WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.429 Matt: Roger Williams, welcome to the WP Minute. 00:00:03.340 --> 00:00:04.260 Hey Matt, how are ya? 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:08.440 There's a Roger Williams Zoo about 20 minutes from me that 00:00:08.440 --> 00:00:09.930 I bring my kids to all along. 00:00:09.930 --> 00:00:12.030 You ever get confused as THE Roger Williams? 00:00:13.129 --> 00:00:17.749 Roger: You know, it was a big thing in fifth grade, um, history class. 00:00:18.275 --> 00:00:22.884 When we learned about Rhode Island and the founder of Rhode Island being 00:00:22.895 --> 00:00:27.275 Roger Williams, uh, and then everybody forgot about it and didn't care. 00:00:27.465 --> 00:00:32.275 But, um, an interesting fact, uh, one of my aunts, uh, a bunch of 00:00:32.275 --> 00:00:34.385 years ago traced back our lineage. 00:00:34.934 --> 00:00:38.755 Apparently, uh, I come from Roger Williams. 00:00:38.955 --> 00:00:39.184 Wow. 00:00:39.885 --> 00:00:40.355 Yeah. 00:00:40.705 --> 00:00:41.475 Matt: That's fantastic. 00:00:41.475 --> 00:00:44.094 Well, I, I have royalty slash celebrity. 00:00:44.504 --> 00:00:46.154 First time on the WP minutes. 00:00:46.154 --> 00:00:46.474 Great. 00:00:46.925 --> 00:00:47.985 Roger: Another funny story. 00:00:47.985 --> 00:00:51.915 We went to Rhode Island once and I, you know, we got carded at a 00:00:51.915 --> 00:00:56.445 bar and I tried to be kind of like, Hey, kind of cool name, right? 00:00:56.474 --> 00:00:57.785 Do I get like a free drink? 00:00:57.785 --> 00:00:59.535 And yeah, just nothing. 00:00:59.894 --> 00:01:00.174 Matt: Yeah. 00:01:00.804 --> 00:01:00.984 Roger: Nothing. 00:01:01.204 --> 00:01:01.834 I was like, no, 00:01:02.014 --> 00:01:03.644 Matt: yeah, they're, they're sick of that joke. 00:01:03.804 --> 00:01:05.394 They are sick of that joke. 00:01:06.094 --> 00:01:07.434 Um, that's fantastic. 00:01:07.494 --> 00:01:10.255 Uh, so you find yourself these days at Kinsta. 00:01:10.275 --> 00:01:11.834 We're going to talk about what you do at Kinsta. 00:01:12.005 --> 00:01:17.715 Cause we sort of share, um, Similar titles to my day job at gravity forms. 00:01:17.975 --> 00:01:22.905 But I was just on your, on the, your show slash Kinsta show, you were talking about, 00:01:23.065 --> 00:01:26.765 you have some previous experience with video editing and creating other content. 00:01:27.245 --> 00:01:27.814 Take me back. 00:01:27.815 --> 00:01:30.765 Was, was that what you did before you, you got this role at Kinsta? 00:01:30.785 --> 00:01:32.344 You were running your own stuff, working for other folks. 00:01:32.365 --> 00:01:33.225 What did that look like? 00:01:33.705 --> 00:01:34.215 Roger: Yeah. 00:01:34.215 --> 00:01:40.455 So, I mean, I've got a, um, a storied career that there's no straight path. 00:01:40.515 --> 00:01:45.650 Uh, I was, I started in hosting, uh, Uh, we moved into selling CDN for 00:01:45.650 --> 00:01:49.400 a little while back when you had to actually like call somebody and get CDN. 00:01:49.790 --> 00:01:54.940 Um, and then I got burnt out of corporate and did, I started 00:01:54.950 --> 00:01:56.280 building websites for people. 00:01:56.289 --> 00:02:02.410 So this is around 2009, 2010, um, started building WordPress sites. 00:02:02.429 --> 00:02:05.470 And then there was this YouTube thing that was really taking off. 00:02:05.559 --> 00:02:08.279 And from an SEO perspective, I realized. 00:02:09.049 --> 00:02:13.790 That even if you didn't have a good video up, if you had a decent video 00:02:13.790 --> 00:02:19.649 up and you did some decent titling and descriptions, you could start ranking at 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:22.909 the top of searches on Google immediately. 00:02:22.909 --> 00:02:27.609 So I had a bunch of clients that I started sitting them down, just doing 00:02:27.609 --> 00:02:29.299 a video of like, explain what you do. 00:02:29.299 --> 00:02:32.980 And at the time I worked with like some criminal defense lawyers in Phoenix. 00:02:32.980 --> 00:02:37.220 And so really savory subjects, uh, running the gamut. 00:02:37.795 --> 00:02:43.665 Um, and, and we were just talking about how I really love this new tool Riverside 00:02:43.674 --> 00:02:48.844 has, and Descript has it too, where after you shoot a video, it creates a 00:02:48.844 --> 00:02:53.185 transcript, and you're able to now just go in and say, Oh, get rid of this uh 00:02:53.234 --> 00:02:55.355 and um, get rid of this whole sentence. 00:02:55.989 --> 00:02:59.690 Uh, and so back in my day, or God, I sound like an old man, 00:02:59.690 --> 00:03:02.619 but back in 2009, 2010, right? 00:03:02.619 --> 00:03:07.249 You had to load everything into Final Cut or Premiere and just sit there 00:03:07.249 --> 00:03:12.619 and go through and edit out each of those or try and do another 20 takes 00:03:12.619 --> 00:03:14.799 and hopefully get something coherent. 00:03:14.809 --> 00:03:17.059 So that was really kind of where I got started. 00:03:17.465 --> 00:03:22.395 Um, I, I did that for about eight or nine years and then realized I 00:03:22.395 --> 00:03:26.185 needed a more consistent paycheck, uh, doing the, the client stuff. 