Spencer Horn 00:00 - 00:24 Welcome everybody to Teams Unleashed. This is the podcast where we explore the art and science of team coaching and how to truly unlock the power of human potential of teams. And I'm your host, Spencer Horn, and I'm the president of Team Coaching International. And today we are going somewhere where, you know, that's new on Teams Unleashed. Spencer Horn 00:24 - 00:47 Today, we are going into the non-profit sector and one of the fastest changing, most under-resourced and frankly most values aligned spaces for team coaching that I can think of. My guest today has been building a bridge into that sector for 15 years. I've got a bio. I'm going to read a little bit about that. Spencer Horn 00:47 - 01:18 Betsy Block is a team coach with over 30 years of experience in private sector government and nonprofit sectors. She has served in leadership roles in both municipal government and regional nonprofit and philanthropy, as well as on the boards of both national and regional nonprofit organizations. And she is active as both a mentor coach and a credentialed coach supervisor in organizations. And that's really cool. Spencer Horn 01:19 - 01:29 So in addition to her working and supporting teams as they navigate management changes, she recently founded Agate Initiative. The Agate Initiative. Did I say that right, Betsy? Betsy Block 01:30 - 01:34 You said it right the first time without the... Branding experts are great when they tell you. Spencer Horn 01:34 - 01:36 Just Agate Initiative. Betsy Block 01:36 - 01:37 There we go. Spencer Horn 01:37 - 02:03 And the focus of that is to really expand access to systemic team coaching in the nonprofit sector, which is the focus of today. And Betsy, I've got to read some of your bona fides because people who are listening, they want to know just how amazing you are. I do. Betsy holds an MPP from the University of California, Berkeley, Goldman School of Public Policy, plus a BA from Boston University. Spencer Horn 02:03 - 02:21 Wow. She holds the Global Individual Accreditation EIA, Senior Practitioner, Individual Team Coach Award, ITCA, Senior Practitioner, and MCC. This is a lot of letters. I mean, I've got like more than the whole alphabet here. Spencer Horn 02:22 - 02:55 Also the Professional Certified Coach PCC and Advanced Credentials in Team Coaching. which is the ACTC from the International Coaching Federation. And she's been featured in Choice Magazine for coaches on supporting inclusivity in meetings, as well as the Authority Magazine, an article navigating conflict, which is, interestingly enough, a big issue in nonprofits and everywhere, and helping teams embrace constructive conflict. So today, we are so happy to have you. Spencer Horn 02:55 - 02:57 Welcome, Betsy, to Teams Unleashed. Betsy Block 02:58 - 03:00 I'm excited to be here, Spencer. Thanks. Spencer Horn 03:00 - 03:12 Thank you for your flexibility. I'm a little discombobulated if you haven't guessed today, because my internet was down. I had to take everything apart. And as a result, I wasn't quite ready. Spencer Horn 03:12 - 03:17 And so my pre-programmed buttons for my videos are all wrong. Betsy Block 03:18 - 03:42 I'm a big believer that there's no such thing as a mistake. And I think there's a message in that, which is, Nonprofits are getting everything thrown at them from every which way, and they have to keep showing up with their absolute best no matter what gets ripped out from under them. In a lot of ways, it's a great metaphor for stepping into a conversation about non-profit. Spencer Horn 03:42 - 04:03 This is just life today, right? In the Bonnie world that we live in, just the crazy chaotic world. Thank you listeners and Betsy for understanding. Before we get into the Agit initiative, I want our listeners to just really understand, you know, the past 15 years you've been coaching non-profit teams. Spencer Horn 04:04 - 04:13 What drew you to that work and especially, you know, the nonprofit sector and what does this work that you do mean to you? Betsy Block 04:14 - 04:45 Yeah, I can point to two really specific points in my journey, which I was working as vice president at United Way of the Bay Area and I was leading a federal grant for capacity building. And the goal was to implement a data system. participants in SparkPoint, which is a program that they run that does a lot of amazing outreach in the community. And we were working on implementation and adoption of this tool. Betsy Block 04:47 - 05:20 And you can predict this, Spencer, but as, you know, somebody who had been really focused on data and implementations and, you know, going back to my private sector experience, The resistance we encountered had nothing to do with technical skill. It had nothing to do with the tool. It had nothing to do with any of the things that were on paper. And it had everything to do with identity, with adopting change, with navigating who we were as a team and how we were seen. Betsy Block 05:20 - 05:47 And I remember somebody saying to me, You know, I'm here because I care about each individual. I'm not here to plug numbers into a data system. And so that really turned on my receptors to adapting to change in the nonprofit sector means honoring who we are and honoring how we shift through change. And nonprofits don't shift like for-profits do. Betsy Block 05:47 - 06:17 And I spend enough time being a fairly senior manager in the for-profit sector before making a big career shift to say, yeah, I've, I've managed all of it. And, and nonprofits by and large are different, um, because we're mission minded. So that, that was one big point in my journey. And I think the second point in the journey that really, really shifted was during my training as a