1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:01,824 Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler 2 00:00:02,385 --> 00:00:04,931 Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast 3 00:00:04,971 --> 00:00:06,013 Speaker 1: called Running the River. 4 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:08,626 Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put 5 00:00:08,666 --> 00:00:10,491 Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender. 6 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,726 Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last 7 00:00:12,946 --> 00:00:14,972 Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home. 8 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,565 Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the 9 00:00:18,645 --> 00:00:20,708 Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the 10 00:00:20,768 --> 00:00:23,272 Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning 11 00:00:23,352 --> 00:00:25,115 Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album. 12 00:00:25,220 --> 00:00:27,316 Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness 13 00:00:27,336 --> 00:00:30,006 Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to 14 00:00:30,588 --> 00:00:34,128 Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy, 15 00:00:34,912 --> 00:00:38,744 Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy 16 00:00:38,904 --> 00:00:42,573 Speaker 1: as we take you up down and across the river. 17 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,828 Speaker 1: This is Running the River. 18 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:49,963 Speaker 2: So, yeah, I would love please tell us about 19 00:00:49,983 --> 00:00:51,366 Speaker 2: the chronology, like what, what got you 20 00:00:51,426 --> 00:00:51,646 Speaker 2: here? 21 00:00:53,069 --> 00:00:53,510 Speaker 2: What led to this? 22 00:00:53,530 --> 00:00:53,810 Speaker 2: What led us? 23 00:00:54,091 --> 00:00:54,411 Speaker 1: here. 24 00:00:55,012 --> 00:00:56,335 Speaker 1: Yeah, where do I start? 25 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:57,422 Speaker 1: Where do I start? 26 00:00:57,863 --> 00:01:00,609 Speaker 1: Because it's all kind of it's all some kind 27 00:01:00,629 --> 00:01:03,121 Speaker 1: of venn diagram that's all over lane and 28 00:01:03,161 --> 00:01:03,822 Speaker 1: intersectional. 29 00:01:04,363 --> 00:01:08,111 Speaker 1: So, yeah, having the idea for a long time, 30 00:01:08,953 --> 00:01:10,284 Speaker 1: you know, sitting out there on the back 31 00:01:10,324 --> 00:01:12,381 Speaker 1: burner at some point, I'll do it, I'll get 32 00:01:12,401 --> 00:01:13,364 Speaker 1: around to it one day. 33 00:01:13,525 --> 00:01:18,183 Speaker 1: I will, I would, I should, I could, and you 34 00:01:18,203 --> 00:01:20,007 Speaker 1: know, got back four or five years. 35 00:01:20,909 --> 00:01:23,441 Speaker 1: It was interesting, it was the beginning of 36 00:01:23,461 --> 00:01:24,422 Speaker 1: an interesting time. 37 00:01:26,303 --> 00:01:30,767 Speaker 1: Basically, I've been with some band members 38 00:01:31,468 --> 00:01:34,270 Speaker 1: over 11 years, 12 years, more than I've 39 00:01:34,311 --> 00:01:36,172 Speaker 1: ever been with any other band member Byron 40 00:01:36,192 --> 00:01:39,395 Speaker 1: Luters, fantastic bassist, great individual, 41 00:01:39,675 --> 00:01:41,577 Speaker 1: and Grant Goffey and drums. 42 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:45,729 Speaker 1: Then I added a couple of new players for 43 00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:46,858 Speaker 1: home as well, and that went well. 44 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:51,650 Speaker 1: But at the same time, after 10 or 14 years 45 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:54,044 Speaker 1: in a row, people want to do other things. 46 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,888 Speaker 1: They have lives and they have their own 47 00:01:57,988 --> 00:02:00,684 Speaker 1: journey and their own path and life leads 48 00:02:00,744 --> 00:02:05,749 Speaker 1: them in different directions and getting to 49 00:02:05,769 --> 00:02:07,627 Speaker 1: those points and including myself, you know, 50 00:02:07,687 --> 00:02:10,139 Speaker 1: and sometimes get into those points are not 51 00:02:10,179 --> 00:02:12,646 Speaker 1: always a straight line hmm, and they're not 52 00:02:12,726 --> 00:02:15,254 Speaker 1: always clean either. 53 00:02:15,514 --> 00:02:19,463 Speaker 1: And it's simple and for me, I have a 54 00:02:19,504 --> 00:02:22,389 Speaker 1: propensity to over complicate in my mind 55 00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:27,137 Speaker 1: and also situations and read and put 56 00:02:27,357 --> 00:02:29,642 Speaker 1: narratives over the top of things and see 57 00:02:29,662 --> 00:02:30,163 Speaker 1: the whole world. 58 00:02:30,203 --> 00:02:31,827 Speaker 1: That way I'm sure, I'm, not the only one. 59 00:02:32,348 --> 00:02:34,841 Speaker 1: So, you know, without going into any of the 60 00:02:34,901 --> 00:02:37,887 Speaker 1: details, because I think all participants 61 00:02:37,908 --> 00:02:40,493 Speaker 1: and all players are all fantastic people, 62 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,009 Speaker 1: including myself, and we all do our best 63 00:02:44,069 --> 00:02:47,539 Speaker 1: and did our best, and we all also added our 64 00:02:47,619 --> 00:02:50,064 Speaker 1: ingredients to the mojo and the gumbo that 65 00:02:50,565 --> 00:02:52,369 Speaker 1: that, uh, turned into. 66 00:02:52,469 --> 00:02:55,154 Speaker 1: You know, those last months of the last 67 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,746 Speaker 1: incarnation of the trio, um, and I found 68 00:02:57,786 --> 00:02:59,591 Speaker 1: that difficult, like I always do. 69 00:02:59,651 --> 00:03:01,483 Speaker 1: I find those things kind of, you know, 70 00:03:02,505 --> 00:03:04,130 Speaker 1: testing, traumatic, challenging. 