1 00:00:05,421 --> 00:00:11,421 Good morning Grid Connections listeners and welcome back to another episode. 2 00:00:11,481 --> 00:00:16,399 In case you may have not listened this Grid Connections podcast is where we 3 00:00:16,399 --> 00:00:21,569 explore the innovations and mind shaping the future of energy, transportation and 4 00:00:21,569 --> 00:00:22,719 sustainability. 5 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:28,239 Today we're excited to have a very special guest, Yakov Berenshteyn the director of 6 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:30,527 partnerships at Gridweave. 7 00:00:30,543 --> 00:00:34,613 a pioneering company at the forefront of integrating renewable energy into our 8 00:00:34,613 --> 00:00:36,023 everyday lives. 9 00:00:36,183 --> 00:00:40,483 In this episode, Yakov will share insights into how GridWeave is transforming the 10 00:00:40,483 --> 00:00:44,923 energy landscape through strategic partnerships and cutting -edge technology. 11 00:00:44,923 --> 00:00:47,903 We'll dive into the challenges and opportunities of creating a more 12 00:00:47,903 --> 00:00:52,913 sustainable and efficient grid while tying the needs of electric vehicles to a smart 13 00:00:52,913 --> 00:00:57,763 and much more efficient way of making clean transportation possible, the impact 14 00:00:57,763 --> 00:01:00,271 of digitalization on energy consumption, 15 00:01:00,271 --> 00:01:04,171 and what the future holds for renewable energy integration. 16 00:01:04,671 --> 00:01:08,841 But first, while I was recording this episode yesterday, Yakov mentioned there 17 00:01:08,841 --> 00:01:13,851 would be a big announcement with an auto OEM, and so I'm excited that I can be one 18 00:01:13,851 --> 00:01:17,411 of the first to share the press release with you now. 19 00:01:18,031 --> 00:01:22,181 Weave Grid and Toyota is announcing a partnership that empowers Toyota drivers 20 00:01:22,181 --> 00:01:26,081 to save money while charging their vehicles at home and to contribute to a 21 00:01:26,081 --> 00:01:28,511 cleaner, more resilient electric grid. 22 00:01:28,591 --> 00:01:34,311 In 2023 Toyota sold over 54 ,000 plug -in electric cars in the U .S. 23 00:01:34,311 --> 00:01:40,451 including 14 ,715 all electric and almost 40 ,000 plug -in hybrids. 24 00:01:40,451 --> 00:01:44,661 The Weave Grid and Toyota partnership leverages Weave Grid's intelligent 25 00:01:44,661 --> 00:01:48,991 software platform in concert with the telematic systems on Toyota's electric 26 00:01:48,991 --> 00:01:53,681 vehicles to provide actionable EV load management capabilities to the country's 27 00:01:53,681 --> 00:01:56,655 largest electric utilities as well as allowing 28 00:01:56,655 --> 00:02:00,715 Toyota EV drivers to save money on their utility bill. 29 00:02:01,035 --> 00:02:02,315 So why is this important? 30 00:02:02,315 --> 00:02:03,795 You may be asking. 31 00:02:03,795 --> 00:02:07,695 Partnerships like these help the adoption of EVs by allowing drivers to save money 32 00:02:07,695 --> 00:02:09,615 while charging their vehicle. 33 00:02:09,615 --> 00:02:13,635 This partnership also helps utilities work closely with automakers to manage the load 34 00:02:13,635 --> 00:02:16,605 on the grid, which we'll be discussing quite a bit today. 35 00:02:16,605 --> 00:02:21,055 So I'm really excited to share this with you, along with just some of the general 36 00:02:21,055 --> 00:02:24,665 perspectives that Yakov was able to share around some of the challenges and 37 00:02:24,665 --> 00:02:25,903 misperceptions. 38 00:02:25,903 --> 00:02:30,933 that his company has seen from both the utility on the automaker side and in some 39 00:02:30,933 --> 00:02:33,723 of the ways that their technology addresses those. 40 00:02:33,783 --> 00:02:38,693 So whether you're a professional in the energy sector, a technology enthusiast, or 41 00:02:38,693 --> 00:02:43,853 someone passionate about sustainability, this conversation promises to be a very 42 00:02:43,853 --> 00:02:48,213 valuable perspective on how we can collectively move forward towards a much 43 00:02:48,213 --> 00:02:51,681 greener and more efficient future. 44 00:02:52,175 --> 00:02:56,395 And if you find today's discussion as enlightening as we do, we have a small but 45 00:02:56,395 --> 00:02:58,255 impactful request. 46 00:02:58,375 --> 00:03:03,135 Please share the episode with at least one other listener you think would enjoy it. 47 00:03:03,135 --> 00:03:07,025 Spreading the word helps us connect with more like -minded individuals and really 48 00:03:07,025 --> 00:03:13,455 helps to grow this podcast and what we can do for our listeners such as yourselves. 49 00:03:13,475 --> 00:03:17,415 So let's see how Gridweave is connecting the dots on the energy grid today with 50 00:03:17,415 --> 00:03:22,077 their director of partnerships, Yakov Berenshteyn With that, 51 00:03:22,263 --> 00:03:22,757 Enjoy! 52 00:03:22,755 --> 00:03:23,316 thanks, Chase. 53 00:03:23,316 --> 00:03:26,517 I'm the director of automotive and charging partnerships for a company called 54 00:03:26,517 --> 00:03:27,457 WeaveGrid. 55 00:03:27,878 --> 00:03:30,939 We're about an 85 person company out of San Francisco. 56 00:03:30,939 --> 00:03:36,341 And while our mission kind of in the biggest picture is to help decarbonize 57 00:03:36,341 --> 00:03:41,904 transportation, what we specifically do is we've created a software platform that 58 00:03:41,904 --> 00:03:47,566 sits between the electric utilities on which people are now charging their many 59 00:03:47,566 --> 00:03:48,686 new EVs. 60 00:03:48,983 --> 00:03:53,228 And on the other hand, on the other side, the automakers and some of the charging 61 00:03:53,228 --> 00:04:00,417 hardware providers whose data and controls are enabling us to deliver a new set of 62 00:04:00,417 --> 00:04:04,703 grid services that are of value to the utilities, to the automakers, to the 63 00:04:04,703 --> 00:04:07,747 charging providers, and of course, the drivers who sit in the middle of it all. 64 00:04:07,747 --> 00:04:11,272 And I'm kind of curious, how did you get involved with this? 65 00:04:11,272 --> 00:04:13,455 How did you get connected to electric vehicles? 66 00:04:13,455 --> 00:04:16,480 Was this purely kind of a job opportunity? 67 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,762 Was it just an interest in the space? 68 00:04:19,561 --> 00:04:24,785 Yeah, it's sort of a, you know, one of those circuitous stories where in 69 00:04:24,785 --> 00:04:30,489 retrospect, it's a combination of right place, right time, right friends, I guess. 70 00:04:31,351 --> 00:04:37,616 I am admittedly not a car guy per se, but I am sort of a generalist whose pretty 71 00:04:37,616 --> 00:04:41,499 much my whole career has been the intersection of environmental 72 00:04:41,499 --> 00:04:45,122 sustainability, clean technology, and business. 73 00:04:45,122 --> 00:04:48,205 And so, you know, previous gigs have 74 00:04:48,205 --> 00:04:53,467 been around consulting to corporates on new innovations and technologies for 75 00:04:53,467 --> 00:04:55,667 utilities in the industrial sector. 76 00:04:56,348 --> 00:05:01,170 I helped a large utility pour a bunch of money into residential solar back in the 77 00:05:01,170 --> 00:05:06,912 day, hopped over to a fleet telematics oriented company out of grad school, and 78 00:05:06,912 --> 00:05:10,934 then sort of, you know, right place, right time with the right connections found out 79 00:05:10,934 --> 00:05:16,756 about this 10 person company peak COVID pandemic, spring 2020. 80 00:05:17,361 --> 00:05:21,462 and thought to myself, well, you know, the world's going to hell in hand baskets. 81 00:05:21,462 --> 00:05:23,723 Why not join a 10 person startup? 82 00:05:23,723 --> 00:05:25,643 What's the worst that could happen? 83 00:05:25,963 --> 00:05:30,405 Um, lo and behold, uh, almost four years later, still, still enjoying it. 84 00:05:30,405 --> 00:05:35,687 Companies grown, uh, eight or nine X and sort of head counts, uh, have raised $50 85 00:05:35,687 --> 00:05:40,228 million and, um, I've gotten to play a few different roles and have enjoyed every day 86 00:05:40,228 --> 00:05:41,188 of it so far. 87 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:42,699 That's great. 88 00:05:42,699 --> 00:05:48,244 And I think this is a great thing to kind of be discussing because even though 89 00:05:48,244 --> 00:05:51,386 lately I feel like our focus really has been around electric vehicles and electric 90 00:05:51,386 --> 00:05:54,889 vehicle charging, the name of the podcast is Great Connection. 91 00:05:54,889 --> 00:06:00,134 So there is obviously a large focus on how this ties the grid, how it kind of helps 92 00:06:00,134 --> 00:06:06,078 to enable better use of cleaner energy to be then kind of being the background. 93 00:06:06,499 --> 00:06:08,761 with this transportation revolution. 94 00:06:08,761 --> 00:06:12,944 And so that was part of the reason I was excited to have you on today. 95 00:06:13,184 --> 00:06:19,029 And I realize, even though, like you're saying, your background might not be, I 96 00:06:19,029 --> 00:06:22,372 think we're gonna be talking a lot of these different areas that I know I will 97 00:06:22,372 --> 00:06:24,453 be and quite a few of the listeners will be interested in. 98 00:06:24,453 --> 00:06:27,796 So let's kind of jump into it then. 99 00:06:27,796 --> 00:06:34,141 With partnerships at WeaveGrid, where do companies kind of come to interact with 100 00:06:34,141 --> 00:06:35,202 you most commonly? 101 00:06:35,202 --> 00:06:35,942 Is it? 102 00:06:35,959 --> 00:06:40,538 As an EV manufacturer, is it a utility or what does that look like? 103 00:06:41,417 --> 00:06:43,178 Yeah, so it's interesting. 104 00:06:43,178 --> 00:06:48,281 We've really created this two-sided platform that's growing on both sides. 