WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.000 Hey friend, listen. I know the world is scary right now. Corruption, war, inflation, demographics, 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:17.000 degeneracy, disease, unrest, hatred, and despair. We didn't come here to tell you how it is, 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.000 but that it's going to get way better. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:43.000 Hey, welcome. So, back in the show, today we want to talk about Bitcoin Christianity. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:48.000 More specifically, we want to talk about Thank God for Bitcoin organization, 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:52.000 and the Orange Umbrella, which is a new book that this organization, 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.000 Thank God for Bitcoin, is going to be putting out in the wild for everybody. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:01.000 And on the show today, we have the illustrious Jordan Bush. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.000 He's been around Bitcoin for a while. 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:13.000 He is a pivotal key mover in the space, if you will, especially with Bitcoin and Christianity. 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:19.000 Jordan, welcome to the show. You've been on the show before, obviously, and great to have you back. 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:23.000 Great to have you. Great to be back on the pod, not to have you. 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:29.000 I had you two days ago on my podcast, so this is a great little reversal of roles here. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:35.000 Yeah. So, I think what we're going to do for this episode is, 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:40.000 I want to start at a high level of Bitcoin and Christianity. 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.000 Why are these things kind of connected? 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.000 Why have people been discovering all these connections, 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:50.000 and why is it becoming a thing, a bigger and bigger thing in the space, first off? 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:55.000 And then secondly, let's transition to Thank God for Bitcoin, the organization. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.000 How did it start? What's your involvement there? 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:03.000 And then thirdly, hopefully we'll be able to get JD on the call in a second here, 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:08.000 but the orange umbrella, where does this idea come from? 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.000 What's it about? What is this book about? 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.000 And how can people get a hold of it and that whole thing? 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.000 So, yeah, big, big picture. Let's start at the top. 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.000 Yeah. Bitcoin and Christianity. 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.000 I think for a lot of people, the topic of Bitcoin and Christianity 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.000 is similar to their feelings about chocolate-covered anchovies. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.000 There's lots of people who may be stumbling across this who are like, 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.000 listen, I hate anchovies, and I hate chocolate-covered anchovies. 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.000 Or maybe it would be like urine-covered anchovies. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.000 I don't want to be anywhere near urine. I don't want to be anywhere near anchovies. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.000 The two things together are just awful. 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.000 So there's a whole bunch of people. They're probably not watching this. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.000 But if they do, they're like awful. They're going to click off. 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:54.000 Probably for Bitcoiners, for the vast majority of them, 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:58.000 the chocolate-covered anchovies is probably a better analogy. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.000 Because you're like, hey, I have this thing that I really like, which is chocolate. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.000 But then why are you putting the chocolate on the anchovies? 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.000 Yuck. We don't like that over there. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.000 And so, again, I'm sympathetic to that. 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:13.000 At first blush, these two things don't seem like they have a lot to do with one another. 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.000 You have Bitcoin, which is this novel thing that's coming around 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:22.000 and fixing lots of things that were broken and old and outdated and those kind of things, corrupt. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:28.000 And so why in the world would you pollute that seemingly great, pristine thing 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.000 with something like religion, much less Christianity? 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.000 So, again, I'm sympathetic to people who have that perspective. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:41.000 And I would just respectfully disagree and would be happy to have conversations about why I think that is. 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:46.000 But in terms of why this is – well, we could go a lot of directions. 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:52.000 But I think one of the reasons why, at least from a Christian perspective, why do these two things connect, 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:59.000 the Apostle Paul in the book of 1 Corinthians, I believe – I'm trying to think of what the verse is. 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:03.000 It just left my head. 1030, I think, is what it is. 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:08.000 It says that whether you eat or drink, do all to the glory of God. 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:11.000 No, it says – actually, I'm sorry. 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.000 Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:22.000 So basically it's saying no matter what you're into or doing in your daily life, it can be done. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.000 It ought to be done for the glory of God. 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.000 It ought to be done in such a way that we give thanks to God. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.000 We're grateful for the ability to do it. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.000 We're grateful for the strength to do it with. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:39.000 And so all of these things – there is a way to do anything that isn't outright sin. 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:46.000 There's a way to do anything and a reason to care about any and everything through – 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:53.000 because we care about God and because God is the originator of life and the giver of life and all these things. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:57.000 And so again, life is designed to live for his glory. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.000 God has a plan for the world. 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.000 He has a plan for people's lives. 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:02.000 It's a good plan. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:06.000 And so we want to wield everything that exists for his glory. 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:12.000 Now again, Bitcoin, there are things that are neutral in the world. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.000 There are things like a crayon. 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:20.000 A crayon has no – again, there's no moral component there to the use of a crayon, 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.000 potentially with the creation of the crayon maybe if it was made by little kids in a sweatshop. 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:30.000 But in terms of the usage of the crayon itself, there's nothing inherently moral there. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.000 With money, you can't say that. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:37.000 Money is not just a neutral thing because there are different types of money. 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:43.000 And so Bitcoin as one's very specific type of money that incentivizes – 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:49.000 whose creation and constraints are structured in a very particular way 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:59.000 and that contrast with the constraints that govern normal – what we would call normal fiat currency, it's very different. 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:04.000 And so it incentivizes very different types of lives in the world. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:14.000 And so insofar as Bitcoin is more closely aligned and very aligned with the way that God designed the world to work, 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.000 which is something we can unpack a little bit more later, 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:22.000 insofar that it's more closely aligned with that, then it's something that Christians ought to care about 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:27.000 and it's something that really has everything to do with the Christian faith 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:33.000 and how Christians look at the world and are called to operate in the world. 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:41.000 Yeah. I love all that. I think that's a huge big picture, right? 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.000 Like, hey, we're just supposed to – this is the only thing you're supposed to do. 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.000 But there's also something to be said about Bitcoin in particular. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.000 One Corinthians 10.31, like you mentioned. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:59.000 So whether you eat or drink, do whatever you do, do all to the glory of God, 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.000 whatever you do, do all to the glory of God, right? 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:06.000 But then there's this thing – and you see it in some other things too, and we were talking about this earlier this week. 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.000 There are some things, like you mentioned, that aren't neutral. 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:15.000 For instance, slavery. Oh, we're just going to participate in slavery. 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.000 Well, is that a neutral thing? 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Is that like okay to participate in slavery? 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.000 Yeah. No, it's not. 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:26.000 Yes, exactly. Or abortion. Is that a neutral thing to participate in abortion? 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.000 Yeah. 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.000 And I think – now we got JD on the show. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.000 Let's go. Let's go. 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.000 Hey, hey. Sorry I was a little late, guys. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.000 No worries. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.000 Make sure this works. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:47.000 Yeah, we were just jumping in on big picture stuff with regard to the relationship between Bitcoin and Christianity. 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.000 Jordan gave us a good introduction there. 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:58.000 And then I kind of wanted to bring it home with the idea that there are some things, as Jordan mentioned, that are not neutral. 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:02.000 And one of those things is fiat currency. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:09.000 And a lot of people, especially in the Bitcoin circle – or not Bitcoin, especially in Christian circles, just have no idea. 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.000 These are very – it's just, oh, this is normative. 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:17.000 This is – fiat is just like a crayon to many people. 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.000 It's, oh, yeah, we can just use it for buying things or whatever. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.000 It's not a problem. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:28.000 So Jordan, do you want to go in and kind of describe why that is actually a problem? 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.000 What is actually wrong with fiat and why should a Christian care about that? 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:38.000 Yeah, again, this is something – so again, my background in Bitcoin – yeah, I mean I've been on the podcast a few times talking about it. 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:44.000 My background in Bitcoin, my way of getting in was basically I was a pastor and missionary living in Uruguay. