DH - Carl Long
===

[00:00:00] 

What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality. 

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms 

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a global business leader who leads with both vision and heart. I'm excited for this conversation because his career has taken him all over the world, and also started at relatively the same time as mine. From overseeing operations in India and Latin America, to leading major hospitality, casino, senior living, and entertainment projects here in the United States.

He's a hospitality industry expert, a trusted [00:01:00] voice, and very passionate about purchasing and project management. He's a global business leader with a passion for growth and innovation as well, and he is someone who values relationships, culture, and people just as much as results. He's also, which I can't wait to d- to pull this one a-apart with him and dig in here, he's an advisor to the Richardson High School Hospitality School in Richardson, Texas.

He's on the board of the Indian Gaming Association. He is on the American Hotel Lodging Association, or AHLA as we all know it, Design and Construction Committee. He's the past president of ISHP, and now he serves as CEO of PMI and PMI Tribal Services. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Carl Long. Welcome, Carl.

Carl Long : Hey, thanks Dan. Good to be here

Dan Ryan: So that's one of the longer introductions I've done for anyone of however many conversations that we've done here. And what I love about it, and I think I wanted to make it really long because we literally started at exactly the same [00:02:00] time in this industry, right? Maybe within a month or two

Carl Long : Yeah, exactly

Dan Ryan: And so in a way, I wanna feel like I've accomplished as much as you've accomplished.

So thank you for letting me give you a longer than normal introduction. And I also want the-- every-- all the listeners to know, I was talking to Carl, it was within the past year, I don't remember exactly where, but he said something to the effect of, "Oh, you've been in this industry for two project years."

And I'm like: What are you talking about? I think it's been like 20 or 30 years. What do you mean two project years or three project years? But it's, it's that turn of the zodiac. It's like, oh yeah, so many of the projects we started doing, Carl and I, are up for their second or third renovation, and it kind of ties into-- there's like a 12-year cycle also, right?

So it's kind of like the zodiac as well, and I call it a turn of the zodiac. You call it a project year, but I think what it means is just our hair [00:03:00] is getting grayer and we're getting older, but with that, we gained so much experience. And by virtue of your intro being so long, so many of the things that you're involved in in our industry and also outside have nothing to do with, like, your actual business, right?

You're trying to impact others and shorten other people's journeys, which really resonates with-- is resonant with me. So thank you for coming on. Thanks for being, like, a colleague on this journey with me. And, uh, yeah. Welcome

Carl Long : Thanks, Dan. Uh, it's, it's been, it's been a lot of fun. I mean, you're right. We've, we've been doing it for basically the same amount of time, and it's been, it's been a lot of fun to just be, be part of good projects, be part of good teams, and, and basically just to grow up in the business

Yeah

to see where, where we were, where we are, and everybody that we've been able to get to know and just have them be part of our lives, be part of their lives, and be part of great, great things in the industry.

It's a [00:04:00] fun-- It's a really fun business to be part of. It's a really fun industry to be part of, and, and we just get to know great people.

Yeah.

A, it's a blast

Dan Ryan: Well, and, and the umbrella under which it all sits and all the organizations that you're involved in, it's hospitality, right? So what is h- what, what about hospitality has kept you? Like, what does hospitality mean to you? Why hospitality?

Carl Long : if I was, again, if I was to define that h- define hospitality, I would-- I just find it as making room for others. Really being considerate of people in what, what you're doing. And either if it's in your home, if it's in your business, if it's in, uh, a hotel where when you are others focused, you say, "Hey, how can we make this a good thing for you?" Asking the question: how can I help you make this memorable, make this comfortable, make this safe, make this edifying? [00:05:00] And all of those things wrapped up, it really is, it, it's an active noun.

Yeah

them hospitality. You are, um, and making it something that where when, when they leave, like, "Wow, I felt like I was home. felt like I belonged there. I felt like these are my people, I would love to come back." And you can do that at a, you can do that at a hotel, you can do that at a restaurant, you can do that at a business, you can do that at a school. And really it's that act of just making room for others

Dan Ryan: What's interesting about the making room for others, I don't know if everyone can-- if you're watching this, over Carl's, I think your right shoulder, there's some photos. And there's one of two people, I can't tell, with hard hats and shovels. At a groundbreaking perhaps?

Yeah.

So in the sense that like in what you do, you're making room for others, you're, you're, you're part of hospitality.

But it's also what many [00:06:00] people and even competitors of mine who want to get into hospitality in the, on the furniture side of things, what they don't understand is, okay, it's all well and good and we're making these great places, but it's also schedule driven, right? There are-- You're in this crucible of a Gantt chart, and if you don't make it happen, as much as you want to see everyone and hear everyone, time is money, and if you miss a date, there's cascading effects and it impacts the, the asset that we're all working on.

So wait, where's that picture from, first of all? Who's in it?

Carl Long : Oh, it's, it's me and Grace. We are, are breaking, breaking ground on a hotel we're building

Dan Ryan: Oh, great. Where is it?

Carl Long : Out in East Texas, Mount Pleasant.

Dan Ryan: Oh, great

Carl Long : we, we have always been hotel adjacent. And then about two and a half years ago, I said, "Hey, we-- let's build one of our own." And so

Dan Ryan: Oh, that's awesome. I had no idea. Okay, this is amazing. So you and Grace are building-- You're [00:07:00] developers now too?

Carl Long : Yeah, I know, right?

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow. Okay. So

Carl Long : what?

Why don't I just add on

Dan Ryan: yeah, pile it on. So the other thing is, how do you-- So how do you balance that for, okay, we're working within hospitality, it's, it's making room for others, it's seeing them, it's like, it's, it's a, it's as much a, a verb as it...

It's more a verb than it is a noun, it f- in your own words. But also you have to balance that with getting things done, right? And being there on time and, and all of the different surprises that we might e-examine. So on a day-to-day basis, and I'd love also if maybe you could frame that up, 'cause when you first started, you said, "You know, it's really about where we were versus where we are."

So if you think about that tension or the balance between hospitality and getting things done and where you were versus where you are, how have you, how do you keep that balance balanced? And how have you seen the evolution or [00:08:00] the, uh, the transition from when we started to where you are now?

Carl Long : a lot of it is, really just trying to maintain perspective. And when you are-- when you're moving fast and you're moving, trying to move a lot of things at once, going down either on a project, on a call, on heck just your day to-- or driving, even, even just driving down a highway. When you're going at, depending on who you are, you're going at 60 or 100 what highway you're at, you don't look at the trees right by you. You have to look at where you're going.

Mm-hmm.

And that just is, is that perspective of understanding what's coming and then having the ability to say, "Okay, I see this coming, and now let me prepare for it."

Hmm

you and I... I mean, when we first started, it was drinking from a fire hose, and everybody has that. You go into a new business, you go into a new project, you go into a new situation, and there is a sense of, how do I [00:09:00] handle all of what's going on? How do I coalesce all of these moving parts and gain that perspective?