71 00:03:04,952 --> 00:03:08,925 Speaker 1: I, you know they stay with me a long time 72 00:03:08,945 --> 00:03:10,833 Speaker 1: if you ask my partners, like it's, it's, 73 00:03:11,154 --> 00:03:14,324 Speaker 1: it's a thing, and um, I put together 74 00:03:14,364 --> 00:03:17,070 Speaker 1: another band in record time to finish my 75 00:03:17,791 --> 00:03:19,603 Speaker 1: European and American commitments that I 76 00:03:19,663 --> 00:03:22,376 Speaker 1: did want to finish with, like, some great 77 00:03:22,416 --> 00:03:25,408 Speaker 1: players like Alana Stone on keys and vocals, 78 00:03:25,428 --> 00:03:26,874 Speaker 1: oj Newcomb on keys and vocals, oj newcom on 79 00:03:27,256 --> 00:03:29,684 Speaker 1: bass and keys, terry pie richmond on drums. 80 00:03:29,724 --> 00:03:31,109 Speaker 1: I put this band together in two weeks and 81 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:33,063 Speaker 1: by the end of two months we were headlining 82 00:03:33,103 --> 00:03:35,890 Speaker 1: red rocks again for the fifth time and you 83 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:38,003 Speaker 1: know it was like whoa, it was a lot that 84 00:03:38,063 --> 00:03:39,747 Speaker 1: happened there and like afterwards I was 85 00:03:39,767 --> 00:03:42,453 Speaker 1: just like, and after this, I'm gonna stop 86 00:03:45,327 --> 00:03:47,071 Speaker 1: not make any commitments to any new members, 87 00:03:47,131 --> 00:03:48,946 Speaker 1: new bands, I'm going to go solo for a few 88 00:03:48,986 --> 00:03:51,809 Speaker 1: years and just whoa, whoa. 89 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:57,328 Speaker 1: Relationships seemed complex, difficult, 90 00:03:57,629 --> 00:03:58,151 Speaker 1: scary. 91 00:04:00,201 --> 00:04:01,784 Speaker 1: I was a bit tapped out. 92 00:04:01,884 --> 00:04:05,251 Speaker 1: Being a band leader, an employer, a mate 93 00:04:06,253 --> 00:04:09,007 Speaker 1: living on a submarine, been touring for 25 94 00:04:09,047 --> 00:04:11,885 Speaker 1: years, I was dealing with anxiety 95 00:04:11,905 --> 00:04:12,887 Speaker 1: throughout the whole thing. 96 00:04:13,107 --> 00:04:18,362 Speaker 1: That would come and go pretty intensely and 97 00:04:18,382 --> 00:04:19,165 Speaker 1: I was just a bit cooked. 98 00:04:19,727 --> 00:04:24,345 Speaker 1: I was just cooked and so I said yes, I will 99 00:04:24,906 --> 00:04:29,373 Speaker 1: go off the road and at the in around you 100 00:04:29,413 --> 00:04:30,942 Speaker 1: know, the last few albums I've been working 101 00:04:30,962 --> 00:04:32,606 Speaker 1: with garage band and trying to teach myself 102 00:04:32,646 --> 00:04:34,230 Speaker 1: as an engineer, really gently. 103 00:04:34,411 --> 00:04:36,043 Speaker 1: And then I was like I'm going to get logic. 104 00:04:36,625 --> 00:04:38,530 Speaker 1: So I got logic and I was like, well, the 105 00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:39,382 Speaker 1: first thing I should do is make this 106 00:04:39,462 --> 00:04:39,844 Speaker 1: ambient album. 107 00:04:39,864 --> 00:04:41,473 Speaker 1: It's really simple, you know, just like 108 00:04:41,554 --> 00:04:43,142 Speaker 1: simple stuff, don't try really heavy. 109 00:04:43,905 --> 00:04:46,425 Speaker 1: So I started making stuff and it was cool 110 00:04:46,465 --> 00:04:49,154 Speaker 1: and exciting and I was like, oh, that's 111 00:04:49,214 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: sick, and how about I just put a little 112 00:04:50,961 --> 00:04:52,325 Speaker 1: beat to that little guitar beat to that? 113 00:04:52,345 --> 00:04:53,409 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's cool, like why 114 00:04:53,429 --> 00:04:54,783 Speaker 1: don't I just back that little guitar beat 115 00:04:54,823 --> 00:04:56,167 Speaker 1: up with a little midi kick? 116 00:04:56,207 --> 00:04:57,771 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, why don't you just put a 117 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:58,501 Speaker 1: little synthesizer? 118 00:04:58,801 --> 00:05:00,905 Speaker 1: You know, you know, long story short, you 119 00:05:00,945 --> 00:05:02,647 Speaker 1: know, all of a sudden, I was in another 120 00:05:02,707 --> 00:05:07,735 Speaker 1: studio that I'd built in our spare place on 121 00:05:07,755 --> 00:05:08,075 Speaker 1: the land. 122 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:10,266 Speaker 1: It's like a little small upward studio 123 00:05:10,467 --> 00:05:10,828 Speaker 1: space. 124 00:05:11,269 --> 00:05:13,323 Speaker 1: That was already there and I was in 125 00:05:13,423 --> 00:05:15,545 Speaker 1: full-fledged I'm making an album by myself, 126 00:05:15,666 --> 00:05:16,449 Speaker 1: full production. 127 00:05:16,940 --> 00:05:18,942 Speaker 1: Don't know what the fuck I'm doing Having a 128 00:05:19,102 --> 00:05:20,606 Speaker 1: ball sitting up to four o'clock every 129 00:05:20,647 --> 00:05:23,686 Speaker 1: morning making stuff and excited by the 130 00:05:23,726 --> 00:05:26,001 Speaker 1: process Tracks everywhere, not knowing how 131 00:05:25,905 --> 00:05:26,130 Speaker 1: to crossfade. 132 00:05:26,034 --> 00:05:26,302 Speaker 1: Four o'clock every morning making stuff and 133 00:05:26,206 --> 00:05:26,631 Speaker 1: excited by the process tracks everywhere, 134 00:05:26,536 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: not knowing how to crossfade, just like 135 00:05:28,521 --> 00:05:31,970 Speaker 1: just going for it and having fun and trying 136 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:33,544 Speaker 1: to, like you know, achieve some kevin 137 00:05:33,564 --> 00:05:34,047 Speaker 1: parker thing. 138 00:05:34,067 --> 00:05:35,594 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'll make it out by myself, 139 00:05:35,654 --> 00:05:35,915 Speaker 1: why not? 140 00:05:35,995 --> 00:05:38,748 Speaker 1: Never, never, never engineered. 141 00:05:39,110 --> 00:05:40,315 Speaker 1: Don't know really what the hell I'm doing. 142 00:05:40,336 --> 00:05:43,185 Speaker 1: Crossfading is something and you know, um, 143 00:05:44,388 --> 00:05:44,949 Speaker 1: why not? 144 00:05:45,030 --> 00:05:45,992 Speaker 1: I've only worked with, you know, 145 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:47,845 Speaker 1: professional engineers have dedicated their 146 00:05:47,925 --> 00:05:50,030 Speaker 1: life to the craft of engineering, my whole 147 00:05:50,070 --> 00:05:50,411 Speaker 1: career. 