105 00:06:48,281 --> 00:06:52,044 One is the electric utilities, the other is the car companies and the charger 106 00:06:52,044 --> 00:06:53,024 companies. 107 00:06:53,325 --> 00:06:57,207 Our initial client base has been the electric utilities. 108 00:06:57,307 --> 00:07:01,430 So the US super fragmented in its electric utilities. 109 00:07:01,430 --> 00:07:03,431 There's about 3,000 of them. 110 00:07:03,812 --> 00:07:05,994 Many of those are tiny co-ops, so we'll put them 111 00:07:05,994 --> 00:07:09,776 What's happening with them is they're seeing EV adoption take off. 112 00:07:09,776 --> 00:07:14,859 Of course, it's very clustered and inconsistent from state to state, 113 00:07:14,859 --> 00:07:16,499 geography to geography. 114 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:22,463 But this is really starting to strain their local electric distribution grids in 115 00:07:22,463 --> 00:07:23,504 particular. 116 00:07:23,564 --> 00:07:28,207 And so they're looking to solutions like ours to help them optimize the charging 117 00:07:28,207 --> 00:07:29,928 loads on those networks. 118 00:07:29,928 --> 00:07:33,409 And then on the flip side, the way we... 119 00:07:33,446 --> 00:07:38,988 optimize those charging loads on the networks is we tap into the data and 120 00:07:38,988 --> 00:07:42,909 controls that are streaming either from the EVs themselves. 121 00:07:42,909 --> 00:07:47,771 So when you think sort of software defined vehicle, EV telematics, there's a lot of 122 00:07:47,771 --> 00:07:52,774 buzzwords, but we are very much tapping into kind of like the real deal data and 123 00:07:52,774 --> 00:07:53,874 controls on vehicles. 124 00:07:53,874 --> 00:08:01,157 We're also tapping into that with the EVSC, the silly acronym on what which 125 00:08:01,157 --> 00:08:02,238 really just means chargers. 126 00:08:02,238 --> 00:08:06,820 And so we're able to provide sort of this agnostic platform to utilities where they 127 00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:12,963 can tap into this range of devices and vehicles for those grid services. 128 00:08:13,144 --> 00:08:17,186 But then those automakers and charging companies are also coming to us and 129 00:08:17,186 --> 00:08:22,069 saying, okay, so WeaveGrid helps connect our vehicles, our drivers to the grid in 130 00:08:22,069 --> 00:08:24,850 this sort of new participatory fashion. 131 00:08:25,751 --> 00:08:29,192 We want to have grid interactive vehicles as well. 132 00:08:29,192 --> 00:08:31,453 We want to get into the sort of eventual 133 00:08:31,466 --> 00:08:36,489 bidirectional game of backup power and export to the grid, help us figure out the 134 00:08:36,489 --> 00:08:38,491 crawl lock run to get there. 135 00:08:38,491 --> 00:08:43,594 And so kind of where my role has kind of even shifted a little bit in the last 18 136 00:08:43,594 --> 00:08:49,138 months is going from, hey, automaker, do you want to work with us to sort of 137 00:08:49,138 --> 00:08:53,582 support these utility programs to, hey, it sounds like you actually want to go. 138 00:08:53,582 --> 00:08:58,146 bigger, you actually want to not do this as like a one-off here and there with a 139 00:08:58,146 --> 00:09:01,690 couple utilities, but you really want the future of your electric vehicles to be 140 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:02,871 grid interactive. 141 00:09:02,871 --> 00:09:07,296 Like Weave Grid's built up the sort of know-how and capability to help you design 142 00:09:07,296 --> 00:09:07,596 for that. 143 00:09:07,596 --> 00:09:12,502 And so now we're on one side, this utility software on the other side, this sort of 144 00:09:12,502 --> 00:09:16,645 OEM facing software and almost technical advisory kind of service. 145 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:21,301 Yeah, that's really interesting because one of the things I think we've discussed 146 00:09:21,301 --> 00:09:26,964 with quite a few guests lately is over, I would say definitely just over the course 147 00:09:26,964 --> 00:09:30,745 of 2023, but especially in the last six months, so many of these technologies that 148 00:09:30,745 --> 00:09:35,427 have been hyped up around whether it was autonomy or especially kind of a vehicle 149 00:09:35,427 --> 00:09:36,388 to grid. 150 00:09:36,388 --> 00:09:41,069 There's definitely been a lot of kind of taking some steps back and maybe it's 151 00:09:41,069 --> 00:09:44,771 reality and obviously the markets and a bit, a lot of different changes that have 152 00:09:44,771 --> 00:09:46,211 kind of impacted. 153 00:09:46,348 --> 00:09:48,928 Uh, the announcements versus the reality. 154 00:09:49,329 --> 00:09:52,730 And there are still quite a few players that are serious about it and do see the 155 00:09:52,730 --> 00:09:56,231 long-term need, and that is just where it seems like a lot of things are going. 156 00:09:56,231 --> 00:09:59,833 But I would be kind of curious if you could just walk us through what does the 157 00:09:59,833 --> 00:10:05,195 crawl walk, run approach for that kind of transition for vehicle to grid and the 158 00:10:05,195 --> 00:10:07,495 adoption of these utilities to implement that. 159 00:10:08,346 --> 00:10:09,126 Sure, yeah. 160 00:10:09,466 --> 00:10:10,046 I'll touch on that. 161 00:10:10,046 --> 00:10:16,529 And I'll first caveat that WeaveGrid today is very centrally focused on the home 162 00:10:16,529 --> 00:10:18,450 charging experience for consumers. 163 00:10:18,450 --> 00:10:20,591 That is of course one segment. 164 00:10:20,591 --> 00:10:26,253 There are things like Explorations, other companies, and a little bit of us as well 165 00:10:26,253 --> 00:10:29,454 doing things like depot charging for heavy duty vehicles. 166 00:10:29,995 --> 00:10:34,397 Totally different paradigm of charging needs and impacts on the grid. 167 00:10:34,397 --> 00:10:36,430 So for the sake of like focusing this. 168 00:10:36,430 --> 00:10:40,471 conversation a little bit, I'll touch on sort of what's happening and that consumer 169 00:10:40,471 --> 00:10:45,133 comes home with their first EV, wants to know how to charge in their garage or in 170 00:10:45,133 --> 00:10:48,935 their parking spot and the utility needs to do something about that. 171 00:10:50,215 --> 00:10:54,517 The sort of initial crawl in a lot of cases has been utilities just better 172 00:10:54,517 --> 00:11:00,600 understanding where that charging is happening, where it's clustering, what 173 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,461 kind of peak loads are being hit at that sort of granular level down to the... 174 00:11:05,522 --> 00:11:10,345 address, but then also aggregate it up to a service transformer on the grid or a 175 00:11:10,345 --> 00:11:12,286 feeder or a zip code. 176 00:11:12,386 --> 00:11:14,148 So just starting to understand those hotspots. 177 00:11:14,148 --> 00:11:15,849 That's kind of like the crawl. 178 00:11:15,849 --> 00:11:19,952 And the way we can do that is just by using telemetry on vehicles and devices to 179 00:11:19,952 --> 00:11:24,075 understand that aggregated picture and show utility, hey, here are where your 180 00:11:24,075 --> 00:11:24,795 hotspots are. 181 00:11:24,795 --> 00:11:30,159 You can now plug that into sort of forecasting and operational management 182 00:11:30,159 --> 00:11:31,760 tools that you have. 183 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,210 The next level is then, okay. 184 00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:36,991 So we know where we're starting to get these hotspots. 185 00:11:36,991 --> 00:11:41,955 We know, you know, we being either WeaveGrid or the utility or both together 186 00:11:41,955 --> 00:11:47,539 know, hey, you know, we have a pretty outdated hardware, electrical hardware out 187 00:11:47,539 --> 00:11:48,780 in that hotspot. 188 00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:50,541 How do we manage around that? 189 00:11:51,542 --> 00:11:58,026 The first level is sort of behavioral nudges and points of engagement to 190 00:11:58,026 --> 00:11:58,867 drivers. 191 00:11:58,867 --> 00:12:00,788 Utilities typically do that through rates, right? 192 00:12:00,788 --> 00:12:02,769 You set a time of use rate that says, 193 00:12:03,010 --> 00:12:04,791 Hey, please charge after 9 p.m. 194 00:12:05,572 --> 00:12:06,392 off peak window. 195 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:07,973 You'll save some money. 196 00:12:08,234 --> 00:12:14,519 And that goes a pretty good distance to sort of offset those peak loads and other 197 00:12:14,519 --> 00:12:14,999 constraints. 198 00:12:14,999 --> 00:12:18,562 But of course you also get the secondary effects like, all right, you told everyone 199 00:12:18,562 --> 00:12:19,903 to start charging at 9 p.m. 200 00:12:19,903 --> 00:12:20,444 Guess what? 201 00:12:20,444 --> 00:12:21,685 Everyone's charging at 9 p.m. 202 00:12:21,685 --> 00:12:22,365 now. 203 00:12:22,886 --> 00:12:24,267 The power plants are fine now. 204 00:12:24,267 --> 00:12:29,151 We're not gonna run out of power, but the local grid at the, you know, kind of the, 205 00:12:29,151 --> 00:12:32,693 again, the transformer at the end of your cul-de-sac, now that that... 206 00:12:32,866 --> 00:12:35,526 Neighborhood has seven EVs in it. 207 00:12:35,526 --> 00:12:38,627 That's where you start to get that hyperlocal strain. 208 00:12:38,627 --> 00:12:44,089 And so the next step up is actually actively manage charging. 209 00:12:44,089 --> 00:12:49,850 So we get opt-in and consents from the driver and design a program with utilities 210 00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:53,732 such that they can actually automate the charging on behalf of the driver. 211 00:12:53,732 --> 00:12:56,712 So it's a very sort of set it and forget it kind of mentality. 