WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:43.810 --> 00:01:45.560 Duke: All right, Corey, , what are we talking about today? 00:01:46.260 --> 00:01:46.620 CJ: All right, dude. 00:01:46.690 --> 00:01:48.740 Today, we've got a very special guest with us. 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:54.680 We've got none other than the service now magician himself, Chris shoe., 00:01:55.460 --> 00:01:57.870 , Duke: we definitely got to ask why the magician. 00:01:58.655 --> 00:01:59.705 , Chris: it's a pleasure to be here. 00:01:59.905 --> 00:02:02.095 A longtime listener, first time guest. 00:02:02.635 --> 00:02:05.315 So, uh, I started out, oh, thank you. 00:02:05.455 --> 00:02:05.775 Thank you. 00:02:05.775 --> 00:02:06.175 Thank you. 00:02:06.785 --> 00:02:11.605 , I started out in it right after college in the late two thousands and. 00:02:11.905 --> 00:02:15.445 While working at a help desk, I always wanted to perform magic. 00:02:15.475 --> 00:02:20.002 So I started practicing a lot and, started doing magic, at a fairly 00:02:20.002 --> 00:02:25.922 young age, early twenties, and eventually landed a gig performing and 00:02:26.342 --> 00:02:30.322 consulting for a magic distribution company based out of San Francisco. 00:02:30.497 --> 00:02:34.987 I was lucky enough to tour the world and do several stage shows all over 00:02:34.987 --> 00:02:40.137 the place and performed in India, China, Panama, um, yeah, very lucky, 00:02:40.137 --> 00:02:42.257 very grateful for that experience. 00:02:42.837 --> 00:02:47.317 Came back to Canada, , based out of Vancouver and, , wanted to 00:02:47.317 --> 00:02:51.987 kind of set some roots and started to get back into the IT world. 00:02:52.477 --> 00:02:54.977 Discovered ServiceNow in 2016. 00:02:55.277 --> 00:02:58.387 Right around the time I started to take a break from magic, just so 00:02:58.387 --> 00:03:00.087 that I could focus on the IT stuff. 00:03:00.087 --> 00:03:02.237 And, , I was kind of worn out from it. 00:03:02.637 --> 00:03:06.307 So it's a bit of a, a long and a lonely journey to travel 200 00:03:06.307 --> 00:03:07.857 days a year, stuff like that. 00:03:08.727 --> 00:03:13.527 And, return to , the magic side of things after doing the CMA program and 00:03:14.137 --> 00:03:18.167 having an idea to do a magic show that illustrates the Now Value framework, 00:03:18.547 --> 00:03:19.017 CJ: Ooh, 00:03:19.017 --> 00:03:21.937 Chris: through some stage illusions or stage tricks, 00:03:22.467 --> 00:03:23.327 whatever you want to call them. 00:03:24.377 --> 00:03:26.707 Duke: Is that a thing that exists now or is that a thing you're working on? 00:03:26.967 --> 00:03:31.317 Chris: It is, , so I did for the Vancouver release, I did a private 00:03:31.317 --> 00:03:34.387 showing, which was like the first dress rehearsal in front of real people. 00:03:34.387 --> 00:03:34.877 And I think. 00:03:35.297 --> 00:03:39.003 Beginning of November last year, and, , believe it or not, I did 00:03:39.003 --> 00:03:44.103 apply to do add knowledge and I'm not doing it in knowledge. 00:03:44.273 --> 00:03:47.483 So you can take take what you want out of that. 00:03:47.903 --> 00:03:53.603 Um, but, uh, he, that was not my decision. 00:03:53.623 --> 00:03:57.453 Uh, some people's change throughout the application process. 00:03:57.453 --> 00:04:00.563 So I've been in talks for months over it because I need 00:04:00.573 --> 00:04:02.433 a stage and a few other things. 00:04:02.433 --> 00:04:03.613 And I think it was more. 00:04:04.153 --> 00:04:07.193 Technical, at least I'm going to tell myself that it was more technical and 00:04:07.193 --> 00:04:09.903 that I just didn't get, , rejected like a young Shaquille O'Neal. 00:04:10.653 --> 00:04:16.443 So, , I'm now looking to find, , snugs and some of the other forums and 00:04:16.443 --> 00:04:20.293 stuff that they hold and go to those or even dev meetups and start 00:04:20.293 --> 00:04:21.503 doing the show in those arenas. 00:04:21.933 --> 00:04:26.043 And I'm also actually just in discussions to do it for a private ServiceNow partner 00:04:26.223 --> 00:04:28.053 at their company annual gathering. 00:04:28.758 --> 00:04:33.855 Later in October, so I know right now doesn't mean I know forever and you 00:04:33.855 --> 00:04:34.925 know, I'm always gonna keep going. 00:04:35.347 --> 00:04:35.757 CJ: I love that. 00:04:35.757 --> 00:04:36.347 Keep pushing. 00:04:36.347 --> 00:04:36.607 Right? 00:04:36.910 --> 00:04:40.010 There's a comedian or an actor or somebody or maybe it was an author. 00:04:40.010 --> 00:04:40.480 I can't remember. 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:43.640 He was Steven, , uh, King who kept track of like all the knows 00:04:43.640 --> 00:04:45.060 that he got before he got a yes. 00:04:45.490 --> 00:04:47.070 , you know, it just goes to show you, right? 00:04:47.070 --> 00:04:52.057 , you do often get rejected before you make that breakthrough, , and when we're 00:04:52.057 --> 00:04:55.317 talking about like breakthrough, we're only talking about, you know, you being 00:04:55.367 --> 00:04:57.367 performing magic at knowledge, right? 00:04:57.367 --> 00:05:01.037 We're not talking about the success that you are in the ServiceNow 00:05:01.097 --> 00:05:02.807 ecosystem as a whole, right? 00:05:02.807 --> 00:05:04.467 Cause you've already done that, 00:05:05.407 --> 00:05:06.327 Chris: Yeah, thanks. 00:05:06.897 --> 00:05:11.327 Yeah, even just with the previous experience in magic It was you know, 00:05:11.397 --> 00:05:16.557 probably sometimes a hundred knows to get one Yes, that was a good 00:05:16.557 --> 00:05:21.032 thing to learn and to go through and even , to offer to come and travel 00:05:21.032 --> 00:05:22.792 and do the show for free at no cost. 00:05:22.792 --> 00:05:26.272 And all you got to do is give me a mic, some stage time. 00:05:26.732 --> 00:05:27.742 No, we'll pass. 00:05:28.002 --> 00:05:28.442 Okay. 00:05:29.952 --> 00:05:32.892 You have to kind of become a little numb to that. 00:05:32.932 --> 00:05:35.082 So, and, and move forward, 00:05:35.367 --> 00:05:38.247 CJ: Did you have any, techniques or anything that you develop out, 00:05:38.307 --> 00:05:42.057 developed out of that to increase your resilience around being tilt now? 00:05:43.862 --> 00:05:47.492 Chris: Just repetition, honestly, put me into a complacent piece 00:05:47.532 --> 00:05:51.602 and then allowed me to manage expectations when I would submit stuff. 