Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Trey: It's Moon Knight Week!
Mountainous.
I'm pumped.
I've had, I had students asking me, he was like, actually
there's this moon something.
Jude: I'm not sure.
You mean moon night, the desktop picture of my big smart board
in class, the past month.
Yeah, never heard of them.
The one thing I didn't say to him, I was like, aren't you in
the comic book club with me?
How are you?
Not,
Trey: what are you doing?
Favorite thing about this is finding out that you update your smart board
with whatever Marvel things coming out.
Jude: Yes, I do.
I 100% too.
Trey: Are you promoting in class?
Jude: Uh, I have yet to put the pod image up, but when moon night's over
and there's still a few weeks left of school, I will be switching to Ms.
Marvel.
Trey: Nice.
That's super cool.
Jude: Well, Rob multimers and madness actually, cause that comes out early may.
Um, but yeah.
I love it.
So yeah, like infinity war actually
Trey: do another rewind.
Jude: No, I'm saying I've been doing that since infinity wars, like oh wow.
With movies.
Like, yeah.
That's, that's a regular thing for me even before the pod.
And
Trey: that's why we are doing this podcast together because the moment you told me
you were doing a rewatch with your class.
I knew we needed to do something.
Oh man.
But, uh, yeah, we, uh, we got Moonlight coming up this week.
If you're listening to this on our release day, which is Monday, moon night, we'll
be debuting March 30th on Wednesday.
So that means an a week from now, uh, we'll be dropping our moon night reviews.
You know, before we get going into the bulk of the episode, though, we did
want to take some time to plug the geek generation podcast, uh, because Rob Logan,
if you're familiar from the guest bus, as he's had on our show and invited us
on his show to talk about the Batman,
Jude: that was fun, talking about something, non MCU for a good two
and a half hours was fun, super fun.
And we could have gone longer.
Trey: Oh, we totally, you know, what if you're, I think this is okay too.
I'm going to say what it is without actually saying what it is.
I texted Rob Logan, like two days after we recorded, they just released
deleted footage of a certain thing in the Batman and we missed it by two days.
It would have been so much fun to talk about on the podcast itself.
Jude: It would have been.
Ah, how do I want to say this?
I know, right?
I don't want to say too much because I want you to go check it out,
listen to the pod, but I'd definitely thinking back to the conversation.
Good formulate a pretty good guess of where the three of us would stand
on that, on that deleted scene.
Trey: So it's not out yet, but we will definitely be re-tweeting it when it is
officially launched on our social media.
And of course, the next time we hop on the mix, we'll be sure to link it
in the show notes, but while you're waiting, make sure you go check out the
geek generation podcast, which will be linked in the show notes of this episode.
With all that being said, if you downloaded this episode, then you know,
we're going to be explaining the Marvel multi-verse after Spider-Man no way home.
So setting the stage here back on July 15th, 2021, uh, it was reported that Kevin
FYGI and a bunch of the creative leads over at Marvel studios had a meeting to
set the ground rules for the multi-verse.
If I'm not mistaken, July was around the time Loki was debuting.
So it makes sense that this is something that they're starting to get concrete
rules for as we move forward into the multi-verse with this phase of the MCU.
So coming to this episode, Jude, I think we wanted to start here.
What is the multi-verse if I could just, you know, pitch
that super easy question to you.
Jude: I find that super easy question.
Um, I find that.
It's weird.
Cause like we're going to have a meeting on setting the rules for the
multi-verse were trying to storytell by having no rules, you know?
Um, so it's, it's interesting.
Like I watched a couple of videos thinking about, multi-verse only just to try it.
Like I have my ideas of what I think it is and things like that.
And one of the videos I saw talked about nine different types of
multi versus you are definitely
Trey: more prepared than I am because I have two different types, but go ahead.
Jude: And some of them like, okay, did we go that far?
I don't want to go that far.
It's Brian Green, a physicist.
Uh, he J he wrote this book, the elegant universe, and
didn't turning up and do a show.
On PBS, you know, and really good.
I've seen it.
I wanted to get the book, you know?
And so this is coming off of this theoretical physicist, a universe, you
know, everything literally mathematically, when you get into the mathematics of
it in physics, you get beyond universe.
It's, there's more than, than one.
Okay.
There is a weird thing between theory, scientifically and philosophy.
So for example, strict science it's what is the scientific method?
You observe it, some of this quantum mechanic physics type things,
because it's only mathematically true and has not been observable.
Yet for technological reasons, put it that way.
Some would argue that this is just, you're still doing philosophy.
You know what I mean?
So real quick type number one is quilted only works in infinite universe,
infinite amount of space, right?
Infinite numbers.
Um, we're going to be on aware of these identical areas due to the speed of light.
Right?
And anytime with these words, you can start thinking like
think images, quilt, right.
You know, quilted.
Um, but a university imagined that whole, you know, everything's possible all
options exists, type theory, inflationary.
You get these little pockets of where they call inflation fields.
They collapse.
And like in there, like collapse and rebirth, right.
Form new universes, uh, there's brain theory universe exists on this membrane.
It floats on this higher dimension of other membranes.
Uh, universities can interact with each other when they do interact.
They basically collide.
And what we would call the big bang when they collide on this membrane thing,
uh, they're cyclical is number four, multiple universities that have collided
causing big bang, bounce back and you know, back and pass through time until
they're pulled back together and collide again, destroying all contents, creating
a new, so like you, so imagine like here cyclical I'm, I'm almost for me visually
imagining like a billiards table, right.
And two things collide.
And that would be a big bang.
Right?
And then they go around, but it ends up bouncing back, you know, but their
journey around the table is time when they come back together and collide.
Again, those it's like another explosion, right.
It's destroyed, but it also goes back out.
So that's the cycle of time.
It's cyclical.
That one.
I really find interesting.
The only reason why is when I think of the 2014 secret wars run, which
was Marvel, trying to figure out what to do with all their universes,
6 1 6 and all that other stuff.
And so what they did was like start consolidating and that secret stories
line, the different universes collide.
And the stuff they wanted to keep, they kept and the
comment, you know what I mean?
Like we like miles Morales.
Yeah.
We like miles Morales.
So we're going to have miles Morales and our New York.
Cause we're not gonna let that go, but we want to get Gwynn's Stacey,
spider Gwyn out of this other universe and interact with these.
And so we're just going to collide them all together, pick and choose
where we want to create a new world.
Dr.
Strange in that comic, Ron is the right hand man of Dr.
Doom.
Who's holding everything together.
Kamala Khan is very important in their Deadpool's very important to their Hmm.
Fantastic for is very important for her.
Like notice a pattern of like.
People we think are coming.
Uh, we keep hearing secret wars, Russo brothers.
So that one, I found very interesting in terms of like, okay, wait a minute.