148 00:05:50,852 --> 00:05:51,661 Speaker 1: Why can't I do that? 149 00:05:52,341 --> 00:05:55,424 Speaker 1: And um, you know, um, met myself in it, 150 00:05:55,724 --> 00:06:01,669 Speaker 1: yeah, and but in amongst that, uh, my 151 00:06:01,709 --> 00:06:05,112 Speaker 1: partner's father and my father had both 152 00:06:05,152 --> 00:06:09,216 Speaker 1: been dealing with long-term chronic illness 153 00:06:09,876 --> 00:06:14,987 Speaker 1: that had come to a head and just shortly 154 00:06:15,027 --> 00:06:16,812 Speaker 1: before I got logic and started doing that, 155 00:06:16,832 --> 00:06:18,082 Speaker 1: you know, and something else, kind of 156 00:06:18,483 --> 00:06:21,349 Speaker 1: majorly pivotal and massive precedent in 157 00:06:21,429 --> 00:06:22,772 Speaker 1: our lives is COVID dropped. 158 00:06:22,892 --> 00:06:26,446 Speaker 1: So COVID dropped, I'm at home, we're all at 159 00:06:26,506 --> 00:06:29,764 Speaker 1: home, we're all not working and you know 160 00:06:29,804 --> 00:06:30,988 Speaker 1: I'm recording a bit at home. 161 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,165 Speaker 1: I'll make this ambient album. 162 00:06:33,041 --> 00:06:38,072 Speaker 1: And our dads fall very ill, like a long 163 00:06:38,112 --> 00:06:40,861 Speaker 1: time coming and now we're doing palliative 164 00:06:40,881 --> 00:07:10,225 Speaker 1: care In a short time, within a week, dan 165 00:07:10,245 --> 00:07:12,392 Speaker 1: was gone in lockdown Victoria in the family 166 00:07:12,432 --> 00:07:13,797 Speaker 1: home with all of her five siblings and was 167 00:07:13,817 --> 00:07:14,579 Speaker 1: all oh, not five siblings, sorry, all of 168 00:07:14,599 --> 00:07:17,810 Speaker 1: her four siblings and literally they'd gone 169 00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:20,198 Speaker 1: back to the family unit looking after the 170 00:07:20,239 --> 00:07:21,241 Speaker 1: patriarch of the family. 171 00:07:22,103 --> 00:07:27,634 Speaker 1: One week later, my dad is finally told by a 172 00:07:27,714 --> 00:07:30,581 Speaker 1: nurse you have to have care now and my dad 173 00:07:30,601 --> 00:07:32,228 Speaker 1: had been kind of couch surfing and, like 174 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:34,287 Speaker 1: they call it, like furniture surfing where 175 00:07:36,196 --> 00:07:38,665 Speaker 1: you can't walk properly and you're walking 176 00:07:38,706 --> 00:07:39,990 Speaker 1: to the next object to lean yourself on. 177 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,886 Speaker 1: And I'd been saying, dad, I think it's time 178 00:07:41,946 --> 00:07:43,290 Speaker 1: to come home. 179 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:45,347 Speaker 1: Let me look after you get some care. 180 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,628 Speaker 1: And he finally succumbed to that. 181 00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:50,217 Speaker 1: And so in amongst that Dan's gone now in 182 00:07:50,237 --> 00:07:52,607 Speaker 1: lockdown in a pretty intensive situation 183 00:07:52,647 --> 00:07:54,742 Speaker 1: doing palliative care at home, and within a 184 00:07:54,782 --> 00:07:57,651 Speaker 1: week of that I've emptied our whole room. 185 00:07:59,101 --> 00:08:01,529 Speaker 1: I've put it wherever it would fit somewhere 186 00:08:01,589 --> 00:08:01,750 Speaker 1: else. 187 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:03,401 Speaker 1: I emptied my whole dad's living room into a 188 00:08:03,366 --> 00:08:04,482 Speaker 1: trailer and took it three hours down south 189 00:08:04,447 --> 00:08:05,018 Speaker 1: to Margaret River wherever it would fit 190 00:08:04,982 --> 00:08:05,227 Speaker 1: somewhere else. 191 00:08:05,192 --> 00:08:05,610 Speaker 1: I emptied my whole dad's living room into a 192 00:08:05,575 --> 00:08:07,383 Speaker 1: trailer and took it three hours down south 193 00:08:07,403 --> 00:08:10,345 Speaker 1: to Margaret River and made his living room 194 00:08:10,486 --> 00:08:13,727 Speaker 1: into my bedroom and then gave him care for 195 00:08:13,747 --> 00:08:15,224 Speaker 1: the next month before he passed away. 196 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,988 Speaker 1: Danielle and my father, danielle's dad, 197 00:08:19,610 --> 00:08:22,147 Speaker 1: nicholas, and my father passed within 40 198 00:08:22,207 --> 00:08:26,202 Speaker 1: hours of each other, wild, both in lockdown. 199 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,887 Speaker 1: So that happened and then they passed. 200 00:08:30,007 --> 00:08:35,373 Speaker 1: You know and you know the strain of that, 201 00:08:35,433 --> 00:08:38,477 Speaker 1: the surrealness of that raising two teenage 202 00:08:38,557 --> 00:08:41,541 Speaker 1: kids, 23 years of marriage and being on the 203 00:08:41,661 --> 00:08:44,309 Speaker 1: road Band, kind of breaking up in a way 204 00:08:44,349 --> 00:08:46,375 Speaker 1: that was very confusing and complex. 205 00:08:46,736 --> 00:08:50,914 Speaker 1: You know and you know I'm kind of 206 00:08:51,736 --> 00:08:52,758 Speaker 1: post-funeral. 207 00:08:53,386 --> 00:08:55,747 Speaker 1: We're all a little bit shell-shocked and 208 00:08:55,787 --> 00:08:58,034 Speaker 1: I'm sitting with this music trying to make 209 00:08:58,094 --> 00:08:59,972 Speaker 1: it and it's getting more and more complex 210 00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:02,952 Speaker 1: and the computer's struggling more to 211 00:09:03,052 --> 00:09:04,356 Speaker 1: actually even do the right thing. 