00:03:26.745 --> 00:03:29.865 Just as a little bit too ups and down for how I was running it. 00:03:30.405 --> 00:03:33.765 Um, and so I went back into hosting, worked at Pressable for a bit, 00:03:33.765 --> 00:03:37.165 and then ended up at Kinsta and been here almost five years now, 00:03:39.445 --> 00:03:39.855 Matt: that's it. 00:03:40.095 --> 00:03:41.085 Oh, did I lose 00:03:44.734 --> 00:03:45.815 Roger: in and out, in and out? 00:03:46.165 --> 00:03:46.815 Matt: How about now? 00:03:47.475 --> 00:03:47.905 You're good. 00:03:48.035 --> 00:03:48.545 I got you. 00:03:48.845 --> 00:03:49.495 Oh, you got me now. 00:03:49.924 --> 00:03:50.184 Yes. 00:03:50.605 --> 00:03:51.105 Jesus. 00:03:51.825 --> 00:03:53.545 You know, man, technology. 00:03:53.545 --> 00:03:55.015 We were just ranting about that. 00:03:55.545 --> 00:04:00.364 It might XLR adapter like became unplugged, uh, in the midst of this stuff. 00:04:00.704 --> 00:04:03.715 Um, the YouTube stuff. 00:04:03.745 --> 00:04:08.935 I remember doing my first YouTube video 2010 for the studio, for my studio, 00:04:08.975 --> 00:04:13.704 um, and one of the very first videos I did was reviewing, uh, Gravity Forms, 00:04:13.774 --> 00:04:18.554 which, uh, where I work today, uh, but I remember, um, we had, uh, at the time he 00:04:18.554 --> 00:04:22.784 was an intern, but he ended up being full time as a project manager shortly after. 00:04:23.474 --> 00:04:27.455 But he was like a musician so he knew all about like audio and video and my 00:04:27.455 --> 00:04:32.635 dad had a whole set of like professional Digital photography cameras, but like 00:04:32.645 --> 00:04:36.684 the video side of it was just throwaway like it wasn't that wasn't a thing back 00:04:36.684 --> 00:04:39.015 then They were like, oh, you're not gonna record videos with so these things would 00:04:39.025 --> 00:04:44.515 record up to 15 minutes in 1080p And we were like, oh my god, this is amazing 00:04:44.964 --> 00:04:49.655 Right and but you had 15 minutes So if you screwed up and you were running 00:04:49.655 --> 00:04:53.304 against the clock you had to get up take out the sd card Throw another one in 00:04:53.385 --> 00:04:57.554 hopefully the thing doesn't overheat I mean the challenges of making youtube 00:04:57.554 --> 00:05:01.374 videos back in the day are laughable Uh, you know compared today when we 00:05:01.374 --> 00:05:06.284 have like these cinema rigs in our hands with like an iphone or a modern android 00:05:06.284 --> 00:05:08.684 phone It's it's quite quite amazing 00:05:09.265 --> 00:05:09.994 Roger: agreed agreed. 00:05:09.994 --> 00:05:13.755 Yeah, I remember when the 5d mark 2 craze first hit right? 00:05:13.755 --> 00:05:18.495 Okay And then, uh, so I didn't have the budget, uh, to go for that. 00:05:18.534 --> 00:05:24.034 Uh, so I ended up with a Canon 60 D and, and that was able to do the 1080 00:05:24.034 --> 00:05:28.904 P record, not 1080 P I think it was 1080 I, uh, so it was still like, you 00:05:28.905 --> 00:05:33.064 know, not great, but then magic lantern came out and I don't know if you ever 00:05:33.064 --> 00:05:34.835 started using magic lantern at all. 00:05:35.044 --> 00:05:36.494 I remember I didn't use it. 00:05:36.905 --> 00:05:37.804 Oh my goodness. 00:05:37.844 --> 00:05:38.564 Total game changer. 00:05:38.564 --> 00:05:40.335 You could now record up to 50 minutes. 00:05:40.405 --> 00:05:44.484 Um, and, and it added just a whole bunch of features in there that. 00:05:44.909 --> 00:05:48.459 Half of them you didn't need, but no, you're, you're spot on. 00:05:48.489 --> 00:05:51.189 Uh, it's, it's so much easier now, right? 00:05:51.189 --> 00:05:52.499 You, you've just got your iPhone. 00:05:52.499 --> 00:05:57.159 I just spent the weekend running around Moab shooting video and the, 00:05:57.209 --> 00:06:00.289 the quality of the video that comes out of these phones now is just. 00:06:00.465 --> 00:06:01.035 It's amazing. 00:06:01.035 --> 00:06:03.535 So there's no excuses is what we're trying to say to people. 00:06:04.185 --> 00:06:08.205 Matt: So one of the things in my previous life, as I mentioned, uh, in 00:06:08.275 --> 00:06:12.505 your, uh, session earlier to this is I worked at Pagely for a little while. 00:06:12.925 --> 00:06:17.604 I ran the Pagely podcast, but, um, you know, the, the, the C suite team 00:06:17.614 --> 00:06:21.745 wasn't fully bought in on running a podcast as a valuable thing. 00:06:22.095 --> 00:06:25.885 Fast forward to today, you're, you're doing this now with, with Kinsta. 00:06:26.295 --> 00:06:29.325 Um, I think I might know the obvious advantages. 00:06:29.325 --> 00:06:34.125 What are the advantages for you and the Kinsta team for creating this kind of more 00:06:34.135 --> 00:06:36.445 personal content, uh, for the audience? 00:06:37.305 --> 00:06:41.085 Roger: Yeah, I think, you know, there was an interesting, I don't know if 00:06:41.085 --> 00:06:45.665 it's statistic or takeaway from, uh, some study that came out, I don't know, 00:06:45.675 --> 00:06:52.465 six months, 12 months ago, where they surveyed, uh, millennials and Gen Z about. 00:06:53.575 --> 00:06:55.075 their media intake. 00:06:55.694 --> 00:06:59.694 And one of the biggest takeaways that I got from this was that when they 00:06:59.705 --> 00:07:06.384 see content that is too polished, Too scripted, they immediately suspect 00:07:06.614 --> 00:07:12.714 something is up and, and, uh, you know, to me as a, you know, kind of a scrappy 00:07:12.755 --> 00:07:15.325 content maker, not a great writer. 