Heidi [00:00:00]: In this episode, you'll hear a clip from a one on one strategy session with one of my Fast students, Jacqueline Schumann. Jacqueline is a freelance fashion designer specializing in sustainable denim. But she realized she was getting stuck in her comfort zone after she had some heart to hearts with her husband, who called her out on it. Jacqueline's struggling with needing permission, doing the next steps in her freelance career. Specifically, when it comes to sending pitches, she compares it to how she's been used to getting permission. Like, in school, she got permission from teachers, and in work, she got permission from her bosses. And as a freelancer, it can be hard to transition where you have to call the shots and you're the one giving yourself permission to move on to each next step. Yes, my portfolio is good enough. Yes, my niche is good enough. Yes, my pitch is good enough, and I am ready to hit send. So Jacqueline and I talk through some of the systems and mindset strategies that she can implement to give herself permission so she can continue making progress in her freelance career and stop getting stuck. You're going to love this strategy session. Let's get to it. So let's talk about this a little bit. I think I can stop sharing now. Where are you at with pitching? Because what I read in your strategy session form was, like, felt like you're having a really hard time hitting send. Jacqueline [00:01:13]: Yeah, because I feel like I'm a product of traditional education, and I've always thrived in it. Like, I loved school growing up. I loved my time at Fitham. I had such a blast. Even though I have things here and there that I wish were different, I've always thrived in school. And so I think I wait for permission in the way that a teacher does, like, oh, good job. Here's a gold star. Like, you're good to go to pass to the next level. I feel like it's such a different place for me to give myself that you're good, you can move on, you're doing well, you can move on, you can hit send. Heidi [00:01:57]: Okay. Jacqueline [00:01:57]: And I feel like it's breaking the traditional education employee mindset because I really thrived in those areas. Heidi [00:02:06]: Okay. Jacqueline [00:02:07]: I've always been a great employee, and so there's no one else here telling me, you're doing a good job. You can move on to this next level. Yeah. So I think that's where it comes from. Heidi [00:02:23]: Okay. That's very self aware, so that's great. So we just need to then think about how do we get past that? So, one, I just told you you're doing a great job, so you have permission from me if that's what you really felt like you needed. Jacqueline [00:02:37]: Right. Heidi [00:02:38]: Push and hit send. Jacqueline [00:02:40]: Yeah. Heidi [00:02:41]: Second, when it comes to anything that you're doing yourself, like, freelancing or I'm running this business, what I've learned over the years, if you wait for permission, nothing is ever going to get done. And so you have to sort of trust your gut, make a decision, lean into the discomfort of like, is it the right decision? I don't know. And if it's the wrong decision, you're going to learn that it's the wrong decision. And then you know how to do it differently the next time and keep iterating to do better and better and better. Then at least you're learning. You're taking action, you're making some type of progress. Yeah. Doubt kills dreams more than failure ever will. There's a quote. Jacqueline [00:03:26]: Oh, yeah. Heidi [00:03:27]: If you heard that one, for sure. Jacqueline [00:03:28]: And I think I thought that I got over that when I very first hit publish on my website. It was like a panic inducing attack. And then I realized, like, guess what? Life moves on. Just do it. And so I'm like, okay, got over that. Okay. The very first time I sent a pitch, it took me way too long and it was so scary. And then I did it. And the second time I'm like, okay, I can do this again. Keep going. Yeah, so I thought that I was growing in those ways and then it just kind of pulled back of cold pitching upwork. I'm like, they already want a freelance. Heidi [00:04:10]: Totally. And listen upwork can be great. I don't want to discount the value of that platform nor the comfort that it can create. Jacqueline [00:04:20]: Yeah. Heidi [00:04:20]: So keep going for it. I think I say all the time, all of this is a muscle. Right. So if you start exercising that muscle yeah. The pitching and hitting send and knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect is not going to be perfect. It will probably never be perfect, right? Jacqueline [00:04:40]: Yeah. Heidi [00:04:41]: But what you're doing is already so far above and beyond what most people do that just ride that wave and that's going to get you success. Jacqueline [00:04:49]: Probably something along the lines of confidence and self doubt. Heidi [00:04:54]: Yeah, I was going to say something along the lines of like, fail and fail fast. Jacqueline [00:05:00]: Yeah. Heidi [00:05:02]: Really something to be said for that, right? Jacqueline [00:05:04]: Yeah. And I guess that's where I really feel like the pitches