WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:11.660
Silvercore Podcast.

00:00:13.310 --> 00:00:15.140
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.690
hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

00:00:17.690 --> 00:00:20.090
people in businesses that
comprise the community.

00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:22.790
If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

00:00:22.790 --> 00:00:26.990
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

00:00:26.990 --> 00:00:29.300
you can learn more about
courses, services, and

00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:31.490
products that we offer
as well as how you can

00:00:31.490 --> 00:00:34.129
join The Silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million

00:00:34.130 --> 00:00:36.580
in north America wide
liability insurance, to

00:00:36.580 --> 00:00:38.840
ensure you are properly
covered during your

00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:39.710
outdoor adventures.

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Today, I'm joined by
a modern day warrior,

00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:50.710
retired RCMP Sergeant
Major  Seb Lavoie, who

00:00:50.770 --> 00:00:53.150
DM'd me that rather
intriguing message.

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"I'm about to change the
face of leadership and

00:00:55.550 --> 00:00:56.600
policing in the country.

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Do you want this scoop?"

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Seb, welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast.

00:01:01.010 --> 00:01:01.640
Good morning.

00:01:01.670 --> 00:01:02.480
Thank you for having me.

00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:03.260
Good morning.

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Wow.

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So for the listeners,
and you've been doing a

00:01:08.090 --> 00:01:11.690
few podcasts recently,
I've been watching the

00:01:11.690 --> 00:01:13.730
progression over the
last couple of years

00:01:13.730 --> 00:01:15.680
of the podcasts that
you've been doing.

00:01:16.965 --> 00:01:19.035
You've got a very
interesting background.

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You've probably told
it a large number of

00:01:21.975 --> 00:01:24.345
times now, but would
you like to give a

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quick thumbnail just
so the listeners have

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an idea of who you are?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I'm, Seb Lavoie, I,
um, retired recently

00:01:33.755 --> 00:01:36.335
retired from the
RCMP after 20 years.

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I spent the majority of
that in, um, tactical

00:01:41.225 --> 00:01:44.855
units, um, either in a
covert capacity or on the

00:01:44.855 --> 00:01:47.105
Lower Mainland emergency
response team, which is

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a full time, uh, tactical
unit here in, in Canada,

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NBC, it's now referred
to as the integrated

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emergency response team.

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Cause there, there are a
few municipal departments

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that are a part of it.

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And, um, I spent 13
years on the team, seven

00:02:03.664 --> 00:02:08.164
years as a team leader,
um, 2019 moved on to

00:02:08.164 --> 00:02:10.535
become the divisional
Sergeant Major for the

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province of British
Columbia and retired two

00:02:14.880 --> 00:02:15.780
and a half years later.

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Wow.

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On top, on top of
my, uh, as far as

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I was going to go.

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Wow.

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So very storied career.

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And you know, some
people might look at this

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and say, man, this guy
must have horse shoes.

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Look at this, he goes
to Depot, and I think

00:02:32.329 --> 00:02:34.850
you were stationed
in Tofino to begin

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with, beautiful place.

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Do you surf?

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I do not.

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Oh.

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Yeah.

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I do not.

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I had, uh, you know, I
tried while I was there

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and, um, I had a near
drowning experience and,

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and really, to be honest,
we, we just didn't have

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the time at the time,
the numbers just weren't

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conducive to us having
the ability to kind

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of go out and really
enjoy the outdoors.

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It took me years to go
back there and really

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look at it and go,
man, what have I done?

00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:03.560
Near drowning experience.

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Was that just
swimming or out there.

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No.

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Surfing?

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Surfing.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It, can.

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I get a few of those
actually I have

00:03:09.859 --> 00:03:11.510
another one diving
and one surfing.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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I've had a couple a near
drowning experiences.

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And it's not quite what
most people, it's not

00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.480
how you would imagine
a drowning experience.

00:03:21.019 --> 00:03:23.240
When you actually
start to drown, it's

00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:24.440
actually rather relaxing.

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It's, there, there's
I don't want to

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say panic about it.

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Maybe there is, um, uh,
organized, um, energy

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to try and stay afloat
and not go under.

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But once the oxygen
starts to deplete and

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it feels like anyways,
that you're inhaling

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the water, um, things
get a little bit calmer.

00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:48.510
I don't know if you had
the same experience.

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I  wasn't quite
that close no.

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Thankfully.

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Thankfully.

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Well, I guess where
I was going with that

00:03:56.630 --> 00:03:59.330
was, well, some people
might say that you have

00:03:59.540 --> 00:04:02.180
horseshoes because you're
deployed in these great

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places and you've had
some very story career

00:04:04.580 --> 00:04:08.960
in some very interesting,
uh, deployments.

00:04:10.160 --> 00:04:12.890
I look at this as
something that you've

00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:16.370
strove for, that you've
worked very hard for.

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And while there may
be an element of luck

00:04:19.100 --> 00:04:20.210
somewhere along the way.

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I that's only because
preparation and all

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the prior planning that
you put together kind

00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:27.560
of fell into place.

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And now as a retired
Sergeant Major, you have

00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.100
started a new company,
Raven Strategic, can

00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:38.270
you tell me about this?

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Correct.

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Uh, this is, uh,
evidently a work in

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progress now, but,
um, what it is now in

00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:48.500
sort of the bulk of
what I'm doing is, uh,

00:04:48.530 --> 00:04:50.280
leadership, sort of.

00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:52.469
There's I have three
modules, so three

00:04:52.469 --> 00:04:53.130
different modules.

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So one of them is a
leadership introspection,

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and this is a very,
very recent here.

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Right.

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One of them is
essentially a leadership

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introspection where we go
in, whether it's a, uh,

00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:03.450
in a police environment
or in a corporate

00:05:03.630 --> 00:05:07.710
environment, and
essentially use, uh, my

00:05:07.710 --> 00:05:10.950
experience in, in dealing
with critical incidents

00:05:10.950 --> 00:05:13.920
where consequences are
dire as in the, how the,

00:05:14.190 --> 00:05:17.250
you know, the leadership
is held to the fire so to

00:05:17.250 --> 00:05:19.800
speak all along the way,
as they are developing

00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:22.890
to go and assist other
leaders in looking

00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:26.039
inwards in, in, instead
of, when assessing their

00:05:26.039 --> 00:05:28.469
own leadership, instead
of looking out and

00:05:28.469 --> 00:05:31.590
deflecting and disabling
and having an ego.

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So what we're doing
is basically what

00:05:34.469 --> 00:05:37.050
can you do today to
make your leadership

00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:39.570
better without, without
waiting for anybody

00:05:39.570 --> 00:05:42.150
to inject on in your
world and, and provide

00:05:42.150 --> 00:05:42.930
you with some tools.

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Right.

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Very cool.

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Yeah.

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And so that's one part,
I also very, very,

00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:49.740
uh, sort of passionate
about anything that has

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to do with combatives
and, um, uh, you know,

00:05:53.460 --> 00:05:56.130
uh, combative tactics
for those that don't

00:05:56.130 --> 00:05:58.860
know, obviously a police
defensive tactics or,

00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:02.159
or, or martial arts,
so to speak, but in the

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context specifically of
whatever, um, business

00:06:07.320 --> 00:06:10.590
or police force or unit
we're I'm dealing with.

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So that's one of
the parts that I

00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.900
simply kept because
I just love doing it.

00:06:16.469 --> 00:06:17.640
Well, you've been
doing that since

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what, three years old.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's been a
long, long time.

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Yeah.

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Three years old.

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And you got into, and
you started martial

00:06:23.909 --> 00:06:25.890
arts or was it JiuJitsu
immediately at three?

00:06:25.890 --> 00:06:27.919
No, I started, I started
martial arts when I

00:06:27.919 --> 00:06:29.479
was three and I was
traditional martial

00:06:29.479 --> 00:06:32.539
arts, you know, and for
everybody's pleasure,

00:06:32.570 --> 00:06:33.409
it was Kung Fu.

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Right.

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Right, so.

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Hey, there you go.

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Yeah, no, absolutely.

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It was, it was a step
in and, and, um, you

00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:42.919
know, it taught me
a bunch of valuable

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lessons that I carried
over with me all along

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the, along the journey.

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And eventually sort
of went into more of

00:06:50.419 --> 00:06:53.810
the Muay Thai stand up
striking and eventually

00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:56.460
ended up in JiuJitsu,
which was about 2007.

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Okay.

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So in 2007 uh, Brazilian
JiuJitsu became

00:07:00.890 --> 00:07:02.719
my primary focus.

00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:03.289
Right.

00:07:04.039 --> 00:07:04.789
Um.

00:07:05.210 --> 00:07:05.810
Why was that?

00:07:05.840 --> 00:07:08.150
Was that because of Royce
Gracie and all the, uh.

00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.010
A hundred percent
it was, yeah.

00:07:10.039 --> 00:07:13.219
I mean, in 93, evidently
when UFC started, we

00:07:13.219 --> 00:07:16.340
actually got to see what
truly worked and what

00:07:16.340 --> 00:07:19.219
didn't, and it was no
longer a theoretical, uh,

00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:22.340
before that there was a
ton of theoretical ax to

00:07:22.340 --> 00:07:26.060
grind about every single,
you know, style and who,

00:07:26.090 --> 00:07:28.549
who was going to beat who
and everything was just

00:07:29.670 --> 00:07:31.020
essentially opinions.

00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:31.560
Right.

00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.450
That was when, uh,
Akido ring king.

00:07:33.450 --> 00:07:33.540
Sure.

00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.190
Because Steven Segal
was on the big screen.

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Right.

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And to be honest, he
was pretty awesome.

00:07:37.650 --> 00:07:37.860
Yeah.

00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:39.620
I can't deny.

00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:40.530
He's a weirdo, but.

00:07:41.070 --> 00:07:43.830
He is definitely an
interesting individual,

00:07:43.830 --> 00:07:45.450
but I can't deny, I
probably watched every

00:07:45.450 --> 00:07:47.580
one of his videos up
until a certain point.

00:07:47.820 --> 00:07:48.900
900 times.

00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:51.810
Rewind, pause.

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How did he do that move?

00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:56.400
Yeah, I was a big Seagal
fan myself as well.

00:07:56.430 --> 00:07:56.790
Yeah.

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Yeah.

00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:58.170
Favorite movie?

00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:01.110
I would say probably
above the law.

00:08:01.380 --> 00:08:01.680
Yeah?

00:08:01.950 --> 00:08:03.510
That was his first
one wasn't it?

00:08:03.950 --> 00:08:04.940
Yes, it was.

00:08:04.970 --> 00:08:05.210
Yeah.

00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.050
And then I really liked,
um, what's the one

00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:10.520
with the twins again?

00:08:10.550 --> 00:08:11.630
Jamaican twins.

00:08:12.030 --> 00:08:12.740
On deadly ground.

00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.400
On dead-, no, no, no.

00:08:15.010 --> 00:08:15.820
Oh no, hard to kill.

00:08:15.890 --> 00:08:16.400
Hard to kill.

00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:16.940
That's right.

00:08:16.940 --> 00:08:17.180
Yeah.

00:08:17.330 --> 00:08:18.080
So good.

00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:19.520
Everybody want go heaven.

00:08:19.550 --> 00:08:20.650
Nobody want dead.

00:08:20.890 --> 00:08:21.400
That one?

00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:22.310
So good.

00:08:23.150 --> 00:08:24.570
Anyways, we digressed
a little bit.

00:08:24.570 --> 00:08:25.480
I like you already.

00:08:27.450 --> 00:08:29.240
Um, yeah.

00:08:29.320 --> 00:08:30.130
Um, yeah.

00:08:30.620 --> 00:08:33.560
So with the martial
arts background, I had

00:08:33.740 --> 00:08:35.240
had a little bit of
martial arts as well.

00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:37.880
Did kilkushen karate as
a kid and I hated it.

00:08:38.210 --> 00:08:40.490
I've talked to
other people who got

00:08:40.490 --> 00:08:42.080
into that and they
absolutely loved it.

00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.730
Maybe it was my mindset.

00:08:43.780 --> 00:08:47.570
Maybe it was the group
I was with, but I wanted

00:08:47.570 --> 00:08:48.110
nothing to do with.

00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:53.819
Uh, later on, I got
into, uh, Arnis and, uh,

00:08:53.859 --> 00:08:57.120
JiuJitsu and I did some
Akido and because of

00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:00.530
the Steven Seagal stuff
and, uh, the Muay Thai,

00:09:01.140 --> 00:09:04.920
and I found a great deal
of value to the standup

00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:07.470
work and the physical
conditioning, the cardio

00:09:07.470 --> 00:09:09.930
work and all the rest
for the movie to I,

00:09:09.930 --> 00:09:11.819
and I, I really enjoyed
the Arnis actually.

00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:14.310
It was, um, uh, is
something I did for,

00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:15.390
for quite some time.

00:09:15.930 --> 00:09:18.689
But there were lessons
that people can learn

00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:22.155
in martial arts that
are very applicable

00:09:22.155 --> 00:09:25.605
to policing and
applicable to business.

00:09:25.635 --> 00:09:28.335
Is that where you're
drawing some of your, uh,

00:09:28.365 --> 00:09:30.675
your leadership training
or are you primarily

00:09:30.675 --> 00:09:34.035
leaning on what you
learned through, uh, your

00:09:34.095 --> 00:09:35.444
career with the RCMP?

00:09:35.975 --> 00:09:36.335
Yeah.

00:09:36.515 --> 00:09:38.255
Well, my leadership
journey started long

00:09:38.255 --> 00:09:40.175
before that there was,
there was a stint in

00:09:40.175 --> 00:09:42.755
the military and then
it rolled right into,

00:09:42.875 --> 00:09:45.245
you know, being at the
academy where I was in

00:09:45.245 --> 00:09:48.365
charge of my troop and it
rolled into leading use

00:09:48.365 --> 00:09:50.705
of force programs, you
know, for the west coast.

00:09:50.705 --> 00:09:52.625
And then it just, so
there was, there was a

00:09:52.625 --> 00:09:54.605
long kind of tracking
history there, but you

00:09:54.605 --> 00:09:56.435
are absolutely correct
when you were saying

00:09:56.435 --> 00:09:59.975
that, uh, martial
arts have the, the,

00:10:01.385 --> 00:10:03.995
the crossover so to
speak is, um, are

00:10:03.995 --> 00:10:05.435
undeniable, right.

00:10:05.585 --> 00:10:09.005
And, and, um, but
in, in terms of the

00:10:09.005 --> 00:10:10.925
environment or setting
up an environment like

00:10:10.954 --> 00:10:14.465
that is critical for, for
any gym or martial arts

00:10:14.465 --> 00:10:17.885
studio, and we see it
over and over again, how

00:10:18.215 --> 00:10:21.035
this is being failed and,
and, and the people that

00:10:21.035 --> 00:10:24.425
are going in to attempt
a martial arts or to,

00:10:24.605 --> 00:10:28.055
you know, to, to, to do
with everybody else is

00:10:28.055 --> 00:10:30.694
doing that's seems to be
so great and then they

00:10:30.694 --> 00:10:32.495
have a bad experience or
a negative experience.

00:10:32.495 --> 00:10:34.265
And next thing you know,
it turns them off forever

00:10:34.265 --> 00:10:35.015
martial arts, right?

00:10:35.015 --> 00:10:35.255
So.

00:10:35.525 --> 00:10:35.824
Right.

00:10:35.915 --> 00:10:38.314
As studio, as martial
arts studio owners,

00:10:38.314 --> 00:10:41.224
which I'm one of them,
um, we have a great

00:10:41.224 --> 00:10:45.395
responsibility in, in, in
representing the martial

00:10:45.395 --> 00:10:48.604
arts world and whatever
style that we are

00:10:48.635 --> 00:10:51.635
teaching, um, and beauty
ambassador, and know

00:10:51.635 --> 00:10:54.245
that if somebody comes to
you and they're treating

00:10:54.515 --> 00:10:57.064
you in a, in a, they're
received in a welcomed,

00:10:57.255 --> 00:11:00.214
in a family environment
with the respect and all

00:11:00.214 --> 00:11:02.765
these other things, along
with the professional,

00:11:02.944 --> 00:11:05.704
um, instructions,
eventually, if they move

00:11:05.704 --> 00:11:06.935
on, they go somewhere
else, they carry

00:11:06.935 --> 00:11:07.745
that along with them.

00:11:08.015 --> 00:11:10.865
Versus this is a wrap.

00:11:10.895 --> 00:11:12.785
Um, you know, I've tried
it then, like it done.

00:11:12.875 --> 00:11:13.265
Right.

00:11:13.265 --> 00:11:13.474
One and Done.

00:11:13.474 --> 00:11:15.204
You talk about respect.

00:11:15.295 --> 00:11:18.234
And some of these things
are just fundamental

00:11:18.234 --> 00:11:20.724
core values that a
person's mother should

00:11:20.724 --> 00:11:23.635
have taught them as a
youngster, but perhaps

00:11:23.635 --> 00:11:24.834
not everybody has that.

00:11:26.005 --> 00:11:28.405
The, that is one of the
places where martial

00:11:28.405 --> 00:11:31.765
arts can really help
leaders I've found

00:11:31.824 --> 00:11:34.435
is in instilling
a, a code of ethics

00:11:34.435 --> 00:11:37.645
and some fundamental
values that are shared

00:11:37.645 --> 00:11:38.545
amongst the community.

00:11:39.415 --> 00:11:41.275
Uh, the physical
conditioning is a big

00:11:41.305 --> 00:11:44.244
part of that for the,
the mental resiliency,

00:11:44.515 --> 00:11:48.084
as well as your
physical resiliency, um.

00:11:52.464 --> 00:11:53.214
Your studio.

00:11:54.315 --> 00:11:55.695
Tell me a little bit
about that, where, I

00:11:55.695 --> 00:11:58.875
didn't realize, I know
you had a gym for about

00:11:58.875 --> 00:12:00.005
eight years, wasn't it?

00:12:00.035 --> 00:12:00.615
You still have that?

00:12:00.615 --> 00:12:00.935
Two.

00:12:01.065 --> 00:12:01.455
Yeah.

00:12:01.605 --> 00:12:02.175
Two gyms?!

00:12:02.495 --> 00:12:02.735
Two.

00:12:02.735 --> 00:12:03.035
Yeah.

00:12:03.065 --> 00:12:05.355
I had two CrossFit gyms,
a Sheep Dog CrossFit

00:12:05.375 --> 00:12:07.625
and Dogs Den CrossFit,
both, both of which

00:12:07.625 --> 00:12:11.195
I'm no longer owner,
uh, owner of, of, but

00:12:11.255 --> 00:12:13.475
I still coach at Sheep
Dog on the Sundays,

00:12:13.505 --> 00:12:14.555
it's in Port Coquitlam.

00:12:14.855 --> 00:12:16.775
My, my martial arts
studio is called

00:12:16.775 --> 00:12:18.935
Ascension Martial
Arts and it's also

00:12:18.935 --> 00:12:19.805
in Port Coquitlam.

00:12:20.585 --> 00:12:24.165
And, um, I was going
somewhere with that,

00:12:24.275 --> 00:12:27.005
um, in line with what
you were saying there,

00:12:29.585 --> 00:12:30.425
what was it now?

00:12:32.615 --> 00:12:33.545
Mental resiliency.

00:12:33.665 --> 00:12:34.865
Yeah, the
resiliency piece.

00:12:35.075 --> 00:12:35.495
Thank you.

00:12:35.735 --> 00:12:37.055
Uh, yeah, the
resiliency piece.

00:12:37.085 --> 00:12:38.765
I mean, highly
underrated.

00:12:38.765 --> 00:12:41.885
Like we know that
adversity adds to the

00:12:41.885 --> 00:12:44.975
resiliency bank, like
adversity in a controlled

00:12:44.975 --> 00:12:49.385
fashion either creates
post-traumatic growth or

00:12:49.385 --> 00:12:52.475
it creates post-traumatic
stress injury or, or

00:12:52.475 --> 00:12:54.275
occupational stress
injuries in the case of

00:12:54.275 --> 00:12:55.235
a professional setting.

00:12:55.805 --> 00:12:58.415
And so what we
have is safety.

00:12:58.505 --> 00:13:01.785
So no real risk for harm
aside from you know, the

00:13:01.805 --> 00:13:04.205
odd, very rare injury
that, that, that can

00:13:04.205 --> 00:13:07.115
happen anywhere in soccer
or baseball or whatever.

00:13:07.745 --> 00:13:09.305
But what you have
is adversity.

00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:12.720
You spar, you know,
especially in Brazilian

00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.880
JiuJitsu, you, you,
you get the sparring in

00:13:14.880 --> 00:13:17.070
and, and when you start
as a white belt, you

00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:19.320
know, you're pretty much
everybody's punching

00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:20.340
bag and it is safe.

00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:23.250
It is safe, but you
are not winning.

00:13:23.310 --> 00:13:23.610
Right.

00:13:23.640 --> 00:13:25.470
And so it's difficult,
especially if you're

00:13:25.470 --> 00:13:28.800
somebody that's generally
very successful and

00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:31.320
you're generally very
successful quickly at

00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:31.950
things that you do.

00:13:32.010 --> 00:13:33.510
Or you've been in the
same field for many,

00:13:33.510 --> 00:13:35.390
many years, you're a
subject matter expert.

00:13:35.400 --> 00:13:37.620
And now you get
to test something

00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:38.940
that's completely
out of comfort.

00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:40.770
And next thing you know,
you're not winning, not

00:13:40.770 --> 00:13:42.420
winning, not winning
as you're progressing.

00:13:42.420 --> 00:13:44.370
And then you start
getting little wins

00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:46.680
here and there and you,
you know, it's, it's

00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:51.720
really, um, humbling
and that's a critical,

00:13:51.750 --> 00:13:52.860
that's a critical piece.

00:13:52.920 --> 00:13:56.160
Um, it's really humbling,
but it also shows you

00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:57.690
that when you're having
a really bad day on the

00:13:57.690 --> 00:13:59.610
mats, maybe two hours
later, you're back

00:13:59.730 --> 00:14:01.950
and it's a greatest
day and it's weird.

00:14:01.950 --> 00:14:02.940
Cause they're
the same day.

00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:04.010
Yes.

00:14:04.070 --> 00:14:04.430
Right.

00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:06.900
W what did it was,
think it was E.H.

00:14:06.900 --> 00:14:07.470
Chapin.

00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:09.320
He said out of suffering
have emerged as

00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.660
strongest souls than
those massive characters

00:14:11.660 --> 00:14:12.830
are seared of scars.

00:14:13.490 --> 00:14:17.175
And perhaps, perhaps
that can be a very

00:14:17.175 --> 00:14:18.344
accurate statement.

00:14:18.405 --> 00:14:21.074
And sometimes some
people just don't get up

00:14:21.074 --> 00:14:23.204
from, from the scars and
they have a difficult

00:14:23.204 --> 00:14:24.645
time rebounding.

00:14:24.675 --> 00:14:26.985
Having those small
wins, having that

00:14:26.985 --> 00:14:28.755
little light at the end
of the tunnel, that's

00:14:28.755 --> 00:14:31.064
probably why people
golf actually, right?

00:14:31.334 --> 00:14:32.295
Same sort of thing.

00:14:32.295 --> 00:14:33.735
You get that
one good shot.

00:14:33.765 --> 00:14:37.275
And then you suffer for
the next, for the rest

00:14:37.275 --> 00:14:39.615
of the course, whacking
the ball everywhere.

00:14:39.735 --> 00:14:42.135
But you need those
little success of wins

00:14:42.135 --> 00:14:44.655
in order to build that,
that mental resiliency.

00:14:44.995 --> 00:14:48.930
And now you built, if
I'm not mistaken, um,

00:14:49.170 --> 00:14:51.540
the sort of standing on
the shoulders of giants

00:14:51.540 --> 00:14:54.030
and using cumulative
work that's out there,

00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.120
but you built a mental
resiliency program

00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:57.870
yourself, didn't you?

00:14:58.100 --> 00:14:58.760
That is correct.

00:14:58.760 --> 00:14:58.910
Yeah.

00:14:58.910 --> 00:15:00.410
It's called a
Leadership Through

00:15:00.410 --> 00:15:01.880
Critical Circumstances.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.140
And, um, you know, it,
it, um, evolved greatly

00:15:06.140 --> 00:15:08.120
over the years, but
essentially what it was

00:15:08.180 --> 00:15:13.280
to begin with was, um,
a program to re uh, to

00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:15.950
support our memberships
and to support our police

00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:17.960
officers going through
critical incidents,

00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:21.650
whether it was shootings
or, you know, use of

00:15:21.650 --> 00:15:23.990
force, major use of
force, or even some of

00:15:23.990 --> 00:15:27.140
the things that are a
by-product of life as

00:15:27.150 --> 00:15:27.980
it could be, you know?

00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:31.939
Cause the way I like to
sort of the analogy I

00:15:31.939 --> 00:15:34.040
make is imagine having
a bucket and every

00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:37.069
single drop that you
put in there, whether

00:15:37.069 --> 00:15:39.140
it's administrative
stress or marital

00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:42.050
problems or problems
with, with the kids

00:15:42.050 --> 00:15:43.160
or financial problems.

00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:44.900
And then you get to the
office and there's a

00:15:44.900 --> 00:15:47.420
caustic work environment
or a caustic culture.

00:15:47.420 --> 00:15:48.470
You have this,
you have that.

00:15:48.470 --> 00:15:49.730
And it keeps on
going until it,

00:15:49.910 --> 00:15:51.585
until it's full.

00:15:51.585 --> 00:15:54.705
And now you have any sort
of incident, especially

00:15:54.705 --> 00:15:57.165
in a critical incident
realm and boom you're

00:15:57.165 --> 00:15:58.175
overflowing right?

00:15:58.495 --> 00:15:58.825
Right.

00:15:58.825 --> 00:16:02.415
So our job was to
essentially poke holes

00:16:02.595 --> 00:16:05.835
through that buckets
in any means necessary,

00:16:06.255 --> 00:16:08.295
poke the holes so that
the water would flow

00:16:08.295 --> 00:16:11.745
out and the water level
would stay low so that

00:16:11.745 --> 00:16:15.195
we could send our people
out to do the tough work

00:16:15.225 --> 00:16:17.685
did they have to do,
and then bringing them

00:16:17.685 --> 00:16:18.855
back, because guess what?

00:16:19.335 --> 00:16:21.625
Next week, in two weeks,
in three weeks there's

00:16:21.645 --> 00:16:23.505
this other call and this
other call, and we're

00:16:23.505 --> 00:16:25.125
talking about a team
that's full time that

00:16:25.125 --> 00:16:27.555
has hundreds and hundreds
of operation a year.

00:16:28.035 --> 00:16:29.475
So our guys are
not going anywhere.

00:16:30.465 --> 00:16:30.765
Right.

00:16:30.855 --> 00:16:32.745
So it's it, so
that's essentially

00:16:32.745 --> 00:16:33.555
how this starts.

00:16:34.445 --> 00:16:38.105
So I've heard, and can
correct me if, uh, if

00:16:38.105 --> 00:16:39.905
you've heard otherwise,
but I've heard that

00:16:39.995 --> 00:16:42.995
let's say the stress
of getting married, the

00:16:43.005 --> 00:16:45.545
stress of, what would
otherwise be viewed

00:16:45.545 --> 00:16:46.745
as a positive stress.

00:16:47.185 --> 00:16:49.955
Will have a very
similar physiological

00:16:49.955 --> 00:16:51.275
response on the body.

00:16:51.605 --> 00:16:54.125
So whether somebody is
looking at an individual

00:16:54.125 --> 00:16:57.395
who's constantly dealing
with negative stresses or

00:16:57.425 --> 00:16:59.345
negative stresses, which
everybody's going to have

00:16:59.345 --> 00:17:02.075
to one degree or another,
uh, combined with the

00:17:02.075 --> 00:17:04.505
positive stresses, all
of that needs to be,

00:17:04.805 --> 00:17:06.605
to be emptied from the
bucket, so to speak.

00:17:07.595 --> 00:17:09.215
Stress, the body
really doesn't make

00:17:09.215 --> 00:17:09.965
a big difference.

00:17:09.995 --> 00:17:12.395
And I can even add to
that and say somebody

00:17:12.395 --> 00:17:14.285
that trains really,
really hard on the

00:17:14.285 --> 00:17:17.085
physical realm adds
to the stress as well.

00:17:17.565 --> 00:17:18.155
Interesting.

00:17:18.155 --> 00:17:19.474
And it is interesting
because it's

00:17:19.474 --> 00:17:20.315
also an outlet.

00:17:20.665 --> 00:17:20.905
Right.

00:17:20.905 --> 00:17:21.125
Right?

00:17:21.149 --> 00:17:24.510
So which one of the
greater goods, which one

00:17:24.510 --> 00:17:26.699
is it for you and how
are you perceiving it?