00:07:15.395 --> 00:07:17.734 Um, I'm still not great with my comma placement. 00:07:18.074 --> 00:07:20.794 Uh, That's kind of music to my ears, right? 00:07:20.794 --> 00:07:23.305 Because I want to make just authentic stuff. 00:07:23.305 --> 00:07:27.405 I want to have a conversation that has some us and ums because I'm trying 00:07:27.405 --> 00:07:28.934 to figure out what I want to say. 00:07:29.484 --> 00:07:33.775 And I think that the audience sees that, especially the younger 00:07:33.775 --> 00:07:35.314 audience, as this research is showing. 00:07:35.314 --> 00:07:40.284 And I think even older audiences are starting to just get tired of the 00:07:40.314 --> 00:07:44.895 overproduced, the overpolished and realizing that a lot of times there 00:07:47.049 --> 00:07:48.400 message going on in there. 00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:53.230 And what I'm trying to do with the, uh, Kinsta talks, I guess is 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:56.640 what we're calling them is just have some real conversations with 00:07:56.640 --> 00:08:00.469 people and, and learn more about how they're working in the space. 00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:04.289 Matt: Kinsta does a lot, uh, for hosting. 00:08:04.289 --> 00:08:05.419 It's not just WordPress. 00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:10.970 So, You're specifically targeting just WordPress folks right now, obviously 00:08:10.970 --> 00:08:15.470 like community trust connection is massive in the, in the WordPress space. 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.660 Do you ever see yourself venturing out into some of the other technologies 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.710 that Kinsta can help folks with through their hosting or is 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.360 primarily target WordPress right now? 00:08:24.230 --> 00:08:27.650 Roger: Um, you know, I, I, I, like you, you've hit it on the head. 00:08:27.650 --> 00:08:29.830 We're definitely focused on WordPress right now. 00:08:29.830 --> 00:08:32.090 It's, it's where most of our business is. 00:08:32.515 --> 00:08:36.465 It's, you know, who I need to talk to the most to figure out what 00:08:36.485 --> 00:08:38.715 we can do better to help them. 00:08:39.255 --> 00:08:41.934 Um, and so there's, you know, I think that's what I really love 00:08:41.934 --> 00:08:45.415 with, uh, having these conversations is it's a two way street. 00:08:45.775 --> 00:08:49.635 I'm, I'm trying to listen more than what I'm trying to, you know, say. 00:08:50.135 --> 00:08:54.075 As far as other technologies go, you know, I can't really say anything specific 00:08:54.075 --> 00:08:56.074 right now because I just don't know. 00:08:56.435 --> 00:08:58.185 Uh, but I do. 00:08:58.410 --> 00:09:01.660 Like to think that in general, I'm focused on the open source 00:09:01.660 --> 00:09:04.069 software world as it is. 00:09:04.069 --> 00:09:07.459 And we're seeing components of, um, you know, you've got 00:09:07.459 --> 00:09:08.999 like headless sites, right? 00:09:08.999 --> 00:09:11.270 Where they're being built the front ends and react. 00:09:11.599 --> 00:09:14.109 And so at least being aware of that. 00:09:14.109 --> 00:09:16.569 And we have customers who are using our WordPress on the 00:09:16.569 --> 00:09:18.469 backend and they're using. 00:09:18.629 --> 00:09:20.670 Some of our other technologies for the front end. 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:25.369 So those things are happening and I'm sure at some point I'll expand into that. 00:09:25.369 --> 00:09:28.689 But, uh, as far as the timeline goes, I have no idea right now. 00:09:30.079 --> 00:09:36.839 Matt: Owning, uh, amplifying, enhancing one's personal brand is oh, so important, 00:09:36.949 --> 00:09:40.219 uh, these days, not just from like the broader business perspective, 00:09:40.219 --> 00:09:41.689 but what we see going on with. 00:09:41.810 --> 00:09:47.850 WordPress, um, and this, uh, tug of war of ownership and, um, you know, 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:51.779 democratizing not only publishing, but the, uh, the building of 00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:53.579 WordPress, the software as it stands. 00:09:54.290 --> 00:10:00.710 I often see far too much, uh, that I want to admit to in my Twitter timeline 00:10:00.789 --> 00:10:07.410 and other places around the web of freelance product makers who just like, 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.400 uh, I've got this plugin, please buy it. 00:10:11.175 --> 00:10:13.935 And they, and they even say things like, I'm even ashamed 00:10:13.944 --> 00:10:15.864 to ask for people to buy it. 00:10:16.474 --> 00:10:22.624 And it's like, you're sitting on this mountain of content opportunities, right? 00:10:22.665 --> 00:10:27.454 To fire up, um, either, you know, video or audio, because I'm actually 00:10:27.464 --> 00:10:30.634 more of like an audio period purist than I am a video purist. 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:35.060 Purist you can start a podcast freely distributable RSS. 