team coach, one of the requirements in my certification program. Betsy Block 06:18 - 06:41 was to define your world work. A lot of us who choose to be team coaches don't do this because we have just a profit motive in mind. We often do it because of human connection, because of human relationship. And so it's natural for team coaches to come through training and define, this is the mark that I might make on the world by learning these skills. Betsy Block 06:42 - 07:06 You don't just get to be selfish about it. And I had come across the work of the Coaching and Philanthropy Project, which was conducted over 15 years ago. The report was published in, I believe, 2010. And many names that you and I both know, kind of luminaries in the coaching world, were involved in this study. Betsy Block 07:06 - 07:39 that made the case for why philanthropy should fund nonprofits. But 15 years ago, there was not an advanced certification in team coaching. 15 years ago, the, the team coaching training programs that we know were just getting founded, there weren't clearly codified team coaching competencies. And so there is a casual mention in the Coaching and Philanthropy study about team coaching as something useful in the nonprofit, nonprofit and social sector. Betsy Block 07:40 - 07:57 And so my world work was, how do we get that addressed? How do we make sure that we update everybody's awareness of where team coaching fits in here? It was a glimmer in that report. But how do we tell that story more? Betsy Block 07:57 - 08:17 So that speaks to, you know, the two things about there's this story to tell about why team coaching matters for nonprofits and what's it going to take to bust open that door for team coaching in the nonprofit sector the way the coaching and philanthropy study did for executive and leadership coaching. Spencer Horn 08:17 - 09:03 You know, I'm really interested in how you have found that team coaching works with the nonprofit sector dynamic with change that you described. It seems like it would fit very, very well because so much of what we're looking at and measuring ties to that mission mindedness that you were talking about. How do you sustain your ability to deliver the mission, to change the way you need to? Well, you have to maintain the identity of what is important to the mission. Spencer Horn 09:03 - 09:38 And so many people get involved in nonprofit work Because you mentioned identity, because they identify with a mission or a cause, or they want to, you know, you talked about doing this work for so many of the satisfactory outcomes that you have in terms of relationship. Getting a paycheck is a wonderful byproduct of doing that well. But many people go into the nonprofit world for the very same reasons. They're not looking for a big paycheck. Spencer Horn 09:38 - 09:40 They're looking for meaning. Betsy Block 09:40 - 10:02 They're looking for... Well, I don't want to dismiss like the right to get a great paycheck in the nonprofit sector because it's meaningful work. You know, I think what you're pointing at is team coaching is so aligned with the values that people in the nonprofit sector often hold. And one of those being community and connection, right? Betsy Block 10:02 - 10:14 There's the concept of civic trusteeship. I will plant a tree I will never sit under. And most people who choose to go into nonprofit work believe in that. And that's so highly aligned. Spencer Horn 10:14 - 10:17 And that's first, usually, right? Betsy Block 10:17 - 10:35 Right. Yeah. And also there's a challenge in it, which is that so often in the nonprofit sector, we see scarcity mindset. And so that sometimes is a big disconnect because team coaching can be is an investment of time and resource. Betsy Block 10:36 - 10:47 And it's a high, to borrow a corporate term, it's a high ROI investment, relatively speaking to trying to invest in people one by one and expecting the organization to change. Spencer Horn 10:49 - 11:02 So this report comes out that says team coaching is a way for nonprofits to be able to deal with some of the challenges that they're facing. tell me what, what came next. Betsy Block 11:02 - 11:09 I mean, so they're like, okay. The coaching and philanthropy report spoke to leadership coaching. Yeah. Spencer Horn 11:09 - 11:09 Okay. Betsy Block 11:09 - 11:43 Spoke to coaching the EDS, the leaders, uh, the, the C suite, if you will, of, of the nonprofit sector. And it created a phenomenal infrastructure of flex leader awards across a really forward thinking group of. um, uh, foundations and has since gone on to really become a leader of developing BIPOC leadership in the sector. Um, the group called the leaders trust that continues to give awards for accessing leadership coaching. Betsy Block 11:44 - 11:51 And that's important and meaningful. And also for me a little incomplete. Spencer Horn 11:53 - 11:53 Why so? Betsy Block 11:56 - 12:22 couple of reasons. I think one is, for me, when we're talking about a lot of the shifts and how we view leadership in the nonprofit sector, nonprofits are way ahead of the for-profit sector in terms of thinking about how we hold power within leadership structures. How do we distribute power within the organization, right? Highly aligned for team coaching. Betsy Block 12:23 - 12:43 And so for me, that's disjointed from then giving coaching to a leader or one leader at a time, right? If we are going to learn to distribute power, we should coach organizations in a way that we share the value and the process of what coaching is. Spencer Horn 12:43 - 13:05 That's really interesting because in the team coaching process, one of the things that we ask the team leader, if you will, is to step back from that role and really become part of