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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

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And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.

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Please let others know by sharing,
commenting, and following so that

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you can join in on everything
that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.

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ca.

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Today, I'm joined by an adventure,
not just any adventure, but

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someone who National Geographic
has named adventure of the year.

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He's walked across Iceland.

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He's walked across India.

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He rode across the Atlantic unsupported
for 45 days from Spain to Barbados.

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And he spent four years
cycling across the world.

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He is the author of numerous books,
including his most recent, Local.

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He is extremely passionate about
encouraging people to search closer than

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ever before to their homes for nature and
wilderness to embark on micro adventures.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Alistair Humphreys.

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Alastair Humphreys: Thank
you very much for having me.

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Travis Bader: You have.

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Quite the list of
accolades behind your name.

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Your books that you've
written are inspiring.

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They get people outside and they
do so in a really accessible

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way, but I really, really want
to talk about micro adventures.

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I want to talk about your new book,
but I think I would be absolutely

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remiss if we didn't touch on a little
bit about you and kind of what got

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you into these grand adventures and
what's been pushing you into the term

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that you coined micro adventures.

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So if we're going to look back a little
bit, what's your earliest memory of

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an adventure that you've been on?

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Alastair Humphreys: Oh, um, I grew
up in, um, a lovely part of Northern

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England called the Yorkshire Dales.

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It's very beautiful little
country sides of landscape.

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And I was quite lucky that the school
I went to, say when I was about nine

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or ten years old, they forced the
entire school, I'm sure this would

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be highly illegal these days, but
they forced the whole school to go

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and walk this, um, 26 mile mountain
challenge, the three peaks of Yorkshire.

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So that's what.

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About 40 miles walking around
the countryside over some hills.

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Uh, it was, and you had to do it
in under 12 hours to get a t shirt.

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And I was so proud of that t shirt.

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So that was my, that was my
first adventure, but you know,

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everyone in my school was doing it.

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So it wasn't that I was some
sort of crazy adventure guy.

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It was just that I was lucky to grow
up in the countryside and my school

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made us do stuff like that, I guess.

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So, um, yeah, that's my first
real adventure, I think.

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Travis Bader: Yorkshire,
beautiful countryside, beautiful

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puddings, uh, what, James Cook.

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He's from your, he's one of your
countrymen there from Yorkshire, isn't he?

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Grand Explorer.

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Yep.

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Amy Johnson, Amy Johnson.

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You know about her?

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Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

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Good, good Yorkshire knowledge.

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There

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Travis Bader: you go.

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I, I liked it over there is, uh, just a
beautiful area that, uh, what did she do?

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She flew from England to Australia.

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She was the first person to

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Alastair Humphreys: do that.

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Yeah,

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Travis Bader: yeah, that's
a pretty adventurous.

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So I, you know, what, what
is it that drives you?

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What was it that drove you to go out
on these massive grand expeditions

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that took tons of planning and arguably
put your life in, in harm's way.

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What, what was it that was inside you
that was sparking that, that desire?

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Alastair Humphreys: So I, I didn't really
do anything particularly adventurous as a

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kid, um, beyond school camping type trips.

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So it was only really when I
got to university that a couple

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of things happened to me.

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Um, one, we have like the, the
reserve army in Britain that's, um,

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basically a weekend army, essentially.

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And I joined that, uh, mostly because
the beer was really cheap and you got

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paid money to run around the hills.

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And I had, I had no interest in
the guns at all, but I really

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enjoyed running around the hills.

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And that was the first time in my life
that I'd got quite a a buzz out of

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being pushed really hard and setting
high standards and working hard to

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try and meet those high standards.

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So I got interested in that sort of
physical side of challenging myself

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in a way that I'd never done before.

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And then simultaneously to that at
university, when I should have been

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studying, uh, I was mostly reading
or when I wasn't drinking beer,

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I was mostly reading books about
travel and adventure and explorers.

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And I loved all of these things.

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And those two worlds collided
really, uh, getting me just thinking.

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Wow, I really want to set myself a
huge, physical, difficult challenge,

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um, and I really want to go see
the world, all these amazing places

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that I've been reading about.

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There must be exciting places
beyond the shores of Britain.

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Let's go have a look at it.

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Um, but Like a lot of young people,
I didn't have a huge amount of

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money, uh, but I had plenty of time.

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And so I decided to go
around the world by bicycle.

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It was a, it's cheap, it's simple, it's
painful, it's slow, it's difficult.

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It's a brilliant way to see wild
places and to talk and communicate with

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communities and families and individuals
who meet along the way, and still

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after all the adventuring I've done,
I haven't yet found a better way to

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travel than to put a tent on the back of
a bicycle and see how far you can get.

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So yeah, it was a combination of
curiosity and wanting to travel, like

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a lot of young people, plus a drive
to try to prove something to myself in

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some sort of tough, challenging way.

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Travis Bader: No kidding.

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Well, when I look at it, so when you say
I can't think of a better way than to

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throw a tent on the back of a bicycle
and travel around, I got to imagine,

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uh, meeting people all over the world,
different communities, uh, learning about

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cultures that are completely foreign to
your own and just opening yourself up

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to an environment that, and situations
and, and adventures that you might

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not normally see will just sit around.

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Sitting on the couch at home for sure.

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But that's a very different adventure than
getting into a rowboat with a couple of

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your mates and rowing across the Atlantic.

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So one, I would think there's
a very, um, social side to it.

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And the other one's going to be correct
me if I'm wrong, but dogged determination

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and your social network is now going to be
those few people on that rowboat with you.

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Does that sound about
an accurate description?

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Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, very much so.

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And so after I'd, after I'd gone around
the world, I started to start seeking out

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different kinds of adventurous experience.

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So hot places, cold places, desert,
dry places, oceans, wet places.

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So trying to get a variety of,
uh, environmental experiences, but

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also traveling in different ways.

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So by foot or, uh, on skis,
pulling a sled or on a rowing boat.

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So getting different kinds of adventures.

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And then.

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The third thing is also trying to mix
up doing journeys by yourself, um,

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versus doing them with other people.

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There are pros and cons to traveling
alone and traveling with other people.

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And yeah, traveling around the world was
very much, I was on my own, but it was

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a shared social experience of every day.

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I was.

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buying bread from the village
shop or asking someone for

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directions or, um, and so on.

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So it was always a conversational
type experience, um, interspersed

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with areas of remote wilderness.

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Rowing the Atlantic was just me and
three other guys and nothing for

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3, 000 miles, um, of empty ocean.

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So that really became an exercise,
as you say, in dogged determination,

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but also it's very much a.

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human interaction of how
do we work together to get

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the best out of each other?

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And frankly, to not
want to kill each other.

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And how do I behave so that these
guys don't want to kill me as well.

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So, um, I've really enjoyed, I mean,
traveling by yourself is fantastic for

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your self self development, your self
confidence for knowing yourself, the

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good sides and the bad sides, but you
can also become a bit of a selfish.

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Idiot by just doing that.

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So traveling with other people is
a really good way of remembering

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to be kind, to offer kindness
and, and to accept kindness.

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If someone said to me on the rowing boat,
Al, you're looking a bit tired today.

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My natural macho instinct
is to say, I'm not tired.

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Look how tough I am.

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I'm going to row until I drop, which
is just dumb and far more sensible.

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But I personally find much
harder is to say, thank you.

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Thank you for your kindness.

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I am struggling right now and
I'll accept your help and I'll pay

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that back to you at some point.

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So it's very, they're very
different experiences traveling

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alone and with other people.

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And, but I think both of them teach you
a lot about yourself and about the world.

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Travis Bader: Yeah, that was, that
was a, uh, a lesson I learned.

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I wish I could say I learned it early
in life, but I didn't, the, uh, the

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whole macho, I'm tough, I can move on.

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I can keep going really.

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If you've got a large objective
that you're trying to meet.

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Being able to pace yourself properly and
just give it your all every single day,

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as opposed to 110 percent or 120 percent
and burning out in a couple of days.

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Yeah, that was, um, I remember I was,
uh, in hiking some hills over here

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with a good friend of mine, he's a
ex British army and his approach.

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I'm looking at this guy, like he did
SAS selection a couple of times, and

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he was about a day away from getting
badged when he got, uh, injured.

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On, uh, on one of his attempts there,
but, uh, he's like, okay, yeah, no, let's,

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let's get some food and that's okay.

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Let's have a tea.

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Okay.

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Let's make sure we got our jackets on.

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I'm like, what is this guy?

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I thought we're supposed to be tough here.

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Right.

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But we were comfortable and where
everybody else was, uh, knackered on

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the side, uh, fallen out, we just kept
going and going, and we just had a.

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Pace that we can maintain day after day.

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And so that, that little piece of, of
a life lesson, life lesson, I learned

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very late in life, but what a crucial
one, if you really want to achieve more.

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Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

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And any idiots can be
uncomfortable, right?

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Travis Bader: Mm hmm.

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Yeah, totally.

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So what advice would you give to somebody
who, let's say, and I know I really

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want to talk about micro adventures,
but I, I got to, I got to get some of

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the bigger adventures out of the way.

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If somebody wanted to embark on
one of these two very different

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types of adventures, let's say the,
uh, rowing across the Atlantic.

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I, I think I read somewhere that
you guys didn't bicker there.

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There wasn't any fights, which I find
unfathomable spending 45 days with other

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people on a boat in these conditions.

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But, uh, what advice would you
give to someone who wanted to

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embark on an adventure like that?

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Alastair Humphreys: Well, probably
my, my semi serious advice would

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be don't go do the ocean row.

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Um, it's, uh, It's an extremely expensive
way to have an adventure, extremely

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logistically complicated and a bit of
a hassle and you, and you could spend

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the money much more, um, much better I
think by just getting on your bicycle

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and pedaling away from your front door
or just putting your backpack on and

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walking out of your front door and just
setting off Forrest Gump type style.

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I think, I think it's.

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Especially for younger people to
consider how much money you have

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available and how you can best
spread that into a long adventure.

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So I didn't have very much money
for cycling around the world, but

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I just made it last a really long
time by living an extremely basic

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life essentially eating just.

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instant noodles and banana
sandwiches for four years.

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Um, which was, you know, sometimes
it's tough, but, or I could have

00:12:27.945 --> 00:12:31.605
gone to Vegas for a week and,
uh, drunk champagne for a week.

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So it's a kind of a choice of, of how
to get the best bang for your buck.

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So I personally would hugely encourage
you to go for the, the simple cheap.

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Adventure.

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And another aspect is that it
then is all in your own hands.

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Trying to row an ocean, unless you're
really rich, you're going to have to

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go out and find sponsors and companies.

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And then you're starting to put your
hopes and dreams in other people's hands.

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And it takes ages and you
might fail and all sorts.

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And so I'm a huge believer
in just, just trying to take

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responsibility for your own.

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Save up as much money as you can work
out how much time you have in your life

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and then don't complain because someone
else has got more time and money.

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Just appreciate what you've got and do
the best that you can with what you've

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got and do it as soon as you can because
life will only get more complicated and

00:13:20.819 --> 00:13:22.880
uh, with more commitments and more tight.

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So do it, do it as soon as you can.

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Travis Bader: What is it that drives
this passion for adventure that you have?

00:13:33.115 --> 00:13:35.395
Alastair Humphreys: I think there
are various things driving my

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adventurous side and they have
evolved a lot over the 20 years or

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so I've been doing big adventures.

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I mean, I guess that happens
just, you just get old, don't you?

00:13:46.095 --> 00:13:48.415
So your motivations for life change.

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But so, so.

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If I just talk you quickly through
them, I've, I've mentioned the

00:13:53.109 --> 00:13:56.880
early ones, which is a curiosity
to see the world and a desire to

00:13:56.900 --> 00:13:58.630
push myself and challenge myself.

00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:04.040
And then that sort of moved on
towards a, uh, a curiosity about.

00:14:04.575 --> 00:14:06.565
learning about different
places in the world.

00:14:07.065 --> 00:14:12.715
Um, and then adventures for me
moved on more to about the, the

00:14:12.715 --> 00:14:15.835
joy that I got from encouraging
other people to go have adventures.

00:14:15.845 --> 00:14:19.714
So I do my own adventures and then
through those try and encourage people

00:14:19.715 --> 00:14:21.704
to have adventures of their own.

00:14:21.755 --> 00:14:25.815
And then more recently, the more
recent phases is that adventure

00:14:25.815 --> 00:14:27.615
for me is a way to spend time.

00:14:27.900 --> 00:14:32.850
out in nature, which is good for my, uh,
body and my soul, physical and mental

00:14:32.860 --> 00:14:37.010
health, but also is a way to start getting
me really connected and caring about

00:14:37.210 --> 00:14:40.960
nature and the environment and hopefully
trying to help do something to, to fix

00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:42.859
the mess that we've got ourselves in.

00:14:42.860 --> 00:14:46.774
So yeah, my motivations for adventure
have evolved a lot over the years.

00:14:48.225 --> 00:14:50.535
Travis Bader: You know, when I
was, uh, I think it was grade

00:14:50.545 --> 00:14:53.285
three, I was diagnosed with ADHD.

00:14:53.545 --> 00:14:55.805
My family had no idea what to do with me.

00:14:55.845 --> 00:15:00.895
They were going to ship me off to a,
uh, uh, wherever someplace I would take

00:15:00.895 --> 00:15:02.815
because I was a bit too much of a handful.

00:15:02.815 --> 00:15:06.664
And then the doctor says, well, maybe
you should get this kid checked out.

00:15:06.665 --> 00:15:10.925
Got diagnosed professionally with ADHD,
was put on the highest dosage of Ritalin

00:15:10.935 --> 00:15:11.999
in the province on an experimental basis.

00:15:12.130 --> 00:15:16.350
Apparently I was told anyways on an
experimental run to see how this worked.

00:15:16.370 --> 00:15:18.160
I absolutely hated it.

00:15:18.750 --> 00:15:25.900
But one thing that I found was
being outdoors, being in nature had

00:15:25.900 --> 00:15:28.960
a, just a profound effect on me.

00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:31.789
And it's something that I
encourage obviously everybody else.

00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:37.240
And I see now they have, um, they talk
about, I think it's like green therapy or.

00:15:37.965 --> 00:15:41.935
I forget what the term is that
they use, but, um, ways to cope

00:15:41.935 --> 00:15:44.085
with ADHD without medication.

00:15:44.615 --> 00:15:47.165
And a big part of that
is just being outside.

00:15:47.165 --> 00:15:51.655
So that's always been a huge part of
me and, and my soul and what, what

00:15:52.104 --> 00:15:57.629
kind of drives me more out of necessity
than anything else for my own sanity.