00:17:26.699 --> 00:17:28.439
So for example, if
we're going back, just

00:17:28.439 --> 00:17:30.360
to kind of unpack that
a little bit, if we're

00:17:30.360 --> 00:17:32.459
talking about say, and
I'm not a psychologist,

00:17:32.459 --> 00:17:34.830
so bear with me here,
but you know, as part

00:17:34.830 --> 00:17:37.409
of my research, I've,
I've, I've, um, linked

00:17:37.409 --> 00:17:39.689
up with, uh, the Chicago
police department,

00:17:39.719 --> 00:17:41.550
psychological unit, and
some of the work they had

00:17:41.550 --> 00:17:44.070
done and, uh, and much,
much smarter people than

00:17:44.070 --> 00:17:46.620
me along the way as part
of the research project.

00:17:46.620 --> 00:17:49.290
So, um, but yeah,
when we're looking

00:17:49.290 --> 00:17:51.899
at, uh, stress, even
positive stress, or

00:17:51.929 --> 00:17:53.280
if it's even a thing.

00:17:53.429 --> 00:17:55.620
It's stress and the
reason why you're

00:17:55.620 --> 00:17:57.540
considering it positive
is because there was

00:17:57.540 --> 00:17:58.500
a marriage in the end.

00:17:58.709 --> 00:17:58.949
Right.

00:17:58.979 --> 00:18:01.590
You know, and, and, and
that's the, the outcome.

00:18:01.800 --> 00:18:03.659
So now we're, we're
outcome focused.

00:18:03.659 --> 00:18:05.909
So there's a little bit
of outcome bias, but

00:18:05.909 --> 00:18:08.280
the stress that leads
into the marriage,

00:18:08.310 --> 00:18:09.300
isn't positive.

00:18:09.719 --> 00:18:10.020
Right?

00:18:10.050 --> 00:18:12.389
It's a positive event,
but there's distress

00:18:12.389 --> 00:18:13.800
is still distress
is still, it takes

00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:14.840
a toll on you right?

00:18:15.010 --> 00:18:15.560
Interesting.

00:18:15.560 --> 00:18:16.739
So it's a bit of
a, it's a bit of

00:18:16.739 --> 00:18:17.610
semantics, I guess.

00:18:17.610 --> 00:18:20.340
But ultimately the only
reason why there's stress

00:18:20.340 --> 00:18:23.310
is it'd be the same as
saying, you know, we're

00:18:23.310 --> 00:18:25.320
going to get, you're
going to get into a fight

00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:29.370
and, um, it will go, all
you need to know is that

00:18:29.370 --> 00:18:31.800
it will go your way and
when you finish, you win.

00:18:32.780 --> 00:18:35.449
So, so, so the stress
of the encounter, is

00:18:35.449 --> 00:18:38.030
that positive because
you're winning, you know?

00:18:38.300 --> 00:18:38.870
Right.

00:18:38.929 --> 00:18:40.370
So it's a, it's a
little bit, uh, it's

00:18:40.370 --> 00:18:42.290
a little bit of, um,
it's, uh, it's, it's

00:18:42.290 --> 00:18:45.020
a bit of a twisted
thought process, right?

00:18:45.020 --> 00:18:45.260
Like.

00:18:45.320 --> 00:18:46.100
It kinda is.

00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:48.350
And the stress of a
fight, I've always.

00:18:49.320 --> 00:18:52.200
Is typically the
anticipation or I

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:54.899
should say probably
always the anticipation

00:18:54.899 --> 00:18:55.320
of the fight.

00:18:55.320 --> 00:18:57.030
The fight itself
is another, a

00:18:57.030 --> 00:18:57.899
stressful thing.

00:18:57.899 --> 00:19:00.389
It's, you're in
it, you're in it.

00:19:00.389 --> 00:19:02.669
And you act and you react
and you work in a way

00:19:02.669 --> 00:19:04.290
that you've either been
trained or it's something

00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:05.280
that comes instinctually.

00:19:05.669 --> 00:19:09.060
But the anticipation
of that event is a

00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:11.460
very stressful thing
for a lot of people.

00:19:12.570 --> 00:19:16.050
And then the aftermath of
that and how you mentally

00:19:16.050 --> 00:19:18.870
frame that event, was
that a positive event?

00:19:19.169 --> 00:19:20.760
Is it socially
acceptable?

00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:23.100
Is it accepted by
my supervisors?

00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:24.810
By my, my crew around me?

00:19:25.409 --> 00:19:27.750
Or am I now looked
at as a black sheep?

00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:31.050
And I've seen from the
limited research that

00:19:31.050 --> 00:19:33.419
I've done, when we talk
about critical incident

00:19:33.419 --> 00:19:36.840
stress, and you talk
about, um, PTSD and these

00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:40.080
different things, it's
that mental mind frame

00:19:40.110 --> 00:19:43.110
that I've seen people be
able to walk away from

00:19:43.260 --> 00:19:47.340
exact same incidents with
very different outcomes.

00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:48.389
Yeah.

00:19:48.770 --> 00:19:49.000
Yeah.

00:19:49.040 --> 00:19:51.649
And I would say, I would
say, um, you know, in

00:19:51.649 --> 00:19:55.010
support of that and what
compounds their ability

00:19:55.010 --> 00:19:57.980
to do that is also what
was their resilience

00:19:57.980 --> 00:20:00.230
bank at the time of the
incident and what kind of

00:20:00.230 --> 00:20:02.570
adversity have they gone
through, through life

00:20:02.570 --> 00:20:03.320
before getting there.

00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:06.980
So, cause that also will
dictate how one person

00:20:06.980 --> 00:20:09.020
will react and how the
other person will react.

00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:11.990
So those are compounding
compounding things.

00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:12.470
Right.

00:20:12.470 --> 00:20:15.230
You have mindset, my
mindset, mind frame,

00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.379
understanding their
purpose and you know,

00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:19.740
all the other factors
that play into how

00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:21.030
they're going to react
to the event and how

00:20:21.030 --> 00:20:24.240
positive it is, but also
what was the ability to

00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:26.100
sustain this level of
stress to begin with.

00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:26.760
Right?

00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:28.620
So, so the two kind
of mesh together.

00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:29.920
So it's a very
interesting, uh.

00:20:30.560 --> 00:20:31.940
Yeah, that, that
is interesting.

00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:33.560
Cause when you
bring up, what is

00:20:33.560 --> 00:20:35.420
the individual been
through ahead of time?

00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:37.760
Now, some people can
go through something,

00:20:37.790 --> 00:20:40.160
they can get beaten
down, they can get that

00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.150
little bit of a win.

00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:43.190
They can reframe that
situation in their

00:20:43.190 --> 00:20:45.440
mind and then they
can start building

00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:46.400
the resiliencies.

00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.740
Other people will get
beaten down, beaten

00:20:48.740 --> 00:20:50.930
down, beaten down,
and they never can get

00:20:50.930 --> 00:20:52.520
that mindset right.

00:20:53.090 --> 00:20:54.890
And consequently, two
people can have the

00:20:54.890 --> 00:20:57.230
same adversity coming
up to a certain point.

00:20:58.290 --> 00:21:00.840
And have two different
mental resiliencies.

00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:03.090
How would, how would
you coach your team?

00:21:03.090 --> 00:21:04.950
How would you suggest
to others to really

00:21:05.340 --> 00:21:07.890
enhance their, their
mental resiliency?

00:21:08.780 --> 00:21:11.180
Well, I'll just
speak to my, I'll

00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:11.930
speak to my guys.

00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:13.700
For example, like we
use a lot of positive

00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:14.660
reframing, right?

00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:16.790
Because one of the
issues that, that we

00:21:16.790 --> 00:21:18.890
know is that humans
are negatively biased.

00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:19.190
Right.

00:21:19.250 --> 00:21:20.780
And we are, and the
reason why we are is

00:21:20.780 --> 00:21:22.430
because evidently we
are coming out of a

00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:24.110
cave and we're not
looking left and right.

00:21:24.110 --> 00:21:26.420
And we're getting
eaten right as,  as

00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:28.630
you know, in the old
days, so to speak.

00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:31.720
Um, and, um, and,
and it's easy.

00:21:31.840 --> 00:21:34.230
And if you look, um, just
to make a little segue,

00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:37.020
if you look at a, say in
an MMA world champ, for

00:21:37.020 --> 00:21:39.180
example, like an absolute
superstar, or even a

00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:41.460
boxer or anybody that
really excels in their

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:45.060
field, their ability
to shut down the voices

00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:47.220
is slim to none, right?

00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:49.770
So, so it's really hard
to emulate because what

00:21:49.860 --> 00:21:51.820
they get the same, they
get the same, you know,

00:21:51.820 --> 00:21:53.640
where you're, you're
an imposter, you know,

00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:56.280
you eventually you'll
be, you'll be exposed

00:21:56.280 --> 00:21:58.140
and people are going to
know who, you know, that

00:21:58.140 --> 00:21:59.610
you're not as good as
they think you are and

00:21:59.610 --> 00:22:00.270
all these other things.

00:22:00.810 --> 00:22:02.190
But they really,
really will quiet

00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:04.500
those voices down when
other people just don't

00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:05.460
have that ability.

00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:07.440
And the voices will
become louder and

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.900
louder and louder and
louder until it actually

00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:11.730
mute their own right.

00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:13.860
So one of the things
that I like to do,

00:22:13.860 --> 00:22:15.660
that's actually
quite, quite easy.

00:22:16.110 --> 00:22:18.630
And I've spoken to this
with a bunch of different

00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:22.170
podcasts, but it's
basically, um, have them

00:22:22.170 --> 00:22:24.330
listening to positive
messaging, but that

00:22:24.540 --> 00:22:26.730
those positive messages,
they have to have an

00:22:26.730 --> 00:22:28.070
impact emotionally.

00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:30.210
They can't just be
like, okay, you are

00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:33.420
going to, um, process
information with your

00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:34.680
cerebral, with your head.

00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.980
It's more about, can
you feel this message?

00:22:38.070 --> 00:22:38.340
Right?

00:22:38.370 --> 00:22:40.470
So when the context of
my guys, for example,

00:22:40.770 --> 00:22:43.590
I used video videos
that were say set in a

00:22:43.590 --> 00:22:45.180
tactical context, right?

00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:47.970
Or in a military style
context or in a police,

00:22:48.090 --> 00:22:50.460
you know, special
operation type context,

00:22:51.600 --> 00:22:54.990
but a key messaging was
done by motivational

00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:56.205
speaker, right.

00:22:56.595 --> 00:22:58.695
So they would,
essentially at the

00:22:58.695 --> 00:23:00.825
beginning of each
block, I would play,

00:23:00.915 --> 00:23:03.045
you know, a four or
five, six minute video.

00:23:03.555 --> 00:23:06.345
And my goal was not to
change their life by

00:23:06.345 --> 00:23:07.575
playing this one video.

00:23:07.575 --> 00:23:10.305
My goal was for them to
understand how we can

00:23:10.305 --> 00:23:12.885
positively impact their
day and their shifts so

00:23:12.885 --> 00:23:15.375
that they get to do it
on their own at home.

00:23:15.615 --> 00:23:17.895
So for me, when I'm
cleaning the house,

00:23:17.895 --> 00:23:19.935
when I'm doing things
chores around the

00:23:19.935 --> 00:23:21.495
house or whatever,
I'm not listening to

00:23:21.495 --> 00:23:24.165
music, I'm listening
to motivational video

00:23:24.175 --> 00:23:26.445
set in a context that's
conducive to me having

00:23:26.445 --> 00:23:27.465
an emotional reaction.

00:23:27.795 --> 00:23:30.165
And I just blast
them right.

00:23:30.255 --> 00:23:30.975
Very interesting.

00:23:30.975 --> 00:23:33.075
And so what you do in
what you find quickly

00:23:33.405 --> 00:23:36.135
is that I'm sleeping
in bed at night and I

00:23:36.135 --> 00:23:38.805
will wake up reciting
certain things.

00:23:38.805 --> 00:23:40.305
You know, luck is the
last thing, we should

00:23:40.305 --> 00:23:42.405
also believe that winning
can happen by accident

00:23:43.785 --> 00:23:44.805
and all these things.

00:23:44.865 --> 00:23:47.805
And, and your brain
continues to process

00:23:47.805 --> 00:23:48.705
the information.

00:23:49.275 --> 00:23:51.345
And what I also tell them
to do is to do it in the

00:23:51.345 --> 00:23:53.235
morning, because in the
morning when you wake up,

00:23:53.655 --> 00:23:55.485
what happens, you listen
to a song, you have it

00:23:55.485 --> 00:23:56.325
in your head all day.

00:23:56.775 --> 00:23:58.965
Well, now's the time
to, front-load your,

00:23:58.965 --> 00:24:00.585
you know, your, your
frontal cortex and your

00:24:00.585 --> 00:24:03.585
emotional side and your
subconscious mind, uh,

00:24:03.675 --> 00:24:05.415
with positive messaging.

00:24:05.595 --> 00:24:08.625
And, and, and it's crazy
how effectively it works.

00:24:08.625 --> 00:24:10.785
Now, the problem
is because humans

00:24:10.785 --> 00:24:12.675
are inherently
negatively bias.

00:24:12.705 --> 00:24:14.235
We tend to go back there.

00:24:14.385 --> 00:24:17.985
So, so what happens is
oftentimes people will

00:24:17.985 --> 00:24:19.785
do it for a while and
to be like, oh, I felt

00:24:19.785 --> 00:24:21.435
really great, I felt
like I was, you know,

00:24:22.005 --> 00:24:24.980
able to do things that
normally would have been

00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:27.080
more apprehensive about,
or I was able to publish

00:24:27.530 --> 00:24:29.570
public speak, or I was
able to present or do

00:24:29.570 --> 00:24:32.480
this, or lead a call or
whatever the case may be.

00:24:32.540 --> 00:24:32.810
Right.

00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:34.610
And then they're like,
oh, well that worked,

00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:36.230
you know, it's over.

00:24:36.530 --> 00:24:37.190
No, it's not.

00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:39.649
Because over time, what
happened is the voices

00:24:39.649 --> 00:24:41.659
will become louder
and louder and louder.

00:24:41.990 --> 00:24:45.020
So what I do is every
time I have downtime,

00:24:45.649 --> 00:24:48.440
I just front load,
you know, jam pack

00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:50.750
my brain and my, my
subconscious mind with

00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:51.860
these key messaging.

00:24:52.550 --> 00:24:54.770
And it never goes
back there if it

00:24:54.770 --> 00:24:55.550
makes any sense.

00:24:55.840 --> 00:24:56.860
Oh, it totally
makes sense.

00:24:56.860 --> 00:24:59.050
Yeah, no, you brought
up a ton of things in

00:24:59.050 --> 00:25:00.040
that little short span.

00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.240
I wrote a couple
of things down.

00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:03.580
So my ADHD mind
doesn't run off in

00:25:03.580 --> 00:25:04.510
different directions.

00:25:05.050 --> 00:25:06.970
Um, you know, one of
the things, when you're

00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:09.100
talking about that, the,
the motivational, the

00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:12.429
positive imagery, the
positive messaging, one

00:25:12.429 --> 00:25:14.200
of the biggest things
I've heard people say

00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.110
is, oh, it's a, it's
a short term thing.

00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:20.919
It wears off and you
know what so's washing.

00:25:21.100 --> 00:25:22.030
So showering.

00:25:22.090 --> 00:25:23.260
Why not do
that every day?

00:25:23.260 --> 00:25:23.590
Right?

00:25:23.590 --> 00:25:25.870
I mean, it's a
routine that you

00:25:25.870 --> 00:25:26.980
have to get into.

00:25:27.010 --> 00:25:30.100
And if you're not always
doing it, like what you

00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:32.320
say and keeping on top
of it, then you will

00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:33.820
have diminishing returns.

00:25:33.879 --> 00:25:35.350
And that's the
disabler, right.

00:25:35.409 --> 00:25:37.690
And a disabler in all
of us, I'm going to

00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:40.155
disable my own wellness.

00:25:40.185 --> 00:25:43.004
I'm going to disable my
own ability to be better.

00:25:43.544 --> 00:25:44.385
I'm going to disabled.

00:25:44.445 --> 00:25:46.274
Uh, no, it's,
you know, empower

00:25:46.274 --> 00:25:47.235
ourselves to do it.

00:25:47.324 --> 00:25:49.995
So yeah, understand that
if you stop doing it,

00:25:50.115 --> 00:25:51.074
it will stop working.

00:25:51.074 --> 00:25:52.304
But what else do
you have to do?

00:25:52.935 --> 00:25:55.095
You don't have to listen
to Metallica, well you

00:25:55.095 --> 00:25:57.975
do, but you know, at
some point you can, you

00:25:57.975 --> 00:26:02.054
can switch it up and
have an have, um, you

00:26:02.054 --> 00:26:04.784
know, a motivational
video go out and really

00:26:04.784 --> 00:26:06.645
reinforces that key
positive messaging.

00:26:06.794 --> 00:26:10.395
What's interesting with
that too, is just like

00:26:10.395 --> 00:26:12.375
martial arts and just
how difficult it is to

00:26:12.375 --> 00:26:16.544
get certain people to
train despite the data

00:26:16.544 --> 00:26:19.215
that shows that it's
absolutely necessary

00:26:19.215 --> 00:26:21.465
for their own either
professional endeavor or

00:26:21.465 --> 00:26:22.455
whatever the case may be.

00:26:23.564 --> 00:26:26.355
It is equally as hard to
get somebody to listen

00:26:26.355 --> 00:26:28.665
to a four minute video
after I've had this

00:26:28.665 --> 00:26:31.754
conversation with so
many people, because

00:26:31.965 --> 00:26:34.365
they just don't want
to even see if it could

00:26:34.365 --> 00:26:35.324
possibly be right.

00:26:35.355 --> 00:26:37.245
That's how deep
the disabler runs.

00:26:37.574 --> 00:26:37.814
Right.

00:26:37.845 --> 00:26:38.715
Why do you think that is?

00:26:38.804 --> 00:26:40.935
It is, it is
completely asinine.

00:26:41.024 --> 00:26:41.294
Yeah.

00:26:41.324 --> 00:26:46.064
We, we, as humans have,
I believe more propensity

00:26:46.064 --> 00:26:49.064
to self-sabotage than any
other species, because

00:26:49.064 --> 00:26:50.715
we have the ability
to process so much

00:26:50.715 --> 00:26:51.915
cognitive information.

00:26:52.335 --> 00:26:55.345
Like how do we actually,
self-sabotage to the

00:26:55.365 --> 00:26:57.705
point of, if I said
to you, give me three

00:26:57.705 --> 00:26:59.955
minutes of your time and
I will prove to you that

00:26:59.955 --> 00:27:01.065
what I'm saying is real.

00:27:01.665 --> 00:27:03.945
What if I said to a
police officer come to

00:27:03.945 --> 00:27:06.555
the mats and I will teach
you that your level of

00:27:06.555 --> 00:27:08.975
competence is currently
sits at the unknown

00:27:08.975 --> 00:27:10.485
incompetence, which
means that you don't

00:27:10.485 --> 00:27:11.415
know what you don't know.

00:27:11.565 --> 00:27:13.215
And in three and a
half minutes, I'm going

00:27:13.215 --> 00:27:15.855
to show you that your
life is in danger if

00:27:15.855 --> 00:27:18.275
you don't do something
about your, the ability

00:27:18.275 --> 00:27:20.675
that you have to use of
force in a controlled

00:27:20.695 --> 00:27:22.044
fashion, right?

00:27:22.475 --> 00:27:23.405
Oh I'd jump on that.

00:27:23.835 --> 00:27:25.155
Yeah, but that's
not the case.

00:27:25.185 --> 00:27:25.995
But most people don't.

00:27:25.995 --> 00:27:26.804
That's not the case.

00:27:26.885 --> 00:27:27.245
Right.

00:27:27.365 --> 00:27:28.804
Well, most people don't
want to have their

00:27:28.804 --> 00:27:29.794
inadequacies pointed out.

00:27:29.855 --> 00:27:30.514
A hundred percent.

00:27:30.544 --> 00:27:32.645
And so the, the, the,
one of the, the course

00:27:32.645 --> 00:27:34.534
that I have, the,
the, the introspective

00:27:34.534 --> 00:27:37.594
leader courses exactly
about that, this is a

00:27:37.594 --> 00:27:39.514
transformational day
for your leadership.

00:27:39.905 --> 00:27:44.014
We are going to look
long and hard inside.

00:27:44.135 --> 00:27:45.875
There is nobody
else responsible.

00:27:46.115 --> 00:27:48.665
There's nobody else to
look out for, for rescue.

00:27:48.905 --> 00:27:51.875
It's all about
going down and deep.

00:27:52.145 --> 00:27:52.834
Very cool.

00:27:53.314 --> 00:27:53.885
Very cool.

00:27:53.915 --> 00:27:54.215
Yeah.

00:27:54.844 --> 00:27:57.304
So you mentioned
something and I did a

00:27:57.304 --> 00:27:59.195
bit of research going
into this as well

00:27:59.584 --> 00:28:02.375
uh, but you mentioned
the word imposter.

00:28:02.764 --> 00:28:06.455
And in my research,
I was listening to

00:28:06.514 --> 00:28:09.365
our local police
chief here in Delta.

00:28:09.905 --> 00:28:11.105
You had a chat with him.

00:28:11.254 --> 00:28:12.905
And one of the things
that you brought

00:28:12.905 --> 00:28:15.425
up was you actually
were promoted to a

00:28:15.425 --> 00:28:17.584
leadership position
and then promoted from

00:28:17.584 --> 00:28:19.594
there to an even higher
leadership position.

00:28:20.165 --> 00:28:23.375
I think you had, what's
it like not direct

00:28:23.375 --> 00:28:26.195
control, but about 500
people that were under.

00:28:26.764 --> 00:28:27.605
Is that a correct number?

00:28:27.844 --> 00:28:28.115
No.

00:28:28.115 --> 00:28:31.685
So I, I essentially went
from having 24 people

00:28:31.685 --> 00:28:35.284
reporting to me to
overseeing, being broadly

00:28:35.284 --> 00:28:38.344
responsible for 8,200
employees in a division.

00:28:38.465 --> 00:28:38.794
Right.

00:28:39.544 --> 00:28:41.495
Now, you're
absolutely right.

00:28:41.495 --> 00:28:42.485
There's a span
of control.

00:28:42.485 --> 00:28:43.895
We know what the span
of control is right,

00:28:44.254 --> 00:28:45.155
about five people.

00:28:45.155 --> 00:28:46.504
So you have to
have your leaders

00:28:46.504 --> 00:28:48.004
underneath, and that's
how these centralized

00:28:48.004 --> 00:28:48.754
command works.

00:28:48.875 --> 00:28:52.380
But in, in terms
of that the image.

00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.160
And in terms of the,
my ability to reach and

00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:58.680
connect, I had to be
able to do that with

00:28:59.040 --> 00:29:00.570
basically 8,200 people.

00:29:00.650 --> 00:29:04.410
That was my job to be,
um, an inspirational

00:29:04.410 --> 00:29:05.430
leader, so to speak.

00:29:05.790 --> 00:29:08.130
Um, and I mean, if
this wasn't a task that

00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:09.010
was handed out to me.

00:29:09.050 --> 00:29:09.790
No you took it
upon yourself.

00:29:09.879 --> 00:29:11.580
This was,  this
was an opportunity

00:29:12.120 --> 00:29:12.900
to do it right.

00:29:13.080 --> 00:29:14.160
I, you know, I could
have, I could have

00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.360
cruised through
the position for

00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:16.070
two years, but.

00:29:16.280 --> 00:29:18.590
But I think you mentioned
in that interview

00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:20.840
that you felt like an
imposter when you were

00:29:20.840 --> 00:29:21.920
first put into that.

00:29:22.070 --> 00:29:23.150
Can you speak about that?

00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:24.590
Because I don't think
it's an uncommon

00:29:24.590 --> 00:29:25.790
thing for most
people when they're

00:29:25.790 --> 00:29:26.840
trying something new.

00:29:26.930 --> 00:29:27.470
A hundred percent.

00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:29.565
To say, like who am I?

00:29:29.625 --> 00:29:31.965
Who am I to be able
to do this opposed to

00:29:32.085 --> 00:29:34.604
somebody else who might
have greater accolades?

00:29:34.805 --> 00:29:35.165
Sure.

00:29:35.165 --> 00:29:38.645
Well, you know, to
begin with understanding

00:29:38.855 --> 00:29:42.185
that, um, uh, tactical
team leaders, such

00:29:42.185 --> 00:29:44.675
as me is held to the
fire every single day.

00:29:44.675 --> 00:29:46.415
So we bring our
accountability with

00:29:46.415 --> 00:29:47.555
us everywhere we go.

00:29:47.735 --> 00:29:50.195
We don't need other
people to, to, you know,

00:29:50.195 --> 00:29:52.085
to make us accountable
for our actions.

00:29:52.295 --> 00:29:55.175
So for me, being
in the unconscious

00:29:55.175 --> 00:29:58.115
incompetence is, is a
very, very rare thing.

00:29:58.175 --> 00:30:00.665
I generally always
know that I don't know

00:30:00.665 --> 00:30:01.775
anything about something.

00:30:01.835 --> 00:30:03.365
I just don't know
specifically what

00:30:03.365 --> 00:30:04.115
those things are.

00:30:04.264 --> 00:30:04.504
Right.

00:30:04.535 --> 00:30:06.335
But I will know
who to speak to.

00:30:06.335 --> 00:30:09.395
So as I like to tell
my guys, know what you

00:30:09.395 --> 00:30:11.675
don't know and know who
knows what you don't

00:30:11.675 --> 00:30:13.805
know, or at the very
least, you know who you

00:30:13.805 --> 00:30:15.545
could speak to the find
out what you don't know.

00:30:16.115 --> 00:30:19.504
So for me, when I moved
on to an administrative

00:30:19.504 --> 00:30:22.415
position, so to speak,
um, from being a

00:30:22.415 --> 00:30:24.665
tactical team leader,
which was also an

00:30:24.665 --> 00:30:26.975
administrative position,
that's called a spade

00:30:26.975 --> 00:30:28.775
a spade for the last
two years of my career.

00:30:28.775 --> 00:30:31.205
I was in the command
post and doing mostly,

00:30:31.264 --> 00:30:33.754
um, enabling of my
guys doing the work on

00:30:33.754 --> 00:30:35.795
the ground, which they
did fantastic work.

00:30:35.795 --> 00:30:38.585
But, um, but when I
moved to a, a truly

00:30:38.585 --> 00:30:41.615
administrative position
at 30,000 foot, you

00:30:41.615 --> 00:30:44.480
know, I was now dealing
with the assistant

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.190
commissioner, the deputy
commissioner and the

00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:47.780
commanding officer of
the division, which

00:30:47.780 --> 00:30:49.940
was very different
from, and all of us.

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.220
So dealing with Ottawa
and the commissioner

00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:55.310
of the RCMP and having
face-to-face meetings and

00:30:55.310 --> 00:30:57.350
doing presentations and
these types of things,

00:30:58.130 --> 00:31:01.900
it was such a broad and
it was such, you know,

00:31:01.930 --> 00:31:05.320
it, it, it was so vast
different from what I

00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:08.920
was used to uncomfortable
with that the first time

00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.230
they put the ranks on my
shoulders, I was like,

00:31:11.590 --> 00:31:13.720
you don't know anything,
you don't own the job.

00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:14.830
You don't own
this job yet.

00:31:14.830 --> 00:31:15.970
You're not ready
for this rank, but

00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:16.810
now you have it.

00:31:17.110 --> 00:31:17.380
Right.

00:31:17.650 --> 00:31:20.140
So there was a temporary,
there was a, there was

00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:24.880
a period there where
definitely I felt, you

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:27.790
have the ranks on your
shoulders, but, um,

00:31:27.820 --> 00:31:29.170
you, you don't know
where you you're doing.

00:31:29.170 --> 00:31:32.890
So for me, the, the,
the sort of the defense

00:31:32.890 --> 00:31:34.810
mechanism and what
that led me to want

00:31:34.810 --> 00:31:37.270
to do is you are going
to earn this rank.

00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:41.110
And you're going to start
right now because having

00:31:41.110 --> 00:31:44.860
a rank on your shoulder,
um, is, is a privilege.

00:31:45.340 --> 00:31:46.270
It's a privilege.

00:31:46.270 --> 00:31:48.370
You now have, uh, the
ability to affect the

00:31:48.370 --> 00:31:51.650
collective positively
and negatively and.

00:31:52.485 --> 00:31:54.795
If, if you're, if
you're not prepared

00:31:54.795 --> 00:31:56.565
for the responsibility
that comes along with

00:31:56.565 --> 00:31:58.575
that, and you're in for
yourself, the collective

00:31:58.575 --> 00:32:00.525
is taking a back seat,
everybody's paying

00:32:00.525 --> 00:32:02.055
for that shortcoming.

00:32:03.045 --> 00:32:05.445
And, um, and, and,
and so yeah, what it

00:32:05.445 --> 00:32:08.325
did for me is just, it
was extra motivation.

00:32:08.775 --> 00:32:11.025
The bridge was cut behind
me, so to speak, right.

