All the Bs, All the Time

It's the question that women have been asking themselves their entire lives: What kind of bitch am I? In this episode of Juicy Bits, Jen and Jillian explore the nuances of being a bitch, whether it's a bad bitch, boss bitch, basic bitch, feminist bitch, or simply just a bitch. Because at the end of the day, none of us were put on this earth to make other people happy. Have a listen and share your thoughts with us at [e-mail].

What is Juicy Bits?

We created Juicy Bits because we wanted to continue the conversations that we start out on the trail and on the chair lift. Hosted by our CEO Jen Gurecki and Ambassador Jillian Raymond, they talk candidly about everything from dude soup, to sex, to politics, to equity in the outdoors. We occasionally (read: frequently) drop F-bombs, interview some of the most interesting people in the outdoors and beyond, and say things that many of us think but don’t feel comfortable saying out loud. If you are easily offended or looking for something that is G Rated, this is not the podcast for you. But if you love truth-telling and irreverence, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little bit. 

Hello and welcome. I'm Jillian Raymond, the cocreator of Juicy Bits and a Coalition Snow ambassador, and I'm Jen Guerrecki, your co host and the CEO of Coalition Snow. For those of you who are new get rated to laugh, cry, and maybe peer pants, a little Juicy Bits is about taking the conversations that we start on the chairlift and at the trailhead and bringing them to you to explore alternative narratives that challenge the status quo about what it means to be a modern woman in the outdoors. Grab your helmet because sometimes it's a bumpy ride. Fyi friends, this podcast is for mature audiences. So you've been warned. Let's get to work and juice the patriarchy. My mother had this classic, like look of death. That when she used to give it to me. Or I watched her give it to someone in person. I would be horrified. And Jen, I have it. It scares Brennan, like, literally afraid when it comes to how is it? I don't even know how to make the face. It's got to be. And I know we're just diving right in. So there's bad bitch, boss bitch, basic bitch, feminist bitch, a bitch. Are you just a bitch or is it other?

I go in between, like, bad bitch, boss bitch and feminist bitch? I feel like that. Do you think we should tell people what we're talking about? Absolutely. Because as I'm also looking at this, I realized that my bad bitch, silent but deadly, is not so much the style. It's the look like it literally is the look. It's the look. All right, let's tell everyone,

Okay. I should not be the CEO of anything. I just want to start with that because I lead our team. We have this little marketing meeting, like anybody who wants to be a part of coming up with stuff. And about a month ago at Coalition Snow, we came up with this idea of what kind of bitch are you? We thought that'd be really funny to make a quiz. What kind of bitch are you? So we came up with all these different things. We put this clever little quiz on the website. And really, it's like a way to help us engage with people. But then we built it out and put it on Instagram. And so if you were to go to our Instagram and go to Coalition Snow, go back to September 15, you'll see this post, find your inner bitch. And we as a team. We kind of came up with these different bitches, bad bitch, boss bitch, basic bitch, feminist bitch, a bitch or other. We thought this was a good idea to put on Instagram and talk about. And it actually is.