Are they going to try to dive into like, maybe this type of multiverse
down the line, um, landscape, uh, now you're getting to, um, string
theory type stuff that, you know what TJ, if you're listening, we
need you back on here for this one.
Uh, this one, I want you in the video as simplistic as it was.
I'm an amateur physicist and I'm using amateur lightly,
Trey: depending on how well we're doing DJs, either like
nodding, like, okay, okay.
Or just like screaming at his, his iPod right now.
He
Jude: is, he is like, he's like, why didn't they ask me on for this?
Because this was supposed to happen in February and for various
things, it got rescheduled.
So now, uh, quantum creates a new universe when it, uh, diversion
events occur and many world interpretations and a mini world type
interpretations of quantum mechanics.
That sounds a little bit like what we've seen, right.
This creates a new universe when a diversion occurs.
Okay.
Holographic, you know, the theory of surface area of space can encode the
contents of the volume of region.
Again, again, my note, literally I'm reading it again, not a physical.
I have no idea what that one meant.
Number eight and there was nine number eight is trace favorite.
It's the simulated theory exists on a complex computer systems
that simulate entire universes.
Maybe that's the multi-verse.
I see your face story.
We're using video and I see the anxiety so glad we're using video for the first
time to see each other record this.
And I just see the anxiety of like you're biting your nails.
Okay.
Um, and then number nine contains mathematically every possible universe.
I'm not a physicist.
I can't tell you the difference between the two.
I'm just watching Brian Green video.
Take it for what you will.
But I do find that fascinating that there was nine theories because in like
popular language and culture and media, We all think we know what we're talking
about when it comes to multi-verse so, yeah, so that's, uh, so yeah, that's
kind of interesting to the actually
Trey: yeah, well, I, you know, I, I liked the way you frame it in the, we
all think we know what we're talking about, which kind of goes back to, you
know, what we started as the setting, the stage, they sat down to set the rules.
And so another thing I'm glad that you gave the nine different examples
of what we think the multi-verse is like, because I want to try and bring.
From the broad view to what the MCU seems to be doing.
So for me, and my understanding of their goals is in order to have a,
multi-verse like an understandable multi-verse, you need to have a
constant because you need something to contrast against the different changes
within the media we're tackling.
So for me, the MCU in game and everything prior is our constant, because now
after end game, this is where we're starting to see things diverged.
We're starting to see the multi-verse, whether it's through fake outs, like
far from home, uh, or actual diving into the multi-verse with stuff like Loki.
We now have a set of rules to play contrast to, and with.
I think we're seeing two paths of the multi-verse.
We have stuff that is in-house with Loki and Sylvie.
Uh, every episode of what if that's their own creation within the MCU of alternate
characters we already know, or franchise hopping, which is what we've seen in
things like Spider-Man no way home.
Uh, we think we're getting some examples in multi-verse of madness.
Those are the two different routes that I think the MCU is going to play in.
And so,
Jude: well, all I was gonna say is that that cyclical that I mentioned
was secret wars or the idea that mathematically or something like
that, that all possible worlds exist.
Right?
Like we're very, it feels like the franchise hopping you mean.
Is really leaning into those types of theories, whereas the in world theories
and another video I watch, and I'm not going to go through like notes line
by line on this one talked about when you look at what strictly the in-house
EMC has done, you mentioned Loki TVA.
It was like they actually showed it fairly accurately.
If you imagine time to use Einstein's words, an arrow, but sorry, I'm sorry.
Not, it's not an arrow to imagine it as a river, right.
In a river can branch off and have things think like the really cool
animated thing for the TVA or in game and the ancient one, right.
Where it's like this flowing river and you get these splinters.
Oh, so it in-house, they're using kind of like that theory
to bring in other franchises.
That's not a deviation split.
That's something completely separate, able to somehow bridge that gap.
Trey: I think that's why we see things like, like, well,
no, this isn't a good example.
Cause I was going to say like in Loki you had some of the Lokeys
where it's like this Loki's taller.
This low key is actually a permanent frost giant or this
low-key just dresses differently.
Or this Loki is as Sylvie, uh, of a woman version of low-key themselves.
Whereas I was going to say, in other examples, you have just bringing
in the actors like the villains from the Raimi trilogy or the web.
Uh, I was gonna say trilogy, just the two web films.
Uh, it's the same, same actor, but playing a different version.
If that makes sense.
Jude: No.
No.
So the only reason why you only don't want to say no is because like
I get it, maybe what Jamie Foxx.
Cause they were like, yeah, that was dumb.
We're just gonna let you be you and give you a better looking suit
and they have different suits, but they clearly remembered air quotes.
It's so weird.
The ceiling, you know, with video.
Cause I know you see me and say like I'm doing air quotes for Trey
and nobody on here is seeing it.
But now that I've told you, imagine me doing air quotes around
remembering, but like they remembered what happened in the movie.
You know what I mean?
You died, you did this, you said, you know, so that's what I mean
when I don't understand what you mean by different version.
Because it's because it's because they are, I took it as they
literally pulling those characters from one universe to another.
And then going back to that same universe, rather than just saying,
whereas like, and Wanda vision, the whole Pietro thing where they're making
us think you're pulling in a pho from another universe, but it's really not.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Um, even there, some of us thought, well, maybe it is multi-verse and
it's another version, but he just looks like you, you know what I mean?
Um, but it turned out to me there, but that's what I mean when I
say no, it didn't make sense.
When you say another version,
Trey: I guess it gets confusing because there are examples of it.
Same actor, different I'm already getting confused on my own multiplex
Jude: example without having seen.
The upcoming flash and the rumors about returning Batman, is that from another
franchise coming in or is that just a different version, but we can lean into
it cause they previously played it.
I don't know.
Trey: I'm not going to lie you.
I had the thing to go on with the Jamie Fox and then it's like,
yeah, they do remember stuff.
So.
I don't know if I have a point to stand on that one anymore.
Hm.
I guess cause like with my understanding, whenever you have these characters
coming in, say from the Raimi trilogy, it feels like to me, because they
were plucked into no way home.
It almost has to be a different version because they're alive.
Otherwise if they go back despite everything, no way home did just to die
again, that doesn't feel satisfying.
If that makes sense.
Jude: Yes.
Yes.
That makes sense.
Trey: Oh, by that logic, it feels like it's got to be same actor, different
universe, different character.
Jude: I get that.
I understand it.
But like, because you had Peter Parker.
Peter one, Peter two Peter three, like, you know, because you had those, um,
that's clearly different versions of this have the same person in three verses.
But, but you're right, because in what you're saying, because it is one of those
things where it's like, because they died, you know, it's, it's like what the Hulk
said, which was a hundred percent right.
Change my mind, um, referenced the other episode of the podcast.
Uh, but like nachos cheese fries, um, where he said is like, like the whole,
it's the whole idea of like, like when you go into the past and you can't change
your future because your future hasn't happened yet idea of end game then.
