WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.870 --> 00:00:06.600 Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions. 00:00:07.020 --> 00:00:07.860 Let's dive in. 00:00:09.848 --> 00:00:12.758 Paul Spencer: When I first started working with family owned businesses 00:00:12.848 --> 00:00:16.718 almost not quite 10 years ago now, which seems like a ton of time ago. 00:00:17.288 --> 00:00:22.658 Um, but they, one, one thing that I would learn from them is they 00:00:22.658 --> 00:00:28.268 wanted to, and they use this word, they wanted to hold some of the 00:00:28.268 --> 00:00:30.998 people around them more accountable. 00:00:31.553 --> 00:00:35.993 And they would use the, the accountable word, Paul, how do I hold my 00:00:35.993 --> 00:00:39.203 operations person more accountable? 00:00:39.443 --> 00:00:42.563 How do I hold my delivery team more accountable? 00:00:42.833 --> 00:00:47.933 How can I be more accountable for the salespeople of, uh, delivering 00:00:47.933 --> 00:00:49.313 what they say they're gonna deliver? 00:00:49.883 --> 00:00:55.373 And so what that meant for me listening and, and kind of interpreting 00:00:55.373 --> 00:01:00.323 that is they didn't always trust that the people doing the work. 00:01:01.658 --> 00:01:07.358 Or whatever role they were, they were, um, describing, uh, that they were doing 00:01:07.358 --> 00:01:10.298 what they should be doing about that. 00:01:10.868 --> 00:01:17.258 Um, and so I always thought it was a strange question and didn't quite 00:01:17.258 --> 00:01:23.648 resonate with how I thought about leading people and moving teams and getting. 00:01:24.608 --> 00:01:26.768 Teams to be more productive. 00:01:27.458 --> 00:01:31.058 Uh, very rarely, if at all, use the word accountable. 00:01:31.748 --> 00:01:37.358 Um, and so that's what I wanna talk about today is what is accountability 00:01:38.588 --> 00:01:39.788 and what are we really after? 00:01:39.788 --> 00:01:44.228 What, when we say we wanna hold somebody accountable, what are we really after? 00:01:44.228 --> 00:01:45.458 What is our aim? 00:01:46.298 --> 00:01:49.298 And I would say that our aim is really about. 00:01:51.248 --> 00:01:57.248 Productivity or being efficient or getting things done, um, right. 00:01:57.248 --> 00:01:59.318 It's really mostly about execution. 00:02:00.068 --> 00:02:07.628 And so what does it mean to hold somebody to execute, right? 00:02:08.168 --> 00:02:13.478 Um, whether I'm delegating that meaning I have a team below me, 00:02:13.478 --> 00:02:19.148 or I'm responsible for, uh, let's call it a department or a group of. 00:02:19.508 --> 00:02:24.728 20 people, a hundred people below me, I'm not gonna be doing all of that work 00:02:24.728 --> 00:02:29.198 and I'm not executing all of that work, but I'm still held accountable for the 00:02:29.198 --> 00:02:31.718 outcomes of that team or that department. 00:02:32.348 --> 00:02:35.198 And really in the end, it's all about execution. 00:02:35.317 --> 00:02:38.018 And so how do we execute? 00:02:38.048 --> 00:02:40.178 That's the question, Paul. 00:02:40.298 --> 00:02:42.338 How can we get better at executing? 00:02:43.628 --> 00:02:47.977 And the distinction there, it's very subtle, but I think it's really 00:02:47.977 --> 00:02:55.207 important because the shift is how do we execute, meaning how, what is, 00:02:55.567 --> 00:03:02.887 if we think about demming, by what method, by when, by who that is. 00:03:02.917 --> 00:03:07.927 That is, those are some of the questions, uh, that will be asked 00:03:08.227 --> 00:03:10.357 in order to how to better execute. 00:03:11.167 --> 00:03:12.578 Well, what method are you using? 00:03:12.908 --> 00:03:14.708 What processes are in place? 