00:15:58.290 --> 00:16:07.060
Um, would you say that that kind of,
uh, speaks to you as well, when you grew

00:16:07.060 --> 00:16:12.290
up, were you one of, did you follow a
similar path as myself that you needed the

00:16:12.290 --> 00:16:15.560
outdoors or did you discover the outdoors
and, and what it could do for you?

00:16:17.099 --> 00:16:20.640
Alastair Humphreys: No, I don't
think I, uh, particularly needed.

00:16:20.849 --> 00:16:22.189
the outdoors as a kid.

00:16:22.189 --> 00:16:26.160
I enjoyed it when I was doing it, but
I generally quite happily spend as many

00:16:26.170 --> 00:16:30.359
hours watching TV as I could get away with
before my mum threw me out of the house.

00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.550
So, so no, so, so that
aspect didn't apply to me.

00:16:33.569 --> 00:16:36.369
Although actually just, just this
weekend, I was talking to a friend of

00:16:36.369 --> 00:16:40.920
mine who's a teacher in an elementary
school and they, there's an education

00:16:40.969 --> 00:16:44.920
program called forest schools where you
do some of the teaching out in the woods.

00:16:45.209 --> 00:16:49.740
And, uh, and she was telling me about
a child in the school who, really

00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:51.449
struggles in the normal classroom.

00:16:51.650 --> 00:16:52.719
They can't concentrate.

00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.920
They're naughty, all these sort of issues
that may be familiar to you, Travis.

00:16:56.920 --> 00:17:00.060
And yet when they get to the
outside part to the time in the

00:17:00.060 --> 00:17:02.839
forest and boom, this kid shines.

00:17:02.849 --> 00:17:04.009
They are the superstar.

00:17:04.009 --> 00:17:05.129
They're engaged.

00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:07.719
They know about the birds and
insects and boom, boom, boom.

00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:12.109
And, uh, and there's, so there's different
levels of what success at school.

00:17:12.375 --> 00:17:16.724
Could mean, I suppose, but
I, I've come to that side of

00:17:17.065 --> 00:17:19.185
nature, uh, as an adult, really.

00:17:19.185 --> 00:17:24.634
So now as an adult, I need to get out
and run around and burn off some energy.

00:17:24.634 --> 00:17:28.934
I need to get out in nature just to
de stress myself and to calm down.

00:17:29.225 --> 00:17:35.264
Um, and, and increasingly so, I find
that I turn towards just spending time

00:17:35.264 --> 00:17:41.985
outdoors to just try and slow my soul and
get through the stresses of modern life.

00:17:43.105 --> 00:17:44.945
Travis Bader: It's interesting
you bring up success.

00:17:45.615 --> 00:17:49.055
If I were to ask you, and we have
success in many different ways,

00:17:49.325 --> 00:17:51.165
but what would success be to you?

00:17:51.185 --> 00:17:54.575
Because you're a guy who's got
some pretty high ambitions.

00:17:54.725 --> 00:17:56.974
Clearly you're driven.

00:17:57.945 --> 00:17:59.844
You've got a number of
different endeavors.

00:17:59.864 --> 00:18:03.395
Mind you, they seem to follow a
similar theme and underlying theme.

00:18:04.095 --> 00:18:05.315
What is success to you?

00:18:07.165 --> 00:18:12.995
Alastair Humphreys: Well, success is
also a, something that is evolved a lot

00:18:13.045 --> 00:18:18.315
and I've realized that it is a foolish
master and a foolish goal to chase

00:18:18.325 --> 00:18:21.765
because for example, cycling around the
world, one of the re, I would come up

00:18:21.765 --> 00:18:25.335
with a challenge like that thinking I
want to do something huge and enormous

00:18:25.365 --> 00:18:28.885
and if I can just cycle around the world
then I'll Then people will tell me I'm

00:18:28.885 --> 00:18:30.855
amazing and I'll feel great about myself.

00:18:30.855 --> 00:18:32.565
And that will be real success.

00:18:32.865 --> 00:18:35.575
And I go off all the way around the
world and I get all the way back home.

00:18:35.925 --> 00:18:39.924
And I then essentially think, huh,
well, I made it around the world.

00:18:39.924 --> 00:18:41.444
So it can't actually have been that hard.

00:18:41.445 --> 00:18:43.075
So maybe I should have done
something a bit harder.

00:18:43.075 --> 00:18:45.304
So then I start trying
to think of another idea.

00:18:45.305 --> 00:18:45.535
So.

00:18:45.835 --> 00:18:50.945
So trying to chase, um, goal
driven success is the route

00:18:50.975 --> 00:18:53.304
to madness in my experience.

00:18:53.614 --> 00:18:57.564
And much better is to try
and chase the sort of success

00:18:57.564 --> 00:18:59.215
based on your, your values.

00:18:59.225 --> 00:19:03.584
So what, what's important to me to be
someone who spends a lot of time in the

00:19:03.584 --> 00:19:07.004
outdoors, who encourages people to live
adventurously, who tries to do a bit to

00:19:07.004 --> 00:19:11.595
try and fix some of the environmental
issues and, and that sort of values

00:19:11.595 --> 00:19:13.185
within me that I'm trying to work towards.

00:19:13.185 --> 00:19:15.564
And if I spend a day doing
those, then that feels like.

00:19:15.949 --> 00:19:21.690
Perhaps a successful day, but I'm really,
I'm really bad at Competitive success.

00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:26.169
So for example, if I sell a thousand
books, I don't think oh great.

00:19:26.199 --> 00:19:30.319
I just look on Amazon I see some dude
who sold 2, 000 books and I'm just

00:19:30.439 --> 00:19:34.939
jealous and angry at that guy So yeah,
I have to try to just keep it within

00:19:34.939 --> 00:19:37.159
myself rather than competing with others

00:19:38.805 --> 00:19:39.345
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:19:39.355 --> 00:19:41.625
So you've got a pretty
strong competitive nature.

00:19:41.645 --> 00:19:45.545
Clearly you've, you're competitive
with yourself in, in some of your

00:19:45.545 --> 00:19:46.725
endeavors that you've been on.

00:19:47.275 --> 00:19:52.314
Um, how do you, how do you handle
that, that natural competition

00:19:52.314 --> 00:19:53.514
that you feel within yourself?

00:19:55.375 --> 00:19:57.875
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, essentially,
although I just said that about

00:19:57.895 --> 00:20:01.764
competing with other people on books,
generally my competitive instincts

00:20:01.764 --> 00:20:06.884
are just within myself, just trying to
push myself and prove stuff to myself.

00:20:06.884 --> 00:20:07.374
And I think.

00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:13.120
I think maybe I'm just getting old
because, um, I'm not, I'm not nearly as

00:20:13.879 --> 00:20:16.330
ambitious and driven as I used to be.

00:20:16.330 --> 00:20:18.669
And I'm much more concerned now.

00:20:18.669 --> 00:20:23.260
We're trying to live a life that just
feels like it's got some purpose to it.

00:20:23.489 --> 00:20:26.829
I'm trying to do some good, but
generally also that I'm just.

00:20:27.280 --> 00:20:28.390
Enjoying my life.

00:20:28.390 --> 00:20:30.120
And that's a very new concept.

00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:33.780
Uh, until quite recently, I would
have thought that someone trying to

00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:35.360
enjoy themselves was just a wimp.

00:20:35.709 --> 00:20:39.549
And that really what I should be doing
is jumping in some ice cold lakes and

00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:43.999
having a truly miserable time in order
to ensure that I was maximally alive.

00:20:44.030 --> 00:20:48.655
But these days I'm quite happy with a,
uh, a good book and a cup of coffee.

00:20:48.655 --> 00:20:48.939
You

00:20:48.939 --> 00:20:52.820
Travis Bader: know, I've always
liked that, uh, that outlook

00:20:53.129 --> 00:20:57.649
that, uh, success is to be able
to enjoy your life and to ensure.

00:20:58.225 --> 00:21:03.315
To share that enjoyment with others and
people who have reached a point where

00:21:03.315 --> 00:21:05.095
they know how to enjoy their life.

00:21:05.105 --> 00:21:08.014
They know what it is that brings
them happiness and they're

00:21:08.014 --> 00:21:09.134
able to share it with others.

00:21:09.155 --> 00:21:13.564
I, I think that's a pretty good
measure of success for anybody.

00:21:15.574 --> 00:21:16.695
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:16.695 --> 00:21:20.975
And I, I think I envy people that you
sometimes meet people who just got that

00:21:21.075 --> 00:21:23.465
sorted and I definitely envy them and.

00:21:25.689 --> 00:21:27.830
Travis Bader: You know, I don't know
if I'm ever going to have that sorted.

00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:32.749
I, I, I like the, and a friend
of mine, you would probably, uh,

00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:35.160
uh, have some words about this.

00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.570
He's like, I don't think life is a
journey, but I like that journey.

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.720
However, we want to express ourselves.

00:21:40.735 --> 00:21:45.185
Explain that or describe that the
process being able to enjoy that

00:21:45.185 --> 00:21:48.715
process is, uh, so utterly crucial.

00:21:48.735 --> 00:21:53.454
Like when you say being goal oriented
is, um, and always striving for

00:21:53.454 --> 00:21:57.464
those goals, well, you get there
and then what, well, maybe I.

00:21:57.805 --> 00:21:58.815
Maybe I need something harder.

00:21:58.815 --> 00:22:00.425
I liken it to cliff jumping.

00:22:00.815 --> 00:22:01.325
Okay.

00:22:01.715 --> 00:22:02.544
Kind of scares me.

00:22:02.585 --> 00:22:04.395
I'm pretty high up, man.

00:22:04.505 --> 00:22:05.565
Is the water deep enough?

00:22:05.565 --> 00:22:06.355
I think it was.

00:22:06.355 --> 00:22:07.214
I threw a rocket.

00:22:07.214 --> 00:22:08.415
It sounded like it was okay.

00:22:08.645 --> 00:22:09.254
Let's go.

00:22:09.504 --> 00:22:09.904
Okay.

00:22:09.945 --> 00:22:10.585
That was good.

00:22:10.775 --> 00:22:12.135
Let's do it a couple more times.

00:22:12.594 --> 00:22:14.804
Now, what, well, let's
climb a little bit higher.

00:22:15.145 --> 00:22:15.395
Right.

00:22:15.435 --> 00:22:16.485
And you keep doing that.

00:22:16.945 --> 00:22:22.725
And at what point do you stop when
you suffer serious injury, because

00:22:22.735 --> 00:22:23.984
you don't want to give up, right?

00:22:23.985 --> 00:22:26.705
You don't want to let your
fears get the, get ahold of you.

00:22:26.735 --> 00:22:32.174
So I liken that process of, uh,
goal chasing to cliff jumping.

00:22:33.204 --> 00:22:34.774
And maybe we need some of that.

00:22:34.785 --> 00:22:37.465
Maybe we need those failures
to keep pushing this up if

00:22:37.465 --> 00:22:38.985
they're, uh, controlled, but.

00:22:39.969 --> 00:22:43.870
Man, there's something to be being
able to be content with the process of

00:22:43.879 --> 00:22:45.654
being content with what you're doing.

00:22:47.395 --> 00:22:48.175
There's no question in there.

00:22:48.185 --> 00:22:49.274
It's just a big, long statement.

00:22:49.785 --> 00:22:50.895
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah,
that was a long statement.

00:22:50.935 --> 00:22:53.595
I was about to try and think what to
say, but I'll let you ask a question.

00:22:54.715 --> 00:22:55.215
Travis Bader: No problem.

00:22:55.564 --> 00:22:58.935
So you had a podcast for a while,
which I thought was pretty cool.

00:22:58.975 --> 00:23:03.574
Cause it's interesting listening to you
at your first episode and then listening

00:23:03.574 --> 00:23:10.925
to you as you progress through and how
you get more and more podcast develops.

00:23:11.215 --> 00:23:12.235
What was that?

00:23:12.264 --> 00:23:16.745
Just my own personal sort of, uh,
uh, selfish question here, but

00:23:16.745 --> 00:23:18.985
what was that process like for you?

00:23:20.905 --> 00:23:23.955
Alastair Humphreys: First of all,
I absolutely loved having a podcast

00:23:24.415 --> 00:23:27.874
and I continually trying to work
out ways to get it back to life.

00:23:27.895 --> 00:23:32.534
Uh, essentially it seemed to me, it's
just an excuse to find someone that

00:23:32.625 --> 00:23:33.995
I thought interesting and say, Hey.

00:23:34.205 --> 00:23:37.665
Please can we hang out together for
an hour, um, in a way that if I didn't

00:23:37.674 --> 00:23:41.165
have a podcast and just ask people that
it would seem a bit creepy and weird.

00:23:41.174 --> 00:23:43.034
So I love that aspect of it.

00:23:43.575 --> 00:23:48.835
Um, I mean, and interesting that you
mentioned the technical change in it.

00:23:48.845 --> 00:23:51.494
I mean, the, literally the first
time I took the microphone.

00:23:51.764 --> 00:23:54.905
out of the packet and press record
was when I put it in front of my

00:23:54.935 --> 00:23:58.774
first guest, which is a terrible
way to go about the technique.

00:23:58.774 --> 00:24:00.995
But hey, ho, I improved a bit.

00:24:01.325 --> 00:24:04.694
But what I really enjoyed about
it was I, I just, I spent a whole

00:24:04.705 --> 00:24:07.354
month cycling around Yorkshire.

00:24:07.354 --> 00:24:10.284
This is the small County
that I grew up in in England.

00:24:10.294 --> 00:24:13.420
And I did this because I'd been
all the way around the world, but

00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:17.620
I realized I didn't know very much
about home where I'd grown up at all.

00:24:17.820 --> 00:24:21.860
So I was interested just to go and
explore where I lived and I was

00:24:21.860 --> 00:24:26.580
also very interested in what living
adventurously meant to different people.

00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:31.004
I had my own ideas that living an
adventurous life was uh, pursuit

00:24:31.044 --> 00:24:35.115
worth going for, but how did other
people approach that same question?

00:24:35.125 --> 00:24:39.054
So I just went interviewing people who
in their different ways were living

00:24:39.225 --> 00:24:44.034
adventurously and they were artists or
photographers or all sorts of various

00:24:44.034 --> 00:24:47.474
different things, but it was just
essentially a really nice chance to

00:24:47.475 --> 00:24:49.854
chat, but I found it deceptively hard.

00:24:49.854 --> 00:24:53.215
So I'd prepare my questions and
then you ask the guy the first

00:24:53.215 --> 00:24:56.495
question and they answer and go off
in a totally different direction.

00:24:56.965 --> 00:25:00.095
So then in my head, I'm trying,
I'm trying to hold the microphone

00:25:00.095 --> 00:25:00.965
in front of the person.

00:25:01.185 --> 00:25:03.425
I'm trying to read what my second
question is, but also in my

00:25:03.425 --> 00:25:06.185
head, I'm thinking, well, maybe I
should go down this new direction.

