WEBVTT

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As we were wrapping up TalosCon 2024

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I was in the pub talking to one of my fans,

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Rio Kierkels, a DevOps Specialist

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from the Netherlands.

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And at one point Rio said, you should

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talk to Mischa van den Burg.

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So here we are today.

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Thank you, Rio.

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And it's great talking to you, Mischa.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Gerhard.

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So we talked a little bit about this

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before we started recording.

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The more I was researching the content

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that you produce and the blog post,

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the more excited I was getting.

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I knew this was going to

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be an amazing conversation.

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You've put so much good stuff out there,

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not just in terms of content,

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but in terms of ideas and you live them,

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which I find very inspiring.

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Like you are the embodiment of

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everything that you stand for.

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And it's amazing.

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Thank you.

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That's the biggest

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compliment I've had in a long time.

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Thank you.

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Four years ago, you switched

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from nurse to DevOps engineer.

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That's right.

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Why DevOps?

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I had been living what you

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can call it a colorful life.

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I've tried out several things.

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I moved to Norway.

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I worked in the oil industry there.

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I worked in management.

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Then I lost my job in that industry and I

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was very fed up with it.

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So I wanted to try something else.

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So I transitioned to nursing.

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I wanted to work more with people and

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like feeling that I

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made a change in the world.

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And I did.

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Every day I was at the beds with the

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patients and I could literally make their

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world a little bit better by just being

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there for them and

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putting in a lot of effort.

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But I'd also noticed that like my

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personality, I'm rather introverted and

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it was costing me a lot of energy.

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And I wasn't sure if I was going to

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be able to do this like

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for the rest of my life.

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Throughout this whole period, I was

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always ever since I was a kid tinkering

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with computers and scripting,

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automating, especially video games.

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I was very into online RPGs.

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And at some point I figured out that you

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could write scripts for those RPGs.

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So I could mine my ores and earn

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my in-game money while

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I was doing my homework.

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Also Diablo II: Resurrected bot, seriously,

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like what I saw that like, hey, I think

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that's what that was.

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That was used to be my favorite game.

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Still is by the way, I'm still playing that.

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So yeah, like you like you and I never

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built a bot by the way for Diablo II

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Resurrected, but you did. Amazing.

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Well, I didn't build it.

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It was an open source project and I was

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involved with it, but

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by no means built it.

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But I did run it and

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made videos about it.

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So I did do that.

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That's when like my fascination with

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computers and

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automation especially started.

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And that escalated to me having like

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renting servers in Germany and having

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hundreds of accounts playing the games for me.

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And then selling that in-game currency

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for a little bit of extra money.

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I could by no means live off it, but it

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was just so cool to know

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that I had this army of bots.

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playing for me as I was doing my work.

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So in that process, I learned Python

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coding, Linux. Everything was running

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running on Linux, and

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I was doing all of this in my free time

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and I was always like, well

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what if I could make this my job?

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Like not automated games specifically,

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but like working with infrastructure and

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working with code, automation.

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And I tried a few times, but it was

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always like, well, you don't have a CS

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degree and you don't have

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experience in the field.

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And this was when I was living in Norway.

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So that was very tough to get into, but

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at some point I was again reaching that

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point in my nursing career where I felt

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this is not going to be the thing either.

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And then I just went, I asked myself the question:

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What do I want to do?

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And I answered that by saying:

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what do I like to do in my free time?

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And that was what came out.

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And then to get back to your question,

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I started talking to people

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who I knew in the IT industry.

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And one of them said, I

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think DevOps is your thing.

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I think that's what

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you're describing to me.

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You're what you like

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about code and automation.

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I think DevOps is the thing.

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And that put me on the track on DevOps.

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And as soon as I heard that word for the

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first time, I was basically sold.

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Okay.

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So as you were discovering DevOps,

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as you're getting more and more into it,

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what are the fun things that you didn't

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expect to begin with,

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but you really enjoyed?

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You've been doing this for four years

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now, five years, four years?

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I'm going into my fourth year now, yeah.

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I really love to learn, and learn new

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skills, new technologies.

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And I hadn't fully appreciated when

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I started out that this field,

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or IT in general, is just such

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a constantly changing field.

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And you're basically required to tinker

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in the evenings just to stay up to date.

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It gives this constant intellectual

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stimulation for me and something to keep

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up with and to share about.

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Which is something that I didn't

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realize in the beginning.

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I thought, okay, I have a

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skill set I need to learn.

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I learn it.

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And then that's what I'm going to do.

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But that's one thing that really

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surprised me and that

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I still enjoy a lot.

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What about the hardest part?

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I did have this vision that I would sit

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behind my computer and code and tinker

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with what I like to do.

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And that was it.

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And I heavily underestimated

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the soft skills part of it.

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So that in DevOps, you're all about

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breaking down silos and helping teams to

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reach their goals as a DevOps Engineer.

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And I didn't realize how much

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interpersonal communication and meetings

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and all of that is involved with that.

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It's not necessarily the hardest part

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about it, but that was something that I

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had to like readjust myself to.

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But then my nursing skills, and my

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project management skills like

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really came to shine there.

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So that's, I think, part of my

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success as a DevOps Engineer.

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That background that I could apply those

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skills in those environments.

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And yeah, another hard part about DevOps

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is that it's sometimes hard for me to

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realize that not everybody is

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enthusiastic about these things as I am.

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So if you come into a company and yeah,

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we're all about Kubernetes now.

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Let's start.

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Let's do everything Kubernetes.

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And this is why.

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And then it's like: hold on there cowboy.

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You said the K word.

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I said the K word.

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Get out of here.

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Mischa will no longer join this meeting.

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He said the K word.

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That can be a bit challenging.

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And that's one thing you have to learn

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if you're passionate about something that

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not everybody is going to be as

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passionate about as you are.

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What does it mean

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"DevOps - breaking down silos" in practice?

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Do you have a story or an example to give

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that illustrates that concept?

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We were basically the cloud platform team

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and then we had development teams relying

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on us running that platform logically.

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What would happen is that we would get a

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ticket and then: oh, there's

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a problem with the database.

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And then it wasn't necessarily that

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they were saying you should fix it.

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It wasn't necessarily implied that there

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was this expectation

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that we just handle it.

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But the way it was working in this

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company is that there wasn't much

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collaboration between those divisions.

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So even though we were a DevOps platform

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team, it was again, just Dev throwing

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stuff over the fence to Ops.

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What I emphasized was: is this urgent?

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How urgent is this?

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Okay.

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Well, it can wait a day, okay.

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Let's plan a meeting,

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and let's go over it together.

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And I would, I would, of course, look

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into it myself and see if there was like

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something immediately going wrong

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with the database itself.

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But then I would actually jump on a call

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with the developer who

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sent in this ticket,

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and rather than just me fixing it,

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I would do it together with him.

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And not necessarily because

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I didn't know what to do, but I was actually

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showing genuine interest in

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what is the application doing,

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and how does it work.

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And when you start doing that, then the

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people, what they're working on, they

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start to get very enthusiastic about it.

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And in my experience, then you get into a

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bit of a different mindset together

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instead of like, well, there's this error

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and we're fixing it.

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It becomes more of a personal project that you're

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a fun thing that you're solving together.

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And when you do that,

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you become more relaxed.

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And then in my case, we found

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the solution much faster.

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And more often than not, developers were

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pointing out stuff, like we were

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screen sharing, and we were in the monitoring.

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And I thought that I had seen

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that I had analyzed

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the problem and I thought I had it,

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but he said: "Hey, what about that one?"

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And I hadn't,

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that one hadn't occurred to me,

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and we dug into it,

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and then that was the problem.

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So that's a very long

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winded explanation, I think.

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But that's one thing that I have always

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emphasized is: okay, we are DevOps team,

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it's not supposed to be that way,

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but how do you actually implementing that

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collaboration between the two?

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00:10:17.666 --> 00:10:20.958
And for me, this was one way of doing

278
00:10:20.958 --> 00:10:23.333
that, to actually do it

279
00:10:23.333 --> 00:10:25.000
in meetings, in calls together.

280
00:10:25.625 --> 00:10:27.708
That is a great example.

281
00:10:29.125 --> 00:10:29.875
Great example.

282
00:10:30.375 --> 00:10:33.708
It starts with working together on a problem,

283
00:10:33.708 --> 00:10:34.875
not you throwing the problem

284
00:10:34.875 --> 00:10:37.250
over the fence, and letting me handle it.

285
00:10:37.625 --> 00:10:40.125
Because that in itself is the first step

286
00:10:40.125 --> 00:10:41.375
towards building a silo.

287
00:10:41.791 --> 00:10:42.250
Yeah.

288
00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:43.750
The second step is accepting

289
00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:45.541
the ticket, and going with it.

290
00:10:45.958 --> 00:10:46.791
Don't do that.

291
00:10:47.583 --> 00:10:49.416
Try to have the conversation.

292
00:10:49.416 --> 00:10:51.208
Try to work on it together,

293
00:10:51.791 --> 00:10:54.041
and be open to working together.

294
00:10:54.208 --> 00:10:54.583
Full stop.

295
00:10:54.666 --> 00:10:55.166
Yes.

296
00:10:55.250 --> 00:10:56.125
We are in this together.

297
00:10:56.125 --> 00:10:58.291
It's not me, and I'll figure it out,

298
00:10:58.500 --> 00:10:59.791
and you'll just get the end result.

299
00:11:00.083 --> 00:11:01.458
We will go through it together.

300
00:11:02.375 --> 00:11:03.833
Bonus points if you can record it.

301
00:11:04.750 --> 00:11:07.041
One of the best things which I've done is

302
00:11:07.041 --> 00:11:09.041
recording internal meetings like this,

303
00:11:09.250 --> 00:11:10.666
because we are a remote team.

304
00:11:11.041 --> 00:11:13.291
Jump on Riverside, or any

305
00:11:13.291 --> 00:11:15.375
remote software exactly like this.

306
00:11:16.083 --> 00:11:18.041
Do the recording, do the screen sharing,

307
00:11:18.416 --> 00:11:19.625
do some minimal editing,

308
00:11:20.416 --> 00:11:22.583
and then you have a video of how you

309
00:11:22.583 --> 00:11:23.541
solved the problem together.

310
00:11:24.083 --> 00:11:24.541
Yes.

311
00:11:24.625 --> 00:11:27.000
Post it internally and it's a reference

312
00:11:27.166 --> 00:11:28.541
for example:

313
00:11:28.875 --> 00:11:30.083
what does it mean to be on call?

314
00:11:30.875 --> 00:11:32.208
How do you handle an incident?

315
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:33.958
What happens when you take

316
00:11:33.958 --> 00:11:35.291
an application into production?

317
00:11:35.875 --> 00:11:37.583
If a migration, if a database migration

318
00:11:37.583 --> 00:11:39.458
fails, how do you tackle it?

319
00:11:40.250 --> 00:11:41.958
How do you build preview environments?

320
00:11:41.958 --> 00:11:43.500
Why do you need preview environments?

321
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.500
All sorts of questions like these that

322
00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:47.458
come up, build a knowledge

323
00:11:47.458 --> 00:11:50.750
base, a wiki of some sort,

324
00:11:50.958 --> 00:11:53.166
A Zettelkasten. It's a system for

325
00:11:53.166 --> 00:11:55.625
wikis, but still something

326
00:11:55.625 --> 00:11:57.958
that captures that knowledge.

327
00:11:58.375 --> 00:12:00.166
And it's not different

328
00:12:00.166 --> 00:12:01.583
people doing things in a corner.

329
00:12:01.916 --> 00:12:04.500
It's people coming together, recording

330
00:12:04.500 --> 00:12:06.208
that, and then sharing that knowledge.

331
00:12:07.041 --> 00:12:09.083
And with all the tech that we have

332
00:12:09.083 --> 00:12:10.250
nowadays, starting

333
00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:11.958
with AI, transcription,

334
00:12:12.583 --> 00:12:13.958
this is easier than ever.

335
00:12:14.458 --> 00:12:15.416
You still have to do it.

336
00:12:16.250 --> 00:12:16.916
Totally agree.

337
00:12:17.416 --> 00:12:20.250
And it's one of the main emphases I have

338
00:12:20.250 --> 00:12:21.875
when I work somewhere is

339
00:12:21.875 --> 00:12:24.291
usually when I jump on a team,

340
00:12:24.291 --> 00:12:25.833
the documentation sucks.

341
00:12:26.125 --> 00:12:29.416
And I always make it a point

342
00:12:29.416 --> 00:12:31.333
of improving that from day one.

343
00:12:32.166 --> 00:12:33.875
Like there's always the onboarding

344
00:12:33.875 --> 00:12:35.916
process where you can't really do much

345
00:12:35.916 --> 00:12:37.000
the first couple of days.

346
00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:39.166
I always start with reading the

347
00:12:39.166 --> 00:12:41.041
documentation, asking questions and

348
00:12:41.041 --> 00:12:43.083
improving it already as I go along.

349
00:12:43.083 --> 00:12:44.000
That's amazing.

350
00:12:44.375 --> 00:12:45.625
Document first,

351
00:12:45.833 --> 00:12:47.166
automate second.

352
00:12:47.166 --> 00:12:48.500
But always document.

353
00:12:49.375 --> 00:12:50.291
I used to do things

354
00:12:50.291 --> 00:12:51.875
wrong for many, many years.

355
00:12:52.333 --> 00:12:53.250
I used to like automation.

356
00:12:53.791 --> 00:12:54.666
There's this Makefile.

357
00:12:54.666 --> 00:12:55.291
How do you mean?

358
00:12:55.291 --> 00:12:56.583
It's like self-explanatory.

359
00:12:57.500 --> 00:12:58.000
And people would tell

360
00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.166
me, no, where's the docs?

361
00:12:59.583 --> 00:13:00.666
Who needs docs when

362
00:13:00.666 --> 00:13:01.916
everything is here in the Makefile?

363
00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:04.333
It took me a while, but I finally got it.

364
00:13:04.916 --> 00:13:06.791
Documentation first, automation second.