212 00:09:04,445 --> 00:09:05,831 Speaker 1: I don't know where sounds are coming from 213 00:09:05,891 --> 00:09:11,261 Speaker 1: anymore and I am just starting to swim in 214 00:09:11,321 --> 00:09:14,491 Speaker 1: my attention deficit and whatever trauma or 215 00:09:14,531 --> 00:09:17,409 Speaker 1: PTSD that lurks around and the anxiety were 216 00:09:17,449 --> 00:09:21,633 Speaker 1: just starting to ping and I couldn't see 217 00:09:21,673 --> 00:09:24,950 Speaker 1: the forest, the trees, and through that 218 00:09:25,050 --> 00:09:33,433 Speaker 1: kind of year and a half, two year I was 219 00:09:33,473 --> 00:09:37,551 Speaker 1: kind of um, oh well, I was very soberly 220 00:09:38,614 --> 00:09:42,789 Speaker 1: humbled and um and kind of brought back to 221 00:09:42,970 --> 00:09:47,731 Speaker 1: fair basics and um, and kind of like not 222 00:09:47,791 --> 00:09:49,756 Speaker 1: knowing if I had it in me anymore to do 223 00:09:49,816 --> 00:09:52,571 Speaker 1: what I do, to do what I wanted to do, even 224 00:09:52,591 --> 00:09:54,035 Speaker 1: though the songs were still coming, even 225 00:09:54,055 --> 00:09:55,871 Speaker 1: though they're like, hey, john, we're here, 226 00:09:55,965 --> 00:09:57,391 Speaker 1: can you bring us to life so people can hear 227 00:09:57,411 --> 00:09:58,093 Speaker 1: them, kind of thing. 228 00:09:58,826 --> 00:10:04,329 Speaker 1: I talked to the songs, yeah, but I was like 229 00:10:04,590 --> 00:10:07,050 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not thinking about like I 230 00:10:07,070 --> 00:10:09,070 Speaker 1: got these songs, like they're not solo 231 00:10:09,090 --> 00:10:11,573 Speaker 1: songs, it's like they're band songs, I hear 232 00:10:11,593 --> 00:10:15,690 Speaker 1: them, not solo songs, it's like they're 233 00:10:15,730 --> 00:10:17,475 Speaker 1: band songs, I hear them, I hear how they 234 00:10:17,495 --> 00:10:19,701 Speaker 1: want to be and I'm like I don't know. 235 00:10:19,721 --> 00:10:20,623 Speaker 1: I've been so stripped bare, cleaned off, 236 00:10:20,643 --> 00:10:21,124 Speaker 1: lost confidence. 237 00:10:21,144 --> 00:10:24,791 Speaker 1: I've been really humbled by all of it. 238 00:10:24,851 --> 00:10:27,676 Speaker 1: You know, like 20 years of interesting and 239 00:10:28,438 --> 00:10:31,689 Speaker 1: amazing and not amazing behavior in a 240 00:10:31,729 --> 00:10:35,357 Speaker 1: marriage raising two amazing kids, going 241 00:10:35,377 --> 00:10:37,227 Speaker 1: through big times in life, two fathers 242 00:10:37,247 --> 00:10:39,795 Speaker 1: dying at the same time, adrenal fatigue, 243 00:10:40,205 --> 00:10:42,412 Speaker 1: but all that kind of stuff just and then 244 00:10:42,452 --> 00:10:43,966 Speaker 1: just like feeling lost in. 245 00:10:43,986 --> 00:10:44,929 Speaker 1: The only thing that I thought. 246 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:47,248 Speaker 1: I kind of like that was giving me some kind 247 00:10:47,268 --> 00:10:50,557 Speaker 1: of you know solace. 248 00:10:50,965 --> 00:10:51,829 Speaker 1: I was just like okay, I don't know if I got 249 00:10:51,849 --> 00:10:52,794 Speaker 1: what it takes to do much of it, of any of 250 00:10:52,854 --> 00:10:53,337 Speaker 1: it, you know, solace. 251 00:10:53,357 --> 00:10:54,181 Speaker 1: I was just like, okay, I don't, I don't 252 00:10:54,201 --> 00:10:55,406 Speaker 1: know if I got what it takes to do much of 253 00:10:55,486 --> 00:10:57,412 Speaker 1: it, of any of it, you know. 254 00:10:58,074 --> 00:11:00,582 Speaker 1: And that was extremely humbling in a real 255 00:11:00,602 --> 00:11:02,307 Speaker 1: like zeroing off calibration. 256 00:11:03,449 --> 00:11:08,359 Speaker 1: That, of course, was necessary, but I was 257 00:11:08,379 --> 00:11:11,505 Speaker 1: like how could I possibly ever lead a band 258 00:11:11,625 --> 00:11:12,809 Speaker 1: again, how could I? 259 00:11:13,652 --> 00:11:14,935 Speaker 1: Do I even have it anymore? 260 00:11:15,135 --> 00:11:17,858 Speaker 1: I'm not as naive and cocksure and abrupt 261 00:11:17,959 --> 00:11:20,481 Speaker 1: and kind of insensitive as I used to be. 262 00:11:20,885 --> 00:11:23,087 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not insensitive, I'm highly 263 00:11:23,127 --> 00:11:25,213 Speaker 1: sensitive in the sense that you need a 264 00:11:25,233 --> 00:11:26,216 Speaker 1: certain kind of naivety. 265 00:11:26,426 --> 00:11:28,111 Speaker 1: The more you know about human relations, 266 00:11:28,151 --> 00:11:29,335 Speaker 1: the more nuanced you have to get. 267 00:11:29,405 --> 00:11:32,592 Speaker 1: And I didn't think I had the skills to deal 268 00:11:32,612 --> 00:11:34,497 Speaker 1: with the complexity with how sensitive I'm 269 00:11:34,537 --> 00:11:36,341 Speaker 1: and how many stations seem to be on and 270 00:11:36,381 --> 00:11:38,466 Speaker 1: blaring at once with my attention span. 271 00:11:38,486 --> 00:11:42,659 Speaker 1: So I was like, how could I get, possibly 272 00:11:42,739 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: get back? 273 00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:44,605 Speaker 1: And I said, well, let's just work backwards 274 00:11:44,605 --> 00:11:45,888 Speaker 1: a little bit, because these songs are not 275 00:11:45,908 --> 00:11:46,370 Speaker 1: leaving you. 276 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:47,312 Speaker 1: Let's work backwards. 277 00:11:47,433 --> 00:11:51,131 Speaker 1: How simply can we make the path back? 278 00:11:51,232 --> 00:11:53,418 Speaker 1: yeah and the whole idea of smart. 279 00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:55,645 Speaker 1: You know that smart acronym of you know I 280 00:11:55,665 --> 00:11:57,290 Speaker 1: don't know what it's like set a goal, 281 00:11:57,471 --> 00:11:59,538 Speaker 1: measurable, achievable rt. 282 00:11:59,598 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: I don't know where they are. 283 00:12:00,661 --> 00:12:02,409 Speaker 1: It was like what's the simplest thing I can 284 00:12:02,469 --> 00:12:02,650 Speaker 1: do? 285 00:12:02,951 --> 00:12:05,056 Speaker 1: I'm not listening to the things I've been 286 00:12:05,096 --> 00:12:06,246 Speaker 1: working on for last two years. 287 00:12:06,306 --> 00:12:08,230 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't listen to it. 288 00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:10,715 Speaker 1: It's making me anxious, fucking whoa. 289 00:12:11,497 --> 00:12:13,487 Speaker 1: Um, I'll start with the ambient album. 