Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey!
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited because today we get to expand our
pod friends group with a first time guest, whether she's spreading into
quotes on Insta infectious excitement on our podcast or becoming the
guardian of spoilers on Twitter.
We're glad Ellie from oh, shoot podcast is joining us.
Welcome Ellie.
Thank you
Ellie: so much for having me.
I'm so excited.
Yeah.
How's it going?
Is it going fantastic?
How's it going with both
Jude: vio?
You know what?
This is usually.
The highlight of my day on recording days.
I love recording.
It's it's awesome to do this.
I know
Trey: you scared me for a second because you prefaced it by
saying usually I was like, oh,
Jude: you know what?
I got, you gotta leave that little bit of room.
You never know what it's going to happen on a Thursday.
I might win the lottery, you know,
Trey: excellent points.
Well, you know, we are very new to your podcast alley, but Jude
and I have been enjoying it.
And we definitely wanted to reach out to you and get to work together,
especially during this Hawkeye season.
But another thing we wanted to do is also spotlight your podcast here at the top.
So I was wondering if you could walk us through the origin of oh, shoot podcast
as well as the origin of the name itself.
Ellie: Yeah, totally.
Well, I honestly, I remember this day perfectly where I was like, oh
my God, I should start a podcast.
I was in the car with my sister.
We were coming back from her dad's place.
And I was just like, thinking about the fact that I love movies and that
I literally spend my days watching interviews and just like videos with
like all of these actors I love.
And just like watching movies that I love over and over again.
And then talking to my friends about these movies and these
like random bits of knowledge.
And I know my friends were sick of it.
Trey: I know
Ellie: some of them were like, oh my God, like, stop talking to us about this movie.
Like I get it.
You love it.
Okay.
So.
What if I started a podcast?
Oh, a way for me to talk about all of these movies that I love and, you
know, put it out for other people who also like the same movies to listen
and just kind of share that passion.
So I sent a Snapchat to a bunch of my friends and I was
like, should I start a podcast?
And they all said, yes.
So I was like, okay, cool.
I got the validation.
I'm not crazy.
All right.
Let's and then literally I got back home, pulled on my laptop and started
researching and gathering all this information on how to start a podcast.
So that was like the true start of it.
It was just literally neat being in the car and being like, oh my
God, Don't shut up about movies.
And then the problem did come with the name though, because I am so
indecisive and I was like, you want it to be something interesting and
something unique and, you know, hopefully something that hasn't been
taken by another podcast or whatever.
And then I was working on making just a big old list of podcasts names.
And I remember as a joke, I was like, oh, it'd be so funny.
If it was something like, oh shoot.
And then when I was like talking to my friends about it, cause
I was like, oh look, what'd you guys think like, if you guys were
listening, what stands out to you?
And they were all like, oh shoot, oh, shoot like that.
Like, I love that.
It's a play on words.
You know, you shoot a movie it's like, kind of perfect.
So I was like, you know what?
Screw it.
Let's do it.
Oh, shoot podcast.
Let's go.
And then he or she is, oh shit.
Great.
Sometimes, you know, sometimes I have doubts.
I'm like, is it a cute name that I'm like, no, I love it.
This is, this podcast is my baby.
I am very proud of it.
Jude: Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah.
It is a good name actually is a really good name.
Trey: It's one of those names that definitely stands out, but then
knowing the story on top of it just makes it that much more special.
So, yeah, that's really cool.
And I love the way that you talked about how.
You know, oh, I was annoying my friends with a movie talk, let me just put it on
the internet because it's the embodiment of something that I've kept with me since
I heard it at like an internet press conference, which it was like with the
internet, the question isn't is there an audience, but where's the audience.
So I feel like you've embodied that a lot with the podcast.
So that's really, really cool.
Jude: Yeah.
I wish I had a story like that on tray.
I, all I have is Monday taking my youngest daughter to soccer practice.
And true story.
This past Monday, she gets really mad at me, all of a
sudden, and I wasn't sure why.
And it was just like, why are you, are you upset?
And trying to, she was like, I don't want to hurt your feelings.
And this was a big, bold moment for her.
Like, she, she came up clean and honest and she was like, he talked too much.
And I was like, okay.
It's like, trust me.
It doesn't hurt my feelings.
It's okay.
Um, so yeah, so that's my version of it.
Oh
Trey: man.
That is lovely.
Ellie: I love that.
I love that.
Jude: You know what?
She's nine and comfortable enough to tell me that in I'm good.
Trey: Well, you know, something else that stood out to me about your podcast
is that even though you have started with the MCU, I think you've made it
pretty clear that you're not going to be strictly MCU movies on the podcast.
What, uh, what are your plans for after you've covered the MCU movies?
Ellie: Um, well, I have a big old, massive document full of movies.
I love and want to talk about, which is it's actually really funny because
originally I wasn't going to start with Marvel movies and I don't even remember
my thought process going into it.
I think it was because, you know, with 2021, we were starting to get
Marvel productions again, and we were getting phased for movies and TV shows.
And that got me excited.
And I was like, you know what, like, why not kind of start off with the
movies I know and love so much.
Like it's a good place to kind of lay down the framework and I
can talk about like the recent stuff that's coming out as well.
And it's just hilarious because a lot of people look at the podcast and
they're like, oh, it's a Marvel podcast.
And I'm like, Not really.
I'm like sort of, kind of a Marvel podcast, but it's temporary, but no,
like I have such big list of movies that I've loved throughout the years.
And like, I also really love Harry Potter.
Like that's been a franchise that has been a massive, massive part of my life for so
many, literally ever since I was a kid.
So it was like, I need to give some love to like, those like that part of my nerd,
you know, quote unquote, like nerdiness and I love like Christopher Nolan films.
I'm like, got to give him some credit.
Like, it's just funny that I definitely do seem like a marble podcast, but yeah, no.
Have a lot of plans for movies to talk about that are kind of outside of Marvel.
And that's not to say I'm going to stop talking about Marvel productions either.
Because again, like Marvel films have been such a big part of my life too.
So it's like definitely going to circle back.
But when the new year comes, it's going to be less and less Marvel and
more of kind of just other films that I've loved ever since I was a kid.
Jude: Yeah.
I'm excited to see you here to hear your thoughts and the
tackle, the Harry Potter series.
Cause I don't have a lot of thoughts because I never think about it
to the podcast I listened to.
I don't think I've come across a Harry Potter.
One that I've listened to.
Ellie: There's a couple, the ones that I've listened to kind of go
more into lore or kind of speak on the books more than anything.
And which of course like getting, you know, got, got to circle
back to the source material.
I know when I get to the movies, it's definitely going to be talking about the
differences and cause one of my favorite things about Harry Potter is isn't so much
the movies or the books, books itself.
It's what the fans have done with the material and the way
fans have built upon the world.
Like, that's my favorite aspect of it.
And I'm like, definitely gonna have that almost be at the core of those
episodes, like talking about what fans have done with all like this
entire world that we've been given.
Jude: Yeah.
That's that sounds really
Trey: interesting.
Yeah.
It seems like the Harry Potter franchise.
And maybe I'm just kind of speaking out of nowhere here, but it feels like
the Harry Potter franchise missed the boat on podcasts being devoted to them.
So to see you circle back to it, with that lens of the community
has been built around, it seems like a really interesting idea and
I'm looking forward to it as well.
Ellie: Um, I know I'm, I'm like saying as if I'm not the person
doing it, I'm like I'm excited to connect back with that world.
It's always exciting.
Trey: Well, you know, speaking of connecting to a world, uh, shifting
gears to the Marvel side of things, what is your connection to the MCU?
What got you into Euro talking about these films as much as you do?
Ellie: That's a good question.
Similar to Harry Potter.
I'd say the movies have just been a big part of my life since I was a kid, you
know, like I remember watching iron man when I was a kid watching Spider-Man
watch, like the Raimi movies were such a big part of my life when I was a kid
too, you know, they were my favorite movies when they were coming out.
Like, I still remember going to the theater to see the second and
third one, cause I was too young to see the first one in theaters.
You know, it was a little too spooky,
but like, I feel like when it comes to Marvel, it's just been over the years.
I've just fallen in love just more and more.
And I feel like it wasn't until maybe around 20 17, 20 18, where, well, I don't
want to say like obsessed, but like.
Love for it was starting to reach like that maximum level.
Like I B started becoming so excited each year, you know, getting tickets
for opening weekend opening night, like really working towards that.
And then I'd say over the course of, you know, 2020, and like 20, 21, you
know, middle of a pandemic, I'm like, I have nothing better to do with my life.
Really immerse myself in those world.
And I just, while watching the movies, I would just start thinking really
deeply into the characters and their experiences and what they started, like
going through, you know, looking at where they started in the very beginning.
So for example, like Tony, Stark's starting like 2008 in iron man,
how he was in that movie and how we were introduced to him and
then comparing him to no end game.
Looking at his growth, looking at how he's evolved.
And that just became so interesting for me.
And like, that's what I usually like thinking about when it comes to the Marvel
movies is looking at the characters, looking at their relationships with each
other and looking at how they've changed over the years and how some of them
are continuing to evolve and, you know, find out new things about themselves
and the world that they're a part of.
So I feel like it's because of me really immersing myself into the world
that made me fall in love with it even
Jude: more.
Yeah.
So if you are going to introduce the MCU to someone who's never seen it.
What's what's the on-ramp what, what movie do you give them first?
Ellie: Hm.
So, Ooh.
That's such a good question.
Like I almost.
Like want to say, go classic with like the Avengers, because that's the first
time where we get our original six, you know, that's a first, I feel like
it was that movie that got me like really excited for what was to come
because, you know, at the end of that movie, we start getting the clue that
Santos is going to be big villain.
Like it's that movie is the start of what everything is going to have that
domino effect and what all the little puzzle pieces are coming together for.
So I feel like I would want to start with the Avengers, but then after that,
I'm like, I feel like I would just want to show them my favorite one.
So I am obsessed.
Like my FA I say, my friends are sick of me talking about like Marvel stuff.
This is.
They're most done with when it comes to me, it's captain
America, the winter soldier.
I've seen that movie so many times this year that my friend, cause I
used my friend's Disney plus account, you know, like shout out to her,
but she wasn't serious about this.
Okay.
She w this is like a complete joke, even though it did scare me for a hot second
earlier this year, I think I was watching the movie, like the third day in a row.