365
00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:09.833
Are there any hard-earned lessons, any

366
00:13:09.833 --> 00:13:12.083
hard-earned DevOps lessons that you would

367
00:13:12.083 --> 00:13:13.250
like to share with us?

368
00:13:14.083 --> 00:13:17.208
It's really important to keep an online

369
00:13:17.208 --> 00:13:20.166
presence and keep that well up to date.

370
00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:24.208
So the moment you start, like you can

371
00:13:24.208 --> 00:13:25.166
always lose your job.

372
00:13:25.791 --> 00:13:28.500
And the moment you lose your job and you

373
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:29.333
haven't updated your

374
00:13:29.333 --> 00:13:31.291
LinkedIn profile for three years,

375
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:33.250
or even not having a

376
00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:34.666
LinkedIn profile at all,

377
00:13:35.416 --> 00:13:37.291
is one of the biggest mistakes you can

378
00:13:37.291 --> 00:13:38.958
make as an engineer, in my

379
00:13:38.958 --> 00:13:40.916
opinion, in this day and age.

380
00:13:41.791 --> 00:13:42.791
And I don't necessarily

381
00:13:42.791 --> 00:13:44.250
like that it's the case.

382
00:13:44.583 --> 00:13:47.333
Like I still am the guy when I'm on the

383
00:13:47.333 --> 00:13:48.375
street and I'm taking a

384
00:13:48.375 --> 00:13:49.666
picture with my cell phone.

385
00:13:50.333 --> 00:13:51.250
I feel weird.

386
00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:52.916
It feels still like this

387
00:13:52.916 --> 00:13:54.916
abnormal thing to do to me.

388
00:13:54.958 --> 00:13:57.833
Like I wasn't a

389
00:13:57.833 --> 00:13:59.625
social media person at all.

390
00:14:00.083 --> 00:14:02.833
But once I recognize the potential it has

391
00:14:02.833 --> 00:14:04.875
and the importance it has

392
00:14:04.875 --> 00:14:07.958
these days for your career,

393
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.375
then I think this is one hard-earned

394
00:14:11.375 --> 00:14:13.958
lesson that I would like to give

395
00:14:13.958 --> 00:14:16.875
everybody to share your journeys,

396
00:14:17.125 --> 00:14:19.041
even if it's just one post a week.

397
00:14:19.583 --> 00:14:21.750
But be active online.

398
00:14:22.166 --> 00:14:24.541
It will only only give you benefits.

399
00:14:25.208 --> 00:14:26.875
Build your personal brand.

400
00:14:27.666 --> 00:14:29.708
Whatever that is, whatever works for you.

401
00:14:30.250 --> 00:14:33.083
If it's TikTok, if it's Reels, if it's

402
00:14:33.083 --> 00:14:35.000
Instagram, it doesn't really matter.

403
00:14:35.291 --> 00:14:37.416
Twitter, Blue Sky, say

404
00:14:37.416 --> 00:14:39.416
Twitter... X, shall I say or Xitter.

405
00:14:39.875 --> 00:14:41.375
I've heard that's like a new thing, which

406
00:14:41.375 --> 00:14:42.666
is like catching apparently.

407
00:14:43.083 --> 00:14:44.041
Xitter, that's a funny one.

408
00:14:44.041 --> 00:14:44.875
In Mandarin, it

409
00:14:44.875 --> 00:14:45.791
actually means something else.

410
00:14:46.166 --> 00:14:49.125
So anyway, I just read recently,

411
00:14:49.125 --> 00:14:50.500
the point is whatever works for

412
00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:53.333
you, videos, podcasts - do that.

413
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.416
And if it's too much to start one,

414
00:14:58.416 --> 00:15:00.750
or maintain one, join one.

415
00:15:01.166 --> 00:15:02.166
There's so many around.

416
00:15:02.958 --> 00:15:03.541
Yes.

417
00:15:03.833 --> 00:15:05.458
So do whatever you can do to

418
00:15:05.458 --> 00:15:07.000
put good content out there.

419
00:15:07.791 --> 00:15:08.250
Do that.

420
00:15:08.541 --> 00:15:11.125
Personal blog. Does not matter what it is

421
00:15:11.125 --> 00:15:12.125
as long as you do that,

422
00:15:12.625 --> 00:15:15.541
because it's like compound interest.

423
00:15:16.583 --> 00:15:17.250
You're putting in the

424
00:15:17.250 --> 00:15:18.458
bank of your personal brand.

425
00:15:18.916 --> 00:15:20.333
It's you. Be who you

426
00:15:20.333 --> 00:15:22.041
are and show the world.

427
00:15:22.958 --> 00:15:23.833
Exactly.

428
00:15:24.333 --> 00:15:26.833
If you have a stack of 200 CVs,

429
00:15:26.833 --> 00:15:28.458
and there's one person there

430
00:15:28.458 --> 00:15:30.916
with a thousand followers and a

431
00:15:30.916 --> 00:15:33.708
personal brand, he literally has a better

432
00:15:33.708 --> 00:15:35.083
chance of getting the job.

433
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:37.916
Again, I don't necessarily like it this

434
00:15:37.916 --> 00:15:41.125
way, but believe me, it is this way.

435
00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.250
Another hard-earned lesson that you've

436
00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:45.166
shared, and I picked it up from the

437
00:15:45.166 --> 00:15:46.166
various YouTube videos

438
00:15:46.208 --> 00:15:49.916
that you posted and blog posts, is:

439
00:15:49.916 --> 00:15:52.625
you waited too long to start a home lab.

440
00:15:53.583 --> 00:15:57.958
Yeah. I'm an academic-oriented person.

441
00:15:58.291 --> 00:15:59.458
I studied at university.

442
00:15:59.958 --> 00:16:02.125
I love reading books and getting into

443
00:16:02.125 --> 00:16:03.500
theory and writing notes

444
00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:05.750
and getting more and more

445
00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:07.250
and more information in my head.

446
00:16:08.041 --> 00:16:11.583
But when I started learning Linux

447
00:16:11.583 --> 00:16:13.375
seriously, professionally,

448
00:16:13.541 --> 00:16:18.875
I'm ashamed to say this, but I wasn't

449
00:16:18.875 --> 00:16:20.291
entering the commands into

450
00:16:20.291 --> 00:16:21.833
the command line for months.

451
00:16:22.291 --> 00:16:23.541
I was just reading about

452
00:16:23.541 --> 00:16:25.041
them and I said, "Oh yeah, okay,

453
00:16:25.041 --> 00:16:26.708
well that's how the file system works."

454
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:27.458
Great.

455
00:16:27.833 --> 00:16:29.500
But when I sat down and actually tried to

456
00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:30.458
do it the first time,

457
00:16:31.083 --> 00:16:32.125
it wasn't that great.

458
00:16:33.375 --> 00:16:35.750
It hadn't stuck in my mind at all.

459
00:16:35.958 --> 00:16:39.583
One huge mistake I made that I wasn't

460
00:16:39.583 --> 00:16:42.166
applying what I was learning in practice,

461
00:16:42.166 --> 00:16:45.750
and you really need to do that in order

462
00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:46.958
to make things stick.

463
00:16:47.625 --> 00:16:49.583
And one of the best ways to do that is to

464
00:16:49.583 --> 00:16:51.375
start a home lab in

465
00:16:51.375 --> 00:16:52.916
whatever shape or form that is.

466
00:16:53.458 --> 00:16:55.875
Anyone can do it with any hardware.

467
00:16:56.291 --> 00:16:56.791
That's it.

468
00:16:56.791 --> 00:16:58.250
It's becoming more and more accessible

469
00:16:58.250 --> 00:16:59.875
and you will learn so much.

470
00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:00.958
So just go and learn.

471
00:17:01.291 --> 00:17:01.791
Have fun.

472
00:17:02.125 --> 00:17:02.625
Explore.

473
00:17:02.708 --> 00:17:03.208
Tinker.

474
00:17:03.666 --> 00:17:04.125
Exactly.

475
00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.916
Yeah, I also always used to associate

476
00:17:06.916 --> 00:17:08.000
this word "home lab"

477
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.333
with these huge server racks

478
00:17:10.333 --> 00:17:11.083
with blinking lights.

479
00:17:11.416 --> 00:17:13.375
That's what you see on YouTube.

480
00:17:13.916 --> 00:17:15.875
I never understood that you could

481
00:17:15.875 --> 00:17:17.125
actually do this on

482
00:17:17.125 --> 00:17:18.750
cheaper hardware or on something

483
00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:20.083
that you already have.

484
00:17:20.666 --> 00:17:22.208
So my students, I always

485
00:17:22.208 --> 00:17:24.500
say, Okay, go to your closet.

486
00:17:24.916 --> 00:17:28.583
There's 99% sure there is one old laptop

487
00:17:28.583 --> 00:17:30.166
in there with maybe four

488
00:17:30.166 --> 00:17:31.416
to eight gigabytes of RAM.

489
00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:35.041
Install Ubuntu server on it and you have a home lab.

490
00:17:35.041 --> 00:17:37.250
You have a learning environment where you

491
00:17:37.250 --> 00:17:40.583
can learn enough skills to get a job.

492
00:17:41.041 --> 00:17:42.291
That's literally all the

493
00:17:42.291 --> 00:17:43.791
hardware you need to get a job.

494
00:17:44.791 --> 00:17:45.916
I went through every

495
00:17:45.916 --> 00:17:47.500
single article on your blog.

496
00:17:49.375 --> 00:17:50.083
It's amazing.

497
00:17:50.208 --> 00:17:51.833
So thank you first of all for taking the

498
00:17:51.833 --> 00:17:52.541
time to write them,

499
00:17:52.541 --> 00:17:53.541
and then to share them.

500
00:17:54.791 --> 00:17:57.583
And out of all of them, there's one that

501
00:17:57.583 --> 00:17:58.750
resonated with me the most.

502
00:17:59.791 --> 00:18:01.583
Do you want to guess which one?

503
00:18:05.958 --> 00:18:07.291
My favourite one is:

504
00:18:07.291 --> 00:18:08.375
"I'm in love with my work"

505
00:18:09.083 --> 00:18:11.541
So I'm not sure if that's the one,

506
00:18:11.541 --> 00:18:13.250
or it's "The power of writing".

507
00:18:13.458 --> 00:18:15.125
It's either that one or the other one.

508
00:18:15.458 --> 00:18:17.500
Okay, so I'm going to read a quote and

509
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:19.083
you'll recognize it, I think, after

510
00:18:19.083 --> 00:18:19.958
the second sentence.

511
00:18:21.458 --> 00:18:24.625
Once you decide on your occupation, you

512
00:18:24.625 --> 00:18:26.125
must immerse yourself in your work.

513
00:18:27.166 --> 00:18:27.708
Yeah, I know.

514
00:18:28.125 --> 00:18:29.875
You have to fall in love with your work.

515
00:18:30.416 --> 00:18:31.958
Never complain about your job.

516
00:18:32.875 --> 00:18:33.750
You must dedicate your

517
00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:35.750
life to mastering your skill.

518
00:18:36.958 --> 00:18:38.958
That's the secret of success and it is

519
00:18:38.958 --> 00:18:42.000
the key to being regarded honorably.

520
00:18:43.333 --> 00:18:43.875
Who said that?

521
00:18:44.458 --> 00:18:44.958
Who wrote that?

522
00:18:45.208 --> 00:18:45.416
Jiro.

523
00:18:45.708 --> 00:18:46.083
Jiro.

524
00:18:46.083 --> 00:18:47.166
Who's Jiro?

525
00:18:47.791 --> 00:18:48.500
Tell us about Jiro.

526
00:18:49.333 --> 00:18:49.833
Jiro.

527
00:18:50.458 --> 00:18:55.833
Oh, Jiro is the protagonist or the main

528
00:18:55.833 --> 00:18:57.041
character of the

529
00:18:57.041 --> 00:18:59.875
documentary "Jiro Dreams of Sushi."

530
00:19:01.166 --> 00:19:05.083
And when I first saw this documentary, I

531
00:19:05.083 --> 00:19:07.125
did not appreciate how

532
00:19:07.125 --> 00:19:08.583
deep this actually is.

533
00:19:08.583 --> 00:19:13.250
But Jiro is a sushi chef who operates out

534
00:19:13.250 --> 00:19:16.041
of a subway station in

535
00:19:16.041 --> 00:19:17.375
this tiny little restaurant

536
00:19:17.791 --> 00:19:19.666
with like four seats in it.

537
00:19:20.125 --> 00:19:23.375
And he is the master of

538
00:19:23.375 --> 00:19:25.041
sushi of the entire world.

539
00:19:25.333 --> 00:19:27.791
Like there's nobody better than him.

540
00:19:28.291 --> 00:19:31.583
And I know nothing about sushi.

541
00:19:31.583 --> 00:19:33.166
I have no interest in sushi.

542
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.000
But this documentary is the story of him

543
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.458
like committing to his craft

544
00:19:39.458 --> 00:19:41.833
of becoming a sushi master.

545
00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:45.000
And what they call in Japan a "shokunin".

546
00:19:45.791 --> 00:19:47.958
Someone who is completely dedicated to

547
00:19:47.958 --> 00:19:49.250
their craft and just doing

548
00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:51.666
the same thing over and over and

549
00:19:51.666 --> 00:19:55.375
over and over again and making it perfect

550
00:19:55.375 --> 00:19:57.416
and even more perfect the next day.

551
00:19:58.250 --> 00:19:59.208
That is the shortest

552
00:19:59.208 --> 00:20:01.541
description I could give you.

553
00:20:02.208 --> 00:20:03.000
That's a great one.

554
00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:04.750
So this restaurant is in

555
00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:06.250
Tokyo, by the way, Japan.

556
00:20:06.916 --> 00:20:09.291
So if you're there, I forget the name of

557
00:20:09.291 --> 00:20:10.125
the underground station,

558
00:20:10.125 --> 00:20:11.833
but you will find it because there's just

559
00:20:11.833 --> 00:20:13.041
one like this in the

560
00:20:13.041 --> 00:20:14.250
entire world actually.

561
00:20:14.875 --> 00:20:18.375
It's a three Michelin star restaurant.