00:05:52.012 --> 00:05:54.692 In the beginning, , you kind of feel like the young actor, like, Oh, 00:05:54.692 --> 00:05:58.112 you know, Hey mom, I might get this big part or something like that. 00:05:58.602 --> 00:06:02.762 And eventually I got to a point where I would only start telling people once 00:06:02.762 --> 00:06:08.742 it was locked down and once a deposit was paid, so, you know, even stuff 00:06:08.752 --> 00:06:11.122 falls apart in between now and the show. 00:06:11.122 --> 00:06:13.462 So that's why it's like, okay, this is. 00:06:14.372 --> 00:06:19.072 With the current state of where I'm at with this discussion, and the next step is 00:06:19.092 --> 00:06:21.082 this, and I'll update you when that comes. 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.400 Duke: Everybody applies their past to their ServiceNow career, right? 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.530 And I've always thought that some of the most interesting ServiceNow resources, 00:06:29.617 --> 00:06:32.017 didn't come from IT backgrounds, right? 00:06:32.017 --> 00:06:33.007 they had something else. 00:06:33.310 --> 00:06:36.470 And they came to ServiceNow and that informed their ServiceNow life. 00:06:36.470 --> 00:06:43.460 So is there anything that you took from your, like learning the art of illusion or 00:06:43.470 --> 00:06:50.520 mentalism or working a crowd that really informs your ServiceNow journey today? 00:06:51.038 --> 00:06:54.492 Chris: I would probably say the presentation skills, and 00:06:54.502 --> 00:06:59.136 being able to speak at a pace that can resonate with people. 00:06:59.326 --> 00:07:04.056 I took Toastmasters for years, so that helped drop the ums 00:07:04.056 --> 00:07:06.551 and the ahs and All that stuff. 00:07:06.641 --> 00:07:11.171 And I was able to leverage that, not just in the professional world, which 00:07:11.171 --> 00:07:16.495 I took it for, but also in the magic world, which was a nice bonus out of it. 00:07:16.781 --> 00:07:18.701 So those elements really helped. 00:07:18.731 --> 00:07:22.951 And then also being able to just get up and present in front of 00:07:22.981 --> 00:07:25.631 people without sweaty palms anymore. 00:07:26.161 --> 00:07:30.161 At the beginning of the magic journey, I'd be in a mall near my place. 00:07:30.731 --> 00:07:34.041 And I would go up and want to approach strangers and just say, 00:07:34.041 --> 00:07:35.141 Hey, you want to see a trick? 00:07:35.141 --> 00:07:38.771 And sometimes my hands would shake or sweat so bad that I had to back 00:07:38.771 --> 00:07:41.871 away or I'd walk up to them and be like, I'm sorry, nevermind. 00:07:41.871 --> 00:07:43.161 And awkward. 00:07:43.901 --> 00:07:49.521 And eventually I wanted to do it more than I had the fear. 00:07:50.281 --> 00:07:55.511 So I kept at it, kept trying and the shakes got better and better over 00:07:55.511 --> 00:07:56.901 the course of a couple of years. 00:07:57.736 --> 00:08:00.426 And then eventually they just don't happen anymore. 00:08:01.131 --> 00:08:02.791 Duke: Gosh, Corey, I got to tell you, I'm sorry. 00:08:03.391 --> 00:08:05.951 We're gonna take this opportunity to talk about a sponsor of ours. 00:08:06.086 --> 00:08:06.456 Chris: Sure. 00:08:06.486 --> 00:08:06.886 Go ahead. 00:08:07.106 --> 00:08:08.526 Duke: The shakes, man. 00:08:08.840 --> 00:08:13.594 like, I need my caffeine get through my day, but I hate getting that post 00:08:13.594 --> 00:08:18.284 caffeine, withdrawal, or getting so much caffeine where you get the shakes. 00:08:18.904 --> 00:08:19.654 You guys ever get that? 00:08:20.094 --> 00:08:23.534 So I want to talk about our latest sponsor to the channel, Magic Mind. 00:08:23.694 --> 00:08:26.197 I got to tell you this stuff is awesome. 00:08:26.247 --> 00:08:27.357 I'm on it right now. 00:08:27.697 --> 00:08:30.104 It's, it's three 30 in the afternoon. 00:08:30.424 --> 00:08:33.774 This is usually a time where I'm like borderline unconscious. 00:08:33.774 --> 00:08:36.564 And, 00:08:36.586 --> 00:08:37.418 CJ: ha ha 00:08:37.624 --> 00:08:39.934 Duke: and I feel fantastic. 00:08:39.934 --> 00:08:42.764 This is stuff that's got matcha in it, adaptogens. 00:08:42.862 --> 00:08:47.162 Utropics and , at the worst part of my day, I think it's like an hour 00:08:47.162 --> 00:08:50.012 ago and I am in complete flow state. 00:08:50.742 --> 00:08:52.172 yeah, sorry for the interruption, but 00:08:52.367 --> 00:08:53.007 Chris: No, that's 00:08:53.412 --> 00:08:54.322 Duke: I, I gotta preach. 00:08:54.322 --> 00:08:55.702 They sent me a free sample kit. 00:08:55.932 --> 00:08:58.952 And, , if you're CJ and the Duke listener, you can get a 20 percent discount. 00:08:59.012 --> 00:09:01.812 If you check the link below, I highly recommend this. 00:09:02.182 --> 00:09:05.785 And I wouldn't do so if I hadn't been using it for a few days already. 00:09:05.985 --> 00:09:07.265 It is so good. 00:09:08.260 --> 00:09:08.660 Chris: So when you, 00:09:08.835 --> 00:09:09.215 Duke: fantastic. 00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:11.930 Chris: when you say so good, what does it taste like? 00:09:12.148 --> 00:09:12.998 Duke: Oh yeah, the taste. 00:09:12.998 --> 00:09:20.298 I was talking about the feeling, but the taste is Yeah, no, the taste is fantastic. 00:09:20.298 --> 00:09:25.078 it's kind of like a papaya banana kind of sweetness. 00:09:25.638 --> 00:09:28.705 but it hits the back of your tongue kind of like a, bubbly sparkly drink. 00:09:28.735 --> 00:09:31.385 It's not effervescent, but it kind of like hits the back of my tongue like 00:09:31.385 --> 00:09:33.645 that but it just goes down real smooth. 00:09:33.681 --> 00:09:36.331 A nice, pleasant, single taste and it is done. 00:09:37.066 --> 00:09:38.026 Chris: that is super cool. 00:09:38.231 --> 00:09:41.451 Duke: gosh, you ever had to drink bad coffee just to get your day started. 00:09:41.781 --> 00:09:42.861 It's, it's none of that. 00:09:42.861 --> 00:09:44.071 It's just one and done. 00:09:44.141 --> 00:09:46.021 And, a few minutes later it's flow state. 00:09:46.191 --> 00:09:46.591 It's awesome. 00:09:47.701 --> 00:09:48.641 CJ: like bad coffee. 00:09:48.701 --> 00:09:48.971 Ugh. 00:09:49.211 --> 00:09:49.971 Don't don't get me started. 00:09:49.971 --> 00:09:51.238 Nice. 00:09:51.251 --> 00:09:51.671 Chris: Mm-Hmm. 00:09:51.761 --> 00:09:54.201 Duke: I don't think it's going to replace my coffee, but I think it's like I 00:09:54.201 --> 00:09:56.141 can reduce my coffee intake by a lot. 00:09:56.465 --> 00:09:59.735 and then just in the period of time where I normally have a withdrawal, 00:10:00.025 --> 00:10:02.675 this stuff , makes it the peak of my day rather than the trough. 