And that perspective just comes with experience. It comes with time. It comes with, I've seen something similar to this, or I know somebody who, who lives in that world day to day and is a great advisor, is a trusted advisor. And being able to have those people speak into both your project experience but also in just your day-to-day how to manage it, that's huge.

I mean, you can, you can t- feel when somebody is-- has that calming effect, has that calming mindset,

Hmm

and approaches things in a, in a systematic way, but still has approach it, still has a kindness about them, still has a mentor perspective about them, where you can go, there's a fork in the road, you can either go that scorched earth, I hate you, and I, and you're gonna have to fix something, or let's collaborate.

We ha- we-- [00:10:00] nobody goes into things wanting to do a bad job. Nobody goes into things wanting to, um, damage anybody.

Dan Ryan: Well, I, some peop- I think some people want to do it to just win a project, right? And they don't know what they're getting into. I don't think their intention is to mess everything up, but I just think that they're not looking down the-- I love the looking down the road metaphor. They're, they're, they're taking a very short-term view and not a long-term view.

And

Carl Long : Oh, you're

Dan Ryan: this goes into also a multi-generational business as well. I-- Okay, so I love this one saying, I don't know if it's true or not, where they were talking about the power of compounding interest in money and how, um, Albert Einstein said that that's like the most incredible idea that he doesn't understand, right?

That, that, that how inter- money compounds with interest over time. And I think that something that's more powerful, and I think Einstein would agree, is how relationships compound, right? Speaking from [00:11:00] a multi-generational business as well. And to me, that long-term view has so much to do with the relationships, and those relationships are really the fabric that keep our industry ticking.

Your thoughts?

Carl Long : Yeah, you're sp- y- y- you're, you are exactly right because those relationships allow you to overcome the hard things that occur on a project. allow you to do it with that, that level of kindness and trust,

Mm-hmm.

That level of understanding. And I know you're, I know you're in this with me. I know you know, I know you know how to solve the problem. I know you're willing to solve the problem, or you're willing to help me solve the problem. And so those relationships, they have to s- they obviously have to start somewhere, so you don't-- nobody ev- nobody can come in and say, "Hi, nice to meet you. Now we have 20 years of history together." It comes over time, comes over effort, and when you do that, relationships w- are what make, make great projects easy to [00:12:00] move ahead. I would say that when the, the idea of those compounding relationships, it, it goes in... It, they become relational, not transactional. And I think when you, when you were saying some people in your space that, that are trying to get in the business, they don't know what they're getting into. And we've seen that.

We've seen, we've seen new companies come in and say, "I, I wanna do hotels. I wanna... How do I, how do I get in and, and do all these projects?" I said, "Well, it's, it's a lot of hard work and, and you're probably not gonna get the, the bang for your buck on the first one." 

Oh, yeah

get-- you're not gonna be able to fully understand the, the, the path you're walking initially. So being able to kind of understand that, that process, it just takes, again, it takes time.

And 

takes- 

Dan Ryan: actually-- I think the first project that I ever worked on, it was 2001 or 2002 with Tamara Seipel from [00:13:00] Hirsch Bedner, HBA in San Francisco, and you guys were purchasing it, and it was for the Watermark Hotel on River Walk in San Antonio.

A guy

And I'm so glad the Knicks beat the Spurs this year, so thank, thank-- San Antonio, thank you for being my first entrée into the first project one, um, but I'm so glad we defeated you, and that felt very good.

But I just remember getting a call that there were these big wardrobe units and the, the bun legs were breaking. I'm like: What? How is that possible? They're like solid legs. And then I went down, and the installer was, like, pushing them over the threshold and cracking them. So then I was like, "Okay, what..." I flew down there.

It was, like, Christmas or just after Christmas or just before Christmas, and I went to Grainger or White Cap, I don't remember which one, but one of those building supply things, and I got a stubby pallet jack, and I bought it. It was so heavy to get into the site, and I brought it over to the installer and was like, "Use this if you're gonna do it.

Keep it in a room." [00:14:00] And then it kinda shut the noise down. But it was also just like, I didn't-- no one told me I needed to do that, but I just knew that this was my first, and I had to go above and beyond and just make it happen

Carl Long : Well, that, that-- it's that willingness to jump in, willingness to say, "Here's, here's, here's... I wanna be part of the solution.

Hmm

I wanna be part of the team. I wanna, I want to understand really what, what it is to s- help, help move it ahead." And lot of people through, through the years demonstrated that willingness,

Hmm

and demonstrating that willingness to, to help on a problem. And at the same time, I, I, I try to default to believing the best about people. I try to default, "Hey, you, you're going in here with the best intentions."

Yeah

And when you go into it with that type of perspective, you look and you say, "Hey, we, we can do [00:15:00] this."

Yeah

the other part. When, when we had, we had somebody in here speaking the other day is, um, they were asking about superpowers.

Like ev-every in our staff, we had a, we had somebody talking about leadership and kind of personal growth, one of the questions that, um, that he asked was, "If you had a superpower, what would it be?" And I, I, that's not a question I've thought of. Um, and my wi- I asked my wife later that night and she goes, "Well, Carl, if, if I were to say yours, it's kind of a, a willingness to try."

It's, it's just, well, yeah, that's, we can do it. What, what's preventing us from being able? 

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, that's also just the entrepreneurial mindset. And, uh, to be an entrepreneur, it's not like-- Some people think to be an entrepreneur, you have to start a business or go out and, like, come up with some new crazy idea. Okay, yeah, you can come up with a new crazy idea within an existing business because basically, to me, the definition of entrepreneur is anyone who is trying to come up with an idea or solve a problem [00:16:00] with limited resources, right?

You're ju- And in order to do that, it's exactly as Grace says, right? It's to try things. Like, why not? And yeah, you can try and iterate and, okay, that didn't work, but let's try another one. I think-- So I really, I love that, and I think this has come up. People have asked me what my superpower is, and I'm like, "Oh, I don't know."

But then I think, if I think about it, it's, um, really hearing what's unsaid, especially when there's a problem. 'Cause, like, if there's a big problem, like those cracking things or, uh, or like the longshoremen strike that we had at The Palace, like the first time, like the whole West Coast shut down in the middle of a couple hundred room project.

Or just other failures in the field. It's, you have all the stakeholders around, and I, I'm very good at hearing, 'cause e-everyone is relational, and sometimes they're scared to say who it is, and I'll be like: "Look, that's my issue. I'll take it." I call it entering the [00:17:00] danger, 'cause people talk around it, and just go.

Because then we can all just solve for whatever is there, and we can try different things. But as l- Being able to try things and also hearing what's unsaid, I think is a really good recipe for a success- a successful career, not just a project.