290 00:12:14,049 --> 00:12:15,506 Speaker 1: Beautiful, I can maybe just do that. 291 00:12:15,766 --> 00:12:17,851 Speaker 1: And then I was like in amongst that. 292 00:12:17,931 --> 00:12:19,896 Speaker 1: Now we're post covid and all that. 293 00:12:19,996 --> 00:12:23,574 Speaker 1: I'd worked with james ireland uh, for just 294 00:12:23,835 --> 00:12:24,317 Speaker 1: two days. 295 00:12:24,457 --> 00:12:26,002 Speaker 1: It was like a meeting just to see if we 296 00:12:26,123 --> 00:12:27,326 Speaker 1: might do something together. 297 00:12:28,167 --> 00:12:32,394 Speaker 1: Uh, for songs and, um, it was a really easy 298 00:12:32,675 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: of days not being on the tools and being 299 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:36,287 Speaker 1: just on the instruments. 300 00:12:36,307 --> 00:12:38,354 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's right, engineers 301 00:12:38,414 --> 00:12:41,325 Speaker 1: are sick and he was also a producer. 302 00:12:41,946 --> 00:12:44,973 Speaker 1: And so I was like in amongst this gumbo of 303 00:12:45,073 --> 00:12:47,017 Speaker 1: thought, something started to crystallize 304 00:12:47,037 --> 00:12:50,431 Speaker 1: and it was like, okay, there's this band 305 00:12:50,491 --> 00:12:51,473 Speaker 1: that I want to have one day. 306 00:12:51,894 --> 00:12:52,756 Speaker 1: I'm compelled to have it. 307 00:12:52,776 --> 00:12:55,972 Speaker 1: I want to have it, I need to have it, but I 308 00:12:56,012 --> 00:12:56,654 Speaker 1: can't go there now. 309 00:12:57,785 --> 00:12:59,049 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. 310 00:12:59,410 --> 00:13:00,252 Speaker 1: Make this ambient. 311 00:13:00,292 --> 00:13:00,994 Speaker 1: You need to heal. 312 00:13:01,215 --> 00:13:01,897 Speaker 1: You actually need to heal. 313 00:13:01,965 --> 00:13:03,171 Speaker 1: You're fucking fried, bro. 314 00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:06,388 Speaker 1: Now's the time to make this music, not for 315 00:13:06,548 --> 00:13:08,194 Speaker 1: necessarily I mean, yes, of course to share 316 00:13:08,745 --> 00:13:11,392 Speaker 1: but first for yourself, as a tool of coming 317 00:13:11,432 --> 00:13:13,597 Speaker 1: back to how simple the process can be of 318 00:13:13,657 --> 00:13:15,930 Speaker 1: recording, how simple music can be without 319 00:13:16,010 --> 00:13:18,317 Speaker 1: all the complexities and overlays. 320 00:13:18,586 --> 00:13:22,254 Speaker 1: And once that happened, the next thing 321 00:13:22,274 --> 00:13:23,416 Speaker 1: happened is well, I want to make this 322 00:13:23,477 --> 00:13:24,218 Speaker 1: instrumental album. 323 00:13:24,686 --> 00:13:26,013 Speaker 1: The instrumental album is something that's 324 00:13:26,595 --> 00:13:28,123 Speaker 1: very much connected to the intros of the 325 00:13:28,163 --> 00:13:30,131 Speaker 1: songs and to some of the journeys of the 326 00:13:30,171 --> 00:13:30,994 Speaker 1: music of the trio. 327 00:13:31,205 --> 00:13:34,655 Speaker 1: And I was like so it was like Heal Begin 328 00:13:34,695 --> 00:13:34,936 Speaker 1: Again. 329 00:13:35,185 --> 00:13:37,052 Speaker 1: First album was an instrumental album that 330 00:13:37,192 --> 00:13:38,135 Speaker 1: I used to play on the street. 331 00:13:38,285 --> 00:13:40,333 Speaker 1: I was like Heal, begin Again, yeah, start 332 00:13:40,373 --> 00:13:40,554 Speaker 1: again. 333 00:13:41,366 --> 00:13:42,210 Speaker 1: So instrumental album. 334 00:13:42,385 --> 00:13:44,452 Speaker 1: Then I'll do this solo kind of guitar beat 335 00:13:44,532 --> 00:13:46,949 Speaker 1: album that I wanted to do, and then I'll be 336 00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:49,265 Speaker 1: through all that, slowly, baby steps, I'll 337 00:13:49,285 --> 00:13:51,531 Speaker 1: be able to have a band again and what I saw 338 00:13:51,611 --> 00:13:58,776 Speaker 1: was four seasons and the way my mind works. 339 00:13:58,937 --> 00:14:01,062 Speaker 1: It needs story and narrative. 340 00:14:01,162 --> 00:14:04,489 Speaker 1: You can tell me, dada, until the cows come 341 00:14:04,549 --> 00:14:07,013 Speaker 1: home and I'll be like, yeah, I understand 342 00:14:07,074 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: you and I, yes, I understand that. 343 00:14:11,146 --> 00:14:14,193 Speaker 1: But to feel something, to really integrate 344 00:14:14,394 --> 00:14:19,193 Speaker 1: it as a concept and an idea and I need it 345 00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:20,316 Speaker 1: has to be conceptual. 346 00:14:20,485 --> 00:14:21,731 Speaker 1: I have to have a story. 347 00:14:22,065 --> 00:14:23,630 Speaker 1: You want to teach me something about math 348 00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:25,576 Speaker 1: or anything, or scales? 349 00:14:25,705 --> 00:14:27,431 Speaker 1: Give me a story, give me a shape, give me a 350 00:14:27,471 --> 00:14:29,027 Speaker 1: color, give me a feeling, give me a story, 351 00:14:29,067 --> 00:14:31,073 Speaker 1: give me a history and I'll build something 352 00:14:31,113 --> 00:14:31,434 Speaker 1: around it. 353 00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:32,216 Speaker 1: That's what I need. 354 00:14:32,345 --> 00:14:35,506 Speaker 1: That's how my version of ADHD works and 355 00:14:35,546 --> 00:14:35,968 Speaker 1: that's how I. 356 00:14:36,745 --> 00:14:39,011 Speaker 1: And the minute I had those four seasons, I 357 00:14:39,031 --> 00:14:41,097 Speaker 1: was like, oh, clear. 358 00:14:41,746 --> 00:14:43,734 Speaker 1: And I also had this moment of clarity. 359 00:14:43,805 --> 00:14:45,329 Speaker 1: I don't know if I had a good amount of 360 00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:47,235 Speaker 1: serotonin or dopamine in my body at the 361 00:14:47,255 --> 00:14:47,496 Speaker 1: time. 362 00:14:48,565 --> 00:14:50,128 Speaker 1: Having worked with James, I was like I'm 363 00:14:50,148 --> 00:14:52,733 Speaker 1: going to call two people right now and see 364 00:14:52,773 --> 00:14:56,138 Speaker 1: if they're free to do the ambient album and 365 00:14:56,158 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: the instrumental album. 366 00:14:57,306 --> 00:14:59,793 Speaker 1: And on the same day, in the same hour, I 367 00:14:59,913 --> 00:15:02,829 Speaker 1: texted Dave Mann, a fantastic musician, 368 00:15:03,631 --> 00:15:06,237 Speaker 1: engineer, producer, songwriter, performer, 369 00:15:07,268 --> 00:15:08,152 Speaker 1: who lives in Market River. 