00:10:03.113 --> 00:10:03.383 Chris: Yeah. 00:10:03.383 --> 00:10:07.743 I could see it working for me , in that early afternoon, late afternoon thing 00:10:07.743 --> 00:10:11.433 when I want that boost, but I don't want the caffeine side of it, of a cup 00:10:11.433 --> 00:10:13.293 of coffee or tea or anything like that. 00:10:13.293 --> 00:10:13.833 That's cool. 00:10:14.828 --> 00:10:18.868 Duke: So Chris, , tell us what your favorite part of the ServiceNow platform. 00:10:20.563 --> 00:10:21.636 Chris: Oh, wow. 00:10:21.666 --> 00:10:24.696 There's always a special place in my heart for service catalog, because 00:10:24.701 --> 00:10:26.526 that was my first experience with it. 00:10:26.556 --> 00:10:31.690 And before that, I was in request management, in a in-house built tool 00:10:31.690 --> 00:10:33.310 for a telecommunications company. 00:10:33.310 --> 00:10:37.680 But I would have to say my favorite module would probably be event 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:46.070 management, because it combines large scale operations, consolidates them into 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:51.110 one system, so all of your events in your different event management system 00:10:51.110 --> 00:10:57.120 get consolidated into one, they're triaged automatically, and then they 00:10:57.160 --> 00:11:00.530 are actioned based on your conditions. 00:11:01.105 --> 00:11:05.055 So you can decide, , out of all these events, do I create an alert? 00:11:05.105 --> 00:11:07.885 And then out of these alerts, do I consolidate them? 00:11:07.885 --> 00:11:11.635 And then do I take an action from there, including even something as 00:11:11.885 --> 00:11:16.355 sophisticated as automating the restart of a server, if you know that resolves it. 00:11:17.235 --> 00:11:19.665 And then they've got this new thing. 00:11:19.665 --> 00:11:21.885 Well, I don't know if it's still considered new, but 00:11:22.305 --> 00:11:23.955 where they layer in AI ops. 00:11:24.435 --> 00:11:28.765 And honestly, this is one of the best uses of AI that I've seen where 00:11:29.505 --> 00:11:35.285 the old method of detecting things was if my CPU goes above 85 percent 00:11:35.285 --> 00:11:39.525 usage, I want you to trigger an alert or an alarm and go call somebody. 00:11:39.878 --> 00:11:42.878 But sometimes I might have a scheduled job that runs that takes 00:11:42.878 --> 00:11:45.178 me to 87 percent every Friday. 00:11:45.605 --> 00:11:48.055 Let's say that job fails and I never get to 87%. 00:11:49.098 --> 00:11:50.098 How do I detect that? 00:11:50.608 --> 00:11:56.238 Well, AI is purpose built to detect anomalies both above and below thresholds, 00:11:56.768 --> 00:12:01.678 so it could also say, oh, we didn't get to 87 percent on this Friday, 00:12:02.138 --> 00:12:06.325 but every other Friday in the last year we did, I need to call somebody. 00:12:07.015 --> 00:12:09.755 So it catches both sides of that coin and. 00:12:10.185 --> 00:12:12.155 And automates a lot of the responses. 00:12:12.475 --> 00:12:16.165 that's one of the coolest pieces of service now that I really like, of course, 00:12:16.165 --> 00:12:20.865 you need to mature your discovery and your CMDB and your CSTM , to make the most 00:12:20.865 --> 00:12:25.885 of it, but those happen to also be some of my other passions in the platform, is 00:12:25.885 --> 00:12:27.505 that the answer you're looking for, or 00:12:27.745 --> 00:12:28.715 Duke: What's your answer, man? 00:12:28.845 --> 00:12:30.075 Chris: yeah, so 00:12:30.285 --> 00:12:30.485 Duke: Yeah. 00:12:30.485 --> 00:12:37.024 Yeah. 00:12:37.345 --> 00:12:38.185 CJ: aspect of this. 00:12:38.185 --> 00:12:40.785 That kind of caught me off guard when you were talking about it. 00:12:40.785 --> 00:12:46.105 I didn't expect to hear AI is now looking at your, event history, , and 00:12:46.115 --> 00:12:49.125 being able to predict how to resolve something and whether or 00:12:49.125 --> 00:12:51.285 not something, , is outside of spec. 00:12:52.198 --> 00:12:56.378 Chris: ops is a, a fairly new, like I said, product. 00:12:56.478 --> 00:12:57.808 , and it's got. 00:12:58.288 --> 00:13:03.358 A lot of great features so you can do your data ingestion and your anomaly 00:13:03.358 --> 00:13:08.928 detection is one of the coolest things that I like to see so it will comb 00:13:08.948 --> 00:13:12.718 through all your historical event data and monitor your incoming feed 00:13:13.078 --> 00:13:18.998 and it tries to identify markers and understand what's going to happen in the 00:13:18.998 --> 00:13:22.208 future because that's, you know, kind of just like predictive intelligence. 00:13:22.545 --> 00:13:25.245 says, here's your next three months based on your historical data. 00:13:25.255 --> 00:13:26.615 It's trying to do the same thing. 00:13:27.315 --> 00:13:32.035 So eventually you're able to detect emerging issues sometimes 00:13:32.035 --> 00:13:33.095 before they even happen. 00:13:33.755 --> 00:13:38.975 So let's say it starts to notice anomalies like your CPU gets to 60 percent and then, 00:13:39.095 --> 00:13:42.985 you know, it goes back down and then it gets to 63 percent and goes back down. 00:13:43.585 --> 00:13:47.935 It can detect all those things and start to take actions or send alarms 00:13:48.548 --> 00:13:53.728 Before it crashes and goes to a hundred percent based on that historical data. 00:13:54.458 --> 00:13:59.608 So they've actually got use cases where they showed, Hey, if you had AI ops 00:13:59.608 --> 00:14:03.988 installed and we're using event management and had your CSTM and everything 00:14:03.988 --> 00:14:09.059 aligned , and everything paid for, then you can, you could have predicted 00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.129 this outage three days in advance. 00:14:11.844 --> 00:14:14.574 And you could have had a change request happen within your change 00:14:14.574 --> 00:14:17.494 window that would have addressed it, and you could have avoided it. 00:14:17.494 --> 00:14:20.594 those are real world scenarios. 00:14:20.914 --> 00:14:26.124 , the original demo for it was based on something quite similar to that. 00:14:26.634 --> 00:14:28.414 So that's one of the coolest things. 