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Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore Podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

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we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

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know by sharing, commenting and
following so that you can join in on

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everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

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an expert in the field of
artificial intelligence.

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Today's guest helped architect such
things as infinite sprawling, like

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functionality, add optimization and
other attention diverting AI features,

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feeling something was deeply missing from
his life as city dweller uprooted his

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life to live in the mountains, to learn
to hunt and trap, and has written the

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book, turning Ferrell, which documents
his journey, broadcasting remotely from

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the base of the saute Youth Mountains
in the small town of Atlanta, Idaho.

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Population 35.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Zach Hansen.

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Zach Hanson: Wow.

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Thank you, Travis.

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That was quite the introduction, but, uh,
hearing you, uh, read off those things

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that I've been a part of it, I can't help
but feel a little guilty as I think about

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people scrolling through their phones
and stuck in, uh, social media loopholes,

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, 
Travis Bader: you know, I remember
reading a book a long time ago, I think

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it was called, um,  Addictive habits.

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I think that's what the book was called.

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Uh, or programming addiction,
something along those lines,

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but addictive traits anyways.

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Oh, the psychology of building like
infinite scrolling and like functionally

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there's a lot that goes into keeping
people hooked on their electronic devices

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and, uh, basically indoors and uh, and
numb looking for that next dopamine hit.

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Zach Hanson: Yep, that's exactly it.

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It's one of those weird things where that
psychology and technology merge, uh, in

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a non-positive way, uh, as we found out
over the years, uh mm-hmm . But it's

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interesting for me cuz I'm a new father.

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I have two young kids, one's
two, the other's four months.

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You know, just seeing how easily my
two-year-old daughter can interact with

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an iPhone or an iPad is mind blowing
to me and it's scary at the same time

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and makes me feel tick of regret.

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Travis Bader: Well, I, you know, you're
an expert in the field of artificial

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intelligence and I think about how, like
you say, how easy it is for a youngster

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to be able to handle an iPhone or an iPad.

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Um, really, like if you look at us as
humans, and let's say we had a bunch

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of dogs that we had to take care of,
we could pretty easily whip him into

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shape, have 'em trained up and you know,
do doing what we want to do because.

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we're smarter than dogs.

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Artificial intelligence,
that's an interesting thing.

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I mean, I'm looking at, uh, open
AI chat, G p t, all of this stuff.

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Mm-hmm.

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, and I'm thinking of the mass amount
of information that's out there

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and the idea that people think they
have unique thought, but really how

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much of what we do is, is unique.

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How much of it is just us
running an autopilot based on

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things that we've kinda learned?

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I gotta, I gotta wonder, as cool as this
whole artificial intelligence thing is

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that we're on the sort of the cusp of,
it's also pretty scary in some ways too.

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I don't know.

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What, what's your take on this whole AI
thing from a person with a background?

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Zach Hanson: Uh, there's a reason
I live at the end of an 80 mile

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dirt road in a town of 35 people.

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, , you know, in, in reality, right?

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It, it's not from a fear-mongering
standpoint, like, you know, the

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robots are gonna take over the world,
but, you know, it's so easy to be

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manipulated by technology and, you
know, Being so entrenched in it

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myself, I wanted to personally get
away and, you know, introduce as much

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non-technical aspects into my everyday
life as I possibly could, because

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there's no way you get away from it.

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Mm-hmm.

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, I mean, you and I are mm-hmm.

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able to have this conversation
because of really cool technology.

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You know, Elon Musk has some low orbit
satellites that are beaming signals up and

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down so that you and I can talk right now.

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Sure.

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And that's pretty, pretty
freaking cool in my opinion.

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Yeah.

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But you know, when you get through
the social aspects, that's where

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like, I wanted buffers and I chose
to live where we're living now.

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So, you know, when I am done with work,
when my laptop is off, when my cell

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phone's not in my hand, or I go two feet
out of my driveway, I'm disconnected.

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Right.

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And, uh, yep.

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I, I loved your metaphor at the beginning
though, as far as the dog training.

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Mm.

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Um, the only thing that I would
disagree with you there, Travis, Is,

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as you read my book, I don't know if
that's a great reference because there

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are so many canines, at least wild
ones that are way smarter than me,

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So

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Travis Bader: yeah, no, I,
that was a recurring theme

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as I read through the book.

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I love the humility, I love
the honesty in your book.

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Um, yeah, I was gonna say
monkeys, I don't know.

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Dogs essentially just a mass aggregate of
information out there that when, when you

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just, uh, when you, when you take all of
that, it's pretty easy to spot patterns,

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particularly if for a program to do it.

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Like I was using the artificial
intelligence, I'd upload whole

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books and I'd say, explain it
to me like I'm five years old.

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And then for fun, oh, make it into a poem,
turn it into a haiku, and it would do it.

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Uh, the amount that you can upload
now, I think as of a week or two ago

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has been limited, but, um, I'm sure
they'll charge for that feature.

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Yeah.

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But you know, another one, like, I
wrote a article before and I thought,

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you know, just for fun, I'll give it.

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A one sentence parameter on this,
uh, was about five or six pages typed

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article that I put together, write an
article on, and I put it out there.

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And if it didn't come pretty
close to what I spent a few days

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writing within a couple of seconds.

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I mean, it's amazing what it
can do and I thought I had all

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this unique thought in there.

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Zach Hanson: Yeah, I mean, I think that's
what's interesting is where ai, especially

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when you're talking about chat, G p T
and um, other things that are trained

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on large corpuses of data, um, you know,
data that is an aggregate of many people

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who are not as unique as we think we are.

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We all think we're super
unique, you know, individuals.

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Sure.

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But when you look at it in aggregate,
we're not really, so when you look at the

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ingestion of articles, the ingestion of
books, and you do that across a wide array

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of individuals, when you put a prompt in,
you're gonna get something back that's

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pretty close to you, but, You know, to put
a little feather of optimism here, like

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the amount of data it would take to have
1000% uniqueness in, you know, writing

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and art would be nearly impossible.

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There's always gonna be this
percentage and ability for humans

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to, you know, not necessarily
outperform because that's defined

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by the metrics you're measuring it.

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But from a uniqueness perspective,
there's optimism there.

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I mean, you're gonna get really close and
it's gonna be fuzzy lines where you're

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like, was that like a machine that,
you know, wrote that or painted that?

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but you know, humans are humans
and we do some pretty unique shit.

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So I, I think we're always gonna
have the edge there slightly.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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I guess the only scary thing about that
whole AI is what you mentioned earlier,

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and that's the ability to manipulate.

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And we've seen manipulation at large
scale, particularly over the last few

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years, whether for good or for bad or
best intenses or whatever it might be.

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But you take the job of manipulation
and you look at that mass aggregate

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and you take a look at, uh, what would
be the most effective way to do so,

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it'll spit back solutions in seconds.

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What would usually take experts a fair
bit of time to come up with a plan.

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So that's, uh, that's the scary thing.

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Zach Hanson: Yeah.

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Well, like I said, you know, you get
big mass groups of people, you know,

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with proctored information, you.

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Good or bad, you're gonna have fallout.

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And again, that's maybe why I live in a
town at the end of a road that happened

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to be in the sixties, a really popular
place for nuclear bug out, uh, individuals

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because of the way the trade winds blow.

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So, you know, we've got some caves,
we've got all sort of stuff, natural

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water, hot springs, so, you know,
come out to the Atlanta, Idaho when,

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uh, the AI robots take over and we
can all hide out and fight back.

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. 
Travis Bader: Well, you're doing
something that a lot of people

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fantasize about, a lot of people
dream about, but not many people

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have the courage to actually actuate.

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and you know, particularly since
Covid hit the idea of being more

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self-sufficient, self-reliant, uh,
uh, where does my food come from?

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How, how can I survive
if things go sideways?

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Um, you started that prior to
Covid when the world really

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started becoming awake to that.

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Uh, can you tell me a little bit about
what life was like prior to wanting to

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hunt and trap and move out in the bush
and kind of what drove you to this?

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Zach Hanson: Yeah.

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There's a lot of factors, right?

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Um, you know, first and foremost, you
know, the life that I was living with my

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ex-wife at the time was, was very nice.

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It was very Kush.

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Mm-hmm.

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, right?

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You know, I was working in
artificial intelligence.

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My ex-wife was an F b I special agent, so
we were, you know, living in Louisiana.

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not my, uh, favorite state in the
world, but you know, it was good.

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We had a nice big house.

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We had the cars, we had dogs,
we went on vacations every year.

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You know, we were really doing,
and I mentioned in the book,

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keeping up with the Jones's, right?

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It's like, you know, what was
the American dream for us?

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You know, white picket fence,
big house, all of that.

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Um, and I felt hollow, just to be frank.

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Like I didn't know what the feeling was.

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It's not like I woke up in a
depression, but I just constantly

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felt like there was something missing.

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And you know, my ex-wife was an athlete.

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I was an athlete.

00:10:35.195 --> 00:10:37.440
We both did, you know,
really high level juujitsu.

00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.300
She was a jujitsu world champion.

00:10:39.630 --> 00:10:44.010
And so we were traveling for competition,
but we, and I did some ultra running,

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but I was always focused on fitness.

00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:47.700
And part of fitness is nutrition.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.390
You know, I'd been a wrestler all through
high school, college, the whole lot.

00:10:51.630 --> 00:10:54.570
So it was something that was just
a big part of our lives, especially

00:10:54.575 --> 00:10:55.650
since we didn't have kids.

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It was, you know, wake up, train, work,
repeat, and you know,  that brought

00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.430
some joy, you know, brought community
and camaraderie and you know, our gym.

00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.450
But as we kind of got down that
path more and more of like,

00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:10.620
okay, what can we optimize?

00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:11.760
What can we optimize?

00:11:12.630 --> 00:11:15.420
You know, you start looking at the foods
you eat, you know, we were counting

00:11:15.425 --> 00:11:18.480
our macros, doing all this stuff that
makes you miserable, in my opinion.

00:11:18.485 --> 00:11:23.850
Hindsight being what it is, . Um, you
know, and the meats we were consuming

00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:27.870
were okay, but to get like decent
quality, we were having to go to real

00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:30.900
high-end grass-fed beef, grass-fed bison.

00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:35.160
And that led us down the path of
like, okay, well what about wild game?

00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:38.460
And this was also the same time
that I think, you know, and my

00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:41.580
wife, as I mentioned in the book,
was very much into social media.

00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:43.470
Even I was to a degree with Instagram.

00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:46.541
So, you know, you followed the
Joe Rogans, the campaigns and

00:11:46.546 --> 00:11:47.760
they're like, yeah, I eat elk meat.

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And like, well, what, what is that?

00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:49.700
Mm-hmm.

00:11:49.780 --> 00:11:56.220
. And that really started the, yeah, I
guess the snowball for me it was just

00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:59.460
a, a curiosity and I happened to have.

00:12:00.005 --> 00:12:00.975
, you know, in-laws.

00:12:01.035 --> 00:12:02.595
My wife's family were hunters.

00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.085
They're from Middle Tennessee and Right.

00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:08.865
You know, we started talking about it at
family get togethers and my, you know,

00:12:08.865 --> 00:12:11.985
we were talking about like, we should
really get in, you know, we were using all

00:12:11.985 --> 00:12:18.285
the really, you know, cringey language,
like we should harvest our own meat and,

00:12:18.375 --> 00:12:19.995
you know, all this really dumb shit.

00:12:20.415 --> 00:12:23.265
And my father-in-law just, you know,
good old boy looks at me, he's like,

00:12:24.185 --> 00:12:28.005
you know, I've got a freezer full
of, you know, deer from like the past

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six years that I go get every year.

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And you're not harvesting shit.

00:12:31.245 --> 00:12:32.085
Yeah, shooting it.

00:12:32.355 --> 00:12:36.465
And it's right there, . Um, so,
you know, immediately brought

00:12:36.465 --> 00:12:37.815
down a peg, but it's like, oh.

00:12:37.815 --> 00:12:42.825
So he gave us some ground venison
and, you know, we tried, if we were

00:12:42.825 --> 00:12:48.615
eating it, delicious food, you know,
did we see like a performance gain

00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:54.165
from switching from, you know, grass
fed beef to, you know, wild game?

00:12:54.435 --> 00:12:55.065
I don't know.

00:12:55.155 --> 00:12:57.255
Uh, probably not, but it was good.

00:12:57.255 --> 00:12:58.335
It was a mental thing.

00:12:59.125 --> 00:13:00.405
and that prompted me to buy a bow.

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You know, like, I don't know why, uh,
I had no interest in rifle hunting at

00:13:04.965 --> 00:13:08.055
the time, so got a hand me down bow
and just kind of started the journey.

00:13:09.255 --> 00:13:09.375
Yeah.

00:13:09.375 --> 00:13:10.305
Travis Bader: You started hard.

00:13:10.335 --> 00:13:14.295
I mean, you're gonna start with the bow
and say, oh, I, I want to be a hunter.

00:13:14.325 --> 00:13:15.285
Okay, let's get a bow.

00:13:15.285 --> 00:13:17.175
I've seen people on social media do this.

00:13:17.205 --> 00:13:18.345
I've seen others.

00:13:18.465 --> 00:13:19.425
Looks easy enough.

00:13:19.785 --> 00:13:25.485
But I mean, from reading your
book, , the uh, uh, maybe not as

00:13:25.485 --> 00:13:29.235
easy as, uh, as the social media
influencers might make it sound.

00:13:29.235 --> 00:13:31.095
So tell me about that journey.

00:13:31.095 --> 00:13:34.935
You got your bow, you got a buddy
who's, he said, let's go practice

00:13:34.935 --> 00:13:36.615
with this and let's, let's be hunters.

00:13:36.795 --> 00:13:38.595
What were people laughing at?

00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:38.965
Atk?

00:13:40.015 --> 00:13:42.375
Zach Hanson: Uh, my ex-wife included.

00:13:42.555 --> 00:13:42.885
Yeah.

00:13:42.885 --> 00:13:43.905
It was one of those things.

00:13:44.005 --> 00:13:44.525
Cause.

00:13:45.450 --> 00:13:49.570
I grew up in South Carolina, rural
area, but you know, I was surrounded

00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:51.570
by people who would hunt, but
I never went hunting, you know?

00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:54.960
So I, at this time, I think
I was like 28, 29 years old.

00:13:55.290 --> 00:13:58.830
So, you know, getting up close to
my thirties and I never hunted.

00:13:59.250 --> 00:14:02.940
All of a sudden I'm like, I want to
hunt and I wanna hunt with a bow and

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.520
I'm gonna get a hand-me-down bow from
a buddy who's a little shorter than

00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:06.840
me and I'm just gonna make it work.

00:14:07.410 --> 00:14:11.580
Um, so in the book I chronicle like
some of the setting up a range and

00:14:11.610 --> 00:14:15.270
hucking arrows into my neighbors,
you know, roofs, things like that.

00:14:15.390 --> 00:14:18.780
All this stuff you don't wanna be honest
about, but happened, you know, couldn't

00:14:18.780 --> 00:14:24.630
even pull my bow back, dry, fired it
the whole lot and, you know, learned

00:14:24.630 --> 00:14:31.545
the hard way, but, you know,  for all
the bad that comes outta social media.

00:14:31.545 --> 00:14:36.285
Like seeing those influencers was a, you
know, to be cheesy, an influence on me.

00:14:36.290 --> 00:14:37.485
It gave me some confidence.

00:14:37.485 --> 00:14:39.075
Like, Hey, this person can do it.

00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:40.095
I can figure it out.

00:14:40.395 --> 00:14:44.625
Um, I'm hardheaded enough to, and
there's plenty of YouTube videos.

00:14:44.625 --> 00:14:50.505
And going back to technology, the,
one of the amazing things is just the

00:14:51.255 --> 00:14:55.335
readily available amount of information,
whether that's YouTube, whether that's,

00:14:55.605 --> 00:14:57.225
you know, a social media platform.

00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.915
Like if you do wanna learn,
there's available resources

00:15:00.915 --> 00:15:02.235
that are easy to consume.

00:15:02.265 --> 00:15:04.845
Cuz when I grew up, my
granddad always pushed me.

00:15:04.845 --> 00:15:06.405
He's like, you wanna learn
something, read a book.

00:15:06.405 --> 00:15:07.485
And that's what I was raised on.

00:15:07.490 --> 00:15:07.545
Mm-hmm.

00:15:07.625 --> 00:15:07.905
. So I love it.

00:15:08.655 --> 00:15:11.685
And that's one of the reasons I
like to write books, but you know,

00:15:11.865 --> 00:15:13.095
now you don't have to even do that.

00:15:13.125 --> 00:15:16.185
You can go and watch a two minute video
on how to pull a bow back and then just

00:15:16.185 --> 00:15:17.985
hope that you, you know, figure it out.

00:15:17.990 --> 00:15:18.765
And that's what I did.

00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.560
. 
Travis Bader: Well, you know,
you talk about the mass amount of

00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:24.270
information that's out there, free.

00:15:24.900 --> 00:15:29.490
YouTube's obviously a big one, and I think
that's the whole reason why we have an

00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:32.939
air brackets for those who aren't watching
and they're listening influencers.

00:15:32.944 --> 00:15:35.699
And some people hate the name, some
people love the name, but essentially

00:15:35.910 --> 00:15:39.600
there's so much information out there
that these people become information

00:15:39.870 --> 00:15:44.640
concierges and you say, well, I like that
person, or, I like what they're doing.

00:15:44.699 --> 00:15:48.480
Um, maybe that'll shortcut me from
having to sift through everything

00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.900
that's out there and I'll just,
I'll just follow their steps.

00:15:51.905 --> 00:15:56.550
A, B, C, and, and that's why I
think the, uh, the whole influencer

00:15:56.579 --> 00:15:57.760
trend kind of came about.

00:15:57.990 --> 00:15:58.560
And you're right.

00:15:58.770 --> 00:15:59.340
Is it good?

00:15:59.340 --> 00:15:59.970
Is it bad?

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:00.450
I don't know.

00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:01.530
Depends on what you're looking at.

00:16:01.560 --> 00:16:05.550
It depends on how you want to use
it, but clearly, uh, it turned out

00:16:05.550 --> 00:16:09.420
for the best for you if it got you
outside and it, and it got you hunting.

00:16:10.110 --> 00:16:10.230
Yeah.

00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:12.510
Um, yeah.

00:16:12.569 --> 00:16:13.079
So.

00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.979
When you first started out, I know
you write in the book, you figured,

00:16:16.979 --> 00:16:18.599
okay, I, I learned how to do this.

00:16:18.599 --> 00:16:21.839
I'm gonna be out and, uh,
I'll get myself a deer.

00:16:21.839 --> 00:16:23.400
I just gotta sit up in
a tree, stand a deer.

00:16:23.400 --> 00:16:24.839
I'll walk by and I'll take this thing.

00:16:24.839 --> 00:16:27.000
Maybe I gotta wait a little
bit, but it's gonna happen.

00:16:27.300 --> 00:16:28.770
That wasn't quite the story, was it?

00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:29.760
Zach Hanson: Nope.

00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:34.500
It, it, it went probably, and one
of the things that I hope, and I've

00:16:34.505 --> 00:16:37.140
gotten feedback on the book is,
you know, people who've even hunted

00:16:37.140 --> 00:16:40.589
their whole lives kind of appreciate,
you know, these overlooked aspects.

00:16:40.589 --> 00:16:44.610
Like, uh, I mentioned as I thought
about pig hunting and deer hunting

00:16:44.610 --> 00:16:49.949
for the first time, you know, I had
every scenario painted in my head.

00:16:49.949 --> 00:16:51.630
By this time, I'd shot
thousands of arrows.

00:16:51.630 --> 00:16:53.969
I could do it with confidence,
never shot in an animal.

00:16:54.329 --> 00:16:57.689
You know, we got our ex-wives,
f b i agents to heckle us.

00:16:57.689 --> 00:17:00.540
Why we shot to kind of, you know,
we knew we were gonna get buck

00:17:00.540 --> 00:17:02.219
fever, so we wanted to do that.

00:17:02.224 --> 00:17:06.149
And, and to this day, I've never
had buck fever, I think thanks

00:17:06.149 --> 00:17:07.500
to that section or session.

00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:13.575
So you, that was a, you know, good
investment on our part, but you know, , I

00:17:13.575 --> 00:17:19.155
had every potential outcome mapped out
in my head except for the one that was

00:17:19.155 --> 00:17:21.105
most likely to happen, which was nothing.

00:17:21.225 --> 00:17:22.485
And that's what I talk about the book.

00:17:22.485 --> 00:17:22.645
Mm-hmm.

00:17:22.725 --> 00:17:27.135
. So I would sit for like two days in this
tree where a deer I was told would walk

00:17:27.135 --> 00:17:31.545
by, you know, I'd be able to put my pin
on his vitals and, you know, that's it.

00:17:31.545 --> 00:17:32.595
That's, that's the story.

00:17:32.745 --> 00:17:36.165
But all I saw were squirrels, so, right.

00:17:36.165 --> 00:17:40.305
You know, you, you're never prepared fully
for what the experience is gonna be like.

00:17:40.305 --> 00:17:43.766
And honestly, like a lot of hunting
is really boring, you know, it's a lot

00:17:43.771 --> 00:17:49.035
of time for self-reflection and, you
know, battling with your own ego and

00:17:49.035 --> 00:17:51.105
realizing that you're not really hot shit.

00:17:51.110 --> 00:17:55.695
And, you know, nature really
owned you at all times of the day.

00:17:55.815 --> 00:17:56.205
So

00:17:57.045 --> 00:17:59.985
Travis Bader: can you talk about battling
with your ego when you're out there?

00:18:00.015 --> 00:18:04.605
Because I know when I'm out hunting
or I'm in the mountains, or I'm hiking

00:18:04.665 --> 00:18:09.045
and I'm out in the water, surfing,
whatever it is, I'm, I'm isolated.