00:32:11.925 --> 00:32:13.965
I just, I just had to
go all out and try to

00:32:13.965 --> 00:32:16.545
make the best out of
the experience that I

00:32:16.545 --> 00:32:18.855
had to cross it over
to where I was going.

00:32:18.855 --> 00:32:20.925
And it took no time
to figure out how that

00:32:20.925 --> 00:32:21.795
was going to work.

00:32:22.865 --> 00:32:24.755
So some people will say
fake it till you make

00:32:24.755 --> 00:32:26.675
it when you're in there,
pretend like you have it,

00:32:26.705 --> 00:32:28.535
but you took a different
approach and you said,

00:32:28.625 --> 00:32:31.265
okay, I've got the
stripes on my shoulder

00:32:31.265 --> 00:32:35.765
now and I'm going
to really earn them.

00:32:36.005 --> 00:32:38.135
I'm really going to own
it and make it my own.

00:32:38.255 --> 00:32:41.495
And for better or
worse, as I look back,

00:32:41.525 --> 00:32:43.175
I can't say it was
for lack of trying.

00:32:44.075 --> 00:32:44.825
No question.

00:32:44.915 --> 00:32:45.875
That's a good
way to do it.

00:32:45.965 --> 00:32:48.065
Unquestionably,
controlling, you know,

00:32:48.185 --> 00:32:50.015
what was within my
sphere of influence.

00:32:50.555 --> 00:32:54.875
And, um, and, and really,
I believe all I could

00:32:54.875 --> 00:32:57.185
ask myself was work as
hard as I possibly could.

00:32:57.635 --> 00:32:58.025
Right.

00:32:58.295 --> 00:33:01.205
And I would never look
back and say, you, you

00:33:01.205 --> 00:33:03.305
missed an opportunity to
really give it your all

00:33:03.785 --> 00:33:04.985
and you failed miserably.

00:33:05.255 --> 00:33:07.385
It might've been, you
failed miserably, but

00:33:07.385 --> 00:33:09.485
you tried everything
you possibly could so.

00:33:09.735 --> 00:33:10.225
Right.

00:33:10.225 --> 00:33:10.405
Yeah.

00:33:11.014 --> 00:33:14.100
Well as I think back.

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:16.440
So my father was
Vancouver police.

00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:17.970
My grandfather,
never met him, he was

00:33:17.970 --> 00:33:19.080
Vancouver police as well.

00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:21.840
Actually, he's one of the
ones that this company is

00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:24.900
named after he was Silver
Armeneau VPD detective,

00:33:25.410 --> 00:33:27.990
uh, Cornelius Bader,
my other grandfather

00:33:27.990 --> 00:33:28.860
was an entrepreneur.

00:33:28.860 --> 00:33:30.340
I took the silver,
I took the core,

00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:31.110
put 'em together.

00:33:31.170 --> 00:33:32.040
Beautiful name.

00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:35.430
Um, but my father, he
was VPD and he was on

00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:37.650
the very ERT and then
he was in charge of

00:33:37.650 --> 00:33:39.270
it for, for some time.

00:33:39.390 --> 00:33:44.100
And, uh, consequently,
we would have most of

00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:47.850
the team over in the
house and I got to see

00:33:47.850 --> 00:33:52.370
the different people
involved in over the

00:33:52.370 --> 00:33:53.270
period period of time.

00:33:53.270 --> 00:33:56.570
See how the stresses
of work can start

00:33:56.570 --> 00:33:57.470
effecting people.

00:33:57.560 --> 00:34:01.040
And one, he's passed
away about a year ago,

00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:04.580
but, um,  got into the
bottle pretty heavy.

00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:07.850
Another fellow, um,
resigned, took himself

00:34:07.850 --> 00:34:10.370
off the team, took
himself out of policing

00:34:10.370 --> 00:34:12.860
altogether, moved up
north a bit and ended

00:34:12.860 --> 00:34:14.030
up taking his own life.

00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:18.050
Um, everybody kind
of deals with things

00:34:18.139 --> 00:34:19.639
differently and I'd
look at how my father

00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.070
would deal with things
and how anger would

00:34:22.070 --> 00:34:25.070
come out in certain
ways when in hindsight,

00:34:25.070 --> 00:34:27.230
looking back what I
would view as normal

00:34:27.230 --> 00:34:29.780
behavior, it was, it was
very, very different.

00:34:30.350 --> 00:34:32.960
Um, I think in the
very early, the days

00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:37.250
of the ERT there, um,
the mental conditioning

00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:42.570
aspect of it was confined
to, uh, the warrior

00:34:42.570 --> 00:34:46.590
mindset, as opposed to
the mental resiliency.

00:34:47.640 --> 00:34:50.700
When did that whole
resiliency piece start

00:34:50.700 --> 00:34:53.310
to really take hold
that, that you could see?

00:34:55.110 --> 00:34:57.120
The real question is
when did we lose it?

00:34:57.960 --> 00:34:59.810
You know, well you're
looking at warrior

00:34:59.810 --> 00:35:02.780
culture and not to
compare, say ERT with the

00:35:02.780 --> 00:35:05.630
samurais, but we'll use
the samurais for example.

00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:05.900
Right?

00:35:06.080 --> 00:35:06.470
Sure.

00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:08.330
A lot of the, a lot
of the pillars of

00:35:08.330 --> 00:35:12.080
resiliency were already
within their mindset.

00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:14.480
You know, they had a
sense of higher purpose.

00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.670
There was a social aspect
to it, there was the

00:35:16.670 --> 00:35:17.960
physical aspect to it.

00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:19.880
There was a spiritual
aspect to it and

00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:20.840
the emotional side.

00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:22.910
And they were, you know,
they brought all those

00:35:22.910 --> 00:35:23.780
things together as well.

00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:25.460
Those are the pillars
of resiliency.

00:35:25.460 --> 00:35:25.730
Right.

00:35:26.030 --> 00:35:26.390
Right.

00:35:26.390 --> 00:35:28.400
And so what ended up
happening, I think

00:35:28.910 --> 00:35:31.310
over, over the course
of whatever centuries,

00:35:31.310 --> 00:35:32.840
millenniums, whatever
the case may be.

00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:36.590
Um, we we've lost the
bigger picture and it

00:35:36.590 --> 00:35:41.540
became a sort of, uh,
it sort of became a one

00:35:41.540 --> 00:35:43.730
dimensional approach
to problem solving.

00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:44.030
Right.

00:35:44.540 --> 00:35:48.800
And, uh, when I, when I
think of my beginnings

00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:52.370
on the team, so now it
would have been in 2007

00:35:52.370 --> 00:35:55.550
or whatever, at the time
the old school, you know,

00:35:55.700 --> 00:35:56.630
ERT guys were still.

00:35:58.005 --> 00:36:01.005
I have a, they had a
death grip on the team

00:36:01.005 --> 00:36:02.895
in terms of case, some of
them were still in P in

00:36:02.895 --> 00:36:03.855
position of leadership.

00:36:04.335 --> 00:36:06.165
Uh, definitely, uh,
one of the, one of

00:36:06.165 --> 00:36:08.925
them was at the helm of
the team at the time.

00:36:09.165 --> 00:36:12.165
And, um, I remember
vividly, you know, going

00:36:12.165 --> 00:36:14.655
to a hostage rescue
and actually, you know,

00:36:15.735 --> 00:36:18.195
conducting it with,
with, with two or three

00:36:18.195 --> 00:36:19.035
of the other guys.

00:36:19.095 --> 00:36:21.765
And, uh, and when one
of the, uh, supervisor

00:36:21.765 --> 00:36:22.805
asked, they, should
we give the guys

00:36:22.805 --> 00:36:24.345
some recognition for
this or whatever.

00:36:24.345 --> 00:36:26.205
It was like, wow,
that's their job, right?

00:36:26.775 --> 00:36:27.975
That was kind of
the mentality.

00:36:28.425 --> 00:36:31.155
But I think reinforcing
that purpose and Hey

00:36:31.155 --> 00:36:33.225
guys, this was a, you
know, a really tough

00:36:33.225 --> 00:36:35.325
call that we sent
you to, uh, you did

00:36:35.325 --> 00:36:37.725
a fantastic job and
here's some recognition.

00:36:37.725 --> 00:36:40.455
So now there's a positive
attachment with this,

00:36:40.455 --> 00:36:42.285
and your sense of purpose
has increased and all

00:36:42.285 --> 00:36:42.795
these other things.

00:36:42.795 --> 00:36:44.205
So they all feed into
each other right.

00:36:45.015 --> 00:36:48.675
And, uh, there was always
on the ERT side, just

00:36:48.675 --> 00:36:51.585
like there is on the
military side, um, a

00:36:51.585 --> 00:36:54.645
strong importance given
to sort of being tough

00:36:55.995 --> 00:37:00.205
and, uh, being tough as
much more to skin deep.

00:37:00.645 --> 00:37:01.465
Hugely.

00:37:01.465 --> 00:37:03.375
Being, being tough is
sometimes having the

00:37:03.375 --> 00:37:06.735
ability to say, this is
too much for me, or how

00:37:06.735 --> 00:37:07.815
do I get better at this?

00:37:07.815 --> 00:37:10.425
Or what can I do better
here and show some

00:37:10.425 --> 00:37:12.545
vulnerable, vulnerable
vulnerability.

00:37:13.565 --> 00:37:15.365
mixing up two
languages, two of

00:37:15.365 --> 00:37:18.665
which I don't speak
officially, but, um.

00:37:18.755 --> 00:37:23.055
But you know, and so
my thing has always

00:37:23.055 --> 00:37:27.195
been focused on what
you can do to be

00:37:27.195 --> 00:37:28.695
better all around.

00:37:28.755 --> 00:37:30.975
And you'll never
have to project an

00:37:30.975 --> 00:37:31.995
image of toughness.

00:37:31.995 --> 00:37:33.345
You will just beat off.

00:37:33.645 --> 00:37:36.285
And generally
people don't try to

00:37:36.285 --> 00:37:38.055
overcompensate as
they have something.

00:37:38.415 --> 00:37:38.685
Right.

00:37:38.715 --> 00:37:42.195
Which ties right into why
police officers should

00:37:42.195 --> 00:37:45.105
be good at controlling
suspects on the ground

00:37:45.135 --> 00:37:48.705
or, or even, you know,
uh, being able to sustain

00:37:48.705 --> 00:37:51.105
an assault standing up
and be able to, to, to

00:37:51.135 --> 00:37:53.455
react appropriately,
do all those things and

00:37:53.485 --> 00:37:56.055
have a certain level
of stress resistance to

00:37:56.055 --> 00:37:58.515
some of those events so
that they never feel the

00:37:58.515 --> 00:38:00.855
need to overcompensate
for the things that

00:38:00.855 --> 00:38:03.435
they're insecure in, if
that makes any sense.

00:38:03.435 --> 00:38:03.675
So.

00:38:04.545 --> 00:38:05.445
It makes a lot of sense.

00:38:05.805 --> 00:38:07.935
So for me, sorry, I
went on a bit of a

00:38:07.935 --> 00:38:11.505
segue here, but, but
for me, um, it's a very

00:38:11.505 --> 00:38:12.345
different game now.

00:38:12.345 --> 00:38:15.945
I think over the course
of the last, I would say

00:38:15.945 --> 00:38:19.065
probably I'd say five
to 10 years and, uh,

00:38:19.095 --> 00:38:21.375
as more of this newer
generation is starting

00:38:21.375 --> 00:38:23.805
coming through and
there's a recognition

00:38:23.835 --> 00:38:25.905
organizationally, not
just from the RCMP,

00:38:25.905 --> 00:38:27.975
but from a variety of
different organizations

00:38:27.985 --> 00:38:29.385
are important than
the, you know, the,

00:38:29.595 --> 00:38:31.215
the importance of
mental wellness and

00:38:31.215 --> 00:38:32.055
emotional wellness.

00:38:32.625 --> 00:38:35.505
And, um, and it's
bleeding, it's bleeding

00:38:35.505 --> 00:38:36.855
into everything
and it should.

00:38:37.545 --> 00:38:40.635
And so I think that
now we're doing a

00:38:40.635 --> 00:38:42.465
much, much better
and it's not perfect.

00:38:42.645 --> 00:38:44.865
It's not perfect, but
we're doing especially

00:38:45.075 --> 00:38:46.645
an M speaking about
the team here.

00:38:46.665 --> 00:38:46.965
Right.

00:38:47.185 --> 00:38:50.385
Not, not necessarily
you know, painting with

00:38:50.385 --> 00:38:53.085
a, with a broad brush
here, just to team.

00:38:54.285 --> 00:38:57.665
And, uh, yeah, I mean, I,
you know, I think there

00:38:57.675 --> 00:39:00.405
is no going backwards
now ever because we've

00:39:00.405 --> 00:39:02.925
had, we've had plenty of
our guys go with to some

00:39:02.925 --> 00:39:04.755
incredible things that
you would have thought

00:39:04.815 --> 00:39:07.545
years ago would have
definitely, definitely

00:39:07.545 --> 00:39:10.155
benched a bunch of guys
for a long, long time.

00:39:10.785 --> 00:39:12.355
And the prospect of
speaking, you know, I'm,

00:39:12.355 --> 00:39:14.655
I'm thinking about a
gentlemen, you mentioned

00:39:14.655 --> 00:39:15.615
that took his own life.

00:39:15.825 --> 00:39:18.975
The prospect of speaking
about those things

00:39:18.975 --> 00:39:21.735
back in the day would
have been, you know.

00:39:22.245 --> 00:39:22.545
Oh.

00:39:22.635 --> 00:39:23.715
A sacrilege, right?

00:39:23.715 --> 00:39:23.915
Like.

00:39:23.985 --> 00:39:24.575
It was looked down upon.

00:39:24.575 --> 00:39:25.425
What are you doing?

00:39:25.425 --> 00:39:27.975
Just drink another
drink, you know, like.

00:39:28.035 --> 00:39:28.215
Right.

00:39:28.415 --> 00:39:33.905
Well, like I say, one
of them, I, I, you

00:39:33.905 --> 00:39:35.225
know what, I won't,
I won't say the name.

00:39:35.225 --> 00:39:37.265
I won't say the nickname,
but very heavy into

00:39:37.265 --> 00:39:40.145
the drink, but this
fellow, he said, um, I

00:39:40.145 --> 00:39:42.695
remember he was at the,
uh, the kitchen table

00:39:42.695 --> 00:39:45.725
talking about how he
would start shivering

00:39:45.725 --> 00:39:48.125
and convulsing violently
as he started to drive

00:39:48.125 --> 00:39:50.045
over the bridge and he'd
break down into tears

00:39:50.375 --> 00:39:51.245
and he didn't know why.

00:39:51.305 --> 00:39:52.805
And this was as he's
driving over the bridge

00:39:52.805 --> 00:39:55.985
to go into work and the
incident that he was

00:39:55.985 --> 00:40:02.160
involved with,wasn't even
one that I think people

00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:03.899
would look at it and say,
well, are you kidding me?

00:40:03.899 --> 00:40:04.529
Is that it?

00:40:04.589 --> 00:40:07.200
But the fact that the
balance of life and

00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:10.259
death did stand, was
held within his hands

00:40:10.319 --> 00:40:12.480
and the fact that he
didn't react in a way

00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.640
that he thought he would
react or that he figured

00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:15.750
he should have reacted.

00:40:16.290 --> 00:40:18.120
Uh, really didn't
sit well with him.

00:40:18.180 --> 00:40:21.540
And on top of that, I
didn't get the sense

00:40:21.660 --> 00:40:24.000
that there's a heck of
a lot of support from

00:40:24.089 --> 00:40:26.460
management in the,
in the whole process.

00:40:27.180 --> 00:40:31.049
And I, I remember
him telling the story

00:40:31.049 --> 00:40:32.339
and I remember him
going through it

00:40:32.339 --> 00:40:33.480
and looking at it.

00:40:33.509 --> 00:40:39.180
And the, I was very young
at the time and thinking,

00:40:39.450 --> 00:40:40.890
well, that's not, it,
that's not what a tough

00:40:40.890 --> 00:40:42.089
person does right.

00:40:42.089 --> 00:40:44.399
And cause that was, that
was how I was raised.

00:40:44.399 --> 00:40:46.259
And that's how everybody
kinda kinda thought

00:40:46.589 --> 00:40:48.029
maybe he doesn't
belong on the team.

00:40:48.569 --> 00:40:50.339
When in fact the
guy was a perfect

00:40:50.339 --> 00:40:51.180
fit for the team.

00:40:51.210 --> 00:40:55.259
Had he had these mental
resiliencies in place

00:40:55.259 --> 00:40:57.690
and had a support network
for being able to reframe

00:40:57.690 --> 00:41:00.735
that incident in a
way that was positive.

00:41:01.995 --> 00:41:02.535
Yeah.

00:41:02.735 --> 00:41:05.555
As I, um, as I completed
a research project, when

00:41:05.555 --> 00:41:07.085
I first moved to the
commanding officer's

00:41:07.085 --> 00:41:09.725
office, um, I asked for
permission to go around

00:41:09.725 --> 00:41:11.945
and interview people that
were involved in critical

00:41:11.945 --> 00:41:14.075
use of force and half
the conversations about

00:41:14.435 --> 00:41:17.645
what was done with them,
following the incident.

00:41:17.675 --> 00:41:20.855
I mean, pre post and
pre, during and post

00:41:20.855 --> 00:41:22.595
incidents, you know,
just to see where the

00:41:22.595 --> 00:41:24.455
balls were dropped so
that we could obviously

00:41:24.455 --> 00:41:26.765
pick up some slack and
tighten up some things.

00:41:27.545 --> 00:41:30.595
And I was absolutely
amazed the mud, the

00:41:30.605 --> 00:41:33.245
vast majority of our
members weren't actually.

00:41:33.975 --> 00:41:38.895
Um, adversely afflicted
by whatever incident they

00:41:38.895 --> 00:41:39.915
actually responded to.

00:41:39.915 --> 00:41:42.065
It was the way they
were treated did after.

00:41:42.605 --> 00:41:44.255
So when people come
into policing and

00:41:44.255 --> 00:41:46.445
come into these first
responder job, they

00:41:46.445 --> 00:41:48.634
have an expectations
of some of the things

00:41:48.634 --> 00:41:49.265
they're going to see.

00:41:49.295 --> 00:41:51.455
Therefore there's a
pre-loading of the

00:41:51.455 --> 00:41:53.795
information and weary,
and the punch you expect

00:41:53.795 --> 00:41:55.355
is better than the
punch you don't expect.

00:41:55.395 --> 00:41:55.625
Right?

00:41:55.865 --> 00:41:58.895
So then they would go to
work on the daily with an

00:41:58.895 --> 00:42:02.255
acceptance, and that this
may be the case today.

00:42:02.255 --> 00:42:04.295
I prepare for this,
I have this training

00:42:04.295 --> 00:42:05.915
and that training
and, and, and so,

00:42:06.095 --> 00:42:08.134
but what they didn't
prepare for is to get

00:42:08.134 --> 00:42:10.145
abandoned along the way.

00:42:10.384 --> 00:42:13.325
And unfortunately,
it's not always, it

00:42:13.325 --> 00:42:15.485
doesn't, it's not
always an organizational

00:42:15.485 --> 00:42:17.495
thing where everybody
dropped the ball, but

00:42:17.495 --> 00:42:20.225
sometimes it's just
that one person, right.

00:42:20.525 --> 00:42:22.295
It's that one
person that didn't

00:42:22.295 --> 00:42:23.225
quite get it right.

00:42:23.675 --> 00:42:26.015
And was going through
a clinical process at

00:42:26.015 --> 00:42:28.625
the time at which the
person that was actually

00:42:28.685 --> 00:42:31.775
a part of the incident
is hypersensitive

00:42:31.985 --> 00:42:33.035
following an incident.

00:42:33.035 --> 00:42:34.805
And they should
be, you know, cause

00:42:34.805 --> 00:42:35.615
it's abnormal.

00:42:35.615 --> 00:42:36.755
Like we're sending
our people to

00:42:36.755 --> 00:42:38.015
abnormal situations.

00:42:38.555 --> 00:42:40.955
And then, and then,
and then, you know,

00:42:41.195 --> 00:42:43.535
uh, something was said,
or something was done

00:42:43.535 --> 00:42:46.520
or an attitude was
taken and, and, and,

00:42:46.540 --> 00:42:49.630
and the person felt
completely, um, betrayal,

00:42:50.260 --> 00:42:52.480
betrayal, like a, a
strong sense of betrayal

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:53.890
of being betrayed
by the organization.

00:42:54.550 --> 00:42:57.520
Uh, and then, you know,
it's interesting too,

00:42:57.520 --> 00:42:59.650
because, and I tell this
to member members all the

00:42:59.650 --> 00:43:02.620
time, it's like the force
treated me like crap.

00:43:02.650 --> 00:43:04.200
Well, we've had this
conversation for

00:43:04.210 --> 00:43:06.220
say, uh, two hours.

00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.460
And, and you've
mentioned this person

00:43:09.520 --> 00:43:11.470
900 times, right?

00:43:12.670 --> 00:43:15.340
Is this person
representing the force?

00:43:16.150 --> 00:43:17.950
To a certain extent
they do, but they

00:43:17.950 --> 00:43:18.910
are not the force.

00:43:18.910 --> 00:43:20.170
They are not the
organization.

00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:22.750
There'll be one person
that was your disabler.

00:43:22.750 --> 00:43:25.660
And he really caused some
severe damage, right.

00:43:26.680 --> 00:43:28.300
So with the idea,
yeah, it's just,

00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:29.620
it's tough, right?

00:43:29.620 --> 00:43:32.530
Because if you have a
line of say 10 people

00:43:32.530 --> 00:43:34.870
that have the ability
to impact somebody's

00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:37.330
career or their lives
and the lives of their

00:43:37.330 --> 00:43:43.180
family, all it takes is
one, it just takes one.

00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:43.600
Totally.

00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:45.730
So they have to
be in unison, they

00:43:45.730 --> 00:43:46.750
have to be in sync.

00:43:46.810 --> 00:43:49.330
They have to be squared
away of the processes.

00:43:49.330 --> 00:43:50.440
They have to be,
they have to be

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.470
prioritizing wellness
over, over anything

00:43:53.470 --> 00:43:55.090
else in recovery,
over anything else.

00:43:55.090 --> 00:43:56.620
And they all have to
be on the same page.

00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:58.650
And if they don't,
somebody will pay.

00:43:59.170 --> 00:44:02.380
A lot of the retired
police officers that,

00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:04.890
uh, not at all, but I
see a lot of them that

00:44:04.890 --> 00:44:09.569
I've dealt with will
have a resentment or

00:44:09.569 --> 00:44:13.439
a, an antiestablishment
attitude after getting

00:44:13.439 --> 00:44:15.419
out of policing as
they look back because

00:44:15.419 --> 00:44:18.779
of those one or two
people that, that's

00:44:18.779 --> 00:44:20.460
a very good analogy
that you put forward.

00:44:22.319 --> 00:44:27.689
The issue that you also
brought up was having

00:44:27.689 --> 00:44:30.750
the, um, the confidence
of being able to deal

00:44:30.750 --> 00:44:32.580
with people in the
street in a way where

00:44:32.580 --> 00:44:36.210
you now no longer have
to overuse force or

00:44:36.689 --> 00:44:38.250
over exert your role.

00:44:39.060 --> 00:44:42.060
And I quite often hear
the same thing come up.

00:44:42.120 --> 00:44:43.770
Well, how come we're
hiring these people

00:44:43.770 --> 00:44:45.180
who've never been
in a fight before?

00:44:45.270 --> 00:44:47.790
How come we're,
uh, prioritizing

00:44:48.060 --> 00:44:51.149
university education
over top of perhaps

00:44:51.149 --> 00:44:52.169
some street smarts.

00:44:52.529 --> 00:44:54.720
And I, and I see the
argument on both sides.

00:44:55.080 --> 00:44:58.020
I see the fact that
some compassion and

00:44:58.020 --> 00:44:59.730
a different approach
can quite often have

00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:02.279
a much better outcome
than perhaps going

00:45:02.279 --> 00:45:03.240
in with a heavy hand.

00:45:03.299 --> 00:45:05.160
And I also see the side
when the heavy hand

00:45:05.160 --> 00:45:06.149
needs to be applied.

00:45:06.779 --> 00:45:12.600
Um, but that process
of hiring, and I know

00:45:12.600 --> 00:45:15.149
you've heard it before
and then people will

00:45:15.149 --> 00:45:17.910
get into positions of
leadership and leadership

00:45:17.910 --> 00:45:20.700
will start to promote
other people with similar

00:45:21.299 --> 00:45:24.689
experiences, life values,
interests that they have

00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:27.689
and you start getting a
top heavy establishment

00:45:28.350 --> 00:45:32.129
with certain ethos
and outlooks.

00:45:32.129 --> 00:45:34.740
And if you get that
one or two negative

00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:38.700
individuals in there
it can start to

00:45:38.970 --> 00:45:41.610
sour an organization
rather quickly.

00:45:42.510 --> 00:45:44.480
And I think that's
where some of this media

00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:48.080
reporting has been, uh,
at one point the RCMP.

00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:51.290
I mean, you, you
couldn't paint it

00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:52.430
black mark on them.

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:55.910
And for a long time now,
I, all you hear about in

00:45:55.910 --> 00:45:58.370
the news is just really,
really negative things.

00:45:58.370 --> 00:46:00.350
And when we first started
talking here, you brought

00:46:00.350 --> 00:46:01.970
up, uh, uh, a recent one.

00:46:01.970 --> 00:46:07.230
I, you did a post on
Instagram as well, did

00:46:07.230 --> 00:46:09.270
you want to talk about,
I think I brought up

00:46:09.270 --> 00:46:11.310
a couple things here,
but why don't you just

00:46:11.370 --> 00:46:13.500
step off on whichever
one you'd like to.

00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:13.890
Okay.

00:46:13.890 --> 00:46:15.420
If I, if I get lost,
he'll have to bring

00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:18.380
me back on track here,
but I'll start with one

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:21.050
thing to begin with, we
know that group problem

00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:22.880
solving and effective
problem solving is

00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:24.860
better when you have
diversity of thoughts.

00:46:25.220 --> 00:46:25.520
Right?

00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:27.470
So if you surround
yourself with like-minded

00:46:27.470 --> 00:46:29.090
individual, it looks
like we're doing the

00:46:29.090 --> 00:46:31.370
right thing, but it's
not always the case.

00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:32.570
Now don't get me wrong.

00:46:32.660 --> 00:46:34.250
Evidently you could
say, well, if you're

00:46:34.250 --> 00:46:36.500
on an ERT team, the
majority of the guys are

00:46:36.500 --> 00:46:37.670
like-minded individuals.

00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:40.100
They're hard driven, go
getters that want to go

00:46:40.100 --> 00:46:41.840
out and do things and
they want to step up.

00:46:42.230 --> 00:46:44.510
But amongst those
personalities, there's

00:46:44.660 --> 00:46:46.940
a wide spectrum of
different variety.

00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:47.270
Right?

00:46:47.300 --> 00:46:51.560
And it's, and so you
can have, um, S some,

00:46:51.650 --> 00:46:55.760
um, similarities, but
having diversity of

00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.700
thoughts, especially is
critical for effective

00:46:58.700 --> 00:46:59.780
group problem-solving.

00:46:59.810 --> 00:47:02.390
And there was a spring,
uh, I believe a Stanford

00:47:02.390 --> 00:47:03.920
university or one of
the university in the

00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.180
states, I can never
remember which one.

00:47:05.870 --> 00:47:09.170
Um, had done basically
a, an exercise where they

00:47:09.170 --> 00:47:12.110
had a strong baseline
with a collective IQ,

00:47:12.110 --> 00:47:15.290
much higher than another
group that had diversity

00:47:15.410 --> 00:47:18.590
of thoughts, you know,
by, by way of backgrounds

00:47:18.590 --> 00:47:20.870
and ethnicities and
all these other things.

00:47:20.900 --> 00:47:21.140
Right.

00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:22.760
And what they end up
doing is they end up

00:47:23.339 --> 00:47:25.710
being able to figure,
being able to come up to

00:47:25.710 --> 00:47:28.440
the conclusion that the
group that had a lower

00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.049
combined IQ was still
better at effectively

00:47:31.049 --> 00:47:32.609
problem solve the.

00:47:32.609 --> 00:47:33.640
Interesting.

00:47:33.640 --> 00:47:36.120
Dilemmas that they were
given because there

00:47:36.120 --> 00:47:37.620
was, oh, you know, I've
dealt with this in my

00:47:37.620 --> 00:47:39.779
job and I've, I've got
this at an experience.

00:47:39.779 --> 00:47:42.330
And, you know, versus
we're all thinking the

00:47:42.330 --> 00:47:45.120
same cause if you're,
if you're group problem

00:47:45.120 --> 00:47:46.920
solving with people
that are all like you,

00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:48.110
you're essentially alone.

00:47:48.279 --> 00:47:48.961
You're in an
echo chamber.

00:47:48.961 --> 00:47:49.381
Problem solving.