00:14:28.414 --> 00:14:32.804 I saw a presentation from a guy named Maurizio at ServiceNow. 00:14:33.204 --> 00:14:35.824 , he's involved in event management and the apps. 00:14:35.975 --> 00:14:39.819 Segment, so, the other things that they've got are, a new service health 00:14:39.869 --> 00:14:43.219 dashboard that allows you to manage and take action from things like that. 00:14:43.569 --> 00:14:43.909 And then. 00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:47.940 Your automatic remediation is also one of the mature side of things, but once 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:53.954 you get there, you can really handle a lot of issues very, very quickly. 00:14:53.954 --> 00:14:57.964 And in some cases, preemptively, so that moves you from that reactive 00:14:57.984 --> 00:15:00.704 stage to the proactive stage, which is what we all dream of. 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:02.699 CJ: Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:05.589 I used to be a, , network on a train. 00:15:05.619 --> 00:15:09.739 Um, um, you sell on a network monitoring platform in a form of life when I 00:15:09.739 --> 00:15:11.179 was, yeah, when I was doing, it. 00:15:11.569 --> 00:15:15.139 And so I, love to hear about like this AI, anything ops, right? 00:15:15.139 --> 00:15:16.339 Like AI ops, right? 00:15:16.339 --> 00:15:17.409 Like event management. 00:15:17.584 --> 00:15:18.474 That whole thing, right? 00:15:18.524 --> 00:15:21.344 , because like you said, it allows you to take this big aggregate, 00:15:21.374 --> 00:15:22.694 this big pool of data, right? 00:15:22.924 --> 00:15:25.434 And, and then aggregate it and reduce it down to something that's 00:15:25.434 --> 00:15:28.154 a lot more manageable, , from the level of service, right? 00:15:28.154 --> 00:15:31.804 That we're trying to get to, which is making something consumable for the 00:15:31.804 --> 00:15:33.854 average person utilizing service now. 00:15:34.024 --> 00:15:36.574 So I just love focusing and talking about this kind of stuff, right? 00:15:36.574 --> 00:15:38.134 Because I, I know some folks are like, what? 00:15:38.479 --> 00:15:41.549 But , if you've been in the trenches and you've done this stuff before, you 00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:44.129 realize like just how valuable this is. 00:15:44.324 --> 00:15:44.924 Chris: Yeah. 00:15:45.004 --> 00:15:48.834 Well, we've all tried to trace that event that caused , the server to go down 00:15:49.069 --> 00:15:49.609 CJ: Right. 00:15:49.954 --> 00:15:50.854 Chris: comb through. 00:15:50.874 --> 00:15:51.264 Okay. 00:15:51.264 --> 00:15:53.854 Well, you know, what does this system say? 00:15:53.854 --> 00:15:55.294 And what does the server log say? 00:15:55.457 --> 00:15:57.847 trying to find that 1 needle in the haystack. 00:15:57.847 --> 00:15:59.847 And sometimes you're searching millions of records. 00:15:59.847 --> 00:16:00.247 CJ: Yeah, 00:16:00.457 --> 00:16:05.074 Chris: this simplifies that so that a smaller team can do more and, , offload 00:16:05.174 --> 00:16:11.784 that Administrative effort to allow them , to focus on more strategic directional. 00:16:11.784 --> 00:16:17.533 Initiatives 00:16:21.484 --> 00:16:21.774 CJ: man. 00:16:21.774 --> 00:16:23.064 Cause I can riff on that one too. 00:16:23.064 --> 00:16:26.720 Like it's , isn't that the point of service now, Like it is to 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.410 allow , that smaller team to do more with the, do more period. 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.410 . And in their day to day job. 00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:36.370 And I just think sometimes we lose track of that when we're doing, , I won't 00:16:36.370 --> 00:16:39.350 say when we're doing deployments, but sometimes like in the ecosystem, when 00:16:39.350 --> 00:16:43.420 we're collectively doing employments, I think sometimes we lose track of the goal. 00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:47.040 I think sometimes we lose track of what our clients goals are and how we're 00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:49.440 aligning the system with , those goals. 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:52.550 And forgive the pun here, Chris, . , but the magic they're supposed to 00:16:52.550 --> 00:16:54.500 feel when we walk away, right. 00:16:55.300 --> 00:16:55.830 Chris: that's right. 00:16:55.890 --> 00:16:59.660 And that's that speaks to the power of the platform. 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.930 And that's 1 of the things that I love about it as well. 00:17:02.930 --> 00:17:03.260 Is that. 00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:09.000 , you can really invest in it and not have to expand your team. 00:17:09.550 --> 00:17:12.730 And at the same time, when you invest in it, you're not also 00:17:12.730 --> 00:17:14.090 looking to decrease your team. 00:17:15.005 --> 00:17:19.085 You're looking to say, Hey, all that stuff that they're doing in the off 00:17:19.085 --> 00:17:23.395 hours, all that other work that's getting pushed because an incident has come up, 00:17:23.395 --> 00:17:27.855 or they have to troubleshoot something, or they have to go in and hunt for the 00:17:27.855 --> 00:17:29.805 cause or do the root cause analysis. 00:17:30.475 --> 00:17:37.125 All of that becomes automated so that they can guide the company 00:17:37.395 --> 00:17:40.335 through the strategic journey that they're going towards. 00:17:40.790 --> 00:17:44.350 And trying to reach those goals, rather than being down in the 00:17:44.350 --> 00:17:46.710 weeds, doing that nitty gritty work. 00:17:47.350 --> 00:17:51.350 Not that doesn't add value, it totally does, and it is necessary. 00:17:51.980 --> 00:17:56.100 But there are much more efficient and accurate ways to do it. 00:17:56.660 --> 00:18:01.670 I'm not going to be the best person to go and find that one error log entry. 00:18:02.450 --> 00:18:05.370 You know, I'll hunt for 10 minutes, but after a while, honestly, I Tune 00:18:05.370 --> 00:18:07.720 out because it's so hard to find it. 00:18:08.205 --> 00:18:09.445 Duke: Can I ask a dumb question? 