00:03:14.947 --> 00:03:17.588 How are those processes working well with each other? 00:03:17.828 --> 00:03:20.317 How are they not working well with each other? 00:03:20.708 --> 00:03:21.787 Who's involved? 00:03:22.748 --> 00:03:24.398 What roles are in play? 00:03:24.847 --> 00:03:28.328 What's the timing between processes, between roles? 00:03:28.537 --> 00:03:35.828 What's the expectations between those timings and what is necessary, uh, for 00:03:35.828 --> 00:03:39.817 the information from one process to another, from a timing perspective, 00:03:40.088 --> 00:03:44.197 in order for those things to flow well, that is how you execute. 00:03:44.977 --> 00:03:50.498 Um, the other one, the original question is, how do I hold you accountable? 00:03:50.903 --> 00:03:57.952 How do I hold so and so accountable is a personal person question. 00:03:58.373 --> 00:04:00.952 Meaning how do I get Paul to buy in? 00:04:01.912 --> 00:04:05.813 How do I get Paul to actually do the work that I'm paying him for? 00:04:06.352 --> 00:04:06.593 Right? 00:04:06.742 --> 00:04:11.602 How do I get Paul to make sure that he's doing, um, everything 00:04:11.602 --> 00:04:14.753 that I've asked him to do because he's dropping a lot of things. 00:04:15.938 --> 00:04:16.148 Right. 00:04:16.447 --> 00:04:19.808 Those are, those are two different problems and they're actually 00:04:19.808 --> 00:04:25.478 two different mindsets on how you solve the aim, which is efficiency. 00:04:25.957 --> 00:04:28.298 It's, uh, being productive. 00:04:28.478 --> 00:04:30.308 It's executing. 00:04:30.488 --> 00:04:34.598 And so if, if you start with the accountability, if you start with 00:04:34.598 --> 00:04:36.818 the person, how do I fix Paul? 00:04:36.998 --> 00:04:39.008 How do I get Paul more motivated? 00:04:40.478 --> 00:04:41.618 Paul's not motivated. 00:04:41.798 --> 00:04:42.428 How do you know that? 00:04:42.428 --> 00:04:43.657 How do you know Paul's not motivated? 00:04:44.228 --> 00:04:44.467 Well. 00:04:44.828 --> 00:04:47.857 I don't think he's very accountable for the things that I tell him to do. 00:04:48.128 --> 00:04:48.397 Hmm. 00:04:48.547 --> 00:04:49.237 Interesting. 00:04:49.568 --> 00:04:49.927 Right? 00:04:50.167 --> 00:04:51.787 That's an interesting observation. 00:04:52.777 --> 00:05:00.367 So, uh, the point of the conversation here is shift your mindset to process 00:05:00.427 --> 00:05:09.397 over people and you will get closer to your aim, which is executing, which 00:05:09.397 --> 00:05:13.297 is productivity, which is outcomes. 00:05:14.648 --> 00:05:19.778 And with those outcomes we can get to places where we start to learn. 00:05:20.438 --> 00:05:24.758 And so this is the other, the other part of the accountability part is, uh, 00:05:24.818 --> 00:05:31.178 from my perspective, interacting with you, the owner, you're saying, I want 00:05:31.778 --> 00:05:34.263 to better hold so and so accountable. 00:05:35.168 --> 00:05:40.868 Okay, so now maybe I will get some better understanding of what that means from you. 00:05:41.108 --> 00:05:45.758 And ultimately, I would say 10 times outta 10, that means execution. 00:05:46.238 --> 00:05:49.538 So what is it that you want to be executing on? 00:05:49.538 --> 00:05:51.638 What are those outcomes that you're looking for? 00:05:51.728 --> 00:05:55.548 And then I can go and talk with so and so, whoever that is. 00:05:56.738 --> 00:06:04.478 And what I will find 10 times outta 10 is that, uh, from their perspective, they're 00:06:04.658 --> 00:06:06.878 being pulled in multiple directions. 00:06:07.147 --> 00:06:12.397 The owner has actually told them to go do this thing, and then it doesn't take, 00:06:12.938 --> 00:06:18.368 uh, 24 hours or less that the owner has told them to go do this other thing. 