370 00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:11,394 Speaker 1: He's like anybody who knows Dave Mann knows 371 00:15:11,494 --> 00:15:12,477 Speaker 1: he's actually the man. 372 00:15:13,006 --> 00:15:14,732 Speaker 1: He can literally do anything. 373 00:15:14,772 --> 00:15:15,875 Speaker 2: He is the renaissance man. 374 00:15:16,025 --> 00:15:18,831 Speaker 1: And he does it well and he's a humble 375 00:15:18,852 --> 00:15:19,273 Speaker 1: gentleman. 376 00:15:19,465 --> 00:15:22,291 Speaker 2: Forging steel tools. 377 00:15:22,432 --> 00:15:23,434 Speaker 1: Making house trucks. 378 00:15:23,735 --> 00:15:24,075 Speaker 2: Making. 379 00:15:24,095 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: Sailing across, sailing, yeah, just you 380 00:15:26,601 --> 00:15:26,805 Speaker 1: name it. 381 00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:28,031 Speaker 1: Playing guitar like a. 382 00:15:28,806 --> 00:15:31,329 Speaker 2: Singing like a Singing writing songs, 383 00:15:31,449 --> 00:15:34,517 Speaker 2: engineering albums, Raising kids Just the 384 00:15:34,557 --> 00:15:34,858 Speaker 2: whole lot. 385 00:15:34,878 --> 00:15:35,980 Speaker 2: He's just the full package. 386 00:15:36,085 --> 00:15:37,351 Speaker 1: He's just like stop it okay. 387 00:15:37,432 --> 00:15:38,115 Speaker 2: I know Chill. 388 00:15:38,305 --> 00:15:39,048 Speaker 1: Really like-. 389 00:15:39,745 --> 00:15:40,871 Speaker 2: And he's a mountain of a man. 390 00:15:41,648 --> 00:15:42,492 Speaker 2: He's six foot five. 391 00:15:42,605 --> 00:15:44,393 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a lot. 392 00:15:44,705 --> 00:15:46,412 Speaker 1: I mean it's surprising anybody likes him. 393 00:15:48,506 --> 00:15:50,653 Speaker 2: Dave, if you're listening to this, just 394 00:15:50,713 --> 00:15:51,335 Speaker 2: ignore that bit. 395 00:15:51,505 --> 00:15:54,786 Speaker 2: If you're listening to this, just ignore 396 00:15:54,806 --> 00:15:55,206 Speaker 2: that bit. 397 00:15:55,226 --> 00:15:56,906 Speaker 1: So I sent him a thing going I'm free on 398 00:15:56,926 --> 00:15:57,386 Speaker 1: these dates. 399 00:15:57,727 --> 00:15:58,967 Speaker 1: I just had that clarity. 400 00:15:58,987 --> 00:16:00,207 Speaker 1: You know that you have those clarity 401 00:16:00,227 --> 00:16:00,767 Speaker 1: Especially for me. 402 00:16:00,787 --> 00:16:02,008 Speaker 1: It's like I get these moments of clarity. 403 00:16:02,348 --> 00:16:04,548 Speaker 1: I can see the whole matrix for a second. 404 00:16:04,628 --> 00:16:06,169 Speaker 1: It's opened up and I'm like I'm going to 405 00:16:06,209 --> 00:16:06,569 Speaker 1: pounce. 406 00:16:07,069 --> 00:16:08,029 Speaker 1: And it opened up my diary. 407 00:16:08,049 --> 00:16:09,465 Speaker 1: I'm like I'm free on these dates, I'm just 408 00:16:09,485 --> 00:16:09,986 Speaker 1: going to try them. 409 00:16:13,214 --> 00:16:14,818 Speaker 1: And I'm going to call somebody else, called 410 00:16:15,239 --> 00:16:16,692 Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, katie Tunstall, 411 00:16:16,732 --> 00:16:18,498 Speaker 1: who's a fantastic musician, engineer, 412 00:16:18,719 --> 00:16:22,138 Speaker 1: songwriter, just badass woman, boss woman, 413 00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:26,239 Speaker 1: and I knew I had this gig in Miami on 414 00:16:26,259 --> 00:16:29,950 Speaker 1: Michael Frenti's Soul Shine Cruise solo and 415 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:31,616 Speaker 1: I was like I could maybe go to New Mexico 416 00:16:31,636 --> 00:16:32,860 Speaker 1: where she lives and record this thing. 417 00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:34,876 Speaker 1: So I said to them both at the same time you 418 00:16:34,896 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: guys free, are you guys free? 419 00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:45,073 Speaker 1: And they both wrote me back within an hour, 420 00:16:45,093 --> 00:16:46,619 Speaker 1: going yeah and I was like okay, it's on, 421 00:16:46,659 --> 00:16:47,602 Speaker 1: and you know that's kind of asking you, 422 00:16:47,642 --> 00:16:48,586 Speaker 1: that was, that was the, that was the 423 00:16:48,606 --> 00:16:49,589 Speaker 1: journey to get to that moment I had to go 424 00:16:49,609 --> 00:16:53,976 Speaker 1: through so much breakdown and and literally 425 00:16:54,077 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, and and literally be 20 songs 426 00:16:56,660 --> 00:16:59,845 Speaker 1: deep into multi, multi-tracked songs and 427 00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:03,218 Speaker 1: walk away from it all, yeah and and then go. 428 00:17:03,258 --> 00:17:04,781 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I need to actually work with 429 00:17:04,802 --> 00:17:07,097 Speaker 1: somebody else yeah yeah, damn it. 430 00:17:07,238 --> 00:17:08,825 Speaker 1: Oh, I really wanted to do the kevin parker 431 00:17:08,845 --> 00:17:10,250 Speaker 1: thing because I just wanted to stay the 432 00:17:10,311 --> 00:17:11,493 Speaker 1: fuck away from people. 433 00:17:11,513 --> 00:17:14,180 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were just too hard like complex, 434 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:15,703 Speaker 1: and I knew I was as well. 435 00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:17,971 Speaker 1: It was this and it's like no, no, now we're 436 00:17:17,991 --> 00:17:18,613 Speaker 1: starting to heal. 437 00:17:19,054 --> 00:17:21,599 Speaker 2: Work with people, yeah, work with safe, 438 00:17:21,959 --> 00:17:26,871 Speaker 2: kind, powerful, humble badasses and and and 439 00:17:26,891 --> 00:17:50,865 Speaker 2: dave man was yeah first port of call can I 440 00:17:50,885 --> 00:17:53,847 Speaker 2: just say as well, you at some point in this 441 00:17:53,907 --> 00:17:58,189 Speaker 2: 20 track huge um, I actually came in for a 442 00:17:58,229 --> 00:18:00,072 Speaker 2: couple of, was it maybe two days three? 