00:47:49.441 --> 00:47:49.901
Yeah, you are.

00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:52.799
And so that's a very
interesting dichotomy,

00:47:52.799 --> 00:47:55.350
so to speak, but, uh,
but uh, you have to

00:47:55.350 --> 00:47:57.750
go on with, you know,
the media and, and,

00:47:57.750 --> 00:48:00.149
and, um, and hopefully
you haven't started

00:48:00.149 --> 00:48:02.600
something that we can't
put back in the box here.

00:48:02.630 --> 00:48:06.359
But, um, you know, cold
call me, call me naive,

00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:11.160
call me, um, idealist,
uh, I don't know.

00:48:11.310 --> 00:48:16.080
Um, but I do believe that
there is an ethical, uh,

00:48:16.080 --> 00:48:21.390
professional and, um,
ethical, professional

00:48:21.390 --> 00:48:25.710
and, and just outright,
um, responsibility

00:48:26.220 --> 00:48:29.250
to, um, to, to, to
stop the divide.

00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:29.520
Right?

00:48:29.850 --> 00:48:32.920
We're not what we are
seeing currently with

00:48:33.359 --> 00:48:37.140
the polarization is, is,
has the potential to be

00:48:37.140 --> 00:48:39.270
extremely self-harming
for this, for this,

00:48:39.569 --> 00:48:44.190
uh, species and a
prospect of us getting

00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:48.060
so bad to a point
where we self-destruct

00:48:48.299 --> 00:48:51.180
isn't that far off
and call me fatalistic

00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:53.189
or anything, but it
is, it is what it is.

00:48:53.189 --> 00:48:56.640
If we keep going down
those rabbit holes where

00:48:56.640 --> 00:48:59.310
we're getting further
and further and further

00:48:59.310 --> 00:49:02.370
apart, and we're, nobody
is unable to bring

00:49:02.370 --> 00:49:04.439
people back together
so that we can pull

00:49:04.439 --> 00:49:05.520
in the same direction.

00:49:05.669 --> 00:49:07.410
We're going to
have some serious

00:49:07.580 --> 00:49:09.529
problems as a species.

00:49:10.669 --> 00:49:10.730
Yeah.

00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:12.919
And we are not even
talking about, imagine

00:49:12.919 --> 00:49:15.319
electricity going
off when we saw it

00:49:15.319 --> 00:49:17.600
with COVID, you know,
it didn't take, it

00:49:17.600 --> 00:49:20.210
didn't take 24 hours
to find out that we

00:49:20.210 --> 00:49:21.109
couldn't work together.

00:49:21.169 --> 00:49:22.879
Everybody just went
running in there,

00:49:22.939 --> 00:49:24.170
you know, every
directions and.

00:49:24.170 --> 00:49:25.129
Gotta get toilet paper.

00:49:25.160 --> 00:49:25.339
Yeah.

00:49:25.350 --> 00:49:27.200
And when I say everyone,
obviously there's always

00:49:27.200 --> 00:49:28.759
the people that are
there to assist others.

00:49:28.759 --> 00:49:30.980
And we, we, we love them
and we were lucky you'd

00:49:30.990 --> 00:49:34.160
have them, but, um, you
know, it had, it had

00:49:34.160 --> 00:49:35.000
an incredible impact.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.520
And we're talking about
a virus with a survival

00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:42.109
rate that far exceeded
anything, not to downplay

00:49:42.109 --> 00:49:43.850
it, but you know, that
far exceeded anything

00:49:43.910 --> 00:49:45.500
that we would experience.

00:49:45.500 --> 00:49:49.730
If we had, I had, you
know, a vx gas attack or

00:49:49.730 --> 00:49:51.410
whatever the case may be,
you know, like something

00:49:51.410 --> 00:49:53.149
truly, truly dramatic.

00:49:54.020 --> 00:49:58.549
And so, you know,
I realize, yeah.

00:49:58.580 --> 00:50:00.230
And, and just being
devil's advocate, then

00:50:00.230 --> 00:50:02.779
kind of going through my
own processes, I realized

00:50:02.779 --> 00:50:03.740
that the news media.

00:50:04.575 --> 00:50:06.645
As we know it, uh,
especially the paper

00:50:06.645 --> 00:50:08.205
format is, is dying.

00:50:08.725 --> 00:50:10.845
It's a dying, it's
a dying business.

00:50:10.875 --> 00:50:13.275
And, uh, it's really,
really hard for them

00:50:13.275 --> 00:50:14.295
to even stay afloat.

00:50:14.505 --> 00:50:14.745
Right.

00:50:15.285 --> 00:50:18.255
So I realized that
there is a need for

00:50:18.255 --> 00:50:21.555
them to inject some
sensationalism in there

00:50:21.555 --> 00:50:24.195
so that they can hit
certain numbers that

00:50:24.195 --> 00:50:27.225
allows them to continue
proliferating news.

00:50:27.285 --> 00:50:27.555
Right.

00:50:28.245 --> 00:50:29.775
However, at some
point you kind of

00:50:29.775 --> 00:50:32.165
have to look at what
are we after here?

00:50:32.495 --> 00:50:36.065
Are we, are we
prioritizing financial

00:50:36.215 --> 00:50:42.725
gain or are we, uh, we
are, we prioritizing, um,

00:50:42.875 --> 00:50:45.275
man, human kinds, right?

00:50:45.634 --> 00:50:48.875
Uh, and, and, and our
ability to positively

00:50:48.875 --> 00:50:51.035
influence all of these
people and change

00:50:51.065 --> 00:50:52.355
millions of lives.

00:50:52.595 --> 00:50:54.575
So when you're at the
end of the day, what

00:50:54.575 --> 00:50:57.215
you are doing, you may
be successful, but are

00:50:57.215 --> 00:50:59.285
you, are you meaningful?

00:50:59.735 --> 00:51:02.404
You know, is that
something that, that

00:51:02.404 --> 00:51:04.955
actually truly makes a
difference and something

00:51:04.955 --> 00:51:06.215
that you can look at
yourself in the mirror

00:51:06.215 --> 00:51:08.015
and be extremely proud
to have been a part of?

00:51:08.015 --> 00:51:12.875
So for me, again, going
back on track, what I

00:51:12.875 --> 00:51:15.935
want to see is I want
to see fair reporting.

00:51:16.625 --> 00:51:20.915
I'm not, I'm not
asking for them to, um,

00:51:22.174 --> 00:51:26.045
sugarcoat the actions
of police officers if

00:51:26.045 --> 00:51:27.245
there is misconduct.

00:51:27.455 --> 00:51:28.475
Absolutely not.

00:51:28.625 --> 00:51:29.735
That's let's expose them.

00:51:29.735 --> 00:51:30.485
Let's deal with them.

00:51:30.485 --> 00:51:31.595
Let's do all
this good stuff.

00:51:33.495 --> 00:51:36.375
But adversely when,
when things are done.

00:51:36.705 --> 00:51:39.135
Um, and, and, and,
you know, members are

00:51:39.135 --> 00:51:41.625
rushing into a building
to save a two year old.

00:51:42.125 --> 00:51:42.395
Right?

00:51:42.395 --> 00:51:43.245
Like recently.

00:51:43.245 --> 00:51:44.685
Like in this case.

00:51:44.715 --> 00:51:45.075
Yes.

00:51:45.225 --> 00:51:47.415
And they were stabbed
in the process of

00:51:47.415 --> 00:51:52.155
doing so don't go out
and call and make a

00:51:52.165 --> 00:51:54.225
big headlines on your
newspaper that states

00:51:54.255 --> 00:51:55.725
police officers were cut.

00:51:56.925 --> 00:51:57.285
Right.

00:51:57.525 --> 00:51:59.775
Because it's semantics.

00:51:59.925 --> 00:52:00.435
I get it.

00:52:00.765 --> 00:52:03.315
But if I, if I speak to
somebody that has zero

00:52:03.315 --> 00:52:06.525
frame of reference and
I go, okay, two police

00:52:06.525 --> 00:52:07.335
officers were cut.

00:52:08.205 --> 00:52:09.705
And I said to
them, I need you to

00:52:09.705 --> 00:52:11.745
describe to me what
you just envisioned.

00:52:12.495 --> 00:52:12.795
Right.

00:52:12.855 --> 00:52:13.785
They, they would.

00:52:13.785 --> 00:52:14.395
Look at their finger.

00:52:14.395 --> 00:52:15.285
A hundred percent.

00:52:15.285 --> 00:52:16.425
They would think, you
know, when I caught

00:52:16.425 --> 00:52:17.175
myself with onion.

00:52:17.185 --> 00:52:18.855
So, cause we that's
what we do as humans,

00:52:18.855 --> 00:52:21.405
our cognitive, uh,
experiences are now

00:52:21.435 --> 00:52:23.325
attached to whatever
we know as a reality.

00:52:23.415 --> 00:52:23.655
Right.

00:52:24.750 --> 00:52:27.630
What police work
is, a lot of the

00:52:27.630 --> 00:52:30.900
times is extremely
gruesome, extremely,

00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.830
extremely gruesome.

00:52:31.830 --> 00:52:34.620
So if, if obstacle
or, uh, you know,

00:52:34.650 --> 00:52:37.560
stabbed that is a
serious, serious life

00:52:37.590 --> 00:52:40.440
altering potentially
life, the life ending

00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:44.460
situation and the person
that's done it also

00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:46.230
deserves to be exposed.

00:52:46.230 --> 00:52:47.700
And I'm not saying, I'm
not saying necessarily

00:52:47.700 --> 00:52:48.990
with their name or
anything like that,

00:52:48.990 --> 00:52:50.730
but I'm just saying
don't downplay it or

00:52:50.730 --> 00:52:53.250
diminish the actions
by saying that police

00:52:53.250 --> 00:52:53.800
officers were cut.

00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:55.290
Cause how he makes
us suspect sound

00:52:55.300 --> 00:52:58.230
like potentially you
did something right.

00:52:58.400 --> 00:52:59.890
We didn't do
anything that bad.

00:52:59.890 --> 00:53:01.980
Didn't trim his nails
well enough earlier

00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:03.000
and kinda cut the.

00:53:03.200 --> 00:53:03.760
That's right.

00:53:03.760 --> 00:53:06.230
And now the, the, the
police officers that

00:53:06.290 --> 00:53:09.970
entered this place
knowing, foresee, I

00:53:09.980 --> 00:53:11.780
don't know the details,
you know, for a fact,

00:53:11.780 --> 00:53:14.120
but like, we'll assume
that, we assume that

00:53:14.120 --> 00:53:16.160
there are weapons in
most of the houses that

00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:17.960
we go to, especially
if they're problematic.

00:53:18.010 --> 00:53:19.970
And I can tell you
that that's the case.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:20.690
There's no question.

00:53:21.200 --> 00:53:22.850
And if we were to
think about, you know,

00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:24.700
kitchen knives who
doesn't have that?

00:53:24.870 --> 00:53:25.220
Everyone.

00:53:25.420 --> 00:53:26.990
So yeah, so there's
always tactical

00:53:26.990 --> 00:53:28.790
considerations when
go on calls like this.

00:53:28.820 --> 00:53:32.150
And if the person is
emotionally disturbed to

00:53:32.150 --> 00:53:34.010
the point where you're
dealing now with a set

00:53:34.010 --> 00:53:36.260
of circumstances where
you have a two year

00:53:36.260 --> 00:53:38.420
old that's in danger
to the point where you

00:53:38.420 --> 00:53:40.970
launch essentially a
hostage rescue, right.

00:53:40.970 --> 00:53:43.880
Cause there is exigency
to do so, you know

00:53:43.940 --> 00:53:45.230
that some of those
things are going to

00:53:45.230 --> 00:53:46.010
be coming your way.

00:53:46.040 --> 00:53:48.250
Like that's an accepted
fact, like you will

00:53:48.250 --> 00:53:50.279
get either hurt or
you're going to have

00:53:50.279 --> 00:53:53.009
to respond to something
you will be faced with.

00:53:53.490 --> 00:53:56.400
So for them to have
that information

00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.259
front loaded in their
frontal cortex and be

00:53:58.259 --> 00:54:01.680
ready to go and do it
anyways, go get stabbed.

00:54:01.740 --> 00:54:03.720
And a, and a, and a
two-year-old is being

00:54:03.720 --> 00:54:07.230
rescued, um, needs
to be proliferated.

00:54:07.710 --> 00:54:09.210
It needs to be
proliferated.

00:54:09.210 --> 00:54:11.880
The public needs to see,
needs to hear the story

00:54:11.910 --> 00:54:15.000
and needs to see it as
much as they are entitled

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:18.089
to know when cops are
conducting themselves

00:54:18.270 --> 00:54:19.110
embarrassingly.

00:54:19.200 --> 00:54:19.620
Sure.

00:54:19.759 --> 00:54:20.000
Right.

00:54:20.330 --> 00:54:23.600
I think that's a really
tall order, particularly

00:54:23.600 --> 00:54:26.270
considering the negative
bias that we already

00:54:26.270 --> 00:54:29.630
talked about to begin
with that people look

00:54:29.630 --> 00:54:32.000
towards, you can look
towards a really positive

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.250
event and some people
clap, hey that's great.

00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.279
Glad to hear it, but the
negative ones and people

00:54:37.279 --> 00:54:38.540
just dwell over it.

00:54:38.690 --> 00:54:42.080
And on top of that,
the media, holy crow.

00:54:42.259 --> 00:54:44.630
So if we talk about print
media, these people said,

00:54:44.630 --> 00:54:46.430
wow, they're just doing
it to sell newspapers

00:54:46.430 --> 00:54:48.490
and a friend of mine
in the media says, no

00:54:48.490 --> 00:54:51.200
no it's so we can sell
advertising, right?

00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:53.465
Really that the better
their circulation the

00:54:53.465 --> 00:54:55.190
more advertising, the
more we have, and we've

00:54:55.190 --> 00:54:56.900
only got a limited amount
of space and we got to

00:54:56.900 --> 00:54:57.860
catch your attention.

00:54:58.490 --> 00:55:02.029
And so we'll, we'll
put it forth like this.

00:55:02.029 --> 00:55:03.350
And you're going to have
people with negative

00:55:03.350 --> 00:55:05.060
biases against law
enforcement because

00:55:05.060 --> 00:55:06.440
they got a speeding
ticket when they didn't

00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:07.160
think they should have.

00:55:07.160 --> 00:55:08.569
And this is our
way to get back and

00:55:08.900 --> 00:55:10.880
they've got a pen or
whatever it might be.

00:55:12.020 --> 00:55:14.910
And I know law
enforcement has, for

00:55:14.910 --> 00:55:16.950
a long time now,  been
taking the media out

00:55:16.979 --> 00:55:19.680
to, uh, on ride alongs,
take them out to the

00:55:19.680 --> 00:55:22.169
range, show 'em like
these are the decisions

00:55:22.169 --> 00:55:22.950
that you have to make.

00:55:22.950 --> 00:55:24.870
Here's some simulated
training that they

00:55:24.870 --> 00:55:28.680
go through to give a
better perspective in

00:55:28.680 --> 00:55:29.939
how things are reported.

00:55:31.080 --> 00:55:37.319
I don't know if that
change in how the media

00:55:37.319 --> 00:55:39.540
provides information is
ever going to get any

00:55:39.540 --> 00:55:42.089
better, particularly
considering that

00:55:42.089 --> 00:55:44.250
most people get their
information through

00:55:44.399 --> 00:55:47.220
online sources now,
and the online sources

00:55:47.220 --> 00:55:49.379
are heavily integrated
with advertising and

00:55:49.379 --> 00:55:53.470
revenue streams through
Google, which owns

00:55:53.490 --> 00:55:56.430
YouTube and Facebook
which owns Instagram.

00:55:56.430 --> 00:56:00.509
And you'll notice like
you brought up COVID you

00:56:00.509 --> 00:56:03.870
can't write something
on social media without

00:56:03.899 --> 00:56:06.450
the advertising company
coming in and putting

00:56:06.450 --> 00:56:09.180
their two bits on the,
uh, on, if you write in,

00:56:09.209 --> 00:56:10.350
Hey, I got my COVID shot.

00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:11.850
You're going to see
a thing that comes

00:56:11.850 --> 00:56:13.439
up underneath that
talks about COVID.

00:56:14.229 --> 00:56:18.029
I don't know if
fairness in reporting is

00:56:18.029 --> 00:56:21.240
something that we will
ever really see again.

00:56:21.359 --> 00:56:26.609
And when you talk about
this precipice of the

00:56:26.609 --> 00:56:29.819
divisiveness within,
uh, people right now

00:56:29.819 --> 00:56:33.209
and how the media and
most of our information

00:56:33.209 --> 00:56:34.939
sources are really
playing out up to that.

00:56:37.160 --> 00:56:37.870
I see it.

00:56:37.959 --> 00:56:39.819
I think most people
see it and it might

00:56:39.819 --> 00:56:41.649
be exacerbated by
what we actually

00:56:41.649 --> 00:56:42.490
read in the media.

00:56:42.490 --> 00:56:45.105
It might be greater in
our minds to what it

00:56:45.105 --> 00:56:49.095
might actually be, but
at some point it will

00:56:49.095 --> 00:56:51.915
reach a tipping point
and it'll self level

00:56:52.245 --> 00:56:53.805
for better or for worse.

00:56:54.285 --> 00:56:58.725
Um, but when you talk
about leadership and

00:56:58.725 --> 00:57:03.345
policing, which ties back
to who are we hiring and

00:57:03.345 --> 00:57:06.915
why, how do we develop
mental resiliencies?

00:57:06.945 --> 00:57:10.125
How do we develop basic
people skills and a

00:57:10.125 --> 00:57:12.525
value system so that
people can deal with

00:57:13.515 --> 00:57:15.645
at risk individuals or
people on the street in

00:57:15.645 --> 00:57:18.465
a way that's going to be
conducive to publicly,

00:57:18.735 --> 00:57:20.295
um, positive reporting.

00:57:20.985 --> 00:57:26.865
Um, you have been
developing a system

00:57:26.925 --> 00:57:30.195
to sort of change the
face of leadership

00:57:30.225 --> 00:57:33.225
in policing, which I
think will touch on

00:57:33.225 --> 00:57:35.025
all of these points
that you've brought up.

00:57:35.055 --> 00:57:36.975
It'll touch on how the
media reports on it,

00:57:37.305 --> 00:57:40.425
because the leadership
will now take hopefully

00:57:40.515 --> 00:57:42.315
a more proactive
approach and how

00:57:42.315 --> 00:57:45.045
they're and how they're
engaging the citizens.

00:57:45.285 --> 00:57:48.075
Like I've always thought,
holy crow, a boots on the

00:57:48.075 --> 00:57:51.095
ground hearts and minds
approach, like what the

00:57:51.095 --> 00:57:54.785
military will do when
they go into a, a foreign

00:57:54.785 --> 00:57:57.515
area, uh, by the police.

00:57:58.295 --> 00:58:00.965
We do wonders to
getting just the

00:58:00.965 --> 00:58:02.195
basic idea across.

00:58:02.195 --> 00:58:03.725
You talk about a
person getting cut

00:58:04.285 --> 00:58:05.225
well holy crow.

00:58:07.245 --> 00:58:09.135
I've known people who've
been stabbed, I've

00:58:09.135 --> 00:58:10.755
known people who've
been killed through,

00:58:10.815 --> 00:58:13.065
uh, by knives, you don't
have to go that deep.

00:58:13.425 --> 00:58:16.305
It doesn't have to
be that big of a

00:58:16.305 --> 00:58:19.785
stab and you can
do horrific damage.

00:58:20.175 --> 00:58:22.005
I remember I had
a, I used to bounce

00:58:22.305 --> 00:58:22.995
back in the day.

00:58:22.995 --> 00:58:23.745
So did I.

00:58:24.464 --> 00:58:27.405
Ozone Nightclub, out
in Surrey there back

00:58:27.405 --> 00:58:28.305
when that was around.

00:58:28.725 --> 00:58:33.855
And, uh, I, uh, I was
hired there, the guy

00:58:33.855 --> 00:58:35.895
didn't, I was working
at a gym at the time and

00:58:35.895 --> 00:58:38.585
this one of the owners
came by the gym and says,

00:58:38.595 --> 00:58:40.635
um, you'd be perfect.

00:58:40.665 --> 00:58:42.015
You should come, you
should come bounce

00:58:42.015 --> 00:58:43.155
at, uh, at the ozone.

00:58:43.155 --> 00:58:45.345
I wasn't even old
enough to attend the

00:58:45.345 --> 00:58:46.785
ozone, but no problem.

00:58:46.785 --> 00:58:47.235
I'll go there.

00:58:47.235 --> 00:58:48.105
I won't tell them my age.

00:58:48.105 --> 00:58:48.375
Right.

00:58:49.005 --> 00:58:51.585
Um, they had a mass
exodus of people leaving.

00:58:51.585 --> 00:58:53.445
Someone got shot in the
face and the parking

00:58:53.445 --> 00:58:55.725
lot, and a body was
found in the dumpster

00:58:55.725 --> 00:58:57.075
behind the strip club.

00:58:57.075 --> 00:58:58.185
That was right
next door to it.

00:58:58.875 --> 00:59:01.805
Um, but we encountered
knives there.

00:59:01.935 --> 00:59:04.215
A friend of mine, I gave
some body armor too,

00:59:04.215 --> 00:59:06.345
because I had a whole
bunch of old VPD stuff.

00:59:06.375 --> 00:59:08.205
And he ended up
getting poked in the

00:59:08.205 --> 00:59:09.585
belly and in the back.

00:59:09.675 --> 00:59:11.445
And, um, just
went through just

00:59:11.445 --> 00:59:11.955
a little bit.

00:59:12.015 --> 00:59:13.755
And then he caught it in
the arm and went through

00:59:13.755 --> 00:59:16.395
his, uh, his bicep when
he put his hand up to

00:59:16.395 --> 00:59:20.445
kind of block his, his
throat, but a bit of

00:59:20.445 --> 00:59:21.345
a degression there.

00:59:21.855 --> 00:59:23.835
Um, when we talk about
how these things are

00:59:23.835 --> 00:59:27.015
reported, if people
could understand the

00:59:27.015 --> 00:59:30.705
actual seriousness of
what an edge weapon.

00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:33.060
Can be to an individual.

00:59:33.060 --> 00:59:33.970
They said, well,
you got a guy and

00:59:33.970 --> 00:59:34.590
he's got a knife.

00:59:34.620 --> 00:59:35.130
Come on.

00:59:35.130 --> 00:59:36.390
I mean, the way he
just wrestled the

00:59:36.390 --> 00:59:37.200
knife out of his hand.

00:59:37.770 --> 00:59:38.130
What?

00:59:38.130 --> 00:59:41.670
He was X distance away,
how far away is that?

00:59:41.670 --> 00:59:43.470
And of course, most
police know about the

00:59:43.470 --> 00:59:46.020
Tueller drill and the
Megliato and all, all the

00:59:46.020 --> 00:59:51.360
other, um, uh, theories
on distance and how

00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:53.610
long a person can live
and how far away they

00:59:53.610 --> 00:59:55.860
can be, um, lethal too.

00:59:56.070 --> 00:59:59.400
But all of these little
points I think, could be

00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:01.380
addressed through what
you're talking about

01:00:02.040 --> 01:00:05.070
in the leadership and
policing, how leadership

01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:07.350
interacts with media,
how leadership interacts

01:00:07.350 --> 01:00:10.830
with the subordinates,
so that they interact

01:00:10.830 --> 01:00:11.790
with the general public.

01:00:11.910 --> 01:00:13.590
Is that sort of the
plan that you're, cause

01:00:13.590 --> 01:00:15.300
as you're talking here
and I'm thinking about,

01:00:15.660 --> 01:00:17.400
it sounds like a very
holistic approach that

01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:17.940
you're looking at.

01:00:18.170 --> 01:00:19.340
Yeah, absolutely it is.

01:00:19.340 --> 01:00:23.270
And, and, and the good
news is, um, just to go

01:00:23.270 --> 01:00:25.250
back on something you
said, cause I think I

01:00:25.250 --> 01:00:27.440
wouldn't really, it would
be a disservice for me to

01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.110
not sort of speak to it,
but, um, or at least to

01:00:30.110 --> 01:00:33.770
give you some semblance
of an opinion on it, um,

01:00:35.180 --> 01:00:38.420
I realize that striving
for fairness is going

01:00:38.420 --> 01:00:39.470
to always be difficult.

01:00:39.470 --> 01:00:41.060
Now the problem
is, is, is, is

01:00:41.060 --> 01:00:42.200
accountability, right?

01:00:42.710 --> 01:00:44.690
And so the
problem is this.

01:00:44.900 --> 01:00:48.350
We have a prime minister
right now that will not

01:00:48.350 --> 01:00:51.920
answer a question for
27 minutes while all of

01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:53.150
us are asking it again.

01:00:53.420 --> 01:00:55.670
And after three or
four times that he's

01:00:56.190 --> 01:00:58.920
skillfully skirt, uh,
skirted his way out of

01:00:58.920 --> 01:00:59.850
answering the question.

01:01:00.090 --> 01:01:03.360
Nobody asks it again
and I'm standing there

01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:06.750
going, somebody ask
that question again.

01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:07.620
Hold them accountable.

01:01:07.650 --> 01:01:07.920
Yeah.

01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:11.030
So, and so this is
what the issue is here.

01:01:11.270 --> 01:01:13.670
The public has
a lot of power.

01:01:13.730 --> 01:01:16.370
If the public to turn
around and say, tell

01:01:16.370 --> 01:01:19.250
us what truly happens
here, tell us who's

01:01:19.250 --> 01:01:22.280
truly dying from COVID,
tell us who we would

01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:24.590
get the information
unvetted right?

01:01:24.970 --> 01:01:26.750
But there's a lot of
information floating

01:01:26.750 --> 01:01:29.060
around that just we're
not getting, and we're

01:01:29.060 --> 01:01:30.890
not asking for it, so
we're not getting it.

01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:34.070
So it's the same with
this, you know, take

01:01:34.070 --> 01:01:37.870
one isolated incident
because we can go on,

01:01:37.870 --> 01:01:39.530
on tangents for days
with how we're going

01:01:39.530 --> 01:01:40.280
to make that happen.

01:01:40.310 --> 01:01:42.350
How is it actually
logistically feasible

01:01:42.350 --> 01:01:43.640
and how do we all
work together and

01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:44.330
whatever, right?

01:01:45.050 --> 01:01:47.030
But if you look at say
the incident with a two

01:01:47.030 --> 01:01:49.880
year old was, so there
is enough information

01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:52.340
out there to know that
that occurred, right?

01:01:52.670 --> 01:01:55.520
And so now what needs to
happen is there needs to

01:01:55.520 --> 01:01:59.330
be a public backlash on
the way it was addressed

01:01:59.330 --> 01:01:59.960
in the first place.

01:02:00.170 --> 01:02:02.630
Let's call it 500
emails, let's call it

01:02:02.630 --> 01:02:06.770
5,000 emails, let's
call it 50,000 emails.

01:02:07.190 --> 01:02:10.004
At some point it
will have an impact.

01:02:10.275 --> 01:02:12.285
It will have an impact
because the next person

01:02:12.285 --> 01:02:14.325
that comes along a
similar situation

01:02:14.325 --> 01:02:16.815
will be last time we
reported on this and

01:02:16.815 --> 01:02:18.134
we weren't accurate.

01:02:18.674 --> 01:02:21.615
And we weren't, we're
going to get 50,000

01:02:21.615 --> 01:02:23.205
emails following, right.

01:02:23.205 --> 01:02:24.464
There was no
repercussions.

01:02:24.825 --> 01:02:26.955
It's acting with our
repercussions just

01:02:26.955 --> 01:02:27.795
leads us to do anything.

01:02:27.795 --> 01:02:29.714
I'll give you an example
of this and I'll, I'll,

01:02:29.805 --> 01:02:32.384
I'll sort of lead right
into your bouncing,

01:02:32.415 --> 01:02:33.525
your bouncing example.

01:02:33.525 --> 01:02:35.714
Cause I was a bouncer
in Montreal during

01:02:35.714 --> 01:02:37.345
a biker war between
the work machine,

01:02:37.365 --> 01:02:38.025
the hell's angels.

01:02:38.234 --> 01:02:40.484
It was war zone, you
know, no question.

01:02:41.055 --> 01:02:44.295
But it's interesting
because as this war was

01:02:44.295 --> 01:02:46.935
unfolding and it was, as
it was getting worse and

01:02:46.935 --> 01:02:48.765
worse and people were
dying everywhere and,

01:02:49.065 --> 01:02:50.685
and caught in the cross
fires and people were

01:02:50.685 --> 01:02:52.725
trying to kill people
and club lineups with

01:02:52.964 --> 01:02:55.754
rocket launchers and
all kinds of stupidness.

01:02:56.355 --> 01:02:58.424
Um, one of the things
that never happened

01:02:58.424 --> 01:03:00.464
for the longest time
was for people to say

01:03:00.495 --> 01:03:02.475
enough is enough, right?