212 00:12:56,712 --> 00:13:00,733 You plug in at night, the charging might not start right away. 213 00:13:00,754 --> 00:13:01,314 Interesting. 214 00:13:01,314 --> 00:13:05,176 designed to make sure that you, the driver, get the charge you need that you 215 00:13:05,176 --> 00:13:08,638 specified by the time you wake up and use your car in the morning. 216 00:13:09,239 --> 00:13:14,342 But it's co-optimized with the local grid constraints, the bulk utility system 217 00:13:14,342 --> 00:13:22,668 constraints, as well as other drivers in your respected region of aggregation. 218 00:13:22,668 --> 00:13:24,984 There's additional layers of complexity here. 219 00:13:24,984 --> 00:13:25,450 for sure. 220 00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:29,911 the, yeah, the pinnacle is really around solving for the distribution challenge. 221 00:13:29,911 --> 00:13:37,274 And that's where we have some patented IP on algorithms that solve for that really, 222 00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:41,335 really nuanced electric distribution challenge relative to EVs. 223 00:13:41,335 --> 00:13:46,237 And so that's kind of the North Star, and that's where our most progressive and 224 00:13:46,237 --> 00:13:48,578 innovative utility clients are starting to push things. 225 00:13:48,578 --> 00:13:50,779 Yeah, that's a really interesting use case. 226 00:13:50,779 --> 00:13:51,919 And that kind of makes sense. 227 00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:57,862 Just, I guess to use a hypothetical, if you have 10 different people in a 228 00:13:57,862 --> 00:14:02,744 cul-de-sac who are charging their EVs and maybe one's like a really efficient small, 229 00:14:02,744 --> 00:14:04,925 like a Tesla Model 3 or something. 230 00:14:05,065 --> 00:14:08,426 And then someone has like a Hummer EV that's gonna take all night to charge, 231 00:14:08,426 --> 00:14:13,669 your system can kind of actively move around, which does it get to that level? 232 00:14:13,669 --> 00:14:15,849 I mean, when you talk about complexity of like, 233 00:14:15,958 --> 00:14:19,567 where the car needs to be and the battery pack and all sorts of different kind of 234 00:14:19,567 --> 00:14:20,949 variables like that. 235 00:14:21,512 --> 00:14:22,072 Short answer. 236 00:14:22,072 --> 00:14:27,116 Yes, it's moving, you know in a more sophisticated direction over time. 237 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:34,403 One thing that's interesting and not yet sort of fully fleshed out in the sort of 238 00:14:34,403 --> 00:14:43,550 utility you kind of program paradigms or regulations is What what is the sort of 239 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:47,113 you know, there's some like philosophical questions that end up being debated 240 00:14:47,113 --> 00:14:48,976 through sort of the legal 241 00:14:48,976 --> 00:14:52,359 happenings of public utility commissions and so on, but it's like, okay, so to your 242 00:14:52,359 --> 00:14:55,942 point, there's a small little EV and there's a big, big EV. 243 00:14:56,744 --> 00:15:02,850 Does big EV have preference over the small EV because they need more charge in terms 244 00:15:02,850 --> 00:15:04,371 of who charges first? 245 00:15:05,152 --> 00:15:07,274 What about when you go bidirectional? 246 00:15:07,574 --> 00:15:13,059 Clearly the big EV has more potential to feed power back to... 247 00:15:13,296 --> 00:15:17,700 the grid, should they be compensated more by the utility in a bidirectional 248 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:18,340 paradigm? 249 00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:22,704 Or is that then inequitable because you're just rewarding the person that can afford 250 00:15:22,704 --> 00:15:23,165 the bigger car? 251 00:15:23,165 --> 00:15:29,490 These are questions that have not yet been fully settled yet, even like they've been 252 00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:33,774 addressed in some forums, but we're far from a full picture as to what that's 253 00:15:33,774 --> 00:15:35,615 going to look like in the next 10 years. 254 00:15:35,798 --> 00:15:41,120 Yeah, that is an interesting point, but I could also see those interests being very, 255 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,481 I think with a lot of the stuff we're talking about regionally focused. 256 00:15:44,501 --> 00:15:48,723 Uh, and I, I'm kind of curious when you talk about the crawl walk, run approach, a 257 00:15:48,723 --> 00:15:54,266 lot of the stuff you talked about in the crawl phase seems like a big part. 258 00:15:54,266 --> 00:15:58,087 It's data driven, but a big part is that education piece. 259 00:15:58,527 --> 00:16:03,669 And do you find that, um, if you can share this, is that. 260 00:16:03,806 --> 00:16:08,950 Education being seeked out by the utility, like coming to you to ask those questions, 261 00:16:08,950 --> 00:16:13,553 or is it a pretty big, like you have to reach out to them, show that this is the 262 00:16:13,553 --> 00:16:18,097 solution you're solving for, and this is kind of the data and the demand from your 263 00:16:18,337 --> 00:16:23,802 user base or, uh, energy providers to actually go down the path and make those 264 00:16:23,802 --> 00:16:28,345 changes or to, to make the question even longer, is that also very regionally 265 00:16:28,345 --> 00:16:28,666 based? 266 00:16:28,666 --> 00:16:35,510 Yeah, I wish I had, you know, I think the answer that a lot of folks expect in to 267 00:16:35,510 --> 00:16:39,692 that question is like, oh, it's all about California first and everyone else later. 268 00:16:39,692 --> 00:16:43,794 That's actually not how we've seen it play out per se. 269 00:16:44,295 --> 00:16:47,617 Certainly, I remember like four years ago, some of our sort of like business 270 00:16:47,617 --> 00:16:53,700 development conversations with utilities with someone in Idaho or Ohio is a little 271 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:55,974 bit like, hey, don't you want this to track where... 272 00:16:55,974 --> 00:16:59,595 EV hotspots are happening and they're like, I can't imagine there's EV hotspots. 273 00:16:59,595 --> 00:17:03,796 Like I saw my first, you know, Tesla, uh, three months ago and I haven't seen one 274 00:17:03,796 --> 00:17:04,456 since. 275 00:17:04,456 --> 00:17:08,057 Um, so there definitely were those types of conversations. 276 00:17:08,057 --> 00:17:11,178 Those are now starting to evolve where those utilities are coming to us and 277 00:17:11,178 --> 00:17:15,239 saying, Oh, yep, now that we have a little bit more mass adoption, um, we're 278 00:17:15,239 --> 00:17:17,039 interested in this problem, of course. 279 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:24,641 Um, within a given utility, um, you know, like a hypothetical utility and like the 280 00:17:24,641 --> 00:17:25,701 Midwest. 281 00:17:26,062 --> 00:17:32,067 There might be a central mid-sized city to that utility and then a lot of suburban or 282 00:17:32,067 --> 00:17:35,069 mostly rural outskirts. 283 00:17:35,069 --> 00:17:43,456 Of course, it's that one or two suburbs to that mid-sized city where all the EVs are. 284 00:17:43,456 --> 00:17:47,280 While they don't represent the kind of growth you see in California, they do 285 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:53,726 represent the same like, oops, the local grid was not designed for... 286 00:17:53,726 --> 00:17:57,068 this home or this cul-de-sac, this neighborhood, to have this many EVs. 287 00:17:57,068 --> 00:18:04,872 I'll say, yeah, the other interesting thing is, of course, there is variability 288 00:18:04,872 --> 00:18:10,375 by policy developments at a state-by-state level. 289 00:18:10,676 --> 00:18:16,979 The public utility commissions are all run at the state level, so you get this, yeah, 290 00:18:16,979 --> 00:18:19,420 just kind of variability across the country. 291 00:18:19,761 --> 00:18:20,521 But... 292 00:18:21,518 --> 00:18:26,159 Again, going back to the question you didn't ask of, is this all about 293 00:18:26,159 --> 00:18:26,639 California? 294 00:18:26,639 --> 00:18:31,340 Actually, our flagship utility client has been Baltimore Gas and Electric in 295 00:18:31,340 --> 00:18:32,260 Maryland. 296 00:18:34,041 --> 00:18:40,703 The combination of, I think, innovative policy at the state level and focus on 297 00:18:40,703 --> 00:18:45,866 transportation electrification with the local demographics, the... 298 00:18:45,866 --> 00:18:52,088 the ages and the incomes and the population types that are most likely to 299 00:18:52,088 --> 00:18:57,171 buy EVs, we're all kind of concentrated there in the last three or four years. 300 00:18:57,171 --> 00:19:02,173 And we've had this great utility partner with whom we started on relatively basic 301 00:19:02,553 --> 00:19:03,334 implementations. 302 00:19:03,334 --> 00:19:06,595 And then every step of the way, they've been this great partner of, okay, what's 303 00:19:06,595 --> 00:19:07,335 next? 304 00:19:07,335 --> 00:19:11,497 We've done this thing with Weaver for a year on sort of passive engagement of 305 00:19:11,497 --> 00:19:12,477 drivers. 306 00:19:12,962 --> 00:19:15,223 We now have a bunch more EVs than when we started. 307 00:19:15,223 --> 00:19:15,923 What do we do next? 308 00:19:15,923 --> 00:19:18,045 Okay, let's go like really active managed charging. 309 00:19:18,045 --> 00:19:20,226 Okay, 12 months, goodbye, 18 months, goodbye. 