It was like, she was like, if you keep watching this movie, I'm gonna like,
revoke your access to this account.
She was like, you're done.
You're done.
I'm like, I feel like that's what I would also have to do is like, you know,
show the ones that I love, because I'm like, this is how I feel about movies.
If someone is showing me a movie that they love, they get super excited about that's
going to get me excited about the movie.
I'd want to share that aspect and that passion to be like,
here's one of my favorites.
I hope you like it.
And he'll like, here's how it's going to fit in how here's it's,
you know, the benefit and the pro of it within the universe.
Jude: That's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
Trey: And it makes a lot of sense too.
Cause like calling back to the intro, you know, the infectious
excitement, I think is one of the things that stood out of your podcast.
So to hear that at the core of what you would show to people is totally
in line with what you do in your.
Thank you.
And of course, if you're listening to this and you're not familiar with
already, you should definitely be following Ellie on Twitter, Instagram
and Tik TOK at oh shoot podcast, as well as downloading and subscribing oh,
shoot podcast on most podcast players.
But, uh, yeah, if you downloaded this episode, you know, we're gonna be
talking about season one, episode, three of Hawkeye and titled echoes.
And the way we're going to do this is we're going to have some pre
spoiler thoughts, which is a chance for us to talk about the episode
without getting into spoilers before jumping in to the spoiler zone.
So before we get there, Ellie, do you have any pre spoiler thoughts for this episode?
Ellie: I love this episode so much.
Aye.
Okay.
Obviously, you know, we got a few more episodes to gout, but I feel like this
episode is going to be the standout.
One of what we're going to get.
I mean, Maybe we'll get some shocking moments going into the rest of the season,
but this was such an amazing episode.
One of my absolute favorites of all the shows that we've gotten.
So.
Jude: Yes, I actually, Trey, you should go next because you
said, I think very similar.
Yeah, I'll go
Trey: ahead and cut in line here.
And, uh, we, we always share our preschooler thoughts
on Twitter and Instagram.
So I'm just going to read this verbatim and it says, well, executed
simplicity makes this episode a strong contender for one of the better
episodes of the Disney plus era so far.
So Ellie, I wholeheartedly agree about what you said of this
being such a great episode.
And it was like I had to stop myself after watching it get from just
immediately proclaiming it the best.
Uh, that was definitely, that would have been reactionary and recency
bias, but it is, it is hard to top the way this episode made me feel.
Uh, and it makes me want to go back and reevaluate all the
Disney plus episodes so far.
Ellie: I know I'm due for a rewatch anyway.
Jude: Well, it's funny something you said.
Um, Ellie, something you said is similar to what my first thought was.
It was like, we're halfway done.
And I want eight, like, like give me two more, you know, and it was the
thing I came out of this episode is like, uh, there's only three more.
Do we need four more or five more?
Um, I hope there's a season two also, when I think what I found really interesting
is this episode, and I was telling Trey this off pod earlier today that.
It's sometimes hard for me to separate.
So like, I try to hate my first watch.
I end up watching at least twice before a record.
And my first watch is for me just to watch it, you know, and try to do that.
And I catch myself already thinking about the podcast, this episode.
I was able to, just to sink in outside of like the dog, our dog making me like bark
and jump on normy and making me pause it, like I just was able to sink in and just
enjoy it and not think about the podcast or anything, which was really cool.
Cause you know, a lot of other episodes, if I don't get sunk in to that, to that
degree, I'm start thinking about the podcast, but this really sucked me in.
It was great.
Trey: I think that's a good summary of our pre spoiler thoughts.
So, uh, like we said, you're going to hear an audio cure and on
the other side, there'll be fair game for all spoilers in the MCU.
So we'll see you on the other side.
Um,
And we're back.
So the way we're going to handle this is we're going to break it
down into the most important topics.
And the first one we're going to start with is Maya Lopez.
This one's going to focus on the beginning origin scene of Maya as a younger child
and dealing with everything in regards to the inability to hear and how that
pertains in the classroom, as well as some of the later scenes where we see an older
Maya dealing with tracing down Ronan.
So Ellie, if we could start with you, where would you like
to start within this section?
Ellie: Oh, man, I guess I'll start with the fact that I, I cried a little,
Jude: um,
Ellie: I love when our Disney plus shows, give us it looking emotional beginning,
you know, One of my other favorites was with like Falcon in the winter soldier.
And we had that episode start with like Bucky and Wakanda finally, like healing
from all the trauma that came with, you know, being the winter soldier and having
like finally being able to let go of that.
I love those like really emotional, deep opening.
So I love that they started this episode with showing Maya as a child
and kind of showing how she is in a classroom and then showing her
with her father, oh my goodness.
Like that entire scene with her talking with her dad that got me so emotional
and then don't even get me started when they started talking about dragons.
I was like, oh, only if you knew only if you knew they are very much real.
And I just, I loved it.
I loved kind of.
Getting that look into her and her younger years and getting that bit of
that history because of course it plays so much into who she becomes later in life.
So I, I really enjoyed that kind of introduction to our character.
Jude: Yeah, no, I, my first note is I love the use of flashbacks.
Um, cause this is one of those things that like sometimes flashbacks they're
used, but they're not really used.
Well, and you mentioned the Falcon, the winter soldier, the use of
flashback, they used the flashback here was just so done so well.
And I liked how I like how, what the directors did here in terms of like
teaching us, like through Hawkeye and that first episode at the musical, what
it was like to experience having this hearing aid turned off to where it was
very quickly, easily picked up like, oh, like, I like your use of sound here.
To, to make me or the audience feel are trying to experience maybe,
uh, what Maya was experiencing.
I just, I just, it really put me in the scene.
Trey: Yeah.
You talk about it being educational in the show's part and how
it informs these characters.
The thing that I think this show is excelling at is conveying
how characters feel through the use of sound or lack thereof.
And like the thing that stood out to me about Maya is you already learned that
she's such an observant character and how she's able to use that to her advantage.
As far as learning goes, as you know, the teacher was surprised that she
was able to fill out her workbook and.
They the fact that they did that scene before we get to that emotional scene
with her father, where he tells her, like, you can learn to jump between both worlds
by watching it is backing up the claim of what she's taught and you can see how
that's just instilled in her character.
And it's from those first two scenes, like it's so economical and wonderfully done.
And yeah, like they, they are showing the type of character.
Maya is and will be in the future when we get to the present.
And it's just all around.
Well done.
Jude: And Ellie, I love that you brought up the, the shadow
puppets with the dragons.
It was heartbreaking when she was asking about going to
the, the school for the deaf.
And he's basically saying you can't.
And then I see that interaction with her at her, you know,
martial arts lesson that, that.
That the father daughter had.
And it makes sense, like, cause you wonder sometimes like it's easy in shows.
We've mentioned Harry Potter, you know, and earlier, and it's
easily to have that very binary.
You're obviously the bad, you're obviously good.
Now we will fight.
Um, but, but to get that glimpse of like, yeah, I could see someone getting
involved in the things he was involved in.
Cause you just want what's best for your kid, you know?
Um, and, and it is heartbreaking, you know, to see that backstory.
Um, and you feel for them.
Ellie: I, yeah, no, I definitely agree.
And what I really appreciate about, about it as well is that it creates
those layers and it just allows them to be much more of a well rounded character
or, you know, of course there's like a bit of that setup for her to be.
Like somewhat of a villain in this case.
And Marvel unfortunately has a long history of not
having well-rounded villains.
They usually fall very, very flat.
And it's only in recent years where they've actually been fortunate
enough to get that development and where you get that understanding
of that history of a character.
So I really love that.
They're giving you a lot more history into who she is and
kind of where she came from.
Trey: Yeah.
I liked that you brought that up about Marvel's track record when
it comes to villains because it has gotten better in recent years.
And the thing I think that has gotten better is the nuance at
which they give these villains.
So again, going back to what you also said, Jude, about how you can fall
into the trap of this person bad.
This person's good.
The thing that I love so much about how they've tied.
Ronan to the origin of Maya just makes this such a narratively rich drama to
stem from because on paper, Clint is our protagonist and Maya is our antagonist.
But knowing what Clint has done as Ronan starts to question, okay,
well, who can we morally root for?
Because Clint's also done some pretty terrible things as evidence by what
has happened to Maya and her father.
So there's nuances into this.
Isn't just, you know, black and white, there are a lot of
wounds here that have to heal.
And again, what a great way to open up this episode.
Oh
Jude: yeah.
Imagine this show completely from Maya's perspective.
Right?
And so we get that scene where.
Ronan is doing is Ronan thing.
Uh, or at that point, from her perspective, Rodin's
doing the road in thing.
We don't know who it is and, but we follow her whole life through training
and she tracks down Barton and then we find out it's Barton, like she's a clearly
a protagonist that you would root for.
Right?
Like that's a, that's a show we would watch.
Um, and, and so that's, yeah, it's, it's really going to be interesting to see.
And my recognized Barton, like, what are you doing here?
You're a Clinton Barton.
Ellie: Yeah.
I mean, that's the thing with Clinton.
Like everyone knows who he is.
Like, he he's an Avenger.
Everyone now look across the world, like sees him and sees that hero.
You know, they'll remember calling back to 2012 when the Avengers saved New York,
there's going to be all of these like little moments that people think of.
And they know him and it's like, I'm in the first episode when, um, he, and he was
with his family eating in the restaurant and he didn't have to pay for the meal
and people know exactly who he is.
And they view him in such a positive light because they just feel him as a hero.
They don't know like his dark, that dark spot in his life during the
Blyth, when he was being grown in.
Jude: You know what I know, we're, we're still kind of talking about my hair,
but you mentioned that dark spot in the hero isn't that they know him for.
Marvel has also put him in that weird space where he was going
after mafia that survived the blip.
I do wonder if the show's going to, again with only three episodes left,
it'd be hard to, to do they tread in that space where it's like, oh,
we find out it's Clint and Avenger.
But because you're an Avenger, we'll forgive you because you were going
after quote unquote bad people.
I don't, I don't think I have time to flesh that out, but, but what, what
you were just mentioning about how recognizable he is as a hero would society
public, you know, in this world, be that forgiving because he's an Avenger.
It's
Ellie: an interesting question because it's difficult to consider how people
within the MCU, the average civilian is going to feel, because I mean, it's pretty
obvious how a lot of fans feel about it.