00:25:06.195 --> 00:25:07.235
Cause this is really interesting.

00:25:07.505 --> 00:25:09.525
And by the end of the interview,
I was absolutely exhausted.

00:25:09.525 --> 00:25:14.125
So, um, I found it really quite hard
to do, but, but enjoyable as well.

00:25:15.634 --> 00:25:18.455
Travis Bader: I've always found the
hardest part about recording any

00:25:18.485 --> 00:25:20.304
podcast is just my introduction.

00:25:20.645 --> 00:25:21.465
Cause I always look at it.

00:25:21.465 --> 00:25:25.484
Like if I'm going to have somebody
into my house, I don't, I know

00:25:25.485 --> 00:25:29.344
some podcast hosts will do this and
no judgment, but they'll say, go

00:25:29.344 --> 00:25:30.774
introduce yourself to the audience.

00:25:31.395 --> 00:25:33.355
I wouldn't have somebody
into my house and say, oh, go

00:25:33.355 --> 00:25:34.505
introduce yourself to everyone.

00:25:34.614 --> 00:25:36.735
I'm going to bring them on in
and say, this is Alistair, here's

00:25:36.735 --> 00:25:37.864
a bit about his background.

00:25:38.565 --> 00:25:40.035
Introduce them to the rest of the group.

00:25:40.035 --> 00:25:42.125
And I, and I look at the
podcast as the same way.

00:25:42.615 --> 00:25:47.165
Mind you, that sets a tone for the
podcast where now the person is

00:25:47.175 --> 00:25:48.705
like, okay, now I've been introduced.

00:25:48.705 --> 00:25:49.925
Here's what I got to live up to.

00:25:49.925 --> 00:25:55.345
And it becomes a, uh, sort of an
interview question answers kind of format.

00:25:55.345 --> 00:26:00.084
And I've always loved the, the back
and forth that we're often able to

00:26:00.084 --> 00:26:03.114
develop in a podcast where people
throw things right back at me.

00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:05.409
They say the, well, that's
a really stupid question.

00:26:05.450 --> 00:26:06.530
Let me ask you this.

00:26:06.530 --> 00:26:06.770
Right.

00:26:06.770 --> 00:26:12.480
And, and that's the, the beauty of the
podcast I find is, is how it can evolve.

00:26:13.155 --> 00:26:19.785
And, you know, I'm previously right before
recording this, you were on an Instagram

00:26:19.795 --> 00:26:24.014
live and you're with the river trust
and talking with them and talking about

00:26:24.635 --> 00:26:30.305
great joy you've had out in swimming
in the different rivers and, uh, brings

00:26:30.305 --> 00:26:34.995
to mind a podcast that you did talking
about, I think it was a Ted talk that

00:26:34.995 --> 00:26:36.855
you're going to go talk at, or, or some.

00:26:37.290 --> 00:26:41.410
Talk in the, uh, in the Netherlands
and a taxi driver picks you up

00:26:41.950 --> 00:26:46.190
and, um, you talk him into doing
something a little bit crazy.

00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:47.450
Did you want to talk me through this one?

00:26:47.450 --> 00:26:48.400
If you remember this.

00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:50.940
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah,
I do remember this episode.

00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:55.389
So I is, I, um, do quite a lot
of talks in different places.

00:26:55.459 --> 00:26:58.519
And I, so I took the train
from London to Amsterdam.

00:26:58.749 --> 00:27:05.759
to go speak at some boring corporate
sort of event, um, but the taxi driver

00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.539
picked me up and he was driving me to
the place and it was a hot summer's

00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:12.499
day and in the Netherlands there were a
load of canals, of course they're famous

00:27:12.499 --> 00:27:16.259
for that, but what I noticed as we were
driving there it was a hot summer's day.

00:27:16.675 --> 00:27:20.065
There are a load of kids and teenagers
jumping off the bridges into the canals,

00:27:20.415 --> 00:27:24.755
and I love doing stuff like that, but I
was on my way to an important corporate

00:27:24.755 --> 00:27:28.904
event, sensible guy, and I was with a
taxi driver, so I said, oh, oh well,

00:27:29.214 --> 00:27:32.615
and then after a bit I was like, come
on, I really want to go jump in a

00:27:32.664 --> 00:27:36.605
canal, not least of all because the
topic that I We're speaking about it.

00:27:36.614 --> 00:27:39.475
These events was, Hey, just
get on and live your life.

00:27:39.514 --> 00:27:41.025
Be adventurous, blah, blah, blah.

00:27:41.215 --> 00:27:43.364
And there was I just sitting
in a taxi being lazy.

00:27:43.364 --> 00:27:48.314
So I said to this guy, can we stop at the
next canal so I can jump into the canal?

00:27:48.314 --> 00:27:51.574
And he sort of laughed and thought I
was a strange, but of course, you know,

00:27:51.594 --> 00:27:53.245
I'm the client, he's the taxi guy.

00:27:53.245 --> 00:27:54.544
So he kind of has to do whatever I want.

00:27:54.545 --> 00:27:55.264
He's like, yeah, sure.

00:27:55.604 --> 00:27:58.220
So as we drive towards the next
one, then I say, Have you ever

00:27:58.220 --> 00:27:59.340
jumped in one of these canals?

00:27:59.350 --> 00:28:00.879
He said, no, no, I've
never done that before.

00:28:00.879 --> 00:28:02.480
I thought, right, why don't you join me?

00:28:02.669 --> 00:28:04.110
So he's like, okay.

00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:08.029
And I was delighted that he was just
willing to grasp it and say, okay.

00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:12.319
So we stopped the car and we both
got out of the car and we just had

00:28:12.320 --> 00:28:13.810
to strip down to our boxer shorts.

00:28:14.134 --> 00:28:16.375
Jump off a fairly high
bridge into the canal.

00:28:16.375 --> 00:28:17.114
It was fantastic.

00:28:17.145 --> 00:28:21.585
We laughed and I think we did it two or
three times and then we just had to get

00:28:21.585 --> 00:28:23.355
dressed, get back in the car and drive on.

00:28:23.355 --> 00:28:26.714
And it was a lovely little experience,
but you know, I, I do that sort of

00:28:26.714 --> 00:28:29.795
thing a lot, so I enjoyed it, but
it wasn't that big a deal to me.

00:28:30.005 --> 00:28:31.104
This guy sent me.

00:28:31.375 --> 00:28:32.245
An email afterwards.

00:28:32.475 --> 00:28:33.145
This was amazing.

00:28:33.154 --> 00:28:35.924
And then he sent me an email a
year later with a photo of us.

00:28:35.944 --> 00:28:37.645
Like, wow, do you remember
when we did this together?

00:28:37.884 --> 00:28:42.424
And I just thought that was so fantastic
that he'd also really appreciated that.

00:28:42.424 --> 00:28:45.184
And who knows, maybe he'd got
some other clients to go jump

00:28:45.184 --> 00:28:46.364
in rivers at other points.

00:28:46.384 --> 00:28:47.964
So yeah, it was a lovely experience.

00:28:48.885 --> 00:28:50.495
Travis Bader: It's got to
be one of the most memorable

00:28:50.495 --> 00:28:52.355
taxi rides I'm sure he's had.

00:28:53.045 --> 00:28:56.485
I got to wonder, was he still on the clock
when he was jumping in, or did he turn the

00:28:56.485 --> 00:28:58.234
clock or the cab off when he was jumping?

00:28:59.314 --> 00:29:00.425
Alastair Humphreys: I
hope he was on the clock.

00:29:00.974 --> 00:29:05.064
Also, when, uh, when we were about to
jump in, this guy, uh, he's a tax driver.

00:29:05.064 --> 00:29:07.205
He had massive muscles
and a huge six pack.

00:29:07.224 --> 00:29:09.917
He made me feel like a real
scrawny little wimpy guy

00:29:09.917 --> 00:29:11.724
Travis Bader: next to him.

00:29:11.725 --> 00:29:12.445
Oh man.

00:29:13.300 --> 00:29:20.180
You know, that's what, it's amazing
what we can accomplish in life and the

00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:25.780
adventures that we can have if we just
open our mind up to being acceptable

00:29:25.780 --> 00:29:27.999
to them, um, to being open to them.

00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:30.830
And that's really what you're pushing.

00:29:31.239 --> 00:29:35.919
If I gather correctly with
micro adventures, changing the

00:29:35.919 --> 00:29:38.300
perspective of what an adventure is.

00:29:39.535 --> 00:29:44.275
And harnessing that same sort of thing
that you would feel on one of your epic

00:29:44.275 --> 00:29:48.495
massive adventures without having to
break the bank, without having to really

00:29:48.505 --> 00:29:52.435
travel too far from home and maybe
even get it done before you go to work.

00:29:53.775 --> 00:29:55.105
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely.

00:29:55.125 --> 00:29:59.155
So I think a lot of people, hopefully
people listening to this podcast

00:29:59.495 --> 00:30:03.475
enjoy the idea of adventure, you
know, they were talking about crossing

00:30:03.475 --> 00:30:05.225
oceans and cycling across continents.

00:30:05.225 --> 00:30:08.385
And it's quite fun to listen to these sort
of stories like, Oh, that sounds great.

00:30:08.850 --> 00:30:12.760
But it's kind of also not really
very helpful for real people in

00:30:12.760 --> 00:30:16.390
real lives with real jobs and
real commitments and families and

00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:17.720
mortgages and all that sort of stuff.

00:30:18.130 --> 00:30:22.240
So it struck me that there was a
bit of a disconnect here between

00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.290
the number of people who like the
idea of adventures versus those who

00:30:25.290 --> 00:30:26.910
have the opportunities to do it.

00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.600
So I wondered if I could somehow try and
bridge the gap between the two to take all

00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:36.030
this good stuff of adventure that we all
love and somehow make it compatible with.

00:30:36.560 --> 00:30:42.280
busy real life to find short, simple,
local, affordable alternatives to

00:30:42.280 --> 00:30:43.650
the big adventures I was doing.

00:30:43.870 --> 00:30:49.010
So what I've started to do is always was
then was to just think what opportunities

00:30:49.010 --> 00:30:51.050
for adventure can you find in your day?

00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.350
Not what barriers are getting in the way.

00:30:53.350 --> 00:30:56.130
So don't complain about, Oh,
I've got the nine to five job.

00:30:56.130 --> 00:30:56.870
I can't do it.

00:30:57.120 --> 00:30:59.650
Ask yourself, well, what
about the five to nine?

00:30:59.670 --> 00:31:02.360
When I finished work in the
evening, what can I do until?

00:31:02.425 --> 00:31:04.225
I have to go back to
work the next morning.

00:31:04.335 --> 00:31:05.965
Maybe I can fit something in then.

00:31:06.005 --> 00:31:10.225
And don't think, oh, I haven't got enough
money to row across the Atlantic, say.

00:31:10.395 --> 00:31:13.165
Instead think, oh, wow, I've
got 50 bucks in my pocket.

00:31:13.205 --> 00:31:17.145
I wonder, maybe I could get a train
to some place I've never been to a few

00:31:17.145 --> 00:31:19.665
hours away and walk home this weekend.

00:31:19.675 --> 00:31:22.545
What, what advent, what
opportunities are there, not

00:31:22.555 --> 00:31:23.995
what obstacles stand in the way.

00:31:23.995 --> 00:31:24.075
So.

00:31:24.475 --> 00:31:27.535
Yeah, my adventures, um, over
the last 10 years, it just got

00:31:27.535 --> 00:31:29.115
smaller and smaller and smaller.

00:31:29.165 --> 00:31:33.425
And then hopefully at the same time
become more accessible and relatable

00:31:33.425 --> 00:31:37.375
to more people so that people not only
enjoy hearing about adventures, but they

00:31:37.375 --> 00:31:43.044
now have more opportunities and fewer
excuses not to go do them for themselves.

00:31:44.405 --> 00:31:47.955
Travis Bader: When you're doing your
podcast and you were asking people

00:31:47.965 --> 00:31:53.705
what it was like to live adventurously,
uh, what was a common thread?

00:31:54.065 --> 00:31:55.855
Was there a common
thread that you'd found?

00:31:56.365 --> 00:32:02.105
What was the thing that would drive people
to want to live a more adventurous life?

00:32:03.405 --> 00:32:05.025
Alastair Humphreys: I think
the people that I was speaking

00:32:05.045 --> 00:32:08.225
to were quite willing to.

00:32:09.025 --> 00:32:10.195
go against the herd.

00:32:10.225 --> 00:32:16.335
So not just to do the stuff that
society deemed was normal or expected.

00:32:16.345 --> 00:32:22.005
So perhaps a streak of individuality
and eccentricity and a willingness to

00:32:22.005 --> 00:32:28.815
walk their own path and quite a strong
awareness that time is very short and

00:32:28.895 --> 00:32:32.960
for all of us and yet Well, any of us
who are listening to this podcast, we're

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.770
on the privileged end of global society.

00:32:35.970 --> 00:32:40.020
And if we don't make the most
of that incredible, um, lottery

00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:43.130
winning ticket of birth, then
it'd be a bit of a shame, really.

00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:48.560
So I think it's about just not caring
what other people think, being honest

00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:53.110
about what you personally feel is
important and fulfilling and adventurous.

00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:56.525
And then Making it happen
because time is ticking.

00:32:56.875 --> 00:32:59.285
So, um, yeah, time is ticking.

00:32:59.285 --> 00:33:02.705
That that's certainly something
that has driven me to a lot of my

00:33:02.715 --> 00:33:06.315
projects is I have an idea and then
I'm thinking, well, let's just get

00:33:06.315 --> 00:33:08.185
on with it because time is ticking.

00:33:09.905 --> 00:33:12.075
Travis Bader: Do you keep that
sense of mortality in your,

00:33:12.075 --> 00:33:13.315
uh, your head at all times?

00:33:13.315 --> 00:33:15.305
The whole momentum Mori sort of concept.

00:33:17.465 --> 00:33:21.905
Alastair Humphreys: Um, as I was saying
that then I realized that I haven't said

00:33:21.915 --> 00:33:26.385
that for a few years and it certainly
used to be a really big driver for me,

00:33:26.385 --> 00:33:30.615
but I think as I'm a mellowing, I'm
getting more accepting and I'm less

00:33:30.625 --> 00:33:35.105
driven and ambitious, I think, than, than
I was a bunch of years ago, but there's

00:33:35.195 --> 00:33:37.295
a fantastic website called death clock.

00:33:38.375 --> 00:33:42.865
and you type into it, your, your age,
your gender, your height, your weight,

00:33:42.875 --> 00:33:46.885
whether or not you smoke and it calculates
for you the day that you will die.