310 00:19:20,226 --> 00:19:20,806 What's next? 311 00:19:20,806 --> 00:19:24,709 We have a ton more EVs than 18 months ago and we've gotten into increasingly 312 00:19:24,709 --> 00:19:27,570 sophisticated deployments with them. 313 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:32,413 So that's been just like a great paradigm for us to copy in other utilities since 314 00:19:32,413 --> 00:19:33,053 then. 315 00:19:33,812 --> 00:19:34,252 For sure. 316 00:19:34,252 --> 00:19:37,415 And I'm kind of curious, can you share when you're talking about that crawl, 317 00:19:37,415 --> 00:19:40,658 walk, run approach, I've definitely worked with some clients where they're really 318 00:19:40,658 --> 00:19:44,341 fun, but they are pushing kind of the limits of what the technology is able to 319 00:19:44,341 --> 00:19:44,501 do. 320 00:19:44,501 --> 00:19:49,425 And then that fortunately does unlock greater products that you can kind of then 321 00:19:49,425 --> 00:19:53,569 obviously productize further and sell to other clients, but can you share kind of 322 00:19:53,569 --> 00:19:58,093 any of the maybe upcoming products that you're excited for in this year that we've 323 00:19:58,093 --> 00:20:00,736 grid is working on that's kind of being pushed in that direction? 324 00:20:00,736 --> 00:20:01,756 Oh, good question. 325 00:20:01,756 --> 00:20:02,397 What can I share? 326 00:20:02,397 --> 00:20:06,159 Well, I can answer it from maybe two fronts. 327 00:20:06,159 --> 00:20:09,822 One is the sort of depth of utility sophistication, right? 328 00:20:09,822 --> 00:20:16,486 So I talked about our sort of real sort of North Star focus on the distribution 329 00:20:16,486 --> 00:20:18,908 system and some of the patented IP we have. 330 00:20:19,809 --> 00:20:26,733 We're just continuing to have more, both pilot and full-scale deployments of that 331 00:20:26,733 --> 00:20:30,235 technology coming up with some of our utility partners. 332 00:20:30,768 --> 00:20:36,169 we, you know, the whole world is now looking at the whole world, the whole 333 00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:40,150 industry is starting to look more of that bi-directional capability. 334 00:20:40,911 --> 00:20:45,292 There, as far as I know, for that, for the residential space, there is effectively 335 00:20:45,292 --> 00:20:50,473 nowhere in the country that is actually compensating drivers at any scale to 336 00:20:50,473 --> 00:20:57,135 export, but there are a number of pilots and grant opportunities, a couple of which 337 00:20:57,135 --> 00:20:57,755 are 338 00:20:57,812 --> 00:21:02,173 still in the running, a few of which that we've already been selected for that will 339 00:21:02,173 --> 00:21:05,214 start to go into deployments closer to mid this year. 340 00:21:05,214 --> 00:21:06,594 So we're excited for that. 341 00:21:06,914 --> 00:21:12,676 The other piece, and really kind of the focus of my specific role is the types of, 342 00:21:13,196 --> 00:21:16,597 again, automotive and charging partners that we're bringing into the fold. 343 00:21:16,597 --> 00:21:24,479 We've been quietly, I'll say, working with a couple of the largest automakers in the 344 00:21:24,479 --> 00:21:24,979 world. 345 00:21:24,979 --> 00:21:25,719 They... 346 00:21:25,896 --> 00:21:29,798 unlike utilities who aren't competitive with one another, the automakers are 347 00:21:30,838 --> 00:21:33,200 pretty conservative in letting us talk about them. 348 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,582 But I believe as soon as tomorrow, we're issuing a press release about some of the 349 00:21:37,582 --> 00:21:40,043 work we've been doing with one of the large automakers. 350 00:21:40,304 --> 00:21:41,504 So that's pretty exciting. 351 00:21:41,504 --> 00:21:45,927 And that's gonna be kind of, I think a continuous drip going forward of some of 352 00:21:45,927 --> 00:21:48,328 the partners that we've been able to bring on board. 353 00:21:48,328 --> 00:21:54,711 And, you know, one thing that I sort of love about WeaveGrid is, well, 354 00:21:55,288 --> 00:21:58,829 the love and hate, the automakers are conservative in letting us announce 355 00:21:58,829 --> 00:22:03,612 things, but once we do, it's because we've already been working with them for six, 356 00:22:03,612 --> 00:22:09,714 12, 18 months or more, and have sort of gained their trust as sort of a thought 357 00:22:09,714 --> 00:22:11,035 partner and an advisor. 358 00:22:11,035 --> 00:22:15,317 So once they're ready to announce our partnership, that means we're already 359 00:22:15,317 --> 00:22:21,019 pretty locked in, and yeah, more great things to come over the coming months. 360 00:22:21,682 --> 00:22:26,103 Yeah, and that does kind of make sense just when you look at also the product 361 00:22:26,103 --> 00:22:29,525 roadmap and kind of product development for a lot of cars, especially electric 362 00:22:29,525 --> 00:22:29,925 vehicles. 363 00:22:29,925 --> 00:22:34,487 And there's really only a few currently available to the market that actually even 364 00:22:34,487 --> 00:22:37,748 offer a kind of a vehicle to grid system. 365 00:22:38,048 --> 00:22:43,851 So I, that kind of makes sense that the interest and as well as the announcements 366 00:22:43,851 --> 00:22:49,253 would probably be waiting on either new cars or once some of these even, uh, early 367 00:22:49,253 --> 00:22:50,653 versions of the 368 00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:55,093 power sharing technology or vehicle to grid technologies become more, uh, should 369 00:22:55,093 --> 00:22:55,834 I say tested? 370 00:22:55,834 --> 00:22:58,436 Uh, and, and even in the public. 371 00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:03,440 So I'm kind of curious though with what are, can you share maybe some of the 372 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:10,405 misperceptions that an auto, like a, an automaker would have about the need for 373 00:23:10,405 --> 00:23:14,709 offering vehicle to grid or any kind of, um, just even general pushback. 374 00:23:14,709 --> 00:23:19,833 You usually see them may be well intended by the automaker, but is a misperception 375 00:23:19,833 --> 00:23:20,554 about the reality. 376 00:23:20,554 --> 00:23:28,878 Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's like probably two themes come to mind. 377 00:23:29,779 --> 00:23:34,582 One is kind of that leap to the bidirectional side, right? 378 00:23:34,582 --> 00:23:39,865 Like it generates a lot of buzz, has some really interesting applications in the 379 00:23:39,865 --> 00:23:40,785 future. 380 00:23:41,846 --> 00:23:46,228 But I think a few automakers have sort of accidentally taken a step too far when 381 00:23:46,228 --> 00:23:47,470 they've come out with announcements like, 382 00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:53,013 bi-directional capable vehicle, you can power your home and sell electricity back 383 00:23:53,013 --> 00:23:57,835 to the grid and, frankly, cut the big bad utility out of the picture and make money. 384 00:23:57,835 --> 00:24:02,038 And you're like, well, first of all, that doesn't really make sense because to get 385 00:24:02,038 --> 00:24:05,320 the electricity in your car, you must have purchased it from the utility. 386 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,541 So it's not like you're really going off grid. 387 00:24:07,541 --> 00:24:15,505 But then also it turns out there are some really, I'd say, onerous, sticky... 388 00:24:16,298 --> 00:24:18,759 requirements for things like electrical interconnection. 389 00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:24,161 So if you are actually going to be sort of a quote unquote power generator, um, 390 00:24:24,161 --> 00:24:29,463 feeding electricity back into the grid, there's some very stringent, um, sort of 391 00:24:29,463 --> 00:24:34,185 electrical engineering standards and permitting standards that you have to, uh, 392 00:24:34,185 --> 00:24:34,745 complete. 393 00:24:34,745 --> 00:24:38,227 And I think some of the automakers kind of discovered, Oh, telling our, you know, 394 00:24:38,227 --> 00:24:42,848 customers that they can just like buy this and do this kind of missed the mark on 395 00:24:42,848 --> 00:24:45,849 actually the, the steps involved. 396 00:24:46,366 --> 00:24:50,207 Um, and so all that is to say, I think, you know, going back to the, the crawl 397 00:24:50,207 --> 00:24:53,509 walk run, I think the, there's been the perception of, okay, like we got to get 398 00:24:53,509 --> 00:24:54,710 into the V2G game. 399 00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:57,991 And we're sort of here to say, like, actually there's value to be generated. 400 00:24:57,991 --> 00:25:02,973 Uh, in what, you know, has been kind of colloquially called V1G, just one 401 00:25:02,973 --> 00:25:07,215 directional management, which is, you know, our, our types of programs on 402 00:25:07,556 --> 00:25:11,937 whether it's behavioral or actively pushing charge schedules, um, 403 00:25:11,986 --> 00:25:16,767 optimized to the given vehicle, you can do a lot and gain a lot of the grid value, 404 00:25:17,467 --> 00:25:21,268 not by exporting power, but just by managing how it's consumed in the first 405 00:25:21,268 --> 00:25:22,128 place. 406 00:25:23,569 --> 00:25:30,451 I think the other related theme or misperception, I think, is some not going 407 00:25:30,451 --> 00:25:36,393 to bad mouth any OEMs here who are all my friends and prospective partners, but a 408 00:25:36,393 --> 00:25:36,834 little bit of... 409 00:25:36,834 --> 00:25:42,256 misconception they might have had about how to interface with the utility grid. 410 00:25:42,256 --> 00:25:47,058 There were pilots in this space as early as 10 years ago, and some automakers did 411 00:25:47,058 --> 00:25:50,100 them directly with utilities, and that's great. 