00:18:10.145 --> 00:18:11.005 Chris: No such thing, but go 00:18:11.095 --> 00:18:14.590 Duke: Having, having not had an ops background, my first foray in it was 00:18:14.590 --> 00:18:21.080 the ITSM tools and managing those, how much of this stuff remains, even though 00:18:21.080 --> 00:18:24.550 everybody's rushing into the cloud, , I would imagine, like, an event management 00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:28.780 system is really there to monitor servers that you've got in a data center, 00:18:29.104 --> 00:18:30.684 isn't everybody going to the cloud? 00:18:30.684 --> 00:18:33.944 And if so, how much of that remains that you've got to manage? 00:18:34.439 --> 00:18:36.499 Chris: Well, all of it remains. 00:18:36.739 --> 00:18:41.279 So just because it's in the cloud doesn't mean that I don't have infrastructure 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.159 that delivers that business service. 00:18:43.684 --> 00:18:45.904 And now that CSDM talk, right? 00:18:45.944 --> 00:18:49.434 So I've got my business service and then underneath that all 00:18:49.434 --> 00:18:53.334 my business services support or roll up to a business capability. 00:18:53.764 --> 00:18:56.877 And if that goes down, my business is impacted. 00:18:57.134 --> 00:19:00.824 So having that visibility, no matter where it is, and it can be 00:19:00.824 --> 00:19:02.944 outsourced, you know, Salesforce. 00:19:04.249 --> 00:19:08.689 And having the full Salesforce stack and your CMDB and ServiceNow is adds 00:19:08.719 --> 00:19:13.849 tons of value to understand that, Oh, if Salesforce goes down, I can't 00:19:13.849 --> 00:19:15.439 manage my customer relationship. 00:19:15.439 --> 00:19:16.949 Man, my CRM system is down. 00:19:16.949 --> 00:19:17.579 I can't do this. 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:22.129 I can't track all of my sales and their progress until that's up. 00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:27.079 So we need to have that visibility from even a strategic 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:29.049 portfolio management perspective. 00:19:29.419 --> 00:19:30.729 So it does feed into that. 00:19:30.769 --> 00:19:35.844 Now, does that mean you're going to send Your network technician to go fix it? 00:19:35.934 --> 00:19:38.804 No, but it would help you understand. 00:19:38.814 --> 00:19:41.844 Oh, this business service is impacted because. 00:19:42.504 --> 00:19:45.414 Somebody called in and said, I can't log into Salesforce. 00:19:45.784 --> 00:19:47.794 You can then look up in service. 00:19:47.834 --> 00:19:51.414 Now, how, who to call based on that CMDB data. 00:19:51.414 --> 00:19:51.983 Is 00:19:52.270 --> 00:19:52.690 CJ: Yes. 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:54.150 I'm vibing with you there, Chris. 00:19:54.310 --> 00:19:56.504 You and I seem to share similar background. 00:19:56.504 --> 00:20:02.954 So just wondering, , for somebody who's, Like you said, the first 00:20:02.954 --> 00:20:06.023 time you touched it was like, right? 00:20:06.104 --> 00:20:11.884 Like, , how do these things, I think it's a unique perspective on how it 00:20:12.994 --> 00:20:15.884 works from the eyes of someone who is. 00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.865 IT savvy, but from a different background perspective, Like, how 00:20:20.865 --> 00:20:23.615 do you approach this, some of this stuff when you get down to it and 00:20:23.615 --> 00:20:26.795 start to talk to the customers about like, you know, what ServiceNow can do 00:20:26.795 --> 00:20:28.795 for them , and how it can do for them. 00:20:28.795 --> 00:20:30.575 And, all of this sort of thing. 00:20:31.870 --> 00:20:32.620 Duke: Question for me 00:20:32.770 --> 00:20:35.020 CJ: Yeah, question for you, man, on the spot. 00:20:35.030 --> 00:20:35.930 You're on the clock. 00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:36.470 Duke: man. 00:20:36.470 --> 00:20:42.720 Well, I never I'm always, I never want to like, um, what's this right 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:44.310 checks that my butt can't cash. 00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:48.040 I'm very careful about what parts of the platform I talk about. 00:20:48.070 --> 00:20:52.730 I'm not a huge, I Tom discovery ops person. 00:20:52.750 --> 00:20:54.290 , I'm usually like not playing there. 00:20:54.290 --> 00:20:58.700 I'm talking about, how do I make the platform lab, like the architecture 00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:02.210 type stuff and also, , SPM and PA and that kind of thing. 00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:04.840 , I would love to get a lot more into. 00:21:05.385 --> 00:21:09.575 Like the eye Tommy bits, but I just don't have that server network 00:21:09.585 --> 00:21:11.475 data, , the data center background. 00:21:11.847 --> 00:21:12.127 CJ: Yeah, 00:21:12.267 --> 00:21:13.007 Chris: That's fair. 00:21:13.627 --> 00:21:14.577 , CJ: yeah, I was gonna say that too. 00:21:14.617 --> 00:21:15.017 It's fair. 00:21:15.117 --> 00:21:18.707 I think, though, what you bring, to, , that process, though, is that 00:21:18.707 --> 00:21:23.417 you have a killer reporting and performance analytics background, 00:21:24.447 --> 00:21:25.037 Chris: Oh yes. 00:21:25.432 --> 00:21:27.362 CJ: Yeah, and that is so much of this. 00:21:27.502 --> 00:21:30.012 I'd say that's probably half of this process, right? 00:21:30.312 --> 00:21:34.372 Because servers are, you know, in the opposite environment services throwing 00:21:34.372 --> 00:21:36.172 off data like all the time, right? 00:21:36.182 --> 00:21:37.472 Like you were saying earlier, Chris, right? 00:21:37.472 --> 00:21:40.542 They got CPUs up and down, up and down all over the place, whatever, right? 00:21:40.732 --> 00:21:41.692 60 percent 20%. 00:21:42.412 --> 00:21:44.972 Like, how do you make like heads or tails of that stuff? 00:21:45.152 --> 00:21:47.222 And how do you know when things are moving in the right direction 00:21:47.782 --> 00:21:48.982 versus the wrong direction? 00:21:48.992 --> 00:21:53.132 And you and I have talked a lot about, uh, on the show about, about this 00:21:53.132 --> 00:21:57.202 and how you configure performance analytics and even more, how you have 00:21:57.202 --> 00:22:01.972 that conversation around those things with your clients about counters and 00:22:01.972 --> 00:22:03.782 what direction they should be moving. 00:22:04.142 --> 00:22:05.272 And you know what I mean? 00:22:05.272 --> 00:22:05.412 Like 00:22:05.542 --> 00:22:06.092 Duke: Yeah. 00:22:06.182 --> 00:22:08.242 I mean, it's easy enough to talk about, right? 00:22:08.322 --> 00:22:11.132 Cause you talk about , like, how do you know this stuff? 