01:03:02.714 --> 01:03:05.355
And so, and so those
things proliferated

01:03:05.355 --> 01:03:07.185
and it continued and
they just, it just, it

01:03:07.185 --> 01:03:09.045
was getting worse and
worse and eventually.

01:03:09.810 --> 01:03:10.710
An innocent guy killed.

01:03:11.009 --> 01:03:13.859
An eight year old, got,
got, got killed, right?

01:03:14.220 --> 01:03:17.339
And his Jeep blew up in
a, essentially a vehicle

01:03:17.339 --> 01:03:20.189
born IED and boom.

01:03:20.549 --> 01:03:22.589
And he received, you
know, some, some piece

01:03:22.589 --> 01:03:24.930
of parts of the Jeep and,
and, and, and his life

01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:26.640
ended when that happened.

01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:30.569
Everybody in Quebec got
together and they're

01:03:30.569 --> 01:03:31.439
like, enough's enough.

01:03:31.439 --> 01:03:32.310
They put their foot down.

01:03:32.339 --> 01:03:35.759
It took a year and a half
to two years, following

01:03:35.759 --> 01:03:39.149
that to make hanging out
with people with colors,

01:03:39.210 --> 01:03:41.339
illegal, I'm talking
about like, obviously.

01:03:41.379 --> 01:03:41.759
Gang colors.

01:03:41.779 --> 01:03:42.870
Biker gang colors, right.

01:03:43.230 --> 01:03:45.540
And, and having any
gathering of more than

01:03:45.540 --> 01:03:48.329
so-and-so the sentences
got way stifer and

01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:52.049
the pursuit and to the
budgets increase for the

01:03:52.049 --> 01:03:54.149
units that were actually
chasing those guys.

01:03:54.149 --> 01:03:56.700
And, and, and, and
eventually what happened

01:03:56.730 --> 01:03:59.609
is there was nothing
to be found in Quebec

01:03:59.609 --> 01:04:00.540
in terms of bikers.

01:04:00.600 --> 01:04:02.490
It was very boucher
was in jail.

01:04:02.490 --> 01:04:03.450
His son was in jail.

01:04:03.450 --> 01:04:05.250
The nomads were
completed as banded.

01:04:05.250 --> 01:04:06.029
It was everywhere.

01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:10.529
And so, and so all it
took is for everybody

01:04:10.529 --> 01:04:11.520
to get together once.

01:04:11.790 --> 01:04:12.089
Right.

01:04:12.750 --> 01:04:14.549
And, um, anyways.

01:04:14.990 --> 01:04:15.939
We're seeing that now.

01:04:16.310 --> 01:04:16.669
We do.

01:04:16.759 --> 01:04:19.129
And they call it SLO
or social license to

01:04:19.129 --> 01:04:22.040
operate, and we're seeing
it, but not necessarily

01:04:22.040 --> 01:04:22.729
in a positive way.

01:04:22.729 --> 01:04:23.089
No.

01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:23.970
Exactly.

01:04:24.200 --> 01:04:28.310
And this obviously a
good tool can always be

01:04:28.310 --> 01:04:30.600
used a bad purpose right?

01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:32.820
You can have the, the,
the most beautiful,

01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:36.920
you know, Lapua and
uh, either kill an

01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:38.560
elephant or, or people.

01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:39.290
Yes.

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:40.570
Yes.

01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:43.700
You know, um, anyways,
so yeah, I, I do

01:04:43.700 --> 01:04:45.680
believe that, um, and
I don't want to make

01:04:45.680 --> 01:04:49.250
it sound like, um, I
single-handedly, or, you

01:04:49.250 --> 01:04:51.560
know, hold the key to
fixing all the policing

01:04:51.560 --> 01:04:55.070
problems because it
would be, um, extremely

01:04:55.130 --> 01:04:58.100
disingenious on my
part to say that, but

01:04:58.100 --> 01:05:02.810
certainly what the plan
is is to get people,

01:05:02.810 --> 01:05:05.450
to take responsibility
for the things that are

01:05:05.450 --> 01:05:08.630
not going well for us
as, as police officers

01:05:08.660 --> 01:05:11.720
and as departments and
all these other things.

01:05:12.380 --> 01:05:16.760
And so teaching all
levels of leadership to

01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:19.100
stop looking around for
somebody to rescue them

01:05:19.220 --> 01:05:22.070
and to self rescue by
being extremely critical

01:05:22.070 --> 01:05:27.320
of their own actions and
also by seeking input

01:05:27.410 --> 01:05:29.930
and work cooperatively
with their people.

01:05:30.200 --> 01:05:32.360
So I support you, you
support me, not in a

01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:34.760
way that some media
has put, it puts a

01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:36.710
spin on it, where I
hide you, you hide me.

01:05:36.710 --> 01:05:38.750
We're talking about
ethical professional

01:05:39.170 --> 01:05:42.590
behaviors here, and how
are we going to problem

01:05:42.590 --> 01:05:44.990
solve certain things
in a prioritize and

01:05:44.990 --> 01:05:46.220
execute type fashion.

01:05:46.220 --> 01:05:48.860
We're having an issue
with media relationship.

01:05:49.070 --> 01:05:51.230
Who's fixing that
and how, and how

01:05:51.230 --> 01:05:52.970
can we enable it
and how can we help?

01:05:53.390 --> 01:05:55.700
We need to get the people
that are resistant to

01:05:55.700 --> 01:05:57.555
change to step off.

01:05:57.825 --> 01:06:00.225
And what's interesting
with resistant to change

01:06:00.255 --> 01:06:03.495
is maladjusted leaders,
as I call them, um,

01:06:03.795 --> 01:06:06.405
will, will often be
in charge of change.

01:06:07.395 --> 01:06:08.925
That is really
interesting.

01:06:09.075 --> 01:06:10.665
And one of the things
that I found out is

01:06:10.665 --> 01:06:13.185
at times, I think they
take that responsibility

01:06:13.185 --> 01:06:15.375
on to prevent it,
you know, and it's.

01:06:15.375 --> 01:06:16.665
I'd agree a
hundred percent.

01:06:16.695 --> 01:06:17.895
And it may be
conscious or it may

01:06:17.895 --> 01:06:19.665
be subconscious, but
it ends up happening

01:06:19.665 --> 01:06:20.415
anyway, I'm late.

01:06:20.805 --> 01:06:23.235
And my conversations
are, you are supposed

01:06:23.235 --> 01:06:25.275
to be spearheading a
movement to change here

01:06:25.305 --> 01:06:28.095
and introduce us to the,
you know, to the century

01:06:28.095 --> 01:06:32.265
that we're in and, um,
be proactive, but you

01:06:32.265 --> 01:06:34.905
are not, you're actually
disabling everything.

01:06:34.905 --> 01:06:37.515
So I need you to curb
the disabler and start

01:06:37.515 --> 01:06:38.295
looking, you know?

01:06:39.135 --> 01:06:41.415
Um, so anyways, so
yeah, so that's kind

01:06:41.415 --> 01:06:42.165
of what the idea is.

01:06:42.165 --> 01:06:43.125
You're absolutely
correct.

01:06:43.125 --> 01:06:45.585
And it impacts absolutely
every aspect of your,

01:06:45.585 --> 01:06:47.625
uh, of your ability
to police effectively.

01:06:48.485 --> 01:06:50.915
So responsibility and
taking responsibility

01:06:50.915 --> 01:06:53.135
for actions is not
something that the

01:06:53.135 --> 01:06:57.095
RCMP has a stellar
reputation for now.

01:06:57.095 --> 01:06:59.395
They might do it, but in
the public perception,

01:06:59.425 --> 01:07:03.815
the public eye, they
definitely are, are held

01:07:03.845 --> 01:07:09.245
in the same sort of,
um, vein as, uh, your

01:07:09.245 --> 01:07:10.505
example of Trudeau there.

01:07:11.345 --> 01:07:14.255
And I remember I
was doing a firearms

01:07:14.255 --> 01:07:16.295
instructors course with
the Vancouver police

01:07:16.325 --> 01:07:18.185
a number of years ago.

01:07:18.365 --> 01:07:21.875
And there was a VPD
officer during that

01:07:21.875 --> 01:07:25.379
time, who I believe he
shoved somebody on the

01:07:25.379 --> 01:07:26.399
streets, it was a woman.

01:07:26.399 --> 01:07:29.189
I think she might've been
disabled or there, there

01:07:29.189 --> 01:07:30.209
was some issue there.

01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:35.549
And within the period
of time from that

01:07:36.240 --> 01:07:38.910
incident happening, the
officer made a mistake.

01:07:38.910 --> 01:07:40.319
He thought he was
being approached by

01:07:40.319 --> 01:07:42.419
somebody with ill
intent, turned out this

01:07:42.419 --> 01:07:45.450
person was, um, MHA.

01:07:45.569 --> 01:07:50.040
And I think it was about
a three-day span between

01:07:50.040 --> 01:07:52.290
that incident happening
and the brass coming

01:07:52.290 --> 01:07:54.689
out and saying, yeah,
that officer screwed up.

01:07:55.049 --> 01:07:59.250
Uh, we are now putting
that officer on some

01:07:59.250 --> 01:08:01.049
retraining, pulled
them from the current

01:08:01.049 --> 01:08:03.149
division until they're
trained up and, uh,

01:08:03.149 --> 01:08:04.319
we'll report back after.

01:08:04.859 --> 01:08:06.779
And that just seemed
to me, and I looked

01:08:06.779 --> 01:08:09.149
at the, uh, the rest,
everyone else there

01:08:09.149 --> 01:08:10.850
was law enforcement
and I looked at how

01:08:10.859 --> 01:08:12.870
everyone else dealt
with it and like, yeah.

01:08:13.080 --> 01:08:14.520
Yep, makes sense,
sounds good.

01:08:14.520 --> 01:08:17.340
And that approach to
me, you get in front

01:08:17.340 --> 01:08:19.740
of the problem, you
take responsibility

01:08:19.740 --> 01:08:23.069
for it, even if it's
a situation where the

01:08:23.069 --> 01:08:25.019
officer may be, they
made the right decision

01:08:25.019 --> 01:08:26.760
based on everything,
but didn't have that one

01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:30.359
key piece of information
for the department

01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:31.920
of stand up and take
responsibility that

01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:34.859
sends a really strong
message and conversely

01:08:35.130 --> 01:08:37.590
watching multiple issues.

01:08:38.519 --> 01:08:41.969
One of which is, uh,
information up right

01:08:41.969 --> 01:08:45.510
over my right shoulder,
where the RCMP, um,

01:08:46.590 --> 01:08:48.420
would rather double down.

01:08:49.125 --> 01:08:54.165
Circle the wagons, so
to speak and not want

01:08:54.165 --> 01:08:56.054
to admit wrongdoing.

01:08:56.115 --> 01:08:57.675
And I always
wonder why that is.

01:08:57.675 --> 01:09:00.734
Is there, is there
the worry of opening

01:09:00.734 --> 01:09:01.934
Pandora's box?

01:09:02.175 --> 01:09:04.125
If I say, yeah, we
screwed up here that

01:09:04.154 --> 01:09:06.944
everything's going to
come flying or is it just

01:09:07.564 --> 01:09:08.694
arrogant protectionism.

01:09:08.745 --> 01:09:09.555
I don't know.

01:09:13.575 --> 01:09:16.095
Am I off base in that
sort of, because keep in

01:09:16.095 --> 01:09:18.885
mind, I was raised in a
municipal police force

01:09:18.885 --> 01:09:21.495
family, which had a very
different perspective

01:09:21.585 --> 01:09:23.715
of what a federal
policing looks like.

01:09:24.394 --> 01:09:26.705
It's also much, much
easier to turn a small,

01:09:27.064 --> 01:09:29.915
uh, speed boat around
than a aircraft carrier.

01:09:29.915 --> 01:09:30.184
Right.

01:09:30.274 --> 01:09:32.915
And so, but you're not,
no, you're not wrong

01:09:32.915 --> 01:09:35.524
in the sense that, um,
what I, what I could

01:09:35.524 --> 01:09:37.205
say, I guess, in what
I could speak to, and

01:09:37.205 --> 01:09:38.644
not that I'm being
limited in anything I

01:09:38.644 --> 01:09:40.564
say whatsoever, but I got
to speak to what I know.

01:09:40.564 --> 01:09:42.564
I can just start
making stuff up, uh,

01:09:42.564 --> 01:09:43.535
what I have seen.

01:09:43.535 --> 01:09:46.264
And what I do know
is that, that the

01:09:46.384 --> 01:09:50.224
RCMP's sort of
media, um, strategy.

01:09:50.285 --> 01:09:52.805
And this is not a knock
on doors that are working

01:09:52.805 --> 01:09:55.295
in a media strategies,
but, but the broad

01:09:55.295 --> 01:09:59.375
strategy, um, is vastly
underfunded for one.

01:09:59.405 --> 01:10:01.745
And also it's like,
there's, there's a

01:10:01.745 --> 01:10:03.724
S there's a certain
centralization of command

01:10:03.724 --> 01:10:04.955
there that needs to stop.

01:10:04.955 --> 01:10:06.184
It needs to be
decentralized.

01:10:06.184 --> 01:10:07.474
It needs to be
centered a region.

01:10:07.474 --> 01:10:09.305
And we need to have
some strong teams

01:10:09.305 --> 01:10:10.445
of strong leaders.

01:10:10.684 --> 01:10:12.785
We're talking about
people, you know, that

01:10:13.235 --> 01:10:15.934
that can take ownership
of things, that can dig

01:10:15.934 --> 01:10:18.394
into things and find
facts that can be given

01:10:18.394 --> 01:10:21.905
without say, jeopardizing
an investigation, or, um,

01:10:21.934 --> 01:10:24.755
making a statement that's
completely off base now

01:10:24.875 --> 01:10:26.525
from the perspective
of the members.

01:10:26.525 --> 01:10:29.594
There's no protective
attitude on the, on the

01:10:29.594 --> 01:10:31.485
part of the organization,
as far as our regular

01:10:31.485 --> 01:10:33.344
members are concerned,
because these guys

01:10:33.344 --> 01:10:35.415
feel like they're being
dragged into the mud

01:10:35.474 --> 01:10:38.235
incessantly, and nobody
is stepping up for them.

01:10:38.615 --> 01:10:41.315
So this, this, this
is a two-way street.

01:10:41.554 --> 01:10:43.804
They're actually  not
providing information,

01:10:43.894 --> 01:10:45.425
but they're also
not defending the

01:10:45.425 --> 01:10:46.474
members right?

01:10:46.655 --> 01:10:49.684
So now you have you
basically, it's on two

01:10:49.684 --> 01:10:51.634
fronts where it's a
failing on two fronts,

01:10:52.115 --> 01:10:53.165
like communicate.

01:10:53.224 --> 01:10:54.905
And, and one of the
things that I really,

01:10:54.905 --> 01:10:56.945
really don't like is
when you start taking

01:10:56.945 --> 01:10:59.855
listeners and, and, and
people in the public

01:10:59.945 --> 01:11:02.764
for idiots, like don't,
don't start taking

01:11:02.764 --> 01:11:03.665
people for idiots.

01:11:03.665 --> 01:11:07.025
Like if you actually give
them, uh, the totality

01:11:07.025 --> 01:11:09.054
of the circumstances,
or at the very least an

01:11:09.065 --> 01:11:11.405
exemplification of what
this might look like, or

01:11:11.405 --> 01:11:13.565
this might've occurred
here, or we don't know

01:11:13.565 --> 01:11:15.875
for sure all the details,
but we can tell you this.

01:11:15.875 --> 01:11:17.905
We've asked our officers
to go in a very tough

01:11:18.035 --> 01:11:21.125
situation, this occurred,
as soon as we know more,

01:11:21.125 --> 01:11:23.195
we'll give you more, but
we don't get, we don't

01:11:23.195 --> 01:11:24.905
even give them that
because we're afraid

01:11:24.905 --> 01:11:25.775
of making a mistake.

01:11:26.165 --> 01:11:28.415
If you make a mistake,
you own your mistake,

01:11:28.625 --> 01:11:30.665
you own your mistake
publicly, and you

01:11:30.665 --> 01:11:31.535
apologize for it.

01:11:31.535 --> 01:11:33.005
And those are the
mechanism that we're

01:11:33.005 --> 01:11:35.134
going to put in place
so that it does not

01:11:35.134 --> 01:11:38.195
repeat itself and
this is it, it's over.

01:11:38.255 --> 01:11:39.605
You don't lose
respect when you do

01:11:39.605 --> 01:11:40.325
that as a leader.

01:11:40.355 --> 01:11:42.335
But when you start hiding
being disingenious,

01:11:42.335 --> 01:11:44.285
this is where you
now establishing

01:11:44.285 --> 01:11:45.905
your character as
an organization.

01:11:46.205 --> 01:11:48.634
And the problem with
that is after that,

01:11:48.695 --> 01:11:51.514
everything you do is
always tinted with the

01:11:51.514 --> 01:11:54.245
possibility that you are
being disingenious right?

01:11:54.264 --> 01:11:54.535
Right.

01:11:54.875 --> 01:11:59.669
And so for me, um,
you know, I just, I

01:11:59.669 --> 01:12:03.780
would love to see a
much more open format,

01:12:03.809 --> 01:12:06.179
which respect to how we
communicate preemptively,

01:12:06.509 --> 01:12:08.639
whether it's with
operations or some of

01:12:08.639 --> 01:12:10.889
the work that we do,
or some of the really

01:12:10.889 --> 01:12:13.830
difficult situation that
our members are in and,

01:12:14.730 --> 01:12:17.160
you know, have take the
public for what they

01:12:17.160 --> 01:12:19.259
are, which is if you
give them a reasonable,

01:12:19.559 --> 01:12:21.450
uh, if you give them a
reasonable facts that you

01:12:21.450 --> 01:12:23.490
give them a reasonable,
they will come to a

01:12:23.490 --> 01:12:24.719
very similar conclusion.

01:12:24.990 --> 01:12:26.639
And yes, there's
always going to be

01:12:26.639 --> 01:12:29.429
the outliers that, you
know, the conspiracy

01:12:29.429 --> 01:12:31.620
theorist and, and, and
all these other things.

01:12:32.280 --> 01:12:34.740
I mean, conspiracy,
conspiracy, we can't

01:12:34.740 --> 01:12:37.440
get together on what
kind of colour pen

01:12:37.440 --> 01:12:38.219
we're going to purchase.

01:12:38.219 --> 01:12:40.259
So let alone broad
scope conspiracy.

01:12:40.429 --> 01:12:40.849
Yeah, yeah.

01:12:41.049 --> 01:12:45.200
This is just, this is
just unworkable, uh, in

01:12:45.200 --> 01:12:47.179
a government organization
as far as I'm concerned.

01:12:47.179 --> 01:12:51.349
But, um, but yeah, I
just, the lack of media

01:12:51.349 --> 01:12:55.309
strategy needs to be
addressed and it's

01:12:55.309 --> 01:12:59.089
not, uh, um, uh, sort
of, um, a follow up

01:12:59.089 --> 01:13:00.169
to whatever happens.

01:13:00.230 --> 01:13:01.460
It's preemptive.

01:13:01.490 --> 01:13:02.599
It's gotta be proactive.

01:13:02.629 --> 01:13:05.599
It's proactive and it's,
and it's after as well.

01:13:06.049 --> 01:13:06.679
Give you an example.

01:13:06.679 --> 01:13:08.269
Another example of
this, uh, you know,

01:13:08.269 --> 01:13:11.299
that has tragic, has
had tragic consequences.

01:13:11.299 --> 01:13:14.925
So Pierre Lemaitre was
the gentleman, excuse me,

01:13:14.985 --> 01:13:19.865
that um, that came out
and during the Surrey 6,

01:13:19.865 --> 01:13:22.745
sorry not the Surrey 60,
um, the jet-ski incidents

01:13:22.745 --> 01:13:23.974
at the Vancouver airport.

01:13:23.974 --> 01:13:24.245
Right.

01:13:24.514 --> 01:13:28.594
And he has made, uh,
you know, uh, first

01:13:28.594 --> 01:13:31.025
statement that had
some mistakes in it.

01:13:31.295 --> 01:13:34.775
And, and, and, uh,
it wasn't ill will or

01:13:34.775 --> 01:13:35.495
anything like that.

01:13:35.495 --> 01:13:39.275
It just was reported
in a way that con, you

01:13:39.275 --> 01:13:41.134
know, conveyed some
facts that weren't

01:13:41.134 --> 01:13:44.405
necessarily facts, at the
time uh, there was some

01:13:44.405 --> 01:13:45.155
missing pieces there.

01:13:45.155 --> 01:13:47.915
So what happened was
of course, Pierre wants

01:13:47.915 --> 01:13:50.195
to go back and wants
to correct his mistake

01:13:50.224 --> 01:13:52.415
and wants to go to the
public and say, look,

01:13:53.285 --> 01:13:55.655
I screwed up, I didn't
have all the facts here.

01:13:55.655 --> 01:13:58.115
And I thought I heard
this and, or I was told

01:13:58.115 --> 01:13:59.825
this, but it wasn't
verified, or whatever

01:13:59.825 --> 01:14:01.205
the case may be and
explained that to the

01:14:01.205 --> 01:14:04.985
public and let them
know what happened.

01:14:05.344 --> 01:14:08.915
And he was told category
clean, no, you are

01:14:08.915 --> 01:14:09.715
not going to do that.

01:14:11.195 --> 01:14:11.915
Took his life.

01:14:12.245 --> 01:14:12.575
Right.

01:14:12.695 --> 01:14:13.655
He took his own life.

01:14:13.865 --> 01:14:14.195
Right.

01:14:14.255 --> 01:14:14.615
Right.

01:14:14.764 --> 01:14:20.105
And, and, and, and we
just, we, we, we, we

01:14:20.134 --> 01:14:20.945
need to understand.

01:14:20.945 --> 01:14:23.255
And it's quite
interesting because when

01:14:23.255 --> 01:14:28.415
you set a culture of
ownership with yourself,

01:14:28.415 --> 01:14:30.545
as a leader, ownership
and accountability

01:14:30.545 --> 01:14:32.884
with yourself as a
leader, it starts,

01:14:33.335 --> 01:14:35.884
it starts bleeding
into your culture and

01:14:35.884 --> 01:14:36.875
all of your people.

01:14:37.205 --> 01:14:40.325
And it's really difficult
nowadays to go anywhere

01:14:40.325 --> 01:14:43.470
and to have somebody
say, This didn't work

01:14:43.470 --> 01:14:47.150
out because I did this
wrong, or I didn't work.

01:14:47.150 --> 01:14:48.450
When do you see that?

01:14:48.450 --> 01:14:49.500
Hardly ever.

01:14:49.500 --> 01:14:49.710
Right.

01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:52.200
But on units, like say
on the team I was on or

01:14:52.200 --> 01:14:53.400
whatever, we sat there.

01:14:53.490 --> 01:14:55.680
And that was a
constant people were

01:14:55.680 --> 01:14:58.290
fighting over, who was
responsible for what.

01:14:58.320 --> 01:15:00.330
As in trying to
take the blame.

01:15:01.050 --> 01:15:02.760
You weren't even
working that day.

01:15:03.269 --> 01:15:04.470
You had nothing
to do with it.

01:15:04.470 --> 01:15:06.180
You know, like it, it got
through the next day, it

01:15:06.180 --> 01:15:08.700
got to an extent where
everybody, the culture

01:15:08.700 --> 01:15:09.690
of ownership was there.

01:15:09.990 --> 01:15:13.110
Well, if you transpose
this on a broad

01:15:13.110 --> 01:15:15.390
spectrum, you are doing
it organizationally.

01:15:15.420 --> 01:15:17.519
You are now sent
sending this down

01:15:17.519 --> 01:15:18.750
the ranks as well.

01:15:19.080 --> 01:15:21.120
So there is like,
it's a Pandora's box.

01:15:21.120 --> 01:15:21.960
You're absolutely right.

01:15:22.019 --> 01:15:24.269
And that if we do it
correctly, it's going

01:15:24.269 --> 01:15:26.640
to have a trickle down
effect that will impact

01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:29.370
everybody's ability to
have that ownership.

01:15:30.060 --> 01:15:32.370
And I, when I say
everybody, we always know

01:15:32.370 --> 01:15:35.730
there's some that won't,
but the more you have

01:15:35.730 --> 01:15:38.940
the masses do the right
thing, the less popular

01:15:38.940 --> 01:15:41.850
it is to have somebody
not do the right thing.

01:15:41.850 --> 01:15:42.870
If that makes any sense.

01:15:42.920 --> 01:15:44.690
You know, that's a really
interesting way to look

01:15:44.690 --> 01:15:49.850
at it too, because with
them social license to

01:15:49.850 --> 01:15:53.000
operate, and it seems
like there's a misguided

01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:56.630
approach to ownership
of responsibility in

01:15:56.630 --> 01:15:57.680
society at the moment.

01:15:57.680 --> 01:16:00.200
And maybe that's because
they have not received

01:16:00.350 --> 01:16:02.480
a good example from
those who should be in

01:16:02.480 --> 01:16:05.269
a leadership position
when people are going

01:16:05.420 --> 01:16:07.820
and looking at events
that happened a hundred

01:16:07.820 --> 01:16:09.740
or more years ago and
saying, we've got to take

01:16:09.740 --> 01:16:10.850
ownership for this now.

01:16:13.605 --> 01:16:15.705
And that's gonna open
up a whole, whole

01:16:15.705 --> 01:16:20.144
other can of worms of
things, but the level of

01:16:20.144 --> 01:16:23.625
ownership that officials
are being asked to

01:16:23.655 --> 01:16:25.424
take upon themselves,
sometimes they're things

01:16:25.424 --> 01:16:26.985
that had absolutely
nothing to do with

01:16:26.985 --> 01:16:31.875
them, I think is rather
unreasonable by sometimes

01:16:31.875 --> 01:16:33.134
the vocal majority.

01:16:33.764 --> 01:16:37.125
Having a police force,
having a government in

01:16:37.125 --> 01:16:39.844
power that will take
responsibility and, and

01:16:39.855 --> 01:16:41.804
encourage the federal
police force to do

01:16:41.804 --> 01:16:45.105
the same thing and set
the parameters or the

01:16:45.105 --> 01:16:48.315
framework for what is
right and what is wrong

01:16:48.315 --> 01:16:50.775
and what is acceptable
or not will probably have

01:16:51.344 --> 01:16:55.275
a very massive effect
in the populace who is

01:16:55.275 --> 01:16:56.775
looking at it and saying,
Hey, it's not right.

01:16:56.804 --> 01:16:57.855
I don't know
what is right.

01:16:57.855 --> 01:17:00.525
But my personal feeling
is, and, and running

01:17:00.525 --> 01:17:02.894
off on all of these
strange tangents,

01:17:04.634 --> 01:17:06.155
I couldn't agree more.

01:17:06.254 --> 01:17:09.455
I, and I, you know, we'll
try to qualify this as

01:17:09.455 --> 01:17:12.334
much as I can and try
to avoid, uh, you know,

01:17:12.334 --> 01:17:17.405
a nuclear explosion,
but here's what my

01:17:17.405 --> 01:17:18.455
thoughts are on that.

01:17:20.525 --> 01:17:22.025
You're talking about
events that occurred, you

01:17:22.025 --> 01:17:23.674
know, hundreds of years
ago, you were talking

01:17:23.674 --> 01:17:26.855
about events that were
say at the time church

01:17:26.855 --> 01:17:32.195
led supported by the
current government and

01:17:32.195 --> 01:17:33.575
forced by the RCMP.

01:17:34.650 --> 01:17:36.090
Supported by the
public that puts

01:17:36.090 --> 01:17:36.960
people into power.

01:17:36.990 --> 01:17:37.290
Right.

01:17:37.440 --> 01:17:37.740
Right.

01:17:38.250 --> 01:17:41.220
So everybody along
the way had a play

01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:42.929
in the horrible
things that occurred.

01:17:43.080 --> 01:17:43.349
Sure.

01:17:45.260 --> 01:17:47.910
There isn't one group
in that, including the

01:17:47.910 --> 01:17:50.519
public that can turn
around and look at

01:17:50.550 --> 01:17:52.920
anybody else and say
you are responsible

01:17:52.920 --> 01:17:55.410
for that because the
person of today is as

01:17:55.410 --> 01:17:57.750
responsible for those
events as you are.

01:17:58.110 --> 01:17:58.559
Right.

01:18:00.120 --> 01:18:01.650
Because you elected.

01:18:02.040 --> 01:18:04.170
If we're going to go
down that rabbit hole,

01:18:04.380 --> 01:18:06.660
you elected the people
in power at the time.

01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:09.660
So therefore you
today are responsible

01:18:09.660 --> 01:18:10.349
for what happened.

01:18:11.160 --> 01:18:12.490
But people don't want
to kind of like that

01:18:12.559 --> 01:18:14.710
because it's a process of
shifting responsibility.

01:18:14.710 --> 01:18:15.010
It's.

01:18:15.070 --> 01:18:15.550
Again.