Carl Long : Well, Dan, I, I think that the interesting part there is when you ask about people that wanna get in what that, what that looks like to be in the hospitality industry and hospitality design industry in particular, it's, it's your willingness to actually step into that. Because when you-- There are financial implications. There's, there's risk, and being able to say, "Hey, I, I own this part. I'm willing to help." When we started, that was-- That of trust between everybody involved was significantly higher than I think it is now

Dan Ryan: What do you think is the reason for that?

Carl Long : I think it's a, [00:18:00] uh, a flood of documentation.

I think it's an over-- it's the over-litigation and over-documentation of every single dot and tittle in, a project. And so that leaves for incredibly, an incredibly small amount of gray area, which isn't bad, but what happens is those gray areas become much more fraught with tension and much more fraught with disagreement.

And so the understanding, one, how to eliminate the gray area, do it in a way that still promotes collaboration, that's your, that's the big challenge in our market right now, is this over-overflow of information. And every-- and, and I've, I've heard, I've heard you say this, where we over-communicate,

We o- we are out in, in front of problems, which that, that again, that long-term perspective. "I see this coming. There's a problem, guys. Let's talk about it." Stepping into that danger, that's 100% right. The challenge becomes when I [00:19:00] see this problem coming and everything around it also compounds into the information that has to be dealt with, as opposed to distilling to what is the actual issue?

Mm.

What do we need to deal with to move it forward? Let's not spin around about this side and this side and this side. Who actually needs to make the decision? What is the way to move ahead together?

Dan Ryan: It is in-- it is interesting, like I, I just watched The Odyssey. It's one of my favorite books, poems of all time, and I just watched it and they didn't-- this is more like an offshoot story from The Odyssey, but when Agamemnon comes back with Cassandra, she's the one that has like the power of foresight and sees his death, and she's always crying and upset, and she's like, "Your wife is going to kill you."

Like, she sees that all happening. And in my mind, there's so many times where we, you and I, we may see the problem way out there, and this is [00:20:00] the frustrating part. We see it, we vocalize it, like, "This is going to happen," but then other people at the table, they're just-- they, their head's in the sand or they, they're just not listening, and then it becomes this huge issue that we have to talk about later.

And I, I like being Cassandra

But it's also frustrating when people don't listen to our, our gray hair, 'cause that's really where all the gray hair came from

Carl Long : Yeah, 100%. I, I, I-- That's a shock 'cause I have significantly more gray hair than you, so I, I, get it. No, it's... You're, you're exactly right. Like the, again, that, that idea of how do we get out ahead of these things?

Mm-hmm.

And the, the, the smoothest projects that we've ever been part of have been those where it's, it's led by somebody who understands that can't just make these decisions, one, in a vacuum, and you can't just make them immediately. Taking the [00:21:00] opportunity to say, "Okay, there is something, there are things coming. How do we get out ahead of them? Let's identify them. Let's address them. if we don't address them, don't let them just fall off the list." So we actually can be part of, uh, regularly, regularly scheduled programming

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Carl Long : where what, what are the issues coming?

What are the issues that are, that are approaching that we may not have thought about? then building in time and a schedule to then adjust for the unknown. Because not everything can be u- not everything can be known, not everything can be, um, planned for as much as architects like to be able to assume it can. You-- Not everything can. So you have to build in both contingency in your schedule and your contingency in your budget for the longshoreman strike, tariffs, getting cau-caught in the Suez Canal, the Strait of Hormuz closing,

Or, or just other things [00:22:00] where, you know what? We, we love this, and I wanna make it pivot

Dan Ryan: But I also, I also think a lot of it comes down to transparency as well, because oftentimes we can see these, but I know there's a lot of-- there could be over-- there is overcommunication, but I feel as if, if we see that train wreck or that iceberg way out there in the future, so if we're just transparent with everyone and it just everything gets communicated upward in the correct way, at least we know about it and it doesn't come as a surprise.

I think maybe, maybe what I found in that, in that superpower of just hearing what's unsaid is that the more we can share and be transparent, I think unconsciously we're all able to be ready to adapt or pivot, like you just said, when that challenge comes. But we all have to be looking way down the road and seeing what that challenge is

Carl Long : Well, you have to be, you have to be looking down the road [00:23:00] and at the same time trust that the people there

Hmm.

Also with you and being transparent. And it's, it's that, it's the relational aspect of a project. It's the relational aspect of what, what do we need to accomplish and how can we do it together?

Yeah

What do we need to be, um, thinking about? And knowing that you have a team of people that really are engaged in what you do. It's not just, "I need this widget on this day." It's, "We all need these things in this sequence to accomplish what we have to do." And, and the various aspects of everybody on a project is, is what's needed.

And that goes from, from the very first initial, like, permit guy to the opening housekeeper in one of the suites making sure that the, the coffee service and the room is styled correctly.

Mm-hmm.

So those, those level of [00:24:00] detail, you have to make sure that everybody is, um, transparent, but, but understands the goals and understands kind of where everybody needs to be.

Because if you, if you're not, then, then things aren't clear. And the lack and, and lack of clarity in terms of goals, in terms of where you need to be, often just creates those delays. And so

Dan Ryan: Hmm. One of the th- one of the things 

love it 

that surprises me that I get all the time, and I'm sure you probably get also, is, "Hey, Dan, what do you do? What do you do for a living?" I'm at a cocktail party. I'm like, "Oh, uh, I furnish hotels." And they're like, "So who do you-- So you sell to Marriott? You sell to..." And I'm like, "No, there's like a designer, there's a purchaser, there's an owner.

We'll hire a whole team, and then we bid on things, and then we execute it. We do a model room. We, you know, we get it there, we get the whole rollout hopefully, and then we're just there. But we're also just, like, trying to get ahead of all these issues 'cause they [00:25:00] come up, and just make sure that the hotel gets opened on time."

Now you in procurement, project management and procurement, um, you must get that also, 'cause I think people just don't know that this whole world in hospitality design exists. So do you get that? Like, do you get that a lot?

Carl Long : All the time.

Hmm.

All the time. And what, what... My s- my kids say that I'm a spy

Dan Ryan: ' cause you lived in India forever and

Carl Long : I, I, I, I'm, I'm often on the road

to random places. I know I travel internationally and I, and I get things from places where they need to be when they need to be there.

Yeah

so it's, it sounds like a great cover for a, uh, for a spy.

Dan Ryan: Yes

Carl Long : we, uh... But yeah, I get, I get that question all the time when I say, "What do you do?"

I say, "I'm in the hotel business. I'm in, I'm in the hospitality industry." They

Dan Ryan: And then they're like, "Well, what does that mean? Like, what do you do?"

Carl Long : And I say, "Well, I help furnish hotels." I said, "If you-- Nobody ever thinks how [00:26:00] a, a desk chair or a nightstand gets in a room.

I'm the guy that gets it there."