Yeah, we were just today just going to talk about what kind of bitches we are because I decided a long time ago that being a bitch was not a bad thing and that I was not put on this planet to make other people happy. I was not put on this planet to be nice to people. We've had conversations here before about the difference between being kind and being nice. I'm not nice and I don't really see any reason to be nice. I'm 100% a bitch and I kind of really own it and love it and don't have a problem with it and wanted to talk about that with you today about being bitches and how we're okay. There's no problem. Yeah. I would love to put it in that category of the words that you would maybe try to reclaim or reframe that are used in a negative way against you when you might have those stereotypical or mainstream characteristics of a bitch, it kind of goes back to something else we've talked about of people fearing disliking and being uncomfortable around vocal and strong women. And what does it mean to be that bitch unapologetically? And so that's what I loved about it. I remember when I took the quiz and I was thinking the questions had me kind of laughing, had me thinking of different moments in my life where I'm like, oh, I was 100% throwing hands, like, physically fighting. This will go back to, like, 8th grade in the mall. And why that was thankfully, something not. I don't engage in throwing hands more than metaphoric of throwing hands. And then I like the signature smile of not smiling. So this is from the bad bitch, because I think it just sends, like, the perfect message, but it will also it's hard right now with mask. So I feel like I've learned how to do it with my eyes in a way and eyebrows, eyebrows. Yeah. This non-verbal way of letting people know, like, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I was dealing in very stereotypical, misogynist places, right? I'm in car dealerships. I'm with service, work, service, auto part world tire world where the female is just as they're kind of typing in the things and taking the phone calls and all the dudes are out doing the things. And I'm like, don't treat me in this way that I'm not coming in with some knowledge about what's going on, and you're going to get the full range of the bitch if you're not treating me with the respect I deserve coming in, patroning your business like I left, and I'm like, 1000 plus dollars later, and I feel like I was treated like shit like, no, thank you. That was bad thing. You would think that at this point, this conversation around the conversation around women in particular, not having to show up and please everybody and that we need to really be able to advocate for ourselves and it's okay to say no and it's okay to state your demands and it's okay to communicate and to communicate in the way that is comfortable for you. You would think that by the year 2021 that we would have made a little bit more progress, but it's interesting because I feel like there's definitely groups of people who embrace strong women, but even that is bullshit. So if you're a bitch, you're strong. Well, what if see, here I am even falling into it. Why is bitchiness equated to being strong when you can be strong in so many different ways? But also being a bitch also doesn't necessarily make you strong. But we put those two things together, right? Like society tells us that strong women the way that we exist in the world is as bitches. I definitely do. I'm just saying that I know not all women fall within that category that we're a little bit more complex than that. I know a number of very strong women who I actually don't think are bitches at all. They're actually some of the loveliest human beings. You're definitely a bitch, Jillian, but that's why we get along so well. Yes. And I wouldn't expect anything less from you on any given day. And I will say from the feedback and the participation, we got Coalition Snow. One of the things I really loved was comments related to being any number of these bitches in any given day, and sometimes within a given day ended within one scenario. So I think this kind of comes down to maybe having just that style, the way of talking, the way of being really expressive, the eyebrows, the smile, the body language, and what that can kind of do to help in communication. And then I also think that to your point, there could be times where you don't touch on any of these just because it doesn't demand it. And I like your kind of point there of us being much more complex than just being able to be like bitch or not and then questioning the relationship between strong and bitch, because sometimes and I would love to meet these humans and figure out how they do it. Imagine surrounding yourself with people so often that you don't necessarily even need to come to this point of conflict or this point of style and fierceness, because you just surrounded yourself with people that the communication is so clear, the mission is so clear, the work is so clear that the style is so clear, it's effortless. And I think that's where some of the loveliest humans for me, I don't know if they're just able to float through this world like that. Like, how the fuck do they do it? Because they're strong women, they're intelligent women, they're smart. But I've never really seen that bitch come out. Well, maybe it does, but it doesn't around us, because that's the whole thing of what you were just saying. I feel like the reason bitchy, I'm a bitch. I embrace the word like I said, I have no problem with it. It's a response. It's a response to the way that people treat me. And I just know I don't allow those things. It might not even just be people. It might just be, like, the way that this world treats us and being really outspoken about that. Can you imagine a world in which we didn't feel like we needed to bring any of this, like, we didn't need to be boss bitch or bad bitch? And I know that there's definitely people listening right now who are, like, there's different styles of leadership and not everybody. And you can show up. I know, I recognize that. But my point is it's these outside stressors that really have instigated. I would say, like, defense mechanism that's like, you're like, kind of born into it, right? It's not like you just grow up learning that this is a sort of survival strategy. And I feel fortunate for myself. I feel like physically I've been relatively. I mean, I did have that one time I thought that he was the restraining order time, but in general, I have felt relatively safe physically, but emotionally, I feel like I've just been so discounted for so long in so many different ways and that you do. I probably wasn't a bitch. When I was like, nine, I thought I was like, I should ask my mom, she'd probably be like, no, you totally were. I when you were nine in the nine year old way that you can be a bitch because I'll tell you, I've got a three and a half. He is totally a little bitch, and I love it. Watch her little kid at the playground