00:18:09.045 --> 00:18:11.045
I'm out there inevitably.

00:18:11.879 --> 00:18:12.120
Yep.

00:18:12.149 --> 00:18:16.470
The brain starts going and
things start coming up.

00:18:16.470 --> 00:18:20.459
You're having fights are, are
reoccurring for me anyways.

00:18:20.465 --> 00:18:24.449
And it takes a few days for the
brain to kind of shut off and to

00:18:24.449 --> 00:18:27.120
kind of move to a more positive area.

00:18:27.389 --> 00:18:30.540
What's it like for you, and when you
say battling the ego, what do you mean?

00:18:31.129 --> 00:18:37.530
Zach Hanson: Well, I have been very
fortunate, Travis, in that I have, I

00:18:37.534 --> 00:18:46.120
grew up in combat sports where your
ego gets decimated, um, constantly.

00:18:46.125 --> 00:18:49.590
And I'll give a poignant example, and
this might make a few people laugh.

00:18:49.590 --> 00:18:53.370
So my, uh, my first year of high
school I was on the wrestling team,

00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:59.399
um, never wrestled before, just got a
whim I wanted to wrestle and started

00:18:59.405 --> 00:19:04.230
doing it was not terrible, but I
was on like the junior team, right?

00:19:04.235 --> 00:19:05.580
So not the varsity team.

00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:10.170
We go to our first match against our
rival school who was like, you know,

00:19:10.230 --> 00:19:11.880
state champions, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:17.460
Well, the 135 pound wrestler on
the varsity team got sick that day.

00:19:18.210 --> 00:19:18.660
So, okay.

00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:22.620
This is the first time that both of
my parents, my sister girlfriend,

00:19:22.620 --> 00:19:24.390
are coming to watch me do jv.

00:19:25.220 --> 00:19:29.430
But I get bumped up to varsity
because this guy is sick.

00:19:30.030 --> 00:19:33.210
The opponent I'm going against
is a two-time state champion.

00:19:34.350 --> 00:19:39.810
So my first real wrestling
experience, I go out and I go

00:19:39.810 --> 00:19:41.280
to the little board to sign in.

00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.710
My parents, everybody's there watching.

00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:44.640
They're like, oh, it's Zack.

00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:46.290
I have this ridiculous headgear.

00:19:46.290 --> 00:19:47.520
Cause I wasn't cool yet.

00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:49.950
I didn't know all the cool
gear, so I looked like a dork

00:19:51.270 --> 00:19:52.950
I sign it at the table, Travis.

00:19:52.955 --> 00:19:58.350
I turn around to go into the mat
to go actually wrestle this guy

00:19:58.355 --> 00:19:59.970
who's inevitably gonna beat my ass.

00:20:00.540 --> 00:20:03.510
Trip over the mat, land on my face.

00:20:03.929 --> 00:20:05.340
Bust my nose.

00:20:05.730 --> 00:20:12.040
I get blood time before the match
starts , I get a tampon shoved out

00:20:12.040 --> 00:20:18.179
my nose, , and then in a singlet in
a cold gym, I get like mercy killed

00:20:18.179 --> 00:20:20.129
by this guy in like 20 seconds.

00:20:20.340 --> 00:20:21.000
So, you know.

00:20:21.060 --> 00:20:21.540
Oh man.

00:20:21.899 --> 00:20:22.649
Travis Bader: With all your family

00:20:22.649 --> 00:20:23.600
Zach Hanson: and friends watching.

00:20:24.149 --> 00:20:24.720
Exactly.

00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.129
You know, so that was like my first
experience was like really just crushing

00:20:29.129 --> 00:20:30.870
your ego and realizing it doesn't exist.

00:20:30.870 --> 00:20:34.770
But what I meant with the conversation
about battling your ego, for me,

00:20:34.770 --> 00:20:36.240
I've always had comparison issues.

00:20:36.330 --> 00:20:41.159
I think a lot of people do influencers
and social media propagated that at

00:20:41.159 --> 00:20:42.570
the beginning of my hunting journey.

00:20:42.570 --> 00:20:46.379
So like seeing the campaign, seeing
the Joe Rogan, seeing the, you

00:20:46.379 --> 00:20:49.710
know, John Dudleys of the world out
there just killing it, you know?

00:20:50.475 --> 00:20:54.585
You know, post is about this great
kill, you know, I had built up in myself

00:20:54.585 --> 00:20:55.935
like, I should be able to do that.

00:20:55.935 --> 00:20:57.675
Like that is the
experience I'm gonna have.

00:20:57.675 --> 00:20:59.115
That is what hunting is like.

00:20:59.135 --> 00:20:59.745
Mm-hmm.

00:20:59.825 --> 00:21:02.895
. And so when I was out there and I
wasn't experiencing those things,

00:21:03.105 --> 00:21:04.695
I wasn't having those successes.

00:21:04.695 --> 00:21:08.534
I was running into things that maybe
they didn't talk about or, you know,

00:21:09.315 --> 00:21:14.085
not by them intentionally leaving
it out, but they've been doing it

00:21:14.085 --> 00:21:16.784
for so long, you know, you kind
of forget the steps along the way.

00:21:17.655 --> 00:21:17.745
Mm-hmm.

00:21:18.225 --> 00:21:20.205
, that was causing me to have
these battles with my ego.

00:21:20.205 --> 00:21:21.044
Like, what is wrong with me?

00:21:21.044 --> 00:21:24.375
Like, why am I not being able to
have these experiences like these

00:21:24.379 --> 00:21:27.794
guys are, and that's the ego battle
I'd have, like sitting in a tree

00:21:27.794 --> 00:21:29.445
stand, like, what am I doing wrong?

00:21:29.445 --> 00:21:32.745
Like, you know, I should be able
to have the same thing they are.

00:21:32.925 --> 00:21:34.395
And the answer is no.

00:21:34.605 --> 00:21:38.024
I would put my ego
aside, you know, I'm new.

00:21:38.085 --> 00:21:39.405
I, I don't know what I'm doing.

00:21:39.465 --> 00:21:44.835
I, I am on my own journey and running
my own race, but I let some of those

00:21:44.835 --> 00:21:46.264
things sneak in and that's what.

00:21:46.875 --> 00:21:50.235
You know, that's my ego trap personally,
and I get caught in that sometimes,

00:21:50.235 --> 00:21:51.495
and I have to check my cell phone.

00:21:51.495 --> 00:21:51.675
It,

00:21:53.385 --> 00:21:56.205
Travis Bader: well, I guess the
algorithm doesn't really support

00:21:56.385 --> 00:22:01.185
people sitting in a tree stand freezing
cold and, uh, going home  and yeah,

00:22:01.455 --> 00:22:03.405
posting that over and over again.

00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:08.985
I mean, that's, they, so it can build an
unreal expectation for new hunters out

00:22:08.985 --> 00:22:11.775
there based on what people are posting.

00:22:12.345 --> 00:22:18.015
You know, oftentimes we're seen with some
of these influencers, um, it's not always

00:22:18.020 --> 00:22:21.135
their animal that they're standing beside,
and they might not say it's their animal,

00:22:21.255 --> 00:22:23.055
but they're standing beside an animal.

00:22:23.085 --> 00:22:25.635
And people will look at this and
be like, how is this person always

00:22:25.635 --> 00:22:27.105
going out and always successful?

00:22:27.375 --> 00:22:29.805
And maybe they're not taking to
account the fact that they'll hunt

00:22:29.805 --> 00:22:33.435
in groups and one person in a group
of however many was successful and

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.175
everyone had their picture taken there.

00:22:35.175 --> 00:22:39.975
So it's, um, how, how would you,
how would you describe hunting with

00:22:39.975 --> 00:22:43.785
your experience now to somebody
who's looking to get into it?

00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:44.895
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

00:22:44.895 --> 00:22:49.065
And I think that's kind of part of,
you know, was my mission with this

00:22:49.065 --> 00:22:52.725
book because as I talk to people,
you know, just like anybody else,

00:22:52.725 --> 00:22:58.815
like I feel like , you know, you
start CrossFit or you meet somebody

00:22:58.815 --> 00:23:01.575
who just started CrossFit, you know,
they're never gonna shut the fuck up.

00:23:01.635 --> 00:23:03.735
It's CrossFit this,
CrossFit that, you know.

00:23:03.735 --> 00:23:06.165
And same with like
juujitsu, same with hunting.

00:23:06.165 --> 00:23:08.055
And I'm not opposed to that.

00:23:08.055 --> 00:23:13.035
So when I first started hunting and I
took my first animal, everybody within a

00:23:13.035 --> 00:23:17.835
300 foot radius of me at any time of the
day,  was hearing about hunting and the

00:23:17.835 --> 00:23:21.795
benefits and how you're gonna be healthier
and connect with nature and all that shit.

00:23:22.335 --> 00:23:27.015
Um, but to answer that question about
like, what I would say to people is

00:23:27.885 --> 00:23:30.615
I have been getting a lot of feedback
that there are people out there like

00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:33.525
me who are adult onset hunters or.

00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:40.410
people who are curious about learning
to hunt as an adult, but the barriers of

00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:44.700
entry, including like influencers who are
posting these, you know, trophy shots.

00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:47.610
Again, I'm not opposed to that,
but you know, these kind of Sure.

00:23:47.910 --> 00:23:49.140
Success measures.

00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:55.920
You know, I think there's a little bit
of an intimidation factor and what I

00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:00.480
wanted to do was like, it's right to be
intimidated because it is an intimidating

00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:08.400
thing, but to let people know that
unless you're going out with tons of

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.150
guides and paying top dollar, which
is also okay, and I did some of that

00:24:12.150 --> 00:24:13.590
too, to beat down the learning curve.

00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:13.830
Mm-hmm.

00:24:14.415 --> 00:24:19.830
, you're gonna fail, you're gonna
be met with morally compromising

00:24:19.835 --> 00:24:22.530
decisions to make that you might not
have expected getting into hunting.

00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:23.510
Mm-hmm.

00:24:23.590 --> 00:24:27.360
, you're gonna have to get
legitimately elbow deep in an animal

00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:29.370
at some point or another, and.

00:24:29.835 --> 00:24:33.885
Learn as you go and maybe waste meat,
even though, you know, most people getting

00:24:33.885 --> 00:24:35.925
in are like the, you know, wanton waste.

00:24:35.925 --> 00:24:38.985
Like, I want to harvest everything
of the animal, which is great, and I

00:24:38.985 --> 00:24:42.915
do that too, but along the way you're
gonna mess up and you're gonna, you

00:24:42.915 --> 00:24:47.205
know, disrespect an animal in your own
eyes if that's the mentality you have.

00:24:47.835 --> 00:24:52.365
And I want people to know that
you have to go through that.

00:24:53.325 --> 00:24:56.655
You know, it is part of the journey
is that you're gonna have to learn and

00:24:56.655 --> 00:25:02.145
push your boundaries, you know, morally,
physically, in a lot of instances, and

00:25:02.325 --> 00:25:06.885
not to be afraid of that and recognize
that it's not going to necessarily

00:25:06.885 --> 00:25:10.995
match probably what got you interested,
which are the influencers or the

00:25:10.995 --> 00:25:15.695
people who are, you know, celebrity
hunters and things of that nature.

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.320
Travis Bader: Well, when I'm looking at
some of the pictures that you have in

00:25:19.320 --> 00:25:25.950
the book there, I see, uh, vortex optics,
um, Bino pouch, uh, bench made knife, uh,

00:25:26.129 --> 00:25:27.629
and I'm seeing a little bit of a trend.

00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.750
I think I saw some first light
gear in there, and it looks like

00:25:30.750 --> 00:25:33.030
some of your purchasing decisions
may have been influenced by a

00:25:33.030 --> 00:25:35.430
very popular, uh, Netflix show.

00:25:35.430 --> 00:25:35.610
Mer.

00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:36.930
Would that be a fair

00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:37.440
Zach Hanson: assessment?

00:25:38.280 --> 00:25:39.420
Yeah, of course it is.

00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:45.990
I mean, it's, uh, it's part and parcel
and I'm sure like they have doubled down

00:25:45.990 --> 00:25:49.200
and they're making a great killing on
people who are getting curious about it.

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.190
But yeah, I mean, that is mm-hmm.

00:25:51.330 --> 00:25:51.990
purchasing power.

00:25:51.990 --> 00:25:56.790
So one of the things I do in my role now
is ad monetization algorithms, right?

00:25:56.790 --> 00:25:57.360
So, okay.

00:25:57.450 --> 00:26:02.070
Of course, you know, you're paying for
ad space, you're paying for eyeballs of

00:26:02.070 --> 00:26:04.350
people who have similar interests as you.

00:26:04.350 --> 00:26:07.590
And of course, I was fed from
the beginning of my journey,

00:26:07.860 --> 00:26:09.180
you know, Steve Ronella.

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:11.760
Vortex stuff.

00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:16.740
I mean, I've got a vortex optic up
there, you know, I've got freaking

00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.500
knock on releases the whole lot.

00:26:19.505 --> 00:26:19.610
Yeah.

00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:20.970
So it, yeah.

00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:21.130
Yeah.

00:26:21.135 --> 00:26:24.450
It's, it goes with the territory
and I'm not ashamed of that, you

00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:26.070
know, and you get dogs for it too.

00:26:26.075 --> 00:26:27.660
Like, I wear Sitka, right.

00:26:27.870 --> 00:26:31.680
I started hunting at a time where
I was able to afford, you know,

00:26:31.710 --> 00:26:35.520
nice camo and, you know, all the
people that I followed were Sitka.

00:26:35.520 --> 00:26:38.970
I was like, well, monkey c monkey
do, um, I'm gonna buy this.

00:26:38.970 --> 00:26:41.430
So of course you get raed
by people along the way.

00:26:41.430 --> 00:26:42.720
But yeah, it's,

00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:44.820
Travis Bader: I'm not ashamed.

00:26:44.825 --> 00:26:45.490
It's part parcel.

00:26:47.610 --> 00:26:52.439
You know, , uh, talking about, uh, guides.

00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:54.960
Now, I've never hunted with a guide.

00:26:54.990 --> 00:26:58.620
I'm fortunate enough to have a Ballard,
good friend of mine, who's, uh,

00:26:58.649 --> 00:27:02.550
quite accomplished in hunting that
I can, uh, typically lean on for,

00:27:02.550 --> 00:27:05.639
uh, for advice and, uh, assistance.

00:27:05.970 --> 00:27:11.710
Uh, but going the guide route is I
think a fantastic way to shortcut

00:27:11.730 --> 00:27:13.500
a, uh, the learning experience.

00:27:14.100 --> 00:27:19.290
And when you look at, like, for example,
on Sitka advertising, uh, there's quite

00:27:19.290 --> 00:27:24.000
often acknowledgements to the guides who
have taken their pro hunters out hunting.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.510
So e even the pros are out there
doing that if they want to be getting

00:27:27.510 --> 00:27:31.740
that trophy animal or have a success
rate, that's gonna be something they

00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.899
can blog about or Instagram about.

00:27:34.770 --> 00:27:39.629
But you went out with in your book with
some guides, and I had a very couple

00:27:39.635 --> 00:27:44.250
of humbling experiences, and if you are
willing to talk about that outside of the

00:27:44.250 --> 00:27:46.080
book here, I'd love to chat about that.

00:27:46.950 --> 00:27:47.280
. 
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

00:27:47.285 --> 00:27:51.450
So, uh, you know, guides are not
something that I had on my agenda, right?

00:27:51.455 --> 00:27:57.390
Like for me when I started,
like it was my in-laws who quote

00:27:57.390 --> 00:27:59.100
guided me out of the gate, right?

00:27:59.100 --> 00:28:03.720
So these are the guys in touching back
on the Sitka and the stuff I had, like

00:28:05.070 --> 00:28:09.690
when I started hunting and the first
time I went deer hunting on my in-laws,

00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:14.130
uh, hunting lease, you know, it got
muted chuckles because my buddy and

00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:16.920
I showed up in brand new sit ca camo.

00:28:17.130 --> 00:28:21.570
Meanwhile, you know, we've never killed an
animal and my father-in-law who's probably

00:28:21.630 --> 00:28:25.800
killed more deer than I ever will in my
life, you know, sitting there in Walmart,

00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:29.520
camo like, okay, Walmart camo and jeans.

00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:32.670
He's like, I don't get it, but you
know, you guys do you spend the

00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:36.510
money on what you wanna spend your
money on ? Um, but he was in, for all

00:28:36.510 --> 00:28:38.040
intents and purposes, my first guide.

00:28:38.040 --> 00:28:40.710
So I can't say that I never did
guided hunting, and I feel like

00:28:40.710 --> 00:28:45.870
most people do unless you go the
full DIY solo route and good on you.

00:28:46.845 --> 00:28:49.815
But when I moved out to Idaho and,
you know, little foreshadowing for

00:28:49.815 --> 00:28:54.645
people, I've talked about my ex-wife,
um, a little bit after my journey,

00:28:54.705 --> 00:28:56.055
we ended up getting a divorce.

00:28:56.235 --> 00:28:59.625
Pretty amicable, but I was left
at this crossroads where I was

00:28:59.625 --> 00:29:00.615
like, what do I want to do?

00:29:00.615 --> 00:29:01.665
Where can I go?

00:29:01.665 --> 00:29:02.805
We, I had no children.

00:29:03.245 --> 00:29:04.875
The, the opportunities were endless.

00:29:04.875 --> 00:29:08.235
And I had visited Idaho and
I knew I wanted to hunt elk,

00:29:08.235 --> 00:29:09.255
I wanted to hunt antelope.

00:29:09.255 --> 00:29:10.635
I wanted to learn to trap.

00:29:10.995 --> 00:29:15.045
So I was like, well, you know, this
unexpected event happened in my life, so

00:29:15.045 --> 00:29:18.585
I'm just gonna pack up my car and drive
to Idaho, which is exactly what I did.

00:29:19.035 --> 00:29:19.515
Um, mm-hmm.

00:29:20.055 --> 00:29:22.875
got out there, found a place in
the, in the mountains way, way back,

00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.935
you know, our place opens up to
3000 acres of national forest land.

00:29:26.415 --> 00:29:30.015
And I was like, how am I
gonna learn to hunt elk?

00:29:30.285 --> 00:29:33.795
You know, I, I've only sat in a
tree, stand for some pigs and deer.

00:29:34.155 --> 00:29:37.425
I can't bugle, I can now pretty
good too, if I might add.

00:29:37.485 --> 00:29:37.545
Yeah.

00:29:37.605 --> 00:29:42.645
But I couldn't bugle, I, I, I
didn't know how to do anything

00:29:42.675 --> 00:29:45.165
outside of hiking and that.

00:29:45.170 --> 00:29:47.385
I sucked at that pretty good
when I got up to Elevation.

00:29:47.385 --> 00:29:54.855
It turns out, um,  and, you know, I
decided, you know, I had the means

00:29:55.275 --> 00:29:58.635
that I wanted to go with a guide to
take me on my first archery Alcon.

00:29:58.665 --> 00:29:59.625
So I, yeah.

00:29:59.975 --> 00:30:00.095
Hmm.

00:30:00.225 --> 00:30:03.285
So also another foreshadowing
that I have a new company that

00:30:03.290 --> 00:30:06.705
is launching at the Western Hunt
Expo called the outfitter.guide.

00:30:07.005 --> 00:30:11.715
Um, but it's kind of based on my own
personal experience, which was I went

00:30:11.715 --> 00:30:16.125
to Google, I got dumped in the lap of
a bunch of, you know, top of the funnel

00:30:16.125 --> 00:30:19.335
companies like book your hunt.com, all
of which do a great job where you can

00:30:19.335 --> 00:30:22.875
pick like an animal species, state,
whatever, and they'll give you a list

00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:24.615
of guides, but that's where they cut.

00:30:25.544 --> 00:30:29.264
And with that I found a
guide in Stanley, Idaho.

00:30:29.264 --> 00:30:32.895
He's like, yep, I've got a
one-on-one archery opening in, you

00:30:32.895 --> 00:30:34.875
know, eight months for September.

00:30:35.145 --> 00:30:40.094
You know, send me half of the deposit
or send me half of the whole price

00:30:40.094 --> 00:30:41.355
of the hunt, which was expensive.

00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:43.995
You know, it's close to
six grand for a seven day.

00:30:43.995 --> 00:30:44.365
Yeah.

00:30:44.625 --> 00:30:47.294
You know, horseback in wall, tent hunt.

00:30:47.745 --> 00:30:48.355
Mm-hmm.

00:30:48.435 --> 00:30:53.084
to my PO box in a state, three
states away in Arizona and

00:30:53.084 --> 00:30:54.014
I'll see you in eight months.

00:30:54.675 --> 00:30:55.064
. So.

00:30:55.064 --> 00:30:55.425
Right.

00:30:55.425 --> 00:30:56.895
You know, I thought I was getting scammed.

00:30:56.955 --> 00:30:57.824
I'm like, well, fuck it.

00:30:57.830 --> 00:30:59.054
Like, let's, let's do this.

00:30:59.054 --> 00:30:59.925
So I sent the check.

00:30:59.925 --> 00:31:00.014
Yeah.

00:31:00.044 --> 00:31:00.764
It cleared.

00:31:01.155 --> 00:31:03.615
And for those eight months I was
just kind of left scratching my head.

00:31:03.615 --> 00:31:06.824
Like, I'd email occasionally and he'd
be like, I'm sorry, I'm on my combine.

00:31:06.824 --> 00:31:07.395
Fuck off.

00:31:07.695 --> 00:31:10.485
Um, you know, I want to be
doing these other things.

00:31:10.485 --> 00:31:11.925
Typical, important.

00:31:12.165 --> 00:31:12.435
Yeah.

00:31:12.435 --> 00:31:13.155
Typical guide.

00:31:13.155 --> 00:31:13.314
Mm-hmm.

00:31:13.395 --> 00:31:13.435
. Right.

00:31:13.435 --> 00:31:14.804
They wanna be doing other stuff.

