WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:56.018 --> 00:01:57.518 Duke: All right, Corey, what are we talking about today? 00:01:58.418 --> 00:01:59.198 CJ: oh man, duke. 00:01:59.198 --> 00:02:02.828 So today we're talking about understanding your limits, right? 00:02:02.828 --> 00:02:05.748 And understanding, , when enough is enough, sometimes. 00:02:07.188 --> 00:02:07.788 Duke: Yep. 00:02:07.788 --> 00:02:10.128 I would say I've been there more than once. 00:02:11.343 --> 00:02:11.913 CJ: Me too. 00:02:11.973 --> 00:02:12.453 Me too. 00:02:12.483 --> 00:02:12.813 Right? 00:02:12.813 --> 00:02:16.263 Like I am a, a serial, , you know, and it is kind of weird. 00:02:16.263 --> 00:02:18.823 I mean, I guess, based on, some of the things that I've said 00:02:18.823 --> 00:02:20.083 recently around knowledge, right? 00:02:20.083 --> 00:02:22.893 Like, say yes to everything you would not be surprised that 00:02:22.893 --> 00:02:24.603 sometimes I overload myself. 00:02:25.863 --> 00:02:26.283 Duke: Yeah. 00:02:26.288 --> 00:02:29.763 Yeah, I mean, it's an easy ecosystem to do that in too. 00:02:29.768 --> 00:02:33.033 Like we're clearly all passionate about ServiceNow. 00:02:33.393 --> 00:02:35.523 80 some episodes in still no outro though. 00:02:35.868 --> 00:02:36.528 CJ: Yeah, I know still. 00:02:36.528 --> 00:02:36.918 Yeah. 00:02:37.848 --> 00:02:40.098 Well, and I think maybe that's by design, right? 00:02:40.098 --> 00:02:43.518 Maybe we, we don't have an outro because we don't wanna finish. 00:02:44.043 --> 00:02:45.003 Duke: Yeah, maybe. 00:02:45.003 --> 00:02:45.423 Yeah. 00:02:45.453 --> 00:02:47.553 Or thumb our nose at one more thing to do. 00:02:48.198 --> 00:02:48.618 CJ: Right, 00:02:50.523 --> 00:02:52.413 Duke: But, uh, where was I going? 00:02:52.569 --> 00:02:56.326 but it's so easy to, pour more of yourself into this. 00:02:57.281 --> 00:02:57.671 CJ: right. 00:02:57.771 --> 00:03:02.281 Duke: Making videos, making CJ in the Duke, , writing blog posts, helping 00:03:02.281 --> 00:03:08.641 out on community and, and serving my customers, uh, and looking for 00:03:08.641 --> 00:03:14.008 new ones, you know, and it just, I certainly felt tired this week. 00:03:14.301 --> 00:03:14.391 it's 00:03:14.556 --> 00:03:15.696 CJ: yeah, yeah. 00:03:15.696 --> 00:03:18.246 No, man, I, I've been exhausted, so I feel you. 00:03:18.591 --> 00:03:19.671 Duke: And it's hard and it's hard to say. 00:03:19.671 --> 00:03:19.971 No. 00:03:20.001 --> 00:03:21.161 It's really hard to say no. 00:03:21.946 --> 00:03:24.016 CJ: It's especially hard to say no when it's something that 00:03:24.016 --> 00:03:25.186 you're really interested in too. 00:03:25.186 --> 00:03:25.516 Right. 00:03:25.726 --> 00:03:30.019 And, and, like you said, we're all so passionate about this ecosystem, and 00:03:30.229 --> 00:03:33.769 so when someone comes up to you and they've got this really cool thing and 00:03:33.769 --> 00:03:36.889 you think, wow, that is a really cool thing, I'd like to be involved in that. 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:37.489 Right. 00:03:37.489 --> 00:03:38.989 And so you, you're thinking, yeah. 00:03:39.164 --> 00:03:40.034 Yeah, I'll do that. 00:03:40.034 --> 00:03:40.784 Yeah, I'll help. 00:03:41.054 --> 00:03:41.354 Right. 00:03:41.554 --> 00:03:41.974 Duke: Yeah. 00:03:42.998 --> 00:03:46.791 CJ: and then, the next thing you know, all of those, five and six hour 00:03:46.791 --> 00:03:50.691 commitments kind of start to snowball into a, like a huge thing that's 00:03:50.691 --> 00:03:52.041 pushing down the side of a hill. 00:03:52.511 --> 00:03:55.871 Duke: Yeah, and so I think, I mean, we just blow the punchline on this, 00:03:56.541 --> 00:03:56.601 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:58.241 --> 00:03:58.721 Duke: I think. 00:03:58.726 --> 00:04:02.651 I think it's really important for people to seriously consider. 00:04:02.651 --> 00:04:02.681 I. 00:04:02.681 --> 00:04:05.261 The things that they say yes to, beyond the stuff that they 00:04:05.261 --> 00:04:06.371 have to say yes to, right? 00:04:06.371 --> 00:04:10.211 Like I have to say yes to a certain amount of work so I can feed my family and so I 00:04:10.216 --> 00:04:12.521 can grow my, wealth and do all that stuff. 00:04:12.521 --> 00:04:14.021 I have to say a certain amount of yes to that. 00:04:14.081 --> 00:04:17.771 But everything after that, you gotta be careful about, you really do. 00:04:18.161 --> 00:04:18.761 CJ: absolutely. 00:04:18.761 --> 00:04:18.971 Right. 00:04:18.971 --> 00:04:23.411 And I, and I think this is, especially relevant for folks who might not 00:04:23.411 --> 00:04:27.431 necessarily be at the beginning of their career and might not necessarily be in 00:04:27.431 --> 00:04:31.961 a situation where they don't have, or are probably all in a situation where 00:04:31.966 --> 00:04:33.432 they have, family obligations, right. 00:04:34.031 --> 00:04:37.941 You know, because those things we often don't take into account the 00:04:37.941 --> 00:04:41.061 family obligations that just, I mean, they don't go away, right? 00:04:41.061 --> 00:04:43.161 Like, you got kids, you got a spouse. 00:04:43.481 --> 00:04:48.464 that stuff requires, like that stuff, uh, those folks they 00:04:48.464 --> 00:04:50.138 require, caring, feeding, right? 00:04:50.138 --> 00:04:51.278 Like, I mean, you love him, right? 00:04:51.278 --> 00:04:51.878 So you gotta spend 00:04:52.143 --> 00:04:52.433 Duke: Yeah. 00:04:52.673 --> 00:04:53.273 Yeah. 00:04:53.693 --> 00:04:55.343 I mean, that took me a long time to learn. 00:04:55.373 --> 00:04:57.293 I think a few years back when I. 00:04:57.293 --> 00:05:00.033 I started Wolfpack and it was going badly, right? 00:05:00.033 --> 00:05:01.683 I was making all kinds of bad decisions. 00:05:01.736 --> 00:05:07.233 I was in bed with the wrong people and, but in my mind I was just like, oh, no. 00:05:07.233 --> 00:05:12.428 Failure is is a mindset, And so if I just buckle down, , work longer and 00:05:12.428 --> 00:05:16.778 work harder, then eventually clear the barrier and this will be a success story. 00:05:17.066 --> 00:05:17.456 CJ: Right. 00:05:17.726 --> 00:05:19.526 Duke: And what a crock of shit. 00:05:19.676 --> 00:05:25.599 Like honest to goodness, like, I should have just known what to, but anyways, 00:05:25.599 --> 00:05:28.239 what I was saying there was that that came at a sacrifice to my family. 00:05:28.244 --> 00:05:31.813 Like I just, you know, I was putting in 80 hour weeks and I paid that sacrifice, 00:05:31.818 --> 00:05:33.163 but who else paid that sacrifice? 00:05:33.223 --> 00:05:34.663 My kids, my wife, you know. 00:05:34.978 --> 00:05:35.278 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:35.278 --> 00:05:37.438 you always want to take that for granted, right? 00:05:37.438 --> 00:05:38.938 You want to take the, take it for granted. 00:05:38.938 --> 00:05:40.648 I'm doing this for us, right? 00:05:40.648 --> 00:05:44.398 Like, I expect that, you know, you'll understand this little thing, 00:05:44.398 --> 00:05:45.508 this little inconvenience, right? 00:05:45.513 --> 00:05:47.554 Because you love me, and you'll be there for me. 00:05:47.554 --> 00:05:49.764 You under, you'll, understand this little inconvenience. 00:05:49.764 --> 00:05:50.784 You'll understand that I. 00:05:50.924 --> 00:05:52.094 Have to work more. 00:05:52.094 --> 00:05:55.544 I have to do more right now with the understanding that later. 00:05:55.574 --> 00:05:55.784 Right? 