562
00:20:19.333 --> 00:20:21.125
Only one of its kind in the world.

563
00:20:22.083 --> 00:20:24.208
And some say Jiro is the best sushi chef

564
00:20:24.208 --> 00:20:25.916
that has ever lived.

565
00:20:26.916 --> 00:20:29.208
Now, this documentary was recorded, it

566
00:20:29.208 --> 00:20:32.458
was actually was it came out in 2011.

567
00:20:34.041 --> 00:20:35.958
Jiro was 85 years old.

568
00:20:37.083 --> 00:20:38.416
And he's been doing this.

569
00:20:38.416 --> 00:20:39.333
He's been doing sushi

570
00:20:39.333 --> 00:20:41.125
every day since he was 19.

571
00:20:41.166 --> 00:20:42.000
Yeah.

572
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.375
Today, Jiro turns 99.

573
00:20:46.416 --> 00:20:47.958
I say today when we're recording this

574
00:20:47.958 --> 00:20:48.916
actually maybe a few

575
00:20:48.916 --> 00:20:50.250
weeks ago, he turned 99.

576
00:20:50.833 --> 00:20:53.291
I'm wondering, is he still making sushi?

577
00:20:54.375 --> 00:20:56.416
Well, the last time I checked, that's a

578
00:20:56.416 --> 00:20:57.541
couple of years ago.

579
00:20:58.208 --> 00:21:00.541
Then he was also in his 90s and he was

580
00:21:00.541 --> 00:21:02.541
still there every day in his restaurant.

581
00:21:02.541 --> 00:21:02.875
That's amazing.

582
00:21:03.958 --> 00:21:05.791
I didn't realize this, but in the

583
00:21:05.791 --> 00:21:09.291
Japanese culture, apparently retired is

584
00:21:09.291 --> 00:21:10.500
not that well understood.

585
00:21:11.166 --> 00:21:11.416
No.

586
00:21:12.375 --> 00:21:15.541
When we first talked, I had a title in

587
00:21:15.541 --> 00:21:16.958
mind for our conversation.

588
00:21:18.083 --> 00:21:19.333
Do you remember what that was?

589
00:21:20.333 --> 00:21:21.583
The Note Taking Santa Claus.

590
00:21:21.583 --> 00:21:22.958
The Note Taking Santa Claus.

591
00:21:22.958 --> 00:21:23.375
That's it.

592
00:21:23.375 --> 00:21:24.916
Okay, we will get to that in a minute.

593
00:21:24.916 --> 00:21:26.375
I hope or a few minutes we'll see.

594
00:21:26.958 --> 00:21:29.791
But after watching "Jiro Dreams of Sushi",

595
00:21:29.791 --> 00:21:31.916
and reading all your blog,

596
00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:34.166
I came up with a new title proposal.

597
00:21:34.708 --> 00:21:35.458
Let's see if it's as

598
00:21:35.458 --> 00:21:36.916
good as DevOps Sushi.

599
00:21:37.791 --> 00:21:39.291
I was thinking:

600
00:21:39.833 --> 00:21:42.541
 "The Bear that Dreams of DevOps".

601
00:21:43.416 --> 00:21:45.500
The Bear that Dreams of DevOps.

602
00:21:45.625 --> 00:21:46.083
Wow.

603
00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:48.250
Okay.

604
00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:51.083
Why is the bear an important thing for you?

605
00:21:51.083 --> 00:21:53.375
Because I know it is, but why is it?

606
00:21:53.375 --> 00:21:54.125
Because people listening

607
00:21:54.125 --> 00:21:55.458
to us, they won't know.

608
00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:59.625
You really have read all of my blog.

609
00:21:59.625 --> 00:22:01.416
I'm so honored that someone...

610
00:22:02.416 --> 00:22:06.083
This also is featured on the blog and why

611
00:22:06.083 --> 00:22:10.250
I chose the logo at the time that I had.

612
00:22:10.833 --> 00:22:15.833
And Mischa is a Russian

613
00:22:15.833 --> 00:22:19.250
name that means"little bear".

614
00:22:19.583 --> 00:22:20.583
So I'm conveniently

615
00:22:20.583 --> 00:22:23.291
ignoring the little part here,

616
00:22:23.291 --> 00:22:25.958
but it might not seem on the camera, but

617
00:22:25.958 --> 00:22:29.500
I'm Dutch and I'm almost two meters tall.

618
00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:30.791
So I'm a pretty big guy.

619
00:22:31.541 --> 00:22:33.083
And in Norwegian, they

620
00:22:33.083 --> 00:22:34.625
have this word called Bamse,

621
00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:37.041
which also means teddy bear.

622
00:22:37.083 --> 00:22:39.958
But they usually describe that with

623
00:22:39.958 --> 00:22:41.958
for long, big hairy guys.

624
00:22:42.291 --> 00:22:44.750
And well, if you're watching this on a

625
00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:47.291
video, you'll see the connection there.

626
00:22:47.958 --> 00:22:49.875
For our listeners, imagine Thor.

627
00:22:58.666 --> 00:22:59.958
Wait, let me get my hammer.

628
00:23:00.125 --> 00:23:00.666
Exactly. Yeah.

629
00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:01.458
That's the only

630
00:23:01.458 --> 00:23:02.541
thing missing from the picture.

631
00:23:05.541 --> 00:23:05.875
Yeah...

632
00:23:06.458 --> 00:23:07.666
So another thing which I watched over the

633
00:23:07.666 --> 00:23:10.875
weekend on top of "Jiro Dreams of Sushi"

634
00:23:10.875 --> 00:23:11.875
which is a great movie,

635
00:23:11.875 --> 00:23:13.583
10 out of 10, highly recommended,

636
00:23:15.375 --> 00:23:17.875
is "Why I use Kubernetes for my Homelab."

637
00:23:18.541 --> 00:23:19.291
A video that you

638
00:23:19.291 --> 00:23:20.750
posted not that long ago.

639
00:23:21.375 --> 00:23:22.916
We'll put a link in the show notes.

640
00:23:23.583 --> 00:23:25.166
And I'm wondering if you

641
00:23:25.166 --> 00:23:26.750
could take us back to the day

642
00:23:27.083 --> 00:23:29.291
that you decided to use

643
00:23:29.291 --> 00:23:30.583
Kubernetes for your home lab.

644
00:23:31.041 --> 00:23:32.583
I think it's a very interesting choice.

645
00:23:33.666 --> 00:23:34.416
How did it start?

646
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.416
That was when I was

647
00:23:36.416 --> 00:23:38.875
working in my first DevOps role,

648
00:23:39.041 --> 00:23:41.541
and we were using Ansible for everything.

649
00:23:41.541 --> 00:23:41.583
and we were using Ansible for everything.

650
00:23:42.458 --> 00:23:45.000
And they had built this super, actually

651
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.291
very impressive system

652
00:23:46.291 --> 00:23:48.541
of deploying Docker servers and then

653
00:23:48.541 --> 00:23:51.416
having three Docker servers,

654
00:23:51.750 --> 00:23:53.833
having running the same container and

655
00:23:53.833 --> 00:23:54.875
then putting them there.

656
00:23:54.875 --> 00:23:54.916
and then putting them there.

657
00:23:55.958 --> 00:23:56.916
But when one of those

658
00:23:56.916 --> 00:23:58.000
containers would die,

659
00:23:58.375 --> 00:23:58.416
then we would have to

660
00:23:58.416 --> 00:23:59.333
then we would have to

661
00:23:59.333 --> 00:24:02.000
go in and fix it, right?

662
00:24:02.166 --> 00:24:04.041
Because you're limited by the tooling,

663
00:24:04.458 --> 00:24:05.666
even though there's probably ways of

664
00:24:05.666 --> 00:24:06.916
doing it with Ansible alone.

665
00:24:07.416 --> 00:24:10.375
That was my reality of the day, of the

666
00:24:10.375 --> 00:24:13.166
situation I was working in.

667
00:24:13.625 --> 00:24:15.916
And when I then for the first time

668
00:24:15.916 --> 00:24:18.666
created a Kubernetes cluster,

669
00:24:19.208 --> 00:24:20.125
and I created a

670
00:24:20.125 --> 00:24:21.916
deployment with three replicas,

671
00:24:22.666 --> 00:24:24.541
and I killed one of those containers,

672
00:24:24.541 --> 00:24:24.583
and I killed one of those containers

673
00:24:24.958 --> 00:24:26.083
and then it came up

674
00:24:26.083 --> 00:24:28.416
automatically, I was sold.

675
00:24:29.416 --> 00:24:31.625
And then when I did a rolling update,

676
00:24:31.750 --> 00:24:33.625
where I would update the image tag,

677
00:24:33.875 --> 00:24:36.875
and then it would go one by one, and then

678
00:24:36.875 --> 00:24:38.125
update the containers.

679
00:24:38.125 --> 00:24:39.791
And if something would go

680
00:24:39.791 --> 00:24:41.125
wrong, it would roll it back.

681
00:24:42.333 --> 00:24:43.375
That's when I fell

682
00:24:43.375 --> 00:24:44.916
totally in love with it.

683
00:24:44.916 --> 00:24:46.916
And I knew I could not go back.

684
00:24:46.916 --> 00:24:47.041
and I knew I could not go back.

685
00:24:47.166 --> 00:24:49.583
For me, that was the

686
00:24:49.583 --> 00:24:50.458
moment where I thought,

687
00:24:50.458 --> 00:24:50.666
this is what I want to work with.

688
00:24:50.666 --> 00:24:52.583
this is what I want to work with.

689
00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:55.541
When I then decided to do my

690
00:24:55.541 --> 00:24:57.250
home lab, to create a home lab,

691
00:24:57.666 --> 00:24:57.708
like it wasn't even a thought,

692
00:24:57.708 --> 00:24:59.666
like it wasn't even a thought,

693
00:25:00.041 --> 00:25:00.916
I didn't ever even

694
00:25:00.916 --> 00:25:02.208
consider anything else.

695
00:25:02.208 --> 00:25:04.041
It was just, yeah, I'm

696
00:25:04.041 --> 00:25:05.416
specializing in Kubernetes.

697
00:25:05.416 --> 00:25:05.458
specializing in Kubernetes.

698
00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:05.791
Of course we need to run

699
00:25:05.791 --> 00:25:06.791
Of course, we need to run

700
00:25:06.791 --> 00:25:08.041
Kubernetes in my home lab.

701
00:25:08.041 --> 00:25:08.083
Kubernetes in my home lab.

702
00:25:08.833 --> 00:25:10.083
Even though it's completely

703
00:25:10.083 --> 00:25:12.625
overkill, and it makes no sense,

704
00:25:12.625 --> 00:25:14.291
it had to be done on Kubernetes.

705
00:25:14.916 --> 00:25:16.500
Well, actually, I think

706
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:17.750
it makes a lot of sense.

707
00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:19.541
And you talk about this

708
00:25:19.541 --> 00:25:20.708
in your video as well.

709
00:25:21.708 --> 00:25:22.666
Why it makes sense,

710
00:25:22.666 --> 00:25:24.416
and why it is important.

711
00:25:24.416 --> 00:25:27.541
And the majority would react that way.

712
00:25:28.125 --> 00:25:29.125
It's overkill.

713
00:25:29.125 --> 00:25:30.125
Of course it's overkill.

714
00:25:30.125 --> 00:25:31.166
Why not use Docker?

715
00:25:31.875 --> 00:25:34.125
You started with K3S.

716
00:25:34.958 --> 00:25:35.458
Why?

717
00:25:36.041 --> 00:25:38.583
Part of me wanted to go the kube-adm way,

718
00:25:38.583 --> 00:25:38.625
Part of me wanted to go the Kubeadm way

719
00:25:39.166 --> 00:25:40.500
and just do it properly.

720
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:40.666
and just do it properly.

721
00:25:40.875 --> 00:25:42.583
Even kube-adm is a bit

722
00:25:42.583 --> 00:25:45.166
easier than doing it the hard way,

723
00:25:45.458 --> 00:25:46.333
like compiling the

724
00:25:46.333 --> 00:25:47.541
binaries yourself, etc.

725
00:25:47.541 --> 00:25:47.916
binaries yourself, etc.

726
00:25:48.375 --> 00:25:49.500
Still a goal that I

727
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:50.583
have for maybe next year.

728
00:25:50.583 --> 00:25:50.625
have for maybe next year.

729
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:51.125
I went for K3s because I recognized

730
00:25:51.125 --> 00:25:54.291
I went for K3S because I recognized that

731
00:25:54.291 --> 00:25:55.833
the sooner I got up and running,

732
00:25:56.041 --> 00:25:56.125
and actually working

733
00:25:56.125 --> 00:25:57.916
and actually working

734
00:25:57.916 --> 00:25:59.166
with the Kubernetes API,

735
00:25:59.875 --> 00:25:59.916
and feeling that I had

736
00:25:59.916 --> 00:26:01.000
and feeling that I had

737
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:02.833
something stable to work with,

738
00:26:04.041 --> 00:26:05.041
the quicker I did that,

739
00:26:05.375 --> 00:26:05.416
the more I would learn,

740
00:26:05.416 --> 00:26:06.791
the more I would learn,

741
00:26:06.791 --> 00:26:08.041
the quicker I would start learning.

742
00:26:08.041 --> 00:26:08.125
the quicker I would start learning.

743
00:26:08.791 --> 00:26:10.958
So I think it might felt

744
00:26:10.958 --> 00:26:12.625
like a shortcut at that time.

745
00:26:13.125 --> 00:26:13.166
but I thought long-term and I thought,

746
00:26:13.166 --> 00:26:14.958
But I thought long-term, and I thought,

747
00:26:14.958 --> 00:26:16.666
well, with kube-adm, like,

748
00:26:16.666 --> 00:26:16.958
like running your own CNI

749
00:26:16.958 --> 00:26:21.041
running your own CNI, and having to

750
00:26:21.041 --> 00:26:22.041
update your certificates,

751
00:26:22.375 --> 00:26:23.625
like, it will work in the beginning,

752
00:26:23.625 --> 00:26:25.041
but if something breaks,

753
00:26:25.041 --> 00:26:25.791
then I'm just sitting

754
00:26:25.791 --> 00:26:26.916
there tinkering for hours.