00:31:16.230 --> 00:31:16.890
customer management.

00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:17.730
Right.

00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:21.420
Meanwhile, I was talking to my now
wife and I'm like, man, I don't

00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:22.710
even know if I'm gonna get fed.

00:31:22.710 --> 00:31:26.700
And so when the time of the hunt came
around eight months later, I was praying

00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:30.300
that the 10 cliff bars she packed me, you
know, would last me the seven days if I

00:31:30.305 --> 00:31:35.590
didn't get food . But, you know, I ended
up going out there, you know, my asses

00:31:35.595 --> 00:31:38.820
sore from riding a horse for the first
time in 10 years into the back country.

00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:42.600
And that experience with a guide
just beat down that learning curve.

00:31:42.600 --> 00:31:44.280
Like I was like that annoying kid.

00:31:44.280 --> 00:31:45.390
I'm sure they hated me.

00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:46.920
I was like, why did we do this?

00:31:47.010 --> 00:31:50.220
Why did we stop here, , what does
that, you know, all of that stuff.

00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:53.100
And ultimately didn't harvest
an animal the first year.

00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:54.870
You know, I missed twice.

00:31:55.050 --> 00:31:56.280
So go figure.

00:31:56.580 --> 00:32:00.120
And, uh, you know, it is what it
is and you're devastated and you

00:32:00.120 --> 00:32:04.020
go through those normal emotions,
but it helped, so, you know.

00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:04.380
Mm.

00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.230
That experience with guiding.

00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:12.120
Speed down that learning curve so sharply
and I did it again the next year, um,

00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:16.560
with the same guy went to a slightly
different area, um, but same story, you

00:32:16.560 --> 00:32:19.710
know, didn't end up harvesting an animal,
you know, weather and everything else.

00:32:20.010 --> 00:32:22.620
And then this past year I went
and did my own d i y up in West

00:32:22.625 --> 00:32:26.180
Yellowstone, you know, was calling
elk in myself, doing the whole lot.

00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.540
So, you know, it was, you know, from
start to finish on my elk hunting

00:32:30.540 --> 00:32:34.410
journey with archery, you know,
two years with a guide to now doing

00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:36.780
two years d i y with some success.

00:32:36.780 --> 00:32:38.129
It's, it was worth

00:32:38.129 --> 00:32:39.810
Travis Bader: it, right?

00:32:40.890 --> 00:32:41.160
Yeah.

00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:45.600
The, the range of emotions that
go through on a miss, I mean, at

00:32:45.600 --> 00:32:47.160
least was a clean mess, right?

00:32:47.340 --> 00:32:47.490
Yeah.

00:32:47.550 --> 00:32:50.670
But those reigns of emotions
that go through are.

00:32:51.735 --> 00:32:53.415
, uh, or something to behold.

00:32:53.415 --> 00:32:57.405
And there's a mental management
process that a person has to work

00:32:57.405 --> 00:32:59.145
through in order to get themselves up.

00:32:59.150 --> 00:33:03.105
And there's a feeling of possible
humiliation of what are other

00:33:03.110 --> 00:33:04.335
people gonna think of me?

00:33:04.335 --> 00:33:08.715
And, uh, man, I spent all of this money
and the pressure is on and I totally

00:33:08.715 --> 00:33:12.465
jammed and all, all of these other
feelings, I'm sure , that you must

00:33:12.465 --> 00:33:13.635
have been going through your head.

00:33:14.295 --> 00:33:16.095
H how did you deal with that?

00:33:16.845 --> 00:33:17.235
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

00:33:17.265 --> 00:33:18.435
Well, it's funny you say that.

00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:22.815
Like, you know, I didn't have an
Instagram, you know, I wasn't like

00:33:22.815 --> 00:33:27.525
active on social media, so I didn't
have that added pressure to be like,

00:33:27.525 --> 00:33:30.645
Hey guys, I'm going on this guided
hunt, you know, look at me, do this.

00:33:30.735 --> 00:33:32.085
Oh, I miss.

00:33:32.085 --> 00:33:35.745
So I, I, I feel for people who
are very active there or like

00:33:35.745 --> 00:33:38.265
put it out to the universe like
they're going to do this thing.

00:33:38.270 --> 00:33:43.455
But you know, even in my close bubble,
you know, that I did put it out there.

00:33:43.455 --> 00:33:44.475
So my family's like, what?

00:33:44.475 --> 00:33:46.965
You're spending what
to go where to do what?

00:33:46.965 --> 00:33:46.995
Mm.

00:33:47.445 --> 00:33:50.265
And then I come back, you know,
they, people who don't hunt.

00:33:50.970 --> 00:33:55.199
, you know, a lot of times have
this mentality like, oh, you just

00:33:55.199 --> 00:33:56.490
go out and you shoot an animal.

00:33:56.550 --> 00:34:00.629
You know that it is not this big
involved thing that takes patience,

00:34:00.629 --> 00:34:04.209
skill, and, you know, name all the
other adjectives you want to mm-hmm.

00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:09.150
and you know that the likelihood
of, you know, missing an animal

00:34:09.150 --> 00:34:10.590
is way higher than success.

00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:14.580
Like, I think the area we were in for
archery had like a 13% success rate.

00:34:14.790 --> 00:34:19.440
You know, so you're paying money, uh,
to learn more than you're paying money

00:34:19.444 --> 00:34:21.120
to successfully harvest an animal.

00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:23.699
That was my viewpoint, but other
people didn't see that way.

00:34:24.210 --> 00:34:27.770
So I did have those emotions
after missing that elk of.

00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:30.540
You know, embarrassment, right?

00:34:30.540 --> 00:34:31.110
Yeah, sure.

00:34:31.139 --> 00:34:35.429
I dreaded going home to my, you know,
now wife to be like, oh, hey honey,

00:34:35.580 --> 00:34:38.639
you know all that money we spent, uh,
and I promise you I was gonna make

00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.290
you this beautiful elk steak dinner.

00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:40.800
Yeah.

00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:41.850
That's not gonna happen.

00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:45.030
Um, you know, my family, the ones who
were already thinking I was, you know,

00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:49.920
loony for spending that amount of money,
they're like, well, you're still loony.

00:34:49.949 --> 00:34:51.240
You still have some screws loose.

00:34:51.270 --> 00:34:55.830
That's confirmed . And you know, of course
if you have a good friend group, which I

00:34:55.835 --> 00:34:59.160
do have a very close, tight knit group of
friends, some who want, some who don't,

00:34:59.310 --> 00:35:01.410
I'm still getting ribbed to this day.

00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:03.210
So, you know, it is,

00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:04.800
Travis Bader: well, that's what

00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.580
Zach Hanson: friends do, right?

00:35:06.390 --> 00:35:06.660
Yeah.

00:35:06.810 --> 00:35:09.900
Well, you know, it's funny, I'm in a
group chat with some buddies, um, who

00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:15.270
don't necessarily hunt, but you know,
it goes without fail like once a week.

00:35:15.270 --> 00:35:17.370
It's like, oh, Zach, are
you out observing elk again?

00:35:17.375 --> 00:35:18.750
Or, you know, something to that effect.

00:35:18.870 --> 00:35:20.460
so lives to this day.

00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:24.690
But, you know, it helps like that kind of
humor that, you know, self depreciation.

00:35:24.720 --> 00:35:27.420
And for me it was coming to terms with.

00:35:28.515 --> 00:35:30.135
It is a lifelong pursuit.

00:35:30.225 --> 00:35:33.855
And yes, I'm making up for lost time
because I didn't start as a young kid,

00:35:34.335 --> 00:35:39.525
but it's a journey and it's not one after
you have a few experiences that you can

00:35:39.530 --> 00:35:44.295
expect to just master, like it is time
out in the woods, it's, you know, those

00:35:44.295 --> 00:35:46.005
missed shots, that morality bending.

00:35:46.010 --> 00:35:48.405
I talked about like when I got
into trapping, like when you get

00:35:48.405 --> 00:35:51.495
into situations where you have
to make tough decisions, those

00:35:51.500 --> 00:35:53.315
don't come from a book or YouTube.

00:35:53.625 --> 00:35:54.885
It comes from time in the field.

00:35:54.885 --> 00:35:58.545
And yes, there are shortcuts, guides,
you know, mentors, things like that.

00:35:58.545 --> 00:36:03.405
But ultimately it's being out there and
that's what I had to come to terms with

00:36:03.405 --> 00:36:07.995
and coach myself up on to get over those,
you know, really emotional misses and,

00:36:08.265 --> 00:36:10.335
you know, failures and disappointments.

00:36:11.970 --> 00:36:14.130
Travis Bader: You know, I guess,
and you call it a failure.

00:36:14.430 --> 00:36:15.420
Well, a few things you brought up.

00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:18.150
When you talk with the social media
people and the pressure that they must

00:36:18.150 --> 00:36:21.600
feel advertising to go on a hunt, I
think a lot of them just advertise

00:36:21.605 --> 00:36:23.010
afterwards if they're successful.

00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:26.400
And they'll just post a little bit
after, Hey, going on this hunt and

00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:28.440
here's this, and hey, great success.

00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:35.520
And if it, but, um, then, you know,
people say, oh, my, my hunt was a failure.

00:36:35.610 --> 00:36:36.180
Well, how come?

00:36:36.185 --> 00:36:37.500
Well, I didn't get an animal.

00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:41.460
Well, maybe from somebody starting
out into hunting, and that's looked

00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:42.930
at the ultimate result there.

00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:46.590
I wouldn't say that that's,
that's a failure Personally.

00:36:46.950 --> 00:36:50.880
How, how would you define
success for yourself on a hunt?

00:36:51.660 --> 00:36:51.840
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:56.130
I mean, you're a hundred percent
right and you know, all of those

00:36:56.130 --> 00:36:57.270
hunts, let me put it this way.

00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.990
Every hunt I've been on, which a
lot of them have been failures.

00:37:00.990 --> 00:37:03.390
Failures in the sense of
not harvesting an animal.

00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:04.930
Um, sure.

00:37:05.595 --> 00:37:10.005
But every single one of them, I have
learned an absurd amount, either about

00:37:10.005 --> 00:37:15.465
myself, about the animal, or about what
not to do, , which that I can apply

00:37:15.555 --> 00:37:19.925
for the next hunt on, you know, what
to try not to replicate, um mm-hmm.

00:37:20.375 --> 00:37:21.975
So, you know, failure,

00:37:26.295 --> 00:37:30.525
failure might not be the right
word because I did learn, I just

00:37:30.525 --> 00:37:32.055
failed in harvesting an animal.

00:37:32.325 --> 00:37:33.105
Um, right.

00:37:33.135 --> 00:37:34.995
Which, you know, is ultimately the goal.

00:37:35.055 --> 00:37:38.715
But I don't sit and beat myself
up saying, Hey, Zach, you failed.

00:37:38.715 --> 00:37:40.245
You suck, blah, blah, blah.

00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:43.350
But I did fail at harvesting an animal,
and I'm pretty damn good at that

00:37:43.925 --> 00:37:47.280
Uh, so I'm just trying to get
used to saying those words.

00:37:49.590 --> 00:37:53.400
. 
Travis Bader: Well, one piece that I'm
really curious about be, and I think

00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.960
a lot of other people would be, is
that little bit of a piece in between

00:37:58.200 --> 00:38:01.230
city life and living out in the woods.

00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:05.940
And I, you've discussed there's a
little, perhaps some of the impetus

00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:11.490
was, um, the life-changing event of the
separation from your, from your ex-wife.

00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:17.550
And, but it seems like to me anyways, when
I read through the book that that wasn't

00:38:17.580 --> 00:38:21.840
the piece that pushed you to want to go
out and write a book and live in the bush.

00:38:21.845 --> 00:38:24.480
It seems like there's something that was
always kind of sitting in the back of

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.640
your head, maybe dormant for a while,
and something happened in you that

00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:31.500
made you decide to jump in head first.

00:38:31.505 --> 00:38:34.230
And I think a lot of people are
fearful of doing what you've,

00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:35.910
what you've successfully done.

00:38:36.060 --> 00:38:37.760
So I'm curious about
that little piece there.

00:38:38.715 --> 00:38:39.045
. 
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

00:38:39.105 --> 00:38:39.884
It, it is funny.

00:38:39.884 --> 00:38:44.505
We, so when I wrote this book, I
worked with, uh, a company called

00:38:44.505 --> 00:38:46.365
Scribe Media down in Austin.

00:38:46.665 --> 00:38:48.645
Uh, it was co-founded by Tucker Max.

00:38:48.645 --> 00:38:49.755
I don't know if you know who he is.

00:38:49.755 --> 00:38:51.465
He's a New York Times bestselling author.

00:38:51.465 --> 00:38:53.535
He wrote the books, I hope
they serve beer in hell.

00:38:53.685 --> 00:38:56.025
Kind of like the misogynistic, uh, yeah.

00:38:56.025 --> 00:38:57.645
Stories of his time in law school.

00:38:57.675 --> 00:39:00.884
He's changed a lot, but he's very
much on the sustainability track now.

00:39:00.884 --> 00:39:05.925
He has a farm, kids, you know, harvesting
his own bison and, you know, gr like

00:39:06.045 --> 00:39:07.575
raising bees, all sorts of stuff.

00:39:07.785 --> 00:39:08.955
But he is an amazing writer.

00:39:09.345 --> 00:39:12.825
So when I went down and was working
with them, kind of on the synopsis of

00:39:12.825 --> 00:39:17.205
the book, talking about the intros,
you know, part of the exercise,

00:39:17.205 --> 00:39:18.705
like, who are you writing this for?

00:39:19.185 --> 00:39:22.155
You know, what, what is the persona of
the person that you're writing it for?

00:39:22.695 --> 00:39:27.825
And when it gets down to it,
I wrote out this persona and

00:39:27.830 --> 00:39:29.355
I realized that when I wrote.

00:39:30.089 --> 00:39:32.865
that it was me, which
makes total sense, right?

00:39:32.865 --> 00:39:33.615
It was me.

00:39:33.765 --> 00:39:33.915
Yep.

00:39:33.915 --> 00:39:35.504
You know, five, six years ago.

00:39:35.895 --> 00:39:40.725
But it was like for that middle management
man or woman, right, who is working

00:39:40.725 --> 00:39:46.904
a corporate job droning away and they
start to daydream occasionally and

00:39:46.910 --> 00:39:50.895
obviously bolster through the pandemic
about, you know, okay, let's just

00:39:50.895 --> 00:39:53.865
hypothetically say everything breaks down.

00:39:53.924 --> 00:39:56.024
Or, you know, I can't go by toilet paper.

00:39:56.384 --> 00:39:58.004
There's no meat on the shelves.

00:40:00.225 --> 00:40:01.035
What would happen?

00:40:02.205 --> 00:40:04.605
And you know, it was one of those
things where in the persona I

00:40:04.605 --> 00:40:06.134
talked about it and this was me.

00:40:06.555 --> 00:40:09.134
I always came up with excuses,
like, oh, I'd figure it out.

00:40:09.225 --> 00:40:10.245
Oh, I'd do this.

00:40:10.875 --> 00:40:15.645
But the reality is, if you take away that
ego, these are the readers who would sit

00:40:15.645 --> 00:40:17.685
there and be like, oh shit, my kids would.

00:40:19.109 --> 00:40:21.810
Yeah, I literally don't know
how to process an animal.

00:40:21.810 --> 00:40:26.880
Like even if I hit a deer with my car,
I'd be throwing it whole on a fire and

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:31.680
hoping there'd be something to salvage,
you know, to, to nibble on and Right.

00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:33.750
That's the reality.

00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:36.990
And that's the reality I was
living in between those stages.

00:40:36.990 --> 00:40:39.480
Like I had this dormant ember, right?

00:40:39.569 --> 00:40:42.150
That, um, I always loved
mountain man's stories.

00:40:42.150 --> 00:40:44.790
As a kid I always thought
about living out in the woods.

00:40:45.029 --> 00:40:48.750
Um, I talk about in the book, like
before the divorce happened, my wife

00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:53.759
and I happened to take a chance trip
to Idaho, um, on one of our vacations.

00:40:53.765 --> 00:40:54.540
And it hooked me.

00:40:54.569 --> 00:40:57.720
I saw all these animals and I was looking
at her, this was pre hunting, and I

00:40:57.720 --> 00:40:59.670
was like, we're moving here one day.

00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:02.430
And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
maybe 20 years when we retire,

00:41:02.435 --> 00:41:04.230
we'll buy a cabin or whatever.

00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:05.670
And I was like, no, you don't understand.

00:41:05.670 --> 00:41:07.799
Like, I feel physically called here.

00:41:08.160 --> 00:41:14.730
Um, because I saw the opportunity to
learn and that experience coupled with

00:41:14.819 --> 00:41:16.770
the true feelings I had underlying.

00:41:17.270 --> 00:41:19.950
knowing that if something broke,
and I didn't have kids at the

00:41:19.950 --> 00:41:23.700
time, and that's more personal to
me now with two kids, but Right.

00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:27.210
I, I wouldn't have been
able to support my wife.

00:41:27.270 --> 00:41:29.940
I wouldn't have been able to support
kids had I had 'em, like we literally

00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:33.600
would've starved to death eventually,
or, you know, had to join some, you

00:41:33.600 --> 00:41:36.690
know, walking Dead type commune and
hope for the best and hope that people

00:41:36.690 --> 00:41:40.770
who are, you know, a little bit more
in tune with Earth would be able to

00:41:40.770 --> 00:41:42.480
help provide us food or teach us.

00:41:42.750 --> 00:41:46.650
But you know, that time, you
know, the time to learn is not

00:41:46.650 --> 00:41:48.540
when you know shit hits the fan.

00:41:48.810 --> 00:41:52.799
It's to take that proactive, that's
what, you know, push me over the

00:41:52.799 --> 00:41:54.630
edge to start before the divorce.

00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:58.350
And then, like you said, that catalytic
event in my life just happened to be

00:41:58.350 --> 00:41:59.790
the point where I just went all in.

00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:02.610
Travis Bader: Were you nervous about that?

00:42:02.610 --> 00:42:04.319
Like, what if I go out there and.

00:42:06.029 --> 00:42:07.529
I'm making a terrible decision.

00:42:07.890 --> 00:42:09.359
Like I'm, I'm escaping away.

00:42:09.359 --> 00:42:13.799
Like, did, did you have a large friend
group in, uh, Louisiana where you're

00:42:13.799 --> 00:42:16.649
from a bunch of people that you would
interact on a daily basis and were

00:42:16.649 --> 00:42:23.100
concerned about a population of 35
and in Atlanta, Idaho there was, were

00:42:23.100 --> 00:42:24.419
these things kind of in your head

00:42:25.319 --> 00:42:26.009
Zach Hanson: a little bit?

00:42:26.015 --> 00:42:30.509
You know, we had a really tight
group with our Jiujitsu gym.

00:42:30.629 --> 00:42:30.930
Right.

00:42:30.930 --> 00:42:32.669
I mean, those were the people
we did everything with.

00:42:32.669 --> 00:42:36.089
We were traveling all the time, so, you
know, yeah, there was concern there and

00:42:36.089 --> 00:42:37.440
I was definitely gonna miss those folks.

00:42:37.444 --> 00:42:41.790
But there was also a little bit of,
you know, If anyone's been through

00:42:41.790 --> 00:42:45.690
a divorce, you'll know this feeling
like I did just want to get away.

00:42:45.750 --> 00:42:47.940
I didn't want people to be
giving me advice like, oh,

00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:49.950
Zach, you know, it's okay.

00:42:50.070 --> 00:42:50.340
You did.

00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:51.930
I just wanted to tell people to f off.

00:42:51.930 --> 00:42:52.920
Like I just wanted to go.

00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:53.190
Right.

00:42:53.250 --> 00:42:55.260
You know, people wanna say like,
I just wanna go hide in the woods.

00:42:55.290 --> 00:42:56.430
So I did mm-hmm.

00:42:56.670 --> 00:42:59.640
. So yeah, I didn't have have
that fear at the outset.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.900
Um, but when I got out there and I
realized I had no idea what the hell

00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:06.960
I was doing, and I talk about it in
the book, like, I didn't know how to

00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:11.730
start a fire in my wood burning stove,
and it gets down to like ne Yeah.

00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.150
You know, we'll get down to
like negative 18 sometimes.

00:43:15.155 --> 00:43:18.330
So, you know, I'm sitting there
jack hammering, freezing in my room,

00:43:18.330 --> 00:43:21.420
wondering why my fire's not working
and I just don't have the flu open.

00:43:21.870 --> 00:43:22.170
Right.

00:43:22.170 --> 00:43:22.230
Yeah.

00:43:22.230 --> 00:43:26.130
So it was when I got there that I
was learning all those hard lessons.

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:28.560
Like, like did I get in over my head?

00:43:28.560 --> 00:43:33.420
Like, did I make this impulse decision
to just change everything in my life?

00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:37.560
And, you know, thankfully I
had to stick with it , um, for

00:43:37.560 --> 00:43:38.670
a lot of different reasons.

00:43:38.670 --> 00:43:41.250
And, you know, Obviously came
out on the other end, learning

00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:42.629
a lot and still learning a lot,

00:43:42.810 --> 00:43:44.580
Travis Bader: but nope, no kidding.

00:43:44.700 --> 00:43:46.319
Well, Idaho sounds like a great place.

00:43:46.319 --> 00:43:47.669
Good friend of mine, Carl Fox.

00:43:47.674 --> 00:43:53.250
He's, uh, from Idaho, lives up here in
Canada and he's always going on about it.

00:43:53.549 --> 00:43:57.029
And, uh, you know, I think maybe in
the next month or so, I'm probably

00:43:57.035 --> 00:44:00.029
gonna head down there and just
check it out just so I get a bitter

00:44:00.029 --> 00:44:01.379
idea of what this is all about.

00:44:01.410 --> 00:44:03.240
Uh, Brad Brookfields or Galley?