the team for that process. And so there's an equalizing effect with that team coaching. Betsy Block 13:06 - 13:40 Yeah. And in a lot of respects, doing leadership coaching and particularly developing strength and BIPOC leaders in the sector of Black, Indigenous, people of color, BIPOC is crucial because we need to develop that leadership. And that really serves the sector to have that modality available and to continue to push on that. And if we want to strengthen things that are organizational, team coaching is an important complement to developing individual leaders, right? Betsy Block 13:40 - 13:46 How do we strengthen the fiber of the organization, adjust the culture of the organization, particularly right now? Spencer Horn 13:47 - 14:10 So here's what I'm hearing. So the senior leadership has been receptive to the idea of coaching and fundamentally very open to sharing that, but that's leading to a problem. The team coaching is the way to help develop that leadership throughout the cohorts of the organization, as I hear you say. But what do you run into? Spencer Horn 14:11 - 14:20 What's the issue? What are the challenges? And why is it not penetrating this sector more if it's so valued and appreciated? Betsy Block 14:22 - 15:12 Money and time. So the first is, and then I think there is Wild West, what the Wild West of coaching can be. So I think the money issue, most of us who do team coaching engagements, whether we're doing it individually with a smaller team or in partnership with a larger team, you know, we're pricing those things $30,000, $40,000, $60,000 or more, right? And that can be profoundly out of reach for a small to midsize nonprofit, a sub $8 million budget nonprofit to say, hey, where's that $60,000 or $80,000 in your budget to bring in some team coaches, particularly when the desire to call in team coaching comes out of an Betsy Block 15:12 - 15:29 emergent situation. You may not have that budgeted. in the moment, because oftentimes it's something suddenly happens or not so suddenly, but again, it's emergent. And so it may not be something that was identified in the budget and it's hard to carve out. Spencer Horn 15:31 - 16:16 Wow, and that's really important because, yeah, they have that need, and they're also very forward-thinking in their budgeting and planning, and I can see that issue. You know, we've got this great alignment between team coaching, perfectly suited for the nonprofit culture, collaborative, values-driven, mission-focused, and yet we're barely going into this sector. I mean, so the biggest barrier is obviously resources. So, I mean, I have my experience and I want to hear what you're doing because I have worked with government, nonprofit, where the same thing happens. Spencer Horn 16:16 - 16:38 For example, just funding is being pulled from many government organizations. I worked with the National Park Service and every year, depending on who the leader is, they have no idea who's going to be funded or what jobs are going to be eliminated. They live in this world of, you know, we can't even plan for next year because we don't know what our budget's going to be. And it's a challenging environment. Betsy Block 16:40 - 16:44 So how do you get the cost down? So that's the first one. Spencer Horn 16:46 - 16:49 Or is there another way? Is it always about cost? Betsy Block 16:50 - 17:26 Well, I think cost is an important but not the only limiting factor. I think the other thing is Typical team coaching engagements ask for a big investment of time with not always, but oftentimes with coaches, a very opaque agenda. One of the MOs of team coaching is that the team holds the agenda. And if the team doesn't understand what team coaching is, that's a huge investment of time for something that they don't yet understand what it is, and it's delivered in a way that's unfamiliar. Betsy Block 17:27 - 17:51 And so one of the things this model does is take a familiar framework and turn it into an on-ramp. So it subverts that concern about what the time is because cohort-based capacity building is really familiar. It's known to be effective. Teams get it. Betsy Block 17:51 - 18:24 They like cross-pollinating their ideas. And so it really opens the door to teams resisting putting the time in to creating some familiarity with what this is about and a willingness to put the time in. Because now they see, now, now it's, we've opened that black box of what this team coaching could be. We've given some, some, greatest hits of what it's like to begin team coaching. Betsy Block 18:24 - 18:32 I just said, we'll just start here with you. We'll meet you where you are. And then that time barrier shrinks. Spencer Horn 18:32 - 18:50 Would you make that real? Describe that, what that looks like in working with, you know, you don't have to name an organization, but one that you've done. Describe what that looks like in setup, just in facilitation and response from the client. What does it look like? Betsy Block 18:51 - 19:19 So the way Agit Initiative is structured, and I need to give full credit to Julia Wilson, who introduced this model. This is her model and gave us full blessing. She sits on our advisory committee to really build this out and tell the story and tweak it, change it a little bit. So Agit Initiative is a cohort-based capacity building model, but team coaching. Betsy Block 19:20 - 19:43 And the way that we hold that is the heart of the program has four topics. It kind of feels like four modules. If you feel like it's training, it feels like four modules, but four topics. And we tell everybody from the beginning, these are the four topics that we're going to cover over the course of these six months. Betsy Block 19:43 - 20:09 And for each topic, we have