755
00:26:27.125 --> 00:26:29.291
And I wanted something that was a little

756
00:26:29.291 --> 00:26:31.166
bit more thought through,

757
00:26:31.208 --> 00:26:33.416
and K3S was a very good option for that.

758
00:26:33.791 --> 00:26:34.416
Why not Kind?

759
00:26:35.458 --> 00:26:35.500
I had a few Linux machines

760
00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:37.250
I had a few Linux machines,

761
00:26:37.250 --> 00:26:37.291
I had a few Linux machines

762
00:26:37.583 --> 00:26:39.208
and I really like this

763
00:26:39.208 --> 00:26:42.000
idea of that k3s does,

764
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.916
where you install the binary,

765
00:26:44.291 --> 00:26:45.750
and then you can get a token,

766
00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:46.708
and then you can add

767
00:26:46.708 --> 00:26:48.166
another node to your cluster.

768
00:26:49.166 --> 00:26:52.458
And I actually, you can of

769
00:26:52.458 --> 00:26:53.875
course do this with Kind as well.

770
00:26:54.666 --> 00:26:56.375
But I really like this idea of

771
00:26:56.375 --> 00:26:58.791
maintaining a Linux machine,

772
00:26:58.791 --> 00:26:58.833
maintaining a Linux machine

773
00:26:58.833 --> 00:26:59.833
where you install something on,

774
00:26:59.833 --> 00:27:01.583
where you install something on,

775
00:27:01.583 --> 00:27:02.416
but you still have the

776
00:27:02.416 --> 00:27:04.375
possibility of SSHing into it,

777
00:27:04.416 --> 00:27:07.416
and you still are a Linux administrator

778
00:27:07.416 --> 00:27:08.583
at that point, right?

779
00:27:09.375 --> 00:27:10.708
And I really like that balance,

780
00:27:10.708 --> 00:27:11.916
that I could have those

781
00:27:11.916 --> 00:27:13.625
Linux machines running Linux,

782
00:27:13.625 --> 00:27:16.250
I could tinker with it,

783
00:27:16.541 --> 00:27:17.541
I could still run other

784
00:27:17.541 --> 00:27:19.250
things on that machine as well,

785
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.208
alongside K3S,

786
00:27:21.625 --> 00:27:23.291
and then just expand my

787
00:27:23.291 --> 00:27:24.833
home lab as I went along.

788
00:27:24.833 --> 00:27:26.416
I really like that concept.

789
00:27:27.625 --> 00:27:28.375
Okay, so you mentioned

790
00:27:28.375 --> 00:27:30.291
SSH, which is interesting,

791
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:32.250
because then you switch to Talos,

792
00:27:32.250 --> 00:27:32.666
because then you switched to Talos

793
00:27:32.666 --> 00:27:33.875
and Talos prides

794
00:27:33.875 --> 00:27:35.125
itself on not having SSH.

795
00:27:36.041 --> 00:27:36.458
Yes.

796
00:27:36.583 --> 00:27:37.916
Why did you switch to Talos?

797
00:27:38.875 --> 00:27:40.083
Well, I mean, that was

798
00:27:40.083 --> 00:27:41.666
that stage in my home lab.

799
00:27:41.958 --> 00:27:43.833
And then later, I was running

800
00:27:43.833 --> 00:27:45.583
applications that I was thinking,

801
00:27:45.583 --> 00:27:46.541
well, this is

802
00:27:46.541 --> 00:27:47.833
actually running very stable,

803
00:27:48.125 --> 00:27:50.000
and my home lab has

804
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.416
now escalated to a point,

805
00:27:51.625 --> 00:27:52.416
where I don't want to

806
00:27:52.416 --> 00:27:53.375
live without it anymore.

807
00:27:53.583 --> 00:27:57.000
It's actually containing applications

808
00:27:57.166 --> 00:27:59.125
that I want to keep running 24 seven,

809
00:27:59.666 --> 00:28:01.458
that I want to have

810
00:28:01.458 --> 00:28:03.041
accessible from the internet.

811
00:28:04.541 --> 00:28:06.500
And then the question

812
00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:07.916
of security comes around.

813
00:28:08.583 --> 00:28:11.166
And you need to, when you start exposing

814
00:28:11.166 --> 00:28:12.250
things to the internet,

815
00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:13.083
you need to really

816
00:28:13.083 --> 00:28:14.041
know what you're doing.

817
00:28:14.958 --> 00:28:16.833
It's a very dangerous situation.

818
00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:18.583
If you don't know what you're doing,

819
00:28:18.583 --> 00:28:21.250
and you're just opening ports and letting

820
00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:23.083
people into your cluster,

821
00:28:23.416 --> 00:28:24.416
they could break out of your

822
00:28:24.416 --> 00:28:25.875
containers and do bad things.

823
00:28:26.625 --> 00:28:30.291
So at that point, I felt, okay, I want to

824
00:28:30.291 --> 00:28:31.500
have things more secure.

825
00:28:32.041 --> 00:28:34.000
And then Talos came on my radar,

826
00:28:34.708 --> 00:28:36.083
which is production grade

827
00:28:36.083 --> 00:28:37.458
security out of the box.

828
00:28:38.208 --> 00:28:40.375
And it wasn't necessarily because I felt

829
00:28:40.375 --> 00:28:43.750
incapable of securing my own cluster.

830
00:28:44.583 --> 00:28:46.875
It was more a combination

831
00:28:46.875 --> 00:28:49.041
of learning a new technology

832
00:28:49.166 --> 00:28:51.625
and also having this peace of mind,

833
00:28:51.625 --> 00:28:52.916
knowing that what I was

834
00:28:52.916 --> 00:28:54.416
doing was actually secure.

835
00:28:55.416 --> 00:28:59.000
So then I switched to Talos

836
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.541
and yeah, I'm never going back.

837
00:29:01.541 --> 00:29:03.875
I think it's been amazing so far.

838
00:29:04.250 --> 00:29:05.250
If someone wants to get really good at

839
00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:07.750
Kubernetes and start a homelab today.

840
00:29:08.458 --> 00:29:08.875
Yeah.

841
00:29:09.208 --> 00:29:09.833
How would you recommend

842
00:29:09.833 --> 00:29:10.875
that they do that?

843
00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:12.625
I'm currently in the process

844
00:29:12.625 --> 00:29:14.708
of building a course for this,

845
00:29:14.708 --> 00:29:15.875
the Kubernetes Homelab.

846
00:29:15.875 --> 00:29:18.958
It's 60% done and people are responding

847
00:29:18.958 --> 00:29:21.041
really well to it in the community.

848
00:29:21.375 --> 00:29:22.166
They love it.

849
00:29:22.791 --> 00:29:25.041
And the approach I give there is,

850
00:29:25.875 --> 00:29:26.583
first I have my

851
00:29:26.583 --> 00:29:27.958
Kubernetes Fundamentals course

852
00:29:28.041 --> 00:29:30.958
where they run Rancher Desktop

853
00:29:30.958 --> 00:29:32.875
on their own machine

854
00:29:32.875 --> 00:29:35.416
and then to learn Kubernetes.

855
00:29:35.416 --> 00:29:36.541
And then the next step is

856
00:29:36.541 --> 00:29:38.458
to actually get a laptop,

857
00:29:38.708 --> 00:29:40.458
a Raspberry Pi or some

858
00:29:40.458 --> 00:29:41.916
sort of dedicated hardware

859
00:29:42.125 --> 00:29:44.458
and then run k3s on it.

860
00:29:45.083 --> 00:29:47.541
That is the approach that I advise to do.

861
00:29:47.583 --> 00:29:52.250
So first learn it in a local setting

862
00:29:52.291 --> 00:29:54.250
and then move to dedicated hardware,

863
00:29:54.541 --> 00:29:57.083
use k3s and learn

864
00:29:57.083 --> 00:29:59.083
GitOps as soon as possible.

865
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:01.291
So where could people find this course?

866
00:30:01.791 --> 00:30:04.833
The course is currently

867
00:30:04.833 --> 00:30:07.000
available in my community,

868
00:30:07.291 --> 00:30:08.875
KubeCraft that I started at

869
00:30:08.875 --> 00:30:10.083
the beginning of this year,

870
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.916
where I invite engineers to come in and

871
00:30:14.916 --> 00:30:16.083
engage with each other

872
00:30:16.166 --> 00:30:17.916
and where I also have my note-taking

873
00:30:17.916 --> 00:30:20.208
material and my Kubernetes courses.

874
00:30:20.666 --> 00:30:21.416
Obviously we'll add a

875
00:30:21.416 --> 00:30:22.833
link in the show notes.

876
00:30:23.958 --> 00:30:25.208
I had a quick look.

877
00:30:25.416 --> 00:30:27.833
I haven't joined the community yet.

878
00:30:28.166 --> 00:30:28.958
I'll put yet there.

879
00:30:30.791 --> 00:30:31.583
I've seen that it's

880
00:30:31.583 --> 00:30:33.541
on skool.com with a k.

881
00:30:34.041 --> 00:30:35.291
Can you tell us a little bit about that?

882
00:30:35.916 --> 00:30:38.125
Well, maybe I can just briefly describe

883
00:30:38.125 --> 00:30:39.916
why I even started doing this.

884
00:30:39.916 --> 00:30:42.875
As a YouTuber, I was just making videos

885
00:30:42.875 --> 00:30:44.625
because I like sharing knowledge

886
00:30:45.208 --> 00:30:47.166
and then at some point people were

887
00:30:47.166 --> 00:30:48.708
actually telling me that:

888
00:30:48.875 --> 00:30:49.916
"Whoa, we really like your

889
00:30:49.916 --> 00:30:52.250
approach to explaining things

890
00:30:52.375 --> 00:30:54.208
and how you approach things.

891
00:30:54.916 --> 00:30:57.291
Don't you have a course on X or Y?"

892
00:30:58.333 --> 00:31:00.791
And when I realized that my audience

893
00:31:00.791 --> 00:31:02.291
started asking me for this,

894
00:31:02.291 --> 00:31:04.166
I thought: "Well, maybe I do have some

895
00:31:04.166 --> 00:31:06.458
potential of going

896
00:31:06.458 --> 00:31:08.000
beyond sharing on YouTube."

897
00:31:08.625 --> 00:31:09.875
So at that point, I was

898
00:31:09.875 --> 00:31:12.208
like any engineer considering:

899
00:31:12.208 --> 00:31:13.083
"Oh, I should build my

900
00:31:13.083 --> 00:31:14.041
own course platform."

901
00:31:15.125 --> 00:31:16.458
Let's code my own platform.

902
00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:19.083
And then you spend a weekend on it and

903
00:31:19.083 --> 00:31:20.416
then you start looking into

904
00:31:20.416 --> 00:31:22.833
authentication and user

905
00:31:22.833 --> 00:31:24.416
management and all that stuff.

906
00:31:24.416 --> 00:31:25.041
And then I figure:

907
00:31:25.041 --> 00:31:26.291
"Okay, maybe that's not the way."

908
00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:30.708
And then I researched the platforms and

909
00:31:30.708 --> 00:31:31.375
of course there's

910
00:31:31.375 --> 00:31:33.875
Udemy, there's Kajabi, etc.

911
00:31:34.875 --> 00:31:37.125
But what Skool really emphasizes is

912
00:31:37.125 --> 00:31:40.125
combining education with community.

913
00:31:41.083 --> 00:31:44.791
And when I heard that sentence, I was like:

914
00:31:44.791 --> 00:31:46.083
"Yep, this is it."

915
00:31:46.666 --> 00:31:49.875
Because I don't just want people to buy a

916
00:31:49.875 --> 00:31:51.833
course of me and then that's it.

917
00:31:52.041 --> 00:31:55.250
I mean, that's fine, but it's much better

918
00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:57.416
if you can create a group of people

919
00:31:57.666 --> 00:31:59.666
who are gathering around

920
00:31:59.666 --> 00:32:01.833
their interests for those courses

921
00:32:02.375 --> 00:32:04.958
and then can get support from me,

922
00:32:05.250 --> 00:32:08.333
but more importantly from the collective

923
00:32:08.333 --> 00:32:09.916
knowledge of that community.

924
00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:12.541
They can actually draw from each other

925
00:32:12.541 --> 00:32:15.875
and discuss tactics with each other.

926
00:32:16.333 --> 00:32:17.541
And that is proven to

927
00:32:17.541 --> 00:32:18.916
be very powerful so far.

928
00:32:19.416 --> 00:32:21.041
So this community, when you started

929
00:32:21.041 --> 00:32:23.125
earlier this year, started at zero.

930
00:32:23.666 --> 00:32:24.375
Where is it today?

931
00:32:25.333 --> 00:32:27.875
We are currently at 401 members.

932
00:32:28.416 --> 00:32:30.708
Wow, so just past 400, okay.

933
00:32:31.041 --> 00:32:33.333
So it'd be interesting to see how many

934
00:32:33.333 --> 00:32:34.416
members there will be

935
00:32:34.541 --> 00:32:35.875
by the time this comes out.

936
00:32:36.083 --> 00:32:36.666
And you'll have the

937
00:32:36.666 --> 00:32:38.500
delta to see how that grows.

938
00:32:39.041 --> 00:32:40.125
I also know that

939
00:32:40.125 --> 00:32:41.583
obviously this is a paid community

940
00:32:41.666 --> 00:32:43.291
because of the value that you get.

941
00:32:44.291 --> 00:32:45.708
But there's also a free community that

942
00:32:45.708 --> 00:32:46.833
you have also on Skool.

943
00:32:47.208 --> 00:32:50.208
The free community now has 2000 members.

944
00:32:50.916 --> 00:32:53.375
And I only started that a month ago.

945
00:32:53.583 --> 00:32:54.208
Wow!

946
00:32:54.416 --> 00:32:57.625
So that has been very

947
00:32:57.625 --> 00:32:58.916
successful in that sense.

948
00:33:00.875 --> 00:33:05.083
Well, I do ask, I charge a monthly price

949
00:33:05.083 --> 00:33:08.416
for membership of the premium community.