00:33:47.165 --> 00:33:51.335
Um, which is sort of depressing, but I
personally find it really inspiring and

00:33:51.335 --> 00:33:55.095
I actually have it in my calendar, my
Google calendar of, uh, on this date,

00:33:55.185 --> 00:33:57.895
I am dead and all following dates.

00:33:58.125 --> 00:34:00.315
Um, and I put it in for a bit
of a joke, but actually it's

00:34:00.325 --> 00:34:01.405
quite serious for me now.

00:34:01.405 --> 00:34:03.655
It's like anything that
I want to get done.

00:34:04.420 --> 00:34:07.570
Has to get done before this date
that's in my calendar because after

00:34:07.570 --> 00:34:12.090
that I'm, I'm busy being dead for
the rest of the existing universe.

00:34:12.100 --> 00:34:14.350
So, uh, it is the deadline.

00:34:15.095 --> 00:34:17.385
Travis Bader: Do you remember what
that date is off top of your head?

00:34:18.015 --> 00:34:21.065
Alastair Humphreys: It's
alarmingly, it's alarmingly soon.

00:34:21.145 --> 00:34:25.775
It's, it's, I don't remember the
date, but it's, it's much sooner

00:34:25.775 --> 00:34:26.895
than I would like it to be.

00:34:28.545 --> 00:34:31.235
Travis Bader: You know, my
grandfather died when he was 56.

00:34:31.305 --> 00:34:35.335
I never met him, but I saw pictures
of him and, Oh, look at that old man.

00:34:35.345 --> 00:34:35.735
Right.

00:34:36.215 --> 00:34:36.865
56.

00:34:36.865 --> 00:34:38.855
It sounds like a good ripe old age to go.

00:34:39.265 --> 00:34:40.559
Now that I'm getting older, I'm like.

00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:43.680
Man, that was pretty young
in the scheme of things.

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:45.380
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

00:34:45.560 --> 00:34:45.820
Yeah.

00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:47.120
That's scary, isn't

00:34:47.120 --> 00:34:47.360
Travis Bader: it?

00:34:47.970 --> 00:34:48.560
Totally.

00:34:48.590 --> 00:34:48.850
Yeah.

00:34:48.850 --> 00:34:53.300
Being able to, um, get things accomplished
while there's still light of day is

00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:56.420
definitely, uh, a motivator for many.

00:34:56.480 --> 00:35:01.110
Um, it's funny that you'd say that that
was something that really sort of drove

00:35:01.110 --> 00:35:05.910
you, but you're starting to mellow
and, uh, it's not on your head as much.

00:35:05.910 --> 00:35:09.680
Is that because you feel you've gotten
those key pieces accomplished or

00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:11.410
is it because your perspective on.

00:35:11.670 --> 00:35:12.610
Death is changing.

00:35:13.950 --> 00:35:17.490
Alastair Humphreys: Um, just incidentally,
while you're asking me that question, I

00:35:17.490 --> 00:35:21.252
quickly typed into my Google calendar,
uh, death, and I've got it scheduled

00:35:21.252 --> 00:35:27.740
in for the 8th of September, 2055, and
it says my death day one, uh, and then

00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:30.610
9th of September, my death day two.

00:35:30.850 --> 00:35:33.820
So yeah, if you want to call
me, you've got to do it for 8th

00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:37.980
of September, 2055, because I'm
pretty busy after that being dead.

00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.170
Um, so I, I think, I think
things have changed for me.

00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:45.310
Through a conscious.

00:35:46.485 --> 00:35:50.455
A conscious effort to try to
make myself be less ambitious.

00:35:50.465 --> 00:35:56.505
So my ambition has to become less
ambitious to accept more that what I've

00:35:56.505 --> 00:36:01.275
got is good enough and to appreciate
what I've got and to be tried to be

00:36:01.275 --> 00:36:05.185
driven by some of those sort of internal
values around the external goals and

00:36:05.185 --> 00:36:08.375
targets of, Oh, just one more adventure,
one more book, blah, blah, blah.

00:36:08.635 --> 00:36:12.635
So it's been a conscious effort to
just sort of slow down and accept

00:36:12.765 --> 00:36:14.795
what I have and that enough is enough.

00:36:16.455 --> 00:36:19.345
Travis Bader: So a lot of people listening
to this, I'm sure would be intrigued

00:36:19.365 --> 00:36:23.915
by the adventures that you've been on
and intrigued by the fact that micro

00:36:23.915 --> 00:36:27.925
adventures maybe isn't something that's
even been on their radar in the past,

00:36:28.985 --> 00:36:31.039
but they also might come up with some.

00:36:31.430 --> 00:36:36.389
You know, maybe you've seen it, some
common barriers or misconceptions

00:36:36.390 --> 00:36:39.860
that might prevent them from
embarking on a micro adventure.

00:36:40.600 --> 00:36:45.590
Have you seen many misconceptions or
barriers that would prevent a person and

00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:47.540
how would you suggest they overcome that?

00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:49.110
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:52.780
So I started to take micro
adventures quite seriously, um,

00:36:53.345 --> 00:36:56.115
Geez, quite a long time ago, 10
years, more than 10 years ago.

00:36:56.345 --> 00:36:59.325
And I'd send out some questionnaires
to people like what's stopping

00:36:59.325 --> 00:37:00.425
you having adventures?

00:37:00.665 --> 00:37:03.385
And I'd get hundreds and
hundreds of replies to these.

00:37:03.395 --> 00:37:08.515
So essentially the two big ones are
a lack of time or a lack of money.

00:37:08.865 --> 00:37:11.345
Generally in life, you either
don't have enough time or

00:37:11.345 --> 00:37:12.195
you don't have enough money.

00:37:12.225 --> 00:37:16.185
There's generally a period
for one of those two things.

00:37:16.425 --> 00:37:19.915
Um, then, Um, a perceived
lack of expertise.

00:37:19.975 --> 00:37:22.075
Oh, it's okay for you
to have an adventure.

00:37:22.385 --> 00:37:25.675
Uh, I can't do that because
I'm too young, too old, too

00:37:25.705 --> 00:37:27.905
thin, too heavy, too old, too.

00:37:28.105 --> 00:37:30.875
What I'm not fit enough, all
these sorts of perceived things.

00:37:31.235 --> 00:37:34.685
Um, whereas what I'm trying to
emphasize with micro ventures is.

00:37:35.425 --> 00:37:37.265
Do what you can with what you've got.

00:37:37.325 --> 00:37:40.355
Sure, you might not be able to climb
Mount Everest, but for you, maybe

00:37:40.355 --> 00:37:43.655
climbing that hill that you can see
from your office window that you've

00:37:43.655 --> 00:37:46.615
never been to before, maybe that's
your personal version of Everest.

00:37:46.805 --> 00:37:47.545
So that's one thing.

00:37:47.555 --> 00:37:50.645
And then the fourth is um, geographical.

00:37:50.655 --> 00:37:53.915
So people think Oh, I can't
have an adventure cause I

00:37:53.915 --> 00:37:55.855
live in boring old Britain.

00:37:55.855 --> 00:37:59.095
If I only lived in Vancouver, then
I'd have these wonderful adventures.

00:37:59.375 --> 00:38:02.835
Whereas of course there'll be loads
of people in Vancouver thinking, Oh,

00:38:03.215 --> 00:38:05.525
boring old Canada been in all my life.

00:38:05.545 --> 00:38:08.025
If only I could go to England,
that'd be a real adventure.

00:38:08.025 --> 00:38:11.255
So try to try to get the, into your mind.

00:38:11.515 --> 00:38:17.375
The idea that just try and seek wildness
and nature close to where you live.

00:38:17.395 --> 00:38:20.435
Don't just wish that you lived
in a log cabin in Patagonia.

00:38:20.445 --> 00:38:21.475
Just do what you can.

00:38:22.075 --> 00:38:25.815
So they're the four chief things that
I come up against time and again.

00:38:25.825 --> 00:38:30.294
But the two biggest by far are
lack of time or lack of money.

00:38:31.935 --> 00:38:34.695
Travis Bader: Isn't it funny,
the, uh, the doctrine of distance.

00:38:34.745 --> 00:38:38.965
And we talk about that in the, so
I, I run a training company as well.

00:38:38.975 --> 00:38:42.955
And we talk about that in training
and people will bring in an instructor

00:38:42.965 --> 00:38:48.095
from another province or another
state going into the, uh, The United

00:38:48.095 --> 00:38:49.945
States there, well, they must be good.

00:38:49.945 --> 00:38:51.245
Cause look at how far they're coming from.

00:38:51.275 --> 00:38:55.965
Oh, but if you get one from the UK, well
now we got, we got a heavy hitter now.

00:38:55.975 --> 00:38:57.245
Cause look at how far they've come.

00:38:57.475 --> 00:39:00.615
The doctrine of distance and the same
thing applies to going on an adventure.

00:39:00.615 --> 00:39:04.555
It's like, Oh yeah, look at, look
at all these beautiful places that

00:39:04.565 --> 00:39:06.325
we've got posters on the wall of that.

00:39:06.325 --> 00:39:08.765
And one day I'm going to get out
and I'm going to check this out.

00:39:10.015 --> 00:39:13.575
And the amount of absolutely beautiful
places that are right here in our

00:39:13.585 --> 00:39:18.655
backyard, when you just kind of look
around a little bit is, is pretty crazy.

00:39:19.670 --> 00:39:24.340
I think that's a really good distinction
that people can make is having that

00:39:24.520 --> 00:39:28.420
passion and joy in their hearts
for something that is accessible.

00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:30.030
It's right here, right in your backyard.

00:39:30.605 --> 00:39:31.915
Alastair Humphreys: I, I
think you're exactly right.

00:39:31.935 --> 00:39:38.205
I was talking, um, to someone a while ago
about how I've been exploring the local

00:39:38.205 --> 00:39:42.275
map that I live on and I found interesting
little things close to where I live.

00:39:42.515 --> 00:39:44.635
And this person said to
me, yeah, that's fine.

00:39:44.645 --> 00:39:46.335
But where I live, I live in Kansas.

00:39:46.335 --> 00:39:47.215
This is so boring.

00:39:47.215 --> 00:39:48.325
There's nothing to see here.

00:39:48.715 --> 00:39:51.655
And I just said, I've
never been to Kansas.

00:39:51.655 --> 00:39:55.365
If you suddenly dropped me now in the
middle of Kansas, I'd be so interested.

00:39:55.365 --> 00:39:56.265
Like, wow, look at this.

00:39:56.325 --> 00:40:01.885
There's a giant cornfields or I
don't know, a cafe selling pancakes.

00:40:01.885 --> 00:40:03.975
I don't know what I'd find, but
that would be so interesting.

00:40:04.815 --> 00:40:07.575
The very fact that he
listened to me saying.

00:40:08.180 --> 00:40:10.050
There is interesting stuff where you live.

00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:13.640
And he'd said, yet, yet that's true,
but not for me because where I live

00:40:13.640 --> 00:40:16.650
is boring, really, really struck me.

00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:18.230
Travis Bader: That's funny.

00:40:18.490 --> 00:40:22.140
You know, uh, haven't done it in a
while and I probably should, but I used

00:40:22.140 --> 00:40:26.820
to go to the bookstore and I'd take a
look at, um, uh, what were they like

00:40:26.830 --> 00:40:31.780
the lonely planet, or they had things
like Europe on a shoestring or all

00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:33.680
these different kinds of travel books.

00:40:33.730 --> 00:40:34.980
And I'd look at ones.

00:40:35.195 --> 00:40:39.025
For my area and I'd go through and I'd
take notes of different things and then

00:40:39.025 --> 00:40:43.065
I'd go out and I'd check that out because,
you know, growing up, I had no money.

00:40:43.065 --> 00:40:45.155
And that was, that was
something that was fun.

00:40:45.155 --> 00:40:49.695
It was kind of neat, but you, it, if I'm
having a difficult time looking at it from

00:40:49.765 --> 00:40:55.755
a An outsider's perspective, just going
to those websites or going to those books.

00:40:55.755 --> 00:40:59.165
Cause when I was doing it, we didn't
have websites, but, uh, uh, was

00:40:59.165 --> 00:41:00.875
something that helped me get out there.

00:41:01.355 --> 00:41:03.755
Alastair Humphreys: I did exactly
the same thing when I got home

00:41:03.755 --> 00:41:07.375
from cycling around the world,
having just been in 60 countries.

00:41:07.830 --> 00:41:10.270
When I'm in a foreign country,
I find everything interesting.

00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:10.480
Wow.

00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:10.890
Wow.

00:41:10.900 --> 00:41:12.730
Look, look how the supermarkets work.

00:41:12.950 --> 00:41:14.350
Oh, so interesting.

00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:16.090
The school buses are
yellow in this country.

00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.570
I'm just, I find everything
interesting in other countries.

00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.950
And when I get home, I'm home.

00:41:21.550 --> 00:41:24.700
So when I got home from cycle around the
world, one of the first things I did was

00:41:24.700 --> 00:41:30.050
buy the lonely planet guide to Britain
and the lonely planet guide to London for

00:41:30.050 --> 00:41:34.920
exactly the same reasons as you just said,
to make myself remember, to be curious

00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.470
and have that curious traveller's eye.

00:41:38.020 --> 00:41:38.690
Right here at home,

00:41:40.350 --> 00:41:44.850
Travis Bader: one thing that I found, and
maybe you found the same thing is when

00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:47.510
traveling, particularly traveling solo.

00:41:47.510 --> 00:41:52.500
I love to travel solo just because
you learn a lot about yourself and

00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:55.080
you can learn a lot about things
and be put into situations that you

00:41:55.080 --> 00:41:59.000
might not otherwise be put in if
you're in a group, but the number of

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:00.930
people that would reach out and say.

00:42:01.650 --> 00:42:03.840
Oh, hey, um, you need a place to stay?

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.250
I got a place you can come to,
to my place to stay tonight.

00:42:06.270 --> 00:42:08.080
Oh, what are you doing for dinner tonight?

00:42:08.090 --> 00:42:09.080
My treat, come on out.

00:42:09.080 --> 00:42:10.070
I just want to practice.

00:42:10.545 --> 00:42:15.365
English, and I was always a little
suspect and I tend to say, no, no, no, no.

00:42:15.365 --> 00:42:15.985
I'm fine.

00:42:16.215 --> 00:42:21.805
Even though again, broke, I would save
money on accommodations by sleeping

00:42:21.805 --> 00:42:26.005
on trains or finding a little place
where I could, uh, make a little camp.

00:42:26.055 --> 00:42:29.095
And so that way I'd have some
money to be able to pay for

00:42:29.095 --> 00:42:30.715
those trains or pay for the food.

00:42:31.955 --> 00:42:35.805
You wouldn't find that same sort
of interaction in our own backyard.

00:42:35.805 --> 00:42:38.835
It's not like I walk around Vancouver
and people are like, Oh, you look hungry.