And a lot of fans aren't forgiving of his actions because when you look at
the people he's being, um, you know, going after, during the blip, they were
primarily people of color and that's old.
All that we saw on scene was the people he was going after were people of color.
So as fans, a lot, many of them.
They have a very hard time for giving that because it's like, kind of looking
at his mindset and why he thought that was a good idea or what, like we get it.
Okay.
You, of course, it's absolutely horrible.
You lost your family.
Of course.
Like that's absolutely devastating.
Especially during this, there's a lot of confusion that plays into it.
But when you look at it within the average civilian within the MCU, I
almost feel like they would be a little more forgiving because of what they've
been through themselves or simply just because they're like, well, he's a hero.
Yeah.
He must have thought it was the right thing to do.
Cause you know, why would he do anything bad?
He's an Avenger, even though there are some people within the MCU who have a
bit of animosity towards our heroes, as we saw in like age of Ultron,
Jude: Or on the urinal where it's just staying up.
She was right.
There's a lot of different,
Trey: well, you know, speaking of differing perspectives, uh, eventually
we get a little further into the, to the episode where we see there's a
disagreement between Maya and Kasi and specifically about Maya's continued
pursuit in, uh, searching for Ronan and how Kasi doesn't think it's a great idea.
Uh, what did you make of this infighting between the Meli?
I mean, I
Ellie: thought it was very interesting and.
Because I've been wondering about the relationship between Kasi and Maya
and cause I round with Washington, with my friend and we were like,
it kind of seems like there's like a bit of a relationship there.
Like, it seems like there's a bit of a deeper, you know, they're not
just like coworkers or something, you know, there's, there's a bond.
Trey: I think Katie even poisons it out.
It's like, did anybody else pick up the tension between the hot I
Ellie: picked it up too.
And it's interesting because I hope that moving forward in the rest of the
episodes, we get a little bit of a deeper look into what their relationship is
like and, you know, getting an idea of what they, what they mean to each other.
Cause I feel like that would actually add a lot of depth and you know,
calling back to that disagreement in episode three, I feel like.
Allow me as a viewer to kind of understand it a bit more, but I thought
it was very interesting because it's always, whenever in our movies, we
get that disagreement between two people who are on the same side.
It's always interesting because you never know where that disagreement
is going to go, because that could be a hard division that could push
them to completely separate and have someone like switch sides, for example.
So you never know where it's going to go.
Jude: Um, well, what I also find interesting, and this is outside of the
show, I guess we know Maya gets a spinoff.
That's true.
Very excited about it.
Yeah.
And so that might be part of the catalyst of how you get there with,
with the two of them, you know, like, cause I had that note, it
was like CA causes there for Maya.
Otherwise I don't think he would be there, you know?
And so I'm curious, uh, what is that, what is that draw?
Um, And for her, it seems, you know, right now, you know, it's heartbreaking
the what's, her backstory and all of that, but she's clearly also there.
They're really trying to show her as someone who's driven by that one moment
and looking for vengeance, um, under, I mean, understandably, like, I, I
think I would probably feel the same way if I, you know, had witnessed, uh,
parents and died in my arms in that way.
Right.
Um, you know, with the hooded ninja, you know, um, like I, I get it in that sense.
Um, so yeah, so like, like you have to take this character.
From there to something we'd want to watch as a spinoff.
And that might be the
catalyst
Trey: and, and, you know, I brought this up earlier, but I'll bring it again.
I, I like all that.
They're doing nuance wise with Maya and to have this infighting between Maya
and Kasi, it shows Maya's and FA is fallible because she is driven by revenge.
Understandably so, but we've seen how corrosive revenge can be.
And on the flip side, it humanizes Kasi as more than just an antagonist,
because he does have some sense of like, Hey, this isn't right.
We shouldn't be doing this as evidence of him stopping Maya from choking Kate.
So I love a good infighting between villains.
And I'm happy that we're getting that established here
with Maya in this episode.
Jude: Well, yeah, I mean, with, with Maya and Hawkeye or Barton, I guess right
there in that, in that exchange, you see.
Well, she points out Clint's downfall.
You rely on the technology, right?
And he makes a little joke about this, but she's talking about her
ability to like what she learned about being this awareness of surroundings.
And, and when you kind of see that when he loses his hearing aid and you get
these funny moments and stuff, but her weakness as well is not being able to
hear, you know, in that, will you see this scene where she has her interpreter?
We know she can read lips very well, but like she just loses focus and
grabs Kate by the neck, right by the throat, and then just kind of prompts.
Cause he's like, what are we doing later?
And, and, and not, and for me, it's showing like this isolation from that
is also put her almost in like this echo chamber of her own mind, you know, which,
which is like, once you get this emotion in this thought, You, you're not having
something to help you snap out of it.
Cause you can be so hyper-focused cause you've, you've had to be your whole life
and that's what you've been focused on.
Um, and so I feel like that, that, it's interesting to see how, how
much they're there, that there's a strength and weakness in both
of them through the same thing,
Trey: man, I really love the way you framed that.
That was a very insightful for what they're doing with both these characters.
Ellie: What was very good.
Very good.
Jude: And I do.
I'm going to bed.
Ellie: I'm done here.
Trey: Oh man.
I do have something I want to play off, but we need to establish
something before we get there.
So Ellie, I saw you hyping this up on Twitter.
So I'm going to throw to you who was that person at the karate.
Well, since
Ellie: Fez, AKA king
Trey: pen, are we all in agreement here?
Jude: We, I hope so.
Well, I dunno, you sent me a text earlier training about like, oh, I'm not sure.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so excited.
Like a friend of mine, Jonathan, who listens to the pod.
Sometimes he did one of the sweetest things I think anybody could do.
Like, he's one of those, I don't watch trailers, but he watched
the first Spider-Man trailer just to listen to our react thing.
And I was like, dude, that was, that was really cool of you.
That's truly
Trey: an honor.
Jude: Yeah.
But like knowing like his view on spoilers, he texted me last night.
He goes, is that who I think it is just like, you really
want me to answer that question
Ellie: and that's like the exact question you need to, I guess
it's like, are you sure you
Jude: want to know?
Trey: Which do you really want to go down this rabbit hole?
Yeah.
You know, I, I gave due to hard time, but yes, I, I wholeheartedly agree that
it is Wilson Fisk as well specifically.
I mean, all we have to go on is a chuckle and I hand, but if that
ain't the hand and chuckle Vincent D'Onofrio, I don't know what
Ellie: I was like.
Cause my friend and I were, we did a watch party, you know,
we stayed up until it released.
And I was like, okay, first of all, looked at black suit.
Look at him, look at how large of a man that is.
I'm like, and I'm like, here's the.
If it was just some random person, like if it was some random man named
Richard or something that happened to be her uncle or uncle figure who was
irrelevant, why not show his face?
Yeah.
It's hidden for a reason.
His true identity is being hidden for a reason.
So I'm like if he's anyone else, but Wilson Fisk, he has to be some other
significant character within mark.
But you can't can, like, as of right now, you cannot convince other otherwise.
Jude: Well, I'll tell you that the texts that Trey sent was, I don't
know, we were all convinced it was Reed Richards off the text, Monica Rambo.
Trey: So that was, I was just pulling dude's leg.
I didn't think it was going to make the podcast, but if I had any, any
slight doubt, it would be Disney plus is not afraid to swerve.
So, uh,
Ellie: no.
Okay.
We know that with our little fake Pietro
Trey: little fake Pietro.
I like that.
That's fantastic.
Oh man.
Well, I, again, I alluded to saying that I wanted to bring something
up, but we needed to set up this Wilson Fisk potential character.
First on top of that, Ellie, are you familiar with Daredevil?
Because that will shape how I phrase this.
It's
Ellie: funny.
I actually started watching it this year.
Oh, fantastic.
Trey: Yeah.
So I've only seen season one and four episodes of season two.
And I thinking I need to go ahead and finish that series
by the time this year is over.
Jude: You have until next Wednesday tray from, from the handshake, but, okay,
Trey: well, I'll say this.
Went from what we did on our podcast covering Daredevil.
The thing that we learned about Wilson Fisk is how emotionally driven he is.
Now, if Maya is supposed to be somebody who is heavily influenced
from Wilson Fisk, it makes all the sense in the world that she is quick
to that anger and that scene with Kate, where she starts to grappler.
Because if Wilson, Fisk is a influential figure, then yeah, it's,
it, it, it makes all the sense in the world that that would happen.
So I'm curious to track if this is Wilson Fisk, if that's where maybe she's picked
up on some of that on top of what you were saying, Jude, about the Kuyper fixation
in order to carry along and in Excel.
Jude: Yeah.
I'm so excited.
Okay.
I just, I just, okay.
And that's, and that's the other thing is like, I want to be very careful thinking
back to my experience at Wanda vision.
And, and be guarded about it being Fisk.
Cause we saw the hand in the water fish doesn't show up until the last episode,
you know, or maybe even an intact.
And, and I think one of my issues with Wanda vision while watching it was, I
got caught, I got so caught up in the speculation about who is this special
character and ended up just being white vision, you know, or, or sword vision.
And
you know, you have all of that, but it's just, it's like, I, I kind of lost sight
of like, oh, this is Wanda's story.
Let me and enjoy Wanda story.
So that's the only thing that I'm, that I'm like with my fingernails,
the ledge I'm clinging on to, to make sure I don't like lose sight of it.
Now this is, this is Hawkeye.
Ellie: I feel like if you know, we get that intro deduction or
re-introduction of Wilson fair.
I feel like it's, he's not going to play a massive role in this show,
but more so with echo, when we get that show on Disney, plus, I feel
like that's where he would be much more of a prominent character, but
I feel like if he, you know, come on Marvel, like give them, like, give
this to us, give us this one thing.
If we got kingpin and, you know, episode four, episode five, whatever it may
be, I feel like it's going to be just enough to be like, this character
is now Canon within the MCU here.
Here's how he fits in Maya's life and in this story, but it's not going to have
that much of an impact on Clinton, Kate, it's going to just, yeah, we're going to
get a nice little taste of it, but it's going to be like for Maya's TV show.
Jude: Yeah.
Kinda like, kinda like we got how we got king and low-key
Ellie: exactly.
We got a nice little taste like here, here he is.
Here he is.
Yep.
Just wait, just wait until, you know, like quantum mania, season two of
low key, like it's, he's going to be much more of a further developed
character in those productions.
Jude: You're getting me excited for all these other things.
Okay.