00:22:11.132 --> 00:22:14.522 It's not like an organization is completely blind to like, how 00:22:14.522 --> 00:22:17.342 do I know that I'm completely out of space on the servers? 00:22:17.392 --> 00:22:21.392 Like somebody knows there are, we've spent bajillions of dollars. 00:22:21.723 --> 00:22:24.933 On infrastructure to detect and monitor this stuff. 00:22:25.023 --> 00:22:25.953 , but where is it? 00:22:25.983 --> 00:22:28.533 Who knows how long does it take that stuff to get into service? 00:22:28.533 --> 00:22:30.183 Now, if it ever does, 00:22:30.473 --> 00:22:30.823 Chris: yep. 00:22:31.003 --> 00:22:31.693 CJ: right. 00:22:31.743 --> 00:22:36.703 Duke: you know, and so how are you rolling up to make better decisions about WTF 00:22:36.703 --> 00:22:41.453 is going on in our environment, or you just, , everybody siloed up and kind of 00:22:41.463 --> 00:22:43.133 just dealing with their own realities. 00:22:43.677 --> 00:22:45.737 CJ: See that, right? 00:22:45.737 --> 00:22:51.407 And I think that part of the process, , is something that, that 00:22:51.407 --> 00:22:55.287 we're, you can sometimes miss when you're digging in the trenches, 00:22:55.477 --> 00:22:58.357 when you're so deep in the actual I. 00:22:58.357 --> 00:22:58.867 T. 00:22:59.027 --> 00:23:00.087 aspects of it, right? 00:23:00.087 --> 00:23:03.037 Like, you know, I, I can build the server from scratch, right? 00:23:03.047 --> 00:23:04.227 Like, Chris, we can do that, right? 00:23:04.227 --> 00:23:05.217 We can build a server from scratch. 00:23:05.217 --> 00:23:06.357 We know where the things are. 00:23:06.527 --> 00:23:09.617 We know what the individual granular counters and all that kind of stuff. 00:23:09.767 --> 00:23:12.947 And sometimes you can forget about the user at the end of the chain, I 00:23:12.947 --> 00:23:15.687 think you come in and you think I'm not, you're thinking about the user 00:23:15.767 --> 00:23:19.637 organization, , and probably because you come in with a different perspective 00:23:19.777 --> 00:23:23.597 because you probably can't build like that windows, data center from scratch. 00:23:24.327 --> 00:23:27.117 Chris: Well, first off, I don't know if I could build a server anymore. 00:23:27.862 --> 00:23:29.212 CJ: Ha ha ha ha ha ha! 00:23:29.297 --> 00:23:31.047 Chris: Just being fully honest. 00:23:31.687 --> 00:23:34.967 And secondly, yeah, the reporting and the performance 00:23:34.967 --> 00:23:38.437 analytics piece is at least 50%. 00:23:40.122 --> 00:23:43.932 Of that project, but it's probably forgotten 80 percent of the time. 00:23:44.272 --> 00:23:50.572 So having that skill set will allow you to showcase. 00:23:50.652 --> 00:23:53.332 These are your pain points in the organization. 00:23:53.342 --> 00:23:57.462 These are your most vulnerable things within the structure. 00:23:57.462 --> 00:24:01.022 And these are your most vulnerable business services will enable 00:24:01.282 --> 00:24:03.282 that C suite to make those. 00:24:03.747 --> 00:24:08.257 Strategic investment decisions, you know, if they could have a server go 00:24:08.257 --> 00:24:14.797 down 100 times a day, but if the impact of the cost is 10 bucks each time, then 00:24:14.867 --> 00:24:16.997 the value is not there to upgrade it. 00:24:17.227 --> 00:24:19.867 But if they have a server go down once every 6 months and it costs 00:24:19.867 --> 00:24:24.410 them, 600 grand because of the productivity impact, perhaps. 00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:28.570 Having that understanding would help them say, well, this is the 00:24:28.570 --> 00:24:29.860 word we got to spend our money. 00:24:30.791 --> 00:24:36.281 Duke: have wrestled for the better part of two decades on how easy that is to say, 00:24:36.796 --> 00:24:37.186 Chris: Mm hmm. 00:24:37.701 --> 00:24:42.315 Duke: but what makes it so hard for people to deploy? 00:24:42.875 --> 00:24:44.625 Can we have an honest conversation about that maybe? 00:24:44.765 --> 00:24:45.585 CJ: Yeah! 00:24:45.645 --> 00:24:46.505 Yeah! 00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:49.660 Duke: I mean, Corey, just last week, remember that call we 00:24:49.660 --> 00:24:51.190 were on with that customer? 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.790 And it was just like, a customer so big, it would shock you. 00:24:54.110 --> 00:24:55.810 That brand doesn't know what's going on. 00:24:57.270 --> 00:25:00.590 And it's just, they do discovery, you know what I mean? 00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:03.820 They've turned all that on, but the most complex thing they can 00:25:03.820 --> 00:25:06.600 answer is like, show me the servers. 00:25:06.610 --> 00:25:08.900 Not what do these things mean? 00:25:09.230 --> 00:25:09.700 Chris: Mm hmm. 00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:11.600 Duke: that these things exist. 00:25:12.025 --> 00:25:12.385 CJ: Yes. 00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:20.870 Duke: And so why is it so hard to go from that to, Oh, because I have this server, 00:25:21.090 --> 00:25:22.640 you know, don't worry about that one. 00:25:22.660 --> 00:25:25.850 That one stores the menus for the lunch rooms at that location 00:25:26.290 --> 00:25:26.790 Chris: Right. 00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:29.636 Duke: versus that one means we don't get paid. 00:25:30.386 --> 00:25:36.423 Chris: Well, that speaks to, some of how the projects are sold and then 00:25:36.423 --> 00:25:37.993 implemented, if we're being honest. 00:25:38.245 --> 00:25:41.815 everybody can come in and say, Hey, let's implement discovery 00:25:41.825 --> 00:25:43.405 and your CMDB is populated. 00:25:43.435 --> 00:25:43.905 Great. 00:25:44.115 --> 00:25:49.875 You have reached the end of stage one and your CMDB, you know, 00:25:49.875 --> 00:25:52.985 what's in your infrastructure and it's automated automatically. 00:25:53.495 --> 00:26:00.385 Then you have to operationalize that, meaning after day two of your operational, 00:26:00.475 --> 00:26:04.345 project has ended, we're now in the operational phase, how do I maintain this 00:26:04.345 --> 00:26:09.195 data and keep it updated and accurate so that my foundation remains strong? 00:26:09.650 --> 00:26:10.190 CJ: right. 00:26:10.325 --> 00:26:12.695 Chris: Then you have to build on it. 00:26:13.375 --> 00:26:15.905 So a lot of people skip that operational step. 00:26:16.115 --> 00:26:19.795 You know, I've, I worked with one customer that implemented discovery 00:26:19.795 --> 00:26:21.075 and didn't touch it for four months. 