00:44:03.779 --> 00:44:04.080
What's that?

00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:04.620
Zach Hanson: Whereabouts.

00:44:04.890 --> 00:44:06.029
Whereabouts in Idaho?

00:44:06.509 --> 00:44:06.959
Travis Bader: Boise.

00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:08.669
So probably very different from where

00:44:08.674 --> 00:44:09.120
Zach Hanson: you're at.

00:44:09.689 --> 00:44:10.049
Well, no.

00:44:10.055 --> 00:44:11.129
So, you know, it's funny.

00:44:12.660 --> 00:44:14.310
We actually have a place in Boise now.

00:44:14.310 --> 00:44:19.230
So it's funny about, um, you know,
we live full-time up in Atlanta,

00:44:19.230 --> 00:44:21.300
Idaho, which is the town of 35 people.

00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:23.550
But you know, we're kind
of on this arc, right?

00:44:23.580 --> 00:44:27.570
Like my wife and I and our two kids,
we've been living the mountain life,

00:44:27.575 --> 00:44:29.070
but you know, with two infants, right?

00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:31.560
We're having more and more
doctor's appointments.

00:44:31.565 --> 00:44:35.070
So we ended up getting a place in
Boise for, you know, a small place

00:44:35.070 --> 00:44:38.520
just so we could have a landing
spot when the roads avalanche in,

00:44:38.520 --> 00:44:42.330
or rock slid in, uh, which happens
quite a bit and happened last week.

00:44:42.630 --> 00:44:46.950
So, you know, Boise's our low, our
closest metropolitan area, so mm-hmm.

00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.185
. Uh, the reason I say that is if you're
in Boise, We're just a cool three hour

00:44:52.185 --> 00:44:54.915
four-wheel drive, uh, ride up the road.

00:44:54.915 --> 00:44:58.065
So if you want to come stop by and check
out Atlanta, Idaho, you totally should.

00:44:58.065 --> 00:44:58.575
Cause it's best.

00:44:58.575 --> 00:44:58.775
It,

00:44:58.775 --> 00:45:00.134
Travis Bader: it's three
hours and 40 minutes.

00:45:00.645 --> 00:45:01.964
I think it was three hours and 40 minutes.

00:45:01.964 --> 00:45:03.105
Cause I actually checked it out.

00:45:03.555 --> 00:45:04.214
I, um, okay.

00:45:04.220 --> 00:45:07.305
I might actually come out to the, uh, to
the area just so I have an understanding

00:45:07.305 --> 00:45:08.984
of where it is that you're from and, uh,

00:45:09.254 --> 00:45:09.464
Zach Hanson: okay.

00:45:09.470 --> 00:45:11.535
Well we do not follow Google Maps.

00:45:11.535 --> 00:45:14.535
Talk to me first because Google
Maps will lead you astray.

00:45:14.895 --> 00:45:18.075
Uh, which it did for me the first time
that I went out to look for the hou at the

00:45:18.080 --> 00:45:20.775
house that I ended up buying in winter.

00:45:20.984 --> 00:45:25.245
It took me about 280 miles the wrong
way to a road that was a avalanche in.

00:45:25.375 --> 00:45:31.035
I had to turn around and make the six hour
journey back just to, uh, go check it out.

00:45:31.040 --> 00:45:31.424
So,

00:45:32.205 --> 00:45:32.685
Travis Bader: yeah.

00:45:32.745 --> 00:45:34.305
Yeah, it's always fun watching those maps.

00:45:34.305 --> 00:45:37.214
I remember we were in Greece
and we had a place there and.

00:45:38.190 --> 00:45:43.950
Spent a couple months over in Sco Pelos
and uh, the maps would take everybody

00:45:43.950 --> 00:45:47.310
down, some old abandoned road and we're
like, okay, let's see how far these people

00:45:47.315 --> 00:45:50.790
get, because it just gets narrower and
narrower on super steep cliff sides.

00:45:50.790 --> 00:45:55.620
And yeah, having the wherewithal to
question technology such as Google or

00:45:55.625 --> 00:45:59.670
artificial intelligence, I think is
a, uh, a good life skill for people to

00:45:59.670 --> 00:45:59.790
Zach Hanson: have

00:46:00.600 --> 00:46:03.450
Yeah, when we all need to
continue to, uh, refine.

00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:04.680
Yeah.

00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:08.220
Travis Bader: Well, I, I really
like the fact that, you know,

00:46:09.150 --> 00:46:11.250
that you just figured it out.

00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:16.830
I was having dinner with a friend a couple
weeks ago and uh, he's got a sailboat

00:46:16.830 --> 00:46:18.299
and I said, oh, he picked up a sail.

00:46:18.299 --> 00:46:19.290
I didn't know you knew how to sail.

00:46:19.290 --> 00:46:22.620
He's like, Travis, it's a
sheet and it catches a wind.

00:46:22.680 --> 00:46:23.670
Anybody can sail.

00:46:23.940 --> 00:46:24.210
Right?

00:46:24.930 --> 00:46:25.620
I said, huh?

00:46:26.009 --> 00:46:28.920
He said, I mean, there's, I'm sure
a lot more to it, but I mean, you

00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.980
just keep zigzagging yourself over
if you gotta go into the wind.

00:46:32.009 --> 00:46:35.940
But, you know, anyone can sail
a boat at the base level of it.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.339
And so now that's something
that we use in our household.

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.430
Uh, Jason, if you're, listen,
anyone can sail a boat.

00:46:42.240 --> 00:46:42.900
I like it.

00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.620
Anyone can purchase a
compound bow and go hunting.

00:46:46.710 --> 00:46:48.180
Yes, there's a lot to it.

00:46:48.185 --> 00:46:50.339
But you didn't let that dissuade you.

00:46:50.910 --> 00:46:55.740
Uh, what, out of the different
ventures, cuz you talk about

00:46:55.740 --> 00:47:00.930
hunting and trapping, which ones
presented the biggest challenge for

00:47:00.930 --> 00:47:01.230
Zach Hanson: you?

00:47:02.895 --> 00:47:05.325
, um, without a doubt trapping.

00:47:05.655 --> 00:47:09.915
You know, it's, yeah, I, I would say that
it's the thing that I've taken the most

00:47:09.915 --> 00:47:14.895
to, but it's also the thing that's been
the most difficult, um, you know, for

00:47:14.895 --> 00:47:19.755
anybody who's ever set a foothold trap as
an adult for the first time with a little.

00:47:19.995 --> 00:47:24.195
So for people who don't know, think
about a regular trap, two metal jaws,

00:47:24.884 --> 00:47:27.345
really tight coil springs of steel.

00:47:27.615 --> 00:47:30.285
You crank 'em down, get 'em flat,
and there's this little pan that you

00:47:30.290 --> 00:47:35.085
set under a little lip of metal and
you're playing with this thing that

00:47:35.085 --> 00:47:37.155
is meant to hold a very angry animal.

00:47:37.755 --> 00:47:41.655
And, you know, when you set
it, it's nerve-wracking because

00:47:41.685 --> 00:47:43.725
inevitably you will trap yourself.

00:47:43.905 --> 00:47:46.605
And I did have many times over.

00:47:46.845 --> 00:47:48.945
Um, obviously they're non-lethal.

00:47:48.945 --> 00:47:50.565
They hurt in a lot of cases.

00:47:50.775 --> 00:47:50.805
Mm.

00:47:50.895 --> 00:47:54.465
Uh, but you know, that
barrier of entry to do that.

00:47:54.465 --> 00:47:55.275
And then the.

00:47:56.580 --> 00:48:00.960
, the amount of study and the amount
of intricacy that goes into trapping

00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.850
any animal, especially canines.

00:48:02.850 --> 00:48:05.129
I've found out, like I said,
they're way smarter than me.

00:48:05.430 --> 00:48:12.750
Uh,  is difficult, but actually
pursuing, trapping, you know, learning

00:48:12.750 --> 00:48:17.400
to actually talk about leveraging the
whole animal, you know, taking the

00:48:17.404 --> 00:48:22.830
fur, um, for beaver, like lettering the
tail, pulling out the glands because

00:48:22.830 --> 00:48:26.580
you want to use 'em again in other
lores and bates that you might be using.

00:48:26.640 --> 00:48:29.940
It is an exercise in using the
whole animal when you do get one.

00:48:30.220 --> 00:48:30.830
Mm-hmm.

00:48:30.835 --> 00:48:33.900
And you become way better at like,
taping stuff out and, you know,

00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:37.440
butchering because you get to do it
a lot, you get a lot more reps in.

00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:41.879
But I think that it's made me a
better, like archery hunter just

00:48:41.879 --> 00:48:43.589
because of the study that goes into it.

00:48:43.589 --> 00:48:46.500
And, you know, that includes
Beaver Otter, Martin.

00:48:46.650 --> 00:48:49.740
There's just so many different
animals that you get a really, you

00:48:49.740 --> 00:48:51.900
get like a PhD more quickly or an b.

00:48:52.875 --> 00:48:56.504
an animal husbandry, just because you're
out there all the time and you get to

00:48:56.504 --> 00:49:00.734
see tracks, you get to understand what
they're doing in different scenarios.

00:49:00.734 --> 00:49:03.674
Like if you walk in a different way,
what are they gonna react if you

00:49:04.004 --> 00:49:07.035
don't dissent your traps well enough,
are they gonna do something and

00:49:07.035 --> 00:49:08.625
pee on your pan and embarrass you?

00:49:08.984 --> 00:49:09.464
Um,

00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:11.745
Travis Bader: like, like what
happened with the fox, right?

00:49:12.105 --> 00:49:12.375
I think.

00:49:12.375 --> 00:49:12.795
Exactly.

00:49:12.915 --> 00:49:13.275
Yeah.

00:49:13.335 --> 00:49:14.115
Zach Hanson: Yeah, it was, yeah.

00:49:14.115 --> 00:49:16.665
And uh, it's happened with
wolves and coyotes too.

00:49:16.694 --> 00:49:18.555
They're, they're, they're smart animals.

00:49:18.555 --> 00:49:24.105
But yep, that's been the hardest learning
curve for me, but also the most rewarding.

00:49:24.105 --> 00:49:29.325
And again, what I have found myself to
be truly most drawn to, like, I, I'm

00:49:29.325 --> 00:49:33.315
going archery, mule deer hunting and
have Alina hunting next week in Arizona.

00:49:33.585 --> 00:49:35.055
I'm very excited about that.

00:49:35.055 --> 00:49:39.345
But I'd, I'd be a liar if I weren't
excited to already get back to my trap

00:49:39.345 --> 00:49:41.595
lines to go check for Beaver Otter.

00:49:41.595 --> 00:49:45.404
Like yesterday I found the new
dam upstream from us with a lodge

00:49:45.410 --> 00:49:46.694
that I had missed in the summer.

00:49:47.025 --> 00:49:49.004
So it's a, it's an exciting thing.

00:49:49.725 --> 00:49:49.995
Very

00:49:49.995 --> 00:49:50.444
Travis Bader: cool.

00:49:51.105 --> 00:49:55.185
You know, my, my trapping experience
basically boils down to trying to

00:49:55.185 --> 00:49:59.115
get rid of raccoons in the backyard
and got some raccoons, got some

00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:03.794
skunks, um, uh, mostly live trapping.

00:50:03.884 --> 00:50:07.035
Uh, conna bear tried that
actually for raccoons, I've found.

00:50:07.904 --> 00:50:10.504
They climb, they don't dig,
and they're shock sensitive.

00:50:10.754 --> 00:50:14.325
So for a real cheap on Amazon,
you can buy a, uh, a cattle

00:50:14.325 --> 00:50:16.274
guard and, uh, electric fence.

00:50:16.305 --> 00:50:18.705
Put it at the top of
your, uh, your wood fence.

00:50:19.305 --> 00:50:21.105
Never had a raccoon problem since.

00:50:21.705 --> 00:50:23.774
Why I, why I went that route?

00:50:23.835 --> 00:50:25.964
Did you know that raccoon's
used a communal latrine?

00:50:27.134 --> 00:50:28.095
Zach Hanson: I did not know that.

00:50:28.395 --> 00:50:28.665
Travis Bader: Look at that.

00:50:28.754 --> 00:50:29.355
I didn't know.

00:50:29.845 --> 00:50:34.935
I didn't, yeah, I didn't know this
either until, uh, we bought our, our,

00:50:34.935 --> 00:50:36.315
well, our current house that we're in.

00:50:37.605 --> 00:50:42.314
and there was great big piles of raccoon
crap right in the middle of our yard.

00:50:42.314 --> 00:50:45.435
And I started looking into it and
it turns out they will all come to

00:50:45.435 --> 00:50:49.185
the same spot and they'll use a, a
communal latrine to go to the washroom.

00:50:49.185 --> 00:50:53.355
And so I was out there with sling
shots and pellet guns and trying to

00:50:53.355 --> 00:50:56.145
do everything, not paprika, hot sauce.

00:50:56.355 --> 00:51:01.694
So all the things that the internet says
is good and uh, nothing was successful.

00:51:01.725 --> 00:51:04.814
Pellet guns, they just kind of shrug a
little bit if you snap 'em with that.

00:51:04.814 --> 00:51:09.345
So started doing the trapping and man,
there's so many, the electric fence solved

00:51:09.350 --> 00:51:11.325
it, gone, never had a problem since.

00:51:11.355 --> 00:51:13.095
And skunks, have you ever trapped a skunk?

00:51:13.875 --> 00:51:14.085
Is

00:51:14.085 --> 00:51:14.714
Zach Hanson: that I have.

00:51:14.955 --> 00:51:15.495
I have.

00:51:15.524 --> 00:51:15.734
Okay.

00:51:15.740 --> 00:51:23.475
And, uh, my wife is still, I'm
say how to put it, you know, going

00:51:23.475 --> 00:51:26.654
back to wanting to use the whole
animal, like, you know, trying to

00:51:26.714 --> 00:51:29.455
extract skunk essence is, uh, right.

00:51:29.455 --> 00:51:36.915
An art, uh, not so much a science,
uh, . So, . Yeah, I'll leave it at that.

00:51:36.915 --> 00:51:40.935
But yeah, I have, uh, very interesting
animals make beautiful pelts.

00:51:40.995 --> 00:51:43.665
Um, we have 'em up there, so trap 'em.

00:51:43.725 --> 00:51:44.174
Okay.

00:51:44.180 --> 00:51:47.145
If they, in a, they step in one,
I'm not really targeting them,

00:51:47.145 --> 00:51:48.435
but have caught 'em before.

00:51:48.464 --> 00:51:48.855
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:51:49.484 --> 00:51:49.964
Okay.

00:51:50.055 --> 00:51:53.415
Well, I, I've been fortunate enough to
never have gotten any stink on me, but,

00:51:53.415 --> 00:51:59.535
uh, uh, live trap them, relocated them,
cardboard shield, home brew, whatever, as

00:51:59.535 --> 00:52:01.904
I'm trying to, uh, to, to let them out.

00:52:01.910 --> 00:52:07.665
But, um, I actually, after reading
your book, I thought, you know what?

00:52:08.205 --> 00:52:13.125
I should learn more about trapping
and I've reached out to the local, uh,

00:52:13.335 --> 00:52:15.015
British Columbia Trapping Association.

00:52:15.015 --> 00:52:18.464
They've got a three day course,
so I, I gotta check that out

00:52:18.470 --> 00:52:19.544
and, and see what it's about.

00:52:19.544 --> 00:52:21.464
But you did a course as well
in trapping, didn't you?

00:52:22.245 --> 00:52:22.544
Yeah.

00:52:22.544 --> 00:52:22.815
Uh,

00:52:22.819 --> 00:52:23.895
Zach Hanson: well, with Idaho right.

00:52:23.895 --> 00:52:26.475
You have to have a trapper's
license, so, right.

00:52:26.475 --> 00:52:28.305
I went and did that
and, and that was okay.

00:52:28.395 --> 00:52:32.205
You know, it was very basic like,
Hey, here are some basic traps.

00:52:32.205 --> 00:52:34.095
You know, I didn't learn
as much as I thought, but.

00:52:34.755 --> 00:52:37.245
. I had my heart set on wolf trapping.

00:52:37.245 --> 00:52:38.775
That's a big thing out here in Idaho.

00:52:38.805 --> 00:52:41.715
You know, I was getting to see
firsthand how some of the, you know,

00:52:42.525 --> 00:52:44.505
wolf populations around where I live.

00:52:44.510 --> 00:52:47.265
Cause you can hear 'em, you can
see 'em, you know, decimating

00:52:47.265 --> 00:52:48.855
elk and deer all around us.

00:52:48.975 --> 00:52:49.215
Right.

00:52:49.220 --> 00:52:50.445
You know, focus on that.

00:52:50.535 --> 00:52:54.015
And they have to have in Idaho
a wolf trapper's license.

00:52:54.045 --> 00:52:58.275
You know, that allows me to take
up to like 15 wolves every season.

00:52:59.505 --> 00:53:00.025
Right.

00:53:00.495 --> 00:53:02.175
That's where I learned a lot.

00:53:02.325 --> 00:53:06.135
Um, the, the teacher there was
a really great wolf trapper.

00:53:06.375 --> 00:53:10.155
You know, he actually went into kind
of the, the science and the art behind

00:53:10.155 --> 00:53:13.425
it and talked about what you should
shouldn't do, like how you should go

00:53:13.425 --> 00:53:14.475
through these different processes.

00:53:14.475 --> 00:53:16.155
It was a mentorship thing for me.

00:53:16.635 --> 00:53:17.805
Uh, and that was helpful.

00:53:18.135 --> 00:53:20.895
You know, I still haven't trapped
a wolf successfully to this date.

00:53:20.925 --> 00:53:23.865
I mean, they're super smart, but it helped
me with all my other canine trapping.

00:53:23.865 --> 00:53:28.305
And since then, you know, I've gone
to, um, a bunch of different courses

00:53:28.305 --> 00:53:31.245
on it, just out of my own curiosity
cuz there's so much to learn.

00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:34.665
And in fact, I'm going down to
the Idaho Trapper's Association,

00:53:34.875 --> 00:53:38.775
uh, first sale in two or three
weeks here in Glen's Ferry, Idaho.

00:53:38.775 --> 00:53:40.515
And gonna be there signing books.

00:53:40.515 --> 00:53:44.805
But I'm planning to take a lot of the
courses they have, they'll have, you know,

00:53:47.310 --> 00:53:50.700
, different beaver type of approaches
you can do for different scenarios.

00:53:50.700 --> 00:53:50.790
Mm-hmm.

00:53:51.120 --> 00:53:54.300
, the list is endless on, you know,
people who have experienced and had

00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:58.200
success doing things people other people
haven't, you know, and vice versa.

00:53:58.200 --> 00:54:04.260
So the community I have found with
trapping has been way more welcoming

00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:06.780
for a newbie than the hunting community.

00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:08.310
That's not to say that I did really.

00:54:09.380 --> 00:54:10.830
I have um, okay, nice.

00:54:10.830 --> 00:54:11.351
And I think it's nice.

00:54:11.550 --> 00:54:15.720
It's partially because it's a little
more accessible maybe, you know?

00:54:15.810 --> 00:54:16.080
Mm-hmm.

00:54:16.080 --> 00:54:18.780
It's odd to get props.

00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:22.440
So Clay Newcomb with meat eater, I
reached out to him totally to read my

00:54:22.470 --> 00:54:25.710
chapter on Bear, where I mentioned him as
kind of a little bit of an inspiration.

00:54:26.070 --> 00:54:28.110
He took the time to read it
and said, Hey, this looks good.

00:54:28.115 --> 00:54:29.340
You're allowed to use my name.

00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:30.030
I said, okay.

00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:35.310
But when I talked to Tom Miranda, who's,
you know, a famous bow hunter, but you

00:54:35.310 --> 00:54:39.270
know, cut his teeth, trapping very, you
know, involved in the National Trapper's

00:54:39.270 --> 00:54:43.680
Association, and then Rusty Kramer,
who's the Idaho Trapper Association.

00:54:44.115 --> 00:54:46.875
Those guys didn't just like
say, okay, hey new guy.

00:54:46.875 --> 00:54:50.595
Like, you know, uh, yeah, I'll
read your stupid little chapter and

00:54:50.595 --> 00:54:54.105
give you a thumbs up . Like, you
know, they said, this is awesome.

00:54:54.110 --> 00:54:55.935
Like, we're very glad you're here.

00:54:56.055 --> 00:54:57.825
What can we do to help you?

00:54:58.245 --> 00:54:59.745
And it was really kind.

00:55:00.255 --> 00:55:04.215
Yeah, it was an effusive like, I
think because it's a little bit

00:55:04.215 --> 00:55:09.045
more on the periphery and it's a
lot often under a lot more scrutiny.

00:55:09.465 --> 00:55:14.085
Uh, the things that go around it are,
are a lot more tight-knit and they

00:55:14.085 --> 00:55:18.375
want more people in, they want people
who are, you know, educated and can

00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:23.235
articulate the experience in a way that
is honest, but also, you know, positive

00:55:23.295 --> 00:55:25.455
and talk about the benefits of it.

00:55:25.905 --> 00:55:29.355
And, you know, a guy, the Montana
Trappers Association President Chris

00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:32.775
Morgan, you know, he's been fantastic
giving me all sorts of stuff.

00:55:32.780 --> 00:55:38.175
And you know, one of the things that
my wife is equal parts happy and equal

00:55:38.175 --> 00:55:44.475
parts, you know, Tired of it is since the
books come out, I've had more trappers

00:55:44.685 --> 00:55:49.905
send me boxes of their homemade lores
and, you know, cat urine and other

00:55:49.905 --> 00:55:54.795
stuff, . So without fail, like at least
once or twice a month, my wife will

00:55:54.795 --> 00:56:00.645
come in with like a soggy u s box that I
think this one's for you and hand it over

00:56:01.175 --> 00:56:04.975
So it's just been super welc welcoming
is really what it boils down to.