950
00:33:09.416 --> 00:33:11.708
The services that I provide for KubeCraft.

951
00:33:12.791 --> 00:33:13.625
I decided: well, I'll

952
00:33:13.625 --> 00:33:14.833
create this free community

953
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:16.916
that people can at least come together

954
00:33:16.916 --> 00:33:20.041
and meet people who are...

955
00:33:21.291 --> 00:33:22.333
They're watching my content.

956
00:33:22.833 --> 00:33:25.833
So there is for sure some level of

957
00:33:25.833 --> 00:33:27.208
overlap in their interests,

958
00:33:27.416 --> 00:33:29.375
in note-taking, DevOps and such like.

959
00:33:29.875 --> 00:33:31.375
So people can come there, make friends,

960
00:33:32.083 --> 00:33:34.208
and they can discover the platform.

961
00:33:34.708 --> 00:33:37.708
And I give away a lot of material in that

962
00:33:37.708 --> 00:33:38.916
free community as well.

963
00:33:39.833 --> 00:33:41.000
And then if they like, if

964
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.166
they see the value of it,

965
00:33:44.166 --> 00:33:45.375
then maybe they can consider

966
00:33:45.375 --> 00:33:46.875
joining the premium community.

967
00:33:47.583 --> 00:33:48.083
Okay, great.

968
00:33:48.333 --> 00:33:49.291
We will make sure to add

969
00:33:49.291 --> 00:33:50.333
both links in the show notes

970
00:33:50.541 --> 00:33:51.416
so people can go and

971
00:33:51.416 --> 00:33:53.166
check them both out to see

972
00:33:53.666 --> 00:33:54.708
where they want to start

973
00:33:54.708 --> 00:33:55.791
and what they want to do next.

974
00:33:56.416 --> 00:34:00.250
What would you say is the main reason

975
00:34:00.250 --> 00:34:01.791
that people go from

976
00:34:01.791 --> 00:34:03.916
free to the premium one?

977
00:34:04.708 --> 00:34:08.625
I think there are two kinds of people in

978
00:34:08.625 --> 00:34:11.083
the world in terms of employment.

979
00:34:11.875 --> 00:34:14.833
There is the guy who shows up at work,

980
00:34:14.833 --> 00:34:17.125
does his work, goes home,

981
00:34:17.625 --> 00:34:20.375
and then plays video games

982
00:34:20.375 --> 00:34:21.375
or does whatever he wants

983
00:34:21.375 --> 00:34:23.833
and then he shows back at work again.

984
00:34:24.791 --> 00:34:25.583
And then there's the guy

985
00:34:25.583 --> 00:34:27.125
who is entering the stand-up

986
00:34:27.166 --> 00:34:30.333
who excitedly talks about a new feature

987
00:34:30.333 --> 00:34:32.166
that came out on Talos

988
00:34:32.333 --> 00:34:37.041
or he managed to get this self-hosted app

989
00:34:37.041 --> 00:34:38.416
up and running in his homelab.

990
00:34:38.666 --> 00:34:39.875
And he talks about that.

991
00:34:40.958 --> 00:34:44.916
And I'm obviously the second guy 

992
00:34:44.916 --> 00:34:47.000
who likes to tinker with what he does

993
00:34:47.666 --> 00:34:49.125
in his free time as well.

994
00:34:49.916 --> 00:34:51.708
Well, imagine putting 400

995
00:34:51.708 --> 00:34:52.958
people like that together,

996
00:34:53.333 --> 00:34:55.666
all sharing what they're discovering

997
00:34:55.666 --> 00:34:57.083
and what they're learning.

998
00:34:57.750 --> 00:35:00.125
And what you get from

999
00:35:00.125 --> 00:35:02.000
that is a sense of belonging.

1000
00:35:02.291 --> 00:35:05.750
I was never able to find this place of

1001
00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:08.833
geeks and nerds sharing homelab stuff

1002
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.166
and learning Kubernetes and learning my

1003
00:35:13.166 --> 00:35:14.125
approaches to

1004
00:35:14.125 --> 00:35:16.708
note-taking and personal branding

1005
00:35:18.125 --> 00:35:19.458
and doing that together.

1006
00:35:19.916 --> 00:35:21.750
And I really found my tribe in this.

1007
00:35:22.375 --> 00:35:24.375
I created something that wasn't there and

1008
00:35:24.375 --> 00:35:25.916
I really feel at home there.

1009
00:35:26.583 --> 00:35:28.375
And there is, we have calls

1010
00:35:28.375 --> 00:35:30.416
there as well a few times a week

1011
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.166
where you can ask me questions directly

1012
00:35:33.166 --> 00:35:35.083
on how I approach things.

1013
00:35:35.833 --> 00:35:38.208
But what's even better, I don't try to be

1014
00:35:38.208 --> 00:35:39.458
the guru of the community.

1015
00:35:39.666 --> 00:35:41.750
I'm all about letting the

1016
00:35:41.750 --> 00:35:43.416
community answering things.

1017
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:45.500
Because I can only know so much.

1018
00:35:45.750 --> 00:35:47.125
I only have this experience.

1019
00:35:47.958 --> 00:35:49.916
When you put 10 experienced engineers in

1020
00:35:49.916 --> 00:35:51.916
a call and when you come in there,

1021
00:35:51.916 --> 00:35:53.083
maybe someone who wants

1022
00:35:53.083 --> 00:35:54.416
to transition to DevOps

1023
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:55.791
and you're in that

1024
00:35:55.791 --> 00:35:56.750
meeting and you're saying,

1025
00:35:56.750 --> 00:35:58.083
"Oh, guys, I have this

1026
00:35:58.083 --> 00:35:59.250
problem in my homelab."

1027
00:36:00.041 --> 00:36:01.250
or "At work",

1028
00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:02.333
or, "I don't know what my next

1029
00:36:02.333 --> 00:36:03.416
certification should be."

1030
00:36:04.208 --> 00:36:04.875
If you have all that

1031
00:36:04.875 --> 00:36:06.375
experience sitting there in a meeting,

1032
00:36:07.666 --> 00:36:09.125
you're going to get the answers and

1033
00:36:09.125 --> 00:36:10.250
you're going to get good answers.

1034
00:36:10.833 --> 00:36:12.500
And it's amazing.

1035
00:36:13.583 --> 00:36:15.875
I'm amazed how well it all works and how

1036
00:36:15.875 --> 00:36:17.208
much progress people are making.

1037
00:36:17.750 --> 00:36:19.166
Coming back to the technical side, we

1038
00:36:19.166 --> 00:36:19.916
have a couple more

1039
00:36:19.916 --> 00:36:21.833
things to go through before

1040
00:36:22.041 --> 00:36:23.833
I'm very keen to start screen sharing,

1041
00:36:23.833 --> 00:36:25.625
and showing our homelab,

1042
00:36:25.625 --> 00:36:26.958
because that's what this is about.

1043
00:36:27.458 --> 00:36:29.041
Talking about it, but then also showing

1044
00:36:29.041 --> 00:36:30.333
what that means in practice,

1045
00:36:30.333 --> 00:36:31.500
which I'm very excited about.

1046
00:36:32.458 --> 00:36:33.666
What was the hardest issue

1047
00:36:33.666 --> 00:36:34.833
that you've hit with Talos?

1048
00:36:35.791 --> 00:36:37.833
When I set up my Talos cluster, I had

1049
00:36:37.833 --> 00:36:39.708
baked a custom image.

1050
00:36:40.125 --> 00:36:42.458
There's the image builder, and then you

1051
00:36:42.458 --> 00:36:44.500
can add certain drivers that you need.

1052
00:36:45.500 --> 00:36:49.250
But I did that, and I apparently didn't

1053
00:36:49.250 --> 00:36:50.291
document that properly,

1054
00:36:51.166 --> 00:36:51.958
because I need the

1055
00:36:51.958 --> 00:36:54.250
iSCSI tools for my Synology

1056
00:36:54.541 --> 00:36:55.875
to be able to provision

1057
00:36:55.875 --> 00:36:57.083
storage on the cluster.

1058
00:36:57.958 --> 00:37:01.833
And I had updated my Kubernetes cluster

1059
00:37:01.833 --> 00:37:03.416
with the Talos update,

1060
00:37:03.416 --> 00:37:04.875
so new Talos images are

1061
00:37:04.875 --> 00:37:05.916
loaded onto the nodes.

1062
00:37:06.708 --> 00:37:07.541
And all of a sudden, all

1063
00:37:07.541 --> 00:37:08.708
of my storage was broken,

1064
00:37:08.958 --> 00:37:11.541
and I can be honest, I panicked.

1065
00:37:13.333 --> 00:37:14.458
Fortunately, everything

1066
00:37:14.458 --> 00:37:15.625
is backed up to the cloud.

1067
00:37:16.458 --> 00:37:18.750
But that was a big problem at that point.

1068
00:37:19.291 --> 00:37:20.791
And then after a lot of debugging,

1069
00:37:21.083 --> 00:37:22.333
thinking it was Synology

1070
00:37:22.333 --> 00:37:23.916
pods on the cluster itself

1071
00:37:24.041 --> 00:37:25.666
that maybe got updated

1072
00:37:25.666 --> 00:37:26.791
or weren't compatible,

1073
00:37:27.541 --> 00:37:29.375
I finally realized, oh yeah, I had that

1074
00:37:29.375 --> 00:37:31.083
iSCSI driver that was missing.

1075
00:37:31.291 --> 00:37:32.333
So that was the biggest one.

1076
00:37:32.583 --> 00:37:32.791
Yeah.

1077
00:37:33.666 --> 00:37:35.625
Anything that happened in the recent

1078
00:37:35.625 --> 00:37:37.875
update that you haven't posted yet?

1079
00:37:37.875 --> 00:37:41.083
I ran into something where I would

1080
00:37:41.083 --> 00:37:43.791
initiate a reboot of the node,

1081
00:37:44.083 --> 00:37:47.875
and then in the CLI, it will then, say,

1082
00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:50.500
now waiting for the node to come back up.

1083
00:37:51.583 --> 00:37:54.375
And then I could see in my closet where

1084
00:37:54.375 --> 00:37:56.250
the nodes are standing, it was up.

1085
00:37:56.250 --> 00:37:57.041
It was up and running.

1086
00:37:58.208 --> 00:37:59.666
But it wouldn't work.

1087
00:37:59.666 --> 00:38:01.666
I would have to turn it off and on again,

1088
00:38:01.666 --> 00:38:03.875
and then it would reboot properly.

1089
00:38:04.708 --> 00:38:07.791
Like, I decided not to spend too much

1090
00:38:07.791 --> 00:38:09.166
time into why that was.

1091
00:38:09.166 --> 00:38:10.625
At least I knew how to fix it.

1092
00:38:11.166 --> 00:38:12.750
But that was an

1093
00:38:12.750 --> 00:38:14.625
interesting one that I had this time.

1094
00:38:14.958 --> 00:38:16.416
So this is a tip from the experts.

1095
00:38:17.208 --> 00:38:18.541
Turn it off and on

1096
00:38:18.541 --> 00:38:20.000
again, and it will fix itself.

1097
00:38:21.291 --> 00:38:21.666
That's one.

1098
00:38:22.583 --> 00:38:23.708
Which version did you

1099
00:38:23.708 --> 00:38:24.583
upgrade from and to?

1100
00:38:25.583 --> 00:38:29.000
I went from Talos

1101
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.291
version 1.7.5 to 1.8.2.

1102
00:38:34.416 --> 00:38:35.333
That's it.

1103
00:38:35.708 --> 00:38:36.083
Yeah.

1104
00:38:36.333 --> 00:38:37.625
I assumed this was it.

1105
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.458
From 1.7 to 1.8.

1106
00:38:40.208 --> 00:38:40.666
Oh, really?

1107
00:38:41.458 --> 00:38:45.833
I did went from 1.7.5 to 1.7.7.

1108
00:38:45.833 --> 00:38:47.958
So I was a good boy, and I followed the

1109
00:38:47.958 --> 00:38:49.416
latest patch upgrade,

1110
00:38:49.625 --> 00:38:52.666
and then went to the next minor version.

1111
00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:54.125
But you had the same

1112
00:38:54.125 --> 00:38:55.041
problem too, apparently.

1113
00:38:55.791 --> 00:38:57.541
So I don't do in-place upgrades.

1114
00:38:58.375 --> 00:38:59.708
It's one of my hard rules.

1115
00:39:00.208 --> 00:39:01.250
I never do that.

1116
00:39:01.625 --> 00:39:03.208
Actually, my clusters, they have a date

1117
00:39:03.208 --> 00:39:05.166
on the cluster name,

1118
00:39:05.875 --> 00:39:06.750
which tells me exactly

1119
00:39:06.750 --> 00:39:08.208
when that cluster was created.

1120
00:39:09.166 --> 00:39:13.666
And I never upgrade minors.

1121
00:39:14.666 --> 00:39:16.375
I rarely upgrade patches.

1122
00:39:16.916 --> 00:39:18.458
I just need to know when.

1123
00:39:18.875 --> 00:39:21.500
Even Kubernetes, sometimes I never

1124
00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:22.166
upgrade, for example,

1125
00:39:22.833 --> 00:39:23.958
from one Kubernetes minor

1126
00:39:23.958 --> 00:39:25.250
to another Kubernetes minor,

1127
00:39:25.250 --> 00:39:27.791
even though most experiences are good.

1128
00:39:28.333 --> 00:39:29.708
The problem is everything else that you

1129
00:39:29.708 --> 00:39:30.625
have running in the cluster

1130
00:39:30.916 --> 00:39:32.041
is very difficult to

1131
00:39:32.041 --> 00:39:33.083
reason about the combination

1132
00:39:33.250 --> 00:39:34.708
of the different tools that you have,

1133
00:39:34.708 --> 00:39:36.333
because it's not just Kubernetes,

1134
00:39:36.333 --> 00:39:37.583
not just the operating system.

1135
00:39:37.583 --> 00:39:38.791
There's also everything else.

