1 00:00:10,759 --> 00:00:14,599 this is parenting for the everyday a 2 00:00:12,799 --> 00:00:17,080 podcast dedicated to meeting parents in 3 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:19,240 the trenches of Parenthood we explore 4 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:20,840 how our faith fits into our parenting 5 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:22,960 with the help of our guests we are 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,320 seeking practical tips on how the gospel 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,160 can speak into our day-to-day parenting 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,279 from the easy stuff to the hard stuff we 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,960 want to talk about it all welcome to 10 00:00:29,279 --> 00:00:33,120 parenting for the every day I'm Holly D 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,960 kju and I'm Becca Alvarez a few weeks 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,960 ago we did an episode on realistic quiet 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,840 times and a conversation that we kept 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,879 having coming out of that was this idea 15 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,079 of letting go of this perfectly bow 16 00:00:41,879 --> 00:00:45,440 wrapped faith and we've kind of come 17 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:47,520 back to it a couple times and talked 18 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,960 about um how do we talk about it on this 19 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,199 podcast in this space and kind of landed 20 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,840 on me walking through maybe our my 21 00:00:52,199 --> 00:00:56,160 infertility Journey um because I feel 22 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,719 like that's really when my faith my bow 23 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,280 shaped Faith really unraveled and so I'm 24 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:02,239 excited to kind of get to share share 25 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,119 that Journey here in this space and kind 26 00:01:02,239 --> 00:01:06,479 of walk through what God taught me and 27 00:01:04,119 --> 00:01:08,640 how he molded me and just all the things 28 00:01:06,479 --> 00:01:09,439 that came uh um through infertility and 29 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,720 through 30 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:14,320 loss and before we even get started I 31 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,960 just want to take a minute and thank you 32 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:19,040 for being willing to talk about this I 33 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:21,680 know that this is something that is near 34 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,680 and dear to your heart and a tender part 35 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,840 of your life that maybe not many people 36 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,880 even know about um I also think this is 37 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,479 a little bit of an interesting topic to 38 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,360 be talking about this time of year but I 39 00:01:31,479 --> 00:01:37,360 felt really passionate about bringing it 40 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,280 into a Christmas time because I think 41 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:42,640 that Christmas can be something that is 42 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,680 so exciting and wonderful but the truth 43 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,640 is that not everyone's lives are in a 44 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,560 season of excitement and wonder and it 45 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,799 can feel really lonely when you're in 46 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,439 that season and you and no one's really 47 00:01:51,799 --> 00:01:57,880 giving you space to be where you are and 48 00:01:55,439 --> 00:02:00,479 I also really feel like it would take a 49 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,039 dimension away from Christmas if we left 50 00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:06,600 that out in the sense that even Mary and 51 00:02:03,039 --> 00:02:09,920 Joseph were in a really lonely time and 52 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:12,280 the end of that story ends well we know 53 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:14,400 it ends well but in the middle when 54 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,360 you're getting shut out of every place 55 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,720 and you are 9 months pregnant and about 56 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,239 to have a baby like you are so lonely 57 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,879 and you are such an outcast and it looks 58 00:02:21,239 --> 00:02:25,599 so different than you thought it would 59 00:02:22,879 --> 00:02:27,879 look and that's really the basis of 60 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:30,640 where we want to start this episode yeah 61 00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:32,720 it's funny cuz um some people know the 62 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:34,840 story cuz I have shared it and then it's 63 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,480 been a while so I think a lot of people 64 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,400 don't necessarily know the road that 65 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,280 I've walked to but my journey to 66 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,040 Parenthood was anything but straight 67 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,640 it's a lot of Curves a lot of windy 68 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,319 roads um my husband and I were diagnosed 69 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:48,480 with unexplained infertility which is 70 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:51,159 the most unhelpful diagnosis you can 71 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,480 receive s it's just no answers and so 72 00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:55,560 you're like what do I do with this um 73 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,879 later we would find out that there is a 74 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,400 genetic abnormal abnormality but that 75 00:02:57,879 --> 00:03:04,080 plays into it but it has been uh 76 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:06,799 Decades of infertility and miscarriages 77 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,879 and I I have had eight miscarriages 78 00:03:06,799 --> 00:03:10,239 which I always hesitate to say that 79 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:12,400 number because everyone always is like 80 00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:14,680 oh um and I'm only saying it because I 81 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,959 just want to like set the stage of like 82 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,560 hey this was really hard and for me it 83 00:03:17,959 --> 00:03:21,440 came in the form of infertility and 84 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,879 miscarriage but for other people loss 85 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,640 comes in different and you don't need to 86 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:26,560 have eight miscarriages to feel the 87 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:29,080 depth of a miscarriage or a loss or 88 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,360 infertility and so just St stating 89 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,080 setting the AG that losses really hard 90 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,239 in whatever for him that that kind of 91 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:39,760 looks like um and