that I don't hear back from, I'm like, oh, fail and fail fast. Not that I failed at that pitch, but it was just like, oh, hearing the critiques from you, I'm like, okay, that's such good feedback that now I understand how to tweak this pitch a little bit and I just keep going and going. And I think other than the schooling and the comfort zone that is student of like, I am the student, you are the mentor. It's just such a comfort zone. Heidi [00:05:36]: Yeah. Jacqueline [00:05:37]: But I think I haven't been pitching enough to flex that muscle and to grow that muscle that it got back to such a scary place. But I started pitching again last week and the week before and even just having conversations with my husband about like, oh, hey, how many pitches did you send? Like, kind of like an accountability situation. That's also really helpful. Heidi [00:06:04]: Good, because he has a freelance business, too, right? Jacqueline [00:06:07]: No, he works full time. Heidi [00:06:09]: Okay. Oh, him asking you how many pitches you sent. Yeah, for sure. I mean, if that works for you and your husband, I think that's a great support network to have. Jacqueline [00:06:22]: Yeah, because it's so tied to our goals of our financial goals and just where we want to be. I need to keep pitching to flex that muscle. Heidi [00:06:35]: What changed that you started pitching again last week? In the last week or two? Jacqueline [00:06:40]: Another really hard conversation with my husband. Heidi [00:06:42]: Okay. Jacqueline [00:06:44]: So my office is like a part of our bedroom, and the way that my desk was, the computer screen is facing the bed, so when my alarm goes off at 05:00 A.m., he can see exactly what I'm working on. And he saw me kind of working more with the modules inside fast and, like, the portfolio roadmap and then that other self directed project, and he was kind of like, hey, comfort zone, how's pitching going? I see you're working on this. And it was just, like, a very gentle reminder of kind of let's bring it back to pitching and step away from the comfort zone. Heidi [00:07:19]: I don't want to put any words in your mouth. So how do you feel about pitching? How does it make you feel? Jacqueline [00:07:23]: It makes me feel like a total imposter. Heidi [00:07:28]: Okay, so are you lying about your work? Jacqueline [00:07:32]: No, because I know I'm being super transparent about, like I'm not. Heidi [00:07:40]: I'm trying to dig into, like you're not being deceiving. Jacqueline [00:07:44]: Yeah, I don't want to be. Heidi [00:07:45]: There's really no reason for you to feel like an imposter. Everybody starts somewhere like, listen, you're already very knowledgeable. I know you might not feel that way, or you don't have all this experience on paper, but you're obviously very driven and savvy and passionate, and you take the time to research and read and probably go to the webinars and do all the education. So there are people, like, some brands that upwork pitch we went through some brands want that experienced person. Great. They're not your client yet. Yeah, but there's many brands for long list of reasons that are happy to go with someone who has less experience but is so driven, so passionate. Yeah. That's huge. So you have the impostor syndrome. I think that was the word. Like, a big imposter. Jacqueline [00:08:37]: Yeah. I'm feeling it less and less as I go. But I think even though I agreed with your have do be? Heidi [00:08:47]: Yeah, be do have. Jacqueline [00:08:49]: I have to look at it because I get it mixed up. When I first heard you talking about that, I was like, oh, yeah, I agree with that. Totally. Totally. I get it. But it challenged my impostor syndrome because it's like, okay, if I just pick denim, that doesn't all of a sudden make me an expert. That's what I was challenging myself on. Or if I just picked men's suits, that doesn't all of a sudden make me an expert. And so I've been straddling the paradigm of not admitting and knowing that I'm not an expert, but giving the value that I do have. And it's those offhanded conversations that I'm afraid are happening in the background of, like, oh, my gosh, this girl doesn't even know what she's doing. Yeah, okay, that offhanded comment. Heidi [00:09:37]: I mean, listen, I think that just because you're like, oh, I'm going to pick this niche. I'm going to be that denim designer, doesn't mean that you're saying you're all of a sudden an expert. I imagine it would take many years of deep work in the denim industry to actually come out feeling like an expert. So many nuances to this category. Jacqueline [00:09:55]: Yeah, there's a lot. And that's what made me think about, like, well, hold on. There were so many denim projects that I did at Fittim, and they offered a denim tour, which was, like, a three day event just for visiting denim washes and brands and seeing how they actually put the tears in, put the abrasions in. And I did that. I went and I have videos from there, and I'm like, Hold on, I do know things. Yeah. I just have to keep reminding myself I'm not an expert. But I did go do that. I saw that. I have been to denim mills. I have been to denim brands, and