Yeah

And so the, the challenge with hotels is everybody thinks it's, "Oh yeah, you work for those big brands. You work for the, um, work for the furniture shop. You work for a furniture company." And ultimately 95% of what's made in a hotel is made to order

And so even a, even brand standard product is made to order. So that hotel, that brand standard hotel in, um, in upstate New York will have cust-- Will have contract-made furniture for that hotel, whatever brand it is, made for it the exact same time, but, but differently, just slightly, than the hotel in San Diego and, and everywhere in between. So you're looking at the idea of that consultative part, and you do this when you're supplying furniture. We do this on scheduling and [00:27:00] developing a sourcing strategy and being a, being a resource for owners that are really taking a big risk in terms of the planning side. So you have the pre-development, what's that planning look?

What is schedule? Where do you wanna source from? What, what is your risk tolerance from where and how you're doing things? And then all the way through to delivery and installation, where when you get to the point of completion, how do you deal with the, the one or two pieces that just either weren't right, were damaged, broken, or just weren't

Dan Ryan: You blame the purchaser

Carl Long : Yeah, of course. That's why we- we- we-- rolls downhill. So... Which is, which is true. I mean, ultimately, that's, that's our job, is to make sure things are there and, and then we go out and say, "Okay, well, how do you solve it?"

Yeah.

But the, the crazy part

Dan Ryan: really you blame the manufacturer. So, you know, like

Carl Long : Well, no, 'cause you can't, you can't make what you can't make what you didn't

Yeah

right?

So legitimately, I, and, and I tell w- that's, that's a regular part of our conversation [00:28:00] is when things go wrong, and they will, is how to effectively handle those problems. And I-- Dan, you're, you, you being able to, like you said, step in that danger, hear the unsaid, and, um, really navigate those relationships, I think that's, that's a wonderful way, a wonderful skill.

And 

Let me, ask you

I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell our staff to start listening like that. That's so

Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's, it's great because then it's like you, if you can br- if you can take that step to entering the danger and, and just, okay, this is an uncomfortable part, but like, it just gets everyone closer to finding a solution and ultimately managing the risk on a project. This is-- I've heard this said a bunch recently, I don't know where, but I, I've, I've brought this up, but I've heard people refer to Jeff Bezos saying this, that other people's margin is my opportunity, right? In the sense that a retailer is making a huge margin, a bookseller is making a huge [00:29:00] margin on selling this product.

Amazon can come in and, like, be more efficient and make it his opportunity. Every cycle, right, we talk about project years.

Mm-hmm.

We're entering our third project year maybe, right?

Carl Long : right

Dan Ryan: Or we're in it. We're in the middle or starting our third.

One. Yeah.

Yeah. 

Yeah 

we're in the first three innings of our third project year

In many of those-- And those project years kind of tie into real estate cycles also, or the debt cycle. Every couple of cycles or every cycle, some of the, the bigger furniture players or FF&E players are like, "Oh, yeah, we wanna go do hotels." Even like the Wayfairs and like all these other companies. And I think what they find is that margin is not there.

And all of the headache and heartache of getting those things open and taking that long term, it's, it's a very difficult [00:30:00] business. And, and I know that, you know, with AI and Amazon and all, all the things that are out there, um, and this could be hubris on my own part, but I just am curious what your impression is on why we have not been disrupted yet

Carl Long : It's, it's really funny you mention that, Dan. Actually, it's not funny because there's opportunity. Like it, it's, it's the, the, the talk of the moment. And, and we're seeing it, um, we're seeing it presently where I, I think that, that there is a, there is disruption coming. I think that there is, there are people in our companies that are actively working to find where that space is, and it's going to be related to AI.

It's gonna be related to increased efficiency. Um, but where I think the gap is, is the, is a high-risk, [00:31:00] low-margin business

Dan Ryan: Thank you. That's the word. That's what I was looking for. Okay. Yes

Carl Long : And, and, and so that's not, that is not the business that that, that, that say, "Oh, I'm gonna get in that furniture business. There's massive revenue. There's massive..." but it's so dispersed, so distributed, so, granular and so incredibly local that the locus of power and decision-making, the

locus of, of influence requires the relational aspect of what we do.

Mm-hmm.

It requires that for project years' worth of time.

Yeah

It req- It requires the, um, the knowledge base of, the lady that runs our, the lady that runs our operations, she has probably moved furniture around the world most people have [00:32:00] ever thought was possible

in terms of- 

Dan Ryan: that's actually a-- So one of the thoughts I've been think- I've been messing around with for a couple years is, I'm gonna make up a number. Let's say there's five million furniture factories in the world. That could be from someone's garage to a multi-million square foot completely automated IKEA factory, right?

And I would say of those five million, let's say there's 500 that really can do short bursts of custom production with different materials from wood, wood, metal, da, da, da. 500 globally with efficiency, quality, timelines, all the things that, that we require. I think that... And, and factories inherently, maybe not the garage factories, but like any factory [00:33:00] tends to be super efficient, right?

In the sense that if they sto- if a factory stops getting an order today, no more orders are coming today, by the time that pr- that last order runs through that factory, there shouldn't be a screw left in the factory, right? 'Cause everything... There, there shouldn't even be sawdust, 'cause that's all sent off to incense makers or fertilizer, whatever.

It-- They're super efficient. So really, all of that automation and AI, and I'm gonna like tongue in cheek, that's enabled on the blockchain, that has to happen in all the stuff that we're doing to shorten that journey, to get it ready for that factory to start making sawdust. And that's the value add that we all do from a risk management perspective.

And yes, there are significant gains that can happen, but once that, once that factory starts processing that order, like it's super efficient and it's already super automated. But what we've found is that you [00:34:00] need people to be there on the factory side and on the, on the supplier side, speaking of Burr and Falke also, just to like make sure that everything is being done the way it's supposed to be done, and all from managing risk and time, 'cause time is money.

So I don't mean to say that we're not gonna get disrupted, but I do think that we're all using all of these tools that are available on the back of the blockchain, just kidding, to make sure that our hotels get opened on time and that we're main- and that we're maintaining these relationships of these real assets

Carl Long : Well, that, that becomes, that, that is-- that's the hinge that this whole, whole inflection point operates on. And that, that type of understanding of the how to use the tool to leverage the experience, that's where it-- that's really where the value becomes,

Yeah

And [00:35:00] it's, and, and it's not that margin that, that see in some, in, in we're trying to shrink that margin. Ultimately, it's that last mile of delivery. It's that

Yes

10 miles of pre-planning

Yeah.

That has to be done.

Yeah

And you can't that, that the idea of being able to fully automate it, with the rapidity that AI is learning, some of the administrative tasks you can automate. That, that's, uh, that's unequivocal. But the challenge becomes is, the challenge exists where you have those automated tasks that require consultative knowledge

You have this-- I mean, I'm not-- I'm, I am gonna compare myself to a doctor. Your gen- your, your radiologist right now, you throw, you throw an X-ray into a, um, into an AI engine, and the X-ray is gonna find it.