00:05:55.784 --> 00:05:58.574 Like I'll have more time for that, but you gotta make sure later comes, 00:05:58.749 --> 00:05:59.709 Duke: Gotta make sure later. 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:00.669 Yes, exactly. 00:06:00.674 --> 00:06:03.009 Like what on earth am I doing this for? 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:04.209 You know what I mean? 00:06:04.209 --> 00:06:07.089 Like what on earth am I actually doing it for? 00:06:07.359 --> 00:06:10.229 You know, if I get well compensated, what would that mean? 00:06:10.739 --> 00:06:11.459 You know what I mean? 00:06:11.999 --> 00:06:13.859 I don't do, I don't do the well compensation just so 00:06:13.864 --> 00:06:15.059 I can be well compensated. 00:06:15.059 --> 00:06:18.306 Like what good is wealth relative terms here? 00:06:18.306 --> 00:06:18.456 Right. 00:06:18.456 --> 00:06:22.416 Not wealthy, but what, what, what good is wealth if you're not, if 00:06:22.416 --> 00:06:23.976 you're not exchanging it for time? 00:06:25.131 --> 00:06:26.571 CJ: well, absolutely right. 00:06:26.571 --> 00:06:30.591 And it is like money's no good on its own, the, the whole point in, 00:06:30.591 --> 00:06:32.811 in accumulating wealth, right? 00:06:32.811 --> 00:06:34.341 is to be able to. 00:06:34.479 --> 00:06:35.979 Ease your life in some way. 00:06:36.156 --> 00:06:36.516 Right. 00:06:36.516 --> 00:06:39.306 You know, and sometimes it's ease your life and ease the, the life 00:06:39.456 --> 00:06:40.866 of, of the folks that you love. 00:06:41.146 --> 00:06:44.261 So you, you can't lose sight of the things that you're doing, the reasons 00:06:44.261 --> 00:06:45.641 you're actually doing this stuff. 00:06:45.964 --> 00:06:49.294 and you can't, you know, perpetually push them into the future because you'll look 00:06:49.294 --> 00:06:51.034 up one day and you'll be in the future. 00:06:51.334 --> 00:06:51.634 Right. 00:06:51.634 --> 00:06:54.244 And you won't have, you know, ever caught up with the things 00:06:54.244 --> 00:06:55.114 that you're pushing there. 00:06:55.558 --> 00:06:58.764 Duke: And so there's a whole bunch of different ways you can apply 00:06:58.764 --> 00:06:59.864 what we're talking about here. 00:07:00.324 --> 00:07:03.556 The one that really hit me this week was, I think around the, 00:07:03.616 --> 00:07:06.766 just before the knowledge ramp up and then during knowledge, I just 00:07:06.766 --> 00:07:09.916 felt like there was a lot of buzz around creating content, right? 00:07:09.916 --> 00:07:13.576 We got rise up trying to get double the amount of people in the 00:07:13.581 --> 00:07:16.996 ecosystem we currently have, and that means there's gonna be more 00:07:16.996 --> 00:07:18.886 new people than seasoned people. 00:07:19.276 --> 00:07:23.709 Uh, and like we really need everybody to pitch in and do content, So I was 00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:27.609 on that train, I was raw rowing, and I just came to realize at some point I. 00:07:28.331 --> 00:07:30.551 Don't bow to the pressure if you can't. 00:07:30.991 --> 00:07:31.351 CJ: Yeah. 00:07:31.561 --> 00:07:32.161 Duke: Does that make sense? 00:07:32.161 --> 00:07:35.911 Like, yes, the ecosystem does need it. 00:07:36.001 --> 00:07:36.481 Yes. 00:07:36.481 --> 00:07:40.711 A lot of people appreciate it, but don't dig yourself deeper. 00:07:40.874 --> 00:07:43.704 don't tap into reserves to get that done. 00:07:44.493 --> 00:07:45.243 CJ: Absolutely. 00:07:45.288 --> 00:07:47.748 Duke: talked with a dude at Knowledge and he was like, I , I'm partway through 00:07:47.748 --> 00:07:50.638 the CTA program, , I've got a new child. 00:07:50.728 --> 00:07:52.408 how do I get a lot of content out? 00:07:52.408 --> 00:07:53.338 Like you do a lot of content. 00:07:53.338 --> 00:07:56.458 I'm like, yeah, but I'm not going through the CTA program and I don't 00:07:56.458 --> 00:07:57.928 have like a young, young child. 00:07:59.008 --> 00:07:59.398 CJ: Right. 00:07:59.578 --> 00:08:01.378 Duke: my kids can take care of themselves a little bit. 00:08:01.383 --> 00:08:04.468 So it's just like there's times and seasons for this. 00:08:04.498 --> 00:08:06.088 There's times and seasons. 00:08:06.373 --> 00:08:08.803 CJ: I like that there are times and seasons for this. 00:08:08.803 --> 00:08:09.523 Absolutely. 00:08:09.613 --> 00:08:11.023 and you make a really good point, right? 00:08:11.023 --> 00:08:13.333 Because my kids, are similar in age to yours, right? 00:08:13.333 --> 00:08:17.413 And they can take care of themselves for a while, if push came to shove, right? 00:08:17.413 --> 00:08:20.083 There's, I mean, they can, they can do practically, uh, uh, you 00:08:20.083 --> 00:08:21.103 know, a lot of things, right? 00:08:21.108 --> 00:08:26.119 And so, but six years ago, seven years ago when they couldn't, I 00:08:26.119 --> 00:08:28.249 wasn't doing a podcast either, right? 00:08:28.429 --> 00:08:28.729 Duke: Yep. 00:08:29.404 --> 00:08:33.154 CJ: Know, I, I wasn't nearly as active in the community then because I was much more 00:08:33.154 --> 00:08:35.794 active, at home, and let me reframe that. 00:08:35.794 --> 00:08:36.964 I shouldn't say much more active. 00:08:37.144 --> 00:08:42.084 I was required more at home, And so you only have a, a certain number of 00:08:42.084 --> 00:08:44.484 hours in the day, and so sometimes you gotta figure out how you chop 00:08:44.489 --> 00:08:46.374 'em up and how you distribute them. 00:08:46.794 --> 00:08:47.184 Duke: Yep. 00:08:47.754 --> 00:08:50.724 And you gotta be cutthroat about it, cuz like, n none of 00:08:50.724 --> 00:08:52.284 us get more hours in the day. 00:08:52.284 --> 00:08:54.474 It's such a cliche thing to say, but literally we don't. 00:08:55.104 --> 00:08:55.614 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:55.824 --> 00:08:56.414 No, you're right. 00:08:56.694 --> 00:09:00.488 Duke: I, I feel like I'm not in a content creation, season right now. 00:09:00.693 --> 00:09:05.833 just because, I mean, like when I, when I was cranking out like a video a day or, 00:09:05.838 --> 00:09:10.803 or, or some kind of content today, like what people don't see is that I had, I've 00:09:10.808 --> 00:09:13.923 suffered with like bad sleep basically my whole life, but in the last five 00:09:13.923 --> 00:09:18.753 years I've had times where, you know, I'd get two, three hours of sleep a night. 00:09:19.196 --> 00:09:20.816 What was I doing with the rest of that time? 00:09:20.896 --> 00:09:21.856 making videos? 00:09:22.776 --> 00:09:23.126 CJ: Right. 00:09:23.311 --> 00:09:26.011 Duke: or researching or, or doing, you know, I was doing a lot of 00:09:26.011 --> 00:09:30.541 other stuff, but, I put out a ton of stuff back when I wasn't sleeping. 00:09:30.631 --> 00:09:32.818 And so it's not like I had a longer day, or it's not like 00:09:32.818 --> 00:09:34.858 I'm super, super fast at it. 00:09:35.108 --> 00:09:36.458 I just found the hour somewhere. 00:09:36.944 --> 00:09:39.764 CJ: Yeah, but you, but it costs to something else, right? 00:09:39.764 --> 00:09:41.924 Like it costs, it costs to your sleep 00:09:42.089 --> 00:09:44.969 Duke: now I sleep a lot and if somebody did say, okay for the next 00:09:44.969 --> 00:09:49.079 week, you got 28 hour days, I'd probably say, well, you know what? 00:09:49.079 --> 00:09:51.359 Like, I'm just gonna hang out with my daughter, hang out with my son, 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:53.039 and, and do that for a bit, just. 00:09:53.856 --> 00:09:54.846 CJ: I'm with you on that, right? 