Real Business Conversations is a monthly podcast from Kinore, hosted by CEO and founder Larissa Feeney. Each episode is an honest, unscripted conversation with a business owner or expert about the real story behind building and growing a business in Ireland.
Most of what we see and hear is forgotten almost instantly. One widely-cited estimate is that as little as 4% of advertising is remembered positively. So why do some of the world's biggest, most data-driven brands keep investing in it, and what is a brand actually worth to the bottom line of a business?
This conversation covers the real difference between brand and marketing, why a strong brand can be worth up to a quarter of a company's total value, the risks of building a business around a single founder's personal profile, and the eighteen-month journey behind Kinore's own rebrand from Accountant Online.
Joining Larissa is Ray Sheerin, former founder and Managing Director of Chemistry, one of Dublin's best-known creative agencies, who also worked with global agencies Ogilvy and Saatchi & Saatchi earlier in his career. A highly respected brand and marketing strategist, Ray guided Kinore through its own rebrand from Accountant Online, helping to define the company's tone of voice, core values and overall marketing strategy.
SOURCES AND CITATIONS
Books, research and people referenced by Ray and Larissa during the conversation.
Les Binet & Peter Field, The Long and the Short of It: Balancing Short and Long-Term Marketing Strategies (IPA, 2013) – www.amazon.ie/dp/085294134X.
The study Ray references as “the biggest study into effectiveness award-winning case studies ever undertaken”, comparing long-term brand building with short-term sales activation.
Byron Sharp, How Brands Grow: What Marketers Don't Know (Oxford University Press, 2010) – www.amazon.ie/dp/0195573560.
Byron Sharp directs the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute, which Ray cites for its work on marketing spend benchmarks.
Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science, University of South Australia – www.marketingscience.info.
The research institute behind the “excess share of voice” (ESOV) concept Ray discusses, and home to academics Byron Sharp and Jenny Romaniuk, both referenced in the episode.
Rory Sutherland, Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense (WH Allen, 2019) – www.amazon.ie/dp/0753556529.
Source of “logic never solved a persistent problem, because if it could have, it would already have done so.”
Gerald Ratner, The Rise and Fall...and Rise Again (Capstone, 2008) – www.amazon.ie/dp/1906465290
Ratner's own account of the 1991 speech and its fallout, discussed in the episode as a cautionary tale about founder-led brands.
Dave Trott – davetrott.co.uk, referenced for his UK advertising-spend statistics and his line that advertising is “the last legal unfair advantage we have over the competition.” He is the author of Predatory Thinking (Macmillan, 2013) – www.amazon.ie/dp/1447285344.
THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT
The real difference between brand and marketing
Why a strong brand can be worth up to a quarter of a company's value
The risk of building a business around a founder's personal brand
Inside the eighteen-month journey behind Kinore's rebrand
Weaning the business off paid Google Ads in favour of organic content
Ray's single best piece of advice for building a memorable brand
GUEST DETAILS
Ray Sheerin is a highly respected brand and marketing strategist with decades of experience helping businesses define their identity, sharpen their positioning, and drive long-term growth.
Ray is the former founder and Managing Director of Chemistry, a very well-known Dublin creative agency which he led for 21 years until 2020. Earlier in his career he worked with global marketing giants Ogilvy and Saatchi & Saatchi. As the former founder and Managing Director of leading creative agencies, Ray has guided countless leadership teams through pivotal transformations, helping them articulate who they are, what they stand for, and how to connect meaningfully with their target audience. In 2023 he was awarded an Honorary Fellowship, the highest honour of the Institute of Advertising Practitioners in Ireland (IAPI), and he is a Chartered Director with the Institute of Directors.
Ray played an instrumental role in shaping the identity of Kinore, guiding the team through their rebrand from Accountant Online. Over several months of strategic workshops, Ray helped define Kinore's tone of voice, core values, and overall marketing strategy. He brings invaluable expertise on the true power of brand building and why investing in brand identity is critical for long-term business success.
Website: www.raysheerin.com
ABOUT KINORE
Kinore is an award winning and innovative online Chartered Accountancy service that takes away the worry and headache of running your own finance and related business services functions.
https://kinore.com/
ABOUT YOUR HOST
The host of this podcast is Larissa Feeney, CEO and Founder of Kinore, an award-winning online accountancy and business services firm based in Ireland.
Larissa's journey is notable, starting in hospitality before transitioning to accounting, where she qualified as a Chartered Accountant.
Driven by a vision to challenge traditional accountancy and leverage technology, Larissa founded Kinore in 2015, establishing Ireland's first online, remote-first Finance and Business Services company.
Under her leadership, Kinore has received numerous accolades, and Larissa herself has been recognised with awards like 'Accountant of the Year'.
QUOTES
A brand is really what exists in the head of an individual – the best definition I've heard is that a brand is the promise of an experience. - Ray Sheerin
The value of a brand can be anywhere between 15% and 25% of the total value of the business. - Ray Sheerin
Logic never solved a persistent problem, because if it could have, it would already have done so. - Ray Sheerin
What we did was a complete flip, which was 100% the right thing to do, but absolutely not the easiest thing to do. - Larissa Feeney
Befriend somebody who is a creative thinker. - Ray Sheerin
A brand will exist independent of marketing once it has been built. - Ray Sheerin
KEYWORDS
#BrandStrategy #BrandVsMarketing #Rebranding #Kinore #IrishBusiness
What is Real Business Conversations with Kinore?
Dive in for the gritty truth from the trenches of business.
No unicorns, no brands. Just hard-working people who built their business from the ground up. They share real life stories, challenges and solutions, plus the risks they've taken and how they stepped outside their comfort zone to find success.
If you're running a business, join Larissa Feeney and get the inside track from others who have been down the road already.
Click follow to get new episodes on the last Monday of every month.
Real Business Conversations is produced by DustPod.io for Kinore Finance and Business Services.