01:18:15.580 --> 01:18:16.639
That fault, not my fault.

01:18:16.660 --> 01:18:18.160
Again, it's deflection.

01:18:18.519 --> 01:18:18.849
Right.

01:18:18.940 --> 01:18:21.130
And deflection is just
everywhere, but it's

01:18:21.130 --> 01:18:22.599
li it leads us nowhere.

01:18:22.840 --> 01:18:24.220
It leads us to
further divide.

01:18:24.220 --> 01:18:25.599
Like we need to
understand that we

01:18:25.599 --> 01:18:30.340
need 100% try to find
collective ways to make.

01:18:30.519 --> 01:18:32.019
We'll never change
what happened.

01:18:32.410 --> 01:18:33.970
It is absolutely
horrible.

01:18:34.630 --> 01:18:36.820
You know, I don't even
want to go down that.

01:18:36.849 --> 01:18:39.610
I mean, I think we all
understand how,  how,

01:18:39.970 --> 01:18:42.910
how absolutely horrible
those situations were.

01:18:43.750 --> 01:18:48.460
And what are we doing
today to ensure that

01:18:48.460 --> 01:18:51.820
this is never, ever,
ever, ever repeated.

01:18:52.240 --> 01:18:54.460
That there is no
bleeding, you know, of,

01:18:54.460 --> 01:18:57.490
of the same culture,
continuing to proliferate

01:18:57.550 --> 01:18:58.420
all these other things.

01:18:58.420 --> 01:19:00.280
And I can, I will
take ownership

01:19:00.280 --> 01:19:01.360
of this all day.

01:19:02.985 --> 01:19:04.405
But we need to
understand, it

01:19:04.424 --> 01:19:06.195
was a very, very
different time.

01:19:06.915 --> 01:19:08.745
All the people involved
for the majority,

01:19:08.775 --> 01:19:11.565
like 99% of them
are dead, there's

01:19:11.565 --> 01:19:12.644
no question there.

01:19:13.275 --> 01:19:15.224
Um, especially those
in positions of power,

01:19:15.224 --> 01:19:16.304
because it would have
been already in their

01:19:16.304 --> 01:19:17.264
thirties or forties.

01:19:17.955 --> 01:19:21.165
And so now it's how
do we move forward?

01:19:22.065 --> 01:19:24.075
And what are we doing
now to make things.

01:19:25.474 --> 01:19:27.934
You know, what one
other tangent here

01:19:27.934 --> 01:19:28.804
and you brought it up.

01:19:28.804 --> 01:19:30.665
And I just figured it's
just been sitting in

01:19:30.665 --> 01:19:31.049
the back of my head.

01:19:31.049 --> 01:19:31.759
Oh hell, go ahead.

01:19:31.775 --> 01:19:32.344
Here we go.

01:19:33.394 --> 01:19:34.165
I'm just warming up.

01:19:34.165 --> 01:19:34.835
Yes.

01:19:35.095 --> 01:19:35.685
COVID.

01:19:36.075 --> 01:19:36.225
Yeah.

01:19:36.815 --> 01:19:38.554
That's not a
contentious topic.

01:19:38.615 --> 01:19:39.964
Probably a little
less contentious of

01:19:39.964 --> 01:19:41.315
what we're talking
about at the moment.

01:19:41.764 --> 01:19:46.625
Um, so friend of mine,
longtime friend, um, went

01:19:46.625 --> 01:19:49.474
to high school with him,
gives me a phone call,

01:19:49.764 --> 01:19:53.255
says Travis, I've been
tasked with taking a look

01:19:53.255 --> 01:19:59.255
at how we can increase,
um, vaccination rates in

01:19:59.315 --> 01:20:01.804
the Northern areas of the
province among hunters.

01:20:01.804 --> 01:20:04.535
And he's, he works for
the provincial government

01:20:04.535 --> 01:20:06.304
and he's a director and
he's got a lot of people

01:20:06.304 --> 01:20:09.545
working under him and
they're looking, what,

01:20:09.545 --> 01:20:12.665
why aren't we having a,
an adoption rate like

01:20:12.665 --> 01:20:14.705
we'd like to see up
there of the vaccination?

01:20:15.184 --> 01:20:18.505
I said, well, I can give
you my perspective and it

01:20:18.514 --> 01:20:20.735
may or may not be shared
by these other people.

01:20:20.735 --> 01:20:22.775
But I think a biggest
part of all of this

01:20:22.775 --> 01:20:24.815
puzzle is, is how
that information

01:20:24.815 --> 01:20:25.655
is communicated.

01:20:26.285 --> 01:20:29.115
And just what you were
saying earlier about

01:20:29.115 --> 01:20:32.550
not taking people's
intelligence for granted.

01:20:33.120 --> 01:20:34.470
You know, there was
an article I read, I

01:20:34.470 --> 01:20:36.990
believe it was Jeff
Bezos and whoever the

01:20:36.990 --> 01:20:39.540
new, I think it was
Tim Cook, a few of them

01:20:39.540 --> 01:20:42.390
talking about creating
cultures of success.

01:20:42.450 --> 01:20:45.510
And they said,
unequivocally time and

01:20:45.510 --> 01:20:49.260
time again, they find
that when the have a

01:20:49.290 --> 01:20:51.870
group of individuals
who are highly driven

01:20:52.410 --> 01:20:54.450
and they bring somebody
from the outside in to

01:20:54.450 --> 01:20:57.990
join that group, that
person might not be

01:20:57.990 --> 01:20:59.910
the most highly driven
person, but they will

01:20:59.910 --> 01:21:02.610
match that drive that the
rest of the group has.

01:21:03.270 --> 01:21:05.430
Likewise, if they have
a group of people who

01:21:05.910 --> 01:21:07.560
are rather lazy and
they bring a highly

01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:09.630
driven person and it
doesn't take long for

01:21:09.630 --> 01:21:12.540
that person to kind
of meet that norm.

01:21:13.230 --> 01:21:17.490
People will sort of
leveled to the, to

01:21:17.490 --> 01:21:19.080
their environment to
kind of want to fit in.

01:21:19.530 --> 01:21:22.020
So when we talk about
not underestimating

01:21:22.020 --> 01:21:23.910
individual's intelligence
or the masses

01:21:23.910 --> 01:21:25.980
intelligence, why don't
we just anticipate

01:21:27.150 --> 01:21:29.130
that people have some
intelligence and they

01:21:29.130 --> 01:21:30.900
can make a decision
if we present them

01:21:30.900 --> 01:21:31.620
with that information?

01:21:31.620 --> 01:21:34.230
So I, I took them through
point by point some of

01:21:34.230 --> 01:21:35.430
where my concerns were.

01:21:35.670 --> 01:21:37.740
I mean, nobody wants
to feel forced into

01:21:37.740 --> 01:21:38.430
doing something.

01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:40.530
Nobody wants to be
coerced if you give

01:21:40.530 --> 01:21:42.090
them the information and
it makes sense they'll

01:21:42.090 --> 01:21:45.810
probably readily jump
at it and went through

01:21:45.870 --> 01:21:50.430
a plan that I figured,
the whole thing,

01:21:50.430 --> 01:21:53.820
essentially just re
revolved around honesty

01:21:53.820 --> 01:21:55.620
in how information
is being provided.

01:21:56.325 --> 01:21:57.915
And we'll see.

01:21:58.005 --> 01:22:00.825
,He's he took notes,
he said, well, I, I

01:22:00.825 --> 01:22:03.525
doubt I have my doubts
and, and how all of

01:22:03.525 --> 01:22:04.455
that will go across.

01:22:04.455 --> 01:22:08.175
But I'm just a bit
of an interesting

01:22:10.015 --> 01:22:14.655
aside talking about
responsibility and media.

01:22:14.715 --> 01:22:17.295
Responsibility in
leadership, because he's

01:22:17.295 --> 01:22:18.315
in a leadership role.

01:22:18.675 --> 01:22:20.505
Why, why provide
information that's

01:22:20.505 --> 01:22:23.565
partially true or true in
one respect, but doesn't

01:22:23.565 --> 01:22:26.175
take into other things,
provided all there

01:22:26.205 --> 01:22:27.345
for people to look at.

01:22:27.825 --> 01:22:30.885
Like if, if the end
goal of vaccination

01:22:30.915 --> 01:22:33.015
revolves around the
fact that our country

01:22:33.015 --> 01:22:36.165
is publicly funded in
our health care, and

01:22:36.165 --> 01:22:42.435
we lack ICU beds for,
to deal with a pandemic

01:22:42.435 --> 01:22:44.685
on top of everything
else, then say that.

01:22:45.255 --> 01:22:47.295
Maybe people will step
up and say, well, you

01:22:47.295 --> 01:22:49.065
know, whether I believe
in COVID or not, where

01:22:49.065 --> 01:22:50.955
they believe we'll
get this or not, I

01:22:50.955 --> 01:22:53.295
do know that people
get in car accidents,

01:22:53.535 --> 01:22:54.315
people get hurt.

01:22:54.435 --> 01:22:57.405
And maybe if this will
lessen my effects of,

01:22:57.455 --> 01:22:59.685
of, if I do get COVID
it'll lessen the strain

01:22:59.685 --> 01:23:02.445
on ICU, then put that
out there for people.

01:23:03.735 --> 01:23:04.065
I don't know.

01:23:04.275 --> 01:23:05.054
Yeah, absolutely.

01:23:05.075 --> 01:23:07.655
I mean, where you were
referring to earlier, I

01:23:07.655 --> 01:23:09.395
thought that was worth
mentioning is called

01:23:09.395 --> 01:23:13.235
synergical, basically
um, what's the word?

01:23:13.965 --> 01:23:16.325
You know, what a con the
concept of synergy is,

01:23:16.385 --> 01:23:18.035
essentially you bring
two people together.

01:23:18.075 --> 01:23:21.785
If you have one person
dig a trench, how long

01:23:21.785 --> 01:23:22.895
has it taken that person?

01:23:23.345 --> 01:23:26.085
And if you bring another
person and they work

01:23:26.085 --> 01:23:27.844
well together, how
much has it taken took

01:23:27.844 --> 01:23:31.214
people, well, logic
would say half the time.

01:23:31.605 --> 01:23:33.344
But the reality is it
could be as much as three

01:23:33.344 --> 01:23:34.565
times as fast, right?

01:23:34.575 --> 01:23:36.075
Inversely, you
can take that one

01:23:36.075 --> 01:23:37.655
person that takes a
year to dig a hole.

01:23:37.695 --> 01:23:40.155
You bring another person,
the wrong person, and

01:23:40.155 --> 01:23:42.974
now you're dealing with
triple the time that

01:23:42.974 --> 01:23:44.474
it would have taken
one person to do it

01:23:44.474 --> 01:23:46.605
because you've negatively
impacted the masses.

01:23:46.964 --> 01:23:48.764
But what you do, what
you are speaking of

01:23:48.764 --> 01:23:50.745
is you already have
an established synergy

01:23:50.745 --> 01:23:51.974
one way or another.

01:23:52.245 --> 01:23:54.434
Now you're bringing
one person that gets

01:23:55.485 --> 01:23:57.554
sucked in essentially
with the culture that's

01:23:57.554 --> 01:23:58.485
already established.

01:23:58.514 --> 01:23:58.785
Right.

01:23:59.144 --> 01:24:01.844
It's very, very
powerful and it works.

01:24:01.934 --> 01:24:03.075
And that's why you
want to have that

01:24:03.075 --> 01:24:05.535
positive synergy in
your workplace so that

01:24:05.714 --> 01:24:09.165
your people are actually
a force multiplier.

01:24:09.344 --> 01:24:09.615
Right.

01:24:09.794 --> 01:24:12.165
And they can do a lot
more with a lot less in

01:24:12.174 --> 01:24:13.155
a lot more effectively.

01:24:14.174 --> 01:24:15.794
Um, yeah.

01:24:16.634 --> 01:24:18.644
And, um, where
was I going with

01:24:18.644 --> 01:24:19.144
this again now?

01:24:19.174 --> 01:24:19.994
Well I guess the

01:24:20.014 --> 01:24:21.815
reason I kind of
segwayed into that,

01:24:21.815 --> 01:24:23.644
cause it was brought
up about COVID and it's

01:24:23.644 --> 01:24:25.684
interesting about how
media is putting it out

01:24:25.684 --> 01:24:27.394
on how the governments
choosing to communicate,

01:24:27.974 --> 01:24:28.775
brought all that up.

01:24:28.775 --> 01:24:32.735
But the one overriding
thing that I saw

01:24:32.764 --> 01:24:34.655
out of this whole
COVID experience

01:24:34.955 --> 01:24:37.054
that was concerning
more than the lack of

01:24:37.054 --> 01:24:38.165
toilet paper, right?

01:24:38.165 --> 01:24:40.054
More than all of these
goofy little things that

01:24:40.054 --> 01:24:43.745
are going on, was the
general group think.

01:24:44.165 --> 01:24:46.985
Like that was scary
and that is scary.

01:24:47.044 --> 01:24:48.575
And when you take
a look at how group

01:24:48.605 --> 01:24:52.575
think is affecting
um, how we operate on

01:24:52.575 --> 01:24:53.714
a day-to-day basis.

01:24:53.714 --> 01:24:57.285
And I think that bleeds
back over into, uh,

01:24:57.375 --> 01:24:59.625
organizations like the
RCMP and what that group

01:24:59.655 --> 01:25:02.924
think looks like and how
people can break out of

01:25:03.315 --> 01:25:07.365
just the, um, the echo
chamber, so to speak.

01:25:07.785 --> 01:25:11.594
And it is something
where they can replicate

01:25:11.594 --> 01:25:13.905
that Stanford, I think
it was you were saying,

01:25:13.905 --> 01:25:15.674
the experiment where
you, where you have more

01:25:15.674 --> 01:25:17.384
diversity in thought
to be able to come,

01:25:17.415 --> 01:25:19.394
come to a solution,
but that, that the

01:25:19.394 --> 01:25:21.254
general group think
that I'm seeing right

01:25:21.254 --> 01:25:24.855
now, uh, is something
in if we're talking

01:25:24.855 --> 01:25:27.405
about it and let's say
a policing, uh, context

01:25:27.705 --> 01:25:29.415
is definitely something
that can use some work.

01:25:29.445 --> 01:25:31.155
There's a lot of
positive in the group,

01:25:31.214 --> 01:25:33.254
the group thing, but
there are areas within

01:25:33.254 --> 01:25:35.474
the leadership and
in management that,

01:25:35.474 --> 01:25:39.165
um, would need to be
positively effected

01:25:39.165 --> 01:25:41.205
in order for ownership
to be taken on, on

01:25:41.684 --> 01:25:42.375
different tasks.

01:25:42.794 --> 01:25:45.674
And I, and I got
to wonder how

01:25:45.674 --> 01:25:46.605
would you do that?

01:25:47.684 --> 01:25:48.014
Yeah.

01:25:48.014 --> 01:25:50.344
So what, it's,
it's a big, big

01:25:50.344 --> 01:25:51.245
undertaking, right?

01:25:51.605 --> 01:25:56.014
So for me, one of the,
excuse me, not sure

01:25:56.014 --> 01:25:57.905
what's in there, cat
maybe or something.

01:25:58.684 --> 01:26:01.655
Um, it, for me, one of
the, one of the areas of

01:26:01.655 --> 01:26:04.684
focus has been changing
the culture from the

01:26:04.684 --> 01:26:06.304
inside out, right.

01:26:06.334 --> 01:26:08.165
Because here's what
the issue is when,

01:26:08.224 --> 01:26:10.054
even when we're having
a conversation about

01:26:10.054 --> 01:26:13.379
management and leaders,
all these people along

01:26:13.379 --> 01:26:15.960
the way, all the way
that however, a high

01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:18.299
of a rank you want it
to be, are thinking

01:26:18.299 --> 01:26:19.290
of their leaders.

01:26:19.830 --> 01:26:20.129
Right?

01:26:20.519 --> 01:26:22.650
So now what we have done
is we've essentially

01:26:22.650 --> 01:26:25.200
taken 80% of the
workforce and took

01:26:25.200 --> 01:26:27.740
them out of the problem
solving equation.

01:26:28.580 --> 01:26:32.450
We didn't do it, but they
did it because that's

01:26:32.450 --> 01:26:33.650
what happens right?

01:26:34.219 --> 01:26:36.559
And so for me, when
I hear, you know,

01:26:36.559 --> 01:26:38.750
management this and
management that, the

01:26:38.750 --> 01:26:40.339
question is always,
what are you doing?

01:26:40.700 --> 01:26:43.400
What have you done today
to make things better

01:26:43.400 --> 01:26:44.299
for the organization?

01:26:44.509 --> 01:26:46.280
What have you done
today to make things

01:26:46.280 --> 01:26:47.210
better for your peers?

01:26:47.480 --> 01:26:50.419
What have you done today
for whatever X, Y, and Z?

01:26:51.049 --> 01:26:51.379
Okay.

01:26:51.559 --> 01:26:54.080
And if the answer is
nothing, zip it and get

01:26:54.080 --> 01:26:56.540
something done, I don't
want to, you know, I

01:26:56.540 --> 01:26:57.200
don't want to hear it.

01:26:57.200 --> 01:26:58.219
I don't want to
hear deflection.

01:26:58.250 --> 01:26:59.440
I don't want to
hear who can do

01:27:00.019 --> 01:27:01.160
this for you or not.

01:27:01.639 --> 01:27:03.530
We'll take, take some
actions, make some

01:27:03.530 --> 01:27:05.570
calls and, and help
someone do something.

01:27:06.889 --> 01:27:11.059
And so, um, I just, I
just think that again,

01:27:11.120 --> 01:27:14.330
the more unpopular we
make it to be a certain

01:27:14.330 --> 01:27:17.450
way, the easier it will
be to affect a change.

01:27:18.500 --> 01:27:20.960
So we need to have
the masses pulling

01:27:20.960 --> 01:27:23.599
in the same direction
and that's going to

01:27:23.599 --> 01:27:25.849
be, that's going to be
putting some pressure.

01:27:26.450 --> 01:27:26.750
Right.

01:27:26.809 --> 01:27:28.460
And, and, and, and also.

01:27:29.490 --> 01:27:31.320
People are starting
to leave the ranks

01:27:31.320 --> 01:27:33.780
because they're retiring
or they're, they're

01:27:34.050 --> 01:27:35.820
leaving the outfit or
whatever the case may be.

01:27:35.820 --> 01:27:38.460
You're going to now
replace with a generation

01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:41.040
that's been going
through, those changes.

01:27:41.580 --> 01:27:44.160
And, uh, and, and,
and now are part of a

01:27:44.160 --> 01:27:46.170
certain culture which
changes the culture of

01:27:46.170 --> 01:27:47.520
the leadership, right?

01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:49.980
So, so you, and I say
that to the people all

01:27:49.980 --> 01:27:53.100
the time is, you are the
next wave of leaders.

01:27:53.310 --> 01:27:55.350
Hence why it's so
important for us to,

01:27:55.800 --> 01:27:57.630
and I mean, let's call a
spade, a spade, a police

01:27:57.630 --> 01:28:01.740
officer that is sworn in
and receives a badge is

01:28:02.010 --> 01:28:03.240
expected to be a leader.

01:28:03.300 --> 01:28:03.870
Absolutely.

01:28:03.900 --> 01:28:04.860
Constable or not.

01:28:04.860 --> 01:28:06.510
They will be on critical
incidents scenes.

01:28:06.510 --> 01:28:07.860
They will be dealing
with accidents.

01:28:07.860 --> 01:28:09.510
They will be dealing
with problem solving.

01:28:09.960 --> 01:28:11.490
They will be, they
will take the lead on

01:28:11.700 --> 01:28:12.480
all of those things.

01:28:12.480 --> 01:28:13.700
So to say, well,
you know what?

01:28:13.700 --> 01:28:14.880
I'm not interesting
in leadership.

01:28:14.910 --> 01:28:18.270
Well, that's for somebody
that isn't in policing.

01:28:18.890 --> 01:28:19.120
Period.

01:28:19.120 --> 01:28:19.690
Oh absolutely.

01:28:19.710 --> 01:28:21.180
Once you become a
police officer, you've

01:28:21.180 --> 01:28:23.370
abdicated the right
to not be a leader.

01:28:23.730 --> 01:28:25.080
And that's not to say
that, you know, you

01:28:25.080 --> 01:28:27.240
can't also follow cause
that's a critical quality

01:28:27.240 --> 01:28:28.850
of a leader having
the ability to follow.

01:28:29.220 --> 01:28:29.410
Yeah.

01:28:29.410 --> 01:28:29.570
As well.

01:28:29.570 --> 01:28:30.800
You need to be a
good follower to

01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:31.400
be a good leader?

01:28:31.400 --> 01:28:32.840
And I think most
leaders who are in

01:28:32.840 --> 01:28:35.180
that position who have
received that training.

01:28:35.600 --> 01:28:37.940
I remember at 12 years
old, I was one of the

01:28:37.940 --> 01:28:38.930
things I had to memorize.

01:28:38.930 --> 01:28:40.550
Leadership's the art
of influencing human

01:28:40.550 --> 01:28:45.000
behavior in a manner,
uh oh, did I forget it?

01:28:45.120 --> 01:28:47.250
Influencing human
behavior to accomplish

01:28:47.250 --> 01:28:49.020
a mission in a manner so
desired by the leader.

01:28:49.020 --> 01:28:50.480
A common goal, love it.

01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:52.460
Best, best description
of leadership.

01:28:52.730 --> 01:28:54.170
And if you look at
the L do you know

01:28:54.170 --> 01:28:55.400
the description
of management?

01:28:55.490 --> 01:28:56.750
It's a science,
not an art.

01:28:56.960 --> 01:28:59.000
And what is it
normally assigned to?

01:29:00.020 --> 01:29:00.650
Assets.

01:29:00.860 --> 01:29:01.220
Right.

01:29:01.220 --> 01:29:01.820
Things.

01:29:01.850 --> 01:29:02.270
Right.

01:29:02.420 --> 01:29:02.780
Right.

01:29:03.020 --> 01:29:06.380
So I, I often hear that,
uh, very impressed with

01:29:06.380 --> 01:29:08.000
you remembering that
by heart, by the way.

01:29:08.450 --> 01:29:12.020
Um, but, um, but, uh,
yeah, you know, and

01:29:12.020 --> 01:29:13.790
so now you have your
manager, your manager

01:29:13.790 --> 01:29:16.970
versus leader kind
of, uh, conversation.

01:29:17.330 --> 01:29:20.030
And of course you have
the people that we

01:29:20.030 --> 01:29:22.550
know that manager meant
managerial tasks or a

01:29:22.550 --> 01:29:24.140
part of leadership, or
the other way around,

01:29:24.170 --> 01:29:25.100
isn't always the case.

01:29:25.580 --> 01:29:28.250
So ultimately what
you, what we should be

01:29:28.250 --> 01:29:30.560
striving for is having
those inspirational

01:29:30.560 --> 01:29:34.070
leaders, the ones that
people want to be like.

01:29:34.130 --> 01:29:34.640
Yes.

01:29:34.760 --> 01:29:38.240
Not, not like the buy,
but be like, emulate,

01:29:38.360 --> 01:29:42.080
emulate, and, and,
and, and, and, and, you

01:29:42.080 --> 01:29:45.830
know, once you start,
once you start having

01:29:45.830 --> 01:29:47.870
those types of leaders
and organizations, like

01:29:47.900 --> 01:29:52.110
leaders are pumped out,
you know, quickly, it's.

01:29:52.110 --> 01:29:52.360
Yes.

01:29:52.360 --> 01:29:54.710
It's so interesting
because people will go

01:29:54.740 --> 01:29:58.080
out and do the things
that that leader has

01:29:58.080 --> 01:30:01.650
done to be where they
are or to be, or to have

01:30:01.650 --> 01:30:03.690
the perspective that
the perspective that

01:30:03.690 --> 01:30:04.590
they have or all these.

01:30:04.690 --> 01:30:06.930
And we see it now with
all kinds of podcasts

01:30:06.930 --> 01:30:08.340
that are out there as,
you know, you have the

01:30:08.340 --> 01:30:12.770
Jocko, willing Cindy and
the, uh, you know, it's,

01:30:12.770 --> 01:30:16.290
it's very interesting
how, uh, if, if Jocko

01:30:16.290 --> 01:30:18.480
says something, all of
a sudden you have all

01:30:18.480 --> 01:30:21.300
these leaders everywhere
going, okay, I should

01:30:21.300 --> 01:30:22.290
probably be doing this.

01:30:22.290 --> 01:30:24.930
I dropped the ball on
this, and now it's crazy.

01:30:25.050 --> 01:30:26.540
We're in an age of
information where there's

01:30:26.540 --> 01:30:30.000
zero, excuse not to
be up to par with the

01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:31.390
information out there.

01:30:32.220 --> 01:30:33.060
It's fantastic.

01:30:33.080 --> 01:30:34.370
There's so much
information.

01:30:34.610 --> 01:30:38.810
So as you're talking,
I, I made, uh, three

01:30:38.840 --> 01:30:39.680
separate notes.

01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:39.950
Yeah.

01:30:40.220 --> 01:30:41.870
Because I think it would
be a value to people

01:30:41.870 --> 01:30:44.660
who are listening at the
beginning, you're talking

01:30:44.660 --> 01:30:47.030
about front-loading
on your day,

01:30:47.060 --> 01:30:50.270
listening to positive
affirmations, listening

01:30:50.270 --> 01:30:52.160
to positive people,
talking about things.

01:30:52.970 --> 01:30:56.560
What is on your
playlist for that?

01:30:56.970 --> 01:30:58.410
Who do, who do you
tend to listen to?

01:30:59.030 --> 01:31:01.040
Well it depends what,
what kind of persuit

01:31:01.130 --> 01:31:02.330
I'm I'm after, right.

01:31:02.330 --> 01:31:04.550
If I'm listening to,
if I'm listening to a

01:31:04.550 --> 01:31:06.710
straight up leadership
podcast generally is

01:31:06.740 --> 01:31:09.140
going to be Jocko and
it's, and the reason

01:31:09.140 --> 01:31:11.090
why I really like Jocko
notes just for Jocko.

01:31:11.090 --> 01:31:12.500
Cause I relate to him,
he's a black belt in

01:31:12.500 --> 01:31:14.750
JiuJitsu so am I, we have
all these other things,

01:31:15.140 --> 01:31:17.690
but what I do like is
that David Burke and

01:31:17.690 --> 01:31:19.460
all these other people
that he has on there

01:31:19.460 --> 01:31:22.690
that are absolutely
incredible humans and

01:31:22.700 --> 01:31:25.730
have wealth of knowledge
and of the Vietnam vets

01:31:25.730 --> 01:31:27.920
and the SOG guys and
all these things, right.

01:31:28.820 --> 01:31:32.360
And, um, and I really in,
and there will be reading

01:31:32.360 --> 01:31:34.309
off the, you know, the
Marine Corps leadership

01:31:34.340 --> 01:31:36.620
groups was of course
350 years of combined

01:31:36.620 --> 01:31:38.390
leadership experience
in the Marine Corps.

01:31:38.420 --> 01:31:41.809
I mean just incredible
leaders coming out

01:31:41.809 --> 01:31:43.280
of the Marine Corps
as, as we know.

01:31:43.790 --> 01:31:47.450
But, um, but I, this
will be for that pursuit.

01:31:47.510 --> 01:31:50.809
Now, if I'm, if I'm,
um, in a mood for say

01:31:50.809 --> 01:31:52.970
intellectual pursuit,
I'll be listening to the

01:31:53.120 --> 01:31:56.450
Jordy, Jordan Peterson
or the Lex Freeman, or I

01:31:56.450 --> 01:31:59.660
will be listening to, um,
who else am I listening

01:31:59.660 --> 01:32:00.440
to on the daily?

01:32:00.860 --> 01:32:03.800
Um, even, uh, what,
what's his name?

01:32:03.980 --> 01:32:06.680
Weinstein or Bert
Weinstein or, and

01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:09.650
then there's, um, Sam
Harris, even I will.

01:32:09.650 --> 01:32:12.800
You know, like I, I
just, and again, you

01:32:12.800 --> 01:32:14.240
know, there's some
contentions around

01:32:14.240 --> 01:32:16.500
Jordy P and listen,
like when I listen.

01:32:16.500 --> 01:32:17.840
That's a sharp,
sharp dude.

01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:19.530
He is and when I
listen, when I listen

01:32:19.580 --> 01:32:22.770
to, when I listen to
people like this, I

01:32:22.770 --> 01:32:24.870
don't listen to gospel.

01:32:24.870 --> 01:32:27.750
Like I'm not, you know,
drinking everything.

01:32:27.810 --> 01:32:27.990
Right.

01:32:28.140 --> 01:32:30.850
I take what I hear and
I process it in what

01:32:30.870 --> 01:32:34.470
and, and, and I try to
affect my own mindset,

01:32:34.470 --> 01:32:37.680
my own, uh, intellectual
sort of, you know,

01:32:38.970 --> 01:32:41.370
sort of override my
own bias to try to see

01:32:41.370 --> 01:32:42.600
other, other angles.