1136
00:39:39.083 --> 00:39:40.541
What I found is that if

1137
00:39:40.541 --> 00:39:41.666
you do in-place upgrades,

1138
00:39:42.041 --> 00:39:43.250
you're risking it.

1139
00:39:43.250 --> 00:39:44.500
The more upgrades that work,

1140
00:39:45.291 --> 00:39:46.375
the more likely you will

1141
00:39:46.375 --> 00:39:47.750
hit a bug at some point

1142
00:39:47.750 --> 00:39:48.833
where you wish you hadn't done that.

1143
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:49.750
Yeah.

1144
00:39:50.416 --> 00:39:51.708
If you don't do in-place upgrades,

1145
00:39:51.708 --> 00:39:53.333
it forces you to encode

1146
00:39:53.333 --> 00:39:54.583
the system in a certain way.

1147
00:39:54.833 --> 00:39:56.750
It forces you to restore from backups.

1148
00:39:57.250 --> 00:39:59.125
It forces you to have a certain approach,

1149
00:39:59.833 --> 00:40:02.625
which is operationally more mature.

1150
00:40:03.791 --> 00:40:06.041
It's a bit harder, but you

1151
00:40:06.041 --> 00:40:07.416
can sleep safely at night

1152
00:40:07.666 --> 00:40:09.291
knowing that you can restore everything,

1153
00:40:09.291 --> 00:40:10.875
even if it was to burn down,

1154
00:40:11.333 --> 00:40:13.208
because everything is configured,

1155
00:40:13.208 --> 00:40:14.291
everything is backed up.

1156
00:40:14.291 --> 00:40:15.458
You just point to a new cluster,

1157
00:40:15.750 --> 00:40:16.791
everything gets restored

1158
00:40:16.791 --> 00:40:17.875
or you create a new cluster,

1159
00:40:18.291 --> 00:40:19.333
you give it a new config

1160
00:40:19.333 --> 00:40:20.583
and it boots as a new cluster.

1161
00:40:21.416 --> 00:40:23.166
Most of my workloads,

1162
00:40:23.333 --> 00:40:24.541
they have built in a

1163
00:40:24.541 --> 00:40:25.666
way to restore themselves.

1164
00:40:26.291 --> 00:40:27.208
What that means is that

1165
00:40:27.208 --> 00:40:28.250
in the init container,

1166
00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:29.666
when a workload starts,

1167
00:40:30.041 --> 00:40:32.041
it looks if it's the

1168
00:40:32.041 --> 00:40:33.041
first time that it's booted,

1169
00:40:33.416 --> 00:40:35.125
it's like it's a bootstrap phase.

1170
00:40:35.125 --> 00:40:36.250
And if it's a bootstrap phase,

1171
00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:37.750
it will go and restore

1172
00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:40.833
from an S3 compatible API.

1173
00:40:41.833 --> 00:40:42.000
Nice.

1174
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.250
In my case, I use two.

1175
00:40:43.833 --> 00:40:48.000
I use Backblaze B2 and Cloudflare R2.

1176
00:40:48.666 --> 00:40:50.083
And I do this via rclone.

1177
00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:53.291
So rclone is the first thing that restores,

1178
00:40:53.291 --> 00:40:53.916
even MySQL.

1179
00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:55.291
You'd be surprised

1180
00:40:55.291 --> 00:40:56.666
how well this stuff works

1181
00:40:56.666 --> 00:40:57.750
for even for large data,

1182
00:40:58.041 --> 00:40:58.875
because you're pulling

1183
00:40:58.875 --> 00:41:00.875
down from object storage

1184
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:03.000
that is supposed to be performant.

1185
00:41:03.708 --> 00:41:05.208
Backblaze is not as

1186
00:41:05.208 --> 00:41:07.666
performant as Cloudflare R2,

1187
00:41:07.666 --> 00:41:08.666
or at least in my experience,

1188
00:41:08.666 --> 00:41:10.250
but I have both because you

1189
00:41:10.250 --> 00:41:11.541
don't want to put your eggs

1190
00:41:11.541 --> 00:41:13.166
in one basket, especially backups.

1191
00:41:14.041 --> 00:41:15.041
So I have two of

1192
00:41:15.041 --> 00:41:17.000
everything, another rule that I have.

1193
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:18.166
The other one is don't

1194
00:41:18.166 --> 00:41:19.000
do in-place upgrades.

1195
00:41:19.375 --> 00:41:20.333
It's not worth it.

1196
00:41:20.916 --> 00:41:21.916
So when you do an upgrade,

1197
00:41:21.916 --> 00:41:23.458
then you would actually just spin up an

1198
00:41:23.458 --> 00:41:24.708
entirely new cluster?

1199
00:41:25.791 --> 00:41:26.375
Okay.

1200
00:41:26.375 --> 00:41:28.916
So also just like completely new,

1201
00:41:29.208 --> 00:41:30.166
well, not new, but

1202
00:41:30.166 --> 00:41:31.458
like different hardware,

1203
00:41:32.541 --> 00:41:33.750
spin up a new cluster,

1204
00:41:33.750 --> 00:41:35.333
and then you decommission the old one,

1205
00:41:35.333 --> 00:41:37.000
and that becomes your staging cluster.

1206
00:41:37.291 --> 00:41:38.541
I'm thinking of it blue-green,

1207
00:41:38.791 --> 00:41:39.833
but long-term blue-green.

1208
00:41:39.833 --> 00:41:41.500
I'm always between blue and green.

1209
00:41:42.666 --> 00:41:45.041
And it removes all the pressure

1210
00:41:45.166 --> 00:41:46.458
from having to do the

1211
00:41:46.458 --> 00:41:47.583
upgrades straight away.

1212
00:41:47.875 --> 00:41:49.291
It'll either work or not work.

1213
00:41:49.291 --> 00:41:50.916
No, I'm setting things up.

1214
00:41:50.916 --> 00:41:53.000
It's almost like buying a new car,

1215
00:41:53.375 --> 00:41:54.666
but in this case, it's more practical

1216
00:41:54.708 --> 00:41:55.666
because it's not a car.

1217
00:41:56.125 --> 00:41:58.083
You do need to have a bit more hardware,

1218
00:41:58.333 --> 00:41:59.333
but you have that anyway,

1219
00:41:59.333 --> 00:42:01.041
because you have generations of hardware.

1220
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:03.291
You have your old laptop and the older

1221
00:42:03.291 --> 00:42:04.375
laptop and whatever.

1222
00:42:04.708 --> 00:42:06.458
So that's my case as well.

1223
00:42:06.916 --> 00:42:08.500
Also, very controversial,

1224
00:42:09.083 --> 00:42:10.500
my clusters are single-node.

1225
00:42:11.625 --> 00:42:13.125
Ooh, spicy.

1226
00:42:13.458 --> 00:42:13.958
I know, right?

1227
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:16.375
Yeah, you can get some pretty big

1228
00:42:16.375 --> 00:42:17.750
single-node instances.

1229
00:42:18.833 --> 00:42:20.250
And unless you really

1230
00:42:20.250 --> 00:42:21.250
understand your networking

1231
00:42:21.791 --> 00:42:23.541
and can deal with etcd,

1232
00:42:23.833 --> 00:42:26.041
and you can do uneven numbers,

1233
00:42:26.458 --> 00:42:27.666
knowing how Raft works

1234
00:42:27.666 --> 00:42:28.666
and how leader election

1235
00:42:28.666 --> 00:42:29.666
works and all of that,

1236
00:42:30.583 --> 00:42:32.208
you need three, five, seven,

1237
00:42:32.583 --> 00:42:33.583
you're pushing it a bit.

1238
00:42:33.916 --> 00:42:35.125
If you go beyond nine,

1239
00:42:35.541 --> 00:42:36.416
you're basically like

1240
00:42:36.416 --> 00:42:37.375
in a whole new world.

1241
00:42:37.375 --> 00:42:38.958
I think very few have more than nine

1242
00:42:38.958 --> 00:42:40.375
nodes in their homelabs.

1243
00:42:41.333 --> 00:42:42.583
But that should be the absolute limit

1244
00:42:43.333 --> 00:42:44.291
for many reasons.

1245
00:42:45.666 --> 00:42:47.041
These systems are so advanced

1246
00:42:47.041 --> 00:42:48.458
that they will continuously converge,

1247
00:42:48.833 --> 00:42:49.916
and you can have problems

1248
00:42:49.916 --> 00:42:50.833
and not even know that

1249
00:42:50.833 --> 00:42:51.625
you're having problems.

1250
00:42:52.375 --> 00:42:55.208
That's how refined they're getting.

1251
00:42:55.458 --> 00:42:56.958
And usually when you get into DNS

1252
00:42:56.958 --> 00:42:58.875
and if you get into network latencies

1253
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:00.875
and switch upgrades,

1254
00:43:01.166 --> 00:43:02.458
and you have to deal

1255
00:43:02.458 --> 00:43:03.708
with all these scenarios.

1256
00:43:03.708 --> 00:43:06.041
Single-node, you don't.

1257
00:43:06.958 --> 00:43:07.833
In that metric,

1258
00:43:08.041 --> 00:43:10.083
I am currently at four,

1259
00:43:10.083 --> 00:43:12.625
but I had five for a particular reason.

1260
00:43:12.625 --> 00:43:13.791
But you have a single control plane?

1261
00:43:15.208 --> 00:43:15.708
Currently, yes.

1262
00:43:15.791 --> 00:43:16.125
Right.

1263
00:43:16.333 --> 00:43:17.125
So that's slightly different.

1264
00:43:17.708 --> 00:43:18.708
So single control plane,

1265
00:43:18.708 --> 00:43:19.916
that's almost like the middle ground.

1266
00:43:20.416 --> 00:43:22.833
So the control plane is not HA.

1267
00:43:23.333 --> 00:43:25.583
In my case, my control plane is not HA,

1268
00:43:25.875 --> 00:43:27.791
but all my workloads fit

1269
00:43:27.791 --> 00:43:29.000
on the control plane node.

1270
00:43:29.333 --> 00:43:29.791
Yeah, I see.

1271
00:43:30.041 --> 00:43:32.000
And then I have two right now,

1272
00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:33.166
and then basically one

1273
00:43:33.166 --> 00:43:34.083
is blue, one is green.

1274
00:43:34.541 --> 00:43:35.625
So I have two home labs,

1275
00:43:35.750 --> 00:43:37.000
and I just switch between them.

1276
00:43:37.625 --> 00:43:39.500
And it takes me months to

1277
00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:40.500
go from one to the other.

1278
00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:41.333
So nothing is rushed.

1279
00:43:41.708 --> 00:43:43.458
I can experiment, I can try things out.

1280
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.333
And if one was to break,

1281
00:43:45.333 --> 00:43:46.083
I always have like a

1282
00:43:46.083 --> 00:43:47.250
spare that I can go back to.

1283
00:43:47.458 --> 00:43:48.041
That's the other thing.

1284
00:43:48.541 --> 00:43:51.333
I used to have a staging cluster

1285
00:43:51.666 --> 00:43:53.791
and that ran exactly the same.

1286
00:43:54.375 --> 00:43:56.333
And I would just then update the GitOps

1287
00:43:56.333 --> 00:43:57.958
for the production one

1288
00:43:57.958 --> 00:43:58.875
if everything went right.

1289
00:43:59.833 --> 00:44:00.958
However, I actually

1290
00:44:00.958 --> 00:44:03.041
started needing to expand

1291
00:44:03.041 --> 00:44:05.083
my production cluster with extra nodes.

1292
00:44:05.125 --> 00:44:07.416
And I cannibalized some from my staging.

1293
00:44:07.916 --> 00:44:08.833
And so that one's not

1294
00:44:08.833 --> 00:44:09.750
operational anymore.

1295
00:44:10.875 --> 00:44:11.958
And to give you an

1296
00:44:11.958 --> 00:44:13.666
alternative perspective

1297
00:44:13.666 --> 00:44:16.916
on not doing in-place upgrades,

1298
00:44:17.875 --> 00:44:19.958
I found that it makes

1299
00:44:19.958 --> 00:44:21.750
me think about my systems

1300
00:44:21.750 --> 00:44:25.000
to have them more

1301
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.000
resilient and easier to restore.

1302
00:44:27.916 --> 00:44:30.083
And I'm not in the stage where I have

1303
00:44:30.083 --> 00:44:31.833
auto restore like you,

1304
00:44:32.333 --> 00:44:34.208
but what I emphasize a

1305
00:44:34.208 --> 00:44:36.041
lot on my current cluster

1306
00:44:36.125 --> 00:44:38.041
is I don't want to have anything

1307
00:44:38.041 --> 00:44:40.000
persistent outside of databases.

1308
00:44:41.458 --> 00:44:43.208
So my databases are

1309
00:44:43.208 --> 00:44:45.791
running in with the EDB operator,

1310
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:46.666
Enterprise DB.

1311
00:44:47.833 --> 00:44:48.958
And then using Barman,

1312
00:44:49.208 --> 00:44:53.041
I'm also storing those in object storage.

1313
00:44:54.208 --> 00:44:56.625
And that has been a really good exercise

1314
00:44:56.916 --> 00:44:58.291
like four times already.

1315
00:44:58.583 --> 00:45:00.375
I lost all of my databases

1316
00:45:00.791 --> 00:45:03.541
because I was a bit too experimental.

1317
00:45:03.541 --> 00:45:04.083
Tinkering.

1318
00:45:04.083 --> 00:45:04.750
You were tinkering.

1319
00:45:04.958 --> 00:45:05.500
Yeah, it happens.

1320
00:45:06.291 --> 00:45:06.958
That's how you know that

1321
00:45:06.958 --> 00:45:08.208
you're tinkering the right way.

1322
00:45:08.208 --> 00:45:09.000
When you break stuff,

1323
00:45:09.250 --> 00:45:10.208
you're pushing the limits.

1324
00:45:11.041 --> 00:45:12.541
So I've actually gained a lot of

1325
00:45:12.541 --> 00:45:14.083
confidence in my setup now

1326
00:45:14.083 --> 00:45:14.916
that I can actually

1327
00:45:14.916 --> 00:45:16.583
just delete the whole thing

1328
00:45:16.708 --> 00:45:18.833
and then restore it from object storage

1329
00:45:18.916 --> 00:45:20.583
because everything is in databases.