443 00:18:00,112 --> 00:18:00,674 Speaker 1: days, yeah, you did. 444 00:18:00,714 --> 00:18:02,037 Speaker 2: We did some stuff in the world. 445 00:18:02,078 --> 00:18:04,211 Speaker 2: You were like, you were like the, the 446 00:18:04,271 --> 00:18:07,058 Speaker 2: wrestler on the ropes going reaching out to 447 00:18:07,118 --> 00:18:09,283 Speaker 2: tag someone into the into the ring, you 448 00:18:09,323 --> 00:18:10,654 Speaker 2: know, and I was just like on the side going 449 00:18:10,674 --> 00:18:11,938 Speaker 2: come, man, just tag me and tag me. 450 00:18:12,459 --> 00:18:14,531 Speaker 2: So I flew over, yeah, yeah and um. 451 00:18:15,291 --> 00:18:17,113 Speaker 2: You know, from my perspective, like the 452 00:18:17,153 --> 00:18:19,394 Speaker 2: work you've done there, like it's epic, 453 00:18:20,175 --> 00:18:23,798 Speaker 2: it's big, it's huge and I can't wait till 454 00:18:23,818 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: we get there to this cycle. 455 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:33,105 Speaker 2: This season has passed beautiful journey of 456 00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:34,627 Speaker 2: like rebuilding yourself. 457 00:18:35,207 --> 00:18:38,169 Speaker 2: To get to that level of complexity is is 458 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:40,174 Speaker 2: absolutely understandable because then you 459 00:18:40,214 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 2: can serve it without it feeling like it's a 460 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:42,781 Speaker 2: burden to you. 461 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:43,411 Speaker 2: It's just a. 462 00:18:43,973 --> 00:18:45,717 Speaker 1: You're gonna have the tools to deliver it 463 00:18:46,018 --> 00:18:48,042 Speaker 1: to and to do it the service that you know 464 00:18:48,731 --> 00:18:50,094 Speaker 1: yeah, the things that need to be 465 00:18:50,135 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: prioritized first and I was jumping the gun, 466 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,372 Speaker 1: yeah I was jumping the gun and the music 467 00:18:54,412 --> 00:18:58,582 Speaker 1: was like okay, it's big music you can, but 468 00:18:58,862 --> 00:19:00,554 Speaker 1: let's see how you go yeah and it's like the 469 00:19:00,594 --> 00:19:01,637 Speaker 1: music always knows. 470 00:19:01,677 --> 00:19:03,101 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like, yeah, you have a 471 00:19:03,141 --> 00:19:03,382 Speaker 1: shot. 472 00:19:03,771 --> 00:19:05,074 Speaker 1: And I learned amazing things along the way 473 00:19:05,114 --> 00:19:08,101 Speaker 1: and I think, failure is an amazing, amazing 474 00:19:08,201 --> 00:19:11,977 Speaker 1: gift and tool and to meet yourself and also, 475 00:19:12,377 --> 00:19:14,542 Speaker 1: you know, I like to think I'm pretty 476 00:19:14,583 --> 00:19:16,567 Speaker 1: empathetic and like pretty, you know, 477 00:19:16,848 --> 00:19:19,473 Speaker 1: self-conscious and aware, but it all it did 478 00:19:19,513 --> 00:19:22,277 Speaker 1: definitely gave me, you know, just even 479 00:19:22,317 --> 00:19:26,805 Speaker 1: another level, um, on just the appreciation 480 00:19:26,845 --> 00:19:28,032 Speaker 1: of the skill of engineers. 481 00:19:28,052 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: You know, um, you know and I knew that, but 482 00:19:32,581 --> 00:19:34,691 Speaker 1: once again I got to feel that yeah, that's 483 00:19:34,751 --> 00:19:35,473 Speaker 1: a very different lesson. 484 00:19:35,493 --> 00:19:36,456 Speaker 2: Feel it in to really feel it. 485 00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:37,940 Speaker 2: It's a different lesson, isn't it? 486 00:19:38,181 --> 00:19:39,393 Speaker 1: Yeah and just going okay. 487 00:19:39,433 --> 00:19:41,170 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some things I'm better at and 488 00:19:41,191 --> 00:19:42,155 Speaker 1: some things I'm not good at. 489 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:44,699 Speaker 1: And now we're talking about energy. 490 00:19:45,051 --> 00:19:47,099 Speaker 1: Where am I going to be the most efficient? 491 00:19:48,531 --> 00:19:50,499 Speaker 1: Where am I going to be the most potent? 492 00:20:02,810 --> 00:20:03,552 Speaker 1: Yes, learn that thing, but is it? 493 00:20:03,572 --> 00:20:04,434 Speaker 2: it's not gonna best serve you for now. 494 00:20:04,454 --> 00:20:05,237 Speaker 1: Maybe that's maybe that self-produced, 495 00:20:05,257 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: self-recorded things down the track. 496 00:20:06,139 --> 00:20:07,543 Speaker 1: This is a journey and you're still reeling, 497 00:20:07,683 --> 00:20:07,764 Speaker 1: bro. 498 00:20:07,784 --> 00:20:08,967 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're still like trying to work out 499 00:20:08,987 --> 00:20:09,789 Speaker 1: real simple, primordial shit, yeah. 500 00:20:09,829 --> 00:20:13,377 Speaker 1: So, yeah, go back yeah you know, go back to, 501 00:20:13,557 --> 00:20:15,962 Speaker 1: to the drawing board of your life 502 00:20:16,002 --> 00:20:18,433 Speaker 1: schematics, yeah, and it's a circle, coming 503 00:20:18,453 --> 00:20:20,459 Speaker 1: all the way around with a whole new 504 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,081 Speaker 1: understanding. 505 00:20:23,096 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: It's not like you're starting from scratch. 506 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:26,616 Speaker 2: You're coming, but it's like the context is 507 00:20:26,636 --> 00:20:27,157 Speaker 2: that you are. 508 00:20:27,658 --> 00:20:30,185 Speaker 2: It's a renewal, you know, like the 509 00:20:30,305 --> 00:20:31,127 Speaker 2: beginning is the end. 510 00:20:31,388 --> 00:20:32,250 Speaker 2: The end is the beginning. 511 00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: It's that beautiful circle coming around, 512 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:36,613 Speaker 2: but this time you've got all this new 513 00:20:36,673 --> 00:20:39,218 Speaker 2: understanding, this new capacity to begin 514 00:20:39,258 --> 00:20:41,463 Speaker 2: again and be humble again yeah, and that'd 515 00:20:41,483 --> 00:20:42,064 Speaker 2: be a lot of death. 