00:42:39.115 --> 00:42:43.985
hungry or you want a place to stay and
you get this idea that people where I'm at

00:42:43.995 --> 00:42:49.805
aren't friendly, people where I'm at just
aren't as open, but maybe, maybe it's you.

00:42:50.025 --> 00:42:50.985
Have you found this?

00:42:52.515 --> 00:42:56.025
Alastair Humphreys: So I've got a really
good example of exactly this dilemma.

00:42:56.315 --> 00:43:00.275
Uh, so, um, one of my earliest micro
adventures actually, although now I

00:43:00.275 --> 00:43:04.115
look back, it's actually quite big for a
micro adventure, but I decided to walk.

00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:05.620
Right the way around London.

00:43:05.830 --> 00:43:09.120
There's a road, a big motorway, a
big freeway that goes in a circle

00:43:09.120 --> 00:43:10.910
around London called the M 25.

00:43:11.240 --> 00:43:12.250
It's full of traffic.

00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.480
It goes through endless boring suburbia.

00:43:14.550 --> 00:43:15.470
Everyone hates it.

00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.640
And I decided to walk a lap
of it to try and show that you

00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:21.630
can find adventure anywhere.

00:43:21.660 --> 00:43:23.710
And hey, maybe there's
some beauty along the way.

00:43:23.990 --> 00:43:28.795
So, um, I did that in January It was
snowy and cold, but I had quite a

00:43:28.795 --> 00:43:32.205
big rucksack, backpack on, with my
tent, I was camping along the way.

00:43:32.445 --> 00:43:37.025
So, I'd get to these completely ordinary
English towns, the sort of places

00:43:37.035 --> 00:43:38.765
that I've spent, I mean, all the time.

00:43:38.975 --> 00:43:43.245
But suddenly I'd be walking into the cafe
or the pub with my huge backpack on and my

00:43:43.245 --> 00:43:45.590
tent and like Suddenly I look different.

00:43:45.600 --> 00:43:48.740
I was an interesting, exotic arrival.

00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:52.320
And suddenly people like, Hey
stranger, tell us where you're from.

00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:53.820
Tell me your story here.

00:43:53.860 --> 00:43:55.170
Let me buy you breakfast.

00:43:55.430 --> 00:43:57.450
Uh, it's really cold outside tonight.

00:43:57.450 --> 00:43:59.150
Why don't you put your
tent up in my garden?

00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:01.950
The sort of stuff that never
happens to be normal in Britain.

00:44:02.190 --> 00:44:05.040
But because I was suddenly
different, I was an adventurer.

00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:06.010
I was on a journey.

00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:07.470
People responded to that.

00:44:07.790 --> 00:44:12.470
Um, so yeah, that was an exact test of
the theory you just, you just mentioned.

00:44:13.210 --> 00:44:18.350
Travis Bader: That's really cool for, for
me, that's, uh, one of the coolest things

00:44:18.350 --> 00:44:22.450
about, about traveling is just meeting
the people, seeing the cultures and being

00:44:22.460 --> 00:44:26.900
open to those sorts of experiences, being
able to have that in your own backyard.

00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.240
That's pretty cool.

00:44:30.220 --> 00:44:33.600
So are you able to share?

00:44:33.845 --> 00:44:40.785
A personal micro adventure that was, uh,
impactful for you, meaningful for you.

00:44:40.835 --> 00:44:42.595
Was there one that really stands out?

00:44:44.295 --> 00:44:44.555
Well,

00:44:44.555 --> 00:44:46.975
Alastair Humphreys: that was certainly
the walking around London was a

00:44:46.985 --> 00:44:52.485
really pivotal one for me because
I, I, um, I did it to try and prove.

00:44:52.970 --> 00:44:53.640
One point.

00:44:53.650 --> 00:44:57.480
And the point I was trying to prove was
that you don't need to go to the end of

00:44:57.500 --> 00:45:00.340
the world to have some sort of physical
challenge and a bit of an adventure.

00:45:00.610 --> 00:45:02.350
And it was interesting in that regard.

00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:06.080
At the same time, I did kind of
think it was going to be a pretty

00:45:06.120 --> 00:45:11.290
ugly, fairly boring sort of journey
through boring suburban towns.

00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:13.750
And it's true.

00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:16.050
I mean, there are a lot of
boring, ugly suburban towns.

00:45:16.050 --> 00:45:21.050
But what I realized on this walk was
that between these towns are fields and

00:45:21.060 --> 00:45:25.430
little rivers and bits of woodland and
stuff, which I'd never noticed before.

00:45:25.460 --> 00:45:29.000
Cause in the car, you just zoom
from one town to the next and.

00:45:29.135 --> 00:45:32.915
I hadn't seen these things because
I'd not been looking for them.

00:45:33.295 --> 00:45:37.865
And they, that made me realize that there
was much more nature and wildness, even

00:45:37.865 --> 00:45:42.865
in a fairly built up place like Southeast
of England than I'd ever realized before.

00:45:42.895 --> 00:45:47.695
And that then got me, uh, Into
the idea of, wow, I can find

00:45:47.885 --> 00:45:52.065
rivers to swim in or hills to camp
in or, or woods to go running.

00:45:52.065 --> 00:45:53.905
And I can find these everywhere.

00:45:53.945 --> 00:45:59.425
I really don't need to go all the
way to, um, Alberta to, to find

00:45:59.425 --> 00:46:01.635
a bit of peace and wilderness.

00:46:02.995 --> 00:46:04.805
Travis Bader: Now there's always
going to be those that are risk

00:46:04.805 --> 00:46:09.235
adverse, or those who don't want to
go into the wild because they figure

00:46:09.235 --> 00:46:10.425
there's going to be a bear there.

00:46:10.435 --> 00:46:12.505
They don't want to swim in
the ocean because they figured

00:46:12.505 --> 00:46:13.795
there'll be a shark in there.

00:46:14.305 --> 00:46:17.705
Maybe they live in an area where sharks
or bears are around, but even if they

00:46:17.705 --> 00:46:21.785
are, the odds are really in their favor
that they're going to be just fine.

00:46:22.495 --> 00:46:27.205
Um, do you find that that
is an obstacle for people?

00:46:27.215 --> 00:46:31.245
Like, and it's particularly in a micro
adventure because all of a sudden they're

00:46:31.675 --> 00:46:36.325
unknown or that the scary thing might
be, might be other people might be.

00:46:36.835 --> 00:46:37.895
urban dangers.

00:46:38.025 --> 00:46:41.115
Is that something that you've encountered
or an objection you've heard from people?

00:46:42.295 --> 00:46:45.175
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, that's
an absolutely enormous one.

00:46:45.235 --> 00:46:51.515
Um, and what, what I think people
tend to neglect in their thinkings.

00:46:51.525 --> 00:46:57.585
They worry, Oh, if I go out and, uh, swim
in this river, then a shark might eat me.

00:46:57.615 --> 00:46:58.565
And that would be really bad.

00:46:58.665 --> 00:46:59.785
And they, and they worry about that.

00:47:00.085 --> 00:47:04.165
But people don't pause to think
that if I don't swim in that river,

00:47:04.185 --> 00:47:05.725
then I will miss out on that.

00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:10.630
joyful experience of having swum
in the river and my life will be

00:47:10.630 --> 00:47:12.900
slightly diminished because of that.

00:47:12.910 --> 00:47:16.740
So people don't seem to, and to me
that seems like a really big risk.

00:47:16.940 --> 00:47:20.420
That, I mean, that's really risking
my life that it's, I'm making my life

00:47:20.430 --> 00:47:22.190
worse by not swimming in that river.

00:47:22.190 --> 00:47:25.360
And what a tragedy that is because
I've got my death in my calendar, so I

00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:27.140
better get on and swim in that river.

00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:29.370
So I think, I think there
is that aspect to it.

00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:33.480
Um, but I think though, also to
be fair to, to be maybe kinder

00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:38.365
to people, there's um, there's an
a nervousness about the unknown.

00:47:38.485 --> 00:47:44.655
And I think that I sometimes downplay that
because I've been lucky enough to have

00:47:44.975 --> 00:47:51.915
spent many years actively pursuing the
unknown and sort of choosing uncertainty.

00:47:52.155 --> 00:47:54.245
And I didn't find that easy at first.

00:47:54.245 --> 00:47:58.125
I was often very nervous and worried,
but, uh, but then I felt great when I had.

00:47:58.350 --> 00:48:00.270
done that pushed myself to do that.

00:48:00.290 --> 00:48:03.540
And I think like any sort of exercise,
you flex the muscle and it grows.

00:48:03.560 --> 00:48:07.730
So, so I do now have quite a lot of
confidence that I quite happily land in

00:48:07.730 --> 00:48:11.640
any country in the world or wandering to
any wood and I have an interesting time.

00:48:11.640 --> 00:48:13.180
So I've got the habit of that.

00:48:13.190 --> 00:48:16.380
So what I would encourage people
who sort of like the idea,

00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:17.600
but have too many negative.

00:48:18.590 --> 00:48:21.510
worries is to just think
of a smaller option.

00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:26.370
So you don't want to go sleep on that hill
for the night because it's a bit scary.

00:48:26.370 --> 00:48:28.330
So, okay, don't just do nothing.

00:48:28.500 --> 00:48:29.260
Shrink it down.

00:48:29.270 --> 00:48:33.420
Maybe sleep in your backyard for the
night, which sounds kind of silly.

00:48:33.620 --> 00:48:37.230
But I used to love doing that when I
was a child, just sleeping outside.

00:48:37.550 --> 00:48:42.170
And you know, I've done it now as
an adult and I feel a bit silly just

00:48:42.230 --> 00:48:46.200
taking my bedding out from my house
and lying down in my, in my backyard.

00:48:46.210 --> 00:48:49.820
It feels a bit silly, but actually once
you're there, you know, you see the

00:48:49.830 --> 00:48:53.940
stars, you can hear the birds in the
trees and the wind blowing and things.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.490
And in many ways you're getting,
let's say, 80 percent of the benefits

00:48:58.490 --> 00:49:01.920
of a wilderness camping experience,
but only having you had to go two

00:49:01.930 --> 00:49:04.780
meters from your front door with the
benefit that if it rains, you can

00:49:04.780 --> 00:49:06.170
just go inside and go back to bed.

00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:08.130
So the good, so then you do that.

00:49:08.140 --> 00:49:08.880
Someone does that.

00:49:08.890 --> 00:49:10.050
They'll think, Oh, that was good.

00:49:10.330 --> 00:49:11.210
I enjoyed that.

00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:15.110
It's worth me being a bit bolder to
try something a bit braver next time.

00:49:15.110 --> 00:49:19.240
So I think if something seems too
daunting and difficult rather than doing

00:49:19.240 --> 00:49:23.410
nothing, just try and find a smaller,
shorter, simpler option until you can

00:49:23.630 --> 00:49:26.040
overcome your internal worries about it.

00:49:26.975 --> 00:49:27.675
Travis Bader: That's brilliant.

00:49:28.455 --> 00:49:34.535
You know, I got to imagine that I'm trying
to put myself into your mental headspace

00:49:34.595 --> 00:49:36.275
prior to cycling around the world.

00:49:36.305 --> 00:49:38.585
I'm trying to put myself in
your mental headspace prior

00:49:38.585 --> 00:49:40.295
to rowing across the Atlantic.

00:49:40.555 --> 00:49:47.375
I would think that the, uh, trepidation
of rowing across the Atlantic would be

00:49:47.385 --> 00:49:51.675
higher than the trepidation of embarking
on a cycling trip across the world.

00:49:51.695 --> 00:49:53.385
Is that, is that fair?

00:49:53.385 --> 00:49:57.545
Or would you say that there's
maybe equal, but different, uh, um.

00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:00.440
Thoughts going through your head.

00:50:01.950 --> 00:50:02.160
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

00:50:02.170 --> 00:50:09.080
I would say that very, very different
feelings that really, so my, my

00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:13.050
worries about going around the world
were really about getting murdered by

00:50:13.070 --> 00:50:16.680
horrible, scary foreigners, because I'd
learned from reading, from reading the

00:50:16.680 --> 00:50:18.670
newspapers and watching the TV news.

00:50:18.670 --> 00:50:22.310
I knew that foreigners and all these other
countries were horrible, scary people.

00:50:22.390 --> 00:50:25.400
So that was my, that was my worry, really.

00:50:25.695 --> 00:50:26.955
Before I started cycling.

00:50:26.955 --> 00:50:30.675
And then of course, once I actually
started visiting these foreign countries,

00:50:30.675 --> 00:50:33.945
I realized that everyone was just nice
and normal, like they were back home.

00:50:33.945 --> 00:50:35.555
And what on earth was all the fuss about?

00:50:35.555 --> 00:50:40.925
So my worries about, um, cycling around
the world were very much premeditated.

00:50:42.195 --> 00:50:45.025
No, not what they were done
before the, before the trip.

00:50:45.105 --> 00:50:46.925
And they were totally and utterly wrong.

00:50:47.255 --> 00:50:52.205
Um, my fears about rowing the Atlantic
were more about, uh, falling off the

00:50:52.215 --> 00:50:57.695
boat in the night and drowning or
getting capsizing in a huge storm and

00:50:57.695 --> 00:50:59.395
falling off the boat and drowning.

00:50:59.645 --> 00:51:05.015
And, and, and that then led
onto the notion of perceived

00:51:05.025 --> 00:51:07.645
dangers versus actual dangers.

00:51:07.825 --> 00:51:10.445
Because the reality is when you're
rowing across the Atlantic, as long

00:51:10.445 --> 00:51:13.875
as you keep your safety harness
on and you keep clipped onto the

00:51:13.875 --> 00:51:16.015
safety line, you're pretty safe.

00:51:16.235 --> 00:51:19.055
You know, you're not going to
fall off, off the boat and drown.

00:51:19.115 --> 00:51:22.035
And then if you just sat in the boat
for a few months, you would drift

00:51:22.035 --> 00:51:23.385
across the ocean to the other side.

00:51:23.385 --> 00:51:28.825
So The perceived risks were high, but
the actual dangers were quite low.

00:51:28.875 --> 00:51:30.525
And I think that's a
sign of a good adventure.

00:51:30.565 --> 00:51:33.365
Something that gets you worried
and nervous, but actually, if

00:51:33.915 --> 00:51:36.885
you plan it and do it properly,
it's actually quite a safe thing.

00:51:36.895 --> 00:51:40.275
Because adventurous people love
being alive, so you don't want to do

00:51:40.425 --> 00:51:41.955
something reckless and stupid and die.

00:51:41.985 --> 00:51:46.419
So, um, uh, yeah, they were very
different things I was worried about.

00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:50.360
Travis Bader: See, I would
find, and this is perfect segue

00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:51.560
into where I'm going with this.