00:09:54.846 --> 00:09:58.176 Like, that time you can't, you can't get back either, right? 00:09:58.176 --> 00:10:00.726 And so, you know, you have to be very careful when you trade that. 00:10:00.731 --> 00:10:00.936 Right? 00:10:00.953 --> 00:10:02.093 and that's not to say, right? 00:10:02.423 --> 00:10:05.663 This isn't CJ and Duke telling, telling you guys don't create 00:10:05.663 --> 00:10:07.673 content while we're creating content. 00:10:07.673 --> 00:10:08.123 Right? 00:10:12.148 --> 00:10:12.968 Duke: Gotta secure the. 00:10:14.603 --> 00:10:14.953 CJ: Right. 00:10:15.863 --> 00:10:17.543 Too many podcasts starting up out there. 00:10:17.543 --> 00:10:19.283 We're trying to gotta lock it back down again. 00:10:19.283 --> 00:10:20.243 Too many people again, Nancy. 00:10:20.243 --> 00:10:20.543 No. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:25.619 but it's just, I think sometimes we don't talk enough about things like burnout. 00:10:25.854 --> 00:10:30.894 Things like time management, exhaustion, things like just how you spend 00:10:30.894 --> 00:10:33.954 your time and where you spend it and what's valuable at that moment. 00:10:34.404 --> 00:10:34.674 Right. 00:10:34.674 --> 00:10:38.814 And I think it's worth it sometimes to have that conversation and to, and to 00:10:38.994 --> 00:10:41.571 collectively give ourselves, permission. 00:10:41.696 --> 00:10:43.166 to take, take a step back. 00:10:43.166 --> 00:10:45.746 Sometimes I, it's, it's summertime. 00:10:45.751 --> 00:10:47.756 I'm, I'm outside 00:10:48.531 --> 00:10:51.391 Duke: Yeah, you don't have to be a content machine. 00:10:51.421 --> 00:10:56.041 Even, even if one of your explicit goals is to like get more fame or infamy 00:10:56.041 --> 00:10:59.611 on LinkedIn or, or whatever, like, again, you could take it day by day. 00:10:59.638 --> 00:11:02.218 for heaven's sakes, don't worry about making content. 00:11:02.218 --> 00:11:02.728 You know what I mean? 00:11:02.728 --> 00:11:03.808 Don't worry about it. 00:11:03.808 --> 00:11:06.981 Make it if it's flowing, but don't worry about making content. 00:11:07.373 --> 00:11:08.183 CJ: Exactly right. 00:11:08.183 --> 00:11:11.363 So, and that's, and you know, flow is a really good, point, right? 00:11:11.363 --> 00:11:13.916 Like when you're in a flow state, like, when I'm there, I 00:11:13.916 --> 00:11:15.326 like to capitalize on it, right? 00:11:15.326 --> 00:11:18.491 Because that, sometimes it takes a while to get there, right? 00:11:18.491 --> 00:11:20.771 And, you know, there's a whole lot of theories about how, you 00:11:21.131 --> 00:11:25.391 know, do, can you manifest it or you get lucky or what have you. 00:11:25.391 --> 00:11:29.921 But all I know is that once I'm there, I try to get as much out of it as I can. 00:11:32.059 --> 00:11:32.629 Duke: For real. 00:11:32.629 --> 00:11:33.109 Yeah. 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:37.999 I, I, I think just somewhat related insight from my experience making 00:11:37.999 --> 00:11:42.409 content is that, don't assume that one piece of content comes all at once. 00:11:42.409 --> 00:11:42.829 Either. 00:11:43.144 --> 00:11:43.504 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:43.819 --> 00:11:46.669 Duke: Like I've, I've had videos that just bounce around. 00:11:46.789 --> 00:11:50.719 I take little notes on them from time to time as the muse strikes, which 00:11:50.719 --> 00:11:51.799 could be like in the middle of my day. 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:53.989 It's like, no, I don't have time to like stop and make a video, 00:11:53.989 --> 00:11:56.839 but I'll take a couple notes of inspiration that I just had. 00:11:57.409 --> 00:11:58.489 On something else. 00:11:58.549 --> 00:12:02.389 So I keep like a Trello board and I keep on adding notes, and then sometimes 00:12:02.389 --> 00:12:03.649 something just hits critical mass. 00:12:03.649 --> 00:12:04.879 It's like, okay, I'm ready to record. 00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:08.349 I've had stuff that's been, some videos I've done that took me 00:12:08.349 --> 00:12:10.749 months, months to get it right. 00:12:11.979 --> 00:12:15.399 I'm not saying like months of like shoulder to the wheel, like 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:20.139 push in, but just months of like taking tiny doses of motivation. 00:12:21.739 --> 00:12:24.459 CJ: You, you know, dude, I mean, absolutely. 00:12:24.459 --> 00:12:28.629 I mean, even on this podcast right there is, we, we have a Trello board, right? 00:12:28.634 --> 00:12:31.959 It has like a running list of ideas that we have for, for show topics. 00:12:31.964 --> 00:12:36.669 And you know, sometimes we will, we'll dive into a, a, a show topic 00:12:36.669 --> 00:12:38.259 and you know, yeah, that sounds great. 00:12:38.259 --> 00:12:40.299 And then we'll be like, yeah, not quite. 00:12:40.304 --> 00:12:40.814 There yet. 00:12:41.024 --> 00:12:41.324 Right. 00:12:41.324 --> 00:12:43.574 And so we'll leave it and we'll move on to something else. 00:12:43.574 --> 00:12:44.594 Come back, revisit it. 00:12:44.594 --> 00:12:46.004 We'll groom it a little bit more, right? 00:12:46.004 --> 00:12:46.664 Like it's a story. 00:12:46.664 --> 00:12:47.804 We'll groom it a little bit more. 00:12:48.074 --> 00:12:50.804 We'll come back on it and we'll be like, eh, not quite there yet. 00:12:50.804 --> 00:12:50.984 Right? 00:12:50.989 --> 00:12:54.224 And so we've got some stuff that's been in the backlog there for quite a while. 00:12:54.224 --> 00:12:56.534 Then sometimes we'll go through the backlog and we'll be like, 00:12:56.804 --> 00:12:58.094 yeah, I'm filling that one today. 00:12:58.154 --> 00:12:58.844 Let's do that 00:12:58.929 --> 00:12:59.889 Duke: Let's finally do it. 00:13:02.204 --> 00:13:02.534 CJ: And 00:13:02.589 --> 00:13:03.579 Duke: example of that 00:13:03.961 --> 00:13:04.141 CJ: oh 00:13:04.346 --> 00:13:07.706 Duke: was um, like the gathering requirements episode. 00:13:08.201 --> 00:13:08.921 CJ: Yeah. 00:13:09.191 --> 00:13:09.491 Yeah. 00:13:09.506 --> 00:13:10.556 Duke: of like a long time waiting. 00:13:10.556 --> 00:13:11.006 Right. 00:13:11.426 --> 00:13:14.186 And then it just kinda like dawned on us when you were running for office. 00:13:14.186 --> 00:13:16.016 It's like, oh, oh yeah. 00:13:16.773 --> 00:13:18.843 CJ: Yeah, like what better use case, right? 00:13:18.893 --> 00:13:20.783 , and because it was a real world use case. 00:13:20.783 --> 00:13:23.333 I think so many, a lot of people got a lot of value out of that, right? 00:13:23.338 --> 00:13:26.983 I mean, certainly it was one of the, the most mentioned, episodes, 00:13:27.239 --> 00:13:28.409 when I was at Knowledge, right? 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:32.009 When folks like, I love the podcast and the requirements gathering episode. 00:13:32.009 --> 00:13:33.539 Oh my God, that was amazing, right? 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:34.949 And it's like, great. 00:13:35.226 --> 00:13:37.956 Because I, I do think that one, you know, for me, was really 00:13:37.956 --> 00:13:39.886 helpful, in the moment especially. 00:13:40.196 --> 00:13:42.266 , but I, I could see how it would be really helpful, right? 00:13:42.266 --> 00:13:45.266 Because we, we literally did do requirements gathering 00:13:45.271 --> 00:13:46.856 for political campaigning. 