00:26:21.115 --> 00:26:22.675 And guess what we're doing again. 00:26:24.365 --> 00:26:29.975 So, you know, sometimes I find the joke of there's never enough money to do it. 00:26:29.975 --> 00:26:30.265 Right. 00:26:30.265 --> 00:26:36.455 But there's always money to do it twice comes, comes into play. 00:26:37.085 --> 00:26:41.341 And, you know, it's not like they're bad or even unique. 00:26:41.441 --> 00:26:42.741 This happens a lot. 00:26:42.911 --> 00:26:43.971 And I think. 00:26:44.457 --> 00:26:49.417 Starting at that initial project level, when you're doing that 00:26:49.417 --> 00:26:53.721 implementation, there needs to be that operational and that reporting 00:26:53.721 --> 00:26:55.851 piece baked into the project. 00:26:56.071 --> 00:27:00.231 Now, I know there's a lot of external pressures because of the costs that 00:27:00.231 --> 00:27:04.241 would go up as a result of that, but weighing that against, doing 00:27:04.241 --> 00:27:08.464 it twice, You know, do you want to save money in the long run or not? 00:27:09.109 --> 00:27:12.659 Duke: Well, I always tell them, don't forget the M part of CMDB. 00:27:12.699 --> 00:27:12.899 Right? 00:27:13.814 --> 00:27:14.314 Chris: Yes. 00:27:14.614 --> 00:27:14.914 Yeah. 00:27:15.234 --> 00:27:16.264 That's right in the name. 00:27:16.744 --> 00:27:19.424 Duke: Because it's, it's a verb, , it's not a noun, it's a verb. 00:27:19.621 --> 00:27:23.621 you know, thus EMB, of course that's a verb, but the, the management thereof 00:27:23.641 --> 00:27:27.381 is the verb of the noun and it's just like, but who is going to do this? 00:27:27.881 --> 00:27:28.151 Chris: that's 00:27:28.551 --> 00:27:29.481 Duke: Who's going to do it? 00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:33.339 CJ: And so Chris, , since you do have your CMA, , I'm going to use this 00:27:33.349 --> 00:27:34.959 to get some free consulting, right? 00:27:34.989 --> 00:27:41.482 Um, how would you advise your, clients in this scenario? 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.050 when you say like, don't forget the performance analytics. 00:27:44.050 --> 00:27:45.090 Don't forget the reporting part. 00:27:45.090 --> 00:27:49.230 Don't forget operationalizing, you know, that does add, add Costs to the project. 00:27:49.677 --> 00:27:55.157 so would you advise them to shrink the project , and be more 00:27:55.217 --> 00:27:57.197 complete with what they deliver? 00:27:57.747 --> 00:28:02.517 Or would you advise them to puff up the entirety of the project? 00:28:02.617 --> 00:28:06.607 . And it'll acknowledging that it'll now , take longer and be more expensive. 00:28:07.472 --> 00:28:08.752 Chris: That is a great question. 00:28:08.752 --> 00:28:11.442 And I'll give you an excellent CMA answer. 00:28:11.842 --> 00:28:14.622 It, it, it depends. 00:28:15.922 --> 00:28:17.002 Duke: Oh, I knew it. 00:28:17.402 --> 00:28:17.992 Chris: So, 00:28:18.637 --> 00:28:19.607 CJ: Oh, man! 00:28:19.762 --> 00:28:20.922 Chris: but you don't end, 00:28:21.167 --> 00:28:22.347 CJ: I got consulted! 00:28:23.772 --> 00:28:25.522 Chris: you don't end with just, it depends. 00:28:25.842 --> 00:28:30.252 So it depends on what their goal is and what their strategic vision is. 00:28:30.372 --> 00:28:30.742 So. 00:28:31.107 --> 00:28:37.387 Example 1, I need a system of record to retire a legacy CI tracking tool 00:28:37.387 --> 00:28:39.967 or something of the sort, and I got to move it all into service now 00:28:40.227 --> 00:28:42.177 just to get reporting level data. 00:28:42.277 --> 00:28:45.097 I need to know how many incidents are logged against the server, etc. 00:28:45.467 --> 00:28:49.447 Then in that case, your number 1 priority is the completeness of 00:28:49.447 --> 00:28:51.977 the number of CIs in the CMDB. 00:28:52.332 --> 00:28:56.672 And then you operationalize that versus the reporting performance 00:28:56.672 --> 00:28:57.982 analytics side of things. 00:28:58.382 --> 00:29:04.272 Whereas if I don't need to do something like that, I want to bring in in stages. 00:29:04.917 --> 00:29:09.187 Windows servers and then maybe switches and routers, and I want 00:29:09.187 --> 00:29:13.827 to do service mapping so that I can do total service costing. 00:29:14.144 --> 00:29:19.173 Then it's more staged approach and you go service by service in that way. 00:29:19.223 --> 00:29:22.203 So what's your highest priority business service? 00:29:22.504 --> 00:29:25.824 What's going to cost the company the most if it goes down? 00:29:26.304 --> 00:29:28.504 I used to work for an auctioneering company. 00:29:28.889 --> 00:29:34.299 And if an auction went down at, at the same time that the CEO's 00:29:34.309 --> 00:29:39.565 laptop died, the CEO would wait because the cost of this was higher. 00:29:40.060 --> 00:29:40.370 CJ: Right. 00:29:40.735 --> 00:29:45.249 Chris: And I always admired that company for that culture, because 00:29:45.425 --> 00:29:50.805 rarely , do you see executives put themselves aside in that manner, right? 00:29:50.945 --> 00:29:55.185 And it wasn't just the CEO, it was anybody. 00:29:55.465 --> 00:29:57.985 Duke: It's new outside of bread there, but there's buttered on right 00:29:58.220 --> 00:29:58.770 Chris: Mhm. 00:29:58.990 --> 00:29:59.320 Right. 00:29:59.350 --> 00:30:03.040 And it was all about focusing on supporting that. 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.930 Another example is I did work at Best Buy, and during the holiday season, they would 00:30:07.930 --> 00:30:13.390 make the majority of their money, and if, a credit card machine went down, that was 00:30:13.390 --> 00:30:20.240 a higher priority to store than, you know, a director's, they also had that same 00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:25.440 mentality and that was a culture thing in the company, which was really cascaded 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.720 throughout the entire organization. 00:30:28.095 --> 00:30:28.275 Duke: on. 00:30:28.275 --> 00:30:28.625 This is, 00:30:29.020 --> 00:30:29.830 Chris: appreciated that side of things. 00:30:30.185 --> 00:30:32.625 Duke: this reminds me of a topic I love talking about. 