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:53.000 I started a very small church that had a – basically contrary to what we were thinking, ended up having about half the church be constituted of Venezuelan immigrants. 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.000 So these were people who had their currency destroyed. 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.000 They had their lives destroyed. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.000 These were not poor people. 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.000 These were wealthy people. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.000 People were making over $100,000 a year in some cases. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.000 We had doctors, economists, like all these kind of things. 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.000 And then a few years later, they had no money. 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:22.000 And so they had to flee the country on foot, cross the border, take a bus 15, 20 hours to go to a totally different country where they were going to try to get a job, send money home, and eventually hopefully bring more family members with them. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.000 And so this is kind of my introduction. 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:30.000 And so as introduction to this problem without knowing that it had anything to do with Bitcoin at that point. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:36.000 But once I did get into Bitcoin about four years later, I was still doing sermon prep as a pastor. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.000 And so one day I was in the book of Galatians. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.000 It's this letter that the apostle Paul wrote I believe from prison. 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.000 And he was just writing to this group of people. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:56.000 And in the very end of the book, right near the end, he basically says that God is not mocked and that what a man sows, that will he also reap. 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:01.000 And so basically he's like this sowing and reaping idea is kind of – we see this within agriculture. 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:02.000 You plant one type of seed. 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:06.000 If you plant an apple seed, you're not going to get a tomato tree. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.000 It's just not how it works. 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:12.000 You sow a certain type of seed and then you get that type of plant back. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.000 And so this is kind of what Paul is trying to communicate. 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.000 And so, again, a lot of the people in our church were new believers. 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:20.000 They were new Christians. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.000 They didn't grow up in a Christian household where these things were obvious. 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:32.000 And so I just remember trying to think of like, OK, how would I rephrase this in a way that would make sense to somebody who doesn't have a lot of history of these things? 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.000 And so I just said, OK. 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:43.000 So Paul is claiming that God has so hardwired this principle of sowing and reaping into the fabric of the universe that to deny that fact is to mock God. 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:49.000 It's just super obvious that God has created a world where you reap what you sow. 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 And so I just started thinking again. 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:57.000 I just was like, OK, well, if this is so obvious, well, then there better be a whole bunch of examples of this that better be pretty clear. 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:00.000 And so I just started thinking like, OK, what are what are some of these examples? 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:08.000 And so the first one that came to mind is from another one of Paul's letters to the churches in Thessalonica, a place in Greece. 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.000 And so they basically said Paul's writing to them. 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:20.000 And he basically says, hey, if these guys, they had they believed in Jesus and they got to the point where they're like, hey, we believe Jesus is coming back in our lifetimes. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.000 And so we're just going to stop working. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:23.000 We're going to stop working. 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.000 We're just going to, you know, just get ready for Jesus. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.000 We're going to tell people about him, whatever. 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:35.000 And and so the apostle Paul responds to them and says, listen, if one isn't willing to work, then neither should he eat. 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.000 And I just remember thinking, oh, yeah. 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:42.000 So he's Paul saying that there's a relationship between the energy that you get from food. 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.000 He's saying it's designed to be stewarded for the service of others. 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:51.000 And so if you're not willing to acknowledge that relationship between food and work, then you shouldn't eat. 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:55.000 And if you continue that that relationship for long enough, if you don't eat for long enough, what's going to happen? 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.000 You're going to die. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:04.000 And so, like, there's a real sense in which we're alive in order to work, to serve our own families and other people, to love our neighbors in that way. 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.000 And so I just started thinking of just trying to think of a whole bunch of them. 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:12.000 There's a God has a logic and an order for a whole host of things. 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:18.000 And so as I got to the as I got to the end, I was like, started to think to myself, well, man, this after thinking of all these different examples, 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:25.000 I thought, man, it would be really cool as a pastor if there was one of these that, you know, culminated in Jesus, because this is how Christians do things. 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.000 You know, Jesus is the capstone for a lot of the way. 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:42.000 Exactly. And so I started thinking about the nature, really the nature of sin within Christianity and how it contrasts to the, for example, specifically the Islamic understanding of sin. 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:47.000 So within Islam, they don't understand and they don't believe that Jesus had to die. 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.000 They basically just basically know Allah and their conception. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:55.000 God can just forgive sins. He can just kind of papally declare sins are forgiven. 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.000 There doesn't need to be a payment for sins. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:05.000 Yeah. And so so basically they don't understand this, whereas within Christianity, like the Bible says the soul that sins must die. 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:15.000 Like every like the only way to get rid of sin, which scripture frequently refers to and compares with debt, is to have somebody actually pay the debt. 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:24.000 And so this is why Jesus and the Christian conception of these things had to die, was to pay for the sins of the world, pay for sins that was committed. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:37.000 And so it was a way for these this objective sin debt to be paid in a way that still allows me and us as humans to, you know, to to not have to endure the penalty for sins ourselves. 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:43.000 You know, we basically Jesus takes our debt. He pays it for us and then we're able to go free. 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:50.000 And so one of the things that hit me with this is I was trying to, you know, thinking through these things as I contrasted that with thinking about fiat currency, 00:13:51.000 --> 00:14:03.000 which fiat currency fundamentally gives governments and central banks the ability to create money out of thin air with no, no, very little, effectively no production costs. 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.000 So basically governments and central banks are able to reap where they haven't. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:12.000 So we're able to deny it functionally, at least in the in the short term. 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.000 They deny this principle of sowing and reaping. They just basically say, hey, that's no big deal. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:26.000 That is just money we owe ourselves. You know, all these things, currency, we can create reality out of thin air in ways that benefit us, which is what fiat currency does. 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:32.000 It always benefits the rich and the powerful, the connected over against the poor and the weak. 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:42.000 And so this again, I just saw the contrast between these two systems, the world that God made in the world that central bankers and governments are increasingly making. 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.000 And I just thought, man, these two things are you can't like these two things are completely at odds with each other. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:00.000 And so if that's true and it is, then the downstream consequences of this are very problematic and horrible, not just physically for the people who are living in the world experiencing them. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:10.000 They're also horrible spiritually in terms of people's relationship with God, in terms of just denying and ignoring the way that God has actually designed the world to operate. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:18.000 And so, again, this is one of these things where people from the beginning have always tried to set aside God's design for the world and establish their own. 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.000 And this fiat currency is just the latest instantiation of this. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.000 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:33.000 J.D., what for you connects Bitcoin and Christianity? 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:41.000 Why are these things interesting as as they seemingly separate topics? 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:44.000 Why are they so interesting? What's the what is it about fiat? 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.000 What is about Bitcoin? What is about Christianity? 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:53.000 Let me know if my mic sounds OK. It's like right here under the screen. 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:58.000 I mean, I'm on my my remote set up today with the iPhone and the mic here. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:06.000 But. I guess what's the the key pieces, like what makes these two things interesting? 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.000 I think it's kind of what big picture Jordan. 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000 I think big picture is kind of what just Jordan said. Right. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.000 And it's stuff I've even dealing with in my own life of like you reap what you sow. Right. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:25.000 And I think it's a hard pill to swallow as the head of the household, as a husband, when there's disarray in your family. 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.000 It's your fault. Period. Doesn't matter. 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:36.000 And as the husband, that's a tough thing for me to constantly remind myself of because it's like, you know, what am I do? 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:43.000 I have done something wrong that has. Led this entire thing astray. 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:53.000 And. I think what makes that interesting is the. 00:16:53.000 --> 00:17:02.000 Capacity for redemption, but it goes to what Jordan was just saying through through sacrifice, something must be paid, you know. 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:08.000 Bitcoin is a almost near perfect money because it. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:14.000 Obeys the laws of physics because it obeys truth. 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.000 You know, truth is is binary. 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:24.000 Something is true or it is not true. You are moving or you are not moving. 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:32.000 Like there is no, you know, they're not moving is a state, but you cannot be not moving and also moving. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.000 The only thing that can be not moving, but also moving is time. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:41.000 Right, because like technically, you know, it is just a it is just a momentum. 