00:56:04.975 --> 00:56:05.495
That is so

00:56:05.625 --> 00:56:05.635
Travis Bader: cool.

00:56:07.125 --> 00:56:07.365
Yeah.

00:56:07.365 --> 00:56:11.085
You know, I always, I always like
talking to people who've got a fair

00:56:11.090 --> 00:56:15.255
bit of experience in a certain field
and asking them like, what have you

00:56:15.260 --> 00:56:16.695
learned that might surprise someone?

00:56:16.725 --> 00:56:20.595
Like I, I asked a Randy's a
firefighter and I said, you know,

00:56:20.775 --> 00:56:22.485
I know about fire, I like fire.

00:56:22.605 --> 00:56:24.075
What, what can you teach me about fire?

00:56:24.075 --> 00:56:26.775
What did you learn in
your, uh, in your training?

00:56:27.720 --> 00:56:31.230
, uh, it might surprise people and he says,
oh, everything burns in a gases state.

00:56:31.260 --> 00:56:34.620
Well, I guess nearly everything,
nothing burns in a solid state.

00:56:34.680 --> 00:56:37.020
You heat it up hot enough
gas, it'll gas off.

00:56:37.020 --> 00:56:39.960
And that's what burns I'm
like, huh, I like that.

00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:42.480
And I use that for when
teaching fire making.

00:56:43.560 --> 00:56:47.460
That's if someone just keeps sat
in the back of their head, okay, I

00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:50.460
can't just jump to a big piece of
wood cuz it's gotta get hot enough to

00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:55.380
gas off and that's what is going to
actually make the fire for trapping.

00:56:55.410 --> 00:56:59.160
What have you learned that maybe
surprised you that you wouldn't have

00:56:59.160 --> 00:57:00.630
thought of prior to getting into it?

00:57:01.590 --> 00:57:02.370
Zach Hanson: Oh man.

00:57:02.430 --> 00:57:06.870
Um, that's gonna be hard
to boil down to just one.

00:57:06.870 --> 00:57:13.710
So let me think about like, what is the
most beneficial and probably painful

00:57:13.715 --> 00:57:15.960
lesson that I've ever learned in trapping?

00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:17.070
Um,

00:57:20.550 --> 00:57:23.580
let me think about a way to
get something that's succinct.

00:57:24.405 --> 00:57:25.260
able to be taken away.

00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:27.930
I mean, other than animals
are just way smarter than me.

00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.590
Um, it would be

00:57:36.390 --> 00:57:37.560
river otters.

00:57:38.100 --> 00:57:40.230
And again, this is not gonna be
like a piece of advice you'll be

00:57:40.230 --> 00:57:41.610
able to take away like your friend.

00:57:41.610 --> 00:57:42.990
So I apologize for that Sure.

00:57:42.995 --> 00:57:43.710
In the first place.

00:57:43.715 --> 00:57:46.620
But river otters are
hell of a swimmer, man.

00:57:46.625 --> 00:57:47.820
They Yeah.

00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:48.610
Are fast.

00:57:48.810 --> 00:57:49.230
Oh yeah.

00:57:49.290 --> 00:57:52.230
I mean, you might see it in the zoo,
so it might not be a lot of new stuff,

00:57:52.235 --> 00:57:57.330
but I actually have one of the coolest
experiences of my life, um, about a month

00:57:57.330 --> 00:58:02.880
ago, right at the start of OT or at Otter
season here in Idaho, I was out trapping

00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:07.710
Bieber and uh, I got out with my headlamp
and I was about to get in the water to

00:58:07.710 --> 00:58:09.300
set some kind of bears and foothold traps.

00:58:09.300 --> 00:58:10.290
And I saw a beaver.

00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:10.650
Yeah.

00:58:11.430 --> 00:58:12.420
And I was like, oh, cool.

00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:17.010
Um, Normally when you see a
beaver, they, they scurry right?

00:58:17.220 --> 00:58:18.540
And it dipped in the water.

00:58:18.545 --> 00:58:18.630
Sure.

00:58:18.990 --> 00:58:21.870
I went over there and I was shining
down with my headlight and this beaver

00:58:21.930 --> 00:58:24.240
is just hauling through the water.

00:58:24.240 --> 00:58:26.460
I'm like, what is this thing doing
and why is it not afraid of me?

00:58:26.850 --> 00:58:29.100
And it kind of came up
in the dark on the mound.

00:58:29.105 --> 00:58:30.900
I was standing on near
the side of the road.

00:58:31.410 --> 00:58:32.310
I was like, well that's weird.

00:58:32.315 --> 00:58:34.830
So I clapped my hands and it
disappeared and went into the den,

00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:39.270
got in the water, you know, chest
high, waiters, you know, deep water.

00:58:39.450 --> 00:58:42.060
This beaver comes out and starts
swimming circles around me.

00:58:42.060 --> 00:58:44.670
I'm like, this is like
the coolest thing ever.

00:58:45.150 --> 00:58:49.020
And I really hope I don't get attacked
by a beaver, cuz a buddy of mine

00:58:49.020 --> 00:58:52.320
had just sent me some cheesy horror
flick called Zombie is where like

00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:53.590
the end of the world and everything.

00:58:53.590 --> 00:58:54.180
Seen it.

00:58:54.810 --> 00:58:55.140
Yep.

00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:56.430
So you know what I'm talking about.

00:58:56.435 --> 00:58:56.550
Yep.

00:58:56.900 --> 00:58:57.550
Seen it.

00:58:58.380 --> 00:58:58.870
Yeah.

00:58:58.875 --> 00:59:02.250
So I was afraid that was gonna be the
scenario, but you know, it went away.

00:59:02.550 --> 00:59:03.300
Set my trap.

00:59:03.995 --> 00:59:08.640
came back the next day and I had this
beautiful, huge otter on a drowning wire.

00:59:08.970 --> 00:59:13.259
And what I realized is, you know, we had
torn out that dam we being the highway

00:59:13.265 --> 00:59:16.259
district, which I was the chairman
of at the time for the rural area.

00:59:16.710 --> 00:59:20.279
And that empty den had
been taken over by Otter.

00:59:20.640 --> 00:59:22.680
So it was an otter that
was swimming around me.

00:59:22.680 --> 00:59:24.450
You know, beaver aren't
that fast in the water.

00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:25.050
Right, right.

00:59:25.140 --> 00:59:25.440
Okay.

00:59:25.610 --> 00:59:27.180
Uh, but that makes sense.

00:59:27.180 --> 00:59:28.020
It was pretty cool.

00:59:28.259 --> 00:59:31.740
And you know, hindsight being what it
is, you know, they call otters river

00:59:31.740 --> 00:59:34.890
wolves for a lot of different reasons
cuz they can be pretty cranky little

00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:36.870
curious things and eat all our trout.

00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:41.610
So, uh, I was glad that I did not get
attacked by an otter, but the coolest

00:59:41.610 --> 00:59:47.009
thing I've learned trapping is that otter
really fast and really cool swimmers and

00:59:47.009 --> 00:59:48.330
cool thing to have a little interaction.

00:59:49.259 --> 00:59:49.980
Travis Bader: That's pretty neat.

00:59:49.980 --> 00:59:53.009
I've never, I've seen them
kind of going under the dock.

00:59:53.160 --> 00:59:57.690
One of the cabins I've, I'll see them
as, they kind of like just slink down

00:59:57.690 --> 00:59:59.970
into the river and then disappear.

01:00:00.630 --> 01:00:03.330
Never had the experience to watch
'em just zip around like that.

01:00:03.330 --> 01:00:04.170
That'd be pretty neat.

01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:05.130
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

01:00:05.134 --> 01:00:07.620
And I guess the only other thing to
take away, if you start trapping,

01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:12.120
a lot of animals have baula, you
know, penis bones, and Right.

01:00:12.120 --> 01:00:14.640
When you trap a lot of of animals
and you wanna get into, you know,

01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:18.299
using everything, you know, you'll
have an endless supply of Christmas

01:00:18.299 --> 01:00:22.140
gifts if you get into trapping . Uh,
so this muzzle stick for you?

01:00:22.890 --> 01:00:23.549
. Exactly.

01:00:23.549 --> 01:00:25.799
So yeah, save money on Christmas.

01:00:25.799 --> 01:00:26.640
Start trapping.

01:00:27.870 --> 01:00:29.460
Travis Bader: Actually, a
guy was killed by a beaver.

01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:32.940
I remember, uh, uh, reading
about that a number of years ago.

01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:35.400
I guess a thing came at
him and bit him in his leg.

01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:39.120
And then he got his femoral,
apparently, if I recall correctly,

01:00:39.120 --> 01:00:40.529
he was actually killed by a beaver.

01:00:41.490 --> 01:00:43.410
The other weird one about, yeah.

01:00:44.370 --> 01:00:45.130
, 
Zach Hanson: you know, seeing what's that?

01:00:45.135 --> 01:00:48.930
Their teeth like when you see their teeth
and you like pull back their lipstick and

01:00:48.930 --> 01:00:53.550
you, you know, cape out their heads, their
teeth are huge and they're like steel.

01:00:53.550 --> 01:00:57.600
So it's one of those things like, I
could see that, uh, yeah, totally happen,

01:00:58.470 --> 01:00:59.430
Travis Bader: but what a bad way to go.

01:00:59.430 --> 01:00:59.970
He's a kidding.

01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:01.530
Oh, it'd be terrible.

01:01:01.530 --> 01:01:03.030
Everyone would be laughing
about that forever.

01:01:03.750 --> 01:01:03.840
I know.

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:04.620
Killed by a beaver.

01:01:04.620 --> 01:01:05.250
Are you kidding me?

01:01:06.030 --> 01:01:06.120
Yeah.

01:01:06.120 --> 01:01:11.220
I remember as a kid I had a beaver skull
that had found and uh, it's got these kind

01:01:11.225 --> 01:01:15.030
of yellow teeth that are coming out, but
you could pull the teeth and just keep on

01:01:15.030 --> 01:01:16.740
coming and coming and coming and current.

01:01:16.740 --> 01:01:19.980
All the white stuff, the, the
teeth grow real far back into their

01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:22.440
head, which was something that
was kind of an interesting one.

01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.440
Yeah, I guess they always have
to chew because their teeth

01:01:25.590 --> 01:01:26.580
are, they're always growing.

01:01:26.580 --> 01:01:26.910
Zach Hanson: Right.

01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:28.650
That's my understanding.

01:01:28.650 --> 01:01:33.180
So yeah, they're, uh, constantly
chewing and knocking trees over our

01:01:33.180 --> 01:01:34.680
road, so they're always at work.

01:01:34.685 --> 01:01:35.520
I know that's for sure.

01:01:36.945 --> 01:01:39.645
Travis Bader: Here's another one that
a lot of people raised as an eyebrow.

01:01:39.645 --> 01:01:42.735
When I mention it, I don't know if
it's been your experience, if you've

01:01:42.735 --> 01:01:48.405
ever seen this, but driving through the
tunnel, highway 99, we turn into Ladner.

01:01:48.405 --> 01:01:51.975
I look up on the right, I'm like, what
the hell is that thing up in a tree there?

01:01:52.605 --> 01:01:53.655
It looks like a beaver.

01:01:54.075 --> 01:01:55.755
Did you know that beavers can climb trees?

01:01:56.805 --> 01:01:57.045
Zach Hanson: Yep.

01:01:57.045 --> 01:01:58.065
I did not know that.

01:01:58.065 --> 01:02:00.495
That's another, that's the second
factor hitting with me was something

01:02:00.495 --> 01:02:01.545
that I feel like I should know.

01:02:01.545 --> 01:02:03.165
But no, I'm gonna start.

01:02:03.170 --> 01:02:04.155
I didn't know.

01:02:04.935 --> 01:02:05.265
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:02:05.265 --> 01:02:07.365
How the heck did this
beaver get up in the tree?

01:02:07.365 --> 01:02:10.035
I've never, in a million years is what
I thought that there'd be a beaver.

01:02:10.035 --> 01:02:11.415
I, I pulled over and I'm looking at 'em.

01:02:11.595 --> 01:02:14.115
That's a beaver up there
in the tree Anyways.

01:02:14.120 --> 01:02:14.275
Yeah,

01:02:14.505 --> 01:02:16.335
Zach Hanson: the beaver
facts are, are endless.

01:02:16.340 --> 01:02:21.135
Like one of the cool things in Idaho, like
in the Frank Church wilderness, I think

01:02:21.135 --> 01:02:24.645
it was in the twenties, thirties, I might
have the dates wrong, but you know, there

01:02:24.645 --> 01:02:28.965
had been, uh, a dearth of population and
they needed some deforesting efforts.

01:02:28.965 --> 01:02:34.485
So they parachuted in a bunch of beavers
and anticipation of, uh, You know, trying

01:02:34.485 --> 01:02:38.025
to defor it and there's like, there's like
a commemorative coin in Idaho or something

01:02:38.025 --> 01:02:41.925
like of a parachuting beaver and you
know, all sorts of weird stuff like that.

01:02:41.925 --> 01:02:45.765
So then it's a rich history and that's
what has kind of drawn me to beaver,

01:02:45.770 --> 01:02:47.505
you know, like this one on my wall.

01:02:47.505 --> 01:02:53.325
And you know, it for us, you know, Canada,
the us you know, the Canadian fur trade

01:02:53.325 --> 01:02:56.715
and the American fur trade, like that's
what our countries were founded on.

01:02:56.715 --> 01:03:02.115
That's where, you know, we all started,
was in the rivers trapping beaver and

01:03:02.475 --> 01:03:06.555
feeling that connection today, like
as cheesy as it sounds, and you'd

01:03:06.560 --> 01:03:10.635
asked about like, what I've taken to
like being in the water, in the snow

01:03:10.635 --> 01:03:12.615
in the winter with a trap on my back.

01:03:13.125 --> 01:03:17.085
You know, trying to target an animal
that people have been doing for

01:03:17.145 --> 01:03:21.255
hundreds of years is one of the coolest
freaking things that I've ever done.

01:03:21.645 --> 01:03:26.745
And it just, it makes me happy every
time I do it, regardless of success rate.

01:03:28.215 --> 01:03:29.115
Travis Bader: That is awesome.

01:03:30.075 --> 01:03:32.535
Are you typically using the compound bow?

01:03:32.535 --> 01:03:36.435
Because I saw one of the pictures I
look like in, uh, the bottom corner.

01:03:36.435 --> 01:03:39.645
There's a fluted barrel with a
muzzle break on a, uh, a rifle.

01:03:39.645 --> 01:03:45.615
But reading how you write and you write
very well, um, it doesn't seem like you

01:03:45.615 --> 01:03:47.595
really come from a gun background though.

01:03:47.955 --> 01:03:48.615
Uh, no.

01:03:49.215 --> 01:03:51.795
Zach Hanson: Um, that, you know,
I've done pistol shooting, so like my

01:03:51.795 --> 01:03:54.885
ex-wife, you know, f fbi, special agent,
like, we would go shoot all the time.

01:03:54.885 --> 01:03:57.195
Like, I'm not unfamiliar with weapons.

01:03:57.195 --> 01:03:59.865
I grew up with weapons in the
household, you know, shooting with

01:03:59.865 --> 01:04:01.965
uncles, like rifles, stuff like that.

01:04:01.965 --> 01:04:06.585
But, um, that rifle you see is my 300 prc.

01:04:06.675 --> 01:04:12.705
Uh, it was gifted to me by, uh, a buddy
of mine who is a hunter, a rifle hunter.

01:04:12.765 --> 01:04:16.155
Uh, and he and I owned a
company together in one year.

01:04:16.155 --> 01:04:18.795
We weren't doing so great, so he was
like, I'm gonna build his custom rifles.

01:04:18.795 --> 01:04:19.845
I'm like, all right, that's fine.

01:04:19.850 --> 01:04:20.895
Better than taking a check.

01:04:21.225 --> 01:04:24.285
So he built this beautiful 300
prc, put a great optic on it.

01:04:24.355 --> 01:04:25.875
He is like, this is gonna
be great, blah, blah, blah.

01:04:26.535 --> 01:04:32.805
You know, it sat in my closet for a year
just because, you know, for me, I shot

01:04:33.415 --> 01:04:36.645
thousands of arrows before I even went
and sat in my tree stand for the first

01:04:36.650 --> 01:04:38.325
time and never saw a deer, you know?

01:04:38.375 --> 01:04:38.695
Mm-hmm.

01:04:38.780 --> 01:04:42.585
, it, it's a level of comfort for me
to be able to go out and attempt

01:04:42.585 --> 01:04:44.505
to take an animal with something.

01:04:44.775 --> 01:04:48.045
So I did actually in this
past year, I ended up doing a

01:04:48.105 --> 01:04:50.625
course here in Boise, Idaho.

01:04:50.835 --> 01:04:54.285
It was a long range shooting course,
so, you know, they taught me how to take

01:04:54.285 --> 01:04:57.915
that gun out to a thousand yards, you
know, a little over a thousand yards.

01:04:58.245 --> 01:05:01.545
Um, but since then, you know,
I set up some steel behind her

01:05:01.550 --> 01:05:04.995
house in Atlanta, and I've shot
it maybe three or four times.

01:05:04.995 --> 01:05:09.585
So it's one of those things where,
you know, I wouldn't, if you get said,

01:05:09.585 --> 01:05:14.925
Hey, Zach, you can go on a doll sheep
hunt tomorrow, but it's gonna be rifle,

01:05:15.375 --> 01:05:19.875
you know, unless I'm 200 yards, which
maybe we could do where it's zeroed.

01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:22.770
I'm probably not gonna take a shot
just cause I'm not comfortable.

01:05:22.770 --> 01:05:24.810
That doesn't mean that
that's not on my docket.

01:05:24.810 --> 01:05:29.910
Like I would love to be proficient at
rifle hunting like, but what I've learned,

01:05:29.915 --> 01:05:35.850
you know, my false assumption coming into
hunting was that archery is this, you

01:05:35.850 --> 01:05:40.200
know, again, this was my pretension and
ego speaking like this is, we're romantic.

01:05:41.310 --> 01:05:42.330
Yeah, exactly.

01:05:42.330 --> 01:05:46.380
It's this, I'm gonna be close and
have this experience with animal, um,

01:05:47.220 --> 01:05:51.810
rifle hunting in the mountain west
in Canada, in the us I don't care if

01:05:51.810 --> 01:05:56.520
you're with a stick, a knife, a bow, a
gun, it is hard no matter what you do.

01:05:56.520 --> 01:05:57.040
Mm-hmm.

01:05:57.125 --> 01:06:01.020
and especially like a rifle seasons,
you know, like for elk don't

01:06:01.020 --> 01:06:02.880
tend to be when they're as vocal.

01:06:03.120 --> 01:06:07.020
So you know, you have to be a little
bit further away and you know, I

01:06:07.020 --> 01:06:08.550
have an appreciation for that now.

01:06:08.550 --> 01:06:09.870
Just bow hunting that.

01:06:11.005 --> 01:06:12.840
. There's half the time that I've seen
animals that I don't even know if

01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:14.100
I'd be able to take with a rifle.

01:06:14.430 --> 01:06:17.940
Um, and there's just a good chance that
I woo a shot with a rifle as they do

01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:20.320
with a bow, you know, given practice

01:06:20.605 --> 01:06:24.810
So, yeah, it's something I want to
do and I have the equipment now.

01:06:24.815 --> 01:06:27.870
It's just a matter of making it a
prioritization and it just hasn't

01:06:27.930 --> 01:06:29.490
bubbled up to the top for me yet.

01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:32.400
But anybody who wants to come
take me rifle hunting in Idaho

01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:36.810
and teach me the ropes and uh, you
know, please come out and let's go.

01:06:38.580 --> 01:06:40.650
Travis Bader: Well, let's put that
out there for anyone in Idaho.

01:06:40.650 --> 01:06:44.640
I'd say come up to bc, but for anything
big game here, you gotta be with a guide.

01:06:45.390 --> 01:06:47.580
Hey, I can take you out for waterfall.

01:06:47.580 --> 01:06:49.500
But you can do that pretty
easily where you are too.

01:06:49.650 --> 01:06:50.140
Yeah.

01:06:50.220 --> 01:06:53.580
And in fact, back in Louisiana, some,
some great water fouling down there.

01:06:54.270 --> 01:06:55.470
Zach Hanson: Yeah, I, I was, and bummed.

01:06:55.470 --> 01:06:58.110
You know, it was one of those things
that catch 22, like the, the what

01:06:58.110 --> 01:06:59.790
ifs, you know, not growing up hunting.

01:06:59.790 --> 01:07:02.580
I think about all the missed
opportunities and places that I have

01:07:02.580 --> 01:07:07.905
lived, like, um, you know, , obviously
South Carolina, Tennessee, good

01:07:07.905 --> 01:07:09.915
deer hunting, young Louisiana.

01:07:09.915 --> 01:07:12.465
I missed out on waterfowl
and upland type birds.

01:07:12.765 --> 01:07:16.455
I lived overseas for a long time,
so I lived in Kurgastan where they

01:07:16.455 --> 01:07:21.195
have some amazing, like, you know,
IEX and other hunting opportunities.

01:07:21.585 --> 01:07:26.265
Uh, you know, I lived in the caucuses
mountains in Georgia and Russia, you know,

01:07:26.475 --> 01:07:30.315
awesome hunting opportunities, so I missed
out on all those, is what I'm saying.

01:07:30.555 --> 01:07:32.805
Uh, by not getting into it younger,

01:07:34.005 --> 01:07:35.265
Travis Bader: hey, you're into it now.

01:07:35.265 --> 01:07:36.435
That's all that matters, right?

01:07:37.245 --> 01:07:37.575
Yep.

01:07:38.295 --> 01:07:41.175
When you're putting this book
together, did you start out on your

01:07:41.175 --> 01:07:44.415
journey thinking, I'm gonna document
along the way, this is gonna be a

01:07:44.415 --> 01:07:47.955
book, or did you at some, at what
point did you decide that this was

01:07:47.955 --> 01:07:48.675
Zach Hanson: gonna be a book?