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:36.040 Just like WordPress. 00:10:36.040 --> 00:10:40.170 It's why I love the two spaces Because of that open distribution, but people 00:10:40.170 --> 00:10:44.469 should start doing this yesterday And if you're hearing this you should 00:10:44.479 --> 00:10:49.440 be doing it right now So I'm curious like If you've seen this before in the 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.840 WordPress space, if so, uh, what either opportunity should people be looking for? 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:54.870 Where could they start? 00:10:55.270 --> 00:10:59.219 That's not so overwhelming because I fully agree for, for some of them, it is 00:10:59.569 --> 00:11:03.350 emotionally overwhelming, not just like the tech side of it, but like, Oh my God, 00:11:03.350 --> 00:11:05.100 I have to talk and put myself out there. 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:07.009 So any advice for those types of folks? 00:11:07.890 --> 00:11:08.349 Roger: Yeah. 00:11:08.349 --> 00:11:11.049 You know, I think simplify, right. 00:11:11.139 --> 00:11:16.400 Um, even as simple as it is to get a podcast going on WordPress, there 00:11:16.420 --> 00:11:19.050 is still some complication in there. 00:11:19.250 --> 00:11:23.050 And so, uh, you know, uh, personally, I'm a big fan of LinkedIn. 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:27.360 Um, the reason I like LinkedIn is because everybody that's going to LinkedIn 00:11:27.370 --> 00:11:29.149 is going there for a purpose, right? 00:11:29.150 --> 00:11:32.369 It's business, whether they're looking for a job or they're 00:11:32.369 --> 00:11:34.500 looking to sell or whatever. 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:36.510 So you've already got an audience. 00:11:36.765 --> 00:11:40.175 That is interested in hearing a sales pitch, whether, you 00:11:40.175 --> 00:11:41.425 know, they like it or not. 00:11:41.425 --> 00:11:43.015 I mean, that's what LinkedIn is. 00:11:43.305 --> 00:11:47.565 And do you've got the opportunity to upload audio and video there 00:11:48.045 --> 00:11:50.624 and it's just, it's really easy. 00:11:50.705 --> 00:11:53.194 And so I would say, you know, strip things down. 00:11:53.194 --> 00:11:55.314 And honestly, this is the approach I'm taking, right? 00:11:55.355 --> 00:11:59.705 Is, um, at, at some point I'm going to post all this stuff to a podcast, 00:11:59.745 --> 00:12:04.405 but right now I can just post it on LinkedIn, test it with an audience. 00:12:04.704 --> 00:12:07.104 Get some feedback, see what works, what doesn't. 00:12:07.485 --> 00:12:09.045 Um, and just start with that. 00:12:09.055 --> 00:12:11.635 Just start testing and putting stuff out there. 00:12:11.964 --> 00:12:17.025 And once you get to 50, which I'm still not even at 50 that I've put out yet. 00:12:17.425 --> 00:12:22.605 Once you get to 50, then start thinking about complicating it and what, you 00:12:22.605 --> 00:12:26.604 know, what are the things I can add on to make this more difficult for myself. 00:12:26.865 --> 00:12:31.045 Uh, but until you get to 50, you're not going to really figure out 00:12:31.105 --> 00:12:34.034 what you're enjoy talking about. 00:12:35.134 --> 00:12:37.904 Matt: One of the hardest things for me, as somebody who's been doing it 00:12:37.905 --> 00:12:43.194 for well over a decade when I joined Gravity Forms, is Look, you step into 00:12:43.194 --> 00:12:47.425 the, you step into the shoes of a company that's been around forever. 00:12:47.775 --> 00:12:52.465 Um, you know, celebrating 15 years, uh, in business, a milestone a few months ago. 00:12:53.255 --> 00:12:56.504 And how does one represent that brand? 00:12:56.724 --> 00:12:57.064 Right? 00:12:57.064 --> 00:12:59.004 Because I'm not a developer. 00:12:59.324 --> 00:13:01.025 I don't know all the acronyms. 00:13:01.025 --> 00:13:01.314 I don't. 00:13:01.569 --> 00:13:04.569 Tab space or space bar, my code, man. 00:13:04.569 --> 00:13:05.910 I don't do any of that stuff. 00:13:06.140 --> 00:13:08.339 How can I represent like the super smart team? 00:13:08.350 --> 00:13:11.510 Who's so, you know, well respected in, in the WordPress space. 00:13:11.790 --> 00:13:14.860 That was a particular challenge for me is like, am I good 00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:16.839 enough to represent this brand? 00:13:16.939 --> 00:13:21.550 Um, any particular challenges you faced or still face today as sort of being 00:13:21.550 --> 00:13:25.800 the face of Kinsta, you don't have to leave, you can stick around and 00:13:25.800 --> 00:13:26.089 Roger: let us 00:13:26.089 --> 00:13:26.310 Matt: know. 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.450 Roger: For those on the audio version, I was kind of cowering a little bit there. 00:13:32.010 --> 00:13:33.120 This is huge. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:38.050 The imposter syndrome is very real, especially when it's with a team like 00:13:38.050 --> 00:13:43.839 Kinsta, we've got so many a hitters on that are making things work, whether it's 00:13:43.849 --> 00:13:52.229 engineering, design, development, support sales, uh, it, it's an all star team and, 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:57.714 um, So, so I, I keep that in mind and at times that can be paralyzing, right? 