a group coaching session, right? We have six organizations in the first round of this cohort. All the members of the teams of all six organizations are on that session together. We introduce the material and we do a lot of things in breakout where they are mixed among the teams. Betsy Block 20:09 - 20:19 So when somebody goes into a breakout, they are with all the members of the other teams and not with anybody from their own team. Spencer Horn 20:19 - 20:49 Okay, so hold on, Betsy. So this is the first thing that I'm hearing that is already different from team coaching instead of working with one individual organization. And I'm imputing by that is you're helping spread costs across multiple organizations. And instead of just doing it with one organization where the cost would be higher, we're bringing in now six nonprofits to be part of this module or these cohorts that you're talking about for capacity team building. Spencer Horn 20:50 - 21:08 Love that, because there's so much to be benefited from, kind of peer experience sharing, if you will, right? Okay, sorry to interrupt. I'm interpreting for the lay person. So I'm making sure I understand. Betsy Block 21:09 - 21:30 Yeah, no, you're on it, and it does, it distributes the cost. It's a familiar modality. The teams that we're working with, even though we tell them it's group coaching, because we're ethical, it feels like cohort-based training. And so it feels accessible. Betsy Block 21:30 - 21:58 And in practice, one of our topics is conflict and how to have healthy conflict. there are things you don't want to say to your own team, but then you go into this breakout group and everybody says, Oh my gosh, I have the same thing happening in my organization. And yeah, me too. And people come back from those breakouts and all the taboo of talking about this with normal eyes are now gone. Spencer Horn 21:58 - 21:58 Right. Betsy Block 21:59 - 22:16 They're just gone. And that's probably the, one of the biggest pieces of feedback that we've heard is, you know, we, we've talked about, um, one of the other topics is about resistance to change. Or not even, no, we don't label it as resistance to change. We just talk about navigating change and developing a language around how we talk about change. Betsy Block 22:17 - 22:44 And it's really this beautiful coaching moment where people cross that boundary from feeling guilty about where they stand or judgmental about what's going on at their organization to, oh, this is normal. I can talk, this happens everywhere. I, oh, I can talk about this with my team then. And it just opens this doorway. Betsy Block 22:44 - 22:56 So it's like on the one piece, yeah, it reduces the cost a lot, but the potential that happens when you normalize a lot of this stuff that otherwise feels taboo in team coaching, it's like an accelerant. Spencer Horn 22:58 - 23:09 Yeah. I mean, I, I love that. I just think the, the idea of, um, opening the discussion. That's part of what team coaching does, but it takes a while. Spencer Horn 23:09 - 23:34 Actually, I mean, it's, it's helping the system realize how they're showing up. And, and what we've got here now is we've got multiple mirrors where we've got different people are reflecting back all these different perspectives from different locations and they end up being very similar. And so it just sounds like that's, that's an empowering process. Okay. Betsy Block 23:34 - 23:51 I want to say like for each module or for each topic, we do a group coaching. And then after that, we do team coaching. So the second component of each topic is now we meet with just your team. And then the team coaching actually happens. Spencer Horn 23:53 - 24:06 But you've primed the pump, so to speak, with that. So I have a question that is there a potential downside for them seeing everybody has the same problem? Betsy Block 24:08 - 24:36 Haven't found one yet. I mean, I think there's, there are some inconsistencies and there's a risk of somebody not feeling heard or there's an, we've had some unevenness in the breakouts, but that's going to be the poke under the hood that we're going to do. Cause you know, this is a demonstration project, right? Julia piloted it with smaller or not piloted. Betsy Block 24:36 - 25:03 She's in her third cycle now. with legal aid organizations that are smaller. And she's got her cost scale less than half of what our cost scale is. And we made an important adaptation building on what she's learned, but we're learning here so that we can tell Julia's story and Agit Initiative's story So that we can make it effective. Betsy Block 25:03 - 25:18 We don't mind running into those things. We're evaluating this. You know, my, my past, uh, my past in nonprofits was doing strategic planning and program evaluation. So data is my best friend. Betsy Block 25:18 - 25:21 Right. So, yeah. Spencer Horn 25:22 - 25:45 So, I mean, as I was thinking, I was just thinking maybe one of the challenges would be that, all right, everybody's got this problem, so therefore the mindset is, what can we do about it? But you're saying that doesn't happen. No, it's just, it normalizes the issue, like, okay, we need to fix it. Everybody's got it, and we're not broken. Betsy Block 25:47 - 26:06 We're frustrated. Yeah, we're really thoughtful about how we do it, so we capture the generative side of awareness. Right. Right, without going too deep into the how you fix it, because I think that's a choice that we've made, and it seems to be working out. Betsy Block 26:07 - 26:32 Our goal in the group is to generate awareness. Right. Right? start to turn on those light bulbs so that, you know, if you think about this in alignment with coaching competencies, you know, there's, there's evoking