00:30:32.768 --> 00:30:36.748 When you're doing implementations and you get the partners that all they care 00:30:36.748 --> 00:30:40.868 about is their best practices that they've discovered over the course of however 00:30:40.868 --> 00:30:44.668 many implementations, but they're not paying attention to those nuances of. 00:30:45.013 --> 00:30:46.933 What business is being done here? 00:30:47.267 --> 00:30:51.927 I worked in the advertising industry and if you called into the help desk 00:30:51.927 --> 00:30:53.657 saying this projector didn't work. 00:30:54.138 --> 00:30:57.708 and it's at any other company that's like, whatever, call the AB club, you 00:30:57.708 --> 00:31:01.708 know, get your teenager on, but in media and advertising, it's like, black 00:31:01.708 --> 00:31:04.928 helicopter commandos, running up the side of the building and smashing through 00:31:04.928 --> 00:31:07.778 the glass to get into the room as fast as they can to fix that projector. 00:31:07.798 --> 00:31:10.758 Cause that could be a multi million dollar pitch is going down 00:31:11.294 --> 00:31:11.694 Chris: Yep. 00:31:11.788 --> 00:31:12.868 Duke: for an ad campaign. 00:31:13.288 --> 00:31:15.618 gosh, I'm dating myself that they even did those on projectors. 00:31:15.918 --> 00:31:16.168 But, 00:31:16.653 --> 00:31:18.304 Chris: Little, little bit, little bit. 00:31:18.588 --> 00:31:22.208 Duke: but it was anything that was the interaction stuff we do every day on zoom. 00:31:22.208 --> 00:31:24.648 Now they had like these telepresence rooms and stuff like that. 00:31:24.868 --> 00:31:27.908 And it was just the most white glove service you could ever imagine, 00:31:27.908 --> 00:31:30.048 but you'd never know because it's just a big corporate entity. 00:31:30.468 --> 00:31:32.758 And then you get healthcare and they talk about, you know, some of 00:31:32.768 --> 00:31:35.618 the devices that nurses carry, or some of the databases they have. 00:31:35.848 --> 00:31:38.448 And it's just like, who cares about anything else? 00:31:38.878 --> 00:31:41.138 The cost of failure here is lives lost. 00:31:41.677 --> 00:31:45.493 or lawsuits that we're about to get, , entrenched in you know, rather than 00:31:45.493 --> 00:31:49.133 talking about, Oh, what's the best prices for incident category tree. 00:31:49.703 --> 00:31:50.133 Um, 00:31:50.933 --> 00:31:56.730 I love talking about the things that make that company stay up at night worrying, 00:31:57.275 --> 00:31:58.295 CJ: Yeah, right. 00:31:58.295 --> 00:32:01.555 I guess about , what the company's North star is, . What their missions 00:32:01.825 --> 00:32:05.175 is, . And how do you align the product with those things to ensure that 00:32:05.395 --> 00:32:07.325 everybody's moving in the right direction? 00:32:07.925 --> 00:32:09.455 Chris: yep, exactly. 00:32:09.895 --> 00:32:12.665 And then you add in the calendar factor. 00:32:12.775 --> 00:32:17.495 The payroll system going down when there's 10 days to payday isn't 00:32:17.545 --> 00:32:20.955 as high of a priority as if it goes down the day before payday. 00:32:21.288 --> 00:32:21.848 CJ: Right. 00:32:22.185 --> 00:32:27.025 Chris: companies need to have first that CMDB's foundation strong 00:32:27.125 --> 00:32:32.085 and operationalized, Then they can build upon it and grow it. 00:32:32.805 --> 00:32:37.005 And then from there they can build their service models out and have 00:32:37.005 --> 00:32:41.085 that total service understanding of everything that underpins it. 00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:46.479 And then they can prioritize to their little heart's content and invest 00:32:46.899 --> 00:32:48.969 in the areas that they need to. 00:32:49.459 --> 00:32:54.189 But they, I always looked at that CMDB and CSDM frame the framework 00:32:54.189 --> 00:32:56.919 as like , the largest launchpad. 00:32:56.949 --> 00:32:59.319 'cause it feeds so many things. 00:32:59.849 --> 00:33:00.769 , in the platform. 00:33:01.229 --> 00:33:07.089 And then when you can layer on sophisticated reporting and advanced 00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:11.189 performance analytics, like you can bring to the table, Duke, you'll 00:33:11.549 --> 00:33:18.145 have just an unbelievable advantage in visibility alone against anybody. 00:33:18.575 --> 00:33:21.585 Your industry or not, your competitors are not just against. 00:33:22.085 --> 00:33:26.372 Anybody, but you have to invest in it and you have to work towards it and you have 00:33:26.372 --> 00:33:28.372 to work and commit to maintaining it. 00:33:28.899 --> 00:33:34.539 And those are the, the areas where I think a lot of companies struggle to is, 00:33:34.639 --> 00:33:35.659 especially with that maintenance piece. 00:33:36.388 --> 00:33:40.538 Duke: man, we're like, we're like 60 seconds away from 40 minutes to record. 00:33:40.538 --> 00:33:40.818 Like, 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:42.158 Chris: That's what 00:33:43.238 --> 00:33:45.358 Duke: how could we have possibly ended better? 00:33:45.358 --> 00:33:48.058 That was like, you've been guiding us towards this all the time. 00:33:48.068 --> 00:33:49.198 Chris, you pulled a magic trick off. 00:33:50.869 --> 00:33:51.259 Chris: Ta da! 00:33:53.148 --> 00:33:54.778 Duke: can get that pitch in right at the end. 00:33:54.848 --> 00:33:55.468 That's amazing. 00:33:56.063 --> 00:33:56.803 CJ: No, absolutely. 00:33:56.803 --> 00:33:57.083 Chris. 00:33:57.093 --> 00:33:57.833 , this has been great. 00:33:57.873 --> 00:34:01.833 , it's been awesome talking to both a magician and a, , and a CMA. 00:34:01.833 --> 00:34:02.053 Right. 00:34:02.053 --> 00:34:03.613 And maybe that's what the M stands for. 00:34:03.823 --> 00:34:04.183 Um, 00:34:07.264 --> 00:34:09.064 Chris: I guess maybe it's C M M A 00:34:09.263 --> 00:34:10.263 CJ: yeah, there we go. 00:34:10.434 --> 00:34:14.393 Chris: now I sound like a fighter, and I'm not a fighter, so. 00:34:14.874 --> 00:34:17.014 Well, I hope you guys are going to knowledge, and I'll show 00:34:17.014 --> 00:34:18.383 you some of the magic stuff. 00:34:18.553 --> 00:34:18.803 CJ: will 00:34:18.928 --> 00:34:19.698 Duke: definitely are. 00:34:20.054 --> 00:34:22.000 Chris: Alright, well, Yes, 00:34:22.015 --> 00:34:23.575 Duke: and gentlemen, this has been Chris Hsu. 00:34:23.625 --> 00:34:25.925 , thanks so much for listening and I guess we will see you on the next one. 00:34:26.950 --> 00:34:27.440 Chris: for having me. 00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:28.610 CJ: Absolutely. 00:34:28.705 --> 00:34:29.745 Duke: Still no outro though. 00:34:29.990 --> 00:34:30.990 CJ: Still no outro.