00:06:18.878 --> 00:06:22.778 And, uh, and then before you know it, but before the week is even 00:06:22.778 --> 00:06:24.998 over, the owner has tampered. 00:06:25.748 --> 00:06:31.777 With the work, the execution of that particular person multiple times. 00:06:32.048 --> 00:06:36.337 And so that person is being pulled in multiple directions, doesn't quite 00:06:36.337 --> 00:06:40.657 understand the different priorities given to him by the owner and 00:06:40.657 --> 00:06:43.147 therefore is not very accountable. 00:06:43.777 --> 00:06:44.078 Right. 00:06:44.467 --> 00:06:47.318 And uh, so then the other part of it too is on. 00:06:48.353 --> 00:06:53.243 From the, um, from the, let's just call 'em the executive's perspective, dealing 00:06:53.243 --> 00:07:02.273 with the owner, is there aren't any, um, clear expectations on, um, how things 00:07:02.273 --> 00:07:04.283 should work, how things should operate. 00:07:04.463 --> 00:07:05.963 It's just go do it. 00:07:06.503 --> 00:07:12.233 And so what happens is, um, I may be a good ex executor, but. 00:07:12.878 --> 00:07:19.298 I may be inconsistent in executing because of the dynamic of, say, our 00:07:19.298 --> 00:07:25.988 customers have high variation or the dynamic of how we deliver or maybe just 00:07:25.988 --> 00:07:28.058 the dynamic of our industry in general. 00:07:28.448 --> 00:07:32.438 Um, and so what the owner is observing is that Paul's just 00:07:32.438 --> 00:07:33.938 not very good at executing. 00:07:34.298 --> 00:07:35.378 He's not accountable. 00:07:35.978 --> 00:07:41.713 And what I would say is that Paul, as the executive is not very consistent. 00:07:42.968 --> 00:07:48.548 In his execution because of the variation of everything that I just described. 00:07:48.638 --> 00:07:51.818 And so therefore, that is a process issue. 00:07:51.998 --> 00:07:56.108 It's not a paw issue, it's not a person issue, it's a process issue 00:07:57.068 --> 00:07:59.618 anyway, so that is where you start. 00:08:00.128 --> 00:08:05.078 If you're, if any, if this leaks out of your mouth, how do I 00:08:05.078 --> 00:08:09.368 hold somebody accountable, then uh, you should stop, reflect. 00:08:10.193 --> 00:08:11.693 Why am I asking this? 00:08:11.842 --> 00:08:17.092 And then ask it a different way, which is, how do we get better execution? 00:08:17.152 --> 00:08:22.552 And I guarantee you, you will end up with a different outcome, right? 00:08:22.672 --> 00:08:26.633 I'm not talking about the execution outcome, I'm talking about the interaction 00:08:26.873 --> 00:08:29.302 you will have with that other executive. 00:08:29.873 --> 00:08:34.913 The interaction that you will have on how can we better execute 00:08:35.183 --> 00:08:39.117 will be way different than I need to hold you accountable. 00:08:40.733 --> 00:08:41.063 Alright. 00:08:41.273 --> 00:08:48.533 One other topic on this too is, um, when we, when we go into how do we execute 00:08:48.953 --> 00:08:54.533 and the executive is now thinking, excuse me, the executive is now thinking about 00:08:54.563 --> 00:09:01.193 processes over the people and trying to get more consistent in his work, meaning. 00:09:01.928 --> 00:09:06.068 In order to do that, I have to come up with guidelines about how we do our 00:09:06.068 --> 00:09:11.738 work, how I do my work, how my team executes, how we deliver, how my sales 00:09:11.738 --> 00:09:14.048 team goes out and finds new prospects. 00:09:14.378 --> 00:09:17.888 Now we need to be more consistent with how that occurs. 00:09:18.248 --> 00:09:22.838 That doesn't mean we have to be more rigid processes, not rigidity. 00:09:23.258 --> 00:09:27.638 Process is consistency and so that I can be more predictable. 