We've, we've all read these [00:36:00] studies. Like, it found this one dot in an X-ray that the naked eye couldn't see because

Oh

it's, it's, it's analyzing the data in such a granular way. then it goes to the doctor, has to say, "Yeah, I agree, and here is the treatment."

And so what you find is, is in the real world, in the, in the space where a, a, a carpenter made a window an oddball shape, it's not perfectly square, right?

How many perfectly level floors are there?

Dan Ryan: Ha!

Carl Long : You know, right? Welcome to Levelers. Um, so those types of questions, how do you plan for

that? How do you plan for the, the, the actual flow of a project? And it's using these tools that ex- that exist. But at the same time, going back to where we start, where we s- you and I started, is I need to be able to pick up the phone and call you

Yeah.

And say,

"Hey, Dan, we have an issue."

Dan Ryan: I [00:37:00] wonder, so we're early in our third project year in that first three innings. I love Tony La Russa, who was a awesome manager of the Cardinals and the A's. He always looked at every baseball game in thirds, right? The first third, three innings, middle third, final third. So in the-- our third project year, we're in the first 

Carl Long : Third.

Dan Ryan: right?

Carl Long : Agreed

Dan Ryan: I wonder how this part of this conversation will age towards the middle and the end. I personally think it takes people. Yeah, we can s- we can squeeze, squeeze all the juice out of the orange, but it still makes... Y- you still need people in that experience to get it done. Um, and actually, that's a great pivot into one of the most amazing things about hospitality.

So going back to that cocktail party relationship or conversation where it's like, "What do you do?" I was like, "Oh, I furnish hotels." "Well, what does that mean?" I go, "Well, actually, let me clarify. I try to furnish hotels. I wake up every minute, every morning, and I figure out how am I gonna furnish a hotel. [00:38:00] And, uh, sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not."

But in those hotels, they're laboratories of business and opportunity for people, whether you're the general manager in accounting, running the, the surf shop, the ski rental, the bellman. Like, y- you have so many different opportunities. You have so many opportunities where you can have a degree from Cornell or Penn State or, um, somewhere in Switzerland or a high school degree.

And one of the things I... And also, if you have a high school degree And you start working in a hotel, and you love people, and you can hear what's unsaid, and you wanna try things. You can try anything and get so much experience. And if you, if, if, if your bosses and the management there take a liking to you, there's so many stories of a steep career curve in a hotel

Carl Long : Right

Dan Ryan: where you could [00:39:00] be, and there's so many stories, a general manager or a head of rooms or whatever rather quickly if you show some gumption and wanna try things and hear what's unsaid and are good with people.

One of the things I'm fascinated with that you've taken under your wing, one of the many things, but also to see you light up when you talk about it, is in Richardson, Richardson High School, there's a hospitality program where I don't know why when we talk about debt and, like, the affordability crisis and all these things, and again, I'm not an economist, nor do I play one on TV, but I don't know why more people in high school...

Like, we hear about people going into HVAC or the trades, but I also think hospitality is a great stepping stone to if you were to start working in hotels and not have that debt load of going to college and take whatever that debt load would've been and bought a house or invested in, like, an index fund, you're gonna be so [00:40:00] incredibly ahead of the game by the time you're 30 or whenever you start having kids and that American dream is there.

So I'd love for you to tell us why you're passionate about what's going on in Richardson High School and, and, and, and some of the testimonials and, and stories that you might have heard so far.

Carl Long : So yeah, th- thanks. It's-- The, so the program at Richardson High School is led by a coach. Bobbie Weir, 

Dan Ryan: Oh, from the Grateful Dead. He came back to life? No, it's a her

Carl Long : So yeah. b- yeah, Bobbi Lynn Weir, she is, she's the coach of or the leader of this Richardson High School Hospitality School, Hospitality Program,

Mm-hmm.

And it's a vocational education setup. So you know how people have back...

You have wood shop, auto shop.

Mm-hmm.

Is the hospitality shop. And for years it was just two classrooms had a wall, your traditional classroom with the old classroom desk and, and the blinds and, and everything that was traditionally [00:41:00] associated with the classroom. But they would learn the, um, aspects of what it, what it is to be in a hotel, what it is to work in a hotel. And here in Dallas, the, the Omni Hotel, Omni Hotels has partnered with them. And so Omni sponsored this hotel school at Richardson High. And there are these ki- these high school students, they go in there, start, they can start as a freshman and go senior year to have, be part of that Richardson, the high school program, and they will actually walk out learning how to work in a hotel. Bobbie works to get them summer jobs at a hotel. They'll do internships at hotels. And they have part of this program, we actually worked with Omni, worked with just many other vendors to furnish what I would call a hotel lobby in the high school.

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow

Carl Long : You have custom banquettes, custom tables. You have a, a, a [00:42:00] reception desk.

You have the concierge desk. You have a m- the, the meeting room in the back, which has a place where the students can reserve it to have meetings, they have-- They, there is somebody, there's the general manager of the hotel school. There's the F&B director of the hotel school, and they schedule events. It is, and it is just phenomenal because they walk out with the idea that I can have a job right out of high school, and it'll be well playing out, paying, and I'll be trained

Dan Ryan: And it can be in the hospitality design part of things or the operations

Well,

or, or, or, or. There's so many different options.

The,

So how long has this been going on for? When did it start?

Carl Long : I think she's been, she's been doing it-- We, we worked on the-- We worked on getting the hotel school built about three years before it was finally, finally able to navigate the, the approval process at Richardson ISD. And Bobbie is a f- is a, is [00:43:00] a real force of nature in terms of forcing things through, saying... When I met her at the Dallas Hotel Show, we just started chatting. She, she asked what I did, and I said, "Well, I help people, I help people build hotels." "Oh, what do you mean?" if you pick up the building and shake it, everything that falls out, that's what we're responsible for." "Oh, so you design it?" "No." "Do you sell it?"

"No." "Do you buy it?"

Dan Ryan: We're back at the,

you go

party or dinner party conversation of trying to explain what the hell we do

Carl Long : So after about 10 minutes, she goes, "Oh my God, you are exactly who I need to help make this happen." I said, "Okay, Bobbie. What? Yeah, great." My-- At that point, my, my two sons were in the-- were in high school, and I said, "Okay, well, let's, let's see what we can do to help out." And sure enough, she partnered with Omni. They-- Omni did the design, and then we started, um, actually getting product made, we did it over the summer. They had [00:44:00] an opening day. They had, uh, the, the c-contractor at the Richardson High took the wall down, refinished the wall, wall vinyl, custom banquettes, all the other stuff that goes into it, she had a grand opening. since then, the state of Texas has actually named her as part of the Texas State, like, Commission

Dan Ryan: Wow

Carl Long : make this program exist in other high schools

Dan Ryan: Oh my gosh, that's amazing

Carl Long : the opportunity is just so great. And, and the other part is the need. There are-- Right now in the hotel b- in the hotel industry, there are-- I, I think there, there's about 20% of unfillable jobs in the hotel industry So you have this opportunity, come in and learn a business and then grow in it. Grow into the engineering side, grow into the finance side, grow into the sales side, grow into the management side, grow into the construction side, grow into the d- design side. All of a sudden, the [00:45:00] trajectory and the-- and where you can go, i-it's amazing.