412 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:52,080 That was very innovative for the time. 413 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:59,684 And now that we're in this sort of scale-up era, I don't believe that a given 414 00:25:59,684 --> 00:26:03,705 automaker is going to have sort of the... 415 00:26:04,154 --> 00:26:12,817 the time or the in-house capabilities to run a fully scaled EV program with a given 416 00:26:12,817 --> 00:26:15,298 utility, let alone all 3000 in the country. 417 00:26:15,298 --> 00:26:20,020 So I do think this is like a many to many problem that a platform provider, you 418 00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:23,621 know, I'm biased here because we're the platform provider, but this is where I 419 00:26:23,621 --> 00:26:27,943 think this is why services and software platforms like us exist. 420 00:26:27,943 --> 00:26:32,165 It's like, Hey, oh yeah, do you want to hire 100 people to do this yourself? 421 00:26:32,965 --> 00:26:34,225 Maybe, but 422 00:26:34,338 --> 00:26:37,280 utilities don't want the single automaker solution. 423 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,081 They also want the agnostic platform. 424 00:26:39,081 --> 00:26:43,946 So that's where I think we could sort of bring scale to both sides of the equation. 425 00:26:43,946 --> 00:26:45,487 Well, that, that does make a lot of sense. 426 00:26:45,487 --> 00:26:50,131 It kind of goes back to what we were talking about with just, uh, not even the 427 00:26:50,131 --> 00:26:55,135 pullback from some auto makers in the technologies that they were more bullish 428 00:26:55,135 --> 00:27:00,219 about, but just kind of reality setting in as far as what that will actually take to 429 00:27:00,219 --> 00:27:01,700 execute upon that. 430 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:06,724 And I think the VDG is one of those big ones that really did sound really great in 431 00:27:06,724 --> 00:27:11,948 concept and still obviously longer term we'll get there, but I know there were 432 00:27:11,948 --> 00:27:13,594 just a lot of people that. 433 00:27:13,594 --> 00:27:16,796 went in and bought cars because they knew they could do that, whether they had a 434 00:27:16,796 --> 00:27:21,860 cabin or something else that they wanted to kind of make their house more off grid 435 00:27:22,021 --> 00:27:26,384 only to realize that, yeah, it might be $12,000 or so in panel upgrades because 436 00:27:26,384 --> 00:27:30,568 they have an older home or all these kind of other, uh, well intended, but 437 00:27:30,568 --> 00:27:32,289 unforeseen costs that kind of go into that. 438 00:27:32,289 --> 00:27:35,172 And it, and in a lot of ways it's no different than if you do install like a 439 00:27:35,172 --> 00:27:37,734 diesel generator, you have to do a lot of this stuff anyway, too. 440 00:27:37,734 --> 00:27:42,777 Uh, cause in a way, that's really at least how the grid kind of sees it. 441 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:49,237 is that sort of new area of power kind of coming onto the grid and having how to 442 00:27:49,237 --> 00:27:52,481 manage that and avoid islanding issues that can happen. 443 00:27:52,481 --> 00:27:56,926 So that's really fascinating to hear those misperceptions from the automaker side. 444 00:27:56,926 --> 00:28:00,189 Are there any from the utility side that you can share? 445 00:28:00,416 --> 00:28:06,099 Yeah, I'll say earlier in my role at WeaveGrid, I did interface with the 446 00:28:06,099 --> 00:28:09,881 utilities a lot more and not as much recently as I spend more time with the 447 00:28:09,881 --> 00:28:10,401 automakers. 448 00:28:10,401 --> 00:28:16,845 But I will say one thing, I think, or one, I don't know if it's like a misconception 449 00:28:16,845 --> 00:28:22,628 or just like a lack of awareness maybe that I perceive from the utilities is 450 00:28:23,128 --> 00:28:25,292 there's sort of this underlying belief that... 451 00:28:25,292 --> 00:28:33,618 the data that's being produced by the vehicles is somehow readily available and 452 00:28:33,618 --> 00:28:39,623 should be, I don't know, free and standardized to, you know, the consumption 453 00:28:39,623 --> 00:28:43,286 of whatever purpose the utility might have. 454 00:28:43,506 --> 00:28:48,951 And I think, and I don't think this is something that utilities sort of just 455 00:28:48,951 --> 00:28:53,094 decided or individuals working for utilities kind of decided on their own. 456 00:28:53,094 --> 00:28:53,536 It's that 457 00:28:53,536 --> 00:28:59,618 competitors that I don't know if you used Napster in its two-year existence in your 458 00:28:59,618 --> 00:29:04,880 teenage years like I did, but there's a very interesting analog happening now to 459 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,622 where like, yeah, Napster, you can download all this music and as far as you 460 00:29:08,622 --> 00:29:14,825 can tell, it was what's the difference between bits and bytes packaged in your 461 00:29:14,825 --> 00:29:20,527 MP3 versus the bits and bytes that came off the properly copyrighted CD if they 462 00:29:20,527 --> 00:29:21,727 sound the same? 463 00:29:21,896 --> 00:29:25,496 And so there's companies in our space today that are, you know, effectively 464 00:29:25,496 --> 00:29:31,618 ripping off the data from the EVs and sort of the very Napster, Limewire, whatever 465 00:29:32,538 --> 00:29:37,059 service analogy you might use from the pre-music streaming era. 466 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:41,061 And so utilities have come to believe that like, oh, all this data is readily 467 00:29:41,061 --> 00:29:45,802 available and I could get it for close to free through a middleman that sort of 468 00:29:45,802 --> 00:29:47,682 scrapes this data from the OEMs. 469 00:29:47,803 --> 00:29:49,224 The OEMs are mad. 470 00:29:49,425 --> 00:29:52,118 They're kind of like the... 471 00:29:52,118 --> 00:29:54,538 Yeah. 472 00:29:54,559 --> 00:30:00,561 And, you know, as you may, again, I'll keep to sort of maybe beating the Napster 473 00:30:00,561 --> 00:30:01,441 horse to death here. 474 00:30:01,441 --> 00:30:06,323 But eventually the Recording Industry Association of America, with all their 475 00:30:06,323 --> 00:30:11,306 lobbying and political power, went to, I don't know, it didn't get to the Supreme 476 00:30:11,306 --> 00:30:13,166 Court, but it got pretty high against Napster. 477 00:30:13,166 --> 00:30:14,367 And what are we seeing today? 478 00:30:14,367 --> 00:30:21,030 Well, one of the large international automakers is suing one of those sort of 479 00:30:21,030 --> 00:30:22,531 data scraping providers. 480 00:30:22,531 --> 00:30:29,076 And at the same time, our, some of our utility friends that maybe previously 481 00:30:29,076 --> 00:30:34,541 said, oh, you know, like, we're not really looking for the highest end solution here. 482 00:30:34,541 --> 00:30:38,164 We're looking for just like the minimum viable product that gets me all the 483 00:30:38,164 --> 00:30:39,444 automakers data. 484 00:30:39,925 --> 00:30:45,069 They're kind of getting what they paid for and getting their wrists slapped by 485 00:30:45,069 --> 00:30:45,770 regulators. 486 00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:48,552 Now the public utility commission regulators who are saying like, hey, 487 00:30:48,552 --> 00:30:50,753 either this data is being blocked. 488 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:57,294 where it's of low quality, it's not actually enabling the services that the 489 00:30:57,294 --> 00:31:02,678 utility said you were getting from the vendors you've contracted with. 490 00:31:02,858 --> 00:31:07,642 And so Weaver has been in the behind the scenes here, or not behind the scenes, but 491 00:31:07,642 --> 00:31:11,444 a little bit in the background saying, hey, we told you this was going to be a 492 00:31:11,444 --> 00:31:13,465 slow and steady wins the race. 493 00:31:14,887 --> 00:31:17,990 So again, who's winning the streaming? 494 00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:19,351 music streaming capabilities now. 495 00:31:19,351 --> 00:31:23,413 It's the iTunes and Spotify's of the world who, whether you like them or not, did it 496 00:31:23,413 --> 00:31:27,676 the sort of legally sound and partnered away with all the music labels. 497 00:31:28,097 --> 00:31:30,438 That's kind of what we're doing. 498 00:31:30,438 --> 00:31:36,122 We're not trying to be the sketchy Silicon Valley startup that causes a blackout when 499 00:31:36,122 --> 00:31:40,585 you hack into all the cars where we're doing this with cybersecurity in mind, 500 00:31:40,585 --> 00:31:46,149 sort of legal and technical contracts in mind and trying to do the right thing 501 00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:46,310 here. 502 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:46,553 Hehehehe 503 00:31:46,553 --> 00:31:46,940 Hehehe 504 00:31:46,940 --> 00:31:48,481 I will say I'm not sure. 505 00:31:49,042 --> 00:31:56,668 There's a few standards out there for various components of the overall kind of 506 00:31:56,668 --> 00:32:04,775 end-to-end communications chain, like ISO 15118 about communication of sort of 507 00:32:04,775 --> 00:32:07,778 vehicle and charger data between one another. 508 00:32:07,778 --> 00:32:12,939 I'm not sure how they're gonna shake out and practice because yeah, something I've 509 00:32:12,939 --> 00:32:20,321 kind of seen over my couple of years in this space is there's a few really smart 510 00:32:20,321 --> 00:32:27,843 academic folks who are, again, like I don't mean that in any kind of bad way, I 511 00:32:27,843 --> 00:32:28,824 mean that in a very genuine way. 512 00:32:28,824 --> 00:32:33,385 They're very smart people, but their academic nature leads them to focus in on 513 00:32:33,385 --> 00:32:35,045 like the standards. 