Ellie: This is what I do in my day to day.
I get yourself excited and then I get other people excited about these movies.
Trey: I, I think that's a pretty good wrap on the Maya section.
So we're going to go ahead and move into the next, most important topic,
which is entitled track and field.
So this is going to be the section that deals with the tracksuit mafia as they
have Clint and Kate hostage and takes us all the way through Clinton, Kate
escaping through that highway chasing.
So Jude, if we could start with you, where would you like
to start within this section?
Jude: Okay.
I'm going to start in a really weird spot, cause this is what it came out.
I feel so bad for imagine dragons just.
And I've talked about this on, on pod and train.
And I talk about this all the time off pod of like, of like, we want to
start with a positive and, but it's okay to be critique things because
it's, it's, it's from a place of love and from of these sayings and it's
okay if we don't enjoy everything.
But I remember reading the story about the lead singer of Madden dragons, talking
about his mental health because of the turn of like society and popular culture.
Like, oh, it wasn't hip or cool.
That's sort of my age hip.
Cool to like imagine, imagine dragons.
And so to make that part of a joke there.
Like that was an element of like, cause, cause we're supposed to see the
tracksuit guys, I think as incompetent.
Cause he even get like Maya's running them, but she has her own agenda.
Even get the feeling like I'm just gonna go out and say it Fisk who's
her boss is, has their own agenda and they just don't realize it.
And so like even for it to have a character and be
like, I like imagine dragons.
So it's like, we're not supposed to like that character anyway.
We're supposed to think they're idiots, you know?
So yeah.
I, it's a weird place to start, but I felt so bad for,
Trey: yeah.
I'm going to read my note and preface it.
We just talked about this in the meta episode.
Disney.
How are you not listening to being nice to match Kevin?
Ellie: Oh.
It's so funny.
I'm like adding this to the list of re list of topics.
I would like to discuss with Mr.
Kevin, because I always joke.
I'm like, I'm going to go like knock on this man's door and have a discussion
of how he's traumatized me over the years, add this to the list and be
like, Hey buddy, we got to have a chat.
Okay.
You got to have a friendly chat.
And also I will be taking a couple of your
Trey: hats.
Jude: He has plenty of hats.
He can, he can
Ellie: spare one.
We can spare at least two.
Okay.
Now I'm sure I've talked about this with my friends and like, you
know how people have like shoo.
He hasn't where they like pace really expensive shoes, sneakers, whatever they
meet, maybe I'm like, I wa I'm willing to bet some money that this man has a hot
wall where he has all of the like hats he's worn to the premiers over the years,
Trey: I call mine.
Ellie: You know what that is also another very appropriate, perfect use of a wall,
Trey: but no, you know, I was going to say last week I talked so much
about how, the way cause Kate and Clint are teaching each other, right?
Like Clinton is obviously hard shell.
He's not opening up.
Kate is showing them how to open up through the act of sincerity.
So I loved how Kate was sincerely listening to the tracksuit mafia.
Mafia's problems about wanting to go to the imagine dragons concert and his
girlfriend not wanting to take him.
I love it.
It is an example of that sincerity, but this is what I wanted to quote Jude.
This is straight from a notes, shame.
It had to come at the expense of imagine dragons.
And I think we are probably the only podcast that has this hangup, but
it's so funny that we have it at all.
Jude: I know, right?
Like we're the podcast.
We're going to change our name, the podcast that feels bad for imagine
dragons and like, sorry, like.
Ellie: Iron man.
Three is so underrated.
Jude: Oh yeah.
Ellie: Literally made a tick.
Talk about this, like two months ago, responding to another Cirque talk video.
It is so underrated.
It deserves so much more appreciation that it gets Mike.
My theory is that it, Ironman three only gets the hate because
of people who don't like Tony's.
That's my
Jude: theory, Nick, Sandy that's in case you don't know Nick, Sandy did
our theme song and I just use him as a reference when, instead of saying
Mike drop, I said, Nick, Sandy.
So that's why he keeps saying mixing.
Trey: I love that.
As if the immediate conference, when we started this wasn't enough proof
of how this is a good group of people.
You're like, we did a whole episode on iron man, three, where we ended,
we're either going to convert people or we're going to push people away because
we just talked for like two hours about how amazing Ironman three is.
It's in my top five.
Jude: Yeah.
Ellie: Wow.
You know what?
It's there?
It's not in my top five, but it's very, I like
Jude: to hear that she started backing off.
She was like, okay.
Okay.
Let's, let's, let's tap the brakes
Ellie: personally.
I respect the fact that it's in your top five, but I'm like, it is such
a great movie for Tony stark and it adds so many layers to his character
and just the way that he's developed.
Oh God, it's so good.
I think it might be one of my, my favorite iron man
Jude: movie.
Yeah.
And Trey's going to get a message from friend Daniel through
just like top five, really?
Trey.
Trey: Hey, I've put it out there.
I I'm sending that.
One's consistent.
Jude: I know it is.
Ellie: I'm curious what your number one is
Trey: it flips back and forth between winter soldier and end game.
Just because the I'm a huge captain America fan.
So winter soldier, obviously.
Yeah, but I definitely see that.
Yeah.
And then shrunk sheet number three.
Ellie: What an amazing movie.
Amazing.
That's number one for me right
Trey: now.
Well, you know, circling back to this episode, there's a moment that stood
out to me where Maya is asking about the specifics of Ronan and Clint tells
her that black widow killed Ronan.
So what did you think about that, Ellie?
Ellie: I thought it was very interesting and I would say like she did kind of
killed Ronan in a sense because she went searching for Clint, found him
and essentially, you know, was bringing him back home, allowing him to kind of
refocus and realize there's a chance we can get everyone back and kind of showing
him that, you know, the life that he's going down right now is not the path
to go on because she is no stranger to.
Going down really going into like the assassin path.
She's had that dark spot on her life with BMC before she is probably one
of the only individuals who can really understand kind of Clint and his mind
and where he is an end game before he comes back to the Avengers compound.
So I think I get it.
I think she did kill him because after that point Ronan was gone,
he never went back to that life.
He was able to refocus.
So I think that statement was appropriate.
Trey: Yeah.
It's one of those scenarios.
You didn't lie, but you didn't tell the truth.
And so I I'm G I like physically dead just spiritually, but, uh, no, I enjoyed it.
It was a great heads up play on Clint.
Cause I mean, he even admits it to Kate where he was like, I almost had
them disassociated the suit from you.
And then you popped in from the skylight.
So it's in line with him trying to throw the tracksuit mafia off Kate
and I like the clever use of him telling what happened to Ronan.
And, uh, yeah, I, I thought that was an interesting scene and, and
kudos on the creative team to both make it a heads up play and a pull
at heartstrings at the same time.
Jude: I don't, I don't think I agree with you, right.
Like I like, I, my, my note is black widow did kill Roden.
Like I don't think of it as.
Like, like, like the idea that there's a separation.
Um, okay.
Like, and I see what you're saying.
I agree with Ellie in the sense, what you're saying of she brought Clint
back, uh, for, from how lost he was.
And I, I think he really did feel that like that yes, Ronan is dead.
I'm able to leave that, you know?
Um, yeah.
Cause I mean, just as much as like trying to protect Kate or maybe even himself in
his darker side, uh, you know, that shadow side, what he's capable of, but it's also
like this, this unwanted resurrection, so to speak of, of this character that
he, that he thought was behind him.
Um, so that's what I'm saying.
Like, no, I think he, I think he really meant it.
Trey: I'm trying to process through it and I'm getting increasingly
aware of how silent I'm being.
But yeah, I think you bring up a good point of, it's not something he wanted.
Obviously he went to this character to stay dead.
And so I do think he believes it, but I guess I'm coming from, he's trying
to run away from this, but this is something he still has to wrestle with.
Like by the time this series is over, he has to come to terms
with what he did as Ronan.
And so it felt like a heads-up play as a punch, but I know it's not
something he's going to completely run away from, if that makes sense.
Ellie: Well, the thing is that he really can't run away from it.
Yeah.
It's something that needs to be addressed before the series is done because clearly.
It's still an issue.
You know, there are people looking for Ronan hit the things that he was
wearing, his weapons or still around.
So it's not something that he could just keep hidden and pretend
like it never happened because the impact was still there.
It's still in play.
Jude: I had a question that just came to mind, but I'm going to save it.
Okay.
Because I feel like I'd be jumping way ahead.
Okay.
I'm saying that out loud and I'm typing it down.
Yeah,
Ellie: please.
Don't forget.
Cause I'm really curious what this question
Trey: is.
Yeah.
We'll uh, we'll pull the pin on that.
So, you know, one thing I'm going to highlight a bounce Clint here, because
I mean, this whole episode is about.
Kate and Clint like solidifying their comradery and how they work together.
You know, we're still in the early stages of it.
So there's some push and pool, but there's one thing that I absolutely
loved here at the beginning is you see, Kate is starting to get shook
from everything that has happened.
She's she kind of goes into that moment where she doesn't know what to do.
And Clint is like antagonize her.
It's like, Hey, you take all that misplaced confidence
and you channel it right now.
Cause this is about to get serious.
And I it's, it shows.
There's some tough love between them on how he gets her to
get back into the fight mode.
And I thought that was, that was an endearing way to handle that
because there is some back and forth ribbing between the characters.
I am jumping ahead a little bit, but you see how she, uh, texts
Clint later on in the episode was like, Hey, it's a good thing.
They don't call you hockey.
Or so there's some, there's some teasing back and forth.
And this is one of the first examples of it.
I think from Clint to Kate,
Ellie: I really loved that moment between them because it kind of reminds
me of almost like me with my friends.
And if any of us have like any sort of like hesitations or being like
questioning, doing something it's like, Hey, I remember when you were
overly confident in this situation, like channel that energy into this.
So I really loved that moment because we've seen Kate.
Like she is a very confident person, especially when she
puts her mind towards her.
And towards a goal, she gets it done and it's like, I get it.
You're there.
You're a little scared of in this moment, but it's like channel your
energy a little bit because you know, you're with Clint and, you know,
you can get yourself out of this.
Jude: Well, and he had an amazing amount of trust in her to, you know, escape and
say, get ready for my, um, my signal.
Um, and you know, that trope is very typical, but.
For those characters.
He, Clinton had to have an amazing amount of trust that she was capable,
you know, cause he wasn't really close to her when he shot the arrow.