the biggest thing is 92 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:42,040 that I feel like I grew up um in church 93 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,799 in a Christian home and somehow along 94 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,239 the way I had this notion in my head of 95 00:03:44,799 --> 00:03:49,080 what a good Christian woman should look 96 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:52,239 like um and at its core it's this belief 97 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:54,400 that she doesn't waver that she's strong 98 00:03:52,239 --> 00:03:56,239 um she probably makes a good casseroll I 99 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:00,040 don't know I still can't do that um 100 00:03:56,239 --> 00:04:01,959 definitely sour dough yes nowadays don't 101 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,360 even know like what is a starter I don't 102 00:04:01,959 --> 00:04:05,760 I don't even know um but yeah and it's 103 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,319 only through like the Journey of 104 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,840 infertility and loss that I came to 105 00:04:07,319 --> 00:04:12,079 realize like how absolutely ridiculous 106 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:15,040 in contrary to what the gospel says that 107 00:04:12,079 --> 00:04:18,840 that notion is and so um yeah we can we 108 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:21,479 can dive into it let's dive so starting 109 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:24,600 kind of at the top and you talked about 110 00:04:21,479 --> 00:04:27,199 having infertility impact your faith how 111 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,479 did it impact your faith yeah in 112 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:31,560 infertility and loss I keep using those 113 00:04:29,479 --> 00:04:33,080 together 114 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,080 I might just say infertility but I mean 115 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,720 loss in there as well I feel like I 116 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,680 could talk about it all day long and I 117 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,160 could never be able to fully summarize 118 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:44,280 what it does to the depths of a woman's 119 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:47,240 Soul um it rocks every part of you um 120 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:50,440 and it really wasn't long into my 121 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:52,240 journey that I started to recognize that 122 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,759 my head and my heart didn't say the same 123 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,320 thing and so I knew in my head that I 124 00:04:54,759 --> 00:04:59,759 should be saying God is good God is 125 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,639 faithful God has a plan I trust this 126 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:04,759 plan he has his best for me um but what 127 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:08,120 my heart was saying is sure God's good 128 00:05:04,759 --> 00:05:12,440 but he's not good to me um and what I 129 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:14,440 felt was forgotten scared unseen Alone 130 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,320 um and there there started to be this 131 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,960 lie that would creep in that if God 132 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,680 really loved me I wouldn't be here you 133 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,560 know if he loves you how could he let 134 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,759 you go through all of this loss and 135 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,000 heartbreak um and and what makes it more 136 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:29,720 complicated is what I said earlier right 137 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,720 it's this idea that like Christians 138 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,199 should they should have a faith that 139 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,759 weathers the storm and can stand in the 140 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:38,759 midst of that and when I didn't on the 141 00:05:36,759 --> 00:05:40,600 outside I'm saying all the right things 142 00:05:38,759 --> 00:05:42,400 but on the inside I'm not feeling these 143 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,199 things so then you add this layer of 144 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,680 guilt that started to creep in of man 145 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:50,479 you're a phony you're a fake um you 146 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,800 don't have a real Faith as what kind of 147 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:53,560 Christian are you that as soon as it 148 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,720 gets tough you fall apart and you've got 149 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,880 questions um and you're doubting God's 150 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,639 faithfulness to you and so then on top 151 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,479 of the loss and pain you've got this 152 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:04,639 guilt and shame that the enemy just 153 00:06:01,479 --> 00:06:06,759 weaves into into a into a mess and 154 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:08,759 isolation I would assume because 155 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:11,160 especially if you're presenting one way 156 00:06:08,759 --> 00:06:13,080 and feeling it another way you can only 157 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:17,080 do that for so long before you just 158 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:21,360 start to not show up anymore yep 159 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:23,960 yep um how how do you reconcile the 160 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:26,240 belief in a loving God with the pain and 161 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,840 loss associated with miscarriage and 162 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,800 infertility yeah I I think this is a 163 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:33,599 really hard question 164 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:36,240 there's probably not an answer that you 165 00:06:33,599 --> 00:06:37,840 leave with being like oh that's good I 166 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,280 feel good about that that makes total 167 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:43,520 sense um but I can tell you what I 168 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:46,120 walked through um and for me at some 169 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,960 point I realized that I Associated God's 170 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:52,160 love and goodness with two pink lines 171 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:54,360 and so without those lines I believe the 172 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:57,759 lie that God was withholding good from 173 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,759 from me um and it's so D that is such 174 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:02,400 dangerous thinking I think that's the 175 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:04,479 seed that the enemy plants in so many of 176 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,000 us and for me it's two pink lines but it 177 00:07:04,479 --> 00:07:08,400 could be anything it could be a job it 178 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,800 could be sickness it could be a marriage 179 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,639 wealth it could be your kids being 180 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,360 successful but all of a sudden you know 181 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:16,360 