telling her, you need to slow down. You're too fast for me. And I was like, you talk to her like that. And I looked at Mike. I said, Listen, Mike, you turn around. A kid tells you that you need to slow down because they're trying to chase you run faster. You do not need to slow down because that's bullshit. I mean, granted, it's like different types of play, but not to break, not to knock her down a peg. So I'm sure in some way, in your nine year old world, I know, sure as fuck I was 13, but I think it's a sense of armor, a sense of defense mechanism, because you and I can also look at it through the lens of what we've done. As a researcher, I think of the work I've done in schools, and part of it probably had to come out that we were not called on as often in certain classes based on our gender. We were not listened to in certain ways. Even if we went to good public schools or had positive experiences with school, there's a lot of entrenched sexism and misogyny and work that goes on in the education system that sort of forces you to either just fall in line and be like, the good teacher, pleaser. Well, I'll do what I'm told because I'm good at school, or you kind of have to again put on that defense and that sense of armor to be seen and be heard and feel like your experience is validated. And it's not just in the shadow of the other things that are going on. Yeah, well, I have to tell you. So today, even just this morning, I was a boss bitch this morning deals with conflicts with meditation, signature smiles, a shit eating grin. Boss style is skillful and supportive. So I have a Google alert set up for, like, anytime someone mentions Coalition Snow, I get an alert in my email. And so Coalition got mentioned on this Reddit thread, and this lovely human was like, oh, I'm really interested in trying out Coalition, but I haven't seen any reviews on really big sites about them. Has anyone heard about them? And you haven't seen reviews on big sites about us because that's all pay to play, and we're not spending $10,000 to get a review. Well, I didn't need to jump on to tell her that. And people were responding and had really great things to say. Except for there was one dude, there had to be one guy who chimed in and was like, I don't know if I would trust an indie brand. You never know. It's really expensive to buy all the machinery to build skis, and they're just in their garage. And it goes on this whole long rant about how you can't trust indie ski companies because buying the machinery to press skis is so expensive. And so you probably don't have the money to buy the good stuff. And you don't have the experience like the big brands do with all their engineers. And so I'm reading this this morning at like, 630. Definitely not enough caffeine. Certainly sober, which is like, part of the problem, too. And I'm like, he doesn't know anything about our business. And again, to be completely discounted. And I was like, oh, certainly there are indie brands who are like that. Except for when I started Coalition, I wanted to be able to grow and not face these challenges. So we work with an established, family owned manufacturer who's been building skis for more than 60 years. That's how we started year one. Don't discount my collective ability to build incredible skis just because you have an idea of what an indie ski company is, which is Bros in a garage. What if we're good at business? What if I built this business around? I'm going to make sure in year one, we don't have warranty issues, defects. We're going to have really exceptional skis by ensuring that I bring the right partners together and create the right team. That's actually how I started Coalition Snow in year one. So I explained this in the actually nicest possible way. I knew how on Reddit, you don't really have an understanding of what our indie ski company is like. And so I had to drop some of our, you know, we have distribution and Evo and backcountry and Rei and if there's a problem with our skis, we certainly wouldn't be carried there. But I was really frustrated because you work so hard to build a brand and you show up in the world, we create exceptional goods. People love our skis and boards. It's an incredibly high quality product. And to have some guys spout off on Reddit about how indie brands are and people listen to him because he's a guy. Why wouldn't you just inherently believe that we make something good? Why would you inherently believe that we make something bad? And that brought out my boss bitch at 630 this morning, and I haven't logged back in to see if anyone responded. And I did. I feel like I did handle it in the most meditative way that I could. But it's frustrating to be doing something for nine years and then have some random guy just completely discount you on the interwebs when they haven't even taken the time to learn anything about you. And that's it. Right. So now me going and responding. I had to boss bitch this. He didn't even need to actually that his comment wasn't even necessary. Right? Well, that's where the boss pitch of being skillful and supportive, because you can have this way where you're almost through. That not that you need to do, but it's like an uplift to you, yourself and the coalition. And what so you're like, I'll take that as a fucking challenge. Let me tell you about why. Like you said the words we wanted to grow. This is what our indie brand would look like. This is how we're smart. This is exceptional product. And I feel like that kind of falls into not only in skillful and supportive, but it's like an absolute dire belief at the core in what you're doing. And so fuck this guy. So this is also basic bitch. And you'll know, when you see anyone who would read that be like, oh, you should be the CEO of a company. Back to your earlier point. You know exactly what you're doing, Dolphins fierce. But I do love that you pull an a bitch here because you're pretending to give a fuck that this user even matters. But like you said, it's right. They'll post that. And without even people thinking it's like, oh, they must know where they get the information from their balls. It's just such a tough thing, especially in the ski industry, right? Because you'll assume it's the things we've talked about before and going into a shop and being treated differently when you're looking for mountain bikes or climbing shoes and how you'll be perceived and you potentially know more than the person who's trying to sell them to you. But that whole gender inequity and just that initial on site judgment that's so toxic. And I think that's where the sense of just the bitch has to come out because you want to not be knocked down the pegs when you're standing tall, right? You're there and you're showing up. I mean, bitch is really such a benign word. What do you think about the word cunt? How do you feel about cut? What do you love about it? I think what I love or part of what I love about is the reaction you get from other people when it's used.