Yeah.
Fundamentally.
Yeah, I get it.
You're right.
That is becomes a different version because that person died came over here.
And goes back still alive.
And so in, in that sense, I might argue, I might argue, like we're going to
follow this all the way through that.
The different version happens in the return.
Okay.
Because, cause it's like, I was about to die and all of a
sudden in death, I came over.
Hmm.
What if that's how they get the Fox universe characters over.
They only pull from the ones that are dead because in that death,
that's how they transitioned from one universe to the next.
And those that survive couldn't because they're still have their
physical form in that universe.
Okay.
Which case I can bring.
Cause remember who died in low.
Professor X, Logan,
Trey: why aren't you working at Marvel studios?
Huh?
I said, why are you working at Marvel studios?
So I
Jude: like my day job.
Trey: Once again, TJ shaking his head at the phone or screaming at his
all I was going to say, cause we've been trying to find a way to put
this on the record using that idea.
I told you as much as Marvel studios right now is in the give fans what they want.
Cause they're so good at fan service with Spider-Man Noey home, seemingly with
some stuff with multi-verse of madness, I was willing to bet you Deadpool three
is Deadpool kills the Fox universe.
Like I know that's a big comic run.
Something where he just kills the Marvel universe.
Oh, it has to be.
What if this is their way to, that's kind of the Fox universe and because he's about
to kill him, that's how they bring in whatever character they want and not have
to bring everybody in using your idea.
That would be
Jude: fantastic.
That would be cool.
Again, I,
Trey: I was already tried like, cause I know this is going to be a confusing
episode because you can't talk about the multi-verse without it being confusing.
So I was personally going to try and limit the tangents that I had,
but man, that was such a good idea that I wanted to go out there.
Jude: You just, you just blew my mind.
The reason why Deadpool can come over because you know, regeneration,
he doesn't die kind of thing, but what's is one of our superpowers.
He's aware that he is in a comic or a film, which is why
he breaks the fourth wall.
So he has an innate ability to cross universes with that because he's aware
that he's just a character in a show or.
Maybe that's how they do it.
Trey: Maybe that, and again, a lot of this, cause we had already
had this discussion off pod.
This is a way for us to get this on the record.
If we turn out to be correct, because this is, this will be the babe Ruth shot
of all babe Ruth shots of this podcast.
So far really
Jude: Deadpool kills the Marvel universe.
It's happening.
Lee and credits is going to be Kevin foggy.
Trey: All it is.
It's just him with his hat, smiling at the scratch.
You paid for this.
So I wouldn't potentially throw in a monkey wrench here.
Okay.
We're talking about multi-verse.
Yeah.
We've, we've somewhat established, you know, you gave your non-examples
of, of leading theories.
We brought it down to how Marvel themselves is trying to use it.
What, how does this conflict with the way Dr.
Strange in 2016 set up the multi-verse because the ancient one talks about
the multi-verse, but then goes on to depict different dimensions.
Is each, does each universe have a dark dimension?
And that's just part of the multi-verse or is the dark dimension
just a different part of the multi-verse if that makes sense.
Like where's the distinguishing line there?
Jude: I don't know, but I mean, first off, because that would be speculation, right?
I mean, clearly it's speculation from a number of ways, a how
aware was 5g in the MCU and 5g?
You might've been aware in the back of his mind, but not articulated fully to
other people yet of when dark dimension.
You know, and your mama was mentioned, I'm laying groundwork for later.
Right now, having said that, the reason why I say even fight, you might not have
been aware things like the language.
And we saw this in assembled, right?
Of like the language used in, what if versus the language used in Loki versus
the language used in Wanda vision.
And they're like, if I knew they were going to call it a nexus event,
or if I knew they were going to do this or that, you know what I mean?
I would have changed my language.
So script writing wise, dark dimensioned Dormamuu might not have
been in the forethought of this is the place that occupies, but to call it.
So, so in that sense, I'm going to go this way.
I feel like because they named it, the dark dimension.
While it's outside of clearly out a different dimension or
realm or universe from the MCU.
Right.
Because that's the way they established it.
They officially name it.
It's a place, the dark dimension.
Right.
And so going off of what if and the watcher being completely outside of and
having a space to go between to view,
I want to say it's another universe or place and just
door mom who might not know.
Because I'm imagining the possibility of the watcher.
Being able to observe the dark dimension the way he had deserves,
deserves, observes, anything else.
So, so yeah,
Trey: so it is a different place.
So just put it into terms that I can understand.
We know the dark dimension within the MCU because it's detailed in Dr.
Strange to go out on this limb with me, let's go to the Raimi universe
is the Raimi universe, even though we don't see it, I'm all in hypotheticals.
Now in the Ramy universe, is there a dark dimension that's
different from the one in the MCU?
Or is that the same?
Could that be the same one based on what you just said?
It's
Jude: the same one.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So then, because I would imagine like at this point now that they own it.
I'm imagining the wa the watcher being in a space.
Right?
Cause what was the fan theory that was kind of quasi confirmed through James Gunn
was the Stanley con cameo was the watcher.
And if that's going to be cannon, his cameos were in those Fox
universe, in Sony films that they now know that they now own.
So like you could lean into it and just say, well, if the watcher is
capable of going there and then going into dark dimension and is dark
dimension, the way we talk about it, it is a place like, and from a human
experience, we'd call it a place.
If the watcher can see that from the outside, looking in and as part
of where he can go, then it has to be some other world universe realm.
That's an actual place, separate from everything else.
Trey: Okay.
That
Jude: makes sense.
That is his own.
That is his own thing.
And it's not like each world has one.
Trey: Yeah.
So that's where I was like, I was under the impression that if, if you think
of a universe as its own little storage container, each storage container had
its own version of the dark dimension.
But I think you just won me over with using the watcher as an example
of being able to observe, observe it that way, and then linking that
with the Stan Lee cameos, because then you get into the point love.
Why would you want to get in the weeds that way when you can just so
easily say like, no, it's, it's, it's a place that is, I guess I'm gonna
go with this attainable from each of those different franchise IPS.
Jude: And the only reason why we knew it in the MCU, you'd have to
say it was the ancient one in Dr.
Strange, and, you know, Toby, they didn't have magic that
aliens Garfield didn't have magic.
He didn't even have aliens.
Trey: I want to fight an alien.
Jude: So let you, you know what I mean?
Like, like, yeah.
So now you're talking about like, they didn't have the capability to know.
It's not that they didn't have one that's, that's how I think it should be,
because I think that's the easiest way.
To do a multi-verse and integrate those other franchises.
Trey: And I think that's something important too, for
me, at least to keep in mind.
Whenever I start thinking about this, the ultimate goal of the multi-verse within
the MCU is to get these franchises.