you've got that doubt that God's 182 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,400 withholding on you um and so what 183 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,879 happens is you start to look at your you 184 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,599 start to look at God through the lens of 185 00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:24,319 your 186 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:26,479 circumstances and what you have to get 187 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:29,160 to a places you have to filter your 188 00:07:26,479 --> 00:07:30,039 circumstances through God and so it's 189 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,080 that 190 00:07:30,039 --> 00:07:33,520 it's a making your like getting right 191 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,520 side up again I think that is the 192 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:40,440 journey um and so at some point I had to 193 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:42,479 accept the truth that not having kids um 194 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,120 back in those days and even now like 195 00:07:42,479 --> 00:07:45,800 I've dealt with secondary infertility I 196 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,599 would love to have more kids but the 197 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,520 answer is no the the Lord has said no um 198 00:07:48,599 --> 00:07:53,639 and so I have to recognize that that no 199 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:57,039 is actually from God in his complete 200 00:07:53,639 --> 00:07:59,800 goodness um and that I say that really 201 00:07:57,039 --> 00:08:04,759 with fluidity um but it's really really 202 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:08,319 hard to do um and it it what happened in 203 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,720 me is that it revealed um I don't want 204 00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:12,319 to say the crack in my faith but it 205 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,800 revealed this deficit in the fact that 206 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:17,280 um the Brokenness and despair that 207 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,800 resulted out of my pain wasn't a result 208 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:22,680 of my circumstances it was the result of 209 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:26,960 a Detachment from God and who he was and 210 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:29,080 so because I didn't have a clear view on 211 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,000 who God was and what the gospel meant 212 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,960 for me 213 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,959 that created that level of Brokenness 214 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,839 from him not my infertility does that 215 00:08:34,959 --> 00:08:39,200 make sense that does make sense I just I 216 00:08:36,839 --> 00:08:40,880 want to clarify too so you are saying 217 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,440 that it 218 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,240 wasn't your Brokenness was felt to the 219 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,800 depth that it was felt I mean the pain 220 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,959 is still real the pain is still real you 221 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,880 know just if you're really Tethered to 222 00:08:47,959 --> 00:08:53,279 God doesn't mean you don't feel pain 223 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,360 yeah but it was not the infertility 224 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:57,760 itself I mean I would I would say like 225 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,160 the depth of the Brokenness that I felt 226 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:03,839 was a result of being detached from who 227 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,600 God really is um because the pain if I'm 228 00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:07,600 if I'm attached to who God is and I have 229 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,959 a clear vent like if I if what I believe 230 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,200 about the gospel is true right that at 231 00:09:09,959 --> 00:09:16,240 my worst um and most unlovable self God 232 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,959 sends Jesus to pay the price um then 233 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,760 that mean and he's working to restore 234 00:09:17,959 --> 00:09:23,440 all things then he is good yeah that 235 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,240 that proves that he's good um so how 236 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,360 could I reduce God's goodness to my 237 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,600 Earthly circumstance so when I lose 238 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,160 sight of God's goodness it's not because 239 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,640 of my circumstances it's because I've 240 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:37,240 lost sight of God yeah that does make 241 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:39,079 sense how did you get there oh man I 242 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,519 didn't you know is that is that 243 00:09:39,079 --> 00:09:42,240 something that like one day you're 244 00:09:40,519 --> 00:09:44,920 feeling this way and the next day you 245 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,279 remember God's goodness oh no no it's a 246 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:50,560 proc how do you processed to there it's 247 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:51,920 funny I remember um being in the shower 248 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:54,760 I do a lot of good thinking in the 249 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,640 shower good processing praying and I 250 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,880 remember kind of being like really 251 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,600 really angry and at that point I was 252 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,240 kind of letting God have it like I was 253 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,880 kind of like this is ridiculous you know 254 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,880 um you've put this desire in my heart 255 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,240 and then you say no to it this is stupid 256 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,920 why would you do that um and I really 257 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:15,560 heard God speak to the depth of my heart 258 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:18,760 so clearly and he said you know Holly 259 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:20,279 you don't trust me to give you what you 260 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,160 want because at this point I I had 261 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:24,160 actually really stopped praying about it 262 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,839 cuz we can get into that later but so he 263 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,120 was like you don't trust me to give you 264 00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:30,160 what you want but you don't trust me to 265 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,360 take care of you if I don't 266 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,200 and so it was like oh okay yeah it's 267 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,600 like you had to wrestle I really had to 268 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,519 wrestle with that for a long time and 269 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,320 come to the the gra the kind of the 270 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:45,480 understanding that did I just want G God 271 