01:07:49.665 --> 01:07:52.215
Yeah, I, I didn't have it planned out.

01:07:52.215 --> 01:07:55.065
Like I've always written, I've
written one other book, um,

01:07:56.085 --> 01:07:56.715
you know, it was kind of about.

01:07:57.859 --> 01:08:00.645
, artificial intelligence ish stuff.

01:08:00.705 --> 01:08:01.605
Um, okay.

01:08:01.634 --> 01:08:03.734
I've always liked to write,
I've always journaled.

01:08:03.734 --> 01:08:05.145
I've always done these things.

01:08:05.145 --> 01:08:09.944
I've blogged, I've, I've always liked
long form writing because for me, I have

01:08:09.944 --> 01:08:15.015
such like a monkey mind, like to get a
clear thought out, I need to spend time

01:08:15.020 --> 01:08:17.835
putting it on paper, digital or otherwise.

01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:17.934
Mm.

01:08:18.465 --> 01:08:22.005
Um, and that's just my medium for
getting like my own thoughts across.

01:08:22.005 --> 01:08:28.035
Like, if I'm frustrated with my wife,
I will say, Hey, let's not talk right

01:08:28.035 --> 01:08:31.425
now because I'm gonna have word vomit
that's just gonna piss you off more.

01:08:31.425 --> 01:08:35.505
So let me go away , you know, put
it down on paper and then we can

01:08:35.505 --> 01:08:36.375
talk about it in a little while.

01:08:36.375 --> 01:08:37.455
And that's worked well for me.

01:08:38.054 --> 01:08:43.095
Um, but when I went through that
divorce, like my ex-wife and I, despite

01:08:43.099 --> 01:08:47.054
the kind of unexpected nature of it,
we were really kind to each other.

01:08:47.054 --> 01:08:52.125
And that was like my mantra from the
second that I heard about it is like,

01:08:52.304 --> 01:08:54.255
I am not gonna react to this in anger.

01:08:54.314 --> 01:08:56.325
And that took a lot from me.

01:08:57.309 --> 01:09:01.049
to not react in anger about the situation
that I happened to find myself in.

01:09:01.559 --> 01:09:05.219
And so I actually went and was
thinking, you know, after a few months

01:09:05.639 --> 01:09:09.359
I'd been in Idaho, I was like, you
know, she and I were still friends,

01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:10.769
we were being very kind to each other.

01:09:10.769 --> 01:09:15.450
I'm like, I should write a book about
like, you know, how to get through

01:09:15.450 --> 01:09:22.559
divorce ego free, and still come out
with some version of a friendship, right?

01:09:22.589 --> 01:09:22.830
Mm-hmm.

01:09:23.075 --> 01:09:24.540
, you know, if, if that's what you wanted.

01:09:24.990 --> 01:09:27.540
So, sure, that was kind of my
initial thought for a book.

01:09:28.410 --> 01:09:32.219
But then as I kind of meditated
on it in the woods, you know,

01:09:32.670 --> 01:09:35.309
I was like, that's not the book
that I'm, I'm writing like this.

01:09:35.314 --> 01:09:37.979
This is a real true just journey.

01:09:37.979 --> 01:09:39.479
Like the divorce is part of that.

01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:43.529
And like the way I reacted
is, you know, good and maybe I

01:09:43.529 --> 01:09:44.729
could write that book one day.

01:09:44.729 --> 01:09:47.969
But you know, for me it was this
just transformative experience.

01:09:47.969 --> 01:09:51.179
And as I was journaling, just as I
always did, I started seeing these

01:09:51.184 --> 01:09:55.620
stories come together and, you know, . I
thought in my head like, there's no way

01:09:55.620 --> 01:09:59.430
I could write a hunting or trapping book
because all I'm doing is failing in, in

01:09:59.430 --> 01:10:01.110
my mind the way we defined it earlier.

01:10:01.170 --> 01:10:01.320
Right.

01:10:01.320 --> 01:10:02.580
I'm not harvesting animals.

01:10:02.580 --> 01:10:02.910
Sure.

01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:08.190
I'm making a lot of mistakes along the way
and like who, who would wanna read that?

01:10:08.280 --> 01:10:08.760
Right.

01:10:09.240 --> 01:10:14.220
But as I thought about it more and I
talk to more people and I like tried

01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:16.530
to be honest cuz when I went through
this divorce, I'm like, you know what?

01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:21.030
I wanna just be honest as much
as I can the rest of my life.

01:10:21.030 --> 01:10:24.150
Like I just want to be open,
even if it's embarrassing.

01:10:24.570 --> 01:10:24.660
Mm-hmm.

01:10:24.905 --> 01:10:27.360
. So I'd have conversations with people
and hunters and they'd be like,

01:10:27.480 --> 01:10:28.680
oh dude, I went through that too.

01:10:28.770 --> 01:10:32.010
And I'm like, you did, but like you
seem like you got your shit together.

01:10:32.010 --> 01:10:33.570
Like, no, no, I went
through that too, man.

01:10:33.570 --> 01:10:36.410
And those kind of started
to compound and I.

01:10:37.035 --> 01:10:40.335
Going back to how we discussed about
writing for that persona, I'm like,

01:10:40.785 --> 01:10:43.725
there's gotta be so many more people
out there that are just like me.

01:10:43.725 --> 01:10:46.035
Cuz I am not some unique snowflake.

01:10:46.035 --> 01:10:50.625
I am, you know, a Joe Blow who happened
to be in, you know, the corporate world.

01:10:50.925 --> 01:10:54.315
You know, a million other people just
like me who have these thoughts but

01:10:54.615 --> 01:10:56.535
you know, have some many barrier.

01:10:56.685 --> 01:11:00.495
So that was why and how it
came about, but it started with

01:11:00.495 --> 01:11:01.965
a completely different idea.

01:11:03.905 --> 01:11:04.265
Travis Bader: Interesting.

01:11:04.785 --> 01:11:07.365
Uh, and you mentioned
meditating out in the woods.

01:11:07.575 --> 01:11:08.775
Is that something you do often?

01:11:10.215 --> 01:11:10.515
Hmm.

01:11:11.655 --> 01:11:12.855
Zach Hanson: You know, I
talk about it with my wife.

01:11:12.855 --> 01:11:15.045
My wife now it's very religious.

01:11:15.105 --> 01:11:18.315
Um, I grew up in the south
religious household, but I

01:11:18.315 --> 01:11:20.625
never took to religion so much.

01:11:20.625 --> 01:11:21.795
Like I explored the world.

01:11:21.795 --> 01:11:21.885
Sure.

01:11:21.885 --> 01:11:23.505
I was lived overseas for a long time.

01:11:23.505 --> 01:11:26.985
I lived in Saudi Arabia, so
I studied Islam, you know, I

01:11:26.985 --> 01:11:30.495
studied Orthodox Christianity
and Russia and these other areas.

01:11:30.495 --> 01:11:32.385
It was always of interest
when I would travel like.

01:11:33.059 --> 01:11:35.519
You know, there's a lot of
common threads I've found.

01:11:35.519 --> 01:11:39.300
Like if you put aside like the religious
organizations, you know, do good to

01:11:39.300 --> 01:11:41.100
your neighbor be kind, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:41.190 --> 01:11:41.519
Sure.

01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:43.170
But my wife's very religious.

01:11:43.620 --> 01:11:45.809
You know, we go to church, we
do these different things and

01:11:45.809 --> 01:11:47.400
I enjoy it now as an adult.

01:11:48.059 --> 01:11:51.990
But I told her from the beginning,
like, I feel religious when I

01:11:51.990 --> 01:11:53.070
happen to be out in the woods.

01:11:53.100 --> 01:11:57.330
And I started to notice that as an
adult, when I would actually, when I

01:11:57.330 --> 01:12:00.420
started to learn to hunt, you know,
when I'm sitting in this tree stand,

01:12:00.630 --> 01:12:05.550
despite being bored, I had this
appreciation for these things around me.

01:12:05.970 --> 01:12:09.090
You know, I wasn't intentionally
meditating on it, but I

01:12:09.090 --> 01:12:10.620
found myself in that state.

01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:15.570
And especially like when you're in a
place like Idaho or Montana, like where

01:12:15.660 --> 01:12:19.290
you can't help but feel small every
time you walk outta your doorstep.

01:12:19.950 --> 01:12:24.120
And that reminder of being small,
when you do it every day and

01:12:24.120 --> 01:12:27.660
you actually, you know, at least
acknowledge it and don't just let it

01:12:27.660 --> 01:12:29.790
kind of slide by and become the norm.

01:12:30.270 --> 01:12:35.790
For me, that just like beat me down
in a positive way to where like I was

01:12:35.790 --> 01:12:38.910
having religious experiences out there,
standing in the water, trying to trap

01:12:38.910 --> 01:12:40.440
for beaver, no matter the outcome.

01:12:41.100 --> 01:12:44.010
When I hear an elk bugle, I'm
like, you know, that's as close to

01:12:44.010 --> 01:12:45.930
God as I'm getting on this earth.

01:12:46.050 --> 01:12:47.190
You know, in my mind.

01:12:47.730 --> 01:12:50.460
And those things compounded too.

01:12:50.730 --> 01:12:53.670
And you know, for me that's
my religious experience.

01:12:53.700 --> 01:12:55.920
You know, an organized religious
experience is just getting out

01:12:55.920 --> 01:13:01.410
in the woods and it's something
you can't describe to people

01:13:01.410 --> 01:13:03.720
who don't go do it themselves.

01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:06.330
Travis Bader: I would
have to agree with that.

01:13:07.200 --> 01:13:12.300
You know, there, there is just this, like
you say, a religious, there's a cleansing.

01:13:12.300 --> 01:13:17.160
There's this calming a oneness
sort of experience about just being

01:13:17.160 --> 01:13:19.640
out in the woods or if you're a
Canadian being out in the bush.

01:13:20.370 --> 01:13:20.640
Yep.

01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:22.860
Um, and people will laugh at us.

01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:24.480
Oh, that bush, that bush right there.

01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:25.560
Which bush are you talking about?

01:13:25.650 --> 01:13:25.980
Right.

01:13:25.980 --> 01:13:28.680
But really, you, you get up in
the mountains, you get out in a

01:13:28.680 --> 01:13:33.210
little bit of isolation and, and
you know, I've had a past podcast

01:13:33.210 --> 01:13:35.190
guest, uh, Nikki, Nick Vandel.

01:13:35.190 --> 01:13:38.250
She was on alone, which is, uh,
TV show where they put you out in

01:13:38.250 --> 01:13:39.570
the woods and you gotta survive.

01:13:39.570 --> 01:13:41.400
And she did phenomenally well.

01:13:41.400 --> 01:13:44.010
And she's like, you can
do it in your backyard.

01:13:44.310 --> 01:13:45.870
You, you can go to a park and do it.

01:13:45.870 --> 01:13:48.180
You don't have to be like right
out in the middle of nowhere.

01:13:48.180 --> 01:13:51.450
You don't have to be doing something
extreme like what Zach is doing.

01:13:52.320 --> 01:13:54.390
You can still have those experiences.

01:13:55.470 --> 01:14:04.410
I, I just find it, I find it really
interesting how it seems with ai, with

01:14:05.310 --> 01:14:08.730
computers and everything else that,
uh, technology, the way that we're,

01:14:08.730 --> 01:14:14.670
we're working, um, We're trying so
hard to make everybody so connected,

01:14:14.670 --> 01:14:18.870
but yet how there's this fundamental
thread of being disconnected that

01:14:18.870 --> 01:14:22.950
seems to be running through most people
that I talk to, that I encounter.

01:14:22.980 --> 01:14:25.769
And I don't know if that's just
because I'm in an echo chamber or

01:14:25.769 --> 01:14:30.269
I'm surrounded by people of similar
kind of interests, or if there is

01:14:30.330 --> 01:14:34.080
a higher level of disconnectedness
from the fact that people just aren't

01:14:34.080 --> 01:14:36.269
experiencing the outdoors in the same way.

01:14:36.390 --> 01:14:36.960
I don't know.

01:14:37.050 --> 01:14:37.260
Yeah.

01:14:37.260 --> 01:14:37.769
What are your thoughts

01:14:37.775 --> 01:14:38.220
Zach Hanson: on that?

01:14:38.910 --> 01:14:39.180
Yeah.

01:14:39.184 --> 01:14:44.730
My perspective is, you know, writing
this book, so obviously my big

01:14:44.730 --> 01:14:46.860
social media is LinkedIn, right?

01:14:46.865 --> 01:14:49.740
It is goofy as that sound, you
know, professional networking site.

01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:56.760
But, you know, this past year, um,
as I wrote the book, I'd have pe you

01:14:56.765 --> 01:15:01.769
know, it was funny, I worked for a huge
company, you know, publicly traded.

01:15:01.860 --> 01:15:06.180
You know, I'm on calls with vendors
from Google, from wherever, and.

01:15:06.825 --> 01:15:08.580
, I just decided I, I don't care.

01:15:08.639 --> 01:15:11.280
Like I'm gonna be me, you
know, even if I get fired.

01:15:11.820 --> 01:15:15.269
So I'm showing up to these calls
with, you know, animals behind

01:15:15.269 --> 01:15:16.830
me in various states of undress.

01:15:16.830 --> 01:15:20.400
If I, like, I got blood on my hands
in the morning and I'm on a call.

01:15:20.400 --> 01:15:24.570
And what's funny is it sparks
a conversation and I, I was

01:15:24.599 --> 01:15:27.360
afraid, to be honest, I was
afraid that I was gonna get fired.

01:15:27.660 --> 01:15:30.630
You know, there's a lot of woke
cultures, things like that, you know,

01:15:30.630 --> 01:15:34.320
so I tried to be like cautious and
I'm not showing it off, you know, if

01:15:34.320 --> 01:15:37.080
it happens to be in the background,
that happens to be in the background.

01:15:37.860 --> 01:15:38.040
Yeah.

01:15:38.045 --> 01:15:43.440
But the amount of people in the
tech industry that I, you know,

01:15:43.469 --> 01:15:47.760
work with on a daily basis, they
might see it and not say anything.

01:15:48.120 --> 01:15:51.719
But without fail, I have gotten
so many messages from people

01:15:51.719 --> 01:15:53.580
saying, do you mind if we talk?

01:15:54.870 --> 01:15:58.920
And yeah, it's been amazing to get
on the call with these people, you

01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:02.370
know, who live in San Francisco,
live in New York, live in Austin,

01:16:02.760 --> 01:16:04.679
and you know, might not be getting.

01:16:05.370 --> 01:16:08.805
that dose of, I'm gonna call it reality.

01:16:08.805 --> 01:16:12.345
I don't mean like reality and you
know, like, uh, the way most people

01:16:12.345 --> 01:16:16.665
use it, like real outdoor experiences,
like what the earth and world really

01:16:16.665 --> 01:16:21.165
just is, which is, you know, violence
and meanness in the outdoor world.

01:16:21.555 --> 01:16:22.245
And Sure.

01:16:23.475 --> 01:16:23.685
They

01:16:23.685 --> 01:16:24.015
become,

01:16:24.015 --> 01:16:26.145
Travis Bader: there is no, there
is no mean, there is no nice here.

01:16:26.145 --> 01:16:27.255
This is,

01:16:27.795 --> 01:16:28.725
Zach Hanson: yeah, exactly.

01:16:28.725 --> 01:16:31.395
And a lot of times that's
violent and, you know, sure.

01:16:31.395 --> 01:16:35.085
A lot of times it's beautiful and
charming too, but, you know, there's,

01:16:35.115 --> 01:16:38.475
there's extremes and people started
to say, how are you doing that?

01:16:38.475 --> 01:16:42.045
Like, you know why, like, I, I'm very
curious, you know, there's a lot of

01:16:42.045 --> 01:16:46.005
curious people coming to me saying
like, I kind of have these feelings too.

01:16:46.010 --> 01:16:51.435
Like, I've been stuck in lockdown for two
years in my, you know, studio apartment

01:16:51.435 --> 01:16:55.545
in New York City with crack heads running
around, stabbing people outside, like.

01:16:56.430 --> 01:16:57.780
, is there a better place?

01:16:57.900 --> 01:17:00.510
I'm like, well, you know,
probably . Uh, yeah.

01:17:01.440 --> 01:17:06.180
But there's a lot of people out there
that are having these kind of innate,

01:17:06.184 --> 01:17:10.680
like you said, there's this common thread
of disconnectedness that people, Hmm.

01:17:10.740 --> 01:17:12.630
I believe, and again, I could be wrong.

01:17:12.635 --> 01:17:17.190
I always reserve the right to be
wrong, but you know, I believe that

01:17:18.809 --> 01:17:22.559
there is an innate feeling in all of
us to have a connectedness to nature.

01:17:22.590 --> 01:17:28.110
And like you said, technology, our society
is pushing us in a different direction.

01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:32.430
And I think with technology, people
were becoming a little hip to that, you

01:17:32.430 --> 01:17:36.059
know, even though they're being sucked
in and addictive features to the things

01:17:36.059 --> 01:17:42.360
were leveraging, there really is this
opportunity where there is information out

01:17:42.360 --> 01:17:44.040
there if you pull the thread a little bit.

01:17:44.519 --> 01:17:45.330
Um, mm.

01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:48.390
You know, there, uh, I don't know if
you've had the chance to read it, but

01:17:48.390 --> 01:17:50.760
I'm gonna go on this little diatribe
because I think it's really important.

01:17:51.825 --> 01:17:51.975
Okay.

01:17:51.975 --> 01:17:55.725
At the end of the book, um,
I mentioned this short story.

01:17:56.055 --> 01:17:59.295
I think that it's written by Em Forester.

01:17:59.685 --> 01:18:01.575
This story was written in 1907.

01:18:01.575 --> 01:18:02.325
You can Google it.

01:18:02.325 --> 01:18:05.745
It's called, uh, the
Machine Stops, I Believe.

01:18:05.745 --> 01:18:08.505
Or when the Machine Stops, you'll,
you'll have to fact check me

01:18:08.505 --> 01:18:10.125
there, but you can look it up.

01:18:10.125 --> 01:18:12.315
You see Berkeley has like the 27 pages.

01:18:12.975 --> 01:18:18.195
This story was written in 1907, and this
guy writes this story and paints this

01:18:18.195 --> 01:18:22.665
picture where the whole world has kind
of migrated to the core of the earth and

01:18:22.665 --> 01:18:24.765
everybody has assigned their own rooms.

01:18:25.065 --> 01:18:26.385
They've betrayed the earth.

01:18:26.415 --> 01:18:29.805
You know, they don't want oxygen, they
want this to machine, to provide for 'em.

01:18:30.225 --> 01:18:35.115
All they care about is higher
education and philosophy.

01:18:35.475 --> 01:18:37.425
So essentially all these people are.

01:18:38.730 --> 01:18:40.980
and then they're taken to their own
room, which might be on the other

01:18:40.980 --> 01:18:42.299
side of the earth from their parents.

01:18:42.690 --> 01:18:46.610
They're provided for, they can
FaceTime this guy, predicted FaceTime

01:18:46.615 --> 01:18:48.000
with people across the world.

01:18:48.269 --> 01:18:51.480
You know, all they're trying to
do is just become more educated.

01:18:52.139 --> 01:18:55.410
But the story goes, this mother is in
this thing and she's irritated by her

01:18:55.410 --> 01:18:56.969
son calling her from across the world.

01:18:56.969 --> 01:18:58.440
He is like, I need you to come see me.

01:18:58.860 --> 01:19:01.830
And it was very rare for people
to actually go and see them.

01:19:02.130 --> 01:19:04.830
So this writer also predicted air travel.

01:19:05.309 --> 01:19:08.759
So the mother gets on this plane,
leaves like the underground

01:19:08.759 --> 01:19:09.990
colony and flies over.

01:19:09.990 --> 01:19:14.910
And part of the story is her kind of
sitting in this plane looking down at

01:19:14.910 --> 01:19:19.530
the beautiful, you know, bear Himalayas
just disgusted that, you know, how could

01:19:19.530 --> 01:19:24.360
people have ever wanted to be in that
like violent, you know, barren place

01:19:24.360 --> 01:19:30.330
of, you know, trouble and struggle
and everything else, and then lands.

01:19:30.330 --> 01:19:33.330
And you know, her son is like,
I found a way out like this.

01:19:33.330 --> 01:19:34.650
There's something better out there.

01:19:34.650 --> 01:19:36.210
And the mom's like, no, you're crazy.

01:19:36.615 --> 01:19:39.015
. And you know, the story ends
with the sun kind of like

01:19:39.020 --> 01:19:40.365
climbing up through this thing.

01:19:40.365 --> 01:19:44.295
As the machine breaks down and people
start dying underground because, you

01:19:44.300 --> 01:19:49.485
know, they're reliant on this apparatus
and the sun is the one who kind of

01:19:49.485 --> 01:19:53.565
kinda climbs up through the rafters
and makes it to the earth and finds

01:19:53.570 --> 01:19:55.035
other people who had escaped too.

01:19:55.035 --> 01:19:57.705
And they're like, you know, this is,
you know, he was afraid to breathe air

01:19:57.705 --> 01:19:58.995
for the first time, but then he did.

01:19:58.995 --> 01:20:00.655
He, oh my God, this is it.

01:20:00.945 --> 01:20:05.085
So that story is so apropo for
what we're talking about, which is

01:20:05.535 --> 01:20:09.585
there's this innate need, like, it,
it feels so good to be provided for.

01:20:09.585 --> 01:20:14.505
It feels so good to have creature
comforts, but there's a beauty and

01:20:14.505 --> 01:20:19.365
struggle, and there's no better place
to find struggle than in nature.

01:20:19.845 --> 01:20:23.235
And to kind of get back in touch
with that innate feeling, I believe,

01:20:24.255 --> 01:20:24.915
Travis Bader: I like that.