00:13:46.856 --> 00:13:50.576 I did literally use some of that in the campaign, so, it works. 00:13:50.961 --> 00:13:52.631 Duke: I, I remember we tried it once. 00:13:52.721 --> 00:13:54.941 I remember we like hit, just hit the record button, go and we 00:13:54.941 --> 00:13:56.831 jammed for a little bit and then we're like, this is not working. 00:13:57.461 --> 00:14:00.281 And we had it broken down into points, right? 00:14:00.281 --> 00:14:02.921 Where it was like point form where we're like, here's something to think about. 00:14:02.926 --> 00:14:03.641 Here's something to think about. 00:14:03.641 --> 00:14:04.451 Here's something to think about it. 00:14:04.451 --> 00:14:09.328 But it wasn't until you had the, the whole getting neck deep into your campaign 00:14:09.538 --> 00:14:13.258 that we realized let's just do the thing instead of deconstructing the thing. 00:14:13.723 --> 00:14:14.143 CJ: Right, 00:14:15.148 --> 00:14:19.078 Duke: Anyways, the here's something practically you can take away from the 00:14:19.078 --> 00:14:23.078 show though, is that let's say you aren't in the season where you're gonna spend 00:14:23.083 --> 00:14:26.634 four hours just cranking out some piece of content, but that doesn't mean you 00:14:26.634 --> 00:14:28.584 have to give up on the content altogether. 00:14:28.794 --> 00:14:30.384 Put it in a little idea vault. 00:14:30.684 --> 00:14:33.564 Come back to it in little dribs and drabs as you think about it. 00:14:33.939 --> 00:14:36.089 CJ: Yeah that's a really good point, duke. 00:14:36.189 --> 00:14:38.889 , because you will eventually create content, right? 00:14:38.894 --> 00:14:40.869 Like I know most of you out there will, if you're listening 00:14:40.869 --> 00:14:43.393 to this, that doesn't mean I'm telling you that you have to again. 00:14:43.393 --> 00:14:47.728 But I do think a lot of folks in this ecosystem do tend to evolve to that point. 00:14:48.068 --> 00:14:52.418 Having that vault of ideas when you're ready like really does minimize the 00:14:52.418 --> 00:14:56.788 amount of of prep work that you have to do when you're actually ready. 00:14:57.628 --> 00:15:01.258 , and when you're in, when you're ready, and like we said, like time is finite, right? 00:15:01.263 --> 00:15:04.318 When you're ready to, and you're ready to start making content, the 00:15:04.318 --> 00:15:09.688 thing you really want to do is make content and not try to decide what 00:15:09.688 --> 00:15:11.788 content to make or how to make it. 00:15:12.443 --> 00:15:13.943 So in your downtime, right? 00:15:13.943 --> 00:15:15.263 That's what you can be working on. 00:15:15.263 --> 00:15:18.263 It's like, what tools do I need to make the content, right? 00:15:18.313 --> 00:15:20.563 , do I have all of the setup that I want? 00:15:20.563 --> 00:15:20.803 Right? 00:15:20.803 --> 00:15:23.693 What , is my podcast editor up, up to snuff, right? 00:15:23.743 --> 00:15:24.883 , do I have distribution? 00:15:24.963 --> 00:15:27.033 , what are the ideas that I can pull from, right. 00:15:27.143 --> 00:15:28.173 Are they flushed out? 00:15:28.628 --> 00:15:29.438 You flushed out a little bit. 00:15:29.438 --> 00:15:32.648 I can pull it for a minute and I got like notes and I could just go get in on it. 00:15:32.648 --> 00:15:34.058 Do I have guests lined up? 00:15:34.058 --> 00:15:37.098 Maybe if I wanna do that, , if I wanna record a video, right? 00:15:37.098 --> 00:15:40.458 Have I have, I actually do, I know the content well enough 00:15:40.458 --> 00:15:41.994 to record a video , on that. 00:15:41.994 --> 00:15:44.814 Maybe I'll spend some of this downtime just learning the content a little bit 00:15:44.814 --> 00:15:49.794 better right offline, so that when I jump in on video, I got less fits and starts. 00:15:50.284 --> 00:15:53.884 All of those things you can do, require less, I'd say intensive time. 00:15:54.344 --> 00:15:57.314 and you know, you could do in your downtime between or 00:15:57.314 --> 00:15:58.874 before you create content, 00:15:59.239 --> 00:15:59.589 Duke: Right. 00:15:59.843 --> 00:16:03.263 I think there's a big thing to talk about here that's not just about 00:16:03.263 --> 00:16:04.793 content creation either, right? 00:16:04.793 --> 00:16:09.833 I think there's some fundamental stuff about work where understanding limits 00:16:09.838 --> 00:16:14.643 can really, I think people just need a better idea of what their limit is and 00:16:15.603 --> 00:16:18.363 at the risk of recycling our content and just saying some of this stuff 00:16:18.363 --> 00:16:22.899 over again, if you have any inkling of going independent at any time. 00:16:23.349 --> 00:16:28.009 You need to think about this a lot is exactly what your limit is. 00:16:28.009 --> 00:16:31.474 Cause I think we just get this idea like, at this rate, I'm just gonna work 00:16:31.474 --> 00:16:33.904 like 60, 80 hour weeks and just kill it. 00:16:34.421 --> 00:16:38.528 and I think that's way over most people's limits by most people. 00:16:38.528 --> 00:16:40.028 I'm talking like 99%. 00:16:40.868 --> 00:16:41.408 CJ: Yeah, man. 00:16:41.436 --> 00:16:46.051 as a reformed workaholic, Like, there, there's been times in my 00:16:46.051 --> 00:16:49.826 past right , where I've executed like a really heavy workload, right? 00:16:49.831 --> 00:16:50.641 And I killed it. 00:16:50.641 --> 00:16:52.321 But you can't do that forever. 00:16:52.321 --> 00:16:52.771 Like it is. 00:16:52.771 --> 00:16:54.541 It is, it is. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:55.989 let me put it this way, right? 00:16:55.989 --> 00:16:58.899 Like, there are times where I executed it well, there were times 00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:00.699 where I flamed out on projects right? 00:17:00.889 --> 00:17:02.869 , to the detriment of me and my client. 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:08.049 And there are times where I was on a project and I saw someone else who was 00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:11.584 carrying a, high workload and I saw them flame out and I had to pick up 00:17:11.584 --> 00:17:13.534 that slack for them and for the client. 00:17:13.781 --> 00:17:17.041 Or been called in, in situations where that, you know, Happen, and 00:17:17.041 --> 00:17:19.711 then they were left without a resource that we need to get this thing 00:17:19.711 --> 00:17:21.871 done, or the client's gonna fire us. 00:17:21.871 --> 00:17:21.991 Right? 00:17:21.991 --> 00:17:26.361 Like, I've been in all of those situations and it's, nobody ever wants to be there. 00:17:26.421 --> 00:17:29.571 So I, I think, I think we're all kind of conditioned, right? 00:17:29.691 --> 00:17:31.641 Again, like I said, I said this, a lot of knowledge, right? 00:17:31.646 --> 00:17:34.701 Like say yes to everything, but man, there's a limit, right? 00:17:34.701 --> 00:17:37.401 And I know Mo, I know what my limit is now, right? 00:17:37.581 --> 00:17:39.681 And I don't go above it, uh, most of the time. 00:17:41.971 --> 00:17:43.761 Duke: I try really hard not to go above it 00:17:43.866 --> 00:17:45.966 CJ: I try really hard not to go above it, 00:17:46.511 --> 00:17:50.334 Duke: and this in this case, it's not just you either, right. 00:17:50.426 --> 00:17:51.836 are you gonna burn yourself out? 00:17:52.013 --> 00:17:55.073 You have to ask yourself, are you putting the customers at risk as well 00:17:55.723 --> 00:17:55.963 CJ: right. 00:17:56.253 --> 00:17:58.023 Duke: or what is best for the customer? 