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,000 to give me what I was asking for is that 272 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,160 what I really wanted or is it possible 273 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,360 to find satisfaction that when God does 274 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,680 not fix the difficulty in my life but he 275 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,320 instead gives me Grace to endure them 276 00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,399 without becoming bitter without becoming 277 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,800 resentful that that is his goodness 278 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:05,399 um Nancy Guthrie has a quote where she 279 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,720 says can I move from Desperately Seeking 280 00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:10,160 relief to diligently seeking to glorify 281 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,480 God as I treasure him more than I do my 282 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,839 own comfort and again it's really hard 283 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,839 and it's not a yes and it's it's I would 284 00:11:14,839 --> 00:11:20,480 say it is a 285 00:11:16,839 --> 00:11:22,000 lifelong surrender to get to that point 286 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,360 um and it's not something that I could 287 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,200 ever do on my own and so to answer your 288 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:30,519 question no it was through his strength 289 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,920 his grace um in my weakness that he 290 00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:33,760 becomes the only place where all of a 291 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,480 sudden it's the only it's the only way 292 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,399 that I can place my hope it's the only 293 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,480 place that makes sense you know when you 294 00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:43,200 start to really let him fill in the gaps 295 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,720 you know of all your wrong thinking you 296 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,839 mentioned that at some point during this 297 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,959 journey 10 years yeah that it was just 298 00:11:48,839 --> 00:11:53,000 something that you stop praying about so 299 00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:54,560 what did that role look like maybe even 300 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,200 take us through the not the whole 301 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,560 timeline but the timeline from the 302 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,120 beginning of kind of what prayer and 303 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,800 scripture looked like in a time of 304 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,000 needing to cope during your 305 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,839 disappointment and loss and what it 306 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,320 looks like towards the end yeah yeah I I 307 00:12:06,839 --> 00:12:10,519 stopped praying because at some point 308 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:14,480 you get to the point where at least for 309 00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:15,959 me um it is better to not ask so you 310 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,240 don't have to be told no over and over 311 00:12:15,959 --> 00:12:20,079 again right and so it was like a defense 312 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,760 mechanism that I was you know 313 00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:25,320 unhealthily coping with um if you are 314 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,040 struggling with infertility Sarah 315 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,800 Hagerty has a book called every bitter 316 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,680 thing is sweet and I highly recommend 317 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,360 the book 318 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:36,079 and she talks about how um she meets a 319 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,079 woman who is saying like um finds out 320 00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:39,639 that Sarah is struggling with 321 00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:41,680 infertility and she says oh my gosh I've 322 00:12:39,639 --> 00:12:43,600 been there I like it took us two months 323 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,959 to get pregnant and that was really hard 324 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,600 so I totally understand what you're what 325 00:12:44,959 --> 00:12:49,560 you're going through and Sarah was 326 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,199 saying like it I wish it had taken me 327 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,959 two months because when you're at two 328 00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:54,440 months you are still kind of in this 329 00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:56,680 like okay it's taking a little bit 330 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,320 longer but God you have a plan and so 331 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,360 that's kind of how the prayer starts it 332 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,680 starts with this idea like Lord could 333 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,519 you give us this could you give and then 334 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:05,800 each month that goes by or each loss 335 00:13:04,519 --> 00:13:07,639 your prayers just get a little bit 336 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,440 shorter and shorter and shorter and and 337 00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:11,240 that's wrong and it's flawed thinking 338 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,680 but that's kind of the path that I went 339 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,360 to um and so this is also where I would 340 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:20,360 say it's really important to build 341 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:22,000 habits outside of a crisis or a loss so 342 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,480 if you're not I mean if you are it's 343 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,560 never too late but if you're not going 344 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,800 through something really hard it's it's 345 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:30,040 this lesson that I started to learn that 346 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,680 talks about um the idea of walking it 347 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,839 back and so when I don't feel like 348 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,600 praying or I don't feel like opening the 349 00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:37,560 Bible or I'm angry you know you walk it 350 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,680 back and I gotta start with the gospel 351 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,279 right so I got to start the gospel and I 352 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,880 got to speak that truth to myself even 353 00:13:40,279 --> 00:13:43,720 when I don't feel it so I have to remind 354 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,120 myself God is good how do you know that 355 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,959 God is good and keep walking it back has 356 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,680 he been faithful to you in other areas 357 00:13:47,959 --> 00:13:51,040 of your life okay what are those areas 358 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,959 those life what did that faithfulness 359 