00:13:57.714 --> 00:13:58.494 Don't get me wrong. 00:13:58.494 --> 00:14:01.964 Like of, of, of worrying about if I'm going to say the right 00:14:01.994 --> 00:14:03.254 thing or the wrong thing. 00:14:04.104 --> 00:14:10.035 Um, I, you know, the, what's really helped me is the executive team at Kinsta 00:14:10.094 --> 00:14:12.264 is amazing and they're very supportive. 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.700 And they're very vocal with that feedback. 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:20.120 And I think for leaders, if you're, if anybody's out there and they're trying 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:27.430 to get a team going, who wants to do some sort of content production, coming heavy 00:14:27.430 --> 00:14:30.610 with the praise, the criticism can wait. 00:14:31.555 --> 00:14:36.925 You know, get from zero to one first and, and, and just really build up the team 00:14:36.935 --> 00:14:41.935 because that's going to come through their confidence in themselves and in their 00:14:41.945 --> 00:14:44.725 company is all going to come through. 00:14:44.745 --> 00:14:47.694 So, you know, really accentuate the positives. 00:14:47.775 --> 00:14:51.825 Obviously, if there's a major, you know, if there's a legal issue, 00:14:51.835 --> 00:14:53.115 you've got to bring that up. 00:14:53.545 --> 00:14:56.695 Uh, but anything short of a legal issue is not a big deal. 00:14:56.705 --> 00:14:58.864 The internet has a short memory. 00:14:59.255 --> 00:14:59.625 Right. 00:14:59.685 --> 00:15:00.945 I'm for the most part. 00:15:01.425 --> 00:15:06.705 And, um, and so don't get too hung up on the little things. 00:15:06.825 --> 00:15:08.355 People are going to expect you to mess up. 00:15:08.375 --> 00:15:09.135 We're all people. 00:15:09.135 --> 00:15:12.425 And, and kind of going back to the earlier thread, we were talking 00:15:12.435 --> 00:15:17.059 about this authenticity that comes through when you make a mistake. 00:15:17.579 --> 00:15:23.400 When you leave the mistake in the edit, people notice that we're all editors. 00:15:23.400 --> 00:15:26.770 Now we all realize, oh, they could have removed that or they could have 00:15:26.770 --> 00:15:28.839 shot that again, but they didn't. 00:15:28.889 --> 00:15:31.059 Um, and, and what does that mean? 00:15:31.069 --> 00:15:33.909 Well, it means that they're comfortable with themselves and. 00:15:34.140 --> 00:15:35.429 You know, they're okay with that. 00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:39.389 So, you know, zero to one, get something out the door. 00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:46.220 And once you get to 50, I think 50 is a nice number because, um, you know, 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:49.770 I've been for like two months now been doing like a bunch of interviews 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.149 every week and putting them out there and I'm still not even at 50 yet. 00:15:53.149 --> 00:15:56.990 And it feels like I've done a lot, but it's not a lot yet. 00:15:57.009 --> 00:15:59.930 And I feel like once you get to that certain number, whether it's 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.640 50 or 100, whatever you make it. 00:16:02.735 --> 00:16:05.714 Then you can start kind of looking back and seeing, okay, 00:16:05.714 --> 00:16:10.104 Hey, what, what shows did well, maybe we want to do more of those. 00:16:10.334 --> 00:16:12.634 What guests did we have the most fun with? 00:16:12.665 --> 00:16:15.295 I mean, that's the other thing, like keep this fun. 00:16:15.334 --> 00:16:18.924 If it's not fun, you need to reanalyze what's going on. 00:16:19.485 --> 00:16:19.754 Matt: Yeah. 00:16:19.754 --> 00:16:24.550 That, uh, you are, uh, A lot more aggressive than I was when I was in 00:16:24.550 --> 00:16:27.290 my podcast, uh, consulting career. 00:16:27.489 --> 00:16:29.790 I would say people, well, once you get to like 14, 15 00:16:29.790 --> 00:16:31.229 episodes, you're probably hooked. 00:16:31.380 --> 00:16:32.640 Like you're probably okay. 00:16:32.949 --> 00:16:36.119 Um, if I would've told people 50, they probably would've ran away 00:16:36.119 --> 00:16:38.019 from me, but I totally get it. 00:16:38.130 --> 00:16:39.530 Uh, and I totally understand it. 00:16:39.849 --> 00:16:43.130 How do you measure, uh, this is more of like a technical question. 00:16:43.140 --> 00:16:45.609 Cause I know your focus primarily on, on LinkedIn. 00:16:45.609 --> 00:16:47.560 That's where I see your videos popping up all the time. 00:16:47.569 --> 00:16:50.349 It's where I was watching Jake Goldman, um, earlier this morning. 00:16:51.199 --> 00:16:55.449 How do you measure technically the success of the video on LinkedIn? 00:16:55.509 --> 00:16:58.900 So many of us are used to YouTube and YouTube analytics and stuff like that. 00:16:59.150 --> 00:17:00.290 How do you do it on, on LinkedIn? 00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:01.150 Roger: Yeah. 00:17:01.150 --> 00:17:04.099 So I'm going to give away a secret and it shouldn't be a secret. 00:17:04.129 --> 00:17:09.139 There is a really good, um, app called aware. 00:17:09.800 --> 00:17:12.689 Uh, the, the domain name is use aware. 