I think together in a consolidated play place, because that's where they
want to continue telling their stories.
And there's no incentive.
We talked about this with Shawn, whenever he was on our episode,
there's no incentive to canonize or de canonize any particular thing because
they want people to watch what they make, regardless of it's the MCU.
But if they can set these ground rules, anything can be the MCU.
And so it just further, it's all about making those cohesive, consistent
routes into the main story or constant.
So that's something I think I'll try and keep in mind, moving forward.
Jude: Now, one thing that does come to mind that that is a potential problem
comes from the flash CW flash episodes.
Don't know how many people have watched it.
I have not seen all the episodes.
Actually.
I loved them.
I love the CW shows, but there was somewhere in there where it
just kind of fell off for me.
Yeah.
Got busy stuff like that.
Never returned.
Are you going to spoil it in that CW world and in particular
with the flash, but the CW world
Trey: major spoilers for the CW show, the flash starting
Jude: now and arrow and legends of tomorrow and whatever else
shows that is super girl.
Um, never seen Batwoman or black lightening.
I hear they're really good, but after having not seen them, um, I guess in a way
I'm spoiling those two and mainly because they do multi-dimensional jumping, it's
fantastic between all the shows they do.
Crossovers across all four shows like this big, like four episode,
six episode event across all the shows, but there was a problem.
Supergirl started on CBS got canceled.
Actually.
No, it didn't.
It did eventually get canceled, but it started on CBS in the flash on the CW
came over and did like one episode, two episodes or something with Supergirl.
But because it was on a different network, they had to use multi-verse
ideas to hop the network.
Gotcha.
But once they established that, after it got canceled on CBS and picked up
by CW, they've already established that it was in a different verb multiverse.
Right?
Well, that's a quick writing fix, right?
A quick couple of lines of dialogue and super-duper technology.
And now they go back and forth.
Universe is just like a, like it's a revolving door, no big deal.
And it's cool to have the individual episodes and then get
the crossover event and it's DC content, but see CW did it, right.
Those were actually really good shows is the CW shows.
And you have kind of the teen drama S John rhe that, that CWS known for yes,
but they were good shows, but right there, the revolving door aspect, it no longer
became special because it was just like, Hey, we're going to hop over and help out.
Supergirl.
Supergirl is going to hop over and say, I need your help.
Like, you know what I mean?
And, and it was just like, no big deal on a whim.
You, we know you're there.
I know you're here.
We need a lecture, hand kinda kind of, kind of mentality.
They did the same thing with the flash and time travel.
Oh, this is cool.
We can do time travel and then season two, then your time travel again.
And all of a sudden you're looking at yourself as like, I'm just
fix everything with time travel.
And so they had to start creating rules of consequences for time travel, right?
Otherwise it's like, what's the point, fix everything with time travel.
And so that would be my problem or my fear with what is the MCU going to do?
Is there something TVA language, a sacred timeline or universe?
And I dabble in these other things cost, like we're all excited to get the X-Men,
but it'd be cool to have Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, but if I'm going to bring him
over for an, you know, a cameo or two.
Okay.
Um, am I really getting MCU?
You know, when we take a day with home, I love doc doc.
I love Willem Defoe.
He is green goblin and they brought him back.
Does that mean we will never see a quote unquote MCU take on green goblin?
Cause we just kind of took her Ramy, goblin and MCU dish unified dish
or whatever, you know what I mean?
And so that's why, like when we had JB on her, we're talking about villains and I
was mentioning like, and I knew you had this hesitation about, and I said, Kevin
foggy, doesn't like to use villains.
That's been used.
Trey: Do you like my clarification in the moment now, now that we can talk about it?
Jude: Yeah.
Oh, I knew what you were getting at, but I was trying to ignore it.
I mean, I mean, the reason why I was trying to ignore it is cause like it
is that fine line of like, he doesn't reuse villains of like, he doesn't
like, we didn't see an MCU dot.
It was vulture.
It was Mysterio.
And if we're doing multi-verse, he's not reusing an old villain,
he's crossing multiverse of lines.
That character exists.
You know what I mean?
And so that's what I had in my head when I said that, what does that mean?
Now?
We'll never get a real original MCU take on that character.
That feels a little problematic for me.
You basically did Ramy part three again, and put a whole bunch of villains in it
that we see the one time and it's gone.
It was cool.
I loved it, but it, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so one of the problems I'm wondering, how does the MCU
and Kevin Vikki deal with it?
So
Trey: based off everything you just said that like, I have so many different
directions I want to go with first.
I'm so glad they have set down to establish rules for how they
want to handle the multi-verse.
Cause that seems to be important based off I've never seen any of the CW
shows have no plans to, but that seems really important based off what you
said, where it didn't seem like there was a plan and a few weeks ago, maybe
a month ago, I believe Joe Russo came out and spoke about how, if you just
keep doing the multi-verse eventually it's going to lose its luster.
It needs to feel like an event now I'm okay.
If this phase four really wants to hammer home the multi-verse cause it's
equal parts, flash and equal parts, like educating the audience and then maybe.
Not necessarily table it, but like make it less and less apparent until it builds
to whatever this new saga ends up being like the new Infiniti saga, like it's
somehow tied to the multi-verse, but we don't need to go through it again,
like in phase five, until we come back to hypothetically phase six, right on
top of that, you went into the route about the, does this mean if we get Hugh
Jackman saying multi-verse madness if we get that, does that mean we won't get
an original X-Men it makes me feel like some of the conversations we had with
Spider-Man no way home where I asked you, did we miss our shot with the sinister.
Like, what is it going to feel redundant to have got this team of, uh, five
villains and then maybe a few years later.
Oh, okay.
Now we're going to do six villains.
It, it just feels like it's kind of watered down the moment and to bring it a
little bit more back to the multi-verse.
What makes it extra hard to run this thought exercise with, there are feelings
that were done with Spider-Man just because of the license with, uh, or the
agreements with Sony where, you know, it's funny, no way homes become this polarizing
thing where half the people think like, oh, that was Spiderman sendoff in the MCU
saying like, we know we're not going to be able to control this character anymore.
And other people are like, no, they're gearing up for more Spider-Man movies.
This is clearly resetting them to play within the MCU without
having to be tied to other stories.
Jude: Yeah.
Right.
I I'm, I hope it's that I'm so excited that you're going to sever.
That Spiderman from the really good content they had in the MCU.
Why would we want that to be connected?
Yeah, please.
Let's let's, let's start over, you know, arguably the best take on
Spider-Man that we've seen on film.
Okay.
Trey: I think that's, future-proofing just in case heads at different
studios pulled their toys away.
All that being said, that's what makes it hard to be like a thought exercise.
Cause we don't know what's part of their rules as the multi-verse and
what's part of like them having to work with having this agreement with Sony.
Yeah.