00:51:51.560 --> 00:51:54.400
And you probably, uh, saw where
I was going with that to begin

00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:55.930
with, but you know, I would find.

00:51:56.725 --> 00:52:02.445
Like at a young age, I would look at
these rivers and look at the white water.

00:52:02.445 --> 00:52:03.705
And man, that's kind of scary.

00:52:03.705 --> 00:52:05.055
And how can someone go through that?

00:52:05.055 --> 00:52:09.105
But, you know, maybe I'll just go on
the real side of the water and I'll try

00:52:09.105 --> 00:52:11.495
swimming down beside the, the white water.

00:52:11.495 --> 00:52:15.065
And I did that and maybe I'll put a little
inflatable boat in and I'll go down.

00:52:15.065 --> 00:52:16.105
Hey, that wasn't too bad.

00:52:16.135 --> 00:52:17.745
Maybe I'll roll it out into the center.

00:52:18.185 --> 00:52:20.115
All of a sudden, I'm getting
a little bit more comfortable,

00:52:20.115 --> 00:52:21.215
a little bit more comfortable.

00:52:22.055 --> 00:52:27.095
I ended up, uh, rafting most of the,
uh, the major navigable rivers around

00:52:27.095 --> 00:52:31.495
here, uh, ended up purchasing a
whitewater raft, a commercial one after

00:52:31.495 --> 00:52:33.185
almost drowning a couple of times.

00:52:33.245 --> 00:52:37.785
Uh, prior to that, it was a 20
Canadian tire, which is an outdoor

00:52:37.785 --> 00:52:43.415
story all across chain store over
here and, uh, no life jacket.

00:52:43.465 --> 00:52:48.410
Maybe I had a few beers in a backpack
tied to it and, uh, Then it was a World

00:52:48.410 --> 00:52:53.250
War II inflatable that, uh, purchased at
a, at a gun show that we ended up having

00:52:53.250 --> 00:52:54.760
to make, we called it a shower cap.

00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:57.120
So that, uh, cause we
ripped the bottom out of it.

00:52:57.130 --> 00:53:01.800
And so we had a bit of a bucket boat,
but always progressing up and up.

00:53:02.100 --> 00:53:06.230
But there's this feeling prior to
going in that I would have even going

00:53:06.230 --> 00:53:10.540
into the, uh, side of the water when
I was, cause I was never a great

00:53:10.540 --> 00:53:12.370
swimmer, which I've learned to overcome.

00:53:14.660 --> 00:53:19.230
When I just kind of swam or floated
down the side, there's those nerves.

00:53:19.270 --> 00:53:22.180
Then when I started going out into the
bigger white water or start swimming

00:53:22.180 --> 00:53:25.600
through that, there's those nerves and
eventually you get more used to it.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:31.520
So I guess this whole roundabout
question statement is, do you

00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:33.520
still get that on micro adventures?

00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:37.380
Alastair Humphreys: No, not really.

00:53:37.390 --> 00:53:43.950
So, micro, I love micro adventures,
uh, but this, and they, they act as

00:53:43.950 --> 00:53:49.310
a substitute for a lot of adventurous
type stuff in my life, but no, they

00:53:49.310 --> 00:53:51.270
don't, they, they don't do that.

00:53:51.575 --> 00:53:55.825
for me so that I don't get that
side of the adventuring from

00:53:55.825 --> 00:53:57.535
doing the small local things.

00:53:57.535 --> 00:54:01.105
But when an interesting, um,
well, maybe interesting, you

00:54:01.105 --> 00:54:02.315
can decide this is interesting.

00:54:02.495 --> 00:54:06.015
I realized that over, overdoing
lots of expedition things, you

00:54:06.015 --> 00:54:07.355
start to become comfortable with it.

00:54:07.355 --> 00:54:08.895
You start to become competent.

00:54:09.125 --> 00:54:10.905
You realize you're
probably going to see you.

00:54:10.905 --> 00:54:14.085
If you do things sensibly, you're going
to get from A to B and you'll succeed.

00:54:14.405 --> 00:54:17.930
And I started to realize that perhaps
in my own way, These adventures

00:54:17.930 --> 00:54:20.570
were actually not that adventurous.

00:54:20.570 --> 00:54:24.970
They were almost just me in my comfort
zone, just sticking to what I'm good at

00:54:25.500 --> 00:54:30.560
and maybe to get back to that fear and
adrenaline and the uncertainty I needed

00:54:30.560 --> 00:54:32.780
to really look differently at adventure.

00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.650
So I, um, I decided to retrace the,
one of my favorite books, a book from

00:54:37.650 --> 00:54:41.690
the 1930s about this young British guy
who walks through Spain playing his

00:54:41.690 --> 00:54:43.370
violin to earn money along the way.

00:54:43.580 --> 00:54:47.330
I can't play the violin at all, but I
decided this is what I'm going to do.

00:54:47.645 --> 00:54:49.365
I had six months of violin lessons.

00:54:49.405 --> 00:54:51.675
I sounded like a strangled cat.

00:54:51.755 --> 00:54:55.185
It was horrible, but I spent a
month walking through Spain with

00:54:55.185 --> 00:54:59.605
no money, no credit card and only
the violin to earn me some money.

00:54:59.865 --> 00:55:03.225
And I personally found standing up
in little village plazas, little

00:55:03.225 --> 00:55:08.295
squares to play the violin absolutely
terrifying, at least as terrifying

00:55:08.465 --> 00:55:09.885
as rowing the Atlantic ocean.

00:55:09.925 --> 00:55:14.845
But, um, but it was a different way of
trying to get that uncertainty and fear.

00:55:14.875 --> 00:55:16.645
And, and I think, I think a good.

00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:20.910
Example of how we can all
address what adventurous living

00:55:20.910 --> 00:55:22.390
means in quite different ways.

00:55:23.530 --> 00:55:24.850
Travis Bader: I really like that example.

00:55:25.245 --> 00:55:27.005
You know, and you're right.

00:55:27.095 --> 00:55:31.215
I mean, you start setting these goals
and these adventures and the, you

00:55:31.215 --> 00:55:32.765
find yourself in your comfort zone.

00:55:32.825 --> 00:55:35.705
People would say, wow, you're
rafting these big rivers.

00:55:35.705 --> 00:55:38.205
Isn't that an adrenaline exercise?

00:55:39.455 --> 00:55:42.045
No, no, it's actually
really, really relaxing.

00:55:42.045 --> 00:55:44.805
And it's really, it's really
the opposite of adrenaline.

00:55:44.985 --> 00:55:47.815
Every once in a while, you find
yourself in a bit of a predicament and

00:55:47.815 --> 00:55:51.615
there might be a short stint of, uh,
okay, we need some action quick here.

00:55:52.825 --> 00:55:59.445
But no, it's extremely relaxing, but
in that same breath, um, I also found I

00:55:59.445 --> 00:56:06.195
was getting complacent as I went out and
kept pushing myself and I would push that

00:56:06.195 --> 00:56:09.575
whole risk reward envelope a bit more.

00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:11.940
Just so I could kind of get that feeling.

00:56:12.040 --> 00:56:13.650
Is that something that you've experienced?

00:56:15.070 --> 00:56:18.690
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely, and
it is actually one of the chief reasons

00:56:18.700 --> 00:56:25.900
why I decided to reconsider Adventure
Adventure, to think about hey, perhaps

00:56:25.910 --> 00:56:30.440
playing the violin is an adventure, or
perhaps encouraging people to sleep on a

00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:35.450
hill, that's adventure because The, the,
uh, the line you're pursuing there just

00:56:35.490 --> 00:56:37.460
eventually is going to lead to disaster.

00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:39.680
If you keep just pushing and pushing
and pushing, eventually you're going

00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:43.370
to go jump off a higher and higher
cliff until eventually it goes wrong.

00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:47.140
So, uh, I didn't want to just be
heading down that route and I prefer

00:56:47.140 --> 00:56:50.970
to just try and start trying to
think a bit more laterally about the

00:56:50.970 --> 00:56:52.490
way I was going to go about things.

00:56:53.415 --> 00:56:57.635
Travis Bader: So one question I've
asked myself is at what point am I

00:56:57.655 --> 00:57:02.435
being smart and at what point am I
being kind of chicken and not living?

00:57:02.495 --> 00:57:04.815
That's always that little
thing that I'm kind of, uh.

00:57:05.285 --> 00:57:08.785
Uh, juggling with like, I
want to push, I want to live.

00:57:08.815 --> 00:57:10.905
You want to do these exciting things.

00:57:11.955 --> 00:57:12.955
No, I've got a family.

00:57:12.955 --> 00:57:14.045
I've got a couple of kids.

00:57:14.045 --> 00:57:14.945
They depend on me.

00:57:14.985 --> 00:57:16.845
I got to make sure I do
things in a smart way.

00:57:16.845 --> 00:57:19.545
So where is that balance
in the same breath?

00:57:19.545 --> 00:57:23.185
I don't want to be living a life
that's risk adverse and teaching

00:57:23.185 --> 00:57:25.335
my children to be risk adverse.

00:57:25.355 --> 00:57:28.185
Cause I think that's the worst thing
that I could possibly do for them.

00:57:29.245 --> 00:57:30.715
Is that something that you juggle with?

00:57:32.385 --> 00:57:33.195
Alastair Humphreys: Absolutely.

00:57:33.405 --> 00:57:37.155
And there's a very fine
line between recklessness.

00:57:37.555 --> 00:57:39.345
And bravery, very fine line.

00:57:39.525 --> 00:57:43.225
The trouble is that you don't know where
the line is until you've gone across it.

00:57:43.325 --> 00:57:48.195
And, uh, yeah, increasingly, again,
perhaps as I'm just becoming an old

00:57:48.195 --> 00:57:54.215
man, I just felt that that pushing
that line eventually was just going

00:57:54.215 --> 00:57:56.815
to lead to something bad happening.

00:57:56.835 --> 00:58:02.005
And, and, and the rewards for
pushing that line diminish as well.

00:58:02.005 --> 00:58:07.900
And, and, and also I've done it quite
a few times, perhaps it might be more

00:58:07.900 --> 00:58:11.990
interesting to have a look at different
ways of going about things, so yeah,

00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:18.250
step, consciously stepping away from that
route was a, has been a conscious choice.

00:58:18.835 --> 00:58:20.065
Travis Bader: Have you had close calls?

00:58:22.795 --> 00:58:26.155
Alastair Humphreys: Uh, not, not really.

00:58:26.185 --> 00:58:27.655
And not many, to be honest.

00:58:28.075 --> 00:58:35.425
Um, so, um, I got mugged at gunpoint
in Siberia, but then the guy, once I'd

00:58:35.425 --> 00:58:37.625
given him my wallet, uh, I was lost.

00:58:37.635 --> 00:58:40.365
So I then got out my map and
he helped me navigate back

00:58:40.465 --> 00:58:41.625
to where I was wanting to go.

00:58:41.625 --> 00:58:44.005
So there's some, there's
some good in good.

00:58:44.545 --> 00:58:45.835
Good sides in everyone.

00:58:46.155 --> 00:58:47.505
Um, and,

00:58:47.505 --> 00:58:49.045
Travis Bader: uh, sorry, can you say that?

00:58:49.205 --> 00:58:50.065
Can you say that one again?

00:58:50.065 --> 00:58:53.795
You were mugged at gunpoint
and the same guy helped you?

00:58:55.025 --> 00:58:55.265
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

00:58:55.265 --> 00:58:58.925
So I was in, uh, Siberia in the,
in the winter time on my bike.

00:58:58.925 --> 00:58:59.865
It was very cold.

00:58:59.895 --> 00:59:04.835
It was dark, minus 40 degrees
and, uh, um, a car stopped.

00:59:05.235 --> 00:59:09.055
Um, a very, um, a couple
of very drunk guys got out.

00:59:09.055 --> 00:59:11.295
One of them's waving his gun around.

00:59:11.895 --> 00:59:13.125
Give me your money, give me your money.

00:59:13.135 --> 00:59:15.015
So of course you give them some money.

00:59:15.325 --> 00:59:21.115
I had a little decoy wallet for exactly
this circumstance with a little bit

00:59:21.115 --> 00:59:23.575
of money and just to appease them.

00:59:23.795 --> 00:59:24.505
And he's like, Oh, great.

00:59:24.505 --> 00:59:25.095
I've got your money.

00:59:25.115 --> 00:59:26.035
And then I'm like, Oh, excuse me.

00:59:26.035 --> 00:59:29.249
While, uh, while, while you're
taking my wallet, can you, um.

00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:30.220
Give me some direction.

00:59:30.220 --> 00:59:32.950
So I got the map out and then
the Russian people, when I cycled

00:59:32.950 --> 00:59:35.330
through Russia were so kind
generally that he was like, Oh yeah.

00:59:35.330 --> 00:59:37.780
And he's helped with the
navigation and they got into the

00:59:37.780 --> 00:59:39.580
car and drove off with my wallet.

00:59:39.580 --> 00:59:44.470
So, um, yeah, I found that a very
interesting human experience.

00:59:45.535 --> 00:59:47.525
Travis Bader: That, yeah, that is funny.

00:59:47.525 --> 00:59:51.165
I think you're going to see,
you're going to give another

00:59:51.165 --> 00:59:53.005
example there before I cut you off.

00:59:54.045 --> 00:59:57.025
Alastair Humphreys: Well, the other
example is, is more, um, very much

00:59:57.025 --> 01:00:00.575
from your sort of world, really,
when I was, um, crossing Iceland

01:00:00.595 --> 01:00:05.345
by packraft and there was a stretch
of whitewater rapids, which looked,

01:00:05.945 --> 01:00:07.925
definitely looked beyond my skill level.

01:00:07.925 --> 01:00:10.465
I was with a friend at the
time, Canadian guy, actually.

01:00:10.505 --> 01:00:10.895
And we were.

01:00:11.220 --> 01:00:13.210
Wrecking the room, walking up and down.

01:00:13.470 --> 01:00:17.000
And we had kind of had that gut
feeling of, Hmm, this is beyond this.

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:17.800
We shouldn't do it.

01:00:18.090 --> 01:00:21.730
And then I sort of uttered the immortal
words of think how great this will

01:00:21.730 --> 01:00:27.500
look on YouTube, which then got, which
then got my vanity and my ego going.

01:00:27.740 --> 01:00:29.580
And so I decided to packraft it.

01:00:29.590 --> 01:00:33.280
The moment I got into the
current, I realized I was totally,

01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:34.890
totally out of my skill level.

01:00:35.300 --> 01:00:38.310
And I flipped and it was
terrifying and absolutely horrific.

01:00:38.510 --> 01:00:41.840
I managed to get to the shore and
then I was frantically blowing on

01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:44.740
my little whistle to stop Chris
coming down the river afterwards.