514 00:32:35,770 --> 00:32:40,011 and solve so hard for the standards that they don't solve for just getting stuff 515 00:32:40,011 --> 00:32:40,872 done. 516 00:32:40,872 --> 00:32:46,454 And so what ends up happening is, in our case, we work with a lot of custom API 517 00:32:46,454 --> 00:32:51,957 developments between us and our partners, instead of through standards that may or 518 00:32:51,957 --> 00:32:54,878 may not exist yet or recover the full picture. 519 00:32:55,158 --> 00:33:01,661 Three years goes by, the academics publish an update of version 3.7 of the standard. 520 00:33:02,041 --> 00:33:03,941 By the time they've done that, like... 521 00:33:04,146 --> 00:33:08,489 the sort of more practical approach of just getting stuff done via custom APIs 522 00:33:08,489 --> 00:33:14,615 has taken hold and is it good or bad for the industry if there's more custom APIs 523 00:33:14,615 --> 00:33:19,079 versus standards or custom communications protocols versus standards? 524 00:33:19,701 --> 00:33:20,515 We'll see how it shakes 525 00:33:20,548 --> 00:33:24,695 where do you gaps right now in the electric vehicle and the electric vehicle 526 00:33:24,695 --> 00:33:29,844 charging space and are any of those gaps areas that WeaveGrid is really focused on 527 00:33:29,844 --> 00:33:31,140 really filling currently? 528 00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:33,861 Oh man, there's a lot of gaps. 529 00:33:34,902 --> 00:33:40,665 I think as you spoke about on your last episode with John Volcker about sort of 530 00:33:40,665 --> 00:33:46,449 the IONNA charging network, things like that are gonna continue to fill some of 531 00:33:46,449 --> 00:33:52,973 those gaps in both real charging needs and also driver perception. 532 00:33:53,353 --> 00:33:57,280 I think one that has been a little bit outside of our- 533 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:03,382 her view, but we're starting to touch a little bit is the dealership, right? 534 00:34:03,382 --> 00:34:10,505 It's really funny seeing the mix of reactions we get from our utility clients 535 00:34:10,505 --> 00:34:14,086 or automotive partners when we mentioned the need to touch the dealerships. 536 00:34:14,086 --> 00:34:16,207 Some are like, yes, of course, like that's the missing piece. 537 00:34:16,207 --> 00:34:20,969 Some are like, oh, God, like why would you want to get involved in that racket? 538 00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:25,040 But I think as we launch more of these utility programs across the country, it's 539 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,981 only helpful if people actually enroll in them. 540 00:34:27,981 --> 00:34:34,925 And so we have a number of different touch points we use, both through the utility, 541 00:34:34,925 --> 00:34:38,928 through our own driver engagement to marketing and through the OEM's own apps 542 00:34:38,928 --> 00:34:43,470 to engage the drivers to get them to enroll and participate in these programs. 543 00:34:43,951 --> 00:34:50,554 But the education piece, I think, at the dealership is still missing. 544 00:34:50,554 --> 00:34:52,775 And so I think what we're... 545 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:59,564 just starting to scrape at the surface of with a couple of our partners is as we 546 00:34:59,564 --> 00:35:06,549 launch a new utility program in a given geography like let's say in Colorado Can 547 00:35:06,549 --> 00:35:11,892 we Go through their dealer training and education channels to make sure at point 548 00:35:11,892 --> 00:35:13,393 of sale the driver knows. 549 00:35:13,393 --> 00:35:17,516 Hey Congrats, you live in Colorado and guess what? 550 00:35:17,596 --> 00:35:21,499 When you buy this vehicle, it's automatically eligible for this program 551 00:35:21,839 --> 00:35:22,624 called 552 00:35:22,624 --> 00:35:28,406 Charging perks, which is just the name for Excel Energy Colorado, the program we run 553 00:35:28,406 --> 00:35:32,248 with them, and just getting that automatic insight of like, yeah, you could be 554 00:35:32,248 --> 00:35:37,350 charging with excess wind power overnight and making an extra, you know, 50, 100, 555 00:35:37,350 --> 00:35:41,172 150 bucks in utility incentives when you drive off the lot today. 556 00:35:41,172 --> 00:35:42,373 And it's like, cool. 557 00:35:42,373 --> 00:35:47,295 I wasn't sure if that whole renewable energy thing was a gimmick or not, but 558 00:35:47,295 --> 00:35:49,184 sounds like this is a real and I get. 559 00:35:49,184 --> 00:35:51,246 to earn a few bucks by doing it, like great. 560 00:35:51,246 --> 00:35:57,052 Like if your dealer is educated on that, I think we can, it's not the thousands of 561 00:35:57,052 --> 00:36:01,057 dollars off the hood of the car that federal incentives are providing, but it's 562 00:36:01,057 --> 00:36:03,779 the extra nudge and I think it helped engage people. 563 00:36:04,361 --> 00:36:08,724 Yeah, definitely a good long-term investment kind of payback for going to an 564 00:36:08,724 --> 00:36:10,045 electric vehicle. 565 00:36:10,126 --> 00:36:13,268 I guess that's funny you say all that because speaking of another guest we had 566 00:36:13,268 --> 00:36:17,652 previously and being the director of partnerships, I'm sure you're familiar 567 00:36:17,652 --> 00:36:22,096 with kind of what Chargeway is doing in the dealership space around education for 568 00:36:22,096 --> 00:36:25,639 electric vehicles, because that does seem like that might be kind of a natural fit. 569 00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:27,660 Obviously, they also have to be there. 570 00:36:28,552 --> 00:36:29,113 Yep. 571 00:36:29,113 --> 00:36:30,093 Yeah, broadly familiar. 572 00:36:30,093 --> 00:36:34,314 Yeah, there's definitely a few players in this space that I think already touch 573 00:36:34,655 --> 00:36:39,057 dealers more closely than we do and certainly interested in exploring 574 00:36:39,057 --> 00:36:40,797 partnerships on that side. 575 00:36:40,797 --> 00:36:47,700 I met, I did meet someone from NADA, the National Auto Dealers Association back in 576 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:48,901 September or so, an event. 577 00:36:48,901 --> 00:36:54,023 And his sort of attitude and emotion was like, 578 00:36:54,104 --> 00:37:00,589 my God, if you could bring me any and all solutions that help educate the dealers, 579 00:37:00,589 --> 00:37:06,535 help them educate their customers, and also reduce the strain that's happening 580 00:37:06,535 --> 00:37:11,379 between the OEM and the dealer, they're like, we're all ears right now. 581 00:37:11,379 --> 00:37:17,424 There's so much want and need and frustration where everyone's kind of 582 00:37:17,424 --> 00:37:20,587 pointing the finger at one another saying like, you need to do more, but there isn't 583 00:37:20,587 --> 00:37:21,267 really. 584 00:37:21,288 --> 00:37:24,291 sort of good lines of communication or engagement. 585 00:37:24,372 --> 00:37:27,815 So yeah, it seems like there's an untapped need there for sure. 586 00:37:28,401 --> 00:37:33,462 Yeah, that's interesting because I think that's been kind of the unifying theme 587 00:37:33,462 --> 00:37:41,344 we've seen just on this podcast in general is education and in very different formats 588 00:37:41,344 --> 00:37:45,845 is really the biggest missing piece or the area that needs the most work. 589 00:37:45,845 --> 00:37:52,647 And I think especially on kind of the customer facing side, but especially in 590 00:37:52,647 --> 00:37:56,088 the dealership space around kind of how these things tie together, why it's 591 00:37:56,088 --> 00:37:57,008 important. 592 00:37:57,241 --> 00:37:59,202 and what kind of makes the change. 593 00:37:59,202 --> 00:38:02,604 And it's interesting since we're talking about the dealership space and we've been 594 00:38:02,604 --> 00:38:06,527 talking primarily about fully electric vehicles so far on this episode. 595 00:38:06,527 --> 00:38:10,710 I'm just kind of curious if your team has been doing anything around plug-in hybrids 596 00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:14,473 because that seems to be kind of a renewed interest, especially among dealers where 597 00:38:14,473 --> 00:38:19,316 kind of a lower barrier of education might be needed to kind of get someone in or 598 00:38:19,316 --> 00:38:22,798 someone that already has a hybrid they kind of understand the step to. 599 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:25,620 Is that something your team has been seeing a lot of? 600 00:38:26,093 --> 00:38:29,069 interest and kind of a need from the utilities of how to manage those sorts of 601 00:38:29,069 --> 00:38:30,212 vehicles as well. 602 00:38:30,552 --> 00:38:31,692 Yeah, totally. 603 00:38:31,772 --> 00:38:37,014 So our utility programs right now are generally agnostic to P-Hev versus full 604 00:38:37,014 --> 00:38:37,414 BEVs. 605 00:38:37,414 --> 00:38:40,375 You can sign up either way. 606 00:38:40,976 --> 00:38:46,058 And the automotive partners we're working with as well, yeah, range from kind of 607 00:38:46,058 --> 00:38:50,820 like the fully electric to the ones that are more focused on P-Hevs in the interim. 608 00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:54,101 So yeah, it's all part of the solution. 609 00:38:54,602 --> 00:38:59,583 And I'm generally of the personal opinion that it is a good sort of transition. 610 00:38:59,672 --> 00:39:00,572 option. 611 00:39:00,792 --> 00:39:10,079 I think the real sort of trick and or danger is that it is so easy when you have 612 00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:14,282 a PHEV to not charge. 613 00:39:16,263 --> 00:39:19,226 And it's like, so on the one hand, it's kind of like a double-edged sword. 614 00:39:19,226 --> 00:39:21,067 You don't want people to come to this belief. 