Jude: I still, I still hate the nigga no way home.
Anyways, I just do it because it just, I don't see.
And I get it.
I'm not FYGI.
I mean, I know he listens.
Um, and I get it, like, you can be a super fan, but I just, I can't
see where they're going with it.
Cause I think Amy Pascal and Vikki came out and saying like, we don't worry.
Right?
Like this isn't the end.
We like, they tried to squash all that, that worrying
speculation and get ahead of it.
I just don't know how else to read that ending because that is, yes,
you are free from the MCU now.
No one remembers.
Right.
But also again, and that's fine, you know, unless they have some weird way
that they're gonna bring them back, you know, and these memories, but
so you mean to tell me now the really cool moment between.
Carol Danvers and Peter Parker.
What?
She doesn't remember that.
Hi, I'm Peter Parker.
Hello, Peter Parker.
You know, I get the, the criticism.
I don't agree with it.
The crew, citizen criticism of like iron man Jr.
You know, when the star tech and I get that,
the reason why I don't, I don't care about it.
It's because it is, it's a different take on Spiderman, right?
It's it's like, yeah, that's not what Spider-Man is in the comment
and there, and you could argue that like now he truly is his own person.
Right.
You know, I get it in the symbolism of like, I'm truly not with stark now
because I don't have his cool suit and I get the crappy one at the end.
I'm bitter right now, about as much as it lives in, maybe I'm
bitter about a lot of things.
Trey: Stay on target, stay on
Jude: target.
Yeah.
I mean, but like the it's like, did you, you undid like the pepper pots, new
Parker and the relationship there and the moments that they shared in grief
of Stark's death, he remembers it posh.
Doesn't like, you know what I mean?
And so there's all of that stuff that it's like, that's like, I don't like the story
where it makes all of that irrelevant.
And so that's, that's my, that's my thing of like, when you start going down these
roads and multi-verse when you start going down these roads of, of the time-travel
and again, multi-verse magic, we're going to do this and it opens up some doors
and possibilities, but soda's character development of like he says, no, I can't
run and just magically fix my problem.
I will face the consequences.
You know what I mean?
Like, to me that was a much better and more compelling ending of like where
the growth of the character goes.
Now, again, I w I don't want to, I'm going to side step away from Spiderman now for
a sec, you know, for, for the sake of the multi-verse in the episode, but it's like,
it's like, that's a choice that doing what I would rather have
happened had happened a choice that says here's the main MCU, right.
And this is what we're going to do in phase five.
As you said, we're going to emphasize the multi-verse and then
move on to something different.
You know what I mean?
Trey: Not necessarily that it's never talked about again,
it's just not the focus.
Jude: It's an awkward right where it's like right now, at least it
feels like they're really just.
It's a multi-verse and we're just going to play in this area forever.
Like that's the feeling, you know, if I, the Netflix shows now, which I
think are great, but are they going to explain that with the multi-verse theory?
Yeah.
So
Trey: there's, there's again, we're running all these thought experiments.
These are thought experiments that they, this is the meeting
apparently they had in July of 2021.
Uh, and I put a bow on that because I know you said you wanted to get to other stuff
for the sake of the multi-verse topic.
I still hold onto the belief.
Spider-Man no way.
Home is a reactionary thing to the disagreement between Disney and Sony.
And this was how they made nice to continue having Spiderman.
I think, despite I love no way home.
The.
Let's say thorns in our side of the way, this has come to an end
with, with the future of Spider-Man.
To me, that is a, a sign of what could go wrong when there isn't a plan, because it
felt like the plan was being made as the plane was still flying with Peter Parker.
Yeah.
All that being said, moving on, as we continue running thought experiments on
the different ways the MCU is handled the multi-verse right now, I actually want
to circle back to one division because the further we get away from it, and the
more that I've had time to think about it, it seems to keep getting grouped
into all these multi-verse discussions.
I don't think Wanda vision was as multi-verse as everybody makes it
to be, because the biggest aspect of what it was was Quicksilver.
But that turned out to not be the case.
It was another fake out akin to far from home.
I I'm putting this out there to kind of like run this experiment with you.
Do you consider one division to be multi-verse related?
Jude: I actually don't
Trey: the only caveat I would add to my belief of it not being, I think it
ends teasing the multi-verse, where she hears her two children as she's doing the
meditation while reading the dark hold.
But up until that point, nothing seemed multi-verse related to me because what
we find out is that she was warping the.
Simulations of that small town, she had enveloped.
So it wasn't necessarily like, oh, they're popping into different universes.
It's almost like she's running her own little computer program that
these, uh, citizens are playing
Jude: along with.
Yeah.
Like Westview was her creation using chaos magic.
Yeah.
And so there was no multi-verse stuff.
Uh, I agree in tag, they teased it, but that, to me, like the only
connection was you, she had the dark hold and she had her power upgrade.
Yeah.
The show itself, I don't think had anything to do with the, the
multiverse, you know, and I know.
Dr strange, where he is supposed to show up and different stuff
and trying to contact her.
Right.
And I'm glad that didn't happen.
I think that actually would have taken away from it.
Now that I think about the show and think about how not multi-verse it was,
Trey: yeah.
Kevin FIHI on the record, but I'll try to make sure to link
the report in the show notes.
Kevin fight you on the record mentioned what you had just said
about wanting to originally have Dr.
Strange, uh, appear in the show as the commercials, and then ultimately
decided to do away with that idea to keep it focused on Wanda.
Yeah.
Jude: And, okay.
So in talking about these shows low-key I think is the last, the
last one we should really make sure it gets mentioned and right.
Multi-verse wise the two biggest questions.
I think that's remaining at the end where it was low-key or when
was low-key it wasn't clear because it is the time variant authority.
So clearly.
So in other words, if you think about the TVA and what they were doing and
trimming, you know, and what I was mentioned about like, um, the flowing
river with divergence and to stick with that analogy, the TVA then is like the
rivers arched, a split here while they put a dam to make sure it can't, and then I'm
going to take all that water, scoop it up and just dump it in the void at the end.
You know what I mean?
Like, like that's kind of to maintain the one river and kind of control it.
Um, the
Trey: TVA is time beavers.
I love it.
Jude: Nice.
I want a picture of a beaver wearing a TVA hat.
I creating a dam.
Um, oh, if you're listening, TJ, uh, no, we should have
just had them on for this one.
I know.
He's like he's in his shop, cutting wood and listening to us and just like.
Trey: Yeah, there is a universe where we were able to stick to
our schedule and TJ was on there.
So states here and for whenever we get into our phase four and we
start bringing in episodes from that alternate universe, right.
Jude: You know what actually had to talk with TJ the other day.
And I was like, dude, we want you back as like, but I understand you're
getting busy and stuff and, you know, um, and yeah, he understood, but the
other thing on not to low-key thing, but w TVA clearly it's a place.