00:17:58.053 --> 00:18:03.909 And I'll tell you what the whole idea of, do you have the time and energy to 00:18:03.909 --> 00:18:09.489 do 80 hour weeks presupposes that it does not matter when the work is done. 00:18:09.549 --> 00:18:13.083 And I would say that is a very, risky assumption to make. 00:18:13.544 --> 00:18:13.764 CJ: Yes, 00:18:14.171 --> 00:18:18.636 Duke: And I've done this plenty, so if anybody can warn you about this, it's me. 00:18:18.636 --> 00:18:21.036 You wanna take on like four or five customers at a time. 00:18:21.036 --> 00:18:23.466 And it's like, well, there's 40 hours in a week and if I give 00:18:23.466 --> 00:18:25.746 'em 10 hours each, that's 40. 00:18:25.746 --> 00:18:26.106 Right? 00:18:26.226 --> 00:18:31.296 No, because every customer wants this magic 10 hour band, and 00:18:31.296 --> 00:18:33.246 they all overlap on that band. 00:18:34.116 --> 00:18:34.746 CJ: Yeah, man. 00:18:34.746 --> 00:18:36.036 Everybody wants prime time. 00:18:36.081 --> 00:18:38.151 Duke: Yeah, they want nine to 11 on weekdays. 00:18:38.151 --> 00:18:38.781 That's what they want. 00:18:38.781 --> 00:18:39.711 Nine to 11:00 AM 00:18:40.146 --> 00:18:40.656 CJ: Yep, 00:18:41.451 --> 00:18:42.891 Duke: and that's the 10 hour band I want. 00:18:42.891 --> 00:18:46.461 Nobody wants like three to five, especially on a Friday. 00:18:46.461 --> 00:18:47.271 Are you joking me? 00:18:47.276 --> 00:18:47.691 Come on. 00:18:47.991 --> 00:18:48.801 CJ: Seriously. 00:18:49.251 --> 00:18:50.811 Seriously, and and it's funny. 00:18:50.841 --> 00:18:55.131 It is funny because that nine to 11 band is time zone independent. 00:18:55.131 --> 00:18:58.641 I can have a client on the west coast, a client on the East coast, 00:18:58.761 --> 00:19:05.331 they still somehow fall or or desire the nine to 11 central time band. 00:19:05.911 --> 00:19:06.131 Duke: It. 00:19:07.551 --> 00:19:07.881 Right. 00:19:17.121 --> 00:19:17.481 CJ: Oh. 00:19:23.406 --> 00:19:25.026 Oh, but you know, I, 00:19:25.221 --> 00:19:26.361 Duke: Don't even know, man. 00:19:27.146 --> 00:19:29.796 CJ: so, so funny thing dude, right? 00:19:29.796 --> 00:19:32.736 Like, so my family and I, we, so we sometimes take a vacation out to 00:19:32.736 --> 00:19:35.706 the West coast and we'll stay there for an extended, amount of time and 00:19:35.711 --> 00:19:38.046 I'll make it a working vacation cuz we're out there a long time, right? 00:19:38.051 --> 00:19:39.516 Get an Airbnb, that sort of thing. 00:19:39.906 --> 00:19:40.326 And. 00:19:40.901 --> 00:19:47.314 But going two hours behind your, current time zone opens up so many possibilities 00:19:47.314 --> 00:19:48.754 about how to manage your workload. 00:19:49.058 --> 00:19:51.098 Because it, I'm, I'm an early bird, right? 00:19:51.098 --> 00:19:54.398 So in, in California time, I'm up at five in the morning. 00:19:54.398 --> 00:19:55.928 It's like seven central, right? 00:19:56.228 --> 00:19:59.428 You know, I can, I can get a, I can get a jumpstart on things. 00:19:59.428 --> 00:20:03.868 I can actually do a significant amount of client work by say, noon California time. 00:20:03.868 --> 00:20:06.958 That's 2 3, 2 central, three East, eastern, right? 00:20:07.403 --> 00:20:10.463 I can close the laptop, I can go out to the beach at noon. 00:20:10.493 --> 00:20:10.763 Right? 00:20:10.763 --> 00:20:12.318 , and life is good, right? 00:20:12.318 --> 00:20:15.048 So there is something to be said sometimes about time arbitrage. 00:20:15.408 --> 00:20:16.308 Arbitrage. 00:20:16.578 --> 00:20:17.118 Um, 00:20:17.698 --> 00:20:18.298 Duke: no, for sure. 00:20:18.298 --> 00:20:21.958 I, I've started getting up a lot earlier than traditionally, and 00:20:21.963 --> 00:20:25.018 I love the fact that you, like the rest of my family's not up. 00:20:25.168 --> 00:20:26.278 The world is quiet, 00:20:27.188 --> 00:20:27.408 CJ: yes, 00:20:27.658 --> 00:20:28.198 Duke: and 00:20:29.328 --> 00:20:30.768 CJ: uninterrupted coffee. 00:20:30.903 --> 00:20:31.743 Duke: Yeah, exactly. 00:20:31.743 --> 00:20:35.793 I can go as deep as I want on something or I can just, you know, 00:20:35.793 --> 00:20:37.293 I can just screw off for an hour. 00:20:38.063 --> 00:20:44.243 I just like having the option, but, but if I get up at that hour and put the 00:20:44.243 --> 00:20:49.729 shoulder to the wheel, grind out some stuff, I'm not grinding till 5:00 PM 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:55.249 you know, and if I do, I'm not doing it for that many days cuz I'm old. 00:20:58.176 --> 00:20:58.566 CJ: right. 00:20:58.626 --> 00:21:00.486 there are those tasks, that quiet helps, right? 00:21:00.486 --> 00:21:03.956 And those tasks aren't always service down related either, right? 00:21:03.956 --> 00:21:05.816 I, I know Duke, you've got a lot of hobbies. 00:21:05.816 --> 00:21:07.676 You make soap, you do leather work, right? 00:21:07.916 --> 00:21:11.696 And some of that stuff might be, probably, might be, you know, more relaxing to do at 00:21:11.696 --> 00:21:15.386 five o'clock in the morning than at, you know, two o'clock in the, in the afternoon 00:21:15.386 --> 00:21:18.956 when you know the kids are around and they're like, daddy, daddy, daddy, right? 00:21:18.956 --> 00:21:22.479 And so, and plus you might wanna spend that two o'clock hour with the 00:21:22.479 --> 00:21:24.009 kids instead of doing leather work. 00:21:24.009 --> 00:21:24.279 Right. 00:21:24.439 --> 00:21:24.829 Duke: yeah, yeah. 00:21:24.829 --> 00:21:25.519 No, for sure. 00:21:25.749 --> 00:21:28.689 CJ: and the same way, right, like if I'm doing any of my, like, technical 00:21:28.689 --> 00:21:32.349 hobbies, home automation and that sort of thing, I'm typically doing it when 00:21:32.349 --> 00:21:36.103 either the, the family's not home or when the family's asleep, and being 00:21:36.103 --> 00:21:37.808 able to juggle that time is awesome. 00:21:37.831 --> 00:21:41.171 but I will tell you back in my workaholic days though, Getting up at five o'clock 00:21:41.171 --> 00:21:45.941 in the morning, that was like two free hours to client work, you know? 00:21:45.941 --> 00:21:47.381 And so, I don't know. 00:21:47.681 --> 00:21:48.161 I'm rambling. 00:21:48.161 --> 00:21:49.691 I have no idea where I was going with this. 00:21:49.901 --> 00:21:51.701 Uh, the point being right, is that. 00:21:52.094 --> 00:21:56.231 Folks do want that magical nine to 11, time band, And if, if 00:21:56.231 --> 00:21:59.261 you carry in multiple projects, you have to manage that. 00:21:59.501 --> 00:22:03.731 And maybe that means alternating which clients get it on which days, right? 00:22:03.736 --> 00:22:05.891 And setting that up, those recurring things up. 00:22:06.131 --> 00:22:07.661 Planning proper planning. 00:22:08.336 --> 00:22:08.516 Duke: Yeah, 00:22:08.981 --> 00:22:09.551 CJ: Proper. 00:22:09.551 --> 00:22:10.631 Was it proper planning? 00:22:10.631 --> 00:22:12.101 Prevents piss poor performance? 00:22:12.101 --> 00:22:13.721 I think that's the, uh, the maxim. 00:22:13.901 --> 00:22:14.471 do that. 00:22:14.471 --> 00:22:16.121 And maybe that's a, maybe that's a marine thing. 00:22:16.121 --> 00:22:17.231 I'm not sure I got a lot of family in 00:22:17.276 --> 00:22:19.226 Duke: think it's, uh, British s a s isn't it? 00:22:19.451 --> 00:22:20.111 CJ: Is it okay? 00:22:20.111 --> 00:22:20.441 Yeah. 00:22:20.501 --> 00:22:20.891 All right. 00:22:20.981 --> 00:22:21.551 There we go. 00:22:21.701 --> 00:22:24.461 And so it, it, and it's absolutely true, right? 