awareness, but that transformation comes when you start to apply that and turn the light inwards. Betsy Block 26:33 - 26:48 So if you think about it in the group context, we're trying to turn on as many lights as possible. And then when we meet with the team and the team coaching session, we're continuing to turn on lights. But we're also getting them to turn that light more deeply inward and together. Spencer Horn 26:49 - 26:58 Well, and that's when they fix the problem. We're not hired to fix the problem. We're there to help them fix their own problem. And that's when the magic, I think, really, really happens. Spencer Horn 26:59 - 27:22 So the cost barrier is, in your experience, how big of a deal is this? And when you say you're aiming for sub 10,000, what does that tell us about where the current pricing sits for most engagements? So you talked about maybe a 60, 50,000, that's over a period of time. I mean, that's initial starting and then ongoing coaching. Spencer Horn 27:23 - 27:35 So when you're talking about sub 10,000, you're talking about the whole program. to get them where they need to go in those cohorts. Is that the entire organization or is it blocks within the organization? Betsy Block 27:36 - 27:54 It's usually going to be the leadership team. And the way that we got to sub 10,000 is, you know, this has been my practice for my own coaching, for the stuff that I do when I'm not working on this initiative, right? That's who I serve. Mostly two to eight million dollars is my sweet spot of organizations. Betsy Block 27:54 - 28:28 And what I noticed and have tested and validated is that below $10,000 is either available within a professional development budget at this size, or it's an easy add-on ask to a funder. It's a no-brainer ask to a funder. When you start getting past that, you start hitting either they have to plan for it far ahead of time, or it's a bigger ask to a funder. But usually when we can keep it that low, That is a, oh, I have that in my budget, is the response that we get. Betsy Block 28:28 - 28:57 And it's also, particularly in the $7,000 to $8,000 range, if you want to do a professional development program for a person, if I want a leader to go through a training program, it's in the $7,000 to $10,000 range. And so the signal of keeping the cost at that point, it's very intentional. It's like, you can send one person to figure something new. or you can send your whole leadership team. Spencer Horn 28:57 - 29:06 Same dollar, bigger impact. Yeah, that's a great message. And how are you seeing the response to that messaging and that pricing? Betsy Block 29:08 - 29:31 Positive. I mean, right now we are giving it away, right? For the first two cohorts, because the third challenge, you asked me what the challenges are, um, for, for nonprofits, like, why isn't it happening on its own is coaching is a little bit of a wild west, right? Everybody I know who's an expert in something is labeling themselves as a little C coach. Betsy Block 29:32 - 29:59 Um, which makes it really fascinating for the big C coaches and really confusing, uh, for nonprofits who are trying to understand what does it mean when I get coaching? Right. So one of the things that we're starting to see is we're getting these more savvy nonprofits who are looking at the content of what's being delivered. They're not so worried about what it's called. Betsy Block 29:59 - 30:10 Not all of our materials use the word coaching front and center. We're talking about team transformation. We're speaking to their challenges. What are they going through? Betsy Block 30:10 - 30:49 Strategic shifts, staff turnover, leadership changes. It's clear, again, we're ethical about making sure they know what the modality, modalities, because there's three modalities here, making sure they know what they are, but they're not what we're leading with because, you know, we just want them to understand what they're stepping into. And so our first two cohorts are coming in to get this for free while we build the evidence base, while we learn from them. And today it turns out is the last official day of accepting applications for our second cohort. Betsy Block 30:51 - 30:53 It's just wild, there are still spots. Spencer Horn 30:53 - 31:02 So if you're looking to get in this and you, is there any geographic limitation in terms of participation? So they could be anywhere in the world? Betsy Block 31:03 - 31:19 Anywhere in the world, there are some time zone considerations. So we have some African organizations that have put in to participate and that becomes like some of the sessions are at 9 p.m. for them, but that's their choice. We've had organizations from India apply. Betsy Block 31:21 - 31:43 One of the organizations we have has some people in Western Europe applying. So it's out there. It's especially well suited to distributed teams. because it is virtual and all of it's virtual, but we have teams that are working really close to each other that are doing this and making it work. Betsy Block 31:44 - 31:45 And we just, we adapt with them. Spencer Horn 31:46 - 31:49 How are you getting the word out? How are they hearing about this? Betsy Block 31:51 - 32:04 I think it would be easier to get the word out about this than it has been, but mostly on LinkedIn. We have some nonprofit partners like Nonprofit Learning Lab, has been a tremendous partner. Resilia has been a partner. Spencer Horn 32:04 - 32:08 I'm in Africa, India. How do I hear about this? Just on LinkedIn? Betsy Block 32:10 - 32:33 They're usually a part of one of our nonprofit supporting organization partners. So there's some network that they're getting information about this from. Some other team coaches who are really excited for us to get our