1330
00:45:21.083 --> 00:45:24.083
And anyone who's listening to this

1331
00:45:24.083 --> 00:45:26.416
databases on Kubernetes

1332
00:45:26.416 --> 00:45:27.458
is easier than you think.

1333
00:45:27.875 --> 00:45:30.625
And it works extremely well with the

1334
00:45:30.625 --> 00:45:31.500
Barman object store.

1335
00:45:31.791 --> 00:45:32.791
It's that.

1336
00:45:33.333 --> 00:45:36.250
I'm so, so excited about it.

1337
00:45:36.250 --> 00:45:36.833
It's super cool.

1338
00:45:37.708 --> 00:45:39.333
In my last Homelab

1339
00:45:39.333 --> 00:45:42.166
presentation, which I gave at Taloscon,

1340
00:45:43.875 --> 00:45:46.041
I use CloudNativePG, but

1341
00:45:46.041 --> 00:45:47.708
also Barman and object storage.

1342
00:45:48.208 --> 00:45:50.708
And that's exactly how I migrated from

1343
00:45:50.708 --> 00:45:51.750
homelab to production.

1344
00:45:52.333 --> 00:45:54.083
Because in this case on homelab,

1345
00:45:54.083 --> 00:45:54.875
I was running a workload

1346
00:45:54.875 --> 00:45:56.250
that was backing out via Barman

1347
00:45:56.791 --> 00:46:00.166
to R2, Cloudflare R2 in this case.

1348
00:46:00.875 --> 00:46:01.958
And when I set up production,

1349
00:46:02.291 --> 00:46:03.166
I was restoring

1350
00:46:03.166 --> 00:46:04.791
everything exactly the same way.

1351
00:46:05.166 --> 00:46:07.250
Would you recommend iscsi-tools?

1352
00:46:08.250 --> 00:46:09.416
Would you recommend it?

1353
00:46:09.416 --> 00:46:10.333
Like does it work well,

1354
00:46:10.333 --> 00:46:11.416
the extension in Talos

1355
00:46:11.416 --> 00:46:12.458
and like the whole setup?

1356
00:46:12.458 --> 00:46:13.250
Because I'm thinking of

1357
00:46:13.250 --> 00:46:14.291
setting up the same thing.

1358
00:46:14.291 --> 00:46:15.250
I don't have that yet.

1359
00:46:16.791 --> 00:46:18.083
But would you recommend it?

1360
00:46:18.541 --> 00:46:20.000
Like I can't speak to

1361
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.791
iSCSI tools specifically

1362
00:46:22.208 --> 00:46:24.333
because I just run that and it works.

1363
00:46:24.375 --> 00:46:26.208
So I have a Synology NAS,

1364
00:46:27.250 --> 00:46:31.416
and then I use the iSCSI tools in Talos

1365
00:46:32.291 --> 00:46:33.666
that needs to be installed.

1366
00:46:33.666 --> 00:46:36.375
And then there is a CSI driver for

1367
00:46:36.375 --> 00:46:38.125
Synology for Kubernetes.

1368
00:46:39.166 --> 00:46:41.083
And that allows me to

1369
00:46:41.083 --> 00:46:44.291
provision persistent volumes

1370
00:46:44.458 --> 00:46:45.833
on my Synology NAS.

1371
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:48.291
And I must say I'm really

1372
00:46:48.291 --> 00:46:49.500
impressed how well that works.

1373
00:46:50.041 --> 00:46:51.416
I know that you started with Argo CD,

1374
00:46:52.875 --> 00:46:54.041
but you're currently using Flux.

1375
00:46:54.791 --> 00:46:55.000
Yes.

1376
00:46:55.291 --> 00:46:55.625
Why?

1377
00:46:56.791 --> 00:46:59.208
I work with Argo CD at work.

1378
00:46:59.750 --> 00:47:01.750
And when I first learned Kubernetes,

1379
00:47:01.750 --> 00:47:04.416
I was super excited about Argo with UI.

1380
00:47:04.958 --> 00:47:07.250
And still, it's like a fantastic tool.

1381
00:47:07.625 --> 00:47:10.333
That was my first GitOps exposure.

1382
00:47:11.041 --> 00:47:11.958
But then I'm a

1383
00:47:11.958 --> 00:47:13.625
specialist in Microsoft Azure,

1384
00:47:13.875 --> 00:47:15.750
and I'm also a Microsoft MVP.

1385
00:47:16.333 --> 00:47:18.125
So I focus a lot on

1386
00:47:18.125 --> 00:47:19.708
Azure Kubernetes Service.

1387
00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:21.458
And in terms of

1388
00:47:21.458 --> 00:47:23.250
enterprise-grade Kubernetes,

1389
00:47:23.333 --> 00:47:27.125
I like to, like, as I mentioned before,

1390
00:47:27.333 --> 00:47:29.541
I like to explore and experiment,

1391
00:47:30.250 --> 00:47:32.041
but I also need to focus myself.

1392
00:47:32.375 --> 00:47:33.541
If not, I get too broad

1393
00:47:33.541 --> 00:47:34.583
and I just get overwhelmed.

1394
00:47:35.333 --> 00:47:36.125
So in terms of

1395
00:47:36.125 --> 00:47:37.750
production-grade Kubernetes,

1396
00:47:37.750 --> 00:47:39.041
I decided to focus on

1397
00:47:39.041 --> 00:47:40.375
that ecosystem for a while,

1398
00:47:41.250 --> 00:47:42.000
which has been a good

1399
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:43.166
decision in my case.

1400
00:47:44.041 --> 00:47:46.083
And the native GitOps

1401
00:47:46.083 --> 00:47:48.875
offering in AKS uses Flux,

1402
00:47:49.375 --> 00:47:50.916
which I was very surprised by

1403
00:47:50.958 --> 00:47:53.833
when I first tried that out.

1404
00:47:54.500 --> 00:47:56.000
Like: "Oh, that's an interesting choice.

1405
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.666
Why wouldn't they go for Argo CD?"

1406
00:47:58.041 --> 00:47:58.958
And I don't have the

1407
00:47:58.958 --> 00:47:59.833
answer to that question.

1408
00:48:00.791 --> 00:48:03.083
But all I know is that when I started it,

1409
00:48:03.083 --> 00:48:05.916
I was really surprised how well it works

1410
00:48:06.041 --> 00:48:08.458
and how well it fit me.

1411
00:48:08.458 --> 00:48:10.125
It fit me better than Argo CD.

1412
00:48:11.625 --> 00:48:12.250
What specifically

1413
00:48:12.250 --> 00:48:13.333
about it fit you better?

1414
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.291
Argo CD has a beautiful UI,

1415
00:48:16.958 --> 00:48:18.958
which makes the

1416
00:48:18.958 --> 00:48:22.000
navigation of a Kubernetes cluster

1417
00:48:22.458 --> 00:48:24.041
possible almost

1418
00:48:24.041 --> 00:48:27.083
exclusively through the UI.

1419
00:48:27.375 --> 00:48:28.250
So you can do almost

1420
00:48:28.250 --> 00:48:30.583
everything through the Argo CD UI.

1421
00:48:31.416 --> 00:48:33.166
And I noticed at work as well

1422
00:48:33.333 --> 00:48:34.625
that I was kind of

1423
00:48:34.625 --> 00:48:36.958
losing my CLI ninja skills

1424
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:38.541
in terms of kubectl

1425
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.708
because I was deploying

1426
00:48:41.708 --> 00:48:43.250
so much through Argo CD,

1427
00:48:43.250 --> 00:48:45.125
which was, I saw as a problem.

1428
00:48:46.041 --> 00:48:48.250
And what I like with Flux

1429
00:48:49.083 --> 00:48:51.583
is that it's much more CLI focused.

1430
00:48:51.958 --> 00:48:53.708
And of course, like, usually you're not

1431
00:48:53.708 --> 00:48:54.875
actually interacting

1432
00:48:54.875 --> 00:48:56.291
with the cluster in that way.

1433
00:48:56.916 --> 00:48:59.333
But in terms of my homelab experience,

1434
00:48:59.500 --> 00:49:02.583
I want to be in there and tinkering

1435
00:49:02.583 --> 00:49:04.791
and just talking to my cluster directly.

1436
00:49:05.750 --> 00:49:07.916
And then the Flux CLI

1437
00:49:07.916 --> 00:49:09.875
felt very intuitive to me,

1438
00:49:09.875 --> 00:49:11.125
even though Argo CD also

1439
00:49:11.125 --> 00:49:12.750
has a CLI, I'm aware of that.

1440
00:49:13.416 --> 00:49:15.000
But the way how Flux does

1441
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:16.708
it with the custom resources

1442
00:49:16.708 --> 00:49:19.291
such as Helm releases and Kustomizations,

1443
00:49:20.458 --> 00:49:23.041
and being able to check those resources

1444
00:49:23.166 --> 00:49:24.875
and Git repos, all of that,

1445
00:49:25.416 --> 00:49:27.625
I really like the way how that is set up.

1446
00:49:28.583 --> 00:49:34.083
And also, I completely love the way

1447
00:49:34.625 --> 00:49:37.000
how Flux bootstraps onto clusters,

1448
00:49:37.291 --> 00:49:39.458
how you can make your cluster like a

1449
00:49:39.458 --> 00:49:40.916
self-feeding machine.

1450
00:49:40.916 --> 00:49:42.875
It's just super awesome.

1451
00:49:43.291 --> 00:49:44.458
Okay, interesting.

1452
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:45.875
How was the migration

1453
00:49:45.875 --> 00:49:47.375
from Argo CD to Flux?

1454
00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:49.750
Because you had like a bunch of things

1455
00:49:49.750 --> 00:49:51.958
all declared in Argo CD, I imagine.

1456
00:49:53.041 --> 00:49:55.708
Was it straightforward to migrate to Flux?

1457
00:49:56.375 --> 00:49:58.541
At that point, when I was using Argo CD,

1458
00:49:58.625 --> 00:50:00.750
I was getting very Helm focused.

1459
00:50:01.750 --> 00:50:03.666
And at some point, I realized,

1460
00:50:03.666 --> 00:50:05.500
well, not everything that I want to run

1461
00:50:05.500 --> 00:50:07.916
has Helm charts readily available to me.

1462
00:50:08.708 --> 00:50:12.125
So I need to dig deeper into this.

1463
00:50:12.791 --> 00:50:14.416
Then at the same time,

1464
00:50:14.416 --> 00:50:15.583
I was discovering Flux.

1465
00:50:16.041 --> 00:50:17.666
And there is a lot of

1466
00:50:17.666 --> 00:50:19.083
emphasis on Kustomize.

1467
00:50:19.500 --> 00:50:20.291
Basically, everything

1468
00:50:20.291 --> 00:50:22.291
works with Kustomizations.

1469
00:50:23.416 --> 00:50:25.166
That was basically an incentive to

1470
00:50:25.166 --> 00:50:26.333
finally learn Kustomize.

1471
00:50:26.708 --> 00:50:27.416
I had been putting it

1472
00:50:27.416 --> 00:50:29.208
off for the longest time.

1473
00:50:29.458 --> 00:50:31.333
I just tore everything down and rewrote

1474
00:50:31.333 --> 00:50:32.541
everything in Kustomize,

1475
00:50:32.791 --> 00:50:35.416
which has been a really good experience

1476
00:50:35.750 --> 00:50:37.291
in terms of my development.

1477
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:39.708
And Kubernetes learning.

1478
00:50:39.750 --> 00:50:41.208
When Rio mentioned you,

1479
00:50:41.666 --> 00:50:43.458
he caught my attention.

1480
00:50:44.333 --> 00:50:47.083
And that was him mentioning how you spent

1481
00:50:47.083 --> 00:50:49.666
nine years in Norway.

1482
00:50:50.375 --> 00:50:51.333
Roaming the wilderness.

1483
00:50:52.041 --> 00:50:52.333
Yeah.

1484
00:50:52.958 --> 00:50:53.875
Reconnecting with yourself,

1485
00:50:54.750 --> 00:50:55.625
reconnecting with the nature

1486
00:50:56.250 --> 00:50:58.416
and remembering what is really important.

1487
00:50:59.083 --> 00:51:01.541
Well, I must say, like, it wasn't that I

1488
00:51:01.541 --> 00:51:03.125
was doing that full time, right?

1489
00:51:03.250 --> 00:51:04.041
I was just living

1490
00:51:04.041 --> 00:51:05.875
a normal life and working.

1491
00:51:06.583 --> 00:51:08.958
But basically, if I wasn't

1492
00:51:08.958 --> 00:51:10.291
like tinkering with computers

1493
00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:13.375
during the evenings in the week,

1494
00:51:14.083 --> 00:51:15.791
every holiday, every weekend,

1495
00:51:16.125 --> 00:51:18.250
every opportunity I got

1496
00:51:18.250 --> 00:51:19.583
was spent being in nature.

1497
00:51:19.583 --> 00:51:20.750
was spent being in nature.

1498
00:51:21.541 --> 00:51:24.583
This will sound so cliché.

1499
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:27.083
But one of the reasons that got me into

1500
00:51:27.083 --> 00:51:29.083
this was the movie "Into the Wild".

1501
00:51:30.208 --> 00:51:32.666
And just that phrase, "into the wild,"

1502
00:51:33.666 --> 00:51:36.333
I have since become less of a fan of

1503
00:51:36.333 --> 00:51:37.833
Mr. Christopher McCandless,

1504
00:51:37.833 --> 00:51:38.750
who actually turned

1505
00:51:38.750 --> 00:51:40.791
out to be rather stupid.

1506
00:51:40.791 --> 00:51:44.208
But when I was young, I didn't actually

1507
00:51:44.208 --> 00:51:46.625
appreciate his mistakes.

1508
00:51:46.875 --> 00:51:48.125
Let's keep it that way.

1509
00:51:49.083 --> 00:51:51.208
But that idea of being

1510
00:51:51.208 --> 00:51:53.250
out and being self-reliant,

1511
00:51:53.250 --> 00:51:54.333
that really applied

1512
00:51:54.333 --> 00:51:56.833
to me, and spoke to me.