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,959 look like did you see it in the moment 360 00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:57,120 and start to like release the control so 361 00:13:55,959 --> 00:13:59,399 that then you know you can start to be 362 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,240 like okay God I can trust you with this 363 00:13:59,399 --> 00:14:02,959 really hard big thing because I've 364 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,639 walked it back and I remember the past 365 00:14:02,959 --> 00:14:09,680 and so that's kind of how um my prayer 366 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:10,959 life evolved um from being like Oh yeah 367 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,000 I'm going to pray about it all the time 368 00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:13,759 I'm never going to pray about it to 369 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,160 saying okay I need to talk to you about 370 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:17,160 it but let's let me walk it back and 371 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,959 start fresh that's really good that's 372 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:22,320 really good advice now with loss and 373 00:14:19,959 --> 00:14:23,920 infertility you of course felt that 374 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,519 deeply but you weren't the only one in 375 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,720 the scenario that was feeling that so 376 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:29,639 how did your relationship with your 377 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,959 spouse and partner evolve 378 00:14:29,639 --> 00:14:34,079 through the struggles of infertility and 379 00:14:31,959 --> 00:14:36,079 miscarriage yeah I feel like this is 380 00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:38,480 this is another hard one this is hard 381 00:14:36,079 --> 00:14:39,839 one yeah the enemy wants nothing more 382 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,480 than to drive a wedge between you and 383 00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:44,320 your spouse and he'll use anything that 384 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,079 he can um to take your eyes off of the 385 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,759 way marriage is supposed to look I 386 00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:48,920 actually when I was kind of preparing 387 00:14:47,759 --> 00:14:51,480 that we were going to talk about this I 388 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,800 read a statistic that said um couples 389 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,120 who experience a season of infertility 390 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,480 or a pregnancy loss are three times more 391 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:02,000 likely to call it quits it's like wow 392 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:04,639 the odds are like not in your favor um 393 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,360 and so you have to be com batling that 394 00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,440 even though I would say the journey for 395 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,040 me was very different than the journey 396 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,320 for my husband um who also struggled 397 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,000 with it but struggled way differently 398 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,880 you know he wasn't the one that had the 399 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,279 loss or was bleeding or was doing this 400 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,920 and so it it it's just from totally 401 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:23,880 different Vantage points and so I would 402 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,480 say and again this isn't specifically 403 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:28,279 for infertility loss but I would say you 404 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,880 need to talk about it slash don't talk 405 00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:32,720 about it got it clear yeah yeah tell 406 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,360 tell us more um it's like you need to 407 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,000 talk about it you need to even when you 408 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,399 don't want to say how you're feeling 409 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,720 even when you can't really articulate it 410 00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:43,120 um but also it can't be all you talk 411 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,519 about otherwise it becomes all consuming 412 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,319 to your relationship and your your 413 00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:48,399 identity as a couple becomes wrapped up 414 00:15:46,319 --> 00:15:49,639 in this and that feels like it naturally 415 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:51,319 happens because you're like this is the 416 00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:53,199 hardest thing that we're going through 417 00:15:51,319 --> 00:15:54,560 and so trying to find that balance of 418 00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:56,279 like we're going to go to dinner and 419 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,560 we're going to talk about it on Friday 420 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:58,720 and then on Saturday we're just going to 421 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,600 be a couple we're not going to talk 422 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,959 about 423 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,560 I mean it doesn't to be that rigid but 424 00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:07,759 creating space for both of those um I 425 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,560 would say that you got to search for Joy 426 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:11,839 um where you can find it so it might be 427 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,279 an extra date night a weekend away cake 428 00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:17,120 for breakfast I don't know that brings 429 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:19,040 me joy you know that might that probably 430 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:23,160 doesn't bring you Joy No it brings me 431 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,720 joy um uh but yeah seek ways um be 432 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,639 intentional about seeking ways as a 433 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,319 couple that are fun that can fill you up 434 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,560 that can kind of remember who you were 435 00:16:28,319 --> 00:16:33,720 before this trial was like who you were 436 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,880 as a couple and then um back to even 437 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,519 that praying is to pray together which 438 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,600 can feel super awkward and uncomfortable 439 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:42,720 and I don't know sometimes I'm like this 440 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,240 feels so weird I don't what to say um 441 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,120 but you're praying for each other you're 442 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,480 praying um with each other um yeah like 443 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,120 I said I had a season where I stopped 444 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,600 praying and I was absolutely at my worst 445 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,880 and my marriage was probably at its 446 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,440 worst too during that season so you want 447 