Where is it located?
Is it similar to what I said with, uh, the dark dimension?
Like it has to be located somewhere, you know?
Uh, cause you're what they had so many infinity stones and we
learned from plot holes, I guess.
I don't know.
We learned from Loki that no, from.
What if the infinity stones has to be in there for appropriate
universe for them to work, right.
I'm going to stop there cause I can really go down a rabbit hole
that I, we don't have time for.
Uh, but I think multi-verse wise.
Those are the two biggest questions.
The
Trey: only thing I want to play off of that you just sparked for me is when
you asked the question, low-key when it ends where or when is low-key as this
like an alternate universe, because if you don't remember how Loki ended.
In the original part of the show, they have these huge statues
dedicated to the timekeepers, Loki and Sylvia go about their ventures.
They meet up with, uh, he who remains.
They ultimately decide to kill him.
Loki gets pushed back into the TVA and when he gets back, it's
not timekeeper statutes anymore.
It's he who remains or making a speculative speculative jump Kang by
definition of the timekeepers, they have to exist outside the universes
because that's how they maintain a scope on which ones to prove.
Like, to me, it's, it's almost like the watcher where they have to be
outside of it all to have any sort of context for the different universes.
So it feels like it can't be an alternate universe that Loki has
been pushed back to because they're already outside of the universes.
If that makes sense.
So I'm very curious to see how that aspect of the multi-verse is
going to play out and what that means for the MCU moving forward.
Yeah.
Jude: And they have to have a plan.
Those will I say that is like, they announced season two.
That was the, I'm not going to say intact.
There was not an intact, that was like the graphic at the end of the credits.
Trey: Um, Loki we'll return.
I think they said Sylvie rule return or something like that.
But
Jude: I mean, but that's the, that's the thing, right?
Like that they, they announced in the last, in the last
episode, there's a season two.
How do you start developing and writing those scripts?
If you don't know what's happening in all these other movies, you know what I mean?
So, yeah.
Yeah.
You got to what, I guess he's the script writer just kind of waits.
Okay.
And you're gonna let me read the script now.
You
Trey: know, there's yeah, there's definitely no way they can pull
like a star wars, new trilogy.
Like they have to have this plan if it's going to make sense.
Cause it's not just telling one story, they're telling
multiple stories at this point.
If there's not a guiding force through it, that's going to get
very confusing very quickly.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we have gone through these different thought exercises.
You've detailed the nine different examples of the multi-verse that
we, in our limited, limited scope, understand it to be, we've talked about
the different ways that the MCU seems to be handling it with the different
in-house examples of the multi-verse think captain America agent, or think
captain America, captain Carter, Sylvie, Loki, all those are in-house examples.
Or you have the franchises, which is.
Tom Holland, Peter Parker, Andrew Garfield, Toby Maguire, Peter
Parker, all those different franchise hopping universes.
We've talked about the need for a cohesive plan to be able to guide
us through the multi-verse as they continue to tell their stories.
This brings us, I think, to one of the last thought experiments that I
want to have with the multi-verse.
Is Sam Raimi, Mark Webb and the Sony villain verse after no way home.
Now, part of the MCU and to be perfectly clear, this isn't like gatekeeping,
like Canon, what is, or it isn't, this is more to just help detail the
understanding that we have so far.
Do you think that's now part of the MCU cannon?
Oh,
Jude: I'm going to gatekeep and save.
Only because I've watched the Morbius trailer a couple of times,
and I don't want that crossing over.
Trey: I'm listen, I, my heart is actually where you're at and I'm totally going to
change, but it's more, it's more trying to like, what is the difference between
a plucked character and a constant.
Like, is there a difference?
Are we getting in the weeds?
Like the fact that venom was plucked out of his movies, into the MCU got drunk
and then was sent back to his universe.
Does that mean like, we don't have to be burdened?
I say we as though I'm part of Marvel studios.
Does that mean CU?
Uh, does that mean the MCU doesn't have to be burdened with whatever
storylines that have been told yet they can still find their way to
have the character come and play and then go back without getting muddied.
I think
Jude: the answer is yes.
Yeah.
And the reason why I say that is the way, because you just said venom was
plucked, came in the MCU and came out.
Right.
Well, we know that that's how they got venom into the MCU because
you had that little drop, a venom.
Is somehow in Mexico and going to find its way to Spider-Man.
It
Trey: was last seen with Denny Rojas.
Danny Rojas is going to meet up with Ted lasso.
Ted lasso is going to visit America when he comes back home.
And none of this makes sense to you until you watched it last night.
Jude: No, I haven't watched Ted lasso and you're right.
So none of that makes sense to me, but the idea that like Ted lasso
is in the MCU, I can go there.
I mean, that's not hard, right?
That's like, you know, Avengers compound, and they're watching one
of their football games on the TV and cheering on whatever English, premier
league, he team club coaches for.
Trey: Jokes aside.
I think it was very easy to say no villain verse, not Morbius has
its own complication with Adrian tombs, apparently showing up.
We don't really have a concrete answer for how Adrian Toomes shows up in
the Morbius universe because that's not taking into account no way home.
So that's still up in the air.
Let's move over to a fan.
Favorite Sam Raimi.
Those are good movies.
Yeah.
So it's, it's not even just like a, oh, that those movies sucked.
Don't bring them in these, you know, it, I'm still on that
same camp with the Raimi movies.
Yes.
Me McGuire has come into the MCU, but it being plucked from his own
universe has created a different one.
So for me, with my understanding of the multi-verse so far, that
doesn't necessarily mean now the Sam Raimi movies are MCU.
Jude: Right?
I would, I honestly, I would not consider him.
I would say, I just thought it was trying to decide if this is a
plot hole for no way home or not.
But anyways, does MJ and Ned not remember all Peter Parker's
or just their Peter Parker?
Trey: I would assume all Peter Parker's because that's what stops
the other villains and knowing Peter Parker from coming in.
Jude: So if that's the case, then I would say can't be Canon because
they don't remember it happened.
It's another universe.
And if there was a memory of them coming in, there's a knowledge
that that universe exists.
And while it's not MCU proper, there's a knowledge of the characters of knowing
that it exists because it came from.
Does that make sense?
But I don't know if you would say like the events that took place in those
universes are canned into the MCU.
There's just now knowledge because it crossed,
Trey: right.
Because they don't know Peter Parker, but they know Spider-Man fought
goblin doc from different universes.
Yeah.
Well maybe they don't know the different universes part,
but they know that happened.
Right.
So I guess it all just depends on how far the public knowledge goes
with the events of no way home.
Jude: Right.
And so like, if they forgot that, that even, even that any of that even happened
at the end, if that's, what's included in for getting Peter Parker, otherwise
you have three Spiderman running around and they don't know that they're Peter
Parker, but there's three, right.