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.000 It is a constant thing. It's like it never changes because it's always going one second at a time. 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:51.000 So technically it's not moving, but it's like but it is moving because it has a constant. Right. 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:05.000 And so. What is interesting about all of that and kind of like landing it on here is the. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:13.000 The most unique thing about humanity is the fact that we are the only species that has stories. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:20.000 And the interesting thing about Bitcoin is Bitcoin is a. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:31.000 Near perfect way for storytelling to be decentralized in a way that. 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:42.000 No one can argue with it for potentially 100 to 200 years and storytelling specifically on the monetary sense, right, and the value sense, like I'm not saying, you know, 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:46.000 I'm 100 percent against ordinals and all those other things. Right. 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:56.000 But the store of value piece here, it's like, hey, you know, this person has one hundred thousand, ten, one half, whatever it is. 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:07.000 The story there is they did some work, they took some risk, they took a chance to acquire a thing, Bitcoin, and everyone can see that. 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:21.000 And now that can further their story in the greater story of humanity in a way that's really interesting, because the only other thing that has ever done that ever in a decentralized manner is Bible. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:38.000 The Bible is the only set of stories or the only, you know, ledger, if you will, of truth that has been decentralized for millennia and yet been constantly corroborated over and over and over and over again. 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:53.000 We can argue about translations, we can argue about, you know, some of the minute details, but it is the only document that was protected by a 51 percent attack because it was decentralized. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:03.000 I once saw the Dead Sea Scrolls thing here in Southern California, and one of the things that they talked about was the fact that they found the scrolls in a destroyed Jerusalem in the walls. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:08.000 Right. They found it like by the Dead Sea and all these little caverns distributed. 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:15.000 It's like they didn't put all of it into one cavern. It was like thousands of caverns all the way in the back, like buried. 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.000 They decentralized the ledger, they distributed amongst a bunch of different places so that we could be protected. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:34.000 And so. When a truth is so important that it requires or rather it would warrant that amount of care to protect. 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:50.000 It's important, and that's why landing the plane Bitcoin is important in my mind, because even this opportune stuff that's going on right now is actually important because it changes the nature of what Bitcoin is and what we're trying to do. 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:56.000 Like, are we trying to create a distributed database that I can store the Bible on? 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000 I mean, people have stored Bible verses on there. 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:05.000 And I think people have said, like Luke himself has, like, you know, inscribed or rather, you know, put Bible verses in the opportune. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:10.000 Right. I think you need to know his address. I don't know anybody who's people's addresses, but unless they like signed it. 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:20.000 But the moral of the story here is it's like. The nature of what we're trying to do, excuse me, with Bitcoin and why it's so interesting is. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:28.000 It's the first time we're trying to democratize. Truth and decentralized truth. 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:35.000 In the context that we as humans can understand it and what that context is, is the ownership of a thing. 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:42.000 And in this particular case, that thing is a UTXO or that thing is a key that goes into a wallet that has some Bitcoin. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.000 That is a store of value that you can use to trade for things. 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:55.000 So very long winded. But I think that's the thing that I find the most interesting and unique is like Bitcoin warrants so much care because it protects so much value. 00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:02.000 And the same way that the Bible warrant had so much care to protect and maintain throughout the millennia because it protects so much value. 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:10.000 Eternity, in my mind, is the most valuable thing. Bitcoin, in my mind, is probably the second most valuable thing in terms of worldly things. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:20.000 So anyways. Yeah, the idea that the Bible is a distributed truth and then the nature of truth itself. 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:27.000 Well, it's like, well, something is either true or it's not true. If it's true, well, then it's universally true. 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.000 Like even if it's a it's a very specific thing. Well, it's that specific thing exists in a context. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:38.000 And for all the same context that that specific thing is always going to be true, like universally. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:44.000 If it if there was no universal truth, well, then there's no truth because relativism and blah, blah, blah. 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:50.000 There's a there is a universal, ever present truth. Right. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:57.000 And when you start when you talk about decentralization. What are we talking about here? 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:03.000 What's the end state of decentralization? There's a there's an ongoing discussion about what is, quote, unquote, decentralized. 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:11.000 Well. What's that will be that like the ultimate decentralization would be universal, it's universal. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:24.000 Bitcoin being, oh, the more decentralized it gets, the more universal it gets, the more centralized it gets, the more fungible, the more changeable, the more mutable it gets. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:33.000 So there's an interesting overlap there. In terms of Bitcoin and Bitcoin and Christianity. 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:47.000 There's. So many other things that are exactly like that, Jordan, you just wrote another book that basically kind of outlined that entire case of all of these different things that are. 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:59.000 And. I don't know if you want to talk about that for a little bit, but like there are so many things, there are so many overlaps, there's so many weird things that are like, oh, yeah, this is you thought you knew this, but hold on. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:10.000 Yeah, I mean, here's here's one example. So in this at least, I mean, if you if you're if you're a Christian, so what are the there's a couple ways in which the Bible argues that just seem really weird on the surface. 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:20.000 So one of them is basically you have the the apostle Paul. He's talking about marriage and he basically says marriage is a mystery. 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:25.000 And he basically says, you know, this this union that happens between a man and a woman. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.000 You have these two people who they're separately prior to getting married. 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.000 There are two separate people. And then when they get married, they come together and they become one person. 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:41.000 And this is this is true in a whole bunch of different ways. Like you are not the same. I'm not the same person I was 15 years ago when I when I got married. 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:46.000 I'm a very different person. And so there's like a whole bunch of ways in which you you fundamentally change. 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:58.000 And the apostle Paul is describing this. And he says he basically says, hey, I'm I'm telling you that marriage like the origin for marriage is coming from Christ in the relationship between Christ and the church. 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:05.000 Which is this really weird thing, because our initial thing is our initial reflex is to think, no, no, no. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.000 OK, so God created human marriage between a man and a woman. 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.000 And then the church, which in our experience of this comes into existence thousands of years later. 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:23.000 Like this, this has like he's using basically this physical reality as a pattern upon which to create this new spiritual reality. 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:31.000 And the apostle Paul goes, no, no, no. It's actually the exact opposite of that, because God had this pattern of like what of like the crisis in the church. 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.000 He had this pattern from from before the foundation were before the world was ever made. 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.000 And so this same thing is also talked about. You have fatherhood talked about in the same way. 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:47.000 He the apostle Paul describes God as the father from whom every family in heaven and earth is named. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.000 So like where do we get this idea of family? Well, God, you know, God is a father. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.000 He tells us to call him a father. He's and he's always existed. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.000 So there's this spiritual, eternal, you know, blueprint that then God creates a physical version of that we experience. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.000 And then obviously, on top of that, there's there's other things. 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:15.000 So this idea of spiritual, eternal blueprint that we have a physical instantiation of like this is this is how reality works. 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.000 And so I think the same thing is true of money. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.000 And I'm like working. I've got another book in process. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.000 The writing of books will never will never come to an end. 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:29.000 But where I'm just like trying to map this out of like money is not just this thing that people just come up with. 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:36.000 Like money is this eternally, again, blueprinted thing that we have physical analogs of. 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:43.000 But one of the examples that you have of this is like one of the examples that you have of this is money itself. 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:55.000 And so one of the things that was crazy to me as I got into Bitcoin was just thinking about and just seeing how many things are within Bitcoin that just point to like spiritual truth and point to specifically Christian Christian truth. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:04.000 And so the one that I always share with people, the one that I always the one that I always mentioned is one day I had I tried to send a Bitcoin transaction. 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:06.000 I was running out the door. I sent it real quick. 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:08.000 I'd only been in Bitcoin for six months. 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000 I sent this transaction. There was like no fees needed at that point. 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:19.000 So I did like the bare minimum fee payment or whatever and then ran out the door, forgot about it. 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:23.000 Two weeks later, I checked my wallet and the transaction hadn't gone through. 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.000 And so I just was like, oh, no, I broke Bitcoin. 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.000 And so crazily at this point, I guess it was more like nine months. 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.000 So nine months in, I had become friends with Jimmy Song. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.000 And so I just texted Jimmy and I was like, Jimmy, I broke Bitcoin. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.000 What did I do? What do I do to fix this? 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.000 He goes, no, you didn't break Bitcoin. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.000 He's like, all you need to do is a child pays for parent transaction. 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.000 And I was like, great. 