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,880 to avoid that I think it's so good to 448 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,520 even me though cuz I think 449 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:06,039 that when we go through 450 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,760 Seasons the right thing to do is to stay 451 00:17:06,039 --> 00:17:12,679 Tethered to God sometimes that feels 452 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,120 impossible that you can't do that but I 453 00:17:12,679 --> 00:17:17,039 love that you even mentioned that you 454 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:19,319 had a season where you weren't praying 455 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:21,120 and that that didn't work out either no 456 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:24,400 no you know that sometimes you think 457 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:27,760 like I feel so angry and so lost and so 458 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,200 without hope that this is I'm going to 459 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,160 try something else because right now 460 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,080 this isn't helping um but then to 461 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:38,320 hear yeah that's it's worse it's worse 462 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:40,240 it's worse um what advice would you give 463 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,880 to someone in the faith community who 464 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,520 wants to support a couple with 465 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:48,679 infertility or miscarriage I feel like 466 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:51,919 um having people see you is the gift um 467 00:17:48,679 --> 00:17:54,400 and infertility and miscarriage and loss 468 00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:57,760 and questions it just feels super 469 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:00,159 isolating um and you know what I think 470 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,320 makes it different is so if you have 471 00:18:00,159 --> 00:18:05,440 cancer and you go through chemo you lose 472 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,120 your hair and so people know that you 473 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,360 are walking through cancer because there 474 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:14,039 are physical signs and they can see that 475 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:15,880 that is not the case um when it comes to 476 00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:17,919 like infertility like people have no 477 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,640 idea what you're going through and so 478 00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:23,440 you feel really unseen cuz I actually 479 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,159 think nowadays people talk about it more 480 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,000 than they did when I was really walking 481 00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:29,159 through some of the thick of it and so 482 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,480 having people who just see you makes a 483 00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:32,960 world of a difference um and so finding 484 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,480 ways that you can remind someone they're 485 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,640 seeing it might be a meal like a sweet 486 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,919 treat again it's like the sweet treats 487 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,480 for me it's the cake for me um it could 488 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:43,880 be a text that just says like hey 489 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,600 thinking about you um it's an awareness 490 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,720 to know that like uh Mother's Day and 491 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,320 baby showers are really hard days and so 492 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,000 I still feel like there's people on 493 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:56,080 mother's like Mother's Day actually 494 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,799 oddly is super complicated for me for me 495 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,520 now even having walked through it and 496 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:01,799 the way that the Lord has has crafted my 497 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,520 family mo like Mother's Day is not a 498 00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:06,200 joyful day for me it like takes me back 499 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,039 to all the years that it was so painful 500 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,600 and I feel like I just feel like 501 00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:12,000 people's tension because it's 502 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,960 complicated um so even just yeah like 503 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,280 hey saying to someone like this day I 504 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,960 know this day might be complicated for 505 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,559 you thinking about you love you you're 506 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,640 not saying I know it's complicated I 507 00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:22,919 know how you're feeling but you're just 508 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,559 saying like hey I see you here's flowers 509 00:19:22,919 --> 00:19:27,880 like on this day to help you think about 510 00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,679 it um so just being sensitive to those 511 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,440 spaces 512 00:19:29,679 --> 00:19:33,559 um the other thing I thought was like 513 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,120 creating a space 514 00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:38,720 for um someone to just be with you so 515 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,720 they might want to talk about what's 516 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 going on there are times that I I might 517 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,159 wanted to talk but there are times that 518 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,320 like um you know one of my my friends 519 00:19:44,159 --> 00:19:46,799 would like do you want to catch a movie 520 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,960 I'm like I do want to catch a movie and 521 00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:51,520 I don't want to talk about anything um I 522 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,840 just want to laugh at this movie and eat 523 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,360 popcorn okay and chocolate cake and 524 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,919 chocolate they don't sell at the movie 525 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,520 theater but they should they should um 526 00:19:57,919 --> 00:20:00,600 but yeah and so just having a space 527 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,520 where you're like if you want to talk 528 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,880 let's talk if you want to just go for a 529 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,360 walk and not talk about anything 530 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:09,200 important we don't we can do that too 531 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:11,679 now you were going through all of this 532 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,640 in this 10 years during a time that a 533 00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:15,640 lot of your friends were building 534 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,480 families and