And so it wasn't like, Hey, I'm here to save you.
I'm your overconfidence.
And let's go, you know, uh, which was really cool.
And it also reminded me of age of Ultron and Wanda a little bit was like,
you're here and we're going to do this.
You know,
Ellie: that is a really good call back.
Actually.
I feel like with Clint, he almost like adopts people.
He's like, okay, like let's get into like dad mode.
I have faith in you.
You've got this.
Like you're stronger than you think.
And he gets that bit of, he like really brings in that support to
ensure that like they also know that they're very capable of their skills.
Jude: Yeah.
Trey: So, you know, we're still in this section of the track and field.
Uh, and I feel like one of the major thing that we've got left is the
amazing sequence of their escape, all the way to their, uh, subway entrance.
Um, our train entrance, I should say, I want to start here.
You know, it's very funny to me that so often Clint is the butt of the joke
because it's like, oh, he's just a guy with a bow and arrow, but because of
the grounded aspect of his weapon of choice and how much more down to earth
it is to see somebody be stabbed with arrows or shot with an arrow, it's
much more horrifying, I think, than any of the other super powers we've
seen because it's like easy to get swept up in the fantastical side of it.
But watching somebody be shot with an arrow and launch backward is brutal.
And I was not prepared to see that in action, especially on Disney plus.
Oh,
Jude: my
Ellie: gosh.
Right?
And the thing with like, Clint's arrows are you, you never know when it's going
to, cause it's not just a regular arrow.
It's not, it could, again, like we see his wide array of
arrows in during this sequence.
So it's like, okay, he shoots the arrow and it's like,
okay, what's going to happen.
Is there going to be an explosion?
Like, is it normal?
And I'm just going to get kind of stabbed by it is Pedy going to come out?
Is it going to feel, be filled with acid and you never know.
And that's what makes it fun as well.
Jude: You know what?
I you're mentioning that.
Cause I, in Avengers he had like this little dial thing
that would change the Arrowhead.
If you remember, like he would, he would, and it would kind
of rotate and attach arrows.
And it's just really impressive that he, just to me, I mean, just if I'm
immerse myself and this is real, like it's an, a quiver and you're
like, remember which one, when you're grabbing that fast, cause you grabbed
the wrong one in the right situation.
That's a problem.
Trey: Well, you know, while we're on the topic of these different
arrows or I should say Kate going through all these arrows, it's very
reminiscent of Peter when he's going through the training protocol and
learning one, all his suit can dear.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And like we established it last week.
We are really these last two episodes in a row, in a row.
We're seeing how comparable Kate Bishop and Peter Parker are.
And, you know, they're both these kids who are trying to lace up shoes
that are way too big for themselves, but they're doing it anyway.
And it's kind of admirable, I think, to see them trying in these,
these high stakes scenarios for the
Ellie: determination.
Yeah.
A lot of appreciation for it.
Yeah.
Trey: The question is not, is Kate skilled because we know she is eats the wisdom
that Clint's bringing, because it's not enough that she can make the shot.
You see where we're, Clint's like, Hey, take these acid arrows hit
the traffic lights and that's how they caused the destruction.
So through action, we're seeing how Clint is after being worn down, I
guess is finally teaching Kate how to be a better, you know, Hawkeye.
And so I love how the action is communicating this and this scene.
Jude: Well, it's interesting.
I thought of him as like black widow and Yulaina a little bit only, only
because like, well, you mentioned like the same thing with Spiderman where
she's like trying and not learning.
It's just, it just, she was super capable, but it didn't have, uh,
or, or Kate didn't have the flat.
That I kind of like Huck, I guys it poser.
He does that little sideways flip thing.
And the, and the I'm gonna throw the small jab right here.
Proper use of slow-mo when you, when you should set arrow.
And then he does the one where he.
He knelt down and looked at the ground and shot behind him.
Like you had time to turn around and still make that shot.
So poser, uh, when he was like, Kate's like, I'm just going to get the job done.
And that's, that's, that's what I found interesting about that.
Trey: One thing that I want to take away, because there's so much that
could be said about the sequence, but the whole point of it is that we're
seeing Kate and Clint work together.
This is finally the moment where they're learning that
they can be a compatible team.
And so one of the things that I like that they've done specifically with Clint's
broken earpiece is it's illustrating that struggle with the two of them in the
communication and what it metaphorically stands for of the gap between them.
So this could be, you know, sometimes the curtains are just blue talk, but if
Clint is supposed to be the discipline for Kate and Kate is supposed to be
the inspiration that Clint doesn't feel the fact that they can't hear
each other while they're learning to finally work together is just beautiful.
And it even becomes more beautiful to me when you start to see the ways that.
You know, Kate is being more mindful of the fact that Clint can't hear, because
he's like, Hey, how many are there?
And she says four and immediately starts to hold up four fingers.
Or they have that moment where they're like, oh, this would be easier for you.
We're facing the other way.
And so they're on the same page despite that gap between them.
And I just thought that was a wonderful depiction of that team forming.
Ellie: I have to say, I really like that thing.
Cause we got that clip.
They gave us that clip like beforehand and they were speaking to each other clearly.
But then in the episode we finally understood that are, you know,
Clint didn't have his earpiece.
Like he couldn't actually hear her.
So when she was speaking to him, we got those muted sounds and it
was like, oh my God, like it just added so much more to the scene.
And I was so happy that it wasn't the same one where they were very, just clearly
easily communicating with each other.
Well, we got, I think it was the week before.
Jude: Oh yeah.
That the Disney plus day.
Yeah.
We've got that whole sequence.
That's what I was.
I
Ellie: was like, I was trying to remember.
Jude: Yeah, she was so proud.
She's like, we're communicating like, you know, right now.
Not really, but didn't, but didn't in a way it was like, like you said, it
was confirmed on the, on the subway.
It's like who got to walk the dog?
Well, you know, you're right.
I
Ellie: was so funny the way that she just looked at him during that
scene, I was like, oh my goodness.
Trey: Well, you know, this is coming to me now, like Clint has already
established the overconfidence that Kate has and it's been on display.
She's a very capable and confident person.
So there's something special about the way she gets that confirmation by Clint saying
like, oh yeah, you are, you are a really great Archer, but he can't hear her.
So it's like, it doesn't get a hundred percent confirmed, but
she has that smile to herself of like, yeah, this was a good moment.
And it was, it's a victory lap for everything that just happened,
especially coming off of that scene where they use the teamwork for
the PIM arrow to finally get away.
So this whole, I don't know if this is going to make the cut, but Ella, you
mentioned how you could do an entire episode on just this chase sequence.
Um, I, I wholeheartedly agree
Ellie: so many different action sequences come to mind, like just
across the movies that we've gone.
And I'm like, you could just, just devote an hour to breaking down the ones seen.
Right.
Because there's just so much to look at because you know, usually you, you
have your protagonist, you have your antagonist, so it's like, you can speak on
what each of them individually are doing.
Then you can talk about what's going on in the background.
You can talk about what they're utilizing in the scene.
Like there's just so many layers to it.
It's difficult to just do an overview, like an overview.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, it's Trey.
What's interesting.
One of the things you were saying, honestly, my first point, I'm getting
a little ahead here onto the hero life.
Part of the outline with all that communication and the confidence
building up between the two of them.
It's interesting.
Cause like Kate's being successful here.
Right.
And she's experiencing that success and it's actually, and again, I'm
getting a little ahead to this, to this point, see you on the
outline, but she's experiencing the.
And like in her head, this is what it was, right.
This is what you do as a superhero, you go in this and you work together
as a team and you get out and you communicate and you're successful.
It's weird because it's like reaffirming what she imagines when, when Clint
knows like this isn't really what it is.
Trey: Well, you know what I, you bring up a great point.
Let's go ahead and move into the next, most important topics so that we can
go ahead and get into that fully.
And like you said, this is the hero life.
Uh, this section is going to be for us to discuss, uh, that diner scene where Clint
is trying to impart the wisdom of what it means to sacrifice, to do the good thing,
uh, as well as that very emotionally hard scene where Kate has to endure.
Uh, Clint's son for Clint, since he can not hear him.
So I want to cause you, you bring up a good point of Kate is having all
her wrong ideas of what this life is affirmed by the previous action sequence.
I want to make note that there is a moment where it does seem
like, okay, maybe the seed of her learning is starting to take place.
And that is again the scene where she has to interpret for Clint son.
Um, you know, there's so much talk about Kate being spoiled, rotten,
which Clint says so himself to the track suit mafia, whenever one was
complaining about her talking too much.
And you know, we've seen other instances of it where, you know,
we know she comes from privilege.
I don't know if it's pure malintent.
I think there is carelessness on her part and that's why.
She keeps finding this herself in situations where she's putting
people like Clint out, but we get to see her wrestle with her
consequences on the look on her face.
As she's seeing Hawkeye have to deal with not being able to hear his son.
And I thought Hailee Steinfeld did a really good job of conveying that
without actually saying anything outside of writing on the notepad.
Um, so, you know, we're three episodes in I'm sure her hero's
journey is going to be that humility that comes with the hero life.
Um, and I think this is an important scene to remember as we move forward.
And hopefully that lesson is learned.
Ellie: I agree.
Well, cause I mean, that's such a big thing when we get a young hero too.
There's so much learning that goes into it.
And especially when you take someone like Kate or even looking
at like Peter Parker, With the MCU.
They both have the significant characters in the significant individuals in
their life that they admire so much and they look up to and, but they
themselves, you know, they've lived, they're trying to live that hero life.
They're trying to hone in on the skills that they've been.
They are so fortunate to have and trying to figure out what to do with it.
But it all comes to the understanding of like what being a hero actually means.
So I love that when there's that focus on that learning aspect and also them
just seeing what their mentor like goes through and what their life is
like, because there's also that kind of reminder that, you know, they
don't live that different of a life.
Like they still live, you know, they have family, they have a normal day to day.
They wake up, you know, make some coffee, have some breakfast,
whatever, but they also just happen to be superheroes on this.
So I love where you get that bit of like normalcy and you get
that deeper look into what their
Jude: life is.
Yeah.
And I just, I just want to remind everybody that you've seen winter
soldier over and over, and you know, that superheroes do have breakfast.
I put coffee grounds in the garbage disposal.
They do all this.
Trey: Well, you know, do cause you, you, we went into this most important topic
because you were talking about the Mamie wrongful affirmation of Kate's idea.