There's three Spiderman running around and all of a sudden you were
there when they were sent back.
Yeah.
You or they, they vanished or vape, you know, ghost at all.
So you either had to forget that as well, or just know that there was Spiderman if
we get to the repeater parkers, but the only way that that's the thing, the only
way that they know about those characters is remembering the, those events.
Trey: Right.
Jude: If they don't remember them, they didn't happen.
Trey: I guess time's going to tell what that one, if we get more Spider-Man
movies to explore it in the MCU.
Yeah.
Jude: Do you know why it happened?
And you mean you wouldn't make my, to make my argument as to why now that
I've argued that it's not MC Canon, you want me to try to make an argument
that it is MC cannon go for it.
Okay, cool.
So, um,
I'm going to dip into my own personal thoughts a little bit on
like, and I've said it a couple of weeks, like I'm cannon, I'm kidding.
I'm Catholic, right?
Trey: You're a Canon.
And
Jude: you didn't tell me, was Dr.
Strange in the memory smell you need it.
Trey: Did you really just take a drink after?
Jude: So
Trey: you
Jude: were midpoint, um,
as mentioned, I do that all the time.
The only thing reason why, you know now is cause we had the video, the video
Trey: wasn't it's editor's choice.
If you want to find a creative way to keep this into the edit.
Jude: All right.
So my.
Now to try to argue that it is cannon.
Okay.
Yep.
And I made this whole thing about like memory and not remembering.
And if you don't remember it doesn't exist and yes, I've made
it known on the, on the podcast.
I am Catholic.
Right.
And just fact, yeah.
So in my own personal part of like justification for belief
and those types of things, right.
The whole like proof, the existence of God, you know, the most compelling one
to me and notice I'm saying the most compelling to me, I realize it's not
gonna be compelling to other people.
I realize you can question and all that stuff.
It's just what I find most compelling.
Right.
And I'm okay with that is, is actually an argument from memory.
And so the way it would go is to say we live and then we die.
And then we experienced what we, you know, a second death, so to speak, which
is the last time anybody ever says our name and the further away generationally,
like my kids all remember me.
Right.
But when they have grandkids, well, if I die before I have grandkids,
I have, before I have grandkids before my kids have crickets,
they're not going to know me.
They're only going to know me through stories of them and pictures.
Right.
And so that just speeds it up.
So eventually we can get far enough away from my first death and
second death that nobody remembers.
So at that point, if nobody remembers I existed and I really exist,
no one knows that I was alive.
And I was here that I didn't, you know what I mean?
So, I mean, in this sense, the pod is my posterity in mortality, my voice name
and all this stuff is going to be on the internet long after my death right now.
So now imagine like, you know, the peasants in England in like, you know,
Henry the eighth time, 1516th century, you know, back when yes, the winners, I
always find it funny who writes history, the winners, uh, let's be very clear.
It is the wealthy winners, the literate winners, not the poor winners.
Right.
You know, peasant, Bob is not writing a journal and we're not researching
peasant Bob, but let's take present.
We can imagine that there was a peasant at that time, 15 hundreds, you know,
maybe even participated in the Northern revolt against hinder the eighth.
I don't know.
I'm making something up.
I historically know about hinder the eighth.
I historically know the 16 hundreds happened.
I historically know about the Northern revolt against Henry the eighth.
I don't know every peasant that was involved or even the peasants are like,
whatever, dude, I just want to farm, you know, and do my part for society.
Cause divine right.
Of Kings God wills, it kind of thing.
You know what I mean?
And I don't know.
We don't know if they existed, nobody wrote about them.
Right.
And so you give them this point of like you, the further far enough you get away.
We it's, there's people that have existed that we don't remember.
And I'm in theory, bringing up this person.
Right.
So at this point in history, Did they really exist now?
And the reason why I put it that way is to say from the, my compelling proof
of God is to say, well, there's, I want to say that they do, but if we're
individual people with concrete experience experiences, you know, and, and, and truly
concrete, something has to remember us.
And that's something has God, right.
Is that compelling to everyone?
Probably not.
It's compelling to me.
You know, the reason why after my second death I am going to endure
is because God still remembers me.
And from a Catholic standpoint, we'd say, yeah, he in creation,
he is existence itself and holds everything continually in existence.
And the eternal now, and divine Providence for knowledge and all of that stuff.
So I made the argument that it didn't happen and not Canon because
no one remembers, but who did we say can go around and watch all
the dimensions and the water.
So there is somebody or something that does know what happened, even
if we don't and can in fact have a experience and memory of all those
universes, which then from a memory standpoint, it has to be cannon.
Is he our surrogate who gets to decide cannon?
Is it us as Watchers?
You know what I mean?
Like for something to have happened, we have to have known about it.
Right?
It has to have some kind of memory.
Otherwise it's just speculation.
You know, for me, I call that in our own experience.
God, but in the MCU, that's what the watcher does.
So if that's the case, then it has to be doesn't it, it has to.
So yeah, whichever one, you find more compelling, it may or may not
be compact or not meet Concannon.
Trey: You know what?
My favorite thing about this episode is so.
Well, I think we have condensed every forum argument about the multi-verse
about cannon into one episode.
So you're either like finding like aspects of what you're like.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or you're getting very frustrated and you pointed out, I think it's all just valid.
Like I can make, I can see the argument for like, oh, those aren't cannon.
And I just, you just blew me away with your argument on it is cannon.
Jude: Which one do you find most compelling and go
and go enjoy your content.
Oh,
Trey: man, that was great.
Like I, cause I've, I've talked about it before.
I think this happened whenever we were doing the, uh, How important
are the Disney plus shows my goal.
Whenever it comes to building a structure of an episode is like, I want to have
not necessarily a definitive answer, but I want to have an answer towards
what the thesis of the episode is.
But I think sometimes you run into these scenarios where it is like,
yeah, it's, it's hard to tell and I'm not dogging this episode.
I'm just glad, like, I, that was, that was a fun divergence.
We just took throughout every possible example of the multi-verse.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, I would like to think big Sandy.
No,
Trey: um, you just blew my mind.
So that was a, that was really good.
Thank you for sharing that.
Jude: I appreciate that.
I'm ha you know what, that's why I'm here.
I'm here.
Certainly not.
Well,
well the first one.
Okay.
Trey: Yeah.
Bring them on.
Maybe there is an alternate universe where we do have sponsors
Jude: unlimited Topo Chico.
Trey: Well, if you want to weigh in on some of the thought exercises
that we had today, uh, feel free to reach us at MC need to know
both on Twitter and Instagram.
Before we go, though, we mentioned at the top of the
episode, this is moon night week.
So we wanted to take a survey of where people are coming into the show in regards
to their knowledge of the character.