00:09:27.953 --> 00:09:29.273 In the outcomes, right? 00:09:29.273 --> 00:09:32.693 If I'm more consistent, then I can better predict the outcomes 00:09:32.933 --> 00:09:34.883 of whatever process that is. 00:09:35.033 --> 00:09:42.443 And so when I'm doing that, I have to be willing to experiment. 00:09:43.103 --> 00:09:46.913 And I know we've talked about this a million times about the word experiment, 00:09:47.213 --> 00:09:50.513 but, and how scary that can be. 00:09:51.233 --> 00:09:54.623 Um, but it's meant to be a way of learning. 00:09:55.373 --> 00:09:58.373 So that we can find the optimal process. 00:09:59.453 --> 00:10:08.303 So if I am to take an idea and write down, um, I could be even, uh, an expert, right? 00:10:08.303 --> 00:10:13.793 I've done lots of sales processes and I can write that down and I can say, I 00:10:13.793 --> 00:10:17.993 give you that piece of paper and say, here you go, execute on this process. 00:10:18.533 --> 00:10:22.613 Now that's probably, um, 50%. 00:10:23.558 --> 00:10:28.688 Maybe 80% of the way there, just based on my experience and my 00:10:28.688 --> 00:10:30.098 knowledge about how things go. 00:10:30.518 --> 00:10:38.168 But it's not gonna be 100% there because you and your team and your business 00:10:38.228 --> 00:10:39.788 and your customers are different. 00:10:40.388 --> 00:10:46.598 And so you have to take that process and then you have to go execute 00:10:46.598 --> 00:10:50.348 it, but then you also have to be willing to experiment with it. 00:10:51.188 --> 00:10:56.618 Says, Hey, we're going to approach our customers with this messaging on 00:10:56.618 --> 00:10:58.598 this timeframe through this channel. 00:10:59.558 --> 00:11:05.618 Um, we're gonna offer at this price, uh, during this timeframe and be 00:11:05.618 --> 00:11:08.978 willing to do that so that, because what happens when you do that, you 00:11:08.978 --> 00:11:12.278 learn and the customer will not. 00:11:12.803 --> 00:11:18.263 Buy your product at that price point will not offer, um, an opportunity to 00:11:18.323 --> 00:11:24.653 extend the service beyond the quarter or beyond the year or beyond the month. 00:11:25.073 --> 00:11:25.433 Right? 00:11:25.793 --> 00:11:26.963 And so what does that do? 00:11:26.963 --> 00:11:28.103 That's not a failure. 00:11:28.403 --> 00:11:31.703 That is an opportunity for us to ask questions on why. 00:11:32.468 --> 00:11:34.358 And gather feedback. 00:11:34.358 --> 00:11:39.368 And then for us to be able to adjust either our, the way we sell, the way 00:11:39.368 --> 00:11:44.018 we message either our channels or the way we deliver or our product, right? 00:11:44.258 --> 00:11:50.678 And so you can see that in order for us to solve the problem of being accountable, 00:11:51.698 --> 00:11:54.728 we have to ask how are we executing? 00:11:54.848 --> 00:11:59.018 And then when we get into the execution, it's not a one and 00:11:59.018 --> 00:12:00.218 done thing and it never will be. 00:12:00.803 --> 00:12:05.183 Even when I figure it out, it's always gonna change because there's always chance 00:12:05.183 --> 00:12:07.763 to, um, opportunity for improvement. 00:12:08.453 --> 00:12:12.113 That's only if everything stays static around me, and we know that 00:12:12.113 --> 00:12:14.723 that's not true and it's impossible. 00:12:15.173 --> 00:12:17.008 So even if I get to optimal. 00:12:18.338 --> 00:12:23.198 Um, I know that the, my customers are gonna change, the economy's gonna change. 00:12:23.528 --> 00:12:27.788 My industry is going to change, and so therefore, I'm constantly 00:12:28.298 --> 00:12:35.678 experimenting and adjusting and finding optimal within my execution. 00:12:36.698 --> 00:12:42.218 That my friends, is how you hold somebody accountable.