You know, I, I think this dinner conversation is the perfect
follow-up for that chase sequence.
Because again, we now know that Kate is up to the challenge, we'd know Clint
respects her, but does Kate respect the responsibility and based on the way
Clint gives that heartfelt delivery of the things you lose following this life.
And Kate's answer being like, well, yeah, you get cool trick arrows and costumes.
We know she's not ready.
Sarah, what did you think about that
Jude: conversation?
Well, as you say, my note here on that conversation was like, you see Clinton
put his head down and I, and I did this specifically wrote it this way.
Specifically Clinton puts his head down because she isn't hearing him
and like there, and we've talked so much about this, this use of
sound through these characters to immerse us in these experiences.
And it's like, you have, don't have the struggle of hearing is
Maya or Clint, but you're, you're not hearing, you're not listening.
You're.
There was some debate as is 22 and 18, really the same or not.
Cause I was, I just, I paused for a second because as you say, you're 22 and
it was going, gonna sound so bad of like I'm talking down about 22 year olds.
And I do, you know, I did fall on the side of the, the 22 and 18 to the same thing.
And I asked my wife Hammond and she's like, well, depends.
What's what was your life experiences?
And all this other stuff.
I'm just, it was a yes or no question, what are you doing?
Ellie: But we're not trying to get that
Jude: deep, but it is like, like that was kind of that this conversation of like,
you're, you're not hearing, you're not, you're not listening, you know, you know,
so, so again, that use of sound comes up, which I, which for me, that's what I
took out of that, which I really liked.
Ellie: I think it, what it kind of reminded me of was in homecoming when
Tony has a conversation with Peter and, you know, he says like, if you're
like, if you're nothing without this.
Then you don't deserve it.
And it's kind of like that reminder and that push it's like you have
to be more than the technology.
You have to be more than the suit.
You have to hone in on what being hero actually means.
Because being a hero, you have to make a lot of like selfless choices.
Yeah.
There it's a very, very deep, so it's like she needs to get to that
point where she herself realizes what being a hero means for
Jude: herself.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm glad you brought that up and cause and homecoming rights Spiderman
lost the suit and had to do it without the stark tech, his own suit himself.
And my question on, on my notes here was what will Kate
have to lose to take this lie?
A lot, like she has it on this pedestal, what is she going to have to lose to take
this life off the pedestal and, and kind of realize what you're really asking for?
Um, cause you know, like the storytelling and the show, she's gonna have to
lose something to knock, to knock this, this romanticize here, a life
for you down and from what we have, I'm like, okay, what does she lose?
Like,
it's, it's, it's tough to tell because we haven't had seen her with enough of
a relationship yet with somebody that it's like, you know, like it's not
going to be an uncle Ben figure out.
I mean, well the only uncle Ben figured right now she has right now is Hawkeye.
So like, do we believe
like, I don't know, like, like Disney plus and Marvel willing to kill off Hawkeye.
Trey: How dare you.
Ellie: Oh my goodness.
I was thinking about
Jude: this earlier.
She has to lose something, right.
Trey: I'm just mad.
Jude: You know, her dad's already assuming, or dad's already dead.
I don't think they're going to, with three episodes left pool,
Ellie: there was no body.
Jude: So there was no body, the classic rule.
Exactly.
You know, she doesn't exactly get along with her mom and
let's see, like, I don't know.
Like, so yeah, so I'm, I'm really curious or what they're going to do with that.
Cause, cause that's what they've set up.
Like he clearly in the dialogue there sacrifices, you lose things forever.
Trey: Oh man.
Well, you know, there's one more thing that I want to zone in on, in this scene.
And, you know, we have a pretty pivotal moment where Clint
says I am not a role model.
And so I think this is important because for a brief moment, it really
does seem like he's warming up to this idea of taking Kate under his
wing because he, I mean, I don't think you give that heartfelt.
Speech about giving something up, unless you're really truly trying
to teach her how to do this.
And it's not until she reminds him about Ronan.
And she wrongly says like, oh, you're covering for him
when the truth is he is him.
But I think.
Hitting close enough to home that he starts to realize like,
no, I can't be this person.
I'm not a role model.
And it reminds me of in game where you can see how much he truly has lost, because
look at where he starts an end game.
He's with his family there at that picnic.
And he's teaching his daughter how to shoot the bow and arrow and
specifically calls her, Hey Hawkeye.
So the idea of passing on that legacy is something he's definitely thought
about, but because of what happened in endgame and what he did as Ronan, he
has completely lost that side of it.
So to even get the glimpse of him, maybe wanting to do that here with Kate and
take her under his wing, I think is showing a lot with very little about
where he's at in regards to his psyche.
So I'd like that moment a lot.
Jude: I, I want to say that his wife divorces him.
If he tries to hand down the mantle to his own kid,
like I'm imagining what's a honey, you know, I'm not going to be home and
neither is our daughter because she's out shooting bow and arrows and bad guys.
I mean, I wouldn't
Ellie: blame her.
I mean, she's seen what Clint has gone through and what
he's faced over the years.
So I'd be like, I mean, I would be like, yeah, no.
Yeah.
She's not going anywhere near that.
Yeah.
Jude: Now to get back to your point, like I think that going back to Asia, Ultron,
they've kind of set that up, right.
Like it go back.
Let's just, if you track Clint through age of Ultron, we find out he has the family
life and this is truly like his job.
He's good at his job.
He believes in it.
But then he goes home to his family.
You don't really see that with the others, even in age of Ultron, like he's talking
about, or not later in that later on, he's like, I'm thinking about tearing
down this wall to like, and, and build this craft room and stuff like that.
And then, and then we see in beginning of end game, that's taken away from him.
Yeah.
And then here, he's on this New York trip to try to gain that, to reestablish
his closeness and his relationship with his kids, just him and the kids.
So I do think you're right, right.
Like he has a sense of passing on the legacy, but there's such a strong
connection, you know, going all the way back to the opening scene of 2012 with
Kate and mom and dad of, of family that.
That I think that's what he's looking to pass on.
Right?
Like, like I think you're right.
He w he's wanting to pass this on.
Cause he's, it's like, I mean, all of us to some degree want to retire, right?
Like we, we don't want to do this forever.
When I say this, I'm not talking about the podcast.
I'm just talking.
Trey: That was private conversation.
Jude: But I mean, but like, you know, I mean, you want to reach this point
where, you know, you get older and you think about it and it's like, do I
really want to do what I'm doing forever?
You know, do I want to travel?
Do I want to do all these other things?
So, yeah, I think you're right.
Like he is.
And, and there's that element of like that darker side of Ronan,
he has lived the path that life can take you when it goes bad.
And in the end with that in mind, it's like, there's also an element of
like, I can't be a role model because I don't want somebody following this.
And to what extent can I in good conscience pass that
on to Kate or somebody.
You know, cause that's, again, something that you, you have to live with.
Ellie: Yeah.
And kind of like thinking about like the whole black role model situation
and, you know, taking into it's like dark moment where he was Ronin.
It makes cause honestly, throughout the episode, I was thinking about the
moment where he shares that with Kate and Mike, like wondering like what her
perception of him would be like, how she would feel like knowing the person
that like she looked up to for so many years ever since 2012 was Ronan.
And during the blip essentially went on a bit of a murder spree.
Like I, I'm very curious how she's going to process that and how, if,
how it, if her view of Clintwood.
Trey: Yeah, I, I thought we got so close to it.
This episode, when she started accusing him, like, it was so smooth
the way she transitioned from like, Hey, here's a cool costume idea
to, oh, what if you wore all black?
Like she did that on a dime.
And I thought she was about to put two and two together, but she came
so close without actually doing it.
Jude: Was that intentional?
The accusation?
Well, yeah.
Cause okay.
Cause so there's, there's two ways you can look at it, right?
There's there's efficient storytelling and I'm going to use the costume to kind of
placate fans and kind of nod to the fans.
Uh, like they're doing a Disney plus series of showing the ridiculousness
of, yeah, we can't do this.
Right.
Um, and we've seen it in one division, you know, and, and stuff of the actual comic
book accurate, except with cap Samuelsson.
Now it's comic book accurate and fantastic, but like,
so, so you have that moment.
But there was a weird, like even the camera, it goes from, from a way from
the shot, reverse shot over the shoulder to like straight on when she asks.
And so, so as clearly wanting to change and feeling of like tension when she asks
this and, and Barton's response, but it was like, up to that point, I had a hard
time, like, did she really, like, what clues did she have to put that together?
Or was that just, we only have six episodes and this is how
we make this moment happen.
Like, like that, that did run through my mind when that happened.
Cause it cause like, otherwise it's like, it's very specific of
you to me, like go from purple to all black and a mask, you know?
Trey: Yeah.
Well, it could be what we talked about.
Like as dead set, as, as Clint is on finding this Ronan suit,
maybe it's just something she finally drew the lines to get.
Ellie: I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I hope they give it to us.
So like, I hope that because I feel like it is really crucial for Kate
to know this information and as well for Clint to just share it.
And then it also brings up the question if like the entire world
is going to find out about this.
Cause you know, we touched on it earlier about like how the people may be
Clint if they learned that he's Ronan.
And it makes me wonder, like, do you think it's going to be
some extremely public situation?
Like Peter's identity being exposed at the end of far from home?
Like, is it going to be something that's highly like publicize or is it
something that like people learn and then it goes through maybe like the
rumor mill and then gradually more people, more people learn about it.
Like, it's, there's a lot of questions on how they're going to
handle this aspect of his storyline.
Trey: Yeah.
Well, I think that's going to wrap it up for this section, which is
going to bring us to our last one, which is a bit of a brief one.
Uh, it's a bit of a shorter episodes.
There wasn't too much towards the end here, but this most important
topic is breaking and entering.
And this is going to deal with Kate and Clint, essentially getting
into Kate's mom's apartment and going through her computer to find
out more information about Kasi.
Uh, and unfortunately they are caught by Jack himself.
So Ellie, do you have any specific place you'd like to start within this section?
I
Ellie: just knew they were going to get caught.
This is too easy.
I was like, are you kidding me?
Like, oh yeah, I'm sure it's so convenient.
That absolutely nobody's home.
And you're going to be able to walk on over to the computer and
look up what you need to look for and then you're going to be fine.
I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
Oh, someone they're going to get caught off guard.
Someone's going to be there waiting for
Jude: them.
Yeah.