everybody was having B 535 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,440 everybody was having babies how one how 536 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,919 was that for you two how do you support 537 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,640 your friends when you're in such a 538 00:20:22,919 --> 00:20:29,360 painful place um and how do you even 539 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,760 handle kind of the feelings of I that 540 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,799 came along with that that's a good 541 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,280 question I once was really hurt I had a 542 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:36,159 friend who found out she was pregnant 543 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,600 and she didn't want to tell me and so I 544 00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:40,159 was like the last one to know and she 545 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,080 was like so afraid to tell me and it 546 00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:44,720 like crushed me cuz I was like oh my 547 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:47,360 gosh do you think that I don't like that 548 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,320 I can't Rejoice with you um now that's 549 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,080 not to say that it still didn't sting 550 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,440 because it did like it still Hur every 551 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,919 time someone popped up pregnant you're 552 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:59,360 like well good for you you know um but I 553 00:20:56,919 --> 00:21:02,880 think that you can feel both things and 554 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:05,760 so you can both be joyful for a friend 555 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,720 or a family member who is experiencing 556 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,240 something really good and grieve what 557 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,520 you don't have um and it doesn't mean 558 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,960 that you're going to that one the right 559 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,520 emotion is always going to come out on 560 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:20,200 top but I think giving it space and 561 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:24,039 having friends who um recognize that 562 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,880 space and give you space so for me if I 563 00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:27,480 was going to have a friend uh do a 564 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,279 pregnancy announcement in a really fun 565 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,400 way and a group of people I would love 566 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,640 to know ahead of time then I can choose 567 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,480 if I want to come or if I don't want to 568 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,400 come and I don't have to run the 569 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,080 surprise but just like being caught off 570 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,279 guard with something could be really 571 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,679 triggering and so just being like hey 572 00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:41,919 I'm pregnant I'm going to tell everybody 573 00:21:40,679 --> 00:21:43,760 tonight through this game that we're 574 00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:46,039 going to play just so you know and then 575 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,559 I get to choose whether I get I want to 576 00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:50,279 be a part of it or not instead of you 577 00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:51,960 choosing for me um so that's one thing 578 00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:54,559 um the biggest thing that I would say is 579 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,480 to not isolate I think isolation is so 580 00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:59,919 so so dangerous I think it's the enemy's 581 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,880 biggest tool um when there is no truth 582 00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:05,640 going in I don't know how you ever get 583 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,400 right side up again because just false 584 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,080 things can take root and seeds can grow 585 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,080 um and so I know it's hard because you 586 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,240 don't want to go out and you don't want 587 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,400 to hang out with people and you feel 588 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:18,240 crummy um but at least find one person 589 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,080 that you can be honest with and say like 590 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,840 I feel crummy this is crummy I'm not 591 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:27,320 having a good day um I would also say go 592 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:29,240 to church like it's hard um but 593 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,480 corporate worship and prayer and the 594 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,840 reading of God's word will always like 595 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,760 will not return void and so building 596 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,279 that habit to every week make sure that 597 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,520 you are in church and you've got one 598 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:41,600 person that you can check in and be 599 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,200 honest with the rest of the people you 600 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,919 can be fake with them doesn't matter you 601 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,720 need you need one person that who's 602 00:22:44,919 --> 00:22:48,960 going to speak truth to you and love you 603 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,520 through that yeah because I think I mean 604 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,919 you already mentioned this but I think 605 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,039 one of the things about infertility too 606 00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:56,240 is it's such 607 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:57,760 a it's I don't I don't mean that it's 608 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,559 such a secret but it's something that 609 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:04,240 people start trying to have babies in 610 00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:08,039 privacy and at what point do you start 611 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:10,440 to let people in on the journey you know 612 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:12,840 um and trying to find that find that 613 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,080 time because it would be so easy to just 614 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,080 isolate even more how have you 615 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,720 experienced God's presence or guidance 616 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,520 in unexpect in unexpected ways 617 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,760 throughout your journey with infertility 618 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,400 and 619 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,480 loss yeah let's feel like let's see if I 620 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,919 can take it all and you know sum it up 621 