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.000 What does that mean? 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.000 So he goes, OK, so what you did is you sent you tried to send money. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.000 You didn't include enough of a fee for the transaction to be included in the block. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.000 So all you have to do is send another identical transaction and just include more of a fee. 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:03.000 And it won't send two transactions. 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000 It'll actually just send like one transaction. 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.000 The initial transaction will get through to its intended destination. 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:11.000 So I tried it and ended up working. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.000 And I was I was kind of just thinking about it and reflecting on it. 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:24.000 It just blew my mind that just to realize that that is the same logic of what of like what of how salvation works in the Christian framework, which is God sends out. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:26.000 He creates people. 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.000 He creates people. 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.000 He designs them to to arrive at a certain, you know, certain destination. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000 We're supposed to live a certain way. 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000 We're supposed to trust him and act in a certain way. 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000 And we fall short of that. 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:43.000 OK, we this is the scriptures talk about falling short of the glory of God for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:49.000 We don't reach this intended, you know, telos, this destination that God designed us to to attain. 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:51.000 And so how does God resolve that? 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.000 Well, he sends the last Adam instead of the first Adam. 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:56.000 He sends the last Adam. 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.000 He sends another transaction, if you will. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.000 And Jesus does live the life that God intended us to live. 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:04.000 He obeys and perfectly and everything. 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000 He trusts his father perfectly and everything. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:19.000 And because of his perfect transaction of his life, we are able to benefit from, you know, from that that perfectly executed transaction and arrive at our intended destination. 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:20.000 Because of him. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:29.000 And so this is so this book that you're referring to, which is right there, the gospel, according to Bitcoin, just just looks at money and Bitcoin in particular. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:44.000 And just said, hey, there's there's tons of like parable like things within Bitcoin and within money itself that are pointing to something far, you know, far more important in lasting and eternal than the money itself. 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:54.000 And so, again, we see all of these things, like everything that exists, whether it's food or drink, whether it's, you know, cameras, computers, these are all communicating things. 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.000 If it's a good thing, it's communicating something about God. 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:02.000 It's committing something, communicating something about the way that God has designed the world to work. 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:08.000 And so we want to just acknowledge those those realities wherever we find them, including in Bitcoin. 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.000 One of the things from the book, by the way, you should guys check out the book. 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.000 It's pretty good. 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:15.000 It's pretty good. 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.000 One of the things I one of the things I loved about the book was the example. 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:29.000 I think Daniel wrote this section, but it was the example of the transaction where Abraham purchases a lot for for Sarah's burial. 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:37.000 And the way that the transaction occurs is that he negotiates the transaction with the owner of the lot. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.000 And then they announce publicly to all the elders. 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.000 That this transaction has taken place. 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.000 I'm now the owner. 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.000 This is how much I paid for it. 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.000 This is the date we paid for it. 00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:01.000 They just lay out all of the transaction details and they broadcast this transaction to all the elders in that village or town or forget the name of the city that it was. 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:01.000 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:02.000 Me, too. 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.000 But that image is like, wait a second. 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.000 That's that. 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:08.000 That's a big. 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.000 That's the exact same as what a Bitcoin transaction does. 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.000 We're just we're just doing it all electronically where you write all the information about the transaction. 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:17.000 Everybody signs it. 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:18.000 So it's all verified. 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.000 And then you send you broadcast the transaction out. 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000 And then everybody now has a copy of the transaction and gets included in the block chain. 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.000 And so now everybody everywhere can just go look and reference. 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:27.000 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.000 Yeah. 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.000 If there's a dispute. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.000 No, this is this is who owns that Bitcoin. 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.000 Yeah, this is when it took place. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:47.000 There's a clear ledger about how you talk about God has designed reality in such a way as a spiritual level before before any of the actual physical manifestation of it. 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:57.000 And here we are getting to live that out and play through these these principles that God has already established and defined in really beautiful ways. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.000 And it's super cool, right? 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:08.000 Because, like, even if you move into the New Testament, you have like you have these guys, the apostles, like they're chosen by Jesus and then sent out by him to communicate his message. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000 And so one of the things you see them doing all the time is just public proclamations. 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.000 Like they're going they're not like communicating these things in secret. 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.000 They're going out and announcing publicly. 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:18.000 This is what we've heard. 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:20.000 This is what we've heard from God. 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.000 This is what he's told us to say. 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:23.000 This is what he's told us to do. 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:24.000 And they do the same thing. 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.000 They're just like completing the same thing. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.000 They're like, hey, we want we want to announce this publicly. 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:30.000 We've seen these things. 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.000 We want to tell as many people as we can. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.000 Like, this is what we've seen. 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.000 This is what we have observed. 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.000 This is what we've heard. 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:49.000 And again, we want to we want to just broadcast it out there on the on the public ledger of your hearts and minds and and just communicate these things that you, you know, you hear them and understand them. 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:58.000 So with that in mind, there's all these connections about between Christianity, the Bible and Bitcoin. 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.000 There's there's all these weird things that are going on. 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.000 And we've just literally only scratched the surface. 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.000 There's so much more just keeps going on and on. 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:05.000 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:06.000 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.000 Now, how does thank God for Bitcoin come about? 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000 How did it come about? 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.000 Why did it come about? 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:14.000 What was the what was the impetus here? 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.000 Like, who who's who's the first idea that this is like? 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.000 And then and then what happened after that? 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.000 Like, how did thank God for Bitcoin become such a voice in this space? 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.000 Yeah. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:37.000 So the I think the three people who are who are given credit or faults, depending on who you are, are Jimmy Song, George McHale, who works for Bitcoin magazine. 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.000 And I can't remember who the third one is. 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.000 There was somebody else. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:41.000 Maybe Brian Harrington. 00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:42.000 I don't think it was him. 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:46.000 But it was there was three people, those three guys. 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:54.000 They basically said, hey, you know, they found out they were Christians and they said, hey, let's do like let's start doing like a Bible study where we study what the Bible says about money. 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.000 And so they started doing that. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.000 They met for a few months. 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.000 And so after a few months, they said, man, this is there's a lot of really interesting stuff here. 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.000 They were also on the Bitcoin. 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.000 And and so they basically said, I think this was during covid time, too. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.000 It was like everyone just kind of online. 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.000 This is a little bit before that. 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.000 So that's how they met and started meeting. 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.000 And then once covid hit. 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.000 Then they basically said, hey, we should do like a book club. 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.000 We got a bunch of time on our hands. 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.000 We should do like a book club. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:30.000 So let's read through a couple of books about money that are either written by Christians or that talk about a Christian perspective. 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000 And so the two books that they chose were one very short book called Honest Money. 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000 It's written like a ninth grade reading level. 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:47.000 It's a great little book written by Gary North, who was the economic policy advisor for Ron Paul during one of his presidential campaigns. 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:56.000 He also was like a big voice within the Mises Institute, but also a Christian theologian, most prolific author about Christians and money ever, basically. 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:58.000 And so he wrote this book. 00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000 We read it. 