00:17:12.699 --> 00:17:12.719 co. 00:17:15.315 --> 00:17:19.954 And I'm going to totally flub, uh, the founder of it right now, even though 00:17:19.954 --> 00:17:21.484 I'm a, I'm following him on LinkedIn. 00:17:22.575 --> 00:17:24.704 Um, they basically, he built this tool. 00:17:24.754 --> 00:17:27.775 It's, it's a salesperson's tool for using LinkedIn. 00:17:28.494 --> 00:17:33.334 And, uh, the reason that I like it a lot more than using LinkedIn is first 00:17:33.335 --> 00:17:35.824 of all, it strips everything away. 00:17:36.055 --> 00:17:37.585 It's content focused. 00:17:37.595 --> 00:17:38.925 So there's no ads. 00:17:39.635 --> 00:17:42.685 There's, you know, not a lot of craziness going on in there and it 00:17:42.685 --> 00:17:47.384 allows, it's got a really nice, um, dashboard so you can track your metrics 00:17:47.384 --> 00:17:52.024 as far as, you know, what content's getting viewed, what content's getting 00:17:52.024 --> 00:17:58.015 engagement on, but then it also helps you engage more into LinkedIn. 00:17:58.024 --> 00:17:58.775 So it's. 00:17:59.675 --> 00:18:00.905 I think his name is Alex. 00:18:01.165 --> 00:18:01.765 Sorry. 00:18:02.005 --> 00:18:07.275 Um, his big focus is that when you're trying to use LinkedIn, it's a two way 00:18:07.535 --> 00:18:10.394 street, you're putting content out there. 00:18:11.225 --> 00:18:12.034 That's important. 00:18:12.590 --> 00:18:15.800 You should shoot for maybe one post a day is, is what most people are 00:18:15.800 --> 00:18:19.480 saying, but really you want to make sure you're engaging people on LinkedIn. 00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:25.710 And so it's got a huge, um, component for commenting and replying 00:18:25.969 --> 00:18:27.660 and engaging people on there. 00:18:27.959 --> 00:18:29.899 And that's really how LinkedIn works best. 00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:30.880 And I know from my. 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:35.490 My perspective is when people are leaving comments, I'm paying attention to those 00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:37.600 people and I'm engaging with them. 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:39.640 Uh, so, so I use aware. 00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:42.569 co, uh, absolutely indispensable tool. 00:18:42.569 --> 00:18:44.010 If you want to be using LinkedIn. 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.119 Matt: Yeah, no, that's, that's fantastic. 00:18:46.409 --> 00:18:48.980 Uh, we'll make sure we link that up in the show notes. 00:18:49.340 --> 00:18:49.590 Yeah. 00:18:49.590 --> 00:18:50.780 You know, I'm surprised. 00:18:50.830 --> 00:18:52.520 Well, I'm not surprised. 00:18:52.795 --> 00:18:57.585 Really, because when you think about the, the sheer scale of, of YouTube, 00:18:58.125 --> 00:19:02.484 it's a dangerous thing and you know, I say dangerous because I'm also very 00:19:02.485 --> 00:19:08.814 rooted in the open RSS podcasting world and these days like, you know, podcast 00:19:08.925 --> 00:19:13.774 industry with air quotes following the money, it's so hard to track it. 00:19:14.665 --> 00:19:18.105 success of audio podcast because it is fragmented, right? 00:19:18.125 --> 00:19:20.845 Like, just like we all have our wordpress websites, you know, not 00:19:20.845 --> 00:19:22.025 everyone can see your traffic. 00:19:22.045 --> 00:19:23.315 You can't really understand. 00:19:23.315 --> 00:19:25.545 You know, if you were like advertising stuff, you have to share those results. 00:19:25.774 --> 00:19:28.425 You can't do that in podcasting either because it's RSS feed. 00:19:28.435 --> 00:19:31.384 It's hosted anywhere and everywhere people can listen to it. 00:19:31.805 --> 00:19:34.995 So the podcast industry is pushing, you know, they were pushing 00:19:34.995 --> 00:19:36.335 for Spotify for many years. 00:19:36.575 --> 00:19:39.644 Spotify couldn't do it because podcasters want to do it. 00:19:40.515 --> 00:19:43.085 Or podcast listeners and podcasters want the flexibility 00:19:43.085 --> 00:19:44.465 of open distribution, right? 00:19:44.475 --> 00:19:46.935 And perfect example would be Joe Rogan, whether or not you like the 00:19:46.935 --> 00:19:50.545 content, but the idea was he was exclusive to listening on Spotify. 00:19:50.745 --> 00:19:54.875 They took him off of YouTube and then Spotify tried that model of acquiring 00:19:54.924 --> 00:19:57.874 premium content and saying, okay, maybe we'll make money by getting 00:19:57.875 --> 00:19:59.475 all these listeners onto Spotify. 00:19:59.675 --> 00:20:03.205 That didn't work because the acquisition costs of the content 00:20:03.205 --> 00:20:04.185 they were, they were buying. 00:20:04.385 --> 00:20:08.095 It ain't no way you're catching up with 10 a month or 14 a month for Spotify. 00:20:08.095 --> 00:20:08.609 Okay. 00:20:08.729 --> 00:20:11.229 Um, so now it's back to the open distribution model and they'll 00:20:11.229 --> 00:20:12.939 just sell ads on top of that. 00:20:12.959 --> 00:20:14.070 And that's their revenue stream. 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:16.840 It's the open distribution model actually winning the day. 00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:18.999 Although it kind of went under the radar in the podcast space. 