Dan Ryan: a debt burden

Carl Long : Without-- Well, without a d- without a debt burden, and you don't have to be tied to just one thing.

And so the idea

Dan Ryan: And a steep career path.

Carl Long : I'm gonna... Exactly. The, the, uh, the amount of... So both of my, uh, both of my sons actually worked at two different hotels this summer. Um, my youngest is-- he's-- he wants to work in hotels because he says it's fun. He gets to meet people. He gets to do, um, welcome people in. He gets to say, "Hey, I, I wanna be part of this business." And at the same time, the people that he was working for said, "Yeah, if you, if you're willing to work, get ready. If you're willing to invest, get ready," because the ramp is just super steep. So kid that is looking to do something that, that [00:46:00] we, we as an industry, I think sh- absolutely need to do more in promoting that as an option because it's not... You'll hear the, y-you'll hear the stuff on the, the shows promote the trades. Promote the trades, promote... Yeah. Awesome. do that. But at the same time, industry in the ho- in the hospitality industry is massive in scale, massive in, massive in opportunity, if you are willing to work, the sky's the limit

Dan Ryan: Yeah. And it's, it, like your sunset, it's fun. I also think, like, every generation rebels against the previous generation, and I'm, I'm gonna make screens and remote work be the previous generation. I'm hopeful, speaking of my kids, that they're gonna want to be interacting with people more. I just-- Because for me, I just, I don't know.

I, I was just thinking the other day, like, as my [00:47:00] daughter's entering college and then, like, you know, my other kids are in high school, I just was like, I can't-- I hope they never have to do a remote work or situation because I, I just think so... Like, okay, we had the opportunity, and you still do, but of the, of being in offices, and then it kind of went all distributed, and now people are starting to come back, but now there's this hybrid thing.

I really think and hope that people will thirst for collaborative together working again

Carl Long : Yeah. that's a huge part of it. I agree. And I, I-- you, you, you are exactly right that that is, that's needed and people thirst for it. People want that connection. People want to be together, and that hotels provide that, restaurants provide that. The opportunity to be act- actually be together

where, where pe- human, humanity is relational

Dan Ryan: And you get to see the best of it and also the worst of it. And also, uh, sometimes the worst of it, again, when [00:48:00] you go back to those cocktail parties and the dinner parties, the worst of it are those are... They're the best conversations to talk about in hindsight. It's super funny and amazing, and you're like, "Wow, people suck, but they're also amazing."

Carl Long : Oh, that was, that was the worst thing I've ever seen.

Dan Ryan: Yes

Carl Long : that's exactly it. I mean, and, and so I, I, I have, I have been, um, incredibly blessed to be able to help just do our, do our little part that and help just coordinate. I will-- The, the credit really goes to Bobby, and the credit goes to Omni here in Dallas.

I mean,

Omni is significantly investing in those young people at Richardson High

Dan Ryan: Who's, who at Omni's championing that?

Carl Long : the general manager,

Dan Ryan: Okay

Carl Long : and I mean, I, and I can-- I'll, I'll gladly connect

Dan Ryan: Yeah, I definitely w- I would love to have a follow-up and dig a little deeper with Bobby and Carolyn because, like, as people listen to this, [00:49:00] it would be great to have their kind of boots on the ground experience share because I think other-- I don't-- I know this is Texas, but, like, I want-- I'm hopeful that this could...

And I'm sure it is probably already spreading out. I just don't know about it. But I, uh-- the more that we can talk about it. 'Cause I just hear everything about the trades, which is great, and two things can be true at once. Like, hospitality is another place, whether it's on the design side, operations, or any, ev- all the different facets that you mentioned.

does Bobby get, 

we just had a 

a Texas Ranger badge? That would be really cool.

Carl Long : Yeah, I don't think she does, but

Dan Ryan: Damn. She deserves one, though

Carl Long : Yeah. Well, she, she actually was just named, she was actually just named to the, uh, Texas Classroom Commission,

Dan Ryan: Wow

Carl Long : by the governor. So she, I mean, it's... Like I said, I'll, I'll, I'll absolutely connect you. And once I connect you, Dan, she won't let go

Dan Ryan: Oh, good. Oh, no, I'm, I'm happy to be part of that mi- megaphone for her

Carl Long : Yeah

Dan Ryan: get her vision out there because I, again, I see you're lighting up talking about it now. If you're listening, uh, I can just... All of you who are just [00:50:00] listening, speaking to Carl in person about this, like, you can see him light up talking about it.

It's, it's, it's infectious

Carl Long : Good. Well, it, it's, it's opportunity and I think um, that, that opportunity to be able to do something good with--

and give, give people just an opportunity to, to benefit, think it's wonderful. my, uh, So we actually, we had an intern here this summer at PMI who came from the hospitalities, that, that, that program, high school intern.

Dan Ryan: Oh, great

Carl Long : she wants, she wants to get into supply chain management. She wants to work for, she wants to work for Mexico, the co- the government of Mexico in trade relations with China and Japan

Dan Ryan: Oh, I might have someone I can introduce her to who was awesome as we explored, uh, going into Mexico, and we'll take that offline

Carl Long : Yeah, she was-- I mean, again, but, but think about this. As a, as a, she's a high school junior,

or she's, [00:51:00] she's a rising senior this year. But that, that type of forethought and just that vision, I mean, Dan, when, when, we started or before we, before we started, I had no idea hospitality purchasing existed. I, I thought-- I didn't, I didn't have a second thought on hotels. And then all of a

sudden 

Dan Ryan: that's 'cause you were from Alaska where, and you, everyone grew up in igloos, right? Actually, I think you're the first guest from Alaska

Carl Long : Hey, listen, we, uh, there, there's a, there's a, there's a few of us. So I, I, we get the list of exports of Alaskans that, that are in the lower 48, and, and I'm glad I'm the first, so that's good

Dan Ryan: Sorry, that was a, the igloo joke was bad, but funny. 

Carl Long : idea for those types of opportunities, hospitality is truly one of the few that I think still exist where

Dan Ryan: to thi- to hear a rising junior or a rising senior want to get so specific into supply chain management and, and, and negotiating trade between Asia and Mexico is freaking amazing

Carl Long : [00:52:00] I mean, think about this. Like that, that, Yeah that's this, coming generation. I've heard-- I have heard... You, you-- I mean, you hear this all the time, like, "Oh God, the, the previous generation, they're not, they're not-- they

Yeah.