01:00:45.110 --> 01:00:47.310
And I learned, I learned
an important lesson.

01:00:47.310 --> 01:00:51.510
Then I also had forgotten to press go
on the camera, so I didn't even get it

01:00:51.900 --> 01:00:57.000
on YouTube, but it proved to me a really
important lesson that I've used many

01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:02.750
times since, which is, would I do this
thing if nobody else found out about it?

01:01:03.315 --> 01:01:06.885
I, am I doing this adventure
for myself or am I doing it

01:01:07.265 --> 01:01:09.605
to show off later on YouTube?

01:01:09.615 --> 01:01:14.675
So again, is this an intrinsic thing
driven by me or is it a external

01:01:14.675 --> 01:01:16.295
sort of validation that I'm after?

01:01:16.295 --> 01:01:18.945
So yeah, don't do stuff just
to look good on YouTube.

01:01:19.635 --> 01:01:21.035
Travis Bader: Do it for the gram, right?

01:01:21.630 --> 01:01:23.390
No, that's really good advice.

01:01:23.990 --> 01:01:26.220
Did you know in your gut
before going through there

01:01:26.220 --> 01:01:27.400
that this wasn't a good idea?

01:01:29.060 --> 01:01:30.830
Alastair Humphreys: Yes,
yes, I definitely did.

01:01:30.870 --> 01:01:35.090
And then I certainly did within about five
seconds of paddling out into the current.

01:01:35.220 --> 01:01:41.170
Um, yeah, it was just way,
way, I was completely, yeah.

01:01:41.200 --> 01:01:43.890
And then as you will well know, once
you're out in the middle of the current.

01:01:44.405 --> 01:01:44.915
You're in it.

01:01:44.915 --> 01:01:46.075
You kind of got to go for it.

01:01:46.075 --> 01:01:46.465
Yeah.

01:01:47.335 --> 01:01:51.725
Travis Bader: You know, I, uh, I remember
I had a, uh, this is prior to getting

01:01:51.725 --> 01:01:55.705
the commercial whitewater raft and
there is a local river around here.

01:01:55.705 --> 01:01:58.935
That's that's run commercially,
but the commercial guys weren't

01:01:58.935 --> 01:02:01.565
running it at this point because
I guess it was a bit too rough.

01:02:01.955 --> 01:02:06.055
And I was doing promotions
for a, uh, Corona beer company

01:02:06.055 --> 01:02:07.305
that brought in Corona beer.

01:02:07.305 --> 01:02:08.865
So had this.

01:02:09.190 --> 01:02:13.090
Jeep all deckled out and Corona stuff
and they give you a digital camera

01:02:13.090 --> 01:02:17.180
and which is brand new kind of stuff
at the time and they were given away

01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:22.000
this, uh, inflatable boat all deckled
out with Corona stuff on there.

01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:26.460
And I thought maybe I'll just borrow
this boat and I'll take it down.

01:02:26.530 --> 01:02:30.700
The river and anyways, we
drive out to the river.

01:02:30.700 --> 01:02:31.670
I'm there with a buddy of mine.

01:02:31.670 --> 01:02:33.070
He's got the digital camera.

01:02:33.640 --> 01:02:36.400
Um, he looks, he says, I'm not doing this.

01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:38.900
This is, this is too, it's too rough.

01:02:38.940 --> 01:02:40.790
The water is going too fast.

01:02:41.290 --> 01:02:44.450
And, uh, there's kayakers that came
in that we're looking at and they're

01:02:44.450 --> 01:02:45.980
like, yeah, no, we're not doing this.

01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:47.980
And I look at over at my buddy.

01:02:47.980 --> 01:02:49.160
I'm like, are you kidding me?

01:02:49.330 --> 01:02:50.950
This is the safest I've ever seen it.

01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:55.320
Because I started getting of this
mindset that, Like quite often when

01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:57.170
it looks really bad, it isn't bad.

01:02:57.240 --> 01:02:59.620
And it's these things that don't
look bad are the things that you

01:02:59.620 --> 01:03:01.300
kind of got to watch out for.

01:03:01.300 --> 01:03:03.880
Like when you see the water
bubbling up and down and over,

01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:08.270
generally you'll be like a cork
and you can float over all of that.

01:03:08.610 --> 01:03:12.880
It's strainers and, um, recircs
and these sorts of things that

01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:14.280
you kind of have to watch out for.

01:03:14.600 --> 01:03:15.210
Anyways.

01:03:15.860 --> 01:03:20.270
I said, tell you what I'm going to
put in, in the roughest area of this.

01:03:20.300 --> 01:03:22.250
I'm going to show you how safe this is.

01:03:22.660 --> 01:03:26.330
And then once I've convinced you of
this, we'll, we'll just go down the

01:03:26.330 --> 01:03:29.190
river in, in the, in the less rough area.

01:03:29.470 --> 01:03:34.290
Anyways, I'm walking down the, the side,
the riverside to get into the river.

01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:35.180
He's got the camera.

01:03:35.180 --> 01:03:36.870
He's going to take pictures
all the way through.

01:03:36.870 --> 01:03:38.750
And for whatever reason,
like, you know, I was.

01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:39.960
Raised Catholic.

01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:42.870
I wouldn't say I'm a religious guy,
but for whatever reason, I do a sign

01:03:42.870 --> 01:03:46.270
of the cross before getting into
the, uh, into the river and I think

01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:50.680
deep down, I knew in my head that
what I was doing was stupid, but you

01:03:50.680 --> 01:03:53.290
know, young, dumb ego, all the rest.

01:03:53.290 --> 01:03:57.080
And so I look at it, I, I scout
my line that I'm going to take.

01:03:57.080 --> 01:04:00.640
I got these goofy little oars
on, on this, uh, inflatable

01:04:00.650 --> 01:04:02.500
boat and get them all set up.

01:04:02.540 --> 01:04:07.010
I've actually got a life jacket
on now because, uh, another.

01:04:07.325 --> 01:04:09.175
Company had given me a life jacket.

01:04:09.185 --> 01:04:12.245
We used to put in where the commercial
guys put in and we'd try and follow

01:04:12.245 --> 01:04:14.025
them so we could see the safe way to go.

01:04:14.025 --> 01:04:17.955
And maybe they're safety kayakers
would take pity if we, if we got

01:04:17.955 --> 01:04:19.395
into trouble and they'd rescue us.

01:04:19.605 --> 01:04:23.475
Anyways, I put in same
as you way too fast.

01:04:23.545 --> 01:04:24.355
It was cold.

01:04:24.385 --> 01:04:29.925
The boat deflates a bit, um, immediately
the paddles are not worth anything

01:04:30.055 --> 01:04:32.935
and I'm hands and feet trying to
paddle over to get on my line.

01:04:33.885 --> 01:04:37.815
I don't make it to my line, I'm sucked
into a re circ, then I'm sucked into

01:04:37.815 --> 01:04:41.385
a bigger re circ afterwards, I end
up losing the boat, I almost lost

01:04:41.395 --> 01:04:46.375
my life, I remember I'm passing out
I guess, cause you're losing oxygen

01:04:46.375 --> 01:04:49.145
was your, they say don't panic.

01:04:49.300 --> 01:04:50.880
I didn't feel like I was panicking.

01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:55.460
I just felt like I was working as
hard as I could to get up and out.

01:04:55.490 --> 01:04:58.480
I'm making every letter of the
alphabet, trying to touch some

01:04:58.490 --> 01:05:02.170
green water to pull me out because
the white water is so aerated.

01:05:02.680 --> 01:05:05.360
Anyways, my buddy's standing
on the rock, taking pictures.

01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:07.730
He's like, I didn't know what to do.

01:05:07.950 --> 01:05:09.400
I couldn't jump in and help you.

01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:10.340
There's nothing I could do.

01:05:10.340 --> 01:05:13.870
The only thing going through my head was
if you don't make it on this one, the

01:05:13.910 --> 01:05:17.250
camera's going in the river too, because I
don't want to be the guy who took pictures

01:05:17.250 --> 01:05:19.300
of his buddy drowning on the river.

01:05:19.620 --> 01:05:22.780
Anyways, I, uh, ended up getting spit out.

01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:26.140
I was going to swim over to the
other side where the, my line was

01:05:26.140 --> 01:05:30.200
and where my head was, and I looked
over to my left and I said, closer,

01:05:30.210 --> 01:05:31.650
I'm going to swim as hard as I can.

01:05:31.650 --> 01:05:34.430
I won't give up until I get to shore.

01:05:35.100 --> 01:05:39.820
And despite all of that, the second that
my body got into an area where it was.

01:05:40.730 --> 01:05:44.630
Calmer and I wasn't really
affected by the flow of the river.

01:05:45.100 --> 01:05:47.640
It collapsed on my buddy, drags
me out and I'm throwing up

01:05:47.640 --> 01:05:49.030
water and coughing out water.

01:05:49.070 --> 01:05:51.620
But, uh, yeah, funny, funny.

01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:52.910
Um, yeah.

01:05:52.910 --> 01:05:53.650
How that works.

01:05:55.030 --> 01:05:55.350
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

01:05:55.640 --> 01:05:57.910
I think there's a good reason
that women live longer than men.

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.100
They're less stupid.

01:06:01.185 --> 01:06:01.705
Travis Bader: That's it.

01:06:01.915 --> 01:06:03.225
And that's all it is.

01:06:03.415 --> 01:06:05.185
And again, it was ego.

01:06:05.195 --> 01:06:06.345
We didn't have Instagram.

01:06:06.355 --> 01:06:10.625
We didn't have YouTube at the time,
but, uh, but we had a digital camera and

01:06:10.675 --> 01:06:12.115
these pictures are going to look good.

01:06:14.315 --> 01:06:19.385
Oh, well, um, is there anything else
that we should be talking about, about

01:06:19.385 --> 01:06:21.535
your new book, about micro adventures?

01:06:21.535 --> 01:06:23.045
Is there anything that we should be.

01:06:23.375 --> 01:06:24.865
Uh, letting people know about that.

01:06:24.865 --> 01:06:25.785
We haven't already.

01:06:26.955 --> 01:06:31.235
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, I guess, I guess
I'd like to, um, just explain a bit how

01:06:31.235 --> 01:06:35.705
I went from these massive, big global
adventures onto small micro adventures,

01:06:35.705 --> 01:06:40.275
trying to encourage people to just get out
at the weekend to what I've been spending

01:06:40.275 --> 01:06:42.185
the last year doing, which is going even.

01:06:42.515 --> 01:06:45.875
Smaller and more local than ever
to, I committed to trying to

01:06:45.885 --> 01:06:50.585
spend just one year on the small
map that I live on in Britain.

01:06:50.605 --> 01:06:52.755
We've got these little,
these sort of hiking maps.

01:06:52.935 --> 01:06:56.255
Um, they, they, um, measure
about 20 kilometers by 20

01:06:56.265 --> 01:06:58.065
kilometers, a really small area.

01:06:58.315 --> 01:07:01.865
And I decided to go out once
a week to explore a single

01:07:01.965 --> 01:07:03.395
one kilometer grid square.

01:07:03.395 --> 01:07:08.325
So one kilometer by one kilometer, try and
see everything in that square once a week.

01:07:09.025 --> 01:07:09.715
What would happen?

01:07:09.775 --> 01:07:12.975
And I was a bit worried that I might
be a bit bored doing it and a bit

01:07:12.975 --> 01:07:18.255
claustrophobic But I soon realized that
there was just once you slow down and

01:07:18.255 --> 01:07:24.325
pay attention and be curious Decide
consciously decide that I'm going

01:07:24.325 --> 01:07:29.255
to be interested in everything then
suddenly everything becomes interesting

01:07:29.325 --> 01:07:33.705
and What I thought was going to be
quite a boring year turned into one

01:07:33.705 --> 01:07:39.855
of the most fascinating Uh, journeys
and learning experiences of my life.

01:07:39.855 --> 01:07:43.585
So I'm on a big mission at the moment
to get everyone to just buy the

01:07:43.585 --> 01:07:47.595
local map for where they live and
go out and find what adventure and

01:07:47.605 --> 01:07:51.425
wildness is right on your doorstep
within a few miles of where you live.

01:07:51.425 --> 01:07:53.955
It's been a really eye opening experience.

01:07:55.315 --> 01:07:57.629
Travis Bader: You know, my
wife got me into foraging.

01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:00.180
Um, I wasn't really into it.

01:08:00.190 --> 01:08:02.400
She's loves gardening,
foraging, all the rest.

01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:06.310
And she's like, there's this
guy, he's got a book out.

01:08:06.310 --> 01:08:07.290
He's got a few books out.

01:08:07.300 --> 01:08:09.620
Hank, Sean, we're meeting up with them.

01:08:09.620 --> 01:08:12.800
Actually, we're going to go down to
California, Sierra Nevada mountain range

01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:16.220
and going to do some foraging with them.

01:08:16.355 --> 01:08:21.385
So we went out, we did that and
started really opening my eyes to

01:08:21.425 --> 01:08:24.565
like, we went out in the forest, we're
doing morels, looking at wild onions

01:08:24.565 --> 01:08:27.035
and garlics and we're pine nuts.

01:08:27.035 --> 01:08:31.225
And, and in your head, you're like,
okay, you got to go to these exotic

01:08:31.225 --> 01:08:35.165
places and look at all these cool things
that you can forage, but then when I

01:08:35.175 --> 01:08:36.685
started to become a bit more aware.

01:08:37.195 --> 01:08:41.025
You can make salads out of stuff
you find growing out of your

01:08:41.035 --> 01:08:43.205
sidewalk right by your house.

01:08:43.235 --> 01:08:47.225
And this, this sounds like a very
similar sort of a, uh, an analogy.

01:08:48.305 --> 01:08:53.985
What would, can you walk me through
what a day in adventuring locally,

01:08:53.985 --> 01:08:56.435
that micro local adventure would

01:08:56.435 --> 01:08:56.965
Alastair Humphreys: look like?

01:08:58.285 --> 01:09:02.105
Yeah, so, so I was limited to this
one kilometer by one kilometer.

01:09:02.115 --> 01:09:07.640
And I would try to go and see every
footpath or, um, hiking trail on there

01:09:07.670 --> 01:09:08.990
or some quite often they were towns.

01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:12.570
So then I'd try and cycle down every
single street within this little area.

01:09:12.570 --> 01:09:14.750
But the countryside
ones, it's interesting.

01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:18.800
You mentioned the forager as a sort
of teacher to open your eyes because

01:09:19.150 --> 01:09:24.760
I was doing this on my own, but I used
an app called seek made by iNaturalist.

01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:28.120
And it's one of those apps where you
pointed at a plant and it tells you the

01:09:28.120 --> 01:09:30.480
name of what you're, what you're seeing.