00:22:24.461 --> 00:22:26.531 So if you know you're gonna be carrying multiple clients, right? 00:22:26.531 --> 00:22:28.991 And a lot of us do indies, but also at partners, right? 00:22:28.991 --> 00:22:32.081 Like you, there's, you don't get the luxury of carrying 00:22:32.081 --> 00:22:33.851 one client at most partners. 00:22:34.091 --> 00:22:35.081 Should I say that out loud? 00:22:35.081 --> 00:22:36.551 I don't know if a lot of, a lot of our clients. 00:22:36.656 --> 00:22:37.376 Duke: no, no, no, no. 00:22:37.976 --> 00:22:41.426 You, you absolutely should, because this advice is not 00:22:41.426 --> 00:22:42.836 just for indies, I'll tell you. 00:22:42.938 --> 00:22:46.028 Everybody go back and listen to the Deb Quentin episode. 00:22:46.174 --> 00:22:47.374 link will be in the description below. 00:22:47.374 --> 00:22:48.274 Everybody take a shot. 00:22:48.558 --> 00:22:53.208 remember wh when she talked about how they had a whole team 00:22:53.208 --> 00:22:54.438 doing the deployment, right? 00:22:54.708 --> 00:22:58.404 And they had an architect in that mix rate bundle, but they were getting 00:22:58.409 --> 00:23:01.014 like two hours a week of her maybe. 00:23:01.504 --> 00:23:01.724 CJ: Yes. 00:23:02.056 --> 00:23:05.138 Duke: and don't get me wrong, this girl was awesome at what she did. 00:23:05.143 --> 00:23:10.604 She was a fantastic ServiceNow architect, but they had her going on like, 10 00:23:10.609 --> 00:23:14.534 customers at once and it was just like, springboard two hours per customer. 00:23:14.984 --> 00:23:18.524 And so we'd come back and like, where are we at with this super hyper difficult. 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:20.669 Solution that needs to get designed. 00:23:21.149 --> 00:23:22.769 And it was like, hold, hold on a second. 00:23:22.769 --> 00:23:23.369 Let's catch up. 00:23:23.369 --> 00:23:28.019 Cuz it's been like nine business days since I did my last two hours stint. 00:23:28.969 --> 00:23:29.329 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:29.379 --> 00:23:29.619 Right, 00:23:29.879 --> 00:23:30.299 Duke: You know? 00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:32.553 And it's just , she had her back against the wall. 00:23:32.558 --> 00:23:37.143 There's no way she could keep up with the conversations with that amount of time. 00:23:37.593 --> 00:23:40.353 And it showed, it showed. 00:23:40.353 --> 00:23:44.963 And so for the partners, I would say know your limits is understanding. 00:23:44.981 --> 00:23:47.201 how little you can split a resource up. 00:23:47.688 --> 00:23:47.908 CJ: Yes. 00:23:48.358 --> 00:23:48.708 Right? 00:23:48.928 --> 00:23:53.548 Duke: raw hours, it's, it takes time to fully context switch. 00:23:54.538 --> 00:23:57.898 can't just say like, you're working on these four different accounts and just 00:23:57.898 --> 00:24:00.088 assume that 10 hours a week magically. 00:24:00.294 --> 00:24:04.194 like it, if I spend four hours doing assessments and surveys in a 00:24:04.194 --> 00:24:08.144 day, there's no way I'm converting to flow for another four hours, 00:24:08.444 --> 00:24:10.784 CJ: Yeah, man, that's, that's like, that's, that's 00:24:11.084 --> 00:24:12.254 literally impossible, right? 00:24:12.254 --> 00:24:16.334 Like the, the, the, the context sh shifting on that to get you back in a 00:24:16.334 --> 00:24:20.444 different frame of mind after you've been immersed so deeply in this other thing. 00:24:20.444 --> 00:24:21.494 Yeah, it's impossible. 00:24:21.824 --> 00:24:22.244 Duke: right. 00:24:22.879 --> 00:24:25.069 CJ: There's like no way like you're gonna be able to contact 00:24:25.069 --> 00:24:26.579 shift, , effectively in that case. 00:24:26.584 --> 00:24:27.119 But you know what? 00:24:27.124 --> 00:24:30.359 Also where you'll face another limit working memory. 00:24:30.739 --> 00:24:33.554 And, , this is one of those things that I think, uh, there's a good 00:24:33.554 --> 00:24:36.074 metaphor for chat G P T, right? 00:24:36.074 --> 00:24:39.554 So chat, G P T has a limited working memory, right? 00:24:39.944 --> 00:24:42.554 , I forget what they call it, like tokens or context or something like 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.746 that, but there's a certain amount Of the commands that you feed into that 00:24:46.746 --> 00:24:52.356 it responds back to you, that it can continue to keep that context as you're 00:24:52.361 --> 00:24:53.856 continuing to have that conversation. 00:24:54.209 --> 00:24:58.359 and I view context shifting, jumping from project to project kind of the same way. 00:24:58.604 --> 00:25:02.034 . Like when I'm, when I'm having that conversation with my client about 00:25:02.034 --> 00:25:05.994 whatever this particular project is, and I have to jump to another thing. 00:25:06.174 --> 00:25:09.499 If I only talked to my client for like 30 minutes and it was largely like a 00:25:09.499 --> 00:25:13.279 status update, it's a little easier to jump to another client, right? 00:25:13.284 --> 00:25:16.879 And then maybe even dive deeper on I T S M roadmaps. 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:23.129 But if I've just spent, like you said, Four hours on survey assessments and 00:25:23.129 --> 00:25:27.329 then now, now I gotta go in and build a custom map around X, Y, and Z. 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:28.649 Like, yeah, forget about it. 00:25:28.949 --> 00:25:31.464 and I'm gonna say, right, like try to know your limits and 00:25:31.464 --> 00:25:32.664 try to plan this stuff out. 00:25:33.174 --> 00:25:35.904 Also, knowing that it's going to be really hard to do that. 00:25:36.256 --> 00:25:38.446 Duke: I compare it to performance automobiles and 00:25:38.446 --> 00:25:39.736 performance athletes, right? 00:25:39.786 --> 00:25:42.816 You see these Formula One drivers and they're, they've got like 00:25:42.816 --> 00:25:44.376 standard gear shifts, right? 00:25:44.516 --> 00:25:47.696 and so you can work your way up all the gears and it takes you 00:25:47.701 --> 00:25:49.676 some time and you can break hard. 00:25:49.676 --> 00:25:51.746 You can stop really fast, but you, when you start again, 00:25:51.746 --> 00:25:53.456 you're not starting at Gear five. 00:25:54.311 --> 00:25:54.761 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:54.971 --> 00:25:55.091 Duke: Right. 00:25:55.091 --> 00:25:57.641 You gotta work your way all the way back up through the gears. 00:25:57.701 --> 00:26:01.511 Or imagine if you're an MMA fighter and you know you're going up against 00:26:01.516 --> 00:26:05.471 , some jiujitsu phenom, and you're spending all your time learning how 00:26:05.471 --> 00:26:09.821 to, not get taken to the ground and then they switch the fight on you 00:26:09.821 --> 00:26:10.931 and you're going against a striker 00:26:12.011 --> 00:26:12.551 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:13.061 --> 00:26:13.451 Duke: it. 00:26:13.451 --> 00:26:15.821 You can't just, boom, you can't change. 00:26:15.821 --> 00:26:18.701 And like, I can't think of very many contexts where. 00:26:19.016 --> 00:26:24.836 People successfully context switch at maximal performance rapidly in a day. 00:26:25.353 --> 00:26:27.093 You ever watch those videos about those people who are 00:26:27.093 --> 00:26:28.353 just like magic at their work? 00:26:28.353 --> 00:26:31.143 You know, like some dude at a taco stand or something, he's like 00:26:31.353 --> 00:26:32.853 twirling things in the air and just, 00:26:34.353 --> 00:26:35.373 CJ: Oh man, I love those. 