It. They're not-- They do things-- They're not, um, gonna work as hard. They're not gonna do what, do what we did.

They're not gonna go through the burdens and the struggles

Dan Ryan: Yeah, they will.

Carl Long : I-- They will,

Dan Ryan: Of course they will

Carl Long : the future is so incredibly bright for those people that are willing to put in the effort

Dan Ryan: They just might not be as good as making eye contact as we are.

Carl Long : Exactly.

Dan Ryan: But they're gonna do it. They're gonna d-

be--

And I remember the-- I just remembered the name of that organization. It's Pro Mexico, and I think that's exactly what she wants. And there was this woman, I can't remember her name, but she was amazing.

She set me up with an agenda of going to, like, 22 different factories within Mexico as I was looking to expand my supply chain down that way. Um, that's amazing, and that exists. I'm sure she's probably already keyed into it, but I'm happy to make a connection f- I'll, I'll, I'll give it to you after this and we can talk about it

Carl Long : I [00:53:00] mean, we had her, again, not, not fully understanding what we did. We just connected her with, with on our team to help, kind of help expedite some products

Dan Ryan: Awesome

Carl Long : and sit, sit with our expediting team to watch what we actually do

Dan Ryan: as we talk about people and the past, and also recogni-- I know we talked about, you know, being in the first third of our, of our third project year. Um, I'm noticing a real slow do- uh, everyone-- Like, if you pick up the newspaper, CapEx is talked about all the time, but it's just about hyperscalers, NVIDIA chips, Google, Meta, all of these things.

CapEx, capital expenditures are happening, but it's, it's pretty slow to come back on our side for, in, for hospitality. Uh, and I'm wondering anecdotally, like, what you're experiencing and at what point do you think all that deferred [00:54:00] CapEx will break through that dam? Like, what are you seeing out there?

Carl Long : the funny part we're seeing it, it's, it's, it is pretty spotty. We have clients that are, they are committed to their schedule. They're long- they're typically longer term holders, and they understand that the value of the asset mainta- is, has to be maintained, and they're willing to invest in that. And they are willing to, not only invest, but approo- but improve with that eye for their future and, and kind of future asset value. What, um, what's been funny is that that shift into those hype- that, those hyperscalers, the data centers, the, um, those different types that aren't, aren't in our business, ultimately they're creating the, the adjacent growth. We have a project in, we have a project in Oklahoma where a client was, is s- is investing a significant amount of money in a small hotel because there's a, there's a, our data center's being [00:55:00] built 50 miles up the road, and he, he's basically gonna become the nicest hotel for them to stay

Dan Ryan: So kind of like workforce housing, but nicer.

Carl Long : Not even workforce

Dan Ryan: Like a boutique hotel around the data center.

Carl Long : full-on full service hotel.

So you have that, and then you have the workforce side. You have the extended stay, you have those other things that are, that are necessary, and they're typically e- less expensive and, and fast to build. But the other, the other challenge, and this is where we've seen kind of deal flow not move, is that it's right now the cost, the, it, it's a cost function. Sellers want more than buyers are willing to spend,

and a- on the asset itself, not whether they're gonna do the work. Yeah, I still think there's like a huge dislocation there.

There's a, there's a big spread.

And the fact that those, those deferred PIPs, the deferred renovation has been allowed to happen, ultimately the clean out of the system. You-- I mean, I, I was listening to a guy this week Hilton, um, [00:56:00] Hilton coming up with Spark

Dan Ryan: Oh, that was amazing

Carl Long : yeah, and then kicking out a bunch of Hamptons and for the opportunity to build a bunch more new Hamptons,

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Carl Long : ultimately that, that's what has to happen for those things.

The, the, the brands have to enforce it. And what we're seeing is they're becoming more and more willing to do that, um, and not defer them.

Dan Ryan: The Hilton's growth, I interviewed the brand manager for Spark, um, last year or the year before, and that strategy that they kept under wraps, like in a skunkworks, if you will, and then came up with this super fast, super easy way to reposition a hotel. I forget what their net unit growth was off of that, but I feel like from zero to 18 months in, they had like 130.

I'm making up numbers, but it was like considerable. And when everyone's thirsted for net unit growth, that, that really helped. But now I just keep-- And I, I know Hilton also is leading with, um, [00:57:00] overweighting their guest, um, feedback and guest comments so that the, the more positive, they're actually reducing, I don't know by how much, the, the management fees.

So there, there's a, there's a carrot that they've established for them. And then for the ones who are underperforming, I don't know if there's a penalty or they're, they're starting to pull flags now. But I, I think that they're the first one that's kind of figured out an economic lever. But I still think there's something dislocated between the bid and the ask on the, on the hotels themselves that needs to get resolved.

I don't know what resolves it, though, because I feel like the place we're in right now is very reminiscent to, I don't know, 2010, '11, right? It was-- Because we were busy even after the financial crisis. We were busy doing all the work that was booked trailing. But I do feel like then there was like a year or two, or two and a half years of just kind of waiting for it to come [00:58:00] back, and then it just snapped back.

Yes 

wasn't like there was something terrible that happened. It just snapped back. And I don't know when that's gonna happen and what that is contingent on

Carl Long : I would, I would say it's probably within the next two years.

Because we've had-- I think we've had a period of about 10 years significant uncertainty Just economically, you've had a megaphone in, in the White House. You've had an ineffective Congress. You've had interest rates that were not moving naturally,

Yeah

which again, like what you want to think of whoever, whatever side you, you, you believe. I think that level of uncertainty are-- it, it absolutely puts a damper on things.

And so, and then you throw COVID in the middle of it with to COVID, and room occupancy and room rate were just at an all-time high, so you're not gonna take-- don't take rooms out of service. And they, and brands agreed 'cause they were making money hand over fist, and people were able to build [00:59:00] hotels inexpensively. global supply chain was, was incredibly efficient.

Yeah

I say this, I st- I tell people regularly that a well-written FF&E specification is efficiently priced.

Dan Ryan: Totally

Carl Long : So you're not-- y- being in, being with our, with our, our global supply chain for that niche of hospitality product really allows for a, a well-defined project budget, well-specified project, well thought out to be delivered correctly.

And so right now, we had prior to COVID was you had the economic conditions and rate and occupancy that, that allowed for new, new supply to come in, existing owners to maintain their CapEx reserves, and the brands that will-- or, or allowing them to defer it because they were making so much money.

Yeah.