516 00:20:42,671 --> 00:20:44,094 Speaker 2: I think that'd be a lot of death, the death 517 00:20:44,134 --> 00:20:44,835 Speaker 2: of a band? 518 00:20:45,677 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: uh, death of confidence? 519 00:20:47,841 --> 00:20:49,404 Speaker 1: Death of family members? 520 00:20:49,570 --> 00:20:50,371 Speaker 1: Yeah, uh. 521 00:20:50,872 --> 00:20:53,176 Speaker 1: Death of art recordings? 522 00:20:53,797 --> 00:20:55,820 Speaker 1: Uh, a death within the marriage, I think, 523 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,444 Speaker 1: even, to be honest to say, a death of old 524 00:20:58,504 --> 00:21:02,058 Speaker 1: ways in order to forge new ways. 525 00:21:03,070 --> 00:21:07,401 Speaker 1: It was a real this, whatever you wanna call 526 00:21:07,461 --> 00:21:14,191 Speaker 1: it, lifetime, the universe, it was like it 527 00:21:14,231 --> 00:21:16,017 Speaker 1: was kind of nudging me in the directions. 528 00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:20,139 Speaker 1: And then and I am a, at times, obstinate, 529 00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:26,423 Speaker 1: stubborn and like stupidly, not 530 00:21:26,463 --> 00:21:30,038 Speaker 1: stupendously, but stupidly loyal to an idea, 531 00:21:30,158 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: a cause, to people, to myself, to a concept, 532 00:21:35,651 --> 00:21:38,938 Speaker 1: and I just stuck with something that I knew 533 00:21:39,099 --> 00:21:40,883 Speaker 1: had to change and that was wanting to 534 00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:43,676 Speaker 1: change, and all the different organelles of 535 00:21:43,736 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: it was wanting to change, not just me and 536 00:21:46,222 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: finally it just said poop and just kind of 537 00:21:49,979 --> 00:21:51,583 Speaker 1: pushed me out of the nest and yeah, it's a 538 00:21:51,684 --> 00:21:54,732 Speaker 1: rough landing and you know, I just want to 539 00:21:55,073 --> 00:21:57,741 Speaker 1: also, just, you know, give it that sense of 540 00:21:59,025 --> 00:22:02,353 Speaker 1: like, the experience you've just explained 541 00:22:02,433 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 1: and like what you've been through is such, 542 00:22:04,456 --> 00:22:09,230 Speaker 1: a um, a broader experience for so many 543 00:22:09,271 --> 00:22:11,335 Speaker 1: people about the kind of the gift of what 544 00:22:12,257 --> 00:22:13,420 Speaker 1: covid kind of gave us. 545 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:15,813 Speaker 2: As well as it was, it was a death for so 546 00:22:15,853 --> 00:22:18,753 Speaker 2: many people of old ways and having to deal 547 00:22:18,793 --> 00:22:21,338 Speaker 2: with our own shadows and take 548 00:22:21,358 --> 00:22:23,983 Speaker 2: responsibility for stuff, and we all did it 549 00:22:24,044 --> 00:22:24,792 Speaker 2: in different ways. 550 00:22:24,832 --> 00:22:27,661 Speaker 2: You know, um, people changed jobs, people 551 00:22:27,761 --> 00:22:30,630 Speaker 2: left partners, people moved houses, people, 552 00:22:31,231 --> 00:22:31,572 Speaker 2: you know it. 553 00:22:31,612 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: Just it forced us to deal with our shit and, 554 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,388 Speaker 2: in your case, like it's you you, as as any 555 00:22:38,428 --> 00:22:40,653 Speaker 2: true artist does, you you turn to your art 556 00:22:40,853 --> 00:22:44,321 Speaker 2: as as the place to, to synthesize all that 557 00:22:44,361 --> 00:22:45,423 Speaker 2: you were working through. 558 00:22:46,351 --> 00:22:50,939 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly and to discern and almost 559 00:22:51,019 --> 00:22:51,921 Speaker 1: decode it all. 560 00:22:52,722 --> 00:22:54,085 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's great unveiling. 561 00:22:54,125 --> 00:22:56,214 Speaker 1: That's what I called covid yeah it was just 562 00:22:56,274 --> 00:22:57,997 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff we knew was behind 563 00:22:58,017 --> 00:23:00,281 Speaker 1: the curtain yeah, and something just was 564 00:23:00,321 --> 00:23:00,962 Speaker 1: like yo. 565 00:23:01,724 --> 00:23:04,313 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's gonna happen with this shit? 566 00:23:04,954 --> 00:23:07,179 Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, and it all came out it wasn't 567 00:23:07,219 --> 00:23:09,931 Speaker 1: just covid at blm, you know, just like yeah 568 00:23:10,091 --> 00:23:12,877 Speaker 1: the facts just everything just was came to 569 00:23:12,917 --> 00:23:16,163 Speaker 1: the fore and rested with social media and I 570 00:23:16,204 --> 00:23:17,976 Speaker 1: think, all in all, there was a great 571 00:23:18,056 --> 00:23:19,019 Speaker 1: unveiling that happened. 572 00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:22,932 Speaker 1: I can't speak for everybody else, but what 573 00:23:22,972 --> 00:23:26,621 Speaker 1: I noticed and I do have my own take on 574 00:23:26,661 --> 00:23:29,121 Speaker 1: pattern recognition is that it seemed to 575 00:23:29,141 --> 00:23:30,371 Speaker 1: happen for a lot of other people and it 576 00:23:30,391 --> 00:23:31,376 Speaker 1: definitely happened for myself. 577 00:23:32,293 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: It was a great unveiling, a great zeroing 578 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:36,714 Speaker 1: off, a calibration, whether we all liked it 579 00:23:36,754 --> 00:23:39,131 Speaker 1: or not, or whether I liked it or not, and 580 00:23:40,112 --> 00:23:44,295 Speaker 1: that set the bed for it to begin the 581 00:23:44,355 --> 00:23:45,956 Speaker 1: process in the hard times. 582 00:23:47,878 --> 00:23:55,324 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for my people, all my family. 583 00:24:01,131 --> 00:24:02,838 Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the world.