00:26:36.213 --> 00:26:37.503 Duke: and you wonder how they get so good. 00:26:37.503 --> 00:26:40.929 It's just like doing exactly just that for 40 hours a week. 00:26:41.739 --> 00:26:42.069 CJ: Yes. 00:26:42.849 --> 00:26:43.239 Yes. 00:26:43.239 --> 00:26:47.859 Like that is the only thing that is the focus, and that is, and you become like 00:26:47.919 --> 00:26:50.109 basically a savant at that one thing. 00:26:50.139 --> 00:26:51.789 And, and, and that's okay. 00:26:51.986 --> 00:26:52.856 Focus is good. 00:26:53.186 --> 00:26:55.496 You know, there's, um, and there's a time, I think Duke, 00:26:55.496 --> 00:26:56.546 you would agree with this, right? 00:26:56.546 --> 00:26:59.826 Like back in the day when you, when I started, being a ServiceNow 00:26:59.826 --> 00:27:01.206 generalist was the thing. 00:27:01.256 --> 00:27:03.416 . You be knowing the entire platform. 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.916 everybody aspired to know the entire platform. 00:27:07.213 --> 00:27:07.873 Duke: when you could. 00:27:07.873 --> 00:27:08.053 Right? 00:27:08.293 --> 00:27:08.803 CJ: right back. 00:27:09.013 --> 00:27:09.493 I was gonna say. 00:27:09.493 --> 00:27:10.183 Yeah, exactly. 00:27:10.183 --> 00:27:11.113 Back when you could. 00:27:11.118 --> 00:27:15.733 Right now, I don't even know every module that exists on the platform. 00:27:16.063 --> 00:27:16.513 Duke: yeah. 00:27:16.513 --> 00:27:23.103 I mean, just look at now learning their paths for CTA and cma. 00:27:23.563 --> 00:27:23.923 Right? 00:27:24.043 --> 00:27:28.423 And, and it, they say stuff like, pick any X of this y. 00:27:29.098 --> 00:27:29.518 CJ: right. 00:27:29.848 --> 00:27:31.408 Duke: They're not saying you gotta know everything. 00:27:31.408 --> 00:27:33.988 It's just like, okay, well there's uh, 13 different options. 00:27:33.988 --> 00:27:35.518 You gotta pick like four of them. 00:27:35.848 --> 00:27:36.418 CJ: Yeah, right. 00:27:36.418 --> 00:27:38.818 Like, uh, uh, you know, some of, some of the buck one and some of 00:27:38.818 --> 00:27:43.048 bucket two and yeah, and, and you know, you end up and it's like, wow. 00:27:43.208 --> 00:27:47.488 , and I mean, , 10 years ago it was know the platform, right. 00:27:47.488 --> 00:27:47.728 And. 00:27:48.638 --> 00:27:51.668 Yeah, I mean, it was, it was definitely a lot, a lot more difficult, um, 00:27:51.668 --> 00:27:55.028 then, but, but my point being right, is that you can focus, right? 00:27:55.028 --> 00:27:59.318 That's where I was getting into is that you can focus, you can spend 40 hours 00:27:59.318 --> 00:28:03.101 training on knowing just the one thing, And you can be really, really good at 00:28:03.106 --> 00:28:04.691 it, and you can make a career on that. 00:28:04.691 --> 00:28:08.681 And ServiceNow, right now, doing just that r that one thing with 00:28:08.681 --> 00:28:09.941 some platform knowledge, right? 00:28:09.941 --> 00:28:13.301 Like, I mean, you, you got another platform in addition to that one thing, 00:28:13.351 --> 00:28:13.711 Duke: Yeah. 00:28:13.771 --> 00:28:15.181 Well that's, that's a limit too, right? 00:28:15.186 --> 00:28:16.171 How wide can you go? 00:28:16.171 --> 00:28:17.461 How wide should you go? 00:28:18.301 --> 00:28:21.481 And I think back to all the boot campers, like back when. 00:28:21.586 --> 00:28:24.796 That renaissance of boot camps and just all of a sudden we were both 00:28:24.796 --> 00:28:28.156 inundated with people asking us questions about, I think one of the big common 00:28:28.156 --> 00:28:29.386 ones was, what niche should I pick? 00:28:29.386 --> 00:28:30.886 I'm like, what niche? 00:28:31.906 --> 00:28:33.076 You don't even know. 00:28:33.376 --> 00:28:34.516 You know the basics. 00:28:34.521 --> 00:28:35.296 What are you talking about? 00:28:35.296 --> 00:28:35.656 Niche. 00:28:35.661 --> 00:28:39.186 And it's just like when you start, you cannot go wide. 00:28:39.771 --> 00:28:42.561 You've gotta start with the building blocks, and there's enough of those 00:28:42.561 --> 00:28:46.671 to be wide enough as it is, but you just, you can't afford to go wide. 00:28:46.701 --> 00:28:49.221 That's a huge limit that you should understand. 00:28:49.641 --> 00:28:52.731 Don't worry about the niches, don't worry about all that process stuff. 00:28:52.731 --> 00:28:53.991 Get the fundamentals down. 00:28:54.831 --> 00:28:56.571 CJ: Yeah, man, you gotta know the platform. 00:28:56.571 --> 00:28:58.911 If you don't know the platform, like it doesn't really matter how 00:28:58.911 --> 00:29:01.101 well you know the rest of it, unless you're not planning on having a 00:29:01.106 --> 00:29:03.231 technical role right in, in ecosystem. 00:29:03.231 --> 00:29:05.931 And then in which case, like be a process person, right? 00:29:05.936 --> 00:29:08.711 Like you be a person who's in the meetings, and mapping everything 00:29:08.711 --> 00:29:13.091 out and talking like, this is how a proper x y, z process works. 00:29:13.401 --> 00:29:16.041 but you're going to need somebody technical in that, in that meeting 00:29:16.041 --> 00:29:17.751 with, you can say, okay, that's great. 00:29:18.016 --> 00:29:20.836 But these are the, um, restrictions that you're gonna run into in ServiceNow, 00:29:20.836 --> 00:29:23.416 or these are the, this is the trouble you're gonna get into, right? 00:29:23.416 --> 00:29:26.836 And so they can kind of move those lines around so you end up with 00:29:26.836 --> 00:29:29.566 something that is actually buildable at the end of those conversations. 00:29:29.959 --> 00:29:30.749 Duke: Well, I'll tell you one thing. 00:29:31.009 --> 00:29:32.553 Like it's kind of topical. 00:29:32.656 --> 00:29:38.776 one thing I've learned in my forties is that balance makes everything better. 00:29:39.641 --> 00:29:39.861 CJ: Yes. 00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:44.039 Duke: and another stupid, like cliche, but, but it really does, right? 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.859 Like, I think in my, in my twenties and thirties, I'd be like, no, I'm gonna 00:29:46.864 --> 00:29:48.659 brute force this man 80 hours a week. 00:29:48.659 --> 00:29:48.989 Bigger. 00:29:48.989 --> 00:29:49.049 Yeah. 00:29:50.329 --> 00:29:54.159 I'd brute force it and maybe a couple times that worked 00:29:54.164 --> 00:29:55.359 good in the short term, I. 00:29:55.959 --> 00:29:59.279 I'll tell you, man, like if your time is balanced, you're good with your 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:04.279 family, you're good with your sleep, you're good with your fitness, it 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:07.369 makes everything go faster and better. 00:30:07.469 --> 00:30:11.319 When I started working out really hard, doing critically difficult 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:16.239 workouts twice a week, my, I, I could feel how much smarter. 00:30:16.884 --> 00:30:21.414 And quicker and more attentive I was at my ServiceNow work. 00:30:21.714 --> 00:30:25.794 It all comes together, and that was just by understanding balance 00:30:25.794 --> 00:30:27.474 instead of just brute force. 00:30:27.474 --> 00:30:29.484 Push it to the limit, don't push it to the limit. 00:30:29.664 --> 00:30:31.164 Get everything in balance. 00:30:31.394 --> 00:30:31.994 CJ: yeah. 00:30:32.054 --> 00:30:33.704 You know man, that's a really good point. 00:30:33.709 --> 00:30:36.684 And, , I think my wife would say, I don't have enough balance. 