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:00.000 We thought that was great. 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.000 I got connected to this slightly larger group through just Twitter. 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.000 I got on Twitter and saw this guy talking about Jesus and Bitcoin. 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.000 I thought, wait, I'm not the only one thinking about these things. 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:19.000 And then he invited me to join this telegram group that when I got in there, I look around at the list of people and I see Jimmy, who I didn't know at that point. 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:20.000 I saw Robert Breedlove. 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.000 I was like, whoa, wait, I do know him. 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.000 Like, this is wild. 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.000 So we start reading through these books. 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:31.000 And then the other book that we read was the Ethics of Money Production by another Austrian economist in New York, Guido Halsman. 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:35.000 That one's more of a scholarly book, but it just is a fantastic book. 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.000 So we read through those two things, just talked about them. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.000 And again, met for an hour a week. 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.000 That was all that it was. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000 Finished after two months. 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:50.000 I thought to myself, well, that was the weirdest thing that I've ever done in my life, a Bitcoin Christian book club. 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:53.000 And so when we got done, I just thought that was it. 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:58.000 I went back to my life in lockdown wearing double masks. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.000 No, I'm just kidding. 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.000 So we went back to what I was doing. 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:08.000 And then three weeks later, George reached out to me and said, hey, we really appreciated your contributions to this book club. 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:13.000 And long story short, we're going to write our own book that kind of summarizes what these two books talk about. 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:18.000 But rather than the payoff being what those books is, which is really going back to a gold standard, 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:23.000 we think that we could write the payoff being this is why we should adopt Bitcoin. 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.000 It's why Christians should care about these things. 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:28.000 And so I just basically said, well, dude, I don't have time to write a book. 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.000 I'm a pastor in a small church. 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.000 I've got little kids. 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:36.000 And he basically said, OK, but we're going to work on it one day a week for an hour. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:41.000 And then take a little bit of free time during the week to kind of map this thing out in the beginning. 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.000 And then we'll just kind of go from there. 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:47.000 But it's not going to be a huge time commitment because there's going to be eight of us working on the book. 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.000 So long story short, I ended up doing it. 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:55.000 And about six months later, we published the book right at the beginning of 2021 as the price is pumping. 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.000 And, you know, things were everybody was happy on Bitcoin, Twitter. 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:06.000 And the the response was just nuts because, again, we were we were we had no aspirations of that. 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.000 This was going to be some sort of popular book. 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.000 We were like, hey, us and our moms are going to really enjoy this book. 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.000 It's going to be really cool. 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:17.000 And and then in God's providence, Corey, this is for you. 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.000 The the book came out the same week as the book by the pope. 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:21.000 And we were outselling the pope. 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.000 So he said, take that, Bishop of Rome. 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:24.000 Where are you at, bro? 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.000 You know, this is every partisan's dream. 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.000 And yeah, it was great. 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.000 OK, so that. 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.000 Talks about the origin, I think, of Bitcoin. 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.000 Yeah. What what happened next? 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.000 How did it become an organization? 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:45.000 How did it become essentially like you guys have published a bunch of books now? 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.000 Yeah, two, two books, but two, two more. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.000 But but it's become a call that you're also. 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.000 Yeah, you're you're you're also doing conferences. 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:57.000 You're also doing booths at things like all this stuff. 00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.000 It's really become a thing. 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:03.000 And there's a lot of community and people involved all over the place at this point. 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.000 Yeah. And again, that was surprising. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:14.000 Like most surprising to us was just how many people there were that had had either been thinking about Bitcoin and were Christians and had wanted something like this. 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:24.000 And then, you know, through through their efforts, through a lot of their efforts, just more people who had really wanted to understand these things and really were seeing a lot of the same things. 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.000 Or maybe you saw that something was wrong, but didn't have a didn't know what to didn't know how to describe it or what the reasoning was. 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.000 Because in Thank God for Bitcoin, we only talk about Bitcoin in the last two chapters. 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.000 Much of the book is just unpacking like what is money? 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.000 What is it designed to do? 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:46.000 How does those how does what it's designed to do have downstream effects on our lives spiritually and all kinds of other stuff? 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:55.000 And so for a lot of people, we just have gotten all kinds of just really just mind blowing feedback for us, which is like this book was so helpful in so many ways. 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.000 And I've given out I've given out dozens of copies of this book. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:03.000 And so within within six months of the book coming out, we were hearing all kinds of these stories. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:21.000 And and so about a year after the book came out, my buddy, Oshawa Oshawa, is the the director of Brilliance Labs, which is this nonprofit organization that is leveraging Bitcoin and using Bitcoin all over the world to move to help international missions and the cross-cultural ministry. 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:27.000 He just basically somehow met Jimmy somehow and just basically said, hey, you guys should do like a conference. 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:31.000 You should do like a one day conference, maybe in Miami the day before the big Bitcoin conference. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:35.000 And so, you know, Jimmy was like, hey, let's hop on a call. 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:41.000 So four or five of us hopped on a call and long story short, ended up deciding to do a conference in Miami. 00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:47.000 And we had about six weeks to put it together, which, again, if I knowing what I know now about doing conferences, I would have said we don't have enough time. 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:52.000 Six weeks isn't isn't enough. But again, in God's providence, it was more than enough. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.000 And so we ended up putting together a conference. 00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:05.000 People show up and it was wild. I mean, we had like Tim Tebow came somehow to Blake Masters from Teal Capital, like the head of Teal Capital shows up. 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:10.000 It was just all these random things where we're like, we just couldn't take credit for any of this because we had no clue. 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:16.000 We had no small budget and you just just didn't have any aspirations of greatness. 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:22.000 But just a lot of people showed up. And so in the aftermath of the of the first conference, I was talking to Lyle Pratt. 00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:27.000 It was one of the other authors, I think, for Bitcoin, one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life. 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.000 And he's I was just telling him like we'd come back from Uruguay. 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:36.000 I was I brought my resume to the Bitcoin conference looking for to plan on looking for at least a part time job. 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.000 And Lyle just said to me, I know what you need to do. 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.000 And again, I don't know if you've ever experienced somebody who had a great plan for your life. 00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:47.000 But I was like, oh, really? What's that? 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000 And he just said, I think you should do thank you for Bitcoin full time. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:59.000 And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I think you could do like conferences and, you know, sell sponsorships to the conference and sell tickets. 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:05.000 And and then like write other books and host podcasts and do, you know, do a bunch of these, sell merch, do this kind of stuff. 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.000 I think you could make enough to make it work. And so I just started thinking about it. 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.000 Had another conversation with Oshawa, who is really more focused on the mission side of things. 00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:24.000 And just the need for, you know, both churches and other nonprofit entities, both in the United States and around the world, because, again, they are there. 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:30.000 Nonprofit organizations are much more quickly and drastically affected by currency devaluation. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:41.000 And so to really try to work to help them understand and grok the importance of this before they get absolutely destroyed through losing purchasing power, losing donors because there's not enough. 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.000 You know, people are losing margin to be able to donate to them. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.000 So once you combine those two things, I was much more interested and much more excited about it. 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:55.000 And so long story short, we ended up getting some funding from some of the other authors to thank for Bitcoin and funded almost almost all of it in Bitcoin. 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:01.000 And so we just have kept our entire treasury in Bitcoin and then we just sell some off as we as we need to. 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:06.000 And again, it's been a I mean, we wouldn't we would have had to raise more money by this point if we hadn't done that. 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:13.000 So we're kind of like proving the thesis of Bitcoin, of things being better with Bitcoin. 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:20.000 Indeed. All right. So, JD, maybe you want to answer this, but Jordan, you're welcome to as well. 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:25.000 How did you get involved? How what is your connection to this story? 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.000 Yeah. Outside of making these graphics while you guys were talking, I made these. 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:35.000 We don't normally throw things up on the screen, but I do think both these books are valuable. 