Especially for us, especially for a very fancy home of someone
who owns a security business.
Ellie: Oh my God.
All
Trey: right.
Yeah.
You know, I I've been on this.
I think Jack is a red herring train since the first two episode drops.
So I got to say, I'm feeling pretty vindicated to have Kate like clearly
spell out all her evidence and it just falls completely flat on Clint.
And we're just like, okay, well, that's, you know, it's not exactly a crime.
It was just, it was very satisfying to see that all play out right.
And, and to add, cause again, I'm on the F I'm not on the Jack
train, but I am on the Eleanor.
Maybe not being who she says she is.
It was very interesting that Clint was like, how did Armando die?
And Kate says like, oh yeah, he was stabbed to death with a sword.
And Clint looks at all the swords that Eleanor has hanging on the wall.
So I think he started to suspect something a little bit different
than what Kate is putting forth.
Ellie: I think there's something really, definitely off with her mum.
I don't know.
I'm getting, I'm getting some kind of villain vibes.
Maybe it's just a feeling.
Maybe it's just the haircut.
I don't know.
But something is a little off about Eleanor and I'm wondering if, you know,
she also is, has got a bit of a secret side of her life that she has for
obvious reasons, not revealed to Kate.
Jude: Yeah, I think you're dead on, on that because it's just the conversation.
And the 2012 flashback was just too spot on of, of like concerns of money and
are we gonna have to sell the penthouse, you know, and showing this, you know,
and then she had the thing later.
Like I've not always been rich, so clearly there's a drive to hold on to this.
Um, so yeah, so like I I'm with you.
I'm just I'm I feel like next week's episode is going to be huge
because it's a lot of this stuff is going to drop in this next
Ellie: one.
I would, I think it'd be so funny.
You know what, I'm going with the assumption that we are
getting kingpin, I'm just going to go kind of logic right now.
I think it should be.
So it's official guys, everyone listening.
Um, I think it would be really funny if somehow, like she
was also working with Wilson.
I think that would be a very, very interesting I'm like, maybe
this is just like seriously reach reaching, but with like the tracksuit
mafia and how their suits are red and episode, was it episode two?
We see Eleanor wearing our red dress.
This is why, this is why I'm like this might be reaching a little bit.
Trey: We never, we talk about theories.
We specifically say we're holding onto grains of sand.
You were in the right place.
Whenever it comes to throwing out.
Yes.
Jude: And, and, and in color connections like that, we also, you know, we're
given, let's say, like we realize sometimes the curtains are just blue
and have no meaning, but we don't
Trey: care.
That's what
Ellie: makes it fun.
Trey: So I like that.
That's a good observation.
I just thought
Ellie: of that right now.
I don't even kidding.
I didn't even have the thought yesterday.
It just, it literally just came from,
Jude: you know, what that's that happens.
So many of my, my thoughts on these episodes of just like, oh, okay, cool.
Let me type this down.
Just realize this.
Yes.
That's the fun of podcasting, honestly.
So I have, I, I, we put a pin in this and I was waiting for this section.
Ooh, here we go.
At the end, at the end of the whole scene, Rodin's faced with the Rodin sword.
Yeah.
If Jack becomes Ronin or his frame for Ronan would receive that as
a satisfying resolution for haka.
No, no, really.
He would be
Trey: getting away with it.
Exactly.
Jude: Clint, doesn't it feel like that's kind of where it's going.
Like he has the road sword.
It, he, he feels like, you know, I guess I'm going completely against
the red herring idea, but at this point it's kind of hard to hold
that one on, like, you just have the road in sword of all the sores.
To Rodin's throat.
Trey: I'm gonna do you one better.
Why is Ronan?
No,
it didn't go to me for the last second.
Uh, I, I think you're onto something.
I think there will be a path where they can frame Ronan.
I'm sorry, where they can frame Jack as Ronan.
But the character moment is Clint is going to own up to it publicly.
And that is how he's going to be like, no, I can't do this.
This was me.
Whatever comes next.
I'm a toning for the sense of Ronan.
So I think you could be onto something there, but that will be the
character choice that Clint makes.
If this is the route they go.
Ellie: Yeah,
Jude: yeah, yeah, no, I don't disagree with that.
I just I'm watching that.
Th they're, they're riding themselves and out of how do you clear Kate's name?
How do you clear Clint's name?
Uh, at the same time.
Uh, but I, I do agree with you on the, like it's not, uh, or
wouldn't be a satisfying resolution, you know, unless, unless they
save that for season two, we'll
Ellie: say season two, work on a, get one they're bad or a
Trey: movie.
Oh yeah.
Ellie: I could call kind of like how with, um, Falcon, the winter soldier.
No season two, but we're getting another captain America.
Jude: Yeah.
Wait for that.
But I also, I would love to see Haley Seinfeld's Hawkeye
on the big screen and how,
Ellie: yeah.
It's no, it's going to, they've already been setting up for, um,
young Avengers, all that whole, you guys see that interview?
She got asked the question and she looked at Kevin and Kevin was
just like, don't you say at work?
Trey: Yeah.
Kevin snipey eyes.
Oh man.
Well, you know what, unless there's any more.
I think we can move on to stray thoughts.
Jude: Sure.
Cool.
All right.
Sounds good
Trey: to me.
So this is the section for us to just share any straight thoughts
we may have had that did not quite fit into the most important topics.
Uh, so Ellie, is there any stray thoughts you have for this episode?
Ellie: Anything happens to pizza dog?
I'm never watching
Jude: this show.
Well, you know, a lot of people agree with you on that.
I am in
Ellie: love with this dog.
Anything happens to him.
Trey: I'm just going to fall on this sword.
Jude, you did ask what does Kate have to lose?
Oh,
Jude: no.
Ellie: I was thinking it earlier when you guys were talking about
it, you're like, oh, like, you know her relationship with her mom,
there's her relationship with Clint?
And in the back of my mind, I was like, there's a very adorable golden
retriever that could probably have a significant impact on her life.
And then I was like, do not say it out loud.
Trey: I'll fall on that sword.
And you can send all your hit your Twitter.
Hate to me.
Ellie: Oh, trust me.
I will.
I'll be like, I'm like, okay, what day is it?
Uh, December 2nd.
Jude: Oh boy.
What a day?
Trey: Uh, what about you, dude?
You got any stray thoughts or this episode?
Jude: Uh, yeah, a couple of straight thoughts.
Uh, let's see.
Scroll through my notes real quick.
How deep was that ball pit then he was crawling around
that deep before, uh, I thought another fan throughout the whole episode, but
another fantastic use of Christmas music.
Oh yes.
Right from the Nutcracker.
Fantastic.
Oh
Ellie: man.
I love the Nutcracker.
Um, sweet.
I, oh goodness.
It's so good.
Jude: I started crying during the first watch run the phone
call that really got to me.
Oh, And the last two I've found interesting.
He says where she says the line, this is the day I become who I'm supposed to be.
And Clint said he remembers that day.
It did wonder the back wide with the strong push of family.
If, when he said that if he was talking about being like an Avenger
or shield agent, or more likely, I think he was talking about
being a husband and a father.
Um, and then lastly, I thought the whole branding thing with the costume as like,
and I'm just going to read it because I feel like I'm being really ageist right.
In this episode, uh, with me, it was like, it sort of fits this day
of social media that the 22 year old has an awareness of personal
branding to that degree, you know?
Cause like at 22 I would not have thought of like, oh, you're your personal
brand and, and, and stuff like that.
But again, for me.
20 years ago.
So, so it was a different time in terms of personal brand.
So those are my straight thoughts.
Trey: Yeah.
I got a couple straight thoughts and I'll go through and pretty quickly, there is
a scene at the beginning where they're fighting, uh, specifically Clint and Maya,
and we get a shot of Kate's perspective.
As we see Clint and Maya fighting in the office.
And you only see from through the window, there's shadows underneath that.
There is a sign that says nothing held back again.
Curtains are just blue, but Maya's fighting style
reminds me of Natasha's a lot.
And so having that, nothing held back feels like a callback to
civil war where Wanda says, you're pulling your punches to Clint.
So if he's thinking of Natasha a lot in this series to be faced against
somebody who is not holding her, their punches, it feels like an
emotional gut punch for the audience.
Yeah.
Jude: That's nice.
And
Trey: finally my other stray thought, you know, it's, again, another curtain
is blue thing, but so often we talk about the story circle and how the
last part of it is having returned to a familiar place having changed.
Uh, it's very fitting that this episode starts with Clint and Kate captured
and at odds and ends with them captured again, but as more of a cohesive team.
So,
Jude: yeah, that's a good, that's a good framing device.
Yeah.
Trey: Yeah.
So again, this episode is, is, is perfect.
Uh, perfect.
Strong it's it's one of
Jude: my favorites.
No, no, no, no, no.
Don't back off of that.
Cause, cause it was that moment then I forgot to say.
And the straight thought Kate getting to do the same move she
saw in 2012 was a great moment.
It was a great moment.
Yeah.
And getting to see that and get to participate in that, like, yeah.
I don't back off for perfect.
It's okay.
Trey: Oh, okay.
I'll say it's perfect caveat being, I know there's probably recency
bias, but man, I love this episode.
Ellie: It's really good.
It's really, really
Jude: good.
Own it, own it.
Ellie: Honestly, when I think about it, I'm like, okay.
I only remember the Falcon and the winter soldier episode three, honestly,
but like that was, I loved episode three for Falcon in the winter soldier.
I felt like that was like such a moment for that show.
Yeah.
And also just like a strong episode overall.
I might have some bias in it.
I don't know.
But.
It kind of reminded me of that.
And then it kind of like pushed me to think about Wanda vision
and like low key as well.
Like thinking about their episode three or, you know, they're
almost like middle episode.
Cause I feel like in a show like this, you always get that like really
big, strong episode or that really strong moment in the middle of it.
All you get that buildup, you get hit, you, you know, like you hit that peak
and then you get the aftermath of it.
Jude: Yeah.
Trey: Cool.
I, uh, I think that's going to do it for a stray thought.
So that's going to leave us with our listeners.
First takes a, we're going to read through some of the responses
we got on social media and how people felt about on this episode.
Uh, starting with this one, uh, this one comes in from Ben dot
Maddie on Insta and it says.
My favorite episode of any MCU TV show so far, can I have a PIM arrow?
Ellie: Oh my God.
Honestly, same
Trey: with it.