evidence base out, like you, are helping us spread the word about it because you know, this is an attempt to raise the tide for all of us. Spencer Horn 32:34 - 33:09 That's right. So, I mean, part of what we're doing here is, I mean, our audience is meant to be team coaches, but many of them may run into, you know, a client or a referral that they don't want to take or won't, won't discount their fee or don't have the way to do that and might refer that to you, or this model is very different from what they deliver. I have found, for me and my nonprofit clients, is that we usually find a sponsor that is willing to cover. Spencer Horn 33:10 - 33:36 Unfortunately, though, we're not always able to do as much of the ongoing training, so that's a weakness, because to do that, we need to get to that $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 range. you know, we can get partway there. And so there's so many weaknesses with the nonprofit sector, and you are solving a very, very important problem. So I'd love to hear how the first cohort went. Betsy Block 33:37 - 33:54 Well, I'm going to tell you about the first cohort, but promise me we'll get to talk about like, the Team Transformation Intensive is a tool, but I want to make sure we talk about the mission and why this matters. Let's do that first then. Yeah. Um, let's go there. Betsy Block 33:54 - 34:23 So one of the things, and this I think is near and dear to your heart is that we need to tell the story. We need an evidence base. And one of the crucial things in that evidence base is demonstrating change. And so one of the huge partners in this, and Alexis has been a tremendous ally in making sure that we can afford to measure is using the team diagnostic assessment with everybody. Betsy Block 34:24 - 34:29 We're using the team diagnostic assessment because it's been around for decades. Spencer Horn 34:30 - 34:32 20 years. Betsy Block 34:33 - 34:50 Yeah. And it's psychometrically valid. So when it comes to doing the research piece of this, we feel really confident about the changes that we're seeing. Um, we will be partnering with you to do some comparisons, you know, years ago, not even like, I think it was a year ago. Betsy Block 34:51 - 35:21 We did some talk about how, um, constructive interaction, how that willingness to do conflict really is different in nonprofits. And also being able to tell that story with a lot of confidence that this makes a difference and how, and so that is. Meaningful to the nonprofits to have a metric to see the change, but meaningful to our nonprofit mission. This is a fiscally sponsored project through the social good fund. Betsy Block 35:23 - 35:43 It's nonprofit mission is to learn and disseminate the information. So when it comes to other nonprofit coaches, ag an initiative, isn't trying to corner the market on offering this. We're trying to tell the story. and put the tool out there to say, here's a way to do it. Spencer Horn 35:43 - 35:45 Here's a methodology that you can adopt. Betsy Block 35:46 - 36:08 Run with this. Be fruitful and impact the sector in a powerful and meaningful way. And we already had some interest from two coaches in Nairobi. Because the organizations that are coming to us from Kenya, we may not, the US-based coaches that we have, we may not be the best to serve that. Betsy Block 36:08 - 36:18 And I'm not trying to build a company here. We're trying to demonstrate and tell the story and do it with really good evidence. Spencer Horn 36:18 - 36:57 Well, and that evidence is really one of the things that has enabled team coaching to work with major organizations all around the world to, just the system works. And when you apply it everywhere, it's applied, it gets results. And I mean, those of you who are listening and hopefully you're familiar with it, If you're not, I mean, we'd love to start off with measuring the system where they are before we actually start doing any work with them. So how are they showing up in terms of the culture? Spencer Horn 36:58 - 37:13 How are they showing up in terms of their ability to fulfill the mission, to you know, to impact the community. That's the productivity side, if you will. And then the other part of that is how do they sustain that? How do they maintain that? Spencer Horn 37:15 - 37:24 Which is the relationships, which are the values, which are all those things that are so important. You have to have both of those. And so we're measuring where they are. And it really, really helps. Spencer Horn 37:25 - 37:55 I imagine then with the, you know, with limited budget, the concern I would have is typically if you're working with one nonprofit, you would say, there are some areas that are strengths. We won't focus on those as much. We can actually target the time we spend on development and coaching in certain areas of need. But if you're doing that with a group cohort, what do you see is different in terms of the diagnostic results? Spencer Horn 37:55 - 38:04 Do you find patterns, or are now you dealing with all the team performance indicators, if you will? Betsy Block 38:04 - 38:26 I mean, I think in general, when you think about all the different indicators is the data is information, but it's not the project plan. It's not the coaching plan. It's just information. And so oftentimes the leaders come in with a perspective about what they would like to see shift. Betsy Block 38:27 - 39:02 And so then they get the team diagnostic results and they're learning about these topics, which we know always tend to come in. They're just good starter dough topics, this on-ramp to more powerful team coaching. You know, it feels like useful information about what assets can we lean into and what may hold us up, as opposed to more traditional