I've spoken with those owners, and I asked a lot of questions during that time. And I think it's the lapse of time that makes me feel, because that Fittem for me was 2015. Heidi [00:10:45]: Okay, so eight years ago. Okay. Jacqueline [00:10:48]: Yeah. So the gap in time and then being in a whirlwind of motherhood life. Heidi [00:10:54]: I know it's a lot. Jacqueline [00:10:57]: Yeah. Heidi [00:10:58]: But I think you need to think, too. So Be do have, I think is more about the mindset than, like, oh, I am a denim expert. It's more about the mindset of, like, be that successful denim designer. What are they doing? They're doing the things that are making them uncomfortable. They're putting themselves out there. They're hitting send on the pitch even though they feel a little bit nervous. They're applying for that upwork gig, even though they are not as experienced as the job posting is saying. So it's more about the actions that you do or don't take. And that's where a lot of people get stuck. They're like, well, once I have the experience, then I can send the pitch. Right. Jacqueline [00:11:43]: The chicken or the egg. Totally. Heidi [00:11:46]: And so I think it sounds like in the last week or two after you had that heart to heart with your husband, that's when things are changing, and now, okay, you're pushing yourself. You're like, okay, I might feel, like. Jacqueline [00:11:57]: Real uncomfortable throw up over here. Heidi [00:12:01]: Yeah. And are they having conversations about you behind their back. Probably not. Jacqueline [00:12:07]: And if they made it up in. Heidi [00:12:09]: My mind, I know and we all do. Likely not, right? Jacqueline [00:12:15]: Yeah. Heidi [00:12:15]: Excuse me. And I so cliche. But if they are, then that's their problem. Jacqueline [00:12:20]: So what? So what? I know that as long as I yeah. I think when I do have those thoughts, I need to remember to lead it with like as long as I'm leading my life and my business with integrity and transparency, then that's all that matters. Heidi [00:12:38]: And you're putting in the hard work and you're putting in the effort and you're doing a lot of self directed education on, like you Googled sulfur dye. You're proactive to like, yeah, I might not have all the experience, but I'm. Jacqueline [00:12:54]: Going to work my what I bring in ambition and passion and drive and being scrappy, I'm like, that's going to take me far. Heidi [00:13:05]: It will, yes. And there are plenty of brands out there that love that type of character. Jacqueline [00:13:12]: Yeah. Scrappiness. Heidi [00:13:14]: Yeah. So I think just keep exercising that muscle. Don't let it get fatigued again. Right. And listen, success is not a straight line. You've seen the thing. You've seen all the memes about that. So don't feel a little backwards like you're going to yeah. But think about what can you do to still try to keep moving forward, to not atrophy that muscle. And if you do again, that's okay. Don't beat yourself up. I mean, I've been working so hard this past six months on the business. We've been doing a million things and last winter I probably hiked like two or three times a week, like eight to ten mile hikes. Oh, wow. In the snow, I would go out. Jacqueline [00:13:56]: It was like, oh, you're not afraid of the snow hiking. Heidi [00:13:58]: No, it was like my release. Yeah. My therapy. And this year that muscle is really atrophied. There will be like three weeks where I will not get out. And last week I went on two hikes that were like 3 miles each. I've just felt so busy that I haven't been able to do it. And so I'm trying not to beat myself up over it and more being like, okay, I'll build back up. I'll build back up. It happens. We have setbacks, right? Jacqueline [00:14:27]: Yeah. I think if I relate that a lot to having kids, it clicks immediately because after giving birth with no epidural. Heidi [00:14:37]: I'm like. Jacqueline [00:14:40]: I know my body is really tired right now. This is where I'm at. But I will get back to the place where I'm working out five days a week. I know I'm going to get back there. And so if I think if I relate it to that and just like these other places in my life where there was a season where I didn't do that or there was a season where that was at its peak, I'm. Heidi [00:15:01]: Like, okay, there's a lot of seasonality. If you slow down on the pitches for some reason again, what is the reason for that? Jacqueline [00:15:12]: Identifying that right. Heidi [00:15:13]: Identifying the reason. If the reason is because, oh, now all of a sudden, you got sucked into learning how to do tech packs or something. Jacqueline [00:15:20]: It's like a little alert system, like, oh, wait, let's get am I on. Heidi [00:15:24]: A comfort zone activity, or am I. Jacqueline [00:15:25]: Not doing this because I have so many projects? Heidi [00:15:28]: Or, like, gosh, both my kids are sick, and blah, blah, whatever, right. Like, life. If there's legitimate situations where this is not the season for pitching for a few weeks or maybe even a month or sick, maybe a parent gets sick or something. I don't know. Right. Those things happen. So be