00:30:38.644 --> 00:30:42.669 And, and, and it's funny and, uh, You know, it's, it's, I was, I was talking to, 00:30:43.209 --> 00:30:45.039 we'll wrap it up and here I go and diving 00:30:45.129 --> 00:30:45.699 Duke: no, go ahead. 00:30:45.699 --> 00:30:45.859 We. 00:30:46.629 --> 00:30:48.669 CJ: but no, I, I was talking to my therapist, right? 00:30:48.669 --> 00:30:51.296 And my therapist was preaching exactly what you just said, duke, 00:30:51.356 --> 00:30:54.199 balance, It was like, yeah, man, you need balance in your life. 00:30:54.199 --> 00:30:57.449 I'm like, yeah, but , I'm one of those folks that I get some 00:30:57.449 --> 00:30:58.739 of that balance from work. 00:30:59.594 --> 00:31:03.224 Like I, I, problem solving is, is one of those things that I'm, I'm 00:31:03.224 --> 00:31:05.054 always seeking in my life, right? 00:31:05.054 --> 00:31:05.871 Because I like that. 00:31:05.871 --> 00:31:08.041 dopamine hit of, of developing the solution. 00:31:08.431 --> 00:31:10.741 And, uh, I have no idea where I'm going with this. 00:31:10.741 --> 00:31:15.931 We can scrap this whole part wherever I was going. 00:31:15.931 --> 00:31:16.411 I lost it. 00:31:16.411 --> 00:31:17.251 Mid, mid train. 00:31:17.368 --> 00:31:17.548 but 00:31:17.923 --> 00:31:20.683 Duke: But, but I think what you're saying is that there, there's 00:31:20.683 --> 00:31:24.753 something that you need on the deep end of the pool in your work. 00:31:24.753 --> 00:31:24.813 I. 00:31:25.458 --> 00:31:25.968 CJ: Yeah. 00:31:25.988 --> 00:31:29.695 And balance is, is part of that, and so what I, what I, I can think what I 00:31:29.695 --> 00:31:34.338 was getting at is that, be careful that you, don't over-optimize in one way. 00:31:34.338 --> 00:31:37.608 Cuz I abso, I absolutely love what you said, dude, like, when you were working 00:31:37.608 --> 00:31:41.585 out, like you became better at your job because your physical muscles, right? 00:31:41.585 --> 00:31:43.235 Like, you weren't neglecting them. 00:31:43.775 --> 00:31:47.915 And so that enabled you, your mental muscle to, to focus better. 00:31:48.395 --> 00:31:49.985 To work better, more efficiently. 00:31:50.095 --> 00:31:53.275 I think sometimes we don't see the correlation between some of these things. 00:31:53.575 --> 00:31:54.385 Duke: No, we don't. 00:31:54.385 --> 00:31:58.015 The biggest aha moment for me was like, my brain is part of my body. 00:31:58.315 --> 00:32:00.325 It does not exist on its own. 00:32:00.685 --> 00:32:04.271 And, you put in a workout to the point where your body's like, we're gonna die. 00:32:04.301 --> 00:32:07.271 Like, we're literally, like, this is not supposed to happen. 00:32:07.271 --> 00:32:09.101 Our muscles are not supposed to be torn up inside. 00:32:09.971 --> 00:32:13.131 And it floods you with all kinds of chemicals to make 00:32:13.131 --> 00:32:14.931 you survive and to make sure. 00:32:14.931 --> 00:32:18.411 It's like, if I'm ever in that position again, oh no, we're gonna be ready. 00:32:18.411 --> 00:32:21.041 And so your body does all kinds of good stuff. 00:32:21.491 --> 00:32:22.541 All kinds of good stuff. 00:32:22.571 --> 00:32:22.841 Okay. 00:32:22.961 --> 00:32:24.221 Totally off topic, but I'll 00:32:24.341 --> 00:32:25.061 CJ: No, 00:32:25.151 --> 00:32:28.391 Duke: if you wanna make your Service now game that much better, but you don't know 00:32:28.391 --> 00:32:32.531 how, like in terms of studying, in terms of whatever, go and push some steel into 00:32:34.051 --> 00:32:34.341 CJ: Yeah. 00:32:34.601 --> 00:32:36.041 Duke: go have an intense workout. 00:32:36.278 --> 00:32:39.965 make your muscles go into hypertrophy and then see how you feel the next day. 00:32:40.655 --> 00:32:43.415 There's nothing that being strong doesn't make better. 00:32:43.925 --> 00:32:45.725 CJ: Uh, no, I, I totally agree with you, right? 00:32:45.725 --> 00:32:47.795 , there is nothing that being strong doesn't make better. 00:32:48.095 --> 00:32:50.045 and, just tie it off. 00:32:50.045 --> 00:32:54.555 There's nothing, that training doesn't make better, Because like you said, 00:32:54.555 --> 00:32:57.725 something that I thought was , really, interesting and on point, right? 00:32:57.725 --> 00:33:01.583 Like The reason your body like goes through these kind of recovery mechanisms 00:33:01.793 --> 00:33:06.203 and gets better right as you are working out over time is because you put it in 00:33:06.203 --> 00:33:10.703 this position and your body is naturally like, all right, if we're in this 00:33:10.708 --> 00:33:12.173 situation again, we know what to do. 00:33:12.773 --> 00:33:13.013 Right? 00:33:13.013 --> 00:33:13.673 That's training. 00:33:14.378 --> 00:33:16.118 And that just works for everything, right? 00:33:16.118 --> 00:33:16.568 Like anything. 00:33:16.748 --> 00:33:20.698 And I guess we typically call it experience, but to get experience, 00:33:20.698 --> 00:33:22.378 you gotta exp you gotta train, right? 00:33:22.378 --> 00:33:24.658 Like, you gotta see a situation before. 00:33:24.748 --> 00:33:28.888 Uh, and that dovetails into something we've always said, duke build something. 00:33:29.573 --> 00:33:29.963 Duke: Yeah. 00:33:29.968 --> 00:33:30.323 Yeah. 00:33:30.323 --> 00:33:34.563 And I, I got, this is just, this is coming to me new here, , it's coming into my 00:33:34.563 --> 00:33:36.363 brain cuz of the physicality metaphor. 00:33:37.053 --> 00:33:40.533 But at a certain point, if you're just working out, you're 00:33:40.533 --> 00:33:41.823 just making yourself tired. 00:33:42.543 --> 00:33:46.383 You have to rest and recuperate cuz that's when your body says, okay, the big scary 00:33:46.388 --> 00:33:48.153 weights aren't on top of us anymore. 00:33:48.603 --> 00:33:52.983 And you know, now we can feed nutrients into our muscles so that they grow. 00:33:54.093 --> 00:33:58.593 And I think even outside the realm of the physical, that is true as well. 00:33:58.593 --> 00:34:02.913 If you can, if you're putting in 80 hour weeks to do something, at a certain point, 00:34:02.913 --> 00:34:06.663 you're not gonna store the knowledge, you won't have time to reflect on it. 00:34:06.663 --> 00:34:10.593 You won't have time to like reassess it and it'll just be waste. 00:34:10.683 --> 00:34:12.483 It'll be waste, cognitive ability. 00:34:12.790 --> 00:34:13.510 CJ: Absolutely 00:34:14.100 --> 00:34:18.160 Duke: So like rest and recuperation has to be built into this, 00:34:18.310 --> 00:34:19.780 especially if you're going hard. 00:34:20.710 --> 00:34:22.330 CJ: Especially if you going hard, right? 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:25.330 And that brings us back full circle to where we started, right? 00:34:25.330 --> 00:34:30.790 Like, it's okay to sometimes say no, it's okay to not be, you know, to, 00:34:30.910 --> 00:34:32.530 yeah, I'm not gonna make content today. 00:34:32.590 --> 00:34:33.580 It's okay, right? 00:34:33.580 --> 00:34:33.760 It is. 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:36.130 Or I'm not ready to make content today. 00:34:36.680 --> 00:34:39.980 Because that rest and recuperation is absolutely necessary too. 00:34:40.815 --> 00:34:42.125 Duke: absolutely a hundred percent necessary. 00:34:42.785 --> 00:34:44.075 A great place to drop it off. 00:34:44.075 --> 00:34:45.275 That was, that was swell. 00:34:50.300 --> 00:34:51.230 CJ: Yes, that was. 00:34:59.135 --> 00:35:00.155 Duke: Still have an outro. 00:35:00.155 --> 00:35:02.105 Maybe next time we'll talk to you later.