I also like, profanity a lot. I like using it. I think there's value in it in conversation in our society. I guess what I would tell you, I don't like it is if it's used in a way that would be derogatory. And I've actually had to do this with talk about needing to like, I don't even know what boss bitch, this is teacher bitch. I've literally had to unpack the word pussy and cunt with students as young as, like, 8th grade in terms of them calling other students pussy and cunt in a derogatory way. And me, literally. Yes. This is where I went to be like, you think pussy is a bad thing, and then the kids are all like, and I'm like, Well, think about it. Let's put this in context to young male students. And here I am being like, Am I literally having this conversation with an adolescent boy who could literally be like, because I'm like, do you see how when you say that you make it something bad when it's actually something good that you potentially want again, this is why I'm getting tired every other week. Sorry, not sorry. I'm sure audiences only I don't like it in any way where it's used, but I do like profanity. I love words that celebrate the vagina. Yeah. For me, it really depends on who's using it. I know quite a number of people from the UK and the majority of them are men, and they'll use the word. They just use the word cunt, like, it's just this, like, dude, bro. And I don't particularly care for that because I think that they sort of justify their use of it like, oh, it's not gendered. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. It is. I don't really care for the word when humans without cunts use it unless they would be using it in a really powerful, beautiful, complementary way. Like, the fact that when it's used as a pejorative, I just really can't get behind that. But I don't feel this like, visceral. I don't have a visceral response to the word like I do with other pejoratives. But I feel like if the word is used by people who have cons and it's also used sexually and a like, positive sexual nature, I really like the word there. We use the word country at Coalition, and again, I don't know if I should be the CEO because that is on the website and in our emails, I use it all the time. If we switched roles for a day and I stepped into CEO boss bitch and you stepped into educator teacher bitch. That would be pretty funny. I think it would like, Haha, funny not. We should really do it funny. I used to be educators back in the day, right after I got my master's degree. I was teaching at the community. I was teaching at community colleges. I co taught a class at NYU. I did my student teaching in a high school class. I have done that. I 100% know you're a million times better than me. I know just from knowing you, I don't even know. I appreciate what I learned from that experience of thinking that perhaps I would be a public school secondary education teacher. I appreciated my time in higher Ed and being able to work with those students. I should not be in a classroom. I think I have a lot to say. And I think there are certain people who can learn from me, but I don't think it's in a traditional classroom, but I think you do really well in a classroom. So I'm going to give you that. I think as being CEO,