615 00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:26,190 Like if I forget to charge, I'm out of luck the next morning. 616 00:39:26,571 --> 00:39:27,671 On the other hand... 617 00:39:28,612 --> 00:39:33,357 If they're only ever going to remember to charge on like, you know, a particular day 618 00:39:33,357 --> 00:39:37,901 that they're feeling good about saving the environment or something, and otherwise 619 00:39:37,901 --> 00:39:41,925 they're like, most of my driving is on gasoline miles anyway, like it doesn't 620 00:39:41,925 --> 00:39:44,147 matter, then you sort of miss the point. 621 00:39:44,568 --> 00:39:48,992 But it is all in all, it's this awesome opportunity where it's like, yeah, like 622 00:39:48,992 --> 00:39:51,534 folks, you don't drive more than 30 miles a day. 623 00:39:51,635 --> 00:39:52,915 That's true for... 624 00:39:53,132 --> 00:39:56,654 I can pick a random pool of people and that's true for like 90% of people. 625 00:39:56,815 --> 00:40:01,259 They're going to say, no, I need to go on a road trip between San Francisco and Los 626 00:40:01,259 --> 00:40:04,782 Angeles every day and with like 350 miles of range. 627 00:40:04,782 --> 00:40:14,050 It's like, just plug in, plug off and get your 30 to 50 miles of PHEV range charged 628 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:18,093 again the next day and you'll barely ever drive gasoline miles again. 629 00:40:18,093 --> 00:40:20,952 And then once you get used to it, why not? 630 00:40:20,952 --> 00:40:21,593 make the jump. 631 00:40:21,593 --> 00:40:25,901 And by the time you do make the jump, I assume ranges will have increased as well. 632 00:40:25,901 --> 00:40:32,211 So should be a nice transition option if again, if we educate well along the way. 633 00:40:32,337 --> 00:40:33,257 For sure. 634 00:40:33,377 --> 00:40:36,438 With that, I am that's kind of an interesting thing you bring out with what 635 00:40:36,438 --> 00:40:38,039 your technology does. 636 00:40:38,940 --> 00:40:45,262 Given that it also looks at obviously the charging side of it and then the battery 637 00:40:45,262 --> 00:40:46,463 size. 638 00:40:46,663 --> 00:40:49,288 And what are you seeing as far as 639 00:40:49,288 --> 00:40:52,929 Is there kind of a sweet spot or, and maybe this is more of a question on the 640 00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:57,790 commercial side with what you do around the charging needs, having kind of a, like 641 00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:01,291 once you start getting into like, especially the DC, I don't know how much 642 00:41:01,291 --> 00:41:06,533 weave grades really now doing with DC fast charging versus AC and level two charging, 643 00:41:06,533 --> 00:41:15,295 but it just seems like at one point, I'm just kind of curious, where is the best 644 00:41:15,295 --> 00:41:15,795 return? 645 00:41:15,795 --> 00:41:16,536 Is it like, 646 00:41:16,536 --> 00:41:20,518 batteries need to be so big and then they can do level two charging. 647 00:41:20,518 --> 00:41:24,401 Is that, I mean, is that a question you're getting from automakers about like use 648 00:41:24,401 --> 00:41:29,544 case and where some of that, the data you're seeing, or is that still, uh, kind 649 00:41:29,544 --> 00:41:34,187 of almost dependent on the user and what their kind of budget is when buying an EV 650 00:41:34,187 --> 00:41:34,848 even. 651 00:41:35,715 --> 00:41:42,636 Yeah, I'll say, yeah, no, it's a great line of thinking. 652 00:41:42,636 --> 00:41:49,438 And I wouldn't say I have, where Weaver even necessarily has like a specific view 653 00:41:49,438 --> 00:41:55,000 like today, especially with the first couple waves of adopters, right? 654 00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:01,002 It's like most people adopting today have access to a charger at home. 655 00:42:01,002 --> 00:42:04,471 That's obviously one of the big challenges as soon as we're going to. 656 00:42:04,471 --> 00:42:08,694 go into a new adoption pool of people that don't necessarily have a dedicated 657 00:42:08,694 --> 00:42:09,094 charger. 658 00:42:09,094 --> 00:42:14,639 So up until now, it's been this like, 80% of charging is happening at home. 659 00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:18,622 Let's focus on that wave of consumers. 660 00:42:18,923 --> 00:42:21,705 Now, as we get into this much broader world of, of course, people have like 661 00:42:21,705 --> 00:42:26,869 multifamily homes, apartment buildings, other types of dwellings that may not have 662 00:42:26,869 --> 00:42:32,514 access to a garage or a charger, utilities are very interested. 663 00:42:33,447 --> 00:42:36,469 in solving this because it's an equity question for them, right? 664 00:42:36,469 --> 00:42:41,712 Electric utilities have this mandate to serve every customer and they can't kind 665 00:42:41,712 --> 00:42:46,136 of, sure, for pilots they can do innovative new things with just single 666 00:42:46,136 --> 00:42:49,818 family homes and EV drivers, but at the end of the day they need to make it 667 00:42:49,818 --> 00:42:52,040 accessible to all drivers. 668 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,223 And so this is becoming a very big, your question is becoming a very big question 669 00:42:56,223 --> 00:43:01,186 in the space of how do we make sure this serves everyone and that everyone can sort 670 00:43:01,186 --> 00:43:01,766 of. 671 00:43:02,051 --> 00:43:07,855 help benefit the grid, but also benefit from the grid in relatively equitable 672 00:43:07,855 --> 00:43:08,695 ways. 673 00:43:09,597 --> 00:43:15,201 And I do think for the automakers, some of the innovative work we're starting to do 674 00:43:15,201 --> 00:43:23,128 with them is really building the OEM app, the mobile experience, as a bit of like a 675 00:43:23,128 --> 00:43:27,591 concierge service that gives you the driver, the sort of insights and 676 00:43:27,591 --> 00:43:31,807 recommendations you need and want. 677 00:43:31,807 --> 00:43:33,807 about your charging. 678 00:43:33,927 --> 00:43:39,249 I think right now there's this pain a lot of EV drivers feel of having 10 apps, all 679 00:43:39,249 --> 00:43:42,830 the different charging networks, and maybe it's something from their OEM, it's 680 00:43:42,830 --> 00:43:45,550 something from the utility, it's something from a third party. 681 00:43:45,690 --> 00:43:52,352 I think we pretty strongly believe that OEMs have a right to win there with their 682 00:43:52,352 --> 00:43:55,853 own mobile app, and of course some of those others, the charging networks can be 683 00:43:55,853 --> 00:43:58,314 integrated in there. 684 00:43:58,494 --> 00:44:01,314 And the role that we've heard plays, because we have a lot of data... 685 00:44:01,667 --> 00:44:05,748 and insights on how what the car looks like and how the driver is using it for 686 00:44:05,748 --> 00:44:11,969 charging, we can start to recommend, hey, like you're charging at home, you can 687 00:44:11,969 --> 00:44:15,710 shift to better rates later at night, or hey, you're charging at home, but actually 688 00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:21,812 the public network that you have access to is cheaper in the hour during which you 689 00:44:21,812 --> 00:44:23,492 tend to come home from work. 690 00:44:24,033 --> 00:44:27,274 Maybe you should charge there on your way home, and that's how you'll save money. 691 00:44:27,274 --> 00:44:30,515 But you know, again, that's going to be with trade-offs of... 692 00:44:30,515 --> 00:44:33,441 money versus time versus resources, et cetera. 693 00:44:33,442 --> 00:44:36,931 That's just some of the sort of experimental thinking and discussions 694 00:44:36,931 --> 00:44:38,115 where we're starting to have. 695 00:44:38,115 --> 00:44:38,535 That's great. 696 00:44:38,535 --> 00:44:42,557 And that does seem to be, uh, it's funny you mentioned that because that has always 697 00:44:42,557 --> 00:44:48,621 been my biggest challenge with charging is just, and I feel like I'm a pretty tech 698 00:44:48,621 --> 00:44:49,801 savvy person is around. 699 00:44:49,801 --> 00:44:54,244 Just, you have to have an app for this system and there just seems to be a lack 700 00:44:54,244 --> 00:44:57,666 of foresight around usually where these charges are, there is no cellular 701 00:44:57,666 --> 00:44:59,767 connection or it is very weak. 702 00:45:00,047 --> 00:45:03,710 And so both the timing out and just having to have an app for everything. 703 00:45:03,710 --> 00:45:04,550 I think. 704 00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:05,510 Uh, 705 00:45:06,499 --> 00:45:07,479 I completely agree with you. 706 00:45:07,479 --> 00:45:11,620 Like if you're gonna buy, let's say, a forward lightning, it makes sense for you 707 00:45:11,620 --> 00:45:13,301 to have the forward lightning app. 708 00:45:14,421 --> 00:45:19,202 And if you can put then the data from multiple charging groups into that one app 709 00:45:19,202 --> 00:45:21,663 and kind of augment that where you can, awesome. 710 00:45:21,863 --> 00:45:26,604 It is less likely and definitely a worse experience to have to have the forward 711 00:45:26,604 --> 00:45:31,706 lightning app and then like 10 to 15 other definitely easy charging apps to just get 712 00:45:31,706 --> 00:45:33,286 the system to work to begin with. 713 00:45:33,286 --> 00:45:34,499 So that. 714 00:45:34,499 --> 00:45:35,439 That makes a lot of sense. 715 00:45:35,439 --> 00:45:39,661 And I think it's a big part, once again, of just the challenges around education 716 00:45:39,802 --> 00:45:44,504 and what people are seeing in that space of kind of running into a lot of friction 717 00:45:44,504 --> 00:45:49,007 for not even early adopters, but now as the auto market's growing and you're 718 00:45:49,007 --> 00:45:52,869 starting to see more people get into the space, those challenges for kind of more 719 00:45:52,869 --> 00:45:54,230 mainstream buyers. 