01:20:24.915 --> 01:20:26.415
I, I'm right on side with you.

01:20:27.285 --> 01:20:30.375
You can't be happy if you've
had everything given to you.

01:20:30.975 --> 01:20:31.975
That struggle is.

01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:38.880
That learning process, those difficulties,
that overcoming the building, that's

01:20:40.170 --> 01:20:42.270
happiness is a byproduct of all of that.

01:20:42.690 --> 01:20:47.070
If you try and shortcut all of that,
if you Cooper responsibility of your

01:20:47.070 --> 01:20:53.280
food gathering in your harvesting
air quotes here of animals to the

01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:59.610
butcher, to the grocery store, to
Costco delivery, you are doing away

01:20:59.610 --> 01:21:00.840
with that struggle and your struggles.

01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:00.930
Now.

01:21:00.930 --> 01:21:02.370
People are still gonna have struggles.

01:21:02.550 --> 01:21:04.350
They're just gonna be different struggles.

01:21:04.470 --> 01:21:08.220
Oh, my Costco delivery was an hour
late instead of when I was, that

01:21:08.225 --> 01:21:09.480
means I missed my appointment.

01:21:09.480 --> 01:21:09.750
Right.

01:21:09.755 --> 01:21:14.970
And I, and I think that's
where the, um, I don't know the

01:21:14.970 --> 01:21:17.550
reality of, of living starts to.

01:21:18.510 --> 01:21:19.290
go askew.

01:21:19.650 --> 01:21:21.870
Like what, what's important to a person?

01:21:22.110 --> 01:21:25.860
What is important is like, to me,
what's important to me, well, I

01:21:25.865 --> 01:21:27.060
wanna make sure that I'm healthy.

01:21:27.180 --> 01:21:29.400
I wanna make sure I'm healthy
so I can look after my family

01:21:29.405 --> 01:21:30.270
and that they're healthy.

01:21:30.850 --> 01:21:31.520
Um mm-hmm.

01:21:31.740 --> 01:21:33.200
, and then my friend network.

01:21:33.200 --> 01:21:36.810
And I wanna make sure that I
have time to be able to allot the

01:21:36.810 --> 01:21:41.760
appropriate amount of time for my
family, my friends, myself, um, works

01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:43.140
pretty far down there on the list.

01:21:43.140 --> 01:21:46.500
It's an important thing that needs to be
done so that we can, we can live, we can

01:21:46.500 --> 01:21:48.990
do our things, but push comes to shove.

01:21:49.260 --> 01:21:50.670
I mean, what is, what's that saying?

01:21:50.730 --> 01:21:52.350
A rich man has many wants.

01:21:52.740 --> 01:21:54.090
A sick man has only one.

01:21:54.180 --> 01:21:54.540
Right.

01:21:55.410 --> 01:21:59.100
Um, what is it that makes you happy?

01:22:00.410 --> 01:22:00.900
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

01:22:00.905 --> 01:22:01.140
Yeah.

01:22:01.170 --> 01:22:04.410
Well, nothing's been cooler.

01:22:04.410 --> 01:22:09.420
No trapping, no animal, like hands
down, being a dad is the coolest

01:22:09.420 --> 01:22:10.560
fricking thing in the world.

01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:14.940
And part of that whole idea of being a
dad for me is like, I'm now getting to

01:22:14.940 --> 01:22:20.174
share some of these things that, you know,
are, Still a new exciting thing for me.

01:22:20.174 --> 01:22:20.894
Trapping and hunting.

01:22:20.894 --> 01:22:23.235
Like, I took my daughter in
a sled out to check the trap

01:22:23.235 --> 01:22:24.554
lines the other day in the snow.

01:22:24.554 --> 01:22:25.365
She had a blast.

01:22:25.665 --> 01:22:28.785
You know, she was, you know, petting the
dead beaver and trying to give it a hug.

01:22:28.785 --> 01:22:30.615
I'm like, all right, well
let's, let's not do that.

01:22:30.615 --> 01:22:34.785
But, you know, sure, being
a dad truly makes me happy.

01:22:34.790 --> 01:22:39.165
So family, I is the nutshell,
like family is important to me.

01:22:39.495 --> 01:22:43.695
You know, clearly becoming
more connected with nature.

01:22:43.695 --> 01:22:47.235
And, you know, I do wanna say for
people listening too, like we've

01:22:47.235 --> 01:22:49.815
talked about my all in approach, right?

01:22:50.174 --> 01:22:53.025
That was right for me, and I
happened to have the right time

01:22:53.030 --> 01:22:54.315
and opportunity to do that.

01:22:54.315 --> 01:23:00.554
But kinda like you said, you know, you
don't have to do that to start introducing

01:23:00.644 --> 01:23:04.365
little bits of wildness to kind of get
reconnected with that common thread.

01:23:04.365 --> 01:23:05.205
We all have.

01:23:05.415 --> 01:23:09.285
You know, it might be going to do
a, a pig butchering class where you

01:23:09.285 --> 01:23:10.634
would normally get your meat anyways.

01:23:10.634 --> 01:23:17.474
It might be taking a walk outside the,
you know, Opportunity is truly endless.

01:23:17.474 --> 01:23:19.815
And there's a spectrum, and I'm
on one end of that spectrum,

01:23:19.815 --> 01:23:20.594
and that's worked for me.

01:23:20.594 --> 01:23:23.264
And anybody who wants
to do it, good on you.

01:23:23.294 --> 01:23:24.434
It you'll learn a lot.

01:23:24.884 --> 01:23:29.684
But there's, you know, stepping stones
you can take along the way to kind of

01:23:29.684 --> 01:23:33.794
beat that down and, you know, beat the
monotony and, you know, I'm not immune to

01:23:33.794 --> 01:23:35.504
falling back into some of my old habits.

01:23:35.504 --> 01:23:38.445
You know, like I said, we ended
up buying a place in Boise,

01:23:38.445 --> 01:23:39.615
so we had a place to land.

01:23:39.620 --> 01:23:41.174
And when we're here mm-hmm.

01:23:41.344 --> 01:23:44.134
, we do DoorDash, we do, uh, , you know.

01:23:44.134 --> 01:23:44.334
Yeah.

01:23:44.339 --> 01:23:48.554
You know, our delivery and those
creature comforts are still nice.

01:23:48.554 --> 01:23:53.355
It's not like I'm, you know, fully out in
the woods all the time when my pitch fork,

01:23:53.384 --> 01:23:54.945
you know, telling people to stay away.

01:23:55.365 --> 01:24:00.584
But it's, well, I figured out
what works for me to kind of

01:24:00.584 --> 01:24:02.235
keep that level that I need.

01:24:02.235 --> 01:24:06.554
And, you know, for me, like when I am
in Boise, a city of 200,000 people,

01:24:06.974 --> 01:24:10.695
it feels like when I used to live in
Moscow or Riyad Saudi Arabia, like it

01:24:10.695 --> 01:24:14.054
feels like a million person city and
I can only take so much before I'm

01:24:14.054 --> 01:24:18.600
like, You know, once you're free, you
can't really go back kind of situation.

01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:22.380
Like once you've tasted the
marrow, uh, you know, real Yeah.

01:24:22.380 --> 01:24:23.460
Like the solitude,

01:24:24.170 --> 01:24:27.120
Travis Bader: like the chapter title of
one of your, well, in your book, one of

01:24:27.120 --> 01:24:28.560
the chapter titles, tasting the Marrow.

01:24:29.130 --> 01:24:30.140
Um, yeah.

01:24:31.005 --> 01:24:35.355
You know, I remember reading a
study once about road rage and

01:24:35.415 --> 01:24:40.575
there was a correlation on road
rage incidents and population size.

01:24:40.995 --> 01:24:45.645
And they said essentially, and I mean
it makes sense, but essentially under a

01:24:45.650 --> 01:24:50.505
certain population side, the preponderance
of road rage was next to nothing.

01:24:50.805 --> 01:24:54.585
But once you reach a certain threshold,
and I forget what it is, all of a sudden

01:24:54.645 --> 01:24:58.995
the people in your community don't
become people in your mind anymore.

01:24:59.115 --> 01:25:03.495
For most people it's just, it's just a
car or someone or something just cut me

01:25:03.495 --> 01:25:08.445
off and I'm, I'm, I'm upset in a small
enough, uh, metric small community.

01:25:08.715 --> 01:25:11.445
And it's like, ah,
there's, there's Bob again.

01:25:11.445 --> 01:25:12.465
He's probably drunk.

01:25:12.465 --> 01:25:15.165
Or there's Janice, you
know, she's pretty old.

01:25:15.165 --> 01:25:16.845
And you just, you just kinda let it go.

01:25:16.845 --> 01:25:20.985
But there's a dehumanization process
that happens in people's minds

01:25:21.375 --> 01:25:23.385
over a certain population size.

01:25:24.275 --> 01:25:25.174
And yeah.

01:25:25.844 --> 01:25:26.335
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

01:25:26.474 --> 01:25:27.344
That's beautiful.

01:25:27.644 --> 01:25:31.455
And not beautiful in the fact that,
you know, that happens, but it's true.

01:25:31.455 --> 01:25:32.684
And that, that happened to me.

01:25:32.684 --> 01:25:34.575
And I, I, I lived that, right?

01:25:34.575 --> 01:25:37.724
I was living in these big cities
before I went to, you know,

01:25:38.295 --> 01:25:40.485
Idaho, of a town of 35 people.

01:25:40.490 --> 01:25:44.085
And in the book I talk about, like,
I had no interest in being a part

01:25:44.085 --> 01:25:45.464
of that community when I went there.

01:25:45.464 --> 01:25:48.375
Like, I was there to like
isolate, learn to hunt and

01:25:48.375 --> 01:25:50.745
trap, you know, neighbors fine.

01:25:50.745 --> 01:25:55.696
But I got sucked in, um, you know,
by hooker, by book, you know,

01:25:55.701 --> 01:25:59.130
like, you know, Neighbor had to
help me learn how to open a flu.

01:25:59.130 --> 01:26:00.840
And then I'm like, oh
yeah, I'm Zack, by the way.

01:26:00.840 --> 01:26:02.100
You're like, oh yeah, you're the new guy.

01:26:02.100 --> 01:26:03.080
I'm like, no, that's me,

01:26:03.650 --> 01:26:06.480
Um, but it, it happened that way.

01:26:06.480 --> 01:26:10.860
And there was that dehumanization of, you
know, I had been so burned by these big

01:26:10.860 --> 01:26:15.510
cities and this tiredness that I felt and
that, you know, dehumanization like, yeah.

01:26:15.510 --> 01:26:18.330
Someone driving down the street, that
asshole, you know, they're cutting me off.

01:26:18.330 --> 01:26:20.280
Like, oh, what I would do to them.

01:26:20.280 --> 01:26:21.150
But now you're right.

01:26:21.150 --> 01:26:25.080
Like, it doesn't mean people don't
piss you off, cuz they do, but you

01:26:25.085 --> 01:26:29.250
know who it is and you know more about
their life experience, what they're

01:26:29.250 --> 01:26:32.700
going through in any given time, or you
might be the one more understanding.

01:26:33.310 --> 01:26:34.240
Yeah, yeah.

01:26:34.320 --> 01:26:38.190
It goes both ways, but it's, uh, that
was a big learning experience for me too.

01:26:38.190 --> 01:26:42.180
It almost, you know, I took the hunting
and trapping is great, but it also

01:26:42.180 --> 01:26:47.070
just re-grounded me as a human and made
me appreciate, like, despite the bs,

01:26:47.370 --> 01:26:53.025
despite the polarization, despite the,
you know, Pressure from social media

01:26:53.025 --> 01:26:56.655
one way or the other, an algorithm
pushing certain things down your throat.

01:26:56.655 --> 01:26:57.584
Like we're all humans.

01:26:57.884 --> 01:26:59.384
We all have stories to tell.

01:26:59.565 --> 01:27:01.785
Some of us are innately bad,
I'm sure, but you know, for

01:27:01.785 --> 01:27:03.134
the most part people are great.

01:27:03.464 --> 01:27:06.134
You know, I learned that yeah,
a long time ago and forgot it.

01:27:06.134 --> 01:27:08.745
Like I lived in Russia,
I lived in Saudi Arabia.

01:27:08.745 --> 01:27:11.955
You think of like all the kind of bad
actor states in a lot of our minds, like

01:27:12.344 --> 01:27:13.995
the people I met, they're on the ground.

01:27:14.325 --> 01:27:17.294
Some of the most amazing, beautiful
human beings I've ever had the

01:27:17.294 --> 01:27:22.485
privilege of talking with and
conversing with and breaking bread with.

01:27:22.785 --> 01:27:25.875
And you know, my journey back
in the States ironically kind

01:27:25.879 --> 01:27:26.865
of broke that down in me.

01:27:26.905 --> 01:27:28.785
And when we were living in
these big cities, like you said,

01:27:28.785 --> 01:27:29.174
Travis Bader: money.

01:27:30.134 --> 01:27:33.915
So you, you took that conversation to
the next place where I was gonna take it.

01:27:34.424 --> 01:27:35.865
Awesome segue on your part.

01:27:35.865 --> 01:27:39.105
But that was an, that was something
that I picked up on in reading

01:27:39.105 --> 01:27:43.245
your book and maybe I'm reading too
far into it, maybe I'm not, you'll

01:27:43.250 --> 01:27:45.764
let me know, but I got the sense.

01:27:46.184 --> 01:27:50.205
That you wanted to be away from
everybody, only to find at the end

01:27:50.294 --> 01:27:54.315
that it is a people around you that
really kind of made you feel whole.

01:27:54.714 --> 01:27:55.134
Yep.

01:27:55.139 --> 01:27:57.794
Uh, is, is that an accurate
reading of your book?

01:27:58.365 --> 01:27:58.785
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

01:27:58.785 --> 01:28:00.405
And we've touched on
it a little bit, right?

01:28:00.410 --> 01:28:01.605
Like a hundred percent.

01:28:01.634 --> 01:28:01.695
Yeah.

01:28:01.700 --> 01:28:04.004
You know, I went out
there to defy everybody.

01:28:04.304 --> 01:28:08.355
I was feeding my own ego in that
moment to say, I don't need my

01:28:08.355 --> 01:28:10.214
ex-wife, I don't need anybody.

01:28:10.214 --> 01:28:12.705
Like, I can go and I
will learn to survive.

01:28:13.365 --> 01:28:17.565
And I didn't, you know, I screwed,
you know, left to my own devices.

01:28:17.565 --> 01:28:22.004
I would've been like, had a handful
of traps, a bow, and been even

01:28:22.004 --> 01:28:23.474
skinnier than I already am now.

01:28:23.745 --> 01:28:28.785
Um, begging someone for food and even
going to the trapping community, right?

01:28:28.785 --> 01:28:33.344
Like, I wasn't expecting to be immersed in
that, but they welcomed me with open arms.

01:28:33.405 --> 01:28:37.125
Um, you know, it's, there's just
been a welcoming community overall.

01:28:37.129 --> 01:28:37.844
And when I kind of.

01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:43.320
, it wasn't my own doing that
made me break down that barrier.

01:28:43.320 --> 01:28:46.410
It was nature doing it for
me in a lot of respects.

01:28:46.410 --> 01:28:47.610
So I'm appreciative of that.

01:28:48.089 --> 01:28:52.019
But it got me there and now I'm
very appreciative of my community.

01:28:52.019 --> 01:28:56.759
I, you know, am back to appreciating
it in a much better light and

01:28:56.759 --> 01:29:00.299
realizing that, you know, yeah, there
might be some people who could go

01:29:00.299 --> 01:29:03.330
out there and do it by themselves,
but I'm not that guy is the point.

01:29:03.330 --> 01:29:06.240
You know, there are people like
that, but it's not me and I

01:29:06.240 --> 01:29:07.440
don't think it's a lot of people.

01:29:07.445 --> 01:29:10.500
Travis Bader: Yeah, I think a lot of
people have this imagination that it could

01:29:10.500 --> 01:29:14.280
be them or it is them, but the reality
of it, I think we need each other and

01:29:14.280 --> 01:29:18.000
we need to figure a way to be able to
communicate with each other and get along.

01:29:18.150 --> 01:29:21.419
And, you know, being out in the
woods, being out in a smaller

01:29:21.419 --> 01:29:24.799
population allows you the ability
to, uh, maybe do that a bit.

01:29:25.875 --> 01:29:28.724
So I know you're not
really on social media.

01:29:28.785 --> 01:29:33.375
Um, we did put some questions out
to the Silvercore Club members

01:29:33.795 --> 01:29:35.715
and as well on social media.

01:29:35.720 --> 01:29:39.135
We got a couple of questions and I got one
just, you know, from a personal interest.

01:29:39.139 --> 01:29:42.795
It'll probably segue really well
back into something that, that you

01:29:42.795 --> 01:29:44.985
said earlier when we were talking.

01:29:45.355 --> 01:29:49.335
But a couple questions that we
got, uh, one person says, uh, what

01:29:49.735 --> 01:29:52.365
techniques and methods did you
learn that could assist someone else

01:29:52.485 --> 01:29:54.315
looking to write their own book?

01:29:56.055 --> 01:29:56.745
Zach Hanson: So, is there anything?

01:29:57.405 --> 01:29:58.965
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.

01:29:59.115 --> 01:30:04.755
Um, I have a golden rule and I had
written a book before self-published,

01:30:04.785 --> 01:30:05.985
didn't go with a publisher.

01:30:06.285 --> 01:30:08.955
Um, I worked with a publisher.

01:30:08.955 --> 01:30:11.295
I worked with Tucker Max and
that crew down there, and he

01:30:11.715 --> 01:30:13.785
taught me genuinely how to write.

01:30:13.965 --> 01:30:15.255
Um, you know, I knew how to.

01:30:16.320 --> 01:30:19.530
, but I was always in this vein
of, you know, again, ego.

01:30:19.890 --> 01:30:22.800
I would write something, you
know, write a couple paragraphs

01:30:22.800 --> 01:30:25.380
and I'd be like, oh yeah, Zack,
that's, that's pretty damn good.

01:30:25.560 --> 01:30:28.590
And then I'd immediately go back and
start editing it, you know, like just

01:30:28.590 --> 01:30:30.450
tweaking it and focusing on this.

01:30:31.050 --> 01:30:32.700
And then I never really got that far.

01:30:32.700 --> 01:30:35.910
So one of the things that they
taught for me and writing a book

01:30:35.910 --> 01:30:37.440
is this idea of a vomit draft.

01:30:37.860 --> 01:30:42.450
So genuinely, if you have an
idea for a book, create an

01:30:42.450 --> 01:30:45.870
outline and do not stop writing.

01:30:45.930 --> 01:30:51.000
Meaning from chapter one to
chapter 40, whatever it is, start

01:30:51.005 --> 01:30:53.130
at chapter one and just write.

01:30:53.310 --> 01:30:56.160
And then when you get to a
stopping point, you do not go

01:30:56.160 --> 01:30:57.720
back and reread what you wrote.

01:30:57.780 --> 01:30:58.800
And there's techniques for that.

01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:02.790
Like, I actually ended up like blacking
out with a highlighter what was before it.

01:31:03.060 --> 01:31:06.150
So when I came back the next day, I
might leave like a half a sentence so

01:31:06.155 --> 01:31:07.680
I could understand where I left off.

01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:08.370
Mm-hmm.

01:31:08.450 --> 01:31:08.970
and I'd pick up.

01:31:09.660 --> 01:31:12.090
And that way you actually
get words on paper.

01:31:12.120 --> 01:31:15.210
Now that makes the editing
process that much more of a bear.

01:31:15.535 --> 01:31:16.055
. Mm-hmm.

01:31:16.135 --> 01:31:18.735
. But you already have this
turb to polish, right?

01:31:18.735 --> 01:31:20.855
So you gotta get that on paper, right.

01:31:21.140 --> 01:31:23.985
. Um, that's, you know,
that's changed my approach.

01:31:23.985 --> 01:31:28.155
So like, now I actually have
another book coming out next week.

01:31:28.455 --> 01:31:29.655
You'll be able to check it on Amazon.

01:31:29.655 --> 01:31:33.315
It's my first foray into fiction,
historical fiction, uh, okay.

01:31:33.315 --> 01:31:35.595
The Western genre from the 1860s.

01:31:35.985 --> 01:31:39.345
Um, and I just got in the mode
of writing, so I write every day.

01:31:39.345 --> 01:31:42.735
So I wrote a whole nother book, shopped
it around to a publisher, and now I

01:31:42.735 --> 01:31:47.505
have a three book contract deal for
a Western series, um, halfway through

01:31:47.625 --> 01:31:49.215
the second book in that series.

01:31:49.215 --> 01:31:51.345
And I'm on the hook for another
one by the end of the year.

01:31:51.345 --> 01:31:54.335
But it's all taking that vomit draft, so.

01:31:54.885 --> 01:31:55.185
Very good.

01:31:55.185 --> 01:31:55.965
Get it on paper.

01:31:56.295 --> 01:31:56.535
Yep.

01:31:56.535 --> 01:31:57.975
Get it on paper is the key.

01:31:58.365 --> 01:32:00.645
Uh, then go back and edit it.

01:32:00.650 --> 01:32:04.635
Just do not, whatever you
do, do not edit as you go.

01:32:05.505 --> 01:32:05.805
Just.

01:32:07.230 --> 01:32:08.040
Travis Bader: Good advice.

01:32:08.970 --> 01:32:09.210
Okay.

01:32:09.210 --> 01:32:12.960
This next question is, and it's
one that I actually will struggle

01:32:12.965 --> 01:32:14.790
with, uh, is both switching gears.

01:32:14.790 --> 01:32:18.270
Is it difficult to jump back and
forth between the off-grid life

01:32:18.990 --> 01:32:20.130
and then being the tech guy?

01:32:20.220 --> 01:32:21.840
Is it hard for you to switch gears?