00:20:19.489 --> 00:20:22.359 But the point that I'm getting to is a lot of folks are pushing for YouTube 00:20:22.360 --> 00:20:24.760 to win for podcasting these days. 00:20:24.989 --> 00:20:28.489 And it's just like, don't you all realize what you're doing again? 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:34.340 You're pushing onto one centralized platform is video first. 00:20:34.855 --> 00:20:36.445 Which is totally different than audio. 00:20:36.495 --> 00:20:40.695 Yeah, I know it's much more attractive and you can sell it better, but 00:20:40.795 --> 00:20:46.405 audio is far easier to produce and manage than video, even today. 00:20:46.424 --> 00:20:50.765 It's, I mean, video file sizes are still 10, 20 times the size of an audio file. 00:20:51.025 --> 00:20:55.055 And transitions and, you know, the theater of the mind is a lot 00:20:55.085 --> 00:20:57.765 easier in audio than it is in video. 00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:03.590 Um, so pushing for success on YouTube, um, is a detriment to the podcasting space. 00:21:03.669 --> 00:21:08.029 Where I'm going with this is, uh, these, these other platforms, I'm surprised 00:21:08.030 --> 00:21:09.649 they haven't invested more in video. 00:21:09.659 --> 00:21:13.649 Like even Twitter, I mean, LinkedIn's starting to do it, do it more and, 00:21:13.649 --> 00:21:17.559 and even Instagram to a degree, I'm surprised we haven't seen. 00:21:17.865 --> 00:21:20.435 A pure competitor to YouTube. 00:21:20.765 --> 00:21:23.025 I don't have a direct question here, but I don't know if you have any thoughts 00:21:23.025 --> 00:21:27.225 on like video versus like platforms and, and where creators should be concerned 00:21:27.445 --> 00:21:29.374 with where you put your content. 00:21:30.435 --> 00:21:30.955 Roger: Yeah. 00:21:31.005 --> 00:21:34.204 Uh, digital fear cropping is a real issue. 00:21:34.225 --> 00:21:38.565 It has been something we've been talking about for 20 plus years now. 00:21:38.595 --> 00:21:39.125 And. 00:21:39.825 --> 00:21:42.445 It's probably worse than it's ever been. 00:21:42.545 --> 00:21:45.475 Um, the amount of people that are still blogging on their personal 00:21:45.475 --> 00:21:47.425 blog, and I'm just as guilty. 00:21:47.705 --> 00:21:50.875 I finally did put a personal post up for the first time in months. 00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:58.470 Yesterday or two days ago, but, um, it's, these companies have come in and 00:21:58.470 --> 00:22:07.070 they've created experiences that are so easy and so fluid that they've really 00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:11.850 blown away, like the ability to just use WordPress and do your content there. 00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:14.209 Um, I love YouTube. 00:22:14.290 --> 00:22:20.199 I have a premium subscription because I do not have time to watch ads and it's right. 00:22:20.199 --> 00:22:20.999 It's totally worth it. 00:22:20.999 --> 00:22:23.989 I can download videos so I can watch them on the plane. 00:22:24.339 --> 00:22:26.589 Um, it is really amazing. 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:32.040 And I remember I was working at a CDN company in 2006 when Google 00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:34.759 bought YouTube for, I think it was 2. 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:35.149 3 billion. 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.860 And the whole internet was like, Oh my God, Google's lost their mind. 00:22:40.290 --> 00:22:42.240 They, this is the dumbest move ever. 00:22:42.620 --> 00:22:46.399 And I mean, now you look back at it and that's chump change for, I mean, 00:22:46.770 --> 00:22:51.289 what is arguably now the largest streaming platform in the world. 00:22:51.290 --> 00:22:53.560 I mean, forget the numbers that Netflix puts out. 00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.930 YouTube is ridiculous. 00:22:56.250 --> 00:23:00.969 Um, you know, as far as people not realizing that they're 00:23:00.979 --> 00:23:02.590 giving away their content. 00:23:03.340 --> 00:23:06.020 It's hard because video is really hard. 00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:10.610 Like you just said, video files are much larger self hosting video. 00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:15.149 I mean, if you're going to do that, you then need to put in a player that can 00:23:15.169 --> 00:23:21.340 adapt to the user's internet connection and automatically adjust the bit rate. 00:23:21.770 --> 00:23:25.470 Um, there's so much magic that happens when you watch a YouTube video. 00:23:25.969 --> 00:23:28.610 And so to compete with that is really hard. 00:23:28.610 --> 00:23:32.950 And then you've got like on my phone, the YouTube app is amazing. 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:36.049 I can exit the app and go do other things and the video is still 00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:39.169 there and I can flick it out of the way and I'm still hearing it. 00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:41.929 Uh, you know, I can download videos to it. 00:23:41.969 --> 00:23:43.670 It's, it's really hard. 00:23:43.930 --> 00:23:49.680 I think the important thing is for creators is to stay focused on creating. 