01:32:42.780 --> 01:32:44.460
But at the end of the
day, I may look at Jordan

01:32:44.490 --> 01:32:46.800
P and say, I totally
agree with 99% of what

01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:49.050
you said today, but that
1% I can't get behind.

01:32:49.530 --> 01:32:51.780
Well, 99% of the
stuff he says, isn't

01:32:53.100 --> 01:32:54.660
absolutely concrete.

01:32:54.690 --> 01:32:55.290
It's not.

01:32:55.670 --> 01:32:57.320
Most of it is quite open.

01:32:57.350 --> 01:32:57.770
It is.

01:32:57.800 --> 01:32:59.720
And that's the beauty of
it that some people will

01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:01.730
look at it and take it as
concrete and they'll get

01:33:01.730 --> 01:33:03.770
right up in arms about
it when he's just making

01:33:03.770 --> 01:33:04.820
a general question.

01:33:04.850 --> 01:33:06.170
Most of it is questions.

01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:07.400
Um, yeah.

01:33:07.430 --> 01:33:07.910
Interesting.

01:33:07.970 --> 01:33:11.240
But he's, you know, he's,
he's got one of the worse

01:33:11.570 --> 01:33:14.420
personality traits you
can have, and that is

01:33:14.540 --> 01:33:16.860
honest and genuine right.

01:33:16.860 --> 01:33:17.000
Right.

01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:19.760
And he's just honest
and it is a very

01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:21.200
unpopular time to be.

01:33:21.890 --> 01:33:22.970
It just, it just is.

01:33:23.330 --> 01:33:26.240
But I think the more of
us stand up and actually

01:33:26.240 --> 01:33:27.590
have the stones to do it.

01:33:28.250 --> 01:33:30.410
Um, you know, we
need, we need more

01:33:30.410 --> 01:33:30.910
and more of that.

01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:33.320
And I think what you,
which what you're trying,

01:33:33.420 --> 01:33:37.220
starting to see in the,
um, in the public, you

01:33:37.220 --> 01:33:40.370
know, in the, on a social
media or otherwise, what

01:33:40.370 --> 01:33:43.010
you are starting to see
is people starting to

01:33:43.010 --> 01:33:47.895
understand that there's
some different areas here

01:33:47.895 --> 01:33:49.815
that we have been, you
know, we went kind of

01:33:49.815 --> 01:33:50.895
too far the other way.

01:33:51.105 --> 01:33:52.515
So now they want to
bring that back to

01:33:52.515 --> 01:33:55.245
the measured, you
know, on measured

01:33:55.245 --> 01:33:56.205
ground, so to speak.

01:33:56.205 --> 01:34:00.855
And then, and then, and
really have, um, I guess,

01:34:00.855 --> 01:34:03.915
a more balanced approach
to some of the issues

01:34:03.915 --> 01:34:06.435
that we're faced with
and used, you're starting

01:34:06.435 --> 01:34:07.785
to see the tides turn.

01:34:07.845 --> 01:34:09.345
Like you're starting
to see, you're starting

01:34:09.345 --> 01:34:10.785
to see it, you know,
it's quite interesting.

01:34:10.895 --> 01:34:11.465
It is.

01:34:11.465 --> 01:34:11.615
Yeah.

01:34:11.795 --> 01:34:12.725
It goes far one way.

01:34:12.725 --> 01:34:13.865
It'll go far
the other way.

01:34:13.865 --> 01:34:15.665
The universe has a
funny way of unfolding

01:34:15.665 --> 01:34:16.295
as it should.

01:34:16.355 --> 01:34:16.745
It is.

01:34:16.925 --> 01:34:17.985
And it's cyclical right.

01:34:17.985 --> 01:34:18.195
It is.

01:34:18.235 --> 01:34:19.445
In a hundred years,
they'll have the

01:34:19.445 --> 01:34:20.315
exact same issue.

01:34:20.615 --> 01:34:20.825
Yeah.

01:34:21.275 --> 01:34:21.755
It is.

01:34:21.845 --> 01:34:23.195
It is what it is,
but we'll be long

01:34:23.195 --> 01:34:23.795
gone by then.

01:34:24.125 --> 01:34:26.855
So the other one I wrote
down here was, okay,

01:34:26.885 --> 01:34:29.315
so you spent a fair bit
of time in policing and

01:34:29.315 --> 01:34:33.515
ERT you're, you're in
roles of higher stress,

01:34:33.905 --> 01:34:37.085
higher excitement, higher
exhilaration, high reward

01:34:37.085 --> 01:34:40.865
for what you're doing for
effort out, what are you

01:34:40.865 --> 01:34:42.275
doing to replace that?

01:34:42.725 --> 01:34:50.105
No, yeah, it's, it's,
it's, it's hard, I would

01:34:50.105 --> 01:34:55.085
say, but I would say
what I miss the most is

01:34:56.795 --> 01:35:01.925
the thought process that
goes behind, um, solving

01:35:01.955 --> 01:35:03.035
tactical dilemmas.

01:35:03.455 --> 01:35:06.635
I just love to use
my brain and to have,

01:35:07.205 --> 01:35:08.945
to problem solve
something that has

01:35:08.945 --> 01:35:15.570
only bad um, solutions.

01:35:16.050 --> 01:35:18.630
Just which one of those
is the less worse and

01:35:18.630 --> 01:35:20.580
how are we going to
mitigate the risk and how

01:35:20.580 --> 01:35:23.490
are we going to be able
to articulate taking a

01:35:23.490 --> 01:35:26.550
certain course of action
and how is that course

01:35:26.550 --> 01:35:29.070
of action justify and you
know, all those things.

01:35:29.070 --> 01:35:30.570
So I really liked
the intricacies

01:35:30.630 --> 01:35:31.380
of doing that.

01:35:31.980 --> 01:35:33.060
I love doing that.

01:35:33.120 --> 01:35:35.820
I missed out a ton and
it's interesting because

01:35:35.880 --> 01:35:38.760
I, I will still get phone
calls, not necessarily

01:35:38.760 --> 01:35:41.310
from my team, but I will
because they're very

01:35:41.310 --> 01:35:43.860
capable, but I, but I
will get phone calls

01:35:43.860 --> 01:35:45.780
sometimes from teams
across the country that

01:35:45.780 --> 01:35:49.260
perhaps haven't had the
same exposure or, or, and

01:35:49.260 --> 01:35:51.210
sometimes just to kind
of run problems by me.

01:35:51.210 --> 01:35:52.540
And I love when
people do that.

01:35:52.790 --> 01:35:53.260
Right.

01:35:53.260 --> 01:35:56.190
Because it keeps me, it
keeps me thinking, it

01:35:56.190 --> 01:35:59.370
keeps me engaged in the
problem solving realm.

01:35:59.820 --> 01:36:02.640
But I would say
though, is in my

01:36:02.640 --> 01:36:05.790
life, I have driven
absolutely everything

01:36:05.790 --> 01:36:06.930
I do into the ground.

01:36:07.590 --> 01:36:08.160
Everything.

01:36:08.700 --> 01:36:10.260
Moderations for cowards.

01:36:10.980 --> 01:36:12.000
I don't believe in it.

01:36:12.390 --> 01:36:15.810
And, uh, when I wanted
to be a SWAT team leader,

01:36:16.590 --> 01:36:19.470
I went all out and I
stayed there for 13

01:36:19.470 --> 01:36:21.510
years, you know, 12 and a
half years, so to speak.

01:36:22.420 --> 01:36:23.010
Well yeah.

01:36:23.040 --> 01:36:26.850
I mean, and, and, and
so I literally took

01:36:26.850 --> 01:36:27.840
that out of my system.

01:36:28.620 --> 01:36:29.940
You know, I took it
out of my system.

01:36:29.940 --> 01:36:32.620
Now, the one thing, the
one thing that I, that

01:36:32.620 --> 01:36:37.725
I cannot put enough
emphasis on is you can't

01:36:37.725 --> 01:36:39.215
let something define you.

01:36:39.895 --> 01:36:40.165
Right.

01:36:40.165 --> 01:36:43.215
If something defines
you completely.

01:36:43.455 --> 01:36:44.355
Let me rephrase that.

01:36:44.985 --> 01:36:48.545
Something may define
you partially.

01:36:49.134 --> 01:36:49.724
External.

01:36:49.985 --> 01:36:50.825
And partially.

01:36:50.855 --> 01:36:51.185
Right.

01:36:51.365 --> 01:36:53.555
You have to have a,
all these other pieces

01:36:53.555 --> 01:36:54.845
that also define you.

01:36:55.085 --> 01:36:55.295
Right.

01:36:55.415 --> 01:36:59.255
So when one of those
pieces goes missing, you

01:36:59.255 --> 01:37:02.345
are re you are capable
of reorging and being the

01:37:02.345 --> 01:37:05.555
same person that you were
use, the experience that

01:37:05.585 --> 01:37:07.685
you've acquired at the
time at which you were,

01:37:07.685 --> 01:37:09.755
you know, involved in
this, in this engagement.

01:37:09.755 --> 01:37:11.465
But th but it
doesn't destroy you.

01:37:11.795 --> 01:37:13.415
So when, uh, one of
the things that we see

01:37:13.415 --> 01:37:15.935
with old generations
RCMP is like the people

01:37:15.935 --> 01:37:18.725
with 30, 40 years of
service is that a lot

01:37:18.725 --> 01:37:22.505
of the times they feel
they are nothing if

01:37:22.505 --> 01:37:24.095
they're not engaged.

01:37:24.365 --> 01:37:24.595
Right.

01:37:24.595 --> 01:37:27.275
So the death rate of
some of those members,

01:37:27.665 --> 01:37:30.215
retiring police officers,
municipal, or otherwise

01:37:31.025 --> 01:37:34.235
are astronomical because
the sense of purpose

01:37:34.235 --> 01:37:37.144
has kind of completely
vanished and disappeared.

01:37:38.255 --> 01:37:40.475
And, um, and it
couldn't be further

01:37:40.475 --> 01:37:41.255
from the truth.

01:37:42.335 --> 01:37:42.965
Oh, absolutely.

01:37:42.995 --> 01:37:44.375
It couldn't be further
from the truth.

01:37:44.405 --> 01:37:46.205
But what we need to do is
we need to start teaching

01:37:46.275 --> 01:37:49.325
our young officers
and everybody, or

01:37:49.565 --> 01:37:52.625
firefighters or whoever
to engage what you are

01:37:52.625 --> 01:37:54.455
doing professionally
does not define you.

01:37:54.965 --> 01:37:56.795
Those are all it's
part of who you are,

01:37:56.795 --> 01:37:57.545
and it's a part.

01:37:58.260 --> 01:38:00.210
If it goes away, just
like anything else,

01:38:00.240 --> 01:38:03.090
you're going to re reorg,
regroup and go again

01:38:03.420 --> 01:38:05.280
and, and, and, you know,
continue to be the person

01:38:05.280 --> 01:38:07.050
that you are and have
a positive, positive

01:38:07.050 --> 01:38:07.860
impact on others.

01:38:07.860 --> 01:38:10.820
So for me, one of the
tiny little bit nice,

01:38:11.240 --> 01:38:19.010
I always liked to be
engaged in, um, I don't

01:38:19.010 --> 01:38:20.810
know how to, this is
quite interesting.

01:38:20.810 --> 01:38:24.200
I don't generally
lose, you know, how

01:38:24.200 --> 01:38:26.240
to articulate certain
things, but I'm having

01:38:26.240 --> 01:38:26.840
an issue with this.

01:38:26.900 --> 01:38:30.290
But it's essentially,
if we act on the premise

01:38:30.320 --> 01:38:34.410
that I lived a warrior
ethos since I was very,

01:38:34.430 --> 01:38:36.800
very young, either
through martial arts or

01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:39.110
through my professional
engagements or whatever

01:38:39.140 --> 01:38:39.950
the case may be.

01:38:40.220 --> 01:38:41.720
And when I say warrior,
I don't, I don't

01:38:41.720 --> 01:38:43.040
mean war in terms of.

01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:43.860
No, I get what
you're saying.

01:38:44.240 --> 01:38:46.910
But just live a
certain ethos.

01:38:48.050 --> 01:38:49.250
I carry it on now.

01:38:49.250 --> 01:38:50.390
I'm a JiuJitsu
black belt.

01:38:50.390 --> 01:38:52.000
I got it this year
when I was retired.

01:38:52.000 --> 01:38:52.420
Good for you.

01:38:52.730 --> 01:38:54.080
Now I'm starting judo.

01:38:54.260 --> 01:38:56.990
Next week, I'm going to
wrap a white belt around

01:38:56.990 --> 01:38:58.100
my, around my waist.

01:38:58.100 --> 01:38:59.900
This is my third
pursuit of black belt

01:38:59.900 --> 01:39:01.610
over my course of my,
you know, my years

01:39:01.760 --> 01:39:02.630
engage in martial arts.

01:39:03.380 --> 01:39:06.470
I am 45 years old,
completely stoked

01:39:06.470 --> 01:39:08.330
and excited to
go to judo route.

01:39:08.420 --> 01:39:11.330
And I'm going to
get, you know, tossed

01:39:11.330 --> 01:39:12.260
over and over again.

01:39:12.260 --> 01:39:14.150
I'm going to learn, I'm
going to learn to things

01:39:14.150 --> 01:39:15.620
and yeah, it's going to
be hard on my body and

01:39:15.620 --> 01:39:16.280
all these other things.

01:39:16.280 --> 01:39:18.860
But so now I've kind of
resurrected my energy.

01:39:18.860 --> 01:39:21.750
Now I want to, I want to
be fully engaged in Judo.

01:39:22.760 --> 01:39:26.670
And so I, I find all
those things that are

01:39:26.670 --> 01:39:34.155
direct, almost, um,
I would say almost in

01:39:34.155 --> 01:39:37.395
line with what I've and
how I've lived my life.

01:39:38.115 --> 01:39:39.945
And I will find as many
of those things as I

01:39:39.945 --> 01:39:41.985
can without, by way of
working out and going

01:39:41.985 --> 01:39:44.175
on hikes with, you know,
if we go on hikes with

01:39:44.175 --> 01:39:45.915
a family, I'll put a
weight vest on and you

01:39:45.915 --> 01:39:48.015
know, I, I'm still in,
I'm still in that mode.

01:39:48.015 --> 01:39:50.565
I can, I'm going to drive
this one into the ground.

01:39:50.565 --> 01:39:52.545
And when they do find
my body, when it's all

01:39:52.545 --> 01:39:54.845
said and done, they will
say this one is a done.

01:39:55.055 --> 01:39:56.425
Done, nothing leftover.

01:39:56.445 --> 01:39:57.945
And if there's ever
an option to bring

01:39:57.945 --> 01:39:59.265
somebody back,
they'll say not him.

01:40:00.315 --> 01:40:01.315
He's too beat up.

01:40:01.315 --> 01:40:02.255
Too worn out.

01:40:03.395 --> 01:40:04.535
He's definitely done.

01:40:04.805 --> 01:40:05.385
Oh man.

01:40:05.565 --> 01:40:05.965
Yeah.

01:40:06.465 --> 01:40:09.935
That's, I like that
persp, so I guess at

01:40:09.995 --> 01:40:14.255
the core that warrior
mindset is what defines

01:40:14.255 --> 01:40:18.635
you, not so much the job,
not so much the martial

01:40:18.635 --> 01:40:21.125
arts, not the leadership
. Training, but the mindset

01:40:21.125 --> 01:40:24.245
or the drive of always
trying to the pursuit of

01:40:24.245 --> 01:40:25.745
excellence essentially.

01:40:26.045 --> 01:40:26.775
Would that be fair?

01:40:26.905 --> 01:40:27.625
Yeah, yeah.

01:40:27.625 --> 01:40:29.405
Yeah it would be an,
I mean, let's get

01:40:29.405 --> 01:40:30.095
something straight.

01:40:30.095 --> 01:40:31.475
I never reached
it anywhere, but.

01:40:32.465 --> 01:40:33.185
And no one does.

01:40:33.245 --> 01:40:34.595
And that's, that's
why they call it the

01:40:34.595 --> 01:40:35.934
pursuit of excellence.

01:40:36.285 --> 01:40:38.705
And, and, uh, you
know, the line is, is

01:40:38.735 --> 01:40:41.405
consistently pushed,
pushed, you know, over

01:40:41.405 --> 01:40:42.395
and over and over.

01:40:42.395 --> 01:40:44.105
And, and that's the
beauty of things.

01:40:44.105 --> 01:40:46.355
And we do so many
things that we skim

01:40:46.365 --> 01:40:47.345
the surface on.

01:40:47.465 --> 01:40:50.005
Uh, and what you
start, what you start

01:40:50.225 --> 01:40:51.935
understanding is
that once you start

01:40:51.935 --> 01:40:54.215
going deeper into
things, there is so

01:40:54.215 --> 01:40:55.385
much more enjoyment.

01:40:55.800 --> 01:40:59.190
Um, one of the things
that I do with my groups,

01:40:59.220 --> 01:41:02.520
when I, when I present,
especially on the, um, on

01:41:02.520 --> 01:41:06.650
the introspective leader
course, is a simple

01:41:06.650 --> 01:41:10.070
exercise to illustrate
how we're overthinking

01:41:10.070 --> 01:41:10.670
certain things.

01:41:10.670 --> 01:41:12.260
And I ask people
like, what do you like

01:41:12.380 --> 01:41:13.550
dark or light coffee?

01:41:14.090 --> 01:41:15.080
And people will
say, oh, I like

01:41:15.080 --> 01:41:15.980
dark, I like light.

01:41:15.980 --> 01:41:17.330
And then you
generally ask why.

01:41:17.330 --> 01:41:19.010
And one of them will
say, well, dark is

01:41:19.010 --> 01:41:20.840
stronger in caffeine
or whatever right.

01:41:20.840 --> 01:41:21.070
Sure.

01:41:21.580 --> 01:41:25.010
And so, and so the
reality is that, you

01:41:25.010 --> 01:41:27.500
know, light coffee is not
roasted nearly as much.

01:41:27.500 --> 01:41:30.590
So the grain are denser
and generally negligibly

01:41:30.590 --> 01:41:31.880
higher in caffeine.

01:41:31.880 --> 01:41:33.410
And if you really want
to increase your caffeine

01:41:33.410 --> 01:41:34.880
content, you're going
to have to jack up

01:41:34.880 --> 01:41:36.440
the amount of coffee
you're drinking, right?

01:41:37.070 --> 01:41:38.600
And so that's one piece.

01:41:38.870 --> 01:41:41.060
But the other piece to
this, aside from the

01:41:41.060 --> 01:41:42.980
fact that most people
think that dark coffee

01:41:42.980 --> 01:41:45.410
is actually stronger when
it isn't the other piece

01:41:45.410 --> 01:41:47.750
to this is the taste
that you're after comes

01:41:47.750 --> 01:41:49.640
from the regions, from
where to coffees come in.

01:41:50.420 --> 01:41:52.400
Because coffee beans
take the taste of

01:41:52.400 --> 01:41:53.150
their environment.

01:41:53.210 --> 01:41:54.980
And so if you're going
to Brazil, your tea,

01:41:55.010 --> 01:41:56.030
your coffee is nutty.

01:41:56.390 --> 01:41:58.640
If you're going
into Ethiopia, your

01:41:58.640 --> 01:42:00.020
coffee tastes more
like chocolate.

01:42:00.320 --> 01:42:02.750
And so w and then once
you understand that

01:42:02.750 --> 01:42:05.120
there is a word there,
what you start doing

01:42:05.120 --> 01:42:07.340
is you stop focusing
on lighter, dark roast,

01:42:07.370 --> 01:42:10.520
and you start looking at
where's the coffee from,

01:42:10.760 --> 01:42:12.340
and what do I feel today.

01:42:12.770 --> 01:42:15.724
You know, do I feel like
vanilla hint or do I feel

01:42:15.724 --> 01:42:18.764
like, you know, and I'm
being a total clown, but

01:42:18.764 --> 01:42:19.335
you know what I mean?

01:42:19.724 --> 01:42:21.134
Like whatever the
case may be, and

01:42:21.134 --> 01:42:24.195
then you can really
go down and explore

01:42:24.525 --> 01:42:25.724
coffees and regions.

01:42:25.995 --> 01:42:28.245
So imagine that you're
traveling to Hawaii,

01:42:28.275 --> 01:42:30.195
you're traveling to
Iceland, you're traveling

01:42:30.195 --> 01:42:31.094
to all these regions.

01:42:31.094 --> 01:42:33.915
And all you've ever said
is I want a dark coffee

01:42:33.915 --> 01:42:36.705
you've missed out on, you
know, how many thousands

01:42:36.705 --> 01:42:39.795
of potentially incredible
flavour of coffee.

01:42:40.184 --> 01:42:43.215
And so this is a really,
really oversimplified

01:42:43.215 --> 01:42:45.615
process and I'm
not even touching

01:42:45.615 --> 01:42:46.335
the surface of it.

01:42:46.335 --> 01:42:49.605
Cause I got, you know,
a very, um, you know,

01:42:49.815 --> 01:42:52.304
rudimentary level
coffee knowledge.

01:42:52.335 --> 01:42:52.575
Right.

01:42:52.605 --> 01:42:55.315
There's people having
masters in coffee.

01:42:55.335 --> 01:42:55.485
Sure.

01:42:55.514 --> 01:42:56.675
You know, coffee
sommelier.

01:42:56.775 --> 01:42:58.155
100% there are.

01:42:58.535 --> 01:43:02.495
And so, but the beauty
with this and the beauty

01:43:02.495 --> 01:43:04.715
of the introspective
leader course is that

01:43:05.764 --> 01:43:08.945
I believe that you can
convey a message to

01:43:08.945 --> 01:43:10.804
people that this will
not only make you a

01:43:10.804 --> 01:43:14.105
better leader, but it
would also teach you to

01:43:14.525 --> 01:43:16.775
appreciate life more.

01:43:17.945 --> 01:43:20.344
I would agree with
that a hundred percent.

01:43:21.245 --> 01:43:23.945
It is absolutely amazing
to go everywhere around

01:43:23.945 --> 01:43:27.995
the world and say,
here's an Iceland coffee.

01:43:28.325 --> 01:43:29.405
Where does this grow?

01:43:30.155 --> 01:43:31.355
What does it taste like?

01:43:31.625 --> 01:43:33.365
It's light, dark, medium.

01:43:33.575 --> 01:43:34.175
Doesn't matter.

01:43:34.645 --> 01:43:35.644
Like, I want to try that.

01:43:35.675 --> 01:43:36.934
So now you try that
and you're like, wow,

01:43:36.934 --> 01:43:39.365
that was absolutely
amazing, right.

01:43:39.365 --> 01:43:41.275
And we do that with
absolutely everything.

01:43:42.165 --> 01:43:45.065
We, we tend to really
really say surface level.

01:43:45.485 --> 01:43:45.844
We do.

01:43:45.934 --> 01:43:48.035
Even though information
is readily available

01:43:48.065 --> 01:43:50.305
more than in any other
time in human history.

01:43:50.335 --> 01:43:52.054
That's probably
why we stay surface

01:43:52.054 --> 01:43:53.135
level because.

01:43:53.165 --> 01:43:54.675
It's too easy to
just find out.

01:43:54.755 --> 01:43:55.085
It is.

01:43:55.085 --> 01:43:57.724
And there's so much
information out there

01:43:58.175 --> 01:44:00.275
that the retention level
of the information that

01:44:00.275 --> 01:44:02.325
comes and goes, it comes,
it goes, to process.

01:44:04.205 --> 01:44:09.845
We today take in on
a daily basis so much

01:44:09.845 --> 01:44:11.615
information that it
can be completely

01:44:11.615 --> 01:44:15.035
overwhelming for, for
most people, honestly.

01:44:15.035 --> 01:44:18.155
And it kind of puts them
into a place of inaction.

01:44:18.635 --> 01:44:20.255
And I, I love that.

01:44:20.255 --> 01:44:21.215
That's Hicks law, right?

01:44:21.215 --> 01:44:22.925
Hicks law, I was just
going to say that yeah.

01:44:23.014 --> 01:44:25.035
Having to having too
many options and, and,

01:44:25.035 --> 01:44:27.125
and, and it stifles your
ability to make a call,

01:44:27.474 --> 01:44:29.855
but here's what needs
to happen in my opinion.

01:44:29.855 --> 01:44:33.095
And I, you know,
um, what matters

01:44:33.155 --> 01:44:34.955
at the time, right?

01:44:35.255 --> 01:44:36.905
And so the issue
is you're right.

01:44:36.905 --> 01:44:38.644
We're consistently
bombarded by all

01:44:38.644 --> 01:44:40.745
those things, and
we're doing it 24 7.

01:44:41.525 --> 01:44:45.005
Now, if I'm selecting
coffee and I live in the

01:44:45.005 --> 01:44:48.335
moment, I'm selecting
coffee right now, I

01:44:48.335 --> 01:44:50.315
know thinking about my
phone call to Karen.

01:44:50.615 --> 01:44:51.035
Right.

01:44:51.545 --> 01:44:51.905
Right.

01:44:52.115 --> 01:44:54.215
And so if we have,
and this comes down to

01:44:54.215 --> 01:44:55.535
mindfulness ultimately.

01:44:56.224 --> 01:44:59.795
And so if, if we have
the ability to actually

01:44:59.885 --> 01:45:03.905
focus on the now and a
little bit before and a

01:45:03.905 --> 01:45:05.974
little bit after just,
you know, for, for good

01:45:05.974 --> 01:45:10.144
measure, we now we now
can focus our attention.

01:45:11.040 --> 01:45:12.900
The now, and what
is the decision that

01:45:12.900 --> 01:45:14.490
I'm making right now
and what is entailed

01:45:14.490 --> 01:45:15.240
in that decision?

01:45:15.240 --> 01:45:16.980
And, you know,
and so it's not an

01:45:16.980 --> 01:45:18.090
overthinking process.

01:45:18.090 --> 01:45:20.040
It's like, yeah, it's
useless information

01:45:20.040 --> 01:45:20.940
until you need it.

01:45:21.480 --> 01:45:21.840
Right.

01:45:22.050 --> 01:45:24.240
And there is no one
of the, it works

01:45:24.240 --> 01:45:26.370
hand-in-hand with the
fact that our brains have

01:45:26.370 --> 01:45:27.360
the ability to retain.

01:45:27.420 --> 01:45:29.340
Listen, there's people
out there that can

01:45:29.340 --> 01:45:31.349
recite an entire
yellow phone book.

01:45:32.190 --> 01:45:34.170
There is no limit to
how much information

01:45:34.170 --> 01:45:34.889
we can have.

01:45:35.219 --> 01:45:37.559
The problem is, is there
is limit to our focus.

01:45:38.040 --> 01:45:38.340
Right.

01:45:38.550 --> 01:45:39.840
That's what
the problem is.

01:45:39.929 --> 01:45:42.090
So you can have the
information that you can

01:45:42.090 --> 01:45:46.260
use when convenient, but
it's going to take you 10

01:45:46.260 --> 01:45:48.330
minutes to understand how
to select your coffee.

01:45:48.540 --> 01:45:51.300
That 10 minutes you
just invested in years

01:45:51.300 --> 01:45:52.349
of coffee enjoyment.

01:45:53.250 --> 01:45:53.639
Right.

01:45:53.969 --> 01:45:57.330
To be used when you
are selecting coffee.

01:45:57.930 --> 01:46:00.599
Not when you're running
your team meeting, right.

01:46:02.130 --> 01:46:03.990
You know, a bunch
of things that you

01:46:03.990 --> 01:46:04.590
brought up there.

01:46:05.610 --> 01:46:08.450
And, you know, you might
have to come on for

01:46:08.450 --> 01:46:10.550
another podcast if I can
coerce you just because

01:46:10.550 --> 01:46:13.130
I don't want to go too
long for everybody here.

01:46:13.240 --> 01:46:15.230
It's interesting though,
they, they, they've.

01:46:15.290 --> 01:46:17.300
People are listening
to the long podcast.

01:46:17.300 --> 01:46:18.469
It's completely insane.

01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:20.269
They break them
down in pieces.

01:46:20.269 --> 01:46:22.370
And Jordan Peterson
was talking about that.

01:46:22.370 --> 01:46:23.690
He says, you would
think that a three-hour

01:46:23.690 --> 01:46:24.950
podcast wouldn't
be as successful.

01:46:24.950 --> 01:46:26.150
And he's like, they're
the more successful.

01:46:26.450 --> 01:46:26.780
Really?

01:46:26.870 --> 01:46:27.110
Yeah.

01:46:27.410 --> 01:46:27.590
Okay.

01:46:27.849 --> 01:46:28.960
Well maybe I've got
to start breaking

01:46:28.969 --> 01:46:29.719
it down into pieces.

01:46:30.030 --> 01:46:30.620
Break the mold.

01:46:30.710 --> 01:46:32.719
I've always gone for
45 minutes to an hour.