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:41.000 So you should get them. And I just figured I'd throw them up there because I have, you know, five seconds to do it. 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:49.000 And the QR code should work. But the TLDR is Pacific Bitcoin. 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.000 R.I.P. in. Hey, man, I hope they bring it back. 00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:00.000 If not, it'd be awesome. Convince Corey to sell us the IP for it or whatever. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:05.000 Or hey, Corey, if you're watching, let us know. Maybe we can take it over for you. 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:17.000 But the first Pacific Bitcoin, which is 2022, I believe, they threw like a side event and they being thank God for Bitcoin 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:23.000 and just happened to like find that side event, go there, meet Jordan, kind of hit it off. 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:31.000 And then kind of like throughout the week ended up like driving you back and forth to your Airbnb a couple of times and just kind of like getting to know you over that. 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.000 But then also just kind of being at that conference and just kind of struck up a friendship. 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:44.000 And then, you know, it was privileged enough for you to kind of bring me out to help with the conference in 2023 in in Miami. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:54.000 You guys went back. And just kind of over the years of just kind of getting to know and kind of like be really good friends with Jordan 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.000 and just also working with thank God for Bitcoin, loving the mission that they're on, loving what they're doing. 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:04.000 We kind of started just, you know, having bigger, longer, deeper conversations, 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:12.000 which ended in us kind of going back and forth on my mid journey account of like, hey, here's some random things that I is doing. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.000 Oh, look at this. It's Will Smith eating spaghetti or whatever it is. 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.000 And classic. Yeah, classic. 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:23.000 Classic pre-slap Will. Pre-slap Will. 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:30.000 Who did look a lot more like the AI generated spaghetti eating Will than the current Will does. 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:31.000 Indeed. 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:39.000 And Jordan, I just remember like getting like a text and it was like, you know, 10 p.m. my time, 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:44.000 which was like 1 a.m. or whatever. I'm like, one, why are you awake? 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.000 Two, he's like, dude, this would be a great book. 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:51.000 And it was it was an orange umbrella with like two little kids kind of standing under it, 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:57.000 which was the original like kind of key art that we use. We were kind of like shopping this around, talking to it. 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:01.000 And just kind of the story kind of started to grip both of us. 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:06.000 And we both like to go down rabbit holes. So we, you know, we both like physics. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.000 So we kind of got in a lot of different moments, like really into the physics of the world. 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.000 But then we also had to step back and be like, who cares? 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:21.000 Nobody cares about some of these things. Like one nerdy person might, but the most won't. 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.000 And then, you know, over the course of the next kind of like two years, we put that together. 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.000 We wrote the entire thing. He flew out to L.A. 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:35.000 And we took like a three day stint and literally just like wrote to the entire thing going back and forth. 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.000 You know, lots of lots of revisions, lots of revs. 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:45.000 I think we did like 30, like 29 or 31 versions of the actual text. 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:52.000 And then and then Jordan took it and did an additional rev to do all the poetry because he's a poet. 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.000 And I actually did not know it. And come on. 00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:01.000 I'm going to do this on pulse. I'm going to do this on pulse. 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:06.000 But no, it was great. And then we unfortunately had the high. 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.000 Unfortunately, we had really high aspirations to try and have somebody do the entire book in watercolor. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:15.000 Right. Because it's rain. We wanted water. We want it to be like really interesting, unique and dynamic. 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:22.000 And we found a phenomenal watercolor artist named Terry, who is in the UK. 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:26.000 He's done a lot of like actually like Bitcoin art, but he was just too busy. 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:32.000 Like he kept getting busy and it was one of those things like pre, you know, the price is also going down at that point in time. 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.000 So it's kind of hard for either of us to be like, oh, we can spend some money. 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.000 But it's like we'd rather buy Bitcoin. So we don't really have any money to spend on this. 00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:45.000 And I just kind of through that period of time ended up having to go through and like find some other artists. 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:55.000 And that didn't really work out. And then come January of this year, Jordan just was like, no, we are finding this artist and making this happen. 00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.000 And then we kind of did a whole Fiverr stint and up work. 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:04.000 And I think we probably were like 20 or 30 different artists there, too. 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:14.000 There were certain moments where we were just like, this would actually probably just be easier to use AI than it would get a person to physically do this. 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:19.000 And then, you know, through through kind of God's providence, like a friend of a friend of a friend, 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:24.000 I think that Jordan knows is like, hey, I know this girl named Karis. 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.000 She might be able to help you out. And she's been a dream. 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:33.000 She's phenomenal. Like the artwork in this book, like Jordan, you can probably go on and on about it, too. 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:36.000 But yes, it's pretty stellar. It's pretty spectacular. 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:42.000 Yeah, I think I mean, the thing that for me was the wildest in terms of just, again, the backtrack a little bit, like meeting J.D. 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:46.000 Again, you have people who you just meet and you just click with them. 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.000 And J.D. and I just met at this conference out of nowhere. We started talking for five minutes. 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.000 We ended up getting shoved in an Uber with Zuby together somehow. 00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:59.000 And like J.D.'s cousin is like a semi pretty well-known person on social media. 00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:03.000 And so she had interacted with Zuby. And so it was like all these random things. 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:07.000 And then again, usually you have like conferences or like camp. 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.000 OK, like you meet people at conferences. You're like, oh, like we're really good friends. 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:16.000 And then you go home and you never talk to each other or until the next camp or the next conference. 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:22.000 But J.D. and I pretty much talk like every day for like three months after we after that conference. 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.000 It was the weirdest thing. I'll still never forget him. 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:30.000 I'll still never forgive him. 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:36.000 I'll still never forgive him for not forcing me to buy a box of Series 1 Bitcoin trading cards. 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:41.000 You can buy it off me. Chester set the floor, 0.3 Bitcoin. 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.000 It's ready to be. Chester, if you're watching, I'm with you, brother. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:50.000 So, yeah, the last box was like 500 bucks. I could have bought two or three of them for 500 bucks each. 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.000 And then three months later, they're all selling for $5,000. I was like, why? 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.000 So we just became really good friends. And again, J.D. is completely different than I am. 00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.000 All the complete polar opposite skills. 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:08.000 And what probably I mean, legitimately one of the hardest workers I've ever seen and met in my life, 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:14.000 just constantly working hard, constantly just trying to do right by people. 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:19.000 And so I just, again, just really just found myself wanting to spend time with them, wanted to want to work with them. 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:25.000 And then again, J.D. in a previous life worked on the first two seasons of the show Rick and Morty. 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:32.000 And I had a whole bunch of, you know, just a great more storied history and entertainment and actually getting projects across the line. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.000 I'm good at like starting projects. J.D. is really good at like finishing them and getting them across the line. 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:45.000 And so I just realized, yeah, I need somebody who has those instincts and skills and abilities to if this thing's going to actually get done. 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:51.000 And so it ended up I couldn't have asked for a better a better teammate in getting this thing across the line. 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:56.000 So. Oh, shucks. No, but I appreciate it. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.000 Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the book internally. 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.000 What what is this book about? Was I mean, the idea came from a picture. 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:10.000 Yeah. Of an umbrella. But how does this relate to Christian Christianity? 00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:16.000 I know you guys have said that there's a lot in common here. So what's the. 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:22.000 Yeah. I mean, the first thing that I would say is kind of like it really does kind of at least at least conceptually. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:29.000 So thank God for Bitcoin exists for three reasons, like primarily to minister and like to to serve three audiences. 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:35.000 The first one is just like Christian Bitcoin. These are the only psychos who are going to pay for who are going to pay us to be able to continue to do this. 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:40.000 So they're a smaller group, obviously smaller subset of Bitcoin. 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:46.000 Bitcoin is more broadly. But again, they're like, hey, these are these are our people who are really into what we're doing. 00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:52.000 So they're we're going to try to create stuff for them. But then beyond that, it's it's Christians who aren't Bitcoiners yet. 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:57.000 Like we you know, we are Christians. We think that, you know, this is the most important message in the world. 00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:04.000 And we think that, you know, money and the devaluation of currencies is going to really have a horrible effect. 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:09.000 And it is having horrible effects on people who are trying to communicate that message all across the world. 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:14.000 So that that's the second group. That's the largest group, but the least interested in what we're doing. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:22.000 And then the third group is people who are into Bitcoin, who are fully on Bitcoin, but who don't yet see the value of Jesus. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:30.000 And so and who may never see the value of Jesus. But so it was one of these things where, again, just as we do what we do, as we put together conferences, 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:37.000 we think about inviting speakers, we keep all three of those audiences in mind and make our decisions through that framework. 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:41.000 And so very much it wasn't necessarily purposefully this way. 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:45.000 We didn't like set out to write a book that would have that would be cool for all three of those groups. 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:54.000 But about half, you know, at least partially part of the way through, we just realized, man, this is this is like a really good standalone, 00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:00.000 a really good standalone story that even if you know nothing about Bitcoin or nothing about you didn't care about this at all. 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.000 We don't use the word Bitcoin in the book. And that was purposeful. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000 But even if you didn't know anything or care anything about Bitcoin, this book is still great. 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:17.000 It's still a really cool story. But if you do, if you're into Bitcoin, then you're really going to like this story because there's a ton of Easter eggs in the text. 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:29.000 And in some of the again, the characters themselves that are just they're full of like Bitcoin Twitter meme things and all these all these different things that you're really going to appreciate. 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:39.000 And then on top of that, again, if you're if you're a Christian and into Bitcoin, there's other things that you're going to really recognize and and be really stoked out about as well. 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:44.000 So. So, yeah, in terms of the actual the actual story, it's really like an island. 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:49.000 It's just a pretty simple story of an island where it never rains, but everybody carries an umbrella. 00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:54.000 And so, again, it's a place where it rained one time a way long time ago. 00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:01.000 It was super traumatic to the point that everybody was like, we need to we need to create umbrellas to protect ourselves from from the rain. 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:05.000 In the beginning, there was only one initial umbrella. It was a golden umbrella. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.000 And so everybody kind of hid underneath that one. But in the aftermath of the storm. 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:18.000 In the aftermath of the storm, like 10 years goes by. And so, again, it's one of these things where people they're like, we need umbrellas. 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:26.000 Let's make umbrellas. But they started arguing all the different people who lived on this island started arguing about what should the umbrella look like? 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:29.000 What strength should it have? What weaknesses? You know, this kind of stuff. 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:35.000 And so over time, even though they all they all they all recognize we need umbrellas, they kind of took different approaches. 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.000 And so there were people who wanted umbrellas like this and umbrellas like that or umbrellas like this. 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:43.000 And then on top of that, it also became because of the differences of opinion that they had. 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:49.000 They just started arguing about it. And so they ended up all going their separate ways and each working on their own umbrellas. 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:53.000 So you've got these different characters who have different umbrellas that, you know, 00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:06.000 that have different strengths and that are designed to do different things based on that specific person's perceptions of the dangers of a storm that the storm would bring when it when it comes. 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:15.000 Love it. Yes. J.D. J.D., what's your what's your inspiration for this? 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:21.000 Where do you where do you come up with the ideas and what gets you excited about this project? 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Yeah, I think what was the most I love. So one thing that I've done quite a bit of I've actually done, I think, Steve, you've been in some of them, Jordan, and a bunch of them. 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:38.000 But I do these writers rooms where I take the process from Rick and Morty, which is the Dan Harmon story circle. 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:41.000 If you're not familiar with it, it's basically the hero's journey about a circle. 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:46.000 But that's what Dan used to break every episode of community, every episode of Rick and Morty. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:55.000 And that's it's a very simple method for making sure your story has all the pieces of a story. 00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:00.000 Right. Like at the end of the day, if you have a math equation, you need X plus Y equals Z. 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000 Right. You need to have or equals or whatever. Right. You need to have all the different components. 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.000 If you're going to bake a cake and you have the flour, you have the sugar, you have vanilla, you do have like the recipe. 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:13.000 And so this framework, because that's what it is, is actually what I find the most exciting. 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:26.000 Like, I really love the like creation and generation and like the teasing out of a story and trying to then kind of put it into a box. 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:34.000 Like my my key things are like, you know, competition, significance, activating and ideation are like my top things on like strings finders. 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:47.000 But I really love that ideation piece of things, because if you can find a way to tie disparate things together in a surprising and fun way, you can move somebody in a direction. 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:50.000 Didn't expect. And that's actually what this entire story did. 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:58.000 It was a lot of discussion on, you know, should it be an island? Should there be a multiple island? Should there be you know, should it be a tall island? 00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:05.000 Should be a case would be like, you know, just kind of going in there and really kind of digging into the core of the story, I think was the most exciting part for me. 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:14.000 And then just, you know, doing the whole Apple thing of like simplify, simplify, simplify, just like simplifying it to the point where you're like, OK. 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:21.000 This is actually what we need to actually say to actually make people understand and care. 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:28.000 And for the most, you know, the biggest piece of this is also than having something that I can go like read with my kids. 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:34.000 The book is probably a little older than, you know, you're one, two and three year old. 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.000 It's probably more like a six and seven and maybe even a little bit older. 00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:42.000 Like it's definitely still something like high school kids can find interesting, especially with like the poetry. 00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:47.000 And then like the bigger concepts are like high school kids. It's like, OK, so the rain is inflation. 00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:51.000 It's like, you know, some of these bigger concepts, they're not really going to get. 00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:59.000 But I think what's really cool is, you know, kind of in the Shrek aspect of it where it's like we don't have like tongue in cheeky jokes in it because it's not the place for it. 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:04.000 But like these bigger concepts in this kid's story, I think is really cool and really universal. 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:09.000 So the other thing that's cool is also, you know, getting to work with Jordan, getting to work with Karis is a great artist. 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:14.000 And then also, you know, all these ancillary things that we're looking to do, too, because like making physical things is just fun. 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:18.000 So it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, I think one of the yeah. 00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:28.000 One of the things for me, like one of the things that came out that really I flew out to L.A. to do like this, you know, two or two or three day. 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:34.000 You just like sprint to try to get this book done in terms of the the structure of it. 00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:40.000 And then we would kind of I would kind of go and just try to do the poetry and actually the lines of the book. 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:47.000 And so one of the things that was crazy is like we went and we'd done a number of things over the phone, had a pretty good idea. 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:53.000 But like as we started to talk about it, first of all, like we were we were at J.D.'s house. 00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:56.000 And what was going on? Something is going on with your with your kid. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:03.000 I can't remember what's going on. And we just we just didn't get we didn't end up getting anywhere near as much time as we thought we were going to get. 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:07.000 And it was one of these things where you're just like, oh, man, we flew out here to do that. 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.000 I flew here to do this thing. And it ended up being like perfect. 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:15.000 Like I get to spend time with his family, get to meet his kids and his wife and just like hang out. 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:20.000 And so it just was one of these things where it's like we never would have if we would have if you would have told us in advance, 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:26.000 we're literally going to get probably four cumulative hours to work or four or five cumulative hours to work on this thing. 00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:30.000 We would never have signed up for it. And yet it was it was phenomenal. 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.000 And when we were doing it and most of it was on like the last day that I was there. 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:40.000 So then as we're working, like one of the things that I didn't realize was like I had like. 00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:45.000 Because like some of these ideas I had been thinking about for a year and I had like so personalized, 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:49.000 they were so like personal to me that like J.D. is like suggesting changing some of them. 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.000 And I'm like getting like emotionally frustrated. I'm like. 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:58.000 And so really the thing that hit me as we were sitting there trying to work out some of these things in like getting, 00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.000 you know, J.D.'s like trying to reason with a crazy person. 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:03.000 And I'm sitting there trying to be like, dude, no, we're not changing that. 00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:14.000 Like there's no way it just hits me that we're just like the umbrella people in the book who had like they wanted the arguing about creating umbrellas. 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:19.000 They had their certain like their own individual conceptions of what the umbrella should look like. 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:23.000 And and they ended up splitting up because they couldn't actually work together. 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.000 And when that reality hit me, I was like, holy crap, like this is. 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.000 We got a lot more work after that time. So we did. 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.000 No, for real, because it was just like it humbled. 00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:39.000 I mean, at least I might like it humbled me of just being like, oh, man, this this isn't just a book. 