720 00:45:54,570 --> 00:45:55,750 Yeah. 721 00:45:55,750 --> 00:46:01,373 And I'll just add that that's another one of the reasons we strive so hard to work 722 00:46:01,793 --> 00:46:07,056 hand in hand with our automotive partners and our charging partners is that we don't 723 00:46:07,056 --> 00:46:10,278 want to be one of that third app or that 17th app. 724 00:46:10,278 --> 00:46:12,499 In fact, we don't have an app at all. 725 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,902 We work directly, they're co branding experiences with the utilities or co 726 00:46:16,902 --> 00:46:19,084 branding or living sort of under the 727 00:46:19,084 --> 00:46:22,806 by working hand in hand with the automaker or the charging companies is how we make 728 00:46:22,806 --> 00:46:27,070 sure there's consistency between what the driver sees in their OEMF versus what they 729 00:46:27,070 --> 00:46:32,454 say see in the head unit of the vehicle and the sort of HMI in the car versus 730 00:46:32,454 --> 00:46:38,438 maybe their utility website and portal with respect to sort of their electric 731 00:46:38,438 --> 00:46:38,739 vehicle. 732 00:46:38,739 --> 00:46:40,099 I think right now there's. 733 00:46:40,816 --> 00:46:43,258 so many touch points you could have. 734 00:46:43,258 --> 00:46:47,561 And when they show you different information or conflicting controls, like 735 00:46:47,561 --> 00:46:51,204 you say, set your charge schedule in one app, but it doesn't port over to, you 736 00:46:51,204 --> 00:46:57,210 know, your OEM app or the interface you have in your vehicle, that's immensely 737 00:46:57,210 --> 00:46:57,950 frustrating. 738 00:46:57,950 --> 00:47:03,195 And so I think that's one thing we're just avoiding from day one by working directly 739 00:47:03,195 --> 00:47:07,238 with the automakers on these integrations and making sure there's a consistent and 740 00:47:07,238 --> 00:47:08,700 delightful experience for the driver. 741 00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:13,384 For sure, and I realize we are kind of coming up on the time limit you have today 742 00:47:13,384 --> 00:47:13,804 with us. 743 00:47:13,804 --> 00:47:18,088 But before you go, I just wanted to kind of, I think, highlight a couple upcoming 744 00:47:18,088 --> 00:47:19,569 events that your team has. 745 00:47:19,569 --> 00:47:24,694 But first, where and how are, if people are listening to this, the best ways to 746 00:47:24,694 --> 00:47:27,195 learn more about WeaveGrid and connect with you. 747 00:47:27,803 --> 00:47:28,123 Sure. 748 00:47:28,123 --> 00:47:35,485 Well, in good news, our lovely new website just launched this morning, starting to 749 00:47:35,485 --> 00:47:39,786 get a little stale after a couple of years since the last refresh. 750 00:47:39,786 --> 00:47:42,547 And so yeah, it's definitely a good place to start. 751 00:47:43,647 --> 00:47:51,169 I think it's the news section, which has a lot of the reports and case studies to see 752 00:47:51,169 --> 00:47:51,710 what we're up to. 753 00:47:51,710 --> 00:47:53,870 And then yeah, there's some... 754 00:47:54,651 --> 00:47:56,171 great events coming up. 755 00:47:56,171 --> 00:48:00,834 It's wonderful because in our space, we're working with distribution utilities, we're 756 00:48:00,834 --> 00:48:02,235 working with automotive. 757 00:48:02,235 --> 00:48:02,695 Guess what? 758 00:48:02,695 --> 00:48:07,318 There's an event called Distribute Tech that is next week in Orlando where a bunch 759 00:48:07,318 --> 00:48:10,499 of our team will be with our utility clients and friends. 760 00:48:10,499 --> 00:48:15,362 And there's an event called Auto Tech that we like going to in early June where a lot 761 00:48:15,362 --> 00:48:20,765 of this discussion of transitioning or augmenting the software-defined vehicles 762 00:48:20,765 --> 00:48:23,326 into sort of grid interactive vehicles happens. 763 00:48:23,943 --> 00:48:27,705 We'll look to play a more leading role this year. 764 00:48:27,726 --> 00:48:35,631 But yeah, our website, our newsletter, if you want access to that, always happy to 765 00:48:36,392 --> 00:48:39,254 spread the gospel of WeaveGrid through our various channels. 766 00:48:39,912 --> 00:48:40,672 Well, I appreciate that. 767 00:48:40,672 --> 00:48:44,534 I know when we were, uh, kind of playing and discussing this episode, it sounds 768 00:48:44,534 --> 00:48:48,156 like you guys will also be at South by Southwest this year. 769 00:48:48,537 --> 00:48:52,279 Um, so it definitely seems like you guys are trying to be out there and get the 770 00:48:52,279 --> 00:48:56,762 word out about weave grading, kind of share what, how, not only how you guys are 771 00:48:56,762 --> 00:49:00,624 helping, but like how serious the need is for kind of filling these gaps when it 772 00:49:00,624 --> 00:49:05,547 comes to electric vehicle charging and especially the data and technology side. 773 00:49:05,547 --> 00:49:07,047 Bridging all these together. 774 00:49:07,843 --> 00:49:08,723 Yeah, absolutely. 775 00:49:08,723 --> 00:49:09,443 We're super pumped. 776 00:49:09,443 --> 00:49:14,865 I think South by Southwest is March 10th, if I remember correctly, our panel there. 777 00:49:14,865 --> 00:49:20,426 So, yeah, really bringing some of the work we do is very behind the scenes. 778 00:49:20,426 --> 00:49:24,587 It's kind of the digital infrastructure for the physical infrastructure, which 779 00:49:24,587 --> 00:49:28,408 most people don't see or care about, which is totally fine. 780 00:49:29,209 --> 00:49:32,910 But yeah, these opportunities like South by Southwest really present a nice 781 00:49:32,910 --> 00:49:35,470 opportunity to bring that a little bit into the. 782 00:49:35,899 --> 00:49:40,582 you know, the public sphere and the public dialogue so people get a sense of, oh, 783 00:49:41,083 --> 00:49:45,026 there's some cool stuff going on behind the scenes to make this revolution a 784 00:49:45,026 --> 00:49:45,906 reality. 785 00:49:46,696 --> 00:49:47,176 For sure. 786 00:49:47,176 --> 00:49:52,199 And I think with that, we'll kind of end today's episode, but I just want to say 787 00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:54,180 thank you so much for coming on today, Yakov. 788 00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:58,443 And it's been really interesting learning more about WeaveGrid and it's great to see 789 00:49:58,443 --> 00:50:00,925 that this technology is out there just because it does. 790 00:50:00,985 --> 00:50:04,727 It's great that you guys are kind of the layer between so many of these different 791 00:50:04,727 --> 00:50:08,930 technologies that everyone wants to like promote each and each of these 792 00:50:08,930 --> 00:50:11,191 technologies do have their strengths in place. 793 00:50:11,344 --> 00:50:14,909 But there's definitely a huge opportunity for really making a lot easier for all of 794 00:50:14,909 --> 00:50:18,235 these to communicate together and to provide that data to make them more 795 00:50:18,235 --> 00:50:19,477 efficient for the end user. 796 00:50:19,477 --> 00:50:21,659 So thank you so much for coming on today. 797 00:50:21,863 --> 00:50:23,071 Of course, thank you for having me. 798 00:50:28,542 --> 00:50:30,482 Thank you for joining us today. 799 00:50:30,482 --> 00:50:34,582 As we wrap up this enlightening conversation with Yakov Berenshteyn the 800 00:50:34,582 --> 00:50:38,472 Director of Partnerships at GridWeave, we hope you're walking away with a renewed 801 00:50:38,472 --> 00:50:43,022 sense of optimism and curiosity about clean transportation and the future of 802 00:50:43,022 --> 00:50:48,042 energy, all of which can build a stronger and more resilient electrical grid. 803 00:50:48,102 --> 00:50:51,582 Yakov's insights into the evolving landscape of renewable energy and how 804 00:50:51,582 --> 00:50:54,430 electric vehicles can better help with this transition. 805 00:50:54,430 --> 00:50:58,900 made possible by the innovative efforts at GridWeave remind us of the impactful 806 00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:03,870 changes happening in our world, driven by technology, partnership, and collective 807 00:51:03,870 --> 00:51:04,910 action. 808 00:51:04,970 --> 00:51:09,840 We want to extend our sincerest thanks to Yakov for joining us today and sharing his 809 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,310 expertise and vision. 810 00:51:11,310 --> 00:51:15,020 It's conversations like these that fuel our passion for exploring the connections 811 00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:17,830 that shape our grid and our future. 812 00:51:17,830 --> 00:51:21,770 Before we sign off, we'd love to keep this conversation going and hearing your 813 00:51:21,770 --> 00:51:22,686 thoughts. 814 00:51:22,686 --> 00:51:26,496 Connect with us on social media, share your takeaways from this episode, and let 815 00:51:26,496 --> 00:51:29,726 us know what topics you're eager to hear more about. 816 00:51:29,726 --> 00:51:33,526 Your engagement is what makes this community so special and impactful. 817 00:51:33,526 --> 00:51:37,266 And remember, if today's episode sparked something in you, consider sharing it with 818 00:51:37,266 --> 00:51:41,046 friends, colleagues, or anyone you believe would appreciate the insights we've 819 00:51:41,046 --> 00:51:42,066 uncovered. 820 00:51:42,366 --> 00:51:46,916 Each share helps us grow and continue to bring you content that inspires, informs, 821 00:51:46,916 --> 00:51:48,126 and connects. 822 00:51:48,286 --> 00:51:51,358 Thank you for tuning in and charging forward with us. 823 00:51:51,358 --> 00:51:55,271 Until next week, this is the Grid Connections Podcast, signing