We're going to read through some of the responses we got when we asked that on
social media, starting with this one, he's been one of my favorite characters
since the 1970s and eighties, he was just so different from anyone else
I read when I was a kid that comes in from, at S S Lilo's on Twitter.
And so I had the chance to interact with them from our Twitter account.
And it was just so exciting that this person has known about this character
for so long and just kind of like vicariously living through them of
like, man, I can only imagine what that feeling is like to have been familiar
with the character and now seeing it being adapted for our screens.
Jude: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Cause I I'll be honest for the, for the comics that I did read growing up,
moon Knight was not one of them, you know, and I don't mean that in like.
Oh, man.
I, it just wasn't, you know, I was much more mainstream and actually probably
read more DC when I was younger.
Uh, the next one, not at all.
Kevin watched Instagram.
Um, clearly Kevin, I just said like, I I'm with you on that.
Trey: This next one comes in from Ben dot Mattie on Instagram.
And it says, I know the basic bits, it's the MCU who knows
what's going to happen to him.
Ben, Maddie, I think has one of the most realistic approaches so far.
Like yeah, but again, it's probably going to be different.
It has the source material of the comics, but you know, who knows?
Jude: Yeah.
Well, and, and the thing, what I love about that though, and you know, I've
been, Maddie has responded enough that I feel like I can say this without
coming across as putting words in your mouth, there's still a trust
that like, even with the changes.
They're going to be good.
Like they've earned.
That doesn't mean it won't, it doesn't mean they can't disappoint
us, but they've earned it.
They earned the trust on the changes
Trey: 100%.
Jude: Okay.
That was it.
My time.
Did you, you just should've been Maddie.
Yeah, very, because I listened to MCU.
J Hubbard on Insta.
Trey: I love that you have started to, uh, respond to the
questions that we put out there.
Jude: I completely, I completely didn't think you're going to respond back.
Like I thought you were just going to kibble and not even there.
I didn't, I actually didn't expect to see it on the side of this, the, uh,
outline or in the Instagram response
Trey: one.
That was one of the reasons why I was totally comfortable
with being like, oh yeah, your checks in the mail on Instagram.
Cause I would not have made that joke with any of the other listeners too.
I've put it on the outline, but I didn't run through the turns that we took.
I did not intend for you, but that is so funny.
Oh man, that is so good, but good.
I'm glad he listened to the show.
So that's a, that's why you're very familiar with.
Thanks to JB.
Absolutely moving onto the next one.
This one comes in from caption life on Instagram as well.
And it reads not at all reading some comics now for it.
And again, that's, that seems to be Shawn's emo is the, uh, the research
before the dive into the show.
So that's really cool.
And, uh, glad to hear you're going through the comics.
Yeah.
Oh, it's
Jude: so funny.
Cause like, I kind of feel like I'm the opposite.
How so?
Like if I haven't read the, if I haven't read the comic, I'm
like, I'm going to experience the show and I'll do the comic after.
So it's just interesting.
It's just interesting.
The interesting, the different types of approaches to, um,
Trey: I think that's the spirit of the show that we've tried to created
here is that like we're MCU first and we'll come back to the comics at some
point, uh, maybe dabble into some pretty broad knowledge, but uh, I'm with you.
I'd rather experience it through the MCU first and then read comics later.
I
think
Jude: about like civil war, because I did read that.
An infinity war and I read that comic.
And so I've had the experience of both.
Um, and so I just, I find that fascinating and interesting of like, just again, how
people like to consume their content,
vague memories of comics from childhood friend Daniel.
I get it.
I mean, I'm getting old too.
And memories of a lot of things.
Trey: I had vague memories of when we started this episode.
So, uh, yeah, that one comes in from old Daniel on Instagram.
Oh man.
He's going to hate me.
Yeah.
Jude: But no, I mean, it's the same thing.
Like it just goes to show like what I was saying earlier about yeah.
I read some comics, but that wasn't mainstream.
Characters, right.
Like, I wasn't, well, I read comics.
I wasn't so into it, like where I'm getting the moon nights.
I was like, no, I'm getting X, man.
I'm getting Batman, I'm getting Superman, you know?
Oh, here's a cool Spider-Man issue.
You, you know what I mean?
Like it wasn't like, Ooh, moon night and, and, you know,
grabbing Robbins of the thing.
That weren't hitting the mainstream.
Um, I have my theories as to why, but we're at the end of the episode.
So I'm gonna leave that alone.
Cool.
Well,
Trey: we'll revisit that at some point, so yeah, again,
thank you all for reaching out.
When we asked, uh, how familiar you are with moon night, going into the show
again, moon night, debuts, March 30th.
So the next time you hear us, we are going to be reviewing the first episode of
moon night and we are both very excited.
Jude: Absolutely.
Trey: Yeah.
So again, if.
Again, if you want to get in, on helping shape the show, make sure
you're following us at MC you need to know both on Twitter and Instagram.
We'll be putting out questions and polls and just various opportunities
for you to weigh in so that we can read them here on the podcast.
Jude: Yeah.
And of course, scroll down to the bottom.
You can find the link to the discord in our show notes and you can join us and
interact with, I always feel guilty saying this because I have not been interacting
as much as I been, but interact with us, interact with the community.
The school year is coming close to an end for me.
And I'm so excited to start ramping back up my conversations on that.
Uh,
Trey: it's almost going to be like a Baton pass.
You're you're about to get some free time I'm about to enter my busy
Jude: season.
Right.
And it's like, I was like, oh gosh, just make it here.
Make it here.
Be done with my grades.
You know, uh, cause I miss it, but there's a lot of great
conversations going on in there.
Um, and those of you that are already in there, I do try to catch up and read,
uh, super excited to get back on it.
If you weren't a discord kind of person, that's okay.
You can still help us out by sharing with a friend, a rating and review apple
and Spotify as well as it's something that they've offered about a month now.
Um, yeah.
So yeah, that is a fantastic way.
If discord is not your thing.
Yeah.
Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which
is his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You can find more of his work on a SoundCloud, which is linked
in the show notes as well.
That's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and June.
Thank you so much for doing this.
We'll see.
Well,
Jude: Now there is one thing that I, as I start talking and very
unprofessionally foot hold up.
Yeah.
Trey: All the red flags in my head just went off.
I was like, oh no, he's got something in his mouth.
Oh no, he's getting away from the mic.
Jude: Oh no, he's standing up.
Yeah.
Like I start talking and come back out of my paws and I put like one my
earbuds in my mouth, which is gross.
And then like, I like stand up and you hear the search and
you hear the squeaky, my chair.
And, and as soon as I started it, I'm like, what, what am I doing?
Trey: Wait, you know, most people have a microphone, but it turns out UCAR vocoder.
When it comes to talking on the podcast, you think it'll be easy to learn how
to auto tune before this episode comes
Jude: out.
Maybe.
All
Trey: right, you get to.