kind to yourself about that, but then also be not harshly self aware. Am I trading this challenging activity or uncomfortable activity, which is pitching for something that feels good? Jacqueline [00:16:04]: Yeah, that makes sense. Heidi [00:16:05]: And listen, if we get to the point where you start having some conversation with brands and you lose a couple of gigs because you don't have the tech pack skill then we have, maybe. Jacqueline [00:16:15]: That would be worth addressing that and. Heidi [00:16:18]: Hard data that says, I got to take a week or two weeks out to figure this tech pack thing out. Okay. I don't want it to be a comfort zone activity, but I would need. Jacqueline [00:16:29]: Proof to show to my husband, because. Heidi [00:16:32]: I could have gotten these gigs if I had the tech pack thing. I lost them. So now it's happened two or three times. So now I know that I do have to prioritize this yeah. Jacqueline [00:16:43]: And that it's not in my head, and that that's an accurate reflection of, like, I could have gotten that. Heidi [00:16:47]: Okay, yes. But we need some so, like, maybe, you know, that upwork opportunity. Like, let's say you landed a phone call, a discovery call, right. And you hadn't put the tech pack scene in the pitch, and then the tech pack scene comes up, and they were like, gosh, Jacqueline, you're great, but we really need a one stop one stop shop. Yeah. So you're you know, and maybe even, like, one gig could be enough to be like, okay, let me focus on tech packs for two weeks, get through design to development. I mean, I don't know what the rest of your life and schedule looks like. I know your mom and life is busy. Jacqueline [00:17:23]: Yeah, it's mom. And this I was listening to another strategy session, and the girl had, like, a full time job and then a side gig and then two kids, and I was like, oh, gosh, okay. This is hard enough for me of two kids and this but anytime I'm not fully mom, this is it for me. Heidi [00:17:46]: Okay. Which, let's be honest, mom is a very consuming job, mentally, physically, emotionally, like, on so many levels. I get it. Jacqueline [00:17:58]: Yeah. That's why my alarm goes off at either 445 or five, and I am. Heidi [00:18:02]: Like, you get some work done in the morning. Jacqueline [00:18:04]: Yes, the morning and then nap time. Those are like my sweet spot. And then the evenings are kind of just iffy, but yeah, I have to really play Jenga with my life. Heidi [00:18:16]: Yeah, I hear you. I mean, we are fortunate. We have daycare four days a week, which is very nice. Jacqueline [00:18:22]: Yeah, that's amazing. That's also another touch point of motivation. If there are moments where I am struggling, that is another goal that I want to get to the point where I can pay for help. Because I have been at the breaking point so many times of trying to send an email and he's crawling on me and trying to do this and then the dogs are barking or trying to get just a very small thing done and he's crying or something like that. Heidi [00:18:52]: It's a lot. Jacqueline [00:18:54]: So having childcare, like getting to that point for where my work is paying for that would be huge. I mean, that would be a dream. Heidi [00:19:03]: Yeah. You'll get there and give yourself some leeway in the meantime. It's a lot being a mom, it's a lot. Jacqueline [00:19:10]: Yeah, I'm pretty good about that. If I push to wake up early and then if I'm using the hours that I do have appropriately, then I am proud of myself for that day. Good. Heidi [00:19:23]: Okay. And some days go good and some days go not so good. Right. You don't beat yourself up over it. So, yeah, I think put the pedal down on the pitches, do the follow ups. I will be shocked if you don't start hearing back very quickly. Your pitches are very good and you're very specific and you're showing you're putting in the work. And then if you need to tackle the tech pack thing, you can tackle it, but only when you get some data on that. Jacqueline [00:19:52]: Okay. I think that's a good plan, which. Heidi [00:19:55]: I know I said two or three. If it's like, what's going to be a great project and you lost it because the tech pack thing, like one, I think is actually arguably enough. Jacqueline [00:20:02]: Yeah. Heidi [00:20:02]: Okay. And then give yourself like a tight time block, like two weeks or like, I don't know, whatever makes sense for you. A week, whatever, and be like, okay, by the end of this two weeks, I'm going to have gone through the course. I will have completed a self directed tech pack. I can take a couple of screenshots of that. Jacqueline [00:20:18]: Literally. Heidi [00:20:18]: All you need is a couple of screenshots, like two pages. It's not much. Just to visually show again, like technical sketch and then maybe like not a pom, but a BOM, a bill of measure or bill of materials and that's it. Jacqueline [00:20:31]: Yeah. Don't overthink it. Heidi [00:20:33]: You don't have to overthink it. Jacqueline [00:20:34]: Yeah. Okay. Heidi [00:20:35]: All right, you're doing great. Jacqueline [00:20:37]: Okay. Heidi [00:20:38]: Keep exercising that muscle and yeah, you're doing great. Keep it up.