01:46:32.750 --> 01:46:36.170
My ethos behind the
podcast was, and is, I

01:46:36.195 --> 01:46:37.815
want to bring something
positive to people.

01:46:37.815 --> 01:46:38.075
Sure.

01:46:38.075 --> 01:46:39.765
I want to bring either
entertainment or

01:46:39.765 --> 01:46:41.775
education or something
that they can walk away

01:46:41.775 --> 01:46:44.565
with and say, I learned
something or I'm better

01:46:44.565 --> 01:46:45.315
for listening to it.

01:46:45.375 --> 01:46:48.375
So in that I try to plan
the podcast and plan the

01:46:48.375 --> 01:46:50.385
guests to bring value
to the listener base.

01:46:50.865 --> 01:46:53.145
And I figure, they're
going to tune out

01:46:53.295 --> 01:46:54.435
after a certain point.

01:46:54.555 --> 01:46:56.685
So I've always looked
at maybe I'll just put

01:46:56.685 --> 01:46:58.965
it out there, anybody
listening who's made it

01:46:58.965 --> 01:47:00.525
this far, let me know.

01:47:00.795 --> 01:47:01.245
Okay.

01:47:01.275 --> 01:47:02.475
Let me know what
you like to hear

01:47:02.525 --> 01:47:04.225
Podcasts@Silvercore.ca.

01:47:04.755 --> 01:47:09.885
But when you're talking
about, um, what defines

01:47:09.885 --> 01:47:14.685
you, you're talking
about, um, when we

01:47:14.685 --> 01:47:16.755
look at, when you're
on the job, when you

01:47:16.755 --> 01:47:19.845
come out and, uh, what
you're doing for that

01:47:19.845 --> 01:47:23.325
excitement level, as well
as living in the moment.

01:47:23.355 --> 01:47:25.455
I very good
friend of mine.

01:47:25.455 --> 01:47:27.105
He's actually been on
this podcast in the

01:47:27.105 --> 01:47:29.415
past, and he's talked
about his SAS selection.

01:47:29.415 --> 01:47:31.425
He talked about his
time British army, and

01:47:32.265 --> 01:47:36.075
he was operating the
338 Lapua over there.

01:47:36.465 --> 01:47:38.325
I used to say Lapooa
until I was schooled

01:47:38.325 --> 01:47:39.215
over at SHOTShow.

01:47:39.215 --> 01:47:40.644
and no, no,
no, it's Lapwa.

01:47:41.065 --> 01:47:41.485
Okay.

01:47:41.885 --> 01:47:42.635
Okay guys.

01:47:42.635 --> 01:47:43.365
At their booth.

01:47:43.395 --> 01:47:47.385
Um, but he is, he
got into extreme

01:47:47.525 --> 01:47:51.555
alpinism and, um, he
does that a fair bit.

01:47:51.555 --> 01:47:53.925
He's going through his
ACMG mountain guide

01:47:53.955 --> 01:47:57.465
creditation and all the
rest, and, uh, found that

01:47:57.465 --> 01:48:00.615
it's a very, uh, positive
outlet for him where

01:48:00.615 --> 01:48:02.985
he's now making those
operational decisions.

01:48:03.930 --> 01:48:05.640
In the mountain, you'll
have a group that

01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:07.890
he'll be bringing up
and he's brought me

01:48:07.890 --> 01:48:10.620
up a number of times
and definitely pushed

01:48:10.620 --> 01:48:12.720
my boundaries as well
when, for the better.

01:48:14.370 --> 01:48:17.010
But it really forces
you to be in the moment.

01:48:17.100 --> 01:48:20.460
And maybe that's a
situation of unconscious,

01:48:22.770 --> 01:48:26.250
unconscious coping,
where as opposed to just

01:48:26.250 --> 01:48:28.860
being mindful, you're
now forced to be mindful.

01:48:29.670 --> 01:48:31.170
When you're surfing,
you're forced to be

01:48:31.170 --> 01:48:32.250
mindful in the moment.

01:48:32.280 --> 01:48:33.720
When you're rock
climbing, you're forced

01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:36.330
to look at every time,
every place you put your

01:48:36.330 --> 01:48:39.150
hand, every, every piece
of gear that you put into

01:48:39.150 --> 01:48:40.950
a crack and check it.

01:48:42.360 --> 01:48:42.840
Um.

01:48:43.820 --> 01:48:45.110
It's outcome focused.

01:48:45.140 --> 01:48:45.680
It is.

01:48:45.740 --> 01:48:48.200
If you don't do it, you
will, something critical

01:48:48.200 --> 01:48:49.370
or dire could happen.

01:48:49.910 --> 01:48:52.430
And it's exactly the
same with JiuJitsu, it

01:48:52.430 --> 01:48:55.100
forces you to be in that
role, if you're thinking

01:48:55.100 --> 01:48:57.890
about your office meeting
or something else, your

01:48:57.950 --> 01:48:59.060
back just got taken.

01:48:59.570 --> 01:49:02.120
But th in all of that
thinking, cause I watched

01:49:02.120 --> 01:49:03.890
him as he goes through
and as he gets, he's

01:49:03.890 --> 01:49:06.900
getting older and he's
maturing in his alpinism

01:49:06.920 --> 01:49:07.700
and all the rest.

01:49:07.700 --> 01:49:10.310
And he's had some
injuries and, and

01:49:10.310 --> 01:49:15.225
seeing the, uh, the
thought process behind.

01:49:15.285 --> 01:49:17.394
Like you look at,
uh, the Ueli Steck.

01:49:17.415 --> 01:49:18.585
I don't know if you've
ever heard that name

01:49:18.585 --> 01:49:21.585
before, but in, in the
alpinism world, kind of

01:49:21.585 --> 01:49:24.045
a big name passed away
a few years ago, but he

01:49:24.045 --> 01:49:28.875
had just record runs up
a lot of, uh, very iconic

01:49:28.875 --> 01:49:31.455
mountains with little
to no gear and, and just

01:49:31.515 --> 01:49:32.535
like no time at all.

01:49:32.535 --> 01:49:34.065
But at some point
of pushing, pushing,

01:49:34.065 --> 01:49:37.815
pushing, and driving
things like you do

01:49:37.875 --> 01:49:39.885
with the different
activities you get into,

01:49:40.455 --> 01:49:42.255
you reach a point of
diminishing returns.

01:49:42.255 --> 01:49:45.105
And in Ueli's case, he's
no longer around anymore.

01:49:45.135 --> 01:49:48.555
He had a fall on one
of his trips, did, not

01:49:48.555 --> 01:49:49.575
adequate protection.

01:49:50.295 --> 01:49:54.465
That mental management
process and that mindset

01:49:54.465 --> 01:49:58.155
of knowing enough,
like, what is enough?

01:49:58.215 --> 01:49:59.565
When do you have enough?

01:49:59.835 --> 01:50:03.075
Do you find that
difficult when you

01:50:03.075 --> 01:50:05.415
start getting into these
different endeavors

01:50:05.415 --> 01:50:06.195
that you get into?

01:50:06.555 --> 01:50:09.645
Like, what is the, what
am I going to be happy?

01:50:09.675 --> 01:50:10.365
What's enough.

01:50:11.015 --> 01:50:12.005
Well, I'm going
to reframe the

01:50:12.005 --> 01:50:12.905
question for you.

01:50:13.055 --> 01:50:13.445
Okay.

01:50:13.925 --> 01:50:16.355
Was that gentlemen
going to a destination

01:50:16.355 --> 01:50:17.855
or is the journey
that he enjoyed?

01:50:18.785 --> 01:50:19.235
Which one?

01:50:19.345 --> 01:50:19.835
Ueli or?

01:50:19.975 --> 01:50:20.355
Yeah, Ueli.

01:50:20.765 --> 01:50:23.135
I mean, it's the journey
that he truly enjoyed.

01:50:23.165 --> 01:50:23.495
Right.

01:50:23.615 --> 01:50:26.165
He wasn't going
anywhere, right?

01:50:26.405 --> 01:50:29.405
So now let's, let's,
let's take Ueli,  with

01:50:29.405 --> 01:50:32.225
the same fire inside
of him and let's sit

01:50:32.225 --> 01:50:34.655
him on a porch for
the last 30 years.

01:50:35.555 --> 01:50:37.625
Actually let's sit him
on the porch at the time

01:50:37.625 --> 01:50:40.265
of death and say, we
just extended your life

01:50:40.295 --> 01:50:42.245
30 years and you can
sit here and watch the

01:50:42.245 --> 01:50:43.445
birds and the cars go by.

01:50:45.210 --> 01:50:45.509
And then.

01:50:45.509 --> 01:50:45.960
Say hell no.

01:50:46.019 --> 01:50:48.660
And then go back and
say, okay, look, we're

01:50:48.660 --> 01:50:51.089
going to return you
30 years before, but

01:50:51.089 --> 01:50:53.700
on one of those climbs
you're going to be done.

01:50:55.740 --> 01:50:56.519
You would pick that.

01:50:56.549 --> 01:50:57.389
I can guarantee it.

01:50:57.780 --> 01:50:59.400
For somebody like that,
I would have to agree.

01:50:59.429 --> 01:51:00.089
A hundred percent.

01:51:00.120 --> 01:51:03.360
So, so for me, it's,
we're acting and this

01:51:03.360 --> 01:51:06.570
is just, it's just
a societal thing.

01:51:06.570 --> 01:51:08.099
And I think it just
has to do with the

01:51:08.099 --> 01:51:09.929
fact that we're so
comfortable, right?

01:51:09.929 --> 01:51:11.700
If you were in
Somalia right now,

01:51:12.389 --> 01:51:13.500
I grew up there.

01:51:13.740 --> 01:51:16.049
You wouldn't be thinking
that far in advance

01:51:16.139 --> 01:51:18.690
because you've seen
people die left, right.

01:51:18.690 --> 01:51:21.540
And center
incessantly every day.

01:51:21.540 --> 01:51:24.120
So you're not, you're
also could be very,

01:51:24.120 --> 01:51:24.750
very different.

01:51:24.780 --> 01:51:28.200
We're seeing death
as this big monster.

01:51:29.099 --> 01:51:30.599
None of us is coming
out of this alive.

01:51:31.380 --> 01:51:34.200
None of us is like this
isn't, this isn't a

01:51:34.200 --> 01:51:37.170
destination type thing,
this is a journey.

01:51:37.799 --> 01:51:40.349
And he died doing what
he loved the most.

01:51:40.710 --> 01:51:42.299
It would have been no
different for me if I

01:51:42.299 --> 01:51:44.900
was dying, doing some
tactical operation,

01:51:44.900 --> 01:51:46.170
hopefully by not
something completely

01:51:46.170 --> 01:51:47.090
stupid that I did.

01:51:47.269 --> 01:51:47.469
Sure.

01:51:47.700 --> 01:51:49.799
You know, and or,
or somebody else did

01:51:49.799 --> 01:51:51.120
that now they have
to live with that.

01:51:51.570 --> 01:51:53.549
But if, if we were to
take all the complex

01:51:53.920 --> 01:51:55.980
complexity outside,
you know, out of it

01:51:56.009 --> 01:51:58.710
and say, okay, you
stood up for what you

01:51:58.710 --> 01:52:01.080
felt was right at a
time at which somebody

01:52:01.080 --> 01:52:02.040
needed to step up.

01:52:02.670 --> 01:52:07.019
And you like many before
you have done have

01:52:07.019 --> 01:52:08.519
sacrificed your life.

01:52:11.505 --> 01:52:12.075
Sign me up.

01:52:12.465 --> 01:52:14.144
Very good point.

01:52:15.315 --> 01:52:18.375
I just, I just think
that longevity versus

01:52:18.375 --> 01:52:21.345
intensity, I'll
take intensity of

01:52:21.345 --> 01:52:22.425
my life, you know?

01:52:23.625 --> 01:52:25.035
Um, and that's just.

01:52:26.385 --> 01:52:27.255
Every man dies.

01:52:27.255 --> 01:52:28.485
Not every man
truly lives.

01:52:29.144 --> 01:52:30.855
That's just, that's just
how I feel about it.

01:52:30.855 --> 01:52:32.655
I just, I just truly
think that if he was

01:52:32.655 --> 01:52:33.795
given the choice, he
probably would have

01:52:33.795 --> 01:52:34.575
picked the same choice.

01:52:35.955 --> 01:52:36.465
I like that.

01:52:36.675 --> 01:52:36.945
Yeah.

01:52:38.045 --> 01:52:39.905
Well, one last
thing I have here.

01:52:39.935 --> 01:52:40.115
Yeah.

01:52:40.115 --> 01:52:41.825
That was actually going
to start with this, but

01:52:41.825 --> 01:52:45.335
we kind of went through
and are in a route here.

01:52:45.665 --> 01:52:48.245
But when I look at the
podcasts that you've been

01:52:48.245 --> 01:52:53.165
doing right recently,
I, you see the number

01:52:53.165 --> 01:52:55.505
of podcasts and places
that you've been, uh,

01:52:55.535 --> 01:52:56.585
you've been speaking.

01:52:57.394 --> 01:53:00.665
It strikes me that
it's similar to working

01:53:00.665 --> 01:53:03.275
out it's similar to
JiuJitsu and that you're

01:53:03.275 --> 01:53:04.295
training for something.

01:53:04.505 --> 01:53:07.685
Am I correct in the, in
that casual observation,

01:53:07.715 --> 01:53:12.245
are you training for
a, uh, for something?

01:53:12.305 --> 01:53:13.265
A podcast marathon.

01:53:14.275 --> 01:53:16.715
Your, your own podcast
or to be on certain

01:53:16.715 --> 01:53:18.335
podcasts, hopefully
in the future?

01:53:18.335 --> 01:53:20.765
Or is there, do you
have a goal in that?

01:53:22.955 --> 01:53:25.650
I mean, it would be
semi disingenious to

01:53:25.650 --> 01:53:26.940
say I don't have a goal.

01:53:26.940 --> 01:53:28.769
I mean, my goal is
always to get better.

01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:29.250
Right.

01:53:29.370 --> 01:53:32.190
And I like to be, I like
to have conversations.

01:53:32.490 --> 01:53:34.170
I love to have
conversations.

01:53:34.170 --> 01:53:36.330
It's especially
productive to way,

01:53:36.509 --> 01:53:38.160
you know, bilateral
communication

01:53:38.160 --> 01:53:39.000
conversations.

01:53:39.690 --> 01:53:44.599
Um, and I like to
do it because I know

01:53:45.320 --> 01:53:51.860
that, um, I, I have an
ability to generally

01:53:51.860 --> 01:53:52.610
connect with people.

01:53:52.610 --> 01:53:54.650
So I, I know that
there is value to it.

01:53:54.650 --> 01:53:56.710
So I, I really
enjoy doing that.

01:53:57.519 --> 01:54:00.679
And I don't overstate
the value of it.

01:54:01.400 --> 01:54:03.620
I don't think I'm
critically important

01:54:03.620 --> 01:54:04.460
or anything like that.

01:54:04.519 --> 01:54:07.250
But what I do think is
that there are certain

01:54:07.250 --> 01:54:09.980
conversations there ought
to be had that we're

01:54:09.980 --> 01:54:12.139
not having, that I would
love to be a part of.

01:54:12.500 --> 01:54:16.610
And if going on bigger
and bigger platform is

01:54:16.610 --> 01:54:19.250
something that's down
the road for me, I

01:54:19.250 --> 01:54:21.230
would, I would love that.

01:54:21.349 --> 01:54:22.040
I would love that.

01:54:22.309 --> 01:54:23.179
Here's the other thing.

01:54:23.750 --> 01:54:25.700
And that's something
that surprised quite

01:54:25.700 --> 01:54:28.610
a few people, but I
also would be totally

01:54:28.610 --> 01:54:30.290
okay with going a
podcast and not speak

01:54:30.290 --> 01:54:31.219
about policing at all.

01:54:31.280 --> 01:54:31.610
Right.

01:54:32.599 --> 01:54:33.230
At all.

01:54:33.330 --> 01:54:35.990
I can, I can have
conversations about a

01:54:35.990 --> 01:54:37.880
million different things,
and I'm not suggesting

01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:39.500
that during an entire
three-hour podcast,

01:54:39.500 --> 01:54:41.420
I'm not going to refer
to an experience that

01:54:41.420 --> 01:54:43.940
I had or something,
you know, because

01:54:43.940 --> 01:54:45.950
it's been a part of me
for so long and it's

01:54:46.340 --> 01:54:48.769
taught me some valuable
lessons, but in terms

01:54:48.769 --> 01:54:51.180
of the actual topic.

01:54:51.570 --> 01:54:53.160
Uh, it could be
absolutely anything.

01:54:53.220 --> 01:54:55.080
I just love to have
conversations and I,

01:54:55.080 --> 01:54:58.380
and being on podcasts
really feels good.

01:54:58.510 --> 01:54:59.460
Like I love to do it.

01:54:59.880 --> 01:55:00.540
I love to do it.

01:55:00.540 --> 01:55:02.550
I think it, I think
it's, and so people

01:55:02.550 --> 01:55:04.170
have suggested, you
know, you, maybe you

01:55:04.170 --> 01:55:05.640
should have your own
and all these other

01:55:05.640 --> 01:55:08.400
things, I really don't
want to do any editing.

01:55:08.400 --> 01:55:09.870
And I, and I don't
think I'm that great

01:55:09.870 --> 01:55:11.400
of an interviewer's
to be honest with you,

01:55:11.400 --> 01:55:13.170
and maybe I become
better or, you know.

01:55:13.950 --> 01:55:17.040
But I just, um, I just
prefer, I just kind of

01:55:17.040 --> 01:55:19.890
prefer being a guest,
if that makes any sense.

01:55:20.050 --> 01:55:20.650
Oh it does.

01:55:20.840 --> 01:55:23.750
You know, when I started
this podcast, I hadn't

01:55:23.750 --> 01:55:25.790
listened to it really,
any podcast prior.

01:55:26.300 --> 01:55:29.300
I was on a podcast, a
friend of mine had me

01:55:29.300 --> 01:55:31.340
on his podcast, he's
got a local business

01:55:31.340 --> 01:55:34.340
here in these, uh,
teaches new hunters and,

01:55:35.180 --> 01:55:37.610
and, uh, that was fun.

01:55:37.670 --> 01:55:39.620
And then I, uh, went
down, I saw Steve

01:55:39.620 --> 01:55:42.320
Rinella, he's got a
Netflix show called

01:55:42.320 --> 01:55:43.280
MeatEater, and he's a.

01:55:43.820 --> 01:55:45.080
Yeah, I follow the show.

01:55:45.410 --> 01:55:46.940
I watch it, Joe
Rogan and everything.

01:55:46.940 --> 01:55:47.690
I just love the show.

01:55:47.690 --> 01:55:51.440
So got to meet Steve
and Janice and a few

01:55:51.440 --> 01:55:52.820
of the other people
on there and actually

01:55:52.820 --> 01:55:54.830
became good friends with
one of the people who's

01:55:55.250 --> 01:55:56.510
with MeatEater there.

01:55:56.510 --> 01:55:59.730
And, uh, I thought,
well, this is kind

01:55:59.730 --> 01:56:02.640
of neat, but entirely
outside my comfort zone.

01:56:03.240 --> 01:56:06.060
I've got ADHD, I have
a conversation up until

01:56:06.060 --> 01:56:07.850
a point where I loose
interest and usually

01:56:07.850 --> 01:56:09.230
that's why I just
get up and walk away.

01:56:10.220 --> 01:56:14.510
That's so this has been
a for me something to

01:56:14.540 --> 01:56:16.850
share my positivity, and
it's been a very positive

01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:20.600
outlet to try and support
others in the, uh, who

01:56:20.600 --> 01:56:21.590
have similar interests.

01:56:21.650 --> 01:56:25.010
And I've specifically
not called this the,

01:56:25.490 --> 01:56:28.220
like say the MeatEater
podcast, or the, uh,

01:56:28.340 --> 01:56:30.710
the firearms podcast,
because those are only

01:56:30.710 --> 01:56:32.780
small portions of things
that interests me.

01:56:33.350 --> 01:56:38.090
And it's kind of, in
some ways, um, it can be

01:56:38.090 --> 01:56:40.490
detrimental in the short
term because people look

01:56:40.490 --> 01:56:41.870
at the title and like,
what the hell am I going

01:56:41.870 --> 01:56:42.740
to be listening to here?

01:56:43.010 --> 01:56:45.440
But I'm hoping that in
the longterm, the breadth

01:56:45.470 --> 01:56:47.060
of the guests and the
breadth of what we're

01:56:47.060 --> 01:56:49.820
bringing in with the
underlying positivity, as

01:56:49.820 --> 01:56:52.970
well as, as we do this,
I can feel, I feel myself

01:56:53.000 --> 01:56:55.210
very slowly getting
a little bit better,

01:56:55.460 --> 01:56:58.370
less um's and ahh's and
better able to engage.

01:56:58.370 --> 01:57:02.870
So similar to where
you're at, uh, not only

01:57:02.870 --> 01:57:05.150
as a positive thing,
I found I've found the

01:57:05.150 --> 01:57:09.110
podcast to be a challenge
and something that

01:57:09.200 --> 01:57:13.730
requires constant study,
constant concentration,

01:57:13.730 --> 01:57:14.870
research on people.

01:57:14.870 --> 01:57:17.420
How, how do I engage
better or better

01:57:17.420 --> 01:57:18.920
equipment or whatever
it might be so.

01:57:19.370 --> 01:57:23.030
It's, um, definitely
a different experience

01:57:23.030 --> 01:57:24.800
hosting the podcast
than being on a

01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:26.060
podcast as a guest.

01:57:27.720 --> 01:57:29.940
I don't know, I think,
uh, if you ever do

01:57:30.090 --> 01:57:32.100
want to, uh, take
on that challenge,

01:57:32.100 --> 01:57:34.330
I think he would do
very, very well at it.

01:57:34.330 --> 01:57:34.550
Yeah.

01:57:34.740 --> 01:57:36.620
I've, I've heard that,
I've heard that a few

01:57:36.620 --> 01:57:39.920
times and I, I, you
know, it's almost like

01:57:39.920 --> 01:57:44.549
something, something in
me says, um, now is not

01:57:44.570 --> 01:57:46.760
the time type deal, you
know, like it just, just.

01:57:47.059 --> 01:57:48.130
Trust your gut.

01:57:48.160 --> 01:57:49.610
Yeah and I've yeah.

01:57:50.240 --> 01:57:52.190
The reason why I really,
really believe that

01:57:52.340 --> 01:57:54.680
is that I've pretty
much run my life

01:57:54.710 --> 01:57:56.630
like this, and it's
always paid dividends.

01:57:56.930 --> 01:57:59.150
And sometimes I could be
having this conversation

01:57:59.150 --> 01:58:01.580
with you and tomorrow
morning, I'm ready to

01:58:01.580 --> 01:58:02.630
have my own podcast.

01:58:02.690 --> 01:58:03.050
Right.

01:58:03.110 --> 01:58:03.559
You know what I mean?

01:58:03.559 --> 01:58:04.390
Like it, it changes.

01:58:04.390 --> 01:58:04.520
Click.

01:58:04.520 --> 01:58:05.140
Really quickly.

01:58:05.600 --> 01:58:06.769
And then it's like,
okay, the time is

01:58:06.769 --> 01:58:09.530
right, knuckle down that
let's get this done.

01:58:09.530 --> 01:58:12.230
So it will be interesting
right now, of course

01:58:12.320 --> 01:58:13.580
I'm floating, right.

01:58:13.820 --> 01:58:15.920
And at very living
very organically

01:58:15.920 --> 01:58:18.620
since retiring from
a very structured and

01:58:18.620 --> 01:58:22.070
regimented, you know,
um, lifestyle over the

01:58:22.070 --> 01:58:24.860
course of my military
and then RCMP career.

01:58:24.980 --> 01:58:27.800
Essentially, I've been
institutionalized for

01:58:27.800 --> 01:58:30.350
the better part of my
adult life and so now I'm

01:58:30.350 --> 01:58:33.350
learning to, you know, do
things very organically

01:58:33.650 --> 01:58:34.490
and I really enjoy it.

01:58:34.490 --> 01:58:36.110
So we'll see, it's
not outside the

01:58:36.110 --> 01:58:37.100
realm of possibility.

01:58:37.160 --> 01:58:40.019
I would love to hit,
you know, the, the, the

01:58:40.030 --> 01:58:43.110
Jordan Peterson to Joe
Rogan's the, the, the,

01:58:43.250 --> 01:58:48.080
the Jocko, if there's a,
uh, you know, if I can

01:58:48.080 --> 01:58:50.900
contribute something,
if, if there's a, if

01:58:50.900 --> 01:58:52.970
there's a feeling a
true, a true feeling

01:58:52.970 --> 01:58:54.650
that I can contribute
something positive.

01:58:55.710 --> 01:58:55.830
Right.

01:58:55.845 --> 01:58:56.905
And that's that's that.

01:58:56.955 --> 01:58:58.065
I wouldn't want to
just go there just

01:58:58.065 --> 01:58:58.755
to go with there.

01:58:58.755 --> 01:59:00.045
You know, you look
at me, I'm on the

01:59:00.045 --> 01:59:01.455
Jocko podcast and what
am I talking about?

01:59:01.455 --> 01:59:02.445
Well, whatever.

01:59:02.655 --> 01:59:03.765
Oh, you'd look back
and you wouldn't

01:59:03.765 --> 01:59:04.275
be proud of that.

01:59:04.305 --> 01:59:05.025
No, exactly.

01:59:05.265 --> 01:59:06.165
So, yeah.

01:59:06.934 --> 01:59:07.445
Very cool.

01:59:07.475 --> 01:59:11.045
So maybe we'll just wrap
this up with, if we did

01:59:11.045 --> 01:59:14.855
another podcast, what,
if you could do a podcast

01:59:14.855 --> 01:59:16.985
about anything, anything.

01:59:16.985 --> 01:59:19.325
Pull it out of a
magic box and say,

01:59:19.325 --> 01:59:20.644
this is what we're
going to talk about.

01:59:21.785 --> 01:59:22.835
What would you
want to talk about?

01:59:27.905 --> 01:59:28.684
Wow.

01:59:29.255 --> 01:59:31.325
That's um, that's
a tough one.

01:59:33.605 --> 01:59:36.515
If we could do a podcast
on absolutely anything.

01:59:38.225 --> 01:59:40.625
Or would that just change
day by day, depending

01:59:40.625 --> 01:59:41.585
on what's currently?

01:59:43.025 --> 01:59:43.625
No.

01:59:46.025 --> 01:59:49.295
There is so many subjects
and so many things

01:59:49.295 --> 01:59:50.525
that I'm interested in.

01:59:51.125 --> 01:59:55.235
Um, and I think we have
a vested interest in

01:59:55.235 --> 01:59:57.425
absolutely everything
that surrounds us, right.

01:59:57.575 --> 02:00:01.205
And so we could talk
about, you know, kids

02:00:01.205 --> 02:00:04.684
and raising 'em and we
could talk about outdoors

02:00:04.684 --> 02:00:09.215
and, and, and, and we
could talk about travel.

02:00:09.394 --> 02:00:11.045
We could talk about,
you know, like, I mean

02:00:11.115 --> 02:00:14.105
the animals and the list
just goes on and on, you

02:00:14.105 --> 02:00:15.545
know, animals might get
weird though here, it's

02:00:15.545 --> 02:00:16.625
a hunting podcast, right.

02:00:16.625 --> 02:00:18.934
So we'll leave the, leave
the animals out of there.

02:00:19.724 --> 02:00:20.625
You know what I
think it'd be fun

02:00:20.625 --> 02:00:21.164
to talk about?

02:00:21.324 --> 02:00:21.544
What?

02:00:21.855 --> 02:00:24.245
Your new business
and starting it and

02:00:24.245 --> 02:00:25.754
the challenges of
running a business.

02:00:25.754 --> 02:00:26.144
Sure.

02:00:26.205 --> 02:00:27.945
The other thing that'd be
kind of interesting cause

02:00:27.945 --> 02:00:29.804
I got a sense I could
be wrong, but I think

02:00:29.804 --> 02:00:32.415
there's a spirituality
to, uh, to the martial

02:00:32.415 --> 02:00:34.455
arts and to you and
what you do and how

02:00:34.455 --> 02:00:37.065
that guides the mental
management process, which

02:00:37.065 --> 02:00:38.174
we didn't even touch on.

02:00:38.445 --> 02:00:41.714
And I think that whole
aspect would be a very

02:00:41.714 --> 02:00:44.115
interesting one to talk
about, but maybe, um,

02:00:44.865 --> 02:00:46.875
maybe we just put a pin
in this one for now and

02:00:46.875 --> 02:00:48.615
uh, go get some food.

02:00:48.865 --> 02:00:49.235
Yeah man.

02:00:49.304 --> 02:00:51.525
I'm all for spirituality
podcast down the line.

02:00:52.065 --> 02:00:52.905
Thanks for having me.

02:00:52.995 --> 02:01:04.614
Thank you very much for
being on this podcast.