00:23:50.150 --> 00:23:54.790 Uh, and learning your craft and getting really good at it and, you know, going 00:23:54.790 --> 00:24:02.350 back and revising it and then being aware that these platforms and these are 00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:05.159 out there and that they own you, right? 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:10.209 I mean, if YouTube blocks you tomorrow, you're, what are you going to do? 00:24:10.289 --> 00:24:11.669 Do you have a plan B? 00:24:12.195 --> 00:24:16.875 And so having a podcast on your own WordPress site is still the smartest 00:24:16.875 --> 00:24:20.345 business move by far that you can do. 00:24:20.615 --> 00:24:24.764 Um, and you know, and so, yeah, I mean, I can pontificate on this for ever. 00:24:26.074 --> 00:24:28.084 Matt: So you're, you're out in the world, you're creating content 00:24:28.085 --> 00:24:32.014 for Kinsta, you're talking to, uh, folks in the WordPress community. 00:24:33.055 --> 00:24:37.935 When you go back to the weekly, quarterly, monthly meetings at Kinsta, 00:24:38.675 --> 00:24:42.915 do they, do they look at you and say, Roger, give us, give us the pulse of 00:24:42.915 --> 00:24:46.344 what's happening in WordPress or do you just get brushed away like I did? 00:24:46.514 --> 00:24:48.335 Like, you're just the podcaster here. 00:24:48.335 --> 00:24:49.275 We're not going to talk to you. 00:24:49.275 --> 00:24:49.984 No, I'm just kidding. 00:24:50.304 --> 00:24:53.415 Uh, do they, how do you provide the feedback of all of this content 00:24:53.425 --> 00:24:56.325 that you create that actually helps Kinsta make a better product? 00:24:57.045 --> 00:24:58.035 Roger: Uh, yes. 00:24:58.035 --> 00:24:58.985 Great question. 00:24:59.035 --> 00:25:02.915 Again, I, I mean, I'm biased, right? 00:25:02.955 --> 00:25:07.425 I work at Kinsta, so I'm gonna say nice things, but I will be very honest. 00:25:07.425 --> 00:25:10.954 I've worked at a lot of companies and the thing that I love the most about 00:25:10.954 --> 00:25:14.655 this company is they, they're, they listen to all of us, not just me. 00:25:14.975 --> 00:25:18.919 Um, we have a, we have an industry channel in our slack and we talk about, you know, 00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:20.380 Everything that's going on in there. 00:25:20.380 --> 00:25:22.550 And our executives are in there talking with us. 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:29.239 As far as my, my specific position, I am incredibly fortunate that all of 00:25:29.239 --> 00:25:37.109 my bosses, uh, have seen something in me, uh, believe in me and trust me to. 00:25:37.165 --> 00:25:40.495 You know, go out into the community, talk to the community, 00:25:40.555 --> 00:25:42.695 listen, gather all the feedback. 00:25:42.945 --> 00:25:44.625 And then I bring reports back. 00:25:44.835 --> 00:25:48.475 So especially after every word camp, I've always got a big report. 00:25:48.964 --> 00:25:51.745 Um, but usually it's, it's, you know, monthly, quarterly 00:25:51.745 --> 00:25:54.084 basis, uh, if not daily, I'm. 00:25:54.625 --> 00:25:58.975 You know, trying to highlight certain things that are coming up, um, and, 00:25:58.975 --> 00:26:02.905 and just really again, trying to work with the team on all of this. 00:26:03.255 --> 00:26:06.645 Uh, and, and it's hard because sometimes there is a lot of noise 00:26:07.235 --> 00:26:09.045 and we have to filter out that noise. 00:26:09.084 --> 00:26:14.094 And, and I think having the experience I've had, having been through enough 00:26:14.105 --> 00:26:17.955 hosting companies and, and building sites and working with clients and 00:26:17.965 --> 00:26:20.085 seeing what works and what doesn't. 00:26:20.524 --> 00:26:24.805 I have a little bit of a filter in there, but, uh, at the end of the day, 00:26:24.805 --> 00:26:30.645 it's all humility and just realizing that I've got a dream job and, uh, be 00:26:30.645 --> 00:26:34.895 really appreciative of that and, and just try and do the best work that I can. 00:26:35.485 --> 00:26:36.265 Matt: Fantastic stuff. 00:26:36.265 --> 00:26:41.054 Not the Roger Williams, but somewhere down the family tree, Roger Williams. 00:26:41.384 --> 00:26:44.669 Uh, you're going to be here in the Boston area, end of November for 00:26:44.669 --> 00:26:46.455 the Boston, uh, WordPress meetup. 00:26:46.475 --> 00:26:47.225 I'll link that up. 00:26:47.764 --> 00:26:51.524 In the show notes, where else do you want folks to go to say thanks? 00:26:52.245 --> 00:26:53.925 Roger: Oh, come find me on LinkedIn. 00:26:53.955 --> 00:26:54.975 That's where I am. 00:26:55.074 --> 00:26:56.144 Too much, almost. 00:26:56.184 --> 00:26:58.445 I need to filter out how often I'm on there. 00:26:58.445 --> 00:27:01.904 But, uh, yeah, come and say hi on LinkedIn and, and, uh, I'd love to talk to you. 00:27:02.495 --> 00:27:03.144 Matt: Fantastic stuff. 00:27:03.144 --> 00:27:04.184 Thanks for hanging out today. 00:27:04.424 --> 00:27:05.624 Don't forget the wpminute. 00:27:05.624 --> 00:27:06.564 com, the wpminute. 00:27:06.564 --> 00:27:08.634 com slash subscribe to stay connected. 00:27:08.674 --> 00:27:11.235 We'll see you in the next episode.