01:32:23.010 --> 01:32:29.990
Zach Hanson: Um, it's, it was
when I kept them separate.

01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:30.810
Mm-hmm.

01:32:31.050 --> 01:32:37.260
meaning like, it was difficult when
I put on my full facade of shirt and

01:32:37.260 --> 01:32:42.720
tie Zach, you know, at the office
blurring my background and, you

01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:45.750
know, being the stuffy asshole that
we all are in our corporate lives.

01:32:46.020 --> 01:32:50.400
Um, what made it easier is when, you
know, I really just decided like,

01:32:50.405 --> 01:32:51.660
you know, why, why am I bothering?

01:32:51.660 --> 01:32:56.220
Like, if people are who I think
they are, which they have turned out

01:32:56.220 --> 01:32:57.450
to be, they're gonna be accepting.

01:32:57.450 --> 01:33:01.080
And as long as I'm not being
gaudy with like, again, a dead.

01:33:01.965 --> 01:33:04.005
Animal behind me that's half skinned.

01:33:04.275 --> 01:33:06.195
You know, that's me being an asshole.

01:33:06.434 --> 01:33:10.575
But if I'm just being me and presenting
myself as who I am and being open to

01:33:10.575 --> 01:33:13.815
talk to people about it, or someone
asked me about my weekend not being

01:33:13.815 --> 01:33:19.005
afraid to say, yeah, I was out on my trap
line, um, you know, that has helped me

01:33:19.005 --> 01:33:20.894
bridge that gap is just being authentic.

01:33:20.894 --> 01:33:20.985
Mm-hmm.

01:33:21.224 --> 01:33:26.505
, now I get not everybody is in that
position to be able to do that.

01:33:26.925 --> 01:33:32.474
Um, but that was a commitment I made
to myself and it's actually, I would

01:33:32.474 --> 01:33:36.375
say helped me more in my professional
life because I've actually built more

01:33:36.375 --> 01:33:39.195
relationships with people, even people
who don't hunter trap, but are just

01:33:39.195 --> 01:33:43.245
curious and, you know, building an
actual personal relationship with them.

01:33:43.665 --> 01:33:48.945
Um, but again, I, that's how I bridge
the gap again, realizing that's not.

01:33:50.460 --> 01:33:54.960
Not everybody in a job is
probably in a position to do that

01:33:54.960 --> 01:33:57.000
without fear of losing their job.

01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:00.480
So that's not my advice to go
just be willy-nilly about it.

01:34:02.310 --> 01:34:02.760
. 
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:34:02.820 --> 01:34:06.750
But hey, find, find what's true to you
and it makes it easier, essentially.

01:34:07.210 --> 01:34:07.700
Yeah.

01:34:07.890 --> 01:34:08.400
Um, for sure.

01:34:09.270 --> 01:34:14.190
So another person says, is this something
that you see yourself doing in your

01:34:14.190 --> 01:34:16.410
old age or is it a young person's game?

01:34:18.660 --> 01:34:21.390
Zach Hanson: Um, I'm gonna take that
question as like hunting or, and trapping.

01:34:21.590 --> 01:34:21.830
That's,

01:34:21.830 --> 01:34:22.770
Travis Bader: that's
kind of how I figured it.

01:34:22.775 --> 01:34:22.980
Yeah.

01:34:22.985 --> 01:34:24.480
Or living in a remote community.

01:34:25.230 --> 01:34:25.590
Zach Hanson: Yeah.

01:34:25.595 --> 01:34:26.190
It's funny.

01:34:26.400 --> 01:34:32.460
Um, we have some hardy, hardy
people in Atlanta, Idaho.

01:34:32.700 --> 01:34:38.250
Um, when someone asked me that, there's
a woman there, a single woman, she's

01:34:38.310 --> 01:34:40.650
a little hunchback, trouble walking.

01:34:40.680 --> 01:34:41.820
Her name is Sandy.

01:34:41.850 --> 01:34:45.360
She lives in our community by
herself with a blue healer dog.

01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:48.450
She's 85 years old.

01:34:49.830 --> 01:34:50.700
Lives by herself.

01:34:50.730 --> 01:34:51.900
I mean, she relies on the community.

01:34:51.900 --> 01:34:54.690
Like a lot of us will help like go
chop some wood, take it to her house.

01:34:54.690 --> 01:34:56.580
But this woman is free.

01:34:56.640 --> 01:34:57.960
She's the sweetest woman.

01:34:58.200 --> 01:34:59.850
She's had an interesting life.

01:34:59.850 --> 01:35:06.870
But you know, now kids, grandkids grown,
gone, husband gone and she is proud and

01:35:06.870 --> 01:35:09.360
lives this off-grid tough lifestyle.

01:35:09.570 --> 01:35:11.730
She's gotta build fires every day.

01:35:11.970 --> 01:35:13.650
She's gotta cook for herself.

01:35:13.860 --> 01:35:17.070
You know, she's out walking with
a little stick all the time.

01:35:17.075 --> 01:35:18.750
She's snowshoeing in the winter.

01:35:19.050 --> 01:35:20.670
Like that's my idol.

01:35:20.820 --> 01:35:22.140
So the answer is yes.

01:35:22.200 --> 01:35:22.260
Wow.

01:35:22.350 --> 01:35:23.220
I sure hope so.

01:35:23.220 --> 01:35:27.480
Like as long as I can physically do
it and you know, if my wife and I are

01:35:27.480 --> 01:35:31.290
still around, you know, when we're
in that old of an age, I sure hope

01:35:31.650 --> 01:35:33.330
that I can live that hardy lifestyle.

01:35:33.360 --> 01:35:36.150
Cause I think she's
getting longevity from it.

01:35:36.480 --> 01:35:37.950
Um, that's my observation.

01:35:37.955 --> 01:35:38.010
Yeah.

01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:40.440
And I hope I'm in the same boat.

01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:41.550
God willing.

01:35:42.360 --> 01:35:42.690
Very

01:35:42.690 --> 01:35:43.110
Travis Bader: cool.

01:35:44.040 --> 01:35:47.220
Um, next one last question
that we uh, cuz we.

01:35:47.850 --> 01:35:51.330
Had a few in there, but we've
already kind of gone over some of

01:35:51.330 --> 01:35:52.350
the questions that have been asked.

01:35:52.350 --> 01:35:54.600
So I've just been, uh, calling
through has been going.

01:35:55.080 --> 01:36:00.150
Uh, what, what conveniences do you miss,
if any, when living in a remote community?

01:36:01.350 --> 01:36:01.710
Yeah.

01:36:01.710 --> 01:36:05.160
Zach Hanson: Well, so we
have no grocery store.

01:36:05.160 --> 01:36:09.120
We have no gas station, and
we have one bar restaurant.

01:36:09.450 --> 01:36:11.670
And I love the owners.

01:36:11.700 --> 01:36:18.240
They're, they're great, but you know,
the menu diversity is not very wide , you

01:36:18.245 --> 01:36:20.200
know, it's like grilled cheeseburger.

01:36:20.670 --> 01:36:21.510
Yeah, exactly.

01:36:21.510 --> 01:36:21.810
Yeah.

01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:23.040
Precisely.

01:36:23.310 --> 01:36:27.030
And, you know, yeah, it's great cuz
we do our own meal prepping up there.

01:36:27.030 --> 01:36:30.510
We eat a lot of the wild game, we do
all that, but boy do we miss sushi.

01:36:30.750 --> 01:36:35.190
So like, there is, when we do come
down to like Boise, you know, we have

01:36:35.195 --> 01:36:39.120
a hit list, you know, we're like doing
sushi one night, we're doing, you

01:36:39.120 --> 01:36:42.510
know, takeout Chinese the other, and
you know, for that like couple days

01:36:42.510 --> 01:36:47.100
or weeks, like by the time we leave
Boise, , you know, we are like sick.

01:36:47.100 --> 01:36:48.780
We're like, we don't
want to eat out again.

01:36:49.200 --> 01:36:50.310
. And we do it every time.

01:36:50.310 --> 01:36:51.510
So we don't learn our lesson.

01:36:51.510 --> 01:36:52.720
But uh, yeah.

01:36:52.860 --> 01:36:55.230
Yeah, I think just like
some of the food, right.

01:36:55.230 --> 01:36:59.610
You know, like I said, yeah, I could
see that we love eating wild game, all

01:36:59.610 --> 01:37:01.350
that stuff, but man, we're still humans.

01:37:01.350 --> 01:37:04.680
We're not like super athletes
now, like all performance based.

01:37:04.680 --> 01:37:06.480
So we like our creature comfort.

01:37:06.480 --> 01:37:09.390
So food is definitely
the, the hardest for us.

01:37:09.390 --> 01:37:14.070
And you know, there's the electricity
issues right off grid, but you know,

01:37:14.075 --> 01:37:18.360
we kinda lean into that because the
best thing, and I hope my employer's

01:37:18.360 --> 01:37:23.600
not listening, but when you don't have
cell phone service and you know, your

01:37:23.700 --> 01:37:27.450
generator's out of gas or whatever else,
and you know, the power goes out for a

01:37:27.450 --> 01:37:31.410
few days, do you kinda get like a three
or four day like impromptu vacation?

01:37:31.410 --> 01:37:34.380
And that can be stressful in some
situations if there's important stuff.

01:37:34.710 --> 01:37:37.200
And that might force you
to drive down to the city.

01:37:37.560 --> 01:37:40.620
But if you can lean into it a little
bit, even if it's for a day, like,

01:37:40.890 --> 01:37:45.150
it's so nice to just like surprise
be jolted back into the 18 hundreds

01:37:45.150 --> 01:37:47.250
and you're like, well, here we are.

01:37:48.360 --> 01:37:49.620
Travis Bader: That sounds amazing.

01:37:50.140 --> 01:37:54.390
I I do like it whenever, you know,
whenever, even in the urban area where I

01:37:54.390 --> 01:37:59.400
live, um, power goes out, things are down.

01:37:59.460 --> 01:38:00.420
I always embrace it.

01:38:00.420 --> 01:38:02.850
I love it because it's
so hard to turn it off.

01:38:02.850 --> 01:38:05.970
Otherwise it's, uh, well,
I gotta be there for work.

01:38:05.975 --> 01:38:07.680
Well, I gotta do whatever it might be.

01:38:08.250 --> 01:38:11.760
Now you gotta, you have an excuse and
may be really what I should be doing.

01:38:11.765 --> 01:38:13.769
It's just making that excuse for myself.

01:38:14.250 --> 01:38:17.580
Zach Hanson: Well, it's funny, I'm,
uh, I, I talk about it a little bit in

01:38:17.580 --> 01:38:19.320
the book, but I'll expand briefly here.

01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:22.890
Like, when I first got out there and
we'd have these frequent power issues

01:38:22.894 --> 01:38:25.440
and the internet would go down, we
have no cell reception, so when the

01:38:25.620 --> 01:38:27.540
power's out, you're disconnected.

01:38:27.570 --> 01:38:27.660
Mm-hmm.

01:38:28.190 --> 01:38:31.710
. So I had a little garment spot, and I
talk about in the book, like at first,

01:38:31.710 --> 01:38:34.470
for the first several months, like every
time that would go out and I'd be in

01:38:34.470 --> 01:38:36.180
a meeting or have meetings scheduled.

01:38:36.809 --> 01:38:39.134
, I'd literally have stomach
pains because I felt like I was

01:38:39.134 --> 01:38:40.695
missing out and all this stuff.

01:38:40.695 --> 01:38:43.684
I'd get on my garment and I'd
like message my boss and they'd

01:38:43.684 --> 01:38:46.514
be like, well, okay, you're off
grid, so why are you messaging me?

01:38:46.514 --> 01:38:51.434
I'm like, . Um, but I learned
that I'm not that damn important.

01:38:51.495 --> 01:38:56.085
Like, you know, we also mm-hmm  bloat our
calendars and work a lot with meetings

01:38:56.089 --> 01:38:57.615
that are also meant to feed our ego.

01:38:57.615 --> 01:39:02.474
Like previously, my whole sense of
worth at my job was like, how many

01:39:02.474 --> 01:39:04.214
calendar invites do I have in a day?

01:39:04.214 --> 01:39:06.224
Because if people are wanting
to request meetings with me,

01:39:06.224 --> 01:39:08.025
I must be producing something.

01:39:08.565 --> 01:39:10.905
And that taught me that
that's not the case.

01:39:10.905 --> 01:39:13.785
And like, it made me better
at asynchronous communication.

01:39:13.785 --> 01:39:16.925
Like, you know, that meeting that
I had posted, I could probably do

01:39:16.931 --> 01:39:18.644
that in an email or a Slack message.

01:39:18.644 --> 01:39:22.724
And I started adopting that more and
I saw, you know, calendar invites fall

01:39:22.724 --> 01:39:27.974
off my calendar and it was beautiful,
but it came at that pain of forced into

01:39:27.974 --> 01:39:31.245
it and being extremely nervous that
I was gonna be fired at any minute.

01:39:31.950 --> 01:39:32.400
Yeah.

01:39:32.430 --> 01:39:35.880
Travis Bader: And you're saying
that you realized that you just

01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:39.720
weren't as important as you, I guess,
thought you were still important

01:39:39.720 --> 01:39:43.770
enough for the business to keep you
employed and your productivity level

01:39:43.775 --> 01:39:49.830
increased, if I remember correctly,
you became better at your job.

01:39:50.550 --> 01:39:50.970
I don't know.

01:39:51.030 --> 01:39:52.080
There's a lot to be learned.

01:39:52.170 --> 01:39:53.490
Yeah, there's a lot to be learned there.

01:39:55.140 --> 01:39:55.620
Okay.

01:39:55.770 --> 01:39:58.920
Here's my question to you, which
kind of segues back into this new

01:39:58.920 --> 01:40:00.240
business that you're putting together?

01:40:01.110 --> 01:40:01.560
All righty.

01:40:01.620 --> 01:40:08.550
As a tech guy working in ai, working in
the tech industry, realizing that it's not

01:40:08.550 --> 01:40:13.440
all bad, it's not all good, it's kind of
how we use it and how we wanna, uh, uh,

01:40:13.500 --> 01:40:16.170
what we choose to direct our attention at.

01:40:17.010 --> 01:40:22.110
How can we use technology to help
strengthen people's relationship

01:40:22.115 --> 01:40:23.130
with the natural world?

01:40:23.970 --> 01:40:24.120
Oh

01:40:24.120 --> 01:40:25.500
Zach Hanson: man, this is a, a fun one.

01:40:25.500 --> 01:40:30.840
So one of the cool things that's come
about the book, you know, come about my.

01:40:31.930 --> 01:40:34.635
exposing what my life is
like on a professional

01:40:34.635 --> 01:40:36.345
networking site like LinkedIn.

01:40:36.655 --> 01:40:37.005
Mm.

01:40:37.010 --> 01:40:40.095
Is that I've made a lot of cool
connections of people who ride

01:40:40.095 --> 01:40:43.725
that line similar to me of like
technology and the outdoors.

01:40:44.115 --> 01:40:48.315
So I've been able to converse with
like, I've become buddies with one of

01:40:48.315 --> 01:40:49.755
the guys from Mountain Tough Fitness.

01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:53.025
So people who don't know what Mountain
Tough is, you know, it's an application.

01:40:53.025 --> 01:40:56.325
They do a lot of great workouts that
are geared towards back country hunting.

01:40:56.445 --> 01:40:57.135
It's amazing.

01:40:57.465 --> 01:40:59.265
Um, it got me ready for my elk hunts.

01:40:59.475 --> 01:41:04.065
That's an opportunity in the outdoor
space to implement technology.

01:41:04.305 --> 01:41:09.375
The guys that go wild in Kentucky,
it's a social media application all

01:41:09.380 --> 01:41:13.965
about hunting, outdoors, trapping,
hiking, um, another cool application.

01:41:13.965 --> 01:41:17.325
It's like Instagram for the
outdoor space, essentially.

01:41:17.365 --> 01:41:17.805
Mm-hmm.

01:41:17.935 --> 01:41:20.205
, um, you know, there's a lot.

01:41:21.514 --> 01:41:24.719
things, even from a data science
perspective, which is more MySpace, the,

01:41:24.929 --> 01:41:29.490
the C E O of Hunt score, uh, you know,
where you can use their application

01:41:29.490 --> 01:41:32.790
to start to figure out hunting units
that have like higher percentage,

01:41:33.030 --> 01:41:37.469
you know, opportunities, um, for
out-of-state hunters or in-state hunters.

01:41:37.474 --> 01:41:38.580
Ah, really cool.

01:41:39.179 --> 01:41:40.139
Yeah, it's awesome.

01:41:40.500 --> 01:41:44.670
Um, so there are these things that are
coming up and you know, for me, being a

01:41:44.670 --> 01:41:49.920
tech guy, having gone through some guided
hunts myself and saw the, uh, the gap

01:41:49.920 --> 01:41:55.170
in customer management, I've worked with
three buddies and we are launching the

01:41:55.170 --> 01:42:02.269
outfitter.guide, www.theoutfitter.guide,
uh, in February at the Western HUN Expo.

01:42:02.269 --> 01:42:03.660
So we'll have a booth down there.

01:42:03.660 --> 01:42:05.700
We somehow magically were
able to get into that.

01:42:05.700 --> 01:42:10.469
That was a lot of luck and stars aligning,
um, . But essentially it's gonna be a

01:42:10.469 --> 01:42:16.469
business or a B2 B2C company where we will
be selling our software to outfitters.

01:42:17.505 --> 01:42:20.715
Outfitters will sign up with
us and they can kind of, you

01:42:20.715 --> 01:42:25.255
know, onboard their hunters
seamlessly, let 'em sign contracts.

01:42:25.255 --> 01:42:27.615
We can take over the payments
digitally so you're not sending a

01:42:27.615 --> 01:42:29.415
check to some PO box in Arizona.

01:42:29.835 --> 01:42:29.925
Mm-hmm.

01:42:29.985 --> 01:42:34.095
And you know, from that time that you
sign up, then we as the outfitter guy,

01:42:34.095 --> 01:42:35.445
take over the customer management.

01:42:35.450 --> 01:42:38.475
So you're not gonna be dealing necessarily
directly with the outfitter unless

01:42:38.475 --> 01:42:42.465
you need to, but we're gonna be taking
that gap period from the time you sign

01:42:42.465 --> 01:42:45.915
up to the time you're in the field
preparing you, which means we'll be

01:42:45.915 --> 01:42:49.995
sending you notifications saying, Hey,
you know, John, you're in South Carolina

01:42:49.995 --> 01:42:53.805
at sea level, you're about to hunt
doll sheep in Alaska at 11,000 feet.

01:42:53.925 --> 01:42:55.515
Have you done your lunges?

01:42:55.665 --> 01:42:55.935
No.

01:42:55.935 --> 01:42:58.815
Well, here's a discount code or a
free year of Mountain tough fitness.

01:42:58.815 --> 01:42:59.445
Get to it.

01:42:59.775 --> 01:43:01.335
You know, have you zeroed your rifle?

01:43:01.515 --> 01:43:05.144
You know, well, you know, according
to your location there's four rifle

01:43:05.144 --> 01:43:08.595
ranges around you, or here's a
discount code for a long range course.

01:43:08.894 --> 01:43:12.625
You know, doing that along the
way so you're not questioning and

01:43:12.630 --> 01:43:15.675
when you're going on a hunt that
already has a low probability.

01:43:16.200 --> 01:43:19.290
chance of success, we're
gonna increase that.

01:43:19.440 --> 01:43:21.000
At least that's our hypothesis.

01:43:21.240 --> 01:43:23.849
So that way when you do get out
in the field, you're not worried

01:43:23.849 --> 01:43:24.960
about if you're gonna get fed.

01:43:24.960 --> 01:43:29.639
And if you need to pack more cliff
bars, you'll know that upfront easily.

01:43:29.910 --> 01:43:33.960
And you're gonna be most prepared and
you're gonna feel better about this

01:43:33.960 --> 01:43:37.799
large money investment you're making
along the way as well, which hopefully

01:43:37.799 --> 01:43:41.790
will give outfitters more repeat
customers, give them other opportunities

01:43:41.794 --> 01:43:45.570
to monetize as well so they can up and
build their own businesses in a more,

01:43:45.809 --> 01:43:47.490
you know, deliberate fashion as well.

01:43:47.820 --> 01:43:48.929
So that's it in a nutshell.

01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:52.110
But yeah, technology and outdoors,
there's a lot of opportunity here

01:43:52.110 --> 01:43:55.980
and a lot more younger folks like me
who have tech experience getting into

01:43:56.210 --> 01:44:00.030
the space, I imagine and expect to
see of some more really cool things.

01:44:00.030 --> 01:44:02.669
Were the two things, you
know, meld together in a way

01:44:02.669 --> 01:44:04.469
that's not too obtrusive.

01:44:05.549 --> 01:44:07.110
Travis Bader: Zach, you're one smart dude.

01:44:07.110 --> 01:44:07.799
I like that.

01:44:08.400 --> 01:44:12.435
Um, is there anything that, We've
been talking for a bit now, but is

01:44:12.435 --> 01:44:15.195
there anything that we haven't talked
about that you feel we should before

01:44:15.195 --> 01:44:16.335
we kind of wrap things up here?

01:44:17.295 --> 01:44:18.075
Zach Hanson: No, I don't think so.

01:44:18.075 --> 01:44:20.325
I think we've covered quite
a bit, which is awesome.

01:44:20.355 --> 01:44:23.655
Um, yeah, yeah, it, it
is been a blast, Travis.

01:44:23.655 --> 01:44:26.955
I've really enjoyed getting to chat and
talk, you know, a little bit more in depth

01:44:26.955 --> 01:44:32.385
about some of the, the underlying currents
of the book and or society or at large.

01:44:32.385 --> 01:44:34.455
So I hope a lot of people
take something away from it.

01:44:35.505 --> 01:44:38.025
Travis Bader: Zach, thank you very
much for being on the podcast.