And I mean this in the literal sense, what a huge moment for the show.
Yes.
Ellie: I almost pause it cause I was like, oh my God, I'm seeing this
Jude: right.
I agree with both of your first reactions and to add this is the best
Clint has ever been both in terms of action and emotion TK on Instagram.
Ellie: I agree.
Tightly paced and written this episode has everything done.
Well, action.
Emotion, character from friend Daniel.
Jude: You don't want printed.
We're right there with you and Ellie.
I don't know if you know, Fred, Daniel is someone I've known, um, for a few
years now you still work with, and so friend Daniel, Trey, and I chat, and
he's been a guest a couple of times and we call him the universal friend, cause
he's also been on Teekay's podcast.
Um, yes.
So, um, so it's fun to have his interaction.
And I agreed, like, I think all three of us agree with his assessment of this,
this actual emotion of the character.
And again though, the pacing was so, cause there was a moment there
at the end of the, um, action scene where I kinda had a let down cause
like I was like, okay, it's ending.
But then it was like, oh no, there's more like, like this, it was well paced.
Trey: Yeah.
It's definitely a common theme throughout these first takes.
And uh, it continues here.
Uh, this one comes in from captioned life on Insta and it says best
episode yet of any Marvel show.
And again, like we said, I think we're all in agreement and um, shout out to caption
life by the way that we've been recently interacting with them on Twitter and
Ellie: podcasts.
I love that.
Trey: Yeah.
It's just so awesome.
We just, we just got recommended their first and second episode of Hawkeye
and we both thoroughly enjoyed it.
So I'm so glad that again, like I said, the, uh, the pod friend list is growing.
I
Ellie: love the pod friend list.
Favorite thing.
Jude: Uh, see, and don't back off any Marvel show, a fantastic episode for
me, best fight choreography and sequence among the Disney plus shows a very tight
and well-balanced episode, it hit the mark and I'm looking forward to the rest.
Also pizza dog with one eye is actually just winking at us this whole time.
Hashtag pizza dog from kid on Twitter.
Ellie: You know what I agree?
He cause he totally looks like he's winking really cute.
It's my favorite thing about him.
That's why I wanted, um, the, the Funko pop that came.
Jude: I didn't see the Funko pop.
I put it on the discord.
Oh, I missed, I missed it.
I must've missed it.
Okay.
Ellie: Well now this is your homework
Jude: to go find the discord and see it.
Ellie: Um, this was my favorite episode of the three.
So far tracksuit mafia proved a bit more of a threat.
The new villain shows to be a strong foil to Hawkeye and the teas.
This brings me great joy also as a father that call with Clint and
Nathaniel hit me hard from just Mr.
Melt from Twitter.
Yeah.
I, again, I agree.
Especially the Capitol tease that we
Jude: so good teas it's official.
It's Fisk, you know, and again, I cried I'm with you.
It's a
very
Ellie: emotional moment.
Yeah, it really was.
Trey: Ah, finally, we've got one more, uh, three more.
Do we have three?
Oh, I'm not looking at the right thing.
Yeah.
You got
Jude: to scroll.
You got to scroll.
Trey: Then remember when I said Jude was doing my work for me earlier.
So, you know what, then I'll read this one and then we'll continue on.
Uh, this one says, I love this episode and I really appreciate the representation.
The person who plays Maya is actually an amputee and Def it feels like
Hollywood has always been content.
Just address any actor up in that.
But I appreciate that they actually got someone from that community
plus she's native American, which I feel like we don't see enough of.
And then there were some shots that I just absolutely loved as well,
like when they were in the car and the camera's turning around without
cutting perfection in my eyes.
And this comes in from Paul via text.
And, uh, I'm, I'm glad Paul brought up the, the, the, the
shot in the car, because there were so many wonderful things that
that action sequence was doing.
Like we said, there was so much to get to it.
It was hard to get it all, but I'm glad he pointed that out for sure.
Jude: Well, there was a second text as well, cause it's my cousin who texted me.
Um, and he was also happy to see as a left-hand.
Um, person was Paul.
He was like, anytime I get left-handed representation, I'm all for it.
I'm digging the show episode three was fun.
Can't wait to hear your takes skull face project on Instagram.
Okay.
I have a question for you Ellie, real quick.
Is it Instagram or instill?
What do you say?
Or as you say, I G
Ellie: um, I feel like I usually say Insta.
Okay.
I feel like I usually say instead, I just cause it's faster, but you know, I started
Jude: asking people at work and kids that I work with.
Like I like, like, I want to know it depends
Ellie: on your audience.
Who are you talking to?
Okay.
That's the kind of
Jude: candidates, Scarface project.
Thank you for the interaction.
Cause he also messaged us.
Um, and it was fun to talk to you through that.
Uh, and I, and hopefully you enjoy this episode and I agree with you.
It was just such a fun episode.
I think
Ellie: we can all agree on that front.
Ooh, last one.
All right.
I'm really enjoying this series.
I'm grateful that Marvel is releasing these shows, but I can't wait to
see this unfold on the big screen, new type dot Nova from Insta.
Yeah.
I have to agree.
I'm excited to see it on the big stuff.
Trey: Yeah.
I was going to say what a fitting one for you to end on, because you just
mentioned how you were manifesting Kate being on the big screen.
So yeah, I think we're also in agreement here.
Ellie: It's going to, it's always fun to, I mean, cause like, I mean
the shows are absolutely wonderful.
The way that they've been done for the small screen.
Oh, beautifully done.
Yeah.
But to be able to, cause I mean the real true like moment is
seeing them on the big screen.
So I'm excited
Trey: for that.
Most definitely.
Well, cool.
Uh, thank you everybody for chiming in with your first takes
on episode three of Hong Kong.
We really appreciate it.
And if you're listening and you want to get in on that as well,
you can always search for our pre spoiler thoughts that we put up on
the day of the episodes release.
If not the day after, uh, if you reply to those, we will
read your first take on the pod.
Um, we're wrapping up here.
We've got predictions for episode four left.
So Ellie, do you have any predictions for next week's episode?
I
Ellie: don't know if it's just an F, is this a theory or is this a want
that's that's the real question.
I have been waiting since episode one for my girl.
Yelaina to finally make her appearance in this show.
I've been waiting.
I need, I need Florence Pugh.
No, I need her to take some shots at Clint and based off what I feel like
upset for is going to be, I think maybe.
End of the episode, we'll see her face.
Jude: Nice.
Well, I'm going to echo that
look tres upon person.
So anytime I can get it, but yeah, no, I, we don't have my camera turned on, but
if we did, you would have seen my hand shot up in the air cause I'm with you.
That's like I can't wait to see you later.
Again, what I'm most excited about is seeing the, uh, is hopefully at some
point in an extended fashion Yulaina and.
Kate Bishop interaction.
Yeah, because I just think those two characters, we so well together,
so it's like, I please get that.
That's that's my, that's my hope slash prediction for next week's episode.
Trey: Well, you know what?
Speaking of, if we had cameras on, dude, whenever you were talking about,
is Jack going to be framed for Roden?
You could not see the biggest smile on my face because here in my predictions
for episode four, I put next week, we're going to see Jack is not the villain
we think he is, but he's not going to make life any easier for Kate and Clint.
I think maybe Jack is in a little trouble of his own that he's going
to use Kate and Clint as scapegoats.
So if I'm, if I'm using your logic about him being framed, it feels like this would
be a great narrative, like drama to see that he's trying to use them as scapegoats
and they have the perfect opportunity to do that to him and choose not to instead.
So that's going to be my prediction for episode four.
Jude: Okay.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Trey: Yeah.
Well, I think that's going to do it for this episode, Ellie.
I just want to say thank you so much for coming on, which may have
been the longest episode we've ever done with a first-time guest and
you fit in perfectly, so much fun.
Ellie: Well, thank you for inviting me.
I was so excited when you messaged me on Twitter.
Trey: Yeah.
W cause we were just talking about this.
We haven't really had a new guest since before low-key so we were there's some
first time jitters we had going into this, but it, it worked out really well
and I could not be thankful enough.
Jude: Yeah.
It was so much fun.
Thank you for, um, I mean, how could
Ellie: I not, um, I get super excited.
Talking about Marvel and I'm like, I will take any opportunity
to talk about with anyone.
Trey: Well, if you listening are interested in any of those opportunities,
you should definitely be falling Ellie on, oh, add, oh, shoot podcast on
Twitter, Instagram and Tik TOK, as well as downloading and subscribing to their show.
Oh, shoot podcast available on anchor apple podcast, Spotify, and more now,
as far as this show, if you enjoyed this one, you can always reach us at MC you
need to know on Twitter and Instagram.
Uh, it's a great place to, uh, get in touch with us, share your first takes as
well as get some extra clips that don't make it into the final cut of the episode.
So if that's interesting to you, make sure you're following us and.
Thanks.
Jude: And of course, scroll down to the bottom.
She can find a link to our discord where you find a wonderful
community to talk about everything.
I just, the other day posted my 2022 book list challenge of, uh, to read a different
book a month for 2022, and hopefully have this community keep me accountable.
Um, but also if you're here, you love Marvel.
Same as the people in the discord.
So make sure you go check on the role of sign, click on the emojis
to get you access to all the spoiler channels for this content you came for.
And of course, Don't be at then expand that you MC you need to know
universe by sharing with a friend.
Yeah.
Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song,
which is his rendition of Liam.
And you're saying you find more of his work on a SoundCloud, which is
linked in the show notes as well.
That's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and due to Nelly.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Jude: Thank you.
Trey: We'll see you all next week.
Ellie: I think that would be a very, very interesting I'm like, maybe
this is just like seriously reach reaching, but with like the tracksuit
mafia and how their suits are red.
Trey: Okay.
So, uh, uh, I think we may have lost Ellie.
Jude: Yeah, I don't hear.
It's just
Ellie: connecting.
Trey: All right.
Well, uh, we'd like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song,
which is his rendition of the Avengers.
Jude: Sure.
To share with a friend
Trey: what's going to suck is if Ellie can hear us and she just hears us
laughing and cutting up, sorry, I was trying to make the Kevin fakie nose
joke and I called him Kevin snipey
Jude: you're
Ellie: not wrong dots.
You know what?
That's actually so funny as I'm going, working through a theory, it cuts out.
He's like, he,
Trey: he knows.
I know he knows.
Jude: Oh man.
Ellie: So what was the last thing I said?