Certified Team Performance Coach approach, which might be, Hey, let's work on this indicator. Sometimes that's what they choose to do. Betsy Block 39:02 - 39:27 Sometimes those were the goals they had at the beginning. Sometimes we do see there was a communication rupture and communication is the performance indicator they really want to work on. But sometimes they're coming in with a perspective of, you know, leadership has changed and we need to find new ways of working together. And so then the indicators are really, they give a menu. Betsy Block 39:28 - 39:32 They give a lot of good information and it's like a menu of, how should we do this? Spencer Horn 39:33 - 39:50 So it's really good. So if a coach is listening to this and they are interested in working more with nonprofits or haven't found a way to do that, how do they start? How do they connect with you? I mean, we'll get all your information. Spencer Horn 39:50 - 39:54 You can do it now or at the end, but how do they, what's the process for them? Betsy Block 39:55 - 40:15 Yeah, I would say first follow us on LinkedIn, because that's the place where we're really going to start to share more and more information. Go to Agate Initiative website, so agateinitiative.org. And there's a place to sign up there for our mailing list. Have some compassion that we're in our early days. Betsy Block 40:15 - 40:47 This is very bootstrapped. It looks slick, but it's very bootstrapped. And it is our goal to build more communication to build that network of people that want to have that conversation to expand that circle. Right now, we are wrapping the first cohort, and we're going to be doing a formal evaluation of that with an outside partner so that we can make sure we get the best possible. Betsy Block 40:47 - 41:07 So we're going to do the evaluation plus the before and after team diagnostic data. And we'll start to tell that story. And similar to what Julia did for me with her model, we're going to tell that story. We have drafted some preliminary white papers with three that are in. Betsy Block 41:07 - 41:30 We can't really tell what's happening until things actually happen, but we have three kind of scoped papers that we plan to share. But we will be sharing, this is what the model looks like and how you do it. And I think about the hot dog stand theory of economics Right. If you, if you are going to put the next hotdog stand on the beach, do you put it next to the other hotdog stand or far away? Betsy Block 41:31 - 41:57 And economics will tell you, you put the hotdog stands together and they both do better. This is, and so I think we want to invite people in to build this for themselves, to connect to us. We believe in abundance. If we begin to say that this is a thing and support each other making these offerings, that's what's going to start to catch the flywheel here. Spencer Horn 41:58 - 42:14 Wow. Well, this is so, it's so exciting. And I mean, I have lots, lots more questions and I know that you've got a lot on your plate and you've got meetings this afternoon. I think we've gone on maybe a little bit longer than we intended. Betsy Block 42:14 - 42:17 You didn't ask me one important thing, which is why is it called Agate Initiative? Spencer Horn 42:19 - 42:22 I have no idea. Why don't you tell me? Betsy Block 42:22 - 42:23 Most people don't know what an agate is. Spencer Horn 42:24 - 42:25 Is it a gem? Betsy Block 42:26 - 42:31 It's a rock and hang on, I've got, I've got it. I didn't have it handy, so I have to reach for it. Spencer Horn 42:32 - 42:33 But it's just not Latin agate. Betsy Block 42:34 - 42:41 It's not, but this is what agate looks like from the outside, right? It just looks like a rock, right? And it's not going to. Spencer Horn 42:42 - 42:43 Oh, this is great. Betsy Block 42:43 - 42:47 Open it up. All the beauty is on the inside. Spencer Horn 42:48 - 42:49 Yes, but with some polishing. Betsy Block 42:50 - 43:11 With some polishing. But the other thing is that, um, I, will not shy away from having an appreciation for all things metaphysical, not all things, but some things. But the metaphysical attribute of agate for for those who believe in it, is that has it has the power to shift the negative into the positive. Spencer Horn 43:13 - 43:15 Wow. How does it do that? Betsy Block 43:16 - 43:19 We just hold it the power of opening it up. Spencer Horn 43:20 - 43:50 You know, and that's a very, very powerful metaphor. And it kind of goes back to what you were talking about earlier, when that leader opens up the experience and the learning and the opportunity to develop their team. That's when that beauty starts to emerge. And it's so rewarding, Betsy, to see the world's starting to shift. Spencer Horn 43:50 - 44:01 I mean, it seems like we're fighting so many forces in the world that want to create negativity. So how do we counterbalance that? Well, with an agate. I love that. Spencer Horn 44:05 - 44:15 What a great metaphor. What am I missing? I had lots more questions. And I love, thank you so much for talking about the team diagnostic that you're using that. Spencer Horn 44:15 - 44:39 We've talked about cultural fit and nonprofits, just different than corporations and how they deal. And your agate approach is just really honoring those differences and working with those cultural differences in a way that I think is absolutely brilliant. What am I missing? Because I created these questions. Spencer Horn 44:40 - 44:58 You've got all this knowledge and I'm just learning. And so I'm like, if I'm a coach and I work in the nonprofit sector, what should I be thinking? Because I'm not that. I mean, that's not my focus. Spencer Horn 44:58 - 45:06 And so I'm not necessarily asking all the great questions. So