1513
00:51:57.708 --> 00:51:58.208
And...

1514
00:51:59.458 --> 00:52:01.166
I have since come to realize that

1515
00:52:01.166 --> 00:52:02.791
that is also not possible.

1516
00:52:02.958 --> 00:52:04.791
So that's also why I was...

1517
00:52:05.375 --> 00:52:07.208
that I went back, basically.

1518
00:52:08.208 --> 00:52:11.541
But the idea of the experience of just

1519
00:52:11.541 --> 00:52:13.250
strapping on a backpack

1520
00:52:13.583 --> 00:52:15.583
and driving your car somewhere with a

1521
00:52:15.583 --> 00:52:17.583
vague idea of what you're going to do.

1522
00:52:18.250 --> 00:52:20.416
And then I would just bring a sack of

1523
00:52:20.416 --> 00:52:23.458
oatmeal and my fishing pole.

1524
00:52:24.250 --> 00:52:26.125
And I have since turned plant based,

1525
00:52:26.125 --> 00:52:27.041
but then I was still

1526
00:52:27.041 --> 00:52:29.833
killing animals and eating them.

1527
00:52:30.333 --> 00:52:34.291
But that did allow me to be out there

1528
00:52:34.291 --> 00:52:36.875
alone on a self-reliant matter.

1529
00:52:38.375 --> 00:52:40.583
And when you do that, then you...

1530
00:52:41.125 --> 00:52:42.916
No phone, alone,

1531
00:52:43.125 --> 00:52:45.333
in the wilderness, no people.

1532
00:52:46.708 --> 00:52:47.875
First of all, you become

1533
00:52:47.875 --> 00:52:49.500
really aware what you're doing,

1534
00:52:49.541 --> 00:52:53.083
because if you make a wrong step and you

1535
00:52:53.083 --> 00:52:54.833
fall, you break your leg.

1536
00:52:55.208 --> 00:52:57.500
And that is almost

1537
00:52:57.500 --> 00:52:59.375
certainly going to be your death.

1538
00:52:59.500 --> 00:53:00.750
So you have to be...

1539
00:53:00.791 --> 00:53:02.291
You have to know what you're doing.

1540
00:53:03.083 --> 00:53:04.166
And you have to be really

1541
00:53:04.166 --> 00:53:05.666
aware of what you're doing.

1542
00:53:06.500 --> 00:53:07.666
And when you're out there

1543
00:53:07.666 --> 00:53:09.083
not talking to people,

1544
00:53:09.291 --> 00:53:10.500
just there with your own

1545
00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:12.375
thoughts, things emerge

1546
00:53:12.625 --> 00:53:14.708
that would not emerge in the

1547
00:53:14.833 --> 00:53:16.750
day-to-day stress & busyness

1548
00:53:16.750 --> 00:53:18.000
that we all experience.

1549
00:53:19.291 --> 00:53:20.666
And I've had some very

1550
00:53:20.666 --> 00:53:23.125
deep philosophical insights

1551
00:53:23.625 --> 00:53:26.416
and discoveries about my own life.

1552
00:53:27.125 --> 00:53:29.916
Just sitting there, by the water, staring

1553
00:53:29.916 --> 00:53:32.125
into the fire that I built myself...

1554
00:53:34.750 --> 00:53:36.041
for hours on end.

1555
00:53:36.333 --> 00:53:37.875
And you'll be amazed what

1556
00:53:37.875 --> 00:53:40.458
the mind then brings up to you.

1557
00:53:40.791 --> 00:53:42.291
So that's an indication

1558
00:53:42.291 --> 00:53:43.416
of what that was like.

1559
00:53:43.875 --> 00:53:44.708
Do you still do that?

1560
00:53:44.916 --> 00:53:47.833
I mean, do you still make time for going

1561
00:53:47.833 --> 00:53:50.250
out there and being with yourself?

1562
00:53:50.250 --> 00:53:51.708
No phone, no people.

1563
00:53:52.458 --> 00:53:54.750
I think an extension of this whole

1564
00:53:54.750 --> 00:53:57.291
wilderness roaming that I did

1565
00:53:57.291 --> 00:54:00.375
was that I got really into meditation and

1566
00:54:00.375 --> 00:54:02.500
Buddhist meditation specifically.

1567
00:54:03.666 --> 00:54:05.125
And I have now found ways

1568
00:54:05.125 --> 00:54:06.750
of getting that experience

1569
00:54:07.416 --> 00:54:10.000
decoupled from being in nature that way.

1570
00:54:11.041 --> 00:54:14.041
So I'm a very consistent meditator.

1571
00:54:14.083 --> 00:54:16.166
I meditate for several

1572
00:54:16.166 --> 00:54:18.458
hours on end sometimes.

1573
00:54:18.958 --> 00:54:20.916
And I moved back to the Netherlands,

1574
00:54:20.916 --> 00:54:23.208
and here nature is much

1575
00:54:23.208 --> 00:54:24.541
more difficult to find.

1576
00:54:24.666 --> 00:54:25.875
It's here, I have

1577
00:54:25.875 --> 00:54:27.458
nice areas around me,

1578
00:54:27.458 --> 00:54:31.791
but I do really miss being in the forest

1579
00:54:31.791 --> 00:54:33.083
and just knowing that

1580
00:54:33.083 --> 00:54:34.125
you are alone there.

1581
00:54:34.416 --> 00:54:36.333
And the idea that you cannot

1582
00:54:36.333 --> 00:54:37.500
meet anyone,

1583
00:54:37.833 --> 00:54:38.666
or it's not likely

1584
00:54:38.666 --> 00:54:39.791
that you'll meet everyone.

1585
00:54:39.791 --> 00:54:40.875
Like here in the Netherlands, there's

1586
00:54:40.875 --> 00:54:42.166
always someone around you.

1587
00:54:42.875 --> 00:54:44.375
I did go back to

1588
00:54:44.375 --> 00:54:46.375
Norway a couple-- one year ago.

1589
00:54:46.708 --> 00:54:47.833
I spent three weeks

1590
00:54:47.833 --> 00:54:49.625
driving around and just roaming

1591
00:54:49.875 --> 00:54:52.375
and having the time of my life.

1592
00:54:52.666 --> 00:54:55.125
Last year, I didn't do it, and now it's

1593
00:54:55.125 --> 00:54:56.416
really itching to go back.

1594
00:54:56.833 --> 00:54:57.708
So I try.

1595
00:54:58.208 --> 00:55:00.416
I know that each of us has a

1596
00:55:00.416 --> 00:55:02.250
place where we feel at home.

1597
00:55:03.333 --> 00:55:05.833
And it's rarely where home is.

1598
00:55:06.291 --> 00:55:08.500
It's usually like somewhere maybe nearby,

1599
00:55:08.708 --> 00:55:09.375
or it can be a

1600
00:55:09.375 --> 00:55:10.375
different country for sure.

1601
00:55:11.375 --> 00:55:12.250
But when you're there,

1602
00:55:12.250 --> 00:55:13.125
you feel like you're home,

1603
00:55:13.125 --> 00:55:15.000
and it's very hard to explain because

1604
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:16.041
everything is the way

1605
00:55:16.041 --> 00:55:17.000
it's supposed to be.

1606
00:55:17.583 --> 00:55:19.666
Everything smells right, it sounds right,

1607
00:55:19.958 --> 00:55:22.333
you feel very at ease with yourself.

1608
00:55:23.291 --> 00:55:26.208
Is Norway that place for you?

1609
00:55:29.916 --> 00:55:31.500
That's a deep question.

1610
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.708
That's one that I...

1611
00:55:33.625 --> 00:55:34.958
Like Norway is

1612
00:55:34.958 --> 00:55:36.666
extremely close to my heart.

1613
00:55:37.541 --> 00:55:39.208
Like one experience that I had

1614
00:55:40.125 --> 00:55:43.541
was when I moved back home,

1615
00:55:43.541 --> 00:55:45.000
I hadn't visited for two years.

1616
00:55:45.333 --> 00:55:46.750
And then last year, I went there

1617
00:55:46.750 --> 00:55:48.166
and I drove off the boat

1618
00:55:48.166 --> 00:55:51.500
and it felt like it didn't feel special.

1619
00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:53.083
That was interesting.

1620
00:55:53.083 --> 00:55:54.583
It felt like, oh, I'm here again.

1621
00:55:55.416 --> 00:55:58.791
So in that sense, yes, it does feel like home.

1622
00:55:59.750 --> 00:56:02.250
But I'm also really starting

1623
00:56:02.250 --> 00:56:04.583
to like my little boring life

1624
00:56:04.583 --> 00:56:06.541
in just a one-room apartment

1625
00:56:06.541 --> 00:56:07.000
and focusing on my

1626
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:08.375
and focusing on my

1627
00:56:08.375 --> 00:56:09.708
business and the technology

1628
00:56:09.708 --> 00:56:12.333
and having a more

1629
00:56:12.333 --> 00:56:14.083
routine life in that sense.

1630
00:56:14.666 --> 00:56:16.250
I think this is potentially

1631
00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:18.041
the most important takeaway

1632
00:56:18.291 --> 00:56:19.541
from our conversation.

1633
00:56:20.916 --> 00:56:21.875
Going outside.

1634
00:56:22.375 --> 00:56:23.208
Slowing down.

1635
00:56:24.041 --> 00:56:25.458
You don't necessarily have to go outside,

1636
00:56:25.458 --> 00:56:26.208
but usually it helps.

1637
00:56:26.666 --> 00:56:28.916
Slowing down your mind, and...

1638
00:56:29.833 --> 00:56:31.041
finding your happy place.

1639
00:56:31.916 --> 00:56:32.833
It's usually in your mind.

1640
00:56:32.875 --> 00:56:33.750
The happy place is in

1641
00:56:33.750 --> 00:56:34.916
your mind, by the way.

1642
00:56:35.333 --> 00:56:37.708
Outside, walking, being...

1643
00:56:38.125 --> 00:56:39.625
free from distractions

1644
00:56:39.791 --> 00:56:42.500
usually helps that surface.

1645
00:56:42.708 --> 00:56:43.458
But ultimately, you

1646
00:56:43.458 --> 00:56:44.333
still have to do the work

1647
00:56:44.333 --> 00:56:46.583
and you still have to settle your mind

1648
00:56:46.666 --> 00:56:50.291
and go through all the steps.

1649
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.625
But it's definitely out there.

1650
00:56:52.916 --> 00:56:53.750
Everyone has it.

1651
00:56:54.333 --> 00:56:55.833
Yes. And nature is a

1652
00:56:55.833 --> 00:56:57.708
great facilitator for that.

1653
00:56:58.458 --> 00:57:01.041
And I think in my case, nature was the

1654
00:57:01.041 --> 00:57:02.583
gateway to inner peace.

1655
00:57:03.541 --> 00:57:05.791
Nature was the place where

1656
00:57:05.791 --> 00:57:08.250
I could disconnect that way

1657
00:57:08.250 --> 00:57:11.208
and sit by the fire and experience that.

1658
00:57:11.875 --> 00:57:14.875
And still, of course,

1659
00:57:14.875 --> 00:57:16.500
still nature is that for me.

1660
00:57:16.791 --> 00:57:17.791
Last year I was there,

1661
00:57:18.291 --> 00:57:20.291
I walked 150 kilometers

1662
00:57:20.500 --> 00:57:23.250
in the mountains and just alone.

1663
00:57:23.500 --> 00:57:25.166
It makes you feel very small

1664
00:57:25.166 --> 00:57:26.458
when you're in those big mountains

1665
00:57:26.666 --> 00:57:28.416
and a thunderstorm breaks out

1666
00:57:28.583 --> 00:57:30.208
and it puts so many

1667
00:57:30.208 --> 00:57:32.083
things into perspective.

1668
00:57:32.750 --> 00:57:35.583
And how powerful those forces are

1669
00:57:36.083 --> 00:57:37.833
and how little we are

1670
00:57:37.833 --> 00:57:39.083
in comparison to that.

1671
00:57:39.416 --> 00:57:42.625
That is also very healthy for me

1672
00:57:42.625 --> 00:57:43.833
to have that humbling

1673
00:57:43.833 --> 00:57:45.958
experience every once in a while.

1674
00:57:46.416 --> 00:57:48.000
That's it. And when you come back

1675
00:57:48.833 --> 00:57:50.791
to whatever you normally do,

1676
00:57:51.083 --> 00:57:52.333
you'll be so much more productive

1677
00:57:52.416 --> 00:57:53.916
and things will flow a lot better

1678
00:57:54.041 --> 00:57:55.958
because your mind took a break.

1679
00:57:56.416 --> 00:57:57.041
Absolutely.

1680
00:57:57.750 --> 00:57:59.958
Okay. Well, Mischa, thank you very much

1681
00:57:59.958 --> 00:58:00.791
for joining me today.

1682
00:58:01.416 --> 00:58:03.541
It's been a pleasure talking to you,

1683
00:58:03.958 --> 00:58:05.666
looking at your homelab, you know...

1684
00:58:06.083 --> 00:58:06.958
Going through that

1685
00:58:06.958 --> 00:58:08.916
stopping and starting phase.

1686
00:58:08.916 --> 00:58:09.833
That was very, very fun.

1687
00:58:10.250 --> 00:58:11.250
And I'm very much

1688
00:58:11.250 --> 00:58:12.291
looking forward to the next one

1689
00:58:12.291 --> 00:58:13.583
because I haven't shared mine yet.

1690
00:58:14.041 --> 00:58:16.500
I mean, I really look

1691
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:18.083
forward to seeing your homelab.

1692
00:58:18.458 --> 00:58:21.541
And we have to do a round three.

1693
00:58:22.208 --> 00:58:23.708
We will. Yeah. Yeah.

1694
00:58:24.041 --> 00:58:25.083
For sure. Thank you.

1695
00:58:25.291 --> 00:58:26.125
I'll see you next time.

1696
00:58:26.750 --> 00:58:28.125
Thank you, Gerhard. Bye-bye.