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,880 it's like infertility um has been years 622 00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:37,360 of of heartbreak um for me and it it 623 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,840 comes in different waves so I might have 624 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,279 a season where I'm feeling like really 625 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,840 confident and then there might be a day 626 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,240 when I'm like oh man I'm right back kind 627 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,360 of where I started um but I also feel 628 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,320 like my heart has changed more in the 629 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:54,039 last 15 years than I ever thought it 630 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:55,640 could um there is something so cool um 631 00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:58,159 that God would be willing to meet me in 632 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,360 the middle of my mess and so it's like I 633 00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:03,240 didn't have to work through those 634 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,799 questions and doubts and you know 635 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,279 accusations that I was making against 636 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:08,960 him for him to be willing to come into 637 00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:11,440 it with me um and 638 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,760 so you know he will hold me accountable 639 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,640 to some of that flawed thinking um when 640 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,279 those thoughts start to to creep back in 641 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,279 and you know his reminders that like I 642 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:22,440 am seen like I am loved um God has 643 00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:24,440 goodness for me even if it's different 644 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,399 than I could comprehend on this side of 645 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,159 Heaven um but the biggest thing I feel 646 00:24:27,399 --> 00:24:31,000 like that I would want to say or want to 647 00:24:29,159 --> 00:24:32,960 make sure that people hear is like there 648 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,240 is no shame in saying that your heart 649 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,760 and head are broken um and that they 650 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,880 don't match um I feel like that's the 651 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,080 only space where you can really know him 652 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:45,279 as healer and it's not necessarily 653 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,559 healer of like like my womb it's like 654 00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:51,039 healer of my eyes like to be able to see 655 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:52,799 him like for who he really is um I think 656 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:55,559 there's nothing more authentic or 657 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:58,720 beautiful um than a woman who learns to 658 00:24:55,559 --> 00:25:00,480 let God rebuild her life um day after 659 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,880 day no matter how many broken pieces 660 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,480 there are to pick up no matter how much 661 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,960 work you did the day before if you come 662 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,200 back and you're like it's all broken 663 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,279 again the next day I think that is like 664 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,600 where real authentic beautiful Faith Lie 665 00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:14,080 um and it's like in that journey I feel 666 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,399 like God has shown me the most beautiful 667 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,440 pieces of himself and to say that he is 668 00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:20,880 truly trustworthy even with those 669 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,360 crevices like of my heart that I like 670 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,039 have kept hidden away from 671 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,279 him that was such a beautiful answer and 672 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:29,039 I think something that can be so 673 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:33,919 applicable in so many different 674 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:36,200 places of Brokenness if you were to 675 00:25:33,919 --> 00:25:39,159 leave our listeners with 676 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,840 anything what would you say to them yeah 677 00:25:39,159 --> 00:25:44,080 I feel like whatever kind of heartbreak 678 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,120 you're going through if it's um you know 679 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,279 infertility a miscarriage secondary 680 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:51,120 infertility which in and of itself is so 681 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:53,080 complicated because um you know the 682 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,760 world is saying like you should be 683 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,279 satisfied with what you have but your 684 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,760 heart is still longing for more like 685 00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:01,080 wherever that is it's like just the fact 686 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:05,159 that like God can handle it he is not 687 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:07,159 thwarted by how broken you feel um if 688 00:26:05,159 --> 00:26:09,279 you will just like lay the pieces before 689 00:26:07,159 --> 00:26:11,440 him and trust him to rebuild it like he 690 00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:14,039 is trustworthy and good and faithful to 691 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,799 do that Holly thank you so much for 692 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:20,200 sharing you sharing your heart sharing 693 00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:23,320 this really really hard side of it too 694 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:26,440 um I appreciate it I appreciate learning 695 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,880 about you and your journey and how you 696 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:32,159 went through all of it to get to the 697 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,799 other side I also want to say for 698 00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:37,840 listeners especially during this time um 699 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:40,799 if you are struggling and feeling like 700 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:44,760 you are broken and at a loss You are not 701 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:46,840 alone and you will never be alone and 702 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,120 you have people that are there that have 703 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,640 been in similar similar places and that 704 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:53,840 are in your corner to cheer you on thank 705 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,600 you for listening to this episode this 706 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,960 has been parenting for the everyday tune 707 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,960 in next time