01:09:30.790 --> 01:09:32.860
And then suddenly went, ah,
I learned the name of this.

01:09:33.010 --> 01:09:33.180
thing.

01:09:33.180 --> 01:09:35.110
And then you start to see
it all over the place.

01:09:35.160 --> 01:09:37.120
And I'd come home late and
Google it and realize, Hey,

01:09:37.120 --> 01:09:38.290
you can put that into a salad.

01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:42.740
So exactly like you teach, but
here teaching myself through an

01:09:42.770 --> 01:09:47.890
app was starting to learn about
all this nature around me, which

01:09:47.890 --> 01:09:49.600
I'd spent my entire life ignoring.

01:09:49.610 --> 01:09:52.800
Cause I just thought Britain was
boring and I needed to go to the ends

01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:53.950
of the world to have an adventure.

01:09:53.950 --> 01:09:57.660
So yeah, it was, it was, it was
an exercise in slowing down.

01:09:57.890 --> 01:10:02.010
I try and take lots of photos and
try and take really nice artistic.

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:06.290
photos again, just to make me pay
attention, to notice things, to

01:10:06.300 --> 01:10:07.960
look at things in different ways.

01:10:07.970 --> 01:10:10.880
So, you know, maybe I'd find the
car that had been burned out and

01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:14.100
the police had been put a tape
around like police have been here.

01:10:14.370 --> 01:10:17.970
And I try and take beautiful photos of
stuff like that as well, just to make

01:10:17.970 --> 01:10:20.250
myself be interested in, in everything.

01:10:20.930 --> 01:10:24.290
And the more you become interested in
stuff, the more you find, there's even

01:10:24.290 --> 01:10:25.780
more to learn and even more to learn.

01:10:25.790 --> 01:10:26.590
And suddenly.

01:10:26.795 --> 01:10:31.375
One small kilometre started to
feel absolutely enormous and one

01:10:31.385 --> 01:10:36.925
small map felt way too big for
a single year of exploration.

01:10:37.415 --> 01:10:42.675
So yeah, it was a really interesting
self educational experience, I guess.

01:10:43.525 --> 01:10:45.535
Travis Bader: That approach
sounds like ADHD heaven.

01:10:45.605 --> 01:10:46.885
There's always new things.

01:10:46.895 --> 01:10:48.375
There's always new hobbies.

01:10:48.375 --> 01:10:52.155
There's always new, uh, avenues
that you can start exploring.

01:10:52.405 --> 01:10:54.475
And speaking of apps,
have you tried geocaching?

01:10:55.805 --> 01:10:56.155
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.

01:10:56.475 --> 01:10:58.995
Geocaching is along the same
sort of lines, isn't it?

01:10:58.995 --> 01:11:03.645
Of it, it's just an excuse to go
somewhere you've never been before

01:11:03.655 --> 01:11:05.295
and to pay attention and be curious.

01:11:05.295 --> 01:11:05.985
And then you get excited.

01:11:06.145 --> 01:11:09.145
You find a little plastic tub
with some little bits of rubbish.

01:11:09.145 --> 01:11:10.815
And it's not the reward.

01:11:10.815 --> 01:11:11.795
Isn't that, is it?

01:11:11.805 --> 01:11:12.565
The reward is.

01:11:13.045 --> 01:11:14.215
Going somewhere new.

01:11:14.335 --> 01:11:17.955
Um, and that's a very similar
sort of spirit to, uh, to

01:11:17.955 --> 01:11:19.095
what I was doing with my maps.

01:11:19.105 --> 01:11:21.045
Yeah, I think geocaching is a
brilliant thing for people to

01:11:21.055 --> 01:11:22.375
take their kids to do, isn't it?

01:11:22.375 --> 01:11:24.035
Just to get them out into the outdoors.

01:11:24.440 --> 01:11:25.120
Travis Bader: Oh, totally.

01:11:25.130 --> 01:11:25.300
Yeah.

01:11:25.300 --> 01:11:26.010
It's a lot of fun.

01:11:26.010 --> 01:11:26.670
Maybe you find it.

01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:27.480
Maybe you don't.

01:11:27.490 --> 01:11:31.000
Maybe someone's moved it, but
at the very least you're outside

01:11:31.140 --> 01:11:32.550
or you're in a different area.

01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:35.490
Maybe in a little urban area outside.

01:11:36.250 --> 01:11:38.380
Um, are there other apps that you use?

01:11:38.420 --> 01:11:39.890
You mentioned that Seek app.

01:11:41.290 --> 01:11:42.350
Alastair Humphreys:
Yeah, Seek was brilliant.

01:11:42.360 --> 01:11:44.990
The other one that I found
fantastic is called Merlin.

01:11:45.355 --> 01:11:51.075
And Merlin listens to birdsong and tells
you the name of what you're listening to.

01:11:51.075 --> 01:11:54.455
And I, I always like birdsong,
of course, it's kind of nice to

01:11:54.455 --> 01:11:57.485
hear birds, but suddenly I'm like,
Oh wow, that's a chiff chaff.

01:11:57.495 --> 01:12:00.525
And then I Google it and it's like
a tiny little thing that weighs six

01:12:00.525 --> 01:12:03.645
grams and it's flown all the way
from Africa to be in England, to

01:12:03.645 --> 01:12:05.645
be in this little bush in the park.

01:12:05.935 --> 01:12:06.265
Wow.

01:12:06.435 --> 01:12:07.285
That's incredible.

01:12:07.315 --> 01:12:08.324
I just heard it going chiff chaff.

01:12:09.345 --> 01:12:10.315
Never paid any attention.

01:12:10.315 --> 01:12:13.485
And then now I learned the name of,
I learned the name of this little

01:12:13.485 --> 01:12:15.035
dude and suddenly I care about it.

01:12:15.045 --> 01:12:16.755
So yeah, Merlin has been really good.

01:12:17.475 --> 01:12:18.255
Travis Bader: That's a cool one.

01:12:18.505 --> 01:12:18.705
Yeah.

01:12:18.705 --> 01:12:22.215
Merlin makes me is reminiscent
of that old handheld game.

01:12:22.215 --> 01:12:23.865
I don't know if you
guys ever had that one.

01:12:23.865 --> 01:12:24.125
It's a little.

01:12:24.515 --> 01:12:25.995
It looks like a red telephone.

01:12:26.395 --> 01:12:28.705
My grandparents had one
and he pressed the buttons.

01:12:28.705 --> 01:12:32.975
You can play tic tac toe or all the
different anyways that, uh, Merlin.

01:12:32.985 --> 01:12:33.595
I think we're showing

01:12:33.595 --> 01:12:34.915
Alastair Humphreys: your age now, Travis.

01:12:34.985 --> 01:12:36.795
Travis Bader: Maybe, maybe
I'm getting older here.

01:12:36.795 --> 01:12:40.685
I tell you, um, gray hairs
are starting to come out.

01:12:41.705 --> 01:12:46.975
Well, we'll make sure to get links to, uh,
obviously to your book, to your website.

01:12:47.215 --> 01:12:49.765
Uh, anything else we should be
linking to that we'll throw up in

01:12:49.765 --> 01:12:50.925
the description here for everyone.

01:12:51.990 --> 01:12:52.860
Alastair Humphreys: No,
that would be great.

01:12:52.860 --> 01:12:56.420
So I've just written a book
about spending a year close to

01:12:56.420 --> 01:12:57.640
home that I've called Local.

01:12:57.650 --> 01:13:00.840
So I think, yeah, Local would be, I'd
love it if people would read Local.

01:13:01.140 --> 01:13:04.080
Um, then obviously I've written
Microadventures and I've written books

01:13:04.080 --> 01:13:05.710
about, uh, cycling around the world.

01:13:05.740 --> 01:13:09.470
I've also written books for children,
uh, one about cycling around the world.

01:13:09.510 --> 01:13:13.110
And I turned my story of rowing the
Atlantic into a kid's book called

01:13:13.110 --> 01:13:14.360
The Girl Who Rowed the Ocean.

01:13:14.380 --> 01:13:18.260
Because I think we need more books
about girls having crazy adventures.

01:13:19.105 --> 01:13:20.185
Travis Bader: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

01:13:20.195 --> 01:13:22.415
Cause there's lots of girls out
there that have crazy adventures.

01:13:22.425 --> 01:13:29.035
That's what, you know, I'm watching
your feed and I'm liking how you

01:13:29.035 --> 01:13:32.325
put the reviews up good and bad.

01:13:32.385 --> 01:13:33.985
And I'm finding that not

01:13:34.725 --> 01:13:35.185
Alastair Humphreys: good.

01:13:35.625 --> 01:13:39.625
Jen, I don't really bother with the good
ones, but I, yeah, I put on Instagram.

01:13:39.995 --> 01:13:43.565
I use the hashtag not very
glowing book reviews and I read

01:13:43.565 --> 01:13:45.705
out my one star terrible reviews.

01:13:47.495 --> 01:13:48.985
Travis Bader: It's a
very different approach.

01:13:49.140 --> 01:13:52.880
A very refreshing approach to what
you typically find on social media.

01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:56.410
And you took the same
approach with, uh, podcasting.

01:13:56.430 --> 01:13:59.960
So when I first started this podcasting,
I had no idea what I was doing.

01:14:00.370 --> 01:14:02.200
I'd been on one podcast.

01:14:02.220 --> 01:14:04.350
I listened to one podcast live.

01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:07.450
But aside from that, I've
never listened to a podcast.

01:14:07.450 --> 01:14:08.600
So I got my recorder.

01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:09.610
I got things set up.

01:14:09.610 --> 01:14:10.740
I had a couple of friends.

01:14:10.740 --> 01:14:16.290
We would start recording and I would
edit every, um, every, uh, every, and I

01:14:16.310 --> 01:14:19.520
try and make it clean and professional
and the amount of work and effort that

01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:22.160
I put into it and I found after a while.

01:14:22.175 --> 01:14:27.385
That there not only is that a
heck of a lot of work, but that

01:14:27.445 --> 01:14:30.935
level of perfectionism that you're
trying to put in detracts from the

01:14:30.935 --> 01:14:34.545
realism and from the heart of what
you're trying to put out there.

01:14:34.545 --> 01:14:37.715
And I find the same sort of thing
when you did your podcast, even your

01:14:37.715 --> 01:14:39.145
first one, you're giving your intro.

01:14:40.155 --> 01:14:42.435
And you had to start again
and go through it and say it.

01:14:42.435 --> 01:14:44.185
And he says, you just left it all in.

01:14:44.185 --> 01:14:46.015
I thought that's refreshing.

01:14:46.095 --> 01:14:50.555
Just like when you put the not so
glowing book reviews, that's refreshing.

01:14:50.805 --> 01:14:56.045
Is that something that you find is,
uh, you've had to learn to do, or is

01:14:56.045 --> 01:14:57.265
that just something you've always done?

01:14:59.185 --> 01:15:01.324
Alastair Humphreys: No, it's very.

01:15:02.025 --> 01:15:08.755
much a learned thing to try and be grown
up and brave enough to say to the world,

01:15:08.755 --> 01:15:13.955
Hey, I'm not perfect, or I'm not very
good at this, but I'm trying my best.

01:15:13.955 --> 01:15:18.465
And, um, and weirdly, the more you
admit your weaknesses, the more

01:15:18.465 --> 01:15:20.215
they kind of become superpowers.

01:15:20.225 --> 01:15:23.395
So when I played my violin through
Spain, if you look on YouTube,

01:15:23.775 --> 01:15:26.945
My midsummer morning on YouTube,
you'll see I'm really bad.

01:15:26.945 --> 01:15:28.285
I'm not just being British polite.

01:15:28.315 --> 01:15:35.545
I was terrible, but that weakness,
I'm being brave enough to just say

01:15:35.545 --> 01:15:39.325
to the people of Spain, I'm really
bad, but I'm going to try my best.

01:15:39.525 --> 01:15:41.535
People responded to that
and they gave me money.

01:15:41.565 --> 01:15:43.545
I was sucked, but people
were still giving me money.

01:15:43.545 --> 01:15:46.225
So yeah, just daring yourself
to admit to the world.

01:15:46.470 --> 01:15:47.340
I'm not perfect.

01:15:47.380 --> 01:15:50.440
And then actually sort of
becomes a weird superpower.

01:15:51.380 --> 01:15:52.280
Travis Bader: I like that a lot.

01:15:52.590 --> 01:15:54.100
Do your best every day.

01:15:54.770 --> 01:15:56.100
Don't worry about the blemishes.

01:15:56.120 --> 01:15:57.170
We all got them.

01:15:57.450 --> 01:16:01.000
And in fact, sometimes it's what my
wife would always tell me, and I try

01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:02.250
so hard to make something perfect.

01:16:02.250 --> 01:16:03.310
She's like, perfect.

01:16:03.310 --> 01:16:04.120
Isn't beautiful.

01:16:04.650 --> 01:16:05.360
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, it can be.

01:16:05.450 --> 01:16:09.680
So I should suggest today, um, I
was looking down someone's Instagram

01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:12.560
feed and all the pictures were
so beautiful and they all had

01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:13.820
the same sort of color palette.

01:16:14.360 --> 01:16:16.950
Uh, I just thought, man, this is so.

01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:19.650
Boring, really boring.

01:16:19.750 --> 01:16:23.560
Um, so yeah, I think, um,
yeah, I agree with that.

01:16:23.900 --> 01:16:24.730
Perfect can be a bit

01:16:24.730 --> 01:16:25.070
Travis Bader: boring.

01:16:25.510 --> 01:16:25.780
Yeah.

01:16:25.870 --> 01:16:26.230
Perfect.

01:16:26.230 --> 01:16:27.010
Isn't beautiful.

01:16:27.050 --> 01:16:29.680
Maybe I wonder if she's saying
something about me there.

01:16:32.510 --> 01:16:34.020
Um, I don't know how to take that now.

01:16:34.900 --> 01:16:35.460
All right.

01:16:35.480 --> 01:16:38.200
Well, Alistair, uh, anything
else we should touch on?

01:16:39.740 --> 01:16:41.960
Alastair Humphreys: No, I think,
uh, ending on your lack of beauty

01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:44.630
and your imperfection sounds
an ideal way to wrap this up.

01:16:45.095 --> 01:16:45.235
I

01:16:45.235 --> 01:16:46.835
Travis Bader: like that Alistair.

01:16:46.965 --> 01:16:49.705
Thank you so much for being
on the silver core podcast.

01:16:49.725 --> 01:16:51.275
I really enjoyed this conversation.

01:16:51.695 --> 01:16:51.935
Thank

01:16:51.935 --> 01:16:52.065
Alastair Humphreys: you.

01:16:52.065 --> 01:16:52.575
Likewise.

01:16:52.605 --> 01:16:53.395
It's been good fun.

01:16:53.455 --> 01:16:53.925
Thank you.