01:00:27,690 --> 01:00:32,328
grow and some are facing fierce
competition for similar EV models.

1114
01:00:32,328 --> 01:00:37,300
And the, and the, and even though the pie
is growing, it's not growing enough for

1115
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:39,235
the model sort of sales to grow.

1116
01:00:39,235 --> 01:00:39,535
Right.

1117
01:00:39,535 --> 01:00:44,474
And so, you know, what has been missing is
just sort of the competitive factor.

1118
01:00:44,474 --> 01:00:46,909
When it can, you know, a few years ago.

1119
01:00:46,909 --> 01:00:51,481
when consumer wanted an EV, you know, it's
like Tesla, Nissan Leaf, like whatever it

1120
01:00:51,481 --> 01:00:54,017
is, right?

1121
01:00:54,017 --> 01:00:59,455
Now there are like 90, you know, EVs
between plug-in hybrids and BEVs, right?

1122
01:00:59,455 --> 01:01:06,295
And so, you know, what we have to look at
is sort of on a comparison basis, like in

1123
01:01:06,295 --> 01:01:11,000
particular segments, how are sort of
models doing and growing and that type of

1124
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:11,734
thing.

1125
01:01:11,734 --> 01:01:12,068
And so I think...

1126
01:01:12,068 --> 01:01:15,672
All right.

1127
01:01:15,672 --> 01:01:21,210
this auto pizza party and the linebacker
Joe Tesla just comes in, takes his huge

1128
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:23,012
thing and leaves what's left.

1129
01:01:24,814 --> 01:01:28,718
Who isn't starving that's going to go for
a slice?

1130
01:01:29,185 --> 01:01:31,054
The Hyundai motor groups.

1131
01:01:31,587 --> 01:01:32,055
Yeah.

1132
01:01:32,055 --> 01:01:40,663
So Hyundai, Kia, Genesis, um, are, um,
going to be, uh, and I think I haven't

1133
01:01:40,663 --> 01:01:44,667
added it up yet, but I think they'll be,
they might be number two this year as

1134
01:01:44,667 --> 01:01:45,201
well.

1135
01:01:45,201 --> 01:01:48,137
If not, they will be, um, in 2024.

1136
01:01:48,504 --> 01:01:50,506
So you go Tesla.

1137
01:01:50,506 --> 01:01:53,176
Yeah.

1138
01:01:53,176 --> 01:01:54,243
In the U S yeah.

1139
01:01:54,243 --> 01:01:57,880
So, you know, Tesla is like out there on
its own Island, right?

1140
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,883
of, of EV sales and then the Hyundai motor
group.

1141
01:02:00,883 --> 01:02:06,756
And then the reality is, uh, Rivian
probably won't make it, but they have a

1142
01:02:06,756 --> 01:02:09,192
shot at the number, number three spot.

1143
01:02:09,192 --> 01:02:17,533
If, if the R1S sales, but, you know, Ford,
um, well, you know, could have blowout

1144
01:02:17,533 --> 01:02:20,002
with the Mustang Mach-E and that type of
thing.

1145
01:02:20,002 --> 01:02:24,474
So it'll be interesting, but, uh, and GM
might not even make the top five.

1146
01:02:24,774 --> 01:02:26,142
Uh, right.

1147
01:02:26,142 --> 01:02:26,943
Um,

1148
01:02:26,976 --> 01:02:30,713
It's like, which is, yeah, sorry, Mara,
but you married, but you're not going to

1149
01:02:30,713 --> 01:02:34,317
be number one, uh, in 2025.

1150
01:02:34,951 --> 01:02:35,585
No.

1151
01:02:35,585 --> 01:02:37,854
Yeah, she's getting boxed out of this
pizza party.

1152
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:40,790
This is my new favorite metaphor.

1153
01:02:40,790 --> 01:02:41,858
She was in it.

1154
01:02:43,259 --> 01:02:44,560
She got the wrong directions.

1155
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:50,967
Um, with, I guess, uh, saying all of that,
uh, I think one final thing to mention

1156
01:02:50,967 --> 01:02:51,601
that's really interesting.

1157
01:02:51,601 --> 01:02:54,103
That's kind of officially happened in the
last month.

1158
01:02:54,103 --> 01:02:58,674
We've been talking about North America and
talking about EVs, talking about the other

1159
01:02:58,674 --> 01:03:02,512
Joe Tesla linebacker out there globally is
BYD.

1160
01:03:04,614 --> 01:03:07,250
And that wraps up the first part with our
panel.

1161
01:03:07,350 --> 01:03:11,187
Today we've taken a deep dive into the
electric vehicle landscape as it stood in

1162
01:03:11,187 --> 01:03:11,988
2023.

1163
01:03:12,722 --> 01:03:16,425
We started by exploring the impact of the
North American charging standard on

1164
01:03:16,425 --> 01:03:21,030
electric vehicles, a significant milestone
that has truly reshaped the charging

1165
01:03:21,030 --> 01:03:23,733
experience for electric vehicle owners.

1166
01:03:23,866 --> 01:03:27,804
Then we discussed the rollout of the
National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure

1167
01:03:27,804 --> 01:03:30,173
Program, AKA NEVI.

1168
01:03:30,406 --> 01:03:34,744
a key initiative that's paving the way for
a more connected and accessible EV network

1169
01:03:34,744 --> 01:03:36,179
across the nation.

1170
01:03:36,512 --> 01:03:40,783
We also examine US auto sales and the
impressive growth rate of electric vehicle

1171
01:03:40,783 --> 01:03:45,955
sales last year, a clear indicator of the
shifting preferences of consumers and the

1172
01:03:45,955 --> 01:03:48,824
growing reliability of EV technology.

1173
01:03:49,058 --> 01:03:54,297
And finally, we analyze the influence of
legacy automakers in the market, modern

1174
01:03:54,297 --> 01:03:57,800
electric innovation disrupting traditional
manufacturing.

1175
01:03:58,234 --> 01:04:02,104
But hold on to your seats because in the
second part of our panel conversation,

1176
01:04:02,104 --> 01:04:04,440
we're taking our discussion globally.

1177
01:04:04,540 --> 01:04:08,444
We'll explore the role of Chinese EVs, not
just on the world stage, but how they're

1178
01:04:08,444 --> 01:04:10,813
impacting the North American auto market.

1179
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,450
This segment of the industry has been
buzzing with activity and we can't wait to

1180
01:04:14,450 --> 01:04:15,618
delve into it.

1181
01:04:16,052 --> 01:04:19,522
Then we're going to look at how software
is revolutionizing the way electric

1182
01:04:19,522 --> 01:04:24,627
vehicles operate and more intriguingly,
how consumers interact with and perceive

1183
01:04:24,627 --> 01:04:25,795
their cars.

1184
01:04:25,962 --> 01:04:29,999
The digital transformation of the auto
industry is upon us and it promises to be

1185
01:04:29,999 --> 01:04:31,300
a game changer.

1186
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,904
And of course, no discussion would be
complete without our panel sharing their

1187
01:04:34,904 --> 01:04:36,372
predictions for 2024.

1188
01:04:37,139 --> 01:04:39,375
What does the future hold for EVs?

1189
01:04:39,508 --> 01:04:43,246
Are we on the cusp of another major shift
in the automotive industry?

1190
01:04:43,546 --> 01:04:46,782
Our experts will weigh in with their
insights and forecasts.

1191
01:04:47,183 --> 01:04:49,652
So make sure to tune into the second part
of this panel.

1192
01:04:49,652 --> 01:04:51,053
You won't want to miss it.

1193
01:04:51,053 --> 01:04:53,589
Thank you for listening and until next
time.