Actually, I think there's like, certain things you'd be like, oh, this is fun. And then, like, the minutia, you'd be like, what the fuck? It's like grading papers. You know what I feel like? I do a lot of time. I feel like I grade papers all day long. Right? So, like this idea of being like, CEO of Coalition Snow. I grade papers. And then occasionally I get to do something fun, if that's any sort of metaphor for you. So one that we could maybe add thinking of fun, too. And the colder Thames. And we've got some precipit in the forecast here. I kind of wonder what skier or rider bitch looks like, because I feel like there's a part of me that will come out. And this is not necessarily in the back country. It's much more of, like a kind of a peaceful and meditative spot. But I've had my moments of maybe not being my best self, and I work on that in terms of tolerance for people who can I say it that snow shoe in the skin track. But again, working on myself. But I kind of feel like I have a little bit of a skier bitch when I'm at the resorts and I'm kind of wondering, I'm a 100% bitch at the lift line. Okay. Last season and lift line, it was mega. Why the fuck are you so close to me? Why? Okay, number one in general, normal life. Why are you so close to me? Do you have any concept of personal space? I know that in a lot of countries, like, culturally, personal space is a very different thing. Except for I'm skiing in the United States. So we're all like, no, you're just actually a bunch of Bros chomping at the fucking bit because you want to get out and ski powder and you can't control yourselves. And so you're literally on top of me. So number one, I want you off of me. Number two, it's COVID I got in a guy's face in the lift line because he would not get out of it. And he challenged me, and I moved closer to him. Do you remember that time at SAA where I grabbed that guy and the whole thing happened? Remember? I don't really want to remember. Were you there? Oh, no, Jen, I won't say her full name. This guy challenged me in a really bad way, and I had to go up and was like, I'm going to get closer to you and challenge you now. So I had to do that to this guy in the lift line because he was like, three inches away from me, like, right up next to me. And then when I asked him to back up, he lunged at me even more. And then I was like, oh, no. So that was not the best. That was not a high point in my life, but I definitely lift line with people who refuse to give you space are skiing on top and not accidentally on top. That happens. Accidents happen, but legitimately, not carrying or like, pushing because they want to get on the list because it's a powder day that needs to stop. People don't listen, like, to your point. This was not a chomping at the bit powder day. It was kind of like, go out early, ski, some groomers, plenty of space. And someone wanted to ride up. And I was like, with me and I was like, I'd prefer to ride a loan, but you could go ahead. So I even was like, go ahead if you're kind of in that rush and they didn't like my answer, they were like, I've already had COVID and I'm wearing a mask. Why can't I stay with you? And I was like, That's not the fucking point. You asked me. I gave you my answer, like, go take the fucking answer. And what did I do? I just kind of backed away and was like, I want this person away. And that's what I think I get kind of irritated, especially in a bit of the communication. There's not a sense of listening. It's like you just asked me. I gave you a totally polite answer, and then you're going to be a fucking Dick, like, no, yes. I wonder. I do love resort skiing because I am often challenged by the time for backcountry skiing. And then physically, it can be hard for me, just in general, like, arthritis. And then just I don't do it a lot. So it's like a heavier lift for me to do it. I really like, going out with you a lot. We have a lot of fun when we go out. So I do appreciate the accessibility of resorts, and I think that's important, but I just wish people would chill the fuck out and lift one. This is one reason why there are certain resorts I won't ski at because the energy is so intense that I know it'll bring out the worst in me. So I stay away from those places and I try to go to places where it's way more chill because otherwise I will be so triggered that it'll ruin my experience. And I just won't take shit. I'm not one of those people to back down. It's not good big bitch in lift line, but I could go under the other too well, I think for our listeners, if they have not seen this, I think they need to go take the quiz and I do really appreciate the creative other ones. So kind of finish filling in the blank with as this in the bitch club. How you deal with conflict. The signature smile and the boss style is. And so that's a little gift from us to you so you can figure out your bitch and keep being the bitch. And it resonated with me again that I think I can be any level of those, sometimes in any given conversation in any given day. And how would I say that iteration of me I fully embrace. Love it, love it all right here's to be in the pool. Biggest fucking bees. We can be. Yeah.