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:48.000 Like literally there's there's bigger, bigger picture principles here that are just super, I mean, just super close to home. 00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:51.000 They're hitting really close to home even now as we're as we're writing this thing. 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:55.000 And so I think like that's the that's the bigger thing. 00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:00.000 Like it's it's not we're not we didn't set out with all these dramatic, you know, highfalutin desires. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:06.000 But at the end of the day, like the end product of the book, like it really it really just kind of hits. 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:08.000 I get goosebumps every single time I get to the end of the book. 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:17.000 I've read it a hundred times, like every single time, just because it really does touch on these really just close to home themes. 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:22.000 So I think I think the biggest thing, too, is, you know, because one of the things that I was actually preempted about was like the rhyming. 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:25.000 I said, no, I was like, that's stupid. 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:28.000 I literally was like, dude, nobody's going to care. It doesn't really matter. 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:39.000 It's not a it's not a big deal. And I'm royally humbled because I do think you did a phenomenal job of kind of like getting in there and, you know, using your poetry of war. 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:44.000 I'm kidding. But, you know, using your your really. 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:48.000 You know, well honed and articulate. 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:53.000 You know, form of poetry, because I don't even know what you would call like the way you do prose. 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:59.000 Like you have a very specific style of prose and it works, like even in the little excerpts you've been sharing with folks. 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:03.000 Like I'm excited for people to kind of like see this bigger thing. 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:10.000 And then also, you know, I think one of the other things that was cool because we had, you know, in that like back and forth. 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:17.000 So I think I was pretty aggressive. I think I was pretty aggressive also in some of my I don't want to change this kind of things. 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:27.000 But I think, you know, it's a cool process because I think that's one thing that's really tough for the current generation is like the creative process is messy. 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:30.000 It's hard. It's like, you know, whenever you're birthing anything. 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:36.000 And so it's really, you know, it was a it was a cool process to kind of go through and be like. 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:41.000 Are we really going to argue about this? Yeah. Yeah. 01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:51.000 And I think the other thing, too, the thing that just over and over again, the thing that just stopped me in my tracks is there were things that J.D. would bring up that at first blush. 01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:57.000 I was like, no way. And then like he would. It wasn't just like it wasn't just like I just came to the rules. 01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:02.000 And I'm like, oh, he's just brilliant. But like he would actually he would like flesh it out. 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:06.000 We get down the road and I would just be like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, he's totally right. 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:10.000 How in the world didn't I see that before? Like I was. He's totally right as far. 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:16.000 And so it just was this this again, it was like it was a respect thing of just like. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:22.000 Yeah, because it's like we it was just a mutual respect thing of like, dang, like this guy from my perspective, he's done this. 01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:29.000 He's worked for Apple. He's worked for Toyota. He's worked for all the some of the biggest, most powerful companies on Earth. 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:37.000 And it's they're not just out there to what's a what's it called? Diversity hiring. 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:42.000 He's really good president. He's he's really good at what he does. 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:47.000 He's really good at it. And so, like, again, like that's the book never would have gotten done. 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:52.000 Never. And it would be it would have been a worse story in a hundred ways if it wasn't for him. 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:57.000 So, again, can you confirm the wallet address? I need to send this check to you. 01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:02.000 No, but honestly, that I I appreciate those very it's very, very sweet. 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:08.000 But I also think, yeah, no, it's like I could go back and go back and forth on the gravy train of love. 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:14.000 But I do I do actually want to go, you know, because I do have to jump here in a minute. 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:24.000 But I want to give the the. I think the most important thing you said in there is actually the the key to any creative process is respect. 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:31.000 Hmm. Because I had to check myself a bunch of times. I'm like, dude, this doesn't do doesn't know what he's talking about. 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.000 And I'm sure there's moments when I do this and know what he's talking about. Yeah. 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:41.000 And then I had to check myself and be like, hang on. Like, what is what is founding that? 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:46.000 Presupposition that you have, what is founding that that that belief that's making your inner voice say that? 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:51.000 Yeah. And then it's like, oh, it's just my pride or my hubris because I like this idea or I like whatever. 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:54.000 And it's like, yeah, well, that's not that doesn't mean he doesn't was talking about. 01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:59.000 That means that you just like this thing that you're you're you know, he's suggesting be removed. 01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:02.000 And then it's like nine times out of 10. Yeah, he's actually right. That's a stupid idea. 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:05.000 OK, go to the next one. And so I think that's the thing about the whole creative process. 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:12.000 And why I was so, so awesome to work with you, too, is like I have such massive respect for you and for your your, like, 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:21.000 capacity for communication and your just like linguistic prowess that whenever you made a suggestion about like, well, maybe we should do this. 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:26.000 And I'm like. I don't agree, but let me play it out. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:32.000 And then, like, usually nine times out of 10, we get like three or four pages later and I'm like, oh, he tied that back in. 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:36.000 I was like, I was actually really great. And so it's like, you know, I think it's just really hard. 01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:43.000 It's really hard when you're, you know, starting any new type of venture to like fully let go. 01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:51.000 But I would say it's like if you can do that for anybody who's watching and you're just kind of about to start something with someone who you've never worked with before. 01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:56.000 Just remind yourself that you're stupid and that whoever you're working with is probably also stupid. 01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.000 But like collectively, you'll get it there if you really wanted to get there. 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:06.000 And it comes out great. It's great. I think I honestly like this is one of the coolest things I think I've done in the last, you know, decade. 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.000 So I'm very excited to get in people's hands. Well, yeah. 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:14.000 Speaking speaking for Jordan, you can go ahead. But this is real quick. 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:24.000 What I was going to say is like the thing that again, as you're thinking about this, like you can there's like this state saying it's like if you want to go quickly, go. 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:27.000 It's like if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. 01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:32.000 Yeah. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And that's that's 100 percent what what I've experienced. 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:36.000 And I think I think about this in like denominate Christian denominational terms. 01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:49.000 Like there's there's so much like it's super easy just to divide and fracture in order to have just to maintain you getting everything you think is is right or everything you think is, you know, what you what you want to have within a group of people. 01:05:49.000 --> 01:06:05.000 And yet like there's something so beautiful and something much more real and permanent when, again, it's like unity does not come from just from uniformity, where it's like this is a real costly unity, like us being together and us working together on this. 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:16.000 Like it was costly, like it cost us time. It cost us, you know, working hard and like spending much more time and energy than it would have if we just would have written this thing by ourselves. 01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:26.000 But the the end product is just going to be I just think people are going to be really excited and I hope blown away by it. 01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:39.000 Yeah, I think it's great. I think, you know, I think the artwork, too, is just like a constant thing. I'm just like, yeah, she just nailed it. I remember when you said the thing, just like, yeah, this is ours. 01:06:39.000 --> 01:07:05.000 Yeah, it's just great. It's all hand drawn to like, you know, I say, Nope, text that way. I like, you know, human, human fortitude. That's right. Hard, hard one. So that's, that's no, no AI rhyming. No air rhyming. Let's get all that's all very, very jam. 01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:22.000 Yeah, yeah. So guys, where you guys are in a campaign right now to to get this book published, right? And yep, where can people get the book? Where can they get more information about you guys? What's the what are all the links? What are all the download the QR code? 01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:48.000 Yeah, scan the QR code right there on the screen. If you for anyone on audio, for anyone on audio or to the blind, you can go to tou.tgfb.com and go find it there. And then and then the braille version is not in this first edition set. So please let us know if you have a good blind artist. 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:50.000 That would be incredible. 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:55.000 I'm just thinking of Robin Hood men in tights now and Blinken sitting on the anyways. 01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:11.000 Yeah, so you can find it there. We have like a whole bunch of we again, we probably overdid it in terms of offering options. So we've got a paperback version, we've got a normal hardcover, you've got a premium hardcover, let's say I got like sewn bindings and super good quality paper. 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:40.000 Then we've got again, we were working with Lena from the little hodler to do like a little orange umbrella man hodler thing, get like poster prints, we got a whole bunch of things. So the goal is the goal is to raise as of the other day was point one one Bitcoin. We're over I think we're like 5055% funded. So in only seven days, we've got, we've got about 3031 days, 32 days left. So we'd really appreciate your help and getting across the line. 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.000 Yeah, it's exciting. We're super stoked. 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:55.000 Yeah, so that again, that's to you dot tf tg.com to you dot tg fb.com. Oh, gosh, I messed it up. 01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:16.000 All right, go you the orange umbrella. tg fb. Thank God for Bitcoin.com. Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. Well, Jordan, JD, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for the thanks for the intro. Thanks for all your work in the space. And we will be seeing you around. So appreciate you, bro. Good to see you. 01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:18.000 Thanks. 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:38.000 Thanks for tuning into better by Bitcoin. Bitcoin makes everything better. Like subscribe and follow us on x at better by BTC YouTube at better by Bitcoin, not financial advice, mathematical certainty.