put yourself in my shoes. You know, if I was that coach, what would I want to know? Betsy Block 45:07 - 45:24 I think you'd want to know, how do I do this? And how do you do this? I think what I did was I looked at what Julia was doing and I thought about how uniquely would I approach this? And I made some adaptations. Betsy Block 45:25 - 45:52 We have elements that she doesn't have. We played and I brought in other coaches and we played to our strengths. I think I would say What ground conditions need to exist for this thing to really take on and how can I support that? And I think that, you know, we're really looking for evangelists around what this is to support and push forward so that we can, you know, bring everybody into it. Betsy Block 45:53 - 46:13 And so I think that if I was a coach looking to get into this, I'd find ways to support those that are going to share this message. How can I help that happen? And then I think being willing to just throw, throw yourself into it. Look at who are your partners that you want to do this with? Betsy Block 46:13 - 46:33 Because this, this is not a solo enterprise. We've got a program manager, Astrid, and I've got my co-coaches, Michelle Davis, who is doing the team-facing work with me. And then we also have Edwin Vega, who is working with the leaders independently so that they have support while this happens. And You know, what would it look like for you? Betsy Block 46:33 - 46:48 Share that with us. We want to share stories, share evidence, and be a place where people can come to find out about it. So I'd be looking to find my own flavor of it and partner with telling that story. Spencer Horn 46:50 - 47:16 And those things are so, so, so important. I'm going to ask a more maybe mercenary question. When you are discounting the way you are, can you afford to maintain doing this type of work if you are doing that? It seems to me that you can because you're actually working with multiple organizations and that helps create some economies of scale. Spencer Horn 47:17 - 47:29 So as a coach, you're able to profit. I know that when we're talking about nonprofits, that may sound mercenary, but we stand. Betsy Block 47:29 - 47:31 It's not mercenary. Spencer Horn 47:31 - 47:43 Right. I'm so glad to hear you say that because a lot of people say, well, you know, I just want to, I just want to make the world a better place. Well, guess what? You can make the world a better place when you can afford to continue to do that. Spencer Horn 47:43 - 47:45 And so that's what I'm suggesting here. Betsy Block 47:46 - 47:58 This cost model honors the coach making a reasonable nonprofit rate. and the nonprofits paying something that's reasonable for them to pay. Spencer Horn 47:58 - 47:59 It is a win-win. Betsy Block 48:00 - 48:23 It's a win-win. So basically the budget of this pans out that we're able to pay coaches reasonable. And it's not equivalent to what a multi-billion dollar corporate pays for team coaching, but it's a good, and I'll just be transparent about it. We peg the coaches at $250 an hour. Betsy Block 48:24 - 48:52 And I know there's coaches that like to make a much higher hourly. I know there are coaches that think more about package pricing, and we're getting there, but it's 250, not per coached hour, 250 per hour. And that includes all of our planning meetings and all of those other things. And so it is a very reasonable income for this type of team coaching that somebody might not otherwise command for what the nonprofit can afford to pay. Spencer Horn 48:53 - 49:05 Well, yes. And here's the and. This is an additional sector to where you're already working. So it's something that you can add to the work that you're doing. Spencer Horn 49:06 - 49:18 And people want to give. People want to serve. They want to have work that has great meaning. And this is a way to really make a huge impact all around the world. Spencer Horn 49:18 - 49:31 There's so many worthy nonprofits that are truly struggling to fight the negative. Let's give them a hand, right? Let's give them a hand. And I love this. Spencer Horn 49:31 - 49:54 Thank you so much for spending time with me. I was so engrossed, I forgot to press some buttons, but I didn't want to press the wrong one anyway. And I want you to, just please for our listeners, how can they reach you? Give us your website, your LinkedIn, and if there's any links that you want to provide, I can put those in the show notes. Spencer Horn 49:54 - 50:02 So if people wanna go to the show notes and get a link to the website or if you've got a download of the process, anything. Betsy Block 50:04 - 50:23 Well, we don't have a lot of resources to share to other coaches yet, it's coming. aggininitiative.org is where to find us on aggininitiative. And then betsyatb3coach.com is my email or my website b3coach.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn. Betsy Block 50:24 - 50:38 You have to have my email to find me on LinkedIn. It's just so it doesn't get too crazy. But you can message me through my website at b3coach.com or ask any question you want for aggininitiative.org. Spencer Horn 50:39 - 50:56 And I heard you say, be patient because you are busy and you are working hard. And so, you know, we'll get back to you as soon as we possibly can. Wonderful. Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us at Teams Unleashed. Spencer Horn 50:56 - 51:17 And we hope that you are out there enjoying the work that you're doing and enjoying the art and science of working with teams. Here is a new and fresh approach to doing this amazing work. And reach out to Betsy and she will absolutely be so excited to help you. Thank you all. Spencer Horn 51:17 - 51:21 And hopefully you'll listen again to us next time.