Brand, brand comes in, owner comes in and says, making record room rate." Brand comes to say, "You're up for a renovation. I need to [01:00:00] take, start taking rooms out of service." "Okay, not happening." Like, b- "Fine, fight me. I'm making more money than I've ever have on a hotel." then the COVID shutdown, all of that CapEx reserve that existed went to either survive,

Dan Ryan: I also, I also think like we- we're also all talking about inflation, and it's real. I see it every time I go,

Yeah

just, uh, I'm in Fire Island right now, and I went to go buy a chicken. Granted, we're on Fire Island, so it's hard for things... It was a $45 chicken that I have to cook. So that's like extreme, but we're all seeing it at the pump.

We're all seeing it on the shelves.

Yeah

I als- I, again, I'm not an economist, nor do I play one on TV. But when we started in the early 2000s until COVID, with the rise of Asia manufacturing and China and the powerhouse that all that is, and freight rates, merchandiser, there was almost no inflation for like 20 years

Carl Long : Right. I, I-- And so Dan, you're-- It's so funny you mentioned that because we will look [01:01:00] back at just our, the history of the company and kind of, kind of where we see prices. We take that as kind of a, an annual study on where we're seeing prices go and movement. And you're exactly right.

There's, there were and carpet were the two that really were able to track year over year linear growth.

Everything else was wildly flat.

Dan Ryan: Totally

Carl Long : and, and well, there, there's, there's two parts. One, it's, it's in the early aughts, the, that the Asian manufacturing opening up of easy, easy shipping, making shipment, removing as many possible barriers to that international trade. And so that just opened up people for competition.

That opened up the idea of where you can make it. Well, I'm gonna keep, I need to keep my price the same, so where I'm gonna go to-- where can I go in the world to keep my price within this range

Dan Ryan: But also with that, as- aside from just the merchandise and the cost of shipping and the cost of goods, I think fees for [01:02:00] design and purchasing and, and all of the consultants involved, I think there was no inflation on that either for 20 years. So 

right 

almost like we're reverting to the mean but it's like going upwards instead of down, right?

And I think if you were to do a, to do a dotted line up and to the right from 2001 to where we are now, I think it was probably flat, flat, flat and now it's snapped up. But I think it's catching up to

Where it

we are. 

Carl Long : Yeah, I, I agree. I think that's the, the, that idea of lack of price, price growth, um, just on Alaska project cost, that, that we are getting to the point where the, the friction that ex- that has been inserted into international trade is actually having the effect that, that Donald Trump wants it to have.

And so, I mean, I think ultimately he wants it, wants a US-centric trade policy. And

so he's, he's u- he's used tariffs to do that. And in doing that, that absolutely increases the cost [01:03:00] for the product coming in, and it makes an incentive for possibility to have product that is impacted as little as possible by those tariffs

Dan Ryan: It also increases the risk of the wheels coming off the bus. So I don't know. I--

Carl Long : Yeah, And 

Dan Ryan: all we can do in our vocation is just kind of adapt and be as nimble as we can, and it's almost like Whac-A-Mole with where we're getting product from, how we're delivering it, what projects we're working on. And again, that is, it, it, that comes back to the high-risk, low-margin nature of what we do, right?

So in a way, we're gluttons for punishment, and like the gravitational pull or the black hole that's keeping us here is hospitality, and we love it.

Carl Long : it's hospitality, but, but we've also figured out how to do it.

That's the, that's the part. It, it's, is you-- It's, it is a unique skill set.

This isn't just, this isn't just standard project management. You look at some of these massive project management firms, they don't [01:04:00] have-- Hospitality projects don't have the margin to put on a large scale consult project management company to run the master development of 170 room hotel in Boise,

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Carl Long : an impossibility. It's a-- They are-- We're a cottage industry that nobody outside of it really knows how to diagram

Dan Ryan: It's... And it is, it's-- And again, it comes back to those relationships and multi-generational businesses and those relationships that have compounded over the years. So if we're in the first third of our third project year, what's exciting you as you look to the end of our third project year?

Carl Long : I think it's really the opportunity to, to lean into these tools that exist, but do it, do it in a, in a relational consultative way. think there, there are two divergent paths right now in where we are [01:05:00] in, in just the hospitality industry. One being, AI and process driven, tech driven, saying, "Hey, get-- come on, click on a couple things and we'll get you what you need." The other is relational, the other is consultat-is consultative. The other is we are-- we add value to the project and make it possible deliver when you want, where you want. Help you, help you develop those things that aren't necessarily rote. And so there are, there, there's opportunity for both, but I think that that divergence I think is really exciting, being able to understand that from how we continue to just grow in that business, I'm, I'm wildly ex-excited about.

And, and so We have that type of buy-in in terms of how, how we wanna do things. so it's fun. I mean, being able to look ahead and say, say that, that we're on a growth path, and it goes back to that, "Hey, why can't we?" That m- that idea. Yeah, I'm always willing to try, [01:06:00] and trying what's next, trying where, where and how we can continue to, grow the company, but also give people the opportunity to just be part of a fun industry and develop those relationships and make it-- make a team of superstars.

And so if you focus on the mission and not the credit, that is, um, that's really where we, we succeed, and that's really where if I can get, I can get our team on that, that is-- that's a success because we, we are-- we're a service company, and the whole idea behind, behind that us putting those others first. And when we do that, that I think is the heart of the hospitality industry. You think of the others first. Go-

Yeah.

Back to who we are

Dan Ryan: And if that's your recipe, I would say sprinkle in a little bit of hearing the unsaid, [01:07:00] because the unsaid is-- will kind of plat the-- plot the trajectory of where we're all going. Um, Carl, this has been a wonderful conversation. Um, if people wanted to learn more about you, PMI, Richardson High School, AHLA, any of the all of the above's, what's a good way for them to get in touch?

Carl Long : We can, uh, connect with us on LinkedIn, with us at our website, or you can email me. Um, I would love the opportunity to talk, talk about HLA, their No Room for Trafficking initiative, High School, um, and obviously hotel purchasing, which is a lot of fun and anybody wants to get involved

Dan Ryan: Right. And now hotel development. Looking at you and Grace back there with your hard hats on.

Carl Long : That's, that's a lot of fun

Dan Ryan: So as you guys are digging out the hole, is Bill, like, putting dirt back in the hole?

Carl Long : Oh, no. Bill, Bill was there too.

Dan Ryan: Okay

Carl Long : yeah, so we're, uh, we're all in it

Or he's riding 

Dan Ryan: That's [01:08:00] amazing. 

It's been 

give him my best. Please give everyone my best. I've enjoyed this. Thank you, Carl, for being a part of this. I'm, I'm so happy we did this

Carl Long : Yeah, same here.

Dan Ryan: And also to all of our listeners, if this has changed your way of thinking about hospitality or our niche in the hospitality world, or if you think of someone or